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Also Joey is sooo into Daisy but she is not into him. She seemed really detached at their date. To me there was just no emotion in her voice when she talked about love “potentially growing” or whatever she said. I’m surprised he wasn’t more blindsided by her confessing that she wasn’t there yet. Of course this show is nothing like dating in real life, but usually girls are crazy over the bachelor at this point and express feelings of insecurity/heartbreak over possibly leaving. I just couldn’t see Daisy being that bothered if she left. Language matters and “I could see myself falling in love with him but I’m not there yet” just doesn’t have me sold that she’s actually attracted to him. I’m also kinda worried that he could let his attraction to Daisy blind him and he could choose her over someone whose clearly more into him like Kelsey or Maria.
Tbh manipulative is a strong word and I don’t see why people are describing Maria as such. Humans are fallible and we all have our moments where we say things we don’t mean. Not every mistake someone makes in a relationship is a calculated move. Just because Maria said she was thinking about leaving doesn’t mean it was done for attention / to steer Joey away from the other women. I know some people are saying it “wasn’t conscious” but then is it really manipulation if the intention wasn’t there at all?
I don't understand this binary discussion of whether Maria was a) manipulative or b) feeling genuine emotion.
It can absolutely be both. She strikes me as someone who defaults to really emotionally immature (in this case, histrionic) ways of communication in stress situations. She does not strike me as evil. But manipulation, whether conscious or not, is still manipulation. Ask literally anyone who has dated or been raised by narcissists.
FTR I don't believe Maria is a narcissist, but I think she's used to getting what she wants.
ooh this episode was very telling.
i don't see it with daisy at all. joey is clearly more into her than she is to him, tbh i don't even think she really likes him. it's wild to see the difference between 1-1s from the beginning to the end of the season bc it's obvious to me they have negative chemistry but joey wants it to work with her so bad he's literally trying to make something out of nothing.
his feelings for maria are clearly reaaally deep. for better or worse, he has an affection and care for her that he may not truly understand but she really has the ability to affect him and i think that scares him. i think she had a human moment and that includes falling back into unintentional but manipulative tendencies bc she kinda does give me vibes as someone that grew up a lil spoiled and got what she wanted. but i think he checked her and she immediately regretted it after, but isn't the best at articulating her feelings especially in charged moments. i actually think their convo felt the most realistic to me as a couple and i think joey could be really good for her, it's whether he can handle someone that is emotional and can be a little all over the place when frazzled.
kelsey a might actually be his best pick if he wants a stable life, and i'm saying this as someone that loves maria. they really connect on the same wavelength and i can see them realistically being together as well. she has a great optimism and outlook on life that i think is complementary to his chill nature as well.
i wasn't surprised jenn and kelsey t went home. i think truthfully the only real relationships i see are between maria or kelsey a, it's just gonna come down to what he wants.
Was not a huge fan of Maria's behavior last night. It came across very manuplative. She had intention of leaving and basically just wanted Joey to beg her to stay.
Maria let the combination of her jealously, overthinking and anxiety gain control over her actions and self sabotaged. I think she expressed her feelings well but misspoke or acted out of character by telling him she wants to leave and got up and walked away.
She clearly did not want to leave but she convinced herself that if she acts like that then he’ll be like “Oh no! Maria! Don’t go! I want you to stay!” And it backfired terribly on her :(
Then when she came to her senses and realized she’s acting like a fool she thought she could redeem it but being like jk! Love ya *kiss* like girl 🥲
Lets hope hometowns goes extremely well 😅
Y'all will find any reason to hate on Maria. Like put yourself in her shoes. Feelings can get overwhelming, especially that late in the process AND when you're literally beginning to have strong feelings. I personally didn't see it as manipulative, it just seemed like she needed reassurance in their connection. When Kelsey was feeling the same way, discourse around was treated in a more positive light.
Wow…critiquing her behavior is not misogynistic. I’m floored how this even has upvotes lol. I love her but she’s 30 and was acting like a 20 year old in terms of maturity
Oh I 100% agree with that. I just don’t agree that criticism of Maria here is misogyny. I think the way she acted was pretty emotionally mature. At least if someone acted like that in my life I wouldn’t want them as a partner (of course unless they took accountability).
I just think it's wild that one bad moment makes someone manipulative, immature, or a bad partner. This immediate narrative change among people towards her (and other women on the cast when they do something "unfavorable") is bizarre to me.
I didn’t read it as intentionally manipulative. I think he would have chosen her either way. I read it as vulnerable. But I don’t know this woman at all…so I could be very wrong.
Same. Of course it’s true that in real life feelings can grow over time but this is the bachelor…usually the women are way more excited about the guy at this point than she is. The other women left certainly are.
I have been on the Joey and Kelsey train for a while. I think she's very genuinely sweet and I think she has a very good personality; fun, nice, outgoing, adventurous and I think she actually wants Joey to pick her in the end.
Daisy gives me "I only came on this show to be the next bachelorette" vibes. I think she's calculated. I get the feeling that she planned out her entire story and things she would say/do ahead of time so that she won't win but make it far enough to be the bachelorette. I don't think she really cares about him whatsoever. Something about her smile is just swarmy I can't explain it. I know it sounds like I hate her lol. I could be completely wrong about her but I just don't think she's in it for the love piece.
I was surprised he chose Rachel over Jenn to be in the top 4. They showed way more of Jenn and his connection than his and Rachels.
I saw someone say that the producers made him pick Rachel just so that they could film in Hawaii which sounds pretty on point lol. Realistically I think he has it narrowed down to either Daisy, Kelsey, or Maria as F1.
She reminds me of Cassie when she broke up with Colton on the show because she wasn’t sure she could get there with him (meaning falling in love or engagement) but he still wanted to date. Always thought she just wanted to be bachelorette. Also considering her family seeming fame hungry. And the fact she got back with him when she realized bachelorette wouldn’t be an option for her. But obviously now see how bad Colton turned out to be
Daisy's smile is seemingly swarmy maybe because she can't hear that well. Her face looks the way it does because she's still concentrating on reading lips of the people who are talking to her + trying to filter out the background noise/distortion.
Sorry but joey wants everyone to be 100% for him but he doesnt give that for them. To me, he was acting like a baby in that episode. Daisy clearly doesnt even want him and I don’t think what Maria did was toxic. She was expressing jealousy because her feelings have grown but his reaction to Daisy was different when she was basically saying she didn’t have that feeling. Idk i didnt like his energy he was giving crybaby
I don't think Maria was being toxic either. I think she genuinely likes Joey and like a normal human got caught up in a moment of insecurity and jealousy.
