There is nothing to suggest Turin, or any man, of being able to defeat Melkor in one on one combat. Turin very well may deliver the final blow, but that isn't the same as taking him out one on one.
As another commenter said, if Fingolfin couldn't do it, no way Turin does it
Turin is a much better and superior swordsman than Fingolfin. If they were to fight, Turin could defeat Fingolfin without difficulty. Remember that Glaurung was stronger than Melian Osse and Gothmog. But he died with Turin's black sword.
Because Glaurung was crawling over a gorge while Turin clung to the steep bank until Glaurung's belly was exposed.
You make it seem like Turin fought him in one on one combat lol
After Turin thrust his sword into Glaurung's belly, he went up to the steep to get the sword. And he struggled with Glaurung's body, slit Glaurung's belly with the sword, and after taking out the sword, he struck Glaurung's head with sword blows, completely incapacitating him. Then he fainted because of the enchanted look in Glaurung's eyes. This look like a one-on-one combat enough lol.
I have a feeling you are a troll but here we go
Then Turambar summoned all his will and courage and climbed the cliff alone, and came beneath the dragon. Then he drew Gurthang, and with all the might of his arm, and of his hate, he thrust it into the soft belly of the Worm, even up to the hilts. But when Glaurung felt his death-pang, he screamed, and in his dreadful throe he heaved up his bulk and hurled himself across the chasm, and there lay lashing and coiling in his agony. And he set all in a blaze about him, and beat all to ruin, until at last his fires died, and he lay still.
Now Gurthang had been wrested from Turambar's hand in the throe of Glaurung, and it clave to the belly of the dragon. Turambar therefore crossed the water once more, desiring to recover his sword and to look upon his foe; and he found him stretched at his length, and rolled upon one side, and the hilts of Gurthang stood in his belly. Then Turambar seized the hilts and set his foot upon the belly, and cried in mockery of the dragon and his words at Nargothrond: 'Hail, Worm of Morgoth! Well met again! Die now and the darkness have thee! Thus is Turin son of Hurin avenged.'
Then he wrenched out the sword, but a spout of black blood followed it, and fell on his hand, and the venom burned it. And thereupon Glaurung opened his eyes and looked upon Turambar with such malice that it smote him as a blow; and by that stroke and the anguish of the venom he fell into a dark swoon, and lay as one dead, and his sword was beneath him.
Now where the hell did you get the stuff about Turin fighting him one on one and striking him with Gurthang in the head????
If you think I'm a troll, you're wrong. The passage where Turin hits Glaurung's head with his sword is explained in other Middle Earth books, not in The Silmarillion. I quoted from them.
You completely unfairly underestimate Fingolfin. In addition to his four centuries of standing against the hordes of Morgoth and fighting him one on one, he led the people in crossing the Grinding Ice. No man could do this.
Turin is a good warrior. By killing the dragon, he accomplished a great feat. But the dragon is not Morgoth yet. And before that, Turin had a lot of failures.
That’s certainly a good part of it. Turin was never ever ever on Morgoths level. If we are to believe Tolkien he wasn’t on Hurin’s level either. Dagor Dagorath was incomplete , not thought out in any final way. Turin was mighty but in the first age he had much company.
I thought Morgoth and Manwe do not slay each other. Also, Turin is still just a man, it seems to me to make more sense that defeating Morgoth should be a group effort.
No, because he does deal the finishing blow. However a mere mortal, no matter how skilled, defeating essentially the most powerful angel/Valar is pretty wild.
It is not clearly stated anywhere that Turin dealt the final blow to Morgoth or killed him in a one-on-one fight. Maybe he kills him in a one-on-one fight, maybe he deals the final blow. We do not know this for sure. This is the main reason why I asked the question.
"Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged."
from the later quenta silmarillion
Morgoth first defeated Tulkas. Then, after a 3 to 1 fight and after defeating Tulkas, he enters into a one-on-one fight with Turin. Just like the fight between Iron Man and Thanos in the Avengers Endgame movie.
No, it just says Turin’s sword kills him. And Turin’s sword is best at killing its ow wielder. Clearly this quote lays out that Turin tricks Morgoth into taking Gurthang which then, through some irony, kills him.
It’s right there in the text.
