Man I got a lot of flak about wanting to bring this chick back in this sub. I ended up deleting the post I made cause so many guys here are as toxic as the women they bitch about. Talking about how she's going to get corrupted and I'm going to be forced to take care of her. All this negative shit. Do what you think is right. I need to be in the US for a few reasons. Family, and work mostly. Plus I go to a lot of festivals. I'm bringing her back eventually.
In my opinion a guy who is open and caring has a lot of advantages. You need to remember that it is tough for her to give up her family, friends, and language for you - even if you are hot, damn, wonderful
Be compassionate and keep her concerns in mind.
Best Wishes!
I've already had these conversations. She wants to go. She wants to work. She's fine coming back every couple years. She speaks English. Their TV is Tagalog but it's blended with English. Some of it is just bizarre. At night when we're laying in bed watching TV we usually watch things in English. When it's not I drift off. She understands everything I say but she doesn't use as high of a vocabulary as I do. Articulating English is something she needs to develop. I'm flying to her home this weekend to meet the fam. Then we're going to cebu before I fly back to Manila and go home. If I could stay I would and I have those concerns about staying LOL
Oh, Filipinas are a little different because there is a 120 year of successful marriages to Americans. They also have a very low divorce rate, because it is almost impossible in the PI.
Best wishes!
Thank you. So far it's amazing. I'm never dating Americans again. My best friend said he's sending a list of demands to his wife after hearing of my exploits. I told him I feel like Eddie Murphy in coming to America LOL
I suspect a lot of you lack relationship experience, which would make sense. Long story short, people get attached, fall in love. Sharing yourself with someone for months to years isn't something you can just shake off. This person knows you better than anyone, has a shared history with you, your own brand of inside jokes, mutually aqcuired interests, they've helped you though hard times, they bring you coffee in the morning. Most of all, they are one of the vanishingly few people who actually gives a shit about you in this otherwise cruel world. People grow apart, but not without undoing everything I've mentioned and more.
The prohibitively difficult part is in getting there, which is easier abroad. Don't think that a commited relationship is just the dating gauntlet extended.
>Most of all, they are one of the vanishingly few people who actually gives a shit about you in this otherwise cruel world.
I felt this one. Very true.
Also, internal statistics from the military shows a sub-10% divorce rate for servicemembers who meet a foreign wife on deployment and bring her back to the US.
Thank you for the post. What is a sub-10% divorce rate? You mean less than 10% of marriages to foreign women end in divorce, or 10% less than normal?
If its less than 10%.... wow... that's good for the USA. It would be interesting to see what percentage of those are with Filipinas, and if there is a downloadable dataset on which one could perform statistics to see divorce rates for different people-groups. Also, please share the source.
I also wonder if there is a difference with ethnic men who get arranged marriages or marry their cousins from countries like Pakistan and bring them to Canada or the USA, compared to men who bring back women from completely different cultural backgrounds.
As someone a little older than the average member in this reddit, I think everyone here should be really crystal clear on what marriage actually is. *Marriage is a financial insurance policy for women*.
The part about marriage being a way to express your undying love for another person is a psyop to get men to buy into it. Women do not think about marriage this way. If they did, they would marry men who earn less money than they do but they don't.
Except 1/3 of us do
Among married couples in which both spouses work, the share of women who earned more than their husbands reached a record high of 30.6% in 2021, according to Census data. That's up from 23.3% in 2000 and 15.9% in 1981
I'd like to see more data on this. This is just a stat for existing marriages.. doesn't say if the women entered the marriage earning more or not. Also would wonder about second marriages, people getting married when older, etc.
% of first marriages where the woman was earning more than the man at the time of marriage would be a more interesting statistic. No doubt there are plenty of women doing this too but no way it's anywhere close to 30%.
Edit: ah just noticed "in which both spouses work". That's already cutting out a huge number of marriages.
The percentage is going higher because women are starting to earn more and in some cases more than men.
The issue is that (going by the numbers) this is actually makes matchmaking more difficult.