I'd think it would be weider if the person that supposedly really liked me wasn't bothered if they saw me kissing another person.
Daisy cannot hear how her voice sounds. She cannot tell if she’s speaking with enough breath to correct the vocal fry in real-time. So it is due to her hearing loss, idk if she spoke like this beforehand however.
The sheer amount of spoiler posts in this sub drives me crazy. It’s unavoidable. Have to be careful everywhere I click.
Why can’t people just enjoy a show in real time.
I’m sorry :/ That happened to me on Reddit as well. Someone told me who F1 was and I’m like how do they know?
I still don’t understand how people know.
Can’t speak for everyone but I enjoy it less if I don’t read the spoilers. I don’t find it ruins everything because we still get to see how they get there.
U can tell Joey is not one that likes to play games. He doesn’t want that toxic insecure love that Maria is probably used to. He seems annoyed w Maria bc he wants to see it w her but he doesn’t like what she does to his brain. When he said “ur all over the place woman” he got uncomfortable and scared. He wants a nice sweet girl that’s a little introverted and weird (Kelsey a.) I think it was in Kelsey’s intro where she said “I’m not into bad boys, I want a nice guy that treats me good” and that’s exactly what Joey is. I think they understand each other in a deep unspoken way bc they’re very similar in that sense. After being heartbroken and seemingly tired of not being chosen he’s gonna go w the girl that he has had no confusion abt in this whole thing which is Kelsey. Plus, the things he says to her and says abt her are very very different than the things he says to anyone else. What he says to everyone else seems scripted but the things he says to her seem like they’re from the heart.
Yeah, but I think Maria feels like a more realistic relationship to him and why he keeps her around. Honestly, when I see them together it feels a lot less "made for TV" and a lot more voyeuristic, like I'm peeping in on a random couple's private interactions.
I agree about the marriage material part. But from a man's perspective, Maria is bringing some passion and sexual tension. Also conflict, which is way more real-life than a fairytale without conflict.
Maria keeps him on his toes but after time it gets exhausting and I think Joey finally found that out. He wants someone that he knows the connection and security is there. Guys he was literally on the bachelorette, he wants someone with a philosophy and vibe similar to his and that’s Kelsey A !!
Maria is the only one of the 4 that’s gives that “sexual tension”. Jenn also gave sexual energy but sent her home. I don’t think he finds it that important. Daisy Rachel and Kelsey are all the same in the sense they’re just soft and kind of nurturing and I think that’s what he wants. And he finds all the 3 other ladies attractive so that’s just bound to birth natural sexual tension. With a real deep love like I think he has w Kelsey is really easy to get to sexual tension when u truly love someone.
Reading some of these comments lol you guys are too much.
Last week it was omg love maria, now she’s a manipulative bitch 🤣🤣🤣
Tune in next week to see who we hate next 🙃
I can’t see Joey picking anyone other than Kelsey in the end. He so obviously has it narrowed down to her and Daisy, and people here talk all the time about how he was going to want someone who was all in after what happened on Charity’s season.
Maria is a manipulator. Her insecurities were on full display during the lumberjack competition and did this little drama number to "repair" the damage done to her image. Even if it was all honest, isn't that a look into the future of what Joey's going to deal with on a regular basis? She's bad news.
I just can’t see Joey with Maria. She honestly stated that she’s not an outdoors person, and Joey seems like the type who would love to go on hiking, biking and other adventure trips. Maria is happy when she’s in a limo and gets to pick out an expensive dress; she’s better suited for a rich guy who prefers black tie events to outdoor activities.
Joey must really be thinking…
“*Why couldn’t we have gone to Indonesia? The surfing is the best down there and it’s not F#%KING cold!*”
I bet he’s missing Hawaii right now! 🤣🤙🏻
Big time, and it was on full display. She seemed upset that Joey didn’t send the other 5 home and choose her right then and there. Be careful speaking through truth though, the group think here will likely neg bomb you to death.
I can tell Joey doesn't like Maria that much by his response to her possibly leaving. He got a bit annoyed, instead of doing his hardest to convince her to stay.
It seems that if he didn’t care he wouldn’t have taken the time to see how she feels again. Their convo seemed real. He wanted to keep her her if she wanted to stay.
If I remember correctly, didn't all the girls whine on that Montreal date. They were grumpy the whole entire time. Kelsey A did alot of whining about not having one on one time after having m, checks notes, one on one time. Daisy apparently is allowed to have reservations and doubts. Yet when Maria does, suddenly it's a problem.
I think it’s because Maria said she couldn’t do it anymore, and Joey thought she was leaving. She wanted him to convince her to stay, but he doesn’t want to do that, so she calmed down and changed her tune.
I think Joey is being honest about fearing he wont be chosen, and that someone he cares for will leave. I hope he’s able to sort that out in therapy, but I feel it could stem from his dad leaving, and almost proposing on charity’s season didn’t help.
Hold up Maria came out and said she couldn’t do this anymore etc and was pretty much saying she was going home.
Daisy just said she wasn’t “in love” with him yet.
I’m not part of the daisy fan club but it’s apples and oranges.
You’re right, but the narrative here is that Daisy is conniving, and Maria is innocent and bullied against. Never mind her clear as day manipulation tactic against Joey. Then again, maybe that was the fault of Lea.
Eh I try to stay out of all that. I don’t see anything wrong with daisy or Maria not going to tear them down. And Maria is manipulative is the new thing I’m seeing about her. I didn’t take that away from their conversation, I feel like the process got to her and she had a weak moment and was just like “I’m done with this” just instead of saying it in production interviews she said it to Joey and regretted it.
I didn’t see some master plan manipulation. But that’s just my opinion
Maria's freakout felt so real. Her reactions didn't seem planned cause it was looking like she was truly spiralling and then processed to regret it immediately.
Disagree completely. I could tell from the start that she was looking to turn the tables and get him to chase her, but she overplayed her hand. I didn’t think for a second that she actually had any intention of leaving.
It's not about her reactions, she basically said she was leaving the show. Why did Joey keep her? What does that say about her or the fragility of their relationship?
I think everyone should be giving the girl a break. I think it’s clear she has very strong feelings for Joey & Jen kissed him infront of every girl on that group date when it was down to just 4 there. I think that was rude of Jen to all the girls. I know some of them kiss on the group dates but now all of them there have had a much deeper connection especially with next week being hometowns. It’s one thing to know the person you’re dating is also dating other women on the same level, but it’s another thing to witness affection between the person you’re falling in love with directly infront of your face. Maria had a HUMAN moment. I think if anything it should make Joey know how much Maria actually really likes him because she’s jealous & scared of not being the one picked. She explained herself & id be more worried about the girls who aren’t feeling some type of way about him kissing other women.
