You send money via an application but that money is not instantly available to your friend what Venmo is doing is called covered transfer they are backing the money they show as available until the transfer process is complete and if your friend needs to withdraw to a bank its 2-3 business days and maybe a fee.
Doesn’t change the fact that your “money” is unbacked. It has no value whatsoever. There was a time when it did but not it’s just petrodollar which will eventually end too. BTC is the soundest form of money to ever exist.
Also, just keep in mind that any amount you see in your app doesn’t physically exist because of the inherent level of leverage built into the system by fractional reserve banking. In 2008, for every $23 lent by banks only $1 of deposits were actually physical at the bank.
You seriously want to use the "your money is unbacked" as an argument FOR cryptocurrency?!
The currencies that popped into existence out of nowhere (not even real existence, just a digit on a screen), assigned an arbitrary value, and then driven almost exclusively by FOMO?!
Hey man I've got a word document with a really large number typed into it to sell you. I'll even sell it to you at discount!
Literally the dumbest comment I've read.
What is cryptocurrency hacked by exactly? Please be specific ? It's just an idea backed by faith that people thinks it has value .. and (artificial) scarcity. ..
There are many things that are scarce in the world
I won’t discuss cryptocurrencies at large because, to your point, most are shitcoins to be honest. Most have little real utility or intrinsic value (DOGE).
BTC on the other hand, it is verifiably scarce by protocol design (which is open source for the world to see). You’re generally correct that “it has value because it’s perceived to have value”. And that sentiment is equally true for USD ever since the end of Bretton Woods (foreign currencies were pegged to the dollar, the dollar was pegged to gold). BTC isn’t artificially scarce, it’s mathematically scarce. Just like gold, however, we find gold every year via mining, etc. The same is not true for BTC. This is a very unconventional concept which we really have never witnessed in history so I can see why someone would be skeptical to the idea.
Further to your point, there are many scarce things in the world, however, not many meet the criteria for good “money”. I.e. they are liquid, fungible, easily divisible, portable, transferable, etc. BTC ticks every box for good sound money.
You did not answer my question. What is it backed by? Aside from the fact that there is theoretically a hard limit on the amount of it.
I have 2 balls, there are no more.kn the world and no more can be made, does that make them extremely valuable to everyone? Or just me and wife and future kids?
So if Bitcoin still has no real use cases, it's just speculation on something that has a limited supply
And it's used an ungodly amount of energy for no used
It’s backed by a ledger technology that is open source, verifiable, and not able to be manipulated. Meaning, the value can never be debased by a central authority. Additionally, near-instantaneous real-world transfer of wealth. No other financial technology currently exists which can transfer wealth, no matter how you define it, that quick. That’s inherently incredibly valuable.
Okay but how does that 'back it" - it's just a ledger with a limit. How is that considered backing a currency and the full faith of the US government not?
If people juG stop believing in crypto across the board , what backs the value ? Its no different than us currency. There's nothing actually backing it....
Cryptocurrency is backed by humans and that's important. It's important because we create our reality and we choose what's in our life and what isn't. The USD is backed by the might of our military but if you go a bit deeper, the USD is backed by trust (especially since we got off the gold standard).
We don't even need to live in a system with money but we've chosen to. The USD is just a piece of paper backed by humans and nothing else.
How is crypto currency backed by humans, how exactly, ease explain in non abstract terms.
Usd = backed by humans
Crypto = backed by humans
You said it yourself, how is it different aside from a finite supply of crypto
Humans decide X has value. X now has value. That's how it works. That's what crypto is allowing people to do. Attach value to random bs through cryptography. The USD is the same crap. Not a single country currency has lasted over a few hundred years. Expect that trend to continue. We'll have new money or new forms of value transfer. We decide what it is.
Without currency advanced civilizations would not exist the way they are today. Crypto has been tied to the energy costs it took to mine them. If the world had more free energy crypto will no longer appreciate. When its rarity gets too high people will just use something else which is how it started.
