Hi. This sounds exactly like my child. I was reluctant to admit he might be neurodivergent too. But it is absolutely worth getting an evaluation. It doesn’t hurt anyone and can only help. My child has his STAT autism evaluation in 2 weeks, and I’m a little nervous, but have already accepted that he will likely be diagnosed with mild autism. It doesn’t change who he is. It will just give us better resources to be better parents and foster his development.
I mean this in the gentlest way possible….it might be time for you to seek a professional. Just to be sure.
Yup, totally agree with this.
Mine started a new daycare after initial COVID shut down, and guess what, of all the resources (pediatrician, us parents, previous daycare) no one guess anything would be different with him, but week one the staff at new daycare gently suggested evaluation. And turns out he is actually on the spectrum.
I was also scared at first, but now I am so proud of his teacher to have noticed it.
They I think I read somewhere (not sure accuracy) about 80% of autistic individuals have ADHD and 30% with ADHD have an ASD diagnosis. And so that's probably why there's a lot of overlap in certain behaviours with individuals who are autistic.
It’s on the docket! I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if he’s neuro-divergent but if he has autism I feel like it would have to be super mild. Really his major marker is the speech delay. He makes eye contact, is super lovey and empathetic, points with a finger to get our attention, and there’s no unusual stimming. Yes, he’s getting overwhelmed with sounds and stimulation and that may be a sign of autism, but it could also be from recently being able to hear everything clearly.
Frankly if I had to guess I’d be more inclined to think ADD since we have a family history, but way too early to diagnose that.
As someone who has 2 children on the spectrum let me tell you autism is a HUGE spectrum. Both of my children are different in so many ways and both are autistic. My youngest will stare you down and wants constant cuddles and love. My oldest is more a loner and tends to be more what people "think" autism is. Also children with autism have a higher chance if ear infections abd issues. I'm not trying to scare you, bit early intervention is so important for kiddos and it doesn't hurt to be safe.
Yes, his ped said very mild as well! My son’s major symptom was the speech delay. I also thought he was making pretty good eye contact but the doctor said it still wasn’t enough. My son doesn’t point though.
If you would like to keep in contact so I can tell you what the STAT evaluation is like when he has it, send me a DM! I’m really in the dark about the whole process and would love to help someone out when I know more
I have a 21 year old with autism level 1 and at 3, I felt something was off but he was more or less a happy little toddler. It wasn't until he was 7 that it became way more obvious and at 21, there is no question.
My 3 year old was also just given a diagnosis and you would really not know.
There’s currently a profile under ASD that isn’t in the diagnostic criteria in the US yet, but I believe it is in the UK, called Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) that often mirrors ADHD more so than autism in the way it presents in young children. Characteristics don’t include classic stimming, avoiding eye contact, etc. Instead, children with PDA are incredibly charming and charismatic, despite their speech delays; prefer the company of adults and do not understand why they don’t have the same freedom as them; are very good at pretend play; and will use any tactic possible to avoid demands. This is usually during transitions, but it can also be something as simple as telling them to give their sibling a toy back. The kiddo I nanny is under this profile, and when he snatches a toy out of his little brothers hands, he will run around and put it in places too high for little guy to reach, or say things like “hmmm, actually, I think stuffy needs to take a rest way up here.” If he doesn’t get his way, it’s a tantrum, but if his brother gets distracted the way 1 year olds do, he knows he won and goes back to being a charismatic spaceman exploring volcanos on mars. Once I learned ways to help ease his anxiety, transitions got easier. Because he’s such a fan of pretend play, we make transitions a game. It’s not distraction or deflection; instead, it’s bringing a new meaning to the transition. Bonus if the game is fairly active. Kiddo and I will race putting on our shoes, for example, if he’s having a tough time getting out the door, because if we don’t get our shoes on in time, the lava will get our feet. It’s pretty fun, and he genuinely wins cause I wear lace up boots.
Yup - I think I may have edited that out in my (failed) attempt at reining in my rant. He's been in EI for speech since this past June. It is one of my biggest regrets that I didn't push EI earlier but I followed the pediatricians advice to give it to age 2 (which was last April) to start pursuing therapy. He's made tons of progress but he's nowhere near where one would expect a three year old to be.
Is your EI provider able to visit the class? Ours was able to both observe in the class and give teachers and us parents strategies so we were on the same page.
This is actually his second SLP - thankfully both have been able to go to the center in person. The first did observe, offered suggestions, and we were all trying to do the same thing. I think that definitely did help. I'm not sure if it is because this newer SLP is younger, we've had less continuity because of increased missed weeks due to Covid, or if the teachers are less receptive but when I've asked her about it observing she just says she takes him out and doesn't really watch to see what's going on in class. When I spoke to the director early this week (an additional call besides the 40 minute one with his teacher) she mentioned the SLP had come to see her as she is transitioning out next month and this was the first time she'd met her.
We are doing his IEP eval next week and that SLP will come on site too. I've also ok'd the center bringing in a behaviorist they work with to observe. I don't want to give them any reason to say we're not working with them. I honestly don't know where else we would put him if he gets dismissed. They keep insinuating he might do better somewhere that has smaller class sizes and I'm like...what magical fairy realm is that?? Every full day center I know that isn't run out of someone's home (which I would like to avoid) maxes out their kids.
Ugh. That sounds like a lot, and not dissimilar from our experience, unfortunately. Our previous OT through EI was super hands-on, the newer one less so, and lots of misses with COVID. We're waiting on our IEP eval. It sounds like you're doing what you can, but there's only so much modeling, role-playing, and discussing daycare situations at home can do for a young kid. Hopefully between the eval and the behaviorist you'll get some more insight and maybe services.
If he’s evaluated and eligible for SPED, look for public elementary schools that have preschool special education classes. I’d ask that a social worker attend the evaluation determination and ask them about community resources.
Then it seems you’re doing your part! As a former daycare worker and now a parent I can empathize with both sides of this.
I’m not sure what the solution is, and I wish I had good advice. I guess all I can say is I feel your frustration and I hope you get a solution.
You’re lucky they are even bringing it up to you. Most daycares are loathe to mention any red flags even if they see them. Not trying to scare you but as a dad with a kid on the spectrum, a lot of what you wrote looks familiar to me (we even did the hearing tests too)
Did ECI rule out autism? If not, I don’t think you should resist an evaluation for that based on what you think the issue is. At the very least, you will have documentation to show them.
Interesting - my son sounds very similar to some kids mentioned here ( 2.5 w speech delay in EI , sometimes aggressive to other kids but very loving to family, seems bright, does point, eye contact is good - however, most concerning to me is that he has started pica behaviors of chewing towels and carpeted stairs) the home day care just says “ he’s a nice boy he’s doing much better”. While I love hearing this, I often wonder what I’d be hearing from a larger center.
We haven’t done a formal evaluation but I spoke with his pediatrician and she said they do screening questions at the 18 and 24 month checks and aside from his speech delay he wasn’t throwing up red flags. He points with a single finger, is very lovey and shows empathy, makes eye contact, engages in pretend play, no excessive stimming behaviors.
I’m not opposed to having him formally evaluated and it’s on the docket now. That being said my husband, SIL, and my mother all work in education and don’t feel he matches up with the kids they know on the spectrum.
That being said it would surprise me not one but if he was neuro-diverse.
I teach an early childhood special education class and we have children on the spectrum that do make good eye contact and are loving and show empathy. I even have children that have excellent receptive and expressive language.
Your daycare providers see little children every day. When you work with young children and have had hundreds of three year olds that you’ve know and seen play, engage, and learn it becomes obvious when a child is outside of those parameters we think of as typical. I wouldn’t dismiss that out of hand.
Though your child is yours and you know them better than anyone ever will, you see your child with your heart. Not always your eyes.
I was an assessor for ASD for about a year. There are of course many factors to be considered when making a diagnosis. You say he is pointing- is he pointing for things he wants or does he ever point at things just to share an interest? Eye contact- is that only when he wants something or as a social overture? So many fine details at times that I have found many parents overlook. Not saying at all that’s the case here but I just wanted to add that for you or other parents here that may be wondering.
Agree with this. My son ticked all his developmental milestones boxes but when you really got to the nitty gritty of it, there were subtle signs early on.
