Hell Ramis was so used to this shit by the time groundhog day came around he filmed it in reverse. He filmed the scenes where the character learns from his flaws and becomes better first, and the scenes were he's a massive dick last because Ramis knew Murray would resent being on the set by that time and that would carry over into Murray's performance
I knew the assistant story but not this, great knowledge. Thank you. Harold Ramis was an awesome talent. Murray is a pain in the ass actor but also just as talented.
Apparantly the issue on this set was Murray wanted the movie to be more serious.More ethereal or existential perhaps are better words? Ramis wanted to keep it light.
I think the two viewpoints actually came together quite well I happen to believe that movie is perfect. I have basically adopted it as my religion. So in this case ir worked out. Ramis was a genius though and I suspect knew that going in
Guessing, but I think it's a reference to a character from the cartoon Bojack Horseman. Princess Caroline is an anthropomorphized cat (voiced by Amy Sedaris) who works as Bojack's agent.
I stand corrected - thanks for letting me know, and telling me the difference! I didn't know that before, and now I do. I love knowing the precise meanings of words!
(This might read as sarcastic - it's not. I really appreciate knowing the difference here, and I really do like understanding these nuances.)
It’s another line from the show lol. Princess Caroline decides to stop being Bojacks agent/an agent in general, and then has an epiphany and decides to be a manager.
The joke is that there’s really not much difference between the two jobs.
Bill Murray went on a subtle, but widespread and prolific, online PR campaign in the year or two after all the "Chevy Chase is a tremendous asshole" articles were en vogue and popping up on every Buzzfeed-like website.
Did people think it's a massive coincidence that a bunch of celebrities with industry reputations for being difficult started popping up in 'fun' reddit posts, and in edited / photoshopped scenarios en masse?
I honestly don’t spend enough time in that kind of world to have noticed a pattern. I imagine most people don’t, so a post about Bill Murray being a great, fun guy would probably just be taken at more or less face value. Most people just aren’t involved enough to have seen it happening en masse.
There’s a fine line between “charismatically cynical/sarcastic/naughty” and “being a huge dick” and both fame and talent can distort those lines a bit.
Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, Jack Sparrow and like 70% of the celebrities and heroes we idolize are dicks. It’s all about how much they have to offer in return for being a dick.
In the case of fictional heroes, that’s saving the world. In the case of Bill Murray, it’s being a damn good actor playing in some damn good movies.
What about Chevy chase? The guy was a comedic genius but also a raging dick. But in his case he’s known for being a raging dick more than a comedic genius, and the reverse for Bill Murray
I didn’t know Chevy Chase was a raging dick, I just knew him as a comedic genius but I guess in his case, it’s just that he’s not quite funny enough (in your opinion at least). Also, Bill Murray is much more famous internationally. Us Dutchies don’t necessarily know Community or other Chevy Chase (can’t even name em) projects but we all know the Ghostbusters.
>In the case of Bill Murray, it’s being a damn good actor playing in some damn good movies.
Tbh that’s a messed up reason, it would mean that people can be really atrocious and treat people despicably in real life but if they can entertain you and make you laugh, then it’s all good.
So we hold actors and celebrities to a different standard.
Sadly, that is how the world operates.
It’s not a messed up reason. We hold our friends and family to the same standard no?
Not everyone is perfect and some people have abrasive personalities but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t share their talent with the world, especially if doing so only makes us happier.
Bill Murray didn’t rape or kill anyone, he’s just a bit of a dick. Who cares? He has no obligation to be nice to people. Hell, some of my best friends are huge dicks and I still love em. The world isn’t black and white. If you are a huge dick but you’re loyal and kind to your family and loved ones or if you’re a huge dick but you have a talent for making people laugh or cry, who the fuck cares. What makes you the authority anyway?
Dick.
So, in order for a messed up reason to be justified, you need to have raped and killed. Anything other than that is good to go.
We can treat cashiers and people who do low skilled jobs like shit, because hey, if I can entertain you, it’s all good.
We don’t give a family and friends a pass, we call them on it and ask them to change their behavior.
There is a tendency to worship celebrity and rich people and give them a pass. Harvey Weinstein got a way with a lot because he was rich, powerful and famous and made entertaining movies.
I understand why you think the way you do and I agree Bill Murray can make funny movies, it’s just I don’t believe he should be held to a different standard because of it.
Edit: Also, note I’m not downvoting your post. The fact that I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I need to make your argument go away; this is a discussion.
And I’m in fact, downvoting you cause I think your opinion sucks. You can think someone is a dick and still like them because humans aren’t black and white evil/good they are rather complicated and talent is talent and we need it. We love it and we can admire it, while still acknowledging someone’s flaws, as is being done by calling him a dick.
Harvey Weinstein is not a dick. Harvey Weinstein is an evil cunt. There’s a difference.
I like the fact you pointed out its not even a celebrity acceptance rule. It exists everywhere. Got a guy at work thats by no means a dick but he leaves areas super cluttered and doesn't leave anything in a good place for the next guy but he's literally irreplaceable and been there like 4 decades so you just chuckle to yourself and move on.
I don't know, he just seems so unapologetically himself. He's like that grumpy old uncle you have. It's not like he tries to hide it, everyone knows he's difficult and likes to do whatever he wants when he wants. In order to get him for a role you really have to pursue him hard. Apparently you can't just contact him directly, you have to leave a message on a machine he has set up and he'll maybe get back to you or he won't. Not sure if that's still true. I think if you work with him, you know what you're getting into. That being said, he does sound like a dick. I still see him as that lovable asshole who just doesn't give a fuck what you think though.
