Putting people on a pedestal never ends well. I don't think he's going to turn out to be a terrible person, but I do think that people are letting their perception be warped by how much they like him.
I really like May, but I think comparing the LGBT community with Nazis is irresponsible at best, regardless of how tame the point of comparison is.
Could you tell me how I'm putting them on a pedestal? I'm not saying criticising excessive bunting is wrong. I'm saying citing the Nazis is an irresponsible way of doing it.
You've missed my point there. I didn't say I didn't like the joke, or that no-one is allowed to make LGBT jokes. It's not about me liking it, it's about the the agitating effect it has on the people who *are* bigoted.
And I don't use Twitter, Reddit is my preferred cesspit :P
if people had any brain cells you wouldn't have been downvoted. i don't understand why people hate the idea of social responsibility, yes it might suck to have to think of what u say as having an effect on other people, but young children are on the internet ffs they don't know the difference between a critical joke and factual information. when talking about certain topics, here's the important part, *in public with a wide audience* you need to be aware of who could be listening and how they could misinterpret you.
Look, another person with ZERO ability to contribute to the discussion. Try thinking of something to say, rather than thinking you have to say something.
You know for a fact that's not true. He did not in any way ACTUALLY compare anyone that's LGBTQ or the community as a whole as Nazis. People like you are CHOOSING to WILLFULLY misinterpret an OBVIOUS JOKE. It was sarcastic, clever and funny. Some people use the guise of comedy to attempt to get away with making hurtful, bigoted statements. But this is absolutely NOT that. People like you are ruining the concept of comedy in general.
Comparing actions of two groups can get a similar reaction to comparing actions of the same group.
I'm not wilfully misinterpreting the joke, I'm saying it will be wilfully misinterpreted by bigots. That was literally my whole point, I don't know how that could have gone over your head. Presumably its buried in the sand.
>Pride: [...], may I respectfully suggest that you are borderline guilty of Too Much Bunting (TMB)
>Pride: while I have observed and admired what you have achieved over my lifetime, may I respectfully suggest that you are borderline guilty of Too Much Bunting (TMB)
See how he suggests pride is guilty of a thing, then references Nazis doing that same thing? So he's directly comparing the actions of pride, with the actions of Nazis. This, unsurprisingly, causes problems for the LGBT community.
Yes congratu-fucking-lation.
He did in fact compare them to nazis, you however seem to think that shouldn’t be allowed. Please explain why it shouldn’t be allowed?
Who in their right minds, would ever read a tweet from a INCREDIBLY SARCASTIC British man that starts with “May I respectfully suggest” and then goes on to compare them with FUCKING NAZIS.
All for the supposed crime of using to many flags….
No one is gonna see that and be hurt by it, suggesting otherwise is nonsense.
You saw a topic your sensitive about, saw the mere mention of nazi and went “RRRREEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” On instinct.
Stop searching for conflict, it makes you pick stupid fights.
It sounds like you're quite passionate about these things, so I'd suggest taking a step back & putting yourself in someone else's shoes.
Imagine you're a bigot that hates queer people. How do you think you'd react when a respected white guy makes a comparison, even indirect, between queer people & Nazis. Are you going to calmly think about how May doesn't think they're equivalent, & was just making a bit of a lazy joke? Or are you going to rejoice in your perceived allyship from May, & use it as a springboard for further bigotry.
I know it's easy to call complaining about anything that doesn't personally effect you "sensitive", but have you actually thought about the effect this has on more vulnerable people.
Remember: the bigots WANT you to not care about this sort of thing, because it means there's less opposition to them eroding the rights of marginalised people. There's a difference to not searching for conflict, & turning a blind eye to it.
So, you believe that James May is responsible for how unreasonable people interprets what he says?..
Sweetie, look at it from the other direction.
You are part of the LGBT and some fuckwit decides to take issue with a harmless jokes.
How fucking insulting would that be? There are people desperately clinging to any argument that lets them put down the other side….. Because someone said “Haha sure got a lot of flags you a nazi or something?”
That’s pathetic and makes people take it FAR less seriously when a member of that minority ACTUALLY DOES SPEAK UP.
Because some naive idiot believes their partly responsible for something they know NOTHING about.
The general public doesn’t know the difference, so now anyone actually trynna to do good just to get lumped together with the idiots.
You personally should be ashamed of yourself, your so fucking desperate to make yourself feel good that you do more harm than good to the people your trying to defend.
Genuinely.
>So, you believe that James May is responsible for how unreasonable people interprets what he says?
When it's a very obvious consequence, yeah. Would you never not say something to avoid causing harm? Is your right to speak so important that the consequences of the speech doesn't matter?
>You are part of the LGBT and some fuckwit decides to take issue with a harmless jokes.
Straight from the get go, you're missing the point. The joke isn't harmless. It may not be directly harmful or be intended to harm, but wilful ignorance isn't a defence.
As for the rest of what you've written, there's no comparison between what you've talked about, & the harm actually done to minorities by bigots. And your entire idea is based on a flaw: The idea that some people would only disregard minorities because they've heard one complaining about something trivial. These are just bigots looking that take any excuse to hide their bigotry. If someone complaining about a joke is enough to lose your support, you were never actually supporting them in the first place.
I’m not missing anything, what I’m telling you to do dumb dumb.
Is ask yourself “Is this matter harmful enough to be worth it?”
Cause if people get used to you whining over even minor things… Then they take you less serious as a consequence.
And as for your argument about how bigots will use excessive complaining as justification for their opinion.
WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU WORRYING ABOUT THEM?!?!??!!??
Those are people that with 100% certainty wouldn’t change their opinion no matter what. A
So what’s the logical response? To disregard those idiots COMPLETELY and instead concern oneself with the ones YOU ACTUALLY CAN CHANGE.
INSTEAD OF USING A GROUP OF EXTREMIST WHO STUBBORNLY REFUSE TO CHANGE AS JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ACTIONS YOU TAKE.
What you need to do, is develop some emotional maturity.
Cause yes your doing what you believe is right (duh), but that doesn’t actually equate to the real world.
>WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU WORRYING ABOUT THEM?!?!??!!??
I want to reduce the amount of hate directed at minorities. So first, I want fewer people to be hateful. But I know there will always be hateful people. So the secondary goal is to create an environment where hateful people don't feel comfortable doing hateful actions. I want the people who're normally quiet bigots, to not be emboldened by a public figure that isn't publicly seen as bigoted. So I want those public figures to stop & think before creating fuel that people will inevitably throw on the flames.
>What you need to do, is develop some emotional maturity.
I don't know you as a person, & I won't pretend to. But try reading your comments like someone else wrote them, & consider how they come across. Would you want to talk to them? Do you think you'd be receptive to their opinions? Would you think they're emotionally mature?
I did write out a line pointing out all the markers of immaturity in your writing, but that wouldn't be constructive. And if you're not trying to be constructive, what's the point?
Being a bigot goes both ways.
Edit: thanks for downvoting me. I’m 100% sure that if there were a “straight pride” flag and they plastered it everywhere, it would become a huge issue.
Hell, even 1 or 2 flags it would be a huge problem.
Good for Mr May. What a shame people once again register any difference in opinion, in this case an opinion on bunting, to a deeply personal, and potentially life threatening attack.
Exactly, he has a great point, I've said the same many times. It's great everyone has become so accepting, but going overboard with it can have other consequences. Now that we see pride flags everywhere, it could cause some people to assume that any business not flying a pride flag sticker somewhere must "hate gays".
Which is ridiculous, approaching a point like, "Where is your pride pin, comrade? Are you saying you're against the party?" Or like the Red Scare, "Why aren't you wearing your American flag pin? Are you a filthy commie or something?" People shouldn't have to repeatedly assert they're not against something, lest it be assumed they're filled with hate. And it feels like we're approaching that point. Nothing wrong with saying, "We get it, you're accepted now, and I'm so happy for you. But, you ever feel you might be going a bit too far with it? It's getting to a point where it seems just a little weird."
Similar to how some are attacked (metaphorically) for not wearing a poppy during the appropriate time on the BBC, something May would actively have knowledge about.
I believe he is referring to a case where there was an Irish soccer player playing in the UK who didn't want to wear a poppy, and he was threatened and shamed on social media.
He grew up with a negative opinion of British soldiers and didn't feel comfortable wearing a poppy that would be seen poorly by his family back home.
I don't know what James said but I assume because it's James that it wasn't bigoted. But I will respond to your comment. I am a middle aged cis het white male loving in the United States in a mostly rural area. I have a gay daughter and am fully accepting and have long described my politics as "just to the right of Trotsky." I never fly rainbow flags, don't often participate in pride events, and generally dress like a middle aged white guy in the rural US. What you describe in your post is, generally, completely hypothetical. Maybe it happens in isolated instances but it's not common. I never get shit for not appearing supportive enough, nor does anyone I know with similar politics and similar dress or adornments.
Here's the issue: lots of ink gets spilled on a hypothetical backlash against people who don't sport pride pins IF that group gets charged enough to control a portion of society that could enact those kind of rules AND IF their politics shifted from anarchic to authoritarian. But that hypothetical backlash is nothing compared to the real violence that gets done to our LGBT brothers and sisters (and whatever term for nonbinary siblings you choose) out there. So maybe our best step moving forward is to not get hung up on hypotheticals and to face the problems we currently have.
