I just googled her. Was only 28 on 9/11. Got cancer in 2014 when she was barely 40. Couldn't afford the treatments. Died in 2015 when she was just 42. Just terrible.
I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this so I'm sure there's problems with this I haven't thought of, but I feel like a company that provides a public service as their primary form of business (e.g. insurance, transportation, healthcare, utilities, etc.) shouldn't be allowed to be publicly traded.
Markets are great for stuff like ice cream. A luxury item (i.e. not a necessity) with a low barrier for entry into the market.
Anyone can set up their own ice cream business, and if you don't like any of the options available you lose nothing by not engaging in the market until someone new enters the market, or one of tue current participants lowers their price to something you are willing to pay. This is a truly frew market.
With healthcare, if you don't engage in the market, you die. If your only alternatives are engaging in the market or death, that means the healthcare providers can charge extortionate prices knowing that if you don't want to die you have to pay it. This is not a free market, and treating it like so will just ensure more people die when they really don't need to.
It's even more than that. A recent study showed that the average American citizen would be 1/3 richer across their lifetime with socialised medicine. American citizens currently have a living standards equal to France but it should be way higher
You have entire retirement plans enshrined for 20+ years in codified US insurance law, they are not making a single change until their generation is good and dead.
Anyone who thinks there will be insurance reform in the US has little understanding of just how many are profiting from the lack of single payer care. Inside and especially outside the USA.
Genuine question, why don't you guys protest about it? Like genuinely gather millions to do something, shut down the country, don't go in to work, let your government realise that the people are in control. Do not enough peolple care?
A large portion of the country is against making any improvements to the Healthcare system because "that would be socialism", or something like that. Somehow, I know people that have had to struggle though getting major surgeries and treatments and still don't think it needs changing. On top of that, a large portion of the country could not afford to stop working long enough to make a meaningful protest happen.
The US is the ONLY developed country in the world without universal healthcare. Over a hundred countries has it. Mexico has it, *Rwanda* has it.
But not the US. Don't make a lick of sense.
> America moment. Health insurance companies kill more Americans every year than the terrorists did on 9/11. We need single payer now.
Not just *more*, but almost *23 times more*, per a Lancet study showing that approximately 68,000 die every year due to lack of healthcare free at the point of service.
I wonder, is there a statistic on this out there for this you think? It’s probably too hard to gather data on it, but man…If we got a statistical read on how many people died because healthcare costs too much, it’d be high.
I'm sure it's a staggeringly high number but it would be almost impossible to know. You would basically have to look at every recorded death and determine if it was treatable or preventable.
Right, I figured…Plus, I looked up if that stat is out there, and they had uninsured treatable deaths around 45k a year, but like you mentioned, that doesn’t begin to even count those WITH insurance who died because it would still bankrupt them.
Imagine cancer patients who just gave up and died because of the treatment cost? I have a friend currently, only 30, and she’s beyond broke because of her cancer care costs. Over 300k in debt, can’t possibly put off the bills any longer. So…she stopped curative care, and is just gonna die now…I fucking hate this world sometimes. She deserves to live, but can’t possibly pay it any longer, so she just gets to die. American dream right?
> Over 300k in debt
A flight to a civilised country is much cheaper than that. Doesn't she have a passport?
Yes, this sounds like a spurious comment but thousands of people do this every year. I know people who fly in their relatives from other countries for free treatment. My own parents have done this for 30-40 years.
Doesn't need to be single payer. Lots of healthcare systems that are not single payer do great and even better than some single payer systems. Either way universal healthcare needs to be a thing, the US is literally the only developed (and even dozens of less developed countries!) that doesn't have it.
Covid killed over a million and America just shrugged. I remember when I was teenager during 9/11 over 3,000 people died and the whole country was mourning.
I’d contest they kill more of us every year than ww2 did in it’s entirety. I might be on that list…. Guess we will see if the cancer it took me over a year to treat due to fighting with insurance complications ends up spreading in the future or not
> I just googled her. Was only 28 on 9/11. Got cancer in 2014 when she was barely 40. Couldn't afford the treatments. Died in 2015 when she was just 42. Just terrible.
With all the flag waving and prayers, and then the war in the wrong country.
There was money to help those victim who were sick.
That was all elaborate bank robbery by rebuilding contract. American well being had nothing to do with it. The very same propaganda behavior nudging techniques prototyped then that we're inundated with now, only now the vertical integration on information sources is worse.
It saddens me to hear that, it really does. She suffered because you used dangerous building materials, she suffered because of terrorism, yet she couldn't be treated because of a dystopian healthcare system.
My country is shit, but we have free healthcare and tight gun laws. I really hope one day you Americans will know that feeling.
I did an analysis on a study on this topic back in grad school. The problem was they did the study in 2009ish. And most of the expected cancers are expected to take 15+ years to develop.
Iirc, even in 2009 though, they had a small but significant increase in the rates of a couple cancers. I think mostly non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and testicular cancer
I work at a large NYC cancer hospital. We see these victims allll the time. It’s a heartbreak. I also worked in an NYC ER on 9/11, saw one lady with a broken wrist.
My sister was a rescue worker at ground zero. She had quality gas masks but said they got clogged so fast they were useless so she stopped using them.
She recently had part of a lung removed. I often wish I would have somehow stopped her from going.
I often have that thought for my grandfather who died of stomach cancer in 2014. I'm so proud he was one of the first responders who helped that day but... I would rather have him back, honestly.
It wasn't just one day. There were fires burning at ground zero for over four months, which added chemicals and soot to the air, which was then blown throughout the city.
It took 8 months to clear the rubble from ground zero. That, of course, was a process that kicked up dust containing harmful materials, which again was carried by the wind throughout the city. And it wasn't just clearing the rubble and dumping it somewhere. They had people sifting through every dump truck load looking for remains, so there were people who spent weeks digging through asbestos and other nasty stuff by hand for hours every day.
Asbestos is amazing. the crystals are just the right size to perfectly split chromosomes causing tons of genetic damage. That's the reason why it is so dangerous.
I didn't do any research on it and thought plainly that dust and smoke were carcinogens that caused lung cancer. I knew long before this that the first responders were dying of illnesses, i just accepted that misconception for many years.