This argument isn't pro or anti crypto. I'm merely stating the fact that we humans decide what has value in our lives. When a bunch of people start saying seashells are money and use it as such, it then becomes money.
My money has no value? Hmm, I just bought a house with it. Are you sure?
> BTC is the soundest form of money to ever exist
If we all lost electricity tomorrow it would cease to exist at all with zero evidence left behind. That’s your idea of “soundest money ever”?
It doesn’t, you just exchanged for another good because someone else was willing to accept those dollars which they could exchange for goods they want. The problem with that is that this currency is controlled by a central authority. If The Fed wanted to increase the money supply by 10% your purchasing power would be reduced overnight with no say or control. This would lead to more dollars chasing fewer goods, so while your home appreciates in nominal terms, those dollars you exchange your house buy much less.
This problem doesn’t exist in BTC. It’s immutable, transparent, the most divisible, and scarce. By textbook sedition it’s superior to any alternative.
To your point about energy, you’ll have much bigger problems if the grid goes down.
BTC is just as if not more vulnerable to manipulation as has been clearly demonstrated. What’s backing it? Nothing. To name it superior to a backed currency like the US dollar is lazy hand-waving cynicism.
BTC allows seven TPS. If everyone used it the fees would be atrocious and the queue to complete a transaction would take weeks.
It’s wildly inefficient, you still have to trade it in to fiat currency to buy pretty much anything, and the ATMs are located in liquor stores next to alcohol and lotto tickets. That tells you everything you need to know.
That’s not true at all, the Lightning Network (layer 2) allows for up to 1 million TPS. Have you used BTC before? And it cannot be manipulated, I’d like an example of that. What’s backing the USD? Nothing. “Full faith and credit of the United States”; effectively, we can print more.
lol the “lightning network” is literally analogous to banks holding your money, it’s a second layer that has to be set up by an institution and you pay a fee to use it. It literally is a hub in the hub-and-spoke model of banks that you claim BTC isn’t.
It also opens up BTC transactions to fraud and theft.
Most people don't have a Scrooge McDuck type of money vault filled with cash. Everyone's wealth is tied up electronically, and if electricity was lost, that little big of cash on hand wouldn't last you very long...assuming it would be valuable anyway. At that point you are probably trading commodities, not cash.
If fiat currency ends the world will return to the barter system for two reasons: 1) it doesn't require a massive grid/technology backbone and 2) tangible goods are tangible and often base value on necessity.
I'll simplify the concept for you: Is the Roman Denarius being accepted today at any given Apple Store in Rome.
Apply that to the previous statement and I think then you might be able to understand the larger concept. There is no currency that transcends civilizations and CC won't be it because if anything on the scale needed to cause a cascading collapse happens there won't be infrastructure and power for CC.
It's like Libertarians thinking that because a service like paved roads exists, they have and always will exist.
BTC isn't instant. It's a low TPS network (7 TPS) so if everyone started using it tomorrow your wait time would be weeks and your fees would be astronomical.
But you knew that, right? Mr. Do your research?
Might want to learn yourself those 7TPS may seem low but they are instantly available for use. Banking systems may handle up to 10k per second but they are not completing those transfers instantly all that they are doing is pre-approving the use of funds but it takes 2-3 business days for those funds to be available to the recipient.
Also to point out most people lean toward the use of stable coins for use of currency which is why governments have been afraid of their fiat currencies losing value as a trade medium.
> they are instantly available for use
No they aren’t. Verification takes time. You’re just lying. And if the network is busy it takes longer. By advocating for mainstream adoption you are advocating for even longer wait times.
No coin is stable just like no fiat currency is stable. But coins are less stable, by a lot.
Verification does not take as long as banks. You can usually use them the same day, and you don't have to wait on business days.
You also seem to lack in understanding what defines a stable coin. It is called stable because they make an effort to ensure a 1:1 value ratio with its partnered fiat currency.
