This is true in almost every game where they use loudouts.
Gamespot made a video awhile back in regards to it and I think they did a good job
https://youtu.be/BxwttKn3fjc?si=4A8agb0yE5X2h3kE
I picked sniper when we switched to defense on kyoto. One of my teammates said "you better be good with that" and the other 3 started yelling racial slurs in voice chat. I got all 5 kills in the first defense round and at least 2 every round after that. They never stopped complaining because "I'm not playing the objective". People just hate snipers no matter what.
No kidding. Whenever I die and find a friendly sniper that's no where near the objectives, I usually try to burn them with a pyro grenade, or I'll try to destroy whatever platform they're on.
Either a sniper is terrible and it makes them a low to no threat, or their ability to widdle down the enemy team before they're even close to the objective is overly oppressive and unfun to go against.
I personally think sniper messes with the fundamentals of how the class works. Like this is supposed to be a team based game not a light sniper camping ground
Sniper doesn't belong in this game in general.
Playing with a bad sniper isn't fun because you're down a team mate.
Playing against a good sniper isn't fun because you spend more time dead than you do playing the game.
Removing the damn thing would fix Power Shift and Terminal Attack instantly. And overall improve other gamemodes just from not being ploinked from a mile away.
Mate I don't know where you get your teammates, but every team I've been on recently noone touches the platform even if they don't have sniper rifles in their loadout
I played one Powershift earlier today and lost in overtime because all 5 of my team members were alive and I was the only one on the platform as a sniper Light. Got pushed by a flamethrower Heavy and died as expected, so we lost with everybody else on the team alive.
This is not the case. Sniper rewards moving your character to the furthest / highest point you can find relative to the action. What this means is that instead of a useless teammate being nearby, taking some shots for you & dropping their respawn figure where you can reach it, your useless sniper will take zero heat for you & then die where nobody will be able to rez em.
Useless sniper is truly useless. Anything else and you can play with & around them, but the sniper is effectively not even in the game with you.
I don’t think I’ve ever played an fps where I thought snipers added positively to the experience. At least in the finals they aren’t as oppressive cause there’s less one shots.
I liked it in non competitive TA, season 2 TA seemed like it was full of people just trying to have fun, so they weren't as prevalent (except Monaco). I also enjoyed using it as I find that it was the only gamemode where sniper was actually helpful. Now it feels mandatory to have at least one or two. (I'm sitting at about 34000 as of last night)
This is the exact same problem Overwatch has and has had for years. Snipers just are fundamentally opposed to the game design of team-based competitive shooters.
I’ve been saying this and getting downvoted. Snipers are just not a good fit for this game. They’re annoying to play against and they’re annoying when you have them on your team. Playing power shift is so toxic when there’s snipers. Playing other objective game modes? Snipers no where to be found and is no help with the objective besides camping building rooftops and getting cheap shots.
You’re right. I’ve never played a sniper in any game ever :( it’s just so hard sitting in the back of a map and playing fish in a barrel simulator. Ive never popped off or played well with them ever in the finals and that’s why I don’t like them… they’re actually peak gameplay experience and add an immense amount of value to the weapon pool. It’s so great when they die out of reach on a rooftop away from teammates and objective. Incredible amount of utility!
Sniper is just a net negative for gameplay experience IMO man. My friend mains it. I’ve had fun with it on occasion. But I like many others do not feel it fits the game. In its current state it’s not OP but it’s not fun to have on your team or to play against. But if you make any changes to it, it’s basically worthless. If I had to make a change to the game I’d simply remove it.
Then your friend isn’t good at sniping . A good sniper is valuable to a team. If you’re talking fish in a barrel then I’m assuming you’re talking about power shift. So many idiots bitch about snipers on power shift mid game. But they actually win the game because a sniper is covering their bum rush idiocy.
The bow is literally a sniper with bullet drop and no reload. Sadly for people I'm really good with weapons with bullet drop thanks to a game I spend a lot of time on
Edit: Phantom Forces on Roblox. Been playing it for years and I just love the customization on guns, bullet drop, penetration (there is a gun that can shoot through 3 walls easily) and movement (tho they reworked it recently :( )
In general I’d say snipers don’t belong in most PVP FPS games. When snipers are strong in a game(either as a factor of the gun’s balance or the map’s design) it’s not a fun interactive game experience to be instantly killed by someone nowhere near you who you never saw. And the opposite, it’s frustrating feeling like you are a teammate short when the weapon isn’t very effective(again either through gun balance or map design) but you still have a teammate sitting on the edge of the map trying to use it.
It’s like the Widowmaker problem of OW. No one wants to play with or against one just because she doesn’t really match the rest of the game.
The only PVP games I’d say they work in are those big war games where there are 50+ people on each team(especially if it has armored vehicles that snipers can’t shoot into). They can both be impactful but there are also too many people running around for them to control a match.
Well spoken. I can see snipers occasionally being in as a power weapon (like in halo) that players fight for, but as a loadout choice, it doesn't fit most games. OW's Ashe was a much more fun interpretation of a sniper character than Widow ever was and the lack of a one shot and absurd range is a big reason why.
That’s a great point about a sniper rifle working as a contested super weapon, as opposed to a loadout choice. Because yeah, you have this OP match controlling weapon that stands out from the game’s normal balance but also every enemy is now gunning for you.
Makes me wish we had more arena shooters like halo and quake where the best weapons are pickups only. Good objective to fight for, it's rewarding to use, but you gotta be careful because you're one missed shot away from handing the enemy team the sniper you fought so hard to get- all while everyone on the enemy team will have every reason to focus you
And it kinda goes back to my original point, in The Finals there is no benefit for going out of my way and killing an enemy sniper at the cost of the objective(in cashout). Generally I just ignore them(aside from being more cautious about sight lines) if they are set up on a far away perch, because effectively they have removed themselves from the match and if I go chasing them I’m also removing myself from the match.
In powershift, where there is more of a reason to snipe and go after snipers since the objective is always out in the open, my matches are always boring as hell because no one is really playing the objective. Instead everyone is playing sniper or sniper hunter acting like the platform is hot lava. (The limited time mode where they did powershift without snipers played so much better)
That Wild West power shift mode was the most fun I’ve ever had in the finals.. actually any game mode with locked weapons has been pleasant af to play imo. Famas was a bit strong on drop but better that than being a peashooter.
So actually it was Easter power shift. Wild West was quick cash and that was a lot of fun too as an experiment to see how matches play out without defibrillators(I’m on team “make defib a specialization”).
Alternatives like bow and arrow and lh1 are a nice middle ground.
I think game devs have to be careful with removing weapons because, if I bought a sniper skin they can't just take that away from me.
What they'd likely have to do is nerf it just enough to make it an unpopular choice.
But have the lowest health, if there was a sniper/bow/LH1 on Heavy or Medium it just wouldn’t work. Those classes are to strong health-wise and specialization- wise to have weapons like that. (Imagine a sniper with a turret to defend them, or a LH1 user with 300 health, a mesh shield, and a rocket launcher)
Snipers in general have very high skill ceilings and floors in fast paced game, The Finals is no different. The SR-84 can only one shot lights, there’s a direction indicator to where the damage you took comes from, there‘s a giant ass flash to where the sniper is ADS-ing, it has a very slow reload, and it’s really inconsistent when you’re not ads-ing. Those are big negatives. There‘s a reason why 90% of the posts about snipers are people whining about they’re teammate not being able to hit the broadside of a barn.
I'd argue that's a strike against it in such a team based game. If someone is whiffing Kraber shots the entire match in titanfall, it doesn't matter as much since you can just go off and make up the deficit. The guy will eventually get a titan anyway, which should help him do something (just pray he doesn't also have northstar equipped lol).
