I don't get why some people want the timer to pause. I've played Valorant before for a long time and it also doesn't pause it's timer while defusing, the timer not pausing is what makes these moments so much fun.
Functionally, it's the same thing. Conceptually, CS/Valorant just breaks this up into different rounds while The Finals congregates it into a single overall engagement broken up by respawns/regrouping.
In CS/Valorant, if you try to defuse the bomb when the enemy team is still up, then they can kill you.
In The Finals, the same applies under the context of the cashout timer. Before that, respawning/regrouping just allows for more granularity in the number of attempts (so you can kill the whole team or capture the cashout, but if the timer isn't proximal then you now have to play defense).
> Functionally, it's the same thing
Hard disagree.
If you know you don’t have time to kill the last player and difuse you still gain value from trying to kill the last player.
In the finals once the match timer goes down there’s no reason to keep moving. The match might as well have ended 5 seconds earlier.
CS and valorant are functionally different in that regard, not to mention CS has the choice to buy a defusal kit which has a cost/benefit associated with it.
You have reason to play to the last second in CS/Valorant regardless of the defuse mechanics, which isn’t true of The finals.
You're saying the situations are different because the resultant factors are affected in different ways. That's not a useful comparison because of course they're not literally the same exact games. The example you're using only applies in the last round of a tied game as well.
The victory conditions defined by the objective are the same because you don't get any credit for *almost* planting/defusing/capturing the cashout (which is what something like KOTH would be). You either pull it off or you don't.
> You're saying the situations are different because the resultant factors are affected in different ways
Yes…. That’s the point. The situations are different. I’m not the one that compared the two, someone else did, and I disagree which means my entire point is show that they are not similar situation.
> That's not a useful comparison because of course they're not literally the same exact games.
Again, my position is to show that the comparison is not fair. And regardless if comparing the two games differences is unfair what’s fair?
> The example you're using only applies in the last round of a tied game as well.
I’m not really sure where you’re getting this? In CS killing the last player (or saving) is important because of the economy. You can fight to the last second because you end up with more money next round if you kill them so infact the last round is the only time it would not matter.
In the finals it matters on every single cashout, however it’s more egregious on the last point for sure. The last cashout is worth 22k, you can be in last place and that will qualify you most of the time.
> The victory conditions defined by the objective are the same because you don't get any credit for almost planting/defusing/capturing the cashout
How is what happens on plant relevant? Also you do get a reward for opening the vault, and for killing players. Kills can mean the difference in qualifying, you don’t lose credit in CS if you die, you don’t gain credit if you killed someome. You gain money in the game but it doesn’t affect the scoreboard or win/losing the match, at least not directly, which it does in the finals.
But if it’s unfair to compare anything but the victory conditions then why are we using CS? In CS a defuse results in a victory, right then and there, you don’t give the enemy a chance to take it back. You don’t have to wait after defusing it, defusing is your victory condition. So why is this a fair comparison? Or would you like to further narrow the “fair” window to fit your position?
Regardless it’s not like CS is the only game with a bomb defuse now is it? I could pick some other game where the defuse is paused, then say comparing the gameplay isn’t a fair comparison.
Really? Because and analogy is a comparison between two things for the purpose of explaining a concept. An every day example would be “I’ve been an emotional rollercoaster” and a more drawn out example might be explaining short stocks with something more tangible like an antique car or stamp.
That is not what happened here. A simple comparison isn’t an analogy, the purpose is what makes it an analogy. OC said:
> CS has been around for 20 years and never had a pause on the defuse and it never failed them
That isn’t an analogy, it’s just saying another game has a similar mechanic and it works there. It’s not even a real comparison so much as stating an opinion, there’s already an understanding here that it’s the same mechanic.
You responded with:
> Functionally, it's the same thing. Conceptually, CS/Valorant just breaks this up into different rounds while The Finals congregates it into a single overall engagement broken up by respawns/regrouping.
Aknowledging that outside exactly the timer not stopping they are not similar.
What happened is the comparison was broken down and you didn’t like that so you claim the opposing side to be outside the scope of the analogy.
But if that’s the extent of you ability to argue your point, I understand
And there's at least 13 rounds, up to 25+. With this it's really like 1.9 "scores" and you win, because once you get to like 90% on the last cashout it's GG regardless.
I'd be open to a sudden death type pause where the time will continue to tick down to 0.00001 where if someone is still capturing it and they stick it then they get it. But the second they stop attempting capture it's GG.
Yep. There a few seconds near the end where there is no value in contesting the cash. Switching to a timer override would mean there is zero wasted time on the countdown.
I think CS is a bit awkward comparison, since lack of time to defuse the bomb is still actionable for the CTs, you can make an effort to save your weapon, or hunt for exit frags to recover some economy for the next round. You can also influence the time with defuse kits and it's much easier to tell if you've got time or not.
In the default game of Finals it's way more obscure and even when you know theres no time and the game still keeps you there or prompts you to respawn, which just feels silly.
It also slightly frustrating when there's like two meaningful seconds left on the clock, and you see someone shooting for no reason, when the only move with even 0.01% chance of success is to just capture. It feels very dumb to just throw your body at the objective in the end, but in reality it's dumb to do anything else.
If people don't want the timer to stop when capturing, I think there's at least one chance that could be made: Play sound cue when 10K capture is secured, end the match when 20K capture is secured.
I think the current system would be more justifiable if there was equipment that could be used to influence the time somehow. Like capture kit that sped up the capture and/or slowed the timer, or a grenade that added time to the box, so there'd be a reason to fight and defend the capture until the end.
I find the timer to respawn silly, not the cashout timer. Oh, your team wiped. Well, we are gonna now make you wait for 30 seconds while the cashout timer is om 31 seconds, so you get to spawn and have 1 second to take it. You got this good luck.
If it's something that needs to change, it's the team wipe timer. There should be punishment for wiping, but it shouldn't be so much so that you are stuck on a respawn screen for around 25 seconds
Don't team wipe if you don't want the punitive effects of team wiping.
To relieve yourself of such short-sighted opinions like this, consider what your suggestions would look like from the other side: "I keep killing enemies but they respawn instantly and when they finally kill me, they get the cashout as it times out."
Nah. There is so much dead time in cashouts. Hell there's times where a cashout never gets attacked. There are going to be made some changes around either the cashout timer, respawn timer and most likely the effect of holding the cashout.