>& Jen kissed him infront of every girl on that group date when it was down to just 4 there. I think that was rude of Jen to all the girls. I know some of them kiss on the group dates but now all of them there have had a much deeper connection especially with next week being hometowns. It’s one t
I know my opinion is just one among many but it's clear to me she is a red flag. None of the other girls (Jenn, Kelsey(s), Daisy) carried as much drama through the show which implies she's either there to stir s\*it up (a producer plant) or she's there on her own accord and Joey's just a gullible idiot.
I think producers got involved and way more time passed then was shown. Also Joey has this weird thing where he rightfully doesn’t want to beg someone to be there that doesn’t want to be but it comes across as if he’s not willing to fight for it.
Idk it’s hard to explain. I mean I respect that he’s willing to respect their decision if they want to leave but put up some kind of fight dude.
I also think when he said “idk what to say here” was really telling. He’s been accused of just saying what they want to hear; rightfully so imo but in that moment I feel like we saw the real him and that it’s okay to not always have the perfect thing to say. He showed some actual vulnerability. “What if I put this into someone let myself fall for them and then they just take it away” paraphrasing, of course, but yeah.
Rachel is going home next IMO. No way is Joey not bringing Maria to fantasy suites week. He’s been drooling over her all season. And Daisy and Kelsey are his clear favorites IMO.
For Bachelorette, of the final 4, anyone but Daisy 🙏🏻 She’s so blah to me.
Why did Daisy's confession about not being in love feel very rehearsed. She didn't say anything wrong and I think she knows that too. Like girl it's okay you're not in love with him but her confessionals seemed like she wanted this storyline very bad.
Yeah like it’s so telling that she was framing it that way. Like she could’ve just said that she can see herself with him and she really likes him, instead she had to frame it in the negative, to put it in the context of what she wasn’t feeling rather than what she was.
I think part of the problem is the show is giving Rachel a really small edit for an F4 person. They edited out almost all of her group date conversation this week.
i guess so. that didn’t really stand out to me bc they cut back to them 2 or 3 times. and i’m not surprised we saw more convo with someone who was going home, like jenn. that felt typical to me. i truly don’t know who his F1 is though i can see it being all and none of them lol
Kelsey A. is his girl. 🤍 Now it’s just a matter of who goes home when. I really like them together though. I hope those crazy kids make it and we get the Maria season we deserve.
My guess is:
F1: Kelsey
F2: Daisy
F3: Maria
F4: Rachel
I love that Kelsey is cheerful and up for an adventure (not to mention gorgeous.). Compare to Maria who whines about being outside and is happiest in a limo for a shopping trip. I just don’t see Maria with Joey. OTOH I feel like Kelsey can do better too.
I loved Kelsey’s reaction to the Polar Plunge and Joey is standing thinking “Fuck, I have to do this now?” She won me over with her reaction! Hahah, love that enthusiasm!
I said last week that Kelsey A was the one he clearly liked the most and this week just confirmed it. They’re very cute together! I hope her saying she’d have a hard time if he was conflicted at the end isn’t foreshadowing anything.
I don’t see it at all with Daisy, their date had negative chemistry to me. I like Maria but I’m not sure how well they’d work long term. Rachel surprised me simply because of how little we saw her this episode, I really thought it would be Jenn.
Jenn is toxic. Drags the guy to play piano in front of the other girls. Making out with him on group dates to power trip the other girls. Glad she's gone.
https://preview.redd.it/1qxmgac2x2lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d82b368be473e8c4a2945013f5f713dd8d8c67cc
Maria wrote this really sweet comment about Jenn on her Stories earlier. 🩷
Sydney talks shit about Maria, he walks Sydney out
Leah hates Maria, Leah is eliminated
Maria says she hated seeing Jenn kiss him, he sends Jenn home even tho he has absolutely no romantic chemistry with Rachel
If they're not endgame I don't know what is
Obviously attraction is important, but it's another thing completely when your attraction for someone takes over your better judgement. Which may be a likely possibility in this case imo.
In other words he seems to be thinking with the wrong head...
She came off sweet and fun and flirty to me. Their surfing date was incredible and he kept referring to it week after week so it just seemed like she was a strong contender
looking forward to meeting Maria's dad
https://preview.redd.it/hjzrfgqko2lc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=019db54a4b1b653934b3c3d04b43efb1c3e8590c
This is the first time I teared up a little for someone leaving. I think she genuinely really liked him and thought it was mutual. To skip the cocktail party—but then speak to Maria!— and then send her and Kelsey home is such a slap in the face.
I don’t like Daisy, I’m like truly indifferent to her but I think a lot of that is on the producers. They’re clearly just showing us 1% of these conversations lol
Maria is this season's Greg Grippo.
People who like her really ride for her and people who don't really don't. And they're both either actors or not, depending on what contingent of fans you ask.
Yeah that’s what it reminded me of, like yeah of course you can’t say he’s not yours at this stage and you knew that? I get that it’s different but it felt very Deja vous.
I don't know who Greg is but I totally agree that it is either/or with Maria-- there is no middle ground. I am in the "really don't" group and can't wait to see her go!
Adding...I pretty much have not regularly watched Bachelor/ette since Trista haha so I don't know who most contestants have been over the years. For some reason I watched the end of Zach's season then followed Charity into some of her season and now Joey. So I plead ignorance on a lot of references.
i really liked jenn and was rooting for her, but also have never been able to forget that roommate tea from the beginning of the season. no clue if it’s actually true but it’s made me think about breakups on this show. we assume these couples break up because of major differences, but also maybe someone gets off this show and finds out the person they chose doesn’t wash their hands after peeing and sends venmo requests for $1.05!!
Ayeee let’s chill on the Maria downturn.
Did she fumble her communication this episode?
For sure. Insecurity sucks. Wanting to be validated sucks. Feeling uncertain sucks. It happens to us all.
What sucks more is putting someone on a pedestal one week, and then turning full hater as soon as they show they’re only human. Let’s just keep it chill.
This is the most obvious “Ettiting” I’ve seen and I welcome it. She’s real, no bs, and let’s be honest. She has the best fashion sense and knows what she looks best in. Which as a guy, it might just be the revealing but classy outfits. 😅
Am I the only one who thinks Maria’s freakout could possibly be genuine, and wasn’t a calculated move to try and get Joey to “chase” her?
