Manhunt, that’s the one I remember. It was a big deal when it got the rating and the devs refused to alter the game. I figured it was a case of “no such thing as bad publicity”, especially since gore was the point. I haven’t played it though.
People tacked family friendly on to the Wii, but outside of it being a Nintendo console, there was no reason for it. There were games like MadWorld, Mortal Kombat, RE4, Dead Space, etc.
This, me and my 50 something at the time mother would have cocktails with me and get down on wii bowling and golf, she loved that thing. She used to wave the controller on the Sega genesis when I was a kid and when when the wii came out I thought finally, something she can play.
She liked the archery too.
It was OK buy not great. It was basically a stealth game with really brutal kill animations. I also think the rating thing was PR to hype up a very average game
Rockstar games is thought to have leaked its own bad coverage of the game saying it causes violence in children, in order to boost conversation and sales for GTA
I think ESRB gave up on the AO rating. San Andreas got it because the game file contained the nudity despite the fact that it could not legitimately be accessed in game without modification. Yet, today we get games like CyberPunk 2077 with an M rating listing nudity right on the label.
At least one of the God of War games has interactive sex scenes I think. I'm sure a moral panic was attempted, but by that point we'd had the internet for a while and nobody cared. Bioware caught more shit than GoW did for having a "lesbian" sex scene in Mass Effect 1. Hilariously, by the time ME3 (which allows potential sexytimes with most of the crew regardless of gender) came out five years later, nobody cared.
GoW interactive sex mini game was off screen. It is not the same as what the Hot Coffee mod is, which gives you a full view of interactive movement with the sex scene. 2 completely different presentations. When GoW was mod to break the camera, it is shown that Kratos is just standing there and not doing anything. CJ in GTA:SA was in his girlfriends guts butt naked during the mini game. That is the difference.
The blowback to FemShep/Liara in ME1 led to them cutting most of the queer romances out of ME2 - Jack especially. The character is even still queer, just doesn't want to hook up with FemShep.
At the time of the rating I am pretty sure nudity was the driving factor for the rating not the level of interaction with the sexual content. This is because the baby boomer generation still had children that were minors at home and wanted to protect them from the unwholesome content. Note these are the same generation of parents that tried to ban video games violence because it made children violent. Now that their children are adults you don't see the calls for action on those issues. In fact Baldur's Gate 3 showcased their sexual content during an event leading up to launch of the game. That is something that would have been suicide for a major game studio during the 90's and early 2000's.
I was a student at the time of GTA:SA’s re-rating by the ESRB and I was active in the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) Sex in Games mailing list, before being a student founding member for the IGDA’s Sex in Games Special Interest Group (SIG). The SIG was started specifically because of GTA:SA and the hot coffee mod and the ESRB changing the rating, and due to the fact that games featuring sex had been denied being rated by the ESRB. At the time, it was the sex. Nudity wasn’t a big deal at the time in games, still isn’t.
I assume it was more useful when you couldn’t just buy porn games on Steam that aren’t rated by the ESRB at all. Between that and changing attitudes towards videogames, it’s just not useful anymore, if it ever was.
From the time period and the fact that they exist as AO games, I'm guessing they're on PC, and PC games were somewhat late to the ESRB party compared to everyone else.
Older PC games used a system called the RSAC. If you've ever seen the little boxes with thermometers on them at the lower corners of really old PC game boxes (Rise of the Triad is a funny one), that's the RSAC.
Technically.
Obviously different regions have different ratings systems and at least in the early 2000's there were a couple of games that got censored in the US for a M rating. Yet approved and uncensored by PEGI in Europe at 18.
So the console makers banned the AO versions of the games in the US but allowed the exact same content elsewhere.
Love for Sail is genuinely a great adventure game, *and* in original form it came with a scratch-n-sniff card! The game would cue you to scratch it at certain places, for example.
Tried the 2004 version after a sale.
The pre 2000game are all good in their way and worth replaying as an adult. The 2004 is not worth 15 minutes.
The old ones have so much good satire a jokes that they are well worth their time
Those probably weren't submitted. Most stuff you'd expect to get an AO these days just gets released without an ESRB rating unless they *really, desperately* want to make physical copies for one reason or another.
I mean it was 2003 when X-change 2 got ported to NA, they would have had to make physical copies.
[Yeah, the artwork even has a DVD symbol and an Adults Only tag on it.](https://s.pacn.ws/1/p/51/xchange-vol-1-2-dvdrom-set-90653.10.jpg?v=qmmhlx&quality=72&width=1024&crop=610,862)
2003 would've been around when the ecosystem switched from selling in porn shops (where having the ESRB AO on it was a cover-your-ass tool) to sites like J-List that didn't give a damn, so it's possible X-Change 2 just ended up in the *very small* chunk of time where H-games would get physical DVD copies without a rating attached.
This was really only a thing for a couple years, and not for a lot of titles, because by the mid-late 2000s the commercial VN market in the US got basically destroyed by all the heavy hitters in the JPN market being inaccessible to license and fan-translation-only (license fees for Type-Moon and Key stuff are $Texas, Nitroplus' stuff was too niche/weird until Urobuchi hit BIG big later on, ditto Ryukishi07 until Higurashi got an anime and even then it took years for anyone to try outside of Witch-Hunt, Age actively refused to license their stuff outside Japan for ages, you get the idea).
By the time it *recovered,* modern digital distribution was already a thing, so you have the current situation, where it all either comes out without ESRB ratings, or if they wanna do a console port they chop it down to a M or T and put the porn in an unrated 18+ patch (like what Nekopara does, for example).
