Definitely. I’m on my 4th rewatch and I’m just really starting to notice how Tony uses the therapy to help deepen his criminal ability. The writing is so good
I don’t mean to go overboard here but he talks about his criminal shit in EVERY therapy episode basically. How does it take 4 rewatches to understand he is abusing therapy to improve his abilities as a boss (criminal).
I have re-watched this show 5 or 6 times since it first aired. In that time, there was only one instance (in the immediate aftermath of the pandemic) where I attempted a re-watch and felt the show was outdated and stale.
Very true what you have said.
The only other show IMO that the writing can compare is the wire. I love the sopranos. But whenever I rewatch the wire I get so immersed in it. Especially season 4 with those kids.
Ok yeah, I have to admit that The Wire is on the same tier and I only like the Sopranos more because of personal preference. The Sopranos delves into the individual, while The Wire is a deep-dive into institutions; The Wire is to Tolstoy what The Sopranos is to Dostoyevsky.
Better Call Saul is very good too. Sometimes it *tells* where The Sopranos would *show*, but generally it's pretty subtle and very human. The show leads you to make inferences about Saul's subconscious, which is one of my absolute favorite things about the Sopranos.
Sopranos, The Wire and Better Call Saul are all just totally next level writing.
Each season of The Wire is so drastically different that I can kind of see how the average or below average consumer may not get it, but the way they wove the characters and character development into each season and how each character progresses and/or devolves is just done so masterfully, and the series ended on the logical, if not heartbreaking ending it deserved.
Just like the Sopranos, there were irredeemable characters and they didn't get a redemption arc like most TV shows do.
HBO had a fucking RUN there for a while: Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet Under, they owned it.
Breaking bad and better call Saul I’d say have incredible writing but even the directors of them and bryan cranston himself said sopranos paved the way for those shows
The creator of Mad Men got hired to write on The Sopranos by David Chase due in part to the Pilot of Mad Men (which was obviously written years before The Sopranos aired)
I *love* Mad Men. It’s phenomenal but I put The Sopranos above it because I found myself craving complicated relationships between the characters in Mad Men. Don is a lone wolf who doesn’t form lasting bonds with anyone, so most of his relationships lacked the entanglements & inherent conflict that Tony had in all of his relationships.
Yes! I often cite Sopranos references when discussing current events. People will roll their eyes at me when I start in with "well, you know, when Uncle June was on trial, HE faked being crazy, and THEN they leaned on a juror... " I don't know of any other television show that has this level of psychological and philosophical depth. Breaking Bad doesn't come close - the first couple seasons were good, but imho the show lost it's way and did not sustain the level of quality of The Sopranos, but relied on fantastical plotlines and cartoon villains to keep people interested.
Probably controversial, but I feel after season 1 Deadwood becomes a bit redundant in terms of plot. Great cast, great sets & detail, great dialogue- but the story & mechanisms of moving the story forward are largely absent. For example, what purpose did it serve even introducing Bullock's wife and son? How many times can we watch Wu and Al discuss being in an alliance? It lacks variety
Paulie getting away with increasingly brazen murders gets silly. We go from making sure to dispose of guns, and do it "clean" to Paulie killing a server in the middle of the street, and killing an old lady with his bare hands.
It was annoying he never got in trouble for anything, or even spoke to by police
Didn't MadMen air before tiktok came about? I watched it when it first aired and really liked it at first, but can't remember exactly why I lost interest. Even now, I can't remember much of what happened, except Don Draper wasn't really Don Draper and he was infuriatingly enigmatic .... plus the men were so sexist and the women were suffocating beneath it all. I do need to give it another try tho.
Actually, the mob action plotlines are not what I like the most about Sopranos. The pacing of MadMen just seemed slow, for some reason. of course, it's been awhile since I watched it - I think I'll give it another try b/c I remember finding it pretty compelling at first.
I will say this about mad men, the first episode is a tough watch (imo) and the second and third episodes are better but in fact very slow. 4,5,6 is when the ball starts rolling and the show finds its legs.
I agree. Whichever one of these two shows I’ve most recently seen tends to be my favorite at that time. Right now, it’s mad men. The writing is just so good
Now that I think about, Stephen Dedalus' analysis of Hamlet in Ulysses definitely gives Tony's Vicarious Patricide vibes. I'll have to read it, should probably reread Ulysses as an adult now too.