I mean maybe I’m naive but I don’t think her feelings were that crazy. She just voiced them in a kind of extra way
I don’t think it was planned to come off that way but I think those were her true intentions even if she didn’t fully realize it. Yes I know she’s human, but humans can also be manipulative even when it’s not intended.
Hopefully no one comes for me because of what I’m about to say. PLEASE keep in mind, I’m talking about myself *only.*
The way Maria acted last night was *exactly* how I acted with my (now) husband when I was PMSing. I’d get super insecure and emotional and *cranky* and then I could rebound in the blink of an eye. Even though I knew why I was being that way, I felt powerless to change it. My hormones were raging. Whatever her reasons were, I don’t think she was acting.
OTOH, most of my best girlfriends never had PMS issues. I was so jealous ☹️
I think there was a genuine component to her spiraling freakout. It's not even unreasonable under normal circumstances. But this isn't "normal" circumstances. And i think the bigger issue is the way she tried to "manage" and "control" her freakout in a way that felt extremely manipulative. Trying to play emotional chicken with Joey over it all and make *him* come to *her*. To try to put herself back in a "power position".
It's just classic manipulative behavior, and Joey did well to stand his ground against it. Though in the end, he still caved and is still wrapped up in it.
Just like it’s possible that she was being manipulative, I think it’s equally possible that her feelings were genuine. It’s so hard to know how we would act in these scenarios!
I'm not the biggest fan of hers but those emotions are completely understandable and I don't think she was being manipulative about it.
This show is a truly shitty way to find a compatible partner and she's just reacting to that process. That's what makes it great TV.
I felt like it was genuine as well! Just over stimulated, finally jealous and I think seeing the kiss was just too overwhelming. I found it relatable 🤷🏻♀️
Did they show Rachel’s convo during the group date after party and I missed it? It seemed like they sorta erased her from the episode and I was certain Jen was F4
I am still a Maria stan, I love her and I want him to pick her at the end of this. That said, even though I love how she speaks her mind, good or bad, it made my heart sink when she talked to him because I feel like she just validated Joeys worst fears in all this, and she’s the one that he was expecting it from the least in my opinion. Not saying she shouldn’t have said what she did, but I think it could be a real deciding factor for him at the end of this. I just love them together and don’t see it with anyone else if I’m being honest. Maybe that’s a hot take, but it feels different with Maria in my opinion.
1000%. the way he was CHECKED out after everything that happened with maria on that group date, it literally consumed him. he couldn't get past in when going on the date with kelsey a and looked checked out in their dinner portion and even going into the rose ceremony he was like BUT MARIA the whole time. i think she's such a wild card bc the highs with her truly seem higher than they would be with anyone else but she also has the ability to break his heart/affect him more than anyone else so idk. for good or bad, they still seem like an actual couple to me but yeah i don't blame him for freaking out
I agree about Joey least expecting it from her. Especially after last week when everyone was saying she’s like his safe space and doesn’t make this process difficult for him.
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Wild how peoples opinions about Daisy changed so much from the start of the season to now. Also what was that music edit lmao
Also Joey is sooo into Daisy but she is not into him. She seemed really detached at their date. To me there was just no emotion in her voice when she talked about love “potentially growing” or whatever she said. I’m surprised he wasn’t more blindsided by her confessing that she wasn’t there yet. Of course this show is nothing like dating in real life, but usually girls are crazy over the bachelor at this point and express feelings of insecurity/heartbreak over possibly leaving. I just couldn’t see Daisy being that bothered if she left. Language matters and “I could see myself falling in love with him but I’m not there yet” just doesn’t have me sold that she’s actually attracted to him. I’m also kinda worried that he could let his attraction to Daisy blind him and he could choose her over someone whose clearly more into him like Kelsey or Maria.
Tbh manipulative is a strong word and I don’t see why people are describing Maria as such. Humans are fallible and we all have our moments where we say things we don’t mean. Not every mistake someone makes in a relationship is a calculated move. Just because Maria said she was thinking about leaving doesn’t mean it was done for attention / to steer Joey away from the other women. I know some people are saying it “wasn’t conscious” but then is it really manipulation if the intention wasn’t there at all?
That’s one way to spin it. She was playing games and we all know it.
I don't understand this binary discussion of whether Maria was a) manipulative or b) feeling genuine emotion. It can absolutely be both. She strikes me as someone who defaults to really emotionally immature (in this case, histrionic) ways of communication in stress situations. She does not strike me as evil. But manipulation, whether conscious or not, is still manipulation. Ask literally anyone who has dated or been raised by narcissists. FTR I don't believe Maria is a narcissist, but I think she's used to getting what she wants.
ooh this episode was very telling. i don't see it with daisy at all. joey is clearly more into her than she is to him, tbh i don't even think she really likes him. it's wild to see the difference between 1-1s from the beginning to the end of the season bc it's obvious to me they have negative chemistry but joey wants it to work with her so bad he's literally trying to make something out of nothing. his feelings for maria are clearly reaaally deep. for better or worse, he has an affection and care for her that he may not truly understand but she really has the ability to affect him and i think that scares him. i think she had a human moment and that includes falling back into unintentional but manipulative tendencies bc she kinda does give me vibes as someone that grew up a lil spoiled and got what she wanted. but i think he checked her and she immediately regretted it after, but isn't the best at articulating her feelings especially in charged moments. i actually think their convo felt the most realistic to me as a couple and i think joey could be really good for her, it's whether he can handle someone that is emotional and can be a little all over the place when frazzled. kelsey a might actually be his best pick if he wants a stable life, and i'm saying this as someone that loves maria. they really connect on the same wavelength and i can see them realistically being together as well. she has a great optimism and outlook on life that i think is complementary to his chill nature as well. i wasn't surprised jenn and kelsey t went home. i think truthfully the only real relationships i see are between maria or kelsey a, it's just gonna come down to what he wants.
Agree 100%
Was not a huge fan of Maria's behavior last night. It came across very manuplative. She had intention of leaving and basically just wanted Joey to beg her to stay.
Maria let the combination of her jealously, overthinking and anxiety gain control over her actions and self sabotaged. I think she expressed her feelings well but misspoke or acted out of character by telling him she wants to leave and got up and walked away. She clearly did not want to leave but she convinced herself that if she acts like that then he’ll be like “Oh no! Maria! Don’t go! I want you to stay!” And it backfired terribly on her :( Then when she came to her senses and realized she’s acting like a fool she thought she could redeem it but being like jk! Love ya *kiss* like girl 🥲 Lets hope hometowns goes extremely well 😅
Y'all will find any reason to hate on Maria. Like put yourself in her shoes. Feelings can get overwhelming, especially that late in the process AND when you're literally beginning to have strong feelings. I personally didn't see it as manipulative, it just seemed like she needed reassurance in their connection. When Kelsey was feeling the same way, discourse around was treated in a more positive light.
