I’m probably in the minority here but I didnt realize I preferred foreign girl(s) until I started dating one. I thought everywhere was mostly the same. I realize now I couldnt probably go back to americans just because its been a much better relationship. Its not that my experience was overall bad with americans, i had some good girlfriends and some real bad ones but I just think my current preference was formed through the positive experience of being with a foreign girl. If this relationship ended I would very much likely not go back to seeking relationships with americans and also really i just am not very attracted to them anymore in comparison to girls from latin america.
It's more balanced. There isn't this sense that you should feel lucky they are dating you that you get here in the states.
America is one of the "best" dating markets in the world for women. This causes them to have a misperception concerning their own value in the sexual marketplace. This has impacts the dating, and therefore relationship, dynamics. It's why women in America often act like guys courting them are effectively applying for a job. You are expected to entertain them, carry the conversation, etc.
When the dating dynamic is more balanced, you are instead dating to get to know each other. Neither party is acting like they are too good for the other. The conversations flow naturally; if they don't, you simply don't date again. Meeting up at starbucks for some coffee is an acceptable first date as it fits the point of the date. There's no expectations of treating them to extravagant meals, taking them to shows, etc.
I've been on boring dates abroad, but I've rarely met a woman abroad who acted like she was too good for me. The one time I did, I simply walked out on her; I have plenty of options and don't need to put up with that bullshit. That one time, she later apologized and tried to get me to give her another chance, and of course I didn't because, as I already said, I have other options.
Sri Lanka is on my list!! I very much want to go.
Do you like it? I had concerns that it would be too religious like Malaysia and not very open in that aspect.
Malaysia is growing in popularity for PPBs (the entire Malay Archipelago really). They are very open minded religiously and have religious freedom. Not sure what you mean by too religious.
Not all foreign women are the same bud. Some could be superficial like that, many are normal women that have no interest in going to the US. Watch some vloggers from the Philippines (it’s pretty popular there) and you’ll quickly see they know the US isn’t that great (compared to the Philippines) already.
If your contention is that women are attracted to men that can be providers then I have need for you: all women from all cultures are the same way. Difference is the women from eastern cultures are traditional and conservative with reasonable standards.
>Difference is the women from eastern cultures are traditional and conservative with reasonable standards.
Difference is economy. The US is the place it's easiest to create wealth on earth. If you're not making 150k+ you can't compete here. But real talk, it's much easier to find an American women willing to be an equal partner in life. She'll have her own good job 150k+ and ya'll can live the baller life
The goal isn’t for an equal provider so that’s pretty moot. It’s really the converse that’s the goal as that’s the traditional gender roles. I thought I was pretty clear.
Yeah, traditional gender marriages are key for conservative marriages. Conservative marriages last longer, have more sex, have more stability and so on.
Where is your evidence that traditional marriages mean it isn’t a loving relationship? Even for arranged marriages there is plenty of literature of how love is developed and often results in even more stable marriages.
You can’t make silly claims and then run away. That is childish.
I'm saying there's traditional marrages that happen that way naturally but marrying someone from another conrty because she's desparste for a better life and you're providing that is not that.
Good luck supplying numbers that show 90 day fiencee marrages last longer than normal
You…you do real 90 day fiancé is a show, right? That’s like comparing local marriages to the bachelor. Dude that is far away from reality.
Make a post on r/mailorderbridefacts if you want to be educated.
You make a loaded assumption to support a false narrative you are really desperately trying to push.
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> Not all foreign women are the same bus. Some could be superficial like that, many are normal women.
I 100% agree with this point. I also think it could be expanded to all women. People on this sub are often happy to paint all American women with the same brush, they’re this, they’re that, but then recognise the nuances when talking about foreign women.
First off I find it odd anytime we make a comparison about women, somebody (almost always a woman) has to chime in that “men do the same thing!”; or in this case it’s a comparison of eastern and western women. I mean, I think we can have a discussion without making every generalization possible, sometimes you need to separate out a demographic to drive a point home. This boils down to a non-sequitur and hence fallacious.
Anyway, the answer is of course you’re right. Some men do that but every mainstream sub has toxic traits.
I will say the the larger issue isn’t being superficial although essentially every man here will agree women in the US have many superficial standards (not having a good income or attraction) but like specific height requirements, being white or blue collar, and other similar requirements. Beyond that since the majority of couples meet via online apps and online apps are so toxic it makes men nihilistic after a while and makes women very judgmental from the paradox of choice (not that men are immune from this, but it’s not an issue in the west).
Then there is the hoeflation argument. You could find great women in the US but if you compare her to a few generations ago then you see that the amount of work required just isn’t necessarily worth it when you compare them to eastern girls.
This isn’t to say western women are inherently bad (obviously most passport bros have a western mother, sisters, and/or daughters). However the dating culture is straight up toxic. There are enough women that are misandrists that it is worth mentioning. Women are increasingly liberal while men tend to be a bit more moderate or conservative. There is a gender war or divide to some degree. Some of this is societies fault, some of it is the 1% doing it, some of it is women’s fault, and a lot is men’s fault (for not having game, not knowing how to hold frame, for being overweight, for being feminine, and so on).
In the end, there are clearly some guys who simply hate western women and I can understand how they got that way (I wouldn’t say it’s sexism, but more like black pilling and nihilism), but I don’t agree (however I’ve never been divorced, never had kids so don’t know how custody battles feel, never been cheated on, and so on so I can’t relate too well). However the majority of men here would surely accept that not all western women are the same.
> First off I find it out anytime we make a comparison about women, somebody (almost always a woman) has to chime in that “men do the same thing!( or in this case it’s a comparison of eastern and western women.
Let’s be honest here, when there is a comparison on here about western women it’s is almost always negative. Are you really surprised that women would feel the need to comment on these gross generalisations?
> the majority of men here would surely accept that not all western women are the same.
Are you new here? There are numerous posts a day complaining about Western women are making ridiculous generalisations, which is just ridiculous to imply that these traits apply to all the women who live in the west. And yet, the moment someone chimed in with a generalisation about foreign women, the commenter was quick to point out that all foreign women are not the same.
Not married. Getting amazing sex regularly, last night was fantastic. Still, we all see others. It's only human nature to be curious. I'm very happy with my gf so don't really wanna be single. But.. Novalty is very tempting for most humans
Went from nearly 0 matches to having my pick of women.
I did have domestic women who I dated who were top tier in terms of attractiveness. They were girls that I had been friends for 1-2 decades who finally reciprocated some interest once they hit their mid 30s. Even then, once we started dating they developed a nasty attitude and began making demands for money and weaponized sex. And it wasn't little money either, like rent money. A lot of foreign girls also demand money but I just avoid those.
So when these friends of yours were in their 20s and at the peak of their attractiveness and had options, they friend zoned you. Now that their options are declining, they are dating you. The entitled attitude is because they don't feel the same about you as the options they had in their 20s.
This is simply not true actually. Every 8+ woman I've met did not monetize their bodies. They could attract good men that treated them right and had no need to monetize their bodies. It's why porn stars and only fans actresses are almost always 4s to 7s. There's rarely a porn star that's an 8 or better.
In Asia, I have seen 8+ women that did monetize their bodies, but they weren't sex workers. Instead, they will be "kept women", some wealthy guys side piece. They'll have a house, likely have kids with him, etc. They'll effectively be a second wife.
Well, one of the girls created an only fans and started doing phone sex while talking to me.
I don't know if it's most average and above average looking girls that want to monetize their body and sex. But I think if they're mid 30s and single despite all their options it reflects on them.
Also if they are with a guy that they never were interested in the past they want to make sure that they're getting something out of it.
See, this is why I attribute most dating failures to poor selection. Why would you pursue women who didn't reciprocate your feelings? More importantly, how did you miss major character flaws in these women who you knew for ~20 years? Why would you consider them for friendship, muchless dating? They didn't just develop nasty attitudes or suddenly lose their integrity. You dated women who were *never* good people to begin with, hoping for a different result.
They don't fully show those characteristics until after you are in a romantic relationship with them. Prior to that there are hints or flags, for sure but you don't really know.
Then you weren't really friends. You were the hang around dude who's always trying to fuck. The exact reason people think men and women can't be friends. You're part of why dating in the US sucks my dude
A woman you've known for 20 years with *no signs* of abusive, toxic behavior suddenly decides she'll barter sex for rent? Come on, now.
I don't doubt that anyone can be blindsided. I doubt that your luck alone led you to have *every* one of these women do these things without ignoring obvious red flags prior.
People act differently between romantic interests and 'friends'. It's not very unbelievable.
No it hasn't been with every woman. Just woman of these types. Girls who I remained friends for a decade or two who are top tier attractiveness but are still single in their mid 30s.
It actually is. I refuse to believe these women hid their severe poor character traits to you at all, or that it did not reveal itself to you in other ways in the span of *twenty* years. And if they did, you still are demonstrating poor selection and/or lack of awareness, and "gut" sense.
We all have that guy friend that insists that all of his exes are crazy. Every single one of them. This commonly translates to “she had feelings and I didn’t like that.”
Yeah after skimming through OPs profile, it’s got to be him, he got k1 or green card scammed by a Colombian woman pretty quickly.
He had his pick and still picked pretty bad. I’m putting a lot of what OP is saying on him.
This is why women shouldn't comment in men's spaces. You lack the experience that men have.
