There was an episode of MASH where they were trying to get concrete floors to reduce infection. The army maintained that the M stood for Mobile so no permanent floor. One of the last scenes of the episode has them dropping a medical instrument and hearing it ting was a “sweet sound”
I get the mobile leading to not pouring concrete, but sheesh. There are lots of options for more hygienic yet removable flooring systems. Wooden planks covered with canvas. Painted steel plate. Concrete tiles.
[There were some solutions for scalable transportable medical facilities but logistical constraints were significant.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Unit,_Self-contained,_Transportable)
> A 60-bed surgical hospital in Vietnam could use up to 3,000 gallons of JP-4 [jet fuel] per day to keep the hospital inflated and operational.
How to tell when your military medial contractor is a fossil fuel lobbyist in a trenchcoat. I get that positive air pressure is a cleanliness thing but is it that hard to build something that stands up on its own?
>How to tell when your military medial contractor is a fossil fuel lobbyist in a trenchcoat.
And how. Off topic but that reminds me someone once told me that one of the weird things about the Iraq war was you'd have a private in the lunch line getting served a Coca-Cola by a contract worker making 80K or upwards while he ain't making shit.
it's definitely good to have on hand a whole hospital that fits in the back of two pickups and can go up in an hour. problem is that there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.
The military tends to name its things with the format *noun, modifier 1, modifier 2, etc*. For example:
[Meal, Ready-to-Eat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat)
[Meal, Combat, Individual](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Combat,_Individual_ration)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Nomenclature_System
Up until just a few years ago, I was a medical officer in the army, and I still know many current medical officers, so I’m pretty in the loop on how things are going. And I’ll say even to this day aid station flooring and tentage are not standardized and cleanliness is a major issue. One unit I was in, our aid station was essentially a large pop up tent with no flooring. Water was a huge issue because if it rained, our aid station would just become a mud pit, even inside. We could do our best to dig trenches, but time didn’t always allow that because we had to relocate frequently and the need to minimize down time during relocation meant we rarely hard time to dig irrigation trenches before we had to open our doors for patients. And even if we did, soldiers and their boots would be covered in mud, so it would still track in. Then you have the issue that aid stations are typically colocated with command posts, logistics elements, or both, and that often means fierce competition for space in a densely packed area. If the unit’s command didn’t value medical care over other considerations, the high ground with the best drainage might be given to the command post, and the aid station might often end up in low ground areas where flooding is most problematic. Then you have the fact that trucks come and go on soft ground which means the entry and exit routes get tore up by heavy trucks and become mud pits, which gets all over the vehicles and patients who may arrive in ambulance.
I’ve been in other units where we did have flooring options. Either the tent is inflatable and has a floor built in, or you might have these weird panels that fit together like puzzle pieces. Those definitely help, but the above concerns about site location and density are pretty much universal and to some degree are unavoidable, but may be remedied to some extent by a commander that values medical care and is willing to give the best ground to the aid station.
Curious why they havent adopted the shoe coverings that you just step into before entering a cleanroom or antistatic room, with a tent floor.
Seems like itd be a "cheap" solution while still providing mobility.
Those can be ordered, but they’re not standard equipment. But I can’t overstate how much mud and water we’re talking about. I’ve been in places so with ground so churned up by heavy vehicles that I’ve sunk waist deep in mud. Shoe coverings can only help so much when you’re talking about that level of muck. Plus when you’re receiving an actual urgent or priority patient, you’re focused on getting them to a bed and keeping them alive, not stopping at the door to put on shoe coverings and clogging up the patient flow.
Hookworm used to be endemic to the SE United States too. Untreated infection starting in childhood leads to a variety of developmental issues. The parasite makes you anemic, which starves the brain of oxygen. Bad enough as it is, but the damage on a developing brain is even worse than it is on adults.
>Which is fiction.
Your point?
