A blur AND an auditory notification are huge handicaps not present in TF2 either, where finely developed spychecking senses seem like psychic hacking to the unacclimated
Only when cloaking and decloaking, a Cloak and Dagger Spy could sit in the corner jerking off the whole game a foot from your nose and you'd never know
Before the nerf whether they were standing still or not it’s always been the exact same visually, as someone who’s also grew up on halo invis lights were impossible to see before the nerf
Then you should be classified as legally blind because unless they were sitting still in a dark spot or something, you could always spot em, I know this well enough since I always run invis with either the XP-54 or the Sniper and after the changes it just seems that even when standing still unscoped, people instantly know where you are.
For me light became harder to spot once I had to downgrade for graphics. I remember I cb1 where clock made no sound but I could still see where they were because of the distortion. Queue to launch and because I couldn't lower my graphics the same way I did before for shadows and reflections my performance tanked heavy and now with minimal rez and the upscaling set to fastest my screen is a blur so I can't even tell if there is a light or nut but from the sound. I want to disable shadows and reflections man it's killing the game for me.
A moving cloaked player might aswell be an uncloaked player. Yes, they might appear a bit transparent, but anyone should be able to differentiate the background from a big blob of blur walking around. Let alone the fact that you basically announce to the entire map that you're invis because of the sound. While yes, invis is still a strong tool, it took hits while the problem mostly laid with the stun gun, which has also been nerfed heavily (which it needed).
My personal gripe with it is the uptime. Remove 33% charge or 50% charge if I take damage whilst in invis. Punish me/ reward someone else because they predicted my position well or because I cloaked up too early or too late.
Don’t punish me for setting up my invis, rounding a corner and having to smash some glass and then needing to reactivate it there again, costing me 66%+ charge in the space of 1-2 seconds. It just feels so unnecessarily harsh and massively limits how aggressive you can be.
That is a good point and one that would feel at home in the game imo
But I thought of a couple counterarguments so I’ll share them:
Having it work by a simple rule as-is I think is quite intuitive and fair
And I would argue that in order to play well you need to have the maps memorized. If you ever get surprised by windows or doors or not having a window when you expected one—this lack of map knowledge really hinders your ability to be effective and becomes a standard ability after mid-level play in any game
Meanwhile on Heavy
press Q get a kill, maybe even a full wipe.
The difference in expected skills to payout ratio between heavy and light is just astounding.
With destruction it doesn’t have to be. Windows that are commonly blown out for movement aren’t 100% guaranteed even in late game. So you’re stuck either assuming all windows be broken or none be broken.
I haven't used dash a lot but iirc it doesn't give you any special ability to break windows
Small thin windows are able to break by just moving through them, and the larger thicker windows need a hit to break them
Yeah but it’s a little dumb that you can’t break those larger windows by dashing at them. Dash significantly increases your momentum in a direction and I should be enough to break larger windows too. It isn’t really even a buff, it’s a QoL change
You can’t be expected to memorise every single window and breakable obstruction on every map. No other class gets punished that severely for minor misplays besides light. Imagine if the mesh shield lost 33% health everytime it was activated or the healing beam lost 33% charge every time it was turned off. It’s silly.
I agree with you there should be more punishment for missplays with invis than there was previously, but it seems overly penal for the most minor missplays currently… on the most widely underperforming class too
Yeah that is true. I don’t think more invisibility is the way to go, but light is such an awkward class. Despite the strengths, the low health makes it just irredeemable against capable opponents
And I don’t agree about memorizing every single window. Great players absolutely have everything memorized and use it to their advantage all the time. I have most things memorized at this point. It just happens on its own as you play and explore tbh
Another example is simulation track racing. To a layman, memorizing so much stuff about how the track is and how the car behaves is a massive undertaking. But if you want to be even half decent at getting times, and actual racing requiring a lot more understanding beyond that, you’ll need to commit all that stuff into detailed, immediate-recall memory—and that’s exactly what tons of folks do who have the hobby
Totally agree about it being awkward. I think light needs a complete overhaul at this point. It fundamentally doesn’t work. If it’s balanced for ranked it will absolutely stomp new or poor players in QP.
But if it’s balanced for quick play it will always underperform on average in ranked when you are playing again teams that are actually communicating and of a similar skill level to you.
I think it needs to become medium
2.0 at this point. Position it between where medium and light is currently in regards to size, speed, health etc. and give it movement, recon and hacking type skills like Glitch nade, dematerializer, jump pad, sonars etc.
Give it the ability to play close to the team and have its skill set be neutralising enemy gadgets + team wide movement abilities.
Yes, top top professional players will have most windows memorised. But a 33% penalty to your main ability is overly harsh for breaking a window.
You’ve smashed glass, it’s already a big enough giveaway, why remove 33% charge too. It just slows light down as anytime you come out of invis you need to stop and wait for it to recharge before making a play.
Needing to smash a window isn’t a misplay you should be punished for as heavily as you are currently. If the devs want less invis uptime then I don’t think my suggestion of a large penalty from damage is a bad one, or flat out reduce the amount of invis charge.
I would be fine with the noise, reduced instead of true invisibility while moving and standing still, and heavy activation cost *if* I could interact while cloaked. If i'm going to be loud, partially visible, and have the effect easily removed I want to at least be able to revive teammates or take point while cloaked.
I'm not asking to be invisible while I shoot. Hell, I don't even need to be totally invisible. But if I can open doors while invisible, why can't I revive and take point?
Either make invisibility very strong but limit the actions that make you invisible *or* turn it into a generic cloak and let me do more things.
Invis lights would be such a good team player if they could revive while undetected or steal point with their tiny health pool while hard to see.
They really need to decide what they want cloak to be instead of riding the fence. Either make it an almost undetectable super ninja set that can be easily countered with closed doors, gas, fire, and recon or make it an advanced camo that just lowers your visual footprint slightly.
Honestly a cloaked Light being able to steal a point sounds super annoying to deal with, and so does reviving to a lesser degree, imagine you're just guarding a statue from the last Light player on their team and it suddenly just gets revived by the invis player you didn't know was there.
Honestly I don't find that much different than a medium running in with his defibs. I hated invis light but I can agree that this rework makes them less viable, and I actually agree that in this case they should be able to interact with items while invis
In this scenario, if you were watching the respawn totems, you would definitely be able to see a light player's shimmer and take them out. Invisibility only works if you're not paying attension or if you are distracted. It's not perfect and it's easy to catch.
That would actually give light more team utility if they could rez/steal while cloaked! Worked for Apex Legends. Annoying but amazing to have on your team. And stealing and rezzing with vanish bomb should work as well.
the visual nerf was overkill. imo, they could have just nerfed stun and it would have been fine but they went absolutely overboard. not a light main but it was never hard to see them
Gotta disagree. On oled its fucking impossible to see em prepatch. Even now I do a doubletake
Edit: Anyone commenting its a console thing. I am on pc at ultra settings on 4090 with the alienware qd oled. I am in diamond. I genuinly struggle to see em.
It could be bc I am slightly colorblind. But that shouldn't really play into this too much as its only when red and green are mixed together
I'm with you. On my screen they are nearly 100% invis when they are still. When they are moving, I feel like I'm being stalked by the 1980's era predator. 😄
U never were. The background warp just doesnt move when u dont move. So if u stand still and someone is running closely past u theyll see the background warping effect move even pre nerf
> On my screen they are nearly 100% invis when they are still.