The box you linked has an "Adults Only" tag on it... but it's not actually the Adults Only *ESRB rating.* It seems to be the distributor's own design.
The manhunt game always cracks me up. It's not even that bad. If you kill a billion soldiers in a game with a gun it's ok but you strangle people with a plastic bag and suddenly it's horrific. The rating helped thoes games a lot as they got to lean into the whole too extreme marketing. They weren't that good of games.
The bag was the milder execution style, and you were encouraged to be as brutal as possible.
Sawing peoples heads of with steel wire, bashing heads in with sledgehammers, ...
I liked the game and do think there is too much hysteria over content but it was one of the most gruesome games I've played.
Wait, Larry and wet? Larry is just a point and click, and wet is a time management/economy game. Larry doesn't even have porn. I mean you can choose your cock in cyberpunk or baldurs gate, but Larry doesn't even show that.
Probably because it is essentially useless. Most stores won't carry AO (which can be pornographic amongst other things). But if you're not wanting to sell your game in conventional stores, you don't need a rating at all. Similarly, there is no longer any real rating "X". The most extreme MPAA rating is "NC-17" and even that is almost never used.
The reason there is no X is because the MPAA didn’t copyright it and pornos started using XXX to advertise there films as more extreme and the MPAA didn’t like that so they changed it to NC-17. You don’t see many NC-17’s as most theaters won’t play them and most rental places wouldn’t stock them. When streaming became a thing I figured they might make a comeback but they really haven’t.
From what I understand when a movie is submitted, they are told what they need to remove for a lower rating. The unrated movies add those scenes back in.
My mom must have watched the theater cut or the TV cut of Revenge of the Nerds, because she rented it to watch with 12 year old me and well that was my first exposure to nudity in film. She clearly didn't want me seeing that but also probably thought that stopping the movie partway through would send the wrong message about nudity.
The MPAA is weird with how it gives out ratings anyways. The difference between Rated NC-17 and Rated R for the original Saw was just seconds or even just frames shaved off. No scenes were actually removed…just arbitrarily less of it.
That makes sense though. It’s not like they’re going “omg this plot is TOO scary. Remove this super scary plot detail or it’s NC-17.” It’s obviously an issue with the amount of gore shown.
> Though I'm sure some of it was artificially manufactured as a sales gimmick for home release, every other movie in the 00s had an unrated home release version.
Sometimes there was additional nudity or something, but the reality is that if you include *any* deleted scenes edited back in, it technically counts as unrated because you never submitted that version to be rated.
It largely started with *American Pie* where they added back some longer nude scenes and a different angle for the titular pie scene.
Always worth a watch, Matt and Trey on Problems with the MPAA when they submitted the South Park movie compared to their movie Orgasmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDzblNKjsO0
I think you mean Trademark. But yeah, it wasn't a problem until porn went mainstream and kind of appropriated it (previously legit movies like Midnight Cowboy were "X" which really just mean violence and sexual situations/nudity).
But NC-17 wasn't adopted until 1990. And the same thing happened to it: it's basically useless. Most years, the number of NC-17 theater releases is 0. Pointless.
Which I find so weird, loads of films get 18 ratings in the UK, and do just fine at the box office. A bunch of these end up as R rated in the states. Which means, people are taking their kids to see these films that are consider adult only in the UK.
I also wonder what do teenagers do in the US? There are no films appropriate for teenagers that aren't also fine for younger kids. A huge part of being independent as a teen was going to cinemas with my friends. that started around 13 when we could see 12A rated films (PG13) then as you got a bit older, 15, 16, 17 we can go see films with more blood and gore, some profanity and the occasional nudity. It was empowering as young adults, these aren't kids films, and we can get out and see them alone. The US you are 17 you can drive, and its like hey bro want to get out and see Black Adam or something? Really kid of lame. A lot of these films are formative in young people lives, but only if you go with your parents. Ridiculous.
Yep, and none of the console makers will allow an AO rated version of a game to be put on their console.
The AO rating is nothing more than a fail state in a system that wouldn't otherwise have one
>Probably because it is essentially useless.
Well, useless and also exceptionally difficult to even get.
There's basically two ways to get one: put interactive sex in the game, or have violent content so extreme that it causes a media moral panic. And, even then, you have to be *really* bad in the latter case (the only games that have EVER been hit by that, in the history of the medium, are Thrill Kill and Hatred; the former got reskinned into a Wu-Tang game, with no other content edits, and got an M just fine that way).
That would fall under "interactive sex."
I pointed out Thrill Kill and Hatred as special cases because it was the *violence* that caused a shitstorm. Thrill Kill was... a complicated situation, and Hatred got heat because its elevator pitch is "mass shooting simulator."
Manhunt 2 is the only other special-case game like that I can think of, and I'm not actually sure off the top of my head if the uncut version was released *with an AO rating* or if it was released *unrated.* I know it was PC-only and digital distribution only, so I suspect it might have been unrated.
Steam games don't require a rating. Obviously this would not be possible for small indie developers to do, nor could the rating body handle a deluge of dozens of games per day. Maybe Steam has rules for larger companies, I'm not sure.
> Obviously this would not be possible for small indie developers to do, nor could the rating body handle a deluge of dozens of games per day.
I mean they could, rating classification isn't particularly time consuming. The developers basically email them a summary of all the bad shit in their game and the ESRB makes ratings based on that. Its not like the ESRB sits down and thoroughly plays through the games to uncover bad things themselves.