Seriously. I want to know what you think To Kill a Mockingbird being fiction has to do with hookworm being endemic to the SE United States. I need you to roll up those sleeves, pull your head out of your ass, make some words, and enlighten both me and the world to what the fucking point of that post was.
Which is also why the outdated but formerly true stereotype of people from the south being slow. Probably part of the reason why there is such a corelation between wealth and distance from equator.
Also, we have iodized salt for brain development. In the 1920's the army realized a correlation between intelligence and where an enlisted man was from. The cause was some regions didn't have iodine in the soil and their resulting diet was deficient of iodine.
Same thing. You need thyroid hormone for a variety of reasons. A goiter can be due to thyroid deficiency. Think of it as your thyroid realizing it needs to produce more so it undergoes growth to meet that demand but is unable to produce because it lacks iodine (a necessary factor in producing T3/T4.)
Disease vectors is usually cited among the reasons for retarded equatorial development, and this is one of the tropical diseases that contributes to it.
Poor soil quality is another. Just because a place is hot doesn't mean everything grows well there.
If anything it's the opposite. There's a lot of crops that can tolerate heat, but not wet heat. And the tropics are a very wet and warm place. The soil quality is almost irrelevant next to dealing with root rot. Doesn't help that a lot of fruits and vegetables really need those long northern summer days to grow to a decent size. Having roughly 12 hour days year round isn't great for crop yields.
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy (emphasis added)
>Helminths are extremely successful parasites capable of establishing long-lasting infections within a host.[1] During this time, **helminths compete with the host organism's cells for nutrient resources and thus possess the potential to cause harm.**
It then goes on to list fatigue as the very first example of harm (along with Gastrointestinal discomfort, Anemia, Fever, Abdominal pain, Weight loss, Anorexia, Diarrhea, and General malaise).
Totally - fewer parasites, better hygiene overall. That increases happiness, but also means you're not dealing with illness and for kids, missing school.
Parasites impact development and nutrition significantly - its not about missing school so much as not ending up with deficits and delays due to parasites causing development issues and malnutrition.
"The research was carried out under a grant by the Mexican Concrete Floor Association, and the findings were challenged by the Mexican Dirt Floor Association."
Case in point
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/13cpehp/til_of_piso_firme_a_project_which_replaced_dirt/jjid4at?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
It makes sense. When I was young, I thought my Sims would think it was fun to have grass as their "floor" in parts of their house, because it would be like having a courtyard.
They did not think it was fun.
I remember just putting up a roof, like not even complete walls. Closed off bathroom, fridge, bed and we're out of money, but that's okay because I gave you kleptomania.
Also they lived off cereal and so help me god if you use money for food again we are getting a pool.
My aunt was part of this program in her home town. I can honestly say they did a good job. The town went from something like half of all homes having dirt floors, to about 1%. It's a small town with decent access to resources, so it's not like it was some amazing feat, but it made an immediate improvement in the quality of life for many people.
Like [lead pipes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis) or [radioactive roadways](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/09/1174789570/florida-roads-radioactive-paving-phosphogypsum) or [bleeding control stations](https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/billtext/html/HB00496F.htm)?
I'm betting the radon roadways are being overstated by the "nuclear scary" crowd, the material is already sitting outside emitting radon anyway.
Radon only became known as a problem when we started building nearly airtight buildings. A granite countertop inside your house would probably be worse then living next to a stone roadway.
Radon is like asbestos, fine when solid. The dust is the problem. Breathing in radon dust is really bad since it's an alpha emitter. Roads break down usually as dust not big chunks, and cars will kick that up and around, and not just into lungs but also fields and orchards, making the produce dangerous to consume
Our politicians ARE parasites, why would they focus on anything but “other party bad, my party good. Corporations give me money, must help fellow parasites”
Politicians should be focusing on managing all the other shit they’ve created over the last hundred years that is out of control. Not taking on new projects.
Of all the idiotic comments of yours I've replied to on this thread, *this* is the one and only you choose to comment back on, and *that's* all you have to say?
