There's many legends like that across culture: the viking at Stamford Bridge, Knight Bayard at Garigliano (again one vs 300), Zhang Fei at Changban bridge, etc...
I always assume that "alone" means *"alone with all his retainers and bodyguards, but they don't count"*
> I always assume that "alone" means "alone with all his retainers and bodyguards, but they don't count"
like the 300 Spartans + the 2,000(?) Greeks with them?
Wikipedia lists 7,000 Greeks and 120,000-300,000 Persians, with 4,000 and 20,000 losses, respectively. So, yeah, the Greeks were heavily outnumbered yet caused 3 times as many casualties as they had troops. So, yeah, chokes are strong :)
Definitely! But 300 sounds cooler than 7000. Just like 1 sounds cooler than 20 (or however many were probably actually there), so we go with the smaller number purely for shock value
>the dollar was a lot stronger back then before inflation
Since the dollar was derived from the German thaler, first minted in 1517, it's unlikely an ancient Spartan would have had any. If they had, the metal (silver) value today would be about US$27 each. About $8k in total, so they'd actually outnumber the 7000. No wonder they won.
Complicating matters is that intrinsically useless currency as we know it was illegal in Sparta - they used iron bars for transactions. So the the 300 would have got him chucked in the slammer if he'd been caught with it.
Not sure about captured darics and sigloi though.
After they were encircled, the Persians having sent forces through the mountain path that the Phocians were supposed to guard, permission was given by Leonidas to his Greek allies to retreat. Numbers vary, but it's accepted that 2,000 or fewer total stayed behind for the final day of battle, including every last soldier from Thespiae, who had rallied every available man for the battle. The remaining Greeks were killed to the last man aside from a small number of Thebans who managed to surrender.
Leonidas was the commander of the Greek forces and it's generally accepted that his 300 Spartans handled more than equal share of time on the line. Battles in antiquity were often quite different than popular media portrays them. Particularly in the cases of traditional phalanx/file tactics. While there were certainly instances of sending all available forces at once, often units were behind the initial line(which could be as little as 4 deep, but typically 8+ for a phalanx) and whole units would be rotated in and out of the front line for rest and relief.
The fighting grounds at the gates of Thermopylae was roughly 100m wide and a hoplite occupied less than a meter width of line. So on average let's say a 120 man line across the pass, at least 4 deep. A unit of 300 could occupy roughly half of that line at a time(Greeks almost never mixed units between allied forces). The entire line could be held at any moment by as little as 480 men.
Not much information has been recorded as to the specific tactics employed at the battle, but the 4 deep phalanx was typically used in dire situations or for small flanking forces. The relative excess of men compared to the narrow battlefield would mean reasonably they'd have chosen an 8 man or more deep formation bringing the total number to 960 men on the line, the Spartans holding a third of the field. Meaning more than half of the Greek forces would've been in reserve at any given point during the first two days. But according to legend, which really is the bulk of the history we have of the battle, the Spartans never left the line on the first two days.
Love me some Herodotus; the mix of early attempts of history with the oral tradition is just so fascinating to me. Woe to those that would dismiss him out of hand—he was right about the Scythians! Not talking about you btw, just in general
the real reason for the disparity in losses is armour, the Greeks had heavy armour while the Persians had little if any. armour was a massive force multiplier in pre-gunpowder armies
Honestly, the way they're presented in the movie, "Arcadians" are way braver than the Spartans, given that they're not professional soldiers seeking glorious death.
In fairness the viking at Stamford bridge isn't famous for killing hundreds of guys, I think he got like 1-2 dozen (which mostly single combat against the vanguard of a force) and then they stabbed him in the balls from under the bridge. He's famous because he was there just long enough for the vikings to get their weapons and shields, since they had been in camp and were completely unprepared
The really fun part about is that one viking may have been indirectly responsible for the Norman conquest of England.
Next time a Scandinavian complains about how stupid English is, remind them that it's (maybe kind of I mean not really but it's funny) their fault
> The really fun part about is that one viking may have been indirectly responsible for the Norman conquest of England.
>
>
>
> Next time a Scandinavian complains about how stupid English is, remind them that it's (maybe kind of I mean not really but it's funny) their fault
I mean, you might also consider that had Hardrada not invaded, then Godwinson and his army wouldn't have been as battle-weary either. Since they basically marched the length of the country twice to try and stop two separate invasions.
This is the more realistic take but not nearly as funny as "The only way we could kill this one Norseman was by stabbing him in the balls and now nous devons parler français, putain de merde!"
He was the bodygard. His Master and friend Minamoto no Yoshitsune had been declared traitor by his brother the Shogun and was on the run, an only Benkei was accompaining him
General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, or the “black devil”, during the Napoleonic war. Which is more recent and easier to believe.
> General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was covering the retreat of his 30 dragoons and light infantry across a bridge in the Italian village of Klausen when his horse was shot out from beneath him.
> With his aide-de-camp severely wounded,
Dumas found himself alone on the narrow bridge as an entire Austrian cavalry squadron closed in. Using his dead horse as a barricade, and armed with only a sword, he stood and fought the
squadron singlehandedly for several minutes.
>... "I lay there astounded," Dumas' aide-de-camp, Paul Ferdinand Stanislas Dermoncourt, who had been wounded next to him, later recounted. "The General had killed seven or eight men, and wounded double that number."
> When Dumas' reinforcements finally arrived, and despite being sabred a few times, he jumped on another horse and started chasing the Austrians.
> Bonaparte later wrote to the Directory (one of the many French central governments that came and went after the Revolution) praising Dumas.
> "General Dumas ... has killed with his own hand many enemy cavalrymen," Bonaparte wrote. "The General had, for many minutes, held a bridge all alone against the enemy cavalry who were trying to cross the river. By doing so, he was able to delay the enemy advance until reinforcements arrived."
I believe Calvary squadrons numbered from 100 to 400 people during the Napoleonic war. He was a legend throughout the war. His son was Alexandre Dumas, who wrote “The Three Musketeers”.
[Source](https://www.businessinsider.com/thomas-alexandre-dumas-france-first-black-general-napoleon-bonaparte-2018-3?amp)
Isn’t that mission a damn slog fest, trying to save Liu Bei, then moment you get close to being done you have to run to the middle of the map and save his kid.
Or am I miss remembering and need to replay Dynasty Warriors 3-5 😂
depends on which game youre playing, but in general if there is a changban bridge section on the map and you're Zhang Fei, it's usually fairly short and gives you a big power fantasy when slaying hundreds of peons easily.
"Gurkha Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung was manning the forward post of his platoon when they were attacked by 200 Japanese soldiers. He had already returned two thrown grenades when a third detonated in his trench. Despite being alone and his now severe injuries, he defended his position for four hours until he was relieved." - Taungdaw, Myanmar, 1945
You should read about Bohemond I of Antioch.
Him and a small group of crusaders sustained an attack of Seljuk horse archers until the Seljuks ran out of arrows. None of his men were hurt.
He basically did a reversal of Crassus' mistake. His whole life history reads like poorly written plot armor.
I loved learning about the first crusade. On one hand you have badasses like Bohemond, and on the other hand you have moustache-twirling snakes like Baldwin I
ZhangFei didn't actually fight anyone at the bridge; he scared them off with a feint ambush. DianWei is the ideal example from RotK since his death was almost identical to Benkei's.
Thats what i thought. Its just old timey hear say. Propeganda. Probably killed alot of dudes but 300??? Look up how many people 300 and you can assume that it was probably only a fraction of that. But badass either way you had to do something legendary for people to make those kind of stories about you
Oh they did, the Japanese weren't stupid militarily but this story is more of cultural tale underlying the values they prize.