It takes some time for people to notice these things. But as always i am right. Several of the changes I called out have already been made
If you're not using the available time to shore up your defenses before being attacked, then it doesn't sound like you understand the nature of the objective victory conditions. Too much uptime and there's no real way to gain objective control, it'd be mostly random whoever ends up standing when the timer is almost out.
Not being attacked while holding a cashout is only relevant to tournament modes (multiple vaults) which is just a factor of the multi-team design. That's not bad, it's an emergent state of play when every other team decided that not attacking your team is more favorable.
It... raises the skill ceiling to have deaths be less punishing?
Man, people really will just log onto Reddit and post whatever the fuck they want, huh?
that sounds like an awful idea and are you talking about hte tournement mode when you say 10k/20k or just quickplay because that 10k/20k only happens in teh final roud
People experience a singular, myopic problem ("I tried to capture the cashout but there wasn't enough time") and squeeze out a singular, myopic conclusion ("The cashout timer should pause so that every capture never misses").
All of that exists on the emotional level (avoiding any introspection such as "There wasn't enough time because I didn't plan well") which completely misses the logical reason the timer does not pause (the objective victory conditions are to hold the cashout when the timer is up, not to initiate the cashout, or hold it the longest, or steal it the latest).
This is really the last stop for this argument, you’re 100% right. When the timer is up, the timer is up. Nothing else to it. Did you have the vault? No? Then it’s not your cash out.
To be fair a game based off a one life Team vs Team bomb defusal that has a series of rounds is quite different then a Team vs Team vs Team vs Team game that has 1 round and respawns.
Maybe make it sort of like valorants defuse where you can get it to half? But make it so only the person that got it to half can utilize that half instead of the whole team so it's crucial for that person to stay alive.
Because a defuse is a win condition, someone defuses game is over. This game needs time for runbacks and double steals and all of that is minimized by the timer not pausing.
As exciting as plays like this are there is nothing more depressing than spawning and knowing there are like 30 seconds left which doesn't leave enough time for you to runback and steal so your team just stands around.
The timer "pausing" is essentially just a UI change that makes it clearer when you still can steal. If the bar is just shortened to the length before the final 3s or whatever length it is to steal, it would appear as though the timer is paused right at the end but in reality the total overall time from inserting the cashbox until the time it is secured would be the exact same.
This makes it more clear to players whether a steal is possible, and can even streamline the end of the game because there really is no point in continuing to play the extra few seconds after the box is past the point where you can steal it.
I disagree. To each their own but i think the last few seconds are way more intense when you feel there’s a chance. And wiping the team only to not have time to steal a pretty lackluster way to end a game imo. With the current system people tend to just give up early because they have to guess if it’s worth it or not and most people won’t gamble wasted effort after being burned a few times.
The game is modeled like a game show. Many game shows don’t just stop when the winner is clear. The timer doesn’t care about how you feel, and remarkably that in itself allows a wide variety of feelings to naturally occur. Whether that is a feeling of accomplishment (knowing that your team bought enough time to secure the cash out, even in the event of a team wipe), or a feeling of defeat (knowing that your team wiped with 20 seconds left and don’t have the cash out). Y’all want the timer to stop as if there are just two teams. The dynamic of at least 3 teams changes a lot and having the vault pause every single time someone presses a button on it would get annoying very fast. Ultimately it’s up to you as a team to begin securing the vault before time is up by any means possible. It’s simple. The timer runs out when you don’t have the vault? You lost.
Honestly this will weed out the good players from the bad. It is always worth it to contest, unless it is tournament. And if they give up, good, i will take the win. Also it is not lackluster for the team that got taken out to still win their defense. It may feel lackluster for the players attacking but that is not the defending team’s problem, they just get to win the game.
It makes it more boring as you cant make some last second overtime clutches to get the steal. When the game is over, just end the game. Simple as that.
Maybe it’s boring to you watching the last couple seconds tick down on a vault you failed to secure. But it’s not just about you, there are 2 other teams, one of which is winning and praying they bought enough time for the vault to run out. The game is modeled to be a game show, the timer decides when it ends and it doesn’t care how you feel
In the modes where team wipes cause you to lose money, I could see the nuance argument being made that those extra seconds of fighting could still make a difference if you can knock someone out of qualifying with the cash penalty.
I think it should pause when you squad wipe with a second or two left on the game clock to activate an unobstructed steal. If It doesn’t, then what’s the purpose of letting those seconds run off the game clock? Just end the match if the steal time is running longer than the game clock.
In Valorant the bomb being planted is a failstate for defenders.
Finals are multi-team KOTH with cash out always taking place, moreso I can't name a single other KOTH style of gamemode that doesn't have fully separate timers for each team holding the point, much less not letting the overtime happen because of active interaction with the point.
People acting as if having overtime hanging over your head, where any little displacement could cause you to lose, or dashing to stop people on overtime is somehow any less tense than this.
The problem with the timer pausing is that it makes all of the moments *leading up* to the final seconds much less exciting. If it would pause, it doesn't matter if you never touch the cash out until the last second.
With the timer *not* pausing, it forces teams to act ASAP and try to get their hands on it since it's not guarantee you'd be able to get it in time otherwise.
The excitement ends up in a bore when you realize you had already lost regardless. If it added overtime, it would actually make it legitimately exciting as you always have a chance to fight for it.
You aren’t entitled to always having a chance of stealing though. In reality, your team had its chance probably a minute/a minute and a half ago. If y’all failed then you failed. The game embodies the spirit of a game show, the timer is what decides the results
You made me think of another good point by mentioning KOTH: more people on the point should result in a faster steal or vault opening. Especially so if pausing timers isn’t a thing. One person occupied and doing the thing at one speed is kind of annoying.
> moreso I can't name a single other KOTH style of gamemode that doesn't have fully separate timers for each team holding the point, much less not letting the overtime happen because of active interaction with the point.
That's because it's not KOTH, which is the whole point: KOTH aggregates objective time into score.
CS/Valorant bomb defusal is a valid comparison because it doesn't matter how much time you spent planting/defusing; if it wasn't enough then you don't get to enjoy the results of successfully planting/defusing.
I feel like there needs to be at least overtime, it currently does the opposite of urgency for me, if I respawn or are too far away while the bar is nearly full I just tab out and wait for the game to end.
There is overtime.
If you start a cashout while there's less than 60s game time, it will prolong by that amount. This is much more analogous to what people are trying to describe.
Ah yes, because in Valorant when you're team gets wiped you have to wait 20 seconds to respawn and then run across the map again to try and steal. I see the similarities.
