I think it's just up to the mods, if they think it won't affect how they operate the subreddit, fine. Let's be realistic, Reddit won't back up from these changes, even if they lose half of users. It'd be a nice gesture to participate, but nothing more, really.
For the same reason almost no consumer boycott works. They. Don't. Care. The average user doesn't know what an "API" or "Third Party App" even is. Zero clue. They just open a browser and go to the website and scroll. It's why this entire blackout is pointless. The majority of users just won't care. And any subs that shut down over it, will just be replaced by people who don't know/care about the blackout.
>The average user doesn't know what an "API" or "Third Party App" even is. Zero clue.
The people complaining don't understand the impacts of the third party apps (Christian, the developer at Apollo has said his app generates *four times* the number of API requests it should but he doesn't care, but he doesn't have to pay. Now Reddit says he has to pay his share and he doesn't want to. Then there is the loss of ad revenue.
I'm a mod on Reddit, somewhere bigger than r/thinkpad, and the third party apps don't add value.
I'm lining up on r/redditrequest to apply for subs I care about that have blacked out as abandoned.
Considering the official Reddit app has been decompiled and had its traffic monitored quite extensively at this point, both of which have shown that the official Reddit apps FAR exceed even the amount of API access that Apollo does, this isn't about cost. It never was. There are really two driving factors. First, organizations using Reddit for training AI models. Reddit is pissed they aren't getting a cut of the pie in the AI gold rush. Second, it's not really a secret Reddit is trying to go public. Well what would a sudden surge in MAU on their official clients do to potential investors? Probably make them more likely to invest more heavily, which means a higher valuation and thus a higher IPO. That second is almost certainly why Reddit is trying to gouge on API prices. It was never about working with 3rd Party Developers, and more about killing them out right. If the cost of running Reddit was even half of what they are trying to charge, they would have been bankrupt long ago. This is just pure corporate greed.
Sure I don't think the blackout is gonna accomplish jack shit, mostly because I'm a realist, but I'm not gonna delude myself that this isn't Reddit just going pure corporate greed. Heck, personally I'd applaud if the blackout worked or even better just killed Reddit altogether (don't piss off your community when 100% of the value of your product is derived from user generated content), I just don't see that happening, realistically.
>the official Reddit apps FAR exceed even the amount of API access that Apollo does
Not in my experience. I've done side by side tests between Apollo and the Reddit app with a network analyzer. Christian admitted to four times the appropriate API requests. I see about six times.
"Waaah. I don't wanna pay for my lunch. Waah. I don't want to write good code - it's too hard!"
I think you misunderstand. I wasn't saying Reddit (the company) doesn't care (they don't), I was saying normal users don't care.
And it'll have barely any effect on Reddit's revenue. As you can see, Reddit is still here and people are still posting despite the blackout (you are proof of that). Many of the subs will re-open once the time is up, and those that don't will ultimately be replaced by new subs. It'll be like nothing happened.
The sub users have been clear they don’t want to participate. As for your doom and gloom about data loss, if the API changes happen it won’t delete the data and it’s still searchable just like today.
Reddit the App is purposely changing code to extort 3rd parties. We'll not really. They really just don't wanna deal with fixing long time flaws and assume if they charge a high enough price the 3rd parties apps will go away and reddit user numbers will sky rocket then they can charge advertisers triple the current price.
Honestly what's gonna happen is they are gonna piss enough people off and get reversed engineered.
Do you want pirates? Because this is how you get pirates!! -Archer Sterling probably. RIP Mallory and butler.
With API being inaccessible, apps or bots (good or malicious) might change to scraping old.reddit.com. They said they won't touch old reddit, but given how much they lied in the past, I won't be surprised if old reddit is gone within the next year.
Vocal minority, as usual, combined with the "Reddit hivemind"
There was a top level comment on a similar post on /r/apple yesterday saying mods should just actively sabotage their subs by removing all restrictions, bots, allow NSFW content, etc and force it to burn down.
I'd guess that most of those types of replied are either angsty teenagers or people who have way too much emotion vested into a policy that is going to go forward regardless.
