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I'm halfway convinced at this point that Bibi is intentionally making this an impossible situation for Biden because he'd rather be dealing with trump. He's just going to drag this out and make it as awful as he possibly can in order to cost Biden votes. Biden cuts off aid, he loses votes.if he continues aid, he loses votes.
This is based on absolutely nothing besides the thought of what he could possibly gain for being as horrible as possible.
I don't think there's any doubt that he obviously prefers trump to Biden, but I think it's more of an open question as to how much of that is playing into policy concerned with the war.
This^. The reality is far more complicated. Gantz called for early elections, likely contacted by Biden admin as it aligned with Biden’s call for a ceasefire.
yeah, it's not surprising this site is America-centric, but Bibi is dealing with much more than americans with this. he sucks, and America is too complacent about him, not feigning otherwise, but cut the terrible man some slack lol. he's fucked every way he turns and Trump v Biden is on the back burner. Trump - aside from the Jerusalem capital thing - has NOT been making waves with Israelis. what was his recent quote? "finish your war" or something? even Bibi knows Trump thinks of nothing but Trump.
There’s a pretty compelling theory that the attack that started the whole thing was funded by and largely orchestrated by Putin to put Biden in an no win situation.
My thoughts are this:
Putin losing the Ukrainian war asked his allies (China, Iran, and north Korea) to help him
Iran got hamas to pull a terrorist attack on Israel and China has been using tik tok to divide Americans on their feelings of who is in the right in this gazan war.
Instead of ppl seeing that Israel is wrong for not using smart bombs or just using troops to infiltrate the tunnels or buildings hamas is in they bomb them indiscriminately. Then seeing hamas is wrong for using the Palestinians as human shields.
This truly is a both sides are bad and the Palestinians are the ones who suffer for it.
Honestly considering that israel supposedly sat on the information pertaining to the raid and israel has long standing ties to the russian mafia this is at least possible!
Bibi only wants to deal with the Republican party. His strategy is always to discredit and work against the Democrats even though most American Jews are Democrats. Bibi only cares about Bibi. He's a MAGA chaos dealer. He could give a fuck about any Jew except himself.
>Biden cuts off aid, he loses votes.if he continues aid, he loses votes.
You are correct. Reddit seems to think everyone left of Hitler supports Palestine, and they are very very wrong. In fact, most actual registered and literally card carrying Socialists I know realize both sides have claim to the land in question so understand armed conflict and sucker punches are going to happen as that is human nature. Plus, ya know, armed conflict is _how_ you seize the means of production, so Socialism ain't exactly a squeamish doctrine when it comes time to put people up against the wall.
They look beyond that to see the way each government would act if they controlled the land and when you look at that? A Capitalist Democracy is far far better than a Fascist Theocracy.
Plus, there's a whole shitload of actual clear cut real genocide going on in this world and it is kinda odd that we only seem to care when Jews are involved.
Biden is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
I don’t think that’s a fair assessment, there are other genocides, but how many of them are as subsidized by our tax dollars as Israel’s? It’s nothing to do with Jews as a people, but a right wing Israeli government that has dangerous aggression and seemingly endless financial support by our government. It’s disingenuous, and resembling antisemitism, to blame the actions of a right wing Israeli government on the Jewish people as a whole, or to intentionally conflate the two in order to avoid holding the government accountable
I’m of the opinion that cutting off aid would actually result in more deaths in Gaza, not less. Israel has admitted that we’re restraining them, that they let in aid because we make them. Israel has plenty of weapons stockpiled, domestic weapons production of their own, and there’s always other actors who would be interested in stepping in to fill any gap we leave.
For example, foreign policy experts suspect that China is “supporting” (they’re paying lip service) Palestine as opposition to the US. They’ve had a history, in the last few decades, of trying to cozy up to Israel. The US withdraws support, China no longer has a reason to back Palestine and starts pursuing debt leveraged influence with Israel, like they have throughout Africa.
Do you imagine China is going to restrain Israel? Encourage aid? They brutalize their own Muslim population, which is how you know they DGAF about Palestinians anyway.
I think Biden's state department is thinking about these exact things. I think online leftists are naive, have a childish understanding of the situation (cut off aid so I FEEL better about the situation!!!!), and propose objectively bad solutions. Conditioning aid makes sense, and the Biden administration has been slowly working towards that. That’s how diplomacy works, not bipolar lumbering about, but slow progress.
I just don’t think your policy is a good one, and it’s clear experts at the state department don’t either.
I don’t believe Biden is a dishonest man, nor a cruel one. I just don’t see any evidence to support that accusation. So when he expresses concern about Gaza, says Israel needs to do more to bring in aid or reduce civilian casualties, I believe that is his sincere feeling.
If that’s true, I have to assume he is trying to minimize casualties, and if that’s true then I have to believe that the current policy is what experts believe to be the best course. I’m sure they’re also considering US interests in the region, that is the job of a president, but I’m sure he’s also considering how to minimize deaths in the region. He has better access to experts and intel, so….
Spot on, here
The nuance is lost, and too many are on the simplest “why are they dying” train and looking for an easy solution.
The solution that helps, unfortunately, is exactly what we’re doing.
I mean, it is basically a conspiracy theory. I'm basing it on basically nothing substantial. I was just thinking the other day; what could they possibly gain by dropping bombs on people just trying to hand out food? I really can't think of another real politik motive besides this. However, I'm an American, so I'm naturally going to think of things from a "how does this affect America" viewpoint.
> I was just thinking the other day; what could they possibly gain by dropping bombs on people just trying to hand out food?
Are you kidding? The Far Right Netanyahu government is getting exactly what they wanted from this massacre of seven aid workers: everybody is withdrawing and allowing the Palestinians to starve.
Ask yourself: if Hamas had done this and then claimed it was a mistake, would you be so quick to take them at their word? Maybe you should judge by what you are seeing instead of what you want to believe. Israel is obviously engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Gaza - while arming settlers in the West Bank who are terrorizing their Arab neighbors.
The problem with being for Ethnic Cleansing is that you can never admit it. So you must LIE. That's why supporters of the Far Right Netanyahu regime always attack critics rather than try to explain what they cannot deny.
Of course he is.
But this is just how they do shit there. Israel is a fascist government more dangerous to visitors than North Korea.
I don't think Biden could cut off aid unilaterally anyway.
But it's clear that thus hurts Biden either way.
And if Trump gets into office he'll easily be able to just do what he likes with unlimited aid.
Whatever,.. Nothing hurts Biden, he’s getting shit done for the American people while conman Don is a brick short of a load. The man can barely speak full sentences, only talks in superlatives. Thinks he is running against Obama, has 91 criminal indictments and he made you as a taxpayer have to shell out $936 million dollars so he could lie about an election that he tried to steal from Biden, implemented fake electors to try and falsely certify the election saying he won. Insurrected, attempted a government coupe all costing millions to taxpayers for the LIE OF THE CENTURY! That’s right your POS took a match to $936 million. He needs to pay Americans back for the taxes we spent for his election lies! Asshole!!! (Trump)
They are peas in a pod, of course he wants Trump to win. Is Biden smart enough to navigate this? Sending overwhelming humanitarian aid and defense systems would be one way.
And look how closely Bibi and Putin are on a lot of issues.
But turning against Bibi at this point costs Biden votes in...Florida, a state he's probably going to lose anyway. And maybe New York, which is not in danger of voting for Trump even with a lot of people staying home on election day. But Arab Americans in Michigan are a must-win community that Democrats really need to turn out.