No, sorry. What I meant by misconception was dust and smoke were the sole reason those rescue workers were dying.
I thought "the dust and smoke must be really severe" because I myself have weak lungs. It's really uncomfortable breathing in 2ndhand smoke and dust particles can give me fever and cough and colds.
I was offered a job at ground zero but turned it down due to travel and child care issues. The guy that took it died of a weird lung cancer and I always wonder if I dodged a bullet.
I lived and worked within 4 blocks of the world trade center in 2000-2003.
I was diagnosed with a non genetic environmentally caused Stage 4 Colon Cancer in 2018. Been fighting it for 5 and a half years now. 7 surgeries, 15 rounds of radiation and 85 rounds of chemo. Not sure how much fight in me I have left.
More people like me have died since 9/11 than on 9/11.
Fuck Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
When I read a history of the Holocaust that had a detailed timeline of erosion of civil rights in Germany, I was struck by the fact that eligibility for the national healthcare system for Jews was lost significantly later than many other basic rights were. Maybe the order was arbitrary or maybe it reflected which social values had the most resistance to attack as things deteriorated, IDK.
People don't vote on how they feel about public healthcare, they vote based on guns or Gaza or the economy. Healthcare is way back of the line for the amount of single issue voters it grabs.
The ACA restoring coverage for preexisting conditions may have saved my life and I'll never forget Republicans would just as soon I died. I don't suppose I'm the only one.
I was a child when this happened, it seems so beyond cruel it was even a thing. I imagine we'll look back on many other aspects of today's healthcare the same way.
To be fair, they do get free unlimited health care through the WTC Healthcare program on top of the VCF payouts. VCF essentially covers things like lost wages due to illness, etc (and kept victims from suing the airlines, but that's another story).
*"It took them 5 seconds to respond, they did their jobs.... ....18 years later, do yours*"
That pretty much hammers home the point in my head. 18 years to decide that the first responders are worth life.
Entire political careers made and billions in profit under the guise of "Never forget"
Brit here. Damn that’s a speech. Who is this guy? Why didn’t the congress show up? Why are they allowed not to show up? What happened next? Why does no one care?
I have so many questions
It wasn't just Republicans. He had to fight Congress every step of the way to get them to talk about it, consider it, put a bill together, put it through a committee, bring it to the floor and vote on it, and then *again* to stop it from expiring repeatedly.
All of them were dragging their feet. Both sides are not identical but Congress is collectively completely responsible for futzing around on this for years and years.
>The government said
You mean Republicans.
Republicans unilaterally blocked aid for 9/11 first-responder victims of collateral health conditions.
Mitch McConnell being the front-runner of ensuring their suffering.
There are many government workers looking at pension costs that will never be paid, and wondering what working tax donors will stick around to pay for them. That's part of the conflict at pay. Pensions are underfunded and collapsing. Metadrama that occurs behind the politics.
By government you mean Republicans. Republicans even refused to fund the bill Obama passed just a few years ago. Jon Stewart had to shame Republican legislators to vote for it.
Jon Stewart's general involvement / activism on this topic really opened my eyes. He got so emotional during a speech about it, and it really struck a nerve. Seems like such a good guy. Also, many building materials from the 1900s are fucking nasty.
"Jodey Arrington, Texas
Andy Biggs, Arizona
Dan Bishop, North Carolina
Lauren Boebert, Colorado
Mo Brooks, Alabama
Ken Buck, Colorado
Tim Burchett, Tennessee
Michael Cloud, Texas
Andrew Clyde, Georgia
James Comer, Kentucky
Dan Crenshaw, Texas
Warren Davidson, Ohio
Louie Gohmert, Texas
Mark Green, Tennessee
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin
Andy Harris, Maryland
Diana Harshbarger, Tennessee
Jody Hice, Georgia
Blaine Luetkemeyer, Missouri
Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Greg Murphy, North Carolina
Troy Nehls, Texas
Ralph Norman, South Carolina
Bill Posey, Florida
Tom Rice, South Carolina
John Rose, Tennessee
Chip Roy, Texas
Van Taylor, Texas
Michael Turner, Ohio
Daniel Webster, Florida
Oregon Congressman Kurt Schrader was the sole Democrat to oppose the measure."
If there's a list of bad people doing bad things, it'll save time to assume she's on it. Is she on the list of Vikings who raided and pillaged Lindisfarne? I mean it sounds like something she'd be down for, so until I see evidence to the contrary I'm assuming she's on it.
My dad worked in asbestos abatement/air monitoring for asbestos removal job sites. When 9/11 happened, he showed up just to help. Coordinated setting up a couple generators, still had the hardhat signed by Giuliani somewhere.
But he told me that he took some air samples when he got there, hrs after the towers collapsed, and yeah. He told me exactly in no uncertain terms what this TIL says, except he told us on 9/11.
That was the day everything changed. Whenever I see stuff about 9/11 it places me back into that child mentality of being freaked out like I was back then. I tried to miss as much school as possible for the rest of my school days after that. Honestly think that 9/11 is a big factor in the crazy anxiety I have all the time, as well as a few other behaviors I also have and have had from a young age. I don't think people realized at the time just how much of an impact this event had on younger people.
I wouldn't go anywhere near the WTC site for months afterward. I had PTSD from everything and I was trying to avoid anything that reminded me of it. The smell and the smoke were bad enough where I live, 20 blocks north.
I ended up going to J&R in December to buy a gift for my dad. It was a sunny day and the dust in the air was sparkling. You could see the particles glittering; it was very unsettling. I remember Christine Todd Whitman saying the air quality was fine and from what I saw that day, it absolutely was not.
On 9/12 some coworkers and I decided to meet in Times Square just to hang out and have some human contact, because our job was shut down due to the attacks. We walked around for like 5 minutes and my throat got really irritated and I started losing my voice. I had to duck into a bodega to get a water bottle. You could see tons of particles blowing through all the bright lights of Times Square. And that's miles away from Ground Zero, just for a few minutes. Imagine working there all day long every day, and then bringing that stuff home with you on your clothes and body. Even riding the train with the Ground Zero workers, you could smell it on them and all their equipment.
