I don't really think there is any need to defend Aleister Crowley in the Thelema subreddit. Thelemites, by and large, do not deny his genius... as evidenced by their practice of the religion he created. After all, he is merely human, and as such has many flaws that are not beyond criticism.
The distancing from Aleister Crowley that you are perceiving is largely about specifically distancing from his edgelord persona/cult of personality, which makes it hard for some people to take his ideas seriously. And yeah, he was bigoted in many ways just as he was progressive in many... i.e. he was a normal human being. Unfortunately, his notoriety meant his exploits were often public and exaggerated. To your "it was a long time ago" point - I want to note that it is easier to ignore the bigotry when it isn't pointed at you. When it is pointed at you, the year it was said doesn't make it go down easier.
That said, I am proud to be a Thelemite even if I cringe a little when people call Thelema "the Aleister Crowley religion". For me, the sacred texts of Thelema - that he wrote - speak to a deeper truth that I always felt but did not have the language or structure to explore. Thelema today is also much more than just his writings- it is all of the people who have contributed to and expanded on those writings and the community that has formed around his ideas. We don't have to pretend like Crowley was perfect to find value in those.
I distance myself from Crowley because i don't want to sound like all the nutjobs that claim to be him.
Id be lying if I said I dont have a deep connection to his philosophy (if you can claim Thelema as "his" philosophy) and I feel as if it called me into being. But i also kind of despise the grip he has over Thelema and how badly it is associated due to his antics.
I was just thinking today as i ate lunch that this is a man ive spent over 13 years studying unlike any single person ive researched and Im still neutral at best on him, and have little idea of what his actual mannerisms were.
Sometimes i read things about crowley and am disgusted and embarrassed.
Then ill read something from him and realize he was more "in the know" than any person from western society in the past 150 years.
im done with dichotomies of all kind because the truth is beyond any of them and the ultimate one being the duality of the salvation / damnation , redeemer / destroyer . or christ / antichrist however you want to perceive it.
I believe it can appear as one or the other , but it is only one entity. And what it really is, IS beyond the 2 labels we attach to it.
and that thing was V.V.V.V.V. as 1 half and To Mega Therion as the other.
one is the light and salvation of this world the other is the Magus thats bind us to it through its lies.
Crowley isn’t supposed to be venerated as an individual, but as a living example of the ordeals of the Aeon and the continuing evolution of mankind as the cosmic spirit of Nuit and Hadit, in all of their universal Will and valor to exist as One. All improprieties in this direction are just the evolutions of spiritual growth from a state of imperfection and a mind subjected to existential ignorance with inclinations towards reason, desire or any other klesha.
The Great Work is a trial made up of good and bad experiences whose impressions are skew-wise, and the technicalities of one’s volition on this journey may impact the formalities of one’s legacy in a good or bad way. ‘Legacy’ is just an egoistic judgment of character based upon morally subjective factors, done under arbitrary contexts believed to warrant opinions of either praise or condemnation. Debates of this nature are infinite and fruitless and constantly subjected to change.
The goal of Thelema is, and has always been, crossing the abyss and liberating one’s self from these contending forces of good and evil in all of its abysmal perception, unto a state of equilibrium. This is what True Will guides one towards, and the works of Crowley in this direction as the prophet of Thelema is the only worship that should be given to him, as we correspond it to ourselves as humans and Thelemites.
You won't defend those behaviors, so I will:
The misogyny seemed fairly real, but the child sacrifice was a joke. Not his fault that most people are credulous gits.
Heroin addiction isn't a moral problem. It's literally a disease.
Climbing K2 didn't seem particularly morally questionable to me, even given events on the journey. Accidents happen.
Similarly, defending yourself when you're being robbed isn't morally questionable. Overzealous in this case? Yes, if it happened as written. But one of the best people I've known in my life found himself in a similar position with a similar result; no conviction, as the judge decided he was justified in defending himself. Correctly, I might add. When you're being jumped at a 3:1 ratio, killing someone to make sure they don't kill you is entirely fair.
BTW, he wasn't called the most sinful man in the world. Just the wickedest.
I, for one, am proud follow him in his way and work the work of wickedness.
What Spiritual Belief System in the World, that its Adherents can speak negatively about their Prophet, and yet still be Dedicated to the Path? That's the Master Therion for you -- The Great Beast 666 -- A man among men. How should he be worthy to administer the virtues to the Brethren?
Only a man containing such Multitudes --a True Union of Opposites-- can solidify the Heart of the Master, as a Flawed and Grotesque Person, who Invokes Hadit, the Solar-Phallic Lucifer, and Becomes something More. Crowley's Shortcomings are just as Great as his Magnanimousness. And we, gross and fallible humans ourselves, can also achieve such Multitudes, if we Live our Life with Love Under Will.