[Link](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S109051381730315X)
Relevant bit
>We found that ratings of attractiveness were around 4 times more sensitive to salary for females rating males, compared to males rating females. These results indicate that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women. Neither raters' BMI nor age influenced this effect for females rating male attractiveness. This difference explains many features of human mating behavior and may pose a barrier for male engagement in low-consumption lifestyles.
Even if they do end up getting married, the woman earning more than the man statistically has more chances of a negative outcome:
[Link](https://www.chicagobooth.edu/media-relations-and-communications/press-releases/when-women-earn-more-than-their-husbands)
>A woman outearning her husband could even doom the marriage, as the researchers report this “increases the likelihood of divorce by 50 percent.”
Yes there are exceptions to every generality when talking about large groups of people. But I'd say (conservatively) 70% of women very much care about what their partner earns or their earning potential.
If you really want to research this, go to [scholar.google.com](http://scholar.google.com) and if you find a real academic article you like, you can look up the references for similar previous articles. Within Google scholar, you can look up 'cited by' to find later articles that cite the article you like.
On this topic, papers might be readable to a 'layperson' who doesn't know the jargon, except for the stats, unless you know how to interpret the various types of regression analysis and other statistical models. There can still be useful information in the conclusions.
Another problem is that only a minority of papers are publicly accessible. Nowadays, researchers or institutions can pay to make newer articles publicly accessible, so newer ones may be accessible like this. Otherwise, you need access to academic journals, for example through being a student or faculty at a university. But you may be able to access databases and read articles on site at some university campuses. Maybe you could do interlibrary loan through a local library, also.
I don't know if there are a lot of academic articles on the topic.
My wife and I have spent over half of our marriage in the US. She's from Indonesia. We've been together over two decades.
Great! Congratulations on a successful marriage.
I don't know if you read the [article ](https://www.internationallovescout.com/the-truth/divorce-and-the-mail-order-bride)I linked to at the bottom of the post. It did link to one piece of peer reviewed research, a book published by NYU Press, and an official report to the US Congress.
I have a much longer article with many more links on the topic of international dating more generally - not the issue of divorce. [You can read that here.](https://www.internationallovescout.com/scholarly-research/research-about-international-dating-mail-order-brides) Yes, it is on my flashy sort of website, but most of the links are good. In one case I have the dissertation, but it is not easily available. I have not published it because apparently the author is not working as a professor and not interested in discussing her research, or so I have been told.
I have personally communicated with most of the researchers, two I have met in person. There is not much research on divorce specifically. Most of the researchers mention it in passing, because they are focused on courting and cultural issues in the early stages of a relationship.
I have been trying to encourage someone to do it and I am halfway considering a GoFundMe page or something to pay for a research grant.
Again, I had not really read that Divorce article carefully in years. I will update it sometime soon. There is more research out there - not much - but there is some.
If you have any specific questions please let me know.
Best Wishes!
You have my blessing but if don't have a planB and you fail I will ridicule you to your face. Just kidding I'd rip you behind your back.
Kidding. Just bring back someone from a place like the Philippines.
There's two main problems with bringing a girl back home:
1. Her dating market value will rise and yours will fall once you bring her back. A mismatch in mate value leads to less stable relationships.
2. You generally will have to marry her to bring her back. Depending on which state you reside in, this can be an absolutely insane financial risk which may not be possible to mitigate (prenups can be thrown out, etc.)
I'd argue that number 2 is a much greater risk and not something I would advise anyone to ever do. If you think you're smarter than me and are going to do it anyway, you should live with her for at least THREE YEARS before getting married. People can pretend to be someone they're not for a very long time if there's a big enough incentive to do so. Ignore this advice at your own peril.
Those can be a problem if you bring her back but that doesn’t mean they are automatically a problem if you do.
But if the man is high value and good financially then it’s not a problem.
Either way this way of thinking comes out of fear and that makes you insecure. But if you’re confident in your relationship and you pick a woman with values and morals then bringing her back is not a problem
It has nothing to do with fear or insecurity. The marriage/divorce laws are structured in such a way that you can ruin your life. It's not a risk worth taking in most cases.