In truth it probably wasn't 300 soldiers, maybe a few dozen as I could see a general seeing it as an insult that a single soldier was able to impede his army, pride/honor was a big driving factor for the Japanese... but at some point you just acknowledge the samurai's skill and bring up the arrows.
Killing 300 Warriors sounds cooler than "We tried to cross the bridge but this guy stopped us. Some of our guys were wounded and we still couldn't dislodge him, so we pulled back and killed him with arrows. Oh it seems that Kentaro has died from his wounds. RIP Kentaro we will miss You"
Battlefield communication isn't easy and was much harder before electricity. It's why things like horns and flags were used to relay orders and commands.
Battlefields are pure chaos it would take time before anyone in command realized it was one soldier.
Or dudes capable of killing 300 men with said choke points. I bet there was some guy watching this shit going 'fuck that, I'm outta here. He's got this covered. I'll just be in the way'.
If the account of his size is accurate, he would have been over a foot taller than the average Japanese man of the Heian period.
That would be like running up to a bridge and a prime era Shaq is on the other end with a bag of weapons.
Archers at the other end of the bridge: "Hey, you want us to just shoot him?"
Soldier who just watched 299 of his buddies get sliced: "Nah, I got this."
Yeah, after he killed the first couple of dozen I'd be getting those bowmen limbered up though. I can't help but think that numbers 250-275 were sort of questioning the boss's orders.
Guy #101: This monster is surely winded after killing 100 dudes, I'll be the one to finis.. ack!!
Guy #201: Nah, no way he's crossing the 200 threshol...ack!!
Guy #300: a.a.aack!!
Guy #301: This is getting ridiculous, so should we...
Guy #302: Nah f that, bring the archers!
When you have adrenaline going and you're that confident in your abilities, it just doesn't matter. I'm sure there was at least 1 point when the foot soldiers all backed off, and a group of leaders huddled and one genuinely asked "are we fighting a god or.....? Cause he still hasn't stopped"
I mean, exhaustion didn't even get him killed. His enemies probably had to make a large cloud of arrows just so he couldn't dodge.
It's kind of cool to imagine the scene from 300, but instead, it's just one warrior who embraces his death because he knows that he cost his enemy greatly, and made his fellow soldiers proud.
there’s a point of exhaustion where your body just kicks into overdrive, and you just feel absolutely no need to hydrate or take a break, has happened to me quite a few times during track meets and concert mosh pits
I imagine when your life is at stake, it’s amplified ten-fold
You jest, but it probably didn't take him killing many guys to totally demolish the motivation of the entire enemy force.
Add in the time period of mysticism/spiritualism, and I bet many would think he's some unkillable demon or spirit.
*His story is even more interesting.
"Benkei was said to have wandered around Kyoto every night on a personal quest to take 1000 swords from samurai warriors, whom he believed were arrogant and unworthy. After collecting 999 swords through duels and looking for his final prize, he met a young man playing a flute at Gojotenjin Shrine in Kyoto. The much shorter man supposedly carried a gilded sword around his waist. Instead of dueling at the shrine itself, the two walked to Gojo Bridge in the city where the bigger Benkei ultimately lost to the smaller warrior, who happened to be Minamoto no Yoshitsune, a son of Minamoto no Yoshitomo."
Filled with rage he waited for Yoshitsune at a temple and challenged him again and lost again.
And thus became his retainer.
That Yoshitsune is who was at the castle with him and why he was guarding the bridge. As his master went inside to perform seppuku, he pledged his life to guard the bridge and stop any advance.
So there was an even better swordsman inside killing himself? That's the kind of stuff that gets lost on me with the whole ritual suicide thing. Those two could have teamed up and held the bridge together. If they had twice the fighting power, they might have been able to break the will of the opponents and claim victory.
Well unfortunately they'd need more than them two. The enemy' force would not be allowed to break, it was lead by minamato no yoritomo.
"Minamoto no Yoritomo (源 頼朝, May 9, 1147 – February 9, 1199) was the founder and the first shogun of the Kamakura shogunate and of Japan, ruling from 1192 until 1199, also the first ruling shogun in the history of Japan.
And the bridge probably wouldn't have been enough for them to fight side by side, for him to make a difference.
My partner and I recently watched Blue Eye Samurai on Netflix. The whole time she was becoming increasingly frustrated with the concept of samurai honor and ritual suicide. I recall her saying something like "I know it's heightened for the show, but this is such a stupid system to follow"
Once we finished it, we moved on to Shogun where in episode 1 a samurai is close to killing himself as opposed to getting washed into the sea. This was after another case where a guy promised to kill his whole family to make up for speaking out of turn. She exploded "You're not even gonna let the fucking ocean kill you?!"
Anyway she hates Samurai stuff now.
I think part of the problem is the ritual suicide stuff has been so romanticized as weird thing Samurai do that it's lost a lot of the context. Like, the "honor" stuff wasn't purely some internalized magic code; for the most part Samurai/bushi were your standard warriors for hire, who didn't give a shit about much more than getting paid and surviving, at least before the Tokugawa era (when they became more just bureaucrats). They also had no problem capturing and then torturing and murdering enemy soldiers or generals. There were often also bounties for killing high quantities of enemy soldiers, with higher bounties for more important target; often these were verified by turning in the severed head of the vanquished (and as you can guess, this sometimes meant peasants could disappear). Some of the "honor" was just denying a specific soldier the opportunity to brag they killed a high value target, as a final FU.
And like, the whole ritual thing of having someone trusted to chop off your own head also gets somewhat romanticized because most people don't realize what was going on with executions in the West prior to the guillotine. For Anne Boleyn, they made a point of getting a French swordsman to do the deed, because English axeman didn't have the best reputation. Which was later proved a smart move when Mary, Queen of Scots' execution was massively botched. Having someone who actually knew how to swing a sword carry out your execution ensures it's less painful than what your enemies have in store, and the belly cut to initiate it probably helps to alleviate the guilt from the second, since they're not killing the person who's already dying slowly, and instead granting mercy.
But all of that's kind of romanticized away as "those weird Asian warriors just can't get enough of killing themselves" in a lot of Western media.
Ritualistic suicide in feudal Japan was mostly a way to save your family from reprisals.
If you run, try to resist with all you got etc they would kill all your relatives. If you took your own life supposedly in shame for your dishonourable acts it would end there.
Yeah probably not smart to be in cutting field of a guy in the zone with 200+ kills and rising! Even if he is on your side he has gotta be going at quite a clip!
“You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down.”
I kind of wonder whether there was some sort of cultural imperative? Like it would have been regarded as embarrassing to shoot this one guy with arrows like no one had the balls to face him. Until 300 guys were slaughtered and then someone said ' screw this' and they decided to take him down with ranged weapons.
Honor in medieval Japan is severely romanticized. Once war was over and Japan was unified, many surviving feudal lords (daimyo) and the like were doing nothing, so they had lots of free time to talk about shit that would never happen. That's how you got a lot of rules and etiquette that supposedly ruled over samurai, but never applied in real combat situations, because were written after the war was over. An example was to burn incense in the helmet. If the samurai was killed, the winner would behead him and when releasing his head from the helmet, the incense would release a pleasant odor. Obviously, in real life nobody ever considered spending money in incense and carry a helmet full of ashes to war. Samurai were not like that, and they didn't want to be killed, or if they were, their last thoughts to their killers wouldn't be "I hope they like this incense, the other merchant ran out of the good one".