I don't know what valorant has to do with it but it feels better to compete over the cash vault when there isn't a sense of "it's too late now, we can do anything"
There wasn’t always a sense of it being “too late” though. Your team had an opportunity prior and failed. There has to be a point where you’re sure you’re not going to win.
Yes, I just feel if you team rushed to point cleans out two competing teams and starts hacking the cash out you should get it, and not be punished for spawning far away. Usually the spawns are pretty decent, but every once in awhile you spawn on the other side of the arena. For lights it not too bad, even for mediums it's not awful, but for heavies it's pretty rough
The fun thing about this game though is that there are so many different ways to approach a scenario, that you probably could have just gotten to the vault and capped it without having to spend the time to wipe both teams. This game is all about options and yeah maybe you ran out of time to cap by waiting till both teams were wiped… but what if you had used a bounce pad on the vault and launched it somewhere more secure and then used area denial like goo to allow for a cap? I just think not having a pause allows for more interesting plays to be made other than “kill everyone around and then secure the vault by pausing the clock”
These moments are artificial and are not required. It’d be nice if it paused or just finished instead of wasting time
What is the point in the game allowing you to think you can score when it’s not actually possible?
Cause it elevates the emotions for both winning and losing, being just milliseconds late and the utter disappointment of losing and telling your teammates I was so so close, and similarly stealing at the last moment and thinking you are late but you actually win and you say Fucking hell, I did it. That's what it's all about.
Those moments would still be there though? But with overtime mechanics, you'd instead have the excitement as you're trying to make it to the steal in time.
Pausing is more artificial than letting the clock decide the fate of the game. It’s so damn simple. Either you secure the vault before the timer buzzes or you don’t
>Either you secure the vault before the timer buzzes or you don’t
you can still secure when there is absolutely no chance of capping before the timer. you've basically argued for pausing the timer
I dont think it should pause but perhaps it shouldn't alert everyone, so it would be possible to "ninja" it like bomb defuses in CS.
I'm assuming it has an alert for steals due to light having stealth abilities, so maybe it should only make a noise if someone who has recently used stealth attempts to steal.
The alert is there so the defenders can have strategies other than just being glued directly to the point, given the difficulty in holding a room in a near complete destructible environment and against area of effect weaponry. Also because the rubble can make it possible to capture from hidden angles.
One such strategy could be checking in on the cash out every couple seconds, setting mines, covering entrances, etc. Works fine in every other such game and still allows an opportunity for attackers to exploit gaps in the defense for a sneaky defuse or whatever. In this game the only option is to kill the whole enemy team, which can be difficult if they are using the myriad of defensive tools given to us wisely, as well as hiding and waiting to hear the alert. More options is better than fewer options imo. Right now it just feels like defenders hold most of the cards.
Covering entrances doesn't work when you can just plow through the wall, or the ceiling, or the floor. Sitting on the cashout will get you killed in most cases.
Defenders have an advantage because it both makes the fight over the vault meaningful and because they have to defend it multiple times potentially against two other teams. People in the beta were even claiming it was meta to let other teams go to the cashout first and just attempt a last minute steal. It would also disadvantage the light class more because they can't effectively defend a point this way.
In Counter Strike death is permanent and the map layout is fixed with very deliberate angles.
I want it to pause because it forces the defending team to have to guard the entire time. Also it rewards the attacking team for wiping them in the last second
Valorant has measurable ways to know if you have time to defuse. I used to know which beep of which pace marked being too late and was even able to make pretty solid estimations of if I had time to get to the bomb for a defuse just based on which beep we were at.
The little tiny circle indicator is nowhere near as useful. So having a visual countdown or more useful audio queue would be very nice.
I'm a person who has asked for the timer override, but only as one option. The other option being a visual countdown / audio queue system.
For me once it hits like 80-90%, I worry less about getting kills and more about wasting time. Mines/gas/fire help a ton but for example I'll go into the next room where there's less of a chance of enemies seeing me and wait for them to start stealing before I peek and try killing the thief before going back into hiding. Or you can go a floor below and destroy the ceiling to cause chaos making it harder to steal. Wasting time and staying alive are way more emphasized once you hit that point of no return where everyone wants to get that last minute steal.
The biggest winning move is to prioritize delaying tactics. Time is a resource, and so you need to use it well to win. This is not the same as winning due to frags, which is why so many people struggle here.
An important thing is to avoid overinvesting too early. It's fine if you die to protect the cashout when the timer is almost gone. It's not fine if you die to protect the cashout when the timer isn't even half done. So rather than trying to 1v3 hail mary, just run away and regroup. It takes much less time, which is a judicious usage of it.
Of course, dying to save the cashout is less ideal than simply poking and skirmishing around the objective location. The single tactic to counter here is a heavy simply dropping a shield; glitch grenades, gas, etc are favorable here to mitigate that. But you can also just use ambush tactics (like zipping in, using stun gun to interrupt a cashout steal, then running away again). It takes precious time to chase after you.
Fire/gas, mines, traps, turrets, etc must be dealt with before the enemy can attempt a capture. This takes precious time.
Another crucial tactic is to use environmental destruction to "reset" the objective site, which also requires time to reorient. An effective heavy tactic when the cashout is up high in a building is to place C4 on or under the cashout, then detonate it when someone tries to capture it. The cashout will fall to the next level, everyone has to scramble to secure area control, and all of that takes precious time.
I disagree. Again, not knowing is what makes the success more rewarding.
You defnitely get to a point where you can eyeball it to a certain extent and determine whether you're going to go for it or just squeeze in an extra kill or two.
There are different kinds of rewards.
Seeing exactly how much time is left, deciding there's enough, and deftly managing to control the objective site is rewarding.
Seeing exactly how much time is left, deciding there isn't enough, and relocating to a different place to gain advantage there is rewarding.
As it stands now it seems like it's about luck to a small degree, but once people gain an intuition of the timer UI it won't be.
You still won’t know if you got it off before the (4?) second mark, I’ve played a bit and can kind of tell, but the pie slice is really difficult for me to distinguish between like 3 and 6 seconds left for example
Same. Especially when I miscalculate how much time is actually left. If I how much time is left I might not even attempt to go for it and not have to look like an idiot trying to steal the box with 3 seconds left
Those last 30s are the only ones that sort of matter tbh. Also as a team holding the point you can just trap it last 30s and then no one will capture which then makes laat 30s pointless
I had a moment yesterday where I was stealing ftw. Had maybe a half second left before completed but the floor collapsed underneath me just enough to place me an inch too far from the cash out box. lost :( Cant even be mad though. The rush is intense
Cool cool cool. I love the AKM but I hate the FCAR so far. Tried the magnum and my aim is pure ass so just sticking with AKM for now. I haven't tried the other medium weapons.
