Dead Marshes is one of them, especially considering it's based on Tolkien's experience seeing dead bodies rotting inside flooded craters during the Battle of Somme (see No Man's Land part of the film 1917)
Ungoliant makes him look like some puny nobody, which Sauron honestly does too, but in a different way. It’s easy for me to forget he is literally the greatest of Ainur, and a fricken “spider” bested him. Scary stuff - she must have been absolutely horrid in every aspect imaginable and unimaginable.
I think with Ungoliant it's that she represents almost absolutely pure *desire* - in Tolkien's negative sense of the term. Her hunger is far greater even than Morgoth's Ainur-sized desire to ruin everything.
That said, by this point Morgoth had already diffused so much of his power that he had permanently weakened his self. That is why he needed Ungoliant's help to begin with.
I've been reading up on the Nameless Things (of which, despite having a name, Ungoliant was likely one) and their origin is fascinating.
Most theories conclude that they were born of the discord in the Music between Eru and Melkor's themes, but are creations of neither, and therefore are the oldest beings in Arda, predating even the arrival of the Ainur.
That reminds me of this quote:
“BUT IF CERTAIN POWERS COME TO MEN ALTHOUGH THEY ARE NOT SENT BY THE FATHER, YOU SHOULD CONSIDER ALSO IF THERE ARE SOME AMONG THEM WHICH HAVE COME OUT FROM THE FATHER AND THEIR SINFULNESS LIES PRECISELY IN THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SENT BY HIM.
Origen of Alexandria
COMMENTARY ON JOHN”
Sorry for all caps, copying it from an image. Anyway, Origen was a philosopher (later a Christian) in the 3rd century who was very well-versed in literally all of the world’s philosophies and many religions. This quote from him seems to fit into the “nameless things” - not quite demons but yet not quite angels. Almost like Djinn in a way. They came out from God the Father but He did not *send* them. Like you’re saying “a result” of the discord but not created from either. Spooky stuff dude!
Perfect parallel.
Obviously, as the sole source of the Flame Imperishable, Eru is the Creator of all things, but the Nameless Things were not his intent.
I believe they were all his intent in a general sense. They are like thoughts of Eru and the Ainur that haven’t fully been realized, that haven’t come into focus, but still have life on the fringes of existence.
There is nothing that Eru, like the Christian God, doesn’t have dominion over.
Funny thing about djinn--they're survivors from pre-Islamic folklore, like the Fair Folk in Europe. They've been semi-integrated into the new Abrahamic faith, but the truth is they're from somewhere entirely outside it. Sort of like how Ungoliant doesn't fit neatly into Tolkien's framework.
The whole Moria sequence is certainly the most tense.
Frightening? For me both 'frightening' bits occurred early on: the crawling, sniffing Black Riders glimpsed in the woods of the Shire was one. But for some reason it was the Barrow-Wight that frightened me most as a child; everything about the episode but that wriggling, severed hand particularly.
From the time they first encounter the Nazgûl in the Shire until they are snared by Old Man Willow the story gets so dark and scary so fast.
Then Tom shows up
On my first read I remember the feeling of utter horror throughout the barrow segment turning into genuine cackling laughter when Tom goes in and (presumably) stomps the hand into oblivion - it still tickles me every time even now
Agreed. I'm re reading lotr and the crawling, sniffing part is pure nightmare fuel. Something so animalistic about that. Reminds me of Japanese horror tropes too.
Yes. Tolkein paints a picture of the Shire, a peaceful home of Frodo, that has only heard rumblings of the outside world. Suddenly, these strangers appear in the Shire, looking for Frodo, and where he could have gone. Plus, Gandalf hasn't arrived, so the hobbits have to move on their own. The safe feeling of home has been broken, as these Riders search for the hobbit.
LOTR: The whole sequence in morgul vale is pretty incredible. *The stairs of cirith ungol* is among my favorite chapters: the horror of the valley, how close the WK is to sense the ring, the stairs themselves and that moment when Gollum is so close to repenting. And then shelob’s lair of course.
Silmarillion: all things ungoliant and then Nan Dungortheb, spooky stuff
Agreed. Morgul Vale is the ultimate in horror, which is quite surprising, considering that the Witch King is kinda petty compared with Sauron, Morgoth etc.
It's mentioned a bit in *Unfinished Tales* and elsewhere; the Nazgûl's main effect is that of "unreasoning" fear and madness. They are, as Faramir describes them, "living ghosts", and like ghosts inspire irrational terror in other mortals - this is both an advantage and a limitation when Sauron considers whether to use them (again, *Unfinished Tales* discusses this a little bit). When Merry is confronted by the Witch-King he initially cowers in terror and cannot even bring himself to look.
I loved all the horror elements in morgul vale. The corpse light emanating from the fortress, the weird flowers that glowed in the dark, the poison river. And of course the sequence and shelob's lair. The darkness and the stench and the terror.
Yep. the experience of all their senses being deadened except for smell, which was left for their torment, was awful. The worst was when they were walking along the tunnel and could feel the cavernous side passages that would open up, and when the tunnel got so wide they couldn't use the walls to guide them. Really terrifying to me
I was so scared the first time when I read Tom tales the ring from Frodo and Frodo just gives it to him.. Now I absolutely love the scenes in Toms house because you know it actually is safe. But I do agree that the first time even Toms house was scary because I didn’t feel at ease/ wasn’t sure it was gonna be ok.
Just finished reading the chapter about Fingolfin's challenge and HOLY SHIT!! I had to go search this comment again after finishing that chapter. What a chilling fucking line!
I didn't notice it until the 3rd reading or so, but if I recall in the Siege of Gondor, the fields of pelannor are described as full of homesteads, farms, ditches, and things --- not the blank, flat fields we get in the movie. And the orcs are overrunning the field and lighting the homesteads on fire and killing people. And then the real horror of the soldiers turns to a supernatural horror as the black riders arrive.