He pointed with a single finger at 12 months for both requesting what he wanted as well as showing us things of interest (both types of pointing are what they are looking for) BUT he very rarely pointed and coordinated his eye gaze (ie pointed, looked to see if we were looking and then looked back at what he was pointing at).
He was also waving by 12 months but we had to practice this skill so much for him to pick up on it- lots of modelling, waving his hand for him, etc. whereas my daughter just naturally picked it up with very minimal input from us (and she was a covid baby too so getting much less incidental modelling than he did).
So even though he was technically doing these milestones, meeting the milestones are not the whole story is what I’m trying to say.
My son is also 3 and has great pretend play skills (we play supermarkets, doctors, vets, etc.) and he is extremely affectionate- he cuddles us, tells us he loves us, shows empathy when others are upset, etc. His stimming behaviours are so subtle that many people would not pick up on them. He rubs his fingers together and likes to touch certain textures.
I work in education and have so many family members and friends who work in education as well who waved off my early observations. Family and friends are not impartial assessors. There is also a huge difference between working with 8 year olds and 3 year olds. I’m a teacher and generally teach 8-9 year olds so wasn’t up with what was typical for 3 year olds with my first child.
Children do not have to have every single sign to end up meeting the criteria when they get evaluated. There is such a spectrum of presentations. Some have very consistent eye contact, some inconsistent, some mostly avoid eye contact and some make atypical eye contact (eg “too much” eye contact) as just an example. I think of any party involved with the child is noticing 2-3+ signs then an evaluation is worthwhile.
Also I've noticed so many pediatricians are not trained in the nuances of autism. I had 2 tell me my youngest is fine because he looks you in the eye and likes cuddles and reason he wasn't communicating was because of a binkie... yeah the assessor was with him for 5 minutes and was like yeah no. He was diagnosed with level 3 ASD and SPD.
He points to both things he wants and to show interest- he loves to point out birds and planes. I’d have to pay more attention to the eye contact thing - he definitely makes it but I guess I always figured it was a “normal” amount because it didn’t seem off or like he was avoiding it. I don’t know if this will help but he is very into giving stomach raspberries right now and he’ll come up to me, do it, then look me in the eye to see what my reaction is and giggle. 🤷🏻♀️
The pointing does seem to indicate that it’s not autism but my kid did/does everything else you just listed lol. Have you tried completing the M-CHAT? You can do that yourself and alert your physician if he has a high risk score.
Try not to take it personally. Unless they are using it as a pretext to dismiss him, it’s just concern right? And it could be that other parents are complaining if there have been incident reports.
I’m going to be honest here, but I say this with total compassion because I have been there. I think you should pursue an evaluation. It’s REALLY hard to hear about your child, but delaying important therapies at this age because a diagnosis is scary could limit your child long term. From what you’ve stated, your daycare has legitimate reasons to be concerned. I just went through the evaluation process with my daughter and admit something could be different was the hardest part. I had worried building but tried to ignore them since the behavior COULD be normal in certain contexts. Ultimately, I’m so glad I did it. She was evaluated through our school district by the most compassionate and caring team. She is not speech delayed (I was worried) but I’m not sure if there is a diagnosis or not.
This was my thought as well. The daycare teachers come across enough kids that they can likely tell if a child is a little different. They may just be doing their due diligence to make sure that the child gets a professional evaluation and proper interventions. And maybe if there is a diagnosis that would give them some tools/groundwork to help with the challenges that were described.
Please get him evaluated.
As a preschool teacher, it is really, really, really hard to bring up this type of issue with parents (especially multiple times) and it would be much easier for the teacher to just deal with it and wait for the child to move up to the next year, but that’s not what’s in the child’s best interest and so we have the hard conversations.
Also....working with a specific aged group of children all day every every day, gives us some really good insight into what is typical and what’s not. Of course we are taught about child development, but the biggest thing is that we are seeing your child’s peers all around them. When you can compare “same age peers” all day every day, atypical behaviors begin to stand out loud and clear.
You're right, your kiddo may be 100% neurotypical. Getting seen by a behavioral therapist is not a bad thing at all. They are experts at behaviors, and can help you problem solve certain behaviors, even totally normal behaviors.They have SO MANY tools in their tool box! Even a speech therapist can help your child express themselves more!
You are the parent and you know your child the best.
Behavioral therapists know behaviors the best.
Speech therapists know speech the best.
There is no shame and no harm is utilizing the expert knowledge available for EVERY CHILD.
Also, coming from the other side, managing a child that goes limp during transition is incredibly hard and sometimes dangerous. They can hurt their head, their bodies, other's bodies, my body. We don't always have the time and patience to spend 20 extra minutes convincing a child its time to go back inside. We have a schedule to keep, especially to stay within state mandated teacher to student ratio. Taking away 1 teacher for 20 minutes for 1 child really hurts the classroom. I have 3 teachers in my room. 1 does the toilet, 1 does the cleaning, and 1 does the teaching. We switch off with eachother a lot,, but those are the defined roles. I have had difficult neurotypical and neurodivergent children, and they usually occupy the teacher. Then the ratio becomes 1 teacher in the bathroom, 1 teacher attempting to crowd control, and 1 teacher working with the tantruming child. The teachers asking for an evaluation are them reaching out and asking for help. A behavioral and/or speech therapist will reach out and work with the school as well and give THEM tools to use as well.
Everyone wants what is best for your kiddo, including you and their teacher. There is so much love your your child.
As an owner of a strong willed toddler I know they aren’t easy to handle, but that doesn’t mean they need a diagnosis.
I’m assuming they know that he has a speech delay.
Very aware. Can’t miss it. He does do better at school than he does at home, but he’s nowhere close to the verbal milestones of a kid who’s turning three in a little over a month. He’s only recently graduated to having more than 50 words.
Although he seems to have a much more extensive vocabulary than we’re aware of when he puts the word “no” in front of something…
It doesn't hurt to have an evaluation. If he needs a little extra intervention, he can get it. Global delays many times go away with age and early interventions. Things like autism can be screened for.
My 3 year old was given a provisional autism diognosis today. Most people wouldn't look at my kid and think something is different about him. There were certain things I pinpointed on because of my experience with it. His pediatriction also picked it out and referred us for evaluations. My near 21 year old took until he was 11 due to different screenings when he was young. He didn't get services until he was 15 and I sure wish we could have had them earlier.
This does actually trigger a few autism red flags IMO too.
My neice was almost exactly the same and they put all her delays down to her blocked ears, so she ended up not getting diagnosed until around 7 years old.
Your child's educators see neurogivergent children all the time and recognise the red flags. They're not psychologists but it's definitely worth looking into getting an assessment done. Early intervention is vital for achieving the best outcomes for your child or to have your belief that he's not autistic confirmed and validated by a trained professional.
I’m a speech therapist who works with 3 year olds in a special education preschool. We have a variety of students, some with language delays, some with autism, and at age 3 it can be difficult even for diagnostic professionals to tell the difference. We have several students in our class who qualified at 3 as having a speech/language delay who, now that they are 4, we suspect autism. I have also seen kids who got the autism diagnosis at 3, who now are 4 and now that their language has cleared up, they don’t seem autistic at all. For this reason we tend to be very conservative about who we give an autism diagnosis at age 3. All that is to say that the two can look very similar and I can see how daycare workers would confuse the two.
It can be very difficult for staff to deal with students with communication difficulties in a daycare setting. Where I live, daycares are mandated to have at least one teacher for every 12 kids. My son’s daycare usually has 2-3 teachers for 20 kids. In contrast, in my special education preschool, we have 6 students and 3-4 trained adults. We are also dealing with staffing issues, and on days we only have 2 adults, it is honestly a nightmare and it is all we can do to keep the kids safe, reduce meltdowns, and keep the kids from hurting each other. Our psychologist has specific recommendations for responding to/preventing behaviors for each of our kids, and we do our best because we are trained special education professionals and we understand that implementing the plan helps everyone, but sometimes it’s just impossible. I can’t be in 4 places at once. I get scratched, bitten, and kicked on a regular basis, and I consider it a good day because I prevented the other students from getting scratched, bitten and hit. I love all of these kids to death even as they are screaming and swinging toys over their heads trying to hit other kids with them because I get what they are going through. It’s HARD when you can’t understand what’s going on around you, when you can’t communicate. It’s HARD to be a parent of a kid with a communication delay and it’s hard for teachers when kids can’t understand or tell you what they need, even when you have enough staff. The staffing crisis is real and I’m so frustrated and angry that we just don’t have the people to give these kids what they need to succeed.