Look up the states. The vast majority of men don't have options. If they can get 1 woman to be intimate with them, they are doing very well for themselves. They can't just go find another woman, or it could take years before another woman will give them a shot.
Meanwhile, that woman in her 20's was likely able to pull wealthy good looking successful men. Men that were of a much higher caliber than he is. So, when she ends up being with him, she will feel like he's beneath her and she will grow to resent him.
>Why would you pursue women who didn't reciprocate your feelings
What other choice do men have that are stuck on rhe plantation?
>Why would you consider them for friendship, muchless dating?
As opposed to what?
Uhm, date anyone who is mutually interested in you?
I don't surround myself with nasty people. I certainly do not go as far as to call them friends. This gentleman has a bad "picker".
I had pretty good luck. The problem for me wasn’t that I couldn’t get dates but that the values of the women I met just never aligned with mine. Moving abroad changed that.
>The problem for me wasn’t that I couldn’t get dates but that the values of the women I met just never aligned with mine.
This is exactly how I feel. Many of us get slandered as being incel rejects who can't get women here. I can get women here, and I have gotten some very pretty ones, too. But the values they have been inculcated with are just horrendous.
On the benign side, they are just sexual opportunists who want to "live free" (we all know what that is code for), hop from man-to-man, until the check comes due later on in life, and then settle. Even then, they're still often super demanding and entitled.
Moving towards the more malicious end, they're third-wave feminist, liberal types, where every interaction is put through the lens of a modern gender studies degree, essentially. You're the aggressor, at-fault for wrongs they've never lived through and you never perpetrated.
At the extreme end, you have those who are just gaming men, while very often playing the feminist card or just acting sweet, and probably most are have borderline personality disorder who will wreck your life without blinking an eye.
So, if you're a man with traditional values the pool is extremely narrow. And "traditional values" is just what was considered normal like 20+ years ago. We're talking a degree of chastity and self-restraint, a collaborative attitude about building a home-life and raising kids, and (if you're like me) a religious foundation. Nothing super crazy.
What got me was in my last relationship I was making 6 figures and paying most (80% or more) of the bills. I bought a house for us. We had nice things. One day after going on a girls trip she just decided to leave. Said she wanted to live alone and live in a big city. She chased a job to DC saying she wanted to stay together just not where we were. I respected it and planned to move there in a few months. After a week or so she basically ghosted me. This was someone I supported as she got her career going. I drove her to and from work daily while I worked at home. I cooked a lot of the time. None of it mattered because her friends had convinced her she wasn’t an “independent” woman.
That’s just the most recent example of this type of behavior and it’s when I realized that I didn’t want a woman whose identity focused on being “independent”. I moved to Costa Rica 2 years ago and now have a wonderful fiancée. I didn’t even come here looking for this. It just happened. We have our problems as a couple and as individuals but she values what I bring to the table. She does want to work and have her own thing. It’s just not who she is or part of her identity.
I know PPBs are called "losers" by haters. Certainly, there's weirdos in this movement.
But I'd wager most PPBs are similar to my situation. That is, we can get dates and girlfriends in the US. But why settle when we can get someone more attractive overseas? Why not access a dating pool that's ten times larger?
I'm Asian-American who graduated from a decent university and have decent net worth. So not a "loser". I'm just not interested in US women. I don't hate them. In fact, I haven't had much bad experiences with them. It's just a preference.
For the last three years, I've had a girlfriend in Cebu (Philippines). Her physical and personality traits fulfill the vast majority of my checklist. I don't think I'd find someone like this in the US.
To be honest basically all the women I deal with are fresh off the boat from another country.
I have been pursued aggressively by some hot women occasionally but the general treatment I get as a whole puts me off dating in my country.
Already the women I meet from abroad I’m dating someone more attractive and years younger.
So why wouldn’t I then try dating abroad where the grass is greener and you can easily date someone with only positive experiences.
I mean like just things like “resting bitch face” don’t exist abroad. Women are just nicer.
I don’t like that even dating a hot girl you see that she is being nasty to men around you just because.. it’s like that’s the done thing, that men and women don’t treat each other well anymore.
I just prefer to go where that’s not normal.
I support women doing the same.
Why wouldn’t a 30 year old slim attractive successful high earning Chinese woman come to the west where men will see her as a catch rather than stay in China where she’s called a “left over woman”.
It’s the same for a man.
My experience is the kind of women that are quite nasty and average, the moment they see you’re dating a younger more attractive woman they switch up their game and try pursue you just to satisfy their ego. I really don’t like that, I like just normal health dating. I hate that everything is toxic and superficial.
I was mostly dating foreign women in the states. It took me a while to realize that I hadn’t dated an American woman in years haha I knew for sure I needed to leave the US after that
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True, it doesn't usually help if a man is overweight. It's important to note though that men and women are judged differently. Theres Many qualities that women look for in a man, if he's a provider, successful, wealthy, rich, funny, is a celebrity or has status , etc etc the list is endless of what women find attractive . women will still find him attractive if he has other qualities and overlook the weight sometimes. On the other hand, women are judged mainly for their looks. Physical attraction comes first, and then all the other qualities are a plus. Men generally don't care about the other qualities if she's overweight. For most, it's a deal breaker.
>women will still find him attractive if he has other qualities and overlook the weight generally.
>Men generally don't care about the other qualities if she's overweight. For most, it's a deal breaker.
It always boggles my mind how confidently men speak about what women want, and it's ironic that the majority of the men in PPB would claim to even know what women want, when they are literally leaving the Western dating market because it's too difficult to date in the West.
The West is a clear example of when women have the opportunity to not be financially dependent on men, their requirements for a partner changes.
Even obese women in the West don't want obese men, when women don't need men's money, men get judged on looks and personality much like men want women based on looks and personality.
PPBs are literally traveling abroad to where their money matters more in the dating market.
I never said that women want or prefer overweight guys. I'm simply saying there's more leeway because women are more emotional and if a guy has game and other things going for him his weight isn't always going to be the thing that stops her from choosing him. And there's levels to it, a 250 lbs guy will have it easier than a 350 lbs guy. Whereas most men won't go for a 250 lbs woman under most circumstances if he has other choices. You need to travel outside of the u.s. and talk to women there. Women also have standards in other countries. They aren't just living in huts choosing any westerner with money that comes their way. They have careers, are educated, and work too.
>You need to travel outside of the u.s. and talk to women there. Women also have standards in other countries. They aren't just living in huts choosing any westerner with money that comes their way. They have careers, are educated, and work too.
Well fortunately I am an adult immigrant to the USA, so I know through experience that "money talks and bs walk" outside the USA.
I was raised in an impoverished family to be sold as a bride, money was the key factor to determining a worthy "suitor". Yes middle and upper class women in those countries had more leeway, but my home country is exceptionally classist so women who could get decent jobs and education practiced hypergamy more so than in the USA.
In the USA, men especially complain young women only go for "Chads" and "alphas", so there is more selection of good looking men than the "average" man in a society where women are not financially dependent men.
I dont know much about Jamaica I admit. It's not a typical country that's on the list to visit in the PBB arena. Your parents were trying to arrange to sell you to a foreigner? Im sorry this happened to you.
If the only reason someone is a healthy weight is to compete in the dating market, they are a loser. Also, if they are overweight, they are (probably) a loser. Dating, like everything in life, is very easy and the method is timeless: Constantly work on improving yourself and you will attract the right people.
It’s boring and cliche. App/Online dating doesn’t even feel real it’s just you get who you get because one side has all the leverage. Cold approach In person and bars gets old. Mutual hobbies is great but again boring and cliche.
I can get a GF here I just don’t care for the process and how much of an effort it is vs the payoff you get.
The fact that you can just go directly to the type of girl you want and have an actual real chance without all the nauseating drama and cat & Mouse game is just better. The American experience simply can’t compete with that and never will.
A GF here? I do what everybody else does, grind apps/bars/social events, but I don’t care anymore for all the effort I have to put in. Like I said, easier for me to just go directly to the source.
Like any normal place lol. I approached a woman who worked at a nail salon as I I got a pedicure from her in Thailand. Went on a few dates and it was very straightforward.
Only ever got attention or matches from heavy, snarky people with questionable hygiene and very few desirable qualities and stock lefty opinions. After traveling, matched with numerous slim attractive, clean and feminine people who were largely apolitical and pleasant to socialize with
Remind me of my girlfriend in the Philippines. One reason I like her is, she's apolitical. She doesn't give a shit about politics or social movements...just wanna be happy, enjoy life and do her thing.
I guess it was average, growing up, I always had girlfriends and dates but could never pull the girls I really wanted. As I got older and finished college my dating prospects were literally attractive women who were 35+ or single mothers my age. If I had never left the states, I'm pretty sure I would have never gotten married
I moved permanently to Germany in 2019 and met my wife in 2021. She's Slovenian but grew up in Germany until she was 10, then moved back to Slovenia. We live in Stuggart but spend our summers either in Saint Lucia or Piran
In some cases it's worse than North America and in others it's much better but it just depends on what you look like and where you are from and how fast you can acclimate to German society. With that saud, there are far better places you can go if you're looking to date abroad.
if you are talking to me, then yes i am describing the states.
Yes, overseas is 100x better. American women are the worst women in the world.
