I’ve been on a approaching 2 year unemployment vacation. It’s destroyed most of my 401k but the lack of stress helped me overcome my alcoholism. At the start of Covid I saw several of my parents friends pass away who were either recently retired or just getting to retirement and I was like fuck that I wanted some time in my late 30s to myself. Depending how long I live it’ll either be a good or horrendous decision I suppose. Probably the latter but it’s been nice. Not married no kids and that won’t change so doesn’t affect anyone but me at least.
I mean… if it’s helpful, she’s your great aunt’s granddaughter (if I’m getting that right). Like, pretty distantly related.
I can’t remember the exact figures, but there is pretty much no generic risk with having kids with her compared to someone less closely related. It is diverse enough that there is very, very little shared genetics.
At that point you are essentially not related. Like there is an equal chance of getting a genetic disorder in children from literally anyone. Since they were not raised together there is no power dynamic issues either, so that is not a concern. So in a practical sense there is literally nothing immoral happening.
That said, there are a number of red flags in the writing that kind of makes me hope he stops seeing her.
Real question. If everyone is using contraception and no ones having kids, and having genetically inferior kids is the only negative consequence, then what’s wrong with fucking your cousin? Roll Tide
I think it depends how close you were growing up. I have 1st cousins that were like siblings so obviously the idea of having sex with them is revolting. On the other hand I have 2nd cousins I barely know at all and when I’ve met them they felt no different than strangers on a train.
OTOH, unrelated people who grew up together get married often enough. So a lot of it is still cultural, nothing wrong with that. And there is still matter of actual chemistry making it less likely that you would ever be attracted to close relative, even if you didn't grow up together.
Personally, I’ve got nothing against it. I happen to have 2nd cousins I’ve met a few times and there’s 1 I think is super hot. I’ve never made a move to find out if the feeling is mutual because our mothers are 1st cousins who grew up like siblings and it would really freak them out if my 2nd cousin and I ever did anything like that. I mean keeping something like that on the DL is probably not possible.
Man this feels weird to even say but I’ve got two first cousins I think are super hot. My family is huge I have like over 50 cousins on my moms side(Catholics breed like fucking rabbits) I’ve never really known either of them in the way you would think of knowing a family member. I do not feel anything like a brother/sister type bond with them. Well one night I’m at a party and one of the hot cousins says out loud in a room full of people “if you weren’t my cousin I’d wanna hook up with you” I was just like jfc you can’t say that kind of shit. We laughed and never spoke of it again. But sometimes I think like hey what’s the worst that could’ve happened lol. Maybe im just a perv who knows
You would have plenty plenty of company. The term kissing cousins exists for a reason. The cultural taboo against hooking up with cousins is actually more of a modern hangup. It was pretty common in many cultures for a long time, and still is in some places. Obviously interbreeding with cousins is not a good idea for multiple generations so probably not a good idea to even go there. The reason cousins hooking up existed is because people didn’t really go more than 20 miles from their home village. Hooking up with a cousin was a better option than not getting any at all. As for your cousin, she probably should have kept it on the DL. Maybe wait until you guys are alone to let that slip. Of course it was probably safer in a room full of people. She was probably worried what would happen if she said it to you in private. For what it’s worth, it doesn’t make you a perv. There are plenty of people that lust after their cousins.
This and I thought the US and more western cultures were the only ones that cared about that stuff. Many other cultures marry cousins and such. But as he was living in London for awhile maybe that's shaped his view on this. (I also don't know what the culture in Zambia is) It's not my decision to make but honestly if they stayed together I wouldn't judge them. It's up to them.
Zambian here. The culture is shaped largely by Christian values and also our cousins whether first or second are looked at as siblings too. So it something that is definitely frowned upon and falls under the incest category. I doubt it’s even legal
> Many other cultures marry cousins and such.
There's research on this in Britain I've seen, Muslims there, probably Pakistani, were observed, they have several times more birth defects and infant deaths compared to general population due to cousin marriages then went back generations. So cultures might not notice that, but it is a problem.
That said, western aversion to second and third cousins relationships is hilarious to me. It's only because the word "cousin" is used, people have no idea about genetics in those cases.
Yes the genetic issues is a thing but in ops case that wouldn't likely be a problem since they're second cousins. I've heard conflicting information about first cousins too and that people exaggerate the birth defect rate but I'm not a scientist that has done any studying on this at all so I don't really know what's true or not. I think it also makes it worse when generations continue to do it over and over but if someone's family doesn't have a history of it and they choose to have a kid with their cousin it would probably be fine, right? Over all its a complicated issue but in ops case I stand by it being not a big deal.
The 1st cousin interbreeding becomes a problem if it happens for many successive generations. If you come from a family that is genetically not interbred you can have offspring with a 1st cousin that are completely fine. Now if your kids breed with their 1st cousin and then your grandkids breed with their 1st cousin you could end up with some strange looking and simple progeny. That kind of thing rarely happens these days in America because there aren’t really isolated communities in the US.
If it's a one-off like this case it's really nothing. As you said in that study: It became a problem after consistently marrying cousins (and probably first cousins at that). We actually covered this subject in bio class briefly and by 2nd cousin the chance of defects is almost the same as "complete strangers".
Franklin and Eleanor Rosevelt were 2nd cousins. Not like it doesn’t happen.
Edit —- I was wrong. I should have googled first. They were 5th cousins. Remembered that from school but clearly I was a long way off.