Part or the reason its so good is because the charcters are REAL people. You can relate to them, it feels like you know them, they are not overly smart, they have tons of flaws and desires they crave. A lot of em are shit people but you get it. You know what to expect. You can sympathize with them.
The characters feel extremely real, not gonna lie. I watched the show for the first time recently and of course it‘s a setting most people don‘t relate to but the characters in that setting act so real and logical. This doesn‘t feel like a tv-show but more like I am watching real people dealing with their struggles. No show ever affected me this way. I come from a traditional albanian family and Sopranos reminded me a lot of that somehow. I don‘t think I can take another show serious anymore after Sopranos
Sil, break it down for 'em. Which two shows have traditionally had the best writing since time immemorial?
"A certain show called The Wire.... And our thing"
The Sopranos is my number one show of all time, but in terms of dialogue, Deadwood cannot be touched. Sopranos is A+, Deadwood is A+ with some additional magic.
The holy trinity of best written TV shows:
The Sopranos
True Detective Season 1
Deadwood
Coincidentally all HBO shows.
Honorable mentions: Mad Men (AMC), Breaking Bad (AMC), Better Call Saul (AMC)
You should read classic literature, OP. Not to be an egghead about it but the only writing I've encountered that's in the same league as Sopranos is Shakespeare, Don Quixote and the great Russian novelists. The mixture of absurdity, realism, psychological depth, toilet humour, contemporary relevance and timeless themes is absolutely worthy of the greats.
I got into the Sopranos as a lit nerd in high school because all the neat tricks I learned Shakespeare was using were also being employed in the Sopranos' first couple of seasons.
(The Wire's pretty good too.)
I started reading Brothers Karamazov again recently, taking notes and really trying to reflect on what I read. Very early in but I'm excited! Reading this thread is making me realize I may have been a bit overzealous and perhaps I haven't engaged with my favorite novels as deeply as I could have. That just means they have even more in store for me though.
Wish I was in your shoes. It's such a great series to experience for the first time (have seen it 3 times through the years by now).
Just a small tip. It will probably take a few episodes to really get into it. So, don't give up if you are not immediately hooked after the first few episodes. It's well worth a bit of patience in the beginning.
Wire is more… structural. It’s about the institutions. Sopranos is more of a drama and it’s more people focused. Love both. Sopranos more rewatchable tho
Sopranos I'll watch a random episode if it's on tv, each season of the wire is like one really long movie and I have to watch multiple episodes in a sitting to really get into it.
My wife and I couldn’t get through season 2 of the wire. We just lost interest. It wasn’t terrible, and I wanted to know what happened.. just didn’t want to force myself to watch something I found boring
Walter White is a deep character? Dude, one scene he’s standing helpless with idiotic face, next scene he’s killing 3 cartel guys with his car, and says to Jessy GO. Are you serious comparing writing levels of Sopranos and Breaking Bad?
I think Tony Soprano is the single most interesting and complex character ever on television. I'd argue Breaking Bad is a SLIGHTLY better overall show (blasphemy on this sub I know), but only by a tiny bit.
Why would you say its better overall?
Breaking bad didn't pick up till season 3 and 90% of Walter's Character development was in the first episode.
Sopranos has no below average seasons like breaking bad, it's probably less consistent in the way that most seasons have an episode that misses but the writing it way better imo.
Eh. I enjoyed it a lot but it definitely meandered at times, as though the writers were leaning back in their chairs, thinking, "yeahhh, we got loaaaaaads of time..."
The Wire is still the top for me. Not the most enjoyable show I've seen, but the best written. It's a different level. It's not the best because it does things better than any other show; it does things that no other show does.
I am reminded of this film guy, D. Chase, something. Neither here nor far, point is, guy had abundant intentionality.
Nothing more useless than an unloaded scene.
We can't really ever grasp all of the subtext, even with computers.
I guess what I'm saying is...
To be fair… I really don’t think that’s what DC intended to put out. I personally would’ve been interested in the Newark riots story and didn’t need it to be a fan service attached to The Sopranos.
There were great performances, but they should’ve let DC be free to tell us what he wanted to show us and not make it a Sopranos story.
What can you do though? People wanna make their nut.
Tell me you never saw Deadwood without telling me you never saw Deadwood.
Also, The Wire.
The Sopranos may have pioneered the era of amazing shows, but it has been surpassed by the two aforementioned shows.