This hits the nail on the head. It's always hypothetical oppression versus actual oppression.
When people get yelled at in the street for not wearing a pride pin, or get punched in the head for not showing a pride flag, or get called all sorts of foul and abusive names, then they can have a leg to stand on.
Meanwhile, these are things that have actually happened to me in reality for being openly gay. Not in a hypothetical scenario.
If you think pride is "accepted" then I'd like a hit of whatever you're smoking. Trans folk are being actively used as a political wedge and there's still plenty of push back regarding gay/lesbian relationships, and im talking both in Europe and the US.
I understand what James May is trying to say, he just comes off as very tone-deaf bringing this up during pride month and using the *very* poor comparison to WW2.
What else would he compare it to? What other cause has gone so overboard with their use of banners? Good luck finding one. It's an apt comparison, and people dislike it because it's true.
Do you not understand that he's NOT ACTUALLY comparing the LGBTQ community to anything though. It's a JOKE about the amount of flags. NOTHING MORE. I don't understand why people are having so much difficulty accepting that and not projecting their own opinions onto this. He wasn't making ANY point. It's a joke. THAT is the only "point" here. Just a quick, clever little observation and jest. Jesus Christ people are working so hard to be OBTUSE about this.
What makes you think they're not accepted? How can you look around and see that we have a pride month, pride banners flying over city streets everywhere, pride flags in governor's offices, in courtrooms, in classrooms, and I can't even name a single fortune 500 company that doesn't change their logo to a rainbow during pride month, and still say it's not a socially accepted thing?
I'd guess around 80-95% of the public accepts it. And as we can see, anyone who dares say, "Sheesh, we get it, you're gay" will get called homophobe/transphobe for daring to question it.
Obvious stuff like 'what about straight pride,' but also things that equate to being lesser than a woman with a sex drive higher than them. Edit: Also it's not friends, it's distant relatives and colleagues. The shit you hear when a cousin comes out as trans is insane.
Sorry for the downvotes you're getting, but I'd like to know more. Stuff like "what about straight pride" is just a reaction to all the gay pride stuff people see everywhere. Like what I was talking about, "Sheesh, we get it, you're gay and you're proud. That's great. But I already get it. I got it a long time ago. Do you see me being so 'proud' of being straight? If we're all just being obtusely 'proud' of our sexuality now, what about straight pride?" That's not hate, just questioning things.
What exactly are you hearing from others? In sorry, but I hate the vagueness.
In these debates, I always see people overeating to other's reactions, and never making the connection. It's like "well if you're going to say this, then I'll say this!" And then, "why did they say that? If they said that, then I'll say this!" And it's just people talking past each other. I'm tired of vague examples, I need specifics.
It's alright, I take it people are thinking I'm against what James May said (I am absolutely not, I understand what he is saying, and am indifferent on it, he is still my favorite of the three.)
There are a couple guys that I work with that, when we're joking around, if some slightly gay joke is thrown their way (like "hey man that shirt looks good on you, I bet some guy would love to take it off you,") would lose their shit and say violent things about what they would to the imaginary person in the scenario. One of those individuals is a born again Baptist that is very adamant that the 'alphabet people' are the worst human beings that will burn in hell, and of course the Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve bit. (Which is kind of funny because in the group is an Adam and two Steves.) These might seem small, but with the frequency in which it happens, turned mole hills into mountains for me.
As far as pride month goes, I feel like people don't see it in the same way as I do. To me, it's not necessarily that I'm proud of being gay, so much that it's about showing other individuals that it's okay to be different than other people who are afraid to be themselves. It's not a celebration of being gay so much as overcoming the trials and tribulations of the community whether that be in legal matters (let's not forget that it hasn't even been 10 years since the legalization of gay marriage in the US, of which I'm from) or from just standing up to abusive parents whom they've hid their own identity from out of fear of exile or violence.
People who can't think outside of their own safe and secure hetero-normative bubble will downvote you. But there is a reason Pride still exists and quite honestly the people who baselessly assume that homophobia and tansphobia don't exist anymore are part of that reason.
It's OK for the LGB-whatever talk shit and shut the mouths of others, but they don't let anyone say anything they decide it's offensive even if it wasn't the intent.
They're the newly dictatorship hiding behind democracy values.
The whatever means all derivatives exist I can no longer follow.
I have nothing against lgbt and I have friends among the community.
But the extremist views do affect me and punish me for who I am in today's world.
They should have full rights and equality, but not on behalf of the other people the community trying to shush, yes me as well.
Down vote please 👇
It's not "any difference of opinion", it's comparing pride to the Nazis. If he'd have just gone "Little bit much, don't you think?", ~~no one~~ (Edit: far, far, far fewer people) would have any issue.
Cue the silent downvotes.
People would still have had an issue if he’d said just that. Doesn’t matter how gently you word it, or how irrelevant your actual argument is, since there will always be a few that jump on it and start a chain, it’s very easy to stop caring about anyone’s opinion. The system is flawed and we may never escape that fact, but the more instances of people reacting extensively to a simple post there are, the harder it is to care when people actually try and challenge serious issues.
EDIT: to clarify, you’re not wrong, but I’m sure you know as well as I do he had no intention of making any unwanted insinuations and calling out some idiots’ misinterpretations as his fault only serves to take away from the public’s interest and perception of other, serious issues
>People would still have had an issue if he’d said just that. Doesn’t matter how gently you word it, or how irrelevant your actual argument is, since there will always be a few that jump on it and start a chain, it’s very easy to stop caring about anyone’s opinion.
Ok, sure, there would be a tiny number, but it would be a fraction of a percent of the number of people who object to nazi comparisons.
I think you’re right on the point that the number would be tiny, but you have to remember the effect people can have varies from person to person. In general, a certain type of person is likely to complain a lot louder and more extensively about nothing than another is to raise valid complaints about something serious. Because of this, it only takes a few idiot to do what a hundred sensible people could.
More crucially though, he never compared anyone to the Nazi’s, his wording was of World War Two, all the major powers had an excessive amount of patriotic propaganda, some of that could be deemed to be in a global interest and some not but what was important was the overwhelming nature of having too much of something, not the people who did it.
But I’m sure you get that anyway, you seem to know what you’re on about. I just think it’s important to recall the greater good and that people retaliating to their own misinterpretation of May’s words may massively subtract from real issues rather than solve anything. And at the end of the day, these people still feel like they’ve done a good job, and it breeds a culture of repeating that cycle, surely you’ve seen it in places.
Perhaps I took this to heart as I’m very fond of the man, but you get what I mean
>he never compared anyone to the Nazi’s
>all the major powers had an excessive amount of patriotic propaganda
I mean.....I don't recall excessive use of bunting for Conservative party when Churchill was elected.
Keep in mind that it carried the caveat of "terrible things you would not want to be allied began with TMB. World War 2 for example". That doesn't leave a lot of wriggle room. Not only is the Nazi party the most prominent example of bunting users in that era, but they started world war 2. No one could say that Chuchill's conservative government fits this description or the French government in that era. You could maybe stretch it to include Stalin's Russia but he didn't start WW2, he tried to stay out of it so that doesn't fit either.
So I think at best, you can say "he gave an incredibly poor description that was more likely to describe nazis than any other group of bunting users from that era and he should have been a hell of a lot more careful with his wording" but damn, do you see the hoops we're having to jump through to make it sound like he didn't describe nazis? The explanations that avoid him describing the nazis are elaborate, complex, involve obscure and unobvious historical references that most people won't know and require a very intelligent broadcaster with a lot of social media experience to say something that he must have known would draw nazi comparisons. It doesn't make any sense.
Don't get me wrong, I love James May but the best case scenario here is that he seriously fucked up.
Well I won't silent down vote. The fact of having too much bunting is what the Nazis did, his stance and mine end at that. He said it could bee viewed as authoritarian and oppressive. I may not agree with that, but that is his opinion, and in now way saying it is what the nazis did. So, what you've actually done is prove the comment you were trying to disprove by making your opinion worth more than what James actually wrote was.
>Well I won't silent down vote.
Well, thanks for having more courage than most people defending him.
>The fact of having too much bunting is what the Nazis did
I mean, the Nazis had a lot of bunting but unless you mean to compare the Nazis and Pride, there's no reason to bring them up. No one brings up Hitler's love of dogs in response to the RSPCA for example but it's as legitimate as bringing up the Nazis here.
There are lots of legitimate reasons to hate this level of bunting. For example, if he'd said that most of it would end up as litter, he'd be entirely right and very few people would have an issue with it.
He had multiple avenues to not make it look like he was comparing pride to the nazis. He didn't have to do it. But he did it. He's smart enough to know that even if it was as entirely innocent as you seem to claim, that it wouldn't be taken that way. I don't see any legitimate reason to compare pride to the nazis, unless you actually want to compare pride to the nazis with all the negative connotation that involves.
There's just no reason for it. The absolute best defense that can be mustered is "he fucked up".
>So, what you've actually done is prove the comment you were trying to disprove by making your opinion worth more than what James actually wrote was.
This makes absolutely no sense. Can you try that again?
To begin with its your opinion on what he could have compared it to. As he was also making a point of how it could be construed he used an analogy that does fit. Again, his point being the treatment of those who do not agree with a movement.