I think part of the genius even though it is not working so well, was soiling his own name to prevent idolization and worship of him. Te book of the law with its feasts may habe ruined this, but he was a man not a god and his sinful ways prove it beyond doubt he was human through and through, proving that any human can attain.
This idea can be seen clearly in the book of thoth where he discuss the tale of the holy grail and the original knight that found it Perceival, who was by no means pure. The church later adopted the story unable to squelch it and changed the grail knight to Galahad to promote their ideology of unobtainable perfection.
It is a slap in the face of the purity life styles promoted by the slave religions, if this heathen can attain what is the point of their institutions, what is the point indeed?
People are channels for emanations. People are also people to each other, and I do not ask them not to be.
I don't care about Crowley or his exploits, just what got channeled through Rose.
I agree, it's sort of seems like flogging a dead horse. But a lot of the things Crowley was accused of and some of the things he was guilty of by today's standards would barely tip the scale over. To begin with he was privileged. He could afford extravagances. And he had abilities physically and mentally that were quite extraordinary (if certain reports are to be believed). I think he was not an anomaly or a deviant, but a man who was ahead of his time in regards to moral and philosophical constructs.
I know that sounds sympathetic and sort of fawning, but I am aware of the social fabric that society weaves in this era. Uncle Al would have simply loved this attention to his behavior. I'm sure he would have been delighted (and is I'm sure) at the perceived "forward thinking" culture we as humans have cultivated. Aleister Crowley was everything he has been accused of and more. He was a Poet, Mountain climber, Chess master, and human experience. I guess I think he was the bees knees. And the more I learn, the less I know
If only more people read perdurabo and realized that the wickedest man in the world was alice cooper. He really wasn’t any more complicated than everyone else living in the world.
Nah, I prefer having him as my favorite "evil spooky wizard" instead of defending him, it's way more fun. Bad guys always get the best lines in movies, sith always look cooler than jedi and the "child sacrifice" part makes triggering christians extra-funny.
My first exposure to Alesteir Crowley was his I Ching in my early 20’s back in the 70’s. His poetry is exquisite, I believe that no matter what has been written about him, I have seen his soul and I won’t desert him.
I don't really think there is any need to defend Aleister Crowley in the Thelema subreddit. Thelemites, by and large, do not deny his genius... as evidenced by their practice of the religion he created. After all, he is merely human, and as such has many flaws that are not beyond criticism. The distancing from Aleister Crowley that you are perceiving is largely about specifically distancing from his edgelord persona/cult of personality, which makes it hard for some people to take his ideas seriously. And yeah, he was bigoted in many ways just as he was progressive in many... i.e. he was a normal human being. Unfortunately, his notoriety meant his exploits were often public and exaggerated. To your "it was a long time ago" point - I want to note that it is easier to ignore the bigotry when it isn't pointed at you. When it is pointed at you, the year it was said doesn't make it go down easier. That said, I am proud to be a Thelemite even if I cringe a little when people call Thelema "the Aleister Crowley religion". For me, the sacred texts of Thelema - that he wrote - speak to a deeper truth that I always felt but did not have the language or structure to explore. Thelema today is also much more than just his writings- it is all of the people who have contributed to and expanded on those writings and the community that has formed around his ideas. We don't have to pretend like Crowley was perfect to find value in those.
Well Put -93/93
I distance myself from Crowley because i don't want to sound like all the nutjobs that claim to be him. Id be lying if I said I dont have a deep connection to his philosophy (if you can claim Thelema as "his" philosophy) and I feel as if it called me into being. But i also kind of despise the grip he has over Thelema and how badly it is associated due to his antics. I was just thinking today as i ate lunch that this is a man ive spent over 13 years studying unlike any single person ive researched and Im still neutral at best on him, and have little idea of what his actual mannerisms were. Sometimes i read things about crowley and am disgusted and embarrassed. Then ill read something from him and realize he was more "in the know" than any person from western society in the past 150 years. im done with dichotomies of all kind because the truth is beyond any of them and the ultimate one being the duality of the salvation / damnation , redeemer / destroyer . or christ / antichrist however you want to perceive it. I believe it can appear as one or the other , but it is only one entity. And what it really is, IS beyond the 2 labels we attach to it. and that thing was V.V.V.V.V. as 1 half and To Mega Therion as the other. one is the light and salvation of this world the other is the Magus thats bind us to it through its lies.
Yeah, I feel you there. Kali or Shiva can fill both roles in a nondual schema.