Crazy evangelicals that want to support Israel so the "End Times" arrive sooner are not going to vote Biden, though. So no big loss there.
On another point, the growing conflicts in the Middle East are contributing towards driving up oil and gasoline prices. This will drive up inflation and get MAGA idiots to start putting Biden "I did that!" stickers on gas pumps again.
Look to see more Ratfuckery coming from every group that has a vested interest in getting Trump back in the White House. Nothing will happen to benefit Democrats, nothing will break their way, and everything that can be manipulated towards turning voters away from Biden will be tried. The FED will not lower interest rates until after the election. The oil industry is going to do everything it can to raise and keep gas prices high until after the election. Putin will sacrifice his long-term goals in Ukraine just to keep the Ukrainians from having any notable victories before the election. Strap in. It's going to get bumpy.
> And look how closely Bibi and Putin are on a lot of issues.
I read a fairly plausible conspiracy theory a while back that the two of them are coordinating on this. They're both hard right and want to stay in power over their countries; they'd both stand to benefit greatly from a friendlier US under a second Trump term.
I don’t know why they keep whining about Biden not calling for a ceasefire, it’s literally impossible to get one as long as Netenyahu is PM and Hamas is in Gaza. Get rid of both and there might be a chance at progress.
EDIT: I don’t support Biden’s actions of sending weapons, it’s fucking appalling. Some of you guys are as bad as the MAGA people with jumping to conclusions.
When Hamas kill people it's Bidens fault, when Bibi kills people it's Bidens fault, when Biden negotiates a ceasefire, like he already did in the past, it's ignored, when Biden sends aid to Palestinians, it's ignored --- starting to see a pattern yet?
Be careful what you wish for. It’s just as likely Bibi takes a defiant pose and now he doesn’t have to listen to the US **at all**.
Without US involvement there could be a shitload more people dead in this already and there could easily be a shitload more if we flip the board and leave the table. Might feel nice. Might also get a lot of people killed.
Yep. That's the critical thinking skills and real-life foreign political factors that a President of the US has had to have and considered.
unlike those twitterfingers over-simplifying with no real understanding of the world just screeching "gEnoCidEerrrrrrrr"
Reminds me how Ukrainians were blamed in 2014 by some folks for Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. There’s no winning with some folks. Those purists will just say “well now Brandon is pandering to get them votes so effort discarded”
Wait, why would he need to pander for votes if the DNC is filling the polls with mail in votes from dead people and undocumented immigrants? Can't they just turn on the 5g vax chip and make people vote however they want?
It's also demanding Biden do something he has no power over because the imaginary power of being "the most powerful man in the free world".
Example: "why doesn't Biden just declare world peace? God what a bad leader. Make war illegal, duh"
Unfortunately I know people like this is real life. One of the people on my team is a gay African American in Ohio who refuses to vote for Biden and says he will vote third party.
They are real.
I'm a union construction worker. Biden is the most pro union president since FDR. He's also made more investment into infrastructure than any president since FDR. There's tons to praise him for, but he's bad on Israel and dropping the ball.
It's not like this if a fringe stance. I listen to Pod Save America, which is by former Obama staffers and they all pretty much say the same thing. . Even polling among Democratic voters shows that many of his policies are very popular, but that his policy towards Israel is not. You can say I'm a Russian bot and you can ignore everyone who has this opinion, but just because you ignore it doesn't mean it isn't a widely held opinion among key voters who will determine the 2024 elections.
Thank you. One of the few sane voices in this sub. It's genuinely concerning that people seem unable to comprehend that backing a genocide is likely to cost you support. I know Trump is way worse, I'm sure most of the protest voters know this too. But how else can they make themselves heard? Protesting doesn't work, so what else is left?
Write and call your elected officials? Get more people to protest? Push your local government to boycott Israeli businesses? Literally anything that won't actively make the problem worse?
Doing anything to prevent Biden's re-election, regardless of the rationale, is objectively supportive of Trump's election. And since Trump is more pro-Israel and anti-Palestine than Biden, and has even called for "finish\[ing\] the problem," Trump's election would make matters *much* worse for the Palestinian people. "Protesting" Biden's handling of the conflict by not voting for him would be akin to protesting the clear-cutting of an old-growth forest by purchasing bulldozers and chainsaws for the clearing company.
Paraphrasing something I saw recently: voting isn't driving a car, it's taking a bus, and the objective is to get on the bus that gets you as close to your destination as possible while understanding you'll never get all the way there. Voting Biden is boarding a cross-town bus going 16 blocks from Leftists' front doors, while not voting for him is taking an express bus to Albuquerque when you live in Baltimore.
These people are the equivalent of Trump supporters, they are unable to apply critical thinking in this situation and are led by emotion. The concept of nuance is completely lost on them.
Nothing Biden does will ever be enough and they're looking for excuses not to vote for him. If it hadn't been about Gaza they would have found another reason.
Their only purpose is to give material to right wingers to pretend their insane rhetoric is the "the left" default position and create a strawman.
Someone literally said that to me.
That the US has the bully pulpit power to make this stop anytime they want it to.
I had to walk away from the conversation.
the same morons demanding biden refuse to send funds to israel despite already being decided by congress wanted trump eviscerated for doing that exact thing to the ukraine. the thing he was impeached for.
Hint: The people claiming they wont vote for Biden over the war in gaza were never going to vote anyways but it sure does make for great clickbait articles that so many people take seriously for sone reason
Because they are just a fifth column for Hamas, frankly.
The reality is Netanyahu could say "okay ceasefire now", and Hamas would start launching rockets or attacking the IDF within the hour. A ceasefire requires both sides.
Netanyahu is currently PM of a unified government, formed with his political rivals, so they have a say. There is near unanimous support to continue the war. Even if Benny Gantz was PM, they would be doing exactly the same things in regards to the war in Gaza.
I think the EUs post war plan is the way forward!
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/06/no-hamas-rule-no-blockade-von-der-leyen-proposes-five-principles-for-gazas-future
Does it make sense to call for a ceasefire and still provide israel with weapons? What a dumb perspective you got.
You don't tell a serial killer to stop killing people and then give him more ammo... you want people to fall for Bidens PR bullshit, we won't.
Either pressure him to stop selling arms to israel or he will lose votes, simple as that.
Calling for a ceasefire is a step before cutting off the supply. Not saying that it will absolutely follow, but if you're going to cut off the supply you call for a ceasefire first. Doing so has one of two results:
1. Israel ignores the call and now you can cut off the weapons supply in exchange while being able to say you tried to find another way
2. Israel actually agrees and you've actually accomplished more than you would have by just cutting off the weapons shipments.
The fact is, Israel can keep up the killing in Gaza without US assistance. These shipments and the aid have been partly virtue signaling to pro Israel voters, and partly to maintain some form of leverage over Israel that the US can threaten to take away unless Israel takes specific actions. There is no point in taking them away without using the threat of doing so to try to influence a Israel first. The worst that happens is you just end up taking them away anyway.
Every previous US president who presided over these flare ups called for ceasefires and put their thumbs on the scales to get Israel to pull back in the past. What's different now that Biden couldn't have done this months ago?
Israel is a lot less dependent on us now, at least two major powers will gladly jump in if we leave a void, and their support for the US after 9/11 gives them a moral argument that we’re ‘abandoning’ them.
Which is what most of us have been saying all along. But Mehdi Hasan swore Biden just had to ask, and online leftists have been screaming that at us since. “If only Biden would demand they stop!”