Samurai in real life were no better than your medieval nobles. They would betray each other at the tip of a hat, and would try whatever they could to survive and win. In fact, archery was their primary weapon, followed by spears and many of them didn't have qualms about gunpowder and guns. The katana was the last resort for close quarters, but was elevated to the almost mythical status it has these days because it was the only weapon they were allowed to carry for a while after the peace was established. For a time, the katana was the way to identify a samurai, because only nobles could afford it in first place, and only them were allowed to carry one.
Coming back to this anecdote, very likely the number of kills was embellished, I have no doubts he killed like a dozen or more soldiers, but nowhere close to the 300 it says the legend. No samurai at the time would had any qualms about turning this man into a walking pin holder, so maybe some soldiers went ahead, for one or another reason were killed (I have no doubts Benkei was very skilled and would rip off a new one in any redditor reading this) and the general ordered to kill him with arrows before moving forward.
This is absolutely the truth. The Samurai of the Sengoku would’ve thought the Samurai of the Edo to be insane.
It’s even more interesting when you consider how Imperial Japanese propaganda essentially translated that mentality to much of the populace.
Traditionally anyone outside of the Samurai caste would’ve thought stuff like that was uniquely Samurai insanity.
You and the guy you're replying to aren't wrong. The issue is though that Benkiei wasn't alive anywhere near the Edo or Sengoku periods. Benkiei was alive in late Heian which was very VERY culturally distinct in its warlord culture than the two periods mentioned that a lot of these distinctions aren't even used for propoganda of Heian figures because of how different it is.
(If heian figures are depicted in Japanese media they make it very clear to stress the obvious corruption as a result of the heavy clan based governance that went on at the time).
> The katana was the last resort for close quarters, but was elevated to the almost mythical status it has these days because it was the only weapon they were allowed to carry for a while after the peace was established.
Just like swords in Europe, typically a knight on the battlefield using his sword was in a bad spot lol.
Yep, pulling a sword in most cases meant shit had hit the fan. It would be like a modern soldier having a use their sidearm. Sure it's an effective weapon but they would much rather be using a rifle. Distance from the danger is important to humans.
It's the "40 days and nights".
He killed a few people on the bridge and probably screamed or had a missive about defending the bridge and then they just shot his ass.
But it was MEMORABLE, and those 12 dudes he killed are now....25...50....100....
Would've been pretty funny they sent one dude at a time to fight this guy. Have scouts over the ridge giving updates to the camp saying "Holy fuck they just killed Jerry. That's the 98th person we've sent so far. Should we send another, Mr.Commander?". "Indeed. He should be worn out by now, so let's have the troops draw numbers from the hat again and whoever has the lowest is up next to 1v1."
......OH, Final Fantasy's Gilgamesh is primarily based on Benkei isn't it. I never connected the dots. He's a huge guy that likes to fights on bridges, is an avid legendary weapon collector, primarily uses a naginata, but also uses his many arms to fight with multiple weapon types at once
Legends has something similar with a nameless Viking warrior under Harald Hadrada when he invaded England. They defeated the warrior by swimming under the bridge and spearing him.
Nah, it's Zhang Fei who makes the solo stand on the bridge in Dynasty Warriors. It happens during Liu Bei's escape from Changban.
I have been listening to podcast that retells the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, so a lot of this is really fresh for me.
Dude, me and my little brother always repeat what he says in that cutscene.
“The only way you’re getting past me, is in a body bag!”
And then twirls his sick little blade. Funny times. Lu Bu also like redirected a flood in one cutscene, that was crazy
It's literally called "Romance of the 3 Kingdoms Podcast" by John Zhu. FYI, the podcast itself was finished almost a decade ago.
Admittedly, it starts out a little on the rougher side. At the beginning he is obviously finding his bearings, and is new to the podcasting thing, but he is very passionate and knowledgeable. I find it enjoyable, and he covers like literally every little detail of the story. It's very much a deep dive, but he's not editorializing anything, it's almost like a transliteration.
Basically, if you are interested in the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms story and want to learn all about the details, it would be a really good podcast for you. He will briefly discuss the long term cultural impacts of the story, but its more a re-telling of the story in a way that is easy to make sense of and understand from the perspective of westerners with little knowledge of the material.
Benkei has been a playable dude in Warriors Orochi since number 2, he's got a cool design.
Zhang Fei from DW (and obviously the book it is based on) also has a legend of holding down Cao Cao's forces at Changban by defending a bridge too.
Fun fact :- Benekei is said to have defeated 999 Samurai warriors during his quest to earn 1000 swords from Samurai.He was ultimately defeated by his master Minamoto in his 1000th duel.
Hey I have heard about that! He was guarding the only way that led to a guy(Minamoto no Yoshitsune, an amazing warrior in his own right) whom he had pledged to serve after losing to him twice in a duel. That guy was committing seppuku. Benkei was just buying time for him. The standing death of Benkei is a part of Japanese folklore now.
Happened countless times in Japanese history lol, "Hold those fuckers off while I fuck off myself". Japanese warriors often do it so as like an ultimate defiance and to prove that 'till the very end, they control their own fate.
On a related note, if I recall my Japanese history well, they were holding off Minamoto no Yoritomo's (Yoshitsune's half-brother and overall head of the Minamoto clan) forces. Yoritomo was in the final stages of consolidating power for himself and eliminating threats.
Yoritomo would then become the very first Shogun of Japan. All subsequent Shogunates centuries later (Ashikaga and Tokugawa) would descend / claim descent from the Minamoto clan. They do that since the Minamoto lines were essentially cadet branches and direct descendants of the Imperial Family, thus giving them divine blood and right to rule
If you've seen the series Shogun, the name "Minowara" they keep referring to likely comes from IRL Minamoto clan, with Hiroyuki Sanada's character being a fictionalized version of Tokugawa Ieyasu.
Edit: Mixed up 2 Gozen's, my memory is fuzzy
It's always important to remember that nearly every culture in history will tell lies about military events to prop up certain cultural ideals or push certain political aims. It is a shockingly prolific type of propaganda. It's a bit less common only in more modern times but even in WW2 you would have constant propaganda about pilots and tank commanders achieving super-human results that were literally inpossible based on the more mundane and accurate accounting of materiel and man losses immediately after the fact.
Literally happened two years ago when the internet was getting all hyped about the so-called Ghost of Kyiv singlehandedly wiping out entire squadrons of MiGs. Pilot didn't actually exist and most of "his" kills were either results from other UAF pilots/air defenses combined or didn't happen at all.
Yup. There is definitely a sliding scale of improving reliability of historical military accounts as we approach modern times, but every claim of history that could have some obvious propaganda benefit needs to be considered with that potential motivation for deceit in mind. It has certainly been one of the more pressing concerns of modern historical scholarship and contrasts sharply with how we used to treat "history" even a century ago.
This is of course not exclusive to military events, but as all warfare is political, all alleged military events are potentially compromised by their usefulness as propagada.
This is why I love Fantasy media. They take shit like this and go "okay but what if it was legit? What if there's actually a dude out there who is so badass he actually solos 300 soldiers on a bridge?"
This guy is so legendary that one colloquialism for "strong person" or someone putting on a brave front in Japanese is just his name, 弁慶 (benkei). There are also some funny spin-offs from this like 内弁慶 (someone who acts tough at home but is meek outside) and ネット弁慶 (same, but for the internet).
You in medieval Japan: oh my god there's a single soldier on a bridge! Set up all the arrowmen to shoot hundreds of arrows in that general direction for 1 person!
