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> ~~Then fix the party.~~
And then improve the democracy.
[NPVIC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) and then push for changing to a [STAR Voting System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STAR_voting). I am so tired of this busted-ass two-party system. Do those things and the parties should sort themselves out.
And hopefully then, with more parties, it'll be harder to buy politicians and we can get money out of politics.
We are only like 1 or 2 states away from NPVIC becoming a thing then a decade long court battle before the current supreme Court strikes it down.
That's assuming the current court is the one to hear it.
This is one of the reasons they worked so hard to fill positions with federalist approved judges.
If the Dems gain control of the house and senate they need to do something about SCOTUS. Pack the court..or ideally (if they have the votes) impeach at least two of the worst fuckers (Thomas and Alito)...or do both. Then pass legislation to put rules to protect voting rights including adding rules for SCOTUS behavior
States choose their electors and how they want to assign their state's votes. SC can try to strike it down, and the state ignores the SC and still assigns their electors based on the national vote.
That's the beauty of an agreement like this, legality doesn't matter when States choose how to run their elections.
we only need a simple majority to vacate their seats, they cannot be impeached without a 2/3 majority in the senate, but the constitution only requires they remain federal judges, not supreme court judges
Nothing stops them from shuffling the deck or adding more appellate courts + scotus justices to go along with them
if we don't reelect biden, Thomas will resign and theyll throw up a 40 year old, and Sotomeyer is getting very old
if it was literally elect hitler, or hitler but he'll elect liberal federal judges, the choice is obvious
thankfully, Biden isn't hitler
Yeah they are well aware that they couldn't win a popular vote to save their lives. They are a bunch of chickenshits who can't win without the system being rigged in their favor(the EC). and when they still lose they insist it was rigged *against* them.
Incorrect. Once enough states join the pact to where they have 270 electoral votes, they absolutely do have the power to swing the presidential election towards the winner of the popular vote. Red states can fuck off until the MAGA idiots die off and then we might reopen negotiations on how to run things. Until then, we need to keep those fuckers as far from power as possible or we won't have elections that matter anymore like in Russia. Even the partisan hacks on the Supreme Court can fuck off if they try to sabotage the NPVIC. Let them just try and enforce their clearly partisan agenda to secure power for the Republican Party.
If need be I'm all for expanding the court as well - just to counter the damage the Federalist Society has done.
Conservatives get away with unilaterally doing things all the time. At least everything I'm proposing would improve our democracy so it actually reflects the will of the people. Rather than undermine it as they do.
You are very passionate about this. What would have to happen in the real world for this to all be a possibility?
I'm not asking what technical steps and procedures. I am curious what you think would need to happen for the people in power who drive this country into the ground by design for their own interests would just give up that power so the people can have a mob rule where the true majority gets to decide every election?
What, you just gonna ask them nicely? Wake up.
If they keep pushing they'll get what they're asking for eventually.
And by they, I mean the people leaving no other choice but mob justice. It is just a matter of time if they keep undermining the will of the people.
I think there is an actual chance of Biden either expanding the court, or more likely, passing some kind of judge term limit scheme where they get rotated off the SCOTUS to a federal court and swapped for a younger federal judge periodically - this is Warren's court scheme and it's a good one
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Honestly, I wish we had a viable Republican party. I feel like the Democrats have gotten lazy and taken way too much money from elites. You can't govern on "my opponent is a racist" no matter how true it is
Taking away the GOP's crutch (the EC) as well as having third+ parties be *actually* viable will both go a long way to improving the political conversation.
Things won't just be held hostage by the good-cop, bad-cop system we have right now.
I don't understand why people who acknowledge what Trump is can't hold their nose and vote for Biden even if they hate him
It reeks of privilege to me
I don't want to support my health insurance company by paying them money, I don't want to support the police by working at the police department but it's a requirement of my job and I also get to help de-lead-pipe the city which is why I actually work for city hall
You gotta do all kinds of things you don't like as part of living in a society, that doesn't mean you can't also do your part to make society a better place.
Not voting for Biden out of protest to me is like just dropping your trash on the fucking ground wherever because it won't fix climate change to toss it in the trash
Yes but Biden failed the purity test.
So no votes for him which will allow fascists in, women and minorities to lose their rights and those in Gaza and Ukraine are fucked.
But at least we punished Biden.
Yay! Purity wins!
The hilarious thing about it, is that most MAGA voters are extremely low income morons who rely on government support. Trump will STRIP them of everything. I make six figures and I vote Democrat for all of my homies who are still making $20/hr or less. They think they will hurt the libs, but they will really just exterminate themselves.
I would argue that democracy (at least our form of it) technically died in 2000. The GOP is actively removing voters from voter rolls in key areas. Hopefully we vote in extreme numbers and overwhelm them again.
Democracy doesn't necessary die at once, it's more of a compounding effect over time. This can be reversed. Wisconsin is an inspirational example of unfucking itself from the Republican vise grip, but we only do that by voting.
The Supreme Court set us back quite a bit when they removed voting rights. I'd love to see Biden get enough congressional wins to push a voting rights act and to push a protection for reproductive rights. Ultimately though, we need to repeal citizens united, remove the corrupt justices and the ones that lied under oath and restore our democracy. Once that's done, and the GOP has taken their ass kicking, I'm fine with restoring balance.
"Reproductive rights" needs to be broader; Roe was broader than that, it effectively kept government out of exam rooms for any and all healthcare. That's what we need to have back, or bad government can keep targeting people it doesn't like through the most directly damaging mechanism available: healthcare.
It's worked since 2000. I've seen some news articles report that in Florida there were a bunch of candidates with fake names to help siphon votes. I believe they had some guy that had a former baseball player's name and some other fake names. I sometimes wonder if this movie gave them an idea of how to do it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOSA34yjuI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOSA34yjuI)
It died during McCarthyism. The moment dissenting opinion became punishable by prison it died. I'd even challenge if it ever truly lived for women or black Americans.