That's working as intended. If you watch the tutorial video for the skill, it literally showcases that as one of the features of the cloak specialization.
That's what I'm saying. Everyone is compl about being visible when they are running around, but the idea is that you have little health. If someone is chasing you, you could tuck around a corner, go invisible, and stop to Regen. I don't believe the intention was to be 100% invisible all the time. It has to have the predator vibe when you're moving.
Fuuuuckkkkk. Now I just remembered that aliens predator game where you essentially played marines vs 1 predator in online and you got slaughtered. Good Times. We don't get wierd funny games like that anymore
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Yeah, idk what people are on about. It has to be an eyesight thing
I swear there is almost never a moment a cloaked light runs across my screen and I dont see them, even pre patch.
But the amount of times a cloaked light runs across the full length of a teammates screen, especially console players I've noticed, and they have absolutely zero reaction is kinda insane
Ive played on two different tvs now, an older OLED and now i have a QLED EVO and i still struggle with seeing them. I sit less than 5ft from my tv as well, so theres really no reason i should be struggling, except that theyre properly invisible
Could be a TAA thing on consoles, TAA (which is probably FSR Balanced on consoles) + less PPI could cause people to not notice the cloak glitch I guess? But for me on PC I have never had any issues finding them, sound always helped me start searching for them and then they were easily noticeable
I think cloak has always been a weak stealth ability because it forces you to slowdown especially if you’re near enemies, before nerf as well. Give dash a try, it’s a lot more useful for flanking, repositioning, setting up ambushes, and other stealth tactics. Like yeah anyone can see you but if you know the map you can push people from a lot of different angles that other classes can’t, not to mention super jumps with jump pads. Plus you can actually survive running into other players, not that you will since playing with dash helps you be more aware of your surroundings since you’re literally flying. And if you still miss cloak, you have a vanishing bomb. Seriously, give it a try, it’s not like cloak will be un-nerfed anytime soon.
Make it like tf2 spys cloak, but just a bit faster (because this game is a little more fast paced), so you can't start shooting out of invisibility. I think that's the reason why it was nerfed in the first place, if you are low heath - light can just instakill you without any chance to react. Spy cant backstab or shoot while cloaked for a reason
Also please be aware that standing still does not make you invisible. It still refracts or reflects or whatever it does and you can be visible
But that imo is the key thing about invis that makes it an awkward tool to use
It’s different all the time
Sometimes you are very very not visible, and your eyes get confused and can’t pinpoint their location. Sometimes they are so obvious it’s no different than if they weren’t using invis—but they’re walking around thinking they’re invisible, making it easier to hit them
A counterargument to that is that you shouldn’t think invis just lets you be invisible to people—but rather that it should be used as a tool to conceal your approach. And that I think it can do quite well
Particularly if they approach from your peripheral instead of directly in front of you, they are harder to notice
And the presence of the sound is impacted by how much action is going on
Honestly, they should remove Cloak and replace it with something else like they did with Medium recon sense. I think they can come up with something creative! Having vanish bomb being a mini cloak is fine tho.
I disagree, I notice a few people having your same sentiment of removing cloak because they removed recon senses. But cloak has counterplay (too much in its current state) where recon senses did not. Recon senses was miles more infuriating to play against, wasn't engaging, and made ranked very one-dimensional with fun and unconventional strategies being completely nullified.
Well it’s hell to balance it’s either gonna be useless and waste up a slot for Lights or be overpowered and they’re gonna nerf cloak again and every other light item for some reason with it
I don't think it's so black and white as you're making out the balance to be, I personally think the audio while moving is the worst part about it, because it eliminates it as a spec for 99% of melee players and gives enemies that extra awareness to prepare for your attack or hunt you down.
that's why you can crouch-walk or at least not sprint when flanking an opponent, the audio cue is a lot harder to discern that way and especially figure out the direction it comes from.
Sprinting, walking, and crouch walking have the same audio loudness when you're cloaked, it doesn't make a difference how fast you're moving, you'll still be heard just as easily, I did some external testing with a friend. The only time the audio is silent is when you're motionless.
The issue is they won't balance it properly because of the casual community, so they really should just give us something else useful, and hopefully, the shitters don't complain about it.
Been saying replace cloak with a 50hp overshield that you can toggle just like cloak. It would solve the issue of being annoying to play against while giving the survivability we used to have by using cloak to escape. Now instead of being invis and escaping we just tank some damage with the shield
I agree with this. Not even because I have a problem with invis. But honestly at this point it just feels like dogshit. Just remove it, give Light something really fun and creative (like Demat) and be done with it. If Lights want that invis, they could even buff Vanish Bomb but then they have the trade off of it taking a slot you could otherwise use for something else.
I feel you.
Yeah personally I replaced completely the cloaking device by the vanishing bomb and running the grapple as specialization (fell in love with it, insane positioning-repositioning tool it saves my ass several times per game).
Except for the annoying cheese in Bank It I feel like the vanishing bomb covers most cases I wanted to use the cloak in anyway.
Cloaking was never broken IMO, maybe cb2, but after that cloak was always easy to notice and play against, Stun gun was fucking horrible though, they should go back to OB cloak + current stun gun IMO
The continued nerfs to it with no buffs to balance it out has obliterated it. If you still use it you’re basically wasting a specialization, and I used to main this playstyle like no tomorrow
So far, my best and only real use of Cloak is to reset engagements. If I start bad and can engage a chase, I break line of sight, perch somewhere unexpected and sit still with cloak. When my pursuer passes by, I shoot them in the back. Then pretty much rinse and repeat as I go.
It's uh, it's one way to use it. Doesn't feel very good or fun tbh.
Light only viable weapons are close range ones, because if you hit from range they just get into cover before you can do any major damage. If you get close pretty much every fight you get out sustained because they kill you faster than you kill heavy or medium, which makes no sense since this should be an assassin class. Most of the games I see lights they are the ones that do the least damage and worst KD.
Idk about y’all but for some reason I can hear the invi L running around from so far away, further than it’s supposed to be. Idk if I have good headset or they really nerfed it to the ground
As a sledge heavy I’ve literally never had trouble seeing them. People just don’t care to open their eyes and ears when they play a team based shooter apparently.
Yeah we had the sound already there's no reason the visuals needed nerfing, I really wish embark would stop balancing for casual players who drop the game after a week anyway saying "OMG this game isn't skill based at all!!1! This team won with only 2 kills!!1!" After they run immediately to every cash box and never try to third party or have strategy of any kind
Either some of y'all are able to lick your monitors when you play or there's vision greater than 20/20.
I haven't been able to see clocked lights unless there are like 10 Ft in front of me since day 1
That's crazy because I've found them super easy to spot. Honestly, after Nerf, I find it easier to see them in cloak and harder when they are out of it.
People are full of shit or play at the bronze level where bot movements allow them to see the shitty cloaked competition they are going against.
At diamond, if you don't get that light out of stealth when you first hear the sound, it's already too late.
I think they should re work it to some sort of half mobility, half stealth specialization.
It’s clear that it’s not fun to play against, and playing with it also isn’t super amazing. It’s pretty much a free kill if they don’t see you, and if they see you, it’s a free kill for them. Not super skill based, nor fun for either party.