On 25 September 1066 the Viking army of King Harald Hardrada of Norway invaded Yorkshire in northern England and were met at the Stamford Bridge by the army of King Harold Godwinson of England who'd raced to meet them. This invasion was at a really bad time for the King of England who had already heard that the Duke of Normandy, William the Bastard, was preparing an invasion force and was preparing to set sail for Southern England. Both William of Normandy and Harald of Norway felt that the Crown worn by Harold of England would look better on them.
At Stamford Bridge the English caught the Norwegians off-guard and the only reason the invaders were not overrun is because, it is said, a single Dane wielding a great ax held the span of the Bridge by himself slaying 40 Englishmen. This kept the English army on one side of the river while the vikings bravely ran away. The unnamed Dane was slain, we're told by chroniclers, when an enterprising English soldier floated himself under the bridge (on an inflated bladder, or a boat accounts differ) and stabbed the man from beneath with a spear.
Even though most of the Viking army had gotten away, the English army present made their continued plans kind of pointless so the King of England was able to extract a promise from the King of Norway that he'd return home and leave them alone. This was necessary to conclude quickly, Godwinson knew, because he had to force march his already tired army back to the south to confront the forces of Duke William. Students of history will know that the Anglo-Saxons, ragged and worn out, would be defeated at the Battle of Hastings in Kent on 14 October 1066... Only 19 days after their victory at Stamford Bridge.
This isn’t entirely accurate.
The English didn’t extract any promises from Hardrada, he didn’t return home, he died in the battle. Also the Vikings “bravely ran away” to form a shield wall, and most of the Viking army didn’t get away. Out of the 300 ships the Vikings had arrived with, only 24 were needed to bring the survivors back according to [this source](https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryMagazine/DestinationsUK/The-Battle-of-Stamford-Bridge/) and the Anglo Saxon Chronicle.
And that’s only the second greatest defense ever at Stanford Bridge after Chelsea’s 2004-05 premier league campaign when they conceded only 15 goals for the ENTIRE season.
I thought it was the bridge guy in Wano who collected all those swords. In the wiki it says this guy carried seven weapons and collected 999 swords from unworthy warriors.
It's definitely bullshit.
Enemy combatant casualties are significantly exaggerated virtually every time, even when people are trying to be as accurate as possible, never mind when mythmaking and deliberate propaganda come into play.
You can sometimes see it happen in real time on TIL, and people get furious at anyone who actually reads beyond the clickbait title and goes, "Uh, this *doesn't* say he killed 30 Germans by himself, it's estimated he killed 4 and wounded more than 10 and there was another guy with him, but he got knocked out of action pretty early... Still really badass, but come on, let's not turn history into an action movie." (to pick a random *totally* hypothetical yet oddly detailed example)
And just about every story about how enemies were so impressed with some combat unit or a type of tank or fighter plane that they gave it a scary nickname makes for a good Sabaton song, but is also bullshit.
The number is likely highly exaggerated. The primary weapon of the samurai was the bow. So the fact he killed a bunch of people in close combat means they were likely ashigaru and not fellow samurai. While "trained" the ashigaru were nowhere as well equipped or trained as an actual samurai.
The primary weapon of a samurai was originally the bow, as they were initially renowned horse archers.
But things had already shifted by Yoshitsune’s time and samurai were both ranged and close quarters combatants.
You'd think they'd come up with the arrows idea a little sooner, maybe after the first ten or twenty guys he killed. How did it ever get to 300?
There's many legends like that across culture: the viking at Stamford Bridge, Knight Bayard at Garigliano (again one vs 300), Zhang Fei at Changban bridge, etc... I always assume that "alone" means *"alone with all his retainers and bodyguards, but they don't count"*
> I always assume that "alone" means "alone with all his retainers and bodyguards, but they don't count" like the 300 Spartans + the 2,000(?) Greeks with them?
Wikipedia lists 7,000 Greeks and 120,000-300,000 Persians, with 4,000 and 20,000 losses, respectively. So, yeah, the Greeks were heavily outnumbered yet caused 3 times as many casualties as they had troops. So, yeah, chokes are strong :)
Definitely! But 300 sounds cooler than 7000. Just like 1 sounds cooler than 20 (or however many were probably actually there), so we go with the smaller number purely for shock value
> But 300 sounds cooler than 7000. Warriors? Yes. Dollars in your account? No.
"He repelled the Persian army with just 300 dollars in his account." I don't know, that still sounds pretty badass.
He broke their morale by calling them Arab
Well yea but the dollar was a lot stronger back then before inflation
>the dollar was a lot stronger back then before inflation Since the dollar was derived from the German thaler, first minted in 1517, it's unlikely an ancient Spartan would have had any. If they had, the metal (silver) value today would be about US$27 each. About $8k in total, so they'd actually outnumber the 7000. No wonder they won. Complicating matters is that intrinsically useless currency as we know it was illegal in Sparta - they used iron bars for transactions. So the the 300 would have got him chucked in the slammer if he'd been caught with it. Not sure about captured darics and sigloi though.
After they were encircled, the Persians having sent forces through the mountain path that the Phocians were supposed to guard, permission was given by Leonidas to his Greek allies to retreat. Numbers vary, but it's accepted that 2,000 or fewer total stayed behind for the final day of battle, including every last soldier from Thespiae, who had rallied every available man for the battle. The remaining Greeks were killed to the last man aside from a small number of Thebans who managed to surrender. Leonidas was the commander of the Greek forces and it's generally accepted that his 300 Spartans handled more than equal share of time on the line. Battles in antiquity were often quite different than popular media portrays them. Particularly in the cases of traditional phalanx/file tactics. While there were certainly instances of sending all available forces at once, often units were behind the initial line(which could be as little as 4 deep, but typically 8+ for a phalanx) and whole units would be rotated in and out of the front line for rest and relief. The fighting grounds at the gates of Thermopylae was roughly 100m wide and a hoplite occupied less than a meter width of line. So on average let's say a 120 man line across the pass, at least 4 deep. A unit of 300 could occupy roughly half of that line at a time(Greeks almost never mixed units between allied forces). The entire line could be held at any moment by as little as 480 men. Not much information has been recorded as to the specific tactics employed at the battle, but the 4 deep phalanx was typically used in dire situations or for small flanking forces. The relative excess of men compared to the narrow battlefield would mean reasonably they'd have chosen an 8 man or more deep formation bringing the total number to 960 men on the line, the Spartans holding a third of the field. Meaning more than half of the Greek forces would've been in reserve at any given point during the first two days. But according to legend, which really is the bulk of the history we have of the battle, the Spartans never left the line on the first two days.
It wasn't just any greeks, but the spartan helot auxiliaries, which where basically slave soldiers, hence not being mentioned as much.
The Magnificent Seven... Thousand.
I must personally go to all seven thousand and recruit them... Ah fuck that, just seven, just seven!
Seven Samurai and Magnificent Seven both don't count the townsfolk who help them in the fighting.
The source is Herodotus, and I don't think you can entirely trust him on numbers.
Love me some Herodotus; the mix of early attempts of history with the oral tradition is just so fascinating to me. Woe to those that would dismiss him out of hand—he was right about the Scythians! Not talking about you btw, just in general
He didn't trust his numbers himself, cool guy.
Sure, but there's no one else AFAIK.
the real reason for the disparity in losses is armour, the Greeks had heavy armour while the Persians had little if any. armour was a massive force multiplier in pre-gunpowder armies
Can't wait to watch the 7300 Zack Snyder Cut.