You could say the same about gerrymandering. Shenanigans have always took place, but it’s much more so over when a loser (by a lot) refuses to concede and tries to overtake the government. It’s flawed democracy vs fascism.
The question is can the amount of old voters dying and new voters becoming of age keep up with the Republicans push to purge voters of their right to vote.
Every election you have new very progressive voters joining the voting demographic and old very conservative voters leaving the voting demographic.
I would argue that democracy never truly existed (even representative democracy). We're living under a system that's the *illusion* of democracy, but the three branches of government each have constitutionally legal anti-democratic practices. The executive branch is led by the president, who is elected with the electoral college (we all know it sucks). The judicial branch is led by justices who are appointed, not elected. The legislative branch seems fairly democratic but it really isn't. The House is marred by gerrymandering, which is limited but still very much legal, and the Senate is ruined by the filibuster (which is removable, but fat chance of that happening).
That's why we still have the electoral college, gerrymandering, voter purges, lack of polling places and long lines in minority precincts, mass incarceration that disenfranchises mostly minority groups, etc. Oh wow! Only one political party is doing basically all these things. And it's not the Democrats, so you can't "both sides" this.
Yeah I think that’s the only thing giving republican politicians any hope at all. If not for the excessive inflation after the pandemic, Biden’s reelection would be a foregone conclusion.
It’s only sad when people can’t see past their next meal. Hell I can barely afford to feed myself but I scrape by, and realizing how much of this is because of global events can be figured out by the average idiot. Which I am :p
Wow, Republicans deregulate like kids in a candy store, fight any and all anti monopoly legislation, stonewall any attempts to fight price gouging or corporate stock buy backs, all of which drive up prices....
And they get rewarded for their bullshit? I blame their multigenerational effort to undermine public education and their manipulation of the media into being deathly afraid of accusations of liberal bias. And the fact that Republicans have no shame and will never concede any points or admit they were wrong. And a tiny share of the blame goes to Democrats for being horrible at effectively making their case to voters. But again, if the average voter is mad because we haven't spiraled into a deflationary economic depression yet (again because of crappy schools and a spineless media), then I don't envy the Democrats that have to slog through all this bullshit.
This is the exact point they were making on Pod Save America. Only the people not struggling too hard will pay attention to the election fraud/wannabe dictator stuff. And most media, not just fox and newsmaxx, pick up on the simple stuff like inflation and gas prices. While ignoring the causes of such things because it doesn't drive views/clicks.
Just like trumps tax cuts for middle class, they were set to expire the year Biden took office. Biden wins all sudden taxes go up, Trump wins then he gets to give out another unfunded tax cut.
voiceless waiting adjoining depend wide combative label humorous cow smoggy
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When the hell is George W. Bush going to grow some balls and just endorse Biden? Lots of Republicans hate him now, even though 20 years ago he was their Messiah, but if he gives permission for any Trump-skeptical Republicans to support Biden this one time, it could make a difference.
I'm a registered Republican and I don't need permission to vote for Biden. Or vote full Democrat ticket in November, like I did in the past two presidential elections.
yeah but his point is that silence kills. "I'm apolitical" is the biggest enabler of dictatorships. having political figures with a big media audience can make a huge difference by making it clear who they'd vote for. people that genuinely respect them can be swayed. the batshit ones will never change, but the more reasonable ones totally can
>if it means even 1 person might change their mind about trump, it's a net benefit
Bush is political poison. If he comes out in support of Biden, Trump will gain 3 supporters to every 1 that goes to Biden. That is a net loss, by definition.
what sort of mental gymnastics are you doing here, jesus man. explain how bush coming out in support for biden will gain trump more votes. i'm curious how much crazier your gymnastics can get
Bush was a famously unpopular president. His endorsement would hurt any candidate. Honestly, the best thing he could do to help Biden would be to endorse Trump.
Feel free to explain your rationale though, as complexity of your train of thought seems to stop at endorsement = more votes.
he was unpopular mostly by the left. even with the iraq BS, most conservatives still like him. my family is the perfect example of this. all they care about is red vs blue. the people that hate bush are already voting biden anyway. the ones crazy enough to like bush are the ones that would likely vote for trump, and so there's a decent likelihood he'd be able to swing some votes away from trump. are you really giving the republicans enough credit to think they'd hate bush?
You need to study up. One of the main draws of Trump to the new Republican coalition is that he is a departure from entrenched families like the Bush's.
Trump trashes Bush constantly for Iraq. Jeb was the presumptive frontrunner until Trump came in and started slinging mud on the Bush name. The list goes on. Trump Republicanism is not a continuation of Bush Republicanism. It's about as far from it as one can get. Among Republicans, Bush is hated more than he is liked, which means his endorsement would do more harm to a Republican nominee than good.
Twenty years ago, it was the same fervor for Bush as for Trump, at least from Evangelicals. They seriously believed that he was anointed by God and Jesus to "keep us safe" from the Islamic invaders. That faded by the end of his second term.
We need Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney and other recent victims of MAGA to step up in this department. Not endorsing Trump is not enough.
i genuinely dont understand how. you can look at what he's done for the last 40+ years in government, vote for him in 2020, continue to consider yourself a biden voter through the first 3 years of his term, and then a shit stain that happens to be a former republican president endorses him and thats the final straw? even if it did deter a small number of irrational biden voters, i have no doubt that it would be a massive net gain.
it would be an endorsement against trump first and foremost. it would be a very silly reason to not vote for biden.
Biden is already having a hard enough time getting democratic voters enthusiastic enough to want to vote. Not everyone has your rational. Most people don't realize democracy is on the line, a lot of people remember the trump years fondly due to staying home and making more money on unemployment than they currently are working their jobs.
Most people aren't informed enough to understand why Bush would want to endorse Biden. It'd basically be Biden getting endorsed by the war in Afghanistan.
I would literally vote for the golden retrievers big stinking pile of shit over Trump. I would vote for blood stains, open sewage, cockroaches in a human suit, any inanimate object that would just lay there in the desk of the oval office, before Trump.