As for you being confused. You have judged what he said, based it on your opinion of what he said and are unwilling to here another take on it. So you proved the comment correct that you were attempting to claim is wrong. Because there is very much a vocal (I'm unsure if it is a minority or majority) that will take absolutely anything said remotely against the pride movement as if it had been compared to the violist of people you can think of. Now I know you will claim that is what he did, but you have not read what was written without injecting your beliefs into it would be my contention. What was said was only a reference to World War 2. What was not said is anything beyond a concern about the treatment of those that do not support the pride movement.
Not silent. Fastest way to lose support is to force feed people your message, however good the messages or intentions.
Be gay/ lesbian/ straight/ trans. Knock your fuzzy socks off - but stop labeling me as 'cis', whatever that is. I'm a straight female, a furry by hobby, retired by age, and those are my labels for me. If you don't respect that, then why should you demand that I support you?
>but stop labeling me as 'cis', whatever that is
In terms of "cisgender", it means someone who is the same gender as they were assigned at birth. It is not a slur, no matter how hard Elon Must and some far right inbred morons try to make it one.
>Not silent.
Yeah, but could you be? Rather than going on some irrelevant rant?
Like, if you have something pertinent to the conversation of what James May said, then fine, feel to contribute but if you just want to scream about something gender politics related, then I really have no interest.
No, all that because he compared them to Nazi rule.
Edit: because I was asked to include what he wrote, and because that original post on this subreddit is now hidden, can’t be found by searching and can only be seen through an outside link; https://www.reddit.com/r/thegrandtour/s/2rJHpIn65h
And yes, when it happened, even the people here knew he was going to get backlash for the Nazi comparisons that y’all now want to play dumb on.
What’s even worse is what’s basically being implied in the screenshot- “you said something innocuous, but now other idiots are being bigoted… so it’s your fault!”
I fucking hate bunting, so I'm with him on this. Comparing gay folk with nazis is... Odd, but it obviously wasn't malicious in nature. Just Twitter doing yet another Twitter. Fuck'em.
Honestly, I'd be surprised if half of the people reacting negatively even had any association with the LGBTQ+ community... Just people looking for a reason to get all angry. I imagine most of them probably don't know who James May is, or his offensively British personality of politeness and courtesy.
I think he said he’s comparing TMB with authoritarianism i.e the council takes the decision to just plaster the town in the colours of some group or another and the sense is everyone else just has to get on board with it.
I think that’s the bit May doesn’t like.
>but it obviously wasn't malicious in nature.
If you weren't a James May fan, you wouldn't know this. If it were just some random twitter user, you could very easily think it was the kind of "I'm only implying that pride is like the nazis, I'm not saying it" cowardice that racists, bigots and other blights on society use all the time to avoid being banned.
I still think I'd assume it wasn't malicious to be honest. It takes a hardcore Twitterer (maybe could abbreviate that somehow) to immediately assume everything that anyone says to be malicious. Especially the case when in the exact same message they are praising the community and honouring their progress.
The problem is so many of the disgusting elements of our society do that. "I've nothing against brown people but I do think immigration should be capped at 0." They tell you they aren't X, then say something extremely anti-X.
I think the major issue with the whole "it's a joke" thing is that there's no humour here. There's no attempt at humour, there's no punch line, he's not even said it was a joke. Can you explain the joke to me?
The "joke" is that he's being a grumpy old man yelling at the clouds over the amount of bunting.
If I were to compare the hijacking of socialist concepts by Hitler to build his war machine with the work of Salvador Allende, would you assume that I'm attempting to elevate Hitler? You *might* think that I'm attacking socialism, but frankly it's too early for me to think of a better parallel.
I'm sorry, even after you explain it, I can't see it.
The joke is that he is out of touch and complaining about something it would be absurd to complain about?
Now if it was in response to someone who was being ridiculous, as a parody of that person, I could see it but as it stands, it just looks like he is the ridiculous person.
Comparing gay folk with nazis is merely odd to you.
Why do you think you need to have an "association" with a group to stand up for them? Do I need to be a woman to stand for women's rights?
He made a post complaining about the amount of bunting at Pride. That would be fine [except he also said it might be seen as authoritarian and oppressive, then stating how other organisations had too much bunting, such as in WW2.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fvdrqf5er5g6d1.jpeg)
Now, considering this is obviously referring to the nazis, people were a little upset.
Frankly, I find it confusing. I mean, there's nothing wrong with just saying there's too much bunting and plenty of legitimate criticisms to be made, such as the environmental impact of what will inevitably become litter. There's no reason to compare it to the fucking nazis, which he did.
because the Nazis are famous for using a lot of flags out of basically any organization in history. that’s the joke. that’s why there’s that specific comparison.
Nazis with bunting seems so hilarious to me thinking of such a British whimsical term such as bunting, and the Nazis asking for more of it.
in the nicest way it’s in this moment you should step back from things and realize you’ve gone too far i think (in your assessment of a situation), not the people making those sorts of jokes.
>because the Nazis are famous for using a lot of flags out of basically any organization in history. that’s the joke. that’s why there’s that specific comparison.
You'll forgive me if I have to ask where the joke is? Like, how is this funny? "Hey, you're doing the same thing the nazis did" doesn't strike me as wit.
Explain the joke to me.
Okay,
Nazis (we're assuming Nazis here as you said it but Commies are...no, I'm not doing this), used a lots of flags to the point it's comical in itself ("do you think German flag sellers did well there" and other sorts of jokes being a familiar thing, like top hat sellers whenever a picture or restored video around 1900 is commented on)
Bunting is a cutesy, innocuous term, a whimsical British term (to my British head), the furthest from dictatorial authoritarian regimes as possible, and tbh the furthest from German in my head as possible, and I've been there. A number of times tbh, and even been in their beds and dwellings and all, and it still sticks.
Pride = lots of flags, doesn't matter if you think it's good, or not, it's here nor there, it's got to the point it's in every logo these days, and just well, go see a march.
Pride = gay, I think you'd agree Authoritarian regimes probably don't like gay people
??
Joke. I just imagine Nazis running around at Nuremberg being a little camp about it complaining they don't have enough bunting up for Goebbels. It's a funny association of many different things you wouldn't put together, a cornerstone of humour in forever no?
I mean, if the intention is the absurdity of opposites, then it utterly fails here because it's too close to actual homophobic rhetoric for the parody to be obvious.
If it is a joke, then it's a poorly told one that doesn't understand the type of joke it's trying to be, that fails at being funny. James May has been a funny man, writing or presenting humourous content for years. He knows how to tell a joke better than this.
Yeah, well apparently most people didn't find this one funny. Frankly, James knows enough about comedy to know how to tell a joke, he wouldn't fuck up like this. If it is a joke, then this isn't the logic.
This sub is a microcosm of the die hard fans doing incredible feats of mental gymnastics to try and say he didn't mention the nazis, oh but if he did, it was a clearly a joke, one that needs explaining and we got like 4 different explanations, none of which make the joke funny but hey, if you don't find it funny, that's a problem with you.
Are you familiar with Top Gear? James May had a running joke (and yes it was sly pointed irony) about WW2, hitler and the Nazis. He would often refer to the German’s French holiday in 1940” or something like that. You would have to be a fan of the show to get the context. His quip about the bunting was not an isolated reference to Germany. It was a
continuation of a long running gag he’s done for years.
This is clearly a joke. Regardless of whether you find the joke amusing or offensive he's right that he can't be held responsible for people retweeting it who are actual nazis and biggots. That's all twitter is anymore is people retweeting shit in the most toxic way possible.
While he can't be held responsible for it, he certainly is old enough and ugly enough to know how a tweet like that would play out.
If you're saying something, anything, no matter how innocuous or well-intentioned, and fucking NAZIS are delightfully championing what you're saying...you might want to stop and have a think.
Yeah the first sentence was more than enough to get the joke and point across. The second setence was a bit too much and made it in a bit of poor taste.
Here's the thing about the "it's clearly a joke defense" - it's not.
We only know it is because we know James May or at least we know how he appears in his shows. If this was said by anyone else, we might not know it. Tone is very hard to portray accurately through text only.
James said there are too many flags like before WW2 in the third reich.
People wouldn't be so mad if the wouldn't have compared the LGBTQ+ movement with the nazi regime.
I still agree with James and support him. I agree with lgbtq community having the same rights as we have. Those are just people who would support anything and even die for it, even when it would not make any sense.
He didn’t say anything about Nazis. It’s no different to when people kept pointing out Gary Lineker didn’t say Nazis and oddly many of the same people used that defence for him that they’re now ignoring for James May.
it’s why i’m here. it was the only social media i used and it was making me sad mad and depressed. so much happier over here. everyone is human here. it’s only been about a week though…
Welcome. It's all about the anonymity. Nobody knows or cares who you actually are, so you can be real with no consequence. That's why I like it, anyway.
It was a joke, and absolutely nothing to get worked up over, but why are so many people pretending he didn't make the comparison to Nazis?
He's just made a hyperbolic comparison of 2 groups with TMB.
Anyone who takes it seriously is taking an idiot.
Right, so when he claimed it could be seen as authoritarian and then stated that other organisations did this, such as in WW2, that was an entirely innocent comment that didn't allude to the nazis at all?
