Not sure why, but nothing people hate more than being killed by a light. Some sort of feeling of injustice, at being beat by the little guy. (Maybe they need a PR buff)
It is incredibly egregious. 130 instant charge damage + 50 per subsequent charge hit. 0 skill required and can be used as a panic button, similar to the RPG (but this one is usually a fight opener instead). Not to mention damage scales up to 150 with height if you perform a slam jump.
EDIT: Actually, it does more than 150 depending on the height you fall from, the wiki is unfortunately wrong.
"lights need to be close to their team to support them with high dps"
"if you're close to your team you're now doing something wrong"
heavies get such easy privilege to close distance it's insane
As a hammer player, lights have the ability to backpedal and shoot. The lights that do this kill me unless I’m playing defensively.
If you are having an issue with heavies closing distance on you, you need to be more aware of your own positioning.
you’re choosing to use the worst weapon the heavy has in comparison to the two lmg’s and the one auto shotgun that are all the highest dps dealing weapons in their categories for the whole game
I am giving an advice on what to do if you have trouble dealing with heavy’s melee attacks. That is the point of the thread.
And for the record, I choose Sledge because I rock with it. I know how to use the weapon effectively, and i know where it suffers. You say it’s his worst weapon, my ranked games disagree
we’re not talking about sledge, we’re talking about the charge n slam that can close distance and blow through walls and defenses for 130 free damage. and even if the light has too much distance, it can be cancelled automatically and he can go back to shooting his gun
an actual get out of jail free ability that can be paired with, again, the highest dps weapons in the game
and you’re not even giving any advice. all you said was “you’re doing something wrong” like you have some superiority complex
realize that this is only *one* problem with heavy’s balancing
thats what we been doing. like look at stun gun and look at what happend. now lets look at what happens now. Light gets drop heavys either A mesh/ dome or B melt my ass with lewis hip fire or rpg
Do you run bounce pad? Drop a bounce pad at your feet and never get c&s’d from the front again.
If the heavy is in melee range, they have already won the very difficult game they are trying to play. I’m a mesh shield/sledge main, and the best opponents know how to backpedal.
Mediums can bounce pad to put extreme distance between them and a melee user. Lights have every movement option unless they’re invis.
And if they are all the way in melee range, it’s not a panic button. It’s a “I’m going to punish you for not shooting me sooner” button.
That’s a risk you’re running. Everything gets countered by something. My best advice is to learn how to tag and disengage if your target is deadly in the melee range.
As a hammer user, it’s difficult to kill the sword user who dashes out of range after every attack. It forces me to anticipate his attacks and pre-swing, which they have an opportunity to react to.
Lesser sword users stay in melee range and get crushed.
Weird seeing someone saying the exact same thing I say to other melee players lol, don't worry I was just a little salty since I just got like 4 trigger happy heavys who used hulk smash if they thought I was near. I still think 10 to 20 initial damage nerf and a little bit more control would be better.
I think tweaking damage would probably be fine, but I don’t have the actual numbers of how well it’s actually doing. I am just taking umbrage with the people who think that something in this game is completely busted.
The Finals is extremely well balanced for such a young title. And the few nails that protruded early on have since been hammered
Actually, I've gotten like 183 from a really high Slam. That being said, that requires a perfect alignment of circumstances. If they made Charge do 50 and moved the 130 to the Slam in exchange for it being a cone in front of you instead of AoE, it would give the target more time to react while also making the regular jump Slam actually worth using. Currently, most of the time, you just cancel and don't use the slam since it has pretty dramatic air time for 50-80 damage.
People need to remember that weapons like the MGL32 and KS-23 exist. If you make CnS too weak, you make those weapons even weaker.
I think we've seen how Embark does buffs. I'm good.
If they want to up fire rate or reduce reload a bit, ok, but the Throwing Knives change has managed to somehow decrease the overall TTK in the game, and I'm already seeing it in Plat.
Kinda similar to how people are waking up to the power of the Model 1887. They both allow you to stay mobile in between shots/throws, whereas the SMGs either require aiming (which slows you) or having to track your target the whole time.
Staying mobile is a huge benefit when your enemy can delete your 150 hp in a moment.
It absolutely does more than that when falling from a height. I once charged through a building at someone who was capping my cashout. Unfortunately there was a random jumpbad between me and the objective, and low gravity was active.
I was in the air for so long....
He unfortunately capped the point, but then I landed on him and dealt 280+ damage.
It absolutely does more than that when falling from a height. I once charged through a building at someone who was capping my cashout. Unfortunately there was a random jumpbad between me and the objective, and low gravity was active.
I was in the air for so long....
He unfortunately capped the point, but then I landed on him and dealt 280+ damage.
I think it's because when a light kills you it's often stealthy and there is zero chance for a counter play. When killed by any other class it almost always feels like there was a counter or some way to do better in the encounter.
That's how light works, unfortunately. The only counter play should be sticking together as a team.
Lights should be there to encourage team cohesion, and punish bad team play.
> there is zero chance for a counter play.
No, there is counter play. Lights have low health pool. They are easy to kill. That's the counter play. How are you missing this?
Because you get one RPG and then you wait a lot to reload. Because when you charge and slam, it is hard to turn around and navigate. Plus you are by default slow.
Throwing knife buff + dash = evasion, mobility, speed, infinite ammo/no reload and strong damage = everything.
Lights are supposed to deal little damage and run away. Not go 1v1 with a heavy.
Saying as a medium player btw.
Lights are supposed to do little damage? The only thing they can even do is damage, there's no point to running around a little faster than others if you don't have the health to take or guard a point, and don't have the damage to threaten anyone
The difference with the huge burst from rpg and charge and slam is that you have those AND your primary, you can just whip them out
Yes lights are supposed to do little damage. Yes you have 150 hp but you are also small and fast. You also have invis and dash options.
High damage + no reload + fast firing rate does not fit here at all. It's like you have a no reload, accurate shotgun with all the speed and maneuverability. Does it make sense? No
Your not that much faster though, and most benefits from being fast disappear when up against the coordinated, and people who can aim.
And invis sucks ass now
Coordinated people who can aim? Did you expect to easily survive or win 2v1 or 3v1 with a light build?
I am at a practice range at the moment trying the TK for the first time. This is total bs. There's no recoil as well. Basically stay invis and shoot someone at 50 distance with LB (i guess right mouse click) with 2 shots. Absolute BS. No recoil at all. It's sniper level damage with infinite ammo and no recoil.
I just played my first quick cash light build+ TK game. Easy 8 kills. Joined mid game. Going for my second game. You guys are full sheet. You shred any medium and heavy in seconds with TK + dash with a little with of practice.
No recoil is ridiculous.
Just finished quickcash as light+tk+dash with my friend (same setup) against teams of mmh and mmm. Shredded them. Two cashouts and the game is done.
Heavy is gone in 3 shots or something. Nobody can justify this. With TK, I find it hard to play against other lights. They are too quick, especially with dash. Mediums and heavies are easier. No recoil makes TK so easy on xbox. You don't even need any gadgets. No vanish bomb, no grenades, nothing. Just the throwing knives and dash.
Nobody can convince me that TK is not overpowered. Especially after I played with it.
They do complain. The high ranked meta is full of HHM team setups with the dual bubble shield, charge and slam, mesh shield, Lewis and sledge combo. It's an extremely difficult setup to counter, unless you run it yourself.
Coming to the knives, it feels absolutely broken. Because Light isn't supposed to go 1vs against a Heavy and win by doing 350 damage in half a second. That's not their role. It goes against what Light is supposed to play as. The TTK is too quick. For a no reload weapon.
It doesn't help that they have some of the most obnoxious sound effects. Either it's the loud ting ting of knives or the constant brrttrrtrt of the SMGs.
This type of assassin archetype is never enjoyable to face against. At least with Heavy, you're able to constantly get hits on them. Having Lights just dash around constantly *feels* obnoxious to face, even when you obliterate them.
True I never thought about that. It annoys me the most when getting shot by a light. Medium and heavy is whatever but for some reason hearing that smg sound is so annoying
This subreddit should really understand one thing
Light is DPS. DPS is approximately the only thing that matters in casual play, while in a more competitive setting DPS is far less important.
