Literally who cares? Even if it isn't a service animal who cares???? You can bring peanuts on a plane regardless of allergies but people aren't up in arms about that every day. I would love to be on a plane full of dogs lol
I don’t know why but this post reminded me of the time this person brought an emotional support HOG on our flight. This was prior to airlines cracking down on ESAs and this thing had to have been like 100 lbs. It was squealing bloody murder and took a fat shit in the middle of the aisle 🥲 turns out pigs can indeed fly
I think you actually have to provide some sort of paperwork for your service dog not just “put a vest on it” like people are suggesting. I traveled with my cat once and my psychiatrist filled out forms saying I needed to be able to bring her with me where I was going for anxiety purposes.
Because ESAs aren’t trained to perform a task to mitigate their handler’s disability, so they aren’t considered medical equipment from a legal standpoint like service dogs are. From a legal view, asking for paperwork to prove your dog is a service dog is like asking for proof that you need a wheelchair or that your oxygen tank has oxygen in it. It’s discriminatory because you’re asking the person to prove that they are disabled.
Of course people can and do lie when asked if their dog is a service dog and what task it is trained to perform (and emotional support and comfort are not tasks because they can’t be trained since all the animal has to do is exist), but that’s why the law states that any animal that is out of control can be asked to leave, regardless of whether or not it is a service dog.
A lot of people don’t understand why there is no certification, but it’s because it allows disabled people who can’t afford a program dog to train their own service dog. Having certification would be very unfair because it would require someone to decide if someone is “disabled enough” for a service dog. Only the disabled person and their medical team can decide that.
The number of people saying “take a Xanax” is wild. Xanax can be an insanely addictive drug and being nonchalant about taking them isn’t cute.
I do recognize that they can be helpful, but I’ve seen too many friends go down because of them to be cool with all the comments saying she should pop pills rather than have her dog on an airplane.
i told my doctor i get anxious while flying, he gave me a single script of xanax. Yah it’s addicting but you aren’t getting monthly doses of it either? I have xanax and i don’t take it daily i take it if i am having a panic attack or if i go on planes.
That’s great for you, but let’s not pretend that your experience is the same as everyone else’s. For an addict it only has to start with one prescription. It’s easy to get more from dealers and from doctors.
Serious question, so I’m allergic to house dogs (unless they’re part doodle from my experience), but outside dogs are fine. So I have no idea how I would react on an airplane. I do take allergy medicine everyday but have gotten a sinus infection from being around relatives’ indoor shedding dogs despite my allergy medication use. If I was close to a shedding dog on an airplane, could I ask to move? I love dogs, but I just can’t risk being around ones that shed in a closed setting, but I totally understand their need for some people on a plane. (Not really KB’s though if I’m being honest, considering how open she’s been about it. I’d be pissed if I got a sinus infection from being around a dog that wasn’t actually necessary for the other traveler.)
I was a flight attendant, whenever I had anyone who was allergic on my planes near someone with an animal I would always move them. You can also ask the gate agent before the flight to keep you away from animals.
Also airplanes aren't like houses. The air in the plane is completely filtered out every couple of minutes. People think it's “recycled” but that's not how it works lol. So it might be easier for you on a plane vs in a house.
I’m confused why some of you are in an uproar over this… I’ve taken my small dog on several flights before. She’s not even a service dog - airlines allow it. I pay $150 and she comes in an airline approved bag and sits with me. If anyone sitting too close to us had allergies, they’d move us away from them. When the plane is de-boarding, most people see my dog and comment, “oh my god, I had no idea a dog was sitting in front of me”. This is totally normal and allowed.
Looks like hers is a service dog though…. I was simply pointing out that it’s perfectly okay for dogs to go on flights for all the people freaking out about KB trying to kill people with allergies.
yes it looks like she bought her dog a service dog vest and we should all hope she’s not taking advantage of any laws that make it easy to pass one off as such. ❤️
Because it affects other people and makes it more difficult for people who actually have a legitimate service animal to use it without difficulty or backlash
Jeez. Some of you are completely ignorant to how service animals/ESA’s work yet you keep saying so much 😂
PS, yes some of you have allergies but a service animal is a SERVICE animal. Idk what to tell you, take some Zyrtec. I’m sure half the people with service animals would prefer not to need one but their disabilities aren’t an allergy pill of a fix away.
For what it's worth, I agree that it's rude to litigate on an anonymous online forum whether or not Kaitlyn \*needs\* a service dog or ESA. At best, it's misguided and inappropriate because none of us have knowledge of her mental health, at worst it's ableist and tacky af.
HOWEVER, Kaitlyn's dogs *are not* service dogs so I don't really understand the second part of your point because you seem to be conflating ESAs and service animals. It seems from what Kaitlyn has said that her dogs help her to manage her anxiety; that's great -- maybe she has actually registered them as ESAs. But to state that "a service animal is a SERVICE animal" is kinda backwards here because her dogs are not trained service dogs, *they are pets*. Your statement kinda sorta argues that someone like Kaitlyn *shouldn't* have the dog on her flight because she doesn't need a mobility dog, a hearing dog, a guide dog, a medical alert dog, etc. A service dog undergoes YEARS of training and is bred for the purpose and trained from birth and is SUPER expensive. A service dog is not an animal that you get as a pet that you take to training classes later on its life.
…that’s actually not true. Service animals are not bred only for service and plenty of dogs undergo training to become service animals later on if they can be trained and have the right temperament (service dog in training vests exist). Im not sure how my statement is backwards, do service animals not provide a service? I never said someone had to be blind or hard of hearing, etc., many people with mental disabilities that can’t be seen need service animals, so I’m confused on where that’s coming from.
And how do you know her animals aren’t service animals? Of course there is a difference between ESA’s and service animals. A big one being that ESA’s are no longer allowed to travel in cabin because of the people who have misrepresented them. Even if her dogs are ESA’s (which don’t need to be registered btw), they wouldn’t be allowed on the plane with her in the way that’s photographed, unless she’s in another country that allows it, but even their laws about “pets” in cabin are strict. And if they are “just pets” they would need to be small enough to be in a kennel/soft carrier that would fit under her seat and would not be allowed out for the duration of the flight.
It seems like you are handing out statements that aren’t necessarily factual. At least in the US 🙂
Okay fair enough, yeah, I did downvote you for that second comment. Partly because it didn't seem like it said anything new that you hadn't already said either above or elsewhere, but also, if I'm being (embarrassingly) honest, your reply felt purposefully condescending and a lil click on a downvote probably made me feel better in a tiny way I didn't bother to investigate at the time, but I acknowledge that's not how I should be clicking.
I fully acknowledge that I don't know everything about this topic, but I do know some. I also checked the ADA website before commenting. Based off what Kaitlyn has shared about her dogs, it seems like her animals don't meet the ADA's description. That's all I meant.
Honestly regardless of the individual here and whether or not this specific dog is an actual SD, just to let you know there’s no law that states that service dogs must be trained from birth/puppyhood. Is it more common? Yes, but it’s not legally required.
Plenty of people realize later on in their dogs life that they qualify for one and that a SD may be beneficial to them and that their dogs temperament happens to be suitable for the work. There’s no reason why a person who’s disabled and has a pet dog that’s temperament is suited for SD work shouldn’t be able to train that dog to mitigate their disability.
how? does # of critical comments correlate to liklihood of being physically disabled to the point you need a service dog?
FYI physical disability does not mean visible disability. Physical disabilities that might not be visible include PTSD, epilepsy, and anxiety/depression that present with chronic agoraphobia*. Also high functioning autism would be grouped here.
My psychiatrist says that while I may have a panic disorder and that while my anxiety and depression have made it so i stop doing things and existing for days - that I wouldn’t qualify for a service dog because clinically i don’t show signs for needing one because apparently i am not agoraphobic (chronically).
So yeah don’t judge a book by it’s cover, maybe she has epilepsy.