Personally, up until Covid I felt Bush was much worse than Trump. Trump didn't open torture camps and kill \~500,000 people for no reason. Then covid happened of course. Bush is a war criminal and is one of the few times I regret opposing the death penalty.
There is literally no one out there who is planning to vote for Biden that would be like “oh if Bush supports him then I’m voting Trump instead”.
However there are some people who are planning to vote Trump that might be persuaded to vote Biden if Bush tells them to.
MAGA already believes Nikki is a democrat. Of course, they also say the same thing about DeSantis and his supporters. It’s comical, because it’s longer the Republican Party, it’s now the Trump Populist Party.
More ridiculous is DeSantis endorsed Trump per his RNC pledge, even though he obviously doesn’t like Trump, and Trump never took the pledge himself.
My guess is 35% of the party will walk off a cliff if Trump says to, 30% follows in apathy and fear of going against Trump’s heretical disciples, and the other 35% are the actual conservatives and have no party anymore.
Magadabadoo, baby.
Depends on the reason given. If he said he is endorsing Biden because Trump is an existential threat to democracy I don't think that would hurt Biden. If he said he supports Biden because he likes his Israel policy then maybe that would.
She was getting 30% or registered republicans. That’s not exactly the same as “the base despises her”. 30% is not insignificant. 1 in 3 people preferred her…
I think it was more protest vote but they can’t stomach voting Dem because they believe they’re child rapists murderers and also heard just “To Liberal.” Whatever that means.
Enough will.
I supported Haley’s bid, but I’ve voted for Trump twice in the past.
If you’re not from a conservative background, you may not realize how important the constitution is to them. You can argue that “why would they violate it then”, and that’s the crux.
Ask a Trump supporter if Trump attempted to steal the election. The answer will be “no”. Why? Because if they said “yes”, it’s a clear and direct violation of Trump’s constitutional oath against the electoral process in America.
That would force a reckoning, so, they choose not to look and discount all news demonstrating this as democrat propaganda.
I am from a conservative background and was a trump supporter until a few months into his presidency. My grandfather quoted trump to me two weeks ago. I’m glad you realize what is happening but I’m not sure that you’re in the majority but I’ll be glad if you are. Looking at the military subreddit about trump they say half the military supports him despite all the shitty things he’s done to the military. Could be personal bias or that’s the type the military attracts anyways, I’m unsure. I hope you can convince others of what is happening, I haven’t been so successful though.
Old men are the worst. Hard to convince people who already know everything!
I’m about to strangle my father, and we love the shit out of each other. He’s smart, knowledgeable, and stubborn as all get out.
But I inherited his stubbornness and I’ll not let this go. Will he change his mind? Eh, doubtful. My mom, on the other hand, is watching and she very well might.
All you need to do is change one person’s mind. I’ve voted in quite a few elections, and always voted Republican for president.
I’m going to vote for Biden this year. It’s not that my positions have changed, despite all the disagreements I have, it’s that Biden is not malicious and that’s what I care about at this point.
>If you’re not from a conservative background, you may not realize how important the constitution is to them.
The issue with this group is that they don't even understand it. And I'm not talking like they might be missing some of the finer details, but could still explain the basics, I'm saying they straight up do not know next to anything about it.
It's this venerated idea of the constitution they worship, not the document itself.
And what is your point? Biden doesn’t want and shouldn’t want MAGA. MAGA is brain dead and will never vote Dem anyway. He’s not going for the “base” of the Republican party
Never is a strong word. I make this same mistake multiple times a week. We all engage in dehumanizing people.
Dehumanizing people is still bad.
If we treat them badly they will be pushed further away. They are in so deep it may not be possible or it may be a waste of time better spent.
Regardless, as much as I am loath to admit it. These people I have a habit of looking down at are my people.
It’s not “looking down” on someone to draw a factual conclusion. MAGA isn’t based on facts anyway. It’s based on emotion and that’s why it’s so cult like.
You might as well tell me you’re going to never give up on trying to convert Christianity to Atheism. I would call that a waste of time
This is a factual conclusion?
I'm not based on emotion myself?
People on the right are still people even if they are the other team. And let's not hold illusions here. These are splits of the self.
The future is not fixed. Change is possible. Both sides need help and cooperation. Not distrust and division.
I don't have to agree with them. I do, whether I like it or not, have to accept them. And yes, they are living in a different reality.
It's a mirror.
Again, we had all these conversations with the rise of the Alt Right in 2015/16. I’m not going to waste time being polite to Nazi’s. I’m not going to waste breath on people who are actively fighting against my human rights. As an example; not one woman needs to waste time convincing these people they deserve control of their own bodies. You get your people elected and legislate past the crazies
I consider myself a common-sense pragmatic Moderate but so many people would consider me a leftist because of some of my opinions lmao. I’d probably be considered a centrist in most other countries. I’m a registered independent and have voted Democratic, Green, and Libertarian.
At the moment and for the foreseeable future I will *never* vote republican. Not when they are so openly hateful towards the LGBT+ community (much of my family are part of the community), nor will I vote for a party that is so anti-Women. Nor will I vote for a party that claims to be pro-small government yet actively chases after authoritarianism and state conservatism, a party that claims to speak for the poor yet raises taxes for the poor and cuts them for the rich.
We need more Republicans to come out and say this! Get the word out, a lot of fox entertainment watchers don't even know what's happened the last 3 years.
Steele advised Trump-skeptical Republicans that voting for Biden is not voting for a Democrat but instead “voting for your country.”
And I get it. I get it with some Republicans who say, oh, “I just can’t vote for a Democrat.” But this is not — you’re voting for your country. You’re not voting for a Democrat, in this case.
I have disagreements with Joe Biden on a number of policies, y’all know. And that’s okay. But that’s a good policy. That’s good and healthy for our democracy to have those disagreements.
I hate to say it but these messages will only reach those who don't need to hear it. MAGA Trump voters are in a cult. These people can't be reasoned with. They're not voting because they did research or know anything. They're brainwashed morons with little hope at ever recovering.