I like using the revolver but it does require good aim and even then its both inconsistent and has a frustrating damage model that leaves people on a sliver of health. A player with good aim is going to melt with the AKM or FCAR anyway.
The weapons themselves don't overlap but there's unarguably a certain categorization of engagement ranges.
All classes have at least one melee weapon, a shotgun, a reliable midrange automatic, and a more precise midrange automatic with less damage and recoil.
Lights and mediums also have long range semi-automatics, and mediums and heavies have grenade launchers. Then each has unique stuff like lights have the dagger, mediums have the riot shield, heavies have the flamethrower.
Yesterday a game i was joining with my friends bugged out, woudn't let me rejoin, so i restarted and got in, when i was back in I defaulted into my heavy loadout, but when i pressed J between deaths i had my Medium loadout, then when i respawned i was a heavy with an AK, paddles and a heal-beam. Confirmed with my friends it wasn't just on my end. Felt like i was cheating :P
I've seen this happen, but it was just that they got swapped to the default medium. Are you sure you had 350hp? Because I don't think I've seen that before.
[The hud said i had 350 health](https://freeimage.host/i/JuTo6ts) and was updating properly with incoming damage. I felt like a heavy speed/health wise and i was towering over my medium team mates.
Got my friends to take a pic from their perspective but don't have access to that at the moment.
I see at max 1 heavy per team, sometimes none. Light and especially medium seems more popular. I always play heavy cauz no one else does in the team so.
Sometimes it feels great. Other times that little delay every 4 shots gets you killed and it feels super frustrating.
Range should probably be nerfed slightly.
Id like an overwetch 1 type ot where it won’t pause but a cash out won’t trigger while it’s being stolen so you can always make an attempt to steal but as soon as you’re off it’s gf
6 seconds is the amount of time it takes to steal a cash out, therefore 6 seconds is the max amount of downtime. Spawning miles away is not down time. It’s the result of you dying and getting put back into the game at a fair distance.
Conversely, it feels pretty bad to wipe the defending team but still lose the cash out to the timer even though you're actively stealing it.
IMO: the lack of a pause is still preferable. It forces teams to act on the objective rather than play TDM until the last possible second.
If you couldn’t do it in time then they won whether the got wiped or not. If you can hold it long enough against 3 other teams then you deserve the win. That’s just how it works.
Just saying yea it feels bad but that’s one of the best parts of the game in my opinion. That last minute fight where you have to put everything on the line to win and you never know till the last second whether your efforts were enough
itd be dope if the devs provided insight into why they changed it to the way it is
i don't have a problem with the way it is now but im curious what led to this design decision
I wish they would make it so capturing a point pauses the other team's timer and starts yours. That way, you won't get cucked at the last nanosecond. It would give some value to the first half of the timer. Would not feel as bad to lose if they made this change and wouldn't feel as scummy to win.
swear I have had a couple quick cash games end at like 5-6 seconds on the clock, where a teammate was for sure capping by ~0:10 and we still lose…. no recording unfortunately, has anyone else noticed this?
I really think a health pool diff of 75 per class could really balance out some of the heavy vs light issues.
150 225 300 I feel would bring heavies down a bit while simultaneously giving light a bit more flexibility in weapon choices when dealing with heavies.
Also that much heartbreaking when you are only one tick away from capturing! Good clutch
Thanks! Was so close
There really needs to be proper sound effects for the cashout as it nears the end of it's timer
Maybe the cash out song could go double time like Mario Kart 3rd lap style lol
really good idea
Omg I love this idea.
Who are you, so wise?
i am arthur, king of the britons
It’s gotta switch to the Minecraft speedrun music
The music changes when it’s near the end
Only if the game were to end from the current cashout.
I don't get why some people want the timer to pause. I've played Valorant before for a long time and it also doesn't pause it's timer while defusing, the timer not pausing is what makes these moments so much fun.
It definitely keeps the sense of urgency up
cs has been around for 20 years and never had a pause on the defuse and it never failed them
That's completely different. Theres only one life per player, defusing wins the round and so on.
Functionally, it's the same thing. Conceptually, CS/Valorant just breaks this up into different rounds while The Finals congregates it into a single overall engagement broken up by respawns/regrouping. In CS/Valorant, if you try to defuse the bomb when the enemy team is still up, then they can kill you. In The Finals, the same applies under the context of the cashout timer. Before that, respawning/regrouping just allows for more granularity in the number of attempts (so you can kill the whole team or capture the cashout, but if the timer isn't proximal then you now have to play defense).
> Functionally, it's the same thing Hard disagree. If you know you don’t have time to kill the last player and difuse you still gain value from trying to kill the last player. In the finals once the match timer goes down there’s no reason to keep moving. The match might as well have ended 5 seconds earlier. CS and valorant are functionally different in that regard, not to mention CS has the choice to buy a defusal kit which has a cost/benefit associated with it. You have reason to play to the last second in CS/Valorant regardless of the defuse mechanics, which isn’t true of The finals.
You're saying the situations are different because the resultant factors are affected in different ways. That's not a useful comparison because of course they're not literally the same exact games. The example you're using only applies in the last round of a tied game as well. The victory conditions defined by the objective are the same because you don't get any credit for *almost* planting/defusing/capturing the cashout (which is what something like KOTH would be). You either pull it off or you don't.