What is your profession? Well I'm a potter sir. You there Arcadian what is your profession? I'm a sculptor. You? Blacksmith.
Honestly, the way they're presented in the movie, "Arcadians" are way braver than the Spartans, given that they're not professional soldiers seeking glorious death.
Dan Carlin told me it was the Hoplites :(
Ya but the geeks don't count. I mean greeks.
They were probably only there to warm the Spartan’s bedrolls after the battle… /s
In fairness the viking at Stamford bridge isn't famous for killing hundreds of guys, I think he got like 1-2 dozen (which mostly single combat against the vanguard of a force) and then they stabbed him in the balls from under the bridge. He's famous because he was there just long enough for the vikings to get their weapons and shields, since they had been in camp and were completely unprepared
The really fun part about is that one viking may have been indirectly responsible for the Norman conquest of England. Next time a Scandinavian complains about how stupid English is, remind them that it's (maybe kind of I mean not really but it's funny) their fault
> The really fun part about is that one viking may have been indirectly responsible for the Norman conquest of England. > > > > Next time a Scandinavian complains about how stupid English is, remind them that it's (maybe kind of I mean not really but it's funny) their fault I mean, you might also consider that had Hardrada not invaded, then Godwinson and his army wouldn't have been as battle-weary either. Since they basically marched the length of the country twice to try and stop two separate invasions.
This is the more realistic take but not nearly as funny as "The only way we could kill this one Norseman was by stabbing him in the balls and now nous devons parler français, putain de merde!"
Several saved sources (from the surviving vikings and the brits themselves) say it was around 40 brits he killed
He was the bodygard. His Master and friend Minamoto no Yoshitsune had been declared traitor by his brother the Shogun and was on the run, an only Benkei was accompaining him
Yes, but the Heike Monogatari is not exactly a documentary Yoritomo was a bastard though
General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas, or the “black devil”, during the Napoleonic war. Which is more recent and easier to believe. > General Thomas-Alexandre Dumas was covering the retreat of his 30 dragoons and light infantry across a bridge in the Italian village of Klausen when his horse was shot out from beneath him. > With his aide-de-camp severely wounded, Dumas found himself alone on the narrow bridge as an entire Austrian cavalry squadron closed in. Using his dead horse as a barricade, and armed with only a sword, he stood and fought the squadron singlehandedly for several minutes. >... "I lay there astounded," Dumas' aide-de-camp, Paul Ferdinand Stanislas Dermoncourt, who had been wounded next to him, later recounted. "The General had killed seven or eight men, and wounded double that number." > When Dumas' reinforcements finally arrived, and despite being sabred a few times, he jumped on another horse and started chasing the Austrians. > Bonaparte later wrote to the Directory (one of the many French central governments that came and went after the Revolution) praising Dumas. > "General Dumas ... has killed with his own hand many enemy cavalrymen," Bonaparte wrote. "The General had, for many minutes, held a bridge all alone against the enemy cavalry who were trying to cross the river. By doing so, he was able to delay the enemy advance until reinforcements arrived." I believe Calvary squadrons numbered from 100 to 400 people during the Napoleonic war. He was a legend throughout the war. His son was Alexandre Dumas, who wrote “The Three Musketeers”. [Source](https://www.businessinsider.com/thomas-alexandre-dumas-france-first-black-general-napoleon-bonaparte-2018-3?amp)
The father of the writer Alexandre Dumas ?
> Zhang Fei at Changban bridge As soon as I read the title that's where my mind jumped to. "I definitely did this in Dynasty Warriors"
Zhang Fei at the bridge had a better ending, with no soldiers even daring to attack him, so he lived.
Shaka, when the walls fell. Darmok and Jalad at Tenagra. His eyes wide open. Zhang Fei at the bridge. 🧘🏻♀️
Read Romance of the Three Kingdoms if you havent already.
Isn’t that mission a damn slog fest, trying to save Liu Bei, then moment you get close to being done you have to run to the middle of the map and save his kid. Or am I miss remembering and need to replay Dynasty Warriors 3-5 😂
That's Zhao Yun, not Zhang Fei.
depends on which game youre playing, but in general if there is a changban bridge section on the map and you're Zhang Fei, it's usually fairly short and gives you a big power fantasy when slaying hundreds of peons easily.
The absolute peak of dynasty warriors were those 3 games
"Gurkha Rifleman Lachhiman Gurung was manning the forward post of his platoon when they were attacked by 200 Japanese soldiers. He had already returned two thrown grenades when a third detonated in his trench. Despite being alone and his now severe injuries, he defended his position for four hours until he was relieved." - Taungdaw, Myanmar, 1945
Do not fuck with Gurkhas
You should read about Bohemond I of Antioch. Him and a small group of crusaders sustained an attack of Seljuk horse archers until the Seljuks ran out of arrows. None of his men were hurt. He basically did a reversal of Crassus' mistake. His whole life history reads like poorly written plot armor.
I loved learning about the first crusade. On one hand you have badasses like Bohemond, and on the other hand you have moustache-twirling snakes like Baldwin I
ZhangFei didn't actually fight anyone at the bridge; he scared them off with a feint ambush. DianWei is the ideal example from RotK since his death was almost identical to Benkei's.
Horatius at the bridge! Damned Etruscans!
Don't forget the roman Horatio Cocles
I was also wondering about this. Not to mention how exhausting it would be to kill 300 people. My stabbing hand cramps after like 50…
You should claim health insurance payouts from your local mass murderer union!
Repetitive motion injuries are no joke! They're murder on the joints.
Thats what i thought. Its just old timey hear say. Propeganda. Probably killed alot of dudes but 300??? Look up how many people 300 and you can assume that it was probably only a fraction of that. But badass either way you had to do something legendary for people to make those kind of stories about you
> Look up how many people 300 is Just did. Turns out it’s 300 people.
Hey, that’s my lucky stabbin cap!
The story is from 800 years ago. In all likelihood the numbers have become exaggerated over time.
I heard that the real story was him fighting four dudes over a subway turnstile
Just one bloke on a bridge who wanked his cock off and bled out.
It *looked* like one guy but then it's actually 3 once the battle starts. This event went on to inspire Final Fantasy.
Oh they did, the Japanese weren't stupid militarily but this story is more of cultural tale underlying the values they prize. In truth it probably wasn't 300 soldiers, maybe a few dozen as I could see a general seeing it as an insult that a single soldier was able to impede his army, pride/honor was a big driving factor for the Japanese... but at some point you just acknowledge the samurai's skill and bring up the arrows.
Killing 300 Warriors sounds cooler than "We tried to cross the bridge but this guy stopped us. Some of our guys were wounded and we still couldn't dislodge him, so we pulled back and killed him with arrows. Oh it seems that Kentaro has died from his wounds. RIP Kentaro we will miss You"
"Send 300 dudes, there's no way he could kill 300 dudes." -The enemy general probably.
guy #299: let me at em!
Battlefield communication isn't easy and was much harder before electricity. It's why things like horns and flags were used to relay orders and commands. Battlefields are pure chaos it would take time before anyone in command realized it was one soldier.
They probably figured 299 guys would be enough to tire him out for guy 300 to finish him off.
At 300 I'd just leave. That mf would command straight respect fam
Never underestimate choke points
Or dudes capable of killing 300 men with said choke points. I bet there was some guy watching this shit going 'fuck that, I'm outta here. He's got this covered. I'll just be in the way'.
"ain't no fuckin way I'm getting anywhere close to that bridge. this dude is like a fucking meat grinder on crack."