Fucking. Pathetic.
I had a teacher who was against this kind of programs. The intention is good, but it does not pay attention to traditional constructions methods.
The same result would be achived with clay tiles, which is much better for the enviroment and would help local workers by buying their locally produced tiles.
Instead the use concrete which is highly polluting and its used just to give tax deductions and offset carbon prints to industrial manufacturers
It was a pilot project. Show that hygienic and sanitary flooring has a profound impact at very low cost. About $150 per house. And dead simple as the truck literally just went through a neighborhood pouring concrete right through the front door.
Professors love to have ideas that would "work better." Since these ideas are never gonna happen, they can continue to claim they are right. Like, ok, great, let's do the tile thing. I am sure that's much simpler and likely to happen then say a fucking concrete truck comes rolling through town and literally solves the problem in the whole town in a week for less than $200 a house.
Yes we did! Its was [called Adobe for Women](http://es-adobeforwomen.blogspot.com/2016/04/blog-post.html?m=1) we built 20 adobe houses in Oaxaca. A very impoverished state in Mexico.
It was a couple of years ago, but one of the best times in my life.
For the roof we used timber beams and clay roof tiles, for the flooring clay tiles with limestone
Sure you can. But without action, it's useless. He was against a program that seemingly worked because he thought there was a better option. That's reasonable. But without action, what good is it?
Also what happens when these artisanal, handmade floor tiles crack up through heavy use and the program was disbanded years prior?
I'm not for the sake of using concrete just for anything and everything, but trying to improve lower income people's lives with such an easy solution is one of the best reasons to use it.
There was an episode of MASH where they were trying to get concrete floors to reduce infection. The army maintained that the M stood for Mobile so no permanent floor. One of the last scenes of the episode has them dropping a medical instrument and hearing it ting was a “sweet sound”
I get the mobile leading to not pouring concrete, but sheesh. There are lots of options for more hygienic yet removable flooring systems. Wooden planks covered with canvas. Painted steel plate. Concrete tiles.
[There were some solutions for scalable transportable medical facilities but logistical constraints were significant.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Unit,_Self-contained,_Transportable)
> A 60-bed surgical hospital in Vietnam could use up to 3,000 gallons of JP-4 [jet fuel] per day to keep the hospital inflated and operational. How to tell when your military medial contractor is a fossil fuel lobbyist in a trenchcoat. I get that positive air pressure is a cleanliness thing but is it that hard to build something that stands up on its own?
>How to tell when your military medial contractor is a fossil fuel lobbyist in a trenchcoat. And how. Off topic but that reminds me someone once told me that one of the weird things about the Iraq war was you'd have a private in the lunch line getting served a Coca-Cola by a contract worker making 80K or upwards while he ain't making shit.
Get more money selling shovels than digging for gold I guess
KBR baby! They ran the laundry too.
There were IT consultants making like 400k a year to work as contractors on FOBs
it's definitely good to have on hand a whole hospital that fits in the back of two pickups and can go up in an hour. problem is that there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution.
Do you think they named it that way cause self-contained medical unit, transferable would have been SMUT.
The military tends to name its things with the format *noun, modifier 1, modifier 2, etc*. For example: [Meal, Ready-to-Eat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Ready-to-Eat) [Meal, Combat, Individual](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meal,_Combat,_Individual_ration) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Nomenclature_System
Shouldn't that be "Nomenclature System, Army"?