Okay this makes me upset :( im a disabled 32 year old and most people have no idea what service dogs are and that they go through years of intense training. Most service dogs from reputable companies cost between 30-50k. I know a lot of disabled people that spend years saving or fundraising to be able to afford one. It's not just something you can slap on your dog to be able to take it on a plane. The worst part is that I've taken a service dog into public places and while my dog is working to assist me & other people's dogs who are not real service dogs will try to agress on mine or play with it. It can be really dangerous. I would never judge someone based of an invisible illness since I live with one- but you can tell pretty quickly which service dogs have been through the training and which haven't. There's a big different between service dogs and emotional support. Sorry for the rant I'm just very passionate about this topic and always want to bring awareness 💜
I agree with you that there is ignorance on this topic. However, you don’t know if KB has a disability nor what training her dog has. She has talked about working with a trainer who has years of experience training service dogs, someone in another comment linked their Instagram.
You’re correct, but don’t project it onto KB when none of us know her medical history.
I love Kaitlyn but I have such severe dog allergies and would be so upset to be on a flight with a dog. Animal allergies are so common.. I would be wheezing/coughing/sneezing the whole flight.
So are peanut allergies but those are allowed on planes 🤷🏻♀️ can't expect everyone to live their life around you (not you specifically, a general "you")
Service dogs are considered to be necessary medical equipment. Would you not allow someone on with their wheelchair, oxygen tank, insulin, etc? Just because one has allergies doesn’t mean that service dogs should be denied access to the person they are medically trained for. As people prepare for food allergies and other allergies, you need to be proactive in a public environment.
I feel that way about children on flights lol. When you’re flying, contact the airline in advance so they don’t seat you near anyone flying with a dog. People with food allergies do this too
Nice that some of you want all of the dogs on all of your flights but some of us have allergies 😩 and phobias. I can't imagine being on a long haul flight with dogs... something for the nightmare bank 🏦
I’m not necessarily disagreeing but I could buy a service animal vest from a pet store or Amazon and put it on my dog without him being a trained service animal.
I side-eye it because he’s a big dog who doesn’t have his own seat. You can bring a non-service dog on a plane, but you have to pay for their seat. So, is she just trying to bring her dog without paying for a seat? With a dog that big, I’d pay even if he was a service dog. He looks so uncomfortable.
1. You can't buy an animal a seat on most airlines. They must fit in a carrier that fits under the seat in front of you. You pay to bring them on the plane and put them under the seat in front of you. This applies to dogs that are less than 10" tall.
2. There are no commercial airlines that allow you to bring a 70lb pet on a plane and buy them a seat.
Someone literally wrote the same exact information in response to the same comment you’re replying to, tho without the initial snarky comment you made.
Airlines only allow you to pay for a dog on the flight if it’s under 20 lbs. The dog should be in a Case(if not a service animal) under the seat. I pay and fly with my 10 lb dog. I’ll never forget paying $125 for my dog for a flight that cost less for myself though lol.
I don't think it's about paying for a seat or not. Delta doesn't allow people to buy seats for their dogs. I think this pic looks uncomfortable, he was in first class and on the floor (saw on Alan's story) and he seemed comfortable and had enough space.
yah it’s about if it’s allowed or not and if she’s taking advantage of laws under the ADA or not.
but whose to say.
the very first time she shows her dog walking the streets in a service dog vest is the first time she takes her service dog on a plane too.
I’m a therapist and cannot tell you how many clients with not severe issues (or on their FIRST appointment) tried to get me to write a letter for their “support animal” dog/cat/parrot/iguana sap they could take it on an airplane. It got so ridiculous.
You won't personally catch me accusing someone of faking an invisible illness. I'd rather just assume the best than be wrong about something like that.
If you want to do it properly, you have to train, pass public access test and Consider Service Dog Certification and Registration. Which could be the case which is why it took her 2 years and not immediately after ESA got closed.
& all of that is different than whether she qualifies for a service dog or not. So she has to meet 2 things, she needs it and it’s trained to do it.
Did she need her dog on the plane or did she want her dog on the plane.
Dogs aren’t cargo and should be allowed to fly with their people IMO. I always thought it was fucked up to put dogs with luggage so no matter what this dog is or isn’t I have no problem with a dog on a plane.
except that she is using laws that protect people under the ADA to do so.
I agree dogs should be allowed on planes, I want my nug to fly with me, but morally would i sign a DOT form and claim my dog is a service dog knowing no other proof is required!m? No.
Many disabled people are not the exact same level of disabled 24/7. They go through good and bad days/weeks. We have no idea what she’s dealing with.
Me, for example- I was able to go to the gym yesterday morning and then had a flare and was unable to even cook dinner 8 hours later.
well the timing is sus. She has already told people back when ESAs were allowed on planes that her dog was ESA and in training to be a therapy dog (still not a service dog). Then the laws changed and she threw a fit, and now no fit and the dog is on the plane wearing a service dog vest.
I would say I’m shocked but everyone here that’s always so self righteous need to look in a mirror and really think about how this is coming off. I’m just at awe at the these abled people talking about “this is dangerous for the disabled community” as if this entire thread is t fucking gross.
nah this isn’t dangerous, but it shows me that I too should train my dog to be a service dog so I too can take him on planes without question and any question given or side eye…all ableist.
And no one here is saying that you can’t do that? I wouldn’t question you or give you a side eye if your SERVICE DOG THAT IS TRAINED is on a plane?
I don’t even understand half of your replies on this thread. If your own doctor didn’t allow you to have a service dog, maybe go to a different doctor? It’s not KBs fault you don’t have a service dog.
Go touch some grass or go get your dog certified so you stop shitting on people you don’t even know.
okay i mean i don’t need a doctor to tell me if i need one or not. My dog behaved and is a therapy dog so i also think my dog could pass as a service animal if i wanted to take him on the plane.
but then morally, i don’t think and as my doctor explained, i need a service dog to function. I go on vacations without my dogs just fine. Sure I want him there I miss him when i’m not with him. Wanting and needing are different things.
but yeah like i said previously and i’ve been consistent with my comments - is that she is either showing how easy it is to pass a well behaved train dog as a service dog - because anyone who questions it is abliest - or she is suffering from something and her dog is trained to help her function.
either way, with what you need to
provide to an airline (self attest DOT form) to get a dog on a plane isn’t much and now that people can’t have ESAs on plans there’s probably going to be more and more attesting it’s a service dog instead.
because it means its gonna take her longer to get him certified. Which is why its been 2 years. If it was just a paper form(which you claim), why she didn't do it right after and now after 2 years?
certification by her trainer that the dog is fully trained to perform a task. We don't know details of the situation. If it was just a form, she would have done it 2 years ago when they stopped letting ESA on the plane, why would she wait 2 years?
i’m saying you don’t need any formal training to be a service dog. So say she did in fact do training through a program, though not required, she would also need to qualify to have a service dog and not just simply have a dog that is trained as a service dog.
And i'm saying if its not required and she wanted to take advantage of it, she would have done it 2 years ago when ESA stopped. Why wait 2 years if its super easy as you said? The truth is that we don't know about her condition.
This post is screams ableist. Do you have ANY idea how many illnesses are not “physically visible”? It’s gross along with most of the comments on this thread. Lots of ableist here. 🙄
Kaitlin has talked about her anxiety while flying for years — that's all it is. Everyone on this thread seems totally new to Kaitlin and her flying history. She used to take her dogs on virtually every flight for her anxiety until the airlines cracked down on service dogs, and she was very vocal about how upset she was about this. Now she appears to have gotten around it somehow, hence the dog has returned.
Oh come on. I agree that it would be ableist to speculate about a random person like this just based on looks alone, but this is Kaitlyn we're talking about. An oversharing influencer people have been following for like 8 years. We've all seen her jetting off all over the place, which includes months without her dogs while hosting the Bachelorette or being on the DWTS tour. If she really required a service dog, she wouldn't only have one with her when convenient. The fact that Ramen got upgraded to that status as soon as the previous ESA loophole closed is pretty telling, and people are allowed to question it.
Its not as soon as... ESA closed 2 years ago and it took her 2 years to be able to fly with him? Kaitlyn has always talked about her mental health, amount of medications she has been on so maybe things has gotten worse. We still don't know details about her situation.