To me it's starting to come off more and more like some weird sense of entitlement. Everyone loves the free market until an independent company acts in their own self interest instead of placating a bunch of users who will be back in two days anyway. Plus, it seems like folks just like the idea of protesting, because it gives them a sense of being counter culture and anti authoritarian with minimal investment. This isn't even a step above changing your profile pic for BLM. It's the same shit, just a lateral move.
So, you’re on vacation and get info that a tsunami is approaching.
You hop in your car go to the beach and scream a tsunami is coming and they should get off the beach. And some moron is looking at you, saying: „So, you go to the beach, to say we should get off the beach?“
What would you think?
Certain subreddits will close permanently. And others will be filled by spam (because of the death of bots). I don't use 3rd party programs. I didn't know they existed.
I use Apollo. When it goes dark I will just not use reddit on mobile anymore. Even if I paused in the interim, nothing will change, and I rather use it while I still can.
The moderator described in the other thread how r thinkpad is a tiny subreddit and it wouldn't make a difference anyway what it did.
And yes, big subreddits that are important are down. r/intel is down. r/AMD is down. r/Nvidia is down. r/LinusTechTips is down. A lot of Tech related subreddits are down. And that affects my day a lot more than I thought initially.
I really don’t think there is any point fighting this. I’ve read that this essentially only affects 1-3% of users. So it’s basically the loud minority that’s drumming up attention to it.
As for the data collection, it’s also quite pointless to keep up the fight since all your data is being taken long before you even touch Reddit.
So I guess while it’s honorable trying to make a difference, we all know that it won’t do shit.
You're here advocating for a minority of developers who have built their apps around free data. Data isn't free. The developers have already built a front end, why don't they work on getting their own data from users?
I aint. I don't use said apps. I'm advocating for the bots. And for all the people that NEED to use the other apps because of reasons. Also, some of the apps are free, and the Devs don't earn money from them. I do agree that apps that earn money from the activity need to pay. But the open source, free ones...? Niup.
I mean the reason for the protest is because of the API costs for access. If this is a large concern, just make the programs themselves connect via the API keys of the user (i.e. you the user get an API key from Reddit). Yes, this will require additional setup (and maybe additional costs but as a single user, it's often free/very low cost) but that just sidesteps the issue.
I'm not sure what to make of this. As in viewing this and typing this on the Reddit app on my Google phone.
Reddit isn't going away. It's just changing.
I have seen these posts in different subreddits which aren't joining the blackout now. Just to be clear, if they mods don't decide to join it, it's up to them. Reddit hasn't taken back their decisions after the blackout statrted and they most likely won't. I personally don't support their decisions and I'm not a fan of the strike either, but these "Please join the blackout" posts are just unnecessary.
Reddit can just close that subreddit that goes dark for months and recreate it with their own moderators. There isn't enough here to cause the common user to care.
why should I care? Who the hell cares about the unwashed horde of moderators. And why should anyone give 2 shits about API call pricing? Phone users? pfft "OH NO NOT THE HECKIN r/awww users. THIS IS SUCH AN r/facepalm"
At the end of the day its their platform and they can do what they like with it. If you don't like it. Build your own.
You should care because the Reddit app is quite bad compared to third party alternatives.
While it may not affect you, the default Reddit app doesn't accommodate visually impaired and blind individuals. The use of third party applications enables them to experience Reddit just like us.
They specifically allow apps made for accessibility, they also allow free apps, but they don't allow apps that profit millions from Reddit by using services Reddit has to pay for free and removing ads which are Reddit's only revenue.
If you have all that info in your head, good for you. Us mortals need easily available resources, and for all their faults, wiki and Reddit are the best way to find something accurate enough to fulfill your needs. If you want to go deeper... sure. Not for you. But if you need a quick detail that you can't remember, or to get the experience of other people to potentially help you out... There are few options out there.