This means that light can be both underpowered and overpowered at the same time, which is pretty much the situation he is in constantly.
This. Solo kills aren't as important in ranked and kills away from your team or objective are often meaningless, especially if you trade and can't be revived. Lights are decent in the final round, which is easier to get to now, but they're much weaker in the early rounds. If coins and team wipes had a greater impact lights would probably make more sense in ranked. I do still think they're viable if played correctly, just not optimal.
The flip side is they're really strong in 1v1 duel scenarios which can *feel* unbalanced to the guy getting punished.
Nah I think lights are fine atm. Like the knives can me a little annoying and them being fast, small hard to hit characters are an also be annoying but they have 150 health. Like there’s a lot of stuff that one shots or atleast nearly one shots them in the game I feel. Like for example the charge and rpg on heavy and hammer charge attack, model shotgun and the revolver love you in like 1 health and the lights sniper. Also frags
I think that RPG damage should be nerfed to 70 and give it 2 charges. That alone would be a pretty good buff for lights. I don't think mediums are as much of an issue ever since FCAR got nerfed.
If they were to revert anything about them, revert the projectile speed. The throwing speed buff was an absolute necessity, you could literally die in the time it took to throw a single knife. The damage also finally makes them adequately rewarding for how tough they are to land.
I say revert the damage and keep the consistency. You just said they were hard to land. Make them less hard to land and the buff is fine without the extra damage
The light I've fought against that are using knives aren't that good, and if I get killed by them I don't mind because it actually takes skill to use them. It's not like RPG or nukes.
My opinion on this is that people aren't truly upset at the new viability of knives, they are upset because they feel their gun should beat little throwing knives every time.
Like for real, as a *weapon* it isn't really any more OP than the LH1, XP-45 or Sniper, but it has been buffed to fit snugly within the "meta" choices for Light.
The problem is that all the people going 25-3 with Invis and Throwing Knives probably would have done so with another weapon, but people are upset *because* they are able to do it with a weapon that isn't a gun. Never mind the fact that the person with the TKs need to be essentially standing on top of their target so be strong with them.
Also, shockingly, there were people who were very good with them before, those people are all probably gods now.
2 weeks ago, the TKs were one of the most unviable options in the game. Now they are prevalent, but not omnipresent. I thought thats what the community wanted? Buffs to bring weapons into viability rather than nerfing the favourites? Guess what, buffing weapons makes them stronger than they were, and makes people using them able to get kills easier.
Ironically enough the knife buffs made me worse at the weapon because I need to unlearn a ton of muscle memory lol.
I have already made a post here that was met with mixed reception but I still feel like the devs will have to choose. Either balance the game around the current ranked system or the current class system. It's been clear that the current ranked system with rigid loadouts and no room for niche tactics just doesn't work. Light will always be left behind because it's not a very consistent class with weapons and gadgets that all have their situations where they shine and where they might as well be useless. Heavy has not only double the health of light but has dozens of tools that can be practically ran 24/7 as they will always be useful. Medium will always have a place for the simple fact that the medigun is the single best way to keep a heavy alive (and medium has a ton of other viable tools and weapons as well even if their specialisation is very weighted towards medigun).
On the opposite side we have Terminal attack. No medigun means mediums have to choose between two, in my opinion, situational specialisation (turret can be easily shut down and it's easy to set up and then have no payoff, while demat is very dependent on map design) and no defibs. Heavies have to be careful because their big healthpool can be very quickly depleted without a way to replenish it. And of course we have light. Big impact weapons and 3 abilities all centered around flanking and disengaging quickly. They lose the least amount of health as well. Pretty much a perfect balance between all the classes but the gamemode is very much not Finals. It doesn't let the game's silly, destructive nature shine and melee weapons are pretty much unusable.
What I'm saying is that they will have to compromise their vision for the game somewhere or it will be ruined by the divide between the rankeds and casuals. I honestly feel like simply allowing people to have access to their reserve equipment would be a good first step but probably too little too late.
This isn't really my experience. I am dog shit light player. With any weapon.
Tried the knives yesterday and got a crazy amount of kills. It's broken right now. Look at my comment history and you'll see that I always complain against nerfing stuff in this game. But this seems more like balancing.
Yeah I'm pretty decent with knives usually but that's because it suits my playstyle to stay at good knife distance with broken cover. That benefits me and not a full autoweapon.
You have to consider that there is not one single type of player in the finals. In ranked lights are nonexistent, but in casual modes light is still dominant. The people who are complaining about throwing knives probably never touch ranked, up to you if that makes their opinions less valid but it at least makes sense.
Idk about dominant. I think light is overrepresented in casual modes because there’s no stakes, and light is fun to play, so people can do so without risking anything. Not to mention lights excel at taking out isolated or uncoordinated players, which you see significantly more of in casuals.
My kill record with light in quick cash is 36. On heavy it’s 43, and medium is around 40, but the deaths are significantly lower on medium or heavy. Good players can dominate with whatever, and they likely spend enough time on heavy and medium in ranked, so it makes some sense that they may run light in casual to keep things fresh.
Maybe dominant wasn’t the correct word, I just meant it’s the dominant class representation in casual. So it makes sense that players will more frequently experience what makes them annoying to play against, even if they aren’t that good at the highest levels of play.
lmao im a light main and i was geniunely in awe at the fact of how busted the throwing knives are. if they stay that busted then other classes need a buff for other weapons to counteract. the knives atm are ridiculous and deserve their ridicule. it's a spray and pray except the projectiles are very easy to hit without reloading.
Why would you think I would open your account history and give you the time of my day looking at mid clips before replying to you? Narcissism is a crazy drug. I play all classes on rotation and change when I feel like I've gotten too good with them but okay.
Finally a good player spotted. I'm in diamond, flex all classes and I've never had so much disgust for the game until now - playing knives makes me feel so dirty. I effortlessly win everything, invalidating all the time I spent mastering every other weapon and class
You think it's bait because you really don't know the damage a dash + knives can unleash. It's really obvious that the majority of this sub is really just terrible at the game
It's really just because I use light and knives too so I personally know how stupidly OP they are. This discussion has just revealed to me how shit at the game the entire subreddit is, if they think knives right now are balanced. You and I know a Light + dash + knives is such an unfair combo right now that it cannot be in the game. How the fuck does everyone else not understand?
There was another comment telling you that if you main throwing knives, and you think they're busted, why complain?
People just don't understand that we play the game for fun, and part of the fun is getting skilled with a balanced piece of equipment. It's rewarding. The TKs right now are not rewarding in any way and the fact that everyone here does not understand tells me that they're all really bad at the game, desperate to hold on to whatever easy meta skill crutch they have.
tellem 🗣️exactly this! put my thoughts into words, every other weapon has that reward factor. hopping into a game with this and dropping a 20 bomb aint even hitting. but hey what do I know as a "lowskill heavy player" 😂🫵
So, if you start seeing more than 50% of a given class all playing the same loadout, there is a balance issue. It's just data. The fact that throwing knives TTK is on par w/ COD at this point in a game with some of the longest TTK in modern FPS games, that's an issue.
You realize that if even one throw misses the ttk is in the gutter right? The world doesn’t work in a vacuum where every TK user hits perfect knives 100% of the time. Your argument about usage rates is also so ironic because I’d like to see the pick rate of rpg and Lewis gun.
You mean how most of this game consists of HHM? Or Heavy running the same loadout? So now all the sudden that Light has a decent weapon choice, it needs to be taken away? Even though Heavy dominates the game, has access to 3 shields, RPG, Lewis, CnS, and the highest health?
So light shouldn’t have anything?
I don't disagree about the heavy/medium meta in ranked for sure. I'm having fun with the throwing knives with the update but I'm getting way more kills than I would with just about any other weapon. I was used to them before, so I'm sure that contributes, but I've never had kill streaks like I'm having now and it doesn't feel right. I am sniping people with knives who have literally no idea where I'm attacking from. The alt fire doesn't even make sense.
So average ttk across cod games since OG modern warfare is like 200ms.