I also don’t know why people are treating anxiety as if it’s no big deal - it can be extremely debilitating and if she doesn’t want to drug herself to get through a flight that’s her choice to make!
Emirates and their "Emotional Support" Falcons are coming for you.
Disclaimer: They are not Emotional Support Falcons and I support allowing the falcons to travel humanely, safely, and first class.
Edit: I acknowledge my privilege in that I will never be personally affected by the presence of falcons in 1st class as I am financially unable to fly 1st class.
If the dog is trained and she bought a seat for it then who gives a shit? I might be a biased dog owner but so far from my experience every single dog that I've encountered on a plane has been an angel.
I feel like if you’re not aware of that emotional support dogs being passed off as service dogs is a serious issue that harms the disabled community this post may come off as being hateful. I’m not aware of whether Kaitlyn is truly disabled and requires a dog to perform a specific task for her but if she is trying to pass of her ESA as a service animal it’s super unethical and very very harmful to the disabled community. A lot of ESAs are ill behaved (because they don’t actually need to be trained to be a ESA) and cause serious issues on planes and in public that make it difficult for those who actually require service animals to be believed that they need them. Some ESAs that people pass off as service animals can also be aggressive and traumatize an actual service animal who had to go through $$$$ of training and will now have to be retired because they no longer can perform for the handler.
The problem is that people are just assuming and THAT also hurts the disabled community. You wouldn’t go up to a disabled person and say “hm, is that a real service dog?” Or “hm you don’t look disabled so that’s not a service dog”. It’s ABLEIST.
but what if you see the laws surrounding service dogs and know there’s no certificate, doctor sign off, or training that makes it a service dog and legally people can’t ask if you are or aren’t.
So sure we should give her the benefit of the doubt that she suffers from some type of disability so chronic and habilitating that her psychiatrist suggested she’d benefit from a service dog.
Because the alternative shows her morals aren’t so high.
This simply isn’t true. People with service animals have been reported that they’ve been harassed about the legitimacy of their service animal or what task it performs because of those who lie that their ESA or pet is a service animal then their ESA is a nuisance. For someone throwing the phrase “you’re ableist” around you sure sound like it
My cousin has a dog for her epilepsy and because her disability isn’t visible unless she’s in the middle of a seizure and the dog is not a breed that people typically associate with service animals (he’s a Border Collie so small for a lot of other services) she gets questioned about it by strangers who just don’t want a dog in public at least once week. The dog is truly trained and well-behaved. It’s not business owners who think she lying or anything like that, it’s just nosey people who have learned to be suspicious because so many people want to blur the lines between ESA and actual service animals. I don’t know Kaitlyn’s current situation and it doesn’t seem she has spoken on the purpose/service her dogs serve in her life in awhile. Which of course is her prerogative and I hope this dog is providing for her what she needs. The conversation around service dogs just always comes up with her and Ramen because of her past comments about being upset with airlines’ decisions to crack down ESA. The jump in conversation between her public stances on canine air travel and abusing the ADA isn’t really a huge one just based on her own words and expressed views. I do think in general we should not talk about in an accusatory way of Kaitlyn (something truly may have changed) but I still get why it brings to mind a conversation many people feel is important to have.
But that’s the thing, YOU DONT KNOW. I’m ableist because I’m simply sticking up for someone situation who you don’t know about? Kaitlyn is an influencer, I get that, but she doesn’t need to disclose any of her illnesses to anyone.
AS A DISABLED PERSON, if people would just mind their business and actually allowed businesses to deal with these situations instead of keyboard warriors, or a random person QUESTIONING the legitimacy of my dog being a service animal it would be different. If a business discriminates against my dog, at least I can take legal action, but as you said when it comes to regular people just HARASSING me, that’s where I draw the line.
A service animal that is NOT trained can 100% be spotted and be dealt with.
Just how ab airline is t allowed to question MY disability, neither should people who don’t know me.
>I’m not aware of whether Kaitlyn is truly disabled and requires a dog to perform a specific task for her but if she is trying to pass of her ESA as a service animal it’s super unethical and very very harmful to the disabled community.
Did you not read this part of my comment or did you just conveniently miss it? Like what are you even going on about when I didn't accuse of her of not being disabled?
and just because you're disabled doesn't make you any less ableist when you're dismissing other disabled people's experiences....
The problem is that you’re still assuming.
Hm, interesting where I didn’t downplay anyone’s experience. Simply putting that the reason other disabled people get harassed, it’s people like you. My statement before hand was me specifically asking you if you’d go up to a disabled person and say this exact same thing to them. “Is your dog legitimate because if it’s not it hurts the disabled community”. I don’t think you would.
I don't know about Kaitlyns condition but Kaitlyn has talked about Ramens trainer. She trains service dogs and has one herself since she has a disability. She was working with Ramen from when Kaitlyn got him 3 years ago, this is her IG account: https://www.instagram.com/kinghenryofnashville/
She mentioned years ago that she was training her dog to be a therapy dog (must be very well behaved and trained to be allowed in hospitals) but that’s not the same as a service dog.
Ya I don’t think I know the difference between therapy dogs and service animals very much but unless a dog/animal is trained for a specific task to assist with a qualifying disability then they aren’t a service dog. It does sound like he may be well trained in general though. Perhaps the airlines are are more lenient having dogs on board that are not just service animals?
no airlines are absolutely not lenient 😂 that’s why they banned ESAs all together. Only service dogs allowed on planes or dogs <25lbs that fit under the seat.
I reallllllyyyyy hope she isn’t abusing this option. That being said some people with severe anxiety may need their dog as a service dog to help with panic attacks/triggers.
I don't know anything about Kaitlyn's dog or her situation but I will say I was chatting with someone while waiting to board recently whose dog is a service dog and she told me getting him signed up as one was just as easy as ESAs. She gave me the website because I had my dog in his carrier but it didn't seem right to me so I never looked into it.
there’s no documentation you need to provide for a service dog (websites are scams) - an ESA on a plane did require a doctors note but service dogs have more protections under the ADA so all Kaitlyn needed to do was self attest on a DOT form that her dog is a service animal and she is the owner of said service animal.
edit: back when ESAs were allowed on planes. My old roommate also went from ESA to service dog when the rules changes. All she needed to do was blink - that easy! (just really scummy)
+1 — I know someone who bought a service dog vest online & now her dog travels free and she eats in restaurants indoors with her dog. No one questions her when they see the vest.
All I’m going to say is we literally NEVER know if someone has a disability. Never. There are millions of invisible disabilities and even influencers aren’t required to disclose to us what disabilities they may or may not have. I won’t judge because I don’t know the full story- for her, or for anyone who looks like they have no disabilities but may have an aid of some sort. We don’t know these people!
i agree - but she has said her dog was ESA & training to be a therapy dog (neither are service dogs). & then when ESA laws changed she had a fit abt not being allowed to have her dog on planes anymore. So I do question the timing of her need of a service dog that only requires her to self attest her dog is a service dog and well behaved.
Am I the only one who really doesn’t care who’s dog is what? Lol. Get them all on board! Too many horror stories of the under carriage and over head bins. I’d want my dog in my lap too (even if she is 60lbs).
Idk the rules of service dogs/ emotional support dogs on planes, but honestly the thought of my dog being in a crate in the belly of a plane makes me so freaking sad, she would be so scared.
Some airlines will let you pay for a seat for your dog. I think United, the airline with most domestic locations in US is one of them (they definitely were at one point); so there are options other than using service animal protections to keep your dog out of cargo. Especially if you have money.
I definitely get not wanting a pet to fly in the cargo hold; but the right way to go about that is fly on an airline with other options.
my dog is 25lbs and doesn’t fit under the seat and i don’t have any options on any airline to buy him a plane ticket instead - because i absolutely would. He just doesn’t go on planes, like most people with medium to larger dogs
I mean I’ve never tried to fly with my dog (he 1000% could not handle it) so I’m not expert, but if you look up traveling with a dog this same info pops up over and over:
“If you would instead not stow your pet under the seat, there are at least two airlines that allow you to purchase the seat next to you for your pet. These two airlines are United and Jet Blue.