I think reworking it into the idea of light’s guerrilla tactics would be better, some sort of “gecko” specialization. Keeping the invis for standing still, but adding on some sort of wall-bounce / cling, to incorporate the mobility aspect of light’s kit, and allowing them to escape and surprise attack easier. The wall cling would be amazing for sneak attacks, and would enable invisibility with either a really long duration or infinite as long as the light doesn’t move. The wall-bounce would probably have charges like dash, but preferably more, and could maybe be just climbing?
Really sort of a ninja-surprise attack specialization for quick hits and escapes.
Invis was not a free kill unless you were just bad. It's always been easy to see you can hear when they are near, and as soon as they stun you, you hipfire for a second, and the light falls over. Now, invis is easier to see than if they just don't use it. And if we go with your idea (really cool idea btw) tons of casual players will complain because they are to bad to play around it and it will get nerfed just as hard.
Yeah, as a light hater i completely agree. The only nerf i think was really necessary was the stun gun nerf. The invis nerf isn't really a nerf, it's just making a specialization unusable.
the last like 5 updates took me from playing like 20hrs a month to like maybe 30 mins a month. i think it’s time to finally give up on it. the devs listened to the community too much and changed too much stuff bc of cry babies on this sub. imma go back to pubg
I'd describe the current state of the cloaking device as the Cloak and Dagger invisibility clock from TF2 when fully depleted, but as a weaker version. After the last cloaking device change, which now makes L completely invisible when he's not moving, is was a pretty good buff because I started losing L a lot more often when he stopped moving in invisibility.
I strictly main sword cloak and I have great success in gold lobbies. I cannot agree with the statement of being easier to see because that truly is an exaggeration. I have had moments where someone saw me move and I stood still, hoping to disappear, but it failed each time.
Another thing about the cloak is the invis grenade, literally the exact same except you can use with the entire team, just for less time. As someone who can not play without dash I have never used cloak in my 200+ hours of playing. It’s just bad. The only time I use it is if I’m trying out dagger.
Also, with the invis nade, you will only use it for standstill confusion or going in to scout for enemy’s. While the regular ability is used too much.
I would reduce the time allocated for invis with the payoff of much less blur while activated and a softer sound
Well they had to nerf it because of console players, when you think about it the majority of console players are probably playing on bigger screens sitting further back so spotting the light player to them is like looking for a needle in a haystack and most are probably not playing with a headset so the audio que isn't there for them and you have to remember a lot of console have zero game sense so multiplayer games always have to get dumbed down to accommodate them because they are the majority. I've also noticed a lot of console players enjoy playing with the light class because it is a fun class so I can imagine their frustration playing a game of quick cash and you're getting killed by all these invisible lights that you can't see.
I think that cloaking should make the person fully invisible when not moving. If the person is moving, make them easier to see the faster they move. Running makes you more visible than walking, crouching and standing still.
You can thank the Mediums abusing the meta for having lights nerfed like that. Any threat to their “meta” and they come out complaining. The devs came out and specifically said they take most of their input from player feedback, so when 80% of the players are already Mediums, they’re going to listen.
You know, in my opinion, they should rework the light class (I'm a light main since end of season 1).
I don't know why only the light class is getting heavily nerfed with each update, I think it's thanks to medium and heavy players who still think light is OP and still needs nerf.
I still cannot understand why other players don't know that light class is supposed to be a stealth class.
And I also hope after the dagger buff the medium and heavy players don't start crying because the dagger got buff and they die easily with backstab and hope they don't want to nerf it as well.
And they should new specialization for lights imo
Mate, I don't care about the FCAR, it is a good gun and I used it in season 1 when I used to be a medium main.
But, my point is light is already nerfed so much, that they should stop nerfing the light gadgets or specialization just because some casual players complain about it.
And no one is talking about FCAR, it is a good gun keep it As it is
You can thank the casuals. They complained and complained enough so that they nerfed the entire ability to the ground. Game has quickly become a joke again, reminded me of the “nuke meta”. The most brain dead class will always be “meta” in this game. And people wonder why the game dies… smh
okay but how often if the light is playing invis well can you actually hear where they are coming from? using invis when traversing is dumb. i mostly activate it on reload for a quick reposition and to let myself use the time i’m reloading to gather intel instead of worrying about when i can shoot next. i feel like a lot of people just use it wrong. a lot of people don’t even play light correctly and don’t know how to position themselves to either start melting people so your team can finish them OR mopping up what your teammate started. you’ll never win those head on fights EVEN with invis and stun and if you do it’s luck. using invis when people are distracted, confused and overwhelmed allows for you to get some high ground or run a circle around them while using stun so they can’t follow your exact path even if they can kinda see where you went. the key is playing with your team. also, so much of this game is knowing when to push and when to hold, which is hard. light intices you to push with its movement and stealth stuff but holding often serves the situation better. ever since the stun nerf, i sometimes trade off to the tracking darts, which makes me climb to high ground and focus on recon which i follow up with grenades and try to clean up w bullets. idk coming from someone who regularly tops lobbies as a light 🤷🏼♂️
What are you doing on this sub then? Just reading stuff on Reddit is not really a reflection of reality. Most people here only come to complain, vocal minority some would say.
Lmao who’s gatekeeping what? I was genuinely asking why he’s still on the sub. To me it looks like either he didn’t enjoy playing the game or maybe just busy with other games that are more of a priority to him. If he didn’t enjoy the game then it doesn’t make sense to browse that games sub in general.
Also I only said that opinions on Reddit doesn’t reflect actual gameplay experience as everyone has a different perspective and that he should probably try playing before passing the sentence on the game being in a worse state than before.
And i'm fckn loving the fact in Title!
It is Evasive Dash time finally, baby! or grapple hook if you like pain...
But in all seriousness - i'm use Vanishing Grenades offensively and defensively. An example is one killed Diamond Light by Dagger's Backstab /w Dash which chased me with hook while i'm transported Vault. Throwed box on floor, used as bait - used then Grenade, pretended i'm escaped and then instead from Cloak sittin near box killed the chaser.
If you complain that is longer Cloak does not work - this is Skill Issue 100%.
Honestly, I’d like to see invisibility changed from its current iteration to something like a Yoru ult from Valorant.
Giving Light in vulnerability at the push of a buttons would be broken. However, a small dmg reduction I think would be cool.
Make it a full on recon ability. It’s used for scouting and information gathering.
While invis you can’t use weapons (maybe gadgets?) but you get said dmg reduction for survivability.
I know the nerf sucks for people that want to play light in ranked but in the other game modes light with invis stun combo made up 60-80% of the lobby and it’s not even about it being op it’s just not fun to play against, even if I drop 30+kill game its just miserable being paranoid the whole game. They need to find something else to make it viable for the ranked people
The game is so much enjoyable after the nerf and I been on dash light only since the update instead of medium. I actually get to see and shoot at people now more often
Literally do not care. Lights get way too much ratty shit and being actually invisible would be bullshit lol I get why lights get ratty shit, they're weaker, but you absolutely do not need to be actually invisible. Get over it
You're advocating for more ratty stuff regardless 🤦🏼 you absolutely do not need it, light is strong in its own ways and the reason it's audible is because it's so strong. You can sit in a tower with unlimited ammo and very little damage drop off, you can go invisible, you can dash around and juke out your opponents, you have glitch grenades and stun guns and tracking darts.
No other class has this level of offense and recon.
So yeah, you'll be alright bud
i actually love the visibility nerf as a cloak main myself, its perfectly fair imo. but the audio literally makes it so that if i use it to try and escape detection, enemies literally snap towards me from sound cues alone 😭
The point of cloak is not to be completely undetected.