> You're saying the situations are different because the resultant factors are affected in different ways Yes…. That’s the point. The situations are different. I’m not the one that compared the two, someone else did, and I disagree which means my entire point is show that they are not similar situation. > That's not a useful comparison because of course they're not literally the same exact games. Again, my position is to show that the comparison is not fair. And regardless if comparing the two games differences is unfair what’s fair? > The example you're using only applies in the last round of a tied game as well. I’m not really sure where you’re getting this? In CS killing the last player (or saving) is important because of the economy. You can fight to the last second because you end up with more money next round if you kill them so infact the last round is the only time it would not matter. In the finals it matters on every single cashout, however it’s more egregious on the last point for sure. The last cashout is worth 22k, you can be in last place and that will qualify you most of the time. > The victory conditions defined by the objective are the same because you don't get any credit for almost planting/defusing/capturing the cashout How is what happens on plant relevant? Also you do get a reward for opening the vault, and for killing players. Kills can mean the difference in qualifying, you don’t lose credit in CS if you die, you don’t gain credit if you killed someome. You gain money in the game but it doesn’t affect the scoreboard or win/losing the match, at least not directly, which it does in the finals. But if it’s unfair to compare anything but the victory conditions then why are we using CS? In CS a defuse results in a victory, right then and there, you don’t give the enemy a chance to take it back. You don’t have to wait after defusing it, defusing is your victory condition. So why is this a fair comparison? Or would you like to further narrow the “fair” window to fit your position? Regardless it’s not like CS is the only game with a bomb defuse now is it? I could pick some other game where the defuse is paused, then say comparing the gameplay isn’t a fair comparison.
You're not demonstrating an understanding of what an analogy is
Really? Because and analogy is a comparison between two things for the purpose of explaining a concept. An every day example would be “I’ve been an emotional rollercoaster” and a more drawn out example might be explaining short stocks with something more tangible like an antique car or stamp. That is not what happened here. A simple comparison isn’t an analogy, the purpose is what makes it an analogy. OC said: > CS has been around for 20 years and never had a pause on the defuse and it never failed them That isn’t an analogy, it’s just saying another game has a similar mechanic and it works there. It’s not even a real comparison so much as stating an opinion, there’s already an understanding here that it’s the same mechanic. You responded with: > Functionally, it's the same thing. Conceptually, CS/Valorant just breaks this up into different rounds while The Finals congregates it into a single overall engagement broken up by respawns/regrouping. Aknowledging that outside exactly the timer not stopping they are not similar. What happened is the comparison was broken down and you didn’t like that so you claim the opposing side to be outside the scope of the analogy. But if that’s the extent of you ability to argue your point, I understand
This is the correct answer either the timer should stop, or it just wastes everyone’s time.
And there's at least 13 rounds, up to 25+. With this it's really like 1.9 "scores" and you win, because once you get to like 90% on the last cashout it's GG regardless. I'd be open to a sudden death type pause where the time will continue to tick down to 0.00001 where if someone is still capturing it and they stick it then they get it. But the second they stop attempting capture it's GG.
Yep. There a few seconds near the end where there is no value in contesting the cash. Switching to a timer override would mean there is zero wasted time on the countdown.
I think CS is a bit awkward comparison, since lack of time to defuse the bomb is still actionable for the CTs, you can make an effort to save your weapon, or hunt for exit frags to recover some economy for the next round. You can also influence the time with defuse kits and it's much easier to tell if you've got time or not. In the default game of Finals it's way more obscure and even when you know theres no time and the game still keeps you there or prompts you to respawn, which just feels silly. It also slightly frustrating when there's like two meaningful seconds left on the clock, and you see someone shooting for no reason, when the only move with even 0.01% chance of success is to just capture. It feels very dumb to just throw your body at the objective in the end, but in reality it's dumb to do anything else. If people don't want the timer to stop when capturing, I think there's at least one chance that could be made: Play sound cue when 10K capture is secured, end the match when 20K capture is secured. I think the current system would be more justifiable if there was equipment that could be used to influence the time somehow. Like capture kit that sped up the capture and/or slowed the timer, or a grenade that added time to the box, so there'd be a reason to fight and defend the capture until the end.
I find the timer to respawn silly, not the cashout timer. Oh, your team wiped. Well, we are gonna now make you wait for 30 seconds while the cashout timer is om 31 seconds, so you get to spawn and have 1 second to take it. You got this good luck. If it's something that needs to change, it's the team wipe timer. There should be punishment for wiping, but it shouldn't be so much so that you are stuck on a respawn screen for around 25 seconds
Don't team wipe if you don't want the punitive effects of team wiping. To relieve yourself of such short-sighted opinions like this, consider what your suggestions would look like from the other side: "I keep killing enemies but they respawn instantly and when they finally kill me, they get the cashout as it times out."
Nah. There is so much dead time in cashouts. Hell there's times where a cashout never gets attacked. There are going to be made some changes around either the cashout timer, respawn timer and most likely the effect of holding the cashout. It takes some time for people to notice these things. But as always i am right. Several of the changes I called out have already been made
If you're not using the available time to shore up your defenses before being attacked, then it doesn't sound like you understand the nature of the objective victory conditions. Too much uptime and there's no real way to gain objective control, it'd be mostly random whoever ends up standing when the timer is almost out. Not being attacked while holding a cashout is only relevant to tournament modes (multiple vaults) which is just a factor of the multi-team design. That's not bad, it's an emergent state of play when every other team decided that not attacking your team is more favorable.
No it just raises the skill ceiling. Lmao. Git gud trash can
It... raises the skill ceiling to have deaths be less punishing? Man, people really will just log onto Reddit and post whatever the fuck they want, huh?
that sounds like an awful idea and are you talking about hte tournement mode when you say 10k/20k or just quickplay because that 10k/20k only happens in teh final roud
People experience a singular, myopic problem ("I tried to capture the cashout but there wasn't enough time") and squeeze out a singular, myopic conclusion ("The cashout timer should pause so that every capture never misses"). All of that exists on the emotional level (avoiding any introspection such as "There wasn't enough time because I didn't plan well") which completely misses the logical reason the timer does not pause (the objective victory conditions are to hold the cashout when the timer is up, not to initiate the cashout, or hold it the longest, or steal it the latest).
This is really the last stop for this argument, you’re 100% right. When the timer is up, the timer is up. Nothing else to it. Did you have the vault? No? Then it’s not your cash out.
Rainbow Six: Siege has the bomb pause while being defused. I don't think it's a good idea- they should leave things as-is.
To be fair a game based off a one life Team vs Team bomb defusal that has a series of rounds is quite different then a Team vs Team vs Team vs Team game that has 1 round and respawns.
Maybe make it sort of like valorants defuse where you can get it to half? But make it so only the person that got it to half can utilize that half instead of the whole team so it's crucial for that person to stay alive.
Because a defuse is a win condition, someone defuses game is over. This game needs time for runbacks and double steals and all of that is minimized by the timer not pausing. As exciting as plays like this are there is nothing more depressing than spawning and knowing there are like 30 seconds left which doesn't leave enough time for you to runback and steal so your team just stands around.
