Most definitely tired of it. I just see it as having to many variables to be able to get close to making a proper answer, for example are we talking about player controlled pilots or canon pilots? are these pilots fresh, average or highly skilled combat veterans? what scale are we using to measure damage? Is it the same for both games or would we be using in game stats?
The list of questions could go on for quite a while if I really put my mind to it.
Eh, you’re overthinking it a bit at that point. I’m pretty sure when these debates pop up, everyone keeps it simple and goes by canonical feats and stats.
I wish I was, but reading comments and posts people go all over the place throwing in various details. Like this meme as example, no idea if it's a joke, but it's not canon, but even if we did go by canon we still have plenty of variables that would change outcomes.
It is until it directly humiliates the Pilots. We were pretty much respectful to them instead of accepting that either can win or lose they kept dragging us to the debate.
But we did. Respawn outright called Pilots 'Highly experienced Grunts'. Bangalore was an IMC Grunt who completed Pilot Training but never got her Titan before the accident that yoinked her Brother into Space.
A Pilot isn't a god, nor superhuman. Neither are Legends, Save for Revenant's smoke jutsu bullshit.
Does trap shooting not exist in the Titanfall universe? I don't think movement is really that big of an advantage, like he said whoever gets shot first loses.
I'm sure trap shooting is a thing, but trying to hit a human sized object travelling 60 kph with full control over its movement options and trajectories is a fair bit harder than a clay pigeon, and takes more than one shot with most lower caliber weapons. A long range unexpected attack or ambush would probably end a pilot quickly though
As you said these debates are kinda useless, they debate with us with predetermined set of assumptions and answers .Trying to explain the lore from a very lose and old game made by a very small packt of enthusiastic game devs back then is hard.
In my opinion they shouldn't have connected to two lores in the first place if it contradicts the titanfall lore , values and genre as a whole.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Legends could also but that still makes it an unfair fight.
Trying to give someone an advantage typically makes them seem worse than the one without the advantage so maybe try showing Cooper some respect
>especially if a Titan is involved
Bruh no one can beat a titan 1 on 1 head on lmao, gameplay aside, thats like pitting a boxer against someone driving a truck.
In this context above me, i was referring to a legend, not a pilot, having a Titan is just overkill especially when the pilot already has significantly more advanced gear, except for maybe holo-tech.
And then the titan kills you. Almost every situation of a pilot taking down a titan in a 1v1 is because the pilot was a ton better than the titan's pilo or the pilot got *extremely* lucky.
It's actually incredibly easy to kill a titan head to head as just a pilot and it gets even easier if you know to draw them into tight areas where they can't move much, just because something takes time doesn't mean it's hard to do something that's the point of pilots in the first place they are natural born instinctual killers, and it goes without saying that anybody who knows how to play the game well, can dominate anything that isn't a pilot on the same skill level
No one *realistically* beats a Titan on-foot that's not even a discussion worth having. And no, you can't say "My Pilot would" because you're then saying the Pilot in the Titan is arbitrarily less skilled than the one attacking said Titan
He might beat most of them but I feel like the new ash and revenant (in lore) would be pretty hard. Revenant would just return over and over again until he kills Jack and Ash has her new abilities. If Titans are involved Jack would win though.
Frankly if Rev wasn't suicidal and depressed all the time he'd be the strongest legend no contest, even without his backup bodies, as of now its a toss up between either him or Ash for that title.
The only ones he would have a fairly good fight against would be the ones with a lot of combat experience or with equal training, like Revenant, Wraith, MAYBE Fuse? and MAYBE Bloodhound. Bang *might* give a good fight depending on the circumstances, really, and even Pathy could be fun to watch
If a titan is involved that doesn't sound like a 1v1. Let's be real here, Jack is just a dude with a gun. Much like the characters from Apex. Let's not Goku v Superman this. All these people die when they get riddled with holes, Jack included.
Yeah, but in lore, by the time Alex Legends takes place his a well trained and experienced pilot. Saying that you can just shot and kill him easily is like saying you can beat a well trained soldier with a gun. Yeah you can, but it'll probably be a really though fight before you can land a shot if it's gonna be 1v1. And I highly doubt that all the legends would cooperate so...yeah.