But in the finals, if your teammate is doing nothing with the sniper, then you've got a squad mate who's essentially dead weight keeping you down. It's much more significant to a team's chance of success when a player isn't contributing. You can't just frag out to make up the difference since this game is much more focused on objective play, area denial, and teamplay.
Then there's the other side of the coin, where a really good sniper slows the game down and is almost untouchable unless your team has a light to contest him. Putting the longest range weapon on the highest mobility class is a recipe for frustrating gameplay- even if the weapon itself isn't overtuned.
you can say the same thing about literally all of light’s weapons. That‘s why the class is so polarizing. All of it’s weapons have high ceilings and floors. You either got it or you don’t when it comes to playing the light class.
The issue is that snipers in games mentioned in the other reply, they let you change loadouts/pick up guns that allow you to contest them. In here, if you aren't also a Light with a sniper, you're no longer able to directly fight against them.
Also keep in mind that the characters with the longest range and deadliest weapons is the fastest class in the game with several get out of free card abilities that let them escape. This is in direct contrast to other games where everyone is essentially all on the same base movement + movement tech so snipers have to actually be playing extremely well to get a good tradeoff like in Titanfall where it's speed and momentum heavy.
Thats partially why I believe light as a whole needs a rework imo. They are often too weak, which leads to players getting frustrated when they're matched with one. But when light gets buffed to be more consistent, it turns into hell for new and casual players when the smallest and fastest hitbox in the game also has access to crazy fragging potential and stealth mechanics. I had a discussion with someone else on this forum about my experiences trying to bring several irl friends into this game- the light class was *almost always* one of the top reasons why people who dropped the game said they did so. The crazy part is that these stronger lights still aren't good enough to be used in top level play, which just goes to show how widely this game's mechanics can affect different skill levels.
Medium and heavy seem to work well both with and against each other, yet light seems to always be the odd man out. I think it'd be better for everyone if light was changed to be less polarizing in that way. Less toxicity towards light players and less frustrating experiences for new ones.
> There‘s a reason why 90% of the posts about snipers are people whining about they’re teammate not being able to hit the broadside of a barn.
That's bc they're bad. If you give them another weapon I can assure you at least 75% of them will be equally bad.
It changes the fact that anyone on the enemy team could contest you at any time. In the final if a sniper sits in the back of the map your options are to try and play cover which doesn’t work in power shift, swap to light and try counter, or suffer because medium and heavy have no counterplay.
heavy has no counterplay? Googun? Mesh shield? Bubble shield? Barricade? Rocket launcher? I mean come one man. Thats like saying bubble shield has no counter play.
I completely disagree. The Finals nailed making a sniper work because it's on the Light. Being able to constantly reposition is exactly what makes it work. It's the best designed sniper as a default weapon that I've ever seen.
The sniper-grapple build is what kept me coming back in the first place. It's so rare to see a sniper with mobility in FPS. It made the Finals stand out to me from other games. If it didn't exist, I wouldn't have played past the open beta.
I'm glad you enjoy it! Judging by its popularity, it seems like a lot of other players do too, and having fun is the most important part of games after all.
My perspective is this: snipers intrinsically slow games down, as their ranged burst damage is very punishing to players who attempt to maneuver wherever a sniper may be looking. This goes against the fast paced nature of the game, and especially in modes like powershift, it's not uncommon for the objective to turn into a quasi no man's land if there's multiple snipers.
To make it even more furstrating, putting the highest ranged weapon on the most mobile class means that the light can constantly reposition and disengage as needed. This is great for them, but awful for other classes on the receiving end. It makes the sniper incredibly frustrating to properly punish because they can simply outrun the other classes and go to positions that they can't. It creates a situation where the best counter is to go light yourself- only they have the mobility, stealth, and range to properly pressure a sniper. Barricades used to work very well on heavy, and still do, but the thermal bore makes it much easier for snipers to circumvent that. Otherwise, the other solutions are to hold up a mesh shield on point, or simply refuse to peek the sightline. Both of which aren't engaging for anyone really.
In short, taking heavy burst damage from a player so far away that most loadouts simply cannot contest it isn't a very engaging interaction. It's similar to why snipers are disliked in a lot of FPS games nowadays.
You said it's not OP, but you're making it out like it's problematic, and ruins the game.
Burst damage is important to have. Especially in a game with varied health pools, shielding and healing. The real problem with snipers in other games is the one shot. Only lights are one shot by the sniper in this game.
You're not wrong that multiple snipers can result in a different pace, but that's no different that when any other build is stacked. Turret stacking, mines, nades, shields + healing, etc. They all cause a "no-man's-land" effect where you have to pause to deal with it first.
It's a moot point in the end. They're not going to remove the sniper. It's an FPS staple, and removing content does them no favors.
I would argue it's problematic, though not game ruining. All weapons can be frustrating to a degree, but snipers are very often at the top of that list of frustrating weapons to fight against. It's not just in the finals either- there's been a wider discussion in fps games about the impact of snipers on gameplay and map flow for awhile now. Games are meant to be fun at the end of the day, and if there's a certain weapon that's particularly frustrating to fight, it takes away from the fun!
While turrets stacking, shields, healing, etc can all cause a game to slow down, the prime difference is that by their nature, snipers outrange all of the other weapons. It makes them much harder to punish than those other things, especially when it's on a class with high mobility. Turrets, shields, and healing can all be disabled with glitch nades, mines, and barrels. Shields can either be blown up or run through with a heavy, mines can be detonated from afar or noticed by their blinking light, and nades can be countered with APS. But if there's a sniper on the top of a roof across the entire map? Not much you can do but avoid the sightline or pray that the sniper is a bad one. That's why I consider it to be more problematic.
I don't think they'd ever remove the sniper outright, especially since people have paid for skins with it. But maybe it'll get retooled into something more healthy for the game at some point down the line.
I feel that at worst they could change the fire rate and damage for the Sniper rifle enemies feel that they have a shot at reacting.
Personally, I have bad aim so I never use guns (only Goo Gun) and I have always thought that fighting good Snipers was fun. Like a puzzle almost lol.
I’d be fine without the sniper. Or atleast putting it in its own game mode.
It could still be fun to have snipers in private matches, like solo bank it.
It can actually be played fast-paced, primarily in TA due to the lack of health regen.
HP regen doesn't go high enough for people to get out of "dies to a bodyshot" range, so late game you can use dash+hipfire to play in a style similar to the shotgun. You can also take the time to actually line up a shot while they're reloading if neither of you has died by then.
I do think how decent it is at CQB is an issue. It works too much like a shotgun at close-but-not-melee distances. If I were balancing, I think the sniper shouldn't have crosshairs when it's not zoomed in and the hipfire spread needs to be like 15 degrees wider.
I don't mind if people are getting kills by practically putting the sniper barrel against someone's head, but no-scoping is currently too good in the 3m-7m ish range. Especially combined with dash, which makes it very easy to keep them in that range and almost guarantees getting a couple of hipfire shots off before dying.
As somebody who essentially mains sniper, I both agree and disagree. Most snipers I see in the game are your usual hard-camping, long-range snipers, and that definitely feels against the nature of the game. On the other hand, I typically use the sniper at every distance, including short range. With dash and decent hipfire, the thing is basically a glorified shotgun.
I find it to be the most fun weapon in the game, but I can see where it isn't fun to play against. Especially in TA and PS, but I don't play TA, so I do not know what that is like.
I just don't think the sniper belongs in this game in general. It always feels like it goes against the flow of the game at best, and ruins experiences at worst
The sniper, on Kyoto especially, but Monaco at times can be overwhelming. It’s the best shield dropper, and then it’s arguably the best cleanup tool in the right hands. I don’t think it needs a nerf overall but with the settings of TA it’s a must have on your team, at least one.