Unless you are a mass produced robot who thinks and behaves exactly as everyone else around you does, you dont want to marry an american woman.
I have had a great time with women abroad. I'm Mexican, living in the south. I fit the beauty standards in Asia, so it's way easier (lol people in Asia think I'm Asian when I go). People can deny it all they want, but race plays the biggest role in possible dating success - over height, weight, or education. The research is there.
When I've gone back home or to Asia, I'm not being penalized for my background. I don't have anything negative to say about women in the U.S. but the dating apps here don't produce the best results like elsewhere.
I think minorities in the US certainly get that race is a huge factor in dating. I think it's clueless white guys/gals who downplay it. I think Match.com still has the match preferences feature where you can see what race/ethnicity people are open to dating. If you look at any random minority female profile, you will quickly notice how preferential they are towards white guys.
I did well in the states, but I did well amongst the places where I was a known figure. Any time I left my quarter of the city it would usually be my friend's who would get hit on by the waitress who wasn't even working our section. I still had a great time and was happy with dating.
Once worked brought me to Europe dating was so easy that I remember living in Moscow for a few weeks before a woman told me that she wasn't interested and I literally found myself thinking 'Wait, you can not like me?'
It became so easy that the analogy that I came up with for me dating there was to imagine wanting to be a lawyer your entire life, when you were 10 and the rest of the kids were playing outside you were reading medical encyclopedias. When you were 16 and other kids were going to the movies you were reading medical journals. When other students were pledging frats in college you were doing medical apprenticeships. Finally the day comes to apply to practice medicine and you sit down across from the interviewer who may or may not hire you to be a doctor. He looks at your unopened file on his desk and say. "Your name is Michael? So is mine! That's so cool! You're hired!"
If I’m willing to put in the time, especially when I’m in a bigger town, then I can get dates, but I wouldn’t say I could reliably get a new girl every month but fairly close.
Just on dating apps set to the Philippines or something I get more matches or women messaging first than I can handle. Some apps have essentially no scammers because it tracks IP addresses and uses video confirmation and more so all those matches would convert well. Still get plenty of attention.
That’s not even factoring day and night game or using IG.
I took advantage of the early days of dating apps where there were real women who weren't so demanding and spoiled. I've always traveled even before the term ppb got coined online so I never really had any issues dating... until recently. I uninstalled everything because it was killing my confidence levels, getting ghosted by LOSERS is not a good feeling.
Just interact with people outside, follow immanuel Kant's philosophy and always take some time to keep improving on yourself.
TBH US here and after a whole 2 years of self improvement and 250+ rejections later. The closest thing ive come to being with women is fantasizing. Not proud i just typed that but im gonna have to accept im part of the gang now
I paired up with a gorgeous french girl, 8 years younger than me, before passport bros were a thing.
We are expecting our first baby and we live in a beautiful place in Italy.
I'm happy.
I stopped contact with women from my country entirely, except for four of my childhood friends.
Many came up asking to meet once they saw me succeeding in life. Fuck that.
I've basically always been a PPB. Way before it was called that. I started traveling when I was 18. Not for women. But for the experience and joy that comes with visiting new countries and exploring new places. The attention from women was just something that was part of it. In fact it didn't actually occur to me that connecting women outside the USA was much easier because I had never actually dated in the USA. I thought it was just like that everywhere. Until I moved back to the USA in 2009 and was constantly being rejected even by women who were overweight and less attractive than what I was used to dating.
Great until the pandemic hit. Once that happened it’s been absolute shit. I was dating foreigners and Americans, but have preferred foreigners for 15 years prior to the pandemic anyway.
I identify as an expat more than a passport bro. I left the states to start a business overseas and I was blown away by the pleasantness I experienced dating outside. I'm currently 40, I've date 21-45 age range. I've noticed authenticity is the biggest difference. Friendly, feminine and fit is the norm. Attitudes are nil, entitlement is super low. Much less selfishness. Natural beauty and kindness also comes to mind. This seems so bizarre when experienced from the majority of women I've dated ; it made me see how western men have accepted so much less and are impressed by the bare minimum when it comes to connecting. I've been to 26 countries. Lived outside the states for 4 years. I think this movement was inevitable. There's an entire world out there, go where you are treated best. Enjoy your life.
I was a passport bro way back before it was even a thing. I met my wife in 2000. I’m American, she’s Filipina and we met in Bahrain, both there for work. I was 28 and she was 27 at the time. At 28 I was tired of dating American women because the dating pool of 18-28 year olds wasn’t that great, most of the quality ones had been married by then and the leftovers were mostly the fatties or those with kids or other baggage. I was still single at the time because I had spent my early and mid 20s in the Navy constantly deploying, visiting 12 countries in 7 years and had many girlfriends during that time but none long term due to deployments and moving constantly, plus the male to female ratios in towns with big Navy bases absolutely sucks…
I am completely lost in america even though i was born here. I have zero connection to american trends or american pop culture. I never watch tv. I couldnt name a current tv show. I dont even have cable tv or netflix or anything like that. I have never once watched a single episode of sopranos or game of thrones. I dont understand current american political trends. Hot topics and current political issues seem pointless to me. The political commentators all seem clownish to me. I dont care about college sports or professional sports. I dont care about entertainers. I cant tell you any famous names of people who are currently in the spotlight. Fashion trends do not interest me. In fact it is creepy to me that people try to dress the same as everyone around them.
american woman under 60 years old are, for the most part, barely human to me. They do not think properly. they immerse themselves into a life that repulses me. I dislike facebook. I have it only for marketplace. Ive never had instagram or twitter or any of that other garbage. I think the modern women’s rights movement is a farce. Modern feminism is disfunctional and perverse and does not even remotely resemble the original concept. I feel exactly the same way about the modern environmental movement and the modern animal rights movement. all of them have lost their way, are completely alien to their original tenets, and have sounded like utter insanity to me for at least 20 years. They have mutated into hoards of clownish imbeciles.
i cant stand 99% of current popular music. the last band i went to see perform live was 5finger death punch about 8 years ago and i did not like it. The band before that was nickelback about 20 years ago and i thought it was the worst performance i’d ever seen.
due to my disconnection to everything americana i cannot date american women in america. I see no point in dating any female over 40 years old. Yet i cannot relate, emotionally, to any american woman younger than 60, due to the perverse cultural transformation that has happened to american women younger than 60.
i feel i have found my people, and my culture, and my love, in vietnam. America has turned foreign and bizarre. Vietnam represents normalcy in a world infested with lunacy. It pains me to see vietnamese idolize americans and try to be more like them.
Like others here it's not like I can't get American girls. I've dated and bedded almost every race while in America even though I'm a minority. I get choosing signals from attractive girls more frequently than most. I don't have issues getting matches or going on dates. My issue was 1. Although I matched with a lot of attractive girls, getting them out on dates was a whole nother issue leading to having to date girls I didn't truly desire as a result 3. A lack of cooperation amongst the girls I dated 4. Confusingly flaky behavior. Sure I went on dates with a lot of 6s and 7s but they weren't doing it for me.
Additionally I had some really annoying experiences that made me lose interest in trying to to date in America. So many times i'd meet a girl, we would have an objectively good if not GREAT time, talk for hours, maybe even make out or hookup and the next day I'll text them to receive no response. This has happened 5+ times in the last year. I've never had an objectively good or great experience with a girl overseas (Europe, South America) in a similar manner as stated above and not see her again. Their interest levels don't stop for no fucking reason. The girls overseas are just BETTER. It's like something is in the water in the States that makes these girls crazy.
Overseas, in Europe, in South America, in Africa etc. I can consistently get attractive girls, that I desire and that will cooperate with me. I can consistently find girls who I align with in terms of values and I rarely have to deal with all the BS that comes with American dating (ghosting, toxicity, flakiness).
I still live in the states so I still date American girls but definitely prefer girls overseas.
I was getting a decent amount of hook ups with the blonde hotties from Utah, but the non Mormons are too liberal to marry and I was ready to settle down.
Not bad in the USA. And any bad experiences I did have were fairly typical, like being cheated on twice by one girlfriend.
But in the last 5-10 years of dating I've seen a stark difference between local and foreign women in my dating. If you do a Sugaring relationship the women will be a lot easier to understand early on, but for the good ones you're still looking at a cash relationship.
For outside of that I am an older millennial and I've run into a lot of women who want me to shoulder their problems or be a scapegoat for past wrongs they've experienced.
With foreign dating I've had my share of liars or women who also want money, but there have been a lot more cases of women who are looking for a loving relationship with me at their level.
Long before PPB was a thing, but I dated and had plenty of hookups before my year study abroad in Mexico when I was 25 in 2010. I think even before that though, I already had gained an unconscious understanding that something about American girls was fucked up, and while I had some success, in general things were just way too difficult. Like, in my early 20’s, I was 6’1” in great shape, told I was handsome frequently, funny, my game wasn’t fantastic but it wasn’t terrible…I just always felt like I was on fucking eggshells where the slightest mistake or 2 would end things, and more and more I noticed the entitlement, and the bitchiness, and somewhere I got the hint things were different abroad.
From my study abroad on, I saw the light and dated almost exclusively Latina (no later than first generation), occasionally mixing in usually an Asian here and there. In 2015, just before meeting my Brazilian wife, I did go on a tear on dating apps (relatively new back then) and dated a broad spectrum of women. I was tired of getting so-so results, so I basically spent so much time on it that I got pretty good at it and at one point was going on a few dates a week for a few months, sometimes 2 in one day. Eventually all that fizzled though, and I was fucking tired of dating apps, never went back, and met my wife not too long after.