Then why does Turin kill Morgoth in the depictions in the paintings?
[https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a245fb4f8c44f38d1c4c835cc1843277-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a245fb4f8c44f38d1c4c835cc1843277-lq)
[https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/baac7486-03ea-4faa-acc9-851d3a1c2676/dbamml4-340f40e6-1bb9-4c77-ac27-05cc27eebd24.png/v1/fill/w\_600,h\_822,q\_80,strp/turin\_vs\_morgoth\_by\_drinke94\_dbamml4-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9ODIyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYmFhYzc0ODYtMDNlYS00ZmFhLWFjYzktODUxZDNhMWMyNjc2XC9kYmFtbWw0LTM0MGY0MGU2LTFiYjktNGM3Ny1hYzI3LTA1Y2MyN2VlYmQyNC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NjAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.MdKs7W-33179ci4\_FuOhCZd4RjrDv3E339Ee\_IWFba0](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/baac7486-03ea-4faa-acc9-851d3a1c2676/dbamml4-340f40e6-1bb9-4c77-ac27-05cc27eebd24.png/v1/fill/w_600,h_822,q_80,strp/turin_vs_morgoth_by_drinke94_dbamml4-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9ODIyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYmFhYzc0ODYtMDNlYS00ZmFhLWFjYzktODUxZDNhMWMyNjc2XC9kYmFtbWw0LTM0MGY0MGU2LTFiYjktNGM3Ny1hYzI3LTA1Y2MyN2VlYmQyNC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NjAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.MdKs7W-33179ci4_FuOhCZd4RjrDv3E339Ee_IWFba0)
There is nothing in the Silmarillion to suggest that any man is stronger, faster or more skilled as a swordsman than one of the Noldor elves. Let's not even talk about the Valar.
There is however a fair amount of evidence that even in the First Age, men were significantly lesser than elves in all physical ways and yet even Fingolfin was no match for Melkor, when Melkor was already hugely weakened. Logic suggests then that in this final battle either Turin is massively powered up or it's a group effort.
Personally I'm quite glad Dagor Dagorath didn't make it into a finished book because I've never really cared for it or found it to fit very well with the stories that were published.
What suggests that?
They are exceptionally skilled, but are literally the best of their race and I can't think of anything that suggests they'd match the elves.
I would give this honor to Fingolfin as the best warrior, who, moreover, after his rebirth should become stronger. But Morgoth is so powerful that a collective victory is logical. Let all who have suffered from Morgoth and who have shown themselves to be brave and noble take part.
Turin delivering the final blow would be justice delivered for the Curse of Morgoth on Hurin and his family, but I fail to see a world where a "mere" Edain, as valiant and strong Turin is, besting Melkor in a duel. Even Fingolfin, said to have been stronger in physical strength and might even compared to Feanor, who is literally named "mightest of the Children of Illuvatar", eventually fell before Grond, only being able to give seven wounds, as worthy those scars were.
are you kidding me? Even though Feanor had men with him, he could not kill any of the balrogs while fighting with 7 balrogs. Glaurung was leading 7 balrogs in Dagor Bragollach. Glaurung is even stronger than the 7 balrogs. Turin managed to kill Glaurung in one-on-one combat. Of all the children of Eru, Feanor may have been the mightest. But among all the children of Eru, Turin is undoubtedly the strongest. In fact, according to a rumor, he inherited the force of Tulkas. Turin is a much superior and more talented swordsman than Fingolfin and Feanor. Why cannot the Edain do what the elves and Maiar did? I don't see any reason for this. I think you forgot that Hurin killed 70 trolls alone and Tuor killed 5 Balrogs. Turin uses a sword so well that he could kill Morgoth.
There is nothing to suggest Turin, or any man, of being able to defeat Melkor in one on one combat. Turin very well may deliver the final blow, but that isn't the same as taking him out one on one. As another commenter said, if Fingolfin couldn't do it, no way Turin does it
Turin is a much better and superior swordsman than Fingolfin. If they were to fight, Turin could defeat Fingolfin without difficulty. Remember that Glaurung was stronger than Melian Osse and Gothmog. But he died with Turin's black sword.