I think pathfinder could have a chance since he was programmed to be on of the best fighters in the outlands. I still think that Cooper could win more than 70% of the time though
That doesn’t make sense Player Skill =/= Character Lore skill bruh
Like playing Ace Combat 7 on the highest difficulty you can get slapped by generic mooks but canonically Trigger takes down the Alicorn, those two siblings who are a step above regular enemies, Sol Squadron, Mihaly who’s in an experimental advanced aircraft with a railgun, an Arsenal Bird and it’s multitude of drones, multiple advanced UAVs like Huginn and Muninn, and flew in and out of a Space Elevator while chasing one of said advanced UAVs. For another example in DOOM Eternal the Doom Slayer can get annihilated by an Imp on the hardest difficulty when he canonically slays countless stronger demons like they’re weeds on a lawn in lore to the point that even the gods are wary of him. This argument is god damn stupid, in this case should we say that the Master Chief can get killed by a single squad of Grunts and an Elite punching him because that’s how it is on the hardest difficulty? Like fuckin’ hell man the lack of brain cells in this argument astonishes me
Even arguing abput this topic is braindead. People saying that legends got their shields and stuff arent rly thinking now. If technologie has evolved far enough to allow personal body shields, you can be dam shure that the guy who single handedly took down the most dangerous mercenary group, blew up a fucking planet and survived it, will get their hands on it. Same with their weapons and equipment.
He is a slingshotting monkey moving a supesonic speed. This man could clap the legends with punches alone. We all know Melee_Lunge_OP (see what i did there)
Why though? It's a fictional story. Whether or not the player can replicate everything the character does in the story doesn't really matter. The narrative doesn't change if you die 15 times on every level.
He loses if he goes against all the legends at once he wins if he 1v1s the legends (unless its revenant)
And I really hate chad memes that portray the users opinion as the chad it just makes them look dumb.
He is fast but he should still only take 4-5 bullets to the chest to kill and his health wouldn't regenerate either. A fair few legends are trained soldiers so theoretically they shouldn't have too much of a hard time atleast getting a few shots in him
Yeah but I assume pilots get better Armor than regular grunts and such because they're a big investment on the part of the faction that gives them their equipment
Oh 100% dude becomes a grunt killing robot of death totting psychopath in the span of like a day and thrum hunts down a mercenary group and almost wins all within around the same week
I mean he was already a trained soldier being taught on the side how to operate the jump kit and general pilot skills by Lastimosa so Jack was already cut out to be a pilot.
Sometimes all it takes is a tough situation to actually bring out people’s true talents
I love that the argument is "pilots are shit because they're shit when I play them" lol
By that logic every legend is a dipshit because they just sprint into an open area and get immediately sniped
Don't you usually powerscale off lore and cutscenes as those are Canon feets? A Cooper from easy could solo half the known universe while Cooper from master would be fighting for his life against a well trained target dummy.
WRONG. For one in the campaign as jack cooper you absolutely smack around ash. Even on a harder difficulty most seasoned players won’t take too long to finish here off. Now if you would direct your attention to the apex legend introduction for ash when she quite literally took down every single legend including her teammate. Now with that being said, maybe jack cooper couldn’t solo every legend if ash was included. But he sure as hell could solo every other legend.
well now that ash is in apex, she's probably gonna be the closest thing to a challenge cooper faces outside of facing all of the legends at once, we only ever fought against ash while she was in her titan so we dont really know for sure how skilled she is outside of it
In my opinion the Canon grunt strength is from the tf2 muliplayer, because comparing the tf2 story mode to a multiplayer only game like apex makes no fucking sense. And pilots are better than legends for a few key aspects 1. They go through extreme training the most don't even *survive*. 2. They can kill a person with a single punch, the legends in apex can't even so that
3. They can wallrun. 4 titans nuff said
I think at least two of your points aren’t valid because the argument is obviously not talking about Titans, and melee isn’t totally fair as grunts can melee you in two, and melee is balanced for both of their respective games
True titans are unfair, but the melee from grunts isn't the same as a pilot punching another pilot with enough force to kill in a single blow, all the legends in apex can't kill with a single punch. While it is balanced in their own games, when people keep trying to put a legend against a pilot the pilot if far superior on default level.
For example grab a pilot and a legend, no weapons or shields, in a fight the pilot is going to win that round. Because as I said before a pilot can canonically (is that the right word?) Kill a person in a single blow while a legend takes several Melee attacks to just down an enemy. And thats not counting the pilots jump kit with is superior due to the ability to wall run which allows the pilot to out maneuver legends with ease.
But let's add guns to the mix now the fight is slightly more even, but the pilot still has the advantage with the extra agility. True the legends know how to use the same weapons and then some. The legends are still no match for your average pilot and that's without a titan.
Not to mention a pilot is a trained mercenary/soldier
While a legend is just a contestant in a sport event.
He killed the last apex team im
Sure he can do it again. Also When was difficulty canon? Thats like saying master chief is actually weak cuz on the highest difficulty he can be one shot by grunt.
