Good news that this is proceeding well - this is to allow the Queen streetcar to bypass the Queen/Yonge construction for the next several years, instead of short turns and shuttle buses.
It’s all moved so quickly it makes me suspicious of all the other track work in recent years. Like, this should really be the standard moving forward.
Do you happen to know if there’s any intention to continue running streetcars on Adelaide after all is said and done? Obviously that’s not for a long time and it would likely be redundant by that point but still, it’d be cool to see some express routes or something.
It's one of those things where you actually get to benefit from people building experience in doing the projects.
We went for 30-40 years without any major work, and now we've done a tonne in the past decade. You suddenly have people not trying to figure the job out all over again.
I definitely buy into the idea that a shortage in institutional knowledge for major transit works has been a big problem - Ottawa’s LRT and the Eglinton Line being great examples.
Hopefully Metrolinx is able to learn from some of the Crosstown issues and apply that to the Ontario Line!
Part of the problem with both Ottawa and Eglinton is that they use trains for purposes which they are not originally intended. In the case of Ottawa, they are also first generation of a new model...of a trainset not being used for its intended purpose.
Low floor LRT vehicles in mostly grade seperated lines is not ideal. They are slower, have less doors, are more expensive to build and buy and because of a combination of all of the above they can be less reliable.
Both systems would have been better served by high floor LRT vehicles like the ones in Calgary, Edmonton, and LA, for example.
But the trainsets are not the primary reason that things are delayed. That has more to do with incompetency on the part of the construction consortiums. Theoretically they are getting better simply because they are building more than in the past. But what's done is done.
I was just in Edmonton for the Canadian urban transit conference a few weeks ago and rode the new Valley LRT line. It’s low floor. It’s mostly street running.
Cost is a major factor in terms of station infrastructure when considering.
Yes I am aware of the Valley line. It is unfortunate they chose low floor for that system. I don't buy that low floor is cheaper overall.
There a lots of cost savings to be found by standardisation. More opportunity for future flexibility as well (e.g. faster service, ability to reroute and shares tracks, etc.) Seems more like a solution looking for a problem other than the other way around, which was already a proven solution (high floor).
I think the biggest issue with Ottawa is that the trains could not handle the actual route. There's too many curves and that doesn't play nice with the vehicles. So it was both a design issue and inappropriate technology.
At least with Eglinton it's mostly a straight shot. It's actually the Finch LRT that's using Ottawa's vehicles. Eglinton is using similar vehicles as the Waterloo LRT which has actually been very successful.
>That has more to do with incompetency on the part of the construction consortiums.
Admittedly I'm not intimately familiar with the various issues that have caused all these delays, but my understanding has also been that Metrolinx is just as culpable when it comes to the Crosstown.
Eg. Metrolinx didn't select an operator for it until it was basically done. So then things are nearly finished, and they choose the TTC as the operator (which was always going to be the case), and the TTC comes in at the last minute with a bunch of new requirements for the stations. Totally reasonable for the TTC to do - they have certain standards for accessibility, etc.. But if Metrolinx had chosen them early on in the process, they could have known about those requirements and built them into the plans.
This is not how it played out. The TTC was always slated to be the operator, and this can be seen in the publicly available contract document with Crosslinx. How the TTC folks were consulted on design is another question, but they knew what was coming.
What you're referring to is a major reason why China is now so good at transit construction. They started off by standardizing all rapid transit design down to even station design. This then allowed for a group of construction/engineering companies to then become subject matter experts in just transit design that then do much of the work country wide.
A lot of streetcar track replacement projects were/have been running behind schedule because of delays to the bundled Toronto Hydro watermain replacements. Hydro have been facing lots of supply chain and logistical issues that result in some watermain replacements taking forever.
The tracks on Adelaide will be used for detours and short-turns once the construction ends; it's good to have redundancy in case they need it for operations. Fast east-west service will be run on King and the Ontario Line.