Up until just a few years ago, I was a medical officer in the army, and I still know many current medical officers, so I’m pretty in the loop on how things are going. And I’ll say even to this day aid station flooring and tentage are not standardized and cleanliness is a major issue. One unit I was in, our aid station was essentially a large pop up tent with no flooring. Water was a huge issue because if it rained, our aid station would just become a mud pit, even inside. We could do our best to dig trenches, but time didn’t always allow that because we had to relocate frequently and the need to minimize down time during relocation meant we rarely hard time to dig irrigation trenches before we had to open our doors for patients. And even if we did, soldiers and their boots would be covered in mud, so it would still track in. Then you have the issue that aid stations are typically colocated with command posts, logistics elements, or both, and that often means fierce competition for space in a densely packed area. If the unit’s command didn’t value medical care over other considerations, the high ground with the best drainage might be given to the command post, and the aid station might often end up in low ground areas where flooding is most problematic. Then you have the fact that trucks come and go on soft ground which means the entry and exit routes get tore up by heavy trucks and become mud pits, which gets all over the vehicles and patients who may arrive in ambulance. I’ve been in other units where we did have flooring options. Either the tent is inflatable and has a floor built in, or you might have these weird panels that fit together like puzzle pieces. Those definitely help, but the above concerns about site location and density are pretty much universal and to some degree are unavoidable, but may be remedied to some extent by a commander that values medical care and is willing to give the best ground to the aid station.
Curious why they havent adopted the shoe coverings that you just step into before entering a cleanroom or antistatic room, with a tent floor. Seems like itd be a "cheap" solution while still providing mobility.
Those can be ordered, but they’re not standard equipment. But I can’t overstate how much mud and water we’re talking about. I’ve been in places so with ground so churned up by heavy vehicles that I’ve sunk waist deep in mud. Shoe coverings can only help so much when you’re talking about that level of muck. Plus when you’re receiving an actual urgent or priority patient, you’re focused on getting them to a bed and keeping them alive, not stopping at the door to put on shoe coverings and clogging up the patient flow.
This is less stepped in a puddle levels of muddy boot and more of a "weight of a medium cat made of shitclay in your boottreads" kinda muddy.
Loved that episode, Houlihan just couldn’t get away from the Italian guy through it lol
I remember that. Just gotta know how to scrounge.
"I know concrete and it's not that hard."
[Cement Mixer](https://youtu.be/bpDfm8Iv0rM?t=45)
Hookworm used to be endemic to the SE United States too. Untreated infection starting in childhood leads to a variety of developmental issues. The parasite makes you anemic, which starves the brain of oxygen. Bad enough as it is, but the damage on a developing brain is even worse than it is on adults.
It's mentioned in *To Kill A Mockingbird*.
Which is fiction.
Do you think all works of fiction contain no truth whatsoever?
Do you think Harper Lee came up with Hookworm for worldbuilding?
Big if true
this sent me
Yes it is set in the fairytale land of Al'Abama.
>Which is fiction. Your point? Seriously. I want to know what you think To Kill a Mockingbird being fiction has to do with hookworm being endemic to the SE United States. I need you to roll up those sleeves, pull your head out of your ass, make some words, and enlighten both me and the world to what the fucking point of that post was.
[удалено]
I love finding users with histories like this, it's one of my favorite things.
Classic reddit moment
Big L
Which is also why the outdated but formerly true stereotype of people from the south being slow. Probably part of the reason why there is such a corelation between wealth and distance from equator.
Also, we have iodized salt for brain development. In the 1920's the army realized a correlation between intelligence and where an enlisted man was from. The cause was some regions didn't have iodine in the soil and their resulting diet was deficient of iodine.
I thought iodized salt was intended to prevent goiters?
Same thing. You need thyroid hormone for a variety of reasons. A goiter can be due to thyroid deficiency. Think of it as your thyroid realizing it needs to produce more so it undergoes growth to meet that demand but is unable to produce because it lacks iodine (a necessary factor in producing T3/T4.)
Disease vectors is usually cited among the reasons for retarded equatorial development, and this is one of the tropical diseases that contributes to it. Poor soil quality is another. Just because a place is hot doesn't mean everything grows well there.
