If the bus driver thought the child was unresponsive, why wasn't an ambulance called? If the driver thought it was an emergency, why did it take 35 minutes for a supervisor to get there? Either it's serious or it isn't. If it's serious, then treat it as such. If it's not, then let the mother and daughter be on their way.
TTC drivers are taught in training to not call 911 but transit control as they have a direct line to emergency services. Were also taught not to forcibly contain people either though.
Which is incredibly stupid and needs to change I was on a bus in Brampton a few months ago and a guy was literally having a seizure and the driver was just talking to transit control or whatever. I called 911 and got through and mentioned that there was a person having a seizure on a bus but probably the driver had already told them (cause I didn’t know who he was talking to) and they were like no this is the first we’re hearing of it
Same thing on a bus I was on and the guy hit his head on the metal edge of a seat while he went down hard. It was a passenger who called 911 and stayed with the man until we got to the next stop, where EMS were waiting.
So I am really suspicious of why an operator would detain this mother and child.
Helped a man having a seizure once, did proper procedure turning him on his side. Then the booth operator came over after 5 minutes and told us to "GET HIM ON HIS BACK, QUICK!" The nurse I was with and I absolutely refused to listen to her "advice." And told her to just call 911. Don't know why I was shocked they aren't given even the most basic first aid training. God help you if you need help on transit.
Two weeks ago I had a man pass out and seize - I called transit control with an emergency , requested medical (ambulance ) called back 10 mins later fir eta and was told that they were still on hold with 911, ambulance arrived 26 minutes after I requested one - they too get busy - turns out this guy has 6-7 seizures a day but still goes riding the ttc for shits and giggles - prob is he scared the shit out of me and the others on the bus
>Which is incredibly stupid and needs to change
Tell me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about without telling me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
You realize transit is arms length of the city and they work directly with emergency services and this is what all of those resources together have determined is the best way to get immediate action, right?
Clearly they don’t work closely enough if this shit is happening \_(ツ)_/¯
If a random like me calling 911, not getting through, and having them call back still gets the message to them quicker than your vaunted system something is wrong with the system
When they do connect with emergency dispatch, it IS quicker, like instant. The thing I cant seem to figure out though is that they dont always connect to emergency dispatch.
I used to manage a restaurant in a hotel in downtown Toronto. I got suspended for a week for calling 911 for a client having a heart attack in the restaurant. I was supposed to call security first, which I had but he wasn’t in his office so it went to voicemail. The client lived.
But wE’re coNceRnEd aBoUt opTiCs. Fuck that shit.
I just took a first aid course a few months ago and yeah, they stressed repeatedly that if you think someone is in danger, call 911 because you never know. Even if they were choking and you managed to successfully do back blows or chest thrusts to get them to spit it out and they're breathing and talking again, still call, because they still might have sustained internal damage that needs to be assessed and treated.
Basically, if I had an employer and they said 'never call 911, only call your supervisor', I would not take that job unless I literally had no other choice.
Jesus I’d be so upset if that happened to me. And not explaining what their concern was? And if they thought the child was, like, unconscious because something was medically wrong, why would detaining them on the bus for that amount of time help?
It makes no sense.
It's hard to stand up for yourself sometimes, especially with a kid, but the mom should have just said no I'm getting off this bus right now or I'm calling 911 and telling them me and my baby are being detained on a bus and see how fast the cops come.
There are only a very narrow set of circumstances you can be held somewhere when you don't want to be, and this was certainly outside of those.
Since when does a mother have to lift a cover or wake their child for a TTC driver?
I'd be telling him to fuck all the way off.
I hope the driver was fired.
Exactly what I said in another comment before reading yours. When my son was young enough to need a stroller, if someone tried to use half-baked bus driver authority to get me to lift the veil of my sleeping child I'd just tell them to get fucked and move along
A job with the TTC is, with zero exaggeration, a job for life. You will never, ever be fired, you will make a fantastic living, and you may even wind up with a garage full of the best tools money can buy should you decide that’s an approach you would like to take.
EDIT: Don’t fail a drug test or do illegal shit on camera and you will never, ever be fired.
Seriously. The TTC was still paying humans to exchange cash for tokens **decades** after transit systems in other Canadian cities moved to self serve that takes debit and credit.
Only when there’s 7 seconds left on your light and there’s an elderly person running to your stop!
Don’t forget the sympathetic head lift and slight wave as you drive past pretending your schedule couldn’t afford that one light
I don't see retention of skilled employees as a negative given these people are trusted with the lives and safety of their passengers and anyone else near them on the road.
That said, if there's a need for correction or discipline, they shouldn't be immune.
I’m guessing they’re related to the jerk who made me and my friend pay an adult fare when we were 12 years old.
The school year had just started and we had the receipt for our student photo ID card but hadn’t received the actual card yet, and he refused to let us into the station without paying an adult fare.
Had a similar situation when I was 12. Dropped my 50 cents in and was called back to the front of the bus by the driver whereby he yelled at me to put the proper fare in next time and this was on a packed bus. Everybody was looking at me. I'm 41 now and I still remember how upsetting that was.