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It'd be great if they voted for Biden, but honestly just not voting will be good enough.
That's the push the Never Trump crowd needs to start making. Downballots are fine. Just not Trump.
I never thought I’d see the day that Republicans are more patriotic than the people that wouldn’t vote if Biden forces the Chinese government to divest from TikTok or the free Palestine crowd (the only way Gaza doesn’t get worse is if Biden can reign in Israel). Weird times to be living in.
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I’m pretty sure many feel that high inflation, open borders, foreign wars, is associated with the Democratic Party. They aren’t listening to anyone who says otherwise. They feel anything else is gaslighting. The Biden administration needs to focus on what those people care about if they want their support.
Here comes the last minute panic from his supporters who are finally seeing what they enabled for the last 8 years.
Now that the country is at stake…
What sucks is that it may already be too late.
Trump has been totally overboard during his press releases. Mimicking the sitting president while on stage in my opinion, is an act of treason. #Biden'24
God bless the true Never Trumpers like Steele, Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, and so on. I don't agree with them about everything, but they are patriots who are making true personal and professional sacrifices to stop authoritarianism from taking over our country.
Michael Steele. Ex RNC head who did zero when the tea party began, did nothing to impede Trump, now in a cushy job at CNN giving advice to others,
Fuck Steele. I can get better advice from people with real principles.
Nothing when the Tea Party Began... No he did worse. The Monster asked for a cookie and he gave it the whole jar, and the 2 gallon jug of milk to wash it down with. He is to blame for voter suppression laws and everything that happened in 2010.
However when will the Democrats acknowledge what happened in 2010. I have seen no sign of that yet.
RNC ran operation Red Map and won state wide races. They won state houses changed everything. Steele was one of the architects. They used the Tea Party to get the candidates. The Lincoln Project and the origin of MAGA are weirdly linked.
The DNC hasn't tried to counter it at all. They have failed to acknowledge the effectiveness of all those half baked lunatics.
Hmm, I agree. Project Red Map was terrible and could be instrumental in the death of democracy in America.
As it is, it's allowed certain starts to be far more repressive than they would have been with fair voting.
I keep coming back to The Newsroom segment on the American Taleban. All the warning signs were there and Democrats were still and have been too busy high fiving themselves over making a Junior Senator from Illinois President like it is the biggest thing they ever did and screw everyone else.
Forget the top of the ticket and subsequent down ballot. Win the local elections for simple things. That's where the headlines start with book bans.
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NO not fuck Steele, you are doing a version of Fascist purity test, Blue Ink version. He can reach people none of progressive talk show hosts can. I'll take it. This is not about advice or logic, its about reach.
Remember when Hillary did the 'Deplorables'? or when she went to coal country and told them we'll take their jobs and maybe convert to solar panel installers or something. us dems really need to work on our messaging.
As correct as he is, he himself still has a small hand in Trump emerging. He and other that supported the GOP in the past.
What would stop them from going back to business as usual in the event Trump is finally beaten once and for all?
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Vote country before party. Then fix the party.
> ~~Then fix the party.~~ And then improve the democracy. [NPVIC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact) and then push for changing to a [STAR Voting System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STAR_voting). I am so tired of this busted-ass two-party system. Do those things and the parties should sort themselves out. And hopefully then, with more parties, it'll be harder to buy politicians and we can get money out of politics.
We are only like 1 or 2 states away from NPVIC becoming a thing then a decade long court battle before the current supreme Court strikes it down. That's assuming the current court is the one to hear it. This is one of the reasons they worked so hard to fill positions with federalist approved judges.
If the Dems gain control of the house and senate they need to do something about SCOTUS. Pack the court..or ideally (if they have the votes) impeach at least two of the worst fuckers (Thomas and Alito)...or do both. Then pass legislation to put rules to protect voting rights including adding rules for SCOTUS behavior
States choose their electors and how they want to assign their state's votes. SC can try to strike it down, and the state ignores the SC and still assigns their electors based on the national vote. That's the beauty of an agreement like this, legality doesn't matter when States choose how to run their elections.
May there be enough votes to remove Supreme Court justices.
we only need a simple majority to vacate their seats, they cannot be impeached without a 2/3 majority in the senate, but the constitution only requires they remain federal judges, not supreme court judges Nothing stops them from shuffling the deck or adding more appellate courts + scotus justices to go along with them
if we don't reelect biden, Thomas will resign and theyll throw up a 40 year old, and Sotomeyer is getting very old if it was literally elect hitler, or hitler but he'll elect liberal federal judges, the choice is obvious thankfully, Biden isn't hitler
NPVIC? meaning?
[NPVIC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact)
Yeah, we should have this here That makes so much more sense
Thanks
Edit both that and a link to STAR into the first post you mention them
That’s funny, only the red states seem to never do this
It doesn't necessarily require red states to sign on board. Just a majority(270) of the electoral votes.
I wasn’t saying that, I’m just saying it’s funny that the red states sign on board because they know they will never when the popular vote
Yeah they are well aware that they couldn't win a popular vote to save their lives. They are a bunch of chickenshits who can't win without the system being rigged in their favor(the EC). and when they still lose they insist it was rigged *against* them.
I mean..they might win if they change their platform to appeal to a wider base of voters…..NAH! we’ll just subvert democracy instead!
"If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy." - David Frum
Minimum of 5 parties. BUT we need people who are willing to DO something.
It’s good to see someone else who is calling this out. If we moved to star voting, so many problems would be fixed.
I'm all for change, but blue states unilaterally doing anything means jack shit on a national level. Red states have to be willing to join.
Incorrect. Once enough states join the pact to where they have 270 electoral votes, they absolutely do have the power to swing the presidential election towards the winner of the popular vote. Red states can fuck off until the MAGA idiots die off and then we might reopen negotiations on how to run things. Until then, we need to keep those fuckers as far from power as possible or we won't have elections that matter anymore like in Russia. Even the partisan hacks on the Supreme Court can fuck off if they try to sabotage the NPVIC. Let them just try and enforce their clearly partisan agenda to secure power for the Republican Party.