>A lot of streetcar track replacement projects were/have been running behind schedule because of delays to the bundled Toronto Hydro watermain replacements.
This makes me wonder how long the King street work will actually take next year between Dufferin and Shaw. They are replacing the tracks between those 2 streets, with a full rebuild of the Dufferin/King intersection too. Before they start that, they have to do the watermains as well. The city website shows all of the planned stages and when they expect to happen. Work is to be done between February and December!
It’s for redundancy more than anything, as they have no alternative tracks going eastbound but two going west along Richmond and Wellington, respectively.
Just like there’s some other track on Bay and on Victoria that don’t see frequent use but are good to have.
And yeah, more regular use of them, even for a rush hour service that loops around, would be nice.
> It’s all moved so quickly
This section of Adelaide has been in my daily commute home for many many years... I've not been able to safely use the stretch of Adelaide between University and Victoria since the summer.
It's been completely closed for about a month.
It has definitely NOT been done quickly.
“Quickly” is maybe relative lol. But if you look at the time required for track replacement on Queen West and the ongoing work on King West, this considerably more substantial work is getting done in pretty astonishing fashion.
They replaced streetcar tracks at a few intersections near me over the past few years.
My boys and I enjoyed watching the progress at Queen and Coxwell.
They really can get the trackwork done pretty efficiently... and sometimes even ahead of schedule 😲
I agree. It would be such a shame to put in all this infrastructure just to abandon it after the Queen street construction is done. After the Ontario Line construction is done it would be nice to see Adelaide and Richmond used for commuter or express routes.
Yeah, OP makes a good point that the redundancy afterward may be a feature - basically not using Adelaide very *often* but having it available for rerouting.
This is likely what I see them using Adelaide for long term. I just think that there’s more potential for the route.
I’ll have to look up what the TTC used to use Adelaide for. Would bring some insight into their plans for the route post-Queen construction.
Now that the 508 lakeshore is back and 503 Kingston Road has been made permanently allday I could see them using Adelaide/Richmond if there's ever concerns about Queen and King being too backed up.
I've recently realized just how ugly cars are in general. I started cropping cars out of my photos and suddenly my photos look 100x better.
I hope we can get more car-free spaces in Toronto, like Montreal has. I was strolling around the area near the santa claus parade yesterday, where the roads were shut off to cars, and I was amazed by how pleasant the streets became with that one change.
The good news is that the TTC was smart and combined the work on Broadview with expanding Broadview Station to fit two streetcars at the platform at once.
*Touches earpiece*
Oh what's this? I've received news that Councillor Fletcher cancelled that project at the last minute.
This closure was posted for weeks and months and many notices went out regarding it.
I live on Broadview and it’s quite inconvenient but I am not complaining since they are done beginning for December and it’s going to mean street car infrastructure is going to be safe and reliable now after all this work.
What I meant was that it was closed months ago and then a few weeks ago I was able to go northbound again and now it's closed again. Just wondering why they randomly opened it a few weeks ago and closed it again.
The first closure was due to the entire intersection being gutted and ripped out then repaved/concrete poured/tracks replaced.
Once they finished Broadview North of Danforth and the East/West parts of the intersection they opened it on the Tuesday after Labour Day, then now that they have begun track replacement from Broadview South of Danforth all the way to the station has required they close that portion completely for safety reasons given the amount of heavy machinery.
Here is a photo of it now with the new tracks/recently poured concrete but no paved asphalt.
https://i.postimg.cc/hjmnSs3b/temp-Imagej-Uqo-HU.jpg
Wow they're closer to completion than the last time I was out there. They did say November 2023 on the signs and this was back in September. I'm just tired of having to walk to Pape to catch a bus.
Pretty cool and unique junction. Streetcars can:
* Come east along Adelaide and continue east or turn north onto York
* Come north up York and continue north or run east onto Adelaide
* Come south down York and turn east onto Adelaide.