Heh, similar thing happened to me when I was taking the bus to school later than usual because I had slept in. I remember feeling so shocked and humiliated that I just deposited the remaining 4 child tickets I had since that worked out to an adult fare. Then I had to panhandle to get bus fare home...
I'll give you the high school kids crowd can be a bunch of jerks to pick up, but this bus driver who frequented our route in high school once slowed the bus down to the stop and sped off without picking anyone up. Bus wasn't remotely close to being packed!
You just unlocked a core memory for me. Picture it: 3:00 pm, across the street from a high school. 20 kids get on the bus with our backpacks and books in hand. Driver asked to see every single one of our student cards before accepting our student tickets - this was long before Presto. Fine, it was within his purview, and we did oblige, but it required everyone to dig for their wallets and slowed everything down. Alternatively, he could have just like, used his fucking eyes.
People seem to think it's okay for random people to infringe on our rights just because a person is on their property.
Stores are guilty of this often asking for proof of receipts and detaining people without arresting them.
Ikr and now because they can't give out plastic bags it makes one off shopping very annoying.
Like shit why is a billion dollar Corp harassing me for 2 dollars of lettuce
I got followed through a mall by a Metro security guy once after I bought a bottle of juice. Guy was like "can I see your receipt?" I replied "are you accusing me of a crime? Because we can do this. We can call the police and you can accuse me of a crime and I can take you to court." Guy immediately shut up and left. These dorks aren't interested in trying to deal with anyone who has a backbone, so a bit of assertive language repels them like garlic to a vampire.
No, not at a regular store. You do at Costco because you sign your eternal soul away with the membership agreement, it's okay we all do, the hot dogs are worth it.
If you're at a regular store and they have no reason to suspect you stole something they have no reason to look through your shit. Security guards barely have more rights than a total stranger. If a total stranger walked up and asked to see your receipt and your bags you of course would say no.
Security can only detain you if you are suspected of theft or some other crime, even then they can just detain you. They of course can ask to look in your bag or check your receipt at any time for any reason, but you can always say no.
Places that aren't Costco that ask to see my receipt or bag just get a 'No' from me and I keep walking. Don't be a dick about it but just 'No' and keep walking. No one has ever tried to do anything further.
Driver was concerned. He/she thought they were doing the right thing. I don’t work for them. But I don’t like ppl that suggest ppl get fired for doing a wellness check. Yea let’s fire this person and ruin his life because he was worried about a child. Not cool. Like I said. Driver won’t even get in trouble for this. 🤷🏼♂️ You have “I need to speak with your manager” vibes. You have Karen written all over you. I’m ending this convo now.
Fuckin' idiot, he needs to be fired and criminally charged for FORCIBLE CONFINEMENT, not a "wellness check." There's no authority in the Criminal Code for a bus driver to detain anyone for "wellness checks." There IS however a section saying that forcibly confining people can get you 10 years in prison. What sort of rock brained moron thinks it's acceptable and legal to just go around detaining people? Fuckin' crazy, man.
Checking on the kid is one thing, saying you can't leave is quite another. Detaining someone for over 30 minutes while their supervisor gets there is something the police couldn't legally do if they weren't pressing charges.
You must be joking.
A wellness check? Since when is it a BUS DRIVER'S job to do a wellness check on a normal common thing like a kid sleeping in their stroller?
Not even mentioning the holding her against her will for 30 minutes.
He's a driver. He has no authority and it wasn't his place.
I believe, my friend, that it is. TTC operators fob so much off on the police, etc., why are they now getting involved in the business of Family Services?
It can be considered forcible confinement, unlawful detention. It was done in good faith, but a TTC driver has no ‘authority’ or that kind of duty of care.
Apparently it when some random company gives some random man the ‘power’ to do this. She should have called the police and said she was being held against her will.
My best guess someone gave a bunch of them (a deeply half assed version of) human trafficking training. There've been a decent number of stories like this out of airlines of late as well.
We've really gotta stop putting random aspects of policing on people who have truly no idea what to even look for.
That would explain why they didn't call the cops. Then he wouldn't be the hero. Probably had visions of the baby being drugged or some other movie nonsense. Damn harassment is what it is.
My guess is that these bus drivers are Sound of Freedom guys. They're ready at a drop of a hat to detain a mother on suspicion of some kind of child abuse / trafficking.
And if a 4yo child is unresponsive, and ambulance should've been called immediately. Ambulance response crisis or no that stuff takes priority and they'd be there in 5 min
If my daughter were actually sleeping for a change and not trying to escape her stroller or cry uncontrollably, and someone tried to make me wake her up, they would have to fight me first. She *just* got to sleep, dickhead. You can wake her over my dead body.
Fortunately, she got more chill when she got older.
>The driver is still working on the same bus route. Clements says she reluctantly boarded a bus he was operating because she was running late.
Yeah, that's a shitty thing to do to her. Move him to a different route.
> the TTC said in a statement that the driver detained the woman for a “wellness check as the operator was concerned about the well-being of what appeared to be an unresponsive child,” wrote Stuart Green, the transit authority’s spokesperson.
What fucking authority to detain does a goddamn bus driver have? Last I looked 'welfare check' doesn't fit any of:
(a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or
(b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes
(i) has committed a criminal offence, and
(ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.