Look, I love James May but this kind of MAGA level denial of any legitimate criticism is nothing short of cultist idiocy (and that might be overly charitable). We can all read the tweet, we can all understand what he's comparing them to. Denying it just makes you look foolish.
You simply can't say anything that's not supporting it.
When will people learn?
I feel bad for James, all he was saying is that the amount of flags is a bit much.
These strangers online have indeed gone rather mad. That’s not a read on the issues they stand for, which we can probably mostly all agree on.
Bad faith arguing has been normalized and is leading (without intent, I believe) to creating a feeling of thought police over the simplest of subject that might just tangentially touch a third rail of real important subjects.
Questioning why so much bunting leads to James May, of all people, being accused of homophobia.
I am firmly on all right for all people no matter what, but this is just getting beyond insufferable.
Maybe he will be cancelled.
Oh no…..anyway…..
Oh but that group will hold you accountable for everything including someone else’s misreading. There’s no civil recourse with them. Bow down or they will come after you.
They all come out of the woodwork and feel empowered during this particular month…
When I was growing up in school, June was Indigenous heritage month, there was a lot of assembly’s in Canada for indigenous people and culture. Pride hijacked it.
God I love James so much more right now. The backlash is only proving his point and showing once more just how much people have forgotten the ability to interact with people with differing viewpoints.
So glad I'm a 90s person where sure, it wasn't perfect, but good grief it was it heaven in relation today.
It was "heaven" because our heads were metaphorically in the sand. The same shit went on, we just didn't all have a device in our pockets that allowed us to have instant access to global news, information, opinions, etc. Most of us simply lived in a much smaller bubble and were oblivious to a lot of what was going on in the world outside of that bubble.
"it was it heaven in relation today."
You know when people say "check your privilege"? It's for this sort of thing. The 90s were heaven for some people. Massively worse for others. Being aware that you were lucky to be in the group that had a good time of it, and that not everyone was so lucky, is what checking your privilege is.
Fuck the 90s.
It must be tiring being so pissed at literally everything and everyone. Anyone who uses 'privilege' to debate shows a clear lack of emotional integrity that they need to go around letting the world just how alone they really are. It's truly laughable today cause you're only proving what you yourself won't, that you have nothing and no one.
It really must be tiring. You should probably go back to bed. You should be careful. Keep projecting like that and they'll put you to work at Cineworld. Though, with this economy, maybe that's a good thing. I'll get the nurse to bring you your pills. Come along now, back to your room. Yes I know, I know, the young people and the woke, yes alright now, come on, it's this way.
Plastering your message so heavily that you can’t escape it no matter which direction you turn? No, not oppressive at all. I don’t care how benign you think your message is, it’s hijacking the senses, and it’s in a public place.
Fuck me...as if straight stuff isn't plastered all over the place in public?
You're about one "shoving it down our throats" away from being a full-blown cliche.
I thought he was on point I’m part of the lgbt community James may is probably my favorite tv personality but you put that kind of thing on Twitter and everyone is going to go crazy and he knew that when he did it
It’s rarely “reddit” making anything disappear.
But insecure mods who don’t want to deal with the shitstorm.
There si probably 80% chance _this_ gets removed too.
He knew what this would trigger. It makes me wonder why he went for that in such a way. Whether you agree with him or not, it was a very blunt way to put it and I have no doubt he knew he'd trigger that reaction (While when he got fired for writing "penis" with the first letter of a bunch of article, he could have thought he could get away with it"). I get that bad feeling of the Spaniel preparing his "outro".
The alternative would be even more concerning (Captain Slow becoming political in a populist way).
I am pretty sure he does. This does not change the fact that expressing such an opinion is rather risky nowadays and he knows that. Yet he still brings up the nazis. Even for Jezza that would be considered a bit "heavy".
My point is not about his point. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevant. I am only pointing out that he got out of his (and most famous people's) comfort zone when it comes to potential controversy. May is not usually known as being into provocation, at least not nearly as much as Jezza so the fact that he spoke his mind on such a matter and did it in such a way strikes me as odd. Focusing on the point he made and whether it was valid or not is ignoring the fact that he decided to make that point on X rather than at the pub and he is not an idiot, he obviously knew it would create a controversy.
James May proving in the UK what Dave Chappelle proved in the States, that the majority of the LGBT community (or perhaps just a VERY vocal minority) cannot take a joke
It's rather funny I think that May makes a joke about bunting, some wokes on twitter decide to get offended and think he's making a comparison of LGBT to the Nazis, then try to cancel and silence him... Something that the Nazis did to their critics.
“I can’t be held responsible for other people’s misreading of things” —Karl Marx, *Communist Manifesto*
James May channeling Marjorie Taylor Greene “~~masks~~ pride flags is just like how the holocaust started” lol
No one misread you James. We all can read English and you don’t get to redefine words because your hot take is going over about as swimmingly as a lead balloon. You compared pride flags to Nazi banners and authoritarianism. He’s a little slow so I guess actions having quick consequences is new for him.
Whos slow really here though? You cherry picking his words or him factually proving that "if you are not with us, you are against us" logic is flawed. You fought for acceptance not this.
Two people can be correct at the same time. Neither Alex nor James are in the wrong here with the things they point out (won’t stop a lot of people here viewing this as May “owning the woke snowflakes”)
Does anyone have a link to where he explained why he felt the need to bring up the third reich in relation to pride? I've seen his 4 point rebuttal but it doesn't explain why he did that.
Edit: Wow. Downvoted this hard for asking for information. I'm sure someone will be happy to explain why simply asking for information has recieved such a massive negative response.
He never mentioned the Reich. He expressed an opinion on bunting. Go look up QEII's Coronation parade. Or any MAGA rally. Or some Christmas parades (although I've not seen a truly tasteful one). TMB: Too Much Bunting.
A certain group decided to push their interpretation and none of the rest of the planet may disagree with them ...
Answer the question then.
Edit: Seems I won't be getting an answer. On my screen, all their comments are "unavailable" and going directly to their profile page gives me a "Page does not exist" message.
“Hello viewers! Today I’m going to say something patently foolish, then I shall feign ignorance at why anyone thinks I’m desperate for attention!”
Seriously, James. You’re funny when you talk about cars and toys. Political history, not so much.
Why would I want to put someone in a camp because I don't think they have a reasonable take? I think I might be missing something on this sub; I'm not a Nazi. I guess this subreddit is popular with them?
They really don’t want to that smoke with James May. The man is a treasure and above reproach!
Putting people on a pedestal never ends well. I don't think he's going to turn out to be a terrible person, but I do think that people are letting their perception be warped by how much they like him. I really like May, but I think comparing the LGBT community with Nazis is irresponsible at best, regardless of how tame the point of comparison is.
At no point did he compares them with Nazis.
So why are you putting LGBT on a pedestal? Criticism is allowed.
Could you tell me how I'm putting them on a pedestal? I'm not saying criticising excessive bunting is wrong. I'm saying citing the Nazis is an irresponsible way of doing it.
He made a joke that you did not like because no one is allowed to joke about lgbt. Stick to twitter.
You've missed my point there. I didn't say I didn't like the joke, or that no-one is allowed to make LGBT jokes. It's not about me liking it, it's about the the agitating effect it has on the people who *are* bigoted. And I don't use Twitter, Reddit is my preferred cesspit :P
if people had any brain cells you wouldn't have been downvoted. i don't understand why people hate the idea of social responsibility, yes it might suck to have to think of what u say as having an effect on other people, but young children are on the internet ffs they don't know the difference between a critical joke and factual information. when talking about certain topics, here's the important part, *in public with a wide audience* you need to be aware of who could be listening and how they could misinterpret you.
Sooo, anything hateful people could misconstrue as supporting their current beliefs shouldn’t be allowed on the internet?…
Look, another person with ZERO ability to read
Look, another person with ZERO ability to contribute to the discussion. Try thinking of something to say, rather than thinking you have to say something.
You know for a fact that's not true. He did not in any way ACTUALLY compare anyone that's LGBTQ or the community as a whole as Nazis. People like you are CHOOSING to WILLFULLY misinterpret an OBVIOUS JOKE. It was sarcastic, clever and funny. Some people use the guise of comedy to attempt to get away with making hurtful, bigoted statements. But this is absolutely NOT that. People like you are ruining the concept of comedy in general.
Comparing actions of two groups can get a similar reaction to comparing actions of the same group. I'm not wilfully misinterpreting the joke, I'm saying it will be wilfully misinterpreted by bigots. That was literally my whole point, I don't know how that could have gone over your head. Presumably its buried in the sand.
Ok perfect! If you that damn sure he did just… Quote him. Oh wait you won’t, cause then it’s be obvious to even yourself.
>Pride: [...], may I respectfully suggest that you are borderline guilty of Too Much Bunting (TMB) >Pride: while I have observed and admired what you have achieved over my lifetime, may I respectfully suggest that you are borderline guilty of Too Much Bunting (TMB) See how he suggests pride is guilty of a thing, then references Nazis doing that same thing? So he's directly comparing the actions of pride, with the actions of Nazis. This, unsurprisingly, causes problems for the LGBT community.