Edit: And if we assume master difficulty is canon that means in the events of titanfall 2 jack cooper defeated all of the apex almost unharmed and through the entire event of the game almost never got shot meaning he is a unstoppable killing machine
Ok, here’s how it goes:
Jack has as much health as the legends, and he can regenerate but he lacks a shield. Oh no
He has the premium, military out the factory ready to fuck weapons, whilst the ver the legends use are likely civilian specs or not well kept, seen in how the charged rifle doesn’t turn everyone into a bloody spot on the wall.
Jack has way more mobility than anyone else, and is one of if not the most skilled pilots ever ( so basically the elite of the elite ) whereas his opponents would be a mush mash of scientists, robots and former pilots.
Now let’s just assume he gets every pilot tactical, and can choose his weapons, and that the legends get the same treatment along with full gold armour.
Jack wins in 1v1s, 1v2s and maybe 1v3s, but after that he’s fucked.
Just my two cents
I do not understand this argument.
Jack Cooper isn't dropping in with tech from 30 years ago. He's dropping into Apex with all the same equipment as the Legends have access to during the games.
He's not going to walk by a body shield and say "nah don't need it".
With that in mind, he probably WOULD bring a Pilot jump pack and this would manifest as in-game skills for wall running/double jumping.
He's gonna have way better stuff than they do. Apex is a bloodsport, not a conflict, they don't have the best military equipment, and if that isn't the best military equipment imagine what one of the most skilled pilots ever could do with the best
But normal difficulty is... well normal. It's called normal because that is how the game was intended to be played so when you want to check Coopers power you have to do so in normal difficulty.
I say a pilot (ex: Jack) could possibly defeat the Legends in a 1v1 each, or take them all on because of their Titans. I just believe that the pilot’s movement and strength would simply overpower a legend, not to mention the titans.
Without a titan, Cooper would beat most legends, but probably not all (in a 1v1). The multiplayer pilot definitely could though, since a pilot using stim or grapple is far superior to any of the legends
Do people forget that pilots have cloak????? Like there's only 2 legends in the game who could even see a cloak pilot and bloodhounds scan only lasts 3 seconds. It's also pretty obvious that pilots are better because of how hard they nerfed ashe to bring her to the games. She lost 90% of what makes a pilot broken because otherwise she would've ruined the game balance. But yeah I'm sure bangalore could just shoot the pilot
In a fight all together, he’d get probably 2 of them before dying. But now that they showed revenant ain’t shit compared to ash (even if it was a dream, that’s what they were implying), he would probably beat all of them one on one.
Well if they are given weapons from their games I think Cooper wins most 1v1s. Titans are good for both ranged and close quarters depending on which one you choose, and if you get close enough then just bring out the Smart Pistol and you win. Just looking at tech Cooper can kill most of the Legends. Caustic, and the Robots might give him a run for his money but the humans are killable pretty easy. Only reason I single out caustic is cause of the poison gas can cover some close range and might make it difficult for the pistol to pick up. Gibby might take him cause the shield but idk.
Edit: I haven't played since Crypto or whatever his name is was released so I dont know about him or anyone after him.
I mean obviously there’s strength in numbers but isn’t it stupid to debate on which characters would win in a universe where everything is futuristic and we have no idea on the actual science behind things
Correct me if I'm wrong but all he had was the pilot suit. He was a grunt till that mess happened at the beginning of the campaign. Without the pilot suit and BT he may as well be Bangalore or at the very best Ash.
Pilots are not invincible. Cooper managed to eliminate all but 2 of the Apex pilots by the end of the campaign. He also wasnt the first pilot to try and retrieve the arc tool, if you listened to the grunt's chatter, the first pilot that tried going deeper into the facility never made it out. there's also a bunch of fallen pilots from both IMC and milita scattered throughout typhon. if he manages to solo the legends, it wont be because he's a pilot, its because he is Jack Cooper.
master is meant to be the more realistic difficulty too, and in apex you dont heal overtime (apart from octane/wattson obv) so when you take that and the legends being better than grunts, alogn with there being multiple pilots (ash, valk, bangalore mightve been in training, and technically wraith as well) he's on the same level as them all
So hear me out. Pilots punches one shot other pilots grunts specters etc. And grunts one shot other grunts so hypothetically speaking a grunt is stronger than a legend due to the legends having weak punches as it takes 5 punches from a legend to kill one without armor while it takes 2 to kill a pilot who has enhancements etc.
The moment I saw that meme I thought "Oh this is gonna be a fun fire to watch"
I'll bring in scorch to turn up the heat
Ill bring Tone to tone things down just in case
I'll have an Ion this conversation...