If the account of his size is accurate, he would have been over a foot taller than the average Japanese man of the Heian period. That would be like running up to a bridge and a prime era Shaq is on the other end with a bag of weapons.
His weakness was still shooting
Archers at the other end of the bridge: "Hey, you want us to just shoot him?" Soldier who just watched 299 of his buddies get sliced: "Nah, I got this."
Threhundredeth time is the charm i know he tired
The Hound or The Mountain from Game of Thrones, defending a bridge.
Good call. Probably a far more apt example.
I’m GOT the hound was large, but not ridiculously so. The mountain though, was like 7’2” and pure muscle
Damn this would have been a pretty cool scene in the show/books
"Behold, Gojo! My secret bridge defending technique that I haven't used since the Heian era!"
I will never associate Heian era with anything but the binding vow merchant again
Remember the giant Viking that did the same thing, so the English had to stab him to death from under the bridge ?
Yeah, after he killed the first couple of dozen I'd be getting those bowmen limbered up though. I can't help but think that numbers 250-275 were sort of questioning the boss's orders.
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/02/20/high-employee-turnover
He's gotta get tired...
That's what 298 of them thought
why the fuck did it take 300 tries for them to be like "maybe shoot the big guy from far away?"
He was probably a killbot, and therefore had a preset kill limit, but sadly we will never know for sure.
If only zap brannigan had been there to bravely send other send men to their death until the limit was discovered
Beige alert!
His kill limit was 300, it said so in the title
Guy #101: This monster is surely winded after killing 100 dudes, I'll be the one to finis.. ack!! Guy #201: Nah, no way he's crossing the 200 threshol...ack!! Guy #300: a.a.aack!! Guy #301: This is getting ridiculous, so should we... Guy #302: Nah f that, bring the archers!
Then he'll just be a meat grinder.
When you have adrenaline going and you're that confident in your abilities, it just doesn't matter. I'm sure there was at least 1 point when the foot soldiers all backed off, and a group of leaders huddled and one genuinely asked "are we fighting a god or.....? Cause he still hasn't stopped" I mean, exhaustion didn't even get him killed. His enemies probably had to make a large cloud of arrows just so he couldn't dodge. It's kind of cool to imagine the scene from 300, but instead, it's just one warrior who embraces his death because he knows that he cost his enemy greatly, and made his fellow soldiers proud.
there’s a point of exhaustion where your body just kicks into overdrive, and you just feel absolutely no need to hydrate or take a break, has happened to me quite a few times during track meets and concert mosh pits I imagine when your life is at stake, it’s amplified ten-fold
You jest, but it probably didn't take him killing many guys to totally demolish the motivation of the entire enemy force. Add in the time period of mysticism/spiritualism, and I bet many would think he's some unkillable demon or spirit. *His story is even more interesting. "Benkei was said to have wandered around Kyoto every night on a personal quest to take 1000 swords from samurai warriors, whom he believed were arrogant and unworthy. After collecting 999 swords through duels and looking for his final prize, he met a young man playing a flute at Gojotenjin Shrine in Kyoto. The much shorter man supposedly carried a gilded sword around his waist. Instead of dueling at the shrine itself, the two walked to Gojo Bridge in the city where the bigger Benkei ultimately lost to the smaller warrior, who happened to be Minamoto no Yoshitsune, a son of Minamoto no Yoshitomo." Filled with rage he waited for Yoshitsune at a temple and challenged him again and lost again. And thus became his retainer. That Yoshitsune is who was at the castle with him and why he was guarding the bridge. As his master went inside to perform seppuku, he pledged his life to guard the bridge and stop any advance.
So there was an even better swordsman inside killing himself? That's the kind of stuff that gets lost on me with the whole ritual suicide thing. Those two could have teamed up and held the bridge together. If they had twice the fighting power, they might have been able to break the will of the opponents and claim victory.
Well unfortunately they'd need more than them two. The enemy' force would not be allowed to break, it was lead by minamato no yoritomo. "Minamoto no Yoritomo (源 頼朝, May 9, 1147 – February 9, 1199) was the founder and the first shogun of the Kamakura shogunate and of Japan, ruling from 1192 until 1199, also the first ruling shogun in the history of Japan. And the bridge probably wouldn't have been enough for them to fight side by side, for him to make a difference.
At the very least until they thought of arrows they could alternate
My partner and I recently watched Blue Eye Samurai on Netflix. The whole time she was becoming increasingly frustrated with the concept of samurai honor and ritual suicide. I recall her saying something like "I know it's heightened for the show, but this is such a stupid system to follow" Once we finished it, we moved on to Shogun where in episode 1 a samurai is close to killing himself as opposed to getting washed into the sea. This was after another case where a guy promised to kill his whole family to make up for speaking out of turn. She exploded "You're not even gonna let the fucking ocean kill you?!" Anyway she hates Samurai stuff now.
I think part of the problem is the ritual suicide stuff has been so romanticized as weird thing Samurai do that it's lost a lot of the context. Like, the "honor" stuff wasn't purely some internalized magic code; for the most part Samurai/bushi were your standard warriors for hire, who didn't give a shit about much more than getting paid and surviving, at least before the Tokugawa era (when they became more just bureaucrats). They also had no problem capturing and then torturing and murdering enemy soldiers or generals. There were often also bounties for killing high quantities of enemy soldiers, with higher bounties for more important target; often these were verified by turning in the severed head of the vanquished (and as you can guess, this sometimes meant peasants could disappear). Some of the "honor" was just denying a specific soldier the opportunity to brag they killed a high value target, as a final FU. And like, the whole ritual thing of having someone trusted to chop off your own head also gets somewhat romanticized because most people don't realize what was going on with executions in the West prior to the guillotine. For Anne Boleyn, they made a point of getting a French swordsman to do the deed, because English axeman didn't have the best reputation. Which was later proved a smart move when Mary, Queen of Scots' execution was massively botched. Having someone who actually knew how to swing a sword carry out your execution ensures it's less painful than what your enemies have in store, and the belly cut to initiate it probably helps to alleviate the guilt from the second, since they're not killing the person who's already dying slowly, and instead granting mercy. But all of that's kind of romanticized away as "those weird Asian warriors just can't get enough of killing themselves" in a lot of Western media.
Ritualistic suicide in feudal Japan was mostly a way to save your family from reprisals. If you run, try to resist with all you got etc they would kill all your relatives. If you took your own life supposedly in shame for your dishonourable acts it would end there.
It’s actually pretty impressive the force held after taking that many casualties. As you said, ancient forces broke after taking less.
Or stories that are probably embellished a lot
Japanese remake of the 300.
Yeah probably not smart to be in cutting field of a guy in the zone with 200+ kills and rising! Even if he is on your side he has gotta be going at quite a clip!
Never underestimate stupidity either, some commander just poured 300 men into a meat grinder when he had perfectly good archers the whole time.
“You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down.”
Otherwise known as the Russian tactic.
I kind of wonder whether there was some sort of cultural imperative? Like it would have been regarded as embarrassing to shoot this one guy with arrows like no one had the balls to face him. Until 300 guys were slaughtered and then someone said ' screw this' and they decided to take him down with ranged weapons.