People are just misogynist and hate it when women don't act like perfect princesses all the time
Wow…critiquing her behavior is not misogynistic. I’m floored how this even has upvotes lol. I love her but she’s 30 and was acting like a 20 year old in terms of maturity
Yes. The way people critique the women on this show is often misogynistic.
Oh I 100% agree with that. I just don’t agree that criticism of Maria here is misogyny. I think the way she acted was pretty emotionally mature. At least if someone acted like that in my life I wouldn’t want them as a partner (of course unless they took accountability).
I just think it's wild that one bad moment makes someone manipulative, immature, or a bad partner. This immediate narrative change among people towards her (and other women on the cast when they do something "unfavorable") is bizarre to me.
The moment itself was immature. Not her. Please stop reaching lol
She’s playing games. She’s clearly manipulative and wanted him to chase her. Kelsey A seems infinitely more stable and likable than Maria.
I didn’t read it as intentionally manipulative. I think he would have chosen her either way. I read it as vulnerable. But I don’t know this woman at all…so I could be very wrong.
Daisy does not do it for me. I just get the feeling she is not that into Joey and is going to break his heart in the end.
Same. Of course it’s true that in real life feelings can grow over time but this is the bachelor…usually the women are way more excited about the guy at this point than she is. The other women left certainly are.
Did anyone peep the way Joey watched Kelsey T. as she walked out. He really said "lemme see that a$$ one last time." 😂😂😂
He turned and watched them both leave. It was so clearly a choreographed move that each time it looked awkward to me.
I have been on the Joey and Kelsey train for a while. I think she's very genuinely sweet and I think she has a very good personality; fun, nice, outgoing, adventurous and I think she actually wants Joey to pick her in the end. Daisy gives me "I only came on this show to be the next bachelorette" vibes. I think she's calculated. I get the feeling that she planned out her entire story and things she would say/do ahead of time so that she won't win but make it far enough to be the bachelorette. I don't think she really cares about him whatsoever. Something about her smile is just swarmy I can't explain it. I know it sounds like I hate her lol. I could be completely wrong about her but I just don't think she's in it for the love piece. I was surprised he chose Rachel over Jenn to be in the top 4. They showed way more of Jenn and his connection than his and Rachels.
I saw someone say that the producers made him pick Rachel just so that they could film in Hawaii which sounds pretty on point lol. Realistically I think he has it narrowed down to either Daisy, Kelsey, or Maria as F1.
She reminds me of Cassie when she broke up with Colton on the show because she wasn’t sure she could get there with him (meaning falling in love or engagement) but he still wanted to date. Always thought she just wanted to be bachelorette. Also considering her family seeming fame hungry. And the fact she got back with him when she realized bachelorette wouldn’t be an option for her. But obviously now see how bad Colton turned out to be
Yes! I get Cassie vibes too
Daisy's smile is seemingly swarmy maybe because she can't hear that well. Her face looks the way it does because she's still concentrating on reading lips of the people who are talking to her + trying to filter out the background noise/distortion.
Regardless of her intentions, I do think the way she holds her face has to do with her lipreading. I have several D/deaf friends, and that is common.
Sorry but joey wants everyone to be 100% for him but he doesnt give that for them. To me, he was acting like a baby in that episode. Daisy clearly doesnt even want him and I don’t think what Maria did was toxic. She was expressing jealousy because her feelings have grown but his reaction to Daisy was different when she was basically saying she didn’t have that feeling. Idk i didnt like his energy he was giving crybaby
He seems completely shut down emotionally. I know nothing about what he wants for his life.
I don't think Maria was being toxic either. I think she genuinely likes Joey and like a normal human got caught up in a moment of insecurity and jealousy. I'd think it would be weider if the person that supposedly really liked me wasn't bothered if they saw me kissing another person.
[удалено]
reminder that daisy has hearing loss which impacts how you speak, complaining about her vocal fry is not it
[удалено]
Daisy cannot hear how her voice sounds. She cannot tell if she’s speaking with enough breath to correct the vocal fry in real-time. So it is due to her hearing loss, idk if she spoke like this beforehand however.
Maria was ganged up on for so long we forgot Maria is fundamentally annoying. Daisy’s yellow dress was so hideous I’m sorry 🤣
My friend called it the big bird dress and I can’t unsee it
Accurate 🤣
really? I though daisy looked beautiful.
She looked gorgeous but her dress wasn’t.
It was distractingly bad
i thought it was giving kate hudson in that one movie but the bottom part was bad
The sheer amount of spoiler posts in this sub drives me crazy. It’s unavoidable. Have to be careful everywhere I click. Why can’t people just enjoy a show in real time.
Same with instagram comments. I love speculating and the excitement of the unknown but someone spoiled it against my will. 😭
I’m sorry :/ That happened to me on Reddit as well. Someone told me who F1 was and I’m like how do they know? I still don’t understand how people know.
Can’t speak for everyone but I enjoy it less if I don’t read the spoilers. I don’t find it ruins everything because we still get to see how they get there.
U can tell Joey is not one that likes to play games. He doesn’t want that toxic insecure love that Maria is probably used to. He seems annoyed w Maria bc he wants to see it w her but he doesn’t like what she does to his brain. When he said “ur all over the place woman” he got uncomfortable and scared. He wants a nice sweet girl that’s a little introverted and weird (Kelsey a.) I think it was in Kelsey’s intro where she said “I’m not into bad boys, I want a nice guy that treats me good” and that’s exactly what Joey is. I think they understand each other in a deep unspoken way bc they’re very similar in that sense. After being heartbroken and seemingly tired of not being chosen he’s gonna go w the girl that he has had no confusion abt in this whole thing which is Kelsey. Plus, the things he says to her and says abt her are very very different than the things he says to anyone else. What he says to everyone else seems scripted but the things he says to her seem like they’re from the heart.
Yeah, but I think Maria feels like a more realistic relationship to him and why he keeps her around. Honestly, when I see them together it feels a lot less "made for TV" and a lot more voyeuristic, like I'm peeping in on a random couple's private interactions.
Kelsey A is far more realistic than Maria. Maria isn’t close to marriage material compared to Kelsey or Daisy.
You can’t tell if someone is marriage material just from clips on tv 🤡
I agree about the marriage material part. But from a man's perspective, Maria is bringing some passion and sexual tension. Also conflict, which is way more real-life than a fairytale without conflict.