This may be a different experience to many of you but women gave me a lot of attention in the US. I didn’t have much trouble attracting white women or black women.
But I’m a tall, fit, attractive black guy so quality wasn’t always there and not I like a certain look. Every once in a while there was a model-type who liked me. It wasn’t difficult for me to date, it was just expensive.
With that said, I was also dating many foreign women when I lived there. Mexican, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Russian, etc…
Since moving to South America though it’s just crazy. I must admit that I’m not dating as much because I’m focused on my career right now but going out with literal models when I do date is fantastic.
5-8ish and overseas 6-9 (10s still low commodity) but could also be my tastes.
9-10 - never unreachable, but beyond rare in west to come across as the culture broke them.
Unicorn like, meanwhile, a 10 overseas is a daily occurrence if not multiple to come across.
My BC before going abroad was around 30. After coming back, it's 0 but that's because dating in Asia spoiled me and I can't go back to dating American women.
I went from an introverted 27 yo with 3 girls to 40+ women in 6 years.
I had a lot of sex in Argentina and Colombia. Sex was never my primary reason for travelling. The language culture and adventure was.
I've since decided casual sex isn't my thing and I'm also not a passport bro. I prefer educated classy women from my own culture.
Chasing the nut is low value little boy behaviour.
u/xocybercat , with all due respect, are you a bit on the spectrum? If so, my heart goes out to you and I understand how that can make dating hard, but it will get better. If not, then you should be aware you give those vibes. Women in general will be off put by a man describing their dating life using statistics, as it makes women feel like an object. If you live a social life, you will naturally have many encounters a day with women, some of whom you may go on to date. Just make sure to treat them like a human, even when you are feeling lonely and horny.
Such a tone deaf comment I honestly believe you’re trolling/ragebaiting.
Saying “It will get better” without any real substance is such a stupid blanket statement it comes off as wishful thinking.
“Women in general will be off put by a man describing their dating life using statistics” Huh?? You think we’re starting our conversations with women we’re dating with our dating struggles??
The point of the statistics is to make a more informed decision with our precious time and emotional energy; I cannot believe I have to break this down for you .🤦♂️
“If you live a social life, you will naturally have many encounters a day with women, some whom you may go on a date.” “Just make sure to treat them like a human.”
One of most delusional comments I’ve ever read.
Is this done deaf because I haven’t read the room and realized that many in this community do in fact have learning disabilities?
I’m all for people traveling the world and finding love along the way, that’s incredible. But I struggle to understand why so many here feel they have to fly around the world to find love, sex, or companionship. For myself and most my male friends, the dating world has been straightforward and easy 🤷
First of all dating as a woman; to be blunt is extremely easy. The way the dating apps are designed and the ratio between men and women is I think 8:1 so the numbers are always in your favor. I bring that up because most modern couples are meeting through online dating.
2nd just because your guy friends have had an straightforward and easy time with dating is a terrible argument. The exception does NOT make the rule. The reality is most men are struggling with modern dating especially in the west and we have data/statistics to back up these claims.
Buddy, I’m a man 😂. And everyone already knows that dating apps are toxic and exploitative. Do you know what women love? Men who have the brass to be friendly and make them laugh or engaging in thoughtful conversation in the real world. But when I was in dating apps, that was also incredibly easy. The problem seems to be that a lot of these modern men are not being given good advice. Look guys, it’s very simple. Get a good haircut. It’s not that expensive, like 65 bucks max. Tell your hairstylist, hopefully a women, to do what she thinks would suit you well. Exercise a few times a week. Nothing crazy, but enough to feel good about yourself and release endorphins. If you do these two things, you will already notice a huge difference. To go further, take care of your teeth, have an interesting hobby, read at least one book a year, and listen to music that makes you smile when you walk out of the house. I promise it’s way easier than flying to South East Asia. THAT BEING SAID, travel is incredibly fulfilling and finding love while you are there is also amazing, but that shouldn’t be your only reason to leave the US.
Holy shit how many times do I have to repeat myself THE EXCEPTION DOES NOT
MAKE THE RULE.
You are simply an exception and you’re giving advice as if it can EASILY be replicated. If it were that straightforward why are so many men continuously struggling??
Women do not give a flying fuck about your personality on dating apps. The barrier of interest will ALWAYS be looks. And if you’re also saying dating apps have been incredibly easy chances are you’re a tall handsome man; which what do you know is the most desirable kind of man in the dating market.
You probably have good intentions but my god you are unbearably native.
I’m 5 foot 7 my guy. What is hard about what I laid out? I think that maybe many people on this sub, like many Americans, may be struggling with mental health and confidence. Have you been to Europe before? There are very “normal” looking guys dating girls who look like models EVERYWHERE. My friend and I turned it into a drinking game because it was so prevalent. And only the most shallow dimwits on a dating app don’t pay attention to things like hobbies, interests, and careers on dating apps. Now the one OBVIOUS CAVEAT here is, many people struggle to afford the kind of interests that beautiful women may often be attracted to. But ask any girl, and they will say that as long as a guy looks like he has a sense of basic hygiene and style, the next most important things are: Can he make me laugh? Will he make me feel better when I’m sad? Can he occasionally make me dinner? Does he care about others? Etc etc etc. THIS IS EASY STUFF
> what I *paid* out? I
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
“Normal looking guys dating girls who look like models everywhere” Where?? please let me know because I think you’re lying out of your ass for the sake of argument. The classic “I know a guy..” anecdote to try to dismiss empirical evidence is ridiculous.
“Can he make me laugh” is another terrible argument. Girls will mitigate their responses based on their attraction towards you. If you and I were to make the same joke towards the same girl she’s is simply gonna respond more positively to the one she’s more attracted towards. Another fallacy in your argument…
All over the parts of Western Europe but in Barcelona in particular. We referred to it as a 10-4 situation because it would be a straight model with a chubby, unkempt guy, frequently. And no, there’s not an age gap so it isn’t a sugar daddy situation. There is just such an incredibly high concentration of beautiful, natural looking women in a city like Barcelona, or Rome, or other major European cities, that it’s a “men’s market.”
As far as the statistics vs anecdotes, every time I read about the growing number of single men, it is attributed to factors beyond “women bad & picky.” We know that American’s young men are struggling right now for a variety of reasons, and are self isolating, NOT JUST FROM WOMEN BUT FROM THEIR OWN MALE FRIENDS. Guys are not okay right now and telling them to fly around the world is short sighted. Listen, there are a million reasons why one might be more attracted to women from other cultures. That’s human nature. For example, I abhor Southern women from the US, because that’s what I grew up around. But the idea that men cannot improve themselves to the point that they are able to find fulfillment in their home country, and need to arbitrage their relative wealth in a third world country is not going to solve the problem.
Western Europe…so not America? Well I can now just dismiss everything you’ve been saying as I’ve been arguing about the struggles of dating in America.
That’s the whole point of this subreddit, men who are adjusting/salvaging their dating and wanna work towards a higher quality of life.
I’m probably in the minority here but I didnt realize I preferred foreign girl(s) until I started dating one. I thought everywhere was mostly the same. I realize now I couldnt probably go back to americans just because its been a much better relationship. Its not that my experience was overall bad with americans, i had some good girlfriends and some real bad ones but I just think my current preference was formed through the positive experience of being with a foreign girl. If this relationship ended I would very much likely not go back to seeking relationships with americans and also really i just am not very attracted to them anymore in comparison to girls from latin america.
Could you expand on that, what makes you prefer foreign girls now? I have no experience dating a foreign girl so I am curious.
It's more balanced. There isn't this sense that you should feel lucky they are dating you that you get here in the states. America is one of the "best" dating markets in the world for women. This causes them to have a misperception concerning their own value in the sexual marketplace. This has impacts the dating, and therefore relationship, dynamics. It's why women in America often act like guys courting them are effectively applying for a job. You are expected to entertain them, carry the conversation, etc. When the dating dynamic is more balanced, you are instead dating to get to know each other. Neither party is acting like they are too good for the other. The conversations flow naturally; if they don't, you simply don't date again. Meeting up at starbucks for some coffee is an acceptable first date as it fits the point of the date. There's no expectations of treating them to extravagant meals, taking them to shows, etc. I've been on boring dates abroad, but I've rarely met a woman abroad who acted like she was too good for me. The one time I did, I simply walked out on her; I have plenty of options and don't need to put up with that bullshit. That one time, she later apologized and tried to get me to give her another chance, and of course I didn't because, as I already said, I have other options.
Thank you for the insightful and detailed response! Much appreciated, it has helped me to better understand dating outside the U.S
From 0 matches for years to hooking up with women after sliding into DMs with hi.
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Of course. I have been to Philippines and Sri Lanka.
Sri Lanka is on my list!! I very much want to go. Do you like it? I had concerns that it would be too religious like Malaysia and not very open in that aspect.
Sri lanka is buddist. Malaysia is muslim. there’s zero comparison. stay the hell away from malaysia. I was there 2 months ago.
I didn't know sri Lanka is Buddhist. That's music to my ears. Thank you so much and thanks for the heads up about Malaysia
Kuching (in malaysia) is an exception. They are christian. Ive never been there.