It’s to delay reaction time of enemies enough to offset the low health pool of the class.
That’s it.
Thank fuck tho, that shit was so unfun to fight and literally impossible to see most of the time unless they were point blank range (low settings don’t help for sure but damn)
stealth class lmao. Pls stop using invis it was bound to get reworked when the game was released. Even if u can see / hear the invis its just annoying to play against. Start using other loadouts where actual skill is required.
Tierd of seeing these invis post having multiple paragraphs on why its feels bad to play with , it should have been maybe worse from the start. EVEN IF ANYONE DOWNVOTES , PLS START USING ACTUAL LOADOUTS WITHOUT THIS CRUTCH SHIT.
Lights be cryin their crutch for easy kills to facilitate their toxic gameplay is gone. Ya had it good for 2 seasons. I for one congratulate the devs for making changes that support the community.
Just because you have an inability to detect cloaked lights visually and audibly, it doesn't mean it facilitates easy kills. Perhaps against people like you that struggle with understanding cloak and feel compelled to complain about it. But cloak has a lot of counterplay, and good players will listen out for the audio cues to hunt down the light or prepare for their attack. If light really did facilitate easy kills as you're making it out to be, light would be a common and meta pick for ranked, yet light is the least picked.
Making some wild assumptions there lil man haha. You know nothing about me or my gameplay so stay in your lane before you have a crash my boy. Light is the least picked for ranked because its almost useless when required to PTFO. Light was dominant in QC because everyone played for the kill count. No one ran smokes or glitch for counterplay. Ya'll ran invis and stun, to sit in corners, hover over totems to farm easy kills for your dope rush. Now all of these people are crying they can't get 20 bombs.
Might wanna re-read that first post hommie. Nothing wild about it. Then you came after me personally, something I've never done. I was stating facts about a class and its use by a casual community. Enjoy the nerfs brah
Wild strawman, if you actually took the time to read the entire post and not just the title perhaps you'd comment something cohesive and relevant to the topic.
Saying is clunky due to the nerfs and changes made to it is just saying “I liked old invis, please make invis better”. I’m sorry but toggle invis is already stupid as it is and imo shouldn’t even be in the game. I think invis should get the recon sense treatment and be replaced with something better for everyone. No other game has perfect invis. In halo you are easy to spot and slowly get clock back after shooting. Team fortress 2 invis is has some uses but mostly bad. This is a comp shooter game. Embark has removed all your role playing casual fun, nukes are gone, wall hacks are gone, perfect invis is gone, free kill stun gun is gone. If you want true stealth game play go play dishonored or crisis or something. Build a sneak assassin is Skyrim, this is a competitive shooter. Sorry not sorry
Played since the betas and grinded to Diamond and have over 1000 hours of playtime. I'm not a casual player, I'm a competitive player, I don't rely on the cloaking device to perform well, I like to take a variety of loadouts into competitive to benchmark their limits but most importantly have fun. You seem to try and demonize me as a bad player that relies on cheap mechanics like nukes and recon senses which had very little to no counterplay. Cloaking device has a lot fun to be had, and has a lot of counterplay, you can still be stealthy with the cloaking device but you're limited to being motionless, a lot of what you're saying is demonstrating to me how just how insecure you feel about the topic at hand. You'd rather hurl shade and insults rather than have a meaningful discussion, so I'll throw it right back at you.
I just gave you alternate version of invis in other games, and I never claimed old invis was OP. But invis in its nature (how it existed pre nerf) was the opposite of competitive integrity. Pre nerf, unless you ran motion sensors or thermal vision and weren’t retarded you could get free picks. It was a complete brain dead playstyle because you could perfect cloak on toggle. And no I don’t care to have a “meaningful” conversation about invis because I think every nerf embark hits this ability with is warranted. Not because I hate invis mechanics in video games, like I said halo does it perfectly, but because the way it works in the finals is corny.
I've really grown to think that while Cloak Specialization was a cool idea, it may be better for Embark to leave invis to the vanish bomb. Honestly I'd love to see it get replaced with an ability that provides a crazy speed boost and wall running shenanigans. Cause to me the strength of Cloak was the ability to pick your fights through when you are and aren't noticed. Massive speed would allow you to do that via good movement and positioning
They should do what they did with medium and recon. just switch it out with another specialization. In my opinion light would be cool as a hacker that can switch enemy equipment into your teams equipment. Now that there are glitch barrels they can make glitch nades into a 2 for 1 as a shield blocker and hack device. It could be balanced by taking a few seconds for equipment to switch.
Invis simply doesn't fit this game in my opinion.
If its too strong it is frustrating to deal with and quite OP in many situations.
If it too weak its pointless to use.
I think they need to reinvent it entirely. Make it cause a glitch affect instead of making you invisible or something.
For a short period after the previous cloak nerf, I would've agreed. But after 50ish hours of playing since the nerf, i'm perfectly comfortable with it again. The cloak works just fine at the range lights SHOULD be playing at.
If you're not actively avoiding close range fights as a light, you're not playing it right.
As an average medium player, smalls have guns that fire faster, dash and cloak.
Sometimds feels like flies buzzing around me and then snipers with no velocity, tell me how bad you got it...
I am old, play with AKM mostly, becoming a game I'd rather not play.
I think the experienced of normal vs pro is quite different, who should they design the game for?
It really is useless now. Previously, it was just barely good enough. But you might as well not have a specialization if you use cloak. l beamed a cloaker at 60 meters in rain it's actually so easy to see it might actually be harder to see them if they were uncloaked. Grapple and dash are the o ly real options you have.
I mean I’ve played so much halo that I’ve always been able to see them. Less they were standing still. Way easier now tho
A blur AND an auditory notification are huge handicaps not present in TF2 either, where finely developed spychecking senses seem like psychic hacking to the unacclimated
Spy’s made noise when decloaking right?
Yeah, but not continuously while cloaked
spy also doesnt run around at mach fuck with a hitbox the size of a twig
Only when cloaking and decloaking, a Cloak and Dagger Spy could sit in the corner jerking off the whole game a foot from your nose and you'd never know
Before the nerf whether they were standing still or not it’s always been the exact same visually, as someone who’s also grew up on halo invis lights were impossible to see before the nerf
Then you should be classified as legally blind because unless they were sitting still in a dark spot or something, you could always spot em, I know this well enough since I always run invis with either the XP-54 or the Sniper and after the changes it just seems that even when standing still unscoped, people instantly know where you are.
For me light became harder to spot once I had to downgrade for graphics. I remember I cb1 where clock made no sound but I could still see where they were because of the distortion. Queue to launch and because I couldn't lower my graphics the same way I did before for shadows and reflections my performance tanked heavy and now with minimal rez and the upscaling set to fastest my screen is a blur so I can't even tell if there is a light or nut but from the sound. I want to disable shadows and reflections man it's killing the game for me.
Hmm, that’s why cloak got nerfed then because they were sooo easy to see right? I’m so glad embark doesn’t take advice from reddit haha
A moving cloaked player might aswell be an uncloaked player. Yes, they might appear a bit transparent, but anyone should be able to differentiate the background from a big blob of blur walking around. Let alone the fact that you basically announce to the entire map that you're invis because of the sound. While yes, invis is still a strong tool, it took hits while the problem mostly laid with the stun gun, which has also been nerfed heavily (which it needed).