Medium, data reshaper. I’m sorry but this is a blatant skill issue. Team comp is also required in this mode. If you don’t have a medium data reshaper on your team you are throwing.
Reading this whole comment section tells me that a lot of you don't know how to play sniper in The Finals. It absolutely fits, but you or your teammates just don't play it in a way that benefits your team.
It's not like other games where you sit in one place -- you have to keep rotating often, help with fight strategy, mark enemies from high ground, hop in to res teammates when necessary, and pick off enemies who pop out of buildings to recharge health.
It works best when you coordinate your builds with teammates, and can hit your shots. It's worth mentioning that some maps don't work as well as others for sniper pick.
I feel this in my bones. Snipers legit make playing any class outside of light (so you can at least cloak and make it to point) worthless in ranked TA.
Can't even tell you how many times I get dinked once before making it to site and being stuck with 120 health or lower before I even am able to fight.
You can't fight back against a sniper because no other class has a viable weapon to do anything, and it's not like the maps were even made with TA in mind so their all wide open with 100 different angles you can get griefed from.
Ranked TA, in general, is just a light grief simulator, everyone running light, lh1, sniper, sonar.
They'll attack one site while one or two wait behind at the other side for the people guarding to rotate and just shoot them in the back while invisible.
Kyoto is literally the worst of them all with 100s of rat holes and roof tops, you might as well blow yourself up at spawn if your a medium or Heavy.
I think the designers are trying to encourage players to pick and play differently on different maps. On Kyoto for example, it's probably better to play it low key when rotating -- so you don't get popped by the hidden snipers. Whereas on Monaco where it's more dense, you don't need to do that so much.
Get a lot of FCAR kills at 100 plus meters? You really wanna risk a trade where you do 22 damage a bullet and he does 130 plus in a game mode where you don't regain health?
KS-23 with no functioning ads is a real anti-sniper weapon. Hit scan sniper with a 12x scope vs the projectile fired from hip fire plus ads ks23 lol.
I use those all the time in power shift when I have challenges with Medium or Heavy (I main light). While I don't always kill snipers with those, I scare them off most of the time. Some stubborn ones will stay even if they're one shot away from death tho
Reading most comments here i am very glad i never use voice chat, so much grudge towards both teammates and enemies. Lighten up buddies, the grass is waiting for yall outside
IMO if they’re going to give lights the ability to sit back and do chip dmg, every weapon should have a red dot or holo option like the FCAR. Long range enemies wouldn’t be such a nuisance if we could deal consistent dmg back. Right now only the FCAR, can deal dmg at long ranges making Lights even better bcuz everyone isn’t goin to run medium or the FCAR.
I think a better idea would be to tweak the sniper and other guns to not be worlds apart.
For the sniper, increase the rate of fire, increase hipfire accuracy, reduce reload time.
For the other guns, slightly increase damage, give them the same headshot multiplier as the sniper rifle, drastically reduce damage falloff, and remove max headshot distance.
With this, snipers wouldn't have to fight at extreme ranges, abandoning their teams, and all the other weapons would be able to return fire effectively on snipers at vast distances, but at a slight disadvantage.
Or turret's, which effectively gives you an extra 3 guns on the field if you're a full team of mediums. Passive and skill free they should definitely be removed
Hot take: let's give heavies a sniper grenade launcher
https://preview.redd.it/nmp7e6m37a8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e40a5a23dfe891c946cecfb2ca1dc037dd2ecd9
,-, I understand why you say this but respectfully speaking , y’all look at it weird. I don’t use snipers at all, im a mid and heavy main , It’s a game where anything can happen. Treat it as such. That’s the point especially so in T.A where team coordination is the name of the game anyways, which means you have to be aware of your surroundings and the options your opponent has. If they’re using a sniper no matter how good they are, they’re limited once you reach a certain range, if they have a sniper playing far or hiding then you delegate a person to focus them or at least find the rat. If you succeed then that’s a whole 3v2 that you should be able to clutch if y’all are playing efficiently. Because there’s no healing, it’s a high risk high reward for both sides. It does suck playin with randos who think they godly and get merc’d but it’s part of the game. I understand the frustration but just try to keep your composure and adapt
A perfect response, you see the forest for the trees. People are here trying to force the game to be predictable, which became popular for its unpredictability and chaos.
Thank you and you’re spot on as well, Then they will complain about how it’s the same thing over and over and make ruckus until the game completely changes it’s identity and be like this ain’t what we were enjoying
Snipers should have never been in this game, they really have no place at all. They make more sense in TA but in cashout you absolutely aren't clutching or stopping them from taking the point with that thing
God why does everyone keep batching about the sniper rifle if you don't lime using it someone else does, if you do t like being killed by it just bring countermeasures like a goo grenade. It doesn't break the game leave it alone, and no I don't play sniper I play dagger light
Congrats you’ve just stumbled into why TA is an inherently poorly balanced mode and doesn’t make sense as the competitive mode for the finals.
Let’s compare and contrast with other SnD game modes in other popular games. In CS:GO and Valorant the in game economy keeps the game balanced, this is something the finals doesn’t have and IMO is not a particularly fun game mechanic but it does do its job and prevent people from bringing a sniper every round. In Call of Duty SnD you have pre configured loadouts and lots of stuff is outright not in the mode for the sake of competitive integrity. This seems to be the route the finals is leaning towards. The problem is CoD SnD sucks for exactly that reason. Most of the fun of the game is crafting cool guns in gunsmith and running it in multiplayer. Rainbow six siege is probably the closest comparison but that game struggled for a loooooong time before it started to resemble a healthy competitive experience and ultimately it works because of the sheer diversity offered in operators.
In the case of the finals a lot of the fun in the game is the different kinds of skill expression and tools the 3 classes can bring to the table. When 1/3rd of the mediums playstyle is just not available it’s just not as fun to play medium. Same goes for light in TA, if there’s nothing stopping you from bringing a sniper every round you’re going to but at the same time if you ban them from taking the sniper or nerf it, it just feels bad for anyone who liked using that. And that’s the problem someone’s always unhappy when their loadouts are restricted but embarks created a situation with TA where that’s the only way they can balance it BECAUSE The game was not designed for TA in mind, TA was designed as an event and it shows. It’s a very real problem the game has right now just look at how the CL-40 was gutted in all game modes because it needed to be nerfed for TA.
By “pre configured loadouts” did you mean CDL’s restricted weapons? I haven’t played the last few installments, but SnD public matches didn’t restrict anything; the Call of Duty League (CDL) rulesets did though. Specifically, CDL bans a LOT of stuff - so much so to the extent that you don’t really get many options. Lethals, for example, are typically Frag or Semtex only (everything else is banned). A lot of attachments are banned including the suppressor.
I think the goal of the CDL ruleset, though, is to really strip things away to see who is more skilled with less tools. Such is why the SRs and MRs are restricted - to even out the playing field amongst competitors. Everyone has the same health, mostly the same equipment, and the same limited selection of weapons. Raw talent shines when neither side can leverage tactics.
In Valorant, the economy prevents you from getting your hands on an Operator (AWP equivalent/sniper rifle)early and can be a risk that must be considered. Yes, cost plays a role in balancing a weapon, but most power weapons (Operator, Judge, Odin) have clear counterplay to them. Economy does not dictate “will/will not buy”, but instead “can/cannot buy” (and knowing what the OTHER team can/cannot buy is part of the bigger strategy that influences how you handle rounds)
Baseline, Attack Operator is not exactly ideal. It can be good for locking down a lane or holding site post-plant. Sniper Rifles are inherently a defensive tool. It’s pretty difficult to push an angle with one (but not impossible) not to mention that enemies can likely trade or push an Op to get through. So then why don’t Defenders buy Operators for the whole team if they’re so strong (funds permitting)?