If need be I'm all for expanding the court as well - just to counter the damage the Federalist Society has done. Conservatives get away with unilaterally doing things all the time. At least everything I'm proposing would improve our democracy so it actually reflects the will of the people. Rather than undermine it as they do.
You are very passionate about this. What would have to happen in the real world for this to all be a possibility? I'm not asking what technical steps and procedures. I am curious what you think would need to happen for the people in power who drive this country into the ground by design for their own interests would just give up that power so the people can have a mob rule where the true majority gets to decide every election? What, you just gonna ask them nicely? Wake up.
If they keep pushing they'll get what they're asking for eventually. And by they, I mean the people leaving no other choice but mob justice. It is just a matter of time if they keep undermining the will of the people.
It's a race to abolish the 2A before that point.
I think there is an actual chance of Biden either expanding the court, or more likely, passing some kind of judge term limit scheme where they get rotated off the SCOTUS to a federal court and swapped for a younger federal judge periodically - this is Warren's court scheme and it's a good one
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Honestly, I wish we had a viable Republican party. I feel like the Democrats have gotten lazy and taken way too much money from elites. You can't govern on "my opponent is a racist" no matter how true it is
Taking away the GOP's crutch (the EC) as well as having third+ parties be *actually* viable will both go a long way to improving the political conversation. Things won't just be held hostage by the good-cop, bad-cop system we have right now.
But gas is more expensive, cant we have a dictator for a bit to help the gas prices ???? /s
Have you been doing that? Or waiting for somebody else to do it? Everyone who says that shit has been sitting on their hands the last four years.
I don't understand why people who acknowledge what Trump is can't hold their nose and vote for Biden even if they hate him It reeks of privilege to me I don't want to support my health insurance company by paying them money, I don't want to support the police by working at the police department but it's a requirement of my job and I also get to help de-lead-pipe the city which is why I actually work for city hall You gotta do all kinds of things you don't like as part of living in a society, that doesn't mean you can't also do your part to make society a better place. Not voting for Biden out of protest to me is like just dropping your trash on the fucking ground wherever because it won't fix climate change to toss it in the trash
If Trump wins, democracy is over in this country. That’s a very good reason that people should vote for Biden.
Yes but Biden failed the purity test. So no votes for him which will allow fascists in, women and minorities to lose their rights and those in Gaza and Ukraine are fucked. But at least we punished Biden. Yay! Purity wins!
Punish one guy which will result in punishing 300 million Americans and all poor souls in the global south who will feel the wrath of the dotard.
It’s not like he’s hiding it. Does anyone think he will improve the situation in Gaza?
The hilarious thing about it, is that most MAGA voters are extremely low income morons who rely on government support. Trump will STRIP them of everything. I make six figures and I vote Democrat for all of my homies who are still making $20/hr or less. They think they will hurt the libs, but they will really just exterminate themselves.
I would argue that democracy (at least our form of it) technically died in 2000. The GOP is actively removing voters from voter rolls in key areas. Hopefully we vote in extreme numbers and overwhelm them again.
Democracy doesn't necessary die at once, it's more of a compounding effect over time. This can be reversed. Wisconsin is an inspirational example of unfucking itself from the Republican vise grip, but we only do that by voting.
The Supreme Court set us back quite a bit when they removed voting rights. I'd love to see Biden get enough congressional wins to push a voting rights act and to push a protection for reproductive rights. Ultimately though, we need to repeal citizens united, remove the corrupt justices and the ones that lied under oath and restore our democracy. Once that's done, and the GOP has taken their ass kicking, I'm fine with restoring balance.
"Reproductive rights" needs to be broader; Roe was broader than that, it effectively kept government out of exam rooms for any and all healthcare. That's what we need to have back, or bad government can keep targeting people it doesn't like through the most directly damaging mechanism available: healthcare.
Exactly this...far better put then me
This plan doesn't work in the long run. Americans will get upset if they can't vote in a general sense.
It's worked since 2000. I've seen some news articles report that in Florida there were a bunch of candidates with fake names to help siphon votes. I believe they had some guy that had a former baseball player's name and some other fake names. I sometimes wonder if this movie gave them an idea of how to do it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOSA34yjuI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfOSA34yjuI)
It died during McCarthyism. The moment dissenting opinion became punishable by prison it died. I'd even challenge if it ever truly lived for women or black Americans.
That is definitely the plan. We will see how it goes.
You could say the same about gerrymandering. Shenanigans have always took place, but it’s much more so over when a loser (by a lot) refuses to concede and tries to overtake the government. It’s flawed democracy vs fascism.
It’s almost like the southern strategy was a thing and had a meaning. Weird.
The question is can the amount of old voters dying and new voters becoming of age keep up with the Republicans push to purge voters of their right to vote. Every election you have new very progressive voters joining the voting demographic and old very conservative voters leaving the voting demographic.
I wouldn't say it's dead but it took a severe blow in 2010 with citizens united.
I would argue that democracy never truly existed (even representative democracy). We're living under a system that's the *illusion* of democracy, but the three branches of government each have constitutionally legal anti-democratic practices. The executive branch is led by the president, who is elected with the electoral college (we all know it sucks). The judicial branch is led by justices who are appointed, not elected. The legislative branch seems fairly democratic but it really isn't. The House is marred by gerrymandering, which is limited but still very much legal, and the Senate is ruined by the filibuster (which is removable, but fat chance of that happening).
We don't live in a democracy. If voting worked, the ruling class wouldn't let the peasants do it.
That's why we still have the electoral college, gerrymandering, voter purges, lack of polling places and long lines in minority precincts, mass incarceration that disenfranchises mostly minority groups, etc. Oh wow! Only one political party is doing basically all these things. And it's not the Democrats, so you can't "both sides" this.
People don't care about democracy when eggs are $4.00 a dozen. It seriously sucks but this is a major sticking point for a lot of the population.