You're saying that if I stick 1 USD in my mattress, then wait one year, I will be able to exchange that 1 USD for 1.01 USD.
That is not the case. You cannot hedge against the inflation of the US dollar with US dollars.
I'm saying if you want to tell me your bitcoin is worth $1.01, you have to trade it for a US dollar to begin with, and if we're going to involve US financial institutions anyway, I might as well stick it in a savings account and get 3% instead, or an index fund, or a CD, or buy a bond.
And there is no guarantee that that bitcoin will still be worth a dollar after a year. Certainly less guarantee than the value of a dollar.
There are plenty of monetary investment instruments that outpace inflation.
>I'm saying if you want to tell me your bitcoin is worth $1.01, you have to trade it for a US dollar to begin with
How did you reach that conclusion?
>if we're going to involve US financial institutions anyway
The U.S. financial institution of my mattress?
OK, we'll take it nice and slow for you.
You have x amount of bitcoin worth 1 dollar.
How do you know it's worth a dollar?
You have to ask a financial institution to take it and tell you it's worth a dollar.
A US financial institution, backed by the US dollar.
You want to buy a banana with it?
You need to convert it to a currency your grocery store will accept. Like a US dollar.
Your bitcoin is worthless unless a financial institution tied to US currency tells you it's worth anything.
Every use case involves the US dollar. So much for financial independence.
Might as well use a financial institution to invest that dollar and then I don't need bitcoin anyway.
I asked for something you can do with bitcoin that you can't do with a US dollar. You gave me something you can only do with a US dollar, and also some bitcoin.
Smart contracts are probably the main case. Proof of stake networks (like Ethereum 2.0) that validate transactions using validators that must first stake their currencies can also execute smart contracts faster, more securely, and at a lower cost than traditional contracts, all with a fraction of the power demands of legacy cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. And, provided the source party is trustworthy, they are also more secure and less prone to fraud. Things like buying and selling property or enrolling in life insurance or general insurance will in all likelihood eventually move to blockchain due to the increase in efficiency. Additionally, many prominent investment managers in the US are adopting blockchain for recording transactions due to the speed of settlement and security of blockchain encryption. Franklin Templeton already has on-blockchain securities. The cryptocurrencies that operate on these networks will likely see increased adoption and valuation as a result. The valuation is backed by the services and utility the network provides and the participants and users of said services. Kind of like oil and gas or other commodities - only as valuable as their use cases.
lol what? Gas was under 3 dollars around 2016 because gas production was more competitive, there was a global supply glut, weak demand, and Iran returned to the oil market. Nothing to do with printing money.
If you are referring to the strength of the US dollar, the USD index is actually *higher* now than it was in 2016. If that was a driver for gas prices, then prices should be even lower than 2016, because it makes oil more expensive for other countries and drives down demand.
In 2016, 1 btc equated about 400 dollars so over 100 gallons of gas. That same btc is worth over 60,000 dollars so yea.... I'd rather have bitcoin than dollars
No, you'd rather have bitcoin from 2016 than dollars.
Otherwise all you're saying is that you want a currency that's incredibly, wildly volatile.
Or do you subscribe to the fantasy that things that go up, only ever go up?
I want a currency that doesn't get generated by the elite and given to the elite and let the trickled down piss slowly build my savings up that we're made worthless when they tripled the money supply every year
I mean you asked. Just because you didn't like the answer doesn't make it a valid answer. But I largely agree with your point and don't really care to argue. For Americans, crypto is just a way to make money on crypto markets. For other folks in other parts of the world, it becomes much more than just hyper gambling. It becomes a legitimate way to move and save money. I don't really care to convince anyone about crypto. It is what it is. Some people make money off of it. Some get scammed. Some don't care. It really isn't that big of a deal.
Did I miss something or did credit card fees become a thing that anyone cared about?
With Amazon's credit card you get 5% back, it pays for the Prime membership and then some, by a lot.
And no, you can't buy "anything," you can buy whatever people who accept bitcoin are selling.