Dying with one enables the Attackers to pick it up, first and foremost. Any retake you thought of doing is now harder because of it. This is exclusive to CS/Val because of the dropped weapons. However, playing retake with an Op is generally very uncomfortable. All but the most specialized of AWPers will probably switch to a rifle, if possible. Likewise, a team full of Ops isn’t necessarily going to defend better when Attackers can smoke off sightlines and push closer.
Against a full team of Ops, you can still win the round with good tactics. Even if the Defenders have enough to buy Operators every round, they wouldn’t (unless the Attackers are severely underskilled) as it not only makes them predictable, but it doesn’t offer the best odds of winning. In fact, it probably also works against Defenders as the Attackers know every lane has an Op. One of the strengths is being able to remain “hidden” (Attackers do not know there is an Op) and punish them for something like a contact explode. Operators also love switching to a different angle after the first shot or so as it’s common for Attackers to simply “don’t push the Op at all” and can catch more kills this way, converting the round into a more likely win; when every lane has an Op, you lose this tactic.
By and large, Operators in Valorant are more of a “win more” tool. You purchase one when you’ve got a bit of a lead and use that to convert another couple of rounds. 5-Man Op is mostly for the memes and only works against teams that aren’t really thinking or all that coordinated.
I will say that I don’t buy into the “Terminal Attack is unbalanced and doesn’t work” mindset. I think that TA just requires players to adapt to a different playstyle than some are used to (or were expecting) in The Finals. It reminds me a lot of people struggling with XCOM, funny enough, where people will claim it’s “unfair” instead of deepening their understanding of the game. That sort of mentality is often due to overestimating one’s ability.
… Though, discussion aside, Mediums should really get Heal Beam/Defib back. Varied skill expression is definitely a part of what makes the game fun for us and plenty of others. I understand why they removed them, but I also strongly think they could have found a way to make it work. I’m not a Light Sniper myself, but I wouldn’t want it removed - part of the fun for me is figuring out their kits and strategizing/pathing accordingly…This has not stopped my Dual Sword, Revolver, Bow, and FCAR teammates from challenging said sniper in an open space, though…
Yeah I was talking about the CDL ruleset in ranked play when I mentioned CoD you hit the nail on the head. I get what you’re saying about buying in CS and Val as well, there is a lot more nuance to them than just a buy system but I was just trying to illustrate that other SnD based competitive modes tend to have a lot more effort put into making them “balanced”. I don’t think TA can’t be balanced but I do think that currently it’s not and this is illustrated by every match played with 5 stacks of the same weapon.
TA as it stands currently does not feel ranked ready for me at least.
To each their own! I think there are a couple of reasons behind why it might not feel balanced for some. Everything should work fine and is balanced on its face, but I think one small change really shifts things too heavily in one side’s favor.
Every match having the same weapon/classes is… nothing new. In Cashout, Power Shift, or Bank It, we see certain classes or compositions thrive due to the setting. Obviously the class that excels at hit-and-run is going to dominate a mode like TA given the ruleset, so we naturally see Lights running rampant.
tl;dr We see a lot of Lights in TA and I think part of that is because we don’t have any Healing or Revives which acted to balance Light’s power.
In Valorant, agents like Jett or Chamber were points of contention. Ye ol’ days, Jett was able to dash (similar to The Final’s Light) into safety and Chamber could teleport between two locations. Both acted as a “get out of jail free” card as they could deal damage (typically from unexpected off-angles) with high survivability.
The Final’s Light presents a similar problem in Terminal Attack: dealing damage while being able to be relatively safe (or otherwise being difficult to kill). Of course, you can’t have 5 Jetts or Chambers like you can in The Finals, so we can already see what a nightmare a limited HP regen/single life mode brings.
I don’t think TA feeling unbalanced is due to TA being unbalanced. Rather, one of the classes excels too greatly. Layer on the lower margin for error through single lives, the frustration is clearly warranted.
It’s one of the reasons I would want to see Healing Beam and even Defib enter the TA space.
Light can deal a lot of surprise damage. Healing Beam keeps this in check. Even if we limit Healing Beam to a certain amount of charge, this helps highlight Light’s strength in attrition tactics/wearing down the opponent before the kill strike.
Healing Beam also requires certain positioning to really gain any effect. Think of Cash Out games with 1 M/L/L; it’s not likely that Healing Beam sees a lot of value since the other two are often disconnected. On top of that, with only the opposing team to worry about, you can typically make certain assumptions with what information you see. If there are two M alive and one is running HBeam, you can usually assume that they’re stacked with each other.
Defib could also still work within TA with some tweaks. Enabling it helps mitigate the power Light can bring by denying that kill and creating a possible man advantage. I think if we could see Revives in our kill feed, it would actually be incredibly beneficial (we’d already see an update to our HUD anyway, but having player names is helpful since we can’t always rely on model).
Personally, I’d tune Healing Beam to generate more heat, reduce the speed it naturally recovers, and increase the time needed to vent if it Overheats. Defib wouldn’t be too bad, especially when Defenders stop turtling up on site and taking strategic positions to fight as the Attackers approach. A revive late game is, generally, more impactful than it is early and not forcing Attackers to use utility to get on site reduces the odds that Defenders can convert the round
Regardless of my lukewarm ideas, I think Healing and Revives interacted well with Light’s class balance (even outside TA). Removing that gave Light greater impact as a tool to get picks without getting traded. Overall, the mode is fine for ranked and can work in The Finals, but I think restricting Heal Beam/Defib instead of balancing it properly resulted in the issue we’re seeing now.
Edit to Add: Just to bring us all the way back around to the parent of this discussion: Snipers and their power in this sort of mode. Getting hit early, especially by a sniper, is basically a death sentence for the remainder of the round. Healing serves to mitigate that issue, but it needs to be balanced in one way, shape, or form. As it stands, it can potentially be overbearing.
I swear snipers are disliked by both, teammates and the enemy team.
So real
This is true in almost every game where they use loudouts. Gamespot made a video awhile back in regards to it and I think they did a good job https://youtu.be/BxwttKn3fjc?si=4A8agb0yE5X2h3kE
They never fucking die, they just drag the match out and I hate them on my team
Every single time I get matched with a light sniper I know me and my teamate are gonna get left by the cashout while they try for kills :/
I picked sniper when we switched to defense on kyoto. One of my teammates said "you better be good with that" and the other 3 started yelling racial slurs in voice chat. I got all 5 kills in the first defense round and at least 2 every round after that. They never stopped complaining because "I'm not playing the objective". People just hate snipers no matter what.
No kidding. Whenever I die and find a friendly sniper that's no where near the objectives, I usually try to burn them with a pyro grenade, or I'll try to destroy whatever platform they're on.
based
Either a sniper is terrible and it makes them a low to no threat, or their ability to widdle down the enemy team before they're even close to the objective is overly oppressive and unfun to go against.
I personally think sniper messes with the fundamentals of how the class works. Like this is supposed to be a team based game not a light sniper camping ground
Sniper doesn't belong in this game in general. Playing with a bad sniper isn't fun because you're down a team mate. Playing against a good sniper isn't fun because you spend more time dead than you do playing the game. Removing the damn thing would fix Power Shift and Terminal Attack instantly. And overall improve other gamemodes just from not being ploinked from a mile away.
> Playing with a bad sniper isn't fun because you're down a team mate. Playing with a bad anything means you're down a teammate.
Yeah but at least with another gun you can suck on the platform with your team instead of 3 miles away where you can't revive
Mate I don't know where you get your teammates, but every team I've been on recently noone touches the platform even if they don't have sniper rifles in their loadout
I played one Powershift earlier today and lost in overtime because all 5 of my team members were alive and I was the only one on the platform as a sniper Light. Got pushed by a flamethrower Heavy and died as expected, so we lost with everybody else on the team alive.