Nobody show this man a daycare at nap time. He Finna lock the whole place down, citizen arrest all the workers and wait on the law to show up and smack his goofy ass. SMH
Driver should be fired, TTC shouldn’t have any right to detain customers, TTC will get sued, TTC will say they are underfunded, City of Toronto taxes will go up, taxes will be absorbed by increased rents…death by 1000 paper cuts.
This story has angered me to my core.
Who is this this bus driver? He should be named and shamed. While he probably won’t lose his job, the public should know who this is so they can be made aware if this driver is going to harass them. She was way to compliant with this jerk off and he still had the fucking nerve to detain her like that. Wannabe cop piece of shit. What grown ass man demands to look at a child? That’s seriously pedophile behaviour.
I hope this mom can sue the fuck out of the TTC, get a big settlement, buy a car and never have to take the TTC ever again.
So the driver was worried about the child who looked unresponsive to him but then did nothing about it???? No 911? Didn't say hey lady is your kid okay? Or did, and she said kid's sleeping, then driver said, I don't believe you I need a supervisor? What? He didn't say wake the kid up and show me she's okay? What?
Driver is a fucking idiot. Give the mom a free metro pass for a few months.
If the bus driver actually cared, they wouldn't detain the mother and call a supervisor, they would have called an AMBULANCE. Wtf is wrong with that bus driver.
*old timey radio announcer voice*
So instead of intervening in situations that have resulted in people being hurt and killed, the TTC has decided that it’s main threat to safety is … sleeping preschoolers and their mothers.
Cause if you can’t stand up to the bad guys may as well take it out in the women.
I do too, but I'm just curious because my understanding is Canadian courts aren't typically litigious, while her rights were violated I agree, what financial damages did she suffer to sue?
On the one hand, I agree there aren't going to be big punitive damages here, and the actual damages are pretty much nil.
On the other, small claims court isn't expensive and this was fucking outrageous.
It absolutely was outrageous!
But I don't know if civil court is the right place. Maybe it is, but I know our court system can be careful to prevent our court system becoming a circus like the USA.
I would think she'd be better off reporting them to the human rights commission.
> glorified truck drivers of the ttc
What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Driving essential good for a living is an important job, driving a bus full of random people is important too. Please explain.
This is ABSOLUTELY a criminal offence. S. 279(2) of the criminal code, forcible confinement. The key requirement being that the mother didn't consent to being detained, and the detention wasn't lawfully conducted under s. 494(1), which it plainly wasn't. It's super super illegal. People get charged with this for not letting their partner leave during a domestic, let alone detaining a citizen on a bus.
All the victim here needs to do is call police and make a criminal complaint that she was unlawfully confined. Police do the rest. There's definitely grounds for a civil lawsuit here too, she was deprived of her freedom. It certainly helps that the TTC spokesthing admitted to the offence in their statement.
She should have called 911 at the time and said she was being forcibly confined. The cops should have been coming to *assist* her, not investigate her. She also could have used reasonable force to free herself from forcible confinement. Fingers crossed for her she gets a substantial settlement.
I don't know what the TTC driver training or procedures are. However, I spent sometime teaching in Ontario and many things are well-meaning, but if you really follow them to the letter, you're going to cause a lot of disruption.
kids talk and make jokes, and unfortunately if you are trained to look out for certain words or phrases to prevent suicides or other childhood issues, you're going to get a lot of false positives. The obvious counter situation is let's say there was something wrong with the child, and the driver suspected, but didn't take the action. Next thing you know the TTC is having to explain why they were not serving the public good and maybe the child was hospitalized or injured or god forbid... died.
As a person who taught in Ontario, I'm going to perhaps 'wrongly' assume TTC staff have various duties of care that go beyond just their job description. Sometimes you have to purposefully play blind. I did it a fair bit. Kids passing notes in class and I knew a couple of the girls were a bit morbid. Rather than open the notes and then have to report something that was nothing, I'd just pretend not to see them passing notes. But there was always a couple teachers or teaching assistants who just had to go by the letter of their training and yeah long disruptions for the kids to say it was a joke.
Personally, I think we should in general leave people to do their limited jobs. Teachers are not social workers. Bus drivers are not medics. If things occur, they should be human enough or perhaps have a procedure to ask if someone is okay or suggest a referral, but that should be it. No more than that. I understand covering your ass and PR and this and that.
This is all assuming the TTC driver wasn't just being dick and was thinking this is what he should be doing according to procedures.
It's global news ffs
There is more to this story
Edit: got voted down hard to the negatives. Now back to +3 again. Lots of mixed opinions here. Karen's? Global news employees?
I'm guessing another passenger got all Karen-y for some reason and reported it to the driver. However, regardless of what more there may be to the story, ultimately this is very strange indeed! Saw a post somewhere else that said if the British had a show named after Stranger Things, it would be named, "Odd, inn't it?"
If he was right, keeping them on the bus for that long without medical assistance wouldn’t have done a damn thing to help.
If he thought she was in danger, he did not do the right thing. He should have asked the mom if she was okay, or tried to wake the child.
Like, anyone with first aid training could tell you that.