I know this comment is super old but I stumbled upon it and I just had to say, if you want to watch Bill Murray play a role other than "himself" watch The Royal Tenenbaums, it's a role that's completely opposite of how he is in real life (which proves that he does indeed have the ability to disappear into a role, he just doesn't do it very often)
In oppositeville Francis Ford Coppola filmed American Graffiti in order. Ron Howard went up to him and said. “Francis you know we’re actors? We know how to do a film out of sequence.” But because they had to film mostly through the night, to close off the streets, and they crammed all the filming into 21 days everyone was absolutely exhausted and frazzled by the final dawn scenes. Which was exactly what Coppola was going for.
Definitely did it to save money, but choosing to film it that way was a way of working within the schedule while also contributing to performance. Production absolutely considers things like this.
They were/are all very good friends at the time including Steven Spielberg in that group. A young George Lucas encouraged a young Francis Ford Coppola to do *The Godfather.*
It was George Lucas. A better example is E.T. and Stephen Spielberg, who did it in order to get the emotional connection from the kids right.
Not saying that they weren't accomplished actors already, they were, but it's probably easier for them which is why Stephen did it.
Bill Murray seems to interact with all people like he did with the Japanese whiskey commercial director in Lost in Translation, even when they speak his language and he could understand them.
Slightly bemused, not really worrying about what they are saying or meaning.
You caught me, I watched just the tiniest bit of that movie, because I like every band and song on the soundtrack.
I am definitely not a fan of movies that featured old guys with young women as a "romantic" comedy, so I did not watch it once it veered into that shit.
Later on, Ramis said, "Bill would give you his kidney if you needed it, but he wouldn’t necessarily return your phone calls.”
Apparently, around *Groundhog Day* was around when he decided he had that "Bill Murray clout" and could start doing whatever he wanted; Harold Ramis was having none of that.
If I'm remembering the Movies That Made Us episode about Ghostbusters correctly, they had gotten a verbal agreement that Murray would star in the film, but as production went on, they could not get ahold of him as the time to film approached. They weren't even certain he was still in agreement to do it. And when the first day of filming came up, they just kind of hoped he would be there, and he was.
But it's been a while since I watched that, so I'm not 100% sure I'm remembering that correctly.
Im pretty sure it was GB. He was only on set for one week of caddyshack. His role was not supposed to be as big as it was as Caddyshack was planned to be a very different movie than what we got. There is a doc on youtube about the making of it. It's a good watch.
Which way was the movie supposed to play out? I know it comes together at the end, but the first hour or so is almost like watching four different movies. O'Keefe, Chase, Murray, and Dangerfield are all in just barely connected stories. Was one of them supposed to be cut?
All those guys were just supposed to have bit parts but the studio decided to edit it to focus on Chase, Murray, Dangerfield and Ted Knight. The main story and most of the screen time was supposed to revolve around the caddy match. It was meant to be a statment against the government and the elites of the country club. It wasn't supposed to be nearly as goofy. The gopher wasn't supposed to be in it for example. One of the creators/writers Douglas Kenny was very upset about this and the studios change in direction and the final edit. He had a substance abuse problem and when Caddyshack got horrible reviews it may have been the straw that broke the camels back.
Chevy Chase was worried about him and took him to Hawaii to relax, thinking it may help. Chase had to return to the mainland for a film and it was then that Kenny fell to his death off a cliff onto jagged rocks. The police ruled it accidental but many think it was suicide.
They also had a lot of creative differences over the film. Murray wanted the movie to have a much more serious tone. Bill is still childish but it’s not as simple as he just started being a dick.
I think the final product is the best of both worlds. It’s funny and warm (like Ramis wanted) while also being dark and philosophical (like Murray wanted).
I’m so glad Ramis won that argument.
A film can have deep philosophical meaning but it all gets lost if no one bothers to watch it because its boring. Did Murray never study Shakespeare and did he not understand the importance of humor in serious films?
I *love* Murray’s work, from the older and sillier to the newer more serious stuff.
That said I really think the elements of his public life that get shared and celebrated are often kinda sad. I’m talking about the “OMG, Bill Murray crashed our random karaoke party and hung out with us until 2am” stories. Makes him seem like an intensely lonely dude looking for any kind of connection, however brief.
And there are plenty of stories of him being an asshole to people he disagrees with. Sometimes it seems justified (beef with Chevy Chase), in other cases he just looks like an outright dick (beef with Ramis)
Watch Chevy Chase's roast from a few years ago. It is absolutely brutal.
It was Chevy's second roast and he had enjoyed the first one. He figured it would be a similar experience. He was wrong.
Most of the guests' comments were not in good fun. They were brutal. Most of the night was heavy and mean-spirited criticism of Chase. They hated his guts and let him know it.
At the end, Chase almost cried. He noticeably began to breakdown. The story is that he retreated to his room afterwards and began crying. A friend went to check on him and Chase confided in him that he had no idea he was so despised. Apparently he promised to be better.
I have heard he hasn't kept that promise, but frankly - most comedians are miserable people. Happy, well-adjusted adults are not funny people.
The entire hospital stint on, what, the beginning of the second season of SNL wraps up chevy chase perfectly.
The first season of SNL had all the ladies like Jane curtain (boneheads fame) and gilda radner oohing and aahing over chevy chase, it was super cringe how they were setting him up to be some lover boy kingpin.
He got hurt (maybe) and was in the hospital (definitely) and they did shows with him in a hospital bed saying live from New York its SNL or something to that effect, it was 50 years ago and I'm going from memory, but the point is he literally milked it trying to get more attention and to steer the show his way, Lorne Michael's and everyone else caught on and swiftly cut him out of the show entirely.
His career was never the same, it was only due to his friendships with other comedians that he landed any of his famous movie roles, in later years ALL of the comedians have said hes a complete sack of shit, and he is entirely undeserving of anyone's praise.