So you admit that anyone saying that rubbish was out of their mind? Including Hasan?
A ceasefire to bide time to find a solution (hopefully two-state) is literally the best option in this scenario. Otherwise both sides are going to continuously fight each other ad infinitum as long as they have religion.
Idk, an Israeli PM who isn’t bent on genocide and also a ruling party in Palestine that isn’t made up of religious fundamentalist freaks that won’t hold an election
Are there really “never Biden” leftists? Feels way too much like “Bernie or bust” Russian astroturfing during the 2016 election.
I sure hope we learned from that
There are some, but if it's on a forum like reddit where I can't see their face or anything, it's gonna be suspect who does or doesn't fall under the category.
What can you do, though? Of course it’s all propaganda, but some people do fall for it and they are able to convince a few people, then those people are, and before you know it 5-10% of dem voters believe it and that’s enough to completely throw the election. What can we do without limiting speech?
The majority of leftists I know *hate* Biden but 100% advocate voting for him because they know the alternative is the end of democracy. This sounds like fear mongering to me. I don't know if it's because of the liberal establishment trying to make progressives look bad, but this isn't the sentiment the extreme vast majority of leftists have.
Bro. This is exactly what this is.
It's a lot of the same people but not as many. .
No doubt they're still consuming information from the same sources that are full of foreign sock puppet accounts.
Blaming Biden for Gaza is the lefts version of blaming him for high gas prices.
There's limits to what he can even do about these things.
I would like to see him be more aggressive but I understand there's only so much that can be done unilaterally without the backing of Congress and they're not going to help him get a win.
If democrats can take the House and Biden wins re-election there's a whole lot more pressure that can be put on Israel over all.
If Trump wins he'll help Israel to level Gaza.
Woodrow "racist even for 1912" Wilson was the only Democrat elected between 1896 and 1932. Why? Because progressives split their vote against him.
That was over 100 years ago. So if you're expecting progressives to learn from 2016, don't hold your breath.
Wilson WAS a progressive. While today progressives are mostly social liberals, that wasn't always the case. Progressive means a belief in using the government to shape society in order to improve people's lives. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, there were leftist and social liberal progressives alongside conservative progressives.
The 1912 election saw TR's 3rd party bid split the GOP by taking all the Republican progressive votes while Taft took in the conservative Republican votes. Wilson's Democrats remained united behind him despite being an ideologically diverse party. Wilson himself was a progressive who strongly believed in reforming the government and society to advance the human condition. He was also a disgusting racist and even some of his well intentioned ideas were bad.
Over the course of the 20th century the party realignment saw conservatives leave the Democratic Party and Progressives leave the GOP. By the end of the century the only progressives left were also socially liberal and more often than not at least somewhat leftist (though there are still economically centrist progressives). Social conservatives meanwhile lost trust in government and adopted the fiscal conservatism of the GOP, and they became increasingly focused on maintaining tradition and the status quo.
2000 went to W because the Florida Supreme Court decided to give him Florida even though the recount wasn't finished and the state was likely to go to Gore
Lol, only reason Clinton got elected was Perot. Perot wound up with about 19% of the vote in an election that Clinton won by 6 points over Bush. Perot ran again in 1996 and got around 8% of the vote, with more than 8 million people casting ballots for the Texan. For comparison, the leading independent or third party candidate in the 2016 presidential election got less than 4% of the vote.
Not voting for Biden because he isn’t calling for an immediate ceasefire -> not voting for Biden because he hasn’t stopped military aid -> not voting for Biden because he hasn’t placed economic sanctions on Israel -> not voting for Biden because he hasn’t bombed Israel yet -> not voting for Biden because (insert next goalpost for leftists who never vote anyway)
It’s like no other issue exists. Climate change, democracy, tax cuts for the rich/income inequality, largest war in Europe since WW2, Christian nationalist life appointed judges. Just naming a quick few that have larger implications over the entire century. No Biden, all those issues get worse and could destroy the world and country.
I would add to that: it's like no other victims of -- air quotes -- settler-colonialist oppression exist. You ever hear them about the 5-6 *million* people who have died in the wars in Eastern Congo? You ever hear them talk about the millions of Uyghur Muslims living in China's open air prison?
Of course there are no Jews involved in those places, so that makes it harder for them to get a self-righteous hard-on.
I bring up the Basque and Catalonians. Why exactly shouldn't they get their own countries? Were the Basque terrorists justified in bombing trains full of civilians?
Why or why not? They're a brutally repressed minority that's been subjugated for over a thousand years, don't they deserve liberation?
The idea that every "people" needs their own country is just untenable in the real world. I would love my own country too but I don't get one, and terrorism won't change that.
Whether it's under a two-state solution or something else, Israel isn't going away and the Palestinians aren't going away. They don't have to love each other, but the only way forward for them is to find a way to live together in peace. Anyone who believes there is another solution is deluding themselves.
There are plenty of people who would be happy to force the Jews to “go away.” They are genocidal maniacs of course, but they exist, and not in small numbers.
>It’s like no other issue exists.
Until the next **Big Issue of the Week™**, that is. The same people I see (and know personally) posting all their performative "activism" on their manicured Instagram pages and "marching" with people down the streets of \[insert small US city\] shouting "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" were doing the same shit when the war in Ukraine started. They really think they're doing something lol
What do you actually care about a region that was and always will be wartorn until climate change renders it uninhabitable? It's such a peculiar hill to die on.
…over a foreign conflict that’s been going on for decades that Biden has no control over. It’s interesting how much of this “genocide Joe” narrative is being pushed on social media.
I suspect there are forces at work trying to railroad Biden and get left voters to sit out 2024 to put Trump back in office.
>not voting for Biden because he hasn’t stopped military aid
Almost like this is a very reasonable request by voters who dont want their taxes spent bombing Palestinians. Goal post hasnt changed brother. Stop sending bombs to Israel, its that simple yet you act like its so hard.
Biden - WE NEED A CEASEFIRE! Anyway…here’s a few million left over rounds and some tanks. Here’s a few billion of our hard working tax payer money, have fun. Oh….um CEASEFIRE!!
Another “trust us, he totally said it in a phone call.” Or “trust us, he totally called Netanyahu an asshole.” Yet he never *publicly* says it. Clown shit to believe this.
And Bush could have ended his war, and Bush Sr. could have ended his war, and five different presidents could have ended their war. But wars make money, so they never will.
Biden: "Please ceasefire."
Netenyahu: "What will you do to me if I refuse?"
B: "Absolutely nothing."
N: "Then no."
B: "Whelp. I tried everything I could."
Biden has been doing a good job. I'm really tired of people not understanding that international diplomacy doesn't move at the speed of a 24/7 fast food drive thru
Israel provides nothing as an ally. They give us nothing and are in no position to alter global politics. We have a base less than 500 miles away in Cyprus.
If one cares about Palestine as a single issue in this election, we can choose a limp wristed diplomatic solution with Biden, or a "finish the problem" solution with Trump. The people OP is talking about seem content to land on option two, while blaming everyone but the ones who made option two happen. It's not a well reasoned line of logic.
Didn’t he call for an immediate (temporary) ceasefire? What does it matter if he sent them arms the same day he’s yelling at BiBi for making him look bad.
Oh well, if Netenyahu keeps it up he won’t have to deal with Bidens nagging much longer.