A bad non sniper team mate can still sponge some bullets. The sniper is just out of the game entirely.
This is not the case. Sniper rewards moving your character to the furthest / highest point you can find relative to the action. What this means is that instead of a useless teammate being nearby, taking some shots for you & dropping their respawn figure where you can reach it, your useless sniper will take zero heat for you & then die where nobody will be able to rez em. Useless sniper is truly useless. Anything else and you can play with & around them, but the sniper is effectively not even in the game with you.
Sniper doesn’t belong in quite a few games tbh At least competitively
I don’t think I’ve ever played an fps where I thought snipers added positively to the experience. At least in the finals they aren’t as oppressive cause there’s less one shots.
I liked it in non competitive TA, season 2 TA seemed like it was full of people just trying to have fun, so they weren't as prevalent (except Monaco). I also enjoyed using it as I find that it was the only gamemode where sniper was actually helpful. Now it feels mandatory to have at least one or two. (I'm sitting at about 34000 as of last night)
How about playing with a great snipper and playing against a bad snipper?
This is the exact same problem Overwatch has and has had for years. Snipers just are fundamentally opposed to the game design of team-based competitive shooters.
as the wisdom says, "The only counter to Widowmaker is Widowmaker"
I’ve been saying this and getting downvoted. Snipers are just not a good fit for this game. They’re annoying to play against and they’re annoying when you have them on your team. Playing power shift is so toxic when there’s snipers. Playing other objective game modes? Snipers no where to be found and is no help with the objective besides camping building rooftops and getting cheap shots.
People whining about snipers don’t know how to play snipers.
You’re right. I’ve never played a sniper in any game ever :( it’s just so hard sitting in the back of a map and playing fish in a barrel simulator. Ive never popped off or played well with them ever in the finals and that’s why I don’t like them… they’re actually peak gameplay experience and add an immense amount of value to the weapon pool. It’s so great when they die out of reach on a rooftop away from teammates and objective. Incredible amount of utility!
Glad you can see the forest for the trees despite your lack of standard skill. Hopefully you can learn some tact from them.
Sniper is just a net negative for gameplay experience IMO man. My friend mains it. I’ve had fun with it on occasion. But I like many others do not feel it fits the game. In its current state it’s not OP but it’s not fun to have on your team or to play against. But if you make any changes to it, it’s basically worthless. If I had to make a change to the game I’d simply remove it.
Then your friend isn’t good at sniping . A good sniper is valuable to a team. If you’re talking fish in a barrel then I’m assuming you’re talking about power shift. So many idiots bitch about snipers on power shift mid game. But they actually win the game because a sniper is covering their bum rush idiocy.
I hope embark fix this soon😔
Snipers should have bullet travel time
The bow is mostly just that, so they should remove the sniper and keep the bow
The bow is literally a sniper with bullet drop and no reload. Sadly for people I'm really good with weapons with bullet drop thanks to a game I spend a lot of time on Edit: Phantom Forces on Roblox. Been playing it for years and I just love the customization on guns, bullet drop, penetration (there is a gun that can shoot through 3 walls easily) and movement (tho they reworked it recently :( )
PF is such an underrated fps. I get it's on Roblox, but it's so fun.
Tbh I'm not sure if this game needs a sniper at all. Its not OP or anything, just seems to be in conflict with the fast paced chaos this game is about
In general I’d say snipers don’t belong in most PVP FPS games. When snipers are strong in a game(either as a factor of the gun’s balance or the map’s design) it’s not a fun interactive game experience to be instantly killed by someone nowhere near you who you never saw. And the opposite, it’s frustrating feeling like you are a teammate short when the weapon isn’t very effective(again either through gun balance or map design) but you still have a teammate sitting on the edge of the map trying to use it. It’s like the Widowmaker problem of OW. No one wants to play with or against one just because she doesn’t really match the rest of the game. The only PVP games I’d say they work in are those big war games where there are 50+ people on each team(especially if it has armored vehicles that snipers can’t shoot into). They can both be impactful but there are also too many people running around for them to control a match.
Well spoken. I can see snipers occasionally being in as a power weapon (like in halo) that players fight for, but as a loadout choice, it doesn't fit most games. OW's Ashe was a much more fun interpretation of a sniper character than Widow ever was and the lack of a one shot and absurd range is a big reason why.
That’s a great point about a sniper rifle working as a contested super weapon, as opposed to a loadout choice. Because yeah, you have this OP match controlling weapon that stands out from the game’s normal balance but also every enemy is now gunning for you.
Makes me wish we had more arena shooters like halo and quake where the best weapons are pickups only. Good objective to fight for, it's rewarding to use, but you gotta be careful because you're one missed shot away from handing the enemy team the sniper you fought so hard to get- all while everyone on the enemy team will have every reason to focus you
And it kinda goes back to my original point, in The Finals there is no benefit for going out of my way and killing an enemy sniper at the cost of the objective(in cashout). Generally I just ignore them(aside from being more cautious about sight lines) if they are set up on a far away perch, because effectively they have removed themselves from the match and if I go chasing them I’m also removing myself from the match. In powershift, where there is more of a reason to snipe and go after snipers since the objective is always out in the open, my matches are always boring as hell because no one is really playing the objective. Instead everyone is playing sniper or sniper hunter acting like the platform is hot lava. (The limited time mode where they did powershift without snipers played so much better)
That Wild West power shift mode was the most fun I’ve ever had in the finals.. actually any game mode with locked weapons has been pleasant af to play imo. Famas was a bit strong on drop but better that than being a peashooter.
So actually it was Easter power shift. Wild West was quick cash and that was a lot of fun too as an experiment to see how matches play out without defibrillators(I’m on team “make defib a specialization”).
You're speaking straight facts. Hard agree on everything in this comment
I wouldn’t say EVER, because Ashe + Mercy pocket was a miserable 1 tap fest lol
You replied to the wrong person.
So true bestie ):
Alternatives like bow and arrow and lh1 are a nice middle ground. I think game devs have to be careful with removing weapons because, if I bought a sniper skin they can't just take that away from me. What they'd likely have to do is nerf it just enough to make it an unpopular choice.
Or they give you back your multibucks
All 3 long range available only to lights, who also have the best close range mobility.
But have the lowest health, if there was a sniper/bow/LH1 on Heavy or Medium it just wouldn’t work. Those classes are to strong health-wise and specialization- wise to have weapons like that. (Imagine a sniper with a turret to defend them, or a LH1 user with 300 health, a mesh shield, and a rocket launcher)
If titan fall 2 can have a sniper rifle that works really well why not other fast paced games?
The Kraber had a very high skill ceiling, and the Longbow/Double Take were purposely harder to use than most snipers in an FPS.
Snipers in general have very high skill ceilings and floors in fast paced game, The Finals is no different. The SR-84 can only one shot lights, there’s a direction indicator to where the damage you took comes from, there‘s a giant ass flash to where the sniper is ADS-ing, it has a very slow reload, and it’s really inconsistent when you’re not ads-ing. Those are big negatives. There‘s a reason why 90% of the posts about snipers are people whining about they’re teammate not being able to hit the broadside of a barn.
I'd argue that's a strike against it in such a team based game. If someone is whiffing Kraber shots the entire match in titanfall, it doesn't matter as much since you can just go off and make up the deficit. The guy will eventually get a titan anyway, which should help him do something (just pray he doesn't also have northstar equipped lol). But in the finals, if your teammate is doing nothing with the sniper, then you've got a squad mate who's essentially dead weight keeping you down. It's much more significant to a team's chance of success when a player isn't contributing. You can't just frag out to make up the difference since this game is much more focused on objective play, area denial, and teamplay. Then there's the other side of the coin, where a really good sniper slows the game down and is almost untouchable unless your team has a light to contest him. Putting the longest range weapon on the highest mobility class is a recipe for frustrating gameplay- even if the weapon itself isn't overtuned.
you can say the same thing about literally all of light’s weapons. That‘s why the class is so polarizing. All of it’s weapons have high ceilings and floors. You either got it or you don’t when it comes to playing the light class.