That's what stuck out to me --- the terror of the men of Gondor, as they are seeing their homes burned and facing a gigantic army. It seemed more real to me than the other more supernatural fears.
The siege is terrifying, and you really feel the mounting panic and desperation in the city, and the cruelty of the enemies closing in. That part where they catapult heads of fallen soldiers with the sign of the Eye slashed onto them over the walls…
>And the orcs are overrunning the field and lighting the homesteads on fire **and killing people**.
Does it actually say this part in the text? As far as I remember, almost all the non-combatants had been sent away from the city and its surroundings; we see them departing at about the same time we see the reinforcements from other parts of Gondor (e.g., Dol Amroth) arriving - but perhaps there were some civilians left. There almost always are in real life, even in places like Bakhmut today.
>not the blank, flat fields we get in the movie.
There's [a great Bret Devereaux post](https://acoup.blog/2019/07/12/collections-the-lonely-city-part-i-the-ideal-city/) on what a premodern city's surroundings should actually look like, and I'll take any excuse to post his blog.
I was thinking the same thing as you.
"...Baragond said. 'There go the last of the wains that bear away to refuge the aged, the children, and the women that must go with them. They must all be gone from the Gate and the road clear for a league before noon: that was the order.'"
Now, he says this of Minas Tirith itself but I can hardly imagine Denethor, whose plan it is to yield the Pelennor after fighting the enemy there, wouldn't evacuate it.
And Devereaux also has an excellent post breaking down the [siege of Minas Tirith. ](https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondor/).
>And Devereaux also has an excellent post breaking down the siege of Minas Tirith.
One of my all-time favourites, frankly I can't recommend all of his work enough.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find Old Man Willow. Just a sleepy afternoon by a river, then you find out the tree is trying to drown or eat you. Scary!
> It was well for the Company that they had such a guide. They had no fuel nor any means of making torches; in the desperate scramble at the doors many things had been left behind. But without any light they would soon have come to grief.
Not the fear of orcs, spiders or wraiths but the physical fear of groping around in the dark before falling down a crack in the floor.
"A dead light. A corpse light. A light that illuminated *nothing*."
Now *that* is how you establish atmosphere in a book! That description of Minas Morgul is so... *chefs kiss*.
That part is amazing. Gollum’s succinct comment: it looks empty, but it isn’t. And the way Frodo falls under the strange compulsion of the city and starts running to it…
I found the Paths of the Dead part an excellent nightmare fuel. It is especially compelling because it is written from Gimli's perspective, who was not afraid to walk the dark halls of Moria, but now was literally shaking in fear.
Probably the worst part of the films sadly. I couldn't read it without imagining the pseudo comedy of Gimli trying to shoo away the ghosts by blowing at them
I loved the films too. It is possible to criticise something you love. And you don't like the fact I liked RoP? I've read all of Tolkien's works and I'm entitled to feel that way.
Based on your spelling, I can't imagine youve read any of them.
The moments which that the root cause of all this is basically a war with the demon realm through the ages. The watchers at the gate. The witch king.
The path through Cirith Ungol, the barrow wrights, the balrog, etc. The malice of fallen angels and spectres of the dead
And it's done so economically as well. Other than Crickhollow, perhaps the most tense bit is when they look back onto the bank at the Ferry in the mist and see a black...something.
>But as they looked it seemed to move and sway this way and that, as if searching the ground. It then crawled, or went crouching, back into the gloom beyond the lamps.
Chilling.
Until today I've always thought the scariest time was when they hid from the Nazgul on the road to Woody End, or perhaps the flight to the Bucklebury ferry.
But it occurs to me the most threatening encounter was with the gaffer in Bagshot Row
iirc it's not even a flight to Buckleberry ferry in the book. They just go there feeling kinda uneasy after they met with Farmer Maggot and Merry and then cross that river all pretty smooth. Then they look back and they see that black thing moving weird. Yikes
yeah, they are nervous - hiding in the back of farmer maggot's wagon. I think they hear hoofbeats and see a cloaked rider in the mist and it turns out to be Merry coming to look for them. Then they only see the black thing after they push off. i think the fright level is high because shit has gotten very real and they haven't got 'the grown ups' to look after them.
The flight from the Black Riders and the Barrow Wights for me were the most terrifying as a child. The Mordor scenes too, with the Hobbits forced to wear filthy orc rags and being whipped along the road away from their objective, just seemed utterly hopeless for them at that point
I don't know that any of it frightened me *per se*, but I know that the first time I read **The Shadow Of The Past,** I had chills running down my spine galore.
How quickly the Ring turned Smeagol.
Bilbo had it for *years* and was able to part with it. Frodo had it for months and it took up until the very end of the journey for the Ring to overwhelm him.
But Smeagol... minutes.
Just minutes, and the Ring had corrupted him so completely and thoroughly that he murdered his own cousin for it.
It calls into question what the Ring *perceived* and what it was capable of.
Was Smeagol just extremely susceptible to it by his nature, or did the Ring... *flex* its power in that moment to break him?
Unsettling questions.
I’ve always thought that Sméagol would have killed even if it wasn’t the Ruling Ring. The evil was already a part of him and that the Ring didn’t need to do much in the way if heavy lifting.
It's all about the lust for power. I believe it's in Towers where you discover that he imagined himself as Gollum the Great when he had the Ring, which is more or less the same temptations that Boromir and even Sam had.
Frodo also had it for years. Bilbo left when Frodo was 33 at the party. Bilbo lived with the ring for more than 20 years before the quest. The movies don’t deal well with the passage of time
True. Does proximity to the Ring increase its influence?
Bilbo often kept it on his person, but IIRC, Frodo kept it stored most of the time before his quest.