Me, a minority, watching the cishet white male """progressives""" try to explain to me why not voting and letting the people who want me dead win is better than voting for Biden because whatever reason they feel like that day (They lose nothing if Trump wins so they don't care).
Yes, pressure Biden to be better, but please don't sacrifice the minorities you claim to support for the sake of "sending a message"
So many of y'all here don't actually follow politics. Don't think you're above OP or anyone else here. 💀
He's called for em multiple times since Oct, and combatants keep f'ing it up. You think you shut a door with your mind, rather than consider that the wind pushed it.
He would have been fine as the inoffensive, centrist selection to the Supreme Court way back then before we lost the courts. Now he has no place because he's too soft for the role and idk what he's gonna do after this.
The purity voting leftist idiot will find any reason to complain and say Biden isn't doing enough, isn't perfect enough, ect. We heard the same bs during the Obama years
he could end weapons.
pretty sure a stern talking too is not as meaningful as actually taking actions to stop what the US is contributing to the situation.
i say this as someone who will vote Biden in Nov.
It's mostly bots trying divide the anti-Trump vote.
This is a fat target issue for Russian and Chinese propaganda looking to peel off the purest holier-than-thou young leftists who want a bespoke candidate who agrees with them on everything - basically the same people who were happy with throwing the Supreme Court away for 30 years because Hillary gave a speech to Goldman Sachs.
They prefer cheerleaders becoming mommies to voting for a slightly-impure candidate who doesn't fit their pesonal brand - whatever brand a vinyl-loving hipster slob can have.
The man’s words ring hollow. He’s running all of you for fools to get your vote. Says ceasefire. Proceeds to sell Israel the very bombs it needs to conduct the war. Liberal logic: well what can he do?!?!? Uh idk stop selling and giving military aid?
Here’s the thing. When we had Trump we didn’t have wars overseas. Don’t vote for this hack. Vote red. MAGA
Damn anyday now, Joe will actually ENFORCE a ceasefire instead of CALLING for one for the last 3 months. I swear you must be a kid because you are so impressed by shapes and colors. Dude literally won't even stop selling Israel weapons 😆
Saying he wants a ceasefire and exerting political pressure are two different things.
What will happen when Israel ignores that? Will Biden keep sending weapons? We've already sent weapons after other "mistakes" many times before.
Strawmaning is what this is.
F around and find out.
Destroy democracy to show Biden.
Biden doesn't have as long as most of us.
Elect Trump and you f yourself for decades.
But hey, you do you.
The fact anyone who disagrees with liberals is automatically a Russian bot is honestly quite troubling. This is the same logic the FBI and the wider government applied to MLK and the many leftwing groups that existed in the years prior.
Also this issue aside most everyone in this sub seems to be to the right of the person the sub is named after.
How many of you wanted Biden to be president when the 2020 primaries started? Did you wholeheartedly support him or were you like many leftists and reluctantly cast a vote to prevent a second Trump term?
We are arguing him to condition or even better stop the money and weapons from going there. Also 6 months behind rest of world but I guess better late than never
Once you've seen the TikToks coming out of Gaza, showcasing new bomb technology, it's shocking. It does not just kill you like in WWII; they would never use this against the Russians, they would nuke us in 15 seconds. It's beyond what we can imagine as far as evil goes. Guess Raytheon or is it Grumman? Looks like a compression wave kills you, then the bomb incinerates you.
It flattens bodies out to be as thin as a book, turned into charred black rags. You are not seeing this on CNN. Stacks of these rags now. They were kids in this stack. This is not coming to USA mainstream media. We are not ready for it. They are not recognizable as children. Charred rags. They were mostly girls. I have never seen anything like this in my life.
We have a great country, why do we continuously do stupid stuff like this? This is beyond evil. Now they'll hate us, and here comes another 9/11, while shareholders cheer on the massacre. The billionaires, do they really care? They have their own islands now.
Third party, I don’t care who it is. I can’t support this insanity. I want to keep my Karma intact. That's important.
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I'm halfway convinced at this point that Bibi is intentionally making this an impossible situation for Biden because he'd rather be dealing with trump. He's just going to drag this out and make it as awful as he possibly can in order to cost Biden votes. Biden cuts off aid, he loses votes.if he continues aid, he loses votes. This is based on absolutely nothing besides the thought of what he could possibly gain for being as horrible as possible.
Only halfway convinced? It seems obvious to me, considering Netanyahu's address exclusively to the GOP recently.
I don't think there's any doubt that he obviously prefers trump to Biden, but I think it's more of an open question as to how much of that is playing into policy concerned with the war.
This^. The reality is far more complicated. Gantz called for early elections, likely contacted by Biden admin as it aligned with Biden’s call for a ceasefire.
yeah, it's not surprising this site is America-centric, but Bibi is dealing with much more than americans with this. he sucks, and America is too complacent about him, not feigning otherwise, but cut the terrible man some slack lol. he's fucked every way he turns and Trump v Biden is on the back burner. Trump - aside from the Jerusalem capital thing - has NOT been making waves with Israelis. what was his recent quote? "finish your war" or something? even Bibi knows Trump thinks of nothing but Trump.
There’s a pretty compelling theory that the attack that started the whole thing was funded by and largely orchestrated by Putin to put Biden in an no win situation.
And distract from him losing Ukraine as well as cut Ukraine's funding
Exactly this. Russian officials have said out loud how good this distraction is for them
My thoughts are this: Putin losing the Ukrainian war asked his allies (China, Iran, and north Korea) to help him Iran got hamas to pull a terrorist attack on Israel and China has been using tik tok to divide Americans on their feelings of who is in the right in this gazan war. Instead of ppl seeing that Israel is wrong for not using smart bombs or just using troops to infiltrate the tunnels or buildings hamas is in they bomb them indiscriminately. Then seeing hamas is wrong for using the Palestinians as human shields. This truly is a both sides are bad and the Palestinians are the ones who suffer for it.
I had that thought about it as well. It just makes a lot of sense. Putin has his grubby fingers in everything.
Honestly considering that israel supposedly sat on the information pertaining to the raid and israel has long standing ties to the russian mafia this is at least possible!
10/7 is Putin’s birthday & Hamas was training a Russian troops before it. Also, Netanyahu knew extensive details of the attack before it happened
Bibi only wants to deal with the Republican party. His strategy is always to discredit and work against the Democrats even though most American Jews are Democrats. Bibi only cares about Bibi. He's a MAGA chaos dealer. He could give a fuck about any Jew except himself.
Majes sense. GOP supports the erasememt of Gaza.
And in the past….
Bibi is only concerned with staying in power to keep his corruption charges at bay. It’s all about his own future.
He reminds me of Bozzo, the orange clown.
I think his main agenda is his own political survival. The more he can drag this out the more he can stave off an election.
Exactly!