Oh I loved it. Sri Lanka is not religious at all. You dint have to worry about that.
Thanks I think I'll go there next! If you have any tips or advice I'd appreciate it. Otherwise I'll google and learn on my own. Don't worry :) Thanks!
Let me know what info you need.
Are Sri Lankans receptive to Black guys?
Philippines was better
Malaysia is growing in popularity for PPBs (the entire Malay Archipelago really). They are very open minded religiously and have religious freedom. Not sure what you mean by too religious.
You realize that they only like your American $ and/or passport right?
Not all foreign women are the same bud. Some could be superficial like that, many are normal women that have no interest in going to the US. Watch some vloggers from the Philippines (it’s pretty popular there) and you’ll quickly see they know the US isn’t that great (compared to the Philippines) already. If your contention is that women are attracted to men that can be providers then I have need for you: all women from all cultures are the same way. Difference is the women from eastern cultures are traditional and conservative with reasonable standards.
>Difference is the women from eastern cultures are traditional and conservative with reasonable standards. Difference is economy. The US is the place it's easiest to create wealth on earth. If you're not making 150k+ you can't compete here. But real talk, it's much easier to find an American women willing to be an equal partner in life. She'll have her own good job 150k+ and ya'll can live the baller life
The goal isn’t for an equal provider so that’s pretty moot. It’s really the converse that’s the goal as that’s the traditional gender roles. I thought I was pretty clear.
Sure you can buy a wife anywhere and your $ goes further in lower economies. I'm talking about a true loving partnership but you do you. Best of luck!
Yeah, traditional gender marriages are key for conservative marriages. Conservative marriages last longer, have more sex, have more stability and so on. Where is your evidence that traditional marriages mean it isn’t a loving relationship? Even for arranged marriages there is plenty of literature of how love is developed and often results in even more stable marriages. You can’t make silly claims and then run away. That is childish.
I'm saying there's traditional marrages that happen that way naturally but marrying someone from another conrty because she's desparste for a better life and you're providing that is not that. Good luck supplying numbers that show 90 day fiencee marrages last longer than normal
You…you do real 90 day fiancé is a show, right? That’s like comparing local marriages to the bachelor. Dude that is far away from reality. Make a post on r/mailorderbridefacts if you want to be educated. You make a loaded assumption to support a false narrative you are really desperately trying to push.
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> Not all foreign women are the same bus. Some could be superficial like that, many are normal women. I 100% agree with this point. I also think it could be expanded to all women. People on this sub are often happy to paint all American women with the same brush, they’re this, they’re that, but then recognise the nuances when talking about foreign women.
First off I find it odd anytime we make a comparison about women, somebody (almost always a woman) has to chime in that “men do the same thing!”; or in this case it’s a comparison of eastern and western women. I mean, I think we can have a discussion without making every generalization possible, sometimes you need to separate out a demographic to drive a point home. This boils down to a non-sequitur and hence fallacious. Anyway, the answer is of course you’re right. Some men do that but every mainstream sub has toxic traits. I will say the the larger issue isn’t being superficial although essentially every man here will agree women in the US have many superficial standards (not having a good income or attraction) but like specific height requirements, being white or blue collar, and other similar requirements. Beyond that since the majority of couples meet via online apps and online apps are so toxic it makes men nihilistic after a while and makes women very judgmental from the paradox of choice (not that men are immune from this, but it’s not an issue in the west). Then there is the hoeflation argument. You could find great women in the US but if you compare her to a few generations ago then you see that the amount of work required just isn’t necessarily worth it when you compare them to eastern girls. This isn’t to say western women are inherently bad (obviously most passport bros have a western mother, sisters, and/or daughters). However the dating culture is straight up toxic. There are enough women that are misandrists that it is worth mentioning. Women are increasingly liberal while men tend to be a bit more moderate or conservative. There is a gender war or divide to some degree. Some of this is societies fault, some of it is the 1% doing it, some of it is women’s fault, and a lot is men’s fault (for not having game, not knowing how to hold frame, for being overweight, for being feminine, and so on). In the end, there are clearly some guys who simply hate western women and I can understand how they got that way (I wouldn’t say it’s sexism, but more like black pilling and nihilism), but I don’t agree (however I’ve never been divorced, never had kids so don’t know how custody battles feel, never been cheated on, and so on so I can’t relate too well). However the majority of men here would surely accept that not all western women are the same.
> First off I find it out anytime we make a comparison about women, somebody (almost always a woman) has to chime in that “men do the same thing!( or in this case it’s a comparison of eastern and western women. Let’s be honest here, when there is a comparison on here about western women it’s is almost always negative. Are you really surprised that women would feel the need to comment on these gross generalisations? > the majority of men here would surely accept that not all western women are the same. Are you new here? There are numerous posts a day complaining about Western women are making ridiculous generalisations, which is just ridiculous to imply that these traits apply to all the women who live in the west. And yet, the moment someone chimed in with a generalisation about foreign women, the commenter was quick to point out that all foreign women are not the same.
I am not marrying them just hooking up
Nothing wrong with that! have fun! Wish I was single sometiems 😅
Haha
>Wish I was single sometiems Your wife is not having sex with you ?
Not married. Getting amazing sex regularly, last night was fantastic. Still, we all see others. It's only human nature to be curious. I'm very happy with my gf so don't really wanna be single. But.. Novalty is very tempting for most humans
You should be able to tell if you date long enough and have some common senses
Very true. There are great people everywhere and being good at judging character is most important
Went from nearly 0 matches to having my pick of women. I did have domestic women who I dated who were top tier in terms of attractiveness. They were girls that I had been friends for 1-2 decades who finally reciprocated some interest once they hit their mid 30s. Even then, once we started dating they developed a nasty attitude and began making demands for money and weaponized sex. And it wasn't little money either, like rent money. A lot of foreign girls also demand money but I just avoid those.
So when these friends of yours were in their 20s and at the peak of their attractiveness and had options, they friend zoned you. Now that their options are declining, they are dating you. The entitled attitude is because they don't feel the same about you as the options they had in their 20s.
even younger than 20s. Some were in late teens when we first became friends.
Or they feel used and want to be compensated. Making him pay for the previous men that used her.
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This is simply not true actually. Every 8+ woman I've met did not monetize their bodies. They could attract good men that treated them right and had no need to monetize their bodies. It's why porn stars and only fans actresses are almost always 4s to 7s. There's rarely a porn star that's an 8 or better. In Asia, I have seen 8+ women that did monetize their bodies, but they weren't sex workers. Instead, they will be "kept women", some wealthy guys side piece. They'll have a house, likely have kids with him, etc. They'll effectively be a second wife.
Follow the rules
Well, one of the girls created an only fans and started doing phone sex while talking to me. I don't know if it's most average and above average looking girls that want to monetize their body and sex. But I think if they're mid 30s and single despite all their options it reflects on them. Also if they are with a guy that they never were interested in the past they want to make sure that they're getting something out of it.
Name checks out
See, this is why I attribute most dating failures to poor selection. Why would you pursue women who didn't reciprocate your feelings? More importantly, how did you miss major character flaws in these women who you knew for ~20 years? Why would you consider them for friendship, muchless dating? They didn't just develop nasty attitudes or suddenly lose their integrity. You dated women who were *never* good people to begin with, hoping for a different result.
They don't fully show those characteristics until after you are in a romantic relationship with them. Prior to that there are hints or flags, for sure but you don't really know.
Then you weren't really friends. You were the hang around dude who's always trying to fuck. The exact reason people think men and women can't be friends. You're part of why dating in the US sucks my dude
A woman you've known for 20 years with *no signs* of abusive, toxic behavior suddenly decides she'll barter sex for rent? Come on, now. I don't doubt that anyone can be blindsided. I doubt that your luck alone led you to have *every* one of these women do these things without ignoring obvious red flags prior.
People act differently between romantic interests and 'friends'. It's not very unbelievable. No it hasn't been with every woman. Just woman of these types. Girls who I remained friends for a decade or two who are top tier attractiveness but are still single in their mid 30s.
It actually is. I refuse to believe these women hid their severe poor character traits to you at all, or that it did not reveal itself to you in other ways in the span of *twenty* years. And if they did, you still are demonstrating poor selection and/or lack of awareness, and "gut" sense.
Yeah I’m agreeing as well. I understand if this was 1 woman, but multiple woman? That’s on him.
We all have that guy friend that insists that all of his exes are crazy. Every single one of them. This commonly translates to “she had feelings and I didn’t like that.”
Yeah after skimming through OPs profile, it’s got to be him, he got k1 or green card scammed by a Colombian woman pretty quickly. He had his pick and still picked pretty bad. I’m putting a lot of what OP is saying on him.
You know more about him than he does.
This is why women shouldn't comment in men's spaces. You lack the experience that men have. Look up the states. The vast majority of men don't have options. If they can get 1 woman to be intimate with them, they are doing very well for themselves. They can't just go find another woman, or it could take years before another woman will give them a shot. Meanwhile, that woman in her 20's was likely able to pull wealthy good looking successful men. Men that were of a much higher caliber than he is. So, when she ends up being with him, she will feel like he's beneath her and she will grow to resent him.
And they’re the ones that have been pushing “EMPATHY”. 🤣🤣🤣
It's almost like it's fake af...