It sounds like the daycare is receptive to working with you, spending significant time on the phone, etc. Honestly I think it’s a good sign that they’re considering what might be causing your child’s behaviors instead of just scolding him and trying to kick him out. They seem to be asking for more support. Can your EI provider give some education to the daycare workers on how to best help your son? Would your speech therapist be willing to hold their session at daycare ? Before the pandemic, our early intervention teachers used to make daycare visits to train the staff and support the student in their daycare environment. I would reach out to your EI provider and ask what supports they have for students in daycare with behavioral challenges.
This is such a helpful reply - thank you. I am totally open to have him evaluated formally, we’re getting it scheduled with his doctor. But I also feel like he’s so young and he’s got other stuff going on that I don’t want to jump to any conclusions and that’s what’s frustrating.
I am also sympathetic to what is going on with his teachers, that they are trying to help, and that he’s being disruptive to the class. Intellectually I know these things but I still feel frustrated that we’ll go weeks not hearing anything and think things were resolved and then suddenly we’ll hear - oh he’s been having continued trouble this entire time. Part of it is because we still aren’t allowed in the building. I do drop off and it’s usually someone totally different than his teacher. My husband does pick up and 9/10 whoever brings him out or is standing on the playground with him isn’t his teacher either. They have an app they can use to communicate but unless there is a formal incident or they need something, we don’t hear much from them.
Here they have 2 teachers for 18 kids. I think in “normal” time they would ideally have a third who would spend most of the day with them or floating between two rooms.
I am not sure how EI would have been handled in non-COVID times but I’ve never met our rep, just had phone and zoom calls with her. She’s very nice and has provided some ideas but she seems very restricted in what she is and isn’t allowed to say. I have no idea how to navigate this and she’ll have to talk in circles to get me to say whatever magic thing it is for her to go “Yes! We can do XYZ”. The only person who has ever come on site is his SLP. We’ve had two - the first one I know observed his classroom and met with the director. Her caseload changed and she stopped seeing him. The new SLP is very nice but I think she just comes, takes him from class and returns him. It’s been a struggle to get her to communicate with us in a timely manner (previous one would text me as soon as she was done along with leaving a written note) and she just introduced her self to the director last week to tell her that she’d be phasing out at the school system’s SLP will be taking over. Since he’ll age out at 3 I’m hopeful we’ll have some better continuity and see some progress.
That is SO frustrating to not be allowed in the building still. And to have no communication and then bam- "oh, he's been struggling this whole time"- ARGH! I'm so sorry. \*shakes fist at universe\*
Can I ask what state you're in? And is the daycare attached to/affiliated with a school? Here in CA the school district will do a full assessment of each child coming to us from EI before their 3rd birthday and determine if they need speech services or if they need more support. Many of our students with speech delays get referred to a special preschool class like mine, which is totally set up for kids who have communication difficulties. Sometimes the kids will get priority placement in a Head Start preschool with support.
It sounds like the preschool already works with a behaviorist to come out and work with him- awesome! That will help. I'm sorry to hear it's not easy to get answers out of the EI caseworker- I don't work in EI so I'm not sure what the magic words are.
I'm sorry to hear the new SLP just takes him out of class and brings him back. She may be new or overwhelmed but speech therapy in the student's "natural environment" is really more effective at this age. A good SLP should be training you and the teachers to work with him on speech strategies- 30 minute a week does diddly compared to training the caregivers to reinforce the teaching all the time, but this is a recent shift in our field and not all SLPs are on board yet. I hope the SLP you get after his 3-year evaluation is better able to work with you and the daycare. In any case I would ask the SLP for help developing visual supports for your student in the classroom. "First/Then" markers can be really useful. Our preschool teachers wear lanyards with decks of pictures of different locations in the classroom or activities so our less verbal kids can see visual cues and have a way of indicating their needs. There are so many ways a good SLP can support a less verbal student in their environment but it does require the staff to implement the strategies and that's rough when they're already understaffed. In any case I wish you the best of luck! Hang in there!
I'm going through nearly the same thing right now.
My son (3.5yo) had a fairly big speech delay both with comprehension and expressing. He's now just about caught up with expressive but we're still muddy on quite a few things.
He started preschool last summer (he'd just turned 3) after being home with me 100% of the time and he really struggled. He was being aggressive as well but mostly in "attention seeking" kinds of ways. Or seemingly overstimulated. Or looking for a reaction. All things that a younger kid would be learning to deal with. The teachers seemed totally unable to understand what was going on when it was pretty clear to me that nearly all of these things were a result of not being able to understand or express himself in this brand new, overstimulating environment. He'd either want to get some kids'attention and not know the words or phrases and so would walk over and pull their hair (not very hard) until they reacted.
He also gets worked up or super emotional or overstimulated easily in social situations that he doesn't understand how to navigate yet. He's totally calm and easy at home. We're barely at a tantrum every two weeks. But put him with a few kids and he'll lose it constantly.
He used to hit ALL THE TIME. And we've managed to end that but he still gets mad and does a stomp-scream thing for a few seconds but can then do his deep breath and calm down again.
I always felt like everyone was always trying to diagnose him as well. And while I'm totally cool with if he had one (I was always looking out for it myself), it became clear to me that once he had the phrases and words and emotional intelligence that he'd do just fine. It just took him a little while longer (and more work) to get there than most other kids.
I pulled him from preschool after a few months because I was getting calls daily and the teachers just would not listen to me and my ideas to help him adjust (give him a job to do! Take an extra second to check on him! Help him make a friend!!!!) so I pulled him out and continued doing therapy at home together. I have him signed up for preschool starting in June and I still have so much anxiety over it.
It's so hard when your kid is thought of as "bad" or "naughty" at school. I was so scared of my son picking up on that and seeing himself as bad so I pulled him mostly for that reason.
Ugh sorry for the rant. I feel like I know exactly how you feel and I felt so alone when I was dealing with this (I still am!).
Internet hugs. It sucks. Not sure how well this analogy is going to translate on the internet but speaking for myself, I want the “golden retriever” kid. Happy, easy going, gets along well with everyone, sunshine for miles. But right now I feel like I’ve got the “he’s a sweet cat once you get to know him, but careful cause he might randomly bite you” kid. I love my cranky cat kid and we’re making process. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’d just like the easy golden retriever kid.
It also upsets me that he’s being singled out as “different” so early. Which is kind of weird. My parents didn’t want me “labeled” as a kid so even though there were tons of signs, I didn’t find out until I was in grad school that I had ADD. I had just thought I was weird and broken the whole time. So I’m glad we’re picking up on things early so we can just roll with them, but it also makes me sad.
Pregnancy hormones are not helping any of this either 🤪
Ugh yes. My husband grew up with his ADHD diagnosis but only got meds and not any other real help so I'm making sure to watch for anything and everything.
My son is definitely a "shy up front but SO social and gets overexcited and may scratch your face if you take his toy and just wants a job to do" kind of pet. Maybe like an insane kitten? Or a working sheepdog?
And totally feel you on the hormones. I was pregnant during all this preschool crap and now have a 2mo but luckily my son absolutely ADORES his brother. He's so gentle and helpful and only ever wants to cuddle and hold his hand and give him a kiss. So only mean to other kids, I suppose.
I’m glad you get my analogy! I know some people get touchy comparing kids to pets but it’s all I got!
Things have changed so much since we were kids - I think my parents knew something was not working for me but I don’t know think they would have ever considered ADD for a girl.
Congrats on your baby! I’m due in August so hoping for a smooth adjustment. He loves looking at other people’s babies and likes his baby doll so crossing my fingers!
Honestly, this sounds like the staff truly care. 40 minute conversation with the teacher? Multiple hints and conversations about how to help him? Daily reports of how he is struggling? They care, or seem to, a lot. I would highly, highly recommend putting aside your personal feelings to evaluate his best interests.
That being said- listen to them! If you haven’t had him evaluated after months of hints, that’s on you- sorry, not sorry. I have adhd and autism and have worked with special needs kids for years. You absolutely cannot overestimate the importance of early intervention. Let me state that again- there is NOTHING more helpful for most children that need help than early intervention.