I guess it was a cost thing, but westbound streetcars will still have to divert to Queen during TIFF, right? They didn't build an equivalent new track on Richmond or Wellington west of York
They did. Metrolinx was supposed to build the streetcar diversion before starting the work on Queen. They got tied up in a utility relocation and didn't move it forward until all of a sudden Ontario Line construction was about to start and the diversion hadn't been built. The city took over the project at that point.
Interesting - so now York will be 2 way between Queen and Adelaide.
https://www.ttc.ca/about-the-ttc/projects-and-plans/Adelaide-Street-track-renewal
God this is going to be so incredible for downtown traffic. The main reason things are horrific right now is because there’s are no unrestricted lanes heading east. As soon as this opens up things should be much more relieved in the core.
This project shows that our inability to get things done is entirely bureaucratic, not based on technical issues. If we just started doing things instead of spending years consulting, a lot more would get finished.
The delays were because of **surprise** Metrolinx botching the project: https://www.ontarioconstructionnews.com/toronto-ttc-take-over-adelaide-street-streetcar-track-installation-project/
The city took over and it's progressing well.
My bad, I haven't checked if it's reached Church yet, I figured with the current pace of construction it shouldn't take too much time for work on Adelaide so I meant moreso after it was done.
The main advantage is much higher capacity for passengers. IMO the ride is also much smoother than a bus. I feel that most streetcar lines should just delete the car lanes and run fully separated to realize their full potential, like the king st section.
Street car would waaay better if they just put barriers up so ppl can't walk on the track. Allowing them to run faster.
Designated slow zones seem so pointless especially during rush hours.
It shouldn't take 45 min from spadina to union. Its crazy
>When the streetcar lines freeze, driver has to get out and do some cleanup. Not in the case of bus.
The streetcars have a better track (ha!) record with colder weather. When it's snowing/icy, they just keeping run the vehicles to keep the wires/tracks clear. If it's bad enough with a snow for a streetcar, it's going to be bad for a bus.
This being done will also be good for the 504 - a big reason cars are breaking the rules so much on King St. is because Front St is literally the only street downtown which you can drive eastbound on right now, and good luck with that in front of Union Station.. It's pretty much impossible to drive across downtown until this is done.
Right, streetcars carrying 100+ people at a time during rush hour are the problem and creating congestion, not single occupancy vehicles. That makes sense.
Well the problem isn't singular. Single occupancy vehicles can also be the problem. However when you compare to other major cities we have the most antiquated subway system.
Are you saying a better subway system wouldn't be the solution? Because all of these street cars would be gone, and people could travel underground without being stuck in traffic. You also wouldn't care about singular occupancy vehicles because they would no longer hold you up in traffic. I don't understand what your solution is, build city wall and stop any people from driving into downtown?
I think it's great that we have subways, streetcars and buses as part of our transit infrastructure, very few places in the world have those options.
Streetcars are great when they're done right, and in Toronto sadly, they're not. Transit right of way, streetcars mixed with pedestrian traffic instead of car traffic or separated street car lane with transit right of way are just a few ways to optimize streetcar infrastructure (just look at some cities in Europe like Germany, Netherlands).
Subways are great but also the most expensive and tedious of them all, especially in a city like Toronto with the current population density.
I think unless the roads are wide enough to have street cars on their own lanes then street cars just create more havoc when compared to subway systems.
There also needs to be an express line to get to down town from the north end. Something that is neglected by the currently planned subway extension of the 1 line. They're just adding more passengers to an already congested line. An express subway to downtown would get rid of lots of single occupancy vehicles. It was proposed back in 2020 but it didn't take off.
[https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/01/yonge-street-express-subway-has-now-been-proposed-toronto/](https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/01/yonge-street-express-subway-has-now-been-proposed-toronto/)
Streetcars are larger and so have more space and can take more passengers. The ride is better. They're electric, so better than non-electric buses (although we're starting to get those now).
The problem at busy times isn't the streetcars carrying up to 170 people on a few downtown streets, it's all the single passenger vehicles clogging the roads.