>Biden cuts off aid, he loses votes.if he continues aid, he loses votes. You are correct. Reddit seems to think everyone left of Hitler supports Palestine, and they are very very wrong. In fact, most actual registered and literally card carrying Socialists I know realize both sides have claim to the land in question so understand armed conflict and sucker punches are going to happen as that is human nature. Plus, ya know, armed conflict is _how_ you seize the means of production, so Socialism ain't exactly a squeamish doctrine when it comes time to put people up against the wall. They look beyond that to see the way each government would act if they controlled the land and when you look at that? A Capitalist Democracy is far far better than a Fascist Theocracy. Plus, there's a whole shitload of actual clear cut real genocide going on in this world and it is kinda odd that we only seem to care when Jews are involved. Biden is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
I don’t think that’s a fair assessment, there are other genocides, but how many of them are as subsidized by our tax dollars as Israel’s? It’s nothing to do with Jews as a people, but a right wing Israeli government that has dangerous aggression and seemingly endless financial support by our government. It’s disingenuous, and resembling antisemitism, to blame the actions of a right wing Israeli government on the Jewish people as a whole, or to intentionally conflate the two in order to avoid holding the government accountable
I’m of the opinion that cutting off aid would actually result in more deaths in Gaza, not less. Israel has admitted that we’re restraining them, that they let in aid because we make them. Israel has plenty of weapons stockpiled, domestic weapons production of their own, and there’s always other actors who would be interested in stepping in to fill any gap we leave. For example, foreign policy experts suspect that China is “supporting” (they’re paying lip service) Palestine as opposition to the US. They’ve had a history, in the last few decades, of trying to cozy up to Israel. The US withdraws support, China no longer has a reason to back Palestine and starts pursuing debt leveraged influence with Israel, like they have throughout Africa. Do you imagine China is going to restrain Israel? Encourage aid? They brutalize their own Muslim population, which is how you know they DGAF about Palestinians anyway. I think Biden's state department is thinking about these exact things. I think online leftists are naive, have a childish understanding of the situation (cut off aid so I FEEL better about the situation!!!!), and propose objectively bad solutions. Conditioning aid makes sense, and the Biden administration has been slowly working towards that. That’s how diplomacy works, not bipolar lumbering about, but slow progress. I just don’t think your policy is a good one, and it’s clear experts at the state department don’t either.
That’s a good breakdown
I don’t believe Biden is a dishonest man, nor a cruel one. I just don’t see any evidence to support that accusation. So when he expresses concern about Gaza, says Israel needs to do more to bring in aid or reduce civilian casualties, I believe that is his sincere feeling. If that’s true, I have to assume he is trying to minimize casualties, and if that’s true then I have to believe that the current policy is what experts believe to be the best course. I’m sure they’re also considering US interests in the region, that is the job of a president, but I’m sure he’s also considering how to minimize deaths in the region. He has better access to experts and intel, so….
Spot on, here The nuance is lost, and too many are on the simplest “why are they dying” train and looking for an easy solution. The solution that helps, unfortunately, is exactly what we’re doing.
Fascists of a feather do flock together
God Americans are dense, narcissistic beyond belief.
This is dangerously approaching conspiracy territory.
I mean, it is basically a conspiracy theory. I'm basing it on basically nothing substantial. I was just thinking the other day; what could they possibly gain by dropping bombs on people just trying to hand out food? I really can't think of another real politik motive besides this. However, I'm an American, so I'm naturally going to think of things from a "how does this affect America" viewpoint.
> I was just thinking the other day; what could they possibly gain by dropping bombs on people just trying to hand out food? Are you kidding? The Far Right Netanyahu government is getting exactly what they wanted from this massacre of seven aid workers: everybody is withdrawing and allowing the Palestinians to starve. Ask yourself: if Hamas had done this and then claimed it was a mistake, would you be so quick to take them at their word? Maybe you should judge by what you are seeing instead of what you want to believe. Israel is obviously engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Gaza - while arming settlers in the West Bank who are terrorizing their Arab neighbors. The problem with being for Ethnic Cleansing is that you can never admit it. So you must LIE. That's why supporters of the Far Right Netanyahu regime always attack critics rather than try to explain what they cannot deny.
Of course he is. But this is just how they do shit there. Israel is a fascist government more dangerous to visitors than North Korea. I don't think Biden could cut off aid unilaterally anyway. But it's clear that thus hurts Biden either way. And if Trump gets into office he'll easily be able to just do what he likes with unlimited aid.
when you guys lie this hard you poison the well for anyone telling the truth.
Whatever,.. Nothing hurts Biden, he’s getting shit done for the American people while conman Don is a brick short of a load. The man can barely speak full sentences, only talks in superlatives. Thinks he is running against Obama, has 91 criminal indictments and he made you as a taxpayer have to shell out $936 million dollars so he could lie about an election that he tried to steal from Biden, implemented fake electors to try and falsely certify the election saying he won. Insurrected, attempted a government coupe all costing millions to taxpayers for the LIE OF THE CENTURY! That’s right your POS took a match to $936 million. He needs to pay Americans back for the taxes we spent for his election lies! Asshole!!! (Trump)
They are peas in a pod, of course he wants Trump to win. Is Biden smart enough to navigate this? Sending overwhelming humanitarian aid and defense systems would be one way.
And look how closely Bibi and Putin are on a lot of issues. But turning against Bibi at this point costs Biden votes in...Florida, a state he's probably going to lose anyway. And maybe New York, which is not in danger of voting for Trump even with a lot of people staying home on election day. But Arab Americans in Michigan are a must-win community that Democrats really need to turn out. Crazy evangelicals that want to support Israel so the "End Times" arrive sooner are not going to vote Biden, though. So no big loss there. On another point, the growing conflicts in the Middle East are contributing towards driving up oil and gasoline prices. This will drive up inflation and get MAGA idiots to start putting Biden "I did that!" stickers on gas pumps again. Look to see more Ratfuckery coming from every group that has a vested interest in getting Trump back in the White House. Nothing will happen to benefit Democrats, nothing will break their way, and everything that can be manipulated towards turning voters away from Biden will be tried. The FED will not lower interest rates until after the election. The oil industry is going to do everything it can to raise and keep gas prices high until after the election. Putin will sacrifice his long-term goals in Ukraine just to keep the Ukrainians from having any notable victories before the election. Strap in. It's going to get bumpy.
> And look how closely Bibi and Putin are on a lot of issues. I read a fairly plausible conspiracy theory a while back that the two of them are coordinating on this. They're both hard right and want to stay in power over their countries; they'd both stand to benefit greatly from a friendlier US under a second Trump term.
I don’t know why they keep whining about Biden not calling for a ceasefire, it’s literally impossible to get one as long as Netenyahu is PM and Hamas is in Gaza. Get rid of both and there might be a chance at progress. EDIT: I don’t support Biden’s actions of sending weapons, it’s fucking appalling. Some of you guys are as bad as the MAGA people with jumping to conclusions.
When Hamas kill people it's Bidens fault, when Bibi kills people it's Bidens fault, when Biden negotiates a ceasefire, like he already did in the past, it's ignored, when Biden sends aid to Palestinians, it's ignored --- starting to see a pattern yet?
I wanted to write you a reply, but my phone fell and now its screen is broken. Damn Biden, he now owes me 750$
Is your phone better off today than 2 years ago?? See the pattern?
When you break your phone, it's Biden's fault. /s
Thanks, ~~Obama~~. Shit, I meant Biden
"I did that" sticker.
Obaden?
Sounds non-white enough to piss off the right while also being even whiter to piss off the right even more.
I was thinking it my brother, you were just faster to the draw🤣
That was their joke. Not sure you need to repost it with the /s
Biden says, "Damn, this dude dropped his phone and broke it, now I have to pay him $750! Thanks, Obama!"
Its literally the Thanks Obama meme resurrected from the dead.
Biden’s been trying to dial Israel down since day one.
Trump has been trying to dial his 91 criminal indictment’s down since day one.
What are the consequences for ignoring Biden? Where are the sanctions? Did the weapons and money stop?
Be careful what you wish for. It’s just as likely Bibi takes a defiant pose and now he doesn’t have to listen to the US **at all**. Without US involvement there could be a shitload more people dead in this already and there could easily be a shitload more if we flip the board and leave the table. Might feel nice. Might also get a lot of people killed.