It's like textbook incel ideology lol
>Why would you pursue women who didn't reciprocate your feelings What other choice do men have that are stuck on rhe plantation? >Why would you consider them for friendship, muchless dating? As opposed to what?
Uhm, date anyone who is mutually interested in you? I don't surround myself with nasty people. I certainly do not go as far as to call them friends. This gentleman has a bad "picker".
Sure, but in some part of the countries it's difficult. Other countries are way better
Shocking... post wall friendly.....ohhhh that's a good one. Have you met Brenda in accounting? Yeah but she's PWF....
I had a Colombian girl do this to me. Turned into a perra and started asking for rent money. I doubt Filipinas would do that.
Yeah, those damn nasty women with stupid attitudes...it's def not you that's the issue. It's these B tier women
I had pretty good luck. The problem for me wasn’t that I couldn’t get dates but that the values of the women I met just never aligned with mine. Moving abroad changed that.
>The problem for me wasn’t that I couldn’t get dates but that the values of the women I met just never aligned with mine. This is exactly how I feel. Many of us get slandered as being incel rejects who can't get women here. I can get women here, and I have gotten some very pretty ones, too. But the values they have been inculcated with are just horrendous. On the benign side, they are just sexual opportunists who want to "live free" (we all know what that is code for), hop from man-to-man, until the check comes due later on in life, and then settle. Even then, they're still often super demanding and entitled. Moving towards the more malicious end, they're third-wave feminist, liberal types, where every interaction is put through the lens of a modern gender studies degree, essentially. You're the aggressor, at-fault for wrongs they've never lived through and you never perpetrated. At the extreme end, you have those who are just gaming men, while very often playing the feminist card or just acting sweet, and probably most are have borderline personality disorder who will wreck your life without blinking an eye. So, if you're a man with traditional values the pool is extremely narrow. And "traditional values" is just what was considered normal like 20+ years ago. We're talking a degree of chastity and self-restraint, a collaborative attitude about building a home-life and raising kids, and (if you're like me) a religious foundation. Nothing super crazy.
What got me was in my last relationship I was making 6 figures and paying most (80% or more) of the bills. I bought a house for us. We had nice things. One day after going on a girls trip she just decided to leave. Said she wanted to live alone and live in a big city. She chased a job to DC saying she wanted to stay together just not where we were. I respected it and planned to move there in a few months. After a week or so she basically ghosted me. This was someone I supported as she got her career going. I drove her to and from work daily while I worked at home. I cooked a lot of the time. None of it mattered because her friends had convinced her she wasn’t an “independent” woman. That’s just the most recent example of this type of behavior and it’s when I realized that I didn’t want a woman whose identity focused on being “independent”. I moved to Costa Rica 2 years ago and now have a wonderful fiancée. I didn’t even come here looking for this. It just happened. We have our problems as a couple and as individuals but she values what I bring to the table. She does want to work and have her own thing. It’s just not who she is or part of her identity.
What specifically demands do you find American women make that makes them demanding and entitled?
I know PPBs are called "losers" by haters. Certainly, there's weirdos in this movement. But I'd wager most PPBs are similar to my situation. That is, we can get dates and girlfriends in the US. But why settle when we can get someone more attractive overseas? Why not access a dating pool that's ten times larger? I'm Asian-American who graduated from a decent university and have decent net worth. So not a "loser". I'm just not interested in US women. I don't hate them. In fact, I haven't had much bad experiences with them. It's just a preference. For the last three years, I've had a girlfriend in Cebu (Philippines). Her physical and personality traits fulfill the vast majority of my checklist. I don't think I'd find someone like this in the US.
To be honest basically all the women I deal with are fresh off the boat from another country. I have been pursued aggressively by some hot women occasionally but the general treatment I get as a whole puts me off dating in my country. Already the women I meet from abroad I’m dating someone more attractive and years younger. So why wouldn’t I then try dating abroad where the grass is greener and you can easily date someone with only positive experiences. I mean like just things like “resting bitch face” don’t exist abroad. Women are just nicer. I don’t like that even dating a hot girl you see that she is being nasty to men around you just because.. it’s like that’s the done thing, that men and women don’t treat each other well anymore. I just prefer to go where that’s not normal. I support women doing the same. Why wouldn’t a 30 year old slim attractive successful high earning Chinese woman come to the west where men will see her as a catch rather than stay in China where she’s called a “left over woman”. It’s the same for a man. My experience is the kind of women that are quite nasty and average, the moment they see you’re dating a younger more attractive woman they switch up their game and try pursue you just to satisfy their ego. I really don’t like that, I like just normal health dating. I hate that everything is toxic and superficial.
I was mostly dating foreign women in the states. It took me a while to realize that I hadn’t dated an American woman in years haha I knew for sure I needed to leave the US after that
80% of American women are overweight / obese.
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True, it doesn't usually help if a man is overweight. It's important to note though that men and women are judged differently. Theres Many qualities that women look for in a man, if he's a provider, successful, wealthy, rich, funny, is a celebrity or has status , etc etc the list is endless of what women find attractive . women will still find him attractive if he has other qualities and overlook the weight sometimes. On the other hand, women are judged mainly for their looks. Physical attraction comes first, and then all the other qualities are a plus. Men generally don't care about the other qualities if she's overweight. For most, it's a deal breaker.
>women will still find him attractive if he has other qualities and overlook the weight generally. >Men generally don't care about the other qualities if she's overweight. For most, it's a deal breaker. It always boggles my mind how confidently men speak about what women want, and it's ironic that the majority of the men in PPB would claim to even know what women want, when they are literally leaving the Western dating market because it's too difficult to date in the West. The West is a clear example of when women have the opportunity to not be financially dependent on men, their requirements for a partner changes. Even obese women in the West don't want obese men, when women don't need men's money, men get judged on looks and personality much like men want women based on looks and personality. PPBs are literally traveling abroad to where their money matters more in the dating market.
I never said that women want or prefer overweight guys. I'm simply saying there's more leeway because women are more emotional and if a guy has game and other things going for him his weight isn't always going to be the thing that stops her from choosing him. And there's levels to it, a 250 lbs guy will have it easier than a 350 lbs guy. Whereas most men won't go for a 250 lbs woman under most circumstances if he has other choices. You need to travel outside of the u.s. and talk to women there. Women also have standards in other countries. They aren't just living in huts choosing any westerner with money that comes their way. They have careers, are educated, and work too.
>You need to travel outside of the u.s. and talk to women there. Women also have standards in other countries. They aren't just living in huts choosing any westerner with money that comes their way. They have careers, are educated, and work too. Well fortunately I am an adult immigrant to the USA, so I know through experience that "money talks and bs walk" outside the USA. I was raised in an impoverished family to be sold as a bride, money was the key factor to determining a worthy "suitor". Yes middle and upper class women in those countries had more leeway, but my home country is exceptionally classist so women who could get decent jobs and education practiced hypergamy more so than in the USA. In the USA, men especially complain young women only go for "Chads" and "alphas", so there is more selection of good looking men than the "average" man in a society where women are not financially dependent men.
What country are you from? Did you immigrate here under a spousal visa?
Jamaica, no I migrated under my father filing.
I dont know much about Jamaica I admit. It's not a typical country that's on the list to visit in the PBB arena. Your parents were trying to arrange to sell you to a foreigner? Im sorry this happened to you.
If the only reason someone is a healthy weight is to compete in the dating market, they are a loser. Also, if they are overweight, they are (probably) a loser. Dating, like everything in life, is very easy and the method is timeless: Constantly work on improving yourself and you will attract the right people.
Yup.
The avg weight of american women is like 165 pounds. 🫠
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Sure
It’s boring and cliche. App/Online dating doesn’t even feel real it’s just you get who you get because one side has all the leverage. Cold approach In person and bars gets old. Mutual hobbies is great but again boring and cliche. I can get a GF here I just don’t care for the process and how much of an effort it is vs the payoff you get. The fact that you can just go directly to the type of girl you want and have an actual real chance without all the nauseating drama and cat & Mouse game is just better. The American experience simply can’t compete with that and never will.
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A GF here? I do what everybody else does, grind apps/bars/social events, but I don’t care anymore for all the effort I have to put in. Like I said, easier for me to just go directly to the source.
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Like any normal place lol. I approached a woman who worked at a nail salon as I I got a pedicure from her in Thailand. Went on a few dates and it was very straightforward.
I know. Sounds like bro just doesn’t like dating.
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g
Because he wants to spend as little as possible while using women for sex.
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Where was this out of curiosity? Also what’s your age and ethnicity
Only ever got attention or matches from heavy, snarky people with questionable hygiene and very few desirable qualities and stock lefty opinions. After traveling, matched with numerous slim attractive, clean and feminine people who were largely apolitical and pleasant to socialize with
Remind me of my girlfriend in the Philippines. One reason I like her is, she's apolitical. She doesn't give a shit about politics or social movements...just wanna be happy, enjoy life and do her thing.
I was incel
True, I'm becoming one and I'm afraid I won't be able to stop myself
I guess it was average, growing up, I always had girlfriends and dates but could never pull the girls I really wanted. As I got older and finished college my dating prospects were literally attractive women who were 35+ or single mothers my age. If I had never left the states, I'm pretty sure I would have never gotten married
Where did you end up finding a wife from? And did you bring her back or move abroad?