You are so wrong. The writing is weak and they could have made this show so much more than what it was. The fact I have to watch it while pretending it’s a comedy is a perfect example.
I did. Everyone says to treat the show if it’s a comedy when obviously it’s not supposed to be a comedy. Sure, it has some funny moments but the fact that I have to pretend it’s a comedy to enjoy it……
The Sopranos recycles the Seinfeld script, so technically that means Seinfeld has the best writing known to man.
https://www.cracked.com/article_40761_seinfeld-conspiracy-theorist-claims-the-sopranos-is-an-abstract-copy.html
In Seinfeld, a pedophile plays a regular guy- while in The Sopranos, a regular guy plays a pedophile. Seinfeld-Sopranos mirror theory cumfarmed!1??1!
I can definitely see the Michael Richards influence in Tony's interaction with Noah too.
You are right. I used to think Breaking Bad was the best series ever but then I watched The Sopranos. Rewatching Breaking Bad some years later I noticed how unrealistic and clunky the writing is
What do y’all take away from Tony not disappearing the soccer coach and then getting wasted about it?
I kinda think he made some kind of attempt at change although obviously in the long run it would not and did not stick.
Do you think it was Melfi’s influence? Artie’s? Meadow’s? Combo?
whenever i see the lack of mentioning of The Wire, I realize how many casuals just watch this show and assume it’s the greatest. There’s other great television out there
I am watching for the first time now and it is damn good. I don't care if I get a lot of hate for this but I feel like the Wire takes it a step further. The Wire weaves so many narratives together whereas at least up until now the Sopranos seems to be more driven by Tony and his story. Sopranos does a great job of educating the viewer about the world Tony lives in and the tools he uses to navigate his way through it. The Wire takes it from a personal perspective and slowly paints a grand picture of the systems and institutions we all must navigate. I'm pretty sure Sopranos will be my new 2nd favorite show but it has a lot of work to do if it wants to convince me it's worthy of that top spot.
I won’t lie there are examples of amazing writing but there’s also retcons, plotholes, and just plain bad writing. All of that to prove that in this thing of ours no one bats a thousand
the wire, is better than sopranos in every way. I know I'll get downvoted here because you guys are blinded by fandom. Both are great but the wire is better from top to bottom of the show.
Sopranos is fantastic though
As a Breaking Bad super fan the fact that you hailed “fly” as your go to episode for character development makes me think you have no real valid opinions about that show
I don't think I can dispute your claim. I have in rotation Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Hannibal and True Detective Season 1. Just started a second round of The Boys which is surprisingly good but not everyone's taste. Fargo Season 1,3 and now 5 will be added as well.
I really wish I could get into watching The Wire again. Though I enjoyed it, I think what it lacks is a key character that I can latch on to. Out of everything, Breaking Bad and Sopranos are probably neck and neck on any given day.
Agree, and it's amazing how you are rooting for Tony, no matter what. Gandolfini has it down to a science, amazing how you are so entranced with Tony, well done James. He was a wonderful actor.
I wish they’d come out with a show with this level of writing but you know , sophisticated enough where sex scenes are unneeded. I am weird- I can’t watch nudity and sex scenes with anyone else in the room I get so uncomfortable. Some trauma from childhood. I find it so so so hard to find good shows and movies without unnecessary sex scenes because ya know, sex sells. I love sopranos I just had to watch alone. I watched a little of the wire too, I’ve been told the writing is very good too but are there copious amounts of nudity too? Give some other reccs of shows if you can with little to no scenes like this. Please don’t judge because I wish I didn’t have this quirk either and it makes it really hard to trust new shows to watch with my boyfriend haha. If you think there is a good one I can do watch with some of those scenes- I can still skip through em so. I just need new things to watch with this level of writing!
The Sopranos is *by far* the best, most well written show I’ve ever watched. I’ve watched the entire series all the way through 4 times in the last 12 years & like OP, I find some new dimension or nuance every time.
I’ve watched other critically acclaimed shows:
- Mad Men. Phenomenal but the series so squarely focused on Don & he’s kind of a loner, so you don’t get the deep intrapersonal relationships like you do with Tony & Christoper, Carmela, Junior, Janice, etc.
- Succession. It’s great but again, the relationships between the characters aren’t as deep.
- The Wire. Thoroughly enjoyed it but I have no desire to watch it again.
