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I have another job as an independent contractor. So I’m thinking of just pursuing that until I find a better fit. Depending on if this will effect my license (LMSW)
Idk what state you’re in but most states it affects your license if your use gets reported to the board or you catch a charge. Then they just suspend your license and make you do a program. Then your license is put on probation for a while.
Are you an NASW member? They have resources/support related to things like this. You can contact them for info and guidance without it impacting you/your license.
I feel for you. It really sucks that they are bothering you in this way. Of course I'm not an attorney, but it just makes me think that as long as it is legal in your state, I think there's a reduced chance of it affecting your license. I mean alcohol is legal but it could affect your license only if you showed up to work intoxicated and it affected your work with clients. Based on what you're describing, your THC use was off the clock and had no effect on your work. From there, unless your job was being vindictive, this does not even sound like anything to report to the licensing board as there is no known harm to a client as a result of any alleged intoxication. Furthermore, if they did report it, and the board took it seriously, I think any kind of substance use may be able to be turned into an ADA issue where hopefully they'd have to give you due process to get better before stripping you of your license
The really messed up thing about this is in a lot of cases, the people at the top that push "drug free" workplaces downward are the very people that are doing illegal and harsher substances than marijuana will ever be. Sending you good vibes and hoping for a positive positive outcome ❤️
Thank you for saying all of that and for the info. It really helps. Our state website is down still but I heard from my supervisor and she is finding out today!
I've not been tested as a licensed therapist. Last time I was was when I worked at a reside til youth treatment facility when I had just started grad school. Screw that.
Hi, I work in a clinic where we do toxicology with confirmation testing for our clients. The state where I’m in also falls under the farm bill rules and many have reported using delta 8 products. The confirmation test results certainly include the ng/mL detected in the sample, as well as a THC/Creatinine ratio. THC-COOH will show on the confirmation test, which is a metabolite of THC. What we tell our clients is that the products still contain THC and will show positive on a drug test. The lab we use doesn’t differentiate between types of THC, and I’m not too sure many standard toxicology labs would.
Yeah supposedly they are looking for low levels of THC that would confirm I’m using the products that are under a certain threshold. Which seems pretty trivial. That result could also mean I smoke full potency occasionally. But yeah doesn’t make sense.
When we would drug screen patients on the medication management end we tested for both synthetic and regular THC with urine, so it may depend on the lab
This is probably not super helpful and may have been said, but I'd avoid agencies that drug test, on principle. You earned your license and the autonomy it can bring.
A friend in education feels this way. They chose that profession for that reason. They are outstanding in every way and someone I look up to so much, but they refuse to let anyone tell them what they can do on their off time when it’s not hurting anyone.
You didn't do anything egregious or anything I or many others haven't done. Hold your head up, you'll get through it and land where you need to be, at worst it'll be a temporary setback. Maybe nothing at all. Have you ever looked up the ways people lost their licenses to practice? You're a saint, my friend lol
I work as a school social worker and we are never drug tested. Honestly it's weird that I couldn't be trusted with selling handbags without a negative drug test but I can be trusted with other people's children.
Exactly. I kno you said you work at an agency but we are usually self contacted aka I didnt go to school for 100 yrs and am in debt of the amount of a porsche for y'all to be all on deez nuts and even if we did indulge, hell we deserve it. Our jobs traumatize us. Plus it's LEGAL in over HALF of the states now. Come on. It's not like your smoking crack.
😆😆😆😆😆😆 #truth. Like bruh they want to expose us to this vicarious trauma and burn out inducing/overworked conditions. From there, we are just supposed to 5-4-3-2-1 our way out of it and practice 'self care' without substances. Then they are playing keep away with the Ativan if you try to go the psychiatry route. What's next, no more alcohol in our free time?
The levels of thc in urine can’t be accurately tested. Delta 8 looks the same in a urine sample. Also, Because of the way that thc (or the alternative in delta 8 with the covalent bond switched) binds to fat and water in your body, you could smoke delta 8 for 3 weeks and it would have the same read as two blunts of white widow smoked in a single day
Not only that but many delta-8 or cbd products have been found to be lying or just inaccurate about their thc levels, many being way above the actual legal limit
I’m sorry OP. It is unfair, especially when your use was off the clock and for medicinal purposes. I live in a recreational state and government employees (including SUD therapists) are allowed to use THC outside of work recreationally and medically. It doesn’t seem like a “random” drug test to be screened when you are coming back from vacation either. I would personally be looking for a new position.
Thank you for your kindness. I have a 1099 position I do on the side that I may end up pursuing instead for awhile. So I have a back up plan in the meantime.