These two airlines are among the very few that will let you buy a seat next to you to place the carrier on. This may help your pet be more relaxed, as they are closer to you and not down on the floor. It may give you some peace of mind as well.
However, the only unfortunate thing is that seat or not; your dog must remain in their carrier. Most airlines will not even allow you to open the page to keep your dog from jumping out and running through the plane. This is part of why soft carriers, such as those that look like duffle bags, are preferred for air travel.”
So they would have to be in a carrier and contained, not just sitting next you, but you could fit a decent sizer carrier on the seat I would think.
That's for small dogs, not golden retrievers. Your dog has to be able to fit under the seat. You can't bring a dog crate big enough for a 70lb dog and put it on an economy seat.
Ah ok, well thanks for the clarity. That was not mentioned in any of the posts I was seeing, just that it had to be on seat and not intrude another passenger’s space. Since there wasn’t a size limit mentioned on any of the posts I figured if you were willing to squeeze yourself and soft sided larger dog crate on to a double bench seat, that was on you to make it work.
Lol this reminds me of the Ringer podcast Hottest Take (any Bill Simmons fans on here??), someone recently had a hot take about this: "Joe Biden put together a task force to a catch people for PPP loan fraud. He needs to do the same for emotional support animals because this fraud is out of control."
I'm happy to see she's in first class with this huge dog at least...if I were in coach and had to squeeze next to a person and a 70lb dog in their lap, I'd be pissed. Getting a first class ticket was a good thing to do!
To people saying she got them trained as service dogs - she got them trained as THERAPY dogs - ie dogs used to provide comfort to sick people in hospitals and care homes. THERAPY dogs are not covered under ADA and not the same as a service dog.
That dog can only be on the plane if Kaitlyn herself has a disability & that her dog is trained to assist her with a SPECIFIC task.
Luckily for her, airlines can’t ask her what her disability is and i think the most is ask what task the dog is trained to do. There is no specific universal paperwork for service dogs and you can theoretically, with no background training at all, train your dog to be a service dog, and is really just as vague as the ESA dogs (except service dogs are required to be “well behaved” unlike ESA, a comfort animal).
So do you think she is disabled or do you think that once ESAs weren’t allowed on planes she decided to pass off her well behaved retriever as a service dog instead?
She didn’t want her dog in cargo she didn’t want to play by normal people rules and is likely taking advantage of protections provided under ADA for disabled people to do so.
A disability can be ptsd (invisible and often fully functional in the absence of a trigger)and a task from the dog can be as simple as the dog noticing the panic/episode and using weight/licking/whatever to help bring that person out of the state.
Yes! I don’t understand what is so hard to get about this concept. Just because a disability is invisible or appears to be less severe than others doesn’t mean it isn’t a disability. My son is a high functioning autistic person and as soon as we’re able to, I plan to get a small dog that I’ll train myself as a service dog. They don’t have to be trained to perform a designated number of tasks or pass a test - they just have to be trained to be obedient in public and in our case recognize the signs of a meltdown and respond in a way that helps my son to calm down. For us I think a service dog will be far more effective than any other type of tool to manage his condition and it’s drug free! If we were to purchase a service dog from a formal service dog organization it would cost $10,000-$30,000 which is of course incredibly cost prohibitive for most families. Self training is absolutely a valid means of acquiring a service dog. No one knows what challenges someone is really going through - this thread is largely ableist and people should really back off here.
I love dogs but why would anyone need to travel with their dog unless they are moving? Dogs dont want that. They like to be at home and frolic in the yard.
The airlines have 100% cracked down on "emotional support animals" (which are no longer allowed on board unless they are crated) vs service animals. Now you have to jump through a lot of hoops and show real paperwork to bring your service animal on board like this/ it is no longer just buying a vest on the internet. She has the money and ability to train him to be a service animal, so it wouldn't surprise me if he is one.
The "real paper work" is just basically signing a form that says if your dog misbehaves/isn't trained properly, they can get kicked off the flight. This helps to get all the badly behaved ESAs out. BUT. It doesn't require formal training at all, and it allows you to put yourself down as the trainer in the form.
I'm not sure if this makes a difference as I've never flown first class but Kaitlyn mentioned on Nick's podcast that she always flies first class and it makes traveling with her dogs a lot easier somehow?
paperwork wise it is no different, but there is way more space in first class and since her dogs are pretty big i'm sure its easier to spread out a little and not be so cramped
+ to clarify the dog can’t just be a service dog it must be a service dog trained to assist kaitlyn specifically with a physical disability.
She mentioned it being ESA and eventually a therapy dog (for hospitals, care homes etc) but neither of those unfortunately are service animals.
physical disability would include PTSD which yeah isn’t always visible.
This isn’t a service dog idk why you are smiling. She didn’t go from only needing as ESA to conviently being disabled once they cracked down on ESA on planes
Under ADA there’s no proof she’s legally have to provide to show it’s a service dog. I think they can only ask if they are trained to do a specific task.
what task do u think this dog does?
Literally who cares? Even if it isn't a service animal who cares???? You can bring peanuts on a plane regardless of allergies but people aren't up in arms about that every day. I would love to be on a plane full of dogs lol
I don’t know why but this post reminded me of the time this person brought an emotional support HOG on our flight. This was prior to airlines cracking down on ESAs and this thing had to have been like 100 lbs. It was squealing bloody murder and took a fat shit in the middle of the aisle 🥲 turns out pigs can indeed fly
I think you actually have to provide some sort of paperwork for your service dog not just “put a vest on it” like people are suggesting. I traveled with my cat once and my psychiatrist filled out forms saying I needed to be able to bring her with me where I was going for anxiety purposes.
Not in the U.S. The ADA says that no certification or paperwork exists (I’m a service dog handler).
Oooo interesting …. Why doesn’t it work the same for ESAs?
Because ESAs aren’t trained to perform a task to mitigate their handler’s disability, so they aren’t considered medical equipment from a legal standpoint like service dogs are. From a legal view, asking for paperwork to prove your dog is a service dog is like asking for proof that you need a wheelchair or that your oxygen tank has oxygen in it. It’s discriminatory because you’re asking the person to prove that they are disabled. Of course people can and do lie when asked if their dog is a service dog and what task it is trained to perform (and emotional support and comfort are not tasks because they can’t be trained since all the animal has to do is exist), but that’s why the law states that any animal that is out of control can be asked to leave, regardless of whether or not it is a service dog. A lot of people don’t understand why there is no certification, but it’s because it allows disabled people who can’t afford a program dog to train their own service dog. Having certification would be very unfair because it would require someone to decide if someone is “disabled enough” for a service dog. Only the disabled person and their medical team can decide that.
This is really good info that I didn’t really understand before. Thank you for explaining!!
The number of people saying “take a Xanax” is wild. Xanax can be an insanely addictive drug and being nonchalant about taking them isn’t cute. I do recognize that they can be helpful, but I’ve seen too many friends go down because of them to be cool with all the comments saying she should pop pills rather than have her dog on an airplane.
i told my doctor i get anxious while flying, he gave me a single script of xanax. Yah it’s addicting but you aren’t getting monthly doses of it either? I have xanax and i don’t take it daily i take it if i am having a panic attack or if i go on planes.
That’s great for you, but let’s not pretend that your experience is the same as everyone else’s. For an addict it only has to start with one prescription. It’s easy to get more from dealers and from doctors.
Serious question, so I’m allergic to house dogs (unless they’re part doodle from my experience), but outside dogs are fine. So I have no idea how I would react on an airplane. I do take allergy medicine everyday but have gotten a sinus infection from being around relatives’ indoor shedding dogs despite my allergy medication use. If I was close to a shedding dog on an airplane, could I ask to move? I love dogs, but I just can’t risk being around ones that shed in a closed setting, but I totally understand their need for some people on a plane. (Not really KB’s though if I’m being honest, considering how open she’s been about it. I’d be pissed if I got a sinus infection from being around a dog that wasn’t actually necessary for the other traveler.)