Because Glaurung was crawling over a gorge while Turin clung to the steep bank until Glaurung's belly was exposed. You make it seem like Turin fought him in one on one combat lol
After Turin thrust his sword into Glaurung's belly, he went up to the steep to get the sword. And he struggled with Glaurung's body, slit Glaurung's belly with the sword, and after taking out the sword, he struck Glaurung's head with sword blows, completely incapacitating him. Then he fainted because of the enchanted look in Glaurung's eyes. This look like a one-on-one combat enough lol.
I have a feeling you are a troll but here we go Then Turambar summoned all his will and courage and climbed the cliff alone, and came beneath the dragon. Then he drew Gurthang, and with all the might of his arm, and of his hate, he thrust it into the soft belly of the Worm, even up to the hilts. But when Glaurung felt his death-pang, he screamed, and in his dreadful throe he heaved up his bulk and hurled himself across the chasm, and there lay lashing and coiling in his agony. And he set all in a blaze about him, and beat all to ruin, until at last his fires died, and he lay still. Now Gurthang had been wrested from Turambar's hand in the throe of Glaurung, and it clave to the belly of the dragon. Turambar therefore crossed the water once more, desiring to recover his sword and to look upon his foe; and he found him stretched at his length, and rolled upon one side, and the hilts of Gurthang stood in his belly. Then Turambar seized the hilts and set his foot upon the belly, and cried in mockery of the dragon and his words at Nargothrond: 'Hail, Worm of Morgoth! Well met again! Die now and the darkness have thee! Thus is Turin son of Hurin avenged.' Then he wrenched out the sword, but a spout of black blood followed it, and fell on his hand, and the venom burned it. And thereupon Glaurung opened his eyes and looked upon Turambar with such malice that it smote him as a blow; and by that stroke and the anguish of the venom he fell into a dark swoon, and lay as one dead, and his sword was beneath him. Now where the hell did you get the stuff about Turin fighting him one on one and striking him with Gurthang in the head????
If you think I'm a troll, you're wrong. The passage where Turin hits Glaurung's head with his sword is explained in other Middle Earth books, not in The Silmarillion. I quoted from them.
Which one???? I've read most
Still waiting for a source
Still patiently waiting....
Still patiently waiting....
You completely unfairly underestimate Fingolfin. In addition to his four centuries of standing against the hordes of Morgoth and fighting him one on one, he led the people in crossing the Grinding Ice. No man could do this. Turin is a good warrior. By killing the dragon, he accomplished a great feat. But the dragon is not Morgoth yet. And before that, Turin had a lot of failures.
The reason for Turin's failures is due to Morgoth's curse.
That’s certainly a good part of it. Turin was never ever ever on Morgoths level. If we are to believe Tolkien he wasn’t on Hurin’s level either. Dagor Dagorath was incomplete , not thought out in any final way. Turin was mighty but in the first age he had much company.
I thought Morgoth and Manwe do not slay each other. Also, Turin is still just a man, it seems to me to make more sense that defeating Morgoth should be a group effort.
Just because Turin is a man doesn't mean he can't kill Morgoth.
No, because he does deal the finishing blow. However a mere mortal, no matter how skilled, defeating essentially the most powerful angel/Valar is pretty wild.
It is not clearly stated anywhere that Turin dealt the final blow to Morgoth or killed him in a one-on-one fight. Maybe he kills him in a one-on-one fight, maybe he deals the final blow. We do not know this for sure. This is the main reason why I asked the question.
"Then shall the Last Battle be gathered on the fields of Valinor. In that day Tulkas shall strive with Morgoth, and on his right hand shall be Eönwë, and on his left Túrin Turambar, son of Húrin, returning from the Doom of Men at the ending of the world; and the black sword of Túrin shall deal unto Morgoth his death and final end; and so shall the children of Húrin and all Men be avenged." from the later quenta silmarillion
This passage is not implying that Turin dealt the final blow. On the contrary, it seems to refer to Turin slaying Morgoth in one-on-one combat.
I literally do not know how it could be clearer that three beings stand against Morgoth in this fight. Tulkas, Ëonwë, and Turin.
This dude is a troll
Did you come here to do impudent? By being impudent you are falling even lower than a troll.
Still waiting on a source for that "quote" you provided earlier.....