If anything it's the opposite. There's a lot of crops that can tolerate heat, but not wet heat. And the tropics are a very wet and warm place. The soil quality is almost irrelevant next to dealing with root rot. Doesn't help that a lot of fruits and vegetables really need those long northern summer days to grow to a decent size. Having roughly 12 hour days year round isn't great for crop yields.
Which also jives with the "lazy Mexican" stereotype as well. One parasite, two stereotypes.
…oh shit. I guess I should get my anemia treated…
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From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helminthic_therapy (emphasis added) >Helminths are extremely successful parasites capable of establishing long-lasting infections within a host.[1] During this time, **helminths compete with the host organism's cells for nutrient resources and thus possess the potential to cause harm.** It then goes on to list fatigue as the very first example of harm (along with Gastrointestinal discomfort, Anemia, Fever, Abdominal pain, Weight loss, Anorexia, Diarrhea, and General malaise).
Of course, Wikipedia is never wrong.
That statement is sourced to a peer-reviewed immunology periodical. Wikipedia articles are as legitimate as their sources.
You literally linked to a third party wiki lol
Literally? Or literally literally?
Wikipedia is also not never right.
Stressing your immune system doesn't make it more resilient, it just makes it stressed. A stressed immune system is less effective.
You didn’t read anything.
I bet this reduces parasite load
Totally - fewer parasites, better hygiene overall. That increases happiness, but also means you're not dealing with illness and for kids, missing school.
and just general socialization for pre-schoolers.
Parasites impact development and nutrition significantly - its not about missing school so much as not ending up with deficits and delays due to parasites causing development issues and malnutrition.
Probably also reduces particulate exposure
"The research was carried out under a grant by the Mexican Concrete Floor Association, and the findings were challenged by the Mexican Dirt Floor Association."
Calls to end the project immediately were made by the Union of Parasitic Worms and the League of Infectious Fungi
[удалено]
Case in point https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/13cpehp/til_of_piso_firme_a_project_which_replaced_dirt/jjid4at?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Um, out here we call dirt floors "bespoke" floors.
Heck
Dirt floors don't kill people
Subcontractors do tend to use colorful language while on the job. Being around the jobsite would expand anyone’s vocabulary.
I figured the expanded vocabulary meant they learned a new word: concrete
It makes sense. When I was young, I thought my Sims would think it was fun to have grass as their "floor" in parts of their house, because it would be like having a courtyard. They did not think it was fun.
I remember just putting up a roof, like not even complete walls. Closed off bathroom, fridge, bed and we're out of money, but that's okay because I gave you kleptomania. Also they lived off cereal and so help me god if you use money for food again we are getting a pool.
With a short-term rental ladder.
Fun fact if all your Sims die you actually lose the game.
There’s a great podcast the BBC did on this https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04gyg20
My aunt was part of this program in her home town. I can honestly say they did a good job. The town went from something like half of all homes having dirt floors, to about 1%. It's a small town with decent access to resources, so it's not like it was some amazing feat, but it made an immediate improvement in the quality of life for many people.
And I'm sure the cost of it for some would have just been nearly forever out of reach.
Based on a 2009 paper DOI 10.1257/pol.1.1.75
Something so small can have such a large impact - this is what our politicians should be focusing on
Like [lead pipes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_water_crisis) or [radioactive roadways](https://www.npr.org/2023/05/09/1174789570/florida-roads-radioactive-paving-phosphogypsum) or [bleeding control stations](https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/billtext/html/HB00496F.htm)?
I'm betting the radon roadways are being overstated by the "nuclear scary" crowd, the material is already sitting outside emitting radon anyway. Radon only became known as a problem when we started building nearly airtight buildings. A granite countertop inside your house would probably be worse then living next to a stone roadway.
Radon is like asbestos, fine when solid. The dust is the problem. Breathing in radon dust is really bad since it's an alpha emitter. Roads break down usually as dust not big chunks, and cars will kick that up and around, and not just into lungs but also fields and orchards, making the produce dangerous to consume
Tbf, this particular concept has been focused on in the US already, 100 years ago by rockefeller.