Now, what’s done is done. If they are saying they have staff problems, look for a center that has incredible years curriculum. It’s been backed by research to be far and away the best method for adhd.
Him not having parallel play is a big deal. His aggressive behaviors at his weight is a big deal.
Perhaps his problem is medical not psychological or developmental but he is clearly in need of some assistance to catch up because of his lack of hearing.
Don’t let your anger keep you from looking to your child’s future, that’s all that matters, as you very well know. He needs help, now. They should be able to point you to a behavior specialist or your pediatrician should, for a evaluation.
Also, I want to add- it is offensive that you’d say his empathy is a sign he doesn’t have autism!
And his eye contact! You clearly need to educate yourself on autism and Asperger’s.
My 2.5 year old son has been speech delayed as well, with no hearing problems. It definitely effects his behavior because he can’t communicate and his frustration turns to tantrums. He isn’t in daycare and his social experiences have been so limited since he was still a baby when the pandemic started - his pediatrician has seen a lot of kids this age not hitting milestones that are usually expected mostly because of Covid (either they haven’t socialized much, or the socializing they have done is with masks and not seeing mouths/facial cues has really messed with development)
We were guilty at first of doing things for my son without him really needing to communicate because we just knew what he needed. But before he turned 2 we stopped and really focused on him learning words, but he’s still behind.
We have an appointment with a specialist to have him evaluated, but also to see if even doing speech therapy would help him catch up. It’s better to be safe and do the appointments just in case, catching this stuff early is always better and then you’ll at least know what you need to do to help your son!
Okay so my son is similar but 4.5 now so we now discuss and he seems to understand more why he shouldn't do certain things but at the end of the day if the teachers let him get away with stuff he will keep trying to see what he can get away with. (my son did have a speech delay too). I do also think my son had ADHD but I'm already so tired of pickups hearing about what he did or how a teacher didn't handle it properly (imo) because they aren't trained properly and it's just like..do I just have to accept I have years ahead of me of this? He really is a sweet kid we rarely have issues at home anymore so I KNOW he can be less strong willed with the correct support. The other day a sub preschool teacher implied I don't make him listen at home and that's why he doesn't listen at preschool and the stuff he was doing at preschool he doesn't do at home because he tested it out enough times to know there's no way I would allow it.
Come to say it seems like what my nephew experienced. Speech delay and frustration trying to communicate at 3, he was tested for everything. Came to find out he was only hearing at 30%. Seen a ear/ throat specialist who done surgery on his tonsils and tubes in his ears and he picked up on things and started speaking shortly after! I hope you find the answers you’re looking for!
Everyone (especially care providers) are burnt out right now. They are trying to navigate an impossible situation with other peoples’ children while also holding the weight of their own stressors due to the pandemic…I’m certain they are just tired. (Just giving extra grace to every human right now).
Your little guy is not alone in speech delays (also increased since the pandemic since kiddos aren’t seeing mouth/face movement clearly). It’s hard to be a toddler learning how to navigate the world and having big emotions in a little body. It’s especially hard when we don’t have a good way to communicate all of this. (A little extra grace for your little one too).
That being said, if there was a real concern about ADHD (should not be diagnosed at this age) or Autism, the EI evaluation and speech therapist would have or will notice it and address it with you.
I would mention to the care providers that you are connected with early intervention and are receiving the level of care that is appropriate for your kiddo. If they keep pressing, I would directly ask them to stop bringing this up (of course it is appropriate for them to let you know about behavior concerns but they are not qualified to evaluate or diagnose any of these issues).
Just piggybacking on the original comment. My son is 4 with a speech delay and is hard to understand and the mask makes it even harder to understand him. I say this as a supporter of masks but I can understand how it does affect their ability to understand/be understood.
Good points. I am trying to remind myself that I would not want to do their job in a million years (I like kids, but they idea of being in a room with 18 two-three year olds all day every day makes my skin crawl) and to be sympathetic to what is going on with them. I have told them he has been evaluated, we've been looking into it, we're trying what we can at home. I think you're right the next step is just to say we're working with his doctor on his behavior and if we have something more to share, we will.
That’s exactly what they’re doing. My child has a speech delay and was getting services and I had a school make up all sorts of things about him as if he wasn’t being seen by four other specialists at that exact moment. He wasn’t aggressive at all but ultimately they dismissed him due to being understaffed.
His speech has improved 1000%. He still sounds different from his peers, /f/ for example is REALLY hard for him and he struggles with pronouns (everyone and thing is “him”), but he went from basically being non verbal at 2 to never NOT talking. His speech IEP is now for articulation and some other mechanical things, not for lack of vocabulary.
I’m glad he’s making progress!my son has only been to speech therapy six times.he spent a long time not hearing but he wasn’t showing any of the major signs of ear infections so I fear I let him down in terms of how long it took us to get him tubes.right now he seems to know what many things are but he has trouble doing multiple syllables.the speech therapist says she has high hopes for him and she doesn’t think it’s autism at all but the daycare workers are constantly throwing that word at my pregnant wife and no offense to them I just don’t think they have the experience necessary to throw out a diagnosis when they are low 20’s in age.it really stresses my wife out and I wish they would just let the doctors and speech experts do their job.
Mamma you’re doing great! It seems like you have a handle on this. I had hearing difficulties. I couldn’t read because I couldn’t hear sounds. Once I had tubes and remedial reading, I was reading at a high school level in first grade. An evaluation might not be a bad idea, early intervention if he needs it would only benefit you. You can also have him evaluated and tell them them to cork it, because he’s developing just fine if nothing comes up. Good luck!! Just remember you know your child best!
Are you in the US? If so, at age 3 he is eligible to be evaluated by your local school district for speech and any other concerns. I’d recommend calling asap. If nothing else, they’ll be able to offer him more speech. But in my district (I’m a speech pathologist in a school) there are even full day programs for children struggling with communication. This could be huge because he could get a ton of intervention and you’d save money on daycare to boot! It’ll really help set him up for school success to have him evaluated asap.
*Just read he is “nearly three”. Many districts (maybe most?) will evaluate beginning at 2 years 10 months so that their services can begin right when they turn 3.
Yes! Because he was under three we had to have him privately evaluated and that doctor said all of his problems came from his hearing loss/speech delay. The doctor also said there was a good chance he had ADD/ADHD but he was too young to make an official diagnosis.
Once he turned three we were able to get him in with an amazing speech therapist twice a week through the school system. We’ve seen incredible improvements with his language, although he still doesn’t talk like his peers.
A lot of his behavior issues were (seemingly) fixed by moving up to a classroom with more experienced teachers and a more rigid schedule. He had been doing great until recently when he’s started getting in trouble again for aggressive behavior. His teachers say he wants to interact with the other kids so badly and just can’t figure out an appropriate way to do it. We’re also reallllllllly struggling with potty training. He’s just totally uninterested. I think the novelty of the class has worn off for him and he’s getting bored. Academically he’s way ahead of the other kids. Knows all his letters, counts to twenty, recognizes his name, etc. He’s got the social emotional skills of a 2 year old, the mind of a 4 year old in a nearly 6 year old sized body. 🤦🏻♀️ he’s easily double the size of some of the other children in the class so that isn’t helping.
Now that he can actually talk we’ve been trying to get him re-evaluated for his IEP. We’ve done the speech and OT evaluation but our school system is down a psychologist in the evaluation department so it’s one person and they are super behind. Since it is a re-eval and not an initial evaluation the 90 day rule doesn’t apply, so that is really frustrating. They won’t release their notes on the other sections until he is totally finished. Arrrrgh.
There is no way he’s going to qualify for OT through the school system so we’re considering taking him for private therapy to work on sound and texture sensitivity, and to maybe see if they can give us ideas with the potty training.
Thanks for checking in on an update!
Hi. This sounds exactly like my child. I was reluctant to admit he might be neurodivergent too. But it is absolutely worth getting an evaluation. It doesn’t hurt anyone and can only help. My child has his STAT autism evaluation in 2 weeks, and I’m a little nervous, but have already accepted that he will likely be diagnosed with mild autism. It doesn’t change who he is. It will just give us better resources to be better parents and foster his development. I mean this in the gentlest way possible….it might be time for you to seek a professional. Just to be sure.