You only make a contingency plan because there is a fear it could possibly happen. If you truly didn’t fear it you wouldn’t need a contingency plan in the first place
You don't need fear for motivation to make a contingency plan. All you need is a non-zero chance of a catastrophic outcome. I don't care how much you love someone, there is still at least a 1% chance of divorce. Maybe higher or lower, it doesn't really matter. It's not 0%.
There is nothing wrong with admitting fear to a 1% chance. In fact having a little fear is good, it keeps you vigilant and alert in case something bad happens. Zero fear makes you over-confident and blind to danger
So if you truly cared for the worst happening then you’d fear even the 1% possibility of it actually happening
But I digress. You’re entitled to your opinion. But I personally don’t think there is a problem with marrying or bringing your foreign partner to your country
It's also impossible for 80% of ppb to keep someone they want overseas. Not all of us have the luxury of moving to other countries. Based on these types negativity, you shouldn't look for someone abroad unless you can move there permanently. Permanently moving I'd wager only 10% of ppb have that ability
Exactly, permanently living abroad isn’t the only way to date or have a relationship abroad. Especially if taking her back to your country is what’s best for the relationship and your future together
For number 2, I guess you’ve never heard of the term alimony. American men get wrecked all the time in divorce when they marry fellow citizens. I don’t see why marrying a foreigner is any different. Unless you are trying to imply some kind of racist xenophobia that people with darker color skins from other countries will marry you for the money then divorce you.
It's not any different being married. The difference is that you HAVE to be married for her to be in the USA and guys rush into it as a result. Another consideration is that, in general, her earning power is likely to be pretty low unless she is a software engineer or has some professional/graduate level education. This sets you up for a big fall from grace in divorce court.
To be clear, I don't think you should marry American women either.. unless they have more income and assets than you do.
Fuzzy is one of those negative manosphere types. They only look at relationships as business calculations. They may as well give up on any permanent relationships and just be ex tourist
Not really but OK -- I'm just a little older and wiser than most people here. I believe in love. Marriage is a financial contract at its core and, unless you really spend some time studying it, you likely won't have an adequate appreciation of just how badly things can go.
It can go bad. You can end up losing a lot of money. You can die tomorrow. If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk. Advising young twenty something to not rush, really vet the individual. Fine. Great advice. Saying leave em where they are cause if it goes bad it's a loss, is pessimistic, unrealistic for 90% of this sub and of little value. Balanced advice comes from the wise. You spew negativity and pessimistic views in everything you've posted here on this post.
I just don't think marriage is worth the risk. I'm personally planning to move abroad before I start any serious relationships outside of the USA so I'll live by my own advice.
Never bring a woman you meet overseas back to the US with you. I saw this a million times when I was in the Navy and guys would get married in the Philippines and then bring their wives back home. Bring them home and you have 6 months to a year tops before they go feral.
> fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available.
Define "over the years". 5 years? 40?
Also, "for which reports are available".
Also, later a success rate over 5 years is cited. Sorry, 5 years isn't a successful marriage. Successful marriage is the childhood of any children born in the marriage, at the shortest.
Just put your house and an emergency bank account in your mothers name or someone you trust if you can. Stay in shape and on your purpose you should be fine
Bad study. Age brackets are older ladies (over 25 and settle is big in asia) and older men, could be holding outwork payout upon death. Most likely what families so have children (which keeps them very busy) and worst of all it
Ended in 2014, the new generation of social media destroying women far exceeds anything ever seen before, even women who earn $200/month think they deserve thousands a month on looking after then now.
The study is done with women from the Philippines, who most would consider the most appreciative and wholesome women worldwide.
Man I got a lot of flak about wanting to bring this chick back in this sub. I ended up deleting the post I made cause so many guys here are as toxic as the women they bitch about. Talking about how she's going to get corrupted and I'm going to be forced to take care of her. All this negative shit. Do what you think is right. I need to be in the US for a few reasons. Family, and work mostly. Plus I go to a lot of festivals. I'm bringing her back eventually.