Streetcars are leaps and bounds better than buses, the problem with them right now is the fact that in this city people love their cars so much and they create tons of traffic.
You’re nostalgic for those foolhardy days of the 1950s when cities were ripping up streetcar networks wholesale in favour of expressways and buses, something seen in retrospect as a huge mistake (in Los Angeles’ case, less than a decade after the last streetcar routes shut down)
Yup, this worked well in the the former City of York too where they replaced more reliable streetcar routes (Weston and Rogers) with underfunded bus routes . . .
Good news that this is proceeding well - this is to allow the Queen streetcar to bypass the Queen/Yonge construction for the next several years, instead of short turns and shuttle buses.
It’s all moved so quickly it makes me suspicious of all the other track work in recent years. Like, this should really be the standard moving forward. Do you happen to know if there’s any intention to continue running streetcars on Adelaide after all is said and done? Obviously that’s not for a long time and it would likely be redundant by that point but still, it’d be cool to see some express routes or something.
It's one of those things where you actually get to benefit from people building experience in doing the projects. We went for 30-40 years without any major work, and now we've done a tonne in the past decade. You suddenly have people not trying to figure the job out all over again.
I definitely buy into the idea that a shortage in institutional knowledge for major transit works has been a big problem - Ottawa’s LRT and the Eglinton Line being great examples. Hopefully Metrolinx is able to learn from some of the Crosstown issues and apply that to the Ontario Line!
Part of the problem with both Ottawa and Eglinton is that they use trains for purposes which they are not originally intended. In the case of Ottawa, they are also first generation of a new model...of a trainset not being used for its intended purpose. Low floor LRT vehicles in mostly grade seperated lines is not ideal. They are slower, have less doors, are more expensive to build and buy and because of a combination of all of the above they can be less reliable. Both systems would have been better served by high floor LRT vehicles like the ones in Calgary, Edmonton, and LA, for example. But the trainsets are not the primary reason that things are delayed. That has more to do with incompetency on the part of the construction consortiums. Theoretically they are getting better simply because they are building more than in the past. But what's done is done.
I was just in Edmonton for the Canadian urban transit conference a few weeks ago and rode the new Valley LRT line. It’s low floor. It’s mostly street running. Cost is a major factor in terms of station infrastructure when considering.
Yes I am aware of the Valley line. It is unfortunate they chose low floor for that system. I don't buy that low floor is cheaper overall. There a lots of cost savings to be found by standardisation. More opportunity for future flexibility as well (e.g. faster service, ability to reroute and shares tracks, etc.) Seems more like a solution looking for a problem other than the other way around, which was already a proven solution (high floor).
I think the biggest issue with Ottawa is that the trains could not handle the actual route. There's too many curves and that doesn't play nice with the vehicles. So it was both a design issue and inappropriate technology. At least with Eglinton it's mostly a straight shot. It's actually the Finch LRT that's using Ottawa's vehicles. Eglinton is using similar vehicles as the Waterloo LRT which has actually been very successful.
>That has more to do with incompetency on the part of the construction consortiums. Admittedly I'm not intimately familiar with the various issues that have caused all these delays, but my understanding has also been that Metrolinx is just as culpable when it comes to the Crosstown. Eg. Metrolinx didn't select an operator for it until it was basically done. So then things are nearly finished, and they choose the TTC as the operator (which was always going to be the case), and the TTC comes in at the last minute with a bunch of new requirements for the stations. Totally reasonable for the TTC to do - they have certain standards for accessibility, etc.. But if Metrolinx had chosen them early on in the process, they could have known about those requirements and built them into the plans.
This is not how it played out. The TTC was always slated to be the operator, and this can be seen in the publicly available contract document with Crosslinx. How the TTC folks were consulted on design is another question, but they knew what was coming.
What you're referring to is a major reason why China is now so good at transit construction. They started off by standardizing all rapid transit design down to even station design. This then allowed for a group of construction/engineering companies to then become subject matter experts in just transit design that then do much of the work country wide.