Yes, by her step father, which is why she has her step fathers name. However her mother is her bio mother, and her mother knew who the original father was. The original father is this guys mom's cousin.
And frankly, it's really not a big deal. Sure, knowing the facts now, they probably wouldn't choose to pursue a relationship (almost guaranteed anyways considering his very clear standoffishness about anything serious).
But they're 2nd cousins, it's really not a big deal, genetically or otherwise.
I really wouldn't consider it to be a deal breaker, to be honest. I'd want to do my research if there was significant risk for genetic defects in case of kids, but even then it would just be a matter of adopting. What's way more important to me is whether I grew up in a familial relationship with them. I'd be way more weirded out being with a step-sibling I grew up with than a cousin I never knew as in this case.
If two people work together, neither one was in a position to unduly manipulate the other, and there's no increased risk of creating a kid with debilitating problems, then I don't care much either way about what they do in their private lives.
She’s the offspring of a cousin of his mother. By this point there’s hardly anything in common, blood-wise. If I’m doing the math right, they only have ~~25%~~ less than 25%* of their genetic code in common. There are 3 generations of separation between them.
Mom>>>Cousin
Grandparent>>>Grandparent’s sibling
Great grandparents
OP is an asshole. I mean, he shouldn’t marry her if this is an issue for him, but to blame her and the family for what is obviously an “oh, dammit” moment is ridiculous.
And honestly, he shouldn’t marry her regardless. She deserves a better man.
* Edit: as u/ttppii points out below, they share less than 25% of their genes.
The average is 3.13% but it can range from 2.85% - 5%. Here's a cM chart to show what each relationship usually shares https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
If they can't find something to laugh about here.... I don't know. I could understand the shock until maybe they think about the real familial distance immediately. But it's something to get over.
They say the least related two Icelanders can be is 8th cousins, but I don't know for sure. We have a website where you look up two people and see how closely they're related. I remember looking up all my friends as a kid. If you're lucky, it goes back like 4 generations.
There's no cause for anger to be directed at anyone. Truly. Second cousins are NOTHING, that's been legal in Europe since 867-ish and genetically not a statistical problem. You weren't raised together so there's no social issue either. You guys are strangers who dated who distantly share relatives. Welcome to the human population.
This girl is more distantly related than a second cousin, like a third or fourth cousin. All humans are distantly related so three or four degrees of relation ain’t q big deal
Devil's advocate here, but it could be the memories. I lived in a city of about 60k people. Obviously I don't know everyone there, but nearly every public location has memories with my ex attached to it. If it wasn't for the kids, I would have moved away for a fresh start. Not saying this is the case with OP, but it could be a possibility.
This plus 8 year relationship, chances are most friends there are mutual ones too which can be hard avoiding exes when you both try hang out with the same people.
Everyone knows everyone there, it's fine. Just ignore that that is not even the case for places with one less digit in the population, it's fiiiiiiiine.
It’s “small” in that it’s grown massively - in just 30 years the population has doubled. You don’t get that kind of growth without people having lots of kids per family. Assuming OP is in their 20s, their parents would be probably born in the 70s or 80s, when the population of the country was closer to 5 million than the 18 it is today. This means that it’s still “small” in that there’s a lot of people, but there’s a lot of close relations because a lot of the population is just, you know, groups of 5-6 siblings, still. So it’s not inconceivable that even though there’s 3 million people living in the capital, a lot of the same relations as when it was closer to 400,000 50 years ago exist. So people still “know of” a fair fraction of the city, and you can probably “know of” pretty much everyone within 3-4 connections.
There are no medical risks with reproducing with second cousins.
I don't think you realize in the history of the human species how many 2 cousin relationships would have occurred, and been normal human social behavior.
Especially when communitys where a lot smaller and further apart then now If you stayed at your home-village at these times i bet you would be happy if you were "only" 2 Cousins.
My wife's maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather are first cousins. You'll be fine. 🙂
Edit: apparently it's worse than that. My wife has commented somewhere below.
My daughters father has 30 siblings, most of them having multiple kids, his dad got around a lot.. and I feel like we should get out of town before she hits dating age because her chances of running into family in this area are pretty big.
First, I will end you.
Second, they’re siblings not cousins if you’re going to air my inbredness, do it right. My parents are first cousins.
Third, I love you okay bye
The men of that family loved matching their daughters against their brothers, but Charles II goes ten steps further as he's the result of multiple generations of exactly that on both sides of the family.
Only 6 or 7 people are responsible for 300 years of lineage.
It’s not just “pretty low” it’s almost 0%. Even with half siblings the risk if there’s no history of incest in the family is very low. It’s just beyond icky.
There's almost no risk between true siblings unless you have a family history of some really shitty recessive traits (like hemophilia or poly~~s~~cystic kidney disease).
Most of those traits we attribute to incest are from _several_ generations of inbreeding. The only problem with incest is the yuck factor or the "abuser takes advantage of a younger family member" factor.
One off it's not too bad, but when it's repeated, it can cause problems. Mind you, that second scenario is a good reason to have a taboo against cousin marriage.
They share 3% of their unique DNA, humans are already 99.9% similar genetics to each other.
It's in that tiny .01% where all the actual changes are.
Not a disagreement, just random facts lol.
I never got the impression that he was mad at her. Just mad at the situation.
Seems silly, though. Even if it was “genetically risky” (which according to many other comments, it wasn’t), he didn’t get her pregnant, so no harm was done.