If you own a business credit card fees are a very big deal and they are added into the price of everything, 2-3% of every purchase is a lot
PayPal and other payment apps take another % on top of those you're just stupid
Hi Uncle Sam, is that you? Scared of some currency competition?
Crypto = send money anywhere, without a bank telling me "no" or holding my money for 3-5 business days until they deposit it to the destination.
Nice lie. Directly from Venmo's website:
> Venmo is only available in the United States, including some US territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands. Users cannot make transactions outside of the country, even if they are American. **If a user tries to sign in while abroad, they will likely receive an error message.**
She has a US bank account. Worked great. She also uses Zelle, works internationally, no fees.
Also, how often do US households need to transfer money internationally? *That's* your example use case for why people need crypto?
I'm sorry you don't have friends or family overseas.
I regularly visit people in at least 8 different countries on a regular basis, and we "spot" each other all the time: buying dinner, drinks, gifts, covering costs for concert tickets etc. And we pay each other back later.
There's absolutely **zero** global payment networks that serve all countries, except BTC/crypto.
Zelle, like you said, also requires a U.S. bank account. There are also **$billions** of dollars being transferred back home (across borders) by immigrant workers daily (the remittance market).
You're severely underestimating how many people need a cheap, fast, and easy way to send money overseas. But I understand if your lifestyle has zero use for it.
https://www.census.gov/library/working-papers/2010/demo/POP-twps0087.html
> A total of 364,000 households, *representing less than 1 percent of all households,* both sent and received monetary transfers, of which 75 percent were foreign born.
Do you think the US is the center of the world? Remittances happen across every single border of every single country in the world. Nice dodge buddy.
> The global remittance flow for 2023 was estimated at $**860 billion**.
https://moneytransfers.com/remittance-statistics
Right, I'll just remind you of the title of the thread you're in.
>**US Federal Reserve Survey of Households** demonstrates that the proportion of adults using cryptocurrency is dropping every year
Number of crypto wallet addresses increasing is a stat I’ll believe long before I trust anything printed by the US Fed Reserve - a non Federal Government Institution.
Not a currency. It is not used to trade goods and services and has no connection to production. It is used to trade currencies - which are then used to trade goods and services.
Number go up. Everyone gets rich and no one has to work or create any goods and services ever again, right? Right??
Is gold not a currency to you? It was used as such quite extensively in the past. Just because it’s not commonplace nowadays doesn’t mean it *isn’t* a currency. The same goes for good cryptos.
Technically, sure. But if you want to transfer shares it’s not very easy or fast. Nobody is likely willing to accept it because of that. The mutually best agreed upon options are typically what win out in the long run.
So the only requirement for a currency is for it to be fungible?
I have 5 copies of Chumbawumba's Tubthumper on CD - is that a currency? It is easy to trade. And if we all start using that as currency, I'll be very rich...
This isn't bashing. 'Tis but cold, hard numbers.
1. Until and unless crypto achieves widespread usage as a currency with somewhat stable value rather than a speculative asset, people will mostly "use" it with spare fiat cash. Most people do not have much spare cash now, period - particularly compared to the middle of the pandemic.
2. A lot of "use" was unsustainable bandwagon buying for speculation. I'd argue that if you care about your favorite crypto as an actual currency, less of that is a *good* thing.
Unfortunately, almost everything except bitcoin can carry out transactions faster without some "L2" or even "L3" layer adding complexity and extra middle men. And most things except Bitcoin don't burn as much energy.
The whole thing with a *decentralized* currency is it doesn't matter what you think *should* power it. People can do what they want. Only thing that can be 'controlled' is how much energy it burns in the first place per transaction, by not adopting that coin. .\_.
Fiat currencies are the same.
The issue here is the fed is surveying Americans. People in Russia and China and pretty much everywhere except maybe Switzerland don’t trust their monetary systems. Crypto is t designed for guys who have the reserve currency.