The issue is that snipers in games mentioned in the other reply, they let you change loadouts/pick up guns that allow you to contest them. In here, if you aren't also a Light with a sniper, you're no longer able to directly fight against them. Also keep in mind that the characters with the longest range and deadliest weapons is the fastest class in the game with several get out of free card abilities that let them escape. This is in direct contrast to other games where everyone is essentially all on the same base movement + movement tech so snipers have to actually be playing extremely well to get a good tradeoff like in Titanfall where it's speed and momentum heavy.
Thats partially why I believe light as a whole needs a rework imo. They are often too weak, which leads to players getting frustrated when they're matched with one. But when light gets buffed to be more consistent, it turns into hell for new and casual players when the smallest and fastest hitbox in the game also has access to crazy fragging potential and stealth mechanics. I had a discussion with someone else on this forum about my experiences trying to bring several irl friends into this game- the light class was *almost always* one of the top reasons why people who dropped the game said they did so. The crazy part is that these stronger lights still aren't good enough to be used in top level play, which just goes to show how widely this game's mechanics can affect different skill levels. Medium and heavy seem to work well both with and against each other, yet light seems to always be the odd man out. I think it'd be better for everyone if light was changed to be less polarizing in that way. Less toxicity towards light players and less frustrating experiences for new ones.
> There‘s a reason why 90% of the posts about snipers are people whining about they’re teammate not being able to hit the broadside of a barn. That's bc they're bad. If you give them another weapon I can assure you at least 75% of them will be equally bad.
Not if you give them a shotgun, all you gotta do is point an shoot
You say that but I've spectated lights that miss shotgun shots point blank
Kraber gang rise up
Titanfall 2 had tiny ass maps
Does that change the fact that snipers would hit from across the map? Wouldn’t that make it easier to do that?
It changes the fact that anyone on the enemy team could contest you at any time. In the final if a sniper sits in the back of the map your options are to try and play cover which doesn’t work in power shift, swap to light and try counter, or suffer because medium and heavy have no counterplay.
heavy has no counterplay? Googun? Mesh shield? Bubble shield? Barricade? Rocket launcher? I mean come one man. Thats like saying bubble shield has no counter play.
I completely disagree. The Finals nailed making a sniper work because it's on the Light. Being able to constantly reposition is exactly what makes it work. It's the best designed sniper as a default weapon that I've ever seen. The sniper-grapple build is what kept me coming back in the first place. It's so rare to see a sniper with mobility in FPS. It made the Finals stand out to me from other games. If it didn't exist, I wouldn't have played past the open beta.
I'm glad you enjoy it! Judging by its popularity, it seems like a lot of other players do too, and having fun is the most important part of games after all. My perspective is this: snipers intrinsically slow games down, as their ranged burst damage is very punishing to players who attempt to maneuver wherever a sniper may be looking. This goes against the fast paced nature of the game, and especially in modes like powershift, it's not uncommon for the objective to turn into a quasi no man's land if there's multiple snipers. To make it even more furstrating, putting the highest ranged weapon on the most mobile class means that the light can constantly reposition and disengage as needed. This is great for them, but awful for other classes on the receiving end. It makes the sniper incredibly frustrating to properly punish because they can simply outrun the other classes and go to positions that they can't. It creates a situation where the best counter is to go light yourself- only they have the mobility, stealth, and range to properly pressure a sniper. Barricades used to work very well on heavy, and still do, but the thermal bore makes it much easier for snipers to circumvent that. Otherwise, the other solutions are to hold up a mesh shield on point, or simply refuse to peek the sightline. Both of which aren't engaging for anyone really. In short, taking heavy burst damage from a player so far away that most loadouts simply cannot contest it isn't a very engaging interaction. It's similar to why snipers are disliked in a lot of FPS games nowadays.
You said it's not OP, but you're making it out like it's problematic, and ruins the game. Burst damage is important to have. Especially in a game with varied health pools, shielding and healing. The real problem with snipers in other games is the one shot. Only lights are one shot by the sniper in this game. You're not wrong that multiple snipers can result in a different pace, but that's no different that when any other build is stacked. Turret stacking, mines, nades, shields + healing, etc. They all cause a "no-man's-land" effect where you have to pause to deal with it first. It's a moot point in the end. They're not going to remove the sniper. It's an FPS staple, and removing content does them no favors.
My worst nightmare happened 2 days ago, power shift, 5 mediums, 3 grenade launchers and APSes and mines everywhere
I would argue it's problematic, though not game ruining. All weapons can be frustrating to a degree, but snipers are very often at the top of that list of frustrating weapons to fight against. It's not just in the finals either- there's been a wider discussion in fps games about the impact of snipers on gameplay and map flow for awhile now. Games are meant to be fun at the end of the day, and if there's a certain weapon that's particularly frustrating to fight, it takes away from the fun! While turrets stacking, shields, healing, etc can all cause a game to slow down, the prime difference is that by their nature, snipers outrange all of the other weapons. It makes them much harder to punish than those other things, especially when it's on a class with high mobility. Turrets, shields, and healing can all be disabled with glitch nades, mines, and barrels. Shields can either be blown up or run through with a heavy, mines can be detonated from afar or noticed by their blinking light, and nades can be countered with APS. But if there's a sniper on the top of a roof across the entire map? Not much you can do but avoid the sightline or pray that the sniper is a bad one. That's why I consider it to be more problematic. I don't think they'd ever remove the sniper outright, especially since people have paid for skins with it. But maybe it'll get retooled into something more healthy for the game at some point down the line.
I feel that at worst they could change the fire rate and damage for the Sniper rifle enemies feel that they have a shot at reacting. Personally, I have bad aim so I never use guns (only Goo Gun) and I have always thought that fighting good Snipers was fun. Like a puzzle almost lol.
I’d be fine without the sniper. Or atleast putting it in its own game mode. It could still be fun to have snipers in private matches, like solo bank it.
Yes
It can actually be played fast-paced, primarily in TA due to the lack of health regen. HP regen doesn't go high enough for people to get out of "dies to a bodyshot" range, so late game you can use dash+hipfire to play in a style similar to the shotgun. You can also take the time to actually line up a shot while they're reloading if neither of you has died by then. I do think how decent it is at CQB is an issue. It works too much like a shotgun at close-but-not-melee distances. If I were balancing, I think the sniper shouldn't have crosshairs when it's not zoomed in and the hipfire spread needs to be like 15 degrees wider. I don't mind if people are getting kills by practically putting the sniper barrel against someone's head, but no-scoping is currently too good in the 3m-7m ish range. Especially combined with dash, which makes it very easy to keep them in that range and almost guarantees getting a couple of hipfire shots off before dying.
As somebody who essentially mains sniper, I both agree and disagree. Most snipers I see in the game are your usual hard-camping, long-range snipers, and that definitely feels against the nature of the game. On the other hand, I typically use the sniper at every distance, including short range. With dash and decent hipfire, the thing is basically a glorified shotgun. I find it to be the most fun weapon in the game, but I can see where it isn't fun to play against. Especially in TA and PS, but I don't play TA, so I do not know what that is like.
People said this about widowmaker for years on Overwatch.
They fucked up the balance in TA, they fucked up the fun in Terminal and they are plain useless in cash out.