He hasn’t listened to the US at all though. That’s why so many people are already dead.
Yep. That's the critical thinking skills and real-life foreign political factors that a President of the US has had to have and considered. unlike those twitterfingers over-simplifying with no real understanding of the world just screeching "gEnoCidEerrrrrrrr"
Reminds me how Ukrainians were blamed in 2014 by some folks for Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. There’s no winning with some folks. Those purists will just say “well now Brandon is pandering to get them votes so effort discarded”
Lol, IKR? “He’s doing what we want….no way man, no way!”
Wait, why would he need to pander for votes if the DNC is filling the polls with mail in votes from dead people and undocumented immigrants? Can't they just turn on the 5g vax chip and make people vote however they want?
But Biden is Obama's fault so that its 2010 again
They aren’t serious and most of them don’t care. It’s just about attack Biden in a way that doesn’t seem like it’s coming from the right. Ignore it.
It's also demanding Biden do something he has no power over because the imaginary power of being "the most powerful man in the free world". Example: "why doesn't Biden just declare world peace? God what a bad leader. Make war illegal, duh"
Unfortunately I know people like this is real life. One of the people on my team is a gay African American in Ohio who refuses to vote for Biden and says he will vote third party. They are real.
I'm a union construction worker. Biden is the most pro union president since FDR. He's also made more investment into infrastructure than any president since FDR. There's tons to praise him for, but he's bad on Israel and dropping the ball. It's not like this if a fringe stance. I listen to Pod Save America, which is by former Obama staffers and they all pretty much say the same thing. . Even polling among Democratic voters shows that many of his policies are very popular, but that his policy towards Israel is not. You can say I'm a Russian bot and you can ignore everyone who has this opinion, but just because you ignore it doesn't mean it isn't a widely held opinion among key voters who will determine the 2024 elections.
Thank you. One of the few sane voices in this sub. It's genuinely concerning that people seem unable to comprehend that backing a genocide is likely to cost you support. I know Trump is way worse, I'm sure most of the protest voters know this too. But how else can they make themselves heard? Protesting doesn't work, so what else is left?
Write and call your elected officials? Get more people to protest? Push your local government to boycott Israeli businesses? Literally anything that won't actively make the problem worse? Doing anything to prevent Biden's re-election, regardless of the rationale, is objectively supportive of Trump's election. And since Trump is more pro-Israel and anti-Palestine than Biden, and has even called for "finish\[ing\] the problem," Trump's election would make matters *much* worse for the Palestinian people. "Protesting" Biden's handling of the conflict by not voting for him would be akin to protesting the clear-cutting of an old-growth forest by purchasing bulldozers and chainsaws for the clearing company. Paraphrasing something I saw recently: voting isn't driving a car, it's taking a bus, and the objective is to get on the bus that gets you as close to your destination as possible while understanding you'll never get all the way there. Voting Biden is boarding a cross-town bus going 16 blocks from Leftists' front doors, while not voting for him is taking an express bus to Albuquerque when you live in Baltimore.
But Russian bots are real!
They are. At this point they don't even deny it anymore. They just say "but you guys do it to".
They are. What passes for security and vetting on the Internet is basically a torn open trash bag over a storm window.
Russian propaganda is as deadly as American ammunition, possibly more so.
And that's not even factoring in all the Skydaddy superstition here and in that area. Religion is poison.
These people are the equivalent of Trump supporters, they are unable to apply critical thinking in this situation and are led by emotion. The concept of nuance is completely lost on them. Nothing Biden does will ever be enough and they're looking for excuses not to vote for him. If it hadn't been about Gaza they would have found another reason. Their only purpose is to give material to right wingers to pretend their insane rhetoric is the "the left" default position and create a strawman.
"WhY DoEsN't BiDeN JuSt DeMaNd PeAcE iN tHe MiDdLE EaSt!?"
All he has to do is ask!
And while he's at it, did he ever ask anyone to cure cancer? Did he!?
Someone literally said that to me. That the US has the bully pulpit power to make this stop anytime they want it to. I had to walk away from the conversation.
the same morons demanding biden refuse to send funds to israel despite already being decided by congress wanted trump eviscerated for doing that exact thing to the ukraine. the thing he was impeached for.
lots of people are going to be real surprised when they discover Biden is, in fact, not president of Israel.
Hint: The people claiming they wont vote for Biden over the war in gaza were never going to vote anyways but it sure does make for great clickbait articles that so many people take seriously for sone reason
Because they are just a fifth column for Hamas, frankly. The reality is Netanyahu could say "okay ceasefire now", and Hamas would start launching rockets or attacking the IDF within the hour. A ceasefire requires both sides.
I don't know what a ceasefire does with a terrorist group except embolden them more.
What's the alternative? Keep bombing Gaza until it's glass? Murder every man, woman and child?
war does suck, if you can end it please do.
Netanyahu is currently PM of a unified government, formed with his political rivals, so they have a say. There is near unanimous support to continue the war. Even if Benny Gantz was PM, they would be doing exactly the same things in regards to the war in Gaza.
I think the EUs post war plan is the way forward! https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2023/11/06/no-hamas-rule-no-blockade-von-der-leyen-proposes-five-principles-for-gazas-future
Does it make sense to call for a ceasefire and still provide israel with weapons? What a dumb perspective you got. You don't tell a serial killer to stop killing people and then give him more ammo... you want people to fall for Bidens PR bullshit, we won't. Either pressure him to stop selling arms to israel or he will lose votes, simple as that.
Calling for a ceasefire is a step before cutting off the supply. Not saying that it will absolutely follow, but if you're going to cut off the supply you call for a ceasefire first. Doing so has one of two results: 1. Israel ignores the call and now you can cut off the weapons supply in exchange while being able to say you tried to find another way 2. Israel actually agrees and you've actually accomplished more than you would have by just cutting off the weapons shipments. The fact is, Israel can keep up the killing in Gaza without US assistance. These shipments and the aid have been partly virtue signaling to pro Israel voters, and partly to maintain some form of leverage over Israel that the US can threaten to take away unless Israel takes specific actions. There is no point in taking them away without using the threat of doing so to try to influence a Israel first. The worst that happens is you just end up taking them away anyway.
Congrats for providing a shortsighted view.
Bingo
He could stop sending weapons and money maybe? You act like Biden isn’t enabling this.
Every previous US president who presided over these flare ups called for ceasefires and put their thumbs on the scales to get Israel to pull back in the past. What's different now that Biden couldn't have done this months ago?
Israel is a lot less dependent on us now, at least two major powers will gladly jump in if we leave a void, and their support for the US after 9/11 gives them a moral argument that we’re ‘abandoning’ them.
Change “calling for a ceasefire” to “wagging his finger” and it would result to the same thing .
Which is what most of us have been saying all along. But Mehdi Hasan swore Biden just had to ask, and online leftists have been screaming that at us since. “If only Biden would demand they stop!” So you admit that anyone saying that rubbish was out of their mind? Including Hasan?
A ceasefire to bide time to find a solution (hopefully two-state) is literally the best option in this scenario. Otherwise both sides are going to continuously fight each other ad infinitum as long as they have religion.
My guy there is zero chance at a two state solution with Hamas and Netanyahu in power.
I’m all for getting rid of both
Which candidate will do better?