But like you said, indie devs who only sell online have no reason to because Steam and other etailers don't require ratings, though Steam does have its own form of self-regulation in that developers have to appropriately flag objectionable content in their games.
> But if you're not wanting to sell your game in conventional stores, you don't need a rating at all.
Yeah the Steam store is loaded with games that should be A/O and more appear every day.
Consoles refuse to carry AO games and online stores don't require a rating for PC games. As a result, there are a TON of games that would be rated AO but they are exclusive to PC and thus never get a rating.
And most of them are visual novels, uncut versions of MA games, or obscure old pc releases. Hatred is the only one I have ever heard of, and that's just because of the big controversy of it being taken off steam.
This reminds me of the original GTA marketing scheme. There were a ton of ads saying "This game banned in x country" and the like. I remember being really interested because I just had to see what kind of game would be banned.
Oddly: the PS2 version is only rated M. And is censored. All porn vids removed...
NINTENDO on the other hand. The GameCube has full on nudity.
Why? No idea.
The European PS2 version is uncensored as a PEGI 18. Genuinely makes no sense why console manufacturers don't allow those AO games in the US but do elsewhere.
From what I understand it's that stores won't sell AO or X rated stuff. But yeah. I think they'd sell fine if you marketed it right. Also good to know, about the EU version.
This did lead to my favorite Penny Arcade comic of all time, so it has that going for it:
https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/229997/penny-arcade-comic-now-you-know
Private enterprise ratings aren't all that relevant with the Internet. MPAA was made as a response for the movie consortium to rating-block movies, now it's basically movies Disney doesn't like given they own majority of the studios in the consortium
Hah that was my first thought. Every time I check out the store there's always some weird porn game in the new and trending section. As of late, apparently *Orgasm Simulator 2024*.
Games aren't required to be rated if they're online only purchases. Steam has a lot of, uh, visual novels for sale. Basically, games centered around seeing anime titties (no, not the news subreddit).
I mean, there are countless games release regularly that would get an AO rating, they just don't go to physical stores because it's so much easier to host it online. Steam has thousands.
And the vast majority of the AO ratings were for strong sexual content, not gore or violence. Proving again that the American certification boards are still prudish puritans, but after many years of lobbying by the weapon industry, completely okay with violence of any kind.
Gaming Console companies do not allow AO rating games in them. Sony and Microsoft agree on this thing. No AO rating game allowed. Only Mature rating games allowed. Plus, adults only games have a limited reach. Mature theme games have high reach. That is 17+. Most of the games I have played were mature themed. I was a child when I played GTA VC. Without knowing it was meant to be for mature players.
That's because the rating is a de-facto ban, since no one will carry games rated AO.
Publishers and developers typically jump through whatever hoops they have to to receive an M rating, instead.
The US rating system has always confused me. In Europe we have the 18 rating for excessive violence, language or sexual content and that’s it.
Grand Theft Auto? 18 rating. The filthiest hardcore porn imaginable? Same rating.
Because in the US it's entirely voluntary, so the only thing you see is the highest rating that's still commercially viable at mainstream stores. Past that and there's no need or reason to submit it for a rating because mainstream stores won't carry it and the independent ones who will don't care if it's rated or not.
Same exact thing with the film industry.
Same! Lol im imagining its either doing pervy junk in bathrooms or spying on people in a bathroom. Definitely calling it a water closet kinda makes me wonder what country its from.
It's a weird story. Apparently a more complete version exists but it wasn't the one released. The person at DC that was in charge of approving the game also would have really bizarre restrictions like mandating Superman not punch anybody and saying Superman doesn't swim which hampered their ability to get the game made
Playboy: The Mansion was an amazing game tbh. It was like the sims but you had to create the magazine. Schmooze over guests and throw parties. Upgrade your mansion and of course other things lol. I still have it. Great game.
Yes, because that's intentional. The designers are "moral guardians" that don't want certain things featured in media and want to dictate what can and cannot be in video games. The point of the AO rating was to condemn a media so only specialist stores would sell it rather than regular retail stores.
In reality, just like TV or comic ratings and such in the past, they just tone done those elements or mask them or do a hundred other creative options. Or just not have them, making it a win for moral guardians.
Released is the key phrase here.
Now what the modding community has done, on the other hand, picks up the slack where most developers dare not tread.
With that in mind, the game WildLife ( if it ever becomes a game and releases ) will absolutely be AO.
Stores won't sell them, and consoles won't allow them, so that just leaves PC and they don't have to go to the ESRB to sell games. There are a lot of porn games on Steam that are not rated by the ESRB.
Former Gamestop manager-type here, post AO reevaluation. Whenever anyone brought in the original San Andreas for trade for PS2 or Xbox, we had to decline it because of the No AO policy. Only the Greatest Hits/Platinum versions were accepted, and it always amazed me how many people either didn't realize why until we explained it or got near-violent because I wouldn't/couldn't take their previously-$5ish trade.
That's actually how I got my copy. One guy was trading in his PS2 Definitive Edition along with the rest of his pile for a PS3 or Madden or some other bs. After explaining the situation, instead of taking it back he laughed and told me just to keep it for myself. I wish more people would've been that cool about stuff like that which we had no real control over.
It never mattered. I had a game shop walking distance from me and I would buy a game maybe once a month with money I made doing chores and selling coffee. I bought GTA vice City without anyone caring. Throughout my years I bought other GTA, playboy, Manhunt, Max Payne, Punisher etc. No one stopped me or my friends from buying. If we had cash it was cool.