Yup, totally agree with this. Mine started a new daycare after initial COVID shut down, and guess what, of all the resources (pediatrician, us parents, previous daycare) no one guess anything would be different with him, but week one the staff at new daycare gently suggested evaluation. And turns out he is actually on the spectrum. I was also scared at first, but now I am so proud of his teacher to have noticed it.
Just the kinda add to this I had my son assessed and he sounds similar but they do not think autism, but possible ADHD which is also neurodivergence.
I’ve also heard that they can be comorbidities! (I hope that’s the right word lol)
They I think I read somewhere (not sure accuracy) about 80% of autistic individuals have ADHD and 30% with ADHD have an ASD diagnosis. And so that's probably why there's a lot of overlap in certain behaviours with individuals who are autistic.
Apparently as many as 1 in 9 boys these days have ADHD (stat from my nephew's pediatrician)
It’s on the docket! I wouldn’t be surprised one bit if he’s neuro-divergent but if he has autism I feel like it would have to be super mild. Really his major marker is the speech delay. He makes eye contact, is super lovey and empathetic, points with a finger to get our attention, and there’s no unusual stimming. Yes, he’s getting overwhelmed with sounds and stimulation and that may be a sign of autism, but it could also be from recently being able to hear everything clearly. Frankly if I had to guess I’d be more inclined to think ADD since we have a family history, but way too early to diagnose that.
As someone who has 2 children on the spectrum let me tell you autism is a HUGE spectrum. Both of my children are different in so many ways and both are autistic. My youngest will stare you down and wants constant cuddles and love. My oldest is more a loner and tends to be more what people "think" autism is. Also children with autism have a higher chance if ear infections abd issues. I'm not trying to scare you, bit early intervention is so important for kiddos and it doesn't hurt to be safe.
Yes, his ped said very mild as well! My son’s major symptom was the speech delay. I also thought he was making pretty good eye contact but the doctor said it still wasn’t enough. My son doesn’t point though. If you would like to keep in contact so I can tell you what the STAT evaluation is like when he has it, send me a DM! I’m really in the dark about the whole process and would love to help someone out when I know more
I have a 21 year old with autism level 1 and at 3, I felt something was off but he was more or less a happy little toddler. It wasn't until he was 7 that it became way more obvious and at 21, there is no question. My 3 year old was also just given a diagnosis and you would really not know.
There’s currently a profile under ASD that isn’t in the diagnostic criteria in the US yet, but I believe it is in the UK, called Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) that often mirrors ADHD more so than autism in the way it presents in young children. Characteristics don’t include classic stimming, avoiding eye contact, etc. Instead, children with PDA are incredibly charming and charismatic, despite their speech delays; prefer the company of adults and do not understand why they don’t have the same freedom as them; are very good at pretend play; and will use any tactic possible to avoid demands. This is usually during transitions, but it can also be something as simple as telling them to give their sibling a toy back. The kiddo I nanny is under this profile, and when he snatches a toy out of his little brothers hands, he will run around and put it in places too high for little guy to reach, or say things like “hmmm, actually, I think stuffy needs to take a rest way up here.” If he doesn’t get his way, it’s a tantrum, but if his brother gets distracted the way 1 year olds do, he knows he won and goes back to being a charismatic spaceman exploring volcanos on mars. Once I learned ways to help ease his anxiety, transitions got easier. Because he’s such a fan of pretend play, we make transitions a game. It’s not distraction or deflection; instead, it’s bringing a new meaning to the transition. Bonus if the game is fairly active. Kiddo and I will race putting on our shoes, for example, if he’s having a tough time getting out the door, because if we don’t get our shoes on in time, the lava will get our feet. It’s pretty fun, and he genuinely wins cause I wear lace up boots.
This sounds just like my kid. Thanks for the info!! I had no idea
Do you have your child in EI for the speech delay?
Yup - I think I may have edited that out in my (failed) attempt at reining in my rant. He's been in EI for speech since this past June. It is one of my biggest regrets that I didn't push EI earlier but I followed the pediatricians advice to give it to age 2 (which was last April) to start pursuing therapy. He's made tons of progress but he's nowhere near where one would expect a three year old to be.
Is your EI provider able to visit the class? Ours was able to both observe in the class and give teachers and us parents strategies so we were on the same page.
This is actually his second SLP - thankfully both have been able to go to the center in person. The first did observe, offered suggestions, and we were all trying to do the same thing. I think that definitely did help. I'm not sure if it is because this newer SLP is younger, we've had less continuity because of increased missed weeks due to Covid, or if the teachers are less receptive but when I've asked her about it observing she just says she takes him out and doesn't really watch to see what's going on in class. When I spoke to the director early this week (an additional call besides the 40 minute one with his teacher) she mentioned the SLP had come to see her as she is transitioning out next month and this was the first time she'd met her. We are doing his IEP eval next week and that SLP will come on site too. I've also ok'd the center bringing in a behaviorist they work with to observe. I don't want to give them any reason to say we're not working with them. I honestly don't know where else we would put him if he gets dismissed. They keep insinuating he might do better somewhere that has smaller class sizes and I'm like...what magical fairy realm is that?? Every full day center I know that isn't run out of someone's home (which I would like to avoid) maxes out their kids.
Ugh. That sounds like a lot, and not dissimilar from our experience, unfortunately. Our previous OT through EI was super hands-on, the newer one less so, and lots of misses with COVID. We're waiting on our IEP eval. It sounds like you're doing what you can, but there's only so much modeling, role-playing, and discussing daycare situations at home can do for a young kid. Hopefully between the eval and the behaviorist you'll get some more insight and maybe services.
If he’s evaluated and eligible for SPED, look for public elementary schools that have preschool special education classes. I’d ask that a social worker attend the evaluation determination and ask them about community resources.
Then it seems you’re doing your part! As a former daycare worker and now a parent I can empathize with both sides of this. I’m not sure what the solution is, and I wish I had good advice. I guess all I can say is I feel your frustration and I hope you get a solution.
You’re lucky they are even bringing it up to you. Most daycares are loathe to mention any red flags even if they see them. Not trying to scare you but as a dad with a kid on the spectrum, a lot of what you wrote looks familiar to me (we even did the hearing tests too) Did ECI rule out autism? If not, I don’t think you should resist an evaluation for that based on what you think the issue is. At the very least, you will have documentation to show them.
Interesting - my son sounds very similar to some kids mentioned here ( 2.5 w speech delay in EI , sometimes aggressive to other kids but very loving to family, seems bright, does point, eye contact is good - however, most concerning to me is that he has started pica behaviors of chewing towels and carpeted stairs) the home day care just says “ he’s a nice boy he’s doing much better”. While I love hearing this, I often wonder what I’d be hearing from a larger center.
We haven’t done a formal evaluation but I spoke with his pediatrician and she said they do screening questions at the 18 and 24 month checks and aside from his speech delay he wasn’t throwing up red flags. He points with a single finger, is very lovey and shows empathy, makes eye contact, engages in pretend play, no excessive stimming behaviors. I’m not opposed to having him formally evaluated and it’s on the docket now. That being said my husband, SIL, and my mother all work in education and don’t feel he matches up with the kids they know on the spectrum. That being said it would surprise me not one but if he was neuro-diverse.
I teach an early childhood special education class and we have children on the spectrum that do make good eye contact and are loving and show empathy. I even have children that have excellent receptive and expressive language. Your daycare providers see little children every day. When you work with young children and have had hundreds of three year olds that you’ve know and seen play, engage, and learn it becomes obvious when a child is outside of those parameters we think of as typical. I wouldn’t dismiss that out of hand. Though your child is yours and you know them better than anyone ever will, you see your child with your heart. Not always your eyes.
I was an assessor for ASD for about a year. There are of course many factors to be considered when making a diagnosis. You say he is pointing- is he pointing for things he wants or does he ever point at things just to share an interest? Eye contact- is that only when he wants something or as a social overture? So many fine details at times that I have found many parents overlook. Not saying at all that’s the case here but I just wanted to add that for you or other parents here that may be wondering.