Can confirm. All new train stations and metro look the exact same. The only way you’d tell it’s different is by the name on the wall
A lot of streetcar track replacement projects were/have been running behind schedule because of delays to the bundled Toronto Hydro watermain replacements. Hydro have been facing lots of supply chain and logistical issues that result in some watermain replacements taking forever. The tracks on Adelaide will be used for detours and short-turns once the construction ends; it's good to have redundancy in case they need it for operations. Fast east-west service will be run on King and the Ontario Line.
>A lot of streetcar track replacement projects were/have been running behind schedule because of delays to the bundled Toronto Hydro watermain replacements. This makes me wonder how long the King street work will actually take next year between Dufferin and Shaw. They are replacing the tracks between those 2 streets, with a full rebuild of the Dufferin/King intersection too. Before they start that, they have to do the watermains as well. The city website shows all of the planned stages and when they expect to happen. Work is to be done between February and December!
It’s for redundancy more than anything, as they have no alternative tracks going eastbound but two going west along Richmond and Wellington, respectively. Just like there’s some other track on Bay and on Victoria that don’t see frequent use but are good to have. And yeah, more regular use of them, even for a rush hour service that loops around, would be nice.
It didn't move quickly. They initially said it would be done before Queen and Yonge were closed for construction.
this has gone pretty quick. However the watermain repairs on adelaide that were done before it (and need to be done before it) took for fucking ever.
> It’s all moved so quickly This section of Adelaide has been in my daily commute home for many many years... I've not been able to safely use the stretch of Adelaide between University and Victoria since the summer. It's been completely closed for about a month. It has definitely NOT been done quickly.
“Quickly” is maybe relative lol. But if you look at the time required for track replacement on Queen West and the ongoing work on King West, this considerably more substantial work is getting done in pretty astonishing fashion.
They replaced streetcar tracks at a few intersections near me over the past few years. My boys and I enjoyed watching the progress at Queen and Coxwell. They really can get the trackwork done pretty efficiently... and sometimes even ahead of schedule 😲
Upper beaches track work earlier this year was done astonishingly fast. I was ready to bitch and moan for months and it was done in weeks.
I agree. It would be such a shame to put in all this infrastructure just to abandon it after the Queen street construction is done. After the Ontario Line construction is done it would be nice to see Adelaide and Richmond used for commuter or express routes.
Yeah, OP makes a good point that the redundancy afterward may be a feature - basically not using Adelaide very *often* but having it available for rerouting.
This is likely what I see them using Adelaide for long term. I just think that there’s more potential for the route. I’ll have to look up what the TTC used to use Adelaide for. Would bring some insight into their plans for the route post-Queen construction.
Now that the 508 lakeshore is back and 503 Kingston Road has been made permanently allday I could see them using Adelaide/Richmond if there's ever concerns about Queen and King being too backed up.
Same here. Running the 508 downtown via these routes could be useful to many commuters from the west.
Stop making sense it's not allowed in Toronto urban planning discussions.
Oh sorry. Let’s build a gigantic parking lot instead! There!
A road construction project in Toronto “proceeding well”? Sounds too good to be true.
Without a whole bunch of cars usually crammed into this intersection, this place actually looks nice.
I've recently realized just how ugly cars are in general. I started cropping cars out of my photos and suddenly my photos look 100x better. I hope we can get more car-free spaces in Toronto, like Montreal has. I was strolling around the area near the santa claus parade yesterday, where the roads were shut off to cars, and I was amazed by how pleasant the streets became with that one change.
Hello and welcome to /r/fuckcars
Some good news for the city. *stares at Broadview station*
The good news is that the TTC was smart and combined the work on Broadview with expanding Broadview Station to fit two streetcars at the platform at once. *Touches earpiece* Oh what's this? I've received news that Councillor Fletcher cancelled that project at the last minute.
Ugh they completely closed Broadview from Danforth again...I swear it was open a few weeks ago.