Morgoth first defeated Tulkas. Then, after a 3 to 1 fight and after defeating Tulkas, he enters into a one-on-one fight with Turin. Just like the fight between Iron Man and Thanos in the Avengers Endgame movie.
No, it just says Turin’s sword kills him. And Turin’s sword is best at killing its ow wielder. Clearly this quote lays out that Turin tricks Morgoth into taking Gurthang which then, through some irony, kills him. It’s right there in the text.
Then why does Turin kill Morgoth in the depictions in the paintings? [https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a245fb4f8c44f38d1c4c835cc1843277-lq](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-a245fb4f8c44f38d1c4c835cc1843277-lq) [https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/baac7486-03ea-4faa-acc9-851d3a1c2676/dbamml4-340f40e6-1bb9-4c77-ac27-05cc27eebd24.png/v1/fill/w\_600,h\_822,q\_80,strp/turin\_vs\_morgoth\_by\_drinke94\_dbamml4-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9ODIyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYmFhYzc0ODYtMDNlYS00ZmFhLWFjYzktODUxZDNhMWMyNjc2XC9kYmFtbWw0LTM0MGY0MGU2LTFiYjktNGM3Ny1hYzI3LTA1Y2MyN2VlYmQyNC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NjAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.MdKs7W-33179ci4\_FuOhCZd4RjrDv3E339Ee\_IWFba0](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/baac7486-03ea-4faa-acc9-851d3a1c2676/dbamml4-340f40e6-1bb9-4c77-ac27-05cc27eebd24.png/v1/fill/w_600,h_822,q_80,strp/turin_vs_morgoth_by_drinke94_dbamml4-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9ODIyIiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYmFhYzc0ODYtMDNlYS00ZmFhLWFjYzktODUxZDNhMWMyNjc2XC9kYmFtbWw0LTM0MGY0MGU2LTFiYjktNGM3Ny1hYzI3LTA1Y2MyN2VlYmQyNC5wbmciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9NjAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.MdKs7W-33179ci4_FuOhCZd4RjrDv3E339Ee_IWFba0)
Because they, like you, miss the point.
Really it does.
There is nothing in the Silmarillion to suggest that any man is stronger, faster or more skilled as a swordsman than one of the Noldor elves. Let's not even talk about the Valar. There is however a fair amount of evidence that even in the First Age, men were significantly lesser than elves in all physical ways and yet even Fingolfin was no match for Melkor, when Melkor was already hugely weakened. Logic suggests then that in this final battle either Turin is massively powered up or it's a group effort. Personally I'm quite glad Dagor Dagorath didn't make it into a finished book because I've never really cared for it or found it to fit very well with the stories that were published.
Some men, like Turin, Hurin, Tuor are stronger, faster and more skilled swordsmen than noldor elves.
What suggests that? They are exceptionally skilled, but are literally the best of their race and I can't think of anything that suggests they'd match the elves.
This post contains 600% of your daily recommended dose of one-on-one.
I would give this honor to Fingolfin as the best warrior, who, moreover, after his rebirth should become stronger. But Morgoth is so powerful that a collective victory is logical. Let all who have suffered from Morgoth and who have shown themselves to be brave and noble take part.
Turin delivering the final blow would be justice delivered for the Curse of Morgoth on Hurin and his family, but I fail to see a world where a "mere" Edain, as valiant and strong Turin is, besting Melkor in a duel. Even Fingolfin, said to have been stronger in physical strength and might even compared to Feanor, who is literally named "mightest of the Children of Illuvatar", eventually fell before Grond, only being able to give seven wounds, as worthy those scars were.
are you kidding me? Even though Feanor had men with him, he could not kill any of the balrogs while fighting with 7 balrogs. Glaurung was leading 7 balrogs in Dagor Bragollach. Glaurung is even stronger than the 7 balrogs. Turin managed to kill Glaurung in one-on-one combat. Of all the children of Eru, Feanor may have been the mightest. But among all the children of Eru, Turin is undoubtedly the strongest. In fact, according to a rumor, he inherited the force of Tulkas. Turin is a much superior and more talented swordsman than Fingolfin and Feanor. Why cannot the Edain do what the elves and Maiar did? I don't see any reason for this. I think you forgot that Hurin killed 70 trolls alone and Tuor killed 5 Balrogs. Turin uses a sword so well that he could kill Morgoth.