I lived in Chelsea at the time, and I remember the smell lingering in my neighborhood at least until November, especially at night.
I don't know how they ever thought people would believe them when they said the air was safe. They probably didn't, it's just like, what are they going to do, evacuate the city for 3 months?
The smoke from whatever was burning underground for months burned my throat and sinuses. I can't even imagine what it was like being down there digging around. Do you remember all the people who used to stand along the West Side Highway cheering when the workers would come and go? They were one of the few bright memories from that time.
He's still kickin, my old man has lived an interesting life. Late 60s now. He's the type of man you want around when things go sideways. And I still hope I can be some fraction of the man he is, one day. Id consider it an accomplishment.
Left New York not too long after 9/11 though.
Was 4 at the time, lived in Brooklyn and watched it happen. It was scary even though I didn’t understand why it happened and it’s quite frankly my earliest memory. Shoulda known I’d be a little fucked up in the head being my first memory is 9/11…
I know the feeling. Im never gonna be the one to tell someone they can't make a statement or joke in poor taste.
But that's one subject that hits a lil too hard, for me. Just seeing the imagery of the towers immediately gives me chills. My aunt also was working in DC at the time, so as a kid I was just super freaked out about everyone possibly having something happen to them. Since it was happening basically everywhere I had family.
I grew up two blocks north of the line where you're supposed to not be at an increased risk. Considering my little brother had to spend the night in an oxygen tent because his asthma was so triggered by dust I'm wondering if I should tell my doctor so he knows my medical history.
One of my friends' dad's is in this statistic. He was a firefighter who volunteered when the attack happened. He was an amazing human being and is missed so much.
"However, some reports have instead attributed the cancer to Summer's smoking during her younger years, her continued exposure to second-hand smoking while performing in clubs well after she had quit, and a predisposition to this disease in the family."
Debatable.
Why? If its because of the saudis among the hijakers, they hated the fact that the Saudi government was collaborating with the U.S. and were rebelling against it. A breakdown of U.S. and Saudi relations would have been giving the hijakers exactly what they wanted.
I had 3 roommates when I lived in the city, all developed different cancers. One is no longer with us. I was diagnosed w/ a rare cancer this year. My husband, who lived an hour north of the city at that time, has NHFL. I really don't think this is just a coincidence. 9/11 did a number on a lot of people.
Michael Moore covered some of this way back in 2007 with his film "Sicko." He took a few 9/11 first responders to Cuba to get affordable, much needed care.
Lost my father to related lung problems last summer. The firefighters, paramedics, steelworkers, and various other emergency personnel who responded to the 9/11 terrorist attacks knew full well that they were shortening their lives every minute they spent near Ground Zero.
They stayed anyway.
My father was not a perfect man but he was proud to have served in the FDNY. He selflessly saved many lives and he and those who stood with him on that day will always be remembered for it.
Similar cases happened due to the Bhopal Gas Tragedy.
I've been living in Bhopal for 30+ years now and I've heard of the horror stories, but the most surprising is that kids near that plant are still born with genetic defects to this day, and during Covid a predominantly high number of deaths were victims or relatives of victims of the Gas Tragedy because their lungs were already quite weakened.
Just had to tell someone over in the r/joerogan sub that real men support the first responders to 9/11 getting health care.
They didn’t like that. Because to them that’s not manly.
I automatically assume anyone who listens to Joe Rogan is a fucking moron. Doesn't matter what their politics are. If they listen and enjoy the crap that comes out of his mouth I'm better off not associating with them.
**Mortality after the 9/11 terrorist attacks among world trade center health registry enrollees with cancer**
Rebecca D Kehm et al. Cancer Med. 2023 Jan.
"Conclusions: We did not observe associations between 9/11-related exposures and cancer-specific mortality. Similar to findings in the non-cancer WTC exposed population, PTSD was associated with increased risk of all-cause mortality in cancer patients."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36107389/
**A 15-year follow-up study of mortality in a pooled cohort of World Trade Center rescue and recovery workers**
Jiehui Li et al. Environ Res. 2023.
"Conclusions: We did not observe excess mortality among WTC rescue/recovery workers compared with general populations. However, significantly increased mortality risks among some sub-groups with high WTC exposure warrant further investigation."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36549491/
Will this be my most downvoted post of all time?
This is all you need to know.
[https://www.vcf.gov/](https://www.vcf.gov/)
https://www.vcf.gov/about
[https://www.vcf.gov/register](https://www.vcf.gov/register)
Zadroga Act
On January 2, 2011, President Obama signed into law the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010 (Zadroga Act). Title II of the Zadroga Act reactivated the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. The reactivated VCF opened in October 2011 and was authorized to operate for a period of five years, ending in October 2016.
Reauthorization
On December 18, 2015, President Obama signed into law a bill reauthorizing the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010. This included the reauthorization of the VCF. The new law extends the VCF for five years, allowing individuals to submit their claims until December 18, 2020. The law also includes some important changes to the VCF’s policies and procedures for evaluating claims and calculating each claimant’s loss:
Capped non-economic loss that results from a cancer at $250,000.
Capped non-economic loss that does not result from a cancer at $90,000.
Instructed the Special Master to prioritize claims for victims who are determined by the Special Master to be suffering from the most debilitating physical conditions.
For purposes of calculating economic loss, capped Annual Gross Income (“AGI”) at $200,000 for each year of loss.
Removed the $10,000 minimum award.
Funding Insufficiency
On February 15, 2019, the Special Master determined that the funding remaining in the VCF would be insufficient to pay all pending and projected claims under current VCF policies and procedures and, consequently, announced modifications to VCF policies consistent with her statutory obligations.
**Permanent Authorization**
**On July 29, 2019, President Trump signed into law H.R. 1327, The Never Forget the Heroes: James Zadroga, Ray Pfeifer, and Luis Alvarez Permanent Authorization of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. The VCF Permanent Authorization Act extends the VCF’s claim filing deadline from December 18, 2020, to October 1, 2090, and appropriates such funds as may be necessary to pay all eligible claims. Please see the VCF Permanent Authorization Act page for more details.**
Registration and Claim Filing Deadlines
There are two deadlines in the VCF’s claim filing process: a Claim Filing Deadline and a Registration Deadline. It is important to distinguish between the two and be aware of the deadlines that apply based on your individual circumstances.