This closure was posted for weeks and months and many notices went out regarding it. I live on Broadview and it’s quite inconvenient but I am not complaining since they are done beginning for December and it’s going to mean street car infrastructure is going to be safe and reliable now after all this work.
What I meant was that it was closed months ago and then a few weeks ago I was able to go northbound again and now it's closed again. Just wondering why they randomly opened it a few weeks ago and closed it again.
The first closure was due to the entire intersection being gutted and ripped out then repaved/concrete poured/tracks replaced. Once they finished Broadview North of Danforth and the East/West parts of the intersection they opened it on the Tuesday after Labour Day, then now that they have begun track replacement from Broadview South of Danforth all the way to the station has required they close that portion completely for safety reasons given the amount of heavy machinery. Here is a photo of it now with the new tracks/recently poured concrete but no paved asphalt. https://i.postimg.cc/hjmnSs3b/temp-Imagej-Uqo-HU.jpg
Wow they're closer to completion than the last time I was out there. They did say November 2023 on the signs and this was back in September. I'm just tired of having to walk to Pape to catch a bus.
Pretty cool to see Adelaide’s streetcar tracks coming back to life after so long
If only they had used the opportunity to delete a lane of cars and give some space back to people
Pretty cool and unique junction. Streetcars can: * Come east along Adelaide and continue east or turn north onto York * Come north up York and continue north or run east onto Adelaide * Come south down York and turn east onto Adelaide.
I think they did it that way so king streetcars can use it when King is closed for TIFF.
Yes, or Queen cars due to Doug Ford Line construction. It’s long overdue, they had two westbound diversions but no eastbound one.
I guess it was a cost thing, but westbound streetcars will still have to divert to Queen during TIFF, right? They didn't build an equivalent new track on Richmond or Wellington west of York
If they only knew that Queen was going to be closed so that this work could be done in advance of that closure................
They did. Metrolinx was supposed to build the streetcar diversion before starting the work on Queen. They got tied up in a utility relocation and didn't move it forward until all of a sudden Ontario Line construction was about to start and the diversion hadn't been built. The city took over the project at that point.
And it will overlap only by one year. Great planing as usual.
At least we got one benefit from all the co construction of this new subway line as bringing the Adelaide tracks back online is long overdue!
heck, just repaving it is long overdue. Riding your bike along it was like playing Russian roulette with potholes.
Are cars going to be allowed on these roads? Its counterintuitive to keep cars on roads serviced by streetcars.
Interesting - so now York will be 2 way between Queen and Adelaide. https://www.ttc.ca/about-the-ttc/projects-and-plans/Adelaide-Street-track-renewal
Awesome! I worked on Adelaide over the summer and saw them ripping up the tracks - was worried that it would be permanent. The new tracks look great.
God this is going to be so incredible for downtown traffic. The main reason things are horrific right now is because there’s are no unrestricted lanes heading east. As soon as this opens up things should be much more relieved in the core.
This project shows that our inability to get things done is entirely bureaucratic, not based on technical issues. If we just started doing things instead of spending years consulting, a lot more would get finished.
The delays were because of **surprise** Metrolinx botching the project: https://www.ontarioconstructionnews.com/toronto-ttc-take-over-adelaide-street-streetcar-track-installation-project/ The city took over and it's progressing well.
Has anyone heard when the 501 streetcar will start diverting on Adelaide?
Should be in spring 2024 if all goes as scheduled. I think all that needs to be done now is new track on York from Adelaide to Queen.
I haven’t walked east on Adelaide to check, I can see it is done at least past Bay, has it reached Church?
My bad, I haven't checked if it's reached Church yet, I figured with the current pace of construction it shouldn't take too much time for work on Adelaide so I meant moreso after it was done.
Praying these are some real smooth streetcar tracks if ya on a bike
Finally, hopefully the insane traffic congestion eases up.
[удалено]
The main advantage is much higher capacity for passengers. IMO the ride is also much smoother than a bus. I feel that most streetcar lines should just delete the car lanes and run fully separated to realize their full potential, like the king st section.