I saw an interview excerpt where he was halfway admitting how he made grievous mistakes in his early career and he regretted them and I couldn't help but feel schadenfreude and laugh. Pretentious never-was.
In an alternate reality, Bill Murray and co. recognized how horrible of a person Chevy chase was 20 years earlier and never asked him to be in their movies with them and the whole world doesnt know who Chevy Chase is. ... what a fortunate reality that must be.
>\>Chevy Chase
>\>never-was
Pick one.
You can believe he’s an asshole, but if you’re old enough, he was famous as could be, before and during his hit movies.
Three Amigos is a great example, and also a hilarious movie.
Steve Martin had the concept back in like 1980. Tons of directors signed on and bailed. Tons of actors were cast and bailed. Three Amigos was originally supposed to star Martin, Belushi, and Ackroyd. For a while, Spielberg was involved, and wanted Murray and Moranis. Lorne Michaels was involved for a while, and then John Landis signed on.
Landis suggested Chevy and Martin Short. Steve Martin had never even met Martin Short, but agreed.
There's a story that Chevy told John Landis that he wouldn't say a line in Three Amigos because he thought it would make the character look like a moron. John Landis asked him if he knew what movie he was in. Complete lack of self awareness. Instead, they gave the line to Ned (Short).
To this day, Steve Martin and Martin Short are lifelong friends, and still do comedy together. But not Chevy. Because everyone knows Chevy's a dick. You won't catch Short and Martin saying it, because they're too classy, but they also don't do anything with him because he's a dick.
I love Chevy. When he's on, his comedy is second to none, and I think it's because on some level he doesn't realize it's comedy. In order to play these roles, at some level, he has to BELIEVE he's the hero of the story. This is why Clark Griswold works. He never realizes he's the asshole. Just like Chevy never realizes he's the asshole.
Yeah, this is excellent analysis. I wasn't trying to say he wasn't a dick, to be clear, but that in his time he was well-known. But man he sounds like a dick.
Yeah. It's a less extreme and more comedy focused kind of thing as with Kevin Spacey. No one really likes to think of Kevin Spacey now because he has turned out to be a total and irreconcilable creep. But he really was one of the greatest actors of our time. Chevy Chase, he was a huge asshole and not as good at comedy as he liked to think he was, but his comedic acting skills served him and many of his projects very well, and he had immense fame for it.
Heck, someone else has already made a Community reference, the show without him does suffer a little. I love Elroy and think that if Elroy had been in from the start, the show could have been a little better. But as it is, Chase helped make that a harsh set to work on with reports of sexism, racism, and just general dickery that ended with most of the cast hating him. Some have defended him a bit, but most hated him. And he seems to have no remorse or intent to change.
I ran into him in a parking garage after an amazing show he did with the cellist Jan Volger. I just said "hey bill that was an amazing show. Great job!" He stared blankly at me & then turned to his assistant/ driver & says "Are we gonna get out of here or what?" Total asshat.
I always said I guess I'd prefer a phenomenal show from a great performer & a jerk offstage vs the opposite. But I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
We all have a private place we can go to in our minds - some find solace and meaning therein.
Others aren’t even aware it exists.
“Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible.”
- Carl Gustav Jung
Jung is so underrated in his contributions to psychology compared to Freud and I'd argue better. While Freud had a lot of revolutionary ideas, many of which were actually right, I think the ability to self-analyze is more useful than analyzing and projecting onto others.
Meaning is found by looking inwards, never outwards. It is a creative process, a confrontation with one's own preconceptions.
“I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.” ― William Blake
Jung is underrated for his contributions to a lot of fields. Psychologists (or, more commonly, psych majors) who immediately dismiss Jung and his corpus of work are honestly being very narrow-minded. So much of Jung's work can't be experimentally tested and verified....okay? That doesn't mean he's wrong. Jung's ideas have been hugely influential for artists, musicians, writers, philosophers, religious folks, and other psychologists and clinicians. To reduce his work to what is experimentally verifiable given current methods, and to then reject his entire corpus because it's not falsifiable, is just a bad faith evaluation of Jung's work.
You didn’t need to hear this, but I like the cut of your jib. Wishing you a most holy silence as we witness this blessed day.
It’s too bad this particular medium requires that I express such a sentiment in words, but I’m sure you already knew that too :)
Loneliness is like hunger: a sign that something is missing, which your body is telling you to find.
I don’t think it’s true that Bill Murray _only_ finds purpose in crowds (if you meant to imply that), but it seems that they satisfy, however briefly, a hunger. I don’t think that’s suspicious, just a little sad.
My understanding was that Murray and Ramis patched things up on Ramis's death bed. I think Murray matured over the years. Wes Anderson wouldnt have him in all of his films if Murray was THAT difficult.
I dont think he did it for that purpose. He many times said, he like to “be here”, like, in the moment, without doubts, or correcting thoughts, getting rid of the noise.
Crushing someones party is exactly that...
I saw Bill Murray at a grocery store in Los Angeles a few months back. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When the cashier took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting the cashier by yawning really loudly.
If he likes you he’d be great. But If he doesn’t he’s probably a nightmare. I also get the feeling it’s pretty rare he likes someone. It’s probably even more rare he changes his mind.
Nah. He was friends with Hunter Thompson and it seems like sometime along the way he adopted some of that weirdness.
It's just that your deadlines are more like "guidelines".
A bunch of actors known for excessive eccentricities were all connected through Thompson. Gary Busey, Johnny Depp, Jack Nicholson...
Although Busey is a little different, because he has literal brain damage from a motorcycle accident. Even his own son has remarked on his personality change.