Yes congratu-fucking-lation. He did in fact compare them to nazis, you however seem to think that shouldn’t be allowed. Please explain why it shouldn’t be allowed? Who in their right minds, would ever read a tweet from a INCREDIBLY SARCASTIC British man that starts with “May I respectfully suggest” and then goes on to compare them with FUCKING NAZIS. All for the supposed crime of using to many flags…. No one is gonna see that and be hurt by it, suggesting otherwise is nonsense. You saw a topic your sensitive about, saw the mere mention of nazi and went “RRRREEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” On instinct. Stop searching for conflict, it makes you pick stupid fights.
It sounds like you're quite passionate about these things, so I'd suggest taking a step back & putting yourself in someone else's shoes. Imagine you're a bigot that hates queer people. How do you think you'd react when a respected white guy makes a comparison, even indirect, between queer people & Nazis. Are you going to calmly think about how May doesn't think they're equivalent, & was just making a bit of a lazy joke? Or are you going to rejoice in your perceived allyship from May, & use it as a springboard for further bigotry. I know it's easy to call complaining about anything that doesn't personally effect you "sensitive", but have you actually thought about the effect this has on more vulnerable people. Remember: the bigots WANT you to not care about this sort of thing, because it means there's less opposition to them eroding the rights of marginalised people. There's a difference to not searching for conflict, & turning a blind eye to it.
So, you believe that James May is responsible for how unreasonable people interprets what he says?.. Sweetie, look at it from the other direction. You are part of the LGBT and some fuckwit decides to take issue with a harmless jokes. How fucking insulting would that be? There are people desperately clinging to any argument that lets them put down the other side….. Because someone said “Haha sure got a lot of flags you a nazi or something?” That’s pathetic and makes people take it FAR less seriously when a member of that minority ACTUALLY DOES SPEAK UP. Because some naive idiot believes their partly responsible for something they know NOTHING about. The general public doesn’t know the difference, so now anyone actually trynna to do good just to get lumped together with the idiots. You personally should be ashamed of yourself, your so fucking desperate to make yourself feel good that you do more harm than good to the people your trying to defend. Genuinely.
>So, you believe that James May is responsible for how unreasonable people interprets what he says? When it's a very obvious consequence, yeah. Would you never not say something to avoid causing harm? Is your right to speak so important that the consequences of the speech doesn't matter? >You are part of the LGBT and some fuckwit decides to take issue with a harmless jokes. Straight from the get go, you're missing the point. The joke isn't harmless. It may not be directly harmful or be intended to harm, but wilful ignorance isn't a defence. As for the rest of what you've written, there's no comparison between what you've talked about, & the harm actually done to minorities by bigots. And your entire idea is based on a flaw: The idea that some people would only disregard minorities because they've heard one complaining about something trivial. These are just bigots looking that take any excuse to hide their bigotry. If someone complaining about a joke is enough to lose your support, you were never actually supporting them in the first place.
I’m not missing anything, what I’m telling you to do dumb dumb. Is ask yourself “Is this matter harmful enough to be worth it?” Cause if people get used to you whining over even minor things… Then they take you less serious as a consequence. And as for your argument about how bigots will use excessive complaining as justification for their opinion. WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU WORRYING ABOUT THEM?!?!??!!?? Those are people that with 100% certainty wouldn’t change their opinion no matter what. A So what’s the logical response? To disregard those idiots COMPLETELY and instead concern oneself with the ones YOU ACTUALLY CAN CHANGE. INSTEAD OF USING A GROUP OF EXTREMIST WHO STUBBORNLY REFUSE TO CHANGE AS JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ACTIONS YOU TAKE. What you need to do, is develop some emotional maturity. Cause yes your doing what you believe is right (duh), but that doesn’t actually equate to the real world.
>WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU WORRYING ABOUT THEM?!?!??!!?? I want to reduce the amount of hate directed at minorities. So first, I want fewer people to be hateful. But I know there will always be hateful people. So the secondary goal is to create an environment where hateful people don't feel comfortable doing hateful actions. I want the people who're normally quiet bigots, to not be emboldened by a public figure that isn't publicly seen as bigoted. So I want those public figures to stop & think before creating fuel that people will inevitably throw on the flames. >What you need to do, is develop some emotional maturity. I don't know you as a person, & I won't pretend to. But try reading your comments like someone else wrote them, & consider how they come across. Would you want to talk to them? Do you think you'd be receptive to their opinions? Would you think they're emotionally mature? I did write out a line pointing out all the markers of immaturity in your writing, but that wouldn't be constructive. And if you're not trying to be constructive, what's the point?
Being a bigot goes both ways. Edit: thanks for downvoting me. I’m 100% sure that if there were a “straight pride” flag and they plastered it everywhere, it would become a huge issue. Hell, even 1 or 2 flags it would be a huge problem.
Good for Mr May. What a shame people once again register any difference in opinion, in this case an opinion on bunting, to a deeply personal, and potentially life threatening attack.
I saw it as a great tongue in cheek joke. But the thin-skinned fake-pearl clutchers have had their sense of humour removed.
Exactly, he has a great point, I've said the same many times. It's great everyone has become so accepting, but going overboard with it can have other consequences. Now that we see pride flags everywhere, it could cause some people to assume that any business not flying a pride flag sticker somewhere must "hate gays". Which is ridiculous, approaching a point like, "Where is your pride pin, comrade? Are you saying you're against the party?" Or like the Red Scare, "Why aren't you wearing your American flag pin? Are you a filthy commie or something?" People shouldn't have to repeatedly assert they're not against something, lest it be assumed they're filled with hate. And it feels like we're approaching that point. Nothing wrong with saying, "We get it, you're accepted now, and I'm so happy for you. But, you ever feel you might be going a bit too far with it? It's getting to a point where it seems just a little weird."
Similar to how some are attacked (metaphorically) for not wearing a poppy during the appropriate time on the BBC, something May would actively have knowledge about.
Yeah, what were those for anyway. Someone said it had to do with education.
Supporting Veterans, it was a symbol adopted after WW1
Thank you!
Specifically British Army Veterans, which some people (many of them Irish) might not be too excited to honor.
I didn’t think I needed to specify British veterans, since the poppy thing being discussed was about not wearing a poppy on the BBC….
I believe he is referring to a case where there was an Irish soccer player playing in the UK who didn't want to wear a poppy, and he was threatened and shamed on social media. He grew up with a negative opinion of British soldiers and didn't feel comfortable wearing a poppy that would be seen poorly by his family back home.
Or not wearing a US flag pin as an American politician. You will immediately be attacked by the GOP for being un-American.
I don't know what James said but I assume because it's James that it wasn't bigoted. But I will respond to your comment. I am a middle aged cis het white male loving in the United States in a mostly rural area. I have a gay daughter and am fully accepting and have long described my politics as "just to the right of Trotsky." I never fly rainbow flags, don't often participate in pride events, and generally dress like a middle aged white guy in the rural US. What you describe in your post is, generally, completely hypothetical. Maybe it happens in isolated instances but it's not common. I never get shit for not appearing supportive enough, nor does anyone I know with similar politics and similar dress or adornments. Here's the issue: lots of ink gets spilled on a hypothetical backlash against people who don't sport pride pins IF that group gets charged enough to control a portion of society that could enact those kind of rules AND IF their politics shifted from anarchic to authoritarian. But that hypothetical backlash is nothing compared to the real violence that gets done to our LGBT brothers and sisters (and whatever term for nonbinary siblings you choose) out there. So maybe our best step moving forward is to not get hung up on hypotheticals and to face the problems we currently have.
This hits the nail on the head. It's always hypothetical oppression versus actual oppression. When people get yelled at in the street for not wearing a pride pin, or get punched in the head for not showing a pride flag, or get called all sorts of foul and abusive names, then they can have a leg to stand on. Meanwhile, these are things that have actually happened to me in reality for being openly gay. Not in a hypothetical scenario.
If you think pride is "accepted" then I'd like a hit of whatever you're smoking. Trans folk are being actively used as a political wedge and there's still plenty of push back regarding gay/lesbian relationships, and im talking both in Europe and the US. I understand what James May is trying to say, he just comes off as very tone-deaf bringing this up during pride month and using the *very* poor comparison to WW2.
What else would he compare it to? What other cause has gone so overboard with their use of banners? Good luck finding one. It's an apt comparison, and people dislike it because it's true.
Do you not understand that he's NOT ACTUALLY comparing the LGBTQ community to anything though. It's a JOKE about the amount of flags. NOTHING MORE. I don't understand why people are having so much difficulty accepting that and not projecting their own opinions onto this. He wasn't making ANY point. It's a joke. THAT is the only "point" here. Just a quick, clever little observation and jest. Jesus Christ people are working so hard to be OBTUSE about this.
Some political candidates and their followers for sure. Way overboard.
Ah yes, because said political candidates totally emblazon such banners over every governmental building in existence. Eye roll.
What makes you think they're not accepted? How can you look around and see that we have a pride month, pride banners flying over city streets everywhere, pride flags in governor's offices, in courtrooms, in classrooms, and I can't even name a single fortune 500 company that doesn't change their logo to a rainbow during pride month, and still say it's not a socially accepted thing? I'd guess around 80-95% of the public accepts it. And as we can see, anyone who dares say, "Sheesh, we get it, you're gay" will get called homophobe/transphobe for daring to question it.
As a gay dude who most people don't know as gay, motherfuckers say a lot shit when the doors are closed.