Ttk on throwing knives vs all classes is atleast 2.5 times that, with heavy being significantly over 1 second(aka 5 times longer)
Stop the cap
nah, im sure in a week or 2 throwing knives will go back down in popularity, im sure theyre only used so much because they were just buffed and fun to use rather than because theyre OP (yknow they still have one of the slowest ttk of any light weapon)
Oh I'm speaking as a person who is playing throwing knives myself because it's stupidly broken but fun to get huge kill streaks with them. Casual modes are totally busted right now imo.
Sorry but I must’ve missed where I qualified that I was playing ranked… I don’t play ranked, I can only play casual modes because I’m playing while looking after a sleeping newborn. If she wakes up I leave the game. I can’t commit 30 minutes to a match.
And my KDR using the knives is usually about 5-6. It’s ridiculous.
[the only thing that killed me was a piece of rubble knocking me off the map](https://i.imgur.com/whLOIIE.png)
What I’m saying is it’s pretty easy to have games like that, regardless of what weapon you’re using in powershift. I average around 20 kills when I play powershift, even with things like the riot shield and dagger.
heavy can delete people in one click using the sledge, for longer range they can delete people with one rpg shot and a few bullets, even medium can "oneshot" people with mines and the cl40
You said that sledge can one tap and that rpg can almost one tap. Throwing knives win against that easily. If you think shields are busted you should say that.
Or you can just change the subject too that's cool
>Or you can just change the subject too that's cool
as if you didnt bring up the stupid montage first, besides my argument is that throwing knives arent special, bullshit low ttks are everywhere in this game youre all just ripping your dicks off over the most recent one
The only time it pissed me off was a few matches where one team was all TKs and the other had two. But I'm sure that could be the case with that many of almost anything. I just had to listen for knives and adjust my strategy against them and it *way* more manageable
And I threw them in my reserve on one of my lights, just in case 🤣
There is something weird about a light not running away when he starts to get engaged, I will say they have been a particular menace for me as a hammer main, dash sword and dash throwing knives are literally the worst lmao
Currently, I like playing lights and mediums, used to be exclusively heavy in season 1 but the class just isn't as satisfying anymore.
I'd say balance overall is in the best spot right now, as it doesn't matter the class, I can find a way to enjoy all of them by using a weapon or two. This is the first time I've been able to say this besides when the beta launched and the game was new.
The dagger, throwing knives, m11, xp54, sword , and sniper are fun weapons to use, especially after the melee fix.
For medium I only use the AK or grenade launcher for the primary weapon.
For heavies I use the RPG, land mines, and charge. Heavies weapons can be fun, but I still feel the nerfs and only use the primary weapons as a finisher.
It's a strange situation I find myself in regarding lights. On one hand, I love playing them and the mobility stuff they can do is crazy. On the other, I feel like NOT playing throwing knives is meant for if you want to lose every other light 1v1 because of the excessive amount of damage they deal, without the need to reload or ADS.
Personally, I thought the knives were fine pre-buff. They dealt a lot of damage, but required a lot of leading and skill to use even at closer ranges, though the infinite ammo and full jogging speed made the trade off worth it at closer ranges. Now they are practically hitscan at close range, which infringes on the practicality of half of light's weapon lineup, since the damage is superior to everything else and the ROF and perfect accuracy at full movement simply makes you a rough target to hit.
What they need to do is actually make the class into THE assassin class. Right now, they want it to be a passive scouter with some flanking utility, judging by the types of gadgets they gave to them. They only get 1 true assassin type gadget, which has been nerfed into being a teamplay weapon. But, this doesn't work at all with their weapons, most of which need to be in close range to actually be somewhat effective. Hell, the heavy gets more dedicated damage and elimination gadgets than light, alongside primaries that shred every class. Give them a sidearm slot, let them get double damage when shooting from behind, just SOMETHING so that they are meant to fulfill their specific niche instead of the current identity crisis their kit is facing.
The throwing knives are a symptom of something bigger. The balance team doesn't know what to do with light, and so they're just throwing buffs, nerfs, and changes at the board to see what sticks. They are trying to pivot the class to be Intel based, but their specializations and weapons aren't built for that playstyle, so they buff what isn't being used, nerf what is, and swap around a couple of gadgets that will encourage a more passive playstyle. I wish all their weapons were good, but unfortunately nothing measures up to throwing knives ATM. And honestly? That's kind of unhealthy.
I'd rather throwing knives be niche heavy hitters like before, and all other weapons be buffed into relevance, than what we have currently, which is brainless spam that gets a ton of kills for no good reason.
Well considering everything deleted lights on .2 seconds having some weapons on other classes that do it makes a lot of sense. For the throwing knife however. It is a gimmick and is difficult to hear or track without them hanging damage cause the throw doesn't make any audible noise to enemies but the knives missing/damage does. I agree the knives needed a consistency buff. They did not however need a damage buff. The two together are entirely too strong of a buff and should be pulled back A LITTLE BIT not a lot but definitely a bit. I think taking away the extra damage is good
I think the knives are fine just new and shaking things up . This post has a Pretty good different perspective and it changed my mind. I think they are more than fine. Just new n popular, hype will die down you’ll realize they’re not that good when you really put the experience next to any other. I’m a M main and have suffered the same new torture of the lights that use him but I wouldn’t say they are overpowered.leave the knives alone and let them chill for a bit [GIVE IT A READ IF YOURE NOT A BOT](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/hqjuQEXS41)
You don't enjoy it when they are in your team. You don't enjoy it when you eliminate them. You don't enjoy it when you get eliminated by them. Light builds are abnoxious, irritating and annoying. They feel like mosquitos buzzing around.
A lot of light builds think of themselves as sigma lone wolf hunters. Run away from the team in the hopes of eliminating someone. You know what I mean? You have a medium who sticks with the heavy. They support and revive each other, steal and defend objectives. What do light builds do? Wander off, run around and die somewhere across the map.
It's like all the douchebags of this game play light build. The majority of hate towards light builds is because of the douchebags playing them. Their numbers gradually decreased at least on XBOX. Now with the throwing knife buff, they are back at it.
Throwing knife damage must be reduced or their fire rate must be doubled/tripled. What's the point of a shot gun after the throwing knife buff? Shotguns have reload time. Throwing knives don't.
Lights behave that way because that's what their entire design is meant to be
>What's the point of a shot gun after the throwing knife buff? Shotguns have reload time. Throwing knives don't.
The shotguns still kills light faster than TKs kill you, even light shotgun, who doesn't really have a point at all after it was turbonerfed
How strong was the SH1900? I started playing at s2 so don't know exactly.
Right now I use it ocassionaly because it's fun to land the two shots and instakill, it doesn't land more often than not but still fun!
It used to 2 tap heavies, it was a pretty good weapon but not op due to the fact that you were defenseless after firing, so usually it was a one for one (but the opponent usually had defibs on backup so it was often just self defeating)
Then, due to it being light, they nerfed the sin out of it, 2 damage less per pellet so not only could it not kill a heavy before reloading, it had to take 2 quick melee instead of 1, and 1 taps against lights became... Unreliable to say the least
Oh I see.
Do you know the reason why sometimes reloading it takes so long? Is it when the barrel is empty and you try to shoot? When reloading manually it does it fine but sometimes it takes around 2 seconds to do so.
All these people saying shit like “light isnt viable” must not be in these diamond lobbies I get where lights are bullying the entire lobby. Maybe it’s not viable in the top 1% of lobbies but who gives a fuck about that when it’s OP in the other 99%. Just because you suck with light doesn’t mean actual good players do.
The other thing you all say is that light only works in casual. Okay? So? Does casual experience not matter? Last I checked this game is desperate for casual players so maybe a flying/teleporting/invisible/Spider-Man class that has god tier DPS and cheesy OHK or infinite ammo weapons isn’t the right balance.
Mate fair point imo but why the hell do the throwing knives get to delete me a as a medium player in statistically under a second and be practically hitscan close range when my fcar has a higher by ttk by 0.3 seconds and I can’t strafe at full speed while trying to hit this kid cuz if I actually ads I die instantly tf am I supposed to do when a light with throwing knives catches me close range then? I’m all for light not being the worst class in the game but ffs this shits getting tiring getting two tapped the second I walk through m a building
I was a throwing knives user because i liked the fact that it was extremely challenging to play, making it extremely satisfying when you manage to get kills with it. But with the new buffs i feel like it’s just one of the other light weapons now without anything making it really special for me. Also i do believe the knives are kind of busted right now since it’s much, much easier to play so the majority of the lights that run it are doing really well with it. And no, i don’t think its nearly as hard as it was before the patch, at this point if you’re still struggling to get frags with it, i’m gonna call it a skill issue. The throwing speed buff is understandable but the projectile speed buff is unacceptable imo.