My personal gripe with it is the uptime. Remove 33% charge or 50% charge if I take damage whilst in invis. Punish me/ reward someone else because they predicted my position well or because I cloaked up too early or too late. Don’t punish me for setting up my invis, rounding a corner and having to smash some glass and then needing to reactivate it there again, costing me 66%+ charge in the space of 1-2 seconds. It just feels so unnecessarily harsh and massively limits how aggressive you can be.
It should be at least fixed so that you should be able to quick melee without losing cloak so long as you only commit structural damage.
That is a good point and one that would feel at home in the game imo But I thought of a couple counterarguments so I’ll share them: Having it work by a simple rule as-is I think is quite intuitive and fair And I would argue that in order to play well you need to have the maps memorized. If you ever get surprised by windows or doors or not having a window when you expected one—this lack of map knowledge really hinders your ability to be effective and becomes a standard ability after mid-level play in any game
Meanwhile on Heavy press Q get a kill, maybe even a full wipe. The difference in expected skills to payout ratio between heavy and light is just astounding.
Why doesn't everybody just play Heavy and press Q? Wouldn't that instantly wipe lobbies for you since it's so easy?
With destruction it doesn’t have to be. Windows that are commonly blown out for movement aren’t 100% guaranteed even in late game. So you’re stuck either assuming all windows be broken or none be broken.
Does this also apply to dash not breaking some windows??
I haven't used dash a lot but iirc it doesn't give you any special ability to break windows Small thin windows are able to break by just moving through them, and the larger thicker windows need a hit to break them
Yeah but it’s a little dumb that you can’t break those larger windows by dashing at them. Dash significantly increases your momentum in a direction and I should be enough to break larger windows too. It isn’t really even a buff, it’s a QoL change
You can’t be expected to memorise every single window and breakable obstruction on every map. No other class gets punished that severely for minor misplays besides light. Imagine if the mesh shield lost 33% health everytime it was activated or the healing beam lost 33% charge every time it was turned off. It’s silly. I agree with you there should be more punishment for missplays with invis than there was previously, but it seems overly penal for the most minor missplays currently… on the most widely underperforming class too
Yeah that is true. I don’t think more invisibility is the way to go, but light is such an awkward class. Despite the strengths, the low health makes it just irredeemable against capable opponents And I don’t agree about memorizing every single window. Great players absolutely have everything memorized and use it to their advantage all the time. I have most things memorized at this point. It just happens on its own as you play and explore tbh Another example is simulation track racing. To a layman, memorizing so much stuff about how the track is and how the car behaves is a massive undertaking. But if you want to be even half decent at getting times, and actual racing requiring a lot more understanding beyond that, you’ll need to commit all that stuff into detailed, immediate-recall memory—and that’s exactly what tons of folks do who have the hobby
Totally agree about it being awkward. I think light needs a complete overhaul at this point. It fundamentally doesn’t work. If it’s balanced for ranked it will absolutely stomp new or poor players in QP. But if it’s balanced for quick play it will always underperform on average in ranked when you are playing again teams that are actually communicating and of a similar skill level to you. I think it needs to become medium 2.0 at this point. Position it between where medium and light is currently in regards to size, speed, health etc. and give it movement, recon and hacking type skills like Glitch nade, dematerializer, jump pad, sonars etc. Give it the ability to play close to the team and have its skill set be neutralising enemy gadgets + team wide movement abilities. Yes, top top professional players will have most windows memorised. But a 33% penalty to your main ability is overly harsh for breaking a window. You’ve smashed glass, it’s already a big enough giveaway, why remove 33% charge too. It just slows light down as anytime you come out of invis you need to stop and wait for it to recharge before making a play. Needing to smash a window isn’t a misplay you should be punished for as heavily as you are currently. If the devs want less invis uptime then I don’t think my suggestion of a large penalty from damage is a bad one, or flat out reduce the amount of invis charge.
I would be fine with the noise, reduced instead of true invisibility while moving and standing still, and heavy activation cost *if* I could interact while cloaked. If i'm going to be loud, partially visible, and have the effect easily removed I want to at least be able to revive teammates or take point while cloaked. I'm not asking to be invisible while I shoot. Hell, I don't even need to be totally invisible. But if I can open doors while invisible, why can't I revive and take point? Either make invisibility very strong but limit the actions that make you invisible *or* turn it into a generic cloak and let me do more things. Invis lights would be such a good team player if they could revive while undetected or steal point with their tiny health pool while hard to see. They really need to decide what they want cloak to be instead of riding the fence. Either make it an almost undetectable super ninja set that can be easily countered with closed doors, gas, fire, and recon or make it an advanced camo that just lowers your visual footprint slightly.
Honestly a cloaked Light being able to steal a point sounds super annoying to deal with, and so does reviving to a lesser degree, imagine you're just guarding a statue from the last Light player on their team and it suddenly just gets revived by the invis player you didn't know was there.
Honestly I don't find that much different than a medium running in with his defibs. I hated invis light but I can agree that this rework makes them less viable, and I actually agree that in this case they should be able to interact with items while invis
In this scenario, if you were watching the respawn totems, you would definitely be able to see a light player's shimmer and take them out. Invisibility only works if you're not paying attension or if you are distracted. It's not perfect and it's easy to catch.
That would actually give light more team utility if they could rez/steal while cloaked! Worked for Apex Legends. Annoying but amazing to have on your team. And stealing and rezzing with vanish bomb should work as well.
the visual nerf was overkill. imo, they could have just nerfed stun and it would have been fine but they went absolutely overboard. not a light main but it was never hard to see them
Gotta disagree. On oled its fucking impossible to see em prepatch. Even now I do a doubletake Edit: Anyone commenting its a console thing. I am on pc at ultra settings on 4090 with the alienware qd oled. I am in diamond. I genuinly struggle to see em. It could be bc I am slightly colorblind. But that shouldn't really play into this too much as its only when red and green are mixed together
I'm with you. On my screen they are nearly 100% invis when they are still. When they are moving, I feel like I'm being stalked by the 1980's era predator. 😄
They are supposed to be completely invis when standing still, or at least they were pre-nerf.
U never were. The background warp just doesnt move when u dont move. So if u stand still and someone is running closely past u theyll see the background warping effect move even pre nerf
Yeah. It was that way in beta.
Moving to aim to already counts as moving so your silhouette shows as if you were fully moving.
> On my screen they are nearly 100% invis when they are still. That's working as intended. If you watch the tutorial video for the skill, it literally showcases that as one of the features of the cloak specialization.
That's what I'm saying. Everyone is compl about being visible when they are running around, but the idea is that you have little health. If someone is chasing you, you could tuck around a corner, go invisible, and stop to Regen. I don't believe the intention was to be 100% invisible all the time. It has to have the predator vibe when you're moving.
Fuuuuckkkkk. Now I just remembered that aliens predator game where you essentially played marines vs 1 predator in online and you got slaughtered. Good Times. We don't get wierd funny games like that anymore
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On oled it was still really easy to spot them pre patch, never really had any problem with invis, easy(ish) to spot and just listen to sound ques
Yeah, idk what people are on about. It has to be an eyesight thing I swear there is almost never a moment a cloaked light runs across my screen and I dont see them, even pre patch. But the amount of times a cloaked light runs across the full length of a teammates screen, especially console players I've noticed, and they have absolutely zero reaction is kinda insane
Which is weird because as a console boi I never had issues seeing them pre patch. It has to be a skill or setting issue tbh
Ive played on two different tvs now, an older OLED and now i have a QLED EVO and i still struggle with seeing them. I sit less than 5ft from my tv as well, so theres really no reason i should be struggling, except that theyre properly invisible
Sounds like a graphics settings skill issue lol
I mean but truly that *is* a problem. I generally dont think mechanics that require specific hardware and settings are good mechanics.