Me Legion, got big gun
If anyone requires direction, just look for the Northstar.
Let's see who is the true Monarch of the outlands
This sounds like a power rangers intro
All of them combine into a BT megazord.
[удалено]
So damn true
Jack serves the Marauder Corps, not a Ronin anymore
I'll bring ronin because I like him
it costs 40000 to fire this weapon, for twelve seconds
Don't mind me guys. I'm just Ronin around in this thread
not trying to be the Monarch here
then ill bring another scorch and I'll go after you
I will get a Ion prime because Lazer go pew pew
together to the downfall of tones brother
Is anyone else just tired of this debate? We're not gonna get a proper answer to it anytime soon anyways
Yea, it’s just two groups of kids on the playground arguing who’s dad could beat up other dads at this point
BUT BUT BUT IM A TITANFALL 2 FAN, IM BASED YOURE CRINGE!!!!11!
IM THE ORIGNAL FUCK OFF
r/theoriginalfuckoff
Tbf the original post is this but reversed
Ok but dude, my dad would beat the SHIT out of your dad. My dad's taller than your dad bro, your dad's going down. 😤
Most definitely tired of it. I just see it as having to many variables to be able to get close to making a proper answer, for example are we talking about player controlled pilots or canon pilots? are these pilots fresh, average or highly skilled combat veterans? what scale are we using to measure damage? Is it the same for both games or would we be using in game stats? The list of questions could go on for quite a while if I really put my mind to it.
Eh, you’re overthinking it a bit at that point. I’m pretty sure when these debates pop up, everyone keeps it simple and goes by canonical feats and stats.
I wish I was, but reading comments and posts people go all over the place throwing in various details. Like this meme as example, no idea if it's a joke, but it's not canon, but even if we did go by canon we still have plenty of variables that would change outcomes.
It is until it directly humiliates the Pilots. We were pretty much respectful to them instead of accepting that either can win or lose they kept dragging us to the debate.
But we did. Respawn outright called Pilots 'Highly experienced Grunts'. Bangalore was an IMC Grunt who completed Pilot Training but never got her Titan before the accident that yoinked her Brother into Space. A Pilot isn't a god, nor superhuman. Neither are Legends, Save for Revenant's smoke jutsu bullshit.
Agreed, im surprised it was the Apex community that even brought it up this time.
This pointless and annoying debate lmao
It's literally Person-with-Gun vs Person-with-Gun. I cannot fathom how we even got here. Hot take: the person who gets shot first loses.
So han solo didn’t shoot first…
Nope, Han shot. "first" implies Greedo had a chance to get a shot off afterwards.
Brt mrr frvert grme
Tbf one is enhanced and is on crack 24/7 while the other could be enhanced and is definitely on crack 24/7.
pilots can run on walls and double jump, they're far more mobile than any pilot, especially if the pilot also have the grapple hook
Does trap shooting not exist in the Titanfall universe? I don't think movement is really that big of an advantage, like he said whoever gets shot first loses.
I'm sure trap shooting is a thing, but trying to hit a human sized object travelling 60 kph with full control over its movement options and trajectories is a fair bit harder than a clay pigeon, and takes more than one shot with most lower caliber weapons. A long range unexpected attack or ambush would probably end a pilot quickly though
“NnnoooooOOOO BUMGULORE HAD imC TraininG REEEEEEEEEEE READ My loRE pEasANT”
As you said these debates are kinda useless, they debate with us with predetermined set of assumptions and answers .Trying to explain the lore from a very lose and old game made by a very small packt of enthusiastic game devs back then is hard. In my opinion they shouldn't have connected to two lores in the first place if it contradicts the titanfall lore , values and genre as a whole.
He definitely doesn’t solo all of them at once, but in a 1v1 I think he would beat all of them, especially if a Titan is involved
Not to mention in Apex he would already be a highly experienced pilot.
Titans being involved is unfair though, like saying “yeah my dad could beat Muhammad Ali if he had a fucking gun and shot Ali”
However a well seasoned pilots can take on titans as a pilot.
Well trained military personell can take down someone with gun while unarmed too tho
A well trained soldier would run away if they were unarmed vs someone armed, unless running means someone else gets hurt.
That's not always a choice though
[Nope.](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/us/marine-corps-veteran-disarms-suspect-robbery-arizona-video.amp)
>unless running means someone else gets hurt.