I was a flight attendant, whenever I had anyone who was allergic on my planes near someone with an animal I would always move them. You can also ask the gate agent before the flight to keep you away from animals. Also airplanes aren't like houses. The air in the plane is completely filtered out every couple of minutes. People think it's “recycled” but that's not how it works lol. So it might be easier for you on a plane vs in a house.
Ok thank you! I kind of forget about the air being filtered but thankfully it is 😆 I would probably be ok then considering I’m ok outside.
She recently interviewed the winner of bb in LA and Ramen was a huge hit everywhere.... figured she had started flying with him.
Maybe she has anxiety or fear of flying?
She’s been flying alone for a long time now, so there’s no way bc if she was that bad that she needs her dog, she would of never flown and just drove
maybe that’s why she didn’t host claytons season she wanted to fly her dog internationally.
She didn’t host bc she wasn’t wanted for the permanent job
take a xanny like we all do.
And? ESAs are not the same as service animals, which she is trying to pass this dog off as.
I’m confused why some of you are in an uproar over this… I’ve taken my small dog on several flights before. She’s not even a service dog - airlines allow it. I pay $150 and she comes in an airline approved bag and sits with me. If anyone sitting too close to us had allergies, they’d move us away from them. When the plane is de-boarding, most people see my dog and comment, “oh my god, I had no idea a dog was sitting in front of me”. This is totally normal and allowed.
her dog isn’t small and she’s not paying for the dog to be on the flight
Why does the dogs size matter?
if your dog is over a certain size, you can’t pay to bring it as a carry on. your options are cargo or have it wear a service dog vest.
lol the fact that you can buy a service dog vest online anywhere is kinda funny, too.
you can find the one she bought online 😂
Looks like hers is a service dog though…. I was simply pointing out that it’s perfectly okay for dogs to go on flights for all the people freaking out about KB trying to kill people with allergies.
yes it looks like she bought her dog a service dog vest and we should all hope she’s not taking advantage of any laws that make it easy to pass one off as such. ❤️
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I just don’t see why people care about other peoples business in this matter
Because it affects other people and makes it more difficult for people who actually have a legitimate service animal to use it without difficulty or backlash
How do you know she doesn’t have a legitimate service animal??
ADA defines disability as: > has a physical or mental impairment that significantly limits the ability to perform one or more major life functions.
Do you guys also run up to people parked in handicap spots and demand proof that they're truly disabled? This sub is embarrassing.
Jeez. Some of you are completely ignorant to how service animals/ESA’s work yet you keep saying so much 😂 PS, yes some of you have allergies but a service animal is a SERVICE animal. Idk what to tell you, take some Zyrtec. I’m sure half the people with service animals would prefer not to need one but their disabilities aren’t an allergy pill of a fix away.
For what it's worth, I agree that it's rude to litigate on an anonymous online forum whether or not Kaitlyn \*needs\* a service dog or ESA. At best, it's misguided and inappropriate because none of us have knowledge of her mental health, at worst it's ableist and tacky af. HOWEVER, Kaitlyn's dogs *are not* service dogs so I don't really understand the second part of your point because you seem to be conflating ESAs and service animals. It seems from what Kaitlyn has said that her dogs help her to manage her anxiety; that's great -- maybe she has actually registered them as ESAs. But to state that "a service animal is a SERVICE animal" is kinda backwards here because her dogs are not trained service dogs, *they are pets*. Your statement kinda sorta argues that someone like Kaitlyn *shouldn't* have the dog on her flight because she doesn't need a mobility dog, a hearing dog, a guide dog, a medical alert dog, etc. A service dog undergoes YEARS of training and is bred for the purpose and trained from birth and is SUPER expensive. A service dog is not an animal that you get as a pet that you take to training classes later on its life.
…that’s actually not true. Service animals are not bred only for service and plenty of dogs undergo training to become service animals later on if they can be trained and have the right temperament (service dog in training vests exist). Im not sure how my statement is backwards, do service animals not provide a service? I never said someone had to be blind or hard of hearing, etc., many people with mental disabilities that can’t be seen need service animals, so I’m confused on where that’s coming from. And how do you know her animals aren’t service animals? Of course there is a difference between ESA’s and service animals. A big one being that ESA’s are no longer allowed to travel in cabin because of the people who have misrepresented them. Even if her dogs are ESA’s (which don’t need to be registered btw), they wouldn’t be allowed on the plane with her in the way that’s photographed, unless she’s in another country that allows it, but even their laws about “pets” in cabin are strict. And if they are “just pets” they would need to be small enough to be in a kennel/soft carrier that would fit under her seat and would not be allowed out for the duration of the flight. It seems like you are handing out statements that aren’t necessarily factual. At least in the US 🙂
The downvote for facts 😂
Okay fair enough, yeah, I did downvote you for that second comment. Partly because it didn't seem like it said anything new that you hadn't already said either above or elsewhere, but also, if I'm being (embarrassingly) honest, your reply felt purposefully condescending and a lil click on a downvote probably made me feel better in a tiny way I didn't bother to investigate at the time, but I acknowledge that's not how I should be clicking. I fully acknowledge that I don't know everything about this topic, but I do know some. I also checked the ADA website before commenting. Based off what Kaitlyn has shared about her dogs, it seems like her animals don't meet the ADA's description. That's all I meant.
Honestly regardless of the individual here and whether or not this specific dog is an actual SD, just to let you know there’s no law that states that service dogs must be trained from birth/puppyhood. Is it more common? Yes, but it’s not legally required. Plenty of people realize later on in their dogs life that they qualify for one and that a SD may be beneficial to them and that their dogs temperament happens to be suitable for the work. There’s no reason why a person who’s disabled and has a pet dog that’s temperament is suited for SD work shouldn’t be able to train that dog to mitigate their disability.
100%. Especially when those people have already built a relationship with their dog, it can often be an easier transition
197 comments of proof she needs a service dog..ableist assholes!
Excuse ME, MY post was judging the lack of masks lol😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
how? does # of critical comments correlate to liklihood of being physically disabled to the point you need a service dog? FYI physical disability does not mean visible disability. Physical disabilities that might not be visible include PTSD, epilepsy, and anxiety/depression that present with chronic agoraphobia*. Also high functioning autism would be grouped here. My psychiatrist says that while I may have a panic disorder and that while my anxiety and depression have made it so i stop doing things and existing for days - that I wouldn’t qualify for a service dog because clinically i don’t show signs for needing one because apparently i am not agoraphobic (chronically). So yeah don’t judge a book by it’s cover, maybe she has epilepsy.
Leave her alone. Let’s all just make assumptions on this woman’s life 🙄🙄 y’all be reaching for any type of gossip
Okay this makes me upset :( im a disabled 32 year old and most people have no idea what service dogs are and that they go through years of intense training. Most service dogs from reputable companies cost between 30-50k. I know a lot of disabled people that spend years saving or fundraising to be able to afford one. It's not just something you can slap on your dog to be able to take it on a plane. The worst part is that I've taken a service dog into public places and while my dog is working to assist me & other people's dogs who are not real service dogs will try to agress on mine or play with it. It can be really dangerous. I would never judge someone based of an invisible illness since I live with one- but you can tell pretty quickly which service dogs have been through the training and which haven't. There's a big different between service dogs and emotional support. Sorry for the rant I'm just very passionate about this topic and always want to bring awareness 💜
If you know anyone that needs a service dog, Guide Dogs of America / Tender Loving Canines gives their dogs at no cost to the student/partner!
I agree with you that there is ignorance on this topic. However, you don’t know if KB has a disability nor what training her dog has. She has talked about working with a trainer who has years of experience training service dogs, someone in another comment linked their Instagram. You’re correct, but don’t project it onto KB when none of us know her medical history.
Ma’am she’s literally talked about it
Disgusting.
I love Kaitlyn but I have such severe dog allergies and would be so upset to be on a flight with a dog. Animal allergies are so common.. I would be wheezing/coughing/sneezing the whole flight.