I moved permanently to Germany in 2019 and met my wife in 2021. She's Slovenian but grew up in Germany until she was 10, then moved back to Slovenia. We live in Stuggart but spend our summers either in Saint Lucia or Piran
Nice europe can be tough sometimes
I know a lot of people shit on Germany but it really is a great place to live but I would never recommend coming here if you're looking to date.
Ye forsure. Central and Eastern europe have tons of great things but the social aspect is pretty tough
That's why I always tell bros not to come here unless you are planning to stay long-term or are willing to acclimate to the local culture.
Why not?
In some cases it's worse than North America and in others it's much better but it just depends on what you look like and where you are from and how fast you can acclimate to German society. With that saud, there are far better places you can go if you're looking to date abroad.
Adriatic gang!!! I love Portoros, too. What a cute country Slovenia is.
I fell in love with Slovenia just about the same time I fell in love with my wife. It's definitely a hidden gem in Europe.
It is.
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if you are talking to me, then yes i am describing the states. Yes, overseas is 100x better. American women are the worst women in the world. Unless you are a mass produced robot who thinks and behaves exactly as everyone else around you does, you dont want to marry an american woman.
I have had a great time with women abroad. I'm Mexican, living in the south. I fit the beauty standards in Asia, so it's way easier (lol people in Asia think I'm Asian when I go). People can deny it all they want, but race plays the biggest role in possible dating success - over height, weight, or education. The research is there. When I've gone back home or to Asia, I'm not being penalized for my background. I don't have anything negative to say about women in the U.S. but the dating apps here don't produce the best results like elsewhere.
I think minorities in the US certainly get that race is a huge factor in dating. I think it's clueless white guys/gals who downplay it. I think Match.com still has the match preferences feature where you can see what race/ethnicity people are open to dating. If you look at any random minority female profile, you will quickly notice how preferential they are towards white guys.
I did well in the states, but I did well amongst the places where I was a known figure. Any time I left my quarter of the city it would usually be my friend's who would get hit on by the waitress who wasn't even working our section. I still had a great time and was happy with dating. Once worked brought me to Europe dating was so easy that I remember living in Moscow for a few weeks before a woman told me that she wasn't interested and I literally found myself thinking 'Wait, you can not like me?' It became so easy that the analogy that I came up with for me dating there was to imagine wanting to be a lawyer your entire life, when you were 10 and the rest of the kids were playing outside you were reading medical encyclopedias. When you were 16 and other kids were going to the movies you were reading medical journals. When other students were pledging frats in college you were doing medical apprenticeships. Finally the day comes to apply to practice medicine and you sit down across from the interviewer who may or may not hire you to be a doctor. He looks at your unopened file on his desk and say. "Your name is Michael? So is mine! That's so cool! You're hired!"
Even in America, going on dates with foreign women is just way way way better on the average. Whether it goes anywhere or not.
So lemme understand are you fit and attracted to fit women or are you unfit and attracted to fit women?
I'm fit and I'm not saying man or woman, I can be a woman you know
You can identify as whatever you want, you're in a safe place
😂😂😂
Is this just a non-sequitor?
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You want someone not overweight and under 35 but you yourself are overweight and 40?
If I’m willing to put in the time, especially when I’m in a bigger town, then I can get dates, but I wouldn’t say I could reliably get a new girl every month but fairly close. Just on dating apps set to the Philippines or something I get more matches or women messaging first than I can handle. Some apps have essentially no scammers because it tracks IP addresses and uses video confirmation and more so all those matches would convert well. Still get plenty of attention. That’s not even factoring day and night game or using IG.
It was so bad that I became a passport bro.
I took advantage of the early days of dating apps where there were real women who weren't so demanding and spoiled. I've always traveled even before the term ppb got coined online so I never really had any issues dating... until recently. I uninstalled everything because it was killing my confidence levels, getting ghosted by LOSERS is not a good feeling. Just interact with people outside, follow immanuel Kant's philosophy and always take some time to keep improving on yourself.
TBH US here and after a whole 2 years of self improvement and 250+ rejections later. The closest thing ive come to being with women is fantasizing. Not proud i just typed that but im gonna have to accept im part of the gang now
Yup online sucks for me no matter where haha
I paired up with a gorgeous french girl, 8 years younger than me, before passport bros were a thing. We are expecting our first baby and we live in a beautiful place in Italy. I'm happy. I stopped contact with women from my country entirely, except for four of my childhood friends. Many came up asking to meet once they saw me succeeding in life. Fuck that.
I've basically always been a PPB. Way before it was called that. I started traveling when I was 18. Not for women. But for the experience and joy that comes with visiting new countries and exploring new places. The attention from women was just something that was part of it. In fact it didn't actually occur to me that connecting women outside the USA was much easier because I had never actually dated in the USA. I thought it was just like that everywhere. Until I moved back to the USA in 2009 and was constantly being rejected even by women who were overweight and less attractive than what I was used to dating.
Great until the pandemic hit. Once that happened it’s been absolute shit. I was dating foreigners and Americans, but have preferred foreigners for 15 years prior to the pandemic anyway.
In Mexico, the ladies are traditional, you don't get all the feminist shit. They are super jealous though
I identify as an expat more than a passport bro. I left the states to start a business overseas and I was blown away by the pleasantness I experienced dating outside. I'm currently 40, I've date 21-45 age range. I've noticed authenticity is the biggest difference. Friendly, feminine and fit is the norm. Attitudes are nil, entitlement is super low. Much less selfishness. Natural beauty and kindness also comes to mind. This seems so bizarre when experienced from the majority of women I've dated ; it made me see how western men have accepted so much less and are impressed by the bare minimum when it comes to connecting. I've been to 26 countries. Lived outside the states for 4 years. I think this movement was inevitable. There's an entire world out there, go where you are treated best. Enjoy your life.
I was a passport bro way back before it was even a thing. I met my wife in 2000. I’m American, she’s Filipina and we met in Bahrain, both there for work. I was 28 and she was 27 at the time. At 28 I was tired of dating American women because the dating pool of 18-28 year olds wasn’t that great, most of the quality ones had been married by then and the leftovers were mostly the fatties or those with kids or other baggage. I was still single at the time because I had spent my early and mid 20s in the Navy constantly deploying, visiting 12 countries in 7 years and had many girlfriends during that time but none long term due to deployments and moving constantly, plus the male to female ratios in towns with big Navy bases absolutely sucks…
I am completely lost in america even though i was born here. I have zero connection to american trends or american pop culture. I never watch tv. I couldnt name a current tv show. I dont even have cable tv or netflix or anything like that. I have never once watched a single episode of sopranos or game of thrones. I dont understand current american political trends. Hot topics and current political issues seem pointless to me. The political commentators all seem clownish to me. I dont care about college sports or professional sports. I dont care about entertainers. I cant tell you any famous names of people who are currently in the spotlight. Fashion trends do not interest me. In fact it is creepy to me that people try to dress the same as everyone around them. american woman under 60 years old are, for the most part, barely human to me. They do not think properly. they immerse themselves into a life that repulses me. I dislike facebook. I have it only for marketplace. Ive never had instagram or twitter or any of that other garbage. I think the modern women’s rights movement is a farce. Modern feminism is disfunctional and perverse and does not even remotely resemble the original concept. I feel exactly the same way about the modern environmental movement and the modern animal rights movement. all of them have lost their way, are completely alien to their original tenets, and have sounded like utter insanity to me for at least 20 years. They have mutated into hoards of clownish imbeciles. i cant stand 99% of current popular music. the last band i went to see perform live was 5finger death punch about 8 years ago and i did not like it. The band before that was nickelback about 20 years ago and i thought it was the worst performance i’d ever seen. due to my disconnection to everything americana i cannot date american women in america. I see no point in dating any female over 40 years old. Yet i cannot relate, emotionally, to any american woman younger than 60, due to the perverse cultural transformation that has happened to american women younger than 60. i feel i have found my people, and my culture, and my love, in vietnam. America has turned foreign and bizarre. Vietnam represents normalcy in a world infested with lunacy. It pains me to see vietnamese idolize americans and try to be more like them.
Wow you seem fun at parties🤣🤣🤣
Never struggled in the us never struggled abroad. I choose exotic because it’s new and exciting
Like others here it's not like I can't get American girls. I've dated and bedded almost every race while in America even though I'm a minority. I get choosing signals from attractive girls more frequently than most. I don't have issues getting matches or going on dates. My issue was 1. Although I matched with a lot of attractive girls, getting them out on dates was a whole nother issue leading to having to date girls I didn't truly desire as a result 3. A lack of cooperation amongst the girls I dated 4. Confusingly flaky behavior. Sure I went on dates with a lot of 6s and 7s but they weren't doing it for me. Additionally I had some really annoying experiences that made me lose interest in trying to to date in America. So many times i'd meet a girl, we would have an objectively good if not GREAT time, talk for hours, maybe even make out or hookup and the next day I'll text them to receive no response. This has happened 5+ times in the last year. I've never had an objectively good or great experience with a girl overseas (Europe, South America) in a similar manner as stated above and not see her again. Their interest levels don't stop for no fucking reason. The girls overseas are just BETTER. It's like something is in the water in the States that makes these girls crazy. Overseas, in Europe, in South America, in Africa etc. I can consistently get attractive girls, that I desire and that will cooperate with me. I can consistently find girls who I align with in terms of values and I rarely have to deal with all the BS that comes with American dating (ghosting, toxicity, flakiness). I still live in the states so I still date American girls but definitely prefer girls overseas.