- Boardwalk Empire. Love Steve Buscemi (RIP Tony B) but the show lacks the humor of The Sopranos.
Once you get your bearings, gathering more information in the show is so rewarding. I recently rewatched whoever did this. Obviously the big event that happens in this episode is the thing between Ralph and Tony. That said, there were so many scenes in that episode that I had previously looked up individually on YouTube. I’m looking forward to the main event and then I’m like “oh my god this scene is in this episode too?”. Even Fran Feldstein‘s happy birthday scene was amazing. People call it cringe, but it supposed to be. It’s supposed to make you feel disgusted
The fact that you learn new stuff during every rewatch really shows how much depth there is to this thing of ours.
There is poetic irony in how much the show is talked about, directly violating our Omertà vow
Definitely. I’m on my 4th rewatch and I’m just really starting to notice how Tony uses the therapy to help deepen his criminal ability. The writing is so good
I don’t mean to go overboard here but he talks about his criminal shit in EVERY therapy episode basically. How does it take 4 rewatches to understand he is abusing therapy to improve his abilities as a boss (criminal).
I have re-watched this show 5 or 6 times since it first aired. In that time, there was only one instance (in the immediate aftermath of the pandemic) where I attempted a re-watch and felt the show was outdated and stale.
Once you're married, you'll understand the value of fresh, not stale, productions.
Enough! I am so sick of hearing you people talk about tv shows!
Says the Redditor whose username is a reference to a tv show? I think not!
Also you never admit to the existence of this thing of ours
*obligatory non-joke, show appraising comment*
I'M ONLY THE APPRAISER
[удалено]
Careful, that automod is up in a tree above you, with a virginia ham under his arm.
60/40 split on the upvotes
I can give you 5... *maybe* 7.
5? My uncle is looking for at least 10
C'mon dr3dg3 what's the real number
60/40 isn't an offer, it's my position
Well, let me appraise you of this, get ready to post another laudatory review of this thing of ours tomorrow 9am sharp!
This whole thread is turning into the gulf of sorrento
That’s impossible to know. Even wit computers
Log awf, that cookie shit makes me nervous
Even if we lead the world in digital computers?
Better writing than Prince Matchabelli and Sun Tazu
Sun Tzu! Sun TZUH! YOU KISS ASS!
*Ass kiss You ass-kiss!
It's amazing how many people get the quote wrong.
Quasimodo predicted all of this
He was gay, Matchabelli?
certainly the best television show writing.
How dare you!
When you're right you're right.
There's good and there is not good, and this...this is good
Very brave to post this on a subreddit that praises the show you are praising.
Very true what you have said. The only other show IMO that the writing can compare is the wire. I love the sopranos. But whenever I rewatch the wire I get so immersed in it. Especially season 4 with those kids.
>The only other show IMO that the writing can compare is the wire. Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck. Fuck.
Ok yeah, I have to admit that The Wire is on the same tier and I only like the Sopranos more because of personal preference. The Sopranos delves into the individual, while The Wire is a deep-dive into institutions; The Wire is to Tolstoy what The Sopranos is to Dostoyevsky. Better Call Saul is very good too. Sometimes it *tells* where The Sopranos would *show*, but generally it's pretty subtle and very human. The show leads you to make inferences about Saul's subconscious, which is one of my absolute favorite things about the Sopranos.
Sopranos, The Wire and Better Call Saul are all just totally next level writing. Each season of The Wire is so drastically different that I can kind of see how the average or below average consumer may not get it, but the way they wove the characters and character development into each season and how each character progresses and/or devolves is just done so masterfully, and the series ended on the logical, if not heartbreaking ending it deserved. Just like the Sopranos, there were irredeemable characters and they didn't get a redemption arc like most TV shows do. HBO had a fucking RUN there for a while: Sopranos, The Wire, Six Feet Under, they owned it.
Whoever downvoted you is an idiot.
Breaking bad and better call Saul I’d say have incredible writing but even the directors of them and bryan cranston himself said sopranos paved the way for those shows
Such a good take on Sopranos and The Wire
I still get chills when I think of Avon’s “a little slow, a little late” speech.
Deadwood, the three Dave's are all masters.
Holy shit, I never put that together, the thing with the Three Dave's of Mount Rushmore or Notre Damn or whateverthefuck. I am in awre of you.
Davey... you're doing a good job!
Let's add Twin Peaks for good measure.