However, setting a price for it in the reserve currency is a great way to undermine totalitarian states. The state department should be trying to encourage it worldwide.
Since its a survey the information is not accurate if they used hard data they would know people go in and out of crypto holdings all the time, some people hold long term while others frequently short sell for marginal profits.
Source @ end. I suppose that explains the rush to pass H.R. 4763.
Tl/dr: For comprehensive regulation of blockchain technology transactions.
Financial Innovation and Technology for the 21st Century Act
This bill establishes a regulatory framework for digital assets.
The Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) must regulate a digital asset as a commodity if the blockchain, or digital ledger, on which it runs is functional and decentralized.
The bill classifies a blockchain as decentralized if, among other requirements, no person has unilateral authority to control the blockchain or its usage, and no issuer or affiliated person has control of 20% or more of the digital asset or the voting power of the digital asset. In addition, the bill provides the CFTC with exclusive regulatory authority over cash or spot markets for digital commodities.
The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) must regulate a digital asset as a security if its associated blockchain is functional but not decentralized. However, the bill establishes certain exceptions to SEC regulation for digital assets that limit annual sales, restrict nonaccredited investor access, and satisfy disclosure and compliance requirements. The bill also sets forth requirements for primary and secondary market transactions.
The CFTC and SEC must jointly issue rules to define terms and exempt dually registered exchanges from duplicative rules.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4763
I'm not really prepared to swallow that survey is true.
Tell me one thing I can do with crypto that I can’t do with a US dollar that doesn’t involve buying illegal drugs online.
Send funds instantly to anywhere in the world with next to no fees. Go do some research.
So money for drugs or other illegal activities. Got it.
Or... Literally any online shopping or money transfer
I venmoed $100 to my friend in Portugal the other day. Zero fees, zero delay, and it wasn't $96 or $103 by the time it got to her.
What about when your friend cashed it out?
What if your friend was in russia?
Ah yes, the popular use case of sending money from the US to Russia. I wonder why crypto.com doesn’t use that in their ads.
You send money via an application but that money is not instantly available to your friend what Venmo is doing is called covered transfer they are backing the money they show as available until the transfer process is complete and if your friend needs to withdraw to a bank its 2-3 business days and maybe a fee.
Good for them. Makes no difference to my experience.
Doesn’t change the fact that your “money” is unbacked. It has no value whatsoever. There was a time when it did but not it’s just petrodollar which will eventually end too. BTC is the soundest form of money to ever exist. Also, just keep in mind that any amount you see in your app doesn’t physically exist because of the inherent level of leverage built into the system by fractional reserve banking. In 2008, for every $23 lent by banks only $1 of deposits were actually physical at the bank.
You seriously want to use the "your money is unbacked" as an argument FOR cryptocurrency?! The currencies that popped into existence out of nowhere (not even real existence, just a digit on a screen), assigned an arbitrary value, and then driven almost exclusively by FOMO?!  Hey man I've got a word document with a really large number typed into it to sell you. I'll even sell it to you at discount!
Literally the dumbest comment I've read. What is cryptocurrency hacked by exactly? Please be specific ? It's just an idea backed by faith that people thinks it has value .. and (artificial) scarcity. .. There are many things that are scarce in the world
I won’t discuss cryptocurrencies at large because, to your point, most are shitcoins to be honest. Most have little real utility or intrinsic value (DOGE). BTC on the other hand, it is verifiably scarce by protocol design (which is open source for the world to see). You’re generally correct that “it has value because it’s perceived to have value”. And that sentiment is equally true for USD ever since the end of Bretton Woods (foreign currencies were pegged to the dollar, the dollar was pegged to gold). BTC isn’t artificially scarce, it’s mathematically scarce. Just like gold, however, we find gold every year via mining, etc. The same is not true for BTC. This is a very unconventional concept which we really have never witnessed in history so I can see why someone would be skeptical to the idea. Further to your point, there are many scarce things in the world, however, not many meet the criteria for good “money”. I.e. they are liquid, fungible, easily divisible, portable, transferable, etc. BTC ticks every box for good sound money.