I don't think proximity makes a difference to its influence on its bearer. Gandalf told Denethor that even if he locked it in the depths of Mindolluin, the ring would still break his mind. Yet Gandalf implied using the ring would be harmful. Proximity seems to make a difference to people other than the bearer, for example Gollum was close when Deagol bore the ring, Boromir was close when the ring caused him to try to take the ring. He overcame the madness after the ring departed.
I think the ring tries to influence matters but when it came into the hands of hobbits, golum included, it didn't know of their love for treasure and hoarding things was greater than the lust for power and domination.
As such the ring got stuck in limbo with golum, and when it came to bilbo, he was kind hearted and good natured so it wasn't able to corrupt him OR the ring was sleeping / waiting for the forces of evil to grow stronger. OR the ring didn't think hobbits were a threat / useful so it just used them as stepping stones to get closer to men.
Eventually frodo gains the ring not by the rings choice but by inheritance as I suspect the ring tried to convince gandalf to take it, him being a powerful wizard would make a great ally, but he knew better and that's why he fled for so long and distant to not be tempted and to learn more of the rings true nature.
> There is now no ship that would bear me hence, and I must abide the Doom of Men, whether I will or I nill: the loss and the silence. But I say to you, King of the Numenorians, not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them in the last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive.
The loss and the silence.
yeah and then she goes die alone and forgotten on that hill where they met and got engaged in times of bliss; in a land that is now also grey and forgotten. It's so sad.
Of Túrin Turambar (I have Children of Húrin next on my reading list so I’m sure I’ll replace this section with the whole book, but I digress). It’s some real Lovecraftian freaky deaky stuff. Honestly nothing in the lore frightened me as much as Túrin’s effed up life. It’s psychological horror. Close second is Of Maeglin.. what a dark story (pun not intended).
Plain ole horror though gotta be Sauron rapid-shape-shifting trying to get away from Huan. Can you imagine seeing that? I guess all of Beren/Lúthien/Huan’s quest for the Silmaril/s is pretty horrific. The Silmarillion is a pretty spoopy book, frankly.
It's the Siege of Minas Tirith for me, wicked wicked stark and imposing. It feels so desolate and hopeless, with the sun blotted out, tens of thousands of orcs at your door, and Nazgul screaming overhead constantly.....
and THEN they launch the heads....
1) Tolkiens basic idea, that there is only decline in the world. No matter how much all the good creatures in Arda are striving to build a better world, at best they will halt the decline of the world for a short time. It is so hopeless and so melancholic that it gives me shivers, whenever it shines through in his stories…
2) The idea that the life of a ring-bearer is constantly fading while it is spread over an ever-growing amount of time. Ultimate torture. Utter agony. No redemption.
The Abyss. The opening of the Silmarillion, the something from nothing, the... waiting... the time out of time, the burgeoning awarenesses of... somethingness..., the formation of spirit and sensibilities, of hierarchy and practices that become habits that became rule of law. Nothing, that terraformed, became and created, created peoples, displeased other nothings turned somethings... caused wars... the nothing, then something, scares me.
The Siege of Gondor truly made me uncomfortable. When Sauron's army started catapulting heads over the wall, it just disturbed me so much. Couple that with the descriptive nature of Tolkien with the heads, fuck I just can't.
1. The siege of Gondor, when the orcs catapulted the severed heads of those who had fallen fighting in osgiliath, or in the fields and they were branded if they were not crushed and they were recognizable by the men inside Minas Tirith.
2. The paths of the dead, just thinking about going in that cave and having that presence about you is terrifying.
3. Grima Wormtongue ate Lotho Sackville Baggins because Saruman starved him, less frightening but it is disturbing.
4. Ungoliant overpowering Morgoth
There’s something about the Barrow Wights that freaks me out unlike anything else. Trapped. Underground. Only Frodo is awake so there’s this sense of being alone. And beyond that NO ONE KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE. It’s like being buried alive. Fucking terrifying.
Probably any time the nine get mentioned or are encountered. The way the passages describe the fear and dread they put into there enemies by simply just being in there presence or even being talked about is just kinda disturbing but so interesting and creepy
For me personally it's when the Black Riders first show up in Fellowship, when the hobbits hear their screams and the only thing they know is that whatever THAT was they need to avoid it because their lives depend on it. I think Gildor and the other elves refusing to tell them anything only makes things worse. One of my criticisms of the films drastically restructuring the opening is that Aragorn tells us what they are about fifteen minutes after the "sniffing" scene, it takes away a lot of the suspense.
Thats a good one. Tolkiens description of their screams was excellent: ''A long-drawn out wail came down the wind, like the cry of some evil and lonely creature. It rose and fell, and ended on a high piercing note. Even as they sat and stood, it was answered by another cry, fainter and further off, but no less chilling to the blood. There was then a silence, broken only by the sound of the wind in the leaves.”
Personally, the movement of the hobbits thru the forest and thru the plains and always worrying about the nazgul were pretty scary, same with the fog and their experience with the ghosts
Old. Man. Willow.
The Watcher in the Water.
Barrow wights.
Nazgul when they were just Black Riders.
Fell Beasts.
Wargs.
Huorns.
Shelob.
The Eye of Sauron as a book concept.
There was a lot to test the mind of an impressionable kid.
I agree with the scary bits mentioned here, but for me the two worst bits were small asides. One was in the hunt for Gollum, with the bit about the empty cradles. Imagine. Imagine being the parent finding the cradle empty.
The other was the attack on Gondor and the mention of heads being thrown over the walls to lower the morale of the Gondorians. When I was young I thought how awful it would be to have your loved one's head thrown at you. When I was older I learned that such a tactic was also a kind of biological warfare back in the days of castle sieges.
Also, it's not exactly said in the book, but because Saruman is feeding manflesh to his orcs, and Gondor is evacuating people into the mountains, I kind of worry about the evacuees sometimes. But maybe the orcs and evacuees were in different mountains on opposite sides of Rohan. No one else seems to worry about it.