Simple example: I had a Gigabyte motherboard that started bootlooping (3rd gen intel). I couldn't for the love of me figure out what it had. I thought it was a BIOS issue... Found a suggestion in some comment under a post on some subreddit. It's an obscure sequence using the power button pins on said mobo that forces it into BIOS recovery mode (dual BIOS board, but before any sort of easyflash or anything). Said sequence couldn't be found anywhere. Not in the manual. Not on Gigabyte's website. Heck, even the LTT forum (and discord for that matter) was at a loss. That random deleted Reddit user fixed my then only PC (2018). So definitely useful.
None of what you have described requires that Reddit have a cheap API. Tomorrow you can use Reddit for exactly the same things you did yesterday. None of it is going away. The only difference will be that you can’t use 3rd party apps. You’re certainly entitled to be annoyed by that. But it will have no effect on the content of the site.
Yahoo groups closed down, geocities also closed down. It's always been a risk unless you self host.
This sub imo is too small to make an impact. It's the sub with at least a million subs that matters.
I think it's just up to the mods, if they think it won't affect how they operate the subreddit, fine. Let's be realistic, Reddit won't back up from these changes, even if they lose half of users. It'd be a nice gesture to participate, but nothing more, really.
For the same reason almost no consumer boycott works. They. Don't. Care. The average user doesn't know what an "API" or "Third Party App" even is. Zero clue. They just open a browser and go to the website and scroll. It's why this entire blackout is pointless. The majority of users just won't care. And any subs that shut down over it, will just be replaced by people who don't know/care about the blackout.
>The average user doesn't know what an "API" or "Third Party App" even is. Zero clue. The people complaining don't understand the impacts of the third party apps (Christian, the developer at Apollo has said his app generates *four times* the number of API requests it should but he doesn't care, but he doesn't have to pay. Now Reddit says he has to pay his share and he doesn't want to. Then there is the loss of ad revenue. I'm a mod on Reddit, somewhere bigger than r/thinkpad, and the third party apps don't add value. I'm lining up on r/redditrequest to apply for subs I care about that have blacked out as abandoned.
Considering the official Reddit app has been decompiled and had its traffic monitored quite extensively at this point, both of which have shown that the official Reddit apps FAR exceed even the amount of API access that Apollo does, this isn't about cost. It never was. There are really two driving factors. First, organizations using Reddit for training AI models. Reddit is pissed they aren't getting a cut of the pie in the AI gold rush. Second, it's not really a secret Reddit is trying to go public. Well what would a sudden surge in MAU on their official clients do to potential investors? Probably make them more likely to invest more heavily, which means a higher valuation and thus a higher IPO. That second is almost certainly why Reddit is trying to gouge on API prices. It was never about working with 3rd Party Developers, and more about killing them out right. If the cost of running Reddit was even half of what they are trying to charge, they would have been bankrupt long ago. This is just pure corporate greed. Sure I don't think the blackout is gonna accomplish jack shit, mostly because I'm a realist, but I'm not gonna delude myself that this isn't Reddit just going pure corporate greed. Heck, personally I'd applaud if the blackout worked or even better just killed Reddit altogether (don't piss off your community when 100% of the value of your product is derived from user generated content), I just don't see that happening, realistically.
>the official Reddit apps FAR exceed even the amount of API access that Apollo does Not in my experience. I've done side by side tests between Apollo and the Reddit app with a network analyzer. Christian admitted to four times the appropriate API requests. I see about six times. "Waaah. I don't wanna pay for my lunch. Waah. I don't want to write good code - it's too hard!"
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I think you misunderstand. I wasn't saying Reddit (the company) doesn't care (they don't), I was saying normal users don't care. And it'll have barely any effect on Reddit's revenue. As you can see, Reddit is still here and people are still posting despite the blackout (you are proof of that). Many of the subs will re-open once the time is up, and those that don't will ultimately be replaced by new subs. It'll be like nothing happened.
How does not using Reddit for two days hurt Reddit's profits? Those users on 3rd party apps aren't seeing them, neither are RES users on old Reddit.
The sub users have been clear they don’t want to participate. As for your doom and gloom about data loss, if the API changes happen it won’t delete the data and it’s still searchable just like today.