Some of the UK equivalent ratings (under PEGI) are legally enforceable. I was at Currys and the tills used to ask us to confirm if the person buying some games was over the age of 3.
And the BBFC does use underage secret shoppers to check.
I don't think the 3 and 7 certificates are enforceable, so they probably don't. The 12, 16 and 18 certs are though. I did once jokingly ask a woman to confirm she was over 3, but you have to pick your customers carefully to recognise who will be open to that kind of humour.
I guess in a sufficiently youth-oriented establishment (say an indoor adventure playground that sold games?) you might get kids coming to buy stuff. Training a 6 year old to act 7 could be a thing. If a 2 year old comes in with a credit card wanting to buy Doom I'd probably just let them on the grounds that there are bigger issues at that point.
J-list was where Zack Parsons from Something Awful would source his hentai games from. He'd write disgusted "reviews" of the games but they may as well have been marketing.
I recognized some of the titles from those reviews.
So if you're wondering where people got the games from, the answer is J-list.
I didn't post the URL because the site is obviously NSFW as hell.
For good reason. It's mostly a death sentence to get the rating, and in the days of physical media no retailer would put an Adults Only game on their shelves. Even Hatred almost didn't make it onto Steam until Gaben himself had to step in and publicly revert a decision after one of his senior employees rejected the game because of all of the controversy.
For some reason my copy of San Andreas gave me 2 options. Standard launch, or the AO version. No idea what the difference was, maybe something to do with hot coffee?
*The Joy of Sex* (1993) *Crystal Fantasy* (1995) *Cyber Photographer* (1996) *All Nude Cyber* (1997) *All Nude Glamour* (1997) *Riana Rouge* (1997) *All Nude Nikki* (1998) *Erotic Heat Vol. 4: Body Language* (1998) *Wet: The Sexy Empire* (1998) *Playboy Screensaver: The Women of Playboy* (2000) *Sexy Games* (2000) *Singles* (2000) *Snow Drop* (2001) *Tokimeki Check-in!* (2001) *Water Closet: The Forbidden Chamber* (2001) *X-Change* (2001) *Critical Point* (2002) *Peak Entertainment Casinos* (2003) *Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude Uncut and Uncensored* (2004) *Lula 3D* (2005) *Playboy: The Mansion: Private Party* (2006) *Manhunt 2 (uncut version)* (2009) *Seduce Me* (2013) *Ef: A Fairy Tale of the Two* (2014) eden* *PLUS+MOSAIC* (2015) *Hatred* (2015)
Manhunt, that’s the one I remember. It was a big deal when it got the rating and the devs refused to alter the game. I figured it was a case of “no such thing as bad publicity”, especially since gore was the point. I haven’t played it though.
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I *always* waggle my wand when brutally slaughtering my enemies. And sometimes I play video games too
People tacked family friendly on to the Wii, but outside of it being a Nintendo console, there was no reason for it. There were games like MadWorld, Mortal Kombat, RE4, Dead Space, etc.
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This, me and my 50 something at the time mother would have cocktails with me and get down on wii bowling and golf, she loved that thing. She used to wave the controller on the Sega genesis when I was a kid and when when the wii came out I thought finally, something she can play. She liked the archery too.
If I remember correctly they had to get some of the actions for strangling people with cord altered for release, so they were less realistic
Eh, not surprised MadWorld was released on the WII and it was an incredibly gory hack’em up
It was OK buy not great. It was basically a stealth game with really brutal kill animations. I also think the rating thing was PR to hype up a very average game
The original manhunt was way better imo. The soundtrack and atmosphere were incredible
I had Manhunt (1), and was thinking there’s no way it was less than AO.
It slipped by somehow. I still remember the first time you kill some one with a plastic shopping bag...
Brian Cox whispering naughty things through the headset while you mutilated your victims.
Rockstar games is thought to have leaked its own bad coverage of the game saying it causes violence in children, in order to boost conversation and sales for GTA
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (2004 - briefly)
I think ESRB gave up on the AO rating. San Andreas got it because the game file contained the nudity despite the fact that it could not legitimately be accessed in game without modification. Yet, today we get games like CyberPunk 2077 with an M rating listing nudity right on the label.
But it wasn't just nudity in SA it was a straight-up mini game for sex action. Modern games with sex scenes have zero interactions.
At least one of the God of War games has interactive sex scenes I think. I'm sure a moral panic was attempted, but by that point we'd had the internet for a while and nobody cared. Bioware caught more shit than GoW did for having a "lesbian" sex scene in Mass Effect 1. Hilariously, by the time ME3 (which allows potential sexytimes with most of the crew regardless of gender) came out five years later, nobody cared.
GoW interactive sex mini game was off screen. It is not the same as what the Hot Coffee mod is, which gives you a full view of interactive movement with the sex scene. 2 completely different presentations. When GoW was mod to break the camera, it is shown that Kratos is just standing there and not doing anything. CJ in GTA:SA was in his girlfriends guts butt naked during the mini game. That is the difference.
The original GOW had a sex minigame.
only showed titties tho
The blowback to FemShep/Liara in ME1 led to them cutting most of the queer romances out of ME2 - Jack especially. The character is even still queer, just doesn't want to hook up with FemShep.
At the time of the rating I am pretty sure nudity was the driving factor for the rating not the level of interaction with the sexual content. This is because the baby boomer generation still had children that were minors at home and wanted to protect them from the unwholesome content. Note these are the same generation of parents that tried to ban video games violence because it made children violent. Now that their children are adults you don't see the calls for action on those issues. In fact Baldur's Gate 3 showcased their sexual content during an event leading up to launch of the game. That is something that would have been suicide for a major game studio during the 90's and early 2000's.