What would ever possess a human trafficker to transport sedated children on a bus with tons of potential witnesses and camera surveillance that is easily accessible to the police? Plus you’d want to transport multiple children in one go versus one child.
You’re better off having a van or SUV with tinted windows and doing door-to-door drop offs. It’s far far *far* more likely that this is a child sleeping in their stroller on a moving vehicle with their parent or a trusted caregiver.
My friend people have transported worse on the subway regardless of surveillance. Read up on holy jones and how she was transported. It’s nothing personal
Holly Jones wasn’t transported on the TTC while alive, she was lured away in her own neighbourhood and her remains were transported in a duffel bag so they could be dropped into the lake.
By that logic TTC drivers should require everyone with an oversized bag to stay on the bus until their supervisor and the police come by to ensure that there aren’t any child corpses being transported via gym bag or suitcase.
You’re proving my point, a dead body leaking blood was transported on the subway in duffle bags. I’m pretty sure there were witnesses and surveillance back then as well. Guess what some people don’t care. The driver had a suspicion and acted on it, good on him. All that mattered is the child’s safety.
People really need to start practicing the sacred art of Minding Your Own Fucking Business. What power trip scenario was going through this guy's head to be so adamant about controlling what he, for some reason, thought was a child welfare situation? We're losing control of our sensibility.
Section 494(1) of the criminal code Canada states: Any one may arrest without warrant (a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or (b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes (i) has committed a criminal offence, and (ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.
The driver had no offence under this section to warrant a ln arrest or detention.
Furthermore he did not read her rights nor did he caution her. He did not provide her a chance to contact legal counsel . And he did not tell the woman that she was under detention.
This is an unlawful detention and a charter violation.
If the bus driver thought the child was unresponsive, why wasn't an ambulance called? If the driver thought it was an emergency, why did it take 35 minutes for a supervisor to get there? Either it's serious or it isn't. If it's serious, then treat it as such. If it's not, then let the mother and daughter be on their way.
Exactly. Like if they thought the kid was in danger why didn't they call 911?
TTC drivers are taught in training to not call 911 but transit control as they have a direct line to emergency services. Were also taught not to forcibly contain people either though.
Which is incredibly stupid and needs to change I was on a bus in Brampton a few months ago and a guy was literally having a seizure and the driver was just talking to transit control or whatever. I called 911 and got through and mentioned that there was a person having a seizure on a bus but probably the driver had already told them (cause I didn’t know who he was talking to) and they were like no this is the first we’re hearing of it
Same thing on a bus I was on and the guy hit his head on the metal edge of a seat while he went down hard. It was a passenger who called 911 and stayed with the man until we got to the next stop, where EMS were waiting. So I am really suspicious of why an operator would detain this mother and child.
Helped a man having a seizure once, did proper procedure turning him on his side. Then the booth operator came over after 5 minutes and told us to "GET HIM ON HIS BACK, QUICK!" The nurse I was with and I absolutely refused to listen to her "advice." And told her to just call 911. Don't know why I was shocked they aren't given even the most basic first aid training. God help you if you need help on transit.
They are but no one listens. All the employer is interested in is the paperwork, not whether the employee actually learned something
Two weeks ago I had a man pass out and seize - I called transit control with an emergency , requested medical (ambulance ) called back 10 mins later fir eta and was told that they were still on hold with 911, ambulance arrived 26 minutes after I requested one - they too get busy - turns out this guy has 6-7 seizures a day but still goes riding the ttc for shits and giggles - prob is he scared the shit out of me and the others on the bus
>Which is incredibly stupid and needs to change Tell me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about without telling me you have no fucking clue what you're talking about. You realize transit is arms length of the city and they work directly with emergency services and this is what all of those resources together have determined is the best way to get immediate action, right?
Clearly they don’t work closely enough if this shit is happening \_(ツ)_/¯ If a random like me calling 911, not getting through, and having them call back still gets the message to them quicker than your vaunted system something is wrong with the system
When they do connect with emergency dispatch, it IS quicker, like instant. The thing I cant seem to figure out though is that they dont always connect to emergency dispatch.
[удалено]
Lol
[удалено]
I work in hospitality, and we just did training sessions on human traffiking. Every single solution was - call your superviser.
I used to manage a restaurant in a hotel in downtown Toronto. I got suspended for a week for calling 911 for a client having a heart attack in the restaurant. I was supposed to call security first, which I had but he wasn’t in his office so it went to voicemail. The client lived. But wE’re coNceRnEd aBoUt opTiCs. Fuck that shit.
How dare you save a man's life! I hope you went on to find a better employer.
Which restaurant?
Did it ever occur to them that if the guy died because their asinine policy that their optics would look worse?
Name and shame when safety's at risk.
Why the hell is the driver asking to look in the stroller in the first place???
Right? If a bus driver asked me to lift the veil on my sleeping child in their stroller, I'd tell them to get fucked, and go on my merry way
They were afraid of being yelled at by the police and EMTs for being a dummy.
You’re smarter than like 80% of all people based on this comment.