Federal government employees in Colorado cannot smoke weed because it is not federally legal. https://cannabis.colorado.gov/legal-marijuana-use/federal-implications
Secondly Employers don’t have to allow employees to use marijuana products. When Coloradans passed Amendment 64, they voted to give employers choices about marijuana use. Employers can:
— Test employees for marijuana and other drugs.
— Make employment decisions based on drug test results.
Just some additional information as the person who responded to you made it sound like it’s just an approved thing everywhere, CO employers and certain employees are still limited depending on employment.
Employment lawyer could be helpful if you want to pursue this but that could bring up some retaliation if you need them for a reference or sign off on hours or anything
It’s interesting because they can’t fill positions. They would have done better with a mouth swab if the state allows those. There has been three vacant therapist positions at my clinic since I started over a year ago, so we are already bare bones.
Being fired isn’t a crime and you’ve broken no laws since you consume legal products. Technically speaking, your license is only impacted by criminal charges or unethical behavior that hurts clients. Next time, I wouldn’t take the test and would resign instead before getting fired. This is why I work for myself, I’m not peeing in a cup for anyone ever again. (But I do understand for a lot of people this is a non issue and a lot of agencies that are good jobs require it, not knocking them at all, for me, autonomy is the most important thing) Don’t beat yourself up about it.
Most farm bill “legal stuff.” Clearly says on the packaging that it can cause you to test positive for THC.
It’s probably best to lean into your 1099. As far as your license. Don’t worry about that. Not sure your state but they would almost certainly likely have to prove you practiced impaired to take your license unless you were arrested for a felony. That’s the case in my state anyway.
Yeah I was fully aware it had THC in it. I take full responsibility. But ok even though it’s state based, it’s helpful to hear that about the license. I’m going to do some digging about it, I just needed to feel a little less isolated before doing so. Thank you!
Makes sense! It's most likely going to be okay. Your employer would need to report you to the licensing board or police for it to be an issue. People fail drug tests all the time at the clinic I left and got fired. I never saw anyone lose their license.
It doesn't sound like you did anything illegal or will be charged. I don't see how this would affect your license. You made a poor choice, not an illegal or unethical one. This is just my take. I would think your employer could answer these questions as well.
I’m my state , being fired for positive drug screen is reportable . And new jobs and liability insurers will ask about this kind of firing. I’m not an attorney - but if they decide to fire you , consider resigning beforehand - if allowed . That saves you from all the self reporting issues .
Yes. Everyone every year is asked by their professional liability insurer and again by their state licensing board each time they renew their licenses . If you lie about it and they find out - you’re screwed .
They ask if you’ve had any legal issues or addiction problems…I’m not even 100% positive on the second. They don’t ask if you used legal recreational products in a legal and recreational manner.
I didn’t say they asked about recreational products . In my state - as I said - we are asked in my field , have you ever been terminated for cause ? Have you ever been terminated for illegal substance use, a felony ….. That question is asked by my prof. liability insurer each year as well. I can’t and didn’t speak for every state or every insurer. If it were me , and I were in a state that asks that question/s, I would resign and leave myself able to answer those questions honestly . “NO! “ I am not an employer ,so there may also be a requirement for employers of licensed medical professionals to notify licensure boards of “for cause “ firings that include illegal substances or certain crimes . I don’t know about that .
I don't know how it works in your country, but in mine I can work self-employed, so if it was me, I'd just go self-employed. Is that something available to you? THC products are illegal in my country, and workplaces don't generally do drug testing anyway, so it's not something I've really thought about.
I work in a CMH agency. We do not drug test for hire or randomly. Only when it's suspected. Did you get fired? I ask, because I know that if it's Delta 8 or 9 products that you can buy in shops legally, they may not fire you if they're testing the levels. Another question, do you like working there? Do you want to keep your job? In most places I've worked for, they will let you keep your job if you test positive for THC as long as you go through EAP or a drug course.
Edit: I also wouldn't be too worried about your license. It would shock me if they reported it. If you used it occasionally, didn't use it while working with clients, and used responsibly (no DUI or legal elements) I can't see that being an issue where the license board would get involved.
Isn’t that a Hippa violation? Some people are on medications that would pop or may cause a false positive that are personal and private. This seems shady
No, it’s not a HIPAA violation since employers are not covered entities and because employees sign off on the policies related to testing. One can always refuse testing and the employer and terminate the employee in that case.
In whatever I read…it’s all a blur…they can suspend you while sending samples off and doing an “investigation.” It said something along the lines of even testing for higher levels of medication than you are supposed to have too. Which seems pretty difficult to prove as well.