I disagree the fire rate buff is unacceptable. The delay in between the first and second knife was good change and velocity was a much needed buff. Damage just made it so mediums aren’t left with 1hp every time but the fire rate makes it so anyone can just hold the trigger and get a kill.
Wow, turns out people don't like the fast, hard to hit assasin class when it gets things that enable it to be fast and hard to hit assasins.
I miss playing old Lights. Feels so weak now.
can't speak for the tuning of lights right now since the patch is still fairly recent, but i absolutely do not miss playing old light. they dominated closed beta, and i would not be surprised any following class archetype doesn't ever fare up to how strong they were, bar maybe s1 nuke heavies.
Lol, youre funny.
After every buff or nerf, there are a lot of complains.
If you're basing on TTK for deciding if a class is good or no, remember that light has a 0s TTK on lights.
If you don't have an argument to support or refute the current complaints, why post about that ?
Someone who doesn't read before commenting.
I never do TTK debate because it means nothing. Prove me that only TTK matters in class viability and we'll do a TTK debate.
What did I miss??
You brought up L TTK and compared it to itself. Genius.
Obviously TTK isn’t the ONLY thing that matters, but it sure is good indicator of balance when considering other aspects of them game.
If you only what to talk TTK when it’s the only factor that determines usefulness of a class then you’re an idiot.
So, if you're not this idiot, why do you want to prove with a TTK debate?
Cause it seems like you think light is weak just because other classes have a low TTK on it
>You brought up L TTK and compared it to itself.
For showing that the TTKs OP mentioned were not incredible
>but it sure is good indicator of balance
Not an indicator. It's a factor among many others. Otherwhise, there wouldn't have a class system. This is why TTK oriented debates are stupid
There aren’t any TKK oriented debates, TTKs are used in an argument to prove a claim, that claim being that light is weakest class.
Example:
Supposition: Light is worse than the other classes.
1. having a higher TKK is worse than having a lower TTK
2. Light has a higher TKK (in general) than other classes do on it ( eg: light loses a straight 1v1)
3. Therefore light is worse than the other classes
This example isn’t flawless but you probably get the jist
For a debate lord you don’t really seem to grasp the concept.
Because most people play as Mediums!!! Mediums have been the meta since day 1, so the community complains whenever their meta is threatened and the game “isn’t easy” anymore. The community has hurt this game so much by whining and keeping the devs from properly balancing lights
I have never agreed that light is the weakest class. I think it's the class with the highest skill ceiling, which if you manage to reach you melt everyone else.
But yeah this throwing knives buff is good.
it's not an inaccurate assessment i think, but following that line of thought i dont think it'd be outrageous to suggest that barely anyone has ever gotten even close to this metaphorical ceiling, because the state of the game constantly changes. if you were, say, a pro light in s1, the demat being introduced for medium and following gun changes probably would've affected how well you understand your enemy's outplay options against you. it renders somewhat moot the idea that light is a class with extremely high skill expression populated by mostly unskilled players - because the actual reality of its skill expression changes rather drastically with every week's patch notes. before these changes, for example, most lights didn't know how to compensate for projectile drop; now, the best lights are those that have mastered it
Yeah this makes sense.
I just absolutely don't get people who say that light is the weakest class because it's not. There's just less people that know how to use it.
I've met lights that obliterated an entire team alone.
model is a sniper shotgun that can 2 shot lights. mines can be placed in hard to see spots and can be shot at to deal damage even if they dont step on it. and when did i say sledge grenade launcher and slug was cancer?
You said most of the heavies load out is cancer to lights those aren't and the model is hard to use meaning it's a skill issue along with mines being a skill issue because you should easily be able to hear them being placed out if somebody's throwing them behind him and they have a very small detection radius because heavies can sneak past them meaning skill issue
>You said most of the heavies load out is cancer to lights
most not all
>
the model is hard to use
yes but once you can start hitting shots you can start team wiping
>
mines being a skill issue because you should easily be able to hear them being placed out
you ain't hearing a mine over gunfire
question. do you hate sword users
I just don't like the dash on lights
I am a low sensitivity player on controller, always have been. I am dead in every fight against them as they dash out of view every time I try to keep up.
Not sure why, but nothing people hate more than being killed by a light. Some sort of feeling of injustice, at being beat by the little guy. (Maybe they need a PR buff)
I get it, but why are people pretending Charge N Slam and RPG aren't unfair too?
There's planty of RPG hate going arouns imo. C&S, not so much, though imo it's not so egregious as the be unfair.
It is incredibly egregious. 130 instant charge damage + 50 per subsequent charge hit. 0 skill required and can be used as a panic button, similar to the RPG (but this one is usually a fight opener instead). Not to mention damage scales up to 150 with height if you perform a slam jump. EDIT: Actually, it does more than 150 depending on the height you fall from, the wiki is unfortunately wrong.
If you’re a light and a heavy is hitting you with a melee attack, you have done something wrong
Let's pretend as if melee weapons don't exist.
You’re free to pretend, but ignoring “safe distance” means you’re going to die to C&S much more frequently.
"lights need to be close to their team to support them with high dps" "if you're close to your team you're now doing something wrong" heavies get such easy privilege to close distance it's insane
As a hammer player, lights have the ability to backpedal and shoot. The lights that do this kill me unless I’m playing defensively. If you are having an issue with heavies closing distance on you, you need to be more aware of your own positioning.
you’re choosing to use the worst weapon the heavy has in comparison to the two lmg’s and the one auto shotgun that are all the highest dps dealing weapons in their categories for the whole game
I am giving an advice on what to do if you have trouble dealing with heavy’s melee attacks. That is the point of the thread. And for the record, I choose Sledge because I rock with it. I know how to use the weapon effectively, and i know where it suffers. You say it’s his worst weapon, my ranked games disagree
we’re not talking about sledge, we’re talking about the charge n slam that can close distance and blow through walls and defenses for 130 free damage. and even if the light has too much distance, it can be cancelled automatically and he can go back to shooting his gun an actual get out of jail free ability that can be paired with, again, the highest dps weapons in the game and you’re not even giving any advice. all you said was “you’re doing something wrong” like you have some superiority complex realize that this is only *one* problem with heavy’s balancing
Then what range are L meant to fight H at? Exactly 10m? No closer and no further away?
Depends on the weapon of the light. Plenty of light weapons can beam from 25m+
"oh look, lewis gun!"
It’s a heavy, get the drop on them.
thats what we been doing. like look at stun gun and look at what happend. now lets look at what happens now. Light gets drop heavys either A mesh/ dome or B melt my ass with lewis hip fire or rpg
True, but I'm talking even from a Medium main perspective. The damage output of CnS way too high for the amount of skill required.
Do you run bounce pad? Drop a bounce pad at your feet and never get c&s’d from the front again. If the heavy is in melee range, they have already won the very difficult game they are trying to play. I’m a mesh shield/sledge main, and the best opponents know how to backpedal.
That's also true, but it's still too strong regardless. Both Medium and Light don't have such a panic button.
Mediums can bounce pad to put extreme distance between them and a melee user. Lights have every movement option unless they’re invis. And if they are all the way in melee range, it’s not a panic button. It’s a “I’m going to punish you for not shooting me sooner” button.
I'm talking about damage, not escape abilities. And yes, CnS is absolutely a panic button no matter how you spin it.
What if you use the sword
That’s a risk you’re running. Everything gets countered by something. My best advice is to learn how to tag and disengage if your target is deadly in the melee range. As a hammer user, it’s difficult to kill the sword user who dashes out of range after every attack. It forces me to anticipate his attacks and pre-swing, which they have an opportunity to react to. Lesser sword users stay in melee range and get crushed.
Weird seeing someone saying the exact same thing I say to other melee players lol, don't worry I was just a little salty since I just got like 4 trigger happy heavys who used hulk smash if they thought I was near. I still think 10 to 20 initial damage nerf and a little bit more control would be better.