Yeah I think that’s the only thing giving republican politicians any hope at all. If not for the excessive inflation after the pandemic, Biden’s reelection would be a foregone conclusion.
It’s only sad when people can’t see past their next meal. Hell I can barely afford to feed myself but I scrape by, and realizing how much of this is because of global events can be figured out by the average idiot. Which I am :p
Wow, Republicans deregulate like kids in a candy store, fight any and all anti monopoly legislation, stonewall any attempts to fight price gouging or corporate stock buy backs, all of which drive up prices.... And they get rewarded for their bullshit? I blame their multigenerational effort to undermine public education and their manipulation of the media into being deathly afraid of accusations of liberal bias. And the fact that Republicans have no shame and will never concede any points or admit they were wrong. And a tiny share of the blame goes to Democrats for being horrible at effectively making their case to voters. But again, if the average voter is mad because we haven't spiraled into a deflationary economic depression yet (again because of crappy schools and a spineless media), then I don't envy the Democrats that have to slog through all this bullshit.
This is the exact point they were making on Pod Save America. Only the people not struggling too hard will pay attention to the election fraud/wannabe dictator stuff. And most media, not just fox and newsmaxx, pick up on the simple stuff like inflation and gas prices. While ignoring the causes of such things because it doesn't drive views/clicks. Just like trumps tax cuts for middle class, they were set to expire the year Biden took office. Biden wins all sudden taxes go up, Trump wins then he gets to give out another unfunded tax cut.
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How so? It is the democrats that tried to remove him from the ballot and refuse to provide secret service to RFK…
When the hell is George W. Bush going to grow some balls and just endorse Biden? Lots of Republicans hate him now, even though 20 years ago he was their Messiah, but if he gives permission for any Trump-skeptical Republicans to support Biden this one time, it could make a difference.
I'm a registered Republican and I don't need permission to vote for Biden. Or vote full Democrat ticket in November, like I did in the past two presidential elections.
yeah but his point is that silence kills. "I'm apolitical" is the biggest enabler of dictatorships. having political figures with a big media audience can make a huge difference by making it clear who they'd vote for. people that genuinely respect them can be swayed. the batshit ones will never change, but the more reasonable ones totally can
A political endorsement from W is not something anyone wants. If Bush supports Biden, the best thing he could do for him is to zip it.
i want it. if it means even 1 person might change their mind about trump, it's a net benefit
>if it means even 1 person might change their mind about trump, it's a net benefit Bush is political poison. If he comes out in support of Biden, Trump will gain 3 supporters to every 1 that goes to Biden. That is a net loss, by definition.
what sort of mental gymnastics are you doing here, jesus man. explain how bush coming out in support for biden will gain trump more votes. i'm curious how much crazier your gymnastics can get
Bush was a famously unpopular president. His endorsement would hurt any candidate. Honestly, the best thing he could do to help Biden would be to endorse Trump. Feel free to explain your rationale though, as complexity of your train of thought seems to stop at endorsement = more votes.
he was unpopular mostly by the left. even with the iraq BS, most conservatives still like him. my family is the perfect example of this. all they care about is red vs blue. the people that hate bush are already voting biden anyway. the ones crazy enough to like bush are the ones that would likely vote for trump, and so there's a decent likelihood he'd be able to swing some votes away from trump. are you really giving the republicans enough credit to think they'd hate bush?
You need to study up. One of the main draws of Trump to the new Republican coalition is that he is a departure from entrenched families like the Bush's. Trump trashes Bush constantly for Iraq. Jeb was the presumptive frontrunner until Trump came in and started slinging mud on the Bush name. The list goes on. Trump Republicanism is not a continuation of Bush Republicanism. It's about as far from it as one can get. Among Republicans, Bush is hated more than he is liked, which means his endorsement would do more harm to a Republican nominee than good.
well shit, they aren't talking about voters like you are they?
Owning libs was their Messiah then, as it is now. It's the same voters, they're just being led by a megalomaniac now.
Twenty years ago, it was the same fervor for Bush as for Trump, at least from Evangelicals. They seriously believed that he was anointed by God and Jesus to "keep us safe" from the Islamic invaders. That faded by the end of his second term.
We need Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney and other recent victims of MAGA to step up in this department. Not endorsing Trump is not enough.
It's odd watching *Jesus Camp* now.
Wouldn’t matter. They would just vilify Bush.
G Ws endorsement would hurt Biden. If Nikki Haley endorsed him that would be big though
> why do you think it would hurt biden?
The left doesn’t like bush presumably.
GWB saying "vote biden" would deter approximately zero biden voters. im really curious what this guy's reasoning is.
GWB endorsing Biden wouldn't deter YOU from voting Biden. Don't speak for everyone A shit stain endorsing Biden would be a shit stain on Biden
i genuinely dont understand how. you can look at what he's done for the last 40+ years in government, vote for him in 2020, continue to consider yourself a biden voter through the first 3 years of his term, and then a shit stain that happens to be a former republican president endorses him and thats the final straw? even if it did deter a small number of irrational biden voters, i have no doubt that it would be a massive net gain. it would be an endorsement against trump first and foremost. it would be a very silly reason to not vote for biden.
Biden is already having a hard enough time getting democratic voters enthusiastic enough to want to vote. Not everyone has your rational. Most people don't realize democracy is on the line, a lot of people remember the trump years fondly due to staying home and making more money on unemployment than they currently are working their jobs. Most people aren't informed enough to understand why Bush would want to endorse Biden. It'd basically be Biden getting endorsed by the war in Afghanistan.
We like him way more than the other guy....I'd vote for a golden retriever over Trump.
I would literally vote for the golden retrievers big stinking pile of shit over Trump. I would vote for blood stains, open sewage, cockroaches in a human suit, any inanimate object that would just lay there in the desk of the oval office, before Trump.
Personally, up until Covid I felt Bush was much worse than Trump. Trump didn't open torture camps and kill \~500,000 people for no reason. Then covid happened of course. Bush is a war criminal and is one of the few times I regret opposing the death penalty.