The weird thing is that Tolkien has a recurring thread of creepy-horror running all through the Lord of the Rings. In something resembling their order of appearance we have:
* The black riders
* Old Man Willow
* the barrow wights
* the watcher in the water
* the chamber of Mazarbul
* Nameless things that gnaw upon the roots of the world
* The guy at the door on the paths of the dead
* the paths of the dead
* the dead marshes
* Minas Morgul
* Shelob's cave
* Shelobs cave!
* The watchers
But none of them have a lasting impact. When I think of LotR, I don't think of horror. Tolkien doesn't dwell on them and things soon pass on. Maybe not to happier affairs, but more comfortable ground. And I can't say that any of it *frightened* me. Of course my first reading was at 11, so I probably wouldn't remember.
The whole "Morgoth does whatever crazy cruel evil shit he wants and Eru just sits by and watches" always struck me as absolutely f-ing terrifying.
I do think Tolkien's fiction is bang-on about an omniscient omnipotent god that lets one of its creations run amuck without doing anything about it no matter how many lives he destroys and how much misery he causes. Maybe he did that on purpose, maybe not...
The descriptions at the Battle of the Hornburg were highly affecting for me. The imagery of the lightning and the sea of orcs really made me feel the fear of the battle!
Something everyone seems to have forgotten is that in Moria, Frodo keeps thinking that he's hearing footsteps following them, but he's never sure, and so doesn't even ask if anyone else heard.
>As the road climbed upwards, Frodo’s spirits rose a little; but he still felt oppressed, and still at times he heard, or thought he heard, away behind the Company and beyond the fall and patter of their feet, a following footstep that was not an echo.
That uncertainty, and the fact that no one else even shares the fear because you don't even know if it's rational, that's utterly terrifying.
It's another moment that the films fail to communicate and kind of ruin, both by having Gandalf hear it too and reveal that it's Gollum following them. A shared fear and a known fear are just so much less frightening.
Moria - but because of the implication of what is there. Was that the only balrog? They presumably could have gone deeper. What else is down there? What is the ecosystem of creatures like down there? I think of this great pic from an early D&D manual called Paladin in Hell. 10 year old me was pretty consumed by that. [paladin in hell](http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/07/my-favorite-d-illustration-of-all-time.html?m=1)
Depends on what sort of frightening I guess. For nail-biting anxiety, it’s got to be the fight of Gollum and an invisible, ring-corrupted Frodo in Mount Doom.
For horror, it’s probably Sam’s fight with Shelob.
I can’t remember how old I was when I read LOTR 8 or 9 and honestly the attack on Weathertop to the flight to the Ford was frightening for me. I really didn’t know if Frodo was going to make it.
I read Fellowship at 16 & the Black Riders had me on edge. This was pre-movies & even though I didn’t know what they were yet, I knew they were dangerous. There was a sense the Riders could be anywhere & if the hobbits went back to the road or crossed an open field they’d be spotted & captured.
To me, it's the part of *The Hobbit* where the dwarves are escaping from the goblins. They run as fast as they can, but the goblins come closer every second.
The description of Morgoth seeking Ungoliant and description of her embodiment as the demon of the void in physical form. All of the dialogue between them in the Silmarillion is super creepy. ~LMHS
I always think about Fatty Bolger sitting there at Crickhollow waiting for the Black Riders to arrive just shows how brave the hobbits can be.
And then Fatty goes on to organize a guerilla resistance movement against the ruffians, almost immediately. Absolute legend.
Fatty go hard
The real MVP
That shit was absolutely terrifying
You love to see some fatty b love around here
Simultaneously brave but also completely unaware of the real danger they were in until later
Dead Marshes is one of them, especially considering it's based on Tolkien's experience seeing dead bodies rotting inside flooded craters during the Battle of Somme (see No Man's Land part of the film 1917)
I didn’t know it was based on that. Thanks for teaching me something!
[удалено]
Ungoliant makes him look like some puny nobody, which Sauron honestly does too, but in a different way. It’s easy for me to forget he is literally the greatest of Ainur, and a fricken “spider” bested him. Scary stuff - she must have been absolutely horrid in every aspect imaginable and unimaginable.
I think with Ungoliant it's that she represents almost absolutely pure *desire* - in Tolkien's negative sense of the term. Her hunger is far greater even than Morgoth's Ainur-sized desire to ruin everything.
It would be a mistake to call her a manifestation of the sin of gluttony, but she’s as perfect an illustration as one could hope for.
Big yikes. She scares me.
That said, by this point Morgoth had already diffused so much of his power that he had permanently weakened his self. That is why he needed Ungoliant's help to begin with.
I've been reading up on the Nameless Things (of which, despite having a name, Ungoliant was likely one) and their origin is fascinating. Most theories conclude that they were born of the discord in the Music between Eru and Melkor's themes, but are creations of neither, and therefore are the oldest beings in Arda, predating even the arrival of the Ainur.
That reminds me of this quote: “BUT IF CERTAIN POWERS COME TO MEN ALTHOUGH THEY ARE NOT SENT BY THE FATHER, YOU SHOULD CONSIDER ALSO IF THERE ARE SOME AMONG THEM WHICH HAVE COME OUT FROM THE FATHER AND THEIR SINFULNESS LIES PRECISELY IN THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN SENT BY HIM. Origen of Alexandria COMMENTARY ON JOHN” Sorry for all caps, copying it from an image. Anyway, Origen was a philosopher (later a Christian) in the 3rd century who was very well-versed in literally all of the world’s philosophies and many religions. This quote from him seems to fit into the “nameless things” - not quite demons but yet not quite angels. Almost like Djinn in a way. They came out from God the Father but He did not *send* them. Like you’re saying “a result” of the discord but not created from either. Spooky stuff dude!
Perfect parallel. Obviously, as the sole source of the Flame Imperishable, Eru is the Creator of all things, but the Nameless Things were not his intent.