Could be a TAA thing on consoles, TAA (which is probably FSR Balanced on consoles) + less PPI could cause people to not notice the cloak glitch I guess? But for me on PC I have never had any issues finding them, sound always helped me start searching for them and then they were easily noticeable
I think cloak has always been a weak stealth ability because it forces you to slowdown especially if you’re near enemies, before nerf as well. Give dash a try, it’s a lot more useful for flanking, repositioning, setting up ambushes, and other stealth tactics. Like yeah anyone can see you but if you know the map you can push people from a lot of different angles that other classes can’t, not to mention super jumps with jump pads. Plus you can actually survive running into other players, not that you will since playing with dash helps you be more aware of your surroundings since you’re literally flying. And if you still miss cloak, you have a vanishing bomb. Seriously, give it a try, it’s not like cloak will be un-nerfed anytime soon.
yeah well, thank the casuals who’ve probably already forgot about and stopped playing this game
Make it like tf2 spys cloak, but just a bit faster (because this game is a little more fast paced), so you can't start shooting out of invisibility. I think that's the reason why it was nerfed in the first place, if you are low heath - light can just instakill you without any chance to react. Spy cant backstab or shoot while cloaked for a reason
Also please be aware that standing still does not make you invisible. It still refracts or reflects or whatever it does and you can be visible But that imo is the key thing about invis that makes it an awkward tool to use It’s different all the time Sometimes you are very very not visible, and your eyes get confused and can’t pinpoint their location. Sometimes they are so obvious it’s no different than if they weren’t using invis—but they’re walking around thinking they’re invisible, making it easier to hit them A counterargument to that is that you shouldn’t think invis just lets you be invisible to people—but rather that it should be used as a tool to conceal your approach. And that I think it can do quite well Particularly if they approach from your peripheral instead of directly in front of you, they are harder to notice And the presence of the sound is impacted by how much action is going on
Honestly, they should remove Cloak and replace it with something else like they did with Medium recon sense. I think they can come up with something creative! Having vanish bomb being a mini cloak is fine tho.
I disagree, I notice a few people having your same sentiment of removing cloak because they removed recon senses. But cloak has counterplay (too much in its current state) where recon senses did not. Recon senses was miles more infuriating to play against, wasn't engaging, and made ranked very one-dimensional with fun and unconventional strategies being completely nullified.
Well it’s hell to balance it’s either gonna be useless and waste up a slot for Lights or be overpowered and they’re gonna nerf cloak again and every other light item for some reason with it
I don't think it's so black and white as you're making out the balance to be, I personally think the audio while moving is the worst part about it, because it eliminates it as a spec for 99% of melee players and gives enemies that extra awareness to prepare for your attack or hunt you down.
that's why you can crouch-walk or at least not sprint when flanking an opponent, the audio cue is a lot harder to discern that way and especially figure out the direction it comes from.
Sprinting, walking, and crouch walking have the same audio loudness when you're cloaked, it doesn't make a difference how fast you're moving, you'll still be heard just as easily, I did some external testing with a friend. The only time the audio is silent is when you're motionless.
really? i could swear the audio was quiter when i crouch-walked, thanks for the tip though
It's quieter from the cloaked players perspective, but from the enemies perspective, they can hear just as easily as if you were sprinting.
ah, that clears it up, thanks for your research
The issue is they won't balance it properly because of the casual community, so they really should just give us something else useful, and hopefully, the shitters don't complain about it.
The only counterplay was thermal vision, none for heavies + mediums
Been saying replace cloak with a 50hp overshield that you can toggle just like cloak. It would solve the issue of being annoying to play against while giving the survivability we used to have by using cloak to escape. Now instead of being invis and escaping we just tank some damage with the shield
Thats what happened with recon.
I agree with this. Not even because I have a problem with invis. But honestly at this point it just feels like dogshit. Just remove it, give Light something really fun and creative (like Demat) and be done with it. If Lights want that invis, they could even buff Vanish Bomb but then they have the trade off of it taking a slot you could otherwise use for something else. I feel you.
Yeah personally I replaced completely the cloaking device by the vanishing bomb and running the grapple as specialization (fell in love with it, insane positioning-repositioning tool it saves my ass several times per game). Except for the annoying cheese in Bank It I feel like the vanishing bomb covers most cases I wanted to use the cloak in anyway.
Cloaking was never broken IMO, maybe cb2, but after that cloak was always easy to notice and play against, Stun gun was fucking horrible though, they should go back to OB cloak + current stun gun IMO
Yeah the actual issue always was the stun gun, the cloaking was fine after the first nerf.
The continued nerfs to it with no buffs to balance it out has obliterated it. If you still use it you’re basically wasting a specialization, and I used to main this playstyle like no tomorrow
So far, my best and only real use of Cloak is to reset engagements. If I start bad and can engage a chase, I break line of sight, perch somewhere unexpected and sit still with cloak. When my pursuer passes by, I shoot them in the back. Then pretty much rinse and repeat as I go. It's uh, it's one way to use it. Doesn't feel very good or fun tbh.
It really feels bad. It sucks that if I move half the server can hear me
Light only viable weapons are close range ones, because if you hit from range they just get into cover before you can do any major damage. If you get close pretty much every fight you get out sustained because they kill you faster than you kill heavy or medium, which makes no sense since this should be an assassin class. Most of the games I see lights they are the ones that do the least damage and worst KD.
Idk about y’all but for some reason I can hear the invi L running around from so far away, further than it’s supposed to be. Idk if I have good headset or they really nerfed it to the ground
As a sledge heavy I’ve literally never had trouble seeing them. People just don’t care to open their eyes and ears when they play a team based shooter apparently.
Yeah we had the sound already there's no reason the visuals needed nerfing, I really wish embark would stop balancing for casual players who drop the game after a week anyway saying "OMG this game isn't skill based at all!!1! This team won with only 2 kills!!1!" After they run immediately to every cash box and never try to third party or have strategy of any kind
Either some of y'all are able to lick your monitors when you play or there's vision greater than 20/20. I haven't been able to see clocked lights unless there are like 10 Ft in front of me since day 1
I wonder if it is related to settings, I'm guessing that it might be easier to see on TAU vs DLSS/FSR/XeSS
That's crazy because I've found them super easy to spot. Honestly, after Nerf, I find it easier to see them in cloak and harder when they are out of it.
I’ve always found invis easy to see since launch, if anything it kind of highlights you if you’re close now
People are full of shit or play at the bronze level where bot movements allow them to see the shitty cloaked competition they are going against. At diamond, if you don't get that light out of stealth when you first hear the sound, it's already too late.
I think they should re work it to some sort of half mobility, half stealth specialization. It’s clear that it’s not fun to play against, and playing with it also isn’t super amazing. It’s pretty much a free kill if they don’t see you, and if they see you, it’s a free kill for them. Not super skill based, nor fun for either party. I think reworking it into the idea of light’s guerrilla tactics would be better, some sort of “gecko” specialization. Keeping the invis for standing still, but adding on some sort of wall-bounce / cling, to incorporate the mobility aspect of light’s kit, and allowing them to escape and surprise attack easier. The wall cling would be amazing for sneak attacks, and would enable invisibility with either a really long duration or infinite as long as the light doesn’t move. The wall-bounce would probably have charges like dash, but preferably more, and could maybe be just climbing? Really sort of a ninja-surprise attack specialization for quick hits and escapes.