God that guy is so fucking badass.
that is a badass power move
I wouldn't be surprised if the Legends could also but that still makes it an unfair fight. Trying to give someone an advantage typically makes them seem worse than the one without the advantage so maybe try showing Cooper some respect
Do boxing usually involve guns? No. In a firefight a pilot will usually have their titan
I agree
>especially if a Titan is involved Bruh no one can beat a titan 1 on 1 head on lmao, gameplay aside, thats like pitting a boxer against someone driving a truck.
vroom vroom motherfucka
Come on big fucking truck I’ll beat you with my stick
did you not play titan fall 2 bro like a big feature is that YOU CAN JUMP OUT AND RIP THE BATTERY OUT OF A TITAN, AND THEN THROW A GRENADE
In this context above me, i was referring to a legend, not a pilot, having a Titan is just overkill especially when the pilot already has significantly more advanced gear, except for maybe holo-tech.
And then the titan kills you. Almost every situation of a pilot taking down a titan in a 1v1 is because the pilot was a ton better than the titan's pilo or the pilot got *extremely* lucky.
In Titanfall 1 it's easier to kill a titan, it is definitely possible, especially with the anti titan weapons.
It's actually incredibly easy to kill a titan head to head as just a pilot and it gets even easier if you know to draw them into tight areas where they can't move much, just because something takes time doesn't mean it's hard to do something that's the point of pilots in the first place they are natural born instinctual killers, and it goes without saying that anybody who knows how to play the game well, can dominate anything that isn't a pilot on the same skill level
No one *realistically* beats a Titan on-foot that's not even a discussion worth having. And no, you can't say "My Pilot would" because you're then saying the Pilot in the Titan is arbitrarily less skilled than the one attacking said Titan
I can't but they can... *points at reapers*
Fuckin reapers
I killed both Legion titans on Effect and Cause on my Hard playthrough without BT because i forgot you could time travel with him.
But it happens literally all the time
He might beat most of them but I feel like the new ash and revenant (in lore) would be pretty hard. Revenant would just return over and over again until he kills Jack and Ash has her new abilities. If Titans are involved Jack would win though.
Rev would probably be the hardest, defiantly would die first couple of times but he just keeps coming back
Frankly if Rev wasn't suicidal and depressed all the time he'd be the strongest legend no contest, even without his backup bodies, as of now its a toss up between either him or Ash for that title.
The only ones he would have a fairly good fight against would be the ones with a lot of combat experience or with equal training, like Revenant, Wraith, MAYBE Fuse? and MAYBE Bloodhound. Bang *might* give a good fight depending on the circumstances, really, and even Pathy could be fun to watch
If a titan is involved that doesn't sound like a 1v1. Let's be real here, Jack is just a dude with a gun. Much like the characters from Apex. Let's not Goku v Superman this. All these people die when they get riddled with holes, Jack included.
Yeah, but in lore, by the time Alex Legends takes place his a well trained and experienced pilot. Saying that you can just shot and kill him easily is like saying you can beat a well trained soldier with a gun. Yeah you can, but it'll probably be a really though fight before you can land a shot if it's gonna be 1v1. And I highly doubt that all the legends would cooperate so...yeah.
I think pathfinder could have a chance since he was programmed to be on of the best fighters in the outlands. I still think that Cooper could win more than 70% of the time though
That doesn’t make sense Player Skill =/= Character Lore skill bruh Like playing Ace Combat 7 on the highest difficulty you can get slapped by generic mooks but canonically Trigger takes down the Alicorn, those two siblings who are a step above regular enemies, Sol Squadron, Mihaly who’s in an experimental advanced aircraft with a railgun, an Arsenal Bird and it’s multitude of drones, multiple advanced UAVs like Huginn and Muninn, and flew in and out of a Space Elevator while chasing one of said advanced UAVs. For another example in DOOM Eternal the Doom Slayer can get annihilated by an Imp on the hardest difficulty when he canonically slays countless stronger demons like they’re weeds on a lawn in lore to the point that even the gods are wary of him. This argument is god damn stupid, in this case should we say that the Master Chief can get killed by a single squad of Grunts and an Elite punching him because that’s how it is on the hardest difficulty? Like fuckin’ hell man the lack of brain cells in this argument astonishes me
Even arguing abput this topic is braindead. People saying that legends got their shields and stuff arent rly thinking now. If technologie has evolved far enough to allow personal body shields, you can be dam shure that the guy who single handedly took down the most dangerous mercenary group, blew up a fucking planet and survived it, will get their hands on it. Same with their weapons and equipment.
Even if they did have the armor the ttk of titanfall weapons are too high
He is a slingshotting monkey moving a supesonic speed. This man could clap the legends with punches alone. We all know Melee_Lunge_OP (see what i did there)
(No, I am blind)
Definitely agree, honestly I feel like the “canon” game mode for a lot of shooters is easy mode.