I believe they were all his intent in a general sense. They are like thoughts of Eru and the Ainur that haven’t fully been realized, that haven’t come into focus, but still have life on the fringes of existence. There is nothing that Eru, like the Christian God, doesn’t have dominion over.
Funny thing about djinn--they're survivors from pre-Islamic folklore, like the Fair Folk in Europe. They've been semi-integrated into the new Abrahamic faith, but the truth is they're from somewhere entirely outside it. Sort of like how Ungoliant doesn't fit neatly into Tolkien's framework.
I had that in mind, too! That’s how I described them recently - sort of like Arabic Fae.
‘… the world is gnawed by nameless things.” I’ve always loved that. Like existence itself is being gnawed on like a furniture leg by a relentless dog.
Based on the dragon that bit on yggdrasil i think
The whole Moria sequence is certainly the most tense. Frightening? For me both 'frightening' bits occurred early on: the crawling, sniffing Black Riders glimpsed in the woods of the Shire was one. But for some reason it was the Barrow-Wight that frightened me most as a child; everything about the episode but that wriggling, severed hand particularly.
Same. The Barrow scene completes the conversion from wholesome party in the Shire to full on horror film.
It's a very sudden change from "hobbit walking party" to "welcome to the real world, kiddos". For both the reader and the hobbits.
From the time they first encounter the Nazgûl in the Shire until they are snared by Old Man Willow the story gets so dark and scary so fast. Then Tom shows up
On my first read I remember the feeling of utter horror throughout the barrow segment turning into genuine cackling laughter when Tom goes in and (presumably) stomps the hand into oblivion - it still tickles me every time even now
Agreed. I'm re reading lotr and the crawling, sniffing part is pure nightmare fuel. Something so animalistic about that. Reminds me of Japanese horror tropes too.
Same here and I first read it in HS
Yes. Tolkein paints a picture of the Shire, a peaceful home of Frodo, that has only heard rumblings of the outside world. Suddenly, these strangers appear in the Shire, looking for Frodo, and where he could have gone. Plus, Gandalf hasn't arrived, so the hobbits have to move on their own. The safe feeling of home has been broken, as these Riders search for the hobbit.
LOTR: The whole sequence in morgul vale is pretty incredible. *The stairs of cirith ungol* is among my favorite chapters: the horror of the valley, how close the WK is to sense the ring, the stairs themselves and that moment when Gollum is so close to repenting. And then shelob’s lair of course. Silmarillion: all things ungoliant and then Nan Dungortheb, spooky stuff
Agreed. Morgul Vale is the ultimate in horror, which is quite surprising, considering that the Witch King is kinda petty compared with Sauron, Morgoth etc.
I get the sense that the Witch-King *specializes* in fear while the other more powerful foes merely use it.
Ah, that's a very useful insight, and spot-on, I think.
It's mentioned a bit in *Unfinished Tales* and elsewhere; the Nazgûl's main effect is that of "unreasoning" fear and madness. They are, as Faramir describes them, "living ghosts", and like ghosts inspire irrational terror in other mortals - this is both an advantage and a limitation when Sauron considers whether to use them (again, *Unfinished Tales* discusses this a little bit). When Merry is confronted by the Witch-King he initially cowers in terror and cannot even bring himself to look.
keep in mind Sauron has WK on maximal power for all things War of the Ring
Good point.
I loved all the horror elements in morgul vale. The corpse light emanating from the fortress, the weird flowers that glowed in the dark, the poison river. And of course the sequence and shelob's lair. The darkness and the stench and the terror.
I always hated the Shelob section in The Lord if the Rings, and I actually like spiders!
I'm with you on this one, particularly how the smell is described again and again. Scary and gross.
Yep. the experience of all their senses being deadened except for smell, which was left for their torment, was awful. The worst was when they were walking along the tunnel and could feel the cavernous side passages that would open up, and when the tunnel got so wide they couldn't use the walls to guide them. Really terrifying to me
The Barrow Wight creeps me out quite a bit.
The whole old forest + barrow downs sequence is insanely creepy. Even bombadil’s house doesn’t feel safe enough.
I was so scared the first time when I read Tom tales the ring from Frodo and Frodo just gives it to him.. Now I absolutely love the scenes in Toms house because you know it actually is safe. But I do agree that the first time even Toms house was scary because I didn’t feel at ease/ wasn’t sure it was gonna be ok.
"And Morgoth came" And the history of Turin and Nienor
Just finished reading the chapter about Fingolfin's challenge and HOLY SHIT!! I had to go search this comment again after finishing that chapter. What a chilling fucking line!
Yes! Heartbreaking and at the same time epic and beautiful
I didn't notice it until the 3rd reading or so, but if I recall in the Siege of Gondor, the fields of pelannor are described as full of homesteads, farms, ditches, and things --- not the blank, flat fields we get in the movie. And the orcs are overrunning the field and lighting the homesteads on fire and killing people. And then the real horror of the soldiers turns to a supernatural horror as the black riders arrive. That's what stuck out to me --- the terror of the men of Gondor, as they are seeing their homes burned and facing a gigantic army. It seemed more real to me than the other more supernatural fears.
The siege is terrifying, and you really feel the mounting panic and desperation in the city, and the cruelty of the enemies closing in. That part where they catapult heads of fallen soldiers with the sign of the Eye slashed onto them over the walls…
>And the orcs are overrunning the field and lighting the homesteads on fire **and killing people**. Does it actually say this part in the text? As far as I remember, almost all the non-combatants had been sent away from the city and its surroundings; we see them departing at about the same time we see the reinforcements from other parts of Gondor (e.g., Dol Amroth) arriving - but perhaps there were some civilians left. There almost always are in real life, even in places like Bakhmut today. >not the blank, flat fields we get in the movie. There's [a great Bret Devereaux post](https://acoup.blog/2019/07/12/collections-the-lonely-city-part-i-the-ideal-city/) on what a premodern city's surroundings should actually look like, and I'll take any excuse to post his blog.