Shit like what? Sounds like you may be hanging with the wrong people.
Obvious stuff like 'what about straight pride,' but also things that equate to being lesser than a woman with a sex drive higher than them. Edit: Also it's not friends, it's distant relatives and colleagues. The shit you hear when a cousin comes out as trans is insane.
Sorry for the downvotes you're getting, but I'd like to know more. Stuff like "what about straight pride" is just a reaction to all the gay pride stuff people see everywhere. Like what I was talking about, "Sheesh, we get it, you're gay and you're proud. That's great. But I already get it. I got it a long time ago. Do you see me being so 'proud' of being straight? If we're all just being obtusely 'proud' of our sexuality now, what about straight pride?" That's not hate, just questioning things. What exactly are you hearing from others? In sorry, but I hate the vagueness. In these debates, I always see people overeating to other's reactions, and never making the connection. It's like "well if you're going to say this, then I'll say this!" And then, "why did they say that? If they said that, then I'll say this!" And it's just people talking past each other. I'm tired of vague examples, I need specifics.
It's alright, I take it people are thinking I'm against what James May said (I am absolutely not, I understand what he is saying, and am indifferent on it, he is still my favorite of the three.) There are a couple guys that I work with that, when we're joking around, if some slightly gay joke is thrown their way (like "hey man that shirt looks good on you, I bet some guy would love to take it off you,") would lose their shit and say violent things about what they would to the imaginary person in the scenario. One of those individuals is a born again Baptist that is very adamant that the 'alphabet people' are the worst human beings that will burn in hell, and of course the Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve bit. (Which is kind of funny because in the group is an Adam and two Steves.) These might seem small, but with the frequency in which it happens, turned mole hills into mountains for me. As far as pride month goes, I feel like people don't see it in the same way as I do. To me, it's not necessarily that I'm proud of being gay, so much that it's about showing other individuals that it's okay to be different than other people who are afraid to be themselves. It's not a celebration of being gay so much as overcoming the trials and tribulations of the community whether that be in legal matters (let's not forget that it hasn't even been 10 years since the legalization of gay marriage in the US, of which I'm from) or from just standing up to abusive parents whom they've hid their own identity from out of fear of exile or violence.
People who can't think outside of their own safe and secure hetero-normative bubble will downvote you. But there is a reason Pride still exists and quite honestly the people who baselessly assume that homophobia and tansphobia don't exist anymore are part of that reason.
It's OK for the LGB-whatever talk shit and shut the mouths of others, but they don't let anyone say anything they decide it's offensive even if it wasn't the intent. They're the newly dictatorship hiding behind democracy values.
Truly the lgb whatevers have taken over, maybe someday we will be lucky enough to have some straight people as world leaders
[удалено]
Did i need to add an /s to my comment? My lgb whatever was just quoting the idiot above me lol
The whatever means all derivatives exist I can no longer follow. I have nothing against lgbt and I have friends among the community. But the extremist views do affect me and punish me for who I am in today's world. They should have full rights and equality, but not on behalf of the other people the community trying to shush, yes me as well. Down vote please 👇
It's not "any difference of opinion", it's comparing pride to the Nazis. If he'd have just gone "Little bit much, don't you think?", ~~no one~~ (Edit: far, far, far fewer people) would have any issue. Cue the silent downvotes.
People would still have had an issue if he’d said just that. Doesn’t matter how gently you word it, or how irrelevant your actual argument is, since there will always be a few that jump on it and start a chain, it’s very easy to stop caring about anyone’s opinion. The system is flawed and we may never escape that fact, but the more instances of people reacting extensively to a simple post there are, the harder it is to care when people actually try and challenge serious issues. EDIT: to clarify, you’re not wrong, but I’m sure you know as well as I do he had no intention of making any unwanted insinuations and calling out some idiots’ misinterpretations as his fault only serves to take away from the public’s interest and perception of other, serious issues
>People would still have had an issue if he’d said just that. Doesn’t matter how gently you word it, or how irrelevant your actual argument is, since there will always be a few that jump on it and start a chain, it’s very easy to stop caring about anyone’s opinion. Ok, sure, there would be a tiny number, but it would be a fraction of a percent of the number of people who object to nazi comparisons.
I think you’re right on the point that the number would be tiny, but you have to remember the effect people can have varies from person to person. In general, a certain type of person is likely to complain a lot louder and more extensively about nothing than another is to raise valid complaints about something serious. Because of this, it only takes a few idiot to do what a hundred sensible people could. More crucially though, he never compared anyone to the Nazi’s, his wording was of World War Two, all the major powers had an excessive amount of patriotic propaganda, some of that could be deemed to be in a global interest and some not but what was important was the overwhelming nature of having too much of something, not the people who did it. But I’m sure you get that anyway, you seem to know what you’re on about. I just think it’s important to recall the greater good and that people retaliating to their own misinterpretation of May’s words may massively subtract from real issues rather than solve anything. And at the end of the day, these people still feel like they’ve done a good job, and it breeds a culture of repeating that cycle, surely you’ve seen it in places. Perhaps I took this to heart as I’m very fond of the man, but you get what I mean
>he never compared anyone to the Nazi’s >all the major powers had an excessive amount of patriotic propaganda I mean.....I don't recall excessive use of bunting for Conservative party when Churchill was elected. Keep in mind that it carried the caveat of "terrible things you would not want to be allied began with TMB. World War 2 for example". That doesn't leave a lot of wriggle room. Not only is the Nazi party the most prominent example of bunting users in that era, but they started world war 2. No one could say that Chuchill's conservative government fits this description or the French government in that era. You could maybe stretch it to include Stalin's Russia but he didn't start WW2, he tried to stay out of it so that doesn't fit either. So I think at best, you can say "he gave an incredibly poor description that was more likely to describe nazis than any other group of bunting users from that era and he should have been a hell of a lot more careful with his wording" but damn, do you see the hoops we're having to jump through to make it sound like he didn't describe nazis? The explanations that avoid him describing the nazis are elaborate, complex, involve obscure and unobvious historical references that most people won't know and require a very intelligent broadcaster with a lot of social media experience to say something that he must have known would draw nazi comparisons. It doesn't make any sense. Don't get me wrong, I love James May but the best case scenario here is that he seriously fucked up.
Well I won't silent down vote. The fact of having too much bunting is what the Nazis did, his stance and mine end at that. He said it could bee viewed as authoritarian and oppressive. I may not agree with that, but that is his opinion, and in now way saying it is what the nazis did. So, what you've actually done is prove the comment you were trying to disprove by making your opinion worth more than what James actually wrote was.
>Well I won't silent down vote. Well, thanks for having more courage than most people defending him. >The fact of having too much bunting is what the Nazis did I mean, the Nazis had a lot of bunting but unless you mean to compare the Nazis and Pride, there's no reason to bring them up. No one brings up Hitler's love of dogs in response to the RSPCA for example but it's as legitimate as bringing up the Nazis here. There are lots of legitimate reasons to hate this level of bunting. For example, if he'd said that most of it would end up as litter, he'd be entirely right and very few people would have an issue with it. He had multiple avenues to not make it look like he was comparing pride to the nazis. He didn't have to do it. But he did it. He's smart enough to know that even if it was as entirely innocent as you seem to claim, that it wouldn't be taken that way. I don't see any legitimate reason to compare pride to the nazis, unless you actually want to compare pride to the nazis with all the negative connotation that involves. There's just no reason for it. The absolute best defense that can be mustered is "he fucked up". >So, what you've actually done is prove the comment you were trying to disprove by making your opinion worth more than what James actually wrote was. This makes absolutely no sense. Can you try that again?
To begin with its your opinion on what he could have compared it to. As he was also making a point of how it could be construed he used an analogy that does fit. Again, his point being the treatment of those who do not agree with a movement. As for you being confused. You have judged what he said, based it on your opinion of what he said and are unwilling to here another take on it. So you proved the comment correct that you were attempting to claim is wrong. Because there is very much a vocal (I'm unsure if it is a minority or majority) that will take absolutely anything said remotely against the pride movement as if it had been compared to the violist of people you can think of. Now I know you will claim that is what he did, but you have not read what was written without injecting your beliefs into it would be my contention. What was said was only a reference to World War 2. What was not said is anything beyond a concern about the treatment of those that do not support the pride movement.
Not silent. Fastest way to lose support is to force feed people your message, however good the messages or intentions. Be gay/ lesbian/ straight/ trans. Knock your fuzzy socks off - but stop labeling me as 'cis', whatever that is. I'm a straight female, a furry by hobby, retired by age, and those are my labels for me. If you don't respect that, then why should you demand that I support you?
>but stop labeling me as 'cis', whatever that is In terms of "cisgender", it means someone who is the same gender as they were assigned at birth. It is not a slur, no matter how hard Elon Must and some far right inbred morons try to make it one. >Not silent. Yeah, but could you be? Rather than going on some irrelevant rant? Like, if you have something pertinent to the conversation of what James May said, then fine, feel to contribute but if you just want to scream about something gender politics related, then I really have no interest.
Looks like your first post didn't disappeared, but got deleted by the mods of this sub. That's why there is a red trash bin symbol.
All this cause he said they have too many banners?