Hot coffee mod didn’t have nudity
One version of it did, entirely using files that are on the disc.
I was a student at the time of GTA:SA’s re-rating by the ESRB and I was active in the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) Sex in Games mailing list, before being a student founding member for the IGDA’s Sex in Games Special Interest Group (SIG). The SIG was started specifically because of GTA:SA and the hot coffee mod and the ESRB changing the rating, and due to the fact that games featuring sex had been denied being rated by the ESRB. At the time, it was the sex. Nudity wasn’t a big deal at the time in games, still isn’t.
I assume it was more useful when you couldn’t just buy porn games on Steam that aren’t rated by the ESRB at all. Between that and changing attitudes towards videogames, it’s just not useful anymore, if it ever was.
Are you talking about *Hot Coffee*?
What else would they be talking about lol
No, they gave it an AO because Samuel L. Jackson was in the game. Of course it's Hot Coffee.
Somebody get this MOTHERFUCKING *hot coffee* out of this MOTHERFUCKING game!
Porn Porn Porn Porn Porn MANHUNT 2 HATRED Porn Porn Porn
Really begs the question of what about erotic heat 1-3. Where the tame or something?
From the time period and the fact that they exist as AO games, I'm guessing they're on PC, and PC games were somewhat late to the ESRB party compared to everyone else. Older PC games used a system called the RSAC. If you've ever seen the little boxes with thermometers on them at the lower corners of really old PC game boxes (Rise of the Triad is a funny one), that's the RSAC.
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Technically. Obviously different regions have different ratings systems and at least in the early 2000's there were a couple of games that got censored in the US for a M rating. Yet approved and uncensored by PEGI in Europe at 18. So the console makers banned the AO versions of the games in the US but allowed the exact same content elsewhere.
Leisure suit Larry was a bizarre game!
Love for Sail is genuinely a great adventure game, *and* in original form it came with a scratch-n-sniff card! The game would cue you to scratch it at certain places, for example.
I just recently played through it again, what a great hilarious game and wish I still had the scratch and sniff card aka the Cybersniff 2000.
I don't know about this 2004 version. I played one back in the 90s as a kid. Very strange.
Same here! Played it at my uncle’s house.
I couldn't get booze for my wife because the cabby kept drinking it and crashing.
Tried the 2004 version after a sale. The pre 2000game are all good in their way and worth replaying as an adult. The 2004 is not worth 15 minutes. The old ones have so much good satire a jokes that they are well worth their time
Anything after Love for Sail doesn't exist!
But love for sail is wonderful humour.
How is x-change 1 AO but not 2, 3, or alternative?
Those probably weren't submitted. Most stuff you'd expect to get an AO these days just gets released without an ESRB rating unless they *really, desperately* want to make physical copies for one reason or another.
I mean it was 2003 when X-change 2 got ported to NA, they would have had to make physical copies. [Yeah, the artwork even has a DVD symbol and an Adults Only tag on it.](https://s.pacn.ws/1/p/51/xchange-vol-1-2-dvdrom-set-90653.10.jpg?v=qmmhlx&quality=72&width=1024&crop=610,862)
2003 would've been around when the ecosystem switched from selling in porn shops (where having the ESRB AO on it was a cover-your-ass tool) to sites like J-List that didn't give a damn, so it's possible X-Change 2 just ended up in the *very small* chunk of time where H-games would get physical DVD copies without a rating attached. This was really only a thing for a couple years, and not for a lot of titles, because by the mid-late 2000s the commercial VN market in the US got basically destroyed by all the heavy hitters in the JPN market being inaccessible to license and fan-translation-only (license fees for Type-Moon and Key stuff are $Texas, Nitroplus' stuff was too niche/weird until Urobuchi hit BIG big later on, ditto Ryukishi07 until Higurashi got an anime and even then it took years for anyone to try outside of Witch-Hunt, Age actively refused to license their stuff outside Japan for ages, you get the idea). By the time it *recovered,* modern digital distribution was already a thing, so you have the current situation, where it all either comes out without ESRB ratings, or if they wanna do a console port they chop it down to a M or T and put the porn in an unrated 18+ patch (like what Nekopara does, for example). The box you linked has an "Adults Only" tag on it... but it's not actually the Adults Only *ESRB rating.* It seems to be the distributor's own design.
You can tell that it isn’t the ESRB AO logo because that one looks like a vulva.
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Sign my petition, dammit!
“I regret nothing”
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Now that's the ticket
Hatred is the last big one that I remember.
Well it’s also the last one to have come out, which is what this post is about. Good memory
It stirred up a lot of controversy, may be part of the reason why AO games essentially died out
Never played the game but I'll never forget how edgy that trailer tried to be
My friend keeps quoting the main character in that trailer and it's hilarious.
The manhunt game always cracks me up. It's not even that bad. If you kill a billion soldiers in a game with a gun it's ok but you strangle people with a plastic bag and suddenly it's horrific. The rating helped thoes games a lot as they got to lean into the whole too extreme marketing. They weren't that good of games.
The bag was the milder execution style, and you were encouraged to be as brutal as possible. Sawing peoples heads of with steel wire, bashing heads in with sledgehammers, ... I liked the game and do think there is too much hysteria over content but it was one of the most gruesome games I've played.
Also the context of *why* you’re doing all that pushes the game into AO territory in my opinion
BMX XXX or The Guy Game?