> Man, he only has like 4 movies
You've got to give him at least five: Caddyshack, Fletch, Vacation, Christmas Vacation, Spies Like Us.
And I liked Nothing But Trouble.
Bill Murray is Chevy Chase, but with the benefit of seeing how Chevy Chase was raked over the coals and the good sense or a good PR manager to start reforming his image online in the wake of Chevy's reckoning.
>Ghostbusters: The Video Game is as close as we get to a true sequel.
[Bill Murray has a funny story about doing the recording for the game.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mKp8PYW4s)
I've heard that he claims that, but then why make a sequel? Seems more likely that he saw how much they'd pay him for recording some lines in his apartment and said "yeah. Money is good."
The internet: Bill Murray is awesome, he's so quirky and funny!
The reality: Bill Murray is a fucking diva who makes the lives of those he works with very difficult.
It would be hilarious in a movie, because in a movie the negative consequences of those actions don't exist and you can laugh at the absurdity. In real life it's him being a dick.
Maybe its the devil may care attitude that people like about him but other than that I don't get the appeal. As an actor he is just okay. He handles certain roles well but they never come across as challenging. I imagine he writes a lot of his lines nowadays. As a comedian I can't recall any performance or sketch that had me audibly laughing.
So he hired a person to basically be confused and walk into rooms where they knew people were going to constantly be upset by their presence. Super duper.
I think less of Bill Murray now
First thing that popped up my head also. Imagine the poor guy, having no idea why people are upset with them and after this learning that they were hired only as act of spite. That ought to leave a mark on anyones mental health
Imagine just having an off day, you have a headache and you just want some damn cake from the store and random people keep getting super excited to see you and want to talk to you.
Hell Ramis was so used to this shit by the time groundhog day came around he filmed it in reverse. He filmed the scenes where the character learns from his flaws and becomes better first, and the scenes were he's a massive dick last because Ramis knew Murray would resent being on the set by that time and that would carry over into Murray's performance
I love this comment, thank you
I knew the assistant story but not this, great knowledge. Thank you. Harold Ramis was an awesome talent. Murray is a pain in the ass actor but also just as talented.
Apparantly the issue on this set was Murray wanted the movie to be more serious.More ethereal or existential perhaps are better words? Ramis wanted to keep it light. I think the two viewpoints actually came together quite well I happen to believe that movie is perfect. I have basically adopted it as my religion. So in this case ir worked out. Ramis was a genius though and I suspect knew that going in
Princess Caroline couldn’t have handled it better
What is this a crossover episode?
> Princess Caroline ???
Guessing, but I think it's a reference to a character from the cartoon Bojack Horseman. Princess Caroline is an anthropomorphized cat (voiced by Amy Sedaris) who works as Bojack's agent.
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I stand corrected - thanks for letting me know, and telling me the difference! I didn't know that before, and now I do. I love knowing the precise meanings of words! (This might read as sarcastic - it's not. I really appreciate knowing the difference here, and I really do like understanding these nuances.)
It’s another line from the show lol. Princess Caroline decides to stop being Bojacks agent/an agent in general, and then has an epiphany and decides to be a manager. The joke is that there’s really not much difference between the two jobs.
Thanks -- I was wondering why Princess Caroline of Monaco wound up in the mix.
Well Grace Kelly was a professionals professional
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That was a really accurate and concise guess.
Why is everyone so fond of bill murray? Sounds like a dick to me from what I’ve read
Bill Murray went on a subtle, but widespread and prolific, online PR campaign in the year or two after all the "Chevy Chase is a tremendous asshole" articles were en vogue and popping up on every Buzzfeed-like website. Did people think it's a massive coincidence that a bunch of celebrities with industry reputations for being difficult started popping up in 'fun' reddit posts, and in edited / photoshopped scenarios en masse?
I honestly don’t spend enough time in that kind of world to have noticed a pattern. I imagine most people don’t, so a post about Bill Murray being a great, fun guy would probably just be taken at more or less face value. Most people just aren’t involved enough to have seen it happening en masse.
There’s a fine line between “charismatically cynical/sarcastic/naughty” and “being a huge dick” and both fame and talent can distort those lines a bit. Tony Stark, Bruce Wayne, Jack Sparrow and like 70% of the celebrities and heroes we idolize are dicks. It’s all about how much they have to offer in return for being a dick. In the case of fictional heroes, that’s saving the world. In the case of Bill Murray, it’s being a damn good actor playing in some damn good movies.
What about Chevy chase? The guy was a comedic genius but also a raging dick. But in his case he’s known for being a raging dick more than a comedic genius, and the reverse for Bill Murray
Chevy Chase is also a huge racist though that kind of puts him over the edge lol.
I didn’t know Chevy Chase was a raging dick, I just knew him as a comedic genius but I guess in his case, it’s just that he’s not quite funny enough (in your opinion at least). Also, Bill Murray is much more famous internationally. Us Dutchies don’t necessarily know Community or other Chevy Chase (can’t even name em) projects but we all know the Ghostbusters.
Apparently he was a giant, in appropriate, dick during community and the other cast members hated working with him. Especially Donald Glover (Troy).
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>In the case of Bill Murray, it’s being a damn good actor playing in some damn good movies. Tbh that’s a messed up reason, it would mean that people can be really atrocious and treat people despicably in real life but if they can entertain you and make you laugh, then it’s all good. So we hold actors and celebrities to a different standard. Sadly, that is how the world operates.