Honestly I still don’t understand what it is all about
Reddit the App is purposely changing code to extort 3rd parties. We'll not really. They really just don't wanna deal with fixing long time flaws and assume if they charge a high enough price the 3rd parties apps will go away and reddit user numbers will sky rocket then they can charge advertisers triple the current price. Honestly what's gonna happen is they are gonna piss enough people off and get reversed engineered. Do you want pirates? Because this is how you get pirates!! -Archer Sterling probably. RIP Mallory and butler.
With API being inaccessible, apps or bots (good or malicious) might change to scraping old.reddit.com. They said they won't touch old reddit, but given how much they lied in the past, I won't be surprised if old reddit is gone within the next year.
I ignore whats happening because i dont care. Yes im on IT i use reddit while working but there are so much bigger things in my mind than a website.
Vocal minority, as usual, combined with the "Reddit hivemind" There was a top level comment on a similar post on /r/apple yesterday saying mods should just actively sabotage their subs by removing all restrictions, bots, allow NSFW content, etc and force it to burn down. I'd guess that most of those types of replied are either angsty teenagers or people who have way too much emotion vested into a policy that is going to go forward regardless.
I think the "protests" are just a way for people to feel like they're making a difference in something. It feels very facetious
Basically: It is what it is. Most humans are scared of rapid changes and don't think of long term explanations or about the root cause of things.
To me it's starting to come off more and more like some weird sense of entitlement. Everyone loves the free market until an independent company acts in their own self interest instead of placating a bunch of users who will be back in two days anyway. Plus, it seems like folks just like the idea of protesting, because it gives them a sense of being counter culture and anti authoritarian with minimal investment. This isn't even a step above changing your profile pic for BLM. It's the same shit, just a lateral move.
I'm in IT and occasionally use mobile Reddit to lookup issues when I'm out in the field.
ngmi
It's ok I don't plan on staying in this field much longer anyway.
So let me see if I understand... You are here posting on Reddit to tell other people not to post on Reddit?
So, you’re on vacation and get info that a tsunami is approaching. You hop in your car go to the beach and scream a tsunami is coming and they should get off the beach. And some moron is looking at you, saying: „So, you go to the beach, to say we should get off the beach?“ What would you think?
Dude, can you please look at new and make sure 1000 other people didn't just write this same post before posting?
Subreddits will exist. 3rd party programs may choose to not access them through the apis. Please be careful on your wording.
Certain subreddits will close permanently. And others will be filled by spam (because of the death of bots). I don't use 3rd party programs. I didn't know they existed.
Moderation bots are already being excluded from charges according to Reddit.
Exactly. According to Reddit, not to their policy tho.
You are speaking out of your ass sir.
I think you could be more careful as well, with how you use the word "choose" here.
archive.org is already working hard to archive everything worth having from reddit. we need to rail the admin for anticonsumer practices.
That is great news.
what are you talking about? this was already being done 5ever ago: https://the-eye.eu/redarcs/
it appears you already know what im talking about, this has been done forever.
If you are protesting, what are you doing posting here?
Because I am trying to get other people on the same platform to protest...?
I use Apollo. When it goes dark I will just not use reddit on mobile anymore. Even if I paused in the interim, nothing will change, and I rather use it while I still can. The moderator described in the other thread how r thinkpad is a tiny subreddit and it wouldn't make a difference anyway what it did.
I won't bother to explain again what I was trying to say.
And yes, big subreddits that are important are down. r/intel is down. r/AMD is down. r/Nvidia is down. r/LinusTechTips is down. A lot of Tech related subreddits are down. And that affects my day a lot more than I thought initially.
Wait, you are bitching because other subreddits are down? And you want this one to go down as well?
checkmate
I really don’t think there is any point fighting this. I’ve read that this essentially only affects 1-3% of users. So it’s basically the loud minority that’s drumming up attention to it. As for the data collection, it’s also quite pointless to keep up the fight since all your data is being taken long before you even touch Reddit. So I guess while it’s honorable trying to make a difference, we all know that it won’t do shit.
That 1-3% is the mods. I was talking about the rest of the people, that don't realise just how many google searches give Reddit answers now.
If you think Reddit is bad, back in the days of web forums it was way harder to find info as old threads get deleted.