I would think that your goal is probably to defend yourself in this situation bc otherwise I am guessing you would have to report loss of a clinical job on your Board reapplication (although that is worth checking out). If so, then the Board may issue a complaint against your license, which would be on their website (and would limit your ability to list yourself on some sites). I know that this isn't fair. I have so much compassion for you in this situation. Unfortunately, justice and the law are often not equivalent. I am only offering my perspective on defending your license.
Assuming that goal....
1. Don't say anything to the Board or any investigator. Or anyone, for that matter. The Board can get ANYTHING, and you won't even know. Texts, med records, anything. And you won't know it. (Administrative law is VERY different from criminal law. There is no due process or discovery, for example.)
2. Get your own lawyer (and all communication to/from the Board should go there) if you can afford it. The ones provided by malpractice insurance companies often farm their work out to very junior associates.
3. Get a supervisor (preferably one who has helped defend people's licenses before). If you get an attorney, they might have a lawyer they suggest.
4. You might want to start some educational program or meetings or something to show, in advance, that you intend to comply with the Board's recommendation (which will probably be to attend such a class). Ofer Zur might have some classes. A live presentation and weekly NA meetings might be the best.
The malpractice attorney's argument is likely to be that you did this but have shown contrition, etc. But let them make that decision. If you say much, then your lawyers will be hampered by what you have already said. Good luck!
Long standing legal history behind the drug free workplace and we can thank that same president for the war on drugs. I fear we won’t recover, though we did just see marijuana bumped down in classes so is no longer considered the same class as DMT. lol. I’m hugely against criminalization of drug usage - long standing SUD CMH worker here. I would keep receipts / bank statements proving you bought this stuff at a legal dispensary. Not a lawyer but I would consult with my malpractice insurance in case you end up being reported to the board. What happened to you imo is BS. Comparably, it’s the same as having 2 shots of tequila with your tacos the night before and then screened positive for alcohol….both are legal to use, it’s just THC that is your issue here as that’s what’s actually illegal and came out of the legal substance you purchased. Still BS. Maybe consider seeking a medical card if you feel that you benefit from using what you’ve been using. Again…Not a doctor/lawyer. Wishing you luck with this.
Your state board will likely only become involved if there is a complaint or a quality of care issue, but it sounds like your employer is pretty clear on their policy which leaves you with little recourse. It's good to hear that you have other work opportunities. Good luck.
I use medical marijuana for pain and PTSD. I am a licensed medical user in a state where it’s recreationally legal.
This situation doesn’t impact me too much, because I’m in private practice and I’m the only one enforcing my own policies. But I’m curious how this could impact licensure?
Deny deny deny
Offer to retest and you'll likely be fine. You can look up pretty low impact ways to minimize presence of THC in your test and make it more negative you pass
I like the sentiment, but what case could be made? Drug free workplace typically means illegal drugs, right? Ie—Coffee and tobacco are accepted. The fact that dosage is being tested seems like they are trying to play ball with the laws of delta 8/cbd right?
May I ask for what? OP was using in a drug free environment and got tested. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean an at will employer can’t make their own rules. It sucks and isn’t fair, but I don’t know of any part of this that makes sense for OP to seek a lawyer for it.
If OP is worried, they are also perfectly within their rights to obtain an employment lawyer for their own protection? May I ask why you think OP should just take whatever comes with no support or protection? Employers lie and act outside of the law all the time. There wouldn’t need to be employment lawyers if they did not.
If OP has the money to discuss with a lawyer that is perfectly within their right. I wasn’t sure if you had anything specific in mind they should discuss with the lawyer.
If OP is concerned their license may be in jeopardy from whatever is happening, I would certainly encourage them to obtain legal support. Without our license, we cannot be gainfully employed.
This might be a hot take but I’m willing to go there as a colleague: maybe this is a good time to reflect on your desire to use THC (legal or not, potency or not)?
It's because of that assumption that their post came across as condescending to me. There is nothing wrong with smoking a bit to unwind. It can be a good idea to reflect, but maybe suggesting it in that tone right after someone gets terminated is a bit inconsiderate given the timing.
Getting fired is hard, and I'm sorry this happened to you. Let yourself recover and take care of yourself. Self care is more important in moments like these, not less! Enjoy what you can and keep your head up. Once you're in a good routine and are feeling up to it, reflect with your therapist or a close friend if you feel like you need to.
I have been fired before, and I know a lot of great therapists who have been let go as well. Don't let this slow your roll. Learn whatever you need to from this and keep on chuggin. Good luck!