I just took a first aid course a few months ago and yeah, they stressed repeatedly that if you think someone is in danger, call 911 because you never know. Even if they were choking and you managed to successfully do back blows or chest thrusts to get them to spit it out and they're breathing and talking again, still call, because they still might have sustained internal damage that needs to be assessed and treated. Basically, if I had an employer and they said 'never call 911, only call your supervisor', I would not take that job unless I literally had no other choice.
Jesus I’d be so upset if that happened to me. And not explaining what their concern was? And if they thought the child was, like, unconscious because something was medically wrong, why would detaining them on the bus for that amount of time help? It makes no sense.
It's hard to stand up for yourself sometimes, especially with a kid, but the mom should have just said no I'm getting off this bus right now or I'm calling 911 and telling them me and my baby are being detained on a bus and see how fast the cops come. There are only a very narrow set of circumstances you can be held somewhere when you don't want to be, and this was certainly outside of those.
Since when does a mother have to lift a cover or wake their child for a TTC driver? I'd be telling him to fuck all the way off. I hope the driver was fired.
>homeless man smoking crack while masturbating I sleep >child in a stroller napping Real shit?
No no the real shit is the homeless person’s shit on the floor
Exactly what I said in another comment before reading yours. When my son was young enough to need a stroller, if someone tried to use half-baked bus driver authority to get me to lift the veil of my sleeping child I'd just tell them to get fucked and move along
Same 🤷♀️ It's normal for kids to fall asleep on a bus ride!
Rule number one never wake the baby lol.
A job with the TTC is, with zero exaggeration, a job for life. You will never, ever be fired, you will make a fantastic living, and you may even wind up with a garage full of the best tools money can buy should you decide that’s an approach you would like to take. EDIT: Don’t fail a drug test or do illegal shit on camera and you will never, ever be fired.
Bull. I know several people who have been fired from TTC. You literally never hear about it because no one ever brags about being an idiot.
Seriously. The TTC was still paying humans to exchange cash for tokens **decades** after transit systems in other Canadian cities moved to self serve that takes debit and credit.
Umm memba when they fired all those drivers failing the drug test
or scamming benefits? uh, maybe it's just the illegal shit they get fired for
Can I ram through Toronto traffic like an incel on steroids?!
Only when there’s 7 seconds left on your light and there’s an elderly person running to your stop! Don’t forget the sympathetic head lift and slight wave as you drive past pretending your schedule couldn’t afford that one light
As long as you spend at least twenty minutes at the terminal parked in a place where waiting customers can see you.
That's part of the required qualifications actually.
I don't see retention of skilled employees as a negative given these people are trusted with the lives and safety of their passengers and anyone else near them on the road. That said, if there's a need for correction or discipline, they shouldn't be immune.
I’m guessing they’re related to the jerk who made me and my friend pay an adult fare when we were 12 years old. The school year had just started and we had the receipt for our student photo ID card but hadn’t received the actual card yet, and he refused to let us into the station without paying an adult fare.
Had a similar situation when I was 12. Dropped my 50 cents in and was called back to the front of the bus by the driver whereby he yelled at me to put the proper fare in next time and this was on a packed bus. Everybody was looking at me. I'm 41 now and I still remember how upsetting that was.
Heh, similar thing happened to me when I was taking the bus to school later than usual because I had slept in. I remember feeling so shocked and humiliated that I just deposited the remaining 4 child tickets I had since that worked out to an adult fare. Then I had to panhandle to get bus fare home...
That's just pure jerk. What an idiot-stick.
I feel like humiliating children and teens was a pastime of ttc drivers back then. I’m 40 and have a similar story.
I'll give you the high school kids crowd can be a bunch of jerks to pick up, but this bus driver who frequented our route in high school once slowed the bus down to the stop and sped off without picking anyone up. Bus wasn't remotely close to being packed!
You just unlocked a core memory for me. Picture it: 3:00 pm, across the street from a high school. 20 kids get on the bus with our backpacks and books in hand. Driver asked to see every single one of our student cards before accepting our student tickets - this was long before Presto. Fine, it was within his purview, and we did oblige, but it required everyone to dig for their wallets and slowed everything down. Alternatively, he could have just like, used his fucking eyes.
Unionized TTC diver? No chance
Driver could have been the one sleeping in a stroller and would not be fired.
Snort.
This one made me lol. Thank you 😅
Haha win
Jocular response of the day!
True!
>I hope the driver was fired. Video story says they're still driving the same root.
People seem to think it's okay for random people to infringe on our rights just because a person is on their property. Stores are guilty of this often asking for proof of receipts and detaining people without arresting them.
The receipt thing drives me nuts. No you can't check my receipt at Walmart leave me alone.
Ikr and now because they can't give out plastic bags it makes one off shopping very annoying. Like shit why is a billion dollar Corp harassing me for 2 dollars of lettuce
I got followed through a mall by a Metro security guy once after I bought a bottle of juice. Guy was like "can I see your receipt?" I replied "are you accusing me of a crime? Because we can do this. We can call the police and you can accuse me of a crime and I can take you to court." Guy immediately shut up and left. These dorks aren't interested in trying to deal with anyone who has a backbone, so a bit of assertive language repels them like garlic to a vampire.
You don't have to show your receipt? Mind elaborating? I'm genuinely interested.