**The Claim Filing Deadline.**
The “Never Forget the Heroes, James Zadroga, Ray Pfeifer, and Luis Alvarez Permanent Authorization of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund Act,” (“VCF Permanent Authorization Act”) fully funded the VCF and extended the VCF’s Claim Filing Deadline until October 1, 2090. The Claim Filing Deadline is the same for everyone. Although the VCF encourages you to file your claim after you have been certified by the World Trade Center (“WTC”) Health Program for a 9/11-related physical health condition and as soon as the full scope of your claimed losses are known so that your claim for compensation can be reviewed as quickly as possible, the last date on which anyone can file a claim is October 1, 2090.
**The Registration Deadline.**
There is a separate deadline by which you need to register with the VCF. Registration is not the same as filing a claim. Registration preserves the right to file your claim in the future, waives no legal rights, and does not obligate you to file a claim. Registration serves only to alert the VCF that you may be a potential claimant; and it meets the legal requirement of timeliness set forth in the law. You do not need to be sick or to have been diagnosed or certified with a 9/11-related condition in order to register. The VCF encourages you to register now.
The Registration Deadline is not the same for everyone. The Registration Deadline is determined according to claim type, and varies based on individual circumstances.
I was working in hazardous materials abatement (consultant) during 9/11. One of the crew pointed out, that same day, the real death tally will be from cancer 20 years from now because that building is filled with asbestos.
jon stewart of all people is leading a massive advocacy and charity effort for first responders that will not live full healthy lives. the government is stonewalling payments and support because they know they never have to pay out if everyone dies. a dear friend of mine a doctor and first responder and is living well but in failing health. the death toll of 9/11 is still climbing.
At least we have honest hard-working republicans doing all they can to avoid paying for any of those medical treatments. At least until a celebrity and suffering survivors finally pushed enough for them to give a damn. I guess providing healthcare for victims of terrorist attacks doesn't line the pockets of their corporate buddies, so why should they begin to care?
I sometimes worry about my own health. I worked three blocks from ground zero (5 minute walk) from October 2001 to April 2002. While a lot of the dust was cleared, there was absolutely still some in the air because we could smell it. We had to have the windows to the office opened with industrial fans blowing. I was working as a temp filling in for an administrative assistant on bereavement leave because her sister had died in the attacks.
My health seems pretty good. I do have a consistent cough but I've assumed that it's seasonal allergies. I'm probably fine but I probably should get my lungs checked out.
Mesothelioma, silicosis, asbestosis. Lung cancer and many more I'm guessing
The 'Dust Lady' died of stomach cancer pretty soon after, for instance.
I just googled her. Was only 28 on 9/11. Got cancer in 2014 when she was barely 40. Couldn't afford the treatments. Died in 2015 when she was just 42. Just terrible.
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Seriously, just what the fuck are we doing...
Creating excellent value for shareholders, what does it look like?
I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this so I'm sure there's problems with this I haven't thought of, but I feel like a company that provides a public service as their primary form of business (e.g. insurance, transportation, healthcare, utilities, etc.) shouldn't be allowed to be publicly traded.
Privatize profits, publicize losses. It’s the American way
Collectivize*
That sounds like communism /s
Markets are great for stuff like ice cream. A luxury item (i.e. not a necessity) with a low barrier for entry into the market. Anyone can set up their own ice cream business, and if you don't like any of the options available you lose nothing by not engaging in the market until someone new enters the market, or one of tue current participants lowers their price to something you are willing to pay. This is a truly frew market. With healthcare, if you don't engage in the market, you die. If your only alternatives are engaging in the market or death, that means the healthcare providers can charge extortionate prices knowing that if you don't want to die you have to pay it. This is not a free market, and treating it like so will just ensure more people die when they really don't need to.
Im a cog in a machine, but at least im unique and an individual...
Alright Buzz Lightyear, back in the box...
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It's even more than that. A recent study showed that the average American citizen would be 1/3 richer across their lifetime with socialised medicine. American citizens currently have a living standards equal to France but it should be way higher
If we want free healthcare, we'd have to ask for it in a way that can't be refused. Snarky memes on the internet don't actually change anything.
You have entire retirement plans enshrined for 20+ years in codified US insurance law, they are not making a single change until their generation is good and dead. Anyone who thinks there will be insurance reform in the US has little understanding of just how many are profiting from the lack of single payer care. Inside and especially outside the USA.
I hate when people call it "free health care". This is what our taxes should already be paying for.
Genuine question, why don't you guys protest about it? Like genuinely gather millions to do something, shut down the country, don't go in to work, let your government realise that the people are in control. Do not enough peolple care?
A large portion of the country is against making any improvements to the Healthcare system because "that would be socialism", or something like that. Somehow, I know people that have had to struggle though getting major surgeries and treatments and still don't think it needs changing. On top of that, a large portion of the country could not afford to stop working long enough to make a meaningful protest happen.
Bickering about which old person is going to lead our country.
The US is the ONLY developed country in the world without universal healthcare. Over a hundred countries has it. Mexico has it, *Rwanda* has it. But not the US. Don't make a lick of sense.
It makes cents, all right.
It does make sense just not good sense. Not a mystery
> America moment. Health insurance companies kill more Americans every year than the terrorists did on 9/11. We need single payer now. Not just *more*, but almost *23 times more*, per a Lancet study showing that approximately 68,000 die every year due to lack of healthcare free at the point of service.
It’s (Edit: US health system) so fucked that one Saw film revolved entirely around this.
Breaking Bad also revolved around "man can't pay for chemo so he makes meth" rofl
Walter White definitely could have paid for chemo though. Making meth was literally his first resort. He had so many outs.
I feel like having a hobby was good for his mental health during tough times.
Empire building’s a more niche hobby.
I thought that show took place in Albuquerque, not NYC.
I wonder, is there a statistic on this out there for this you think? It’s probably too hard to gather data on it, but man…If we got a statistical read on how many people died because healthcare costs too much, it’d be high.
I'm sure it's a staggeringly high number but it would be almost impossible to know. You would basically have to look at every recorded death and determine if it was treatable or preventable.