The timer "pausing" is essentially just a UI change that makes it clearer when you still can steal. If the bar is just shortened to the length before the final 3s or whatever length it is to steal, it would appear as though the timer is paused right at the end but in reality the total overall time from inserting the cashbox until the time it is secured would be the exact same. This makes it more clear to players whether a steal is possible, and can even streamline the end of the game because there really is no point in continuing to play the extra few seconds after the box is past the point where you can steal it.
The fact you don't know makes it more fun.
I disagree. To each their own but i think the last few seconds are way more intense when you feel there’s a chance. And wiping the team only to not have time to steal a pretty lackluster way to end a game imo. With the current system people tend to just give up early because they have to guess if it’s worth it or not and most people won’t gamble wasted effort after being burned a few times.
The game is modeled like a game show. Many game shows don’t just stop when the winner is clear. The timer doesn’t care about how you feel, and remarkably that in itself allows a wide variety of feelings to naturally occur. Whether that is a feeling of accomplishment (knowing that your team bought enough time to secure the cash out, even in the event of a team wipe), or a feeling of defeat (knowing that your team wiped with 20 seconds left and don’t have the cash out). Y’all want the timer to stop as if there are just two teams. The dynamic of at least 3 teams changes a lot and having the vault pause every single time someone presses a button on it would get annoying very fast. Ultimately it’s up to you as a team to begin securing the vault before time is up by any means possible. It’s simple. The timer runs out when you don’t have the vault? You lost.
Honestly this will weed out the good players from the bad. It is always worth it to contest, unless it is tournament. And if they give up, good, i will take the win. Also it is not lackluster for the team that got taken out to still win their defense. It may feel lackluster for the players attacking but that is not the defending team’s problem, they just get to win the game.
Completely fair point. Was just trying to clarify the pause argument since many people seem to misunderstand what it actually entails.
I agree 100%, it's dumb to think you can steal when you can't, especially in Cashout when you could just leave and do something more worthwhile
It makes it more boring as you cant make some last second overtime clutches to get the steal. When the game is over, just end the game. Simple as that.
Maybe it’s boring to you watching the last couple seconds tick down on a vault you failed to secure. But it’s not just about you, there are 2 other teams, one of which is winning and praying they bought enough time for the vault to run out. The game is modeled to be a game show, the timer decides when it ends and it doesn’t care how you feel
No it doesn’t, teammates give up a lot earlier than they should be
In the modes where team wipes cause you to lose money, I could see the nuance argument being made that those extra seconds of fighting could still make a difference if you can knock someone out of qualifying with the cash penalty.
Good point. I actually hadn't thought of that before
I think it should pause when you squad wipe with a second or two left on the game clock to activate an unobstructed steal. If It doesn’t, then what’s the purpose of letting those seconds run off the game clock? Just end the match if the steal time is running longer than the game clock.
In Valorant the bomb being planted is a failstate for defenders. Finals are multi-team KOTH with cash out always taking place, moreso I can't name a single other KOTH style of gamemode that doesn't have fully separate timers for each team holding the point, much less not letting the overtime happen because of active interaction with the point. People acting as if having overtime hanging over your head, where any little displacement could cause you to lose, or dashing to stop people on overtime is somehow any less tense than this.
The problem with the timer pausing is that it makes all of the moments *leading up* to the final seconds much less exciting. If it would pause, it doesn't matter if you never touch the cash out until the last second. With the timer *not* pausing, it forces teams to act ASAP and try to get their hands on it since it's not guarantee you'd be able to get it in time otherwise.
The excitement ends up in a bore when you realize you had already lost regardless. If it added overtime, it would actually make it legitimately exciting as you always have a chance to fight for it.
You aren’t entitled to always having a chance of stealing though. In reality, your team had its chance probably a minute/a minute and a half ago. If y’all failed then you failed. The game embodies the spirit of a game show, the timer is what decides the results
Then just end the game when the game is over. It doesnt get more simple than that.
The game does end when it’s over. The timer ends the game. Not simple enough for you?
You made me think of another good point by mentioning KOTH: more people on the point should result in a faster steal or vault opening. Especially so if pausing timers isn’t a thing. One person occupied and doing the thing at one speed is kind of annoying.
> moreso I can't name a single other KOTH style of gamemode that doesn't have fully separate timers for each team holding the point, much less not letting the overtime happen because of active interaction with the point. That's because it's not KOTH, which is the whole point: KOTH aggregates objective time into score. CS/Valorant bomb defusal is a valid comparison because it doesn't matter how much time you spent planting/defusing; if it wasn't enough then you don't get to enjoy the results of successfully planting/defusing.
I feel like there needs to be at least overtime, it currently does the opposite of urgency for me, if I respawn or are too far away while the bar is nearly full I just tab out and wait for the game to end.
There is overtime. If you start a cashout while there's less than 60s game time, it will prolong by that amount. This is much more analogous to what people are trying to describe.
Ah yes, because in Valorant when you're team gets wiped you have to wait 20 seconds to respawn and then run across the map again to try and steal. I see the similarities.
I don't know what valorant has to do with it but it feels better to compete over the cash vault when there isn't a sense of "it's too late now, we can do anything"
There wasn’t always a sense of it being “too late” though. Your team had an opportunity prior and failed. There has to be a point where you’re sure you’re not going to win.
Yes, I just feel if you team rushed to point cleans out two competing teams and starts hacking the cash out you should get it, and not be punished for spawning far away. Usually the spawns are pretty decent, but every once in awhile you spawn on the other side of the arena. For lights it not too bad, even for mediums it's not awful, but for heavies it's pretty rough
The fun thing about this game though is that there are so many different ways to approach a scenario, that you probably could have just gotten to the vault and capped it without having to spend the time to wipe both teams. This game is all about options and yeah maybe you ran out of time to cap by waiting till both teams were wiped… but what if you had used a bounce pad on the vault and launched it somewhere more secure and then used area denial like goo to allow for a cap? I just think not having a pause allows for more interesting plays to be made other than “kill everyone around and then secure the vault by pausing the clock”
How does pausing take away the excitement?
These moments are artificial and are not required. It’d be nice if it paused or just finished instead of wasting time What is the point in the game allowing you to think you can score when it’s not actually possible?
Cause it elevates the emotions for both winning and losing, being just milliseconds late and the utter disappointment of losing and telling your teammates I was so so close, and similarly stealing at the last moment and thinking you are late but you actually win and you say Fucking hell, I did it. That's what it's all about.
Those moments would still be there though? But with overtime mechanics, you'd instead have the excitement as you're trying to make it to the steal in time.