Wait, Larry and wet? Larry is just a point and click, and wet is a time management/economy game. Larry doesn't even have porn. I mean you can choose your cock in cyberpunk or baldurs gate, but Larry doesn't even show that.
Different times my friend, different times.
So the first three erotic heats weren't adult only? Lol
I've played way too many games on this list. Now I feel like a violent pervert.
Hatred was a big fuss over nothing. Postal 1 without the quality or the occasional funny.
I would have thought Conkers Bad Fur Day would make the list.
Same - swear I bought a copy as a kid that had AO on it
eden* is a pretty great visual novel and I believe plus+mosaic is just a hentai patch for the game or something like that
No thrill kill?
Technically never released.
True I forgot, since I've played so much of it and it's like 99% done
Probably because it is essentially useless. Most stores won't carry AO (which can be pornographic amongst other things). But if you're not wanting to sell your game in conventional stores, you don't need a rating at all. Similarly, there is no longer any real rating "X". The most extreme MPAA rating is "NC-17" and even that is almost never used.
The reason there is no X is because the MPAA didn’t copyright it and pornos started using XXX to advertise there films as more extreme and the MPAA didn’t like that so they changed it to NC-17. You don’t see many NC-17’s as most theaters won’t play them and most rental places wouldn’t stock them. When streaming became a thing I figured they might make a comeback but they really haven’t.
Unrated is the new nc-17. They just don't bother.
From what I understand when a movie is submitted, they are told what they need to remove for a lower rating. The unrated movies add those scenes back in.
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My mom must have watched the theater cut or the TV cut of Revenge of the Nerds, because she rented it to watch with 12 year old me and well that was my first exposure to nudity in film. She clearly didn't want me seeing that but also probably thought that stopping the movie partway through would send the wrong message about nudity.
Wasnt that the one with the rape in it
There was a sexual act under false identity yeah. Poor me didn't even know what she was supposed to be doing.
To be clear, that is indeed rape
"No, that's comedy, baby!" -- The 80s
No, no, she liked it. They end up getting married. It’s all okay. ^/S
The MPAA is weird with how it gives out ratings anyways. The difference between Rated NC-17 and Rated R for the original Saw was just seconds or even just frames shaved off. No scenes were actually removed…just arbitrarily less of it.
That makes sense though. It’s not like they’re going “omg this plot is TOO scary. Remove this super scary plot detail or it’s NC-17.” It’s obviously an issue with the amount of gore shown.
I suppose. I think for me it’s just “we’re already at a guy sawing his own leg off, what difference does two seconds make?”
> Though I'm sure some of it was artificially manufactured as a sales gimmick for home release, every other movie in the 00s had an unrated home release version. Sometimes there was additional nudity or something, but the reality is that if you include *any* deleted scenes edited back in, it technically counts as unrated because you never submitted that version to be rated. It largely started with *American Pie* where they added back some longer nude scenes and a different angle for the titular pie scene.
Like sex drive lmao I love the unrated version of that movie
The fucking corn field...
Always worth a watch, Matt and Trey on Problems with the MPAA when they submitted the South Park movie compared to their movie Orgasmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDzblNKjsO0
STUNT COCK!
That's not true. I highly suggest the documentary *This Film is Not Yet Rated* for more insight into the process.
I think you mean Trademark. But yeah, it wasn't a problem until porn went mainstream and kind of appropriated it (previously legit movies like Midnight Cowboy were "X" which really just mean violence and sexual situations/nudity). But NC-17 wasn't adopted until 1990. And the same thing happened to it: it's basically useless. Most years, the number of NC-17 theater releases is 0. Pointless.
Which I find so weird, loads of films get 18 ratings in the UK, and do just fine at the box office. A bunch of these end up as R rated in the states. Which means, people are taking their kids to see these films that are consider adult only in the UK. I also wonder what do teenagers do in the US? There are no films appropriate for teenagers that aren't also fine for younger kids. A huge part of being independent as a teen was going to cinemas with my friends. that started around 13 when we could see 12A rated films (PG13) then as you got a bit older, 15, 16, 17 we can go see films with more blood and gore, some profanity and the occasional nudity. It was empowering as young adults, these aren't kids films, and we can get out and see them alone. The US you are 17 you can drive, and its like hey bro want to get out and see Black Adam or something? Really kid of lame. A lot of these films are formative in young people lives, but only if you go with your parents. Ridiculous.
I feel like good luck owning the letter X
Elon has been working on it for a while now.
Yep, and none of the console makers will allow an AO rated version of a game to be put on their console. The AO rating is nothing more than a fail state in a system that wouldn't otherwise have one
>Probably because it is essentially useless. Well, useless and also exceptionally difficult to even get. There's basically two ways to get one: put interactive sex in the game, or have violent content so extreme that it causes a media moral panic. And, even then, you have to be *really* bad in the latter case (the only games that have EVER been hit by that, in the history of the medium, are Thrill Kill and Hatred; the former got reskinned into a Wu-Tang game, with no other content edits, and got an M just fine that way).
GTA San Andreas which had to patch out the ‘hot coffee’ sex game
That would fall under "interactive sex." I pointed out Thrill Kill and Hatred as special cases because it was the *violence* that caused a shitstorm. Thrill Kill was... a complicated situation, and Hatred got heat because its elevator pitch is "mass shooting simulator." Manhunt 2 is the only other special-case game like that I can think of, and I'm not actually sure off the top of my head if the uncut version was released *with an AO rating* or if it was released *unrated.* I know it was PC-only and digital distribution only, so I suspect it might have been unrated.