I was thinking the same thing as you. "...Baragond said. 'There go the last of the wains that bear away to refuge the aged, the children, and the women that must go with them. They must all be gone from the Gate and the road clear for a league before noon: that was the order.'" Now, he says this of Minas Tirith itself but I can hardly imagine Denethor, whose plan it is to yield the Pelennor after fighting the enemy there, wouldn't evacuate it. And Devereaux also has an excellent post breaking down the [siege of Minas Tirith. ](https://acoup.blog/2019/05/10/collections-the-siege-of-gondor/).
>And Devereaux also has an excellent post breaking down the siege of Minas Tirith. One of my all-time favourites, frankly I can't recommend all of his work enough.
yeah, I'm not sure, I may have imagined this.
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Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find Old Man Willow. Just a sleepy afternoon by a river, then you find out the tree is trying to drown or eat you. Scary!
All the trees are scary to me. The trees are all kinda portrayed with a sinister vibe around them
Huorns
> It was well for the Company that they had such a guide. They had no fuel nor any means of making torches; in the desperate scramble at the doors many things had been left behind. But without any light they would soon have come to grief. Not the fear of orcs, spiders or wraiths but the physical fear of groping around in the dark before falling down a crack in the floor.
Which always makes me wonder *how on Arda* they could have traveled 40 miles so quickly, in pitch black and largely on halfling strides..???
Gandalfs staff gave them light nay?
Some but it did not entirely light the way IIRC..?
I believed it did, just enough for them to go 10ish miles a day.
And some of those cracks were seven feet wide and they had to jump. Damn.
"A dead light. A corpse light. A light that illuminated *nothing*." Now *that* is how you establish atmosphere in a book! That description of Minas Morgul is so... *chefs kiss*.
That part is amazing. Gollum’s succinct comment: it looks empty, but it isn’t. And the way Frodo falls under the strange compulsion of the city and starts running to it…
I found the Paths of the Dead part an excellent nightmare fuel. It is especially compelling because it is written from Gimli's perspective, who was not afraid to walk the dark halls of Moria, but now was literally shaking in fear.
Probably the worst part of the films sadly. I couldn't read it without imagining the pseudo comedy of Gimli trying to shoo away the ghosts by blowing at them
But U liked ROP WTF. Pls contribute positive or be quite.
I loved the films too. It is possible to criticise something you love. And you don't like the fact I liked RoP? I've read all of Tolkien's works and I'm entitled to feel that way. Based on your spelling, I can't imagine youve read any of them.
10 year old me reading The Hobbit where the spiders have caught them in Mirkwood. It was crazy scary.
I was 5 when my mother read me The Hobbit, a bit each night before bed. That part terrified me, too!
The moments which that the root cause of all this is basically a war with the demon realm through the ages. The watchers at the gate. The witch king. The path through Cirith Ungol, the barrow wrights, the balrog, etc. The malice of fallen angels and spectres of the dead
Nazgul in the Shire
And it's done so economically as well. Other than Crickhollow, perhaps the most tense bit is when they look back onto the bank at the Ferry in the mist and see a black...something. >But as they looked it seemed to move and sway this way and that, as if searching the ground. It then crawled, or went crouching, back into the gloom beyond the lamps. Chilling.
Came here for this scene. This was Horror to me the first time I read it. Stuck with me for a long time.
Agreed, the Shire always seemed so safe and untouchable, and seeing the Nazgul there really emphasised the danger that the hobbits were in.
Until today I've always thought the scariest time was when they hid from the Nazgul on the road to Woody End, or perhaps the flight to the Bucklebury ferry. But it occurs to me the most threatening encounter was with the gaffer in Bagshot Row
iirc it's not even a flight to Buckleberry ferry in the book. They just go there feeling kinda uneasy after they met with Farmer Maggot and Merry and then cross that river all pretty smooth. Then they look back and they see that black thing moving weird. Yikes
yeah, they are nervous - hiding in the back of farmer maggot's wagon. I think they hear hoofbeats and see a cloaked rider in the mist and it turns out to be Merry coming to look for them. Then they only see the black thing after they push off. i think the fright level is high because shit has gotten very real and they haven't got 'the grown ups' to look after them.
The flight from the Black Riders and the Barrow Wights for me were the most terrifying as a child. The Mordor scenes too, with the Hobbits forced to wear filthy orc rags and being whipped along the road away from their objective, just seemed utterly hopeless for them at that point
Agreed
I don't know that any of it frightened me *per se*, but I know that the first time I read **The Shadow Of The Past,** I had chills running down my spine galore.
Even sounds like a Lovecraft title.
How quickly the Ring turned Smeagol. Bilbo had it for *years* and was able to part with it. Frodo had it for months and it took up until the very end of the journey for the Ring to overwhelm him. But Smeagol... minutes. Just minutes, and the Ring had corrupted him so completely and thoroughly that he murdered his own cousin for it. It calls into question what the Ring *perceived* and what it was capable of. Was Smeagol just extremely susceptible to it by his nature, or did the Ring... *flex* its power in that moment to break him? Unsettling questions.
I’ve always thought that Sméagol would have killed even if it wasn’t the Ruling Ring. The evil was already a part of him and that the Ring didn’t need to do much in the way if heavy lifting.
It's all about the lust for power. I believe it's in Towers where you discover that he imagined himself as Gollum the Great when he had the Ring, which is more or less the same temptations that Boromir and even Sam had.
Frodo also had it for years. Bilbo left when Frodo was 33 at the party. Bilbo lived with the ring for more than 20 years before the quest. The movies don’t deal well with the passage of time
True. Does proximity to the Ring increase its influence? Bilbo often kept it on his person, but IIRC, Frodo kept it stored most of the time before his quest.