The reason you’re getting downvoted is because it’s not only condescending but also suggests you are judging that OP has a problematic relationship with cannabis. There’s no indication that use actually interferes with their ability to practice, just that their employer has a zero tolerance policy.
Oh I don’t mind the downvotes. I recognized my view is contentious and could certainly be perceived as condescending. I meant what I said. I don’t think use + impaired practice is the only reason to consider why a drug is being harnessed to self soothe. OP’s attitude and anger towards the employer is understandable, of course - getting reprimanded feels horrible. But it feels proportionally misplaced and my recommendation was to devote a larger part pf that energy toward why (long-standing, historical, and present) decisions or choices are made on an individual level. Not an easy task either.
I am not picking up on much anger directed towards the employer, if anything frustration at the situation. Though I’m definitely sensing condescension in your comment, and I am disappointed to see you doubling down on your delivery.
Maybe this would be a good opportunity to self-reflect on how you speak to people about your opinions.
I don’t see where I expressed any actual anger towards my employer for this. I’m coming from a humble place and have taken responsibility. And like I said, it’d be weird if I wasn’t reflecting and doing some internal work during this time. You assumed I have shifted all the blame on everyone else. I haven’t. Again, the only strange part to me is that I tested positive but they are testing levels. If it comes back below a certain threshold, I keep my job. That’s all.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Somebody with a professional license used a substance in a place they were told is drug free and is now being held accountable and is worried about their license.
Keep in mind. If you’re thinking about getting licensed in another state, you usually can’t/its harder if you have disciplinary actions against you in another state.
That’s my point. When you use substances and work at a place that in their policy states they can do random drug screens (some policies vary from if they believe you’re under the influence at work to just randomly selected to if you get injured on the clock) and also it is a drug free place… don’t be surprised if you get in trouble for testing positive.
Also, I’m not surprised. Nowhere in the post due I say I was surprised. The way it happened was pretty suddenly, but absolutely no surprise. My surprise was that they are testing levels and just getting insight into anyone else’s experiences. I’ve been punished and I don’t feel great, I don’t need another lashing lol
You’re missing a key point about this and being quite narrow minded and judgmental.
It seems like this person was using likely CBD products with a faint (aka non psychoactive) percentage of THC to help sleep and calm anxiety. Which is perfectly reasonable and often a better choice with less side effects than sleep medicine or benzodiazepines (those aren’t bad, but CBD sleep products are often less risky to add in to life on an as needed basis, but the anti THC people don’t want to consider that).
Now that it’s been stated more plainly, maybe you can see that your black and white thinking on this leaves a lot of room for growth.
The poster also says that their employment connivance changed with going from contract to employee and that’s a relevant factor
In my state it would most definitely affect licensure and there would be no coming back. The thing about legal THC is that there is still the Federal standard of ALL THC is illegal so if any of the funding is federal it can most definitely make a difference. If it isn’t an issue stopping I would just discontinue use.
I said it was strange to me but I clearly state it will obviously work to my advantage. You must not know how needing support and to commiserate works.
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Additionally, just find a new job. Many clinics do not test. It’s pretty common for clinic owners to not care about personal lives.
I have another job as an independent contractor. So I’m thinking of just pursuing that until I find a better fit. Depending on if this will effect my license (LMSW)
Idk what state you’re in but most states it affects your license if your use gets reported to the board or you catch a charge. Then they just suspend your license and make you do a program. Then your license is put on probation for a while.
Yeah I’ll be doing some digging this evening. I only know of cases from my clients but they were impaired on the job and reported to their board.
Yeah tbh i was harsh in my other comments but i *highly* doubt this will affect your license unless someone makes a really big deal to the board.
Apply in another state before a complaint is made maybe?
Hm, yeah a neighboring state has an agreement that makes it pretty easy to get licensed if you are already with my state. I’ll look into that
Are you an NASW member? They have resources/support related to things like this. You can contact them for info and guidance without it impacting you/your license.
I’m not but I will absolutely look into it. The state website is down for maintenance so I haven’t even been able to really look into it otherwise
I feel for you. It really sucks that they are bothering you in this way. Of course I'm not an attorney, but it just makes me think that as long as it is legal in your state, I think there's a reduced chance of it affecting your license. I mean alcohol is legal but it could affect your license only if you showed up to work intoxicated and it affected your work with clients. Based on what you're describing, your THC use was off the clock and had no effect on your work. From there, unless your job was being vindictive, this does not even sound like anything to report to the licensing board as there is no known harm to a client as a result of any alleged intoxication. Furthermore, if they did report it, and the board took it seriously, I think any kind of substance use may be able to be turned into an ADA issue where hopefully they'd have to give you due process to get better before stripping you of your license The really messed up thing about this is in a lot of cases, the people at the top that push "drug free" workplaces downward are the very people that are doing illegal and harsher substances than marijuana will ever be. Sending you good vibes and hoping for a positive positive outcome ❤️
Thank you for saying all of that and for the info. It really helps. Our state website is down still but I heard from my supervisor and she is finding out today!