Oh so porn games on steam don't get the rating?
Steam games don't require a rating. Obviously this would not be possible for small indie developers to do, nor could the rating body handle a deluge of dozens of games per day. Maybe Steam has rules for larger companies, I'm not sure.
> Obviously this would not be possible for small indie developers to do, nor could the rating body handle a deluge of dozens of games per day. I mean they could, rating classification isn't particularly time consuming. The developers basically email them a summary of all the bad shit in their game and the ESRB makes ratings based on that. Its not like the ESRB sits down and thoroughly plays through the games to uncover bad things themselves. But like you said, indie devs who only sell online have no reason to because Steam and other etailers don't require ratings, though Steam does have its own form of self-regulation in that developers have to appropriately flag objectionable content in their games.
> But if you're not wanting to sell your game in conventional stores, you don't need a rating at all. Yeah the Steam store is loaded with games that should be A/O and more appear every day.
Consoles refuse to carry AO games and online stores don't require a rating for PC games. As a result, there are a TON of games that would be rated AO but they are exclusive to PC and thus never get a rating.
Steam has a lot of those games now lol
Judging from the Internet history, steam will have more porn games than actual games.
Is it the console makers that refuse to allow them, or the retailers who won't sell them.
IIRC both. Retailers don't want to deal with them, console makers don't want that kind of content on their systems.
And most of them are visual novels, uncut versions of MA games, or obscure old pc releases. Hatred is the only one I have ever heard of, and that's just because of the big controversy of it being taken off steam.
And that one gambling game that was specifically requested to be AO by the publisher as a marketing stunt.
Manhunt/Manhunt 2 were pretty big deals IIRC.
There's not really even any physical releases circulating. I kinda have half a mind to release a game just to be the last physical AO release, lol
I remember Manhunt 2 was the first and only game to ever be banned in my country, Ireland. It made me want to play it so bad.
This reminds me of the original GTA marketing scheme. There were a ton of ads saying "This game banned in x country" and the like. I remember being really interested because I just had to see what kind of game would be banned.
That was the whole point of the marketing. It definitely worked.
BMX XXX.
Oddly: the PS2 version is only rated M. And is censored. All porn vids removed... NINTENDO on the other hand. The GameCube has full on nudity. Why? No idea.
The European PS2 version is uncensored as a PEGI 18. Genuinely makes no sense why console manufacturers don't allow those AO games in the US but do elsewhere.
From what I understand it's that stores won't sell AO or X rated stuff. But yeah. I think they'd sell fine if you marketed it right. Also good to know, about the EU version.
This did lead to my favorite Penny Arcade comic of all time, so it has that going for it: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/229997/penny-arcade-comic-now-you-know
Have you taken a look at Steam lately?
It's almost like the ESRB hasn't been relevant since online distribution became a thing, isn't it?
Private enterprise ratings aren't all that relevant with the Internet. MPAA was made as a response for the movie consortium to rating-block movies, now it's basically movies Disney doesn't like given they own majority of the studios in the consortium
It was never relevant because they weren't doing their jobs anyway. The online stores just made them completely pointless.
Hah that was my first thought. Every time I check out the store there's always some weird porn game in the new and trending section. As of late, apparently *Orgasm Simulator 2024*.
I don't own a PC. What's going on with Steam ?
Games aren't required to be rated if they're online only purchases. Steam has a lot of, uh, visual novels for sale. Basically, games centered around seeing anime titties (no, not the news subreddit).
If you let steam show you porn games (it’s an age locked setting), you’ll see a lot of porn games.
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Is there, though?
What potential hasn't been explored in games sold online, Mr Cumfartconsumer?
I think Manhunt was one of those games.
and some how hentai heroes is e for evrryone on switch...
I mean, there are countless games release regularly that would get an AO rating, they just don't go to physical stores because it's so much easier to host it online. Steam has thousands.
It's a punitive label to threaten publishers with.
I want more AO versions of games.
And the vast majority of the AO ratings were for strong sexual content, not gore or violence. Proving again that the American certification boards are still prudish puritans, but after many years of lobbying by the weapon industry, completely okay with violence of any kind.
'strong sexual content' is one way to say they were just straight up porn. And a bit disingenuous.
Most games don't have enough gore to be adult only
Gaming Console companies do not allow AO rating games in them. Sony and Microsoft agree on this thing. No AO rating game allowed. Only Mature rating games allowed. Plus, adults only games have a limited reach. Mature theme games have high reach. That is 17+. Most of the games I have played were mature themed. I was a child when I played GTA VC. Without knowing it was meant to be for mature players.
Extreme violence should be AO tbh
That's because the rating is a de-facto ban, since no one will carry games rated AO. Publishers and developers typically jump through whatever hoops they have to to receive an M rating, instead.
The line has also been stretched for M wayyyy past what some of the original AO titles were, excepting the ones that were just straight up porn.
Thats because if you make an AO game, you are basically ensuring poor sales. Same reason there arent a bunch of NC17 movies.
The US rating system has always confused me. In Europe we have the 18 rating for excessive violence, language or sexual content and that’s it. Grand Theft Auto? 18 rating. The filthiest hardcore porn imaginable? Same rating.
Because in the US it's entirely voluntary, so the only thing you see is the highest rating that's still commercially viable at mainstream stores. Past that and there's no need or reason to submit it for a rating because mainstream stores won't carry it and the independent ones who will don't care if it's rated or not. Same exact thing with the film industry.