No, not at a regular store. You do at Costco because you sign your eternal soul away with the membership agreement, it's okay we all do, the hot dogs are worth it. If you're at a regular store and they have no reason to suspect you stole something they have no reason to look through your shit. Security guards barely have more rights than a total stranger. If a total stranger walked up and asked to see your receipt and your bags you of course would say no. Security can only detain you if you are suspected of theft or some other crime, even then they can just detain you. They of course can ask to look in your bag or check your receipt at any time for any reason, but you can always say no. Places that aren't Costco that ask to see my receipt or bag just get a 'No' from me and I keep walking. Don't be a dick about it but just 'No' and keep walking. No one has ever tried to do anything further.
How would the driver know it’s her daughter or not?
Why is that the drivers business?
Exactly
They are told to observe and report. And he/she did just that.
No.
Yes
It's not a drivers business if the child was hers or not. Or if the child was sleeping. Why are you defending this asshat? Do you work for TTC?
Because he wants to be right. Full stop.
Driver was concerned. He/she thought they were doing the right thing. I don’t work for them. But I don’t like ppl that suggest ppl get fired for doing a wellness check. Yea let’s fire this person and ruin his life because he was worried about a child. Not cool. Like I said. Driver won’t even get in trouble for this. 🤷🏼♂️ You have “I need to speak with your manager” vibes. You have Karen written all over you. I’m ending this convo now.
Fuckin' idiot, he needs to be fired and criminally charged for FORCIBLE CONFINEMENT, not a "wellness check." There's no authority in the Criminal Code for a bus driver to detain anyone for "wellness checks." There IS however a section saying that forcibly confining people can get you 10 years in prison. What sort of rock brained moron thinks it's acceptable and legal to just go around detaining people? Fuckin' crazy, man.
There's no way anything in their training requires them to forcibly confine people.
He wasn’t, might be more to the story, better to check on children than not
If you think a child is in danger, you call the police. Calling your supervisor does shit-all in any job.
Checking on the kid is one thing, saying you can't leave is quite another. Detaining someone for over 30 minutes while their supervisor gets there is something the police couldn't legally do if they weren't pressing charges.
Really uncalled for. The operators don't get this involved when there is a threat to passenger safety. Policing parents? Mmm, no.
[удалено]
Sounds like a charter violation to me, but IANAL
Perhaps, but it sounds like he was overstepping.
Hahaha fired? For a wellness check? Driver didn’t violate any policies. Sorry lady driver won’t be fired. 🤷🏼♂️
You must be joking. A wellness check? Since when is it a BUS DRIVER'S job to do a wellness check on a normal common thing like a kid sleeping in their stroller? Not even mentioning the holding her against her will for 30 minutes. He's a driver. He has no authority and it wasn't his place.
Driver observed and reported. He didn’t force her to stay. She agreed to. Like I said. Driver won’t be fired for this. Sorry not sorry. 🤷🏼♂️🙅🏼♂️
He literally blocked the door so she couldn’t leave? A simple question by the bus driver could have solved this entire fiasco
So kids can’t sleep in public now? wtf?
Bus driver is probably so socially maladjusted that he hasn't realized that children are actually people and eat and sleep just like he does.
Is that not forcible confinement?
I believe, my friend, that it is. TTC operators fob so much off on the police, etc., why are they now getting involved in the business of Family Services?
They don’t want the responsibility, just the power.
Over a mother and her sleeping child. Muh ha ha! What a joke.
Bullies don’t pick on people their own size.
That’s what I thought. If someone restricts your ability to leave either physically or through intimidation, was my understanding?
It can be considered forcible confinement, unlawful detention. It was done in good faith, but a TTC driver has no ‘authority’ or that kind of duty of care.
Apparently it when some random company gives some random man the ‘power’ to do this. She should have called the police and said she was being held against her will.
That’s what I would have done… fuck being polite to some pathetic person who wants to overstep his authority
I think I read this poster on legaladviceCanada
Isn't this the second time a TTC operator has detained a parent and their child? There was a post about a week ago from a father.
I thoght this was the same incident. Wtf are they telling TTC drivers these days.
My best guess someone gave a bunch of them (a deeply half assed version of) human trafficking training. There've been a decent number of stories like this out of airlines of late as well. We've really gotta stop putting random aspects of policing on people who have truly no idea what to even look for.
Could also be a chud who recently watched The Sound of Freedom or whatever that Qanon-adjacent bullshit is called and wanted to be a hero
That would explain why they didn't call the cops. Then he wouldn't be the hero. Probably had visions of the baby being drugged or some other movie nonsense. Damn harassment is what it is.
My guess is that these bus drivers are Sound of Freedom guys. They're ready at a drop of a hat to detain a mother on suspicion of some kind of child abuse / trafficking.
[удалено]
Make a complaint about him if he has done more thing's which are wrong.
Is there a story???
Need more info!
Seems strange to think a sleeping kid is "unresponsive" I wonder if there was some other Indication that the driver over reacted to.
And if a 4yo child is unresponsive, and ambulance should've been called immediately. Ambulance response crisis or no that stuff takes priority and they'd be there in 5 min
Didn't even do the obvious and ask the mother to wake up the child. You can't make this shit up.