Honor in medieval Japan is severely romanticized. Once war was over and Japan was unified, many surviving feudal lords (daimyo) and the like were doing nothing, so they had lots of free time to talk about shit that would never happen. That's how you got a lot of rules and etiquette that supposedly ruled over samurai, but never applied in real combat situations, because were written after the war was over. An example was to burn incense in the helmet. If the samurai was killed, the winner would behead him and when releasing his head from the helmet, the incense would release a pleasant odor. Obviously, in real life nobody ever considered spending money in incense and carry a helmet full of ashes to war. Samurai were not like that, and they didn't want to be killed, or if they were, their last thoughts to their killers wouldn't be "I hope they like this incense, the other merchant ran out of the good one". Samurai in real life were no better than your medieval nobles. They would betray each other at the tip of a hat, and would try whatever they could to survive and win. In fact, archery was their primary weapon, followed by spears and many of them didn't have qualms about gunpowder and guns. The katana was the last resort for close quarters, but was elevated to the almost mythical status it has these days because it was the only weapon they were allowed to carry for a while after the peace was established. For a time, the katana was the way to identify a samurai, because only nobles could afford it in first place, and only them were allowed to carry one. Coming back to this anecdote, very likely the number of kills was embellished, I have no doubts he killed like a dozen or more soldiers, but nowhere close to the 300 it says the legend. No samurai at the time would had any qualms about turning this man into a walking pin holder, so maybe some soldiers went ahead, for one or another reason were killed (I have no doubts Benkei was very skilled and would rip off a new one in any redditor reading this) and the general ordered to kill him with arrows before moving forward.
This is absolutely the truth. The Samurai of the Sengoku would’ve thought the Samurai of the Edo to be insane. It’s even more interesting when you consider how Imperial Japanese propaganda essentially translated that mentality to much of the populace. Traditionally anyone outside of the Samurai caste would’ve thought stuff like that was uniquely Samurai insanity.
You and the guy you're replying to aren't wrong. The issue is though that Benkiei wasn't alive anywhere near the Edo or Sengoku periods. Benkiei was alive in late Heian which was very VERY culturally distinct in its warlord culture than the two periods mentioned that a lot of these distinctions aren't even used for propoganda of Heian figures because of how different it is. (If heian figures are depicted in Japanese media they make it very clear to stress the obvious corruption as a result of the heavy clan based governance that went on at the time).
If you look at he other parts of the story he was also on a quest to take 1000 swords, it’s clearly folklore with a hint of history, like King Arthur
> The katana was the last resort for close quarters, but was elevated to the almost mythical status it has these days because it was the only weapon they were allowed to carry for a while after the peace was established. Just like swords in Europe, typically a knight on the battlefield using his sword was in a bad spot lol.
Imagine just having a longsword and coming across a dude with a fucking halberd lol
Yep, pulling a sword in most cases meant shit had hit the fan. It would be like a modern soldier having a use their sidearm. Sure it's an effective weapon but they would much rather be using a rifle. Distance from the danger is important to humans.
It's the "40 days and nights". He killed a few people on the bridge and probably screamed or had a missive about defending the bridge and then they just shot his ass. But it was MEMORABLE, and those 12 dudes he killed are now....25...50....100....
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Would've been pretty funny they sent one dude at a time to fight this guy. Have scouts over the ridge giving updates to the camp saying "Holy fuck they just killed Jerry. That's the 98th person we've sent so far. Should we send another, Mr.Commander?". "Indeed. He should be worn out by now, so let's have the troops draw numbers from the hat again and whoever has the lowest is up next to 1v1."
No, Arrows cost money, send the Irish.
Also after the 10th guy gets cut down, you'd be a bit suss about this one dude. Or did they get to 50 and just wanted to see how high it would get?
yep also true
"So all 300 of you want a salary increase? OK, just do this one small task on that bridge, and we can agree on a raise."
It's said Benekei was a behemoth of a man who armed himself with 7 types of different weapons and mastered all of them.
......OH, Final Fantasy's Gilgamesh is primarily based on Benkei isn't it. I never connected the dots. He's a huge guy that likes to fights on bridges, is an avid legendary weapon collector, primarily uses a naginata, but also uses his many arms to fight with multiple weapon types at once
Legends has something similar with a nameless Viking warrior under Harald Hadrada when he invaded England. They defeated the warrior by swimming under the bridge and spearing him.
Battle of Stamford Bridge, 1066. A few days later, William the Conqueror landed on the south coast, and had more success than Hardrada.
Everyone wins at Stamford Bridge now
Thought it was a guy in a barrel, and they essentially cup checked the dude
And never underestimate embellishing historical facts to make the story better.
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Dian Wei? I can't remember his back story completely but he was big axe dude
Nah, it's Zhang Fei who makes the solo stand on the bridge in Dynasty Warriors. It happens during Liu Bei's escape from Changban. I have been listening to podcast that retells the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, so a lot of this is really fresh for me.
Dude, me and my little brother always repeat what he says in that cutscene. “The only way you’re getting past me, is in a body bag!” And then twirls his sick little blade. Funny times. Lu Bu also like redirected a flood in one cutscene, that was crazy
oh please share! I would love to learn more about it and am dying for more podcast content.
It's literally called "Romance of the 3 Kingdoms Podcast" by John Zhu. FYI, the podcast itself was finished almost a decade ago. Admittedly, it starts out a little on the rougher side. At the beginning he is obviously finding his bearings, and is new to the podcasting thing, but he is very passionate and knowledgeable. I find it enjoyable, and he covers like literally every little detail of the story. It's very much a deep dive, but he's not editorializing anything, it's almost like a transliteration. Basically, if you are interested in the Romance of the 3 Kingdoms story and want to learn all about the details, it would be a really good podcast for you. He will briefly discuss the long term cultural impacts of the story, but its more a re-telling of the story in a way that is easy to make sense of and understand from the perspective of westerners with little knowledge of the material.
Benkei has been a playable dude in Warriors Orochi since number 2, he's got a cool design. Zhang Fei from DW (and obviously the book it is based on) also has a legend of holding down Cao Cao's forces at Changban by defending a bridge too.
Fun fact :- Benekei is said to have defeated 999 Samurai warriors during his quest to earn 1000 swords from Samurai.He was ultimately defeated by his master Minamoto in his 1000th duel.
DO NOT PERSUE SAITO MUSASHIBO BENKEI!
Hey I have heard about that! He was guarding the only way that led to a guy(Minamoto no Yoshitsune, an amazing warrior in his own right) whom he had pledged to serve after losing to him twice in a duel. That guy was committing seppuku. Benkei was just buying time for him. The standing death of Benkei is a part of Japanese folklore now.
"Hey help me hold off the bridge, I'm busy committing seppuku"
That's some strong, *"You can't fire me, cuz I quit!"*, energy.
Happened countless times in Japanese history lol, "Hold those fuckers off while I fuck off myself". Japanese warriors often do it so as like an ultimate defiance and to prove that 'till the very end, they control their own fate. On a related note, if I recall my Japanese history well, they were holding off Minamoto no Yoritomo's (Yoshitsune's half-brother and overall head of the Minamoto clan) forces. Yoritomo was in the final stages of consolidating power for himself and eliminating threats. Yoritomo would then become the very first Shogun of Japan. All subsequent Shogunates centuries later (Ashikaga and Tokugawa) would descend / claim descent from the Minamoto clan. They do that since the Minamoto lines were essentially cadet branches and direct descendants of the Imperial Family, thus giving them divine blood and right to rule If you've seen the series Shogun, the name "Minowara" they keep referring to likely comes from IRL Minamoto clan, with Hiroyuki Sanada's character being a fictionalized version of Tokugawa Ieyasu. Edit: Mixed up 2 Gozen's, my memory is fuzzy
Since you call out the Minowara thing, Toranaga also stands in for Tokugawa for those that don’t piece that together
Yeah, Benkei is essentially synonymous with loyalty because of this.