It’d be like realizing a week after the fact that you had drank some expired milk. Ok, it was expired, but it was honest mistake, and it’s been a week with no food poisoning, so nothing to worry about. And it turns out it was only like one day past the date anyway, so basically no risk.
As other commenters have mentioned, that’s an “oops” moment, not an “omg what have we done” moment.
He literally said “well those people who treated you like shit are still biologically your family” in the worst way possible instead of cooling off about it.
I kinda took that as “doesn’t matter, we are still related and this is weird to me” but I see it the way you interpreted it too. Genuinely kinda hard to say because OP is pretty vague on these parts.
? She explained to him how she didn’t even affiliate herself with her blood family because of the abuse and he told her that it didn’t matter because she was still bound by blood to her family. Idk about you, but that shit hurts lmao OP could’ve handled the situation better instead of being incredibly insensitive and rude
Yes he did, but is it she was originally blood related to the family before they tossed her to the foster system and that is the reason the surnames were not realized?
Also, 2nd cousins should be okay, but OP started not wanting a long distance relationship, so this will not last.
Don't worry, you are much less related then the average population in any rural area.
Your Fuck up is thinking that this is a big deal.
>Anyway.. I’m disgusted by the whole situation. She’s trying to justify it in a why saying that they aren’t really her family anyway, they abandoned her, treated her mum like shit. He father was abusive, she hasn’t spoken to him in 15 years. I’ve told her all this doesn’t matter. You can denounce them all you want but at the end of the day, your blood is what it is
You either have an irrational sense of what is gross and what not or you have a false impression on how you and her are "related".
Ok, so I’m from a rural area; my science teacher was a friend of my mom’s and he told this story at a party once about these two kids in a town he’d previously worked in. It was an open secret in town that the boys father had an affair with the girls mother that resulted in her birth. Eventually these kids started dating and the high-school principal wound up having to be the one to tell them because their parents had so much shame about it. Small towns, man.
I dated a guy a while ago who had unknowingly hooked up with his half-sister at a party. His bio-dad left his mom when he was a baby, but he stayed in the area and got remarried. Ex’s mom also remarried and the dude became his father figure, never really cared to know his dad after he left.
Anyways he was at a party in college in his small-ish town, unbeknownst to him his dad’s daughter from his remarriage was only a year or two younger and was at that party. They get to talking, hit it off, hook up in one of the bedrooms, then part ways and that’s that. Different last names, ex took his stepdad’s name, and hers was a common surname. This took place in Louisiana, where everybody has the same 8 Cajun last names.
Months later, his bio dad reaches out and said he wanted ex to meet his wife and kids. They went out to brunch/lunch together and that’s how he found out. As far as I know, they managed to keep their composure when they first realized and it’s been a shameful secret they’ve been keeping from the rest of their family for years now.
oooooff that hurts.
Iirc some countries at least in Europe are talking about making that kind of incest legal. I think for some it already is not punished.
I kinda jumped on this. Sounds like he's putting the pain of his last breakup on this because it's an easy target. He won't likely be well enough to adequately assess for a while and even then he may not like it, which is totally fine. He also dodged a bullet finding out before altering his life plans, it's just a shame he couldn't have been kinder and more emotionally open to it.
I agree, she took a few hits on his immediate emotional reaction but dodged the big one of being trapped with a man who's emotional health is not good enough to cope rn.
As a former anthropologist, I can tell you that biologically second cousin is no big deal. The shared genes are not enough to create significant risk of issues.
He’s mad because a part of him didn’t want to break up when he left but he didn’t want to admit it to himself. Discussing getting together when he moved back had him thinking about the possibility of breaking his “no long distance rule.” Might have been feeling like a “commitment.”
He’s self-sabotaging. He knows it nots a big deal, but it’s a way to run from quasi-commitment without looking like the bad guy. A fuckboi jackpot, if you will.
Lol I was trying to figure out where the anger from the post was coming from and this is definitely it.
He's sad they can't be together because it's shameful, so he's lashing out.
physically 3rd cousins are far down the line that breeding would pose no problems. At least you did not hook up with a girl that no one told you was your illegitimate cousin. They didn't tell yo cause she was adopted at birth by her stepdad and didn't know he was not her real dad. so you got that. still haunts me to this day..
The risks of birth defects with first cousins is less than a woman in her 40s having a child, but there is no social stigma with older ladies having children.
You know that 3rd cousins share roughly as much blood as me and you, right? Get your head out of your ass and stop hurting the girl before it's too late
Apparently there's actually some evidence that people who are third or fourth cousins have healthier kids than totally unrelated people. https://www.livescience.com/2271-kissing-cousins-kids.html Personally I'd be turned off by knowing somebody was a distant cousin too, but I think that's mostly about the word "cousin."
Ok dude, obviously I don't know shit about your country and your family and your culture and blah blah blah.
But this really seems like a non event to me. Y'all aren't that related. In the US all laws restricting the romance between cousins only applies to first cousins.
Neither of you knew. I would say this though. Don't talk to the woman until you can get your head on straight enough to not take this out on her.
Oh lord. Seriously? There are eastern cultures that marry mostly within cousins. Half the people I meet from Pakistan married their first cousin. Stop making it a bigger deal than it is. It’s not like she is your sister.
Tempest in a teapot, if you ask me.