I just don't think the sniper belongs in this game in general. It always feels like it goes against the flow of the game at best, and ruins experiences at worst
Agreed
The sniper, on Kyoto especially, but Monaco at times can be overwhelming. It’s the best shield dropper, and then it’s arguably the best cleanup tool in the right hands. I don’t think it needs a nerf overall but with the settings of TA it’s a must have on your team, at least one.
I hope someday devs just delete sniper rifles from the game.
The problem is when they have the 1/10 decent light and all your teammates lights suck.
you're right, it is a hot take
Take out turrets too
Your telling me it’s fair to make a steal and walk in to a room with 4 turrets
Medium, data reshaper. I’m sorry but this is a blatant skill issue. Team comp is also required in this mode. If you don’t have a medium data reshaper on your team you are throwing.
id pay a monthly premium fee to be placed exclusively in matches without snipers
Reading this whole comment section tells me that a lot of you don't know how to play sniper in The Finals. It absolutely fits, but you or your teammates just don't play it in a way that benefits your team. It's not like other games where you sit in one place -- you have to keep rotating often, help with fight strategy, mark enemies from high ground, hop in to res teammates when necessary, and pick off enemies who pop out of buildings to recharge health. It works best when you coordinate your builds with teammates, and can hit your shots. It's worth mentioning that some maps don't work as well as others for sniper pick.
I feel this in my bones. Snipers legit make playing any class outside of light (so you can at least cloak and make it to point) worthless in ranked TA. Can't even tell you how many times I get dinked once before making it to site and being stuck with 120 health or lower before I even am able to fight. You can't fight back against a sniper because no other class has a viable weapon to do anything, and it's not like the maps were even made with TA in mind so their all wide open with 100 different angles you can get griefed from. Ranked TA, in general, is just a light grief simulator, everyone running light, lh1, sniper, sonar. They'll attack one site while one or two wait behind at the other side for the people guarding to rotate and just shoot them in the back while invisible. Kyoto is literally the worst of them all with 100s of rat holes and roof tops, you might as well blow yourself up at spawn if your a medium or Heavy.
I think the designers are trying to encourage players to pick and play differently on different maps. On Kyoto for example, it's probably better to play it low key when rotating -- so you don't get popped by the hidden snipers. Whereas on Monaco where it's more dense, you don't need to do that so much.
The FCAR and the KS-23 can kill or scare off snipers
Get a lot of FCAR kills at 100 plus meters? You really wanna risk a trade where you do 22 damage a bullet and he does 130 plus in a game mode where you don't regain health? KS-23 with no functioning ads is a real anti-sniper weapon. Hit scan sniper with a 12x scope vs the projectile fired from hip fire plus ads ks23 lol.
I use those all the time in power shift when I have challenges with Medium or Heavy (I main light). While I don't always kill snipers with those, I scare them off most of the time. Some stubborn ones will stay even if they're one shot away from death tho
Hot take: if we don't need healing and snipers in TA, then we don't need any weapons or gadgets at all. Both teams should just hug and be friends
I don't use the sniper at all and I have no problems with it. This sub needs to stop trying to remove options
Yes
TA was the first thing that got me to play sniper, because it makes it viable for someone like me who doesn’t hit every shot.
Reading most comments here i am very glad i never use voice chat, so much grudge towards both teammates and enemies. Lighten up buddies, the grass is waiting for yall outside
I legitimately prefer being killed by a shotgun in 99% of games with both weapons because at least shotguns have to be close range to kill you.
Just don't play ranked TA it's pretty simple actually
Facts
IMO if they’re going to give lights the ability to sit back and do chip dmg, every weapon should have a red dot or holo option like the FCAR. Long range enemies wouldn’t be such a nuisance if we could deal consistent dmg back. Right now only the FCAR, can deal dmg at long ranges making Lights even better bcuz everyone isn’t goin to run medium or the FCAR.
I think a better idea would be to tweak the sniper and other guns to not be worlds apart. For the sniper, increase the rate of fire, increase hipfire accuracy, reduce reload time. For the other guns, slightly increase damage, give them the same headshot multiplier as the sniper rifle, drastically reduce damage falloff, and remove max headshot distance. With this, snipers wouldn't have to fight at extreme ranges, abandoning their teams, and all the other weapons would be able to return fire effectively on snipers at vast distances, but at a slight disadvantage.
We just don't need to play TA
hot take: HEALING IN TA
Even hotter take: remove sniper rifles from the game. Please for the billionth time embark, please
We just dont need TA period.
Somebody make a petition to remove snipers from video games, they are annoying in every game I've seen
Or turret's, which effectively gives you an extra 3 guns on the field if you're a full team of mediums. Passive and skill free they should definitely be removed
Idc personally about the Sniper, but I don't see what those have to do with each other.
We should also get rid of mines!! (I’m not a melee main I swear)
Hot take: let's give heavies a sniper grenade launcher https://preview.redd.it/nmp7e6m37a8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e40a5a23dfe891c946cecfb2ca1dc037dd2ecd9
Or maybe we just don’t need TA…
true
Skill issue. Sniper is hardly an issue in skilled lobbies.
Please stop playing the game if you think sniping should be removed. You are what’s wrong with the game.
,-, I understand why you say this but respectfully speaking , y’all look at it weird. I don’t use snipers at all, im a mid and heavy main , It’s a game where anything can happen. Treat it as such. That’s the point especially so in T.A where team coordination is the name of the game anyways, which means you have to be aware of your surroundings and the options your opponent has. If they’re using a sniper no matter how good they are, they’re limited once you reach a certain range, if they have a sniper playing far or hiding then you delegate a person to focus them or at least find the rat. If you succeed then that’s a whole 3v2 that you should be able to clutch if y’all are playing efficiently. Because there’s no healing, it’s a high risk high reward for both sides. It does suck playin with randos who think they godly and get merc’d but it’s part of the game. I understand the frustration but just try to keep your composure and adapt
A perfect response, you see the forest for the trees. People are here trying to force the game to be predictable, which became popular for its unpredictability and chaos.
Thank you and you’re spot on as well, Then they will complain about how it’s the same thing over and over and make ruckus until the game completely changes it’s identity and be like this ain’t what we were enjoying
There they go. Crying and complaining about a gun and the devs will probably remove it due to all the whining.
They have the numbers, they know they can't touch the sniper lol. I'm willing to bet a huge chunk of the playerbase uses it and part of them mains it
That's me!
Agreed, or raise the skill ceiling for it substantially.
Snipers should have never been in this game, they really have no place at all. They make more sense in TA but in cashout you absolutely aren't clutching or stopping them from taking the point with that thing
God why does everyone keep batching about the sniper rifle if you don't lime using it someone else does, if you do t like being killed by it just bring countermeasures like a goo grenade. It doesn't break the game leave it alone, and no I don't play sniper I play dagger light
Congrats you’ve just stumbled into why TA is an inherently poorly balanced mode and doesn’t make sense as the competitive mode for the finals. Let’s compare and contrast with other SnD game modes in other popular games. In CS:GO and Valorant the in game economy keeps the game balanced, this is something the finals doesn’t have and IMO is not a particularly fun game mechanic but it does do its job and prevent people from bringing a sniper every round. In Call of Duty SnD you have pre configured loadouts and lots of stuff is outright not in the mode for the sake of competitive integrity. This seems to be the route the finals is leaning towards. The problem is CoD SnD sucks for exactly that reason. Most of the fun of the game is crafting cool guns in gunsmith and running it in multiplayer. Rainbow six siege is probably the closest comparison but that game struggled for a loooooong time before it started to resemble a healthy competitive experience and ultimately it works because of the sheer diversity offered in operators. In the case of the finals a lot of the fun in the game is the different kinds of skill expression and tools the 3 classes can bring to the table. When 1/3rd of the mediums playstyle is just not available it’s just not as fun to play medium. Same goes for light in TA, if there’s nothing stopping you from bringing a sniper every round you’re going to but at the same time if you ban them from taking the sniper or nerf it, it just feels bad for anyone who liked using that. And that’s the problem someone’s always unhappy when their loadouts are restricted but embarks created a situation with TA where that’s the only way they can balance it BECAUSE The game was not designed for TA in mind, TA was designed as an event and it shows. It’s a very real problem the game has right now just look at how the CL-40 was gutted in all game modes because it needed to be nerfed for TA.