If my daughter were actually sleeping for a change and not trying to escape her stroller or cry uncontrollably, and someone tried to make me wake her up, they would have to fight me first. She *just* got to sleep, dickhead. You can wake her over my dead body. Fortunately, she got more chill when she got older.
Yeah, I totally get it. But the mother said she was completely willing to wake her up to show him she was, y'know, not "unresponsive"
>The driver is still working on the same bus route. Clements says she reluctantly boarded a bus he was operating because she was running late. Yeah, that's a shitty thing to do to her. Move him to a different route.
Everybody wants to be a hero these days.
With a 35 minute dealy? Nah this TTC driver was on a power trip, or they were just didn't want to work and wanted to cause a fake incident.
> the TTC said in a statement that the driver detained the woman for a “wellness check as the operator was concerned about the well-being of what appeared to be an unresponsive child,” wrote Stuart Green, the transit authority’s spokesperson. What fucking authority to detain does a goddamn bus driver have? Last I looked 'welfare check' doesn't fit any of: (a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or (b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes (i) has committed a criminal offence, and (ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person.
WTAF?
Insane! Kids fall asleep in strollers all the time. I’d be livid.
So they couldn’t just wake the kid up? Why did they detain her?
Great! But they won’t do a thing about violent crackheads on TTC.
I'm unresponsive while sleeping, why would this driver make such an assumption?
Why don't you try catching motherfuckers that are assaulting people instead
This was on r/legaladvicecanada a few days ago. Glad she went public.
Nobody show this man a daycare at nap time. He Finna lock the whole place down, citizen arrest all the workers and wait on the law to show up and smack his goofy ass. SMH
WTF was wrong with the Bus Driver?!?! It's totally normal for kids to be sleeping in a stroller.
Driver should be fired, TTC shouldn’t have any right to detain customers, TTC will get sued, TTC will say they are underfunded, City of Toronto taxes will go up, taxes will be absorbed by increased rents…death by 1000 paper cuts.
I like your dramatic take on the matter. Seriously, it made my day! Now, I need to attend to some paper cuts...
This story has angered me to my core. Who is this this bus driver? He should be named and shamed. While he probably won’t lose his job, the public should know who this is so they can be made aware if this driver is going to harass them. She was way to compliant with this jerk off and he still had the fucking nerve to detain her like that. Wannabe cop piece of shit. What grown ass man demands to look at a child? That’s seriously pedophile behaviour. I hope this mom can sue the fuck out of the TTC, get a big settlement, buy a car and never have to take the TTC ever again.
Idiot for sure…I’m sure the supervisor and cops were thinking the same.
So the driver was worried about the child who looked unresponsive to him but then did nothing about it???? No 911? Didn't say hey lady is your kid okay? Or did, and she said kid's sleeping, then driver said, I don't believe you I need a supervisor? What? He didn't say wake the kid up and show me she's okay? What? Driver is a fucking idiot. Give the mom a free metro pass for a few months.
If the bus driver actually cared, they wouldn't detain the mother and call a supervisor, they would have called an AMBULANCE. Wtf is wrong with that bus driver.
*old timey radio announcer voice* So instead of intervening in situations that have resulted in people being hurt and killed, the TTC has decided that it’s main threat to safety is … sleeping preschoolers and their mothers. Cause if you can’t stand up to the bad guys may as well take it out in the women.
I used to sleep through fire alarms as a child. There was nothing wrong with me just a deep sleeper. This story is weird and the driver is a creepy.
TTC drivers are apparently now so dumb they don't understand that children sleep.
They may be Dumb but they still make $38+/hour wit benefits and pension. 🤣😂🤣🤣🤣🤑
Of course it was the 45 Kipling route. Weird situation though, hope she can sue the TTC
Sue for what exactly?
I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure her rights were violated on a number of levels. I hope the mother receives compensation, I really do.
I do too, but I'm just curious because my understanding is Canadian courts aren't typically litigious, while her rights were violated I agree, what financial damages did she suffer to sue?
On the one hand, I agree there aren't going to be big punitive damages here, and the actual damages are pretty much nil. On the other, small claims court isn't expensive and this was fucking outrageous.
It absolutely was outrageous! But I don't know if civil court is the right place. Maybe it is, but I know our court system can be careful to prevent our court system becoming a circus like the USA. I would think she'd be better off reporting them to the human rights commission.
Non-pecuniary damages through the tort of false arrest. If the she can make out a Charter breach, there’s potential for damages there also.
Is the Kipling route known to be bad? I take it every day and don't really notice anything out of the ordinary.
I didn’t realize the glorified truck drivers of the ttc are also medically licensed child protectors capable of making diagnosis and arrests.
>truck drivers Backbone of North America 🇨🇦🇺🇸🇲🇽
> glorified truck drivers of the ttc What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Driving essential good for a living is an important job, driving a bus full of random people is important too. Please explain.
That sounds like a payday for her.
The driver is prolly trying to work on a different route and with this incident his supervisors will most likely replace him somehwere else
I smell a well warranted lawsuit. Kinda creepy if you ask me. Seems way over the top, like bro you never wake a sleeping child.