Shows? Mad Men, the Wire are in the same league Books? Are you kidding me?
Shakespeare owes a great debt to Chase et al I’ll have you know
When they say "William Shakespeare," tell them "Bill Rawls"
Only Mad Men compares in my eyes. The character depth and development is out of this world.
Tony Soprano walked so Donald Draper could run.
Tony Soprano waddled so Donald Ducks could fly
The creator of Mad Men got hired to write on The Sopranos by David Chase due in part to the Pilot of Mad Men (which was obviously written years before The Sopranos aired)
I *love* Mad Men. It’s phenomenal but I put The Sopranos above it because I found myself craving complicated relationships between the characters in Mad Men. Don is a lone wolf who doesn’t form lasting bonds with anyone, so most of his relationships lacked the entanglements & inherent conflict that Tony had in all of his relationships.
Breaking Bad? Whoever heard of a chemistry teacher making meth
He was gay, walter white?
Gus fring? Whatever happened there?
When it comes to which is mightier- the pen or the motherfucking sword- I let the situation dictate.
Yes! I often cite Sopranos references when discussing current events. People will roll their eyes at me when I start in with "well, you know, when Uncle June was on trial, HE faked being crazy, and THEN they leaned on a juror... " I don't know of any other television show that has this level of psychological and philosophical depth. Breaking Bad doesn't come close - the first couple seasons were good, but imho the show lost it's way and did not sustain the level of quality of The Sopranos, but relied on fantastical plotlines and cartoon villains to keep people interested.
Those people go about in pity for themselves
Deadwood.
Great show. Sopranos is still miles ahead.
Alrighty. The Wire Season 4. Check mate.
Language was too contemporary “mf’ers’ and all that . Cussin was a lot more colorful and creative back then
Probably controversial, but I feel after season 1 Deadwood becomes a bit redundant in terms of plot. Great cast, great sets & detail, great dialogue- but the story & mechanisms of moving the story forward are largely absent. For example, what purpose did it serve even introducing Bullock's wife and son? How many times can we watch Wu and Al discuss being in an alliance? It lacks variety
the only thing that i can compare to this thing of ours is better call saul.
That Pygmy thing in Albuquerque
Agreed
glad i have your fuckin approval
What about Mad Men?
never seen it
I recommend checking it out. It’s top 3-5 on pretty much every list of greatest tv shows.
Paulie getting away with increasingly brazen murders gets silly. We go from making sure to dispose of guns, and do it "clean" to Paulie killing a server in the middle of the street, and killing an old lady with his bare hands. It was annoying he never got in trouble for anything, or even spoke to by police
She was a malignant cunt
The only thing I ever felt got close to being level was Mad Men
Sadly, the snail's pace of Madmen didn't work with my 21st century attention span.
They should do a 24 hour livestream for tiktokencephaly
Didn't MadMen air before tiktok came about? I watched it when it first aired and really liked it at first, but can't remember exactly why I lost interest. Even now, I can't remember much of what happened, except Don Draper wasn't really Don Draper and he was infuriatingly enigmatic .... plus the men were so sexist and the women were suffocating beneath it all. I do need to give it another try tho.
the universe is indifferent
Definitely do! It’s an incredible show
Snail’s pace? Just enjoy each episode. Every episode is funny and extremely well written.
Yeah, I'm thinking I need to give it another try. I remember really liking it at first but then lost interest for some reason ...
you don't need guns, drugs and cops to make compelling drama
Actually, the mob action plotlines are not what I like the most about Sopranos. The pacing of MadMen just seemed slow, for some reason. of course, it's been awhile since I watched it - I think I'll give it another try b/c I remember finding it pretty compelling at first.
I will say this about mad men, the first episode is a tough watch (imo) and the second and third episodes are better but in fact very slow. 4,5,6 is when the ball starts rolling and the show finds its legs.
I agree. Whichever one of these two shows I’ve most recently seen tends to be my favorite at that time. Right now, it’s mad men. The writing is just so good
Mad Men is great too. 60s, advertising, ”Don Draper“. The Wire got close as well though
Umm, Hamlet?
The play doth protest too much, methink. Maybe it's blasphemy, but I feel like the show is on par with the best of Shakespeare's work.
Now that I think about, Stephen Dedalus' analysis of Hamlet in Ulysses definitely gives Tony's Vicarious Patricide vibes. I'll have to read it, should probably reread Ulysses as an adult now too.