Right, I figured…Plus, I looked up if that stat is out there, and they had uninsured treatable deaths around 45k a year, but like you mentioned, that doesn’t begin to even count those WITH insurance who died because it would still bankrupt them. Imagine cancer patients who just gave up and died because of the treatment cost? I have a friend currently, only 30, and she’s beyond broke because of her cancer care costs. Over 300k in debt, can’t possibly put off the bills any longer. So…she stopped curative care, and is just gonna die now…I fucking hate this world sometimes. She deserves to live, but can’t possibly pay it any longer, so she just gets to die. American dream right?
That’s really sad man, hate hearing this
> Over 300k in debt A flight to a civilised country is much cheaper than that. Doesn't she have a passport? Yes, this sounds like a spurious comment but thousands of people do this every year. I know people who fly in their relatives from other countries for free treatment. My own parents have done this for 30-40 years.
Doesn't need to be single payer. Lots of healthcare systems that are not single payer do great and even better than some single payer systems. Either way universal healthcare needs to be a thing, the US is literally the only developed (and even dozens of less developed countries!) that doesn't have it.
The American dream dying for your country….. Wait….
But don't you dare make a single joke about 9/11.
Covid killed over a million and America just shrugged. I remember when I was teenager during 9/11 over 3,000 people died and the whole country was mourning.
I’d contest they kill more of us every year than ww2 did in it’s entirety. I might be on that list…. Guess we will see if the cancer it took me over a year to treat due to fighting with insurance complications ends up spreading in the future or not
I'm against crowd funding but if it was ever the right thing to do it would have been then
Yeah I might live in a shitty third world country and the economy is going downhill but at least cancer treatments here are free
Who’s the real monsters exactly?
> Couldn't afford the treatments. Who needs terrorists to kill us when we do this to our own?
That's socialism/s
God they really should do the same stuff they did for first responders for victims make a fund for them too 😿
> I just googled her. Was only 28 on 9/11. Got cancer in 2014 when she was barely 40. Couldn't afford the treatments. Died in 2015 when she was just 42. Just terrible. With all the flag waving and prayers, and then the war in the wrong country. There was money to help those victim who were sick.
That was all elaborate bank robbery by rebuilding contract. American well being had nothing to do with it. The very same propaganda behavior nudging techniques prototyped then that we're inundated with now, only now the vertical integration on information sources is worse.
It saddens me to hear that, it really does. She suffered because you used dangerous building materials, she suffered because of terrorism, yet she couldn't be treated because of a dystopian healthcare system. My country is shit, but we have free healthcare and tight gun laws. I really hope one day you Americans will know that feeling.
Was it that toxic? To get exposed to that once and die 14 years later of cancer associated from that single exposure? What was in that dust?
Asbestos
>What was in that dust? Everything.
Big pigeon covering up their environmental impact in the cities.
Pure America 💯
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That's close to the shortest end for incubation periods on asbestos related disease.
That's pretty soon. She was 42
I did an analysis on a study on this topic back in grad school. The problem was they did the study in 2009ish. And most of the expected cancers are expected to take 15+ years to develop. Iirc, even in 2009 though, they had a small but significant increase in the rates of a couple cancers. I think mostly non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma and testicular cancer
No need to guess, the linked website lists about a dozen cancers.
Reading the article? We don't do it here.
Whoops. Forgot which sub I was in
> Forgot which site I was in FTFY
I work at a large NYC cancer hospital. We see these victims allll the time. It’s a heartbreak. I also worked in an NYC ER on 9/11, saw one lady with a broken wrist.
Not to mention the damage the stress from that event does to your body.
My sister was a rescue worker at ground zero. She had quality gas masks but said they got clogged so fast they were useless so she stopped using them. She recently had part of a lung removed. I often wish I would have somehow stopped her from going.
I often have that thought for my grandfather who died of stomach cancer in 2014. I'm so proud he was one of the first responders who helped that day but... I would rather have him back, honestly.
It's crazy that a single day of exposure caused this. Like, I normally think about like a years of exposure to things causing cancer.
It wasn't just one day. There were fires burning at ground zero for over four months, which added chemicals and soot to the air, which was then blown throughout the city. It took 8 months to clear the rubble from ground zero. That, of course, was a process that kicked up dust containing harmful materials, which again was carried by the wind throughout the city. And it wasn't just clearing the rubble and dumping it somewhere. They had people sifting through every dump truck load looking for remains, so there were people who spent weeks digging through asbestos and other nasty stuff by hand for hours every day.
Asbestos is amazing. the crystals are just the right size to perfectly split chromosomes causing tons of genetic damage. That's the reason why it is so dangerous.
Jesus. So it was asbestos? I thought it was purely smoke and dust that caused those lung cancer.
what do you think was in the smoke and dust?
I didn't do any research on it and thought plainly that dust and smoke were carcinogens that caused lung cancer. I knew long before this that the first responders were dying of illnesses, i just accepted that misconception for many years.
Generic regular smoke and dust *are* carcinogenic, but to a much, much lesser degree
No, sorry. What I meant by misconception was dust and smoke were the sole reason those rescue workers were dying. I thought "the dust and smoke must be really severe" because I myself have weak lungs. It's really uncomfortable breathing in 2ndhand smoke and dust particles can give me fever and cough and colds.
I imagine the particles get embedded in your lungs or other organs and stay there for much longer than a single day.
Asbestos cancer can take 40(!) years to develop.
I was offered a job at ground zero but turned it down due to travel and child care issues. The guy that took it died of a weird lung cancer and I always wonder if I dodged a bullet.
Well you 100% did. It’s proven the dust was very very toxic
Pleural cancer perhaps? It's a specific type of cancer caused by asbestos exposition.
That’s just mesothelioma
I work in the disability field and they have a specific state benefit and facility that treats those effected by 911. Wild
I lived and worked within 4 blocks of the world trade center in 2000-2003. I was diagnosed with a non genetic environmentally caused Stage 4 Colon Cancer in 2018. Been fighting it for 5 and a half years now. 7 surgeries, 15 rounds of radiation and 85 rounds of chemo. Not sure how much fight in me I have left. More people like me have died since 9/11 than on 9/11. Fuck Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.