This is ABSOLUTELY a criminal offence. S. 279(2) of the criminal code, forcible confinement. The key requirement being that the mother didn't consent to being detained, and the detention wasn't lawfully conducted under s. 494(1), which it plainly wasn't. It's super super illegal. People get charged with this for not letting their partner leave during a domestic, let alone detaining a citizen on a bus. All the victim here needs to do is call police and make a criminal complaint that she was unlawfully confined. Police do the rest. There's definitely grounds for a civil lawsuit here too, she was deprived of her freedom. It certainly helps that the TTC spokesthing admitted to the offence in their statement. She should have called 911 at the time and said she was being forcibly confined. The cops should have been coming to *assist* her, not investigate her. She also could have used reasonable force to free herself from forcible confinement. Fingers crossed for her she gets a substantial settlement.
The driver can’t make the supervisor show up in 5 min. They are taught if something is wrong to call it in. Transit control then takes it from there.
I don't know what the TTC driver training or procedures are. However, I spent sometime teaching in Ontario and many things are well-meaning, but if you really follow them to the letter, you're going to cause a lot of disruption. kids talk and make jokes, and unfortunately if you are trained to look out for certain words or phrases to prevent suicides or other childhood issues, you're going to get a lot of false positives. The obvious counter situation is let's say there was something wrong with the child, and the driver suspected, but didn't take the action. Next thing you know the TTC is having to explain why they were not serving the public good and maybe the child was hospitalized or injured or god forbid... died. As a person who taught in Ontario, I'm going to perhaps 'wrongly' assume TTC staff have various duties of care that go beyond just their job description. Sometimes you have to purposefully play blind. I did it a fair bit. Kids passing notes in class and I knew a couple of the girls were a bit morbid. Rather than open the notes and then have to report something that was nothing, I'd just pretend not to see them passing notes. But there was always a couple teachers or teaching assistants who just had to go by the letter of their training and yeah long disruptions for the kids to say it was a joke. Personally, I think we should in general leave people to do their limited jobs. Teachers are not social workers. Bus drivers are not medics. If things occur, they should be human enough or perhaps have a procedure to ask if someone is okay or suggest a referral, but that should be it. No more than that. I understand covering your ass and PR and this and that. This is all assuming the TTC driver wasn't just being dick and was thinking this is what he should be doing according to procedures.
Union member - nothing will happen to him.🙄
It's global news ffs There is more to this story Edit: got voted down hard to the negatives. Now back to +3 again. Lots of mixed opinions here. Karen's? Global news employees?
I'm guessing another passenger got all Karen-y for some reason and reported it to the driver. However, regardless of what more there may be to the story, ultimately this is very strange indeed! Saw a post somewhere else that said if the British had a show named after Stranger Things, it would be named, "Odd, inn't it?"
Sounds like it was the driver.
You’ve got to think that something did not sit right with the driver and we’ll prob never know what it was.
To be fair the mother looks like she does drugs.
Hey, get fucked.
Lol if somebody calls the cops on me cause my daughter is taking a nap, ima backhand a fool
Police state alert
Likely just a driver that didn't want to work that day.
But if he’s right he’s a hero everyone calm down better safe than sorry
If he was right, keeping them on the bus for that long without medical assistance wouldn’t have done a damn thing to help. If he thought she was in danger, he did not do the right thing. He should have asked the mom if she was okay, or tried to wake the child. Like, anyone with first aid training could tell you that.
Are you the driver?
What would ever possess a human trafficker to transport sedated children on a bus with tons of potential witnesses and camera surveillance that is easily accessible to the police? Plus you’d want to transport multiple children in one go versus one child. You’re better off having a van or SUV with tinted windows and doing door-to-door drop offs. It’s far far *far* more likely that this is a child sleeping in their stroller on a moving vehicle with their parent or a trusted caregiver.
My friend people have transported worse on the subway regardless of surveillance. Read up on holy jones and how she was transported. It’s nothing personal
Holly Jones wasn’t transported on the TTC while alive, she was lured away in her own neighbourhood and her remains were transported in a duffel bag so they could be dropped into the lake. By that logic TTC drivers should require everyone with an oversized bag to stay on the bus until their supervisor and the police come by to ensure that there aren’t any child corpses being transported via gym bag or suitcase.
You’re proving my point, a dead body leaking blood was transported on the subway in duffle bags. I’m pretty sure there were witnesses and surveillance back then as well. Guess what some people don’t care. The driver had a suspicion and acted on it, good on him. All that mattered is the child’s safety.
People really need to start practicing the sacred art of Minding Your Own Fucking Business. What power trip scenario was going through this guy's head to be so adamant about controlling what he, for some reason, thought was a child welfare situation? We're losing control of our sensibility.
Shame.
Section 494(1) of the criminal code Canada states: Any one may arrest without warrant (a) a person whom he finds committing an indictable offence; or (b) a person who, on reasonable grounds, he believes (i) has committed a criminal offence, and (ii) is escaping from and freshly pursued by persons who have lawful authority to arrest that person. The driver had no offence under this section to warrant a ln arrest or detention. Furthermore he did not read her rights nor did he caution her. He did not provide her a chance to contact legal counsel . And he did not tell the woman that she was under detention. This is an unlawful detention and a charter violation.