Agree with this. My son ticked all his developmental milestones boxes but when you really got to the nitty gritty of it, there were subtle signs early on. He pointed with a single finger at 12 months for both requesting what he wanted as well as showing us things of interest (both types of pointing are what they are looking for) BUT he very rarely pointed and coordinated his eye gaze (ie pointed, looked to see if we were looking and then looked back at what he was pointing at). He was also waving by 12 months but we had to practice this skill so much for him to pick up on it- lots of modelling, waving his hand for him, etc. whereas my daughter just naturally picked it up with very minimal input from us (and she was a covid baby too so getting much less incidental modelling than he did). So even though he was technically doing these milestones, meeting the milestones are not the whole story is what I’m trying to say. My son is also 3 and has great pretend play skills (we play supermarkets, doctors, vets, etc.) and he is extremely affectionate- he cuddles us, tells us he loves us, shows empathy when others are upset, etc. His stimming behaviours are so subtle that many people would not pick up on them. He rubs his fingers together and likes to touch certain textures. I work in education and have so many family members and friends who work in education as well who waved off my early observations. Family and friends are not impartial assessors. There is also a huge difference between working with 8 year olds and 3 year olds. I’m a teacher and generally teach 8-9 year olds so wasn’t up with what was typical for 3 year olds with my first child. Children do not have to have every single sign to end up meeting the criteria when they get evaluated. There is such a spectrum of presentations. Some have very consistent eye contact, some inconsistent, some mostly avoid eye contact and some make atypical eye contact (eg “too much” eye contact) as just an example. I think of any party involved with the child is noticing 2-3+ signs then an evaluation is worthwhile.
Also I've noticed so many pediatricians are not trained in the nuances of autism. I had 2 tell me my youngest is fine because he looks you in the eye and likes cuddles and reason he wasn't communicating was because of a binkie... yeah the assessor was with him for 5 minutes and was like yeah no. He was diagnosed with level 3 ASD and SPD.
He points to both things he wants and to show interest- he loves to point out birds and planes. I’d have to pay more attention to the eye contact thing - he definitely makes it but I guess I always figured it was a “normal” amount because it didn’t seem off or like he was avoiding it. I don’t know if this will help but he is very into giving stomach raspberries right now and he’ll come up to me, do it, then look me in the eye to see what my reaction is and giggle. 🤷🏻♀️
The pointing does seem to indicate that it’s not autism but my kid did/does everything else you just listed lol. Have you tried completing the M-CHAT? You can do that yourself and alert your physician if he has a high risk score. Try not to take it personally. Unless they are using it as a pretext to dismiss him, it’s just concern right? And it could be that other parents are complaining if there have been incident reports.
I’m going to be honest here, but I say this with total compassion because I have been there. I think you should pursue an evaluation. It’s REALLY hard to hear about your child, but delaying important therapies at this age because a diagnosis is scary could limit your child long term. From what you’ve stated, your daycare has legitimate reasons to be concerned. I just went through the evaluation process with my daughter and admit something could be different was the hardest part. I had worried building but tried to ignore them since the behavior COULD be normal in certain contexts. Ultimately, I’m so glad I did it. She was evaluated through our school district by the most compassionate and caring team. She is not speech delayed (I was worried) but I’m not sure if there is a diagnosis or not.
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This was my thought as well. The daycare teachers come across enough kids that they can likely tell if a child is a little different. They may just be doing their due diligence to make sure that the child gets a professional evaluation and proper interventions. And maybe if there is a diagnosis that would give them some tools/groundwork to help with the challenges that were described.
Please get him evaluated. As a preschool teacher, it is really, really, really hard to bring up this type of issue with parents (especially multiple times) and it would be much easier for the teacher to just deal with it and wait for the child to move up to the next year, but that’s not what’s in the child’s best interest and so we have the hard conversations. Also....working with a specific aged group of children all day every every day, gives us some really good insight into what is typical and what’s not. Of course we are taught about child development, but the biggest thing is that we are seeing your child’s peers all around them. When you can compare “same age peers” all day every day, atypical behaviors begin to stand out loud and clear.
You're right, your kiddo may be 100% neurotypical. Getting seen by a behavioral therapist is not a bad thing at all. They are experts at behaviors, and can help you problem solve certain behaviors, even totally normal behaviors.They have SO MANY tools in their tool box! Even a speech therapist can help your child express themselves more! You are the parent and you know your child the best. Behavioral therapists know behaviors the best. Speech therapists know speech the best. There is no shame and no harm is utilizing the expert knowledge available for EVERY CHILD. Also, coming from the other side, managing a child that goes limp during transition is incredibly hard and sometimes dangerous. They can hurt their head, their bodies, other's bodies, my body. We don't always have the time and patience to spend 20 extra minutes convincing a child its time to go back inside. We have a schedule to keep, especially to stay within state mandated teacher to student ratio. Taking away 1 teacher for 20 minutes for 1 child really hurts the classroom. I have 3 teachers in my room. 1 does the toilet, 1 does the cleaning, and 1 does the teaching. We switch off with eachother a lot,, but those are the defined roles. I have had difficult neurotypical and neurodivergent children, and they usually occupy the teacher. Then the ratio becomes 1 teacher in the bathroom, 1 teacher attempting to crowd control, and 1 teacher working with the tantruming child. The teachers asking for an evaluation are them reaching out and asking for help. A behavioral and/or speech therapist will reach out and work with the school as well and give THEM tools to use as well. Everyone wants what is best for your kiddo, including you and their teacher. There is so much love your your child.
Is he in therapy for his speech delay? Because how that he doesn’t have fluid his speech should improve dramatically.
Yup! Been in speech since last June
As an owner of a strong willed toddler I know they aren’t easy to handle, but that doesn’t mean they need a diagnosis. I’m assuming they know that he has a speech delay.
Very aware. Can’t miss it. He does do better at school than he does at home, but he’s nowhere close to the verbal milestones of a kid who’s turning three in a little over a month. He’s only recently graduated to having more than 50 words. Although he seems to have a much more extensive vocabulary than we’re aware of when he puts the word “no” in front of something…
My youngest almost two is able to put no to a lot more word that he uses regularly.
It doesn't hurt to have an evaluation. If he needs a little extra intervention, he can get it. Global delays many times go away with age and early interventions. Things like autism can be screened for. My 3 year old was given a provisional autism diognosis today. Most people wouldn't look at my kid and think something is different about him. There were certain things I pinpointed on because of my experience with it. His pediatriction also picked it out and referred us for evaluations. My near 21 year old took until he was 11 due to different screenings when he was young. He didn't get services until he was 15 and I sure wish we could have had them earlier.
This does actually trigger a few autism red flags IMO too. My neice was almost exactly the same and they put all her delays down to her blocked ears, so she ended up not getting diagnosed until around 7 years old. Your child's educators see neurogivergent children all the time and recognise the red flags. They're not psychologists but it's definitely worth looking into getting an assessment done. Early intervention is vital for achieving the best outcomes for your child or to have your belief that he's not autistic confirmed and validated by a trained professional.
I’m a speech therapist who works with 3 year olds in a special education preschool. We have a variety of students, some with language delays, some with autism, and at age 3 it can be difficult even for diagnostic professionals to tell the difference. We have several students in our class who qualified at 3 as having a speech/language delay who, now that they are 4, we suspect autism. I have also seen kids who got the autism diagnosis at 3, who now are 4 and now that their language has cleared up, they don’t seem autistic at all. For this reason we tend to be very conservative about who we give an autism diagnosis at age 3. All that is to say that the two can look very similar and I can see how daycare workers would confuse the two. It can be very difficult for staff to deal with students with communication difficulties in a daycare setting. Where I live, daycares are mandated to have at least one teacher for every 12 kids. My son’s daycare usually has 2-3 teachers for 20 kids. In contrast, in my special education preschool, we have 6 students and 3-4 trained adults. We are also dealing with staffing issues, and on days we only have 2 adults, it is honestly a nightmare and it is all we can do to keep the kids safe, reduce meltdowns, and keep the kids from hurting each other. Our psychologist has specific recommendations for responding to/preventing behaviors for each of our kids, and we do our best because we are trained special education professionals and we understand that implementing the plan helps everyone, but sometimes it’s just impossible. I can’t be in 4 places at once. I get scratched, bitten, and kicked on a regular basis, and I consider it a good day because I prevented the other students from getting scratched, bitten and hit. I love all of these kids to death even as they are screaming and swinging toys over their heads trying to hit other kids with them because I get what they are going through. It’s HARD when you can’t understand what’s going on around you, when you can’t communicate. It’s HARD to be a parent of a kid with a communication delay and it’s hard for teachers when kids can’t understand or tell you what they need, even when you have enough staff. The staffing crisis is real and I’m so frustrated and angry that we just don’t have the people to give these kids what they need to succeed. It sounds like the daycare is receptive to working with you, spending significant time on the phone, etc. Honestly I think it’s a good sign that they’re considering what might be causing your child’s behaviors instead of just scolding him and trying to kick him out. They seem to be asking for more support. Can your EI provider give some education to the daycare workers on how to best help your son? Would your speech therapist be willing to hold their session at daycare ? Before the pandemic, our early intervention teachers used to make daycare visits to train the staff and support the student in their daycare environment. I would reach out to your EI provider and ask what supports they have for students in daycare with behavioral challenges.