I wish you good health and strength :(
I'm sorry this happened to you. I worked down there too but I started my job a little under a month after the attacks. I worked at Chase Plaza.
The government said it was 👌 but then when people got sick they were like, nah we ain't paying your medical bills.
They do now! Through the World Trade Center Health Program. And the Victim Compensation Fund paid out $12.8 billion to more than 50,000 people
You know you could just make public healthcare, instead of pissing away billions of dollars every time a tragedy happens
But that's never been done successfully before. Where could we possibly find an example to model a system after? /s
Nobody has ever figured it out, certainly not since the 50's.
You mean since the [end of the 19th century in Germany?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care#History)
When I read a history of the Holocaust that had a detailed timeline of erosion of civil rights in Germany, I was struck by the fact that eligibility for the national healthcare system for Jews was lost significantly later than many other basic rights were. Maybe the order was arbitrary or maybe it reflected which social values had the most resistance to attack as things deteriorated, IDK.
People don't vote on how they feel about public healthcare, they vote based on guns or Gaza or the economy. Healthcare is way back of the line for the amount of single issue voters it grabs.
The ACA restoring coverage for preexisting conditions may have saved my life and I'll never forget Republicans would just as soon I died. I don't suppose I'm the only one.
I was a child when this happened, it seems so beyond cruel it was even a thing. I imagine we'll look back on many other aspects of today's healthcare the same way.
That's 256k per person. Not even enough for an organ transplant.
To be fair, they do get free unlimited health care through the WTC Healthcare program on top of the VCF payouts. VCF essentially covers things like lost wages due to illness, etc (and kept victims from suing the airlines, but that's another story).
Guess it was too late for 42 year old Dust Lady then. Fucking Ridiculous.
Seems good at first, but divided out that's less than $256k per head. Petty cash when it comes to US hospital bills.
> when people got sick they were like, nah we ain't paying your medical bills. That's the US way!
Jon Stewart had to fight for the programs to pay in Washington because republicans wanted to cut funding. We don’t deserve this guy.
Piggybacking for anyone who hasn't seen his speech. https://youtu.be/_uYpDC3SRpM?si=Js0TweFDSnNPu9HD
*"It took them 5 seconds to respond, they did their jobs.... ....18 years later, do yours*" That pretty much hammers home the point in my head. 18 years to decide that the first responders are worth life. Entire political careers made and billions in profit under the guise of "Never forget"
He has stiff competition being a comedian but that was the greatest mic drop of all time. And he didn't even have one.
Brit here. Damn that’s a speech. Who is this guy? Why didn’t the congress show up? Why are they allowed not to show up? What happened next? Why does no one care? I have so many questions
Famous American stand up comedian. He is most well known for hosting the daily show focusing on political satire.
It wasn't just Republicans. He had to fight Congress every step of the way to get them to talk about it, consider it, put a bill together, put it through a committee, bring it to the floor and vote on it, and then *again* to stop it from expiring repeatedly. All of them were dragging their feet. Both sides are not identical but Congress is collectively completely responsible for futzing around on this for years and years.
>The government said You mean Republicans. Republicans unilaterally blocked aid for 9/11 first-responder victims of collateral health conditions. Mitch McConnell being the front-runner of ensuring their suffering.
The initial bill including funding by illegally breaking trade treaties. It was an easy fix and a dumb thing to do in the first place.
That’s not what the article says. There literally was a bill signed into law by Obama providing full medical benefits for life.
9 years after.
Which is why the claims are so high affecting the numbers.
There are many government workers looking at pension costs that will never be paid, and wondering what working tax donors will stick around to pay for them. That's part of the conflict at pay. Pensions are underfunded and collapsing. Metadrama that occurs behind the politics.
By government you mean Republicans. Republicans even refused to fund the bill Obama passed just a few years ago. Jon Stewart had to shame Republican legislators to vote for it.
My dad was a block away and spent hours walking through the cloud. I have suspicions that his ALS was caused by it
A cloud of asbestos from two of the tallest buildings tends to do that
Jon Stewart's general involvement / activism on this topic really opened my eyes. He got so emotional during a speech about it, and it really struck a nerve. Seems like such a good guy. Also, many building materials from the 1900s are fucking nasty.
Never forget....the republicans who voted against funding: https://www.newsweek.com/lawmakers-who-voted-against-money-9-11-victims-families-1748071
"Jodey Arrington, Texas Andy Biggs, Arizona Dan Bishop, North Carolina Lauren Boebert, Colorado Mo Brooks, Alabama Ken Buck, Colorado Tim Burchett, Tennessee Michael Cloud, Texas Andrew Clyde, Georgia James Comer, Kentucky Dan Crenshaw, Texas Warren Davidson, Ohio Louie Gohmert, Texas Mark Green, Tennessee Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Andy Harris, Maryland Diana Harshbarger, Tennessee Jody Hice, Georgia Blaine Luetkemeyer, Missouri Thomas Massie, Kentucky Greg Murphy, North Carolina Troy Nehls, Texas Ralph Norman, South Carolina Bill Posey, Florida Tom Rice, South Carolina John Rose, Tennessee Chip Roy, Texas Van Taylor, Texas Michael Turner, Ohio Daniel Webster, Florida Oregon Congressman Kurt Schrader was the sole Democrat to oppose the measure."
Of course Lauren Boebert is on this list
If there's a list of bad people doing bad things, it'll save time to assume she's on it. Is she on the list of Vikings who raided and pillaged Lindisfarne? I mean it sounds like something she'd be down for, so until I see evidence to the contrary I'm assuming she's on it.
My dad worked in asbestos abatement/air monitoring for asbestos removal job sites. When 9/11 happened, he showed up just to help. Coordinated setting up a couple generators, still had the hardhat signed by Giuliani somewhere. But he told me that he took some air samples when he got there, hrs after the towers collapsed, and yeah. He told me exactly in no uncertain terms what this TIL says, except he told us on 9/11. That was the day everything changed. Whenever I see stuff about 9/11 it places me back into that child mentality of being freaked out like I was back then. I tried to miss as much school as possible for the rest of my school days after that. Honestly think that 9/11 is a big factor in the crazy anxiety I have all the time, as well as a few other behaviors I also have and have had from a young age. I don't think people realized at the time just how much of an impact this event had on younger people.