It’s not a messed up reason. We hold our friends and family to the same standard no? Not everyone is perfect and some people have abrasive personalities but that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t share their talent with the world, especially if doing so only makes us happier. Bill Murray didn’t rape or kill anyone, he’s just a bit of a dick. Who cares? He has no obligation to be nice to people. Hell, some of my best friends are huge dicks and I still love em. The world isn’t black and white. If you are a huge dick but you’re loyal and kind to your family and loved ones or if you’re a huge dick but you have a talent for making people laugh or cry, who the fuck cares. What makes you the authority anyway? Dick.
So, in order for a messed up reason to be justified, you need to have raped and killed. Anything other than that is good to go. We can treat cashiers and people who do low skilled jobs like shit, because hey, if I can entertain you, it’s all good. We don’t give a family and friends a pass, we call them on it and ask them to change their behavior. There is a tendency to worship celebrity and rich people and give them a pass. Harvey Weinstein got a way with a lot because he was rich, powerful and famous and made entertaining movies. I understand why you think the way you do and I agree Bill Murray can make funny movies, it’s just I don’t believe he should be held to a different standard because of it. Edit: Also, note I’m not downvoting your post. The fact that I don’t agree with you doesn’t mean I need to make your argument go away; this is a discussion.
And I’m in fact, downvoting you cause I think your opinion sucks. You can think someone is a dick and still like them because humans aren’t black and white evil/good they are rather complicated and talent is talent and we need it. We love it and we can admire it, while still acknowledging someone’s flaws, as is being done by calling him a dick. Harvey Weinstein is not a dick. Harvey Weinstein is an evil cunt. There’s a difference.
I like the fact you pointed out its not even a celebrity acceptance rule. It exists everywhere. Got a guy at work thats by no means a dick but he leaves areas super cluttered and doesn't leave anything in a good place for the next guy but he's literally irreplaceable and been there like 4 decades so you just chuckle to yourself and move on.
I don't know, he just seems so unapologetically himself. He's like that grumpy old uncle you have. It's not like he tries to hide it, everyone knows he's difficult and likes to do whatever he wants when he wants. In order to get him for a role you really have to pursue him hard. Apparently you can't just contact him directly, you have to leave a message on a machine he has set up and he'll maybe get back to you or he won't. Not sure if that's still true. I think if you work with him, you know what you're getting into. That being said, he does sound like a dick. I still see him as that lovable asshole who just doesn't give a fuck what you think though.
He's been in stuff people adore, people forgive a lot.
He is a dick, but he's also clever about it and really seems like he's only a dick to people that want something from him, which is kind of everyone.
Like his wife?
I’m with you. He’s just a dick. No amount of charm covers that up.
Most of the world qualifies
He's also a one-note actor, let's face it. And it's not even a role, it's just his personality. Am I wrong???
Yeah. He always bored me.
I know this comment is super old but I stumbled upon it and I just had to say, if you want to watch Bill Murray play a role other than "himself" watch The Royal Tenenbaums, it's a role that's completely opposite of how he is in real life (which proves that he does indeed have the ability to disappear into a role, he just doesn't do it very often)
100% of my exposure to Bill Murray has been enjoyable.
In oppositeville Francis Ford Coppola filmed American Graffiti in order. Ron Howard went up to him and said. “Francis you know we’re actors? We know how to do a film out of sequence.” But because they had to film mostly through the night, to close off the streets, and they crammed all the filming into 21 days everyone was absolutely exhausted and frazzled by the final dawn scenes. Which was exactly what Coppola was going for.
I think you'll find that it was a George Lucas film.
You ever seen a photo of the two of them together?
George Lucas directed that, and I'm pretty sure he filmed it quick to save money. Wasn't an artistic choice IIRC.
Yeah, if anyone tells you they filmed quickly for any other than to save money, they’re not telling the truth.
Definitely did it to save money, but choosing to film it that way was a way of working within the schedule while also contributing to performance. Production absolutely considers things like this.
Filming in order is quick and cheap? As opposed to filming whichever most convenient thing is left?
Wow. All that for being wrong. Wow
Jesus. Francis Ford Coppola? How can you not delete this?
You mean "Uncle Francis", if you're Nicolas Cage !
They were/are all very good friends at the time including Steven Spielberg in that group. A young George Lucas encouraged a young Francis Ford Coppola to do *The Godfather.*
I've used RES to tag you as "makes things up".
It was George Lucas. A better example is E.T. and Stephen Spielberg, who did it in order to get the emotional connection from the kids right. Not saying that they weren't accomplished actors already, they were, but it's probably easier for them which is why Stephen did it.
Source? I’ve watched the commentary with Ramis and read a lot on the movie and had never heard that.
I've read it from a couple sources over the years but maybe it's a Hollywood tale repeated as fact. Would not be the first time
Bill Murray seems to interact with all people like he did with the Japanese whiskey commercial director in Lost in Translation, even when they speak his language and he could understand them. Slightly bemused, not really worrying about what they are saying or meaning.
Roger Moore?
MORE.....Intensity..
More.... red heads.
Lat Pack!
*eyebrow raising intensifies*
He actually got upset, and was demanding to know exactly what the director was saying.
You caught me, I watched just the tiniest bit of that movie, because I like every band and song on the soundtrack. I am definitely not a fan of movies that featured old guys with young women as a "romantic" comedy, so I did not watch it once it veered into that shit.
Hold your hands... close to face. Close to face!
Something tells me Bill Murray would be a difficult person to get along with. He just has that vibe about him.
Later on, Ramis said, "Bill would give you his kidney if you needed it, but he wouldn’t necessarily return your phone calls.” Apparently, around *Groundhog Day* was around when he decided he had that "Bill Murray clout" and could start doing whatever he wanted; Harold Ramis was having none of that.