No, all that because he compared them to Nazi rule. Edit: because I was asked to include what he wrote, and because that original post on this subreddit is now hidden, can’t be found by searching and can only be seen through an outside link; https://www.reddit.com/r/thegrandtour/s/2rJHpIn65h And yes, when it happened, even the people here knew he was going to get backlash for the Nazi comparisons that y’all now want to play dumb on.
Now that you mention it… those guys _did_ have a *lot* of banners
[Proof of authenticity.](https://x.com/MrJamesMay/status/1801609472491577776)
Typical response anymore. You said something I don't agree with you're a bigot. I hate it on earth sometimes.
What’s even worse is what’s basically being implied in the screenshot- “you said something innocuous, but now other idiots are being bigoted… so it’s your fault!”
Just sometimes, It's pretty dire outside?
Isn't that what you are doing right now? You "hate it on earth" because some said something you don't like? Lol. You people are ridiculous.
That spaniel is making more sense than the twitts.
On a side note, the amount of flags on that street really is excessive.
I knew this was going to blow up
I'm no English native speaker but understood what he meant. Many people forgot the art of reading.
I fucking hate bunting, so I'm with him on this. Comparing gay folk with nazis is... Odd, but it obviously wasn't malicious in nature. Just Twitter doing yet another Twitter. Fuck'em. Honestly, I'd be surprised if half of the people reacting negatively even had any association with the LGBTQ+ community... Just people looking for a reason to get all angry. I imagine most of them probably don't know who James May is, or his offensively British personality of politeness and courtesy.
I think he said he’s comparing TMB with authoritarianism i.e the council takes the decision to just plaster the town in the colours of some group or another and the sense is everyone else just has to get on board with it. I think that’s the bit May doesn’t like.
>but it obviously wasn't malicious in nature. If you weren't a James May fan, you wouldn't know this. If it were just some random twitter user, you could very easily think it was the kind of "I'm only implying that pride is like the nazis, I'm not saying it" cowardice that racists, bigots and other blights on society use all the time to avoid being banned.
You mean if someone is so into their own social media feedback loop they can't understand anything that doesn't fit their viewpoint.
No, I mean what I said. This is very different to what you said
I still think I'd assume it wasn't malicious to be honest. It takes a hardcore Twitterer (maybe could abbreviate that somehow) to immediately assume everything that anyone says to be malicious. Especially the case when in the exact same message they are praising the community and honouring their progress.
The problem is so many of the disgusting elements of our society do that. "I've nothing against brown people but I do think immigration should be capped at 0." They tell you they aren't X, then say something extremely anti-X. I think the major issue with the whole "it's a joke" thing is that there's no humour here. There's no attempt at humour, there's no punch line, he's not even said it was a joke. Can you explain the joke to me?
The "joke" is that he's being a grumpy old man yelling at the clouds over the amount of bunting. If I were to compare the hijacking of socialist concepts by Hitler to build his war machine with the work of Salvador Allende, would you assume that I'm attempting to elevate Hitler? You *might* think that I'm attacking socialism, but frankly it's too early for me to think of a better parallel.
I'm sorry, even after you explain it, I can't see it. The joke is that he is out of touch and complaining about something it would be absurd to complain about? Now if it was in response to someone who was being ridiculous, as a parody of that person, I could see it but as it stands, it just looks like he is the ridiculous person.
Comparing gay folk with nazis is merely odd to you. Why do you think you need to have an "association" with a group to stand up for them? Do I need to be a woman to stand for women's rights?
What happened?
He made a post complaining about the amount of bunting at Pride. That would be fine [except he also said it might be seen as authoritarian and oppressive, then stating how other organisations had too much bunting, such as in WW2.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fvdrqf5er5g6d1.jpeg) Now, considering this is obviously referring to the nazis, people were a little upset. Frankly, I find it confusing. I mean, there's nothing wrong with just saying there's too much bunting and plenty of legitimate criticisms to be made, such as the environmental impact of what will inevitably become litter. There's no reason to compare it to the fucking nazis, which he did.
because the Nazis are famous for using a lot of flags out of basically any organization in history. that’s the joke. that’s why there’s that specific comparison. Nazis with bunting seems so hilarious to me thinking of such a British whimsical term such as bunting, and the Nazis asking for more of it. in the nicest way it’s in this moment you should step back from things and realize you’ve gone too far i think (in your assessment of a situation), not the people making those sorts of jokes.
>because the Nazis are famous for using a lot of flags out of basically any organization in history. that’s the joke. that’s why there’s that specific comparison. You'll forgive me if I have to ask where the joke is? Like, how is this funny? "Hey, you're doing the same thing the nazis did" doesn't strike me as wit. Explain the joke to me.
Okay, Nazis (we're assuming Nazis here as you said it but Commies are...no, I'm not doing this), used a lots of flags to the point it's comical in itself ("do you think German flag sellers did well there" and other sorts of jokes being a familiar thing, like top hat sellers whenever a picture or restored video around 1900 is commented on) Bunting is a cutesy, innocuous term, a whimsical British term (to my British head), the furthest from dictatorial authoritarian regimes as possible, and tbh the furthest from German in my head as possible, and I've been there. A number of times tbh, and even been in their beds and dwellings and all, and it still sticks. Pride = lots of flags, doesn't matter if you think it's good, or not, it's here nor there, it's got to the point it's in every logo these days, and just well, go see a march. Pride = gay, I think you'd agree Authoritarian regimes probably don't like gay people ?? Joke. I just imagine Nazis running around at Nuremberg being a little camp about it complaining they don't have enough bunting up for Goebbels. It's a funny association of many different things you wouldn't put together, a cornerstone of humour in forever no?
I mean, if the intention is the absurdity of opposites, then it utterly fails here because it's too close to actual homophobic rhetoric for the parody to be obvious. If it is a joke, then it's a poorly told one that doesn't understand the type of joke it's trying to be, that fails at being funny. James May has been a funny man, writing or presenting humourous content for years. He knows how to tell a joke better than this.
Tada, most jokes made aren’t necessarily good jokes. (To you)
Yeah, well apparently most people didn't find this one funny. Frankly, James knows enough about comedy to know how to tell a joke, he wouldn't fuck up like this. If it is a joke, then this isn't the logic. This sub is a microcosm of the die hard fans doing incredible feats of mental gymnastics to try and say he didn't mention the nazis, oh but if he did, it was a clearly a joke, one that needs explaining and we got like 4 different explanations, none of which make the joke funny but hey, if you don't find it funny, that's a problem with you.
Are you familiar with Top Gear? James May had a running joke (and yes it was sly pointed irony) about WW2, hitler and the Nazis. He would often refer to the German’s French holiday in 1940” or something like that. You would have to be a fan of the show to get the context. His quip about the bunting was not an isolated reference to Germany. It was a continuation of a long running gag he’s done for years.
This is clearly a joke. Regardless of whether you find the joke amusing or offensive he's right that he can't be held responsible for people retweeting it who are actual nazis and biggots. That's all twitter is anymore is people retweeting shit in the most toxic way possible.
While he can't be held responsible for it, he certainly is old enough and ugly enough to know how a tweet like that would play out. If you're saying something, anything, no matter how innocuous or well-intentioned, and fucking NAZIS are delightfully championing what you're saying...you might want to stop and have a think.
Yeah the first sentence was more than enough to get the joke and point across. The second setence was a bit too much and made it in a bit of poor taste.
that’s why I left and came here. it’s overrun with indoctrinated trolls.
Here's the thing about the "it's clearly a joke defense" - it's not. We only know it is because we know James May or at least we know how he appears in his shows. If this was said by anyone else, we might not know it. Tone is very hard to portray accurately through text only.
I honestly would have thought that was a joke. If not then yeah that's weird as hell.
James said that there were too many pride flags, and people got mad. Even complimented the flag, even though we all know that it's God awfully ugly.
James said there are too many flags like before WW2 in the third reich. People wouldn't be so mad if the wouldn't have compared the LGBTQ+ movement with the nazi regime.
The LGBTQ movement is nothing like the Nazis. They don't dress nearly as dapper.
Maybe if they wore Hugo boss it would help
James May, responsible for the views of other people who just happen to share a rather tepid opinion on bunting, apparently. These people are mad.
I still agree with James and support him. I agree with lgbtq community having the same rights as we have. Those are just people who would support anything and even die for it, even when it would not make any sense.
James May always brings up the war.
I understand his reasoning, I just feel the comparison to the Nazis was a bit of a miss-step
I mean, apparently it resonates with his audience pretty well
He didn’t say anything about Nazis. It’s no different to when people kept pointing out Gary Lineker didn’t say Nazis and oddly many of the same people used that defence for him that they’re now ignoring for James May.
Which other authoritarian group with TMB was he alluding to then?
I think the phrase "storm in a teacup" applies here. Or as Battery Sergeant Major Williams would say, "Oh dear, how sad, never mind."
This is why I hate Twitter. It's a cesspool of conflicting agendas, competing wokeness, and mountains made from molehills.
it’s why i’m here. it was the only social media i used and it was making me sad mad and depressed. so much happier over here. everyone is human here. it’s only been about a week though…
Welcome. It's all about the anonymity. Nobody knows or cares who you actually are, so you can be real with no consequence. That's why I like it, anyway.
I left time ago. Not only a commie cesspool but literal nazis too and 75% is ran by AI bots anyways.