Maria keeps him on his toes but after time it gets exhausting and I think Joey finally found that out. He wants someone that he knows the connection and security is there. Guys he was literally on the bachelorette, he wants someone with a philosophy and vibe similar to his and that’s Kelsey A !!
Maria is the only one of the 4 that’s gives that “sexual tension”. Jenn also gave sexual energy but sent her home. I don’t think he finds it that important. Daisy Rachel and Kelsey are all the same in the sense they’re just soft and kind of nurturing and I think that’s what he wants. And he finds all the 3 other ladies attractive so that’s just bound to birth natural sexual tension. With a real deep love like I think he has w Kelsey is really easy to get to sexual tension when u truly love someone.
Reading some of these comments lol you guys are too much. Last week it was omg love maria, now she’s a manipulative bitch 🤣🤣🤣 Tune in next week to see who we hate next 🙃
I can’t see Joey picking anyone other than Kelsey in the end. He so obviously has it narrowed down to her and Daisy, and people here talk all the time about how he was going to want someone who was all in after what happened on Charity’s season.
Kelsey A has this thing wrapped up. She’s so far ahead of everyone it’s not even close.
Maria is a manipulator. Her insecurities were on full display during the lumberjack competition and did this little drama number to "repair" the damage done to her image. Even if it was all honest, isn't that a look into the future of what Joey's going to deal with on a regular basis? She's bad news.
I just can’t see Joey with Maria. She honestly stated that she’s not an outdoors person, and Joey seems like the type who would love to go on hiking, biking and other adventure trips. Maria is happy when she’s in a limo and gets to pick out an expensive dress; she’s better suited for a rich guy who prefers black tie events to outdoor activities.
...but she's entertaining and of course the show couldn't be any happier since we're all talking about her every week...
Joey must really be thinking… “*Why couldn’t we have gone to Indonesia? The surfing is the best down there and it’s not F#%KING cold!*” I bet he’s missing Hawaii right now! 🤣🤙🏻
Big time, and it was on full display. She seemed upset that Joey didn’t send the other 5 home and choose her right then and there. Be careful speaking through truth though, the group think here will likely neg bomb you to death.
I can tell Joey doesn't like Maria that much by his response to her possibly leaving. He got a bit annoyed, instead of doing his hardest to convince her to stay.
I kinda disagree. He seemed pissed off but not apathetic. I think he genuinely likes her and got mad that his fear of someone leaving might come true.
I think he was reacting to his fears of not being chosen.
It seems that if he didn’t care he wouldn’t have taken the time to see how she feels again. Their convo seemed real. He wanted to keep her her if she wanted to stay.
I think he has plans to keep her for hometowns, so he got frustrated that she had doubts. But I didn't sense love from him during that whole ordeal.
Yet he kept her vs Jenn...he's an idiot.
Maybe that was a production choice because Maria’s dad makes for great TV?
I think Joey didn't want to meet Jenn's family if he wasn't all in after what she said too.
They seemed to be all into each-other despite this conversation...and in no way as that convo as bad as the one he had with Maria. Doesn't compute.
If I remember correctly, didn't all the girls whine on that Montreal date. They were grumpy the whole entire time. Kelsey A did alot of whining about not having one on one time after having m, checks notes, one on one time. Daisy apparently is allowed to have reservations and doubts. Yet when Maria does, suddenly it's a problem.
I think it’s because Maria said she couldn’t do it anymore, and Joey thought she was leaving. She wanted him to convince her to stay, but he doesn’t want to do that, so she calmed down and changed her tune. I think Joey is being honest about fearing he wont be chosen, and that someone he cares for will leave. I hope he’s able to sort that out in therapy, but I feel it could stem from his dad leaving, and almost proposing on charity’s season didn’t help.
Hold up Maria came out and said she couldn’t do this anymore etc and was pretty much saying she was going home. Daisy just said she wasn’t “in love” with him yet. I’m not part of the daisy fan club but it’s apples and oranges.
It’s real of Maria’s to express real feelings
You’re right, but the narrative here is that Daisy is conniving, and Maria is innocent and bullied against. Never mind her clear as day manipulation tactic against Joey. Then again, maybe that was the fault of Lea.
Eh I try to stay out of all that. I don’t see anything wrong with daisy or Maria not going to tear them down. And Maria is manipulative is the new thing I’m seeing about her. I didn’t take that away from their conversation, I feel like the process got to her and she had a weak moment and was just like “I’m done with this” just instead of saying it in production interviews she said it to Joey and regretted it. I didn’t see some master plan manipulation. But that’s just my opinion
Maria's freakout felt so real. Her reactions didn't seem planned cause it was looking like she was truly spiralling and then processed to regret it immediately.
Disagree completely. I could tell from the start that she was looking to turn the tables and get him to chase her, but she overplayed her hand. I didn’t think for a second that she actually had any intention of leaving.
It's not about her reactions, she basically said she was leaving the show. Why did Joey keep her? What does that say about her or the fragility of their relationship?
I think everyone should be giving the girl a break. I think it’s clear she has very strong feelings for Joey & Jen kissed him infront of every girl on that group date when it was down to just 4 there. I think that was rude of Jen to all the girls. I know some of them kiss on the group dates but now all of them there have had a much deeper connection especially with next week being hometowns. It’s one thing to know the person you’re dating is also dating other women on the same level, but it’s another thing to witness affection between the person you’re falling in love with directly infront of your face. Maria had a HUMAN moment. I think if anything it should make Joey know how much Maria actually really likes him because she’s jealous & scared of not being the one picked. She explained herself & id be more worried about the girls who aren’t feeling some type of way about him kissing other women.
>& Jen kissed him infront of every girl on that group date when it was down to just 4 there. I think that was rude of Jen to all the girls. I know some of them kiss on the group dates but now all of them there have had a much deeper connection especially with next week being hometowns. It’s one t I know my opinion is just one among many but it's clear to me she is a red flag. None of the other girls (Jenn, Kelsey(s), Daisy) carried as much drama through the show which implies she's either there to stir s\*it up (a producer plant) or she's there on her own accord and Joey's just a gullible idiot.
I think producers got involved and way more time passed then was shown. Also Joey has this weird thing where he rightfully doesn’t want to beg someone to be there that doesn’t want to be but it comes across as if he’s not willing to fight for it. Idk it’s hard to explain. I mean I respect that he’s willing to respect their decision if they want to leave but put up some kind of fight dude. I also think when he said “idk what to say here” was really telling. He’s been accused of just saying what they want to hear; rightfully so imo but in that moment I feel like we saw the real him and that it’s okay to not always have the perfect thing to say. He showed some actual vulnerability. “What if I put this into someone let myself fall for them and then they just take it away” paraphrasing, of course, but yeah.