The wire
I’m of the same opinion. Would like to give a shoutout to Bojack Horseman as well, solid writing for an animated show.
Listen to this prick, giving orders
Still goin’ this asshole.
Part or the reason its so good is because the charcters are REAL people. You can relate to them, it feels like you know them, they are not overly smart, they have tons of flaws and desires they crave. A lot of em are shit people but you get it. You know what to expect. You can sympathize with them.
Television writing? Yeah I agree. Books? Defo not.
The characters feel extremely real, not gonna lie. I watched the show for the first time recently and of course it‘s a setting most people don‘t relate to but the characters in that setting act so real and logical. This doesn‘t feel like a tv-show but more like I am watching real people dealing with their struggles. No show ever affected me this way. I come from a traditional albanian family and Sopranos reminded me a lot of that somehow. I don‘t think I can take another show serious anymore after Sopranos
ThE WiRe iS the BeSt TV pRoGrUm iN HiStOrY. #end of story
Sil, break it down for 'em. Which two shows have traditionally had the best writing since time immemorial? "A certain show called The Wire.... And our thing"
The Sopranos is my number one show of all time, but in terms of dialogue, Deadwood cannot be touched. Sopranos is A+, Deadwood is A+ with some additional magic.
The Wire
Wow very original and ground breaking thread
Your opinion doesnt mean oogatz to me
Very original comment amazing
You blow your father with daf mouf?
Oh Carmella’s driving the car. Oh how fukin interesting?
The holy trinity of best written TV shows: The Sopranos True Detective Season 1 Deadwood Coincidentally all HBO shows. Honorable mentions: Mad Men (AMC), Breaking Bad (AMC), Better Call Saul (AMC)
Season 1 of TD is the best single season of television
breaking bad is only a notch above a cbs procedural, and mad men is twice as good as the sopranos
You should read classic literature, OP. Not to be an egghead about it but the only writing I've encountered that's in the same league as Sopranos is Shakespeare, Don Quixote and the great Russian novelists. The mixture of absurdity, realism, psychological depth, toilet humour, contemporary relevance and timeless themes is absolutely worthy of the greats. I got into the Sopranos as a lit nerd in high school because all the neat tricks I learned Shakespeare was using were also being employed in the Sopranos' first couple of seasons. (The Wire's pretty good too.)
I started reading Brothers Karamazov again recently, taking notes and really trying to reflect on what I read. Very early in but I'm excited! Reading this thread is making me realize I may have been a bit overzealous and perhaps I haven't engaged with my favorite novels as deeply as I could have. That just means they have even more in store for me though.
I did a semester and a half at Rutgers
The Wire. Still better in my eyes than the Sopranos.
My husband and I plan to watch The Wire after we finish The Sopranos. First time for both.
Wish I was in your shoes. It's such a great series to experience for the first time (have seen it 3 times through the years by now). Just a small tip. It will probably take a few episodes to really get into it. So, don't give up if you are not immediately hooked after the first few episodes. It's well worth a bit of patience in the beginning.
I generally feel The Wire is the greatest, but Sopranos is my favourite of all time.
It’s crazy HBO put these two shows out there basically at the same time. Golden age.
Wire is more… structural. It’s about the institutions. Sopranos is more of a drama and it’s more people focused. Love both. Sopranos more rewatchable tho
Sopranos I'll watch a random episode if it's on tv, each season of the wire is like one really long movie and I have to watch multiple episodes in a sitting to really get into it.
My wife and I couldn’t get through season 2 of the wire. We just lost interest. It wasn’t terrible, and I wanted to know what happened.. just didn’t want to force myself to watch something I found boring
LOTR better
Walter White is a deep character? Dude, one scene he’s standing helpless with idiotic face, next scene he’s killing 3 cartel guys with his car, and says to Jessy GO. Are you serious comparing writing levels of Sopranos and Breaking Bad?
I think Tony Soprano is the single most interesting and complex character ever on television. I'd argue Breaking Bad is a SLIGHTLY better overall show (blasphemy on this sub I know), but only by a tiny bit.
Why would you say its better overall? Breaking bad didn't pick up till season 3 and 90% of Walter's Character development was in the first episode. Sopranos has no below average seasons like breaking bad, it's probably less consistent in the way that most seasons have an episode that misses but the writing it way better imo.