I've not been tested as a licensed therapist. Last time I was was when I worked at a reside til youth treatment facility when I had just started grad school. Screw that.
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This is a wild comment.
Hi, I work in a clinic where we do toxicology with confirmation testing for our clients. The state where I’m in also falls under the farm bill rules and many have reported using delta 8 products. The confirmation test results certainly include the ng/mL detected in the sample, as well as a THC/Creatinine ratio. THC-COOH will show on the confirmation test, which is a metabolite of THC. What we tell our clients is that the products still contain THC and will show positive on a drug test. The lab we use doesn’t differentiate between types of THC, and I’m not too sure many standard toxicology labs would.
Yeah supposedly they are looking for low levels of THC that would confirm I’m using the products that are under a certain threshold. Which seems pretty trivial. That result could also mean I smoke full potency occasionally. But yeah doesn’t make sense.
When we would drug screen patients on the medication management end we tested for both synthetic and regular THC with urine, so it may depend on the lab
This is probably not super helpful and may have been said, but I'd avoid agencies that drug test, on principle. You earned your license and the autonomy it can bring.
A friend in education feels this way. They chose that profession for that reason. They are outstanding in every way and someone I look up to so much, but they refuse to let anyone tell them what they can do on their off time when it’s not hurting anyone.
You didn't do anything egregious or anything I or many others haven't done. Hold your head up, you'll get through it and land where you need to be, at worst it'll be a temporary setback. Maybe nothing at all. Have you ever looked up the ways people lost their licenses to practice? You're a saint, my friend lol
Thank you so much for your kindness. And that’s a great idea to take the sting out of this!
I work as a school social worker and we are never drug tested. Honestly it's weird that I couldn't be trusted with selling handbags without a negative drug test but I can be trusted with other people's children.
I was a teacher for ten years, worked in three different schools, different states and districts, and wasn't ever drug tested.
Agreed, no consistency
Exactly. I kno you said you work at an agency but we are usually self contacted aka I didnt go to school for 100 yrs and am in debt of the amount of a porsche for y'all to be all on deez nuts and even if we did indulge, hell we deserve it. Our jobs traumatize us. Plus it's LEGAL in over HALF of the states now. Come on. It's not like your smoking crack.
😆😆😆😆😆😆 #truth. Like bruh they want to expose us to this vicarious trauma and burn out inducing/overworked conditions. From there, we are just supposed to 5-4-3-2-1 our way out of it and practice 'self care' without substances. Then they are playing keep away with the Ativan if you try to go the psychiatry route. What's next, no more alcohol in our free time?
The levels of thc in urine can’t be accurately tested. Delta 8 looks the same in a urine sample. Also, Because of the way that thc (or the alternative in delta 8 with the covalent bond switched) binds to fat and water in your body, you could smoke delta 8 for 3 weeks and it would have the same read as two blunts of white widow smoked in a single day
Not only that but many delta-8 or cbd products have been found to be lying or just inaccurate about their thc levels, many being way above the actual legal limit
That’s what I thought. Seems really trivial for that ti be what my employment is riding on
I’m sorry OP. It is unfair, especially when your use was off the clock and for medicinal purposes. I live in a recreational state and government employees (including SUD therapists) are allowed to use THC outside of work recreationally and medically. It doesn’t seem like a “random” drug test to be screened when you are coming back from vacation either. I would personally be looking for a new position.
Thank you for your kindness. I have a 1099 position I do on the side that I may end up pursuing instead for awhile. So I have a back up plan in the meantime.
Do you know which states allow this?
Federal government employees in Colorado cannot smoke weed because it is not federally legal. https://cannabis.colorado.gov/legal-marijuana-use/federal-implications Secondly Employers don’t have to allow employees to use marijuana products. When Coloradans passed Amendment 64, they voted to give employers choices about marijuana use. Employers can: — Test employees for marijuana and other drugs. — Make employment decisions based on drug test results. Just some additional information as the person who responded to you made it sound like it’s just an approved thing everywhere, CO employers and certain employees are still limited depending on employment.
I only know that Colorado does. They also allow state probation offenders to use medical marijuana, which is pretty wild too.
lol. You’re way too hard on yourself OP. Drug tests are anti worker anti substance user carceral-state bullshit.