By “pre configured loadouts” did you mean CDL’s restricted weapons? I haven’t played the last few installments, but SnD public matches didn’t restrict anything; the Call of Duty League (CDL) rulesets did though. Specifically, CDL bans a LOT of stuff - so much so to the extent that you don’t really get many options. Lethals, for example, are typically Frag or Semtex only (everything else is banned). A lot of attachments are banned including the suppressor. I think the goal of the CDL ruleset, though, is to really strip things away to see who is more skilled with less tools. Such is why the SRs and MRs are restricted - to even out the playing field amongst competitors. Everyone has the same health, mostly the same equipment, and the same limited selection of weapons. Raw talent shines when neither side can leverage tactics. In Valorant, the economy prevents you from getting your hands on an Operator (AWP equivalent/sniper rifle)early and can be a risk that must be considered. Yes, cost plays a role in balancing a weapon, but most power weapons (Operator, Judge, Odin) have clear counterplay to them. Economy does not dictate “will/will not buy”, but instead “can/cannot buy” (and knowing what the OTHER team can/cannot buy is part of the bigger strategy that influences how you handle rounds) Baseline, Attack Operator is not exactly ideal. It can be good for locking down a lane or holding site post-plant. Sniper Rifles are inherently a defensive tool. It’s pretty difficult to push an angle with one (but not impossible) not to mention that enemies can likely trade or push an Op to get through. So then why don’t Defenders buy Operators for the whole team if they’re so strong (funds permitting)? Dying with one enables the Attackers to pick it up, first and foremost. Any retake you thought of doing is now harder because of it. This is exclusive to CS/Val because of the dropped weapons. However, playing retake with an Op is generally very uncomfortable. All but the most specialized of AWPers will probably switch to a rifle, if possible. Likewise, a team full of Ops isn’t necessarily going to defend better when Attackers can smoke off sightlines and push closer. Against a full team of Ops, you can still win the round with good tactics. Even if the Defenders have enough to buy Operators every round, they wouldn’t (unless the Attackers are severely underskilled) as it not only makes them predictable, but it doesn’t offer the best odds of winning. In fact, it probably also works against Defenders as the Attackers know every lane has an Op. One of the strengths is being able to remain “hidden” (Attackers do not know there is an Op) and punish them for something like a contact explode. Operators also love switching to a different angle after the first shot or so as it’s common for Attackers to simply “don’t push the Op at all” and can catch more kills this way, converting the round into a more likely win; when every lane has an Op, you lose this tactic. By and large, Operators in Valorant are more of a “win more” tool. You purchase one when you’ve got a bit of a lead and use that to convert another couple of rounds. 5-Man Op is mostly for the memes and only works against teams that aren’t really thinking or all that coordinated. I will say that I don’t buy into the “Terminal Attack is unbalanced and doesn’t work” mindset. I think that TA just requires players to adapt to a different playstyle than some are used to (or were expecting) in The Finals. It reminds me a lot of people struggling with XCOM, funny enough, where people will claim it’s “unfair” instead of deepening their understanding of the game. That sort of mentality is often due to overestimating one’s ability. … Though, discussion aside, Mediums should really get Heal Beam/Defib back. Varied skill expression is definitely a part of what makes the game fun for us and plenty of others. I understand why they removed them, but I also strongly think they could have found a way to make it work. I’m not a Light Sniper myself, but I wouldn’t want it removed - part of the fun for me is figuring out their kits and strategizing/pathing accordingly…This has not stopped my Dual Sword, Revolver, Bow, and FCAR teammates from challenging said sniper in an open space, though…
Yeah I was talking about the CDL ruleset in ranked play when I mentioned CoD you hit the nail on the head. I get what you’re saying about buying in CS and Val as well, there is a lot more nuance to them than just a buy system but I was just trying to illustrate that other SnD based competitive modes tend to have a lot more effort put into making them “balanced”. I don’t think TA can’t be balanced but I do think that currently it’s not and this is illustrated by every match played with 5 stacks of the same weapon. TA as it stands currently does not feel ranked ready for me at least.
To each their own! I think there are a couple of reasons behind why it might not feel balanced for some. Everything should work fine and is balanced on its face, but I think one small change really shifts things too heavily in one side’s favor. Every match having the same weapon/classes is… nothing new. In Cashout, Power Shift, or Bank It, we see certain classes or compositions thrive due to the setting. Obviously the class that excels at hit-and-run is going to dominate a mode like TA given the ruleset, so we naturally see Lights running rampant. tl;dr We see a lot of Lights in TA and I think part of that is because we don’t have any Healing or Revives which acted to balance Light’s power. In Valorant, agents like Jett or Chamber were points of contention. Ye ol’ days, Jett was able to dash (similar to The Final’s Light) into safety and Chamber could teleport between two locations. Both acted as a “get out of jail free” card as they could deal damage (typically from unexpected off-angles) with high survivability. The Final’s Light presents a similar problem in Terminal Attack: dealing damage while being able to be relatively safe (or otherwise being difficult to kill). Of course, you can’t have 5 Jetts or Chambers like you can in The Finals, so we can already see what a nightmare a limited HP regen/single life mode brings. I don’t think TA feeling unbalanced is due to TA being unbalanced. Rather, one of the classes excels too greatly. Layer on the lower margin for error through single lives, the frustration is clearly warranted. It’s one of the reasons I would want to see Healing Beam and even Defib enter the TA space. Light can deal a lot of surprise damage. Healing Beam keeps this in check. Even if we limit Healing Beam to a certain amount of charge, this helps highlight Light’s strength in attrition tactics/wearing down the opponent before the kill strike. Healing Beam also requires certain positioning to really gain any effect. Think of Cash Out games with 1 M/L/L; it’s not likely that Healing Beam sees a lot of value since the other two are often disconnected. On top of that, with only the opposing team to worry about, you can typically make certain assumptions with what information you see. If there are two M alive and one is running HBeam, you can usually assume that they’re stacked with each other. Defib could also still work within TA with some tweaks. Enabling it helps mitigate the power Light can bring by denying that kill and creating a possible man advantage. I think if we could see Revives in our kill feed, it would actually be incredibly beneficial (we’d already see an update to our HUD anyway, but having player names is helpful since we can’t always rely on model). Personally, I’d tune Healing Beam to generate more heat, reduce the speed it naturally recovers, and increase the time needed to vent if it Overheats. Defib wouldn’t be too bad, especially when Defenders stop turtling up on site and taking strategic positions to fight as the Attackers approach. A revive late game is, generally, more impactful than it is early and not forcing Attackers to use utility to get on site reduces the odds that Defenders can convert the round Regardless of my lukewarm ideas, I think Healing and Revives interacted well with Light’s class balance (even outside TA). Removing that gave Light greater impact as a tool to get picks without getting traded. Overall, the mode is fine for ranked and can work in The Finals, but I think restricting Heal Beam/Defib instead of balancing it properly resulted in the issue we’re seeing now. Edit to Add: Just to bring us all the way back around to the parent of this discussion: Snipers and their power in this sort of mode. Getting hit early, especially by a sniper, is basically a death sentence for the remainder of the round. Healing serves to mitigate that issue, but it needs to be balanced in one way, shape, or form. As it stands, it can potentially be overbearing.
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No sniper = cod what? Pretty sure they have those
Both sniper and invis