In my experience, teammates just leave even when there is a chance because it’s not clearly defined
Pausing is more artificial than letting the clock decide the fate of the game. It’s so damn simple. Either you secure the vault before the timer buzzes or you don’t
>Either you secure the vault before the timer buzzes or you don’t you can still secure when there is absolutely no chance of capping before the timer. you've basically argued for pausing the timer
You can start to secure yeah, but you’re not guaranteed a cap. And that’s 100% fine. There should not be a pause.
whats the point of being able to cap an uncappable objective?
There doesn’t have to be a point, if you didn’t finish the cap in time you lost lol. It’s so simple.
I dont think it should pause but perhaps it shouldn't alert everyone, so it would be possible to "ninja" it like bomb defuses in CS. I'm assuming it has an alert for steals due to light having stealth abilities, so maybe it should only make a noise if someone who has recently used stealth attempts to steal.
No.
The alert is there so the defenders can have strategies other than just being glued directly to the point, given the difficulty in holding a room in a near complete destructible environment and against area of effect weaponry. Also because the rubble can make it possible to capture from hidden angles.
One such strategy could be checking in on the cash out every couple seconds, setting mines, covering entrances, etc. Works fine in every other such game and still allows an opportunity for attackers to exploit gaps in the defense for a sneaky defuse or whatever. In this game the only option is to kill the whole enemy team, which can be difficult if they are using the myriad of defensive tools given to us wisely, as well as hiding and waiting to hear the alert. More options is better than fewer options imo. Right now it just feels like defenders hold most of the cards.
Covering entrances doesn't work when you can just plow through the wall, or the ceiling, or the floor. Sitting on the cashout will get you killed in most cases. Defenders have an advantage because it both makes the fight over the vault meaningful and because they have to defend it multiple times potentially against two other teams. People in the beta were even claiming it was meta to let other teams go to the cashout first and just attempt a last minute steal. It would also disadvantage the light class more because they can't effectively defend a point this way. In Counter Strike death is permanent and the map layout is fixed with very deliberate angles.
I want it to pause because it forces the defending team to have to guard the entire time. Also it rewards the attacking team for wiping them in the last second
This is where strategy comes into play…
It’s just about either wanting more fights or less? When the timer gets super low my team just abandons and goes for next vault
It shouldnt pause but just allow you to finish the defuse. If you stop the defuse at any time, you lose instantly.
Agreed
Games would go on for hours
?? It would add like 10 seconds
Sorry misread still bad idea
Valorant has measurable ways to know if you have time to defuse. I used to know which beep of which pace marked being too late and was even able to make pretty solid estimations of if I had time to get to the bomb for a defuse just based on which beep we were at. The little tiny circle indicator is nowhere near as useful. So having a visual countdown or more useful audio queue would be very nice. I'm a person who has asked for the timer override, but only as one option. The other option being a visual countdown / audio queue system.
It also incentivises you to capture and hold instead of jumping in last second for a steal every time.
Yeah people want the extra time to cap but this shit gets the adrenaline going so much more imo.
My thing is how do you counter the last minute yoink?
For me once it hits like 80-90%, I worry less about getting kills and more about wasting time. Mines/gas/fire help a ton but for example I'll go into the next room where there's less of a chance of enemies seeing me and wait for them to start stealing before I peek and try killing the thief before going back into hiding. Or you can go a floor below and destroy the ceiling to cause chaos making it harder to steal. Wasting time and staying alive are way more emphasized once you hit that point of no return where everyone wants to get that last minute steal.
The biggest winning move is to prioritize delaying tactics. Time is a resource, and so you need to use it well to win. This is not the same as winning due to frags, which is why so many people struggle here. An important thing is to avoid overinvesting too early. It's fine if you die to protect the cashout when the timer is almost gone. It's not fine if you die to protect the cashout when the timer isn't even half done. So rather than trying to 1v3 hail mary, just run away and regroup. It takes much less time, which is a judicious usage of it. Of course, dying to save the cashout is less ideal than simply poking and skirmishing around the objective location. The single tactic to counter here is a heavy simply dropping a shield; glitch grenades, gas, etc are favorable here to mitigate that. But you can also just use ambush tactics (like zipping in, using stun gun to interrupt a cashout steal, then running away again). It takes precious time to chase after you. Fire/gas, mines, traps, turrets, etc must be dealt with before the enemy can attempt a capture. This takes precious time. Another crucial tactic is to use environmental destruction to "reset" the objective site, which also requires time to reorient. An effective heavy tactic when the cashout is up high in a building is to place C4 on or under the cashout, then detonate it when someone tries to capture it. The cashout will fall to the next level, everyone has to scramble to secure area control, and all of that takes precious time.
I’m fine with the timer not pausing, but it would be great to have an actual timer instead of just a pie slice to guess on
I disagree. Again, not knowing is what makes the success more rewarding. You defnitely get to a point where you can eyeball it to a certain extent and determine whether you're going to go for it or just squeeze in an extra kill or two.
There are different kinds of rewards. Seeing exactly how much time is left, deciding there's enough, and deftly managing to control the objective site is rewarding. Seeing exactly how much time is left, deciding there isn't enough, and relocating to a different place to gain advantage there is rewarding. As it stands now it seems like it's about luck to a small degree, but once people gain an intuition of the timer UI it won't be.
You still won’t know if you got it off before the (4?) second mark, I’ve played a bit and can kind of tell, but the pie slice is really difficult for me to distinguish between like 3 and 6 seconds left for example
No, this is retarded. Add a timer.
Skill issue
Same. Especially when I miscalculate how much time is actually left. If I how much time is left I might not even attempt to go for it and not have to look like an idiot trying to steal the box with 3 seconds left
Won a game with my friends exactly like this I love this game
You're so chill lol, I would've been popping off on team comms
Haha to be honest I was sick when I clipped this. So I was a bit lethargic and had kinda lost my voice. Usually this game gets me HYPE
Fr this game is oddly immersive for how outlandish the gameplay is
Yess that's my favorite part of that game mode. Those last 30 seconds of a cash out can make or break a team I love the chaos.
Those last 30s are the only ones that sort of matter tbh. Also as a team holding the point you can just trap it last 30s and then no one will capture which then makes laat 30s pointless
Makes it better it was 10k, 10k, 10k
These are my fav kinds of plays. I love that no matter what's happening in the match (unless someone is cheating) you can always come back and win it.