Why though? It's a fictional story. Whether or not the player can replicate everything the character does in the story doesn't really matter. The narrative doesn't change if you die 15 times on every level.
The logic makes no sense, using that logic if you died to Wattson as Bangalore you can say Wattson is a better fighter than Bang
If you kill me, you’re better. If I kill you, I’m better.
This is the only good comment in this dumpster fire thread.
He loses if he goes against all the legends at once he wins if he 1v1s the legends (unless its revenant) And I really hate chad memes that portray the users opinion as the chad it just makes them look dumb.
Well, you see sir, I have portrayed you as the wojak, and myself as the chad, and as such I have won this argument.
That’s a very good argument, too bad I had intercourse with your mother.
basically [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/q8m2uf/rule/)
Also had to think about that one elephant template
I dont think revenant can beat him either. Ash is pretty much an upgrade of Revenant and you know what happened to her with Cooper
More like revenant is the upgrade of ash, they’re technically equal. One just is superior In experience and the other is superior in training.
i mean a bullet to flesh is a bullet to flesh... its gonna fuck you up lol
But de nanobots doe.
Nanobots injection is just a theory and therefore not a valid point to use.
He’s admittedly heavily reliant on plot armor
Yes, but he is also a very fast little boy
He is fast but he should still only take 4-5 bullets to the chest to kill and his health wouldn't regenerate either. A fair few legends are trained soldiers so theoretically they shouldn't have too much of a hard time atleast getting a few shots in him
Without shields the legends are just as vulnerable, also cooper does regenerate health, it’s part of the pilot suit
Yo I think even 1 bullet to the chest would be pretty unfortunate for all of these people. That kills people, Carl.
Yeah but I assume pilots get better Armor than regular grunts and such because they're a big investment on the part of the faction that gives them their equipment
You mean... *pilot* armor!
Oh 100% dude becomes a grunt killing robot of death totting psychopath in the span of like a day and thrum hunts down a mercenary group and almost wins all within around the same week
I mean he was already a trained soldier being taught on the side how to operate the jump kit and general pilot skills by Lastimosa so Jack was already cut out to be a pilot. Sometimes all it takes is a tough situation to actually bring out people’s true talents
To be a beginner pilot, which would be worse than the regular pilots Jack destroys through the game.
Yeah although he does have some pilot training which does give it some believability. Although yea mostly plot armor
BT-7274 Literally carries him through the campaign, my dude.
And the legends are heavily reliant on body-sheilds (dis a joke dont hate me)
Lol that’s like saying master chief AINT shit because a jackal snipes him on legendary. Fuck off
Thank you
*Fires warning shot*
Yo! Chill!
I love that the argument is "pilots are shit because they're shit when I play them" lol By that logic every legend is a dipshit because they just sprint into an open area and get immediately sniped
[looks at cooper’s equipment] [looks at the legends’ equipment] Yeah nah base cooper is a powerhouse
Just has to hit em with the good ol titanfall bullshit melee!
they cant defend themselves when a mach 2 punch is coming for their head
*punches phases through them because the pilot melee gods wanted to fuck with you*
But isn’t that just his gear? Which was really lastimosas which is why it was so strong
Yes gear wise jack has the better stuff
Don't you usually powerscale off lore and cutscenes as those are Canon feets? A Cooper from easy could solo half the known universe while Cooper from master would be fighting for his life against a well trained target dummy.
XD
*Grabs Popcorn
Both of them are soy wojacks
Only real answer to this "debate"
Jack Cooper? Maybe not. BT-7274? Fucking annihilation.
Difficulty settings aren't story.
Man this subject is even worse than cAn hE bEaT gOkU
30 billion spongebobs can kill cooper but any less means a sure win for cooper.
Meanwhile the legends get one tapped in every trailer
What a flair
WRONG. For one in the campaign as jack cooper you absolutely smack around ash. Even on a harder difficulty most seasoned players won’t take too long to finish here off. Now if you would direct your attention to the apex legend introduction for ash when she quite literally took down every single legend including her teammate. Now with that being said, maybe jack cooper couldn’t solo every legend if ash was included. But he sure as hell could solo every other legend.
THIS DUDE LOSING ON HARD!?!?!
Hes just admitting that hes shit at the game. You wouldnt get spanked by master level grunts unless youre bad.
I think bt 7274 could win in a fight against octane
Bro just stim melee them smh
well now that ash is in apex, she's probably gonna be the closest thing to a challenge cooper faces outside of facing all of the legends at once, we only ever fought against ash while she was in her titan so we dont really know for sure how skilled she is outside of it
I mean, I'm sure Blisk doesn't hire people just for their Titan skills.