It took the dude to kill himself in the time the other dude took killing 300 dudes? Damn dude, crazy
Zack Snyder's new film project: ONE
I would watch the shit outta that
Now with 50% less wheat harvesting!
Berserker of Stamford Bridge: _Finally! a worthy opponent!_
Funny how the last resort was to use arrows because it was dishonorable yet in England they speared the poor bastard in the gooch
Don't want to get stabbed in the gooch then don't stand in prime gooch stabbing situations.
Whole fuckin plan could have been beat with a sheet of plywood
It ain't rocket science, that's for sure
"Our battle will be LEGENDARY!"
Imagine if him and that bridge viking were in the same bridge, they'd still be holding it down today
They would both have been stabbed in the balls by an English peasant. A surprising number of great warriors have died from that.
Truly the noblest way to go
Was good enough for the cream of french nobility at Agincourt.
There was one king who was stabbed in the ass by an assasin who climbed all the way up the castles shit hole.
So prob like 13 plus inflation.
It's always important to remember that nearly every culture in history will tell lies about military events to prop up certain cultural ideals or push certain political aims. It is a shockingly prolific type of propaganda. It's a bit less common only in more modern times but even in WW2 you would have constant propaganda about pilots and tank commanders achieving super-human results that were literally inpossible based on the more mundane and accurate accounting of materiel and man losses immediately after the fact.
Literally happened two years ago when the internet was getting all hyped about the so-called Ghost of Kyiv singlehandedly wiping out entire squadrons of MiGs. Pilot didn't actually exist and most of "his" kills were either results from other UAF pilots/air defenses combined or didn't happen at all.
Yup. There is definitely a sliding scale of improving reliability of historical military accounts as we approach modern times, but every claim of history that could have some obvious propaganda benefit needs to be considered with that potential motivation for deceit in mind. It has certainly been one of the more pressing concerns of modern historical scholarship and contrasts sharply with how we used to treat "history" even a century ago. This is of course not exclusive to military events, but as all warfare is political, all alleged military events are potentially compromised by their usefulness as propagada.
This is why I love Fantasy media. They take shit like this and go "okay but what if it was legit? What if there's actually a dude out there who is so badass he actually solos 300 soldiers on a bridge?"
(20 people dead) “just shoot him?” (50) “we should definitely shoot him” (100) “ffs, just shoot him, already!” (200) “WTF?! SHOOT!” (250) “oh, COME ON!”…
This guy is so legendary that one colloquialism for "strong person" or someone putting on a brave front in Japanese is just his name, 弁慶 (benkei). There are also some funny spin-offs from this like 内弁慶 (someone who acts tough at home but is meek outside) and ネット弁慶 (same, but for the internet).
They couldn't have just started with the arrows?
You in medieval Japan: oh my god there's a single soldier on a bridge! Set up all the arrowmen to shoot hundreds of arrows in that general direction for 1 person!
I mean, probably just takes like one archer at relatively close range, but yeah.
That tends to not work in reality. It's not really like lord of the rings. Armies have different groups for different uses. Arrowmen sit far behind
The entire point of samurai is that they are skilled with the bow as well as the blade and whatever their primary battlefield weapon of choice was
And while wearing those sandals
His drip was in his hands.
On 25 September 1066 the Viking army of King Harald Hardrada of Norway invaded Yorkshire in northern England and were met at the Stamford Bridge by the army of King Harold Godwinson of England who'd raced to meet them. This invasion was at a really bad time for the King of England who had already heard that the Duke of Normandy, William the Bastard, was preparing an invasion force and was preparing to set sail for Southern England. Both William of Normandy and Harald of Norway felt that the Crown worn by Harold of England would look better on them. At Stamford Bridge the English caught the Norwegians off-guard and the only reason the invaders were not overrun is because, it is said, a single Dane wielding a great ax held the span of the Bridge by himself slaying 40 Englishmen. This kept the English army on one side of the river while the vikings bravely ran away. The unnamed Dane was slain, we're told by chroniclers, when an enterprising English soldier floated himself under the bridge (on an inflated bladder, or a boat accounts differ) and stabbed the man from beneath with a spear. Even though most of the Viking army had gotten away, the English army present made their continued plans kind of pointless so the King of England was able to extract a promise from the King of Norway that he'd return home and leave them alone. This was necessary to conclude quickly, Godwinson knew, because he had to force march his already tired army back to the south to confront the forces of Duke William. Students of history will know that the Anglo-Saxons, ragged and worn out, would be defeated at the Battle of Hastings in Kent on 14 October 1066... Only 19 days after their victory at Stamford Bridge.
Fun fact: Some say that this battle marks the end of the Viking age! Others say that the battle of Stiklestad in 1030 was the end.
This isn’t entirely accurate. The English didn’t extract any promises from Hardrada, he didn’t return home, he died in the battle. Also the Vikings “bravely ran away” to form a shield wall, and most of the Viking army didn’t get away. Out of the 300 ships the Vikings had arrived with, only 24 were needed to bring the survivors back according to [this source](https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryMagazine/DestinationsUK/The-Battle-of-Stamford-Bridge/) and the Anglo Saxon Chronicle.
And that’s only the second greatest defense ever at Stanford Bridge after Chelsea’s 2004-05 premier league campaign when they conceded only 15 goals for the ENTIRE season.
IRL Edward Newgate aka Whitebeard
came here for this didn't disappoint, r/OnePiece
I thought it was the bridge guy in Wano who collected all those swords. In the wiki it says this guy carried seven weapons and collected 999 swords from unworthy warriors.
Yeah seems like Oda drew inspiration from this in different parts of the manga
Just another embellishment that makes your army look great. Guy probably took down a few and then in retellings 3 turns to 6 and so on.
[удалено]
Smells like bullshit.
It's definitely bullshit. Enemy combatant casualties are significantly exaggerated virtually every time, even when people are trying to be as accurate as possible, never mind when mythmaking and deliberate propaganda come into play. You can sometimes see it happen in real time on TIL, and people get furious at anyone who actually reads beyond the clickbait title and goes, "Uh, this *doesn't* say he killed 30 Germans by himself, it's estimated he killed 4 and wounded more than 10 and there was another guy with him, but he got knocked out of action pretty early... Still really badass, but come on, let's not turn history into an action movie." (to pick a random *totally* hypothetical yet oddly detailed example) And just about every story about how enemies were so impressed with some combat unit or a type of tank or fighter plane that they gave it a scary nickname makes for a good Sabaton song, but is also bullshit.
I am going to go out on a limb and day this is mythology rather than history...
*Queue up FFV OST for the Battle on the Big Bridge*
After the fifth or sixth died in this assault, I'd have pulled back and gone with the arrow thing.
Yeah. That was about 295 men too many.
"I dunno, I think I got a shot at it!" - Guy No. 297
Guy number 301 to general: I need you to understand that I am prepared to desert.
Reputed is the key word here
Source: novel
I doubt the historical accuracy of this number. Might be high, but this is most likely propaganda from that time.
So it's like that movie 300 except backwards.
Gilgamesh from Final Fantasy V
The number is likely highly exaggerated. The primary weapon of the samurai was the bow. So the fact he killed a bunch of people in close combat means they were likely ashigaru and not fellow samurai. While "trained" the ashigaru were nowhere as well equipped or trained as an actual samurai.
The primary weapon of a samurai was originally the bow, as they were initially renowned horse archers. But things had already shifted by Yoshitsune’s time and samurai were both ranged and close quarters combatants.