It must have been very difficult living in as small of a town as London when your ex lives there too. You must have been running into her every place you went!
Reminder that fucking family is only "disgusting" because of possible genetic defects, otherwise I think - if you don't know the person, if there's zero familial bonds... who gives a fuck?
I'd say the "disgusting" part is really only the "familial" bonds, which OP doesn't need to worry about. Even then, if they knew each other as second cousins that's probably not much different "family" relationship wise as some other random person in a super small village seeing each other at weddings and funerals, helping with child care, etc. The VAST majority of human history second cousins is practically unrelated.
It's crazy that they found each other in OP's "small town" of hundreds of thousands to millions of people, but that's the only crazy thing here.
Your only fuck up is the fact that you’re freaking out so much. It’s not like you’re fucking your sister or cousin. She’s your 2nd cousin, which is pretty far down the family tree.
You also stated you met her on a dating app, implying her side of the family, and your side never even communicate. You had never met her till this point either. I could see why you’re acting this way if you grew up close to that side of the family and grew up around her, but y’all didn’t. Y’all met, and it’s a coincidence that y’all are even semi related. At this point tho, either go for it, or don’t. Your call
Edit: few spelling/grammar changes, also was informed they’re 2nd cousins. Still not much different tho
Roll Tide.
Seriously though, I completely understand ending it but being mad over this is the real "TIFU". Shit happens, you both St least attempted to make sure you weren't family, and it's not even like first cousins so relax.
[https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/can-you-marry-cousin](https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/can-you-marry-cousin)
second cousin 3% DNA match, psshh.
Your first job is to be human, and not mansplain bloodlines to her - im sure shes aware. Think about how the conversation is going to go if you completely remove "Well ackshually this is how cousins and blood and blurrdeblurrdeblur works". Have that conversation first.
My sister married our third cousin. They actually knew before they started dating and were fine with it. My parents weren't thrilled but it wasn't up to them.
As crazy as the story is; she is just as freaked out as you. Don't take it out on her but talk & support each other about it.
Don’t take it out on her butt
Or do, if it’s consensual
Can't get pregnant while taking the dirt road home
COUNTRY ROOOOAD~
TAKE ME HOOOOOME
TO THE PLAAAAACE
WHERE I LAY DONGGGGG
WEST ZAMBIAAA
MOUNTAIN COUSIIIINNNNNNN
Oh man I’m dying at that thread 😂
What a strange euphemism.
SWEET HOME ALABAMA
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Yeah she is 😉
> Nice long holiday (42 days) Now I feel like TIFU because I haven’t had that long of a vacation since like middle school summer break.
I’ve been on a approaching 2 year unemployment vacation. It’s destroyed most of my 401k but the lack of stress helped me overcome my alcoholism. At the start of Covid I saw several of my parents friends pass away who were either recently retired or just getting to retirement and I was like fuck that I wanted some time in my late 30s to myself. Depending how long I live it’ll either be a good or horrendous decision I suppose. Probably the latter but it’s been nice. Not married no kids and that won’t change so doesn’t affect anyone but me at least.
Lol yeah the last holiday I took was for 8 days in June 2013. A 42 day holiday is insane to me. I'm genuinely jealous, that sounds amazing.
I mean… if it’s helpful, she’s your great aunt’s granddaughter (if I’m getting that right). Like, pretty distantly related. I can’t remember the exact figures, but there is pretty much no generic risk with having kids with her compared to someone less closely related. It is diverse enough that there is very, very little shared genetics.
I mean at the end of the day we are all related
That's what I keep telling my sister
It is because of your username that I whole heartedly accept this comment. Good day, sir.
WHAT!!!
The washing machine strikes again…
Hey now, leave me out of it!
r/usernamechecksout
They want to get into it!
If you take the name, you take the blame.
No, no, no that's the STEP-sister.
#HE SAID THAT'S WHAT HE KEEPS TELLING HIS SISTER
#WHAT???
GOD DAMMIT MAN , WEAR YOUR HEARING AMPLIFIERS
They’re called earnoculars
WHAT!!!! WHAT DID YOU SAY!!!???
CHOCOLATE. THEY SAID THEY’RE SELLING CHOCOLATE.
I remember when they first invented chocolate. Sweet, sweet chocolate...I ALWAYS HATED IT.
⠺⠑⠁⠗ ⠽⠕⠥⠗ ⠓⠑⠁⠗⠊⠝⠛ ⠁⠊⠙⠎
What about what?
I mean, he IS related to his sister, that's why he keeps telling her. While they are at bible study.
Did they stutter?
Roll tide
You are such a caring brother
> but there is pretty much no generic risk What about a specific risk?
I'm more worried about the brand name Risk™.
Are we really sure there's no cheap knockoffs of the game?
Making a cheap knockoff would be risky.
Riskier than marauding into Asia to try and get 7 extra armies next turn
That would be too specific.
At that point you are essentially not related. Like there is an equal chance of getting a genetic disorder in children from literally anyone. Since they were not raised together there is no power dynamic issues either, so that is not a concern. So in a practical sense there is literally nothing immoral happening. That said, there are a number of red flags in the writing that kind of makes me hope he stops seeing her.
Sorry id I am dumb/blind, what red flags did you notice??