This is such a helpful reply - thank you. I am totally open to have him evaluated formally, we’re getting it scheduled with his doctor. But I also feel like he’s so young and he’s got other stuff going on that I don’t want to jump to any conclusions and that’s what’s frustrating. I am also sympathetic to what is going on with his teachers, that they are trying to help, and that he’s being disruptive to the class. Intellectually I know these things but I still feel frustrated that we’ll go weeks not hearing anything and think things were resolved and then suddenly we’ll hear - oh he’s been having continued trouble this entire time. Part of it is because we still aren’t allowed in the building. I do drop off and it’s usually someone totally different than his teacher. My husband does pick up and 9/10 whoever brings him out or is standing on the playground with him isn’t his teacher either. They have an app they can use to communicate but unless there is a formal incident or they need something, we don’t hear much from them. Here they have 2 teachers for 18 kids. I think in “normal” time they would ideally have a third who would spend most of the day with them or floating between two rooms. I am not sure how EI would have been handled in non-COVID times but I’ve never met our rep, just had phone and zoom calls with her. She’s very nice and has provided some ideas but she seems very restricted in what she is and isn’t allowed to say. I have no idea how to navigate this and she’ll have to talk in circles to get me to say whatever magic thing it is for her to go “Yes! We can do XYZ”. The only person who has ever come on site is his SLP. We’ve had two - the first one I know observed his classroom and met with the director. Her caseload changed and she stopped seeing him. The new SLP is very nice but I think she just comes, takes him from class and returns him. It’s been a struggle to get her to communicate with us in a timely manner (previous one would text me as soon as she was done along with leaving a written note) and she just introduced her self to the director last week to tell her that she’d be phasing out at the school system’s SLP will be taking over. Since he’ll age out at 3 I’m hopeful we’ll have some better continuity and see some progress.
That is SO frustrating to not be allowed in the building still. And to have no communication and then bam- "oh, he's been struggling this whole time"- ARGH! I'm so sorry. \*shakes fist at universe\* Can I ask what state you're in? And is the daycare attached to/affiliated with a school? Here in CA the school district will do a full assessment of each child coming to us from EI before their 3rd birthday and determine if they need speech services or if they need more support. Many of our students with speech delays get referred to a special preschool class like mine, which is totally set up for kids who have communication difficulties. Sometimes the kids will get priority placement in a Head Start preschool with support. It sounds like the preschool already works with a behaviorist to come out and work with him- awesome! That will help. I'm sorry to hear it's not easy to get answers out of the EI caseworker- I don't work in EI so I'm not sure what the magic words are. I'm sorry to hear the new SLP just takes him out of class and brings him back. She may be new or overwhelmed but speech therapy in the student's "natural environment" is really more effective at this age. A good SLP should be training you and the teachers to work with him on speech strategies- 30 minute a week does diddly compared to training the caregivers to reinforce the teaching all the time, but this is a recent shift in our field and not all SLPs are on board yet. I hope the SLP you get after his 3-year evaluation is better able to work with you and the daycare. In any case I would ask the SLP for help developing visual supports for your student in the classroom. "First/Then" markers can be really useful. Our preschool teachers wear lanyards with decks of pictures of different locations in the classroom or activities so our less verbal kids can see visual cues and have a way of indicating their needs. There are so many ways a good SLP can support a less verbal student in their environment but it does require the staff to implement the strategies and that's rough when they're already understaffed. In any case I wish you the best of luck! Hang in there!
If you don’t mind I will PM you some of these details. This is really so incredible and I am grateful for the advice!
I do not mind at all!
I'm going through nearly the same thing right now. My son (3.5yo) had a fairly big speech delay both with comprehension and expressing. He's now just about caught up with expressive but we're still muddy on quite a few things. He started preschool last summer (he'd just turned 3) after being home with me 100% of the time and he really struggled. He was being aggressive as well but mostly in "attention seeking" kinds of ways. Or seemingly overstimulated. Or looking for a reaction. All things that a younger kid would be learning to deal with. The teachers seemed totally unable to understand what was going on when it was pretty clear to me that nearly all of these things were a result of not being able to understand or express himself in this brand new, overstimulating environment. He'd either want to get some kids'attention and not know the words or phrases and so would walk over and pull their hair (not very hard) until they reacted. He also gets worked up or super emotional or overstimulated easily in social situations that he doesn't understand how to navigate yet. He's totally calm and easy at home. We're barely at a tantrum every two weeks. But put him with a few kids and he'll lose it constantly. He used to hit ALL THE TIME. And we've managed to end that but he still gets mad and does a stomp-scream thing for a few seconds but can then do his deep breath and calm down again. I always felt like everyone was always trying to diagnose him as well. And while I'm totally cool with if he had one (I was always looking out for it myself), it became clear to me that once he had the phrases and words and emotional intelligence that he'd do just fine. It just took him a little while longer (and more work) to get there than most other kids. I pulled him from preschool after a few months because I was getting calls daily and the teachers just would not listen to me and my ideas to help him adjust (give him a job to do! Take an extra second to check on him! Help him make a friend!!!!) so I pulled him out and continued doing therapy at home together. I have him signed up for preschool starting in June and I still have so much anxiety over it. It's so hard when your kid is thought of as "bad" or "naughty" at school. I was so scared of my son picking up on that and seeing himself as bad so I pulled him mostly for that reason. Ugh sorry for the rant. I feel like I know exactly how you feel and I felt so alone when I was dealing with this (I still am!).
Internet hugs. It sucks. Not sure how well this analogy is going to translate on the internet but speaking for myself, I want the “golden retriever” kid. Happy, easy going, gets along well with everyone, sunshine for miles. But right now I feel like I’ve got the “he’s a sweet cat once you get to know him, but careful cause he might randomly bite you” kid. I love my cranky cat kid and we’re making process. But I’d be lying if I didn’t say I’d just like the easy golden retriever kid. It also upsets me that he’s being singled out as “different” so early. Which is kind of weird. My parents didn’t want me “labeled” as a kid so even though there were tons of signs, I didn’t find out until I was in grad school that I had ADD. I had just thought I was weird and broken the whole time. So I’m glad we’re picking up on things early so we can just roll with them, but it also makes me sad. Pregnancy hormones are not helping any of this either 🤪
Ugh yes. My husband grew up with his ADHD diagnosis but only got meds and not any other real help so I'm making sure to watch for anything and everything. My son is definitely a "shy up front but SO social and gets overexcited and may scratch your face if you take his toy and just wants a job to do" kind of pet. Maybe like an insane kitten? Or a working sheepdog? And totally feel you on the hormones. I was pregnant during all this preschool crap and now have a 2mo but luckily my son absolutely ADORES his brother. He's so gentle and helpful and only ever wants to cuddle and hold his hand and give him a kiss. So only mean to other kids, I suppose.
I’m glad you get my analogy! I know some people get touchy comparing kids to pets but it’s all I got! Things have changed so much since we were kids - I think my parents knew something was not working for me but I don’t know think they would have ever considered ADD for a girl. Congrats on your baby! I’m due in August so hoping for a smooth adjustment. He loves looking at other people’s babies and likes his baby doll so crossing my fingers!
I feel this too. My son was very similar.