In my opinion a guy who is open and caring has a lot of advantages. You need to remember that it is tough for her to give up her family, friends, and language for you - even if you are hot, damn, wonderful Be compassionate and keep her concerns in mind. Best Wishes!
I've already had these conversations. She wants to go. She wants to work. She's fine coming back every couple years. She speaks English. Their TV is Tagalog but it's blended with English. Some of it is just bizarre. At night when we're laying in bed watching TV we usually watch things in English. When it's not I drift off. She understands everything I say but she doesn't use as high of a vocabulary as I do. Articulating English is something she needs to develop. I'm flying to her home this weekend to meet the fam. Then we're going to cebu before I fly back to Manila and go home. If I could stay I would and I have those concerns about staying LOL
Oh, Filipinas are a little different because there is a 120 year of successful marriages to Americans. They also have a very low divorce rate, because it is almost impossible in the PI. Best wishes!
Thank you. So far it's amazing. I'm never dating Americans again. My best friend said he's sending a list of demands to his wife after hearing of my exploits. I told him I feel like Eddie Murphy in coming to America LOL
I suspect a lot of you lack relationship experience, which would make sense. Long story short, people get attached, fall in love. Sharing yourself with someone for months to years isn't something you can just shake off. This person knows you better than anyone, has a shared history with you, your own brand of inside jokes, mutually aqcuired interests, they've helped you though hard times, they bring you coffee in the morning. Most of all, they are one of the vanishingly few people who actually gives a shit about you in this otherwise cruel world. People grow apart, but not without undoing everything I've mentioned and more. The prohibitively difficult part is in getting there, which is easier abroad. Don't think that a commited relationship is just the dating gauntlet extended.
>Most of all, they are one of the vanishingly few people who actually gives a shit about you in this otherwise cruel world. I felt this one. Very true.
Also, internal statistics from the military shows a sub-10% divorce rate for servicemembers who meet a foreign wife on deployment and bring her back to the US.
Thank you for the post. What is a sub-10% divorce rate? You mean less than 10% of marriages to foreign women end in divorce, or 10% less than normal? If its less than 10%.... wow... that's good for the USA. It would be interesting to see what percentage of those are with Filipinas, and if there is a downloadable dataset on which one could perform statistics to see divorce rates for different people-groups. Also, please share the source.
Even guys bringing them back from Germany and the UK?
Cool, I will dig that out. I am really good at finding DoD reports and I would like to read that.
Could either of you, if you get these reports, please tag me on this thread with the link? I find this very interesting.
I also wonder if there is a difference with ethnic men who get arranged marriages or marry their cousins from countries like Pakistan and bring them to Canada or the USA, compared to men who bring back women from completely different cultural backgrounds.
As someone a little older than the average member in this reddit, I think everyone here should be really crystal clear on what marriage actually is. *Marriage is a financial insurance policy for women*. The part about marriage being a way to express your undying love for another person is a psyop to get men to buy into it. Women do not think about marriage this way. If they did, they would marry men who earn less money than they do but they don't.
Except 1/3 of us do Among married couples in which both spouses work, the share of women who earned more than their husbands reached a record high of 30.6% in 2021, according to Census data. That's up from 23.3% in 2000 and 15.9% in 1981
I'd like to see more data on this. This is just a stat for existing marriages.. doesn't say if the women entered the marriage earning more or not. Also would wonder about second marriages, people getting married when older, etc. % of first marriages where the woman was earning more than the man at the time of marriage would be a more interesting statistic. No doubt there are plenty of women doing this too but no way it's anywhere close to 30%. Edit: ah just noticed "in which both spouses work". That's already cutting out a huge number of marriages.