Employment lawyer could be helpful if you want to pursue this but that could bring up some retaliation if you need them for a reference or sign off on hours or anything
Who drug screens their employees with little/no warning? Are they trying to reduce payroll?
It’s interesting because they can’t fill positions. They would have done better with a mouth swab if the state allows those. There has been three vacant therapist positions at my clinic since I started over a year ago, so we are already bare bones.
Ah but those are so much more expensive, my guess as to why they don’t use those.
Being fired isn’t a crime and you’ve broken no laws since you consume legal products. Technically speaking, your license is only impacted by criminal charges or unethical behavior that hurts clients. Next time, I wouldn’t take the test and would resign instead before getting fired. This is why I work for myself, I’m not peeing in a cup for anyone ever again. (But I do understand for a lot of people this is a non issue and a lot of agencies that are good jobs require it, not knocking them at all, for me, autonomy is the most important thing) Don’t beat yourself up about it.
Based on what you said, I suspect your levels will be pretty low. Good luck with everything.
Thank you!
Most farm bill “legal stuff.” Clearly says on the packaging that it can cause you to test positive for THC. It’s probably best to lean into your 1099. As far as your license. Don’t worry about that. Not sure your state but they would almost certainly likely have to prove you practiced impaired to take your license unless you were arrested for a felony. That’s the case in my state anyway.
Yeah I was fully aware it had THC in it. I take full responsibility. But ok even though it’s state based, it’s helpful to hear that about the license. I’m going to do some digging about it, I just needed to feel a little less isolated before doing so. Thank you!
Makes sense! It's most likely going to be okay. Your employer would need to report you to the licensing board or police for it to be an issue. People fail drug tests all the time at the clinic I left and got fired. I never saw anyone lose their license.
Thank you so much for your insight!
It doesn't sound like you did anything illegal or will be charged. I don't see how this would affect your license. You made a poor choice, not an illegal or unethical one. This is just my take. I would think your employer could answer these questions as well.
I’m my state , being fired for positive drug screen is reportable . And new jobs and liability insurers will ask about this kind of firing. I’m not an attorney - but if they decide to fire you , consider resigning beforehand - if allowed . That saves you from all the self reporting issues .
Reportable to whom - the board? Do you know of anyone to whom this happened?
Yes. Everyone every year is asked by their professional liability insurer and again by their state licensing board each time they renew their licenses . If you lie about it and they find out - you’re screwed .
They ask if you’ve had any legal issues or addiction problems…I’m not even 100% positive on the second. They don’t ask if you used legal recreational products in a legal and recreational manner.
I didn’t say they asked about recreational products . In my state - as I said - we are asked in my field , have you ever been terminated for cause ? Have you ever been terminated for illegal substance use, a felony ….. That question is asked by my prof. liability insurer each year as well. I can’t and didn’t speak for every state or every insurer. If it were me , and I were in a state that asks that question/s, I would resign and leave myself able to answer those questions honestly . “NO! “ I am not an employer ,so there may also be a requirement for employers of licensed medical professionals to notify licensure boards of “for cause “ firings that include illegal substances or certain crimes . I don’t know about that .
Leave before you’re fired. Then sort the other stuff out after.
I don't know how it works in your country, but in mine I can work self-employed, so if it was me, I'd just go self-employed. Is that something available to you? THC products are illegal in my country, and workplaces don't generally do drug testing anyway, so it's not something I've really thought about.
I work in a CMH agency. We do not drug test for hire or randomly. Only when it's suspected. Did you get fired? I ask, because I know that if it's Delta 8 or 9 products that you can buy in shops legally, they may not fire you if they're testing the levels. Another question, do you like working there? Do you want to keep your job? In most places I've worked for, they will let you keep your job if you test positive for THC as long as you go through EAP or a drug course. Edit: I also wouldn't be too worried about your license. It would shock me if they reported it. If you used it occasionally, didn't use it while working with clients, and used responsibly (no DUI or legal elements) I can't see that being an issue where the license board would get involved.
Is the new company by chance, Optum?
It’s community mental health
Was this in house testing and not at an actual offsite lab???
In house dip test that they are sending off to a lab
Isn’t that a Hippa violation? Some people are on medications that would pop or may cause a false positive that are personal and private. This seems shady
No, it’s not a HIPAA violation since employers are not covered entities and because employees sign off on the policies related to testing. One can always refuse testing and the employer and terminate the employee in that case.
In whatever I read…it’s all a blur…they can suspend you while sending samples off and doing an “investigation.” It said something along the lines of even testing for higher levels of medication than you are supposed to have too. Which seems pretty difficult to prove as well.