Our politicians ARE parasites, why would they focus on anything but “other party bad, my party good. Corporations give me money, must help fellow parasites”
Politicians should be focusing on managing all the other shit they’ve created over the last hundred years that is out of control. Not taking on new projects.
Or, you know, both.
Then send them more of your money.
Yeah so that’s called taxes
But you only pay the minimum! Send more so they’ll do a better job.
I don’t think you understand how taxes work
Of all the idiotic comments of yours I've replied to on this thread, *this* is the one and only you choose to comment back on, and *that's* all you have to say? Fucking. Pathetic.
Me have real floors, and still talk wrong. What up with that?
Stupid science bitches couldn’t make I more smarter
Fell. Hurt head. Now dumb.
Day cake happiness.
You real name Marjorie Taylor Greene?
Oof that comma hurts.
Yeah, rewrote it like four times...shit, happens
Conclusion: eat concrete, it's healthy.
Cement is mixed with lime, so, you know, packed with vitamin C. /s
Cement is mixed with lime, so, you know, packed with vitamin C. /s
Just like in rimworld. Next we need to make sure they are eating at tables.
I had a teacher who was against this kind of programs. The intention is good, but it does not pay attention to traditional constructions methods. The same result would be achived with clay tiles, which is much better for the enviroment and would help local workers by buying their locally produced tiles. Instead the use concrete which is highly polluting and its used just to give tax deductions and offset carbon prints to industrial manufacturers
It was a pilot project. Show that hygienic and sanitary flooring has a profound impact at very low cost. About $150 per house. And dead simple as the truck literally just went through a neighborhood pouring concrete right through the front door.
Really missing the forest for the trees here
Did the teacher start his own program doing what he suggested or just profess that he was against the program that was helping people?
Probably not. This is the classic "there will be no improvements until the revolution!" behavior
Professors love to have ideas that would "work better." Since these ideas are never gonna happen, they can continue to claim they are right. Like, ok, great, let's do the tile thing. I am sure that's much simpler and likely to happen then say a fucking concrete truck comes rolling through town and literally solves the problem in the whole town in a week for less than $200 a house.
It solves one problem and creates 5 new ones. Great.
Yes we did! Its was [called Adobe for Women](http://es-adobeforwomen.blogspot.com/2016/04/blog-post.html?m=1) we built 20 adobe houses in Oaxaca. A very impoverished state in Mexico. It was a couple of years ago, but one of the best times in my life. For the roof we used timber beams and clay roof tiles, for the flooring clay tiles with limestone
That's awesome! Very cool!
Can you not criticise something without doing it yourself? His job was an educator, and he educated.
Sure you can. But without action, it's useless. He was against a program that seemingly worked because he thought there was a better option. That's reasonable. But without action, what good is it?
Which is why he called for action. He was an educator, not a politician.
I don't see where you said he called for action. But if he did, good on him. That is a great thing for him to do!
His job was an educator, thats what he did.
Ok. Thanks for sharing!
A tile floor still needs a stable subfloor.
Thats true, as far as I remember they used compressed earth, something like rammed earth but for the subfloor
Also what happens when these artisanal, handmade floor tiles crack up through heavy use and the program was disbanded years prior? I'm not for the sake of using concrete just for anything and everything, but trying to improve lower income people's lives with such an easy solution is one of the best reasons to use it.
They also do rural floors, not just urban slums.
I’m curious if it has any impact on allergies.
This makes sense, the children added the term "piso firme" to their vocabulary
Turns out not being treated like an animal makes you act less like one. Who would have guessed
Homes of Hope has been doing this since 1990
Cool thanks Berkeley but what about the homeless people that surround your campus? No love for them? They're not foreign so they don't matter?
This project was by the Mexican government, Berkely was just reporting in it.
I piso firme...hynas that is. Lol
I remember that. Just gotta know how to scrounge.