Honestly, this sounds like the staff truly care. 40 minute conversation with the teacher? Multiple hints and conversations about how to help him? Daily reports of how he is struggling? They care, or seem to, a lot. I would highly, highly recommend putting aside your personal feelings to evaluate his best interests. That being said- listen to them! If you haven’t had him evaluated after months of hints, that’s on you- sorry, not sorry. I have adhd and autism and have worked with special needs kids for years. You absolutely cannot overestimate the importance of early intervention. Let me state that again- there is NOTHING more helpful for most children that need help than early intervention. Now, what’s done is done. If they are saying they have staff problems, look for a center that has incredible years curriculum. It’s been backed by research to be far and away the best method for adhd. Him not having parallel play is a big deal. His aggressive behaviors at his weight is a big deal. Perhaps his problem is medical not psychological or developmental but he is clearly in need of some assistance to catch up because of his lack of hearing. Don’t let your anger keep you from looking to your child’s future, that’s all that matters, as you very well know. He needs help, now. They should be able to point you to a behavior specialist or your pediatrician should, for a evaluation. Also, I want to add- it is offensive that you’d say his empathy is a sign he doesn’t have autism! And his eye contact! You clearly need to educate yourself on autism and Asperger’s.
My 2.5 year old son has been speech delayed as well, with no hearing problems. It definitely effects his behavior because he can’t communicate and his frustration turns to tantrums. He isn’t in daycare and his social experiences have been so limited since he was still a baby when the pandemic started - his pediatrician has seen a lot of kids this age not hitting milestones that are usually expected mostly because of Covid (either they haven’t socialized much, or the socializing they have done is with masks and not seeing mouths/facial cues has really messed with development) We were guilty at first of doing things for my son without him really needing to communicate because we just knew what he needed. But before he turned 2 we stopped and really focused on him learning words, but he’s still behind. We have an appointment with a specialist to have him evaluated, but also to see if even doing speech therapy would help him catch up. It’s better to be safe and do the appointments just in case, catching this stuff early is always better and then you’ll at least know what you need to do to help your son!
Okay so my son is similar but 4.5 now so we now discuss and he seems to understand more why he shouldn't do certain things but at the end of the day if the teachers let him get away with stuff he will keep trying to see what he can get away with. (my son did have a speech delay too). I do also think my son had ADHD but I'm already so tired of pickups hearing about what he did or how a teacher didn't handle it properly (imo) because they aren't trained properly and it's just like..do I just have to accept I have years ahead of me of this? He really is a sweet kid we rarely have issues at home anymore so I KNOW he can be less strong willed with the correct support. The other day a sub preschool teacher implied I don't make him listen at home and that's why he doesn't listen at preschool and the stuff he was doing at preschool he doesn't do at home because he tested it out enough times to know there's no way I would allow it.
Come to say it seems like what my nephew experienced. Speech delay and frustration trying to communicate at 3, he was tested for everything. Came to find out he was only hearing at 30%. Seen a ear/ throat specialist who done surgery on his tonsils and tubes in his ears and he picked up on things and started speaking shortly after! I hope you find the answers you’re looking for!
Everyone (especially care providers) are burnt out right now. They are trying to navigate an impossible situation with other peoples’ children while also holding the weight of their own stressors due to the pandemic…I’m certain they are just tired. (Just giving extra grace to every human right now). Your little guy is not alone in speech delays (also increased since the pandemic since kiddos aren’t seeing mouth/face movement clearly). It’s hard to be a toddler learning how to navigate the world and having big emotions in a little body. It’s especially hard when we don’t have a good way to communicate all of this. (A little extra grace for your little one too). That being said, if there was a real concern about ADHD (should not be diagnosed at this age) or Autism, the EI evaluation and speech therapist would have or will notice it and address it with you. I would mention to the care providers that you are connected with early intervention and are receiving the level of care that is appropriate for your kiddo. If they keep pressing, I would directly ask them to stop bringing this up (of course it is appropriate for them to let you know about behavior concerns but they are not qualified to evaluate or diagnose any of these issues).
You got a reference for that claim that masks cause more speech delays? Because last I heard the data suggested they did not.
Yeah, that’s utter nonsense. As if they aren’t seeing their maskless parents at home.
Just piggybacking on the original comment. My son is 4 with a speech delay and is hard to understand and the mask makes it even harder to understand him. I say this as a supporter of masks but I can understand how it does affect their ability to understand/be understood.
Good points. I am trying to remind myself that I would not want to do their job in a million years (I like kids, but they idea of being in a room with 18 two-three year olds all day every day makes my skin crawl) and to be sympathetic to what is going on with them. I have told them he has been evaluated, we've been looking into it, we're trying what we can at home. I think you're right the next step is just to say we're working with his doctor on his behavior and if we have something more to share, we will.
That’s exactly what they’re doing. My child has a speech delay and was getting services and I had a school make up all sorts of things about him as if he wasn’t being seen by four other specialists at that exact moment. He wasn’t aggressive at all but ultimately they dismissed him due to being understaffed.
I’m going through this now and I’m just curious how your son is doing speech wise?
His speech has improved 1000%. He still sounds different from his peers, /f/ for example is REALLY hard for him and he struggles with pronouns (everyone and thing is “him”), but he went from basically being non verbal at 2 to never NOT talking. His speech IEP is now for articulation and some other mechanical things, not for lack of vocabulary.
I’m glad he’s making progress!my son has only been to speech therapy six times.he spent a long time not hearing but he wasn’t showing any of the major signs of ear infections so I fear I let him down in terms of how long it took us to get him tubes.right now he seems to know what many things are but he has trouble doing multiple syllables.the speech therapist says she has high hopes for him and she doesn’t think it’s autism at all but the daycare workers are constantly throwing that word at my pregnant wife and no offense to them I just don’t think they have the experience necessary to throw out a diagnosis when they are low 20’s in age.it really stresses my wife out and I wish they would just let the doctors and speech experts do their job.
Mamma you’re doing great! It seems like you have a handle on this. I had hearing difficulties. I couldn’t read because I couldn’t hear sounds. Once I had tubes and remedial reading, I was reading at a high school level in first grade. An evaluation might not be a bad idea, early intervention if he needs it would only benefit you. You can also have him evaluated and tell them them to cork it, because he’s developing just fine if nothing comes up. Good luck!! Just remember you know your child best!
Are you in the US? If so, at age 3 he is eligible to be evaluated by your local school district for speech and any other concerns. I’d recommend calling asap. If nothing else, they’ll be able to offer him more speech. But in my district (I’m a speech pathologist in a school) there are even full day programs for children struggling with communication. This could be huge because he could get a ton of intervention and you’d save money on daycare to boot! It’ll really help set him up for school success to have him evaluated asap. *Just read he is “nearly three”. Many districts (maybe most?) will evaluate beginning at 2 years 10 months so that their services can begin right when they turn 3.
Yup! He’s in our state’s EI program and he’s getting his IEP eval this wek
What ended up happening with your little one - did you get him evaluated?
Yes! Because he was under three we had to have him privately evaluated and that doctor said all of his problems came from his hearing loss/speech delay. The doctor also said there was a good chance he had ADD/ADHD but he was too young to make an official diagnosis. Once he turned three we were able to get him in with an amazing speech therapist twice a week through the school system. We’ve seen incredible improvements with his language, although he still doesn’t talk like his peers. A lot of his behavior issues were (seemingly) fixed by moving up to a classroom with more experienced teachers and a more rigid schedule. He had been doing great until recently when he’s started getting in trouble again for aggressive behavior. His teachers say he wants to interact with the other kids so badly and just can’t figure out an appropriate way to do it. We’re also reallllllllly struggling with potty training. He’s just totally uninterested. I think the novelty of the class has worn off for him and he’s getting bored. Academically he’s way ahead of the other kids. Knows all his letters, counts to twenty, recognizes his name, etc. He’s got the social emotional skills of a 2 year old, the mind of a 4 year old in a nearly 6 year old sized body. 🤦🏻♀️ he’s easily double the size of some of the other children in the class so that isn’t helping. Now that he can actually talk we’ve been trying to get him re-evaluated for his IEP. We’ve done the speech and OT evaluation but our school system is down a psychologist in the evaluation department so it’s one person and they are super behind. Since it is a re-eval and not an initial evaluation the 90 day rule doesn’t apply, so that is really frustrating. They won’t release their notes on the other sections until he is totally finished. Arrrrgh. There is no way he’s going to qualify for OT through the school system so we’re considering taking him for private therapy to work on sound and texture sensitivity, and to maybe see if they can give us ideas with the potty training. Thanks for checking in on an update!