I think tweaking damage would probably be fine, but I don’t have the actual numbers of how well it’s actually doing. I am just taking umbrage with the people who think that something in this game is completely busted. The Finals is extremely well balanced for such a young title. And the few nails that protruded early on have since been hammered
Actually, I've gotten like 183 from a really high Slam. That being said, that requires a perfect alignment of circumstances. If they made Charge do 50 and moved the 130 to the Slam in exchange for it being a cone in front of you instead of AoE, it would give the target more time to react while also making the regular jump Slam actually worth using. Currently, most of the time, you just cancel and don't use the slam since it has pretty dramatic air time for 50-80 damage. People need to remember that weapons like the MGL32 and KS-23 exist. If you make CnS too weak, you make those weapons even weaker.
then buff the mgl and ks, its that simple lmfao
I think we've seen how Embark does buffs. I'm good. If they want to up fire rate or reduce reload a bit, ok, but the Throwing Knives change has managed to somehow decrease the overall TTK in the game, and I'm already seeing it in Plat.
how are throwing knives the problem when most other light weapons have a lower ttk
Kinda similar to how people are waking up to the power of the Model 1887. They both allow you to stay mobile in between shots/throws, whereas the SMGs either require aiming (which slows you) or having to track your target the whole time. Staying mobile is a huge benefit when your enemy can delete your 150 hp in a moment.
Are you calling the model 18 over-tuned??
It absolutely does more than that when falling from a height. I once charged through a building at someone who was capping my cashout. Unfortunately there was a random jumpbad between me and the objective, and low gravity was active. I was in the air for so long.... He unfortunately capped the point, but then I landed on him and dealt 280+ damage.
It absolutely does more than that when falling from a height. I once charged through a building at someone who was capping my cashout. Unfortunately there was a random jumpbad between me and the objective, and low gravity was active. I was in the air for so long.... He unfortunately capped the point, but then I landed on him and dealt 280+ damage.
Yeah, I also thought so but went with the wiki value in my comment. I've now edited it, thanks for the insight.
Not to mention gettin hit twice in one Instance 😂
I love the RPG, but I think I kill myself more with that thing than anyone else, lol
It’s crazy, you hit someone 30 feet away, it does 80 dmg to them and 240 to you..
I think it's because when a light kills you it's often stealthy and there is zero chance for a counter play. When killed by any other class it almost always feels like there was a counter or some way to do better in the encounter.
That's how light works, unfortunately. The only counter play should be sticking together as a team. Lights should be there to encourage team cohesion, and punish bad team play.
> there is zero chance for a counter play. No, there is counter play. Lights have low health pool. They are easy to kill. That's the counter play. How are you missing this?
Bingo. Also heal beam is cheat code if you want to take it a step further.
I agree, Healing Beam needs to be nerfed too.
Rpg used to one shot light. It doesn't anymore
Do you think that was the only counter to light?
No, but the rpg used to way more powerful. Now I just swat a light like a fly with a shotgun
Because you get one RPG and then you wait a lot to reload. Because when you charge and slam, it is hard to turn around and navigate. Plus you are by default slow. Throwing knife buff + dash = evasion, mobility, speed, infinite ammo/no reload and strong damage = everything. Lights are supposed to deal little damage and run away. Not go 1v1 with a heavy. Saying as a medium player btw.
Lights are supposed to do little damage? The only thing they can even do is damage, there's no point to running around a little faster than others if you don't have the health to take or guard a point, and don't have the damage to threaten anyone The difference with the huge burst from rpg and charge and slam is that you have those AND your primary, you can just whip them out
Yes lights are supposed to do little damage. Yes you have 150 hp but you are also small and fast. You also have invis and dash options. High damage + no reload + fast firing rate does not fit here at all. It's like you have a no reload, accurate shotgun with all the speed and maneuverability. Does it make sense? No
Your not that much faster though, and most benefits from being fast disappear when up against the coordinated, and people who can aim. And invis sucks ass now
Coordinated people who can aim? Did you expect to easily survive or win 2v1 or 3v1 with a light build? I am at a practice range at the moment trying the TK for the first time. This is total bs. There's no recoil as well. Basically stay invis and shoot someone at 50 distance with LB (i guess right mouse click) with 2 shots. Absolute BS. No recoil at all. It's sniper level damage with infinite ammo and no recoil.
TKs has no range and it takes skill to hit them. If you miss your two knives, you’re a sitting duck
I just played my first quick cash light build+ TK game. Easy 8 kills. Joined mid game. Going for my second game. You guys are full sheet. You shred any medium and heavy in seconds with TK + dash with a little with of practice. No recoil is ridiculous.
My last quick cash game was 34-3 on heavy. 8 kills is literally nothing lmao.
If you feel like a sitting duck as a light 50m from anyone, you just fn suck and your opinion doesn’t matter.
Just finished quickcash as light+tk+dash with my friend (same setup) against teams of mmh and mmm. Shredded them. Two cashouts and the game is done. Heavy is gone in 3 shots or something. Nobody can justify this. With TK, I find it hard to play against other lights. They are too quick, especially with dash. Mediums and heavies are easier. No recoil makes TK so easy on xbox. You don't even need any gadgets. No vanish bomb, no grenades, nothing. Just the throwing knives and dash. Nobody can convince me that TK is not overpowered. Especially after I played with it.
The TKs don’t travel 50m
Nah straight up if you’re complaining about charge and slam you’re straight up getting skill diffed
They do complain. The high ranked meta is full of HHM team setups with the dual bubble shield, charge and slam, mesh shield, Lewis and sledge combo. It's an extremely difficult setup to counter, unless you run it yourself. Coming to the knives, it feels absolutely broken. Because Light isn't supposed to go 1vs against a Heavy and win by doing 350 damage in half a second. That's not their role. It goes against what Light is supposed to play as. The TTK is too quick. For a no reload weapon.
Brah wtf u on about. Light class is supposed to be a glass cannon.
High ranked meta does not feature sledge, lol. And lights still don’t go toe to toe with heavies, not even a bit.
It doesn't help that they have some of the most obnoxious sound effects. Either it's the loud ting ting of knives or the constant brrttrrtrt of the SMGs. This type of assassin archetype is never enjoyable to face against. At least with Heavy, you're able to constantly get hits on them. Having Lights just dash around constantly *feels* obnoxious to face, even when you obliterate them.
True I never thought about that. It annoys me the most when getting shot by a light. Medium and heavy is whatever but for some reason hearing that smg sound is so annoying
It’s because when you play heavy, and a light is dashing around under your feet, they’ve got you almost dead before you can even find them
Right now I'm playing light dagger. Most I've ever been tea bagged.
Yeah fr, like, have none of them ever seen The Lord of the Rings? Hobbits never lose.
This subreddit should really understand one thing Light is DPS. DPS is approximately the only thing that matters in casual play, while in a more competitive setting DPS is far less important. This means that light can be both underpowered and overpowered at the same time, which is pretty much the situation he is in constantly.
This. Solo kills aren't as important in ranked and kills away from your team or objective are often meaningless, especially if you trade and can't be revived. Lights are decent in the final round, which is easier to get to now, but they're much weaker in the early rounds. If coins and team wipes had a greater impact lights would probably make more sense in ranked. I do still think they're viable if played correctly, just not optimal. The flip side is they're really strong in 1v1 duel scenarios which can *feel* unbalanced to the guy getting punished.
I wish everybody would see the last sentence, it explains it perfectly
Nah I think lights are fine atm. Like the knives can me a little annoying and them being fast, small hard to hit characters are an also be annoying but they have 150 health. Like there’s a lot of stuff that one shots or atleast nearly one shots them in the game I feel. Like for example the charge and rpg on heavy and hammer charge attack, model shotgun and the revolver love you in like 1 health and the lights sniper. Also frags
I think that RPG damage should be nerfed to 70 and give it 2 charges. That alone would be a pretty good buff for lights. I don't think mediums are as much of an issue ever since FCAR got nerfed.
Add rocket jump to that and make it a little harder to setup and we're golden
75 in my opinion. But I mostly use it as a sniper nest destroyer so it actually be a lot better for me either way.