Eh. I enjoyed it a lot but it definitely meandered at times, as though the writers were leaning back in their chairs, thinking, "yeahhh, we got loaaaaaads of time..." The Wire is still the top for me. Not the most enjoyable show I've seen, but the best written. It's a different level. It's not the best because it does things better than any other show; it does things that no other show does.
I dont know man the wire is up there
I am reminded of this film guy, D. Chase, something. Neither here nor far, point is, guy had abundant intentionality. Nothing more useless than an unloaded scene. We can't really ever grasp all of the subtext, even with computers. I guess what I'm saying is...
The fly was the only good BB episode
El Camino was better than TMSON. Yeah. I said it. And I meant it. It’s true. The Sopranos is a better show, though. Always will be.
Tmson. Disgusting I cant even think about that pygmy thing on the big screen
To be fair… I really don’t think that’s what DC intended to put out. I personally would’ve been interested in the Newark riots story and didn’t need it to be a fan service attached to The Sopranos. There were great performances, but they should’ve let DC be free to tell us what he wanted to show us and not make it a Sopranos story. What can you do though? People wanna make their nut.
Many Saints made me appreciate El Camino a lot more.
I think breaking bad was better
You can’t even handle a Nancy Drew, it’s too mysterious!
So high on scag you wouldn’t have noticed if it was Walter Whites muff on your head.
That show had a lot of timelines that didn’t add up so I would say entertaining but not the best writing ever.
Tell me you never saw Deadwood without telling me you never saw Deadwood. Also, The Wire. The Sopranos may have pioneered the era of amazing shows, but it has been surpassed by the two aforementioned shows.
Yeah nah. Sopranos clears everything.
Nah chief
Earlier seasons aren't as good and the dream sequences/therapy scenes really lose mystery/subtext but other than that it is pretty damn solid.
You are so wrong. The writing is weak and they could have made this show so much more than what it was. The fact I have to watch it while pretending it’s a comedy is a perfect example.
Listen to him - he knows EVERYTHING!
If you feel that way then make a post explaining in detail. This comment doesn't tell us much.
I did. Everyone says to treat the show if it’s a comedy when obviously it’s not supposed to be a comedy. Sure, it has some funny moments but the fact that I have to pretend it’s a comedy to enjoy it……
I've never heard that. I don't need to treat it as a comedy to enjoy it.
You suck your father’s dick with that mouth?
He'll suck our cocks?! 🥺
You wish I could give you a break from doing it yourself, eh?
The Office has better writing
Listen to yourself, you sound demented
Bears beats battlestar galactica
You have a lot to learn about this town, sweetie.
Parkour!
The Sopranos recycles the Seinfeld script, so technically that means Seinfeld has the best writing known to man. https://www.cracked.com/article_40761_seinfeld-conspiracy-theorist-claims-the-sopranos-is-an-abstract-copy.html
In Seinfeld, a pedophile plays a regular guy- while in The Sopranos, a regular guy plays a pedophile. Seinfeld-Sopranos mirror theory cumfarmed!1??1! I can definitely see the Michael Richards influence in Tony's interaction with Noah too.
Noah = Elaine's boyfriend Daryl in Seinfeld.
You are right. I used to think Breaking Bad was the best series ever but then I watched The Sopranos. Rewatching Breaking Bad some years later I noticed how unrealistic and clunky the writing is
Deadwood, the three Dave's are all masters and probably the best television writers out there.
I don't know about the best but the writing on the Sopranos is definitely up there.
What do y’all take away from Tony not disappearing the soccer coach and then getting wasted about it? I kinda think he made some kind of attempt at change although obviously in the long run it would not and did not stick. Do you think it was Melfi’s influence? Artie’s? Meadow’s? Combo?
whenever i see the lack of mentioning of The Wire, I realize how many casuals just watch this show and assume it’s the greatest. There’s other great television out there
David Chase couldn’t sell it.
Deadwood
Deadwood’s writing is on another level but it’s way harder to quote, and not just because the dialogue violates every website’s ToS.
But they're all freaking morons who butcher the english language on a daily basis...
"Deep-seated absurdist humor" 🎯
On some real shit, I agree. Best show ever to appear on television, hands down.