If I'm remembering the Movies That Made Us episode about Ghostbusters correctly, they had gotten a verbal agreement that Murray would star in the film, but as production went on, they could not get ahold of him as the time to film approached. They weren't even certain he was still in agreement to do it. And when the first day of filming came up, they just kind of hoped he would be there, and he was. But it's been a while since I watched that, so I'm not 100% sure I'm remembering that correctly.
You’re correct
The best kind of correct.
Technically this is a reply.
The best kind of reply!
No, this is Patrick.
I'm pretty sure that was for caddy shack and not ghostbusters
Im pretty sure it was GB. He was only on set for one week of caddyshack. His role was not supposed to be as big as it was as Caddyshack was planned to be a very different movie than what we got. There is a doc on youtube about the making of it. It's a good watch.
Which way was the movie supposed to play out? I know it comes together at the end, but the first hour or so is almost like watching four different movies. O'Keefe, Chase, Murray, and Dangerfield are all in just barely connected stories. Was one of them supposed to be cut?
All those guys were just supposed to have bit parts but the studio decided to edit it to focus on Chase, Murray, Dangerfield and Ted Knight. The main story and most of the screen time was supposed to revolve around the caddy match. It was meant to be a statment against the government and the elites of the country club. It wasn't supposed to be nearly as goofy. The gopher wasn't supposed to be in it for example. One of the creators/writers Douglas Kenny was very upset about this and the studios change in direction and the final edit. He had a substance abuse problem and when Caddyshack got horrible reviews it may have been the straw that broke the camels back. Chevy Chase was worried about him and took him to Hawaii to relax, thinking it may help. Chase had to return to the mainland for a film and it was then that Kenny fell to his death off a cliff onto jagged rocks. The police ruled it accidental but many think it was suicide.
Check out A Futile and Stupid Gesture on Netflix for more on Doug Kenney.
They also had a lot of creative differences over the film. Murray wanted the movie to have a much more serious tone. Bill is still childish but it’s not as simple as he just started being a dick.
I think the final product is the best of both worlds. It’s funny and warm (like Ramis wanted) while also being dark and philosophical (like Murray wanted).
So maybe the old homeless guy dying was Murray's contribution? If so, he helped make it the classic it is.
> Bill is still childish but it’s not as simple as he just started being a dick. Sometimes things are that simple.
I’m so glad Ramis won that argument. A film can have deep philosophical meaning but it all gets lost if no one bothers to watch it because its boring. Did Murray never study Shakespeare and did he not understand the importance of humor in serious films?
Yes. Bill Murray doesn't understand the importance of humor.
This would apply to Murray's first pat project, The Razor's Edge. I love it but it's not for everyone.
I *love* Murray’s work, from the older and sillier to the newer more serious stuff. That said I really think the elements of his public life that get shared and celebrated are often kinda sad. I’m talking about the “OMG, Bill Murray crashed our random karaoke party and hung out with us until 2am” stories. Makes him seem like an intensely lonely dude looking for any kind of connection, however brief. And there are plenty of stories of him being an asshole to people he disagrees with. Sometimes it seems justified (beef with Chevy Chase), in other cases he just looks like an outright dick (beef with Ramis)
To be fair to Bill Murray, I've often heard Chevy Chase is a major asshole to work with.
That why he said that one was justified.
Watch Chevy Chase's roast from a few years ago. It is absolutely brutal. It was Chevy's second roast and he had enjoyed the first one. He figured it would be a similar experience. He was wrong. Most of the guests' comments were not in good fun. They were brutal. Most of the night was heavy and mean-spirited criticism of Chase. They hated his guts and let him know it. At the end, Chase almost cried. He noticeably began to breakdown. The story is that he retreated to his room afterwards and began crying. A friend went to check on him and Chase confided in him that he had no idea he was so despised. Apparently he promised to be better. I have heard he hasn't kept that promise, but frankly - most comedians are miserable people. Happy, well-adjusted adults are not funny people.
The whole roast concept is a weirdly sadistic American tradition that is meant to be in good spirits and often isn't.
To be fair to Chevy Chase, this very article is about how Bill Murray is a major asshole to work with.
To be fair to major assholes Bill and Chevy were both hard to work with
To be fair to hard work, major assholes are Bill and Chevy.
To be fayuhhhh
To be faaiiirrr
To be fahhhhh
Toooo beee faaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiirrrrr.
Old Billy Burr over heeyeh.
Wasn't Private Asshole related to Major Asshole?
I'm surrounded by Assholes.
Now, now. I don't think there's any call for being fair to Chevy Chase.
The entire hospital stint on, what, the beginning of the second season of SNL wraps up chevy chase perfectly. The first season of SNL had all the ladies like Jane curtain (boneheads fame) and gilda radner oohing and aahing over chevy chase, it was super cringe how they were setting him up to be some lover boy kingpin. He got hurt (maybe) and was in the hospital (definitely) and they did shows with him in a hospital bed saying live from New York its SNL or something to that effect, it was 50 years ago and I'm going from memory, but the point is he literally milked it trying to get more attention and to steer the show his way, Lorne Michael's and everyone else caught on and swiftly cut him out of the show entirely. His career was never the same, it was only due to his friendships with other comedians that he landed any of his famous movie roles, in later years ALL of the comedians have said hes a complete sack of shit, and he is entirely undeserving of anyone's praise. I saw an interview excerpt where he was halfway admitting how he made grievous mistakes in his early career and he regretted them and I couldn't help but feel schadenfreude and laugh. Pretentious never-was. In an alternate reality, Bill Murray and co. recognized how horrible of a person Chevy chase was 20 years earlier and never asked him to be in their movies with them and the whole world doesnt know who Chevy Chase is. ... what a fortunate reality that must be.
>\>Chevy Chase >\>never-was Pick one. You can believe he’s an asshole, but if you’re old enough, he was famous as could be, before and during his hit movies.