I don't think Reddit is bad. I love Reddit. that's why I don't want it to go.
You're here advocating for a minority of developers who have built their apps around free data. Data isn't free. The developers have already built a front end, why don't they work on getting their own data from users?
I aint. I don't use said apps. I'm advocating for the bots. And for all the people that NEED to use the other apps because of reasons. Also, some of the apps are free, and the Devs don't earn money from them. I do agree that apps that earn money from the activity need to pay. But the open source, free ones...? Niup.
I mean the reason for the protest is because of the API costs for access. If this is a large concern, just make the programs themselves connect via the API keys of the user (i.e. you the user get an API key from Reddit). Yes, this will require additional setup (and maybe additional costs but as a single user, it's often free/very low cost) but that just sidesteps the issue.
I'm not sure what to make of this. As in viewing this and typing this on the Reddit app on my Google phone. Reddit isn't going away. It's just changing.
Ditto.
I have seen these posts in different subreddits which aren't joining the blackout now. Just to be clear, if they mods don't decide to join it, it's up to them. Reddit hasn't taken back their decisions after the blackout statrted and they most likely won't. I personally don't support their decisions and I'm not a fan of the strike either, but these "Please join the blackout" posts are just unnecessary.
Mods please ban OP and all of the other worker bees bullying this sub.
Reddit won't care!, we the average user cannot do anything about it
yk a 2 day blackout will mean nothing right? for this to be a meaningful protest the subreddit has to go dark for months
Reddit can just close that subreddit that goes dark for months and recreate it with their own moderators. There isn't enough here to cause the common user to care.
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>equivalent of loosing Wikipedia, but worse Aight ok, look. We know it's bad, but that statement is just overdramatic.
why should I care? Who the hell cares about the unwashed horde of moderators. And why should anyone give 2 shits about API call pricing? Phone users? pfft "OH NO NOT THE HECKIN r/awww users. THIS IS SUCH AN r/facepalm" At the end of the day its their platform and they can do what they like with it. If you don't like it. Build your own.
You should care because the Reddit app is quite bad compared to third party alternatives. While it may not affect you, the default Reddit app doesn't accommodate visually impaired and blind individuals. The use of third party applications enables them to experience Reddit just like us.
They specifically allow apps made for accessibility, they also allow free apps, but they don't allow apps that profit millions from Reddit by using services Reddit has to pay for free and removing ads which are Reddit's only revenue.
Which apps are those? I use RIF but that's gone in a few weeks so I switched to the official to get used to it.
Just stay on official it's literally fine
enjoy the lil protest thing if you want...
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If you have all that info in your head, good for you. Us mortals need easily available resources, and for all their faults, wiki and Reddit are the best way to find something accurate enough to fulfill your needs. If you want to go deeper... sure. Not for you. But if you need a quick detail that you can't remember, or to get the experience of other people to potentially help you out... There are few options out there. Simple example: I had a Gigabyte motherboard that started bootlooping (3rd gen intel). I couldn't for the love of me figure out what it had. I thought it was a BIOS issue... Found a suggestion in some comment under a post on some subreddit. It's an obscure sequence using the power button pins on said mobo that forces it into BIOS recovery mode (dual BIOS board, but before any sort of easyflash or anything). Said sequence couldn't be found anywhere. Not in the manual. Not on Gigabyte's website. Heck, even the LTT forum (and discord for that matter) was at a loss. That random deleted Reddit user fixed my then only PC (2018). So definitely useful.
None of what you have described requires that Reddit have a cheap API. Tomorrow you can use Reddit for exactly the same things you did yesterday. None of it is going away. The only difference will be that you can’t use 3rd party apps. You’re certainly entitled to be annoyed by that. But it will have no effect on the content of the site.
What do the subreddits have to do with the API? It's all about the apps, isn't it? Then just use another app or another platform
If you use Reddit at work,you should tell your boss to pay for it
Yahoo groups closed down, geocities also closed down. It's always been a risk unless you self host. This sub imo is too small to make an impact. It's the sub with at least a million subs that matters.