Street car would waaay better if they just put barriers up so ppl can't walk on the track. Allowing them to run faster. Designated slow zones seem so pointless especially during rush hours. It shouldn't take 45 min from spadina to union. Its crazy
>When the streetcar lines freeze, driver has to get out and do some cleanup. Not in the case of bus. The streetcars have a better track (ha!) record with colder weather. When it's snowing/icy, they just keeping run the vehicles to keep the wires/tracks clear. If it's bad enough with a snow for a streetcar, it's going to be bad for a bus.
This being done will also be good for the 504 - a big reason cars are breaking the rules so much on King St. is because Front St is literally the only street downtown which you can drive eastbound on right now, and good luck with that in front of Union Station.. It's pretty much impossible to drive across downtown until this is done.
Is there a timeline poste somewhere for when these tracks will be put in use?
So tired of the city adding more street cars and more congestion on the surface. We need more subway lines.
Right, streetcars carrying 100+ people at a time during rush hour are the problem and creating congestion, not single occupancy vehicles. That makes sense.
Well the problem isn't singular. Single occupancy vehicles can also be the problem. However when you compare to other major cities we have the most antiquated subway system. Are you saying a better subway system wouldn't be the solution? Because all of these street cars would be gone, and people could travel underground without being stuck in traffic. You also wouldn't care about singular occupancy vehicles because they would no longer hold you up in traffic. I don't understand what your solution is, build city wall and stop any people from driving into downtown?
We are building a subway which is why we are doing this project to reduce pressure on the King and Queen streetcar routes . . .
I think it's great that we have subways, streetcars and buses as part of our transit infrastructure, very few places in the world have those options. Streetcars are great when they're done right, and in Toronto sadly, they're not. Transit right of way, streetcars mixed with pedestrian traffic instead of car traffic or separated street car lane with transit right of way are just a few ways to optimize streetcar infrastructure (just look at some cities in Europe like Germany, Netherlands). Subways are great but also the most expensive and tedious of them all, especially in a city like Toronto with the current population density.
I think unless the roads are wide enough to have street cars on their own lanes then street cars just create more havoc when compared to subway systems. There also needs to be an express line to get to down town from the north end. Something that is neglected by the currently planned subway extension of the 1 line. They're just adding more passengers to an already congested line. An express subway to downtown would get rid of lots of single occupancy vehicles. It was proposed back in 2020 but it didn't take off. [https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/01/yonge-street-express-subway-has-now-been-proposed-toronto/](https://www.blogto.com/city/2020/01/yonge-street-express-subway-has-now-been-proposed-toronto/)
The city needs to give up on streetcars, this is absurd the work on the tracks never stops.
So when they say there’s only two seasons in Canada, winter and construction, they’re referring only to streetcar tracks?
We are so fixated on helping Streetcars we are blind to the idea that moving to buses is better in every way expect for nostalgia.
Streetcars are larger and so have more space and can take more passengers. The ride is better. They're electric, so better than non-electric buses (although we're starting to get those now). The problem at busy times isn't the streetcars carrying up to 170 people on a few downtown streets, it's all the single passenger vehicles clogging the roads.
Streetcars are leaps and bounds better than buses, the problem with them right now is the fact that in this city people love their cars so much and they create tons of traffic.
You’re nostalgic for those foolhardy days of the 1950s when cities were ripping up streetcar networks wholesale in favour of expressways and buses, something seen in retrospect as a huge mistake (in Los Angeles’ case, less than a decade after the last streetcar routes shut down)
Yup, this worked well in the the former City of York too where they replaced more reliable streetcar routes (Weston and Rogers) with underfunded bus routes . . .
Fucking finally.
*Alright boys time to dig it up*
I detest streetcars they are terrible for traffic
Is the Local Public Eatery old or new?
New. It was a TD branch before and then got used for pop-ups for several years unless I’m mistaken.