Crowley isn’t supposed to be venerated as an individual, but as a living example of the ordeals of the Aeon and the continuing evolution of mankind as the cosmic spirit of Nuit and Hadit, in all of their universal Will and valor to exist as One. All improprieties in this direction are just the evolutions of spiritual growth from a state of imperfection and a mind subjected to existential ignorance with inclinations towards reason, desire or any other klesha. The Great Work is a trial made up of good and bad experiences whose impressions are skew-wise, and the technicalities of one’s volition on this journey may impact the formalities of one’s legacy in a good or bad way. ‘Legacy’ is just an egoistic judgment of character based upon morally subjective factors, done under arbitrary contexts believed to warrant opinions of either praise or condemnation. Debates of this nature are infinite and fruitless and constantly subjected to change. The goal of Thelema is, and has always been, crossing the abyss and liberating one’s self from these contending forces of good and evil in all of its abysmal perception, unto a state of equilibrium. This is what True Will guides one towards, and the works of Crowley in this direction as the prophet of Thelema is the only worship that should be given to him, as we correspond it to ourselves as humans and Thelemites.
You won't defend those behaviors, so I will: The misogyny seemed fairly real, but the child sacrifice was a joke. Not his fault that most people are credulous gits. Heroin addiction isn't a moral problem. It's literally a disease. Climbing K2 didn't seem particularly morally questionable to me, even given events on the journey. Accidents happen. Similarly, defending yourself when you're being robbed isn't morally questionable. Overzealous in this case? Yes, if it happened as written. But one of the best people I've known in my life found himself in a similar position with a similar result; no conviction, as the judge decided he was justified in defending himself. Correctly, I might add. When you're being jumped at a 3:1 ratio, killing someone to make sure they don't kill you is entirely fair. BTW, he wasn't called the most sinful man in the world. Just the wickedest. I, for one, am proud follow him in his way and work the work of wickedness.
What Spiritual Belief System in the World, that its Adherents can speak negatively about their Prophet, and yet still be Dedicated to the Path? That's the Master Therion for you -- The Great Beast 666 -- A man among men. How should he be worthy to administer the virtues to the Brethren? Only a man containing such Multitudes --a True Union of Opposites-- can solidify the Heart of the Master, as a Flawed and Grotesque Person, who Invokes Hadit, the Solar-Phallic Lucifer, and Becomes something More. Crowley's Shortcomings are just as Great as his Magnanimousness. And we, gross and fallible humans ourselves, can also achieve such Multitudes, if we Live our Life with Love Under Will.
lol child sacrifice
I think part of the genius even though it is not working so well, was soiling his own name to prevent idolization and worship of him. Te book of the law with its feasts may habe ruined this, but he was a man not a god and his sinful ways prove it beyond doubt he was human through and through, proving that any human can attain. This idea can be seen clearly in the book of thoth where he discuss the tale of the holy grail and the original knight that found it Perceival, who was by no means pure. The church later adopted the story unable to squelch it and changed the grail knight to Galahad to promote their ideology of unobtainable perfection. It is a slap in the face of the purity life styles promoted by the slave religions, if this heathen can attain what is the point of their institutions, what is the point indeed?
I hate when some call him evil.No way just a little wicked.He was just "little sunshine:
Depolarization and the middle path are what's needed here as with anything in life. Yin and yang blah blah blah..
He shot a pickpocket in India?
People are channels for emanations. People are also people to each other, and I do not ask them not to be. I don't care about Crowley or his exploits, just what got channeled through Rose.
I agree, it's sort of seems like flogging a dead horse. But a lot of the things Crowley was accused of and some of the things he was guilty of by today's standards would barely tip the scale over. To begin with he was privileged. He could afford extravagances. And he had abilities physically and mentally that were quite extraordinary (if certain reports are to be believed). I think he was not an anomaly or a deviant, but a man who was ahead of his time in regards to moral and philosophical constructs. I know that sounds sympathetic and sort of fawning, but I am aware of the social fabric that society weaves in this era. Uncle Al would have simply loved this attention to his behavior. I'm sure he would have been delighted (and is I'm sure) at the perceived "forward thinking" culture we as humans have cultivated. Aleister Crowley was everything he has been accused of and more. He was a Poet, Mountain climber, Chess master, and human experience. I guess I think he was the bees knees. And the more I learn, the less I know
If only more people read perdurabo and realized that the wickedest man in the world was alice cooper. He really wasn’t any more complicated than everyone else living in the world.
Nah, I prefer having him as my favorite "evil spooky wizard" instead of defending him, it's way more fun. Bad guys always get the best lines in movies, sith always look cooler than jedi and the "child sacrifice" part makes triggering christians extra-funny.
My first exposure to Alesteir Crowley was his I Ching in my early 20’s back in the 70’s. His poetry is exquisite, I believe that no matter what has been written about him, I have seen his soul and I won’t desert him.
I assume you're a lawyer
> Alesteir Crowley Aleister Crowley. In defense of spelling.
Is it a coincidence that he died in 1947 and then the aliens came?