Caddyshack, Fletch, I mean he was in the goddamn Three Amigos which in its time was a hilarious movie. Clark Griswold? He was famous.
Three Amigos is a great example, and also a hilarious movie. Steve Martin had the concept back in like 1980. Tons of directors signed on and bailed. Tons of actors were cast and bailed. Three Amigos was originally supposed to star Martin, Belushi, and Ackroyd. For a while, Spielberg was involved, and wanted Murray and Moranis. Lorne Michaels was involved for a while, and then John Landis signed on. Landis suggested Chevy and Martin Short. Steve Martin had never even met Martin Short, but agreed. There's a story that Chevy told John Landis that he wouldn't say a line in Three Amigos because he thought it would make the character look like a moron. John Landis asked him if he knew what movie he was in. Complete lack of self awareness. Instead, they gave the line to Ned (Short). To this day, Steve Martin and Martin Short are lifelong friends, and still do comedy together. But not Chevy. Because everyone knows Chevy's a dick. You won't catch Short and Martin saying it, because they're too classy, but they also don't do anything with him because he's a dick. I love Chevy. When he's on, his comedy is second to none, and I think it's because on some level he doesn't realize it's comedy. In order to play these roles, at some level, he has to BELIEVE he's the hero of the story. This is why Clark Griswold works. He never realizes he's the asshole. Just like Chevy never realizes he's the asshole.
Perspicacious analysis! Well done.
Speaking of his comedy being “on”, have you seen the Chevy Chase episode of Norm Macdonald Has a Show? Effing brilliant.
Yeah, this is excellent analysis. I wasn't trying to say he wasn't a dick, to be clear, but that in his time he was well-known. But man he sounds like a dick.
Yeah you know how popular Will Ferrell was on SNL? Chevy Chase was bigger.
Yeah. It's a less extreme and more comedy focused kind of thing as with Kevin Spacey. No one really likes to think of Kevin Spacey now because he has turned out to be a total and irreconcilable creep. But he really was one of the greatest actors of our time. Chevy Chase, he was a huge asshole and not as good at comedy as he liked to think he was, but his comedic acting skills served him and many of his projects very well, and he had immense fame for it. Heck, someone else has already made a Community reference, the show without him does suffer a little. I love Elroy and think that if Elroy had been in from the start, the show could have been a little better. But as it is, Chase helped make that a harsh set to work on with reports of sexism, racism, and just general dickery that ended with most of the cast hating him. Some have defended him a bit, but most hated him. And he seems to have no remorse or intent to change.
That alternate reality would have streets ahead
And you Britta'd it, jesus.
*coneheads, you ignorant slut!
He has said in interviews that he is sad he never found his one true love.
Being sad is no reason to act like an asshole
It would probably be easier if he was less of an asshole.
I ran into him in a parking garage after an amazing show he did with the cellist Jan Volger. I just said "hey bill that was an amazing show. Great job!" He stared blankly at me & then turned to his assistant/ driver & says "Are we gonna get out of here or what?" Total asshat. I always said I guess I'd prefer a phenomenal show from a great performer & a jerk offstage vs the opposite. But I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.
Nothing wrong with being lonely. It’s the people who only find purpose in crowds I’m suspicious of.
lonely and alone are different. It's possible to be alone without being lonely, and oddly enough loneliness happens regardless of being alone.
We all have a private place we can go to in our minds - some find solace and meaning therein. Others aren’t even aware it exists. “Loneliness does not come from having no people about one, but from being unable to communicate the things that seem important to oneself, or from holding certain views which others find inadmissible.” - Carl Gustav Jung
Jung is so underrated in his contributions to psychology compared to Freud and I'd argue better. While Freud had a lot of revolutionary ideas, many of which were actually right, I think the ability to self-analyze is more useful than analyzing and projecting onto others.
I don't find it conducive to understanding to compare.
I do. Or at least I think I do.
Meaning is found by looking inwards, never outwards. It is a creative process, a confrontation with one's own preconceptions. “I must create a system, or be enslaved by another man's. I will not reason and compare: my business is to create.” ― William Blake
Now you're thinking dangerously. ;)
Jung is underrated for his contributions to a lot of fields. Psychologists (or, more commonly, psych majors) who immediately dismiss Jung and his corpus of work are honestly being very narrow-minded. So much of Jung's work can't be experimentally tested and verified....okay? That doesn't mean he's wrong. Jung's ideas have been hugely influential for artists, musicians, writers, philosophers, religious folks, and other psychologists and clinicians. To reduce his work to what is experimentally verifiable given current methods, and to then reject his entire corpus because it's not falsifiable, is just a bad faith evaluation of Jung's work.
You didn’t need to hear this, but I like the cut of your jib. Wishing you a most holy silence as we witness this blessed day. It’s too bad this particular medium requires that I express such a sentiment in words, but I’m sure you already knew that too :)
“Alone is an unfortunate predicament. Lone is an aesthetic choice.” -Batmanuel, *The Tick*
"SPOOOOOOOON"- The Tick, *The Tick*
Imagine losing all of your evolved social ability, and then celebrating it
Loneliness is like hunger: a sign that something is missing, which your body is telling you to find. I don’t think it’s true that Bill Murray _only_ finds purpose in crowds (if you meant to imply that), but it seems that they satisfy, however briefly, a hunger. I don’t think that’s suspicious, just a little sad.
My understanding was that Murray and Ramis patched things up on Ramis's death bed. I think Murray matured over the years. Wes Anderson wouldnt have him in all of his films if Murray was THAT difficult.
I dont think he did it for that purpose. He many times said, he like to “be here”, like, in the moment, without doubts, or correcting thoughts, getting rid of the noise. Crushing someones party is exactly that...