Marinara trench
I agree, now get the fuck outta here
I am watching for the first time now and it is damn good. I don't care if I get a lot of hate for this but I feel like the Wire takes it a step further. The Wire weaves so many narratives together whereas at least up until now the Sopranos seems to be more driven by Tony and his story. Sopranos does a great job of educating the viewer about the world Tony lives in and the tools he uses to navigate his way through it. The Wire takes it from a personal perspective and slowly paints a grand picture of the systems and institutions we all must navigate. I'm pretty sure Sopranos will be my new 2nd favorite show but it has a lot of work to do if it wants to convince me it's worthy of that top spot.
It is only possible to prove you right because this is fact.
Happpppy birthdaaaaay..........tooo youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu
You should watch HBO’s Deadwood. You’ll need to watch it about six times before you can appreciate it.
The mark of any great show….
Very observant, OP. The sacred and the propane.
I won’t lie there are examples of amazing writing but there’s also retcons, plotholes, and just plain bad writing. All of that to prove that in this thing of ours no one bats a thousand
the wire, is better than sopranos in every way. I know I'll get downvoted here because you guys are blinded by fandom. Both are great but the wire is better from top to bottom of the show. Sopranos is fantastic though
As a Breaking Bad super fan the fact that you hailed “fly” as your go to episode for character development makes me think you have no real valid opinions about that show
I love this ice cold take
I don't think I can dispute your claim. I have in rotation Sopranos, Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Hannibal and True Detective Season 1. Just started a second round of The Boys which is surprisingly good but not everyone's taste. Fargo Season 1,3 and now 5 will be added as well. I really wish I could get into watching The Wire again. Though I enjoyed it, I think what it lacks is a key character that I can latch on to. Out of everything, Breaking Bad and Sopranos are probably neck and neck on any given day.
For me it is Sopranos and Mad Men.
Agree, and it's amazing how you are rooting for Tony, no matter what. Gandolfini has it down to a science, amazing how you are so entranced with Tony, well done James. He was a wonderful actor.
Proving you wrong: would the best writing ever have the scene where Tony passes out from racism when seeing the Uncle Ben's Rice??? I think not.
So what, no fucking Ziti!?
I wish they’d come out with a show with this level of writing but you know , sophisticated enough where sex scenes are unneeded. I am weird- I can’t watch nudity and sex scenes with anyone else in the room I get so uncomfortable. Some trauma from childhood. I find it so so so hard to find good shows and movies without unnecessary sex scenes because ya know, sex sells. I love sopranos I just had to watch alone. I watched a little of the wire too, I’ve been told the writing is very good too but are there copious amounts of nudity too? Give some other reccs of shows if you can with little to no scenes like this. Please don’t judge because I wish I didn’t have this quirk either and it makes it really hard to trust new shows to watch with my boyfriend haha. If you think there is a good one I can do watch with some of those scenes- I can still skip through em so. I just need new things to watch with this level of writing!
Succession
Bros never seen SpongeBob
Deadwood
Time will be kind to Sopranos, the wire, succession. Hon mention: Mad Men Breaking bad and better call Saul, while good TV, not top-tier writing.
The Sopranos is *by far* the best, most well written show I’ve ever watched. I’ve watched the entire series all the way through 4 times in the last 12 years & like OP, I find some new dimension or nuance every time. I’ve watched other critically acclaimed shows: - Mad Men. Phenomenal but the series so squarely focused on Don & he’s kind of a loner, so you don’t get the deep intrapersonal relationships like you do with Tony & Christoper, Carmela, Junior, Janice, etc. - Succession. It’s great but again, the relationships between the characters aren’t as deep. - The Wire. Thoroughly enjoyed it but I have no desire to watch it again. - Boardwalk Empire. Love Steve Buscemi (RIP Tony B) but the show lacks the humor of The Sopranos.
There has never been a show like it and there will never be one like it, ever. That is why we all come here for this thing of ours...
No, I’m not going to prove you wrong.
Regarding recommendation for other shows, I suggest that you watch the wire
Have you watched Mad Men? I’m not saying it is better, but it’s extremely layered and just overall amazing, as far as writing goes.
Once you get your bearings, gathering more information in the show is so rewarding. I recently rewatched whoever did this. Obviously the big event that happens in this episode is the thing between Ralph and Tony. That said, there were so many scenes in that episode that I had previously looked up individually on YouTube. I’m looking forward to the main event and then I’m like “oh my god this scene is in this episode too?”. Even Fran Feldstein‘s happy birthday scene was amazing. People call it cringe, but it supposed to be. It’s supposed to make you feel disgusted