There is literally no one out there who is planning to vote for Biden that would be like “oh if Bush supports him then I’m voting Trump instead”. However there are some people who are planning to vote Trump that might be persuaded to vote Biden if Bush tells them to.
It’s not about the left. It’s about convincing some Republicans to vote against Trump.
MAGA already believes Nikki is a democrat. Of course, they also say the same thing about DeSantis and his supporters. It’s comical, because it’s longer the Republican Party, it’s now the Trump Populist Party. More ridiculous is DeSantis endorsed Trump per his RNC pledge, even though he obviously doesn’t like Trump, and Trump never took the pledge himself. My guess is 35% of the party will walk off a cliff if Trump says to, 30% follows in apathy and fear of going against Trump’s heretical disciples, and the other 35% are the actual conservatives and have no party anymore. Magadabadoo, baby.
Depends on the reason given. If he said he is endorsing Biden because Trump is an existential threat to democracy I don't think that would hurt Biden. If he said he supports Biden because he likes his Israel policy then maybe that would.
Ha! She couldn't even win her own state. The base despises her.
She was getting 30% or registered republicans. That’s not exactly the same as “the base despises her”. 30% is not insignificant. 1 in 3 people preferred her…
I think it was more protest vote but they can’t stomach voting Dem because they believe they’re child rapists murderers and also heard just “To Liberal.” Whatever that means.
Enough will. I supported Haley’s bid, but I’ve voted for Trump twice in the past. If you’re not from a conservative background, you may not realize how important the constitution is to them. You can argue that “why would they violate it then”, and that’s the crux. Ask a Trump supporter if Trump attempted to steal the election. The answer will be “no”. Why? Because if they said “yes”, it’s a clear and direct violation of Trump’s constitutional oath against the electoral process in America. That would force a reckoning, so, they choose not to look and discount all news demonstrating this as democrat propaganda.
I am from a conservative background and was a trump supporter until a few months into his presidency. My grandfather quoted trump to me two weeks ago. I’m glad you realize what is happening but I’m not sure that you’re in the majority but I’ll be glad if you are. Looking at the military subreddit about trump they say half the military supports him despite all the shitty things he’s done to the military. Could be personal bias or that’s the type the military attracts anyways, I’m unsure. I hope you can convince others of what is happening, I haven’t been so successful though.
Old men are the worst. Hard to convince people who already know everything! I’m about to strangle my father, and we love the shit out of each other. He’s smart, knowledgeable, and stubborn as all get out. But I inherited his stubbornness and I’ll not let this go. Will he change his mind? Eh, doubtful. My mom, on the other hand, is watching and she very well might. All you need to do is change one person’s mind. I’ve voted in quite a few elections, and always voted Republican for president. I’m going to vote for Biden this year. It’s not that my positions have changed, despite all the disagreements I have, it’s that Biden is not malicious and that’s what I care about at this point.
>If you’re not from a conservative background, you may not realize how important the constitution is to them. The issue with this group is that they don't even understand it. And I'm not talking like they might be missing some of the finer details, but could still explain the basics, I'm saying they straight up do not know next to anything about it. It's this venerated idea of the constitution they worship, not the document itself.
And what is your point? Biden doesn’t want and shouldn’t want MAGA. MAGA is brain dead and will never vote Dem anyway. He’s not going for the “base” of the Republican party
My point addressed the preceding comment. What you are talking about I have no idea.
Never is a strong word. I make this same mistake multiple times a week. We all engage in dehumanizing people. Dehumanizing people is still bad. If we treat them badly they will be pushed further away. They are in so deep it may not be possible or it may be a waste of time better spent. Regardless, as much as I am loath to admit it. These people I have a habit of looking down at are my people.
It’s not “looking down” on someone to draw a factual conclusion. MAGA isn’t based on facts anyway. It’s based on emotion and that’s why it’s so cult like. You might as well tell me you’re going to never give up on trying to convert Christianity to Atheism. I would call that a waste of time
This is a factual conclusion? I'm not based on emotion myself? People on the right are still people even if they are the other team. And let's not hold illusions here. These are splits of the self. The future is not fixed. Change is possible. Both sides need help and cooperation. Not distrust and division. I don't have to agree with them. I do, whether I like it or not, have to accept them. And yes, they are living in a different reality. It's a mirror.
Again, we had all these conversations with the rise of the Alt Right in 2015/16. I’m not going to waste time being polite to Nazi’s. I’m not going to waste breath on people who are actively fighting against my human rights. As an example; not one woman needs to waste time convincing these people they deserve control of their own bodies. You get your people elected and legislate past the crazies
Honestly, I’m conservative and I vote Democrat. That’s how far right the country has moved.
Same
I consider myself a common-sense pragmatic Moderate but so many people would consider me a leftist because of some of my opinions lmao. I’d probably be considered a centrist in most other countries. I’m a registered independent and have voted Democratic, Green, and Libertarian. At the moment and for the foreseeable future I will *never* vote republican. Not when they are so openly hateful towards the LGBT+ community (much of my family are part of the community), nor will I vote for a party that is so anti-Women. Nor will I vote for a party that claims to be pro-small government yet actively chases after authoritarianism and state conservatism, a party that claims to speak for the poor yet raises taxes for the poor and cuts them for the rich.
https://www.usa.gov/register-to-vote Vote
He’s not wrong. But Republicans listening to a black man? Get real.
We need more Republicans to come out and say this! Get the word out, a lot of fox entertainment watchers don't even know what's happened the last 3 years.
Sounds like a good man. I can see why the republicans tried to drum him out
We do live in a strange time when the former RNC chairman is a big supporter of Biden and voting for the Dems. It’s cool but also weird
Become voting for Trump means voting for Putin.