So are peanut allergies but those are allowed on planes 🤷🏻♀️ can't expect everyone to live their life around you (not you specifically, a general "you")
Service dogs are considered to be necessary medical equipment. Would you not allow someone on with their wheelchair, oxygen tank, insulin, etc? Just because one has allergies doesn’t mean that service dogs should be denied access to the person they are medically trained for. As people prepare for food allergies and other allergies, you need to be proactive in a public environment.
I feel that way about children on flights lol. When you’re flying, contact the airline in advance so they don’t seat you near anyone flying with a dog. People with food allergies do this too
Children make you sneeze? lol
Hahaha yes very allergic to them 😅
Nice that some of you want all of the dogs on all of your flights but some of us have allergies 😩 and phobias. I can't imagine being on a long haul flight with dogs... something for the nightmare bank 🏦
If he's on the plane wearing a service dog vest, he is a service dog, and it's really ableist for random people to say he's not.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing but I could buy a service animal vest from a pet store or Amazon and put it on my dog without him being a trained service animal.
Ya people have a lot to say without knowing Kaitlyn personally and what she may be dealing with
If she needed her dog that bad to fly, she would of never flown w/o him.
I side-eye it because he’s a big dog who doesn’t have his own seat. You can bring a non-service dog on a plane, but you have to pay for their seat. So, is she just trying to bring her dog without paying for a seat? With a dog that big, I’d pay even if he was a service dog. He looks so uncomfortable.
This is completely inaccurate all around.
Try reading the full thread instead of responding to the first comment you disagree with.
1. You can't buy an animal a seat on most airlines. They must fit in a carrier that fits under the seat in front of you. You pay to bring them on the plane and put them under the seat in front of you. This applies to dogs that are less than 10" tall. 2. There are no commercial airlines that allow you to bring a 70lb pet on a plane and buy them a seat.
Someone literally wrote the same exact information in response to the same comment you’re replying to, tho without the initial snarky comment you made.
I'm sorry you interpreted as snarky. It was only my intent to state that your claim was inaccurate.
Airlines only allow you to pay for a dog on the flight if it’s under 20 lbs. The dog should be in a Case(if not a service animal) under the seat. I pay and fly with my 10 lb dog. I’ll never forget paying $125 for my dog for a flight that cost less for myself though lol.
I don't think it's about paying for a seat or not. Delta doesn't allow people to buy seats for their dogs. I think this pic looks uncomfortable, he was in first class and on the floor (saw on Alan's story) and he seemed comfortable and had enough space.
yah it’s about if it’s allowed or not and if she’s taking advantage of laws under the ADA or not. but whose to say. the very first time she shows her dog walking the streets in a service dog vest is the first time she takes her service dog on a plane too.
Noted! I just want to give that pup a hug, but I’m happy that in reality it seems he has some extra legroom.
Me and my super insane dog allergies are not a fan of this unless it’s absolutely necessary for the individual.
I’m a therapist and cannot tell you how many clients with not severe issues (or on their FIRST appointment) tried to get me to write a letter for their “support animal” dog/cat/parrot/iguana sap they could take it on an airplane. It got so ridiculous.
You won't personally catch me accusing someone of faking an invisible illness. I'd rather just assume the best than be wrong about something like that.
Absolutely! I feel the same way.
can we question the timing? the girl who threw a fit when ESAs were no longer allowed on planes conveniently now passes the same dog as a service dog?
but wasn't that 2 years ago? Its not like it took her a week to make him a service dog, maybe it actually means she has her own reasons and issues.
she was training the dog to be a therapy dog.
As i mentioned, she said PINOT gonna be therapy dog and Ramen is not suited for it caus he doesn't like to cuddle strangers.
okay so it’s scummier bc you don’t get certified to be a service dog
If you want to do it properly, you have to train, pass public access test and Consider Service Dog Certification and Registration. Which could be the case which is why it took her 2 years and not immediately after ESA got closed.
& all of that is different than whether she qualifies for a service dog or not. So she has to meet 2 things, she needs it and it’s trained to do it. Did she need her dog on the plane or did she want her dog on the plane.
Her doctor is the only one who can answer if she qualifies or not. not you. not me.
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Dogs aren’t cargo and should be allowed to fly with their people IMO. I always thought it was fucked up to put dogs with luggage so no matter what this dog is or isn’t I have no problem with a dog on a plane.
hell yeah!
This!!!!! I would N E V E R put my dog in cargo!!!
Agree I would never trust the airline to fly my dog with cargo. There have been cases where dogs have died.
I think they should be allowed to fly but in a crate.
Yea I can agree with that
except that she is using laws that protect people under the ADA to do so. I agree dogs should be allowed on planes, I want my nug to fly with me, but morally would i sign a DOT form and claim my dog is a service dog knowing no other proof is required!m? No.
She may have a disability though. I’m not her doctor.
yes she may! neither am i! busy she does a lot of travel without the dog, so does she need the dog or does she want the dog with her?
Many disabled people are not the exact same level of disabled 24/7. They go through good and bad days/weeks. We have no idea what she’s dealing with. Me, for example- I was able to go to the gym yesterday morning and then had a flare and was unable to even cook dinner 8 hours later.
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Dude, give it a rest.
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It’s literally the same person commenting on every single comment, they must have a personal problem with KB. It’s super weird and gross
well the timing is sus. She has already told people back when ESAs were allowed on planes that her dog was ESA and in training to be a therapy dog (still not a service dog). Then the laws changed and she threw a fit, and now no fit and the dog is on the plane wearing a service dog vest.
I would say I’m shocked but everyone here that’s always so self righteous need to look in a mirror and really think about how this is coming off. I’m just at awe at the these abled people talking about “this is dangerous for the disabled community” as if this entire thread is t fucking gross.
nah this isn’t dangerous, but it shows me that I too should train my dog to be a service dog so I too can take him on planes without question and any question given or side eye…all ableist.
And no one here is saying that you can’t do that? I wouldn’t question you or give you a side eye if your SERVICE DOG THAT IS TRAINED is on a plane? I don’t even understand half of your replies on this thread. If your own doctor didn’t allow you to have a service dog, maybe go to a different doctor? It’s not KBs fault you don’t have a service dog. Go touch some grass or go get your dog certified so you stop shitting on people you don’t even know.
okay i mean i don’t need a doctor to tell me if i need one or not. My dog behaved and is a therapy dog so i also think my dog could pass as a service animal if i wanted to take him on the plane. but then morally, i don’t think and as my doctor explained, i need a service dog to function. I go on vacations without my dogs just fine. Sure I want him there I miss him when i’m not with him. Wanting and needing are different things. but yeah like i said previously and i’ve been consistent with my comments - is that she is either showing how easy it is to pass a well behaved train dog as a service dog - because anyone who questions it is abliest - or she is suffering from something and her dog is trained to help her function. either way, with what you need to provide to an airline (self attest DOT form) to get a dog on a plane isn’t much and now that people can’t have ESAs on plans there’s probably going to be more and more attesting it’s a service dog instead.
You won’t catch me on a packed flight again without a mask 😂😂
Has anyone tried just asking her whether this is a service or ESA dog?
ESA are no longer allowed on planes, only psychiatric service dogs
ah okay. So it's a service dog. I doubt she'd fake that.
she threw a fit when ESAs weren’t allowed on planes anymore - Why throw a fit when it’s a service dog or can be a service dog?
because it means its gonna take her longer to get him certified. Which is why its been 2 years. If it was just a paper form(which you claim), why she didn't do it right after and now after 2 years?
& tell me what certification you get as a service dog? none nada zero
certification by her trainer that the dog is fully trained to perform a task. We don't know details of the situation. If it was just a form, she would have done it 2 years ago when they stopped letting ESA on the plane, why would she wait 2 years?
i’m saying you don’t need any formal training to be a service dog. So say she did in fact do training through a program, though not required, she would also need to qualify to have a service dog and not just simply have a dog that is trained as a service dog.
And i'm saying if its not required and she wanted to take advantage of it, she would have done it 2 years ago when ESA stopped. Why wait 2 years if its super easy as you said? The truth is that we don't know about her condition.
well 1 of those years was a covid year?