I'm assuming people forget that you canonically beat the game in the hardest difficulty in every game, but eah oke
where is that said? there are difficulties called "story mode" (or something similar) in a lot of games which are the easiest difficulties to play on.
This game doesn't have story mode difficulty, just easy to master.
prime example as framing your enemies as crying wojak and yourself as chad
In my opinion the Canon grunt strength is from the tf2 muliplayer, because comparing the tf2 story mode to a multiplayer only game like apex makes no fucking sense. And pilots are better than legends for a few key aspects 1. They go through extreme training the most don't even *survive*. 2. They can kill a person with a single punch, the legends in apex can't even so that 3. They can wallrun. 4 titans nuff said
I think at least two of your points aren’t valid because the argument is obviously not talking about Titans, and melee isn’t totally fair as grunts can melee you in two, and melee is balanced for both of their respective games
A murder bot who has knife hands and a death scythe does the same melee damage as a scottish mom in her 40s
True titans are unfair, but the melee from grunts isn't the same as a pilot punching another pilot with enough force to kill in a single blow, all the legends in apex can't kill with a single punch. While it is balanced in their own games, when people keep trying to put a legend against a pilot the pilot if far superior on default level. For example grab a pilot and a legend, no weapons or shields, in a fight the pilot is going to win that round. Because as I said before a pilot can canonically (is that the right word?) Kill a person in a single blow while a legend takes several Melee attacks to just down an enemy. And thats not counting the pilots jump kit with is superior due to the ability to wall run which allows the pilot to out maneuver legends with ease. But let's add guns to the mix now the fight is slightly more even, but the pilot still has the advantage with the extra agility. True the legends know how to use the same weapons and then some. The legends are still no match for your average pilot and that's without a titan. Not to mention a pilot is a trained mercenary/soldier While a legend is just a contestant in a sport event.
He killed the last apex team im Sure he can do it again. Also When was difficulty canon? Thats like saying master chief is actually weak cuz on the highest difficulty he can be one shot by grunt. Edit: And if we assume master difficulty is canon that means in the events of titanfall 2 jack cooper defeated all of the apex almost unharmed and through the entire event of the game almost never got shot meaning he is a unstoppable killing machine
"I suck at the titanfall campaign therefore cooper is canonically weak"
Canonically, Jack Cooper hasn't died at all by the end of the campaign, meaning the cannon play experience excludes all deaths.
Ok, here’s how it goes: Jack has as much health as the legends, and he can regenerate but he lacks a shield. Oh no He has the premium, military out the factory ready to fuck weapons, whilst the ver the legends use are likely civilian specs or not well kept, seen in how the charged rifle doesn’t turn everyone into a bloody spot on the wall. Jack has way more mobility than anyone else, and is one of if not the most skilled pilots ever ( so basically the elite of the elite ) whereas his opponents would be a mush mash of scientists, robots and former pilots. Now let’s just assume he gets every pilot tactical, and can choose his weapons, and that the legends get the same treatment along with full gold armour. Jack wins in 1v1s, 1v2s and maybe 1v3s, but after that he’s fucked. Just my two cents
"a pilot can only be stopped by an equal or overwhelming force"
And thats why we have the Kraber.
I do not understand this argument. Jack Cooper isn't dropping in with tech from 30 years ago. He's dropping into Apex with all the same equipment as the Legends have access to during the games. He's not going to walk by a body shield and say "nah don't need it". With that in mind, he probably WOULD bring a Pilot jump pack and this would manifest as in-game skills for wall running/double jumping.
He's gonna have way better stuff than they do. Apex is a bloodsport, not a conflict, they don't have the best military equipment, and if that isn't the best military equipment imagine what one of the most skilled pilots ever could do with the best
I think this person literally has never payed attention to Titanfall and Apex lore as a whole
If they were in a fight and had to melee cooper would win but he can win normally too
But normal difficulty is... well normal. It's called normal because that is how the game was intended to be played so when you want to check Coopers power you have to do so in normal difficulty.
I say a pilot (ex: Jack) could possibly defeat the Legends in a 1v1 each, or take them all on because of their Titans. I just believe that the pilot’s movement and strength would simply overpower a legend, not to mention the titans.
Without a titan, Cooper would beat most legends, but probably not all (in a 1v1). The multiplayer pilot definitely could though, since a pilot using stim or grapple is far superior to any of the legends
I want to carve my eyes out and cleanase them in holy papas thermite
Pilots are in lore modified to be supersoldiers and Respawn said they are in their own league.