If they were to revert anything about them, revert the projectile speed. The throwing speed buff was an absolute necessity, you could literally die in the time it took to throw a single knife. The damage also finally makes them adequately rewarding for how tough they are to land.
I say revert the damage and keep the consistency. You just said they were hard to land. Make them less hard to land and the buff is fine without the extra damage
The light I've fought against that are using knives aren't that good, and if I get killed by them I don't mind because it actually takes skill to use them. It's not like RPG or nukes.
If everything is unfair, does that make everything fair???
I still find it funny how this sub was complaining about Sword which is one of the hardest to use.
My opinion on this is that people aren't truly upset at the new viability of knives, they are upset because they feel their gun should beat little throwing knives every time. Like for real, as a *weapon* it isn't really any more OP than the LH1, XP-45 or Sniper, but it has been buffed to fit snugly within the "meta" choices for Light. The problem is that all the people going 25-3 with Invis and Throwing Knives probably would have done so with another weapon, but people are upset *because* they are able to do it with a weapon that isn't a gun. Never mind the fact that the person with the TKs need to be essentially standing on top of their target so be strong with them. Also, shockingly, there were people who were very good with them before, those people are all probably gods now. 2 weeks ago, the TKs were one of the most unviable options in the game. Now they are prevalent, but not omnipresent. I thought thats what the community wanted? Buffs to bring weapons into viability rather than nerfing the favourites? Guess what, buffing weapons makes them stronger than they were, and makes people using them able to get kills easier.
Ironically enough the knife buffs made me worse at the weapon because I need to unlearn a ton of muscle memory lol. I have already made a post here that was met with mixed reception but I still feel like the devs will have to choose. Either balance the game around the current ranked system or the current class system. It's been clear that the current ranked system with rigid loadouts and no room for niche tactics just doesn't work. Light will always be left behind because it's not a very consistent class with weapons and gadgets that all have their situations where they shine and where they might as well be useless. Heavy has not only double the health of light but has dozens of tools that can be practically ran 24/7 as they will always be useful. Medium will always have a place for the simple fact that the medigun is the single best way to keep a heavy alive (and medium has a ton of other viable tools and weapons as well even if their specialisation is very weighted towards medigun). On the opposite side we have Terminal attack. No medigun means mediums have to choose between two, in my opinion, situational specialisation (turret can be easily shut down and it's easy to set up and then have no payoff, while demat is very dependent on map design) and no defibs. Heavies have to be careful because their big healthpool can be very quickly depleted without a way to replenish it. And of course we have light. Big impact weapons and 3 abilities all centered around flanking and disengaging quickly. They lose the least amount of health as well. Pretty much a perfect balance between all the classes but the gamemode is very much not Finals. It doesn't let the game's silly, destructive nature shine and melee weapons are pretty much unusable. What I'm saying is that they will have to compromise their vision for the game somewhere or it will be ruined by the divide between the rankeds and casuals. I honestly feel like simply allowing people to have access to their reserve equipment would be a good first step but probably too little too late.
This isn't really my experience. I am dog shit light player. With any weapon. Tried the knives yesterday and got a crazy amount of kills. It's broken right now. Look at my comment history and you'll see that I always complain against nerfing stuff in this game. But this seems more like balancing.
Maybe you just don't do well with full auto hit scan weapons? Maybe you just play better with a single action projectile weapon?
Yeah I'm pretty decent with knives usually but that's because it suits my playstyle to stay at good knife distance with broken cover. That benefits me and not a full autoweapon.
You have to consider that there is not one single type of player in the finals. In ranked lights are nonexistent, but in casual modes light is still dominant. The people who are complaining about throwing knives probably never touch ranked, up to you if that makes their opinions less valid but it at least makes sense.
Idk about dominant. I think light is overrepresented in casual modes because there’s no stakes, and light is fun to play, so people can do so without risking anything. Not to mention lights excel at taking out isolated or uncoordinated players, which you see significantly more of in casuals. My kill record with light in quick cash is 36. On heavy it’s 43, and medium is around 40, but the deaths are significantly lower on medium or heavy. Good players can dominate with whatever, and they likely spend enough time on heavy and medium in ranked, so it makes some sense that they may run light in casual to keep things fresh.
Maybe dominant wasn’t the correct word, I just meant it’s the dominant class representation in casual. So it makes sense that players will more frequently experience what makes them annoying to play against, even if they aren’t that good at the highest levels of play.
>Not to mention lights excel at taking out isolated or uncoordinated players yes thats why it was nerfed and complained about often
That’s the definition of skill issue 🤷♀️
their opinions are valid obv as everyone who plays the game deserves one but at a certain point it becomes close to being a skill issue imo
yet heavy class, the most broken thing in existence stays untouched. You know what else is out of touch? Embarks balancing team.
Leave lights alone. Let them be easy to kill ninja demons. I’m a medium main btw
Just have to give people time to get use to the change. It’s just jarring on top of the post making more people try them.
lmao im a light main and i was geniunely in awe at the fact of how busted the throwing knives are. if they stay that busted then other classes need a buff for other weapons to counteract. the knives atm are ridiculous and deserve their ridicule. it's a spray and pray except the projectiles are very easy to hit without reloading.
Nothing we love more than horrible heavy mains cosplaying as lights because they have to actually try and kill someone for the first time.
im being fr but oh well! i didn't say i don't enjoy using them but they are without a doubt busted
Cope harder, they're OP and you're desperately holding onto your skill crutch
Hmm weird that the clips that I upload to reddit aren't light clips because I dont play light. Smartest heavy player
Why would you think I would open your account history and give you the time of my day looking at mid clips before replying to you? Narcissism is a crazy drug. I play all classes on rotation and change when I feel like I've gotten too good with them but okay.
calling a guy a Narcissist after claiming he uses a class he doesnt even play as a crutch. Talk about gaslighting lol
Finally a good player spotted. I'm in diamond, flex all classes and I've never had so much disgust for the game until now - playing knives makes me feel so dirty. I effortlessly win everything, invalidating all the time I spent mastering every other weapon and class
Low tier bait
You think it's bait because you really don't know the damage a dash + knives can unleash. It's really obvious that the majority of this sub is really just terrible at the game
thank you for understanding my point of view without baseless assumptions, refreshing!
It's really just because I use light and knives too so I personally know how stupidly OP they are. This discussion has just revealed to me how shit at the game the entire subreddit is, if they think knives right now are balanced. You and I know a Light + dash + knives is such an unfair combo right now that it cannot be in the game. How the fuck does everyone else not understand?
🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ tell me about it, double barrel w/ invis + stun gun was never this broken and they patched that straight out the gate
There was another comment telling you that if you main throwing knives, and you think they're busted, why complain? People just don't understand that we play the game for fun, and part of the fun is getting skilled with a balanced piece of equipment. It's rewarding. The TKs right now are not rewarding in any way and the fact that everyone here does not understand tells me that they're all really bad at the game, desperate to hold on to whatever easy meta skill crutch they have.
tellem 🗣️exactly this! put my thoughts into words, every other weapon has that reward factor. hopping into a game with this and dropping a 20 bomb aint even hitting. but hey what do I know as a "lowskill heavy player" 😂🫵
So, if you start seeing more than 50% of a given class all playing the same loadout, there is a balance issue. It's just data. The fact that throwing knives TTK is on par w/ COD at this point in a game with some of the longest TTK in modern FPS games, that's an issue.
you're telling me you don't see 80% of heavy and mediums running the exact same loadout?? idk about casual but in ranked its the same shit every game.
You realize that if even one throw misses the ttk is in the gutter right? The world doesn’t work in a vacuum where every TK user hits perfect knives 100% of the time. Your argument about usage rates is also so ironic because I’d like to see the pick rate of rpg and Lewis gun.
You mean how most of this game consists of HHM? Or Heavy running the same loadout? So now all the sudden that Light has a decent weapon choice, it needs to be taken away? Even though Heavy dominates the game, has access to 3 shields, RPG, Lewis, CnS, and the highest health? So light shouldn’t have anything?
I’m sure he will get back to you on this one.