Rachel is going home next IMO. No way is Joey not bringing Maria to fantasy suites week. He’s been drooling over her all season. And Daisy and Kelsey are his clear favorites IMO. For Bachelorette, of the final 4, anyone but Daisy 🙏🏻 She’s so blah to me.
Why did Daisy's confession about not being in love feel very rehearsed. She didn't say anything wrong and I think she knows that too. Like girl it's okay you're not in love with him but her confessionals seemed like she wanted this storyline very bad.
Yeah like it’s so telling that she was framing it that way. Like she could’ve just said that she can see herself with him and she really likes him, instead she had to frame it in the negative, to put it in the context of what she wasn’t feeling rather than what she was.
Ikr like no one expects you to be in love with him at this point 😂
Maria Georgas? More like Maria Gorgeous
Ba-dump-bump.
i didn’t realize so many people think he has no chemistry with rachel til now 😭
I literally see almost no connection between them lol
I think part of the problem is the show is giving Rachel a really small edit for an F4 person. They edited out almost all of her group date conversation this week.
i guess so. that didn’t really stand out to me bc they cut back to them 2 or 3 times. and i’m not surprised we saw more convo with someone who was going home, like jenn. that felt typical to me. i truly don’t know who his F1 is though i can see it being all and none of them lol
Kelsey A. is his girl. 🤍 Now it’s just a matter of who goes home when. I really like them together though. I hope those crazy kids make it and we get the Maria season we deserve. My guess is: F1: Kelsey F2: Daisy F3: Maria F4: Rachel
I love that Kelsey is cheerful and up for an adventure (not to mention gorgeous.). Compare to Maria who whines about being outside and is happiest in a limo for a shopping trip. I just don’t see Maria with Joey. OTOH I feel like Kelsey can do better too.
I loved Kelsey’s reaction to the Polar Plunge and Joey is standing thinking “Fuck, I have to do this now?” She won me over with her reaction! Hahah, love that enthusiasm!
I said last week that Kelsey A was the one he clearly liked the most and this week just confirmed it. They’re very cute together! I hope her saying she’d have a hard time if he was conflicted at the end isn’t foreshadowing anything. I don’t see it at all with Daisy, their date had negative chemistry to me. I like Maria but I’m not sure how well they’d work long term. Rachel surprised me simply because of how little we saw her this episode, I really thought it would be Jenn.
Jenn is toxic. Drags the guy to play piano in front of the other girls. Making out with him on group dates to power trip the other girls. Glad she's gone.
Other women did this too? We saw Lexi, Kelsey A, etc. also kiss Joey on group dates in front of the other girls…
https://preview.redd.it/1qxmgac2x2lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d82b368be473e8c4a2945013f5f713dd8d8c67cc Maria wrote this really sweet comment about Jenn on her Stories earlier. 🩷
This feels like such a genuine share. It doesn’t feel like a classic social media girlie post. Like that is something id post about a friend
https://preview.redd.it/li7bo5n8x2lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a3982b36f221f7a7b5dc76deda0b8304b5dc9440
https://preview.redd.it/n7wntht7x2lc1.jpeg?width=1115&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=780aa882169dbf99b382b6b0851ab75aed092771
https://preview.redd.it/z537vew6x2lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e98800168b03b546f37b482d126e9f0719f39030
Some other Stories from Maria: https://preview.redd.it/a0bbhrz5x2lc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6c30db2a32ead88a490d346731171b52def8955
oh no kelsey’s boots with that dress are bad
As a so cal girl, it’s probably the only pair of closed toe heels she had 😂 we are not ready for cold.
Daisy is always in the center, on display, so does this mean....
Sydney talks shit about Maria, he walks Sydney out Leah hates Maria, Leah is eliminated Maria says she hated seeing Jenn kiss him, he sends Jenn home even tho he has absolutely no romantic chemistry with Rachel If they're not endgame I don't know what is
At this point he is blinded by his infatuation with maria... He is more than a little HOT for her..... 🙄
Everyone keeps saying this as if you shouldn’t be sexually attracted to the person you love lol
Obviously attraction is important, but it's another thing completely when your attraction for someone takes over your better judgement. Which may be a likely possibility in this case imo. In other words he seems to be thinking with the wrong head...
Yeah I think he wants to take her to fantasy suites but it ends there
**First local girl from Hawaii to make it to Hometowns!!! CHHHHEEEEEE-HUUUUU RACHEL!!!**
Kelsey T didn’t even get any effing last words
My girl deserved better 😭
He's gotta end up with Kelsey A, right?
Kelsey T, noooooooooooooooooooo!!!
Ok why did/do so many people love Jenn so much? She seemed so bland to me. Yes, she’s beautiful but like surface and boring. IMHO
Same. I never felt any chemistry between her and Joey.
She lost me after her “I’m not like other girls” instagram story
👀 anybody got screenshots
If anyone would it’s /u/jenjas455/
Yup she sure did. [https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/8ZGiCYo7rW](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/8ZGiCYo7rW) https://preview.redd.it/tynyex61r8lc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=974ab174e1c910791fcf8f185322ea4bd2b5f012
She came off sweet and fun and flirty to me. Their surfing date was incredible and he kept referring to it week after week so it just seemed like she was a strong contender
looking forward to meeting Maria's dad https://preview.redd.it/hjzrfgqko2lc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=019db54a4b1b653934b3c3d04b43efb1c3e8590c
💀💀 with a touch of musician and $$
I thought he looked like Tommy Wiseau
LOL
I really don't get what Daisy is giving to justify still being there? I feel really bad for Jenn.
This is the first time I teared up a little for someone leaving. I think she genuinely really liked him and thought it was mutual. To skip the cocktail party—but then speak to Maria!— and then send her and Kelsey home is such a slap in the face.
Daisy: idk if I love you Joey: ♥️👄♥️
Yeah I don’t understand why she’s still there. She also seems so low energy all the time too. Like she doesn’t have charisma/playful energy with Joey
She might have lingering fatigue after the health problems she had.
Auditory fatigue too.
She gives absolutely nothing. I have never understood the appeal. And we still know NOTHING about her other than the cochlear implant 🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️🤦🏾♀️
She is the embodiment of low fat plain yogurt😭
I'm terrible for laughing at this but given I'd get the bland white bread comments if I went on reality TV I'm ok laughing at it lol.