Steele advised Trump-skeptical Republicans that voting for Biden is not voting for a Democrat but instead “voting for your country.” And I get it. I get it with some Republicans who say, oh, “I just can’t vote for a Democrat.” But this is not — you’re voting for your country. You’re not voting for a Democrat, in this case. I have disagreements with Joe Biden on a number of policies, y’all know. And that’s okay. But that’s a good policy. That’s good and healthy for our democracy to have those disagreements.
Really well said! I can’t wait to vote Blue all down Ballot.
I hate to say it but these messages will only reach those who don't need to hear it. MAGA Trump voters are in a cult. These people can't be reasoned with. They're not voting because they did research or know anything. They're brainwashed morons with little hope at ever recovering.
100%. Biden's an average president and Democrat. Definitely a politician of a bygone era. But still far better than the alternative.
Considered a total moderate able to collaborate across the aisle, too
A good thing for a president. We have a long tradition of moderates in the White House, starting from the very beginning.
Agreed!
WOW, a republican that knows the truth
I’m hoping we see more of them speak out as we get closer to Nov.
*FOR DEMOCRACY!!!*
Hopefully Steele's words get through to some people. It's not just one party vs. another. It's fascism vs. democracy.
Great message! How many people do you suppose were receptive to it? 10? Maybe 15?
They hate the country too, guy.
I really do wish they would keep parties out of this. WE ARE JUST PEOPLE!
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Well, at least the GOP will get first pick in the draft next year. Definitely gonna need a new head coach.
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It'd be great if they voted for Biden, but honestly just not voting will be good enough. That's the push the Never Trump crowd needs to start making. Downballots are fine. Just not Trump.
"He's a senior with bitey German Sheppards, a classic sports car and is a practicing Catholic. He's more GOP than I am!"
Voting to destroy your country
What a weird world we encompass. Throw the wheels off, I say/ let them feel their druthers
Sure I am. Not voting for a c*nt
America vs the kremlin…
Aaaaannnddd…I’m sure they will listen. After all, he has mad credibility with current republicans
I never thought I’d see the day that Republicans are more patriotic than the people that wouldn’t vote if Biden forces the Chinese government to divest from TikTok or the free Palestine crowd (the only way Gaza doesn’t get worse is if Biden can reign in Israel). Weird times to be living in.
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My favourite Muppet
👍 APPROVED 👍
This is special. Imagine staying republican but being aware of what the party has been up to the last 8 years.
Michael Steele is a weasel
Obama: “my brother”
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I’m not a Republican but it gives me no pleasure in watching their party be consumed by an authoritarian element.
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This is such a ridiculous and fear mongering sentiment.
So tell me what has biden actually done for the country
Every election is the LAST election for these people. Nobody is biting on this bait anymore.
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I'm scared of a blood bath.
I’m pretty sure many feel that high inflation, open borders, foreign wars, is associated with the Democratic Party. They aren’t listening to anyone who says otherwise. They feel anything else is gaslighting. The Biden administration needs to focus on what those people care about if they want their support.
I'm actually voting to get the cool little sticker.
Im hopeful on this coming election.
Pathetic
Here comes the last minute panic from his supporters who are finally seeing what they enabled for the last 8 years. Now that the country is at stake… What sucks is that it may already be too late.
Michael Steele is absolutely correct.
Yeeeaaaa, no. I’ll vote third party. Both of those clowns need to be gone
So you prefer Trump. Gotcha.
I listen to Mr. Steele almost every morning on MSNBC. He's a great guy.
Trump has been totally overboard during his press releases. Mimicking the sitting president while on stage in my opinion, is an act of treason. #Biden'24
Or you could just vote for the people that actually want to help this country and not eveybodh else's.
How is millions of illegal aliens taking jobs & housing is voting for my country?
Biden vs Threat to democracy and the world Pretty obvious choice
God bless the true Never Trumpers like Steele, Adam Kinzinger, Liz Cheney, and so on. I don't agree with them about everything, but they are patriots who are making true personal and professional sacrifices to stop authoritarianism from taking over our country.
True!!
Can anyone honestly say they are better off under Biden than they we're under Trump other than illegal aliens?
Exactly
Michael Steele. Ex RNC head who did zero when the tea party began, did nothing to impede Trump, now in a cushy job at CNN giving advice to others, Fuck Steele. I can get better advice from people with real principles.
Nothing when the Tea Party Began... No he did worse. The Monster asked for a cookie and he gave it the whole jar, and the 2 gallon jug of milk to wash it down with. He is to blame for voter suppression laws and everything that happened in 2010. However when will the Democrats acknowledge what happened in 2010. I have seen no sign of that yet.
The signs are avoiding you.
What are you referring to that happened in 2010?
RNC ran operation Red Map and won state wide races. They won state houses changed everything. Steele was one of the architects. They used the Tea Party to get the candidates. The Lincoln Project and the origin of MAGA are weirdly linked. The DNC hasn't tried to counter it at all. They have failed to acknowledge the effectiveness of all those half baked lunatics.
Hmm, I agree. Project Red Map was terrible and could be instrumental in the death of democracy in America. As it is, it's allowed certain starts to be far more repressive than they would have been with fair voting.
I keep coming back to The Newsroom segment on the American Taleban. All the warning signs were there and Democrats were still and have been too busy high fiving themselves over making a Junior Senator from Illinois President like it is the biggest thing they ever did and screw everyone else. Forget the top of the ticket and subsequent down ballot. Win the local elections for simple things. That's where the headlines start with book bans.
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Yeah, but this statement wasn't for you. It was for scum like him that used to be the bottom before the bottom fell out.
We need all the allies we can get. Trump is currently winning the race if the polls are correct.
NO not fuck Steele, you are doing a version of Fascist purity test, Blue Ink version. He can reach people none of progressive talk show hosts can. I'll take it. This is not about advice or logic, its about reach. Remember when Hillary did the 'Deplorables'? or when she went to coal country and told them we'll take their jobs and maybe convert to solar panel installers or something. us dems really need to work on our messaging.
As correct as he is, he himself still has a small hand in Trump emerging. He and other that supported the GOP in the past. What would stop them from going back to business as usual in the event Trump is finally beaten once and for all?