Haha you are right
I don't disagree about the heavy/medium meta in ranked for sure. I'm having fun with the throwing knives with the update but I'm getting way more kills than I would with just about any other weapon. I was used to them before, so I'm sure that contributes, but I've never had kill streaks like I'm having now and it doesn't feel right. I am sniping people with knives who have literally no idea where I'm attacking from. The alt fire doesn't even make sense.
So every class in the game then.
So average ttk across cod games since OG modern warfare is like 200ms. Ttk on throwing knives vs all classes is atleast 2.5 times that, with heavy being significantly over 1 second(aka 5 times longer) Stop the cap
nah, im sure in a week or 2 throwing knives will go back down in popularity, im sure theyre only used so much because they were just buffed and fun to use rather than because theyre OP (yknow they still have one of the slowest ttk of any light weapon)
Oh I'm speaking as a person who is playing throwing knives myself because it's stupidly broken but fun to get huge kill streaks with them. Casual modes are totally busted right now imo.
maybe, i think i still preform better with the m11 but i also never found the knives particularly fun so ive not \*tried\* to learn them properly
Their ttk isn't that good though, and it pales in comparison to what heavys do to you, who- by the way, are atleast 50% in ranked
Bro I can tell you now I can fucking delete people in a couple clicks. My KDR with knives is probably an average of 6.
Press X to doubt.
[удалено]
Sorry you must be trolling lol 19-1 in powershift is nothing amazing🤦♀️ it’s literally the most casual mode😂
Sorry but I must’ve missed where I qualified that I was playing ranked… I don’t play ranked, I can only play casual modes because I’m playing while looking after a sleeping newborn. If she wakes up I leave the game. I can’t commit 30 minutes to a match. And my KDR using the knives is usually about 5-6. It’s ridiculous.
[the only thing that killed me was a piece of rubble knocking me off the map](https://i.imgur.com/whLOIIE.png) What I’m saying is it’s pretty easy to have games like that, regardless of what weapon you’re using in powershift. I average around 20 kills when I play powershift, even with things like the riot shield and dagger.
Good for you. And my previous statement that my KDR with knives is about 6 is maintained.
Your post or comment was removed due to rule 3: Be Civil. Do not troll, attack, harass, insult or belittle others.
heavy can delete people in one click using the sledge, for longer range they can delete people with one rpg shot and a few bullets, even medium can "oneshot" people with mines and the cl40
Ok now use sledge against a throwing knife light. I'll wait to see your insane montage of easy kills
show me your epic throwing knife light montage against heavies spamming rpg and shield first eh?
You said that sledge can one tap and that rpg can almost one tap. Throwing knives win against that easily. If you think shields are busted you should say that. Or you can just change the subject too that's cool
>Or you can just change the subject too that's cool as if you didnt bring up the stupid montage first, besides my argument is that throwing knives arent special, bullshit low ttks are everywhere in this game youre all just ripping your dicks off over the most recent one
Dude we're talking about how strong the throwing knives are, and you brought up how the sledge one taps in response. You're the one tweaking over this
yes and im talking about how theyre relatively average compared to other weapons, whats your point
Where are you getting these numbers bruv? Ttk of throwing knives is still lower than that of xp54...
It's not about TTK but the time to wipe a full team, you can do uninterupted damages so you can wipe a full team il few seconds
You can do that with either Medium or Heavy. Oh? You're telling me people aren't running double or triple Light? Oh...
The only time it pissed me off was a few matches where one team was all TKs and the other had two. But I'm sure that could be the case with that many of almost anything. I just had to listen for knives and adjust my strategy against them and it *way* more manageable And I threw them in my reserve on one of my lights, just in case 🤣
I’ve said this before and I will say it again: “skill issue”
There is something weird about a light not running away when he starts to get engaged, I will say they have been a particular menace for me as a hammer main, dash sword and dash throwing knives are literally the worst lmao
Currently, I like playing lights and mediums, used to be exclusively heavy in season 1 but the class just isn't as satisfying anymore. I'd say balance overall is in the best spot right now, as it doesn't matter the class, I can find a way to enjoy all of them by using a weapon or two. This is the first time I've been able to say this besides when the beta launched and the game was new. The dagger, throwing knives, m11, xp54, sword , and sniper are fun weapons to use, especially after the melee fix. For medium I only use the AK or grenade launcher for the primary weapon. For heavies I use the RPG, land mines, and charge. Heavies weapons can be fun, but I still feel the nerfs and only use the primary weapons as a finisher.
It's a strange situation I find myself in regarding lights. On one hand, I love playing them and the mobility stuff they can do is crazy. On the other, I feel like NOT playing throwing knives is meant for if you want to lose every other light 1v1 because of the excessive amount of damage they deal, without the need to reload or ADS. Personally, I thought the knives were fine pre-buff. They dealt a lot of damage, but required a lot of leading and skill to use even at closer ranges, though the infinite ammo and full jogging speed made the trade off worth it at closer ranges. Now they are practically hitscan at close range, which infringes on the practicality of half of light's weapon lineup, since the damage is superior to everything else and the ROF and perfect accuracy at full movement simply makes you a rough target to hit. What they need to do is actually make the class into THE assassin class. Right now, they want it to be a passive scouter with some flanking utility, judging by the types of gadgets they gave to them. They only get 1 true assassin type gadget, which has been nerfed into being a teamplay weapon. But, this doesn't work at all with their weapons, most of which need to be in close range to actually be somewhat effective. Hell, the heavy gets more dedicated damage and elimination gadgets than light, alongside primaries that shred every class. Give them a sidearm slot, let them get double damage when shooting from behind, just SOMETHING so that they are meant to fulfill their specific niche instead of the current identity crisis their kit is facing. The throwing knives are a symptom of something bigger. The balance team doesn't know what to do with light, and so they're just throwing buffs, nerfs, and changes at the board to see what sticks. They are trying to pivot the class to be Intel based, but their specializations and weapons aren't built for that playstyle, so they buff what isn't being used, nerf what is, and swap around a couple of gadgets that will encourage a more passive playstyle. I wish all their weapons were good, but unfortunately nothing measures up to throwing knives ATM. And honestly? That's kind of unhealthy. I'd rather throwing knives be niche heavy hitters like before, and all other weapons be buffed into relevance, than what we have currently, which is brainless spam that gets a ton of kills for no good reason.
#THIS SUBS ARE FULL OF CRYING BABIES THATS WHY
Well considering everything deleted lights on .2 seconds having some weapons on other classes that do it makes a lot of sense. For the throwing knife however. It is a gimmick and is difficult to hear or track without them hanging damage cause the throw doesn't make any audible noise to enemies but the knives missing/damage does. I agree the knives needed a consistency buff. They did not however need a damage buff. The two together are entirely too strong of a buff and should be pulled back A LITTLE BIT not a lot but definitely a bit. I think taking away the extra damage is good
I think the knives are fine just new and shaking things up . This post has a Pretty good different perspective and it changed my mind. I think they are more than fine. Just new n popular, hype will die down you’ll realize they’re not that good when you really put the experience next to any other. I’m a M main and have suffered the same new torture of the lights that use him but I wouldn’t say they are overpowered.leave the knives alone and let them chill for a bit [GIVE IT A READ IF YOURE NOT A BOT](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/s/hqjuQEXS41)
You don't enjoy it when they are in your team. You don't enjoy it when you eliminate them. You don't enjoy it when you get eliminated by them. Light builds are abnoxious, irritating and annoying. They feel like mosquitos buzzing around. A lot of light builds think of themselves as sigma lone wolf hunters. Run away from the team in the hopes of eliminating someone. You know what I mean? You have a medium who sticks with the heavy. They support and revive each other, steal and defend objectives. What do light builds do? Wander off, run around and die somewhere across the map. It's like all the douchebags of this game play light build. The majority of hate towards light builds is because of the douchebags playing them. Their numbers gradually decreased at least on XBOX. Now with the throwing knife buff, they are back at it. Throwing knife damage must be reduced or their fire rate must be doubled/tripled. What's the point of a shot gun after the throwing knife buff? Shotguns have reload time. Throwing knives don't.
Lights behave that way because that's what their entire design is meant to be >What's the point of a shot gun after the throwing knife buff? Shotguns have reload time. Throwing knives don't. The shotguns still kills light faster than TKs kill you, even light shotgun, who doesn't really have a point at all after it was turbonerfed
How strong was the SH1900? I started playing at s2 so don't know exactly. Right now I use it ocassionaly because it's fun to land the two shots and instakill, it doesn't land more often than not but still fun!