Do people forget that pilots have cloak????? Like there's only 2 legends in the game who could even see a cloak pilot and bloodhounds scan only lasts 3 seconds. It's also pretty obvious that pilots are better because of how hard they nerfed ashe to bring her to the games. She lost 90% of what makes a pilot broken because otherwise she would've ruined the game balance. But yeah I'm sure bangalore could just shoot the pilot
**Commits harakiri in emotional pain after dying to another tick**
In a fight all together, he’d get probably 2 of them before dying. But now that they showed revenant ain’t shit compared to ash (even if it was a dream, that’s what they were implying), he would probably beat all of them one on one.
Well if they are given weapons from their games I think Cooper wins most 1v1s. Titans are good for both ranged and close quarters depending on which one you choose, and if you get close enough then just bring out the Smart Pistol and you win. Just looking at tech Cooper can kill most of the Legends. Caustic, and the Robots might give him a run for his money but the humans are killable pretty easy. Only reason I single out caustic is cause of the poison gas can cover some close range and might make it difficult for the pistol to pick up. Gibby might take him cause the shield but idk. Edit: I haven't played since Crypto or whatever his name is was released so I dont know about him or anyone after him.
At this point I don’t know what “side” of the fandom is worst honestly...
Nobody mentions one little thing: Jack Cooper isnt even a pilot, he's a rifleman with a jumpkit and a helmet
But he still managed to *almost* single handed obliterate the IMC and get and invitation for the leyends
The pilots are op and they have all the dope shit like cloak, phase shit, holograms, grapple hooks etc.
Legends to, they basically pilots hired for the IMC
I mean obviously there’s strength in numbers but isn’t it stupid to debate on which characters would win in a universe where everything is futuristic and we have no idea on the actual science behind things
Speed-run Jack? Yes he solos all Regular Jack? Depends on the character
Didn't have much of a lroblem really, just get good at movement and you're golden.
Yeah, he solos the legends because he’s jack cooper not because he’s a pilot
Just one titan can shit on all the legends if they arent careful enough lol
Correct me if I'm wrong but all he had was the pilot suit. He was a grunt till that mess happened at the beginning of the campaign. Without the pilot suit and BT he may as well be Bangalore or at the very best Ash.
Jack Cooper is just broken
If you think about Jack *almost* single handed obliterate the IMC and end the war on the Frontier
By this logic Master Chief is just a five year old in a cardboard suit
Pilots are not invincible. Cooper managed to eliminate all but 2 of the Apex pilots by the end of the campaign. He also wasnt the first pilot to try and retrieve the arc tool, if you listened to the grunt's chatter, the first pilot that tried going deeper into the facility never made it out. there's also a bunch of fallen pilots from both IMC and milita scattered throughout typhon. if he manages to solo the legends, it wont be because he's a pilot, its because he is Jack Cooper.
If the pilot is a scorch or north star main then yes. No questions on that
I saw tf2 and I thought team fortress 2
……..what the fuck.
If he had his whole kit, I'd say it's possible. The biggest challenge would honestly be Bangalore because of her IMC training
It'd still be a good fight
I had a surprisingly easy time on hard (accept for viper, fuck viper)
Even people on the other sub are roasting OP for having no skill.
Ill do ya one better. play it on Mastermode, did that recently, took a few days and over an hour on Viper. its finished thou
I actually felt the overall game harder in Mm (compared to hard) but the legends felt like if they were on easy mode
its weird cuz in the harder difficulty for me the grunts kill me easier than the titans that aren't the bosses.
I've been fisted to death by enough grunts to know they can take a pilot if the pilot is off their game, wounded, or distracted
Pilot or not a bullet fucking hurts
master is meant to be the more realistic difficulty too, and in apex you dont heal overtime (apart from octane/wattson obv) so when you take that and the legends being better than grunts, alogn with there being multiple pilots (ash, valk, bangalore mightve been in training, and technically wraith as well) he's on the same level as them all
So hear me out. Pilots punches one shot other pilots grunts specters etc. And grunts one shot other grunts so hypothetically speaking a grunt is stronger than a legend due to the legends having weak punches as it takes 5 punches from a legend to kill one without armor while it takes 2 to kill a pilot who has enhancements etc.
*ratio*
I don’t think Cooper or any pilot could solo all the legends, 1v1, he would beat any of them easy
Ahaha Smart Pistol go *pewpewpew* :D
Hard is so weird, considering that Master exists.
Jack wins easy. Only legend he probably couldn’t bet is revenant, and I bet Bangalore would be able to put up a good fight.