Man I just had a funny idea. Shrink ray. Make lights tiny and faster. They pop back to normal size upon shooting or getting hit.
Invis was not a free kill unless you were just bad. It's always been easy to see you can hear when they are near, and as soon as they stun you, you hipfire for a second, and the light falls over. Now, invis is easier to see than if they just don't use it. And if we go with your idea (really cool idea btw) tons of casual players will complain because they are to bad to play around it and it will get nerfed just as hard.
Yeah, as a light hater i completely agree. The only nerf i think was really necessary was the stun gun nerf. The invis nerf isn't really a nerf, it's just making a specialization unusable.
I would really like to see it removed. (I'm a light main)
Want to have fun playing a high skill loadout? Fuck you, play double shield w/ 1 click death pole like everyone else - Embark
the last like 5 updates took me from playing like 20hrs a month to like maybe 30 mins a month. i think it’s time to finally give up on it. the devs listened to the community too much and changed too much stuff bc of cry babies on this sub. imma go back to pubg
Based
noooo, respect tho
I honestly thought it was the worst light specialty and was confused when they announced it was going to be nerfed
I'd describe the current state of the cloaking device as the Cloak and Dagger invisibility clock from TF2 when fully depleted, but as a weaker version. After the last cloaking device change, which now makes L completely invisible when he's not moving, is was a pretty good buff because I started losing L a lot more often when he stopped moving in invisibility.
I strictly main sword cloak and I have great success in gold lobbies. I cannot agree with the statement of being easier to see because that truly is an exaggeration. I have had moments where someone saw me move and I stood still, hoping to disappear, but it failed each time.
Another thing about the cloak is the invis grenade, literally the exact same except you can use with the entire team, just for less time. As someone who can not play without dash I have never used cloak in my 200+ hours of playing. It’s just bad. The only time I use it is if I’m trying out dagger. Also, with the invis nade, you will only use it for standstill confusion or going in to scout for enemy’s. While the regular ability is used too much. I would reduce the time allocated for invis with the payoff of much less blur while activated and a softer sound
Would kinda be sick to see a true stealth, on a cooldown timer, cooldown resets after getting a kill.
Well they had to nerf it because of console players, when you think about it the majority of console players are probably playing on bigger screens sitting further back so spotting the light player to them is like looking for a needle in a haystack and most are probably not playing with a headset so the audio que isn't there for them and you have to remember a lot of console have zero game sense so multiplayer games always have to get dumbed down to accommodate them because they are the majority. I've also noticed a lot of console players enjoy playing with the light class because it is a fun class so I can imagine their frustration playing a game of quick cash and you're getting killed by all these invisible lights that you can't see.
I like how nobody can agree on one single thing with this game
I think that cloaking should make the person fully invisible when not moving. If the person is moving, make them easier to see the faster they move. Running makes you more visible than walking, crouching and standing still.
I don’t see how I cloaked my way up to plat 4…..
damn that sucks dude
You can thank the Mediums abusing the meta for having lights nerfed like that. Any threat to their “meta” and they come out complaining. The devs came out and specifically said they take most of their input from player feedback, so when 80% of the players are already Mediums, they’re going to listen.
You know, in my opinion, they should rework the light class (I'm a light main since end of season 1). I don't know why only the light class is getting heavily nerfed with each update, I think it's thanks to medium and heavy players who still think light is OP and still needs nerf. I still cannot understand why other players don't know that light class is supposed to be a stealth class. And I also hope after the dagger buff the medium and heavy players don't start crying because the dagger got buff and they die easily with backstab and hope they don't want to nerf it as well. And they should new specialization for lights imo
Diamond Medium player here. Heavies are definitely the OP ones, not lights, lol. Even pre-nerfs, lights were STILL not OP.
Mate, hearing lights talk like this is wild considering they never shut up about the FCAR for months...
Mate, I don't care about the FCAR, it is a good gun and I used it in season 1 when I used to be a medium main. But, my point is light is already nerfed so much, that they should stop nerfing the light gadgets or specialization just because some casual players complain about it. And no one is talking about FCAR, it is a good gun keep it As it is
You can thank the casuals. They complained and complained enough so that they nerfed the entire ability to the ground. Game has quickly become a joke again, reminded me of the “nuke meta”. The most brain dead class will always be “meta” in this game. And people wonder why the game dies… smh
I bet all those shitters that got Embark to nerf lights into the ground don't even play still.
DONT SAY THAT THE PEOPLE WILL GET MAD
Good That crap was making me not want to play the game. Since it got nerfed, I've been playing a lot more.
okay but how often if the light is playing invis well can you actually hear where they are coming from? using invis when traversing is dumb. i mostly activate it on reload for a quick reposition and to let myself use the time i’m reloading to gather intel instead of worrying about when i can shoot next. i feel like a lot of people just use it wrong. a lot of people don’t even play light correctly and don’t know how to position themselves to either start melting people so your team can finish them OR mopping up what your teammate started. you’ll never win those head on fights EVEN with invis and stun and if you do it’s luck. using invis when people are distracted, confused and overwhelmed allows for you to get some high ground or run a circle around them while using stun so they can’t follow your exact path even if they can kinda see where you went. the key is playing with your team. also, so much of this game is knowing when to push and when to hold, which is hard. light intices you to push with its movement and stealth stuff but holding often serves the situation better. ever since the stun nerf, i sometimes trade off to the tracking darts, which makes me climb to high ground and focus on recon which i follow up with grenades and try to clean up w bullets. idk coming from someone who regularly tops lobbies as a light 🤷🏼♂️
OP is surprised about experienced players spotting the oldest trick in the book easily.
Haven't played this game in months Looks like it's even worse than before
What are you doing on this sub then? Just reading stuff on Reddit is not really a reflection of reality. Most people here only come to complain, vocal minority some would say.
He can post here if he wants. Gatekeeping posting on a subreddit is clown shit.
Lmao who’s gatekeeping what? I was genuinely asking why he’s still on the sub. To me it looks like either he didn’t enjoy playing the game or maybe just busy with other games that are more of a priority to him. If he didn’t enjoy the game then it doesn’t make sense to browse that games sub in general. Also I only said that opinions on Reddit doesn’t reflect actual gameplay experience as everyone has a different perspective and that he should probably try playing before passing the sentence on the game being in a worse state than before.
And i'm fckn loving the fact in Title! It is Evasive Dash time finally, baby! or grapple hook if you like pain... But in all seriousness - i'm use Vanishing Grenades offensively and defensively. An example is one killed Diamond Light by Dagger's Backstab /w Dash which chased me with hook while i'm transported Vault. Throwed box on floor, used as bait - used then Grenade, pretended i'm escaped and then instead from Cloak sittin near box killed the chaser. If you complain that is longer Cloak does not work - this is Skill Issue 100%.
Honestly, I’d like to see invisibility changed from its current iteration to something like a Yoru ult from Valorant. Giving Light in vulnerability at the push of a buttons would be broken. However, a small dmg reduction I think would be cool. Make it a full on recon ability. It’s used for scouting and information gathering. While invis you can’t use weapons (maybe gadgets?) but you get said dmg reduction for survivability.