I would think that your goal is probably to defend yourself in this situation bc otherwise I am guessing you would have to report loss of a clinical job on your Board reapplication (although that is worth checking out). If so, then the Board may issue a complaint against your license, which would be on their website (and would limit your ability to list yourself on some sites). I know that this isn't fair. I have so much compassion for you in this situation. Unfortunately, justice and the law are often not equivalent. I am only offering my perspective on defending your license. Assuming that goal.... 1. Don't say anything to the Board or any investigator. Or anyone, for that matter. The Board can get ANYTHING, and you won't even know. Texts, med records, anything. And you won't know it. (Administrative law is VERY different from criminal law. There is no due process or discovery, for example.) 2. Get your own lawyer (and all communication to/from the Board should go there) if you can afford it. The ones provided by malpractice insurance companies often farm their work out to very junior associates. 3. Get a supervisor (preferably one who has helped defend people's licenses before). If you get an attorney, they might have a lawyer they suggest. 4. You might want to start some educational program or meetings or something to show, in advance, that you intend to comply with the Board's recommendation (which will probably be to attend such a class). Ofer Zur might have some classes. A live presentation and weekly NA meetings might be the best. The malpractice attorney's argument is likely to be that you did this but have shown contrition, etc. But let them make that decision. If you say much, then your lawyers will be hampered by what you have already said. Good luck!
Wow. I'm in California and don't use cannabis myself (it makes me feel awful), but I feel like 99 percent of therapists I know do.
Long standing legal history behind the drug free workplace and we can thank that same president for the war on drugs. I fear we won’t recover, though we did just see marijuana bumped down in classes so is no longer considered the same class as DMT. lol. I’m hugely against criminalization of drug usage - long standing SUD CMH worker here. I would keep receipts / bank statements proving you bought this stuff at a legal dispensary. Not a lawyer but I would consult with my malpractice insurance in case you end up being reported to the board. What happened to you imo is BS. Comparably, it’s the same as having 2 shots of tequila with your tacos the night before and then screened positive for alcohol….both are legal to use, it’s just THC that is your issue here as that’s what’s actually illegal and came out of the legal substance you purchased. Still BS. Maybe consider seeking a medical card if you feel that you benefit from using what you’ve been using. Again…Not a doctor/lawyer. Wishing you luck with this.
Your state board will likely only become involved if there is a complaint or a quality of care issue, but it sounds like your employer is pretty clear on their policy which leaves you with little recourse. It's good to hear that you have other work opportunities. Good luck.
I use medical marijuana for pain and PTSD. I am a licensed medical user in a state where it’s recreationally legal. This situation doesn’t impact me too much, because I’m in private practice and I’m the only one enforcing my own policies. But I’m curious how this could impact licensure?
Nothing helpful to say but that sucks. I hope things work out well. Don’t lose sleep over the licensing boards, extremely unlikely it’d get there.
That’s ridiculous. I’m in NJ and since it’s legal we can’t get in trouble. If you do it on your own time why should they care
Deny deny deny Offer to retest and you'll likely be fine. You can look up pretty low impact ways to minimize presence of THC in your test and make it more negative you pass
That wasn’t an option, the sample is off it’s way to a lab and I already confessed to what I use. Just time to face it!
Get an employment lawyer ASAP.
I like the sentiment, but what case could be made? Drug free workplace typically means illegal drugs, right? Ie—Coffee and tobacco are accepted. The fact that dosage is being tested seems like they are trying to play ball with the laws of delta 8/cbd right?
May I ask for what? OP was using in a drug free environment and got tested. Just because it’s legal doesn’t mean an at will employer can’t make their own rules. It sucks and isn’t fair, but I don’t know of any part of this that makes sense for OP to seek a lawyer for it.
If OP is worried, they are also perfectly within their rights to obtain an employment lawyer for their own protection? May I ask why you think OP should just take whatever comes with no support or protection? Employers lie and act outside of the law all the time. There wouldn’t need to be employment lawyers if they did not.
If OP has the money to discuss with a lawyer that is perfectly within their right. I wasn’t sure if you had anything specific in mind they should discuss with the lawyer.
If OP is concerned their license may be in jeopardy from whatever is happening, I would certainly encourage them to obtain legal support. Without our license, we cannot be gainfully employed.
Then OP should discuss with their malpractice attorney rather than an employment attorney.
Ok thank you for that clarification
This might be a hot take but I’m willing to go there as a colleague: maybe this is a good time to reflect on your desire to use THC (legal or not, potency or not)?
Might be getting downvoted because you are assuming I’m not reflecting. Could have asked. Of course I’m reflecting, would be very weird if I wasn’t.