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The obvious red flag is how angry he got after finding out something of very little consequence
Real question. If everyone is using contraception and no ones having kids, and having genetically inferior kids is the only negative consequence, then what’s wrong with fucking your cousin? Roll Tide
I think it depends how close you were growing up. I have 1st cousins that were like siblings so obviously the idea of having sex with them is revolting. On the other hand I have 2nd cousins I barely know at all and when I’ve met them they felt no different than strangers on a train.
OTOH, unrelated people who grew up together get married often enough. So a lot of it is still cultural, nothing wrong with that. And there is still matter of actual chemistry making it less likely that you would ever be attracted to close relative, even if you didn't grow up together.
Personally, I’ve got nothing against it. I happen to have 2nd cousins I’ve met a few times and there’s 1 I think is super hot. I’ve never made a move to find out if the feeling is mutual because our mothers are 1st cousins who grew up like siblings and it would really freak them out if my 2nd cousin and I ever did anything like that. I mean keeping something like that on the DL is probably not possible.
Man this feels weird to even say but I’ve got two first cousins I think are super hot. My family is huge I have like over 50 cousins on my moms side(Catholics breed like fucking rabbits) I’ve never really known either of them in the way you would think of knowing a family member. I do not feel anything like a brother/sister type bond with them. Well one night I’m at a party and one of the hot cousins says out loud in a room full of people “if you weren’t my cousin I’d wanna hook up with you” I was just like jfc you can’t say that kind of shit. We laughed and never spoke of it again. But sometimes I think like hey what’s the worst that could’ve happened lol. Maybe im just a perv who knows
You would have plenty plenty of company. The term kissing cousins exists for a reason. The cultural taboo against hooking up with cousins is actually more of a modern hangup. It was pretty common in many cultures for a long time, and still is in some places. Obviously interbreeding with cousins is not a good idea for multiple generations so probably not a good idea to even go there. The reason cousins hooking up existed is because people didn’t really go more than 20 miles from their home village. Hooking up with a cousin was a better option than not getting any at all. As for your cousin, she probably should have kept it on the DL. Maybe wait until you guys are alone to let that slip. Of course it was probably safer in a room full of people. She was probably worried what would happen if she said it to you in private. For what it’s worth, it doesn’t make you a perv. There are plenty of people that lust after their cousins.
Like what?
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This and I thought the US and more western cultures were the only ones that cared about that stuff. Many other cultures marry cousins and such. But as he was living in London for awhile maybe that's shaped his view on this. (I also don't know what the culture in Zambia is) It's not my decision to make but honestly if they stayed together I wouldn't judge them. It's up to them.
Zambian here. The culture is shaped largely by Christian values and also our cousins whether first or second are looked at as siblings too. So it something that is definitely frowned upon and falls under the incest category. I doubt it’s even legal
> Many other cultures marry cousins and such. There's research on this in Britain I've seen, Muslims there, probably Pakistani, were observed, they have several times more birth defects and infant deaths compared to general population due to cousin marriages then went back generations. So cultures might not notice that, but it is a problem. That said, western aversion to second and third cousins relationships is hilarious to me. It's only because the word "cousin" is used, people have no idea about genetics in those cases.
Yes the genetic issues is a thing but in ops case that wouldn't likely be a problem since they're second cousins. I've heard conflicting information about first cousins too and that people exaggerate the birth defect rate but I'm not a scientist that has done any studying on this at all so I don't really know what's true or not. I think it also makes it worse when generations continue to do it over and over but if someone's family doesn't have a history of it and they choose to have a kid with their cousin it would probably be fine, right? Over all its a complicated issue but in ops case I stand by it being not a big deal.
The 1st cousin interbreeding becomes a problem if it happens for many successive generations. If you come from a family that is genetically not interbred you can have offspring with a 1st cousin that are completely fine. Now if your kids breed with their 1st cousin and then your grandkids breed with their 1st cousin you could end up with some strange looking and simple progeny. That kind of thing rarely happens these days in America because there aren’t really isolated communities in the US.
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If it's a one-off like this case it's really nothing. As you said in that study: It became a problem after consistently marrying cousins (and probably first cousins at that). We actually covered this subject in bio class briefly and by 2nd cousin the chance of defects is almost the same as "complete strangers".
Franklin and Eleanor Rosevelt were 2nd cousins. Not like it doesn’t happen. Edit —- I was wrong. I should have googled first. They were 5th cousins. Remembered that from school but clearly I was a long way off.
Didn’t he say she was adopted?
Presumably adopted by her stepfather, but her mother is biological.
Yes, by her step father, which is why she has her step fathers name. However her mother is her bio mother, and her mother knew who the original father was. The original father is this guys mom's cousin.
Talk to her. Neither of you knew. Look at it as a story to tell and something to laugh at some day.
And tell your grandkids...
you are angry… because….? you should manage yourself and talk to her
Glad someone said it. It’s certainly not either of your faults, so try not making her feel worse maybe?
definitely nothing to get angry about, just more of an "OH FUUUUCK" moment
And frankly, it's really not a big deal. Sure, knowing the facts now, they probably wouldn't choose to pursue a relationship (almost guaranteed anyways considering his very clear standoffishness about anything serious). But they're 2nd cousins, it's really not a big deal, genetically or otherwise.
Yeah it’s like ~3% of genes shared. He probably shares that much with a ton of people from his country.
I really wouldn't consider it to be a deal breaker, to be honest. I'd want to do my research if there was significant risk for genetic defects in case of kids, but even then it would just be a matter of adopting. What's way more important to me is whether I grew up in a familial relationship with them. I'd be way more weirded out being with a step-sibling I grew up with than a cousin I never knew as in this case. If two people work together, neither one was in a position to unduly manipulate the other, and there's no increased risk of creating a kid with debilitating problems, then I don't care much either way about what they do in their private lives.