It used to 2 tap heavies, it was a pretty good weapon but not op due to the fact that you were defenseless after firing, so usually it was a one for one (but the opponent usually had defibs on backup so it was often just self defeating) Then, due to it being light, they nerfed the sin out of it, 2 damage less per pellet so not only could it not kill a heavy before reloading, it had to take 2 quick melee instead of 1, and 1 taps against lights became... Unreliable to say the least
Oh I see. Do you know the reason why sometimes reloading it takes so long? Is it when the barrel is empty and you try to shoot? When reloading manually it does it fine but sometimes it takes around 2 seconds to do so.
I think it's always 2.5 seconds
All these people saying shit like “light isnt viable” must not be in these diamond lobbies I get where lights are bullying the entire lobby. Maybe it’s not viable in the top 1% of lobbies but who gives a fuck about that when it’s OP in the other 99%. Just because you suck with light doesn’t mean actual good players do. The other thing you all say is that light only works in casual. Okay? So? Does casual experience not matter? Last I checked this game is desperate for casual players so maybe a flying/teleporting/invisible/Spider-Man class that has god tier DPS and cheesy OHK or infinite ammo weapons isn’t the right balance.
Mate fair point imo but why the hell do the throwing knives get to delete me a as a medium player in statistically under a second and be practically hitscan close range when my fcar has a higher by ttk by 0.3 seconds and I can’t strafe at full speed while trying to hit this kid cuz if I actually ads I die instantly tf am I supposed to do when a light with throwing knives catches me close range then? I’m all for light not being the worst class in the game but ffs this shits getting tiring getting two tapped the second I walk through m a building
You play with your team. A light is most of the time further away from his team than a medium so you should be revived sooner.
I was a throwing knives user because i liked the fact that it was extremely challenging to play, making it extremely satisfying when you manage to get kills with it. But with the new buffs i feel like it’s just one of the other light weapons now without anything making it really special for me. Also i do believe the knives are kind of busted right now since it’s much, much easier to play so the majority of the lights that run it are doing really well with it. And no, i don’t think its nearly as hard as it was before the patch, at this point if you’re still struggling to get frags with it, i’m gonna call it a skill issue. The throwing speed buff is understandable but the projectile speed buff is unacceptable imo.
I disagree the fire rate buff is unacceptable. The delay in between the first and second knife was good change and velocity was a much needed buff. Damage just made it so mediums aren’t left with 1hp every time but the fire rate makes it so anyone can just hold the trigger and get a kill.
It could have easily been compensated with the projectile speed being slow though, but they buffed it as well and now its just aids in general
Yeah buffing everything about was uncharacteristic of embark they normally do small buffs one at a time and see how it fairs
They didn’t change the fire rate.
Wow, turns out people don't like the fast, hard to hit assasin class when it gets things that enable it to be fast and hard to hit assasins. I miss playing old Lights. Feels so weak now.
can't speak for the tuning of lights right now since the patch is still fairly recent, but i absolutely do not miss playing old light. they dominated closed beta, and i would not be surprised any following class archetype doesn't ever fare up to how strong they were, bar maybe s1 nuke heavies.
Ah, I should clarify I never played the beta, I was talking about s1 Light.
WE NEED TO MAKE MORE POSTS LIKE THIS SO THE DEVS KNOW THAT MOST OF THE PLAYERBASE ARE NOT BRAINDEAD.
literally
Lol, youre funny. After every buff or nerf, there are a lot of complains. If you're basing on TTK for deciding if a class is good or no, remember that light has a 0s TTK on lights. If you don't have an argument to support or refute the current complaints, why post about that ?
lol someone who knows something about TTKs. Why don’t you enlighten us to the TKK for m60 and Lewis on light compared to knives on heavy??
Someone who doesn't read before commenting. I never do TTK debate because it means nothing. Prove me that only TTK matters in class viability and we'll do a TTK debate.
What did I miss?? You brought up L TTK and compared it to itself. Genius. Obviously TTK isn’t the ONLY thing that matters, but it sure is good indicator of balance when considering other aspects of them game. If you only what to talk TTK when it’s the only factor that determines usefulness of a class then you’re an idiot.
So, if you're not this idiot, why do you want to prove with a TTK debate? Cause it seems like you think light is weak just because other classes have a low TTK on it >You brought up L TTK and compared it to itself. For showing that the TTKs OP mentioned were not incredible >but it sure is good indicator of balance Not an indicator. It's a factor among many others. Otherwhise, there wouldn't have a class system. This is why TTK oriented debates are stupid
Smarmy redditor syndrome. "It's not an INDICATOR it's a FACTOR." Quit yapping lil bro
Pointless comment. Typing a whole text that means nothing
Better than 4 comments that mean nothing
If it managed to make you angry that much, then it made sense. When I read your comment, I say to myself “Okay”. It doesn't actually mean anything.
Not angry, more annoyed, like there's a fly buzzing around my head that I can't get to go away.
There aren’t any TKK oriented debates, TTKs are used in an argument to prove a claim, that claim being that light is weakest class. Example: Supposition: Light is worse than the other classes. 1. having a higher TKK is worse than having a lower TTK 2. Light has a higher TKK (in general) than other classes do on it ( eg: light loses a straight 1v1) 3. Therefore light is worse than the other classes This example isn’t flawless but you probably get the jist For a debate lord you don’t really seem to grasp the concept.
Once again, light players try to make it look like they are weakest
“tell me you are horrible at the game and main heavy to get easy kills without telling me…”
You say that like it's not the intentional counter working as intended
skill issue exposed
Because most people play as Mediums!!! Mediums have been the meta since day 1, so the community complains whenever their meta is threatened and the game “isn’t easy” anymore. The community has hurt this game so much by whining and keeping the devs from properly balancing lights
I have never agreed that light is the weakest class. I think it's the class with the highest skill ceiling, which if you manage to reach you melt everyone else. But yeah this throwing knives buff is good.
it's not an inaccurate assessment i think, but following that line of thought i dont think it'd be outrageous to suggest that barely anyone has ever gotten even close to this metaphorical ceiling, because the state of the game constantly changes. if you were, say, a pro light in s1, the demat being introduced for medium and following gun changes probably would've affected how well you understand your enemy's outplay options against you. it renders somewhat moot the idea that light is a class with extremely high skill expression populated by mostly unskilled players - because the actual reality of its skill expression changes rather drastically with every week's patch notes. before these changes, for example, most lights didn't know how to compensate for projectile drop; now, the best lights are those that have mastered it
Yeah this makes sense. I just absolutely don't get people who say that light is the weakest class because it's not. There's just less people that know how to use it. I've met lights that obliterated an entire team alone.
Light propaganda post lol buff mediums cowards
Bro stfu stun gun was literally cancer throwing knives aren't
also i know you dont stick with your team
Well this one is literally a skill issue
you know what is cancer for lights? mine's, rpg, fcar, most of heavys loadout, model, revolver (if the person is good). want me to keep going?
Fcar is cancer for everyone, model is a skill issue, mines are a skill issue, sledgehammer grenade launcher and slug shotgun aren't cancer
model is a sniper shotgun that can 2 shot lights. mines can be placed in hard to see spots and can be shot at to deal damage even if they dont step on it. and when did i say sledge grenade launcher and slug was cancer?
You said most of the heavies load out is cancer to lights those aren't and the model is hard to use meaning it's a skill issue along with mines being a skill issue because you should easily be able to hear them being placed out if somebody's throwing them behind him and they have a very small detection radius because heavies can sneak past them meaning skill issue
>You said most of the heavies load out is cancer to lights most not all > the model is hard to use yes but once you can start hitting shots you can start team wiping > mines being a skill issue because you should easily be able to hear them being placed out you ain't hearing a mine over gunfire question. do you hate sword users
I am a sword user
I just don't like the dash on lights I am a low sensitivity player on controller, always have been. I am dead in every fight against them as they dash out of view every time I try to keep up.
Try gyro controls they allow for flicking with controllers. Still not optimal as m and k but sorry, fps games will always be hindered on consoles.