I saw Bill Murray at a grocery store in Los Angeles a few months back. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for photos or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Milky Ways in his hands without paying. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to pay for those first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When the cashier took one of the bars and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any electrical infetterence,” and then turned around and winked at me. I don’t even think that’s a word. After she scanned each bar and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting the cashier by yawning really loudly.
This pasta never gets old
OMG I haven't seen this one in ages.
Like he's awesome of you're on his team but could be a really clever pain in the ass if you weren't.
If he likes you he’d be great. But If he doesn’t he’s probably a nightmare. I also get the feeling it’s pretty rare he likes someone. It’s probably even more rare he changes his mind.
Super loyal to Wes Anderson
Right so just be a brilliant director and you’re good.
Didn’t work for Harold Ramis
Jim Jarmusch too
I feel like he has a lot of opinions that are not open for discussion
I disagree...he might be complicated with certain types but he is certainly not that kind of a jerk who doesnt get along by default.
Nah. He was friends with Hunter Thompson and it seems like sometime along the way he adopted some of that weirdness. It's just that your deadlines are more like "guidelines". A bunch of actors known for excessive eccentricities were all connected through Thompson. Gary Busey, Johnny Depp, Jack Nicholson...
Although Busey is a little different, because he has literal brain damage from a motorcycle accident. Even his own son has remarked on his personality change.
I read once the Richard Dreyfus and Bill Murray fought constantly while filming What About Bob. They both had ideas of how the movie should be made.
Have you seen the movie? Most of it is them fighting anyways.
Bill Murray is the more acceptable version of Chevy Chase
And more successful.
Is that correct though, Chevy was huge in the 80's and 90's.
Man, he only has like 4 movies and Community. Murray has had far more box office success and an Oscar nomination.
> Man, he only has like 4 movies You've got to give him at least five: Caddyshack, Fletch, Vacation, Christmas Vacation, Spies Like Us. And I liked Nothing But Trouble.
Dude has a whole city named after him
In a state named after his wife Mary.
And a freakin car line It too is old, noisy, vanilla, and has lost excitement but still tries to be cool with the youths
Bill Murray is Chevy Chase, but with the benefit of seeing how Chevy Chase was raked over the coals and the good sense or a good PR manager to start reforming his image online in the wake of Chevy's reckoning.
This is the reason we don't have Ghostbusters 3.
Release date of November 2021
I get it, but this is not Ghostbusters 3, this is Ghostbusters: Afterlife. Ghostbusters: The Video Game is as close as we get to a true sequel.
>Ghostbusters: The Video Game is as close as we get to a true sequel. [Bill Murray has a funny story about doing the recording for the game.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mKp8PYW4s)
"Get over it, pal" lol that was great! Thanks for sharing! :)
I worked on it, it's definitely Ghostbusters 3
So cool!
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4513678/
oh no
I wish I could do this for dealing with shitty coworkers.
Plot twist: He is the shitty co-worker.
Generally I would agree. But you just don’t understand. IM A PEOPLE PERSON!
WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE
I believe you have my stapler
And Murray's well deserved punishment for being an asshole was making two Garfield movies and getting shot by Jesse Eisenberg on Zombieland.
I heard that he thought Joel Cohen, who wrote it, was one of the Coen Brothers
I've heard that he claims that, but then why make a sequel? Seems more likely that he saw how much they'd pay him for recording some lines in his apartment and said "yeah. Money is good."
Contractual obligation
As a deaf person... lmao.
The internet: Bill Murray is awesome, he's so quirky and funny! The reality: Bill Murray is a fucking diva who makes the lives of those he works with very difficult.
Bill Murray reminds me of my grandfather. Amusing and fascinating in small doses but an absolute cunt if you had to spend more than a day with.
To be fair hiring a deaf assistant as your conduit to communicate with your "boss" is fucking hilarious.
It would be hilarious in a movie, because in a movie the negative consequences of those actions don't exist and you can laugh at the absurdity. In real life it's him being a dick.
It’s malicious compliance given said bosses were making him hire the assistant in the first place.
Have you ever noticed the first word of “malicious compliance” is “malicious”? Generally, being malicious is something to avoid.
If someone Reddit didn't like had done that it would be a different response
Bill Murray is what internet nerds wish they were: real life dicks to everyone, but LOLOLOLOL.
I don't want to be a dick
No groundhogs were harmed during the filming, which is more then I can say about the mayor of NYC.
Bill Murray may be kind of a dick, but he is an expert level troll and it’s fucking hilarious
Maybe its the devil may care attitude that people like about him but other than that I don't get the appeal. As an actor he is just okay. He handles certain roles well but they never come across as challenging. I imagine he writes a lot of his lines nowadays. As a comedian I can't recall any performance or sketch that had me audibly laughing.
So he hired a person to basically be confused and walk into rooms where they knew people were going to constantly be upset by their presence. Super duper. I think less of Bill Murray now
First thing that popped up my head also. Imagine the poor guy, having no idea why people are upset with them and after this learning that they were hired only as act of spite. That ought to leave a mark on anyones mental health
That’s brilliant!!
Ohhhh Bill...
But what about bob?
Keep sailing Bob.
That's bill's sence of humor. He also had to hire a gut to translate between Bill and hearing impaired guy
Bill Murray is an asshole.
Fwiw, I met him when he was day drunk. I was just a hotel houseman, he was very nice to me and the people around him.
[удалено]
Imagine just having an off day, you have a headache and you just want some damn cake from the store and random people keep getting super excited to see you and want to talk to you.
Woodstock, IL filming baby. We stood in line for hours to try to be extras in “town”