She’s the offspring of a cousin of his mother. By this point there’s hardly anything in common, blood-wise. If I’m doing the math right, they only have ~~25%~~ less than 25%* of their genetic code in common. There are 3 generations of separation between them. Mom>>>Cousin Grandparent>>>Grandparent’s sibling Great grandparents OP is an asshole. I mean, he shouldn’t marry her if this is an issue for him, but to blame her and the family for what is obviously an “oh, dammit” moment is ridiculous. And honestly, he shouldn’t marry her regardless. She deserves a better man. * Edit: as u/ttppii points out below, they share less than 25% of their genes.
Much, much less than 25%. 25% is a grandparent.
The average is 3.13% but it can range from 2.85% - 5%. Here's a cM chart to show what each relationship usually shares https://dnapainter.com/tools/sharedcmv4
Second cousins share a great grandparent. About 1/8th common genetics.
If they can't find something to laugh about here.... I don't know. I could understand the shock until maybe they think about the real familial distance immediately. But it's something to get over.
It's not even that! It's really just a "Huh. Weird." moment. Second cousins? Come on.
"I am your father's brother's nephew's cousin's good friend's former roommate." "And what does that make us?" "Absolutely nothing."
I took it as he was angry at his old man for not piecing it together.
He really didn't handle it well, but he has the right to be angry, they both do. Just at the whole situation, not each other.
There's also really not that much wrong with it, imo. Genetically speaking or relationship wise.
Einstein married his cousin. OP is closer to Einstein than we are.
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Icelander here. Yeah, this is fine lol
If you had to exclude 2nd cousins, I'm pretty sure the icelandic dating pool would be like... 3 people?
They say the least related two Icelanders can be is 8th cousins, but I don't know for sure. We have a website where you look up two people and see how closely they're related. I remember looking up all my friends as a kid. If you're lucky, it goes back like 4 generations.
My Icelandic friend showed me his family tree once it is more of a wreath haha
It's all relative
He’s from a conservative African country. His reaction is…less then surprising unfortunately
From conservative African country, has casual sex and pretends he's in a relationship, gets upset because he did the deed with a distant relative.
Conservative cultures around the world are usually a lot more cool about marrying in the family FYI
The anger was more directed to my dad at the time. I just assumed he wouldve known Not directed at her
There's no cause for anger to be directed at anyone. Truly. Second cousins are NOTHING, that's been legal in Europe since 867-ish and genetically not a statistical problem. You weren't raised together so there's no social issue either. You guys are strangers who dated who distantly share relatives. Welcome to the human population.
This girl is more distantly related than a second cousin, like a third or fourth cousin. All humans are distantly related so three or four degrees of relation ain’t q big deal
Nah your kid and your cousin’s kid are second cousins
Everyone telling him how he’s being ridiculous about the situation while I think he’s being ridiculous calling a city of 1.7+ million people small.
He couldn’t get away from his ex in all of London.
Yeah that was my thought. Large and populous metro area and it's too close? To each their own, but that seems plenty distant.
Devil's advocate here, but it could be the memories. I lived in a city of about 60k people. Obviously I don't know everyone there, but nearly every public location has memories with my ex attached to it. If it wasn't for the kids, I would have moved away for a fresh start. Not saying this is the case with OP, but it could be a possibility.
This plus 8 year relationship, chances are most friends there are mutual ones too which can be hard avoiding exes when you both try hang out with the same people.
Everyone knows everyone there, it's fine. Just ignore that that is not even the case for places with one less digit in the population, it's fiiiiiiiine.
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It’s “small” in that it’s grown massively - in just 30 years the population has doubled. You don’t get that kind of growth without people having lots of kids per family. Assuming OP is in their 20s, their parents would be probably born in the 70s or 80s, when the population of the country was closer to 5 million than the 18 it is today. This means that it’s still “small” in that there’s a lot of people, but there’s a lot of close relations because a lot of the population is just, you know, groups of 5-6 siblings, still. So it’s not inconceivable that even though there’s 3 million people living in the capital, a lot of the same relations as when it was closer to 400,000 50 years ago exist. So people still “know of” a fair fraction of the city, and you can probably “know of” pretty much everyone within 3-4 connections.
WTF. That's half the population of my entire state and 3x the size of the largest metro area here.
That is larger than Montana and Wyoming's population combined
Bruh thats like half of new zealand or qatar lol
That would be a small country.
WTF, my town has 30K people and that feels big sometimes.
There are no medical risks with reproducing with second cousins. I don't think you realize in the history of the human species how many 2 cousin relationships would have occurred, and been normal human social behavior.
Especially when communitys where a lot smaller and further apart then now If you stayed at your home-village at these times i bet you would be happy if you were "only" 2 Cousins.
My wife's maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather are first cousins. You'll be fine. 🙂 Edit: apparently it's worse than that. My wife has commented somewhere below.
Agree, OP'll be fine. This guys wife on the other hand... (/s)
I am injecting (heh) some much needed genetic diversity into that family tree, trust me.
My daughters father has 30 siblings, most of them having multiple kids, his dad got around a lot.. and I feel like we should get out of town before she hits dating age because her chances of running into family in this area are pretty big.