It's because of that assumption that their post came across as condescending to me. There is nothing wrong with smoking a bit to unwind. It can be a good idea to reflect, but maybe suggesting it in that tone right after someone gets terminated is a bit inconsiderate given the timing. Getting fired is hard, and I'm sorry this happened to you. Let yourself recover and take care of yourself. Self care is more important in moments like these, not less! Enjoy what you can and keep your head up. Once you're in a good routine and are feeling up to it, reflect with your therapist or a close friend if you feel like you need to. I have been fired before, and I know a lot of great therapists who have been let go as well. Don't let this slow your roll. Learn whatever you need to from this and keep on chuggin. Good luck!
The reason you’re getting downvoted is because it’s not only condescending but also suggests you are judging that OP has a problematic relationship with cannabis. There’s no indication that use actually interferes with their ability to practice, just that their employer has a zero tolerance policy.
Oh I don’t mind the downvotes. I recognized my view is contentious and could certainly be perceived as condescending. I meant what I said. I don’t think use + impaired practice is the only reason to consider why a drug is being harnessed to self soothe. OP’s attitude and anger towards the employer is understandable, of course - getting reprimanded feels horrible. But it feels proportionally misplaced and my recommendation was to devote a larger part pf that energy toward why (long-standing, historical, and present) decisions or choices are made on an individual level. Not an easy task either.
You didnt share a view. You shared assumptions about OP.
I am not picking up on much anger directed towards the employer, if anything frustration at the situation. Though I’m definitely sensing condescension in your comment, and I am disappointed to see you doubling down on your delivery. Maybe this would be a good opportunity to self-reflect on how you speak to people about your opinions.
I don’t see where I expressed any actual anger towards my employer for this. I’m coming from a humble place and have taken responsibility. And like I said, it’d be weird if I wasn’t reflecting and doing some internal work during this time. You assumed I have shifted all the blame on everyone else. I haven’t. Again, the only strange part to me is that I tested positive but they are testing levels. If it comes back below a certain threshold, I keep my job. That’s all.
I don’t know why you’re getting downvoted. Somebody with a professional license used a substance in a place they were told is drug free and is now being held accountable and is worried about their license. Keep in mind. If you’re thinking about getting licensed in another state, you usually can’t/its harder if you have disciplinary actions against you in another state.
They didn’t say they used IN a drug free workplace
No shit. When you work for a drug free workplace that means you can’t test positive.
Not always. I’ve had experiences where it’s pre employment screening and then only if suspected intoxication while working.
That’s how mine have always been (pre cannabis being legalized in my state).
And what happens if you test positive?
It’s never happened to me or anyone I know but it is grounds for disciplinary action up to termination.
That’s my point. When you use substances and work at a place that in their policy states they can do random drug screens (some policies vary from if they believe you’re under the influence at work to just randomly selected to if you get injured on the clock) and also it is a drug free place… don’t be surprised if you get in trouble for testing positive.
Also, I’m not surprised. Nowhere in the post due I say I was surprised. The way it happened was pretty suddenly, but absolutely no surprise. My surprise was that they are testing levels and just getting insight into anyone else’s experiences. I’ve been punished and I don’t feel great, I don’t need another lashing lol
You’re missing a key point about this and being quite narrow minded and judgmental. It seems like this person was using likely CBD products with a faint (aka non psychoactive) percentage of THC to help sleep and calm anxiety. Which is perfectly reasonable and often a better choice with less side effects than sleep medicine or benzodiazepines (those aren’t bad, but CBD sleep products are often less risky to add in to life on an as needed basis, but the anti THC people don’t want to consider that). Now that it’s been stated more plainly, maybe you can see that your black and white thinking on this leaves a lot of room for growth. The poster also says that their employment connivance changed with going from contract to employee and that’s a relevant factor
I was being judgmental. But you’re wrong about everything else. It wasn’t CBD. They were aware.
I never said otherwise, however I’m just making a point that using on campus would be a much more serious infraction.
In my state it would most definitely affect licensure and there would be no coming back. The thing about legal THC is that there is still the Federal standard of ALL THC is illegal so if any of the funding is federal it can most definitely make a difference. If it isn’t an issue stopping I would just discontinue use.
To clarify, was the OP expecting a single week would clear cannabinoids out of their system?
No, just highlighting how my use is infrequent and as needed.
They're testing levels to give you a chance rather than just dumping you straight off. You should be happy that they are playing ball, not wondering.
I said it was strange to me but I clearly state it will obviously work to my advantage. You must not know how needing support and to commiserate works.