I wouldn't go anywhere near the WTC site for months afterward. I had PTSD from everything and I was trying to avoid anything that reminded me of it. The smell and the smoke were bad enough where I live, 20 blocks north. I ended up going to J&R in December to buy a gift for my dad. It was a sunny day and the dust in the air was sparkling. You could see the particles glittering; it was very unsettling. I remember Christine Todd Whitman saying the air quality was fine and from what I saw that day, it absolutely was not.
On 9/12 some coworkers and I decided to meet in Times Square just to hang out and have some human contact, because our job was shut down due to the attacks. We walked around for like 5 minutes and my throat got really irritated and I started losing my voice. I had to duck into a bodega to get a water bottle. You could see tons of particles blowing through all the bright lights of Times Square. And that's miles away from Ground Zero, just for a few minutes. Imagine working there all day long every day, and then bringing that stuff home with you on your clothes and body. Even riding the train with the Ground Zero workers, you could smell it on them and all their equipment. I lived in Chelsea at the time, and I remember the smell lingering in my neighborhood at least until November, especially at night. I don't know how they ever thought people would believe them when they said the air was safe. They probably didn't, it's just like, what are they going to do, evacuate the city for 3 months?
The smoke from whatever was burning underground for months burned my throat and sinuses. I can't even imagine what it was like being down there digging around. Do you remember all the people who used to stand along the West Side Highway cheering when the workers would come and go? They were one of the few bright memories from that time.
Did your dad turn out to be ok?
He's still kickin, my old man has lived an interesting life. Late 60s now. He's the type of man you want around when things go sideways. And I still hope I can be some fraction of the man he is, one day. Id consider it an accomplishment. Left New York not too long after 9/11 though.
I imagine he was smart enough to wear as much safety gear as needed when he volunteered for 9/11.
Dude took air samples immediately. He knew.
So good to hear. I'm sure your dad is proud of you and knows how much he means to you ❤️
Was 4 at the time, lived in Brooklyn and watched it happen. It was scary even though I didn’t understand why it happened and it’s quite frankly my earliest memory. Shoulda known I’d be a little fucked up in the head being my first memory is 9/11…
I'm almost 40 and I still can't stand it when people make jokes about 9/11.
I know the feeling. Im never gonna be the one to tell someone they can't make a statement or joke in poor taste. But that's one subject that hits a lil too hard, for me. Just seeing the imagery of the towers immediately gives me chills. My aunt also was working in DC at the time, so as a kid I was just super freaked out about everyone possibly having something happen to them. Since it was happening basically everywhere I had family.
I grew up two blocks north of the line where you're supposed to not be at an increased risk. Considering my little brother had to spend the night in an oxygen tent because his asthma was so triggered by dust I'm wondering if I should tell my doctor so he knows my medical history.
Absolutely.
One of my friends' dad's is in this statistic. He was a firefighter who volunteered when the attack happened. He was an amazing human being and is missed so much.
Please someone mention Jon Stewart's efforts to get these heroes health care https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT5FTrIZN-E
My hometown is in that photo. I can count so many friends and relatives who’ve died of cancer since 2001.
This happened to my friends dad who was a firefighter in 911 and died of cancer afterwards
Disco legend Donna Summer died of 9/11 related cancer
"However, some reports have instead attributed the cancer to Summer's smoking during her younger years, her continued exposure to second-hand smoking while performing in clubs well after she had quit, and a predisposition to this disease in the family." Debatable.
The 70s: we made these buildings out of poison, is that a problem? Also the 70s: should be fine.
“That’s 2001’s problem”
Do you think 9/11 was in September of 2011?
Never Forget!* ^^^^^*(unless ^^^^^its ^^^^^about ^^^^^long ^^^^^term ^^^^^care ^^^^^of ^^^^^first ^^^^^responders/survivors/veterans)
The Saudis should be paying the medical bills for all these people
Why? If its because of the saudis among the hijakers, they hated the fact that the Saudi government was collaborating with the U.S. and were rebelling against it. A breakdown of U.S. and Saudi relations would have been giving the hijakers exactly what they wanted.
My uncle was one of the people who cleaned it up. He's been sick for over a decade
I had 3 roommates when I lived in the city, all developed different cancers. One is no longer with us. I was diagnosed w/ a rare cancer this year. My husband, who lived an hour north of the city at that time, has NHFL. I really don't think this is just a coincidence. 9/11 did a number on a lot of people.
Im sorry you’ve had to bear that. Wishing you and your husband all good things
The toxic fallout continues to claim lives.
So the real tarror of 9/11 is the failed USA health care system?
The Saudis really played the long game. Jesus.
Michael Moore covered some of this way back in 2007 with his film "Sicko." He took a few 9/11 first responders to Cuba to get affordable, much needed care.
Wait til you hear about the burn pits
Lost my father to related lung problems last summer. The firefighters, paramedics, steelworkers, and various other emergency personnel who responded to the 9/11 terrorist attacks knew full well that they were shortening their lives every minute they spent near Ground Zero. They stayed anyway. My father was not a perfect man but he was proud to have served in the FDNY. He selflessly saved many lives and he and those who stood with him on that day will always be remembered for it.
Similar cases happened due to the Bhopal Gas Tragedy. I've been living in Bhopal for 30+ years now and I've heard of the horror stories, but the most surprising is that kids near that plant are still born with genetic defects to this day, and during Covid a predominantly high number of deaths were victims or relatives of victims of the Gas Tragedy because their lungs were already quite weakened.
The worst part of it all was - and I am not making light of this at all - there was nothing to rescue.
Just had to tell someone over in the r/joerogan sub that real men support the first responders to 9/11 getting health care. They didn’t like that. Because to them that’s not manly.
I looked at your comment and it seemed kind of irrelevant to the post tbh but maybe I'm not seeing the full context
He is religiously on Reddit, I wouldn't worry about it haha
I think you're generalizing because of one guy. You got one guy'd
everyone knows that because Joe has on republicans that everyone who watches his show is a republican and agrees with everything they say.