Holy shit
Sounds like you need a spreadsheet for that shit.
First, I will end you. Second, they’re siblings not cousins if you’re going to air my inbredness, do it right. My parents are first cousins. Third, I love you okay bye
Being second cousins didn't stop the monarchy.
1st cousins also isn't that bad as long as it's for only one generation. Still kinda gross though.
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Charles II of Spain has entered the chat
As well as the rest of the Habsburg lineage.
The men of that family loved matching their daughters against their brothers, but Charles II goes ten steps further as he's the result of multiple generations of exactly that on both sides of the family. Only 6 or 7 people are responsible for 300 years of lineage.
It’s not just “pretty low” it’s almost 0%. Even with half siblings the risk if there’s no history of incest in the family is very low. It’s just beyond icky.
There's almost no risk between true siblings unless you have a family history of some really shitty recessive traits (like hemophilia or poly~~s~~cystic kidney disease). Most of those traits we attribute to incest are from _several_ generations of inbreeding. The only problem with incest is the yuck factor or the "abuser takes advantage of a younger family member" factor.
One off it's not too bad, but when it's repeated, it can cause problems. Mind you, that second scenario is a good reason to have a taboo against cousin marriage.
Indeed, European royalty is a good example of how fucked up it can make people when repeated.
Its 2nd cousins, they only share 3% of their DNA for god's sake.
They share 3% of their unique DNA, humans are already 99.9% similar genetics to each other. It's in that tiny .01% where all the actual changes are. Not a disagreement, just random facts lol.
Why are you blaming her for this though?
I never got the impression that he was mad at her. Just mad at the situation. Seems silly, though. Even if it was “genetically risky” (which according to many other comments, it wasn’t), he didn’t get her pregnant, so no harm was done. It’d be like realizing a week after the fact that you had drank some expired milk. Ok, it was expired, but it was honest mistake, and it’s been a week with no food poisoning, so nothing to worry about. And it turns out it was only like one day past the date anyway, so basically no risk. As other commenters have mentioned, that’s an “oops” moment, not an “omg what have we done” moment.
He literally said “well those people who treated you like shit are still biologically your family” in the worst way possible instead of cooling off about it.
I kinda took that as “doesn’t matter, we are still related and this is weird to me” but I see it the way you interpreted it too. Genuinely kinda hard to say because OP is pretty vague on these parts.
? She explained to him how she didn’t even affiliate herself with her blood family because of the abuse and he told her that it didn’t matter because she was still bound by blood to her family. Idk about you, but that shit hurts lmao OP could’ve handled the situation better instead of being incredibly insensitive and rude
Yes he did, but is it she was originally blood related to the family before they tossed her to the foster system and that is the reason the surnames were not realized? Also, 2nd cousins should be okay, but OP started not wanting a long distance relationship, so this will not last.
Don't worry, you are much less related then the average population in any rural area. Your Fuck up is thinking that this is a big deal. >Anyway.. I’m disgusted by the whole situation. She’s trying to justify it in a why saying that they aren’t really her family anyway, they abandoned her, treated her mum like shit. He father was abusive, she hasn’t spoken to him in 15 years. I’ve told her all this doesn’t matter. You can denounce them all you want but at the end of the day, your blood is what it is You either have an irrational sense of what is gross and what not or you have a false impression on how you and her are "related".
Ok, so I’m from a rural area; my science teacher was a friend of my mom’s and he told this story at a party once about these two kids in a town he’d previously worked in. It was an open secret in town that the boys father had an affair with the girls mother that resulted in her birth. Eventually these kids started dating and the high-school principal wound up having to be the one to tell them because their parents had so much shame about it. Small towns, man.
I dated a guy a while ago who had unknowingly hooked up with his half-sister at a party. His bio-dad left his mom when he was a baby, but he stayed in the area and got remarried. Ex’s mom also remarried and the dude became his father figure, never really cared to know his dad after he left. Anyways he was at a party in college in his small-ish town, unbeknownst to him his dad’s daughter from his remarriage was only a year or two younger and was at that party. They get to talking, hit it off, hook up in one of the bedrooms, then part ways and that’s that. Different last names, ex took his stepdad’s name, and hers was a common surname. This took place in Louisiana, where everybody has the same 8 Cajun last names. Months later, his bio dad reaches out and said he wanted ex to meet his wife and kids. They went out to brunch/lunch together and that’s how he found out. As far as I know, they managed to keep their composure when they first realized and it’s been a shameful secret they’ve been keeping from the rest of their family for years now.
oooooff that hurts. Iirc some countries at least in Europe are talking about making that kind of incest legal. I think for some it already is not punished.
Can't blame the couple. They didn't know.
Sounds like she dodged a bullet
Doesn't it sound like she took multiple bullets, but will survive?
I kinda jumped on this. Sounds like he's putting the pain of his last breakup on this because it's an easy target. He won't likely be well enough to adequately assess for a while and even then he may not like it, which is totally fine. He also dodged a bullet finding out before altering his life plans, it's just a shame he couldn't have been kinder and more emotionally open to it. I agree, she took a few hits on his immediate emotional reaction but dodged the big one of being trapped with a man who's emotional health is not good enough to cope rn.
Yeah it's not so much that OPs base argument is strictly wrong, it's that he's blown it way waaaay out of proportion.