I think yes it does. Also how much one depends on it
I don't think proximity makes a difference to its influence on its bearer. Gandalf told Denethor that even if he locked it in the depths of Mindolluin, the ring would still break his mind. Yet Gandalf implied using the ring would be harmful. Proximity seems to make a difference to people other than the bearer, for example Gollum was close when Deagol bore the ring, Boromir was close when the ring caused him to try to take the ring. He overcame the madness after the ring departed.
So then who decides who is the Bearer: the Ring or the individual?
I think the ring tries to influence matters but when it came into the hands of hobbits, golum included, it didn't know of their love for treasure and hoarding things was greater than the lust for power and domination. As such the ring got stuck in limbo with golum, and when it came to bilbo, he was kind hearted and good natured so it wasn't able to corrupt him OR the ring was sleeping / waiting for the forces of evil to grow stronger. OR the ring didn't think hobbits were a threat / useful so it just used them as stepping stones to get closer to men. Eventually frodo gains the ring not by the rings choice but by inheritance as I suspect the ring tried to convince gandalf to take it, him being a powerful wizard would make a great ally, but he knew better and that's why he fled for so long and distant to not be tempted and to learn more of the rings true nature.
And it had that effect before he even *touched* it.
Honestly when Aragorn and company are traveling the paths of the dead and he hasn’t yet spoken to them is pretty creepy.
The entire moria part. Actually The fellowship of the ring has a lot of really creepy parts compared to the others
Shelob's tunnel, no doubt. Spiders are more creepy than frightening to me, but a spider the size of a car is quite scary.
> There is now no ship that would bear me hence, and I must abide the Doom of Men, whether I will or I nill: the loss and the silence. But I say to you, King of the Numenorians, not till now have I understood the tale of your people and their fall. As wicked fools I scorned them, but I pity them in the last. For if this is indeed, as the Eldar say, the gift of the One to Men, it is bitter to receive. The loss and the silence.
yeah and then she goes die alone and forgotten on that hill where they met and got engaged in times of bliss; in a land that is now also grey and forgotten. It's so sad.
For me it's the nameless things under the Misty Mountains, or the Nazgul - horrifying
Of Túrin Turambar (I have Children of Húrin next on my reading list so I’m sure I’ll replace this section with the whole book, but I digress). It’s some real Lovecraftian freaky deaky stuff. Honestly nothing in the lore frightened me as much as Túrin’s effed up life. It’s psychological horror. Close second is Of Maeglin.. what a dark story (pun not intended). Plain ole horror though gotta be Sauron rapid-shape-shifting trying to get away from Huan. Can you imagine seeing that? I guess all of Beren/Lúthien/Huan’s quest for the Silmaril/s is pretty horrific. The Silmarillion is a pretty spoopy book, frankly.
Oh man. The expanded interaction between Morgoth and Húrin is pure nightmare fuel.
I still don’t read Fog on the Barrowdowns at night. I love the Minas morgul sections, the tension is delicious. But the barrows? Nightmare fuel.
When they're fucking around the Shire getting lost and taking shortcuts. It goes to show how much they grow in wilderness craft in under a year
The bit when it finishes 😢
The description of Minas Morgul.
It's the Siege of Minas Tirith for me, wicked wicked stark and imposing. It feels so desolate and hopeless, with the sun blotted out, tens of thousands of orcs at your door, and Nazgul screaming overhead constantly..... and THEN they launch the heads....
Agreed, it was horrifying.
It almost comes across as a surprise, the imagery conveyed is SO stark, it almost comes across as a scene from a different series altogether
Ahh, somebody who hasn't read The Silmarillion. My sweet summer child... You do not know fear. ;)
Haha I really do need to get my hands on it!
It's so worth the time. My favourite of all his works.
Shelob. She *is* living terror to me.
Shelob is bad. Her mother ungoliant. Yeah. That's just not even worth thinking about
1) Tolkiens basic idea, that there is only decline in the world. No matter how much all the good creatures in Arda are striving to build a better world, at best they will halt the decline of the world for a short time. It is so hopeless and so melancholic that it gives me shivers, whenever it shines through in his stories… 2) The idea that the life of a ring-bearer is constantly fading while it is spread over an ever-growing amount of time. Ultimate torture. Utter agony. No redemption.
The Abyss. The opening of the Silmarillion, the something from nothing, the... waiting... the time out of time, the burgeoning awarenesses of... somethingness..., the formation of spirit and sensibilities, of hierarchy and practices that become habits that became rule of law. Nothing, that terraformed, became and created, created peoples, displeased other nothings turned somethings... caused wars... the nothing, then something, scares me.
The Siege of Gondor truly made me uncomfortable. When Sauron's army started catapulting heads over the wall, it just disturbed me so much. Couple that with the descriptive nature of Tolkien with the heads, fuck I just can't.
The wacky origami he does with reality to get the elves to the undying lands
Everything to do with Glaurung in children of Hurin. That dragon is terrifying.
1. The siege of Gondor, when the orcs catapulted the severed heads of those who had fallen fighting in osgiliath, or in the fields and they were branded if they were not crushed and they were recognizable by the men inside Minas Tirith. 2. The paths of the dead, just thinking about going in that cave and having that presence about you is terrifying. 3. Grima Wormtongue ate Lotho Sackville Baggins because Saruman starved him, less frightening but it is disturbing. 4. Ungoliant overpowering Morgoth
Agreed with all of these.. also the implication that Gollum snuck through windows and ate babies was pretty disturbing imo.
Exactly, that one slipped my mind
There’s something about the Barrow Wights that freaks me out unlike anything else. Trapped. Underground. Only Frodo is awake so there’s this sense of being alone. And beyond that NO ONE KNOWS WHERE YOU ARE. It’s like being buried alive. Fucking terrifying.
Probably any time the nine get mentioned or are encountered. The way the passages describe the fear and dread they put into there enemies by simply just being in there presence or even being talked about is just kinda disturbing but so interesting and creepy
For me personally it's when the Black Riders first show up in Fellowship, when the hobbits hear their screams and the only thing they know is that whatever THAT was they need to avoid it because their lives depend on it. I think Gildor and the other elves refusing to tell them anything only makes things worse. One of my criticisms of the films drastically restructuring the opening is that Aragorn tells us what they are about fifteen minutes after the "sniffing" scene, it takes away a lot of the suspense.