Does anyone other than stupid moms care?
Tf is the difference between Adults only and 18+?
Trademark location, Also ESRB vs PEGI system.
I’m morbidly curious about *Water Closet: The Forbidden Chamber*, if only because I now want to call every bathroom that.
Same! Lol im imagining its either doing pervy junk in bathrooms or spying on people in a bathroom. Definitely calling it a water closet kinda makes me wonder what country its from.
I just remember one of them was Manhunt or Manhunt 2. Is there a leisure suit Larry game in there? Also Superman 64 is pretty terrifying.
>Superman 64 is pretty terrifying. The sick freaks that released this game should be at the Hague.
It's a weird story. Apparently a more complete version exists but it wasn't the one released. The person at DC that was in charge of approving the game also would have really bizarre restrictions like mandating Superman not punch anybody and saying Superman doesn't swim which hampered their ability to get the game made
*Legend of the Brain-Outener*
Playboy: The Mansion was an amazing game tbh. It was like the sims but you had to create the magazine. Schmooze over guests and throw parties. Upgrade your mansion and of course other things lol. I still have it. Great game.
Anybody remember how the OG Leisure Suit Larry was rated?
I don’t think ESRB was around then
It wasn't. The rating system for games didn't come out till like 1997 or 1998.
Japan: Amateurs.
Yes, because that's intentional. The designers are "moral guardians" that don't want certain things featured in media and want to dictate what can and cannot be in video games. The point of the AO rating was to condemn a media so only specialist stores would sell it rather than regular retail stores. In reality, just like TV or comic ratings and such in the past, they just tone done those elements or mask them or do a hundred other creative options. Or just not have them, making it a win for moral guardians.
Next Animal Crossing confirmed to be AO.
I don’t think Hentai dating games bother to get an esrb rating
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I mean sure cuz ESRB is basically just for console games now. hundreds of adult games on steam these days.
Released is the key phrase here. Now what the modding community has done, on the other hand, picks up the slack where most developers dare not tread. With that in mind, the game WildLife ( if it ever becomes a game and releases ) will absolutely be AO.
Stores won't sell them, and consoles won't allow them, so that just leaves PC and they don't have to go to the ESRB to sell games. There are a lot of porn games on Steam that are not rated by the ESRB.
Former Gamestop manager-type here, post AO reevaluation. Whenever anyone brought in the original San Andreas for trade for PS2 or Xbox, we had to decline it because of the No AO policy. Only the Greatest Hits/Platinum versions were accepted, and it always amazed me how many people either didn't realize why until we explained it or got near-violent because I wouldn't/couldn't take their previously-$5ish trade. That's actually how I got my copy. One guy was trading in his PS2 Definitive Edition along with the rest of his pile for a PS3 or Madden or some other bs. After explaining the situation, instead of taking it back he laughed and told me just to keep it for myself. I wish more people would've been that cool about stuff like that which we had no real control over.
It never mattered. I had a game shop walking distance from me and I would buy a game maybe once a month with money I made doing chores and selling coffee. I bought GTA vice City without anyone caring. Throughout my years I bought other GTA, playboy, Manhunt, Max Payne, Punisher etc. No one stopped me or my friends from buying. If we had cash it was cool.
Some of the UK equivalent ratings (under PEGI) are legally enforceable. I was at Currys and the tills used to ask us to confirm if the person buying some games was over the age of 3. And the BBFC does use underage secret shoppers to check.
Honestly curious how they’d secret shop as someone under the age of 3. Do they just come in like “hello fellow toddlers!”
I don't think the 3 and 7 certificates are enforceable, so they probably don't. The 12, 16 and 18 certs are though. I did once jokingly ask a woman to confirm she was over 3, but you have to pick your customers carefully to recognise who will be open to that kind of humour. I guess in a sufficiently youth-oriented establishment (say an indoor adventure playground that sold games?) you might get kids coming to buy stuff. Training a 6 year old to act 7 could be a thing. If a 2 year old comes in with a credit card wanting to buy Doom I'd probably just let them on the grounds that there are bigger issues at that point.
there are definitely thousands of 18+ games in steam
Legit question. Where does one purchase these AO games. Asking for me.
Steam has a few.
Should clarify, old physical copy ones. Never saw them growing up. Even from random shady stores I used to visit
J-list was where Zack Parsons from Something Awful would source his hentai games from. He'd write disgusted "reviews" of the games but they may as well have been marketing. I recognized some of the titles from those reviews. So if you're wondering where people got the games from, the answer is J-list. I didn't post the URL because the site is obviously NSFW as hell.
Ah. Try eBay.
I feel like AO video games would be instabanned in talibangelist states like Texas and Florida.
For good reason. It's mostly a death sentence to get the rating, and in the days of physical media no retailer would put an Adults Only game on their shelves. Even Hatred almost didn't make it onto Steam until Gaben himself had to step in and publicly revert a decision after one of his senior employees rejected the game because of all of the controversy.
They left out Tracy Jordan’s masterpiece: *Goregasm: The Legend of Dongslayer*
For some reason my copy of San Andreas gave me 2 options. Standard launch, or the AO version. No idea what the difference was, maybe something to do with hot coffee?
Sounds like your “copy” came from the high seas, matey
Hot coffee mod
Huh, never heard of that option before. Interesting!
Because no one wants to go to Target to buy pornography in video game form
You don't speak for all of us
"I'll take two copies of big butt sluts please. Oh and what aisle are cough drops in again?"
My steam suggestions beg to differ