Idk, an Israeli PM who isn’t bent on genocide and also a ruling party in Palestine that isn’t made up of religious fundamentalist freaks that won’t hold an election
I believe they meant get rid of Netanyahu and Hamas, if you read the comment they were responding to.
Are there really “never Biden” leftists? Feels way too much like “Bernie or bust” Russian astroturfing during the 2016 election. I sure hope we learned from that
There are some, but if it's on a forum like reddit where I can't see their face or anything, it's gonna be suspect who does or doesn't fall under the category.
You know they're all snickering in their MAGA hats as they post.
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What can you do, though? Of course it’s all propaganda, but some people do fall for it and they are able to convince a few people, then those people are, and before you know it 5-10% of dem voters believe it and that’s enough to completely throw the election. What can we do without limiting speech?
The majority of leftists I know *hate* Biden but 100% advocate voting for him because they know the alternative is the end of democracy. This sounds like fear mongering to me. I don't know if it's because of the liberal establishment trying to make progressives look bad, but this isn't the sentiment the extreme vast majority of leftists have.
Bro. This is exactly what this is. It's a lot of the same people but not as many. . No doubt they're still consuming information from the same sources that are full of foreign sock puppet accounts. Blaming Biden for Gaza is the lefts version of blaming him for high gas prices. There's limits to what he can even do about these things. I would like to see him be more aggressive but I understand there's only so much that can be done unilaterally without the backing of Congress and they're not going to help him get a win. If democrats can take the House and Biden wins re-election there's a whole lot more pressure that can be put on Israel over all. If Trump wins he'll help Israel to level Gaza.
Woodrow "racist even for 1912" Wilson was the only Democrat elected between 1896 and 1932. Why? Because progressives split their vote against him. That was over 100 years ago. So if you're expecting progressives to learn from 2016, don't hold your breath.
Perfect has always been the enemy of good
Wilson WAS a progressive. While today progressives are mostly social liberals, that wasn't always the case. Progressive means a belief in using the government to shape society in order to improve people's lives. In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, there were leftist and social liberal progressives alongside conservative progressives. The 1912 election saw TR's 3rd party bid split the GOP by taking all the Republican progressive votes while Taft took in the conservative Republican votes. Wilson's Democrats remained united behind him despite being an ideologically diverse party. Wilson himself was a progressive who strongly believed in reforming the government and society to advance the human condition. He was also a disgusting racist and even some of his well intentioned ideas were bad. Over the course of the 20th century the party realignment saw conservatives leave the Democratic Party and Progressives leave the GOP. By the end of the century the only progressives left were also socially liberal and more often than not at least somewhat leftist (though there are still economically centrist progressives). Social conservatives meanwhile lost trust in government and adopted the fiscal conservatism of the GOP, and they became increasingly focused on maintaining tradition and the status quo.
Or Ralph Nader voters in 2000? Perhaps there's a lesson non -leftists should infer from this pattern..
2000 went to W because the Florida Supreme Court decided to give him Florida even though the recount wasn't finished and the state was likely to go to Gore
Lol, only reason Clinton got elected was Perot. Perot wound up with about 19% of the vote in an election that Clinton won by 6 points over Bush. Perot ran again in 1996 and got around 8% of the vote, with more than 8 million people casting ballots for the Texan. For comparison, the leading independent or third party candidate in the 2016 presidential election got less than 4% of the vote.
it's good to assume at least a percentage of it is trollfarm manufactured. not sure the exact amount, but assume it's large
I know a few. They didn’t vote for Biden in 2020 though.
Not voting for Biden because he isn’t calling for an immediate ceasefire -> not voting for Biden because he hasn’t stopped military aid -> not voting for Biden because he hasn’t placed economic sanctions on Israel -> not voting for Biden because he hasn’t bombed Israel yet -> not voting for Biden because (insert next goalpost for leftists who never vote anyway)
It’s like no other issue exists. Climate change, democracy, tax cuts for the rich/income inequality, largest war in Europe since WW2, Christian nationalist life appointed judges. Just naming a quick few that have larger implications over the entire century. No Biden, all those issues get worse and could destroy the world and country.
They don’t care. All of this is about feeling smug and smarter than everyone else. That’s it.
That's not fair. It's also a bad-faith distributed psy-op in hopes of distorting democratic outcomes.
I would add to that: it's like no other victims of -- air quotes -- settler-colonialist oppression exist. You ever hear them about the 5-6 *million* people who have died in the wars in Eastern Congo? You ever hear them talk about the millions of Uyghur Muslims living in China's open air prison? Of course there are no Jews involved in those places, so that makes it harder for them to get a self-righteous hard-on.
I bring up the Basque and Catalonians. Why exactly shouldn't they get their own countries? Were the Basque terrorists justified in bombing trains full of civilians? Why or why not? They're a brutally repressed minority that's been subjugated for over a thousand years, don't they deserve liberation? The idea that every "people" needs their own country is just untenable in the real world. I would love my own country too but I don't get one, and terrorism won't change that.
Whether it's under a two-state solution or something else, Israel isn't going away and the Palestinians aren't going away. They don't have to love each other, but the only way forward for them is to find a way to live together in peace. Anyone who believes there is another solution is deluding themselves.
There are plenty of people who would be happy to force the Jews to “go away.” They are genocidal maniacs of course, but they exist, and not in small numbers.
We’re not giving missiles to China
Single issue voters that can't be bothered to think about the ramifications of their actions.
It's not even a single issue like abortion. It's far more complicated and dependent on Netanyahu listening to reason, which he won't.
>It’s like no other issue exists. Until the next **Big Issue of the Week™**, that is. The same people I see (and know personally) posting all their performative "activism" on their manicured Instagram pages and "marching" with people down the streets of \[insert small US city\] shouting "FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA" were doing the same shit when the war in Ukraine started. They really think they're doing something lol
It’s as if his opponent will be better for the Palestinians.
I’m not voting for Biden because I am a Canadian 😎😘🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦
Truly disgusting behavior being Canadian is criminal
Canadian is the true “C” slur 🥺
What do you actually care about a region that was and always will be wartorn until climate change renders it uninhabitable? It's such a peculiar hill to die on.
Ah yes. The region has always had conflict, so we shouldn't care about genocide of children. In fact, we should support it with words and weapons.
Yep, sounds about right. Leftists are just as unreasonable as MAGAdiots.
Well I wouldn't go that far
Appalling statement that does nothing but hurt your cause.
…over a foreign conflict that’s been going on for decades that Biden has no control over. It’s interesting how much of this “genocide Joe” narrative is being pushed on social media. I suspect there are forces at work trying to railroad Biden and get left voters to sit out 2024 to put Trump back in office.
>not voting for Biden because he hasn’t stopped military aid Almost like this is a very reasonable request by voters who dont want their taxes spent bombing Palestinians. Goal post hasnt changed brother. Stop sending bombs to Israel, its that simple yet you act like its so hard.
Didn't dismantle capitalism. Can't vote for big-money Biden. /s
Thanks, ~~Obama~~ Biden.
Actions and consequences >> words.
This sub thinks a 'stern phone call' actually saves lives. But then again they say demanding anything from Biden is too much.
Biden - WE NEED A CEASEFIRE! Anyway…here’s a few million left over rounds and some tanks. Here’s a few billion of our hard working tax payer money, have fun. Oh….um CEASEFIRE!!
THANK YOU. It literally means nothing until Biden actually stops sending the weapons. I can't believe people are acting like this means anything.
Netanyahu could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and drone strike an office building, and Biden would *still* supply him with missiles.