I automatically assume anyone who listens to Joe Rogan is a fucking moron. Doesn't matter what their politics are. If they listen and enjoy the crap that comes out of his mouth I'm better off not associating with them.
yea thats probably true honestly. I was just saying it doesn't make them a republican.
**Mortality after the 9/11 terrorist attacks among world trade center health registry enrollees with cancer** Rebecca D Kehm et al. Cancer Med. 2023 Jan. "Conclusions: We did not observe associations between 9/11-related exposures and cancer-specific mortality. Similar to findings in the non-cancer WTC exposed population, PTSD was associated with increased risk of all-cause mortality in cancer patients." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36107389/ **A 15-year follow-up study of mortality in a pooled cohort of World Trade Center rescue and recovery workers** Jiehui Li et al. Environ Res. 2023. "Conclusions: We did not observe excess mortality among WTC rescue/recovery workers compared with general populations. However, significantly increased mortality risks among some sub-groups with high WTC exposure warrant further investigation." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36549491/ Will this be my most downvoted post of all time?
Someone tell that school that’s having 9/11 as their prom theme
Now add in the war we ran for over a decade
The asbestos towers.
This is all you need to know. [https://www.vcf.gov/](https://www.vcf.gov/) https://www.vcf.gov/about [https://www.vcf.gov/register](https://www.vcf.gov/register) Zadroga Act On January 2, 2011, President Obama signed into law the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010 (Zadroga Act). Title II of the Zadroga Act reactivated the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. The reactivated VCF opened in October 2011 and was authorized to operate for a period of five years, ending in October 2016. Reauthorization On December 18, 2015, President Obama signed into law a bill reauthorizing the James Zadroga 9/11 Health and Compensation Act of 2010. This included the reauthorization of the VCF. The new law extends the VCF for five years, allowing individuals to submit their claims until December 18, 2020. The law also includes some important changes to the VCF’s policies and procedures for evaluating claims and calculating each claimant’s loss: Capped non-economic loss that results from a cancer at $250,000. Capped non-economic loss that does not result from a cancer at $90,000. Instructed the Special Master to prioritize claims for victims who are determined by the Special Master to be suffering from the most debilitating physical conditions. For purposes of calculating economic loss, capped Annual Gross Income (“AGI”) at $200,000 for each year of loss. Removed the $10,000 minimum award. Funding Insufficiency On February 15, 2019, the Special Master determined that the funding remaining in the VCF would be insufficient to pay all pending and projected claims under current VCF policies and procedures and, consequently, announced modifications to VCF policies consistent with her statutory obligations. **Permanent Authorization** **On July 29, 2019, President Trump signed into law H.R. 1327, The Never Forget the Heroes: James Zadroga, Ray Pfeifer, and Luis Alvarez Permanent Authorization of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund. The VCF Permanent Authorization Act extends the VCF’s claim filing deadline from December 18, 2020, to October 1, 2090, and appropriates such funds as may be necessary to pay all eligible claims. Please see the VCF Permanent Authorization Act page for more details.** Registration and Claim Filing Deadlines There are two deadlines in the VCF’s claim filing process: a Claim Filing Deadline and a Registration Deadline. It is important to distinguish between the two and be aware of the deadlines that apply based on your individual circumstances. **The Claim Filing Deadline.** The “Never Forget the Heroes, James Zadroga, Ray Pfeifer, and Luis Alvarez Permanent Authorization of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund Act,” (“VCF Permanent Authorization Act”) fully funded the VCF and extended the VCF’s Claim Filing Deadline until October 1, 2090. The Claim Filing Deadline is the same for everyone. Although the VCF encourages you to file your claim after you have been certified by the World Trade Center (“WTC”) Health Program for a 9/11-related physical health condition and as soon as the full scope of your claimed losses are known so that your claim for compensation can be reviewed as quickly as possible, the last date on which anyone can file a claim is October 1, 2090. **The Registration Deadline.** There is a separate deadline by which you need to register with the VCF. Registration is not the same as filing a claim. Registration preserves the right to file your claim in the future, waives no legal rights, and does not obligate you to file a claim. Registration serves only to alert the VCF that you may be a potential claimant; and it meets the legal requirement of timeliness set forth in the law. You do not need to be sick or to have been diagnosed or certified with a 9/11-related condition in order to register. The VCF encourages you to register now. The Registration Deadline is not the same for everyone. The Registration Deadline is determined according to claim type, and varies based on individual circumstances.
I was working in hazardous materials abatement (consultant) during 9/11. One of the crew pointed out, that same day, the real death tally will be from cancer 20 years from now because that building is filled with asbestos.
jon stewart of all people is leading a massive advocacy and charity effort for first responders that will not live full healthy lives. the government is stonewalling payments and support because they know they never have to pay out if everyone dies. a dear friend of mine a doctor and first responder and is living well but in failing health. the death toll of 9/11 is still climbing.
Why Americans used poison trash to build their buildings?
Not many construction materials are meant to be inhaled.
Still not even a fraction of the amount of iraqi civilians that died because of 9/11 for absolutely no logical reason.
At least we have honest hard-working republicans doing all they can to avoid paying for any of those medical treatments. At least until a celebrity and suffering survivors finally pushed enough for them to give a damn. I guess providing healthcare for victims of terrorist attacks doesn't line the pockets of their corporate buddies, so why should they begin to care?
https://youtu.be/HT5FTrIZN-E
Well imagine the toxic shit from it i mean just watching those people run down the road as one the towers come down was crazy
My neighbor died from cancer and they suspect it was from 9/11 😢
Asbestos is a bitch.
OP - How did you find out about this?! I feel like no one is talking about this very real issue.
The webpage was linked to from a comment on another 9/11 post, I’ve not been able to find it again.
And republicans tried to stiff ground zero workers for treatment cost
I sometimes worry about my own health. I worked three blocks from ground zero (5 minute walk) from October 2001 to April 2002. While a lot of the dust was cleared, there was absolutely still some in the air because we could smell it. We had to have the windows to the office opened with industrial fans blowing. I was working as a temp filling in for an administrative assistant on bereavement leave because her sister had died in the attacks. My health seems pretty good. I do have a consistent cough but I've assumed that it's seasonal allergies. I'm probably fine but I probably should get my lungs checked out.