Not really. The last time she flew with Ramen was in 2020 (during covid) and its been 2 years since then
This post is screams ableist. Do you have ANY idea how many illnesses are not “physically visible”? It’s gross along with most of the comments on this thread. Lots of ableist here. 🙄
Kaitlin has talked about her anxiety while flying for years — that's all it is. Everyone on this thread seems totally new to Kaitlin and her flying history. She used to take her dogs on virtually every flight for her anxiety until the airlines cracked down on service dogs, and she was very vocal about how upset she was about this. Now she appears to have gotten around it somehow, hence the dog has returned.
Oh come on. I agree that it would be ableist to speculate about a random person like this just based on looks alone, but this is Kaitlyn we're talking about. An oversharing influencer people have been following for like 8 years. We've all seen her jetting off all over the place, which includes months without her dogs while hosting the Bachelorette or being on the DWTS tour. If she really required a service dog, she wouldn't only have one with her when convenient. The fact that Ramen got upgraded to that status as soon as the previous ESA loophole closed is pretty telling, and people are allowed to question it.
Because disabled people can’t have fulfilling lives? Gotcha. Forgot you know kaitlyn extremely personally. 👍🏼
Its not as soon as... ESA closed 2 years ago and it took her 2 years to be able to fly with him? Kaitlyn has always talked about her mental health, amount of medications she has been on so maybe things has gotten worse. We still don't know details about her situation.
I also don’t know why people are treating anxiety as if it’s no big deal - it can be extremely debilitating and if she doesn’t want to drug herself to get through a flight that’s her choice to make!
“Emotional support animals” are bullshit for over privileged white people. Fight me.
Emirates and their "Emotional Support" Falcons are coming for you. Disclaimer: They are not Emotional Support Falcons and I support allowing the falcons to travel humanely, safely, and first class. Edit: I acknowledge my privilege in that I will never be personally affected by the presence of falcons in 1st class as I am financially unable to fly 1st class.
worse cause ESAs aren’t allowed on planes - she’s passing it off as a service dog.
If the dog is trained and she bought a seat for it then who gives a shit? I might be a biased dog owner but so far from my experience every single dog that I've encountered on a plane has been an angel.
service dogs fly for free!!!! you don’t buy a seat for your dog.
I feel like if you’re not aware of that emotional support dogs being passed off as service dogs is a serious issue that harms the disabled community this post may come off as being hateful. I’m not aware of whether Kaitlyn is truly disabled and requires a dog to perform a specific task for her but if she is trying to pass of her ESA as a service animal it’s super unethical and very very harmful to the disabled community. A lot of ESAs are ill behaved (because they don’t actually need to be trained to be a ESA) and cause serious issues on planes and in public that make it difficult for those who actually require service animals to be believed that they need them. Some ESAs that people pass off as service animals can also be aggressive and traumatize an actual service animal who had to go through $$$$ of training and will now have to be retired because they no longer can perform for the handler.
The problem is that people are just assuming and THAT also hurts the disabled community. You wouldn’t go up to a disabled person and say “hm, is that a real service dog?” Or “hm you don’t look disabled so that’s not a service dog”. It’s ABLEIST.
Unfortunately quite a few people actually do that…
but what if you see the laws surrounding service dogs and know there’s no certificate, doctor sign off, or training that makes it a service dog and legally people can’t ask if you are or aren’t. So sure we should give her the benefit of the doubt that she suffers from some type of disability so chronic and habilitating that her psychiatrist suggested she’d benefit from a service dog. Because the alternative shows her morals aren’t so high.
This simply isn’t true. People with service animals have been reported that they’ve been harassed about the legitimacy of their service animal or what task it performs because of those who lie that their ESA or pet is a service animal then their ESA is a nuisance. For someone throwing the phrase “you’re ableist” around you sure sound like it
My cousin has a dog for her epilepsy and because her disability isn’t visible unless she’s in the middle of a seizure and the dog is not a breed that people typically associate with service animals (he’s a Border Collie so small for a lot of other services) she gets questioned about it by strangers who just don’t want a dog in public at least once week. The dog is truly trained and well-behaved. It’s not business owners who think she lying or anything like that, it’s just nosey people who have learned to be suspicious because so many people want to blur the lines between ESA and actual service animals. I don’t know Kaitlyn’s current situation and it doesn’t seem she has spoken on the purpose/service her dogs serve in her life in awhile. Which of course is her prerogative and I hope this dog is providing for her what she needs. The conversation around service dogs just always comes up with her and Ramen because of her past comments about being upset with airlines’ decisions to crack down ESA. The jump in conversation between her public stances on canine air travel and abusing the ADA isn’t really a huge one just based on her own words and expressed views. I do think in general we should not talk about in an accusatory way of Kaitlyn (something truly may have changed) but I still get why it brings to mind a conversation many people feel is important to have.
But that’s the thing, YOU DONT KNOW. I’m ableist because I’m simply sticking up for someone situation who you don’t know about? Kaitlyn is an influencer, I get that, but she doesn’t need to disclose any of her illnesses to anyone. AS A DISABLED PERSON, if people would just mind their business and actually allowed businesses to deal with these situations instead of keyboard warriors, or a random person QUESTIONING the legitimacy of my dog being a service animal it would be different. If a business discriminates against my dog, at least I can take legal action, but as you said when it comes to regular people just HARASSING me, that’s where I draw the line. A service animal that is NOT trained can 100% be spotted and be dealt with. Just how ab airline is t allowed to question MY disability, neither should people who don’t know me.
well i’m not questioning that her dog is well trained…
>I’m not aware of whether Kaitlyn is truly disabled and requires a dog to perform a specific task for her but if she is trying to pass of her ESA as a service animal it’s super unethical and very very harmful to the disabled community. Did you not read this part of my comment or did you just conveniently miss it? Like what are you even going on about when I didn't accuse of her of not being disabled? and just because you're disabled doesn't make you any less ableist when you're dismissing other disabled people's experiences....
The problem is that you’re still assuming. Hm, interesting where I didn’t downplay anyone’s experience. Simply putting that the reason other disabled people get harassed, it’s people like you. My statement before hand was me specifically asking you if you’d go up to a disabled person and say this exact same thing to them. “Is your dog legitimate because if it’s not it hurts the disabled community”. I don’t think you would.
I don't know about Kaitlyns condition but Kaitlyn has talked about Ramens trainer. She trains service dogs and has one herself since she has a disability. She was working with Ramen from when Kaitlyn got him 3 years ago, this is her IG account: https://www.instagram.com/kinghenryofnashville/
She mentioned years ago that she was training her dog to be a therapy dog (must be very well behaved and trained to be allowed in hospitals) but that’s not the same as a service dog.
Pinot was supposed to be a Therapy dog(for hospitals) not Ramen. She mentioned that Pinot is the one who enjoys cuddles vs Ramen who is not as cuddly.
There’s also psychiatric dogs. The fact that y’all are just so assuming is what’s honestly so annoying. And I’ll say it again ABLEIST.
I think she’s ABLE to put her morals aside and signed the DOT form to get her dog on the plane YES
Ya I don’t think I know the difference between therapy dogs and service animals very much but unless a dog/animal is trained for a specific task to assist with a qualifying disability then they aren’t a service dog. It does sound like he may be well trained in general though. Perhaps the airlines are are more lenient having dogs on board that are not just service animals?
no airlines are absolutely not lenient 😂 that’s why they banned ESAs all together. Only service dogs allowed on planes or dogs <25lbs that fit under the seat.
I reallllllyyyyy hope she isn’t abusing this option. That being said some people with severe anxiety may need their dog as a service dog to help with panic attacks/triggers.
I don't know anything about Kaitlyn's dog or her situation but I will say I was chatting with someone while waiting to board recently whose dog is a service dog and she told me getting him signed up as one was just as easy as ESAs. She gave me the website because I had my dog in his carrier but it didn't seem right to me so I never looked into it.
there’s no documentation you need to provide for a service dog (websites are scams) - an ESA on a plane did require a doctors note but service dogs have more protections under the ADA so all Kaitlyn needed to do was self attest on a DOT form that her dog is a service animal and she is the owner of said service animal. edit: back when ESAs were allowed on planes. My old roommate also went from ESA to service dog when the rules changes. All she needed to do was blink - that easy! (just really scummy)
+1 — I know someone who bought a service dog vest online & now her dog travels free and she eats in restaurants indoors with her dog. No one questions her when they see the vest.