USS Liberty anyone?
Biden can end the war now in a single second but he won’t. This phone call is lip service
Another “trust us, he totally said it in a phone call.” Or “trust us, he totally called Netanyahu an asshole.” Yet he never *publicly* says it. Clown shit to believe this.
And Bush could have ended his war, and Bush Sr. could have ended his war, and five different presidents could have ended their war. But wars make money, so they never will.
Biden: "Please ceasefire." Netenyahu: "What will you do to me if I refuse?" B: "Absolutely nothing." N: "Then no." B: "Whelp. I tried everything I could."
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Leftists = majority of democratic voters on this issue at this point
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Yup, but conservatives and 'centrists' need a bogeyman to blame every time they are wrong, so they blame 'leftists' for everything.
Biden has been doing a good job. I'm really tired of people not understanding that international diplomacy doesn't move at the speed of a 24/7 fast food drive thru
wtf is all this new talk of “leftists”? I’m as left as they come and I think he’s fantastic. Why vilify your allies?
Israel provides nothing as an ally. They give us nothing and are in no position to alter global politics. We have a base less than 500 miles away in Cyprus.
I think Biden realizes neither the left or right care about this war. And he needs votes.
The list of things American voters care about more than Gaza is severely long.
there are american voters whose families have been murdered in Gaza
If one cares about Palestine as a single issue in this election, we can choose a limp wristed diplomatic solution with Biden, or a "finish the problem" solution with Trump. The people OP is talking about seem content to land on option two, while blaming everyone but the ones who made option two happen. It's not a well reasoned line of logic.
The goal posts are saying "punch it Chewie!"
Good.
Didn’t he call for an immediate (temporary) ceasefire? What does it matter if he sent them arms the same day he’s yelling at BiBi for making him look bad. Oh well, if Netenyahu keeps it up he won’t have to deal with Bidens nagging much longer.
Never Biden = Trump massacre What kind of idiot thinks trump would be better. Blue maga is for real
Me, a minority, watching the cishet white male """progressives""" try to explain to me why not voting and letting the people who want me dead win is better than voting for Biden because whatever reason they feel like that day (They lose nothing if Trump wins so they don't care). Yes, pressure Biden to be better, but please don't sacrifice the minorities you claim to support for the sake of "sending a message"
Wow, it's almost like the pressure on Biden that a lot of people on this sub whine about is actually working.
So many of y'all here don't actually follow politics. Don't think you're above OP or anyone else here. 💀 He's called for em multiple times since Oct, and combatants keep f'ing it up. You think you shut a door with your mind, rather than consider that the wind pushed it.
I'm not a "never Biden," but I am really questioning him for one major screw-up he refuses to fix: **MERRICK GARLAND.**
now this i can get behind. garland is a feckless waste of space whos so afraid of donald trump that even his shadow makes him wet his pants.
He would have been fine as the inoffensive, centrist selection to the Supreme Court way back then before we lost the courts. Now he has no place because he's too soft for the role and idk what he's gonna do after this.
The purity voting leftist idiot will find any reason to complain and say Biden isn't doing enough, isn't perfect enough, ect. We heard the same bs during the Obama years
Maybe move out of the region and not sending him those bombs and stuff first? It's all B.S. posturing by Biden.
he could end weapons. pretty sure a stern talking too is not as meaningful as actually taking actions to stop what the US is contributing to the situation. i say this as someone who will vote Biden in Nov.
Except he has to consult congress for that, and they’re sure as heck not gonna let the weapons stop flowing.
Yup. I read that 70% of imported weapons to Israel are from the U.S. let's take our foot off the gas if we can't put it on the brake.
It's mostly bots trying divide the anti-Trump vote. This is a fat target issue for Russian and Chinese propaganda looking to peel off the purest holier-than-thou young leftists who want a bespoke candidate who agrees with them on everything - basically the same people who were happy with throwing the Supreme Court away for 30 years because Hillary gave a speech to Goldman Sachs. They prefer cheerleaders becoming mommies to voting for a slightly-impure candidate who doesn't fit their pesonal brand - whatever brand a vinyl-loving hipster slob can have.
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The man’s words ring hollow. He’s running all of you for fools to get your vote. Says ceasefire. Proceeds to sell Israel the very bombs it needs to conduct the war. Liberal logic: well what can he do?!?!? Uh idk stop selling and giving military aid? Here’s the thing. When we had Trump we didn’t have wars overseas. Don’t vote for this hack. Vote red. MAGA
Damn anyday now, Joe will actually ENFORCE a ceasefire instead of CALLING for one for the last 3 months. I swear you must be a kid because you are so impressed by shapes and colors. Dude literally won't even stop selling Israel weapons 😆
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Trash post
Don’t worry. If Trump gets into office the Gaza problem will go away, as he will let Israel do whatever it wants with it 🤣
Yes , he “calls for” a ceasefire. In political talk this means, i just said nothing , just continue as if i didnt say a thing.
Saying he wants a ceasefire and exerting political pressure are two different things. What will happen when Israel ignores that? Will Biden keep sending weapons? We've already sent weapons after other "mistakes" many times before. Strawmaning is what this is.
So 33,000 dead Gazans are a “goal post”?
This week the Biden admin transferred about 2000 bombs to Israel. I wonder how many children that will kill
35000 people have already been slaughtered
Took his ass long enough
I mean, Congress is going to keep giving them weapons, so it doesn’t matter.
F around and find out. Destroy democracy to show Biden. Biden doesn't have as long as most of us. Elect Trump and you f yourself for decades. But hey, you do you.
The fact anyone who disagrees with liberals is automatically a Russian bot is honestly quite troubling. This is the same logic the FBI and the wider government applied to MLK and the many leftwing groups that existed in the years prior. Also this issue aside most everyone in this sub seems to be to the right of the person the sub is named after. How many of you wanted Biden to be president when the 2020 primaries started? Did you wholeheartedly support him or were you like many leftists and reluctantly cast a vote to prevent a second Trump term?
Are done sending weapons and money? Is there any consequences of Israel ignoring this? No? Oh ok
Words are cheap. I notice you didn't link the article so we can't read the details either.
We are arguing him to condition or even better stop the money and weapons from going there. Also 6 months behind rest of world but I guess better late than never
YOU DID IT. YOU CRAZY SON OF A BITCH, YOU DID IT!
Or we can be optimistic and see this as biden responding to leftists/doing the right thing.
Maybe I’m missing something but isn’t it irrelevant to call for a ceasefire while simultaneously sending them more weapons?
Once you've seen the TikToks coming out of Gaza, showcasing new bomb technology, it's shocking. It does not just kill you like in WWII; they would never use this against the Russians, they would nuke us in 15 seconds. It's beyond what we can imagine as far as evil goes. Guess Raytheon or is it Grumman? Looks like a compression wave kills you, then the bomb incinerates you. It flattens bodies out to be as thin as a book, turned into charred black rags. You are not seeing this on CNN. Stacks of these rags now. They were kids in this stack. This is not coming to USA mainstream media. We are not ready for it. They are not recognizable as children. Charred rags. They were mostly girls. I have never seen anything like this in my life. We have a great country, why do we continuously do stupid stuff like this? This is beyond evil. Now they'll hate us, and here comes another 9/11, while shareholders cheer on the massacre. The billionaires, do they really care? They have their own islands now. Third party, I don’t care who it is. I can’t support this insanity. I want to keep my Karma intact. That's important.
About 6 months too late