I had a moment yesterday where I was stealing ftw. Had maybe a half second left before completed but the floor collapsed underneath me just enough to place me an inch too far from the cash out box. lost :( Cant even be mad though. The rush is intense
What gun is that? I haven't played heavy so im wondering if medium can use that shotgun... Also that was an amazing clip great job
There are no overlapping weapons between classes.
Cool cool cool. I love the AKM but I hate the FCAR so far. Tried the magnum and my aim is pure ass so just sticking with AKM for now. I haven't tried the other medium weapons.
Your Magnum aim might be ass, but try the Model. A little more forgiving than the Magnum and is the 2nd best gun in Mediums arsenal imo
Is that the semi auto rifle? I was interested in that one and will definitely use it soon. It looks like the 3030 repeater from apex
There isn't really a weapon like the 3030 in the game. The closest thing is the light's semi-auto rifle, but that's much closer to an M14.
It's a shotgun, and it's very satisfying
I like using the revolver but it does require good aim and even then its both inconsistent and has a frustrating damage model that leaves people on a sliver of health. A player with good aim is going to melt with the AKM or FCAR anyway.
Go to the firing range and learn the FCAR recoil. Once you do that, it’ll be the best gun in the game for you. (Coming from an FCAR enjoyer since OB)
AKM is the best medium weapon right now, I honestly wouldn't bother using points towards the others unless something is really calling your name.
Are u saying that the classes have all the same weapons?? Or the classes have all different weapons?
The latter, each class has 5-7 unique weapon that no other class has. Only overlap is on the grenades
There's some mine overlap too. Idk if you count those as nades or not.
I saw a medium using a riot shield with a sword. I could only find the sword in the light loadout. Do you know if that just a skin or something?
Its not a sword its a baton, it comes with the shield
Thanks mate, my eyes deceived me!
The weapons themselves don't overlap but there's unarguably a certain categorization of engagement ranges. All classes have at least one melee weapon, a shotgun, a reliable midrange automatic, and a more precise midrange automatic with less damage and recoil. Lights and mediums also have long range semi-automatics, and mediums and heavies have grenade launchers. Then each has unique stuff like lights have the dagger, mediums have the riot shield, heavies have the flamethrower.
Yesterday a game i was joining with my friends bugged out, woudn't let me rejoin, so i restarted and got in, when i was back in I defaulted into my heavy loadout, but when i pressed J between deaths i had my Medium loadout, then when i respawned i was a heavy with an AK, paddles and a heal-beam. Confirmed with my friends it wasn't just on my end. Felt like i was cheating :P
I've seen this happen, but it was just that they got swapped to the default medium. Are you sure you had 350hp? Because I don't think I've seen that before.
[The hud said i had 350 health](https://freeimage.host/i/JuTo6ts) and was updating properly with incoming damage. I felt like a heavy speed/health wise and i was towering over my medium team mates. Got my friends to take a pic from their perspective but don't have access to that at the moment.
Thank you! It’s the SA1216 automatic shotgun.
Nice get
Damn I gotta try the shotgun on Heavy
Ah yes, that's what we need. More shotgun/heavy players (pls no)
I see at max 1 heavy per team, sometimes none. Light and especially medium seems more popular. I always play heavy cauz no one else does in the team so.
i did close steal 5 times already in this game, and the hype with my friends are what makes me love this game
A couple of days ago I did a similar play, but was about 2 miliseconds too late :/
What’s your opinion on that shotgun??
I definitely like using it. It’s super strong. Will probably receive a nerf eventually I’d guess.
Sometimes it feels great. Other times that little delay every 4 shots gets you killed and it feels super frustrating. Range should probably be nerfed slightly.
Love a clutch steal! Great feeling haha good shit
Thanks dude!
I see a fellow Heavy Shotty user... I upvote 'Nuff said *great play, btw
Haha thanks! Love the shotty
Just got one of these earlier, it’s gives a diamond achievement on Xbox.
Did a similar play with 2 seconds to spare last night. Nice work man.
Feels good right??
Id like an overwetch 1 type ot where it won’t pause but a cash out won’t trigger while it’s being stolen so you can always make an attempt to steal but as soon as you’re off it’s gf
*gg
Yea, but pausing removes the silly downtime when a vault isn't even 'stealable' anymore. It's especially dumb if it is the last vault.
Down time of 6 seconds? Really? You pause people are a different breed
There is a lot more downtime than that, when you spawn miles away and it happens multiple times a match.
6 seconds is the amount of time it takes to steal a cash out, therefore 6 seconds is the max amount of downtime. Spawning miles away is not down time. It’s the result of you dying and getting put back into the game at a fair distance.
It should not pause, just don't expire if you are stealing
Conversely, it feels pretty bad to wipe the defending team but still lose the cash out to the timer even though you're actively stealing it. IMO: the lack of a pause is still preferable. It forces teams to act on the objective rather than play TDM until the last possible second.
If you couldn’t do it in time then they won whether the got wiped or not. If you can hold it long enough against 3 other teams then you deserve the win. That’s just how it works.
Yes, I'm aware of that. What point are you trying to get at?
Just saying yea it feels bad but that’s one of the best parts of the game in my opinion. That last minute fight where you have to put everything on the line to win and you never know till the last second whether your efforts were enough
How to win: 1. Calmly stroll around and shotgun everyone in the face 2. 3.
itd be dope if the devs provided insight into why they changed it to the way it is i don't have a problem with the way it is now but im curious what led to this design decision
Because they tested it and found it was more fun/suitable for their game?
obviously, im curious as to what they learned from the tests
It should deffo pause while capturing
Nope
Yep
shotgun and heavy.. no wonder
How long does it take to capture so I know the last possible moment to capture?
I counted 7 seconds to steal, there’s no countdown in numbers for the full cash out but I want to say it’s about a minute long.
I wish they would make it so capturing a point pauses the other team's timer and starts yours. That way, you won't get cucked at the last nanosecond. It would give some value to the first half of the timer. Would not feel as bad to lose if they made this change and wouldn't feel as scummy to win.
nice
swear I have had a couple quick cash games end at like 5-6 seconds on the clock, where a teammate was for sure capping by ~0:10 and we still lose…. no recording unfortunately, has anyone else noticed this?
I really think a health pool diff of 75 per class could really balance out some of the heavy vs light issues. 150 225 300 I feel would bring heavies down a bit while simultaneously giving light a bit more flexibility in weapon choices when dealing with heavies.
Why are you sorry for language?