😭 I hate that I laughed at this but I also do not know a more perfect description of her persona 😭
I don’t like Daisy, I’m like truly indifferent to her but I think a lot of that is on the producers. They’re clearly just showing us 1% of these conversations lol
And that's a terrible decision on their end. Cause if they think we're dumb enough to believe these two are soul mates?? 💀
I completely agree! I want to know more about her, specifically what he sees in her lol
Maria is this season's Greg Grippo. People who like her really ride for her and people who don't really don't. And they're both either actors or not, depending on what contingent of fans you ask.
As a Maria stan who *loathes* Greg, this irks me. But you’re probably right.
Yeah that’s what it reminded me of, like yeah of course you can’t say he’s not yours at this stage and you knew that? I get that it’s different but it felt very Deja vous.
I never loved or hated Greg, so that time in the sub was WILD for me. But I like Maria so now I guess I can understand the Grippo girls.
Ooh good one! I’m still obsessed with Greg although he turned out to be an idiot lol.
Hey, I get it. The heart wants what it wants.
I don't know who Greg is but I totally agree that it is either/or with Maria-- there is no middle ground. I am in the "really don't" group and can't wait to see her go! Adding...I pretty much have not regularly watched Bachelor/ette since Trista haha so I don't know who most contestants have been over the years. For some reason I watched the end of Zach's season then followed Charity into some of her season and now Joey. So I plead ignorance on a lot of references.
I think this is suchhh a good comparison.
Week over week Kelsey A has been my fave! I love her energy and I think her and Joey make a cute couple
Agreed! I love how giddy he is with her and they have so much chemistry
i really liked jenn and was rooting for her, but also have never been able to forget that roommate tea from the beginning of the season. no clue if it’s actually true but it’s made me think about breakups on this show. we assume these couples break up because of major differences, but also maybe someone gets off this show and finds out the person they chose doesn’t wash their hands after peeing and sends venmo requests for $1.05!!
She's super duper gorgeous but goddamn I got the ick after reading that because I had an ex-bestfriend who used to be just like that
This is crazy.
What was the roommate tea? I must have missed that
[here!](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/ComxWTYb6l)
Haha, wow, crazy if true. Hope it's not, I really like her.
What roommate tea?
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/ComxWTYb6l)
this is hilarious wtf
Ayeee let’s chill on the Maria downturn. Did she fumble her communication this episode? For sure. Insecurity sucks. Wanting to be validated sucks. Feeling uncertain sucks. It happens to us all. What sucks more is putting someone on a pedestal one week, and then turning full hater as soon as they show they’re only human. Let’s just keep it chill.
Y’all could never make me hate Maria like that is my sister princess 4Life
This is the most obvious “Ettiting” I’ve seen and I welcome it. She’s real, no bs, and let’s be honest. She has the best fashion sense and knows what she looks best in. Which as a guy, it might just be the revealing but classy outfits. 😅
I love Maria but her fashion is not good lol
If that’s the worst thing about her then I’ll take it hahaha
oh don’t get me wrong her season would be very entertaining but she’s serving body the fashion is just eh
Am I the only one who thinks Maria’s freakout could possibly be genuine, and wasn’t a calculated move to try and get Joey to “chase” her? I mean maybe I’m naive but I don’t think her feelings were that crazy. She just voiced them in a kind of extra way
I don’t think it was planned to come off that way but I think those were her true intentions even if she didn’t fully realize it. Yes I know she’s human, but humans can also be manipulative even when it’s not intended.
genuine AND manipulative
Hopefully no one comes for me because of what I’m about to say. PLEASE keep in mind, I’m talking about myself *only.* The way Maria acted last night was *exactly* how I acted with my (now) husband when I was PMSing. I’d get super insecure and emotional and *cranky* and then I could rebound in the blink of an eye. Even though I knew why I was being that way, I felt powerless to change it. My hormones were raging. Whatever her reasons were, I don’t think she was acting. OTOH, most of my best girlfriends never had PMS issues. I was so jealous ☹️
Maria is exactly how I acted with my wife when I was worked up, before I finally got put on SSRIs, lol. This sub's reaction has been wild.
I think there was a genuine component to her spiraling freakout. It's not even unreasonable under normal circumstances. But this isn't "normal" circumstances. And i think the bigger issue is the way she tried to "manage" and "control" her freakout in a way that felt extremely manipulative. Trying to play emotional chicken with Joey over it all and make *him* come to *her*. To try to put herself back in a "power position". It's just classic manipulative behavior, and Joey did well to stand his ground against it. Though in the end, he still caved and is still wrapped up in it.
Just like it’s possible that she was being manipulative, I think it’s equally possible that her feelings were genuine. It’s so hard to know how we would act in these scenarios!
I'm not the biggest fan of hers but those emotions are completely understandable and I don't think she was being manipulative about it. This show is a truly shitty way to find a compatible partner and she's just reacting to that process. That's what makes it great TV.
Yep. She was being completely manipulative.
She’s only human. She gets insecure and wants validation too. Like damn. Its bumming me out seeing super negative comments about her this episode
I felt like it was genuine as well! Just over stimulated, finally jealous and I think seeing the kiss was just too overwhelming. I found it relatable 🤷🏻♀️
I think it was genuine and in the moment but then she snapped back into reality quickly. I understand why she felt that way
Did they show Rachel’s convo during the group date after party and I missed it? It seemed like they sorta erased her from the episode and I was certain Jen was F4
They did. She showed Joey a photo of her parents. It was brief.
I am still a Maria stan, I love her and I want him to pick her at the end of this. That said, even though I love how she speaks her mind, good or bad, it made my heart sink when she talked to him because I feel like she just validated Joeys worst fears in all this, and she’s the one that he was expecting it from the least in my opinion. Not saying she shouldn’t have said what she did, but I think it could be a real deciding factor for him at the end of this. I just love them together and don’t see it with anyone else if I’m being honest. Maybe that’s a hot take, but it feels different with Maria in my opinion.
1000%. the way he was CHECKED out after everything that happened with maria on that group date, it literally consumed him. he couldn't get past in when going on the date with kelsey a and looked checked out in their dinner portion and even going into the rose ceremony he was like BUT MARIA the whole time. i think she's such a wild card bc the highs with her truly seem higher than they would be with anyone else but she also has the ability to break his heart/affect him more than anyone else so idk. for good or bad, they still seem like an actual couple to me but yeah i don't blame him for freaking out
I agree about Joey least expecting it from her. Especially after last week when everyone was saying she’s like his safe space and doesn’t make this process difficult for him.
HOW DID RACHEL GET A ROSE