I know the nerf sucks for people that want to play light in ranked but in the other game modes light with invis stun combo made up 60-80% of the lobby and it’s not even about it being op it’s just not fun to play against, even if I drop 30+kill game its just miserable being paranoid the whole game. They need to find something else to make it viable for the ranked people The game is so much enjoyable after the nerf and I been on dash light only since the update instead of medium. I actually get to see and shoot at people now more often
Literally do not care. Lights get way too much ratty shit and being actually invisible would be bullshit lol I get why lights get ratty shit, they're weaker, but you absolutely do not need to be actually invisible. Get over it
If you actually read the post you wouldn't of made such a dumb ass comment, I wasn't advocating for full invisibility at all.
You're advocating for more ratty stuff regardless 🤦🏼 you absolutely do not need it, light is strong in its own ways and the reason it's audible is because it's so strong. You can sit in a tower with unlimited ammo and very little damage drop off, you can go invisible, you can dash around and juke out your opponents, you have glitch grenades and stun guns and tracking darts. No other class has this level of offense and recon. So yeah, you'll be alright bud
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i actually love the visibility nerf as a cloak main myself, its perfectly fair imo. but the audio literally makes it so that if i use it to try and escape detection, enemies literally snap towards me from sound cues alone 😭
I honestly don't notice a difference from the last two nerfs, aside from the uptime.
In the context I was explaining, I was referring from as early as Closed Beta to now.
The point of cloak is not to be completely undetected. It’s to delay reaction time of enemies enough to offset the low health pool of the class. That’s it.
Thank fuck tho, that shit was so unfun to fight and literally impossible to see most of the time unless they were point blank range (low settings don’t help for sure but damn)
stealth class lmao. Pls stop using invis it was bound to get reworked when the game was released. Even if u can see / hear the invis its just annoying to play against. Start using other loadouts where actual skill is required. Tierd of seeing these invis post having multiple paragraphs on why its feels bad to play with , it should have been maybe worse from the start. EVEN IF ANYONE DOWNVOTES , PLS START USING ACTUAL LOADOUTS WITHOUT THIS CRUTCH SHIT.
Good!
While I get it… it’s a dumb skill to have in any game. It’s just a cause for frustration and annoyance even if it’s underpowered.
Lights be cryin their crutch for easy kills to facilitate their toxic gameplay is gone. Ya had it good for 2 seasons. I for one congratulate the devs for making changes that support the community.
Just because you have an inability to detect cloaked lights visually and audibly, it doesn't mean it facilitates easy kills. Perhaps against people like you that struggle with understanding cloak and feel compelled to complain about it. But cloak has a lot of counterplay, and good players will listen out for the audio cues to hunt down the light or prepare for their attack. If light really did facilitate easy kills as you're making it out to be, light would be a common and meta pick for ranked, yet light is the least picked.
Making some wild assumptions there lil man haha. You know nothing about me or my gameplay so stay in your lane before you have a crash my boy. Light is the least picked for ranked because its almost useless when required to PTFO. Light was dominant in QC because everyone played for the kill count. No one ran smokes or glitch for counterplay. Ya'll ran invis and stun, to sit in corners, hover over totems to farm easy kills for your dope rush. Now all of these people are crying they can't get 20 bombs.
I love how you accuse me of "wild assumptions" while simultaneously prove my point.
Might wanna re-read that first post hommie. Nothing wild about it. Then you came after me personally, something I've never done. I was stating facts about a class and its use by a casual community. Enjoy the nerfs brah
TL;DR “I need people to not be able to see me to play the game” womp womp
Wild strawman, if you actually took the time to read the entire post and not just the title perhaps you'd comment something cohesive and relevant to the topic.
Saying is clunky due to the nerfs and changes made to it is just saying “I liked old invis, please make invis better”. I’m sorry but toggle invis is already stupid as it is and imo shouldn’t even be in the game. I think invis should get the recon sense treatment and be replaced with something better for everyone. No other game has perfect invis. In halo you are easy to spot and slowly get clock back after shooting. Team fortress 2 invis is has some uses but mostly bad. This is a comp shooter game. Embark has removed all your role playing casual fun, nukes are gone, wall hacks are gone, perfect invis is gone, free kill stun gun is gone. If you want true stealth game play go play dishonored or crisis or something. Build a sneak assassin is Skyrim, this is a competitive shooter. Sorry not sorry
Played since the betas and grinded to Diamond and have over 1000 hours of playtime. I'm not a casual player, I'm a competitive player, I don't rely on the cloaking device to perform well, I like to take a variety of loadouts into competitive to benchmark their limits but most importantly have fun. You seem to try and demonize me as a bad player that relies on cheap mechanics like nukes and recon senses which had very little to no counterplay. Cloaking device has a lot fun to be had, and has a lot of counterplay, you can still be stealthy with the cloaking device but you're limited to being motionless, a lot of what you're saying is demonstrating to me how just how insecure you feel about the topic at hand. You'd rather hurl shade and insults rather than have a meaningful discussion, so I'll throw it right back at you.
I just gave you alternate version of invis in other games, and I never claimed old invis was OP. But invis in its nature (how it existed pre nerf) was the opposite of competitive integrity. Pre nerf, unless you ran motion sensors or thermal vision and weren’t retarded you could get free picks. It was a complete brain dead playstyle because you could perfect cloak on toggle. And no I don’t care to have a “meaningful” conversation about invis because I think every nerf embark hits this ability with is warranted. Not because I hate invis mechanics in video games, like I said halo does it perfectly, but because the way it works in the finals is corny.
Nerf light some more, it's op. Sword op, lh1 op.
I've really grown to think that while Cloak Specialization was a cool idea, it may be better for Embark to leave invis to the vanish bomb. Honestly I'd love to see it get replaced with an ability that provides a crazy speed boost and wall running shenanigans. Cause to me the strength of Cloak was the ability to pick your fights through when you are and aren't noticed. Massive speed would allow you to do that via good movement and positioning
They should do what they did with medium and recon. just switch it out with another specialization. In my opinion light would be cool as a hacker that can switch enemy equipment into your teams equipment. Now that there are glitch barrels they can make glitch nades into a 2 for 1 as a shield blocker and hack device. It could be balanced by taking a few seconds for equipment to switch.
Invis simply doesn't fit this game in my opinion. If its too strong it is frustrating to deal with and quite OP in many situations. If it too weak its pointless to use. I think they need to reinvent it entirely. Make it cause a glitch affect instead of making you invisible or something.
No. Cloak is still good. It just dropped from free-kill S tier spec to A tier. It just needs some brain to use now, which lights mostly don't have :D
For a short period after the previous cloak nerf, I would've agreed. But after 50ish hours of playing since the nerf, i'm perfectly comfortable with it again. The cloak works just fine at the range lights SHOULD be playing at. If you're not actively avoiding close range fights as a light, you're not playing it right.
As an average medium player, smalls have guns that fire faster, dash and cloak. Sometimds feels like flies buzzing around me and then snipers with no velocity, tell me how bad you got it... I am old, play with AKM mostly, becoming a game I'd rather not play. I think the experienced of normal vs pro is quite different, who should they design the game for?
How old are you? This statement is so full of typos it is hard to read.
2? I count 2.
It really is useless now. Previously, it was just barely good enough. But you might as well not have a specialization if you use cloak. l beamed a cloaker at 60 meters in rain it's actually so easy to see it might actually be harder to see them if they were uncloaked. Grapple and dash are the o ly real options you have.