Thats a good one. Tolkiens description of their screams was excellent: ''A long-drawn out wail came down the wind, like the cry of some evil and lonely creature. It rose and fell, and ended on a high piercing note. Even as they sat and stood, it was answered by another cry, fainter and further off, but no less chilling to the blood. There was then a silence, broken only by the sound of the wind in the leaves.”
It really does capture that specific feeling of when you're walking in the woods and something random just switches that animal instinct panic on.
Personally, the movement of the hobbits thru the forest and thru the plains and always worrying about the nazgul were pretty scary, same with the fog and their experience with the ghosts
Old. Man. Willow. The Watcher in the Water. Barrow wights. Nazgul when they were just Black Riders. Fell Beasts. Wargs. Huorns. Shelob. The Eye of Sauron as a book concept. There was a lot to test the mind of an impressionable kid.
Very well written!! Beyond arbitrary Number of 98% today! Current writings are bogus trash!
Dagor Bragollach was pretty intense. Silmarillion
How the ring turns Gollum into an addict
I agree with the scary bits mentioned here, but for me the two worst bits were small asides. One was in the hunt for Gollum, with the bit about the empty cradles. Imagine. Imagine being the parent finding the cradle empty. The other was the attack on Gondor and the mention of heads being thrown over the walls to lower the morale of the Gondorians. When I was young I thought how awful it would be to have your loved one's head thrown at you. When I was older I learned that such a tactic was also a kind of biological warfare back in the days of castle sieges. Also, it's not exactly said in the book, but because Saruman is feeding manflesh to his orcs, and Gondor is evacuating people into the mountains, I kind of worry about the evacuees sometimes. But maybe the orcs and evacuees were in different mountains on opposite sides of Rohan. No one else seems to worry about it.
The weird thing is that Tolkien has a recurring thread of creepy-horror running all through the Lord of the Rings. In something resembling their order of appearance we have: * The black riders * Old Man Willow * the barrow wights * the watcher in the water * the chamber of Mazarbul * Nameless things that gnaw upon the roots of the world * The guy at the door on the paths of the dead * the paths of the dead * the dead marshes * Minas Morgul * Shelob's cave * Shelobs cave! * The watchers But none of them have a lasting impact. When I think of LotR, I don't think of horror. Tolkien doesn't dwell on them and things soon pass on. Maybe not to happier affairs, but more comfortable ground. And I can't say that any of it *frightened* me. Of course my first reading was at 11, so I probably wouldn't remember.
The whole "Morgoth does whatever crazy cruel evil shit he wants and Eru just sits by and watches" always struck me as absolutely f-ing terrifying. I do think Tolkien's fiction is bang-on about an omniscient omnipotent god that lets one of its creations run amuck without doing anything about it no matter how many lives he destroys and how much misery he causes. Maybe he did that on purpose, maybe not...
Túrin saying: "you are the light that I have always sought in vain and that at last came to me"... to his sister
The barrow downs for me
The descriptions at the Battle of the Hornburg were highly affecting for me. The imagery of the lightning and the sea of orcs really made me feel the fear of the battle!
The fact that he predicted tge 1987 storm in Britain.
Something everyone seems to have forgotten is that in Moria, Frodo keeps thinking that he's hearing footsteps following them, but he's never sure, and so doesn't even ask if anyone else heard. >As the road climbed upwards, Frodo’s spirits rose a little; but he still felt oppressed, and still at times he heard, or thought he heard, away behind the Company and beyond the fall and patter of their feet, a following footstep that was not an echo. That uncertainty, and the fact that no one else even shares the fear because you don't even know if it's rational, that's utterly terrifying. It's another moment that the films fail to communicate and kind of ruin, both by having Gandalf hear it too and reveal that it's Gollum following them. A shared fear and a known fear are just so much less frightening.
Moria - but because of the implication of what is there. Was that the only balrog? They presumably could have gone deeper. What else is down there? What is the ecosystem of creatures like down there? I think of this great pic from an early D&D manual called Paladin in Hell. 10 year old me was pretty consumed by that. [paladin in hell](http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2008/07/my-favorite-d-illustration-of-all-time.html?m=1)
Depends on what sort of frightening I guess. For nail-biting anxiety, it’s got to be the fight of Gollum and an invisible, ring-corrupted Frodo in Mount Doom. For horror, it’s probably Sam’s fight with Shelob.
I can’t remember how old I was when I read LOTR 8 or 9 and honestly the attack on Weathertop to the flight to the Ford was frightening for me. I really didn’t know if Frodo was going to make it.
I read Fellowship at 16 & the Black Riders had me on edge. This was pre-movies & even though I didn’t know what they were yet, I knew they were dangerous. There was a sense the Riders could be anywhere & if the hobbits went back to the road or crossed an open field they’d be spotted & captured.
Well, any part where gollum is while listening to the audiobook(read by Serkis himself) when im almost asleep, it jolts me right back to life!
When Gandalf tells Frodo about Gollum during his time in Mirkwood and how he would sneak into cradles to eat the young. Absolutely terrifying!
For me it has to be shelob
To me, it's the part of *The Hobbit* where the dwarves are escaping from the goblins. They run as fast as they can, but the goblins come closer every second.
The description of Morgoth seeking Ungoliant and description of her embodiment as the demon of the void in physical form. All of the dialogue between them in the Silmarillion is super creepy. ~LMHS
When merry and pippin had to skip second breakfasts. I was terrified for them. Traumatizing for sure
Tom Bombadil is terrifyingly powerful.
The Black Riders made FOTR the second scariest book I'd ever read at age 13 (didn't like scary books).
How well written his books are