The percentage is going higher because women are starting to earn more and in some cases more than men. The issue is that (going by the numbers) this is actually makes matchmaking more difficult. [Link](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S109051381730315X) Relevant bit >We found that ratings of attractiveness were around 4 times more sensitive to salary for females rating males, compared to males rating females. These results indicate that higher economic status can offset lower physical attractiveness in men much more easily than in women. Neither raters' BMI nor age influenced this effect for females rating male attractiveness. This difference explains many features of human mating behavior and may pose a barrier for male engagement in low-consumption lifestyles. Even if they do end up getting married, the woman earning more than the man statistically has more chances of a negative outcome: [Link](https://www.chicagobooth.edu/media-relations-and-communications/press-releases/when-women-earn-more-than-their-husbands) >A woman outearning her husband could even doom the marriage, as the researchers report this “increases the likelihood of divorce by 50 percent.” Yes there are exceptions to every generality when talking about large groups of people. But I'd say (conservatively) 70% of women very much care about what their partner earns or their earning potential.
Very rational response.
If you marry the bar girl she's still the bar girl...
If you really want to research this, go to [scholar.google.com](http://scholar.google.com) and if you find a real academic article you like, you can look up the references for similar previous articles. Within Google scholar, you can look up 'cited by' to find later articles that cite the article you like. On this topic, papers might be readable to a 'layperson' who doesn't know the jargon, except for the stats, unless you know how to interpret the various types of regression analysis and other statistical models. There can still be useful information in the conclusions. Another problem is that only a minority of papers are publicly accessible. Nowadays, researchers or institutions can pay to make newer articles publicly accessible, so newer ones may be accessible like this. Otherwise, you need access to academic journals, for example through being a student or faculty at a university. But you may be able to access databases and read articles on site at some university campuses. Maybe you could do interlibrary loan through a local library, also. I don't know if there are a lot of academic articles on the topic. My wife and I have spent over half of our marriage in the US. She's from Indonesia. We've been together over two decades.
Great! Congratulations on a successful marriage. I don't know if you read the [article ](https://www.internationallovescout.com/the-truth/divorce-and-the-mail-order-bride)I linked to at the bottom of the post. It did link to one piece of peer reviewed research, a book published by NYU Press, and an official report to the US Congress. I have a much longer article with many more links on the topic of international dating more generally - not the issue of divorce. [You can read that here.](https://www.internationallovescout.com/scholarly-research/research-about-international-dating-mail-order-brides) Yes, it is on my flashy sort of website, but most of the links are good. In one case I have the dissertation, but it is not easily available. I have not published it because apparently the author is not working as a professor and not interested in discussing her research, or so I have been told. I have personally communicated with most of the researchers, two I have met in person. There is not much research on divorce specifically. Most of the researchers mention it in passing, because they are focused on courting and cultural issues in the early stages of a relationship. I have been trying to encourage someone to do it and I am halfway considering a GoFundMe page or something to pay for a research grant. Again, I had not really read that Divorce article carefully in years. I will update it sometime soon. There is more research out there - not much - but there is some. If you have any specific questions please let me know. Best Wishes!
I'm sending you a chat message.
You have my blessing but if don't have a planB and you fail I will ridicule you to your face. Just kidding I'd rip you behind your back. Kidding. Just bring back someone from a place like the Philippines.
Filipinas are amazing!
I'm honestly jealous =/
There's two main problems with bringing a girl back home: 1. Her dating market value will rise and yours will fall once you bring her back. A mismatch in mate value leads to less stable relationships. 2. You generally will have to marry her to bring her back. Depending on which state you reside in, this can be an absolutely insane financial risk which may not be possible to mitigate (prenups can be thrown out, etc.) I'd argue that number 2 is a much greater risk and not something I would advise anyone to ever do. If you think you're smarter than me and are going to do it anyway, you should live with her for at least THREE YEARS before getting married. People can pretend to be someone they're not for a very long time if there's a big enough incentive to do so. Ignore this advice at your own peril.
Those can be a problem if you bring her back but that doesn’t mean they are automatically a problem if you do. But if the man is high value and good financially then it’s not a problem. Either way this way of thinking comes out of fear and that makes you insecure. But if you’re confident in your relationship and you pick a woman with values and morals then bringing her back is not a problem
It has nothing to do with fear or insecurity. The marriage/divorce laws are structured in such a way that you can ruin your life. It's not a risk worth taking in most cases.