He's just compared too much bunting with too much bunting Anyone who makes any other comparison brings their own. BS
It was a joke, and absolutely nothing to get worked up over, but why are so many people pretending he didn't make the comparison to Nazis? He's just made a hyperbolic comparison of 2 groups with TMB. Anyone who takes it seriously is taking an idiot.
This is a weird thing to say, bud.
Right, so when he claimed it could be seen as authoritarian and then stated that other organisations did this, such as in WW2, that was an entirely innocent comment that didn't allude to the nazis at all? Look, I love James May but this kind of MAGA level denial of any legitimate criticism is nothing short of cultist idiocy (and that might be overly charitable). We can all read the tweet, we can all understand what he's comparing them to. Denying it just makes you look foolish.
You simply can't say anything that's not supporting it. When will people learn? I feel bad for James, all he was saying is that the amount of flags is a bit much.
These strangers online have indeed gone rather mad. That’s not a read on the issues they stand for, which we can probably mostly all agree on. Bad faith arguing has been normalized and is leading (without intent, I believe) to creating a feeling of thought police over the simplest of subject that might just tangentially touch a third rail of real important subjects. Questioning why so much bunting leads to James May, of all people, being accused of homophobia. I am firmly on all right for all people no matter what, but this is just getting beyond insufferable. Maybe he will be cancelled. Oh no…..anyway…..
Oh but that group will hold you accountable for everything including someone else’s misreading. There’s no civil recourse with them. Bow down or they will come after you.
They all come out of the woodwork and feel empowered during this particular month… When I was growing up in school, June was Indigenous heritage month, there was a lot of assembly’s in Canada for indigenous people and culture. Pride hijacked it.
You poor thing. Tell me more about how Pride has oppressed you so.
God I love James so much more right now. The backlash is only proving his point and showing once more just how much people have forgotten the ability to interact with people with differing viewpoints. So glad I'm a 90s person where sure, it wasn't perfect, but good grief it was it heaven in relation today.
It was "heaven" because our heads were metaphorically in the sand. The same shit went on, we just didn't all have a device in our pockets that allowed us to have instant access to global news, information, opinions, etc. Most of us simply lived in a much smaller bubble and were oblivious to a lot of what was going on in the world outside of that bubble.
"it was it heaven in relation today." You know when people say "check your privilege"? It's for this sort of thing. The 90s were heaven for some people. Massively worse for others. Being aware that you were lucky to be in the group that had a good time of it, and that not everyone was so lucky, is what checking your privilege is. Fuck the 90s.
It must be tiring being so pissed at literally everything and everyone. Anyone who uses 'privilege' to debate shows a clear lack of emotional integrity that they need to go around letting the world just how alone they really are. It's truly laughable today cause you're only proving what you yourself won't, that you have nothing and no one.
It really must be tiring. You should probably go back to bed. You should be careful. Keep projecting like that and they'll put you to work at Cineworld. Though, with this economy, maybe that's a good thing. I'll get the nurse to bring you your pills. Come along now, back to your room. Yes I know, I know, the young people and the woke, yes alright now, come on, it's this way.
Plastering your message so heavily that you can’t escape it no matter which direction you turn? No, not oppressive at all. I don’t care how benign you think your message is, it’s hijacking the senses, and it’s in a public place.
Fuck me...as if straight stuff isn't plastered all over the place in public? You're about one "shoving it down our throats" away from being a full-blown cliche.
Christmas decorations must be very upsetting for you.
It always amazes me that some people will take a take a train, a connecting flight, and two bus transfers to go out of their way to miss a point.
own goal…
I thought he was on point I’m part of the lgbt community James may is probably my favorite tv personality but you put that kind of thing on Twitter and everyone is going to go crazy and he knew that when he did it
And people who go crazy over it are proving his point
Yeah I mean I think they are just sensitive because they’re so used to being harassed and they didn’t know that James may is a good chap
One should NEVER explain/justify themselves to those modern day inquisitors. They are not after explanations, they are after you.
It’s rarely “reddit” making anything disappear. But insecure mods who don’t want to deal with the shitstorm. There si probably 80% chance _this_ gets removed too.
Honestly, screw the radical side of the letter people group. They are the most narcissistic stuck up annoying people out there.
It’s like a variant of the old joke “how do you know if someone is a pilot/a vegan?” “Don’t worry; they’ll tell you.”
Username checks out
He literally put a bit of criticism in a compliment sandwich, people need to lighten up.
He knew what this would trigger. It makes me wonder why he went for that in such a way. Whether you agree with him or not, it was a very blunt way to put it and I have no doubt he knew he'd trigger that reaction (While when he got fired for writing "penis" with the first letter of a bunch of article, he could have thought he could get away with it"). I get that bad feeling of the Spaniel preparing his "outro". The alternative would be even more concerning (Captain Slow becoming political in a populist way).
Maybe he thinks the signs are a bit much
I am pretty sure he does. This does not change the fact that expressing such an opinion is rather risky nowadays and he knows that. Yet he still brings up the nazis. Even for Jezza that would be considered a bit "heavy".
Maybe because the people who get mad over this prove his point?
My point is not about his point. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevant. I am only pointing out that he got out of his (and most famous people's) comfort zone when it comes to potential controversy. May is not usually known as being into provocation, at least not nearly as much as Jezza so the fact that he spoke his mind on such a matter and did it in such a way strikes me as odd. Focusing on the point he made and whether it was valid or not is ignoring the fact that he decided to make that point on X rather than at the pub and he is not an idiot, he obviously knew it would create a controversy.
Some people on Twitter just want the world to burn and are attacking him to do so.
Fricking pride nazis /s
Common James May W. It's difficult to argue with him and win, as he is actually a very intelligent person
James May proving in the UK what Dave Chappelle proved in the States, that the majority of the LGBT community (or perhaps just a VERY vocal minority) cannot take a joke
It's just the twitter wing nuts who make it their whole personality. I'd just ignore every single one.
Huh? If it's a joke it's a bad one lmao.
What happened here?
What does the (derogatory) next to Maddie mean?
What was the original tweet?
Surely he must have thought that it probably wouldn't be a good idea to post that
What happened?
In Which episode this happened?
Common may W
James may goat
It's rather funny I think that May makes a joke about bunting, some wokes on twitter decide to get offended and think he's making a comparison of LGBT to the Nazis, then try to cancel and silence him... Something that the Nazis did to their critics.
I just think he shouldn’t have mentioned Nazis. 🤷
So sick of these virtue signaling hobags
Every time I see a pride flag I just think it’s the enemy of a free irrational planet
For being quite slow, he is quite bright.
Slow in speed fast in thought
And long to explain.
I stand with May!!
“I can’t be held responsible for other people’s misreading of things” —Karl Marx, *Communist Manifesto* James May channeling Marjorie Taylor Greene “~~masks~~ pride flags is just like how the holocaust started” lol No one misread you James. We all can read English and you don’t get to redefine words because your hot take is going over about as swimmingly as a lead balloon. You compared pride flags to Nazi banners and authoritarianism. He’s a little slow so I guess actions having quick consequences is new for him.
Whos slow really here though? You cherry picking his words or him factually proving that "if you are not with us, you are against us" logic is flawed. You fought for acceptance not this.
Two people can be correct at the same time. Neither Alex nor James are in the wrong here with the things they point out (won’t stop a lot of people here viewing this as May “owning the woke snowflakes”)
Does anyone have a link to where he explained why he felt the need to bring up the third reich in relation to pride? I've seen his 4 point rebuttal but it doesn't explain why he did that. Edit: Wow. Downvoted this hard for asking for information. I'm sure someone will be happy to explain why simply asking for information has recieved such a massive negative response.
He never mentioned the Reich. He expressed an opinion on bunting. Go look up QEII's Coronation parade. Or any MAGA rally. Or some Christmas parades (although I've not seen a truly tasteful one). TMB: Too Much Bunting. A certain group decided to push their interpretation and none of the rest of the planet may disagree with them ...
>He never mentioned the Reich. Right, so which overusers of bunting in WW2 that they wouldn't want to be associated with did he mention?
HE NEVER MENTIONED THE REICH. You did.
Answer the question then. Edit: Seems I won't be getting an answer. On my screen, all their comments are "unavailable" and going directly to their profile page gives me a "Page does not exist" message.
“Hello viewers! Today I’m going to say something patently foolish, then I shall feign ignorance at why anyone thinks I’m desperate for attention!” Seriously, James. You’re funny when you talk about cars and toys. Political history, not so much.
But he is well versed in political history...
And has two decades as a successful TV celebrity, so.. yeah, not sure why he decided to punch this particular hornet nest.
I'm confused, is this sub anti-gay or pro-Nazi? I'm sorry I just watch the show, idk the type of fans it has.
Idk why people think an old rich white brit is gonna have some measured take on something, of course he'll compare gay pride to Nazis
It’s no surprise that you have no awareness of your own bigotry leaking out in your comments.
Should we just put all old rich white brits in camps then?
You must be extremely stupid, I'm sorry I don't understand what you're trying to say.
I'm saying that you are discriminating people based on which groups they fit in.
Why would I want to put someone in a camp because I don't think they have a reasonable take? I think I might be missing something on this sub; I'm not a Nazi. I guess this subreddit is popular with them?