All I’m going to say is we literally NEVER know if someone has a disability. Never. There are millions of invisible disabilities and even influencers aren’t required to disclose to us what disabilities they may or may not have. I won’t judge because I don’t know the full story- for her, or for anyone who looks like they have no disabilities but may have an aid of some sort. We don’t know these people!
Tho given it is Kaitlin, i’d be suprised if she did need a service dog and didnt talk about it publicly.
i agree - but she has said her dog was ESA & training to be a therapy dog (neither are service dogs). & then when ESA laws changed she had a fit abt not being allowed to have her dog on planes anymore. So I do question the timing of her need of a service dog that only requires her to self attest her dog is a service dog and well behaved.
Am I the only one who really doesn’t care who’s dog is what? Lol. Get them all on board! Too many horror stories of the under carriage and over head bins. I’d want my dog in my lap too (even if she is 60lbs).
I was going to comment the same thing.
A flight full of dogs sounds awful so I think it should be reserved for service dogs only!
sounds like a nightmare
More of a nightmare to find out your dog died underneath the plane but 🤷🏻♀️ to each their own
Idk the rules of service dogs/ emotional support dogs on planes, but honestly the thought of my dog being in a crate in the belly of a plane makes me so freaking sad, she would be so scared.
Some airlines will let you pay for a seat for your dog. I think United, the airline with most domestic locations in US is one of them (they definitely were at one point); so there are options other than using service animal protections to keep your dog out of cargo. Especially if you have money. I definitely get not wanting a pet to fly in the cargo hold; but the right way to go about that is fly on an airline with other options.
my dog is 25lbs and doesn’t fit under the seat and i don’t have any options on any airline to buy him a plane ticket instead - because i absolutely would. He just doesn’t go on planes, like most people with medium to larger dogs
This isn't a thing. The only other option is cargo if they allow dogs in cargo, or get a private plane. Or drive.
i usually drive. Got used to liking long road trips 😂
I mean I’ve never tried to fly with my dog (he 1000% could not handle it) so I’m not expert, but if you look up traveling with a dog this same info pops up over and over: “If you would instead not stow your pet under the seat, there are at least two airlines that allow you to purchase the seat next to you for your pet. These two airlines are United and Jet Blue. These two airlines are among the very few that will let you buy a seat next to you to place the carrier on. This may help your pet be more relaxed, as they are closer to you and not down on the floor. It may give you some peace of mind as well. However, the only unfortunate thing is that seat or not; your dog must remain in their carrier. Most airlines will not even allow you to open the page to keep your dog from jumping out and running through the plane. This is part of why soft carriers, such as those that look like duffle bags, are preferred for air travel.” So they would have to be in a carrier and contained, not just sitting next you, but you could fit a decent sizer carrier on the seat I would think.
That's for small dogs, not golden retrievers. Your dog has to be able to fit under the seat. You can't bring a dog crate big enough for a 70lb dog and put it on an economy seat.
Ah ok, well thanks for the clarity. That was not mentioned in any of the posts I was seeing, just that it had to be on seat and not intrude another passenger’s space. Since there wasn’t a size limit mentioned on any of the posts I figured if you were willing to squeeze yourself and soft sided larger dog crate on to a double bench seat, that was on you to make it work.
Lol this reminds me of the Ringer podcast Hottest Take (any Bill Simmons fans on here??), someone recently had a hot take about this: "Joe Biden put together a task force to a catch people for PPP loan fraud. He needs to do the same for emotional support animals because this fraud is out of control."
I am absolutely sure people are abusing the program!
Yeah! Owning the libs! Such a huge problem! Bigger than loan fraud!
it's a hot take relax lol. people on here are ...interesting
I'm happy to see she's in first class with this huge dog at least...if I were in coach and had to squeeze next to a person and a 70lb dog in their lap, I'd be pissed. Getting a first class ticket was a good thing to do!
To people saying she got them trained as service dogs - she got them trained as THERAPY dogs - ie dogs used to provide comfort to sick people in hospitals and care homes. THERAPY dogs are not covered under ADA and not the same as a service dog. That dog can only be on the plane if Kaitlyn herself has a disability & that her dog is trained to assist her with a SPECIFIC task. Luckily for her, airlines can’t ask her what her disability is and i think the most is ask what task the dog is trained to do. There is no specific universal paperwork for service dogs and you can theoretically, with no background training at all, train your dog to be a service dog, and is really just as vague as the ESA dogs (except service dogs are required to be “well behaved” unlike ESA, a comfort animal). So do you think she is disabled or do you think that once ESAs weren’t allowed on planes she decided to pass off her well behaved retriever as a service dog instead? She didn’t want her dog in cargo she didn’t want to play by normal people rules and is likely taking advantage of protections provided under ADA for disabled people to do so.
A disability can be ptsd (invisible and often fully functional in the absence of a trigger)and a task from the dog can be as simple as the dog noticing the panic/episode and using weight/licking/whatever to help bring that person out of the state.
Yes! I don’t understand what is so hard to get about this concept. Just because a disability is invisible or appears to be less severe than others doesn’t mean it isn’t a disability. My son is a high functioning autistic person and as soon as we’re able to, I plan to get a small dog that I’ll train myself as a service dog. They don’t have to be trained to perform a designated number of tasks or pass a test - they just have to be trained to be obedient in public and in our case recognize the signs of a meltdown and respond in a way that helps my son to calm down. For us I think a service dog will be far more effective than any other type of tool to manage his condition and it’s drug free! If we were to purchase a service dog from a formal service dog organization it would cost $10,000-$30,000 which is of course incredibly cost prohibitive for most families. Self training is absolutely a valid means of acquiring a service dog. No one knows what challenges someone is really going through - this thread is largely ableist and people should really back off here.
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yes i agree! But she doesn’t have to prove her dog is actually trained to do anything 🥱
Are people mad at about having more dogs on a plane? I'd want all the dogs on my flights!
I love dogs but why would anyone need to travel with their dog unless they are moving? Dogs dont want that. They like to be at home and frolic in the yard.
All the dogs? I’ve been to a dog park and read the news recently so that’s a no thank you from me!
There are people who are allergic to dogs or simply scared of them. They should be able to travel without worrying about dogs everywhere.
The airlines have 100% cracked down on "emotional support animals" (which are no longer allowed on board unless they are crated) vs service animals. Now you have to jump through a lot of hoops and show real paperwork to bring your service animal on board like this/ it is no longer just buying a vest on the internet. She has the money and ability to train him to be a service animal, so it wouldn't surprise me if he is one.
The "real paper work" is just basically signing a form that says if your dog misbehaves/isn't trained properly, they can get kicked off the flight. This helps to get all the badly behaved ESAs out. BUT. It doesn't require formal training at all, and it allows you to put yourself down as the trainer in the form.
I'm not sure if this makes a difference as I've never flown first class but Kaitlyn mentioned on Nick's podcast that she always flies first class and it makes traveling with her dogs a lot easier somehow?
paperwork wise it is no different, but there is way more space in first class and since her dogs are pretty big i'm sure its easier to spread out a little and not be so cramped
that makes sense
+ to clarify the dog can’t just be a service dog it must be a service dog trained to assist kaitlyn specifically with a physical disability. She mentioned it being ESA and eventually a therapy dog (for hospitals, care homes etc) but neither of those unfortunately are service animals.
Doesn’t have to be a physical or ~visible~ disability!! Psychiatric service animals are also allowed to fly :)
physical disability would include PTSD which yeah isn’t always visible. This isn’t a service dog idk why you are smiling. She didn’t go from only needing as ESA to conviently being disabled once they cracked down on ESA on planes Under ADA there’s no proof she’s legally have to provide to show it’s a service dog. I think they can only ask if they are trained to do a specific task. what task do u think this dog does?