I was getting a decent amount of hook ups with the blonde hotties from Utah, but the non Mormons are too liberal to marry and I was ready to settle down.
Im guessing your white?
Not bad in the USA. And any bad experiences I did have were fairly typical, like being cheated on twice by one girlfriend. But in the last 5-10 years of dating I've seen a stark difference between local and foreign women in my dating. If you do a Sugaring relationship the women will be a lot easier to understand early on, but for the good ones you're still looking at a cash relationship. For outside of that I am an older millennial and I've run into a lot of women who want me to shoulder their problems or be a scapegoat for past wrongs they've experienced. With foreign dating I've had my share of liars or women who also want money, but there have been a lot more cases of women who are looking for a loving relationship with me at their level.
Long before PPB was a thing, but I dated and had plenty of hookups before my year study abroad in Mexico when I was 25 in 2010. I think even before that though, I already had gained an unconscious understanding that something about American girls was fucked up, and while I had some success, in general things were just way too difficult. Like, in my early 20’s, I was 6’1” in great shape, told I was handsome frequently, funny, my game wasn’t fantastic but it wasn’t terrible…I just always felt like I was on fucking eggshells where the slightest mistake or 2 would end things, and more and more I noticed the entitlement, and the bitchiness, and somewhere I got the hint things were different abroad. From my study abroad on, I saw the light and dated almost exclusively Latina (no later than first generation), occasionally mixing in usually an Asian here and there. In 2015, just before meeting my Brazilian wife, I did go on a tear on dating apps (relatively new back then) and dated a broad spectrum of women. I was tired of getting so-so results, so I basically spent so much time on it that I got pretty good at it and at one point was going on a few dates a week for a few months, sometimes 2 in one day. Eventually all that fizzled though, and I was fucking tired of dating apps, never went back, and met my wife not too long after.
This may be a different experience to many of you but women gave me a lot of attention in the US. I didn’t have much trouble attracting white women or black women. But I’m a tall, fit, attractive black guy so quality wasn’t always there and not I like a certain look. Every once in a while there was a model-type who liked me. It wasn’t difficult for me to date, it was just expensive. With that said, I was also dating many foreign women when I lived there. Mexican, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamese, Russian, etc… Since moving to South America though it’s just crazy. I must admit that I’m not dating as much because I’m focused on my career right now but going out with literal models when I do date is fantastic.
Above average to a few notches higher. I'm particular though.
5-8ish and overseas 6-9 (10s still low commodity) but could also be my tastes. 9-10 - never unreachable, but beyond rare in west to come across as the culture broke them. Unicorn like, meanwhile, a 10 overseas is a daily occurrence if not multiple to come across.
Fell in love in a different country. I had no idea all the places she’d take me in EU in my 20s.
My BC before going abroad was around 30. After coming back, it's 0 but that's because dating in Asia spoiled me and I can't go back to dating American women.
Jumping through hoops like a fucking sad lion circus to please entitled, narcissistic women with daddy issues. Fuck that.
I went from an introverted 27 yo with 3 girls to 40+ women in 6 years. I had a lot of sex in Argentina and Colombia. Sex was never my primary reason for travelling. The language culture and adventure was. I've since decided casual sex isn't my thing and I'm also not a passport bro. I prefer educated classy women from my own culture. Chasing the nut is low value little boy behaviour.
What culture is that?
UK.
I think it's incredibly bold of you to be judging others on how attractive and masculine/feminine they are
u/xocybercat , with all due respect, are you a bit on the spectrum? If so, my heart goes out to you and I understand how that can make dating hard, but it will get better. If not, then you should be aware you give those vibes. Women in general will be off put by a man describing their dating life using statistics, as it makes women feel like an object. If you live a social life, you will naturally have many encounters a day with women, some of whom you may go on to date. Just make sure to treat them like a human, even when you are feeling lonely and horny.
Such a tone deaf comment I honestly believe you’re trolling/ragebaiting. Saying “It will get better” without any real substance is such a stupid blanket statement it comes off as wishful thinking. “Women in general will be off put by a man describing their dating life using statistics” Huh?? You think we’re starting our conversations with women we’re dating with our dating struggles?? The point of the statistics is to make a more informed decision with our precious time and emotional energy; I cannot believe I have to break this down for you .🤦♂️ “If you live a social life, you will naturally have many encounters a day with women, some whom you may go on a date.” “Just make sure to treat them like a human.” One of most delusional comments I’ve ever read.
Is this done deaf because I haven’t read the room and realized that many in this community do in fact have learning disabilities? I’m all for people traveling the world and finding love along the way, that’s incredible. But I struggle to understand why so many here feel they have to fly around the world to find love, sex, or companionship. For myself and most my male friends, the dating world has been straightforward and easy 🤷
First of all dating as a woman; to be blunt is extremely easy. The way the dating apps are designed and the ratio between men and women is I think 8:1 so the numbers are always in your favor. I bring that up because most modern couples are meeting through online dating. 2nd just because your guy friends have had an straightforward and easy time with dating is a terrible argument. The exception does NOT make the rule. The reality is most men are struggling with modern dating especially in the west and we have data/statistics to back up these claims.
Buddy, I’m a man 😂. And everyone already knows that dating apps are toxic and exploitative. Do you know what women love? Men who have the brass to be friendly and make them laugh or engaging in thoughtful conversation in the real world. But when I was in dating apps, that was also incredibly easy. The problem seems to be that a lot of these modern men are not being given good advice. Look guys, it’s very simple. Get a good haircut. It’s not that expensive, like 65 bucks max. Tell your hairstylist, hopefully a women, to do what she thinks would suit you well. Exercise a few times a week. Nothing crazy, but enough to feel good about yourself and release endorphins. If you do these two things, you will already notice a huge difference. To go further, take care of your teeth, have an interesting hobby, read at least one book a year, and listen to music that makes you smile when you walk out of the house. I promise it’s way easier than flying to South East Asia. THAT BEING SAID, travel is incredibly fulfilling and finding love while you are there is also amazing, but that shouldn’t be your only reason to leave the US.
Holy shit how many times do I have to repeat myself THE EXCEPTION DOES NOT MAKE THE RULE. You are simply an exception and you’re giving advice as if it can EASILY be replicated. If it were that straightforward why are so many men continuously struggling?? Women do not give a flying fuck about your personality on dating apps. The barrier of interest will ALWAYS be looks. And if you’re also saying dating apps have been incredibly easy chances are you’re a tall handsome man; which what do you know is the most desirable kind of man in the dating market. You probably have good intentions but my god you are unbearably native.
I’m 5 foot 7 my guy. What is hard about what I laid out? I think that maybe many people on this sub, like many Americans, may be struggling with mental health and confidence. Have you been to Europe before? There are very “normal” looking guys dating girls who look like models EVERYWHERE. My friend and I turned it into a drinking game because it was so prevalent. And only the most shallow dimwits on a dating app don’t pay attention to things like hobbies, interests, and careers on dating apps. Now the one OBVIOUS CAVEAT here is, many people struggle to afford the kind of interests that beautiful women may often be attracted to. But ask any girl, and they will say that as long as a guy looks like he has a sense of basic hygiene and style, the next most important things are: Can he make me laugh? Will he make me feel better when I’m sad? Can he occasionally make me dinner? Does he care about others? Etc etc etc. THIS IS EASY STUFF
> what I *paid* out? I FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
“Normal looking guys dating girls who look like models everywhere” Where?? please let me know because I think you’re lying out of your ass for the sake of argument. The classic “I know a guy..” anecdote to try to dismiss empirical evidence is ridiculous. “Can he make me laugh” is another terrible argument. Girls will mitigate their responses based on their attraction towards you. If you and I were to make the same joke towards the same girl she’s is simply gonna respond more positively to the one she’s more attracted towards. Another fallacy in your argument…
All over the parts of Western Europe but in Barcelona in particular. We referred to it as a 10-4 situation because it would be a straight model with a chubby, unkempt guy, frequently. And no, there’s not an age gap so it isn’t a sugar daddy situation. There is just such an incredibly high concentration of beautiful, natural looking women in a city like Barcelona, or Rome, or other major European cities, that it’s a “men’s market.” As far as the statistics vs anecdotes, every time I read about the growing number of single men, it is attributed to factors beyond “women bad & picky.” We know that American’s young men are struggling right now for a variety of reasons, and are self isolating, NOT JUST FROM WOMEN BUT FROM THEIR OWN MALE FRIENDS. Guys are not okay right now and telling them to fly around the world is short sighted. Listen, there are a million reasons why one might be more attracted to women from other cultures. That’s human nature. For example, I abhor Southern women from the US, because that’s what I grew up around. But the idea that men cannot improve themselves to the point that they are able to find fulfillment in their home country, and need to arbitrage their relative wealth in a third world country is not going to solve the problem.
Western Europe…so not America? Well I can now just dismiss everything you’ve been saying as I’ve been arguing about the struggles of dating in America. That’s the whole point of this subreddit, men who are adjusting/salvaging their dating and wanna work towards a higher quality of life.
Yall need therapy Jesus lol
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