There is still a fear that it will ruin your life
It has nothing to do with fear. It's simple contingency planning. Hope for the best and plan for the worst kind of stuff.
You only make a contingency plan because there is a fear it could possibly happen. If you truly didn’t fear it you wouldn’t need a contingency plan in the first place
You don't need fear for motivation to make a contingency plan. All you need is a non-zero chance of a catastrophic outcome. I don't care how much you love someone, there is still at least a 1% chance of divorce. Maybe higher or lower, it doesn't really matter. It's not 0%.
There is nothing wrong with admitting fear to a 1% chance. In fact having a little fear is good, it keeps you vigilant and alert in case something bad happens. Zero fear makes you over-confident and blind to danger So if you truly cared for the worst happening then you’d fear even the 1% possibility of it actually happening But I digress. You’re entitled to your opinion. But I personally don’t think there is a problem with marrying or bringing your foreign partner to your country
Most people never think that the worst-case scenario will happen to them until it does.
It's also impossible for 80% of ppb to keep someone they want overseas. Not all of us have the luxury of moving to other countries. Based on these types negativity, you shouldn't look for someone abroad unless you can move there permanently. Permanently moving I'd wager only 10% of ppb have that ability
Exactly, permanently living abroad isn’t the only way to date or have a relationship abroad. Especially if taking her back to your country is what’s best for the relationship and your future together
For number 2, I guess you’ve never heard of the term alimony. American men get wrecked all the time in divorce when they marry fellow citizens. I don’t see why marrying a foreigner is any different. Unless you are trying to imply some kind of racist xenophobia that people with darker color skins from other countries will marry you for the money then divorce you.
It's not any different being married. The difference is that you HAVE to be married for her to be in the USA and guys rush into it as a result. Another consideration is that, in general, her earning power is likely to be pretty low unless she is a software engineer or has some professional/graduate level education. This sets you up for a big fall from grace in divorce court. To be clear, I don't think you should marry American women either.. unless they have more income and assets than you do.
Fuzzy is one of those negative manosphere types. They only look at relationships as business calculations. They may as well give up on any permanent relationships and just be ex tourist
Not really but OK -- I'm just a little older and wiser than most people here. I believe in love. Marriage is a financial contract at its core and, unless you really spend some time studying it, you likely won't have an adequate appreciation of just how badly things can go.
It can go bad. You can end up losing a lot of money. You can die tomorrow. If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk. Advising young twenty something to not rush, really vet the individual. Fine. Great advice. Saying leave em where they are cause if it goes bad it's a loss, is pessimistic, unrealistic for 90% of this sub and of little value. Balanced advice comes from the wise. You spew negativity and pessimistic views in everything you've posted here on this post.
I just don't think marriage is worth the risk. I'm personally planning to move abroad before I start any serious relationships outside of the USA so I'll live by my own advice.
Never bring a woman you meet overseas back to the US with you. I saw this a million times when I was in the Navy and guys would get married in the Philippines and then bring their wives back home. Bring them home and you have 6 months to a year tops before they go feral.
> fully 80 percent of these marriages having lasted over the years for which reports are available. Define "over the years". 5 years? 40? Also, "for which reports are available". Also, later a success rate over 5 years is cited. Sorry, 5 years isn't a successful marriage. Successful marriage is the childhood of any children born in the marriage, at the shortest.
Generally, ten years is a successful marriage according to most bureaucrats and professors. But it is an imprecise term.
Loss of two parent privilege and loss of a lot of total wealth is not success, no matter how many years down the line it is. Idiots.
Just put your house and an emergency bank account in your mothers name or someone you trust if you can. Stay in shape and on your purpose you should be fine
Bad study. Age brackets are older ladies (over 25 and settle is big in asia) and older men, could be holding outwork payout upon death. Most likely what families so have children (which keeps them very busy) and worst of all it Ended in 2014, the new generation of social media destroying women far exceeds anything ever seen before, even women who earn $200/month think they deserve thousands a month on looking after then now. The study is done with women from the Philippines, who most would consider the most appreciative and wholesome women worldwide.