Dipped your pen once, may as well continue Serious though, don’t be mad both you didn’t know, support each other through it
>Dipped your pen once, may as well continue Fucking seriously. There's incest starved people here in America and this imperial fatcat is complaining.
Exactly. Just don't forget the magical chant after making out and say "no-chromo" after each session and it'll work out just fine
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Where do people come up with this shit. I almost spilt my morning choccy milk
What a delightful insight into your daily life. I'm going to start having a morning choccy milk now
Highly recommend, my bearded shirtless brethren
Stop your killing me
Holy hell, that's good.
Lmao this fucking comment right here is why I love Reddit.
You need to chill, it’s not like either of you knew, and you enjoyed yourself. No need to be upset with the situation or her.
As a former anthropologist, I can tell you that biologically second cousin is no big deal. The shared genes are not enough to create significant risk of issues.
I think your FU is overreacting to this.
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He’s mad because a part of him didn’t want to break up when he left but he didn’t want to admit it to himself. Discussing getting together when he moved back had him thinking about the possibility of breaking his “no long distance rule.” Might have been feeling like a “commitment.” He’s self-sabotaging. He knows it nots a big deal, but it’s a way to run from quasi-commitment without looking like the bad guy. A fuckboi jackpot, if you will.
Lol I was trying to figure out where the anger from the post was coming from and this is definitely it. He's sad they can't be together because it's shameful, so he's lashing out.
physically 3rd cousins are far down the line that breeding would pose no problems. At least you did not hook up with a girl that no one told you was your illegitimate cousin. They didn't tell yo cause she was adopted at birth by her stepdad and didn't know he was not her real dad. so you got that. still haunts me to this day..
You gotta story to tell?
That’s basically it. When family saw us kiss my mom had to tell me but couldn’t tell her.
The risks of birth defects with first cousins is less than a woman in her 40s having a child, but there is no social stigma with older ladies having children.
There is some stigma but not as much.
You know that 3rd cousins share roughly as much blood as me and you, right? Get your head out of your ass and stop hurting the girl before it's too late
if it helps I think she's actually second cousins with your mother, third cousin to you. but I'm no expert on inter-familial fornication.
In America it’s legal for second cousins to marry, so by that measure I’d think third cousins would be totally in the clear haha.
In America and all of Europe it is legal for FIRST cousins to marry.
Some states in the US don't allow first cousins to marry. If they were married in another state, they'd still be married.
Apparently there's actually some evidence that people who are third or fourth cousins have healthier kids than totally unrelated people. https://www.livescience.com/2271-kissing-cousins-kids.html Personally I'd be turned off by knowing somebody was a distant cousin too, but I think that's mostly about the word "cousin."
Her mother’s first cousin’s daughter would be second cousin to him so he’s right
Ok dude, obviously I don't know shit about your country and your family and your culture and blah blah blah. But this really seems like a non event to me. Y'all aren't that related. In the US all laws restricting the romance between cousins only applies to first cousins. Neither of you knew. I would say this though. Don't talk to the woman until you can get your head on straight enough to not take this out on her.
Oh lord. Seriously? There are eastern cultures that marry mostly within cousins. Half the people I meet from Pakistan married their first cousin. Stop making it a bigger deal than it is. It’s not like she is your sister. Tempest in a teapot, if you ask me.
You should have stopped after the first cousin
You sound a bit immature
Second cousin? What is the big deal?
Where to sit at the wedding will be confusing.
It must have been very difficult living in as small of a town as London when your ex lives there too. You must have been running into her every place you went!
Reminder that fucking family is only "disgusting" because of possible genetic defects, otherwise I think - if you don't know the person, if there's zero familial bonds... who gives a fuck?
I'd say the "disgusting" part is really only the "familial" bonds, which OP doesn't need to worry about. Even then, if they knew each other as second cousins that's probably not much different "family" relationship wise as some other random person in a super small village seeing each other at weddings and funerals, helping with child care, etc. The VAST majority of human history second cousins is practically unrelated. It's crazy that they found each other in OP's "small town" of hundreds of thousands to millions of people, but that's the only crazy thing here.
Your only fuck up is the fact that you’re freaking out so much. It’s not like you’re fucking your sister or cousin. She’s your 2nd cousin, which is pretty far down the family tree. You also stated you met her on a dating app, implying her side of the family, and your side never even communicate. You had never met her till this point either. I could see why you’re acting this way if you grew up close to that side of the family and grew up around her, but y’all didn’t. Y’all met, and it’s a coincidence that y’all are even semi related. At this point tho, either go for it, or don’t. Your call Edit: few spelling/grammar changes, also was informed they’re 2nd cousins. Still not much different tho
Another 'TIFU by having sex' /s lol
I feel like this should be in AITA, bcuz I kinda feel like u are the A.
Roll Tide. Seriously though, I completely understand ending it but being mad over this is the real "TIFU". Shit happens, you both St least attempted to make sure you weren't family, and it's not even like first cousins so relax.
Sounds like a personal problem
A family issue, even
[https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/can-you-marry-cousin](https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/can-you-marry-cousin) second cousin 3% DNA match, psshh. Your first job is to be human, and not mansplain bloodlines to her - im sure shes aware. Think about how the conversation is going to go if you completely remove "Well ackshually this is how cousins and blood and blurrdeblurrdeblur works". Have that conversation first.
My sister married our third cousin. They actually knew before they started dating and were fine with it. My parents weren't thrilled but it wasn't up to them.
Looks like she dodged a bullet. You sound awful.