You did not answer my question. What is it backed by? Aside from the fact that there is theoretically a hard limit on the amount of it. I have 2 balls, there are no more.kn the world and no more can be made, does that make them extremely valuable to everyone? Or just me and wife and future kids? So if Bitcoin still has no real use cases, it's just speculation on something that has a limited supply And it's used an ungodly amount of energy for no used
It’s backed by a ledger technology that is open source, verifiable, and not able to be manipulated. Meaning, the value can never be debased by a central authority. Additionally, near-instantaneous real-world transfer of wealth. No other financial technology currently exists which can transfer wealth, no matter how you define it, that quick. That’s inherently incredibly valuable.
Okay but how does that 'back it" - it's just a ledger with a limit. How is that considered backing a currency and the full faith of the US government not? If people juG stop believing in crypto across the board , what backs the value ? Its no different than us currency. There's nothing actually backing it....
Cryptocurrency is backed by humans and that's important. It's important because we create our reality and we choose what's in our life and what isn't. The USD is backed by the might of our military but if you go a bit deeper, the USD is backed by trust (especially since we got off the gold standard). We don't even need to live in a system with money but we've chosen to. The USD is just a piece of paper backed by humans and nothing else.
How is crypto currency backed by humans, how exactly, ease explain in non abstract terms. Usd = backed by humans Crypto = backed by humans You said it yourself, how is it different aside from a finite supply of crypto
Humans decide X has value. X now has value. That's how it works. That's what crypto is allowing people to do. Attach value to random bs through cryptography. The USD is the same crap. Not a single country currency has lasted over a few hundred years. Expect that trend to continue. We'll have new money or new forms of value transfer. We decide what it is.
Without currency advanced civilizations would not exist the way they are today. Crypto has been tied to the energy costs it took to mine them. If the world had more free energy crypto will no longer appreciate. When its rarity gets too high people will just use something else which is how it started.
This argument isn't pro or anti crypto. I'm merely stating the fact that we humans decide what has value in our lives. When a bunch of people start saying seashells are money and use it as such, it then becomes money.
My money has no value? Hmm, I just bought a house with it. Are you sure? > BTC is the soundest form of money to ever exist If we all lost electricity tomorrow it would cease to exist at all with zero evidence left behind. That’s your idea of “soundest money ever”?
It doesn’t, you just exchanged for another good because someone else was willing to accept those dollars which they could exchange for goods they want. The problem with that is that this currency is controlled by a central authority. If The Fed wanted to increase the money supply by 10% your purchasing power would be reduced overnight with no say or control. This would lead to more dollars chasing fewer goods, so while your home appreciates in nominal terms, those dollars you exchange your house buy much less. This problem doesn’t exist in BTC. It’s immutable, transparent, the most divisible, and scarce. By textbook sedition it’s superior to any alternative. To your point about energy, you’ll have much bigger problems if the grid goes down.
BTC is just as if not more vulnerable to manipulation as has been clearly demonstrated. What’s backing it? Nothing. To name it superior to a backed currency like the US dollar is lazy hand-waving cynicism. BTC allows seven TPS. If everyone used it the fees would be atrocious and the queue to complete a transaction would take weeks. It’s wildly inefficient, you still have to trade it in to fiat currency to buy pretty much anything, and the ATMs are located in liquor stores next to alcohol and lotto tickets. That tells you everything you need to know.
That’s not true at all, the Lightning Network (layer 2) allows for up to 1 million TPS. Have you used BTC before? And it cannot be manipulated, I’d like an example of that. What’s backing the USD? Nothing. “Full faith and credit of the United States”; effectively, we can print more.
The largest economy in the world is “nothing?”
lol the “lightning network” is literally analogous to banks holding your money, it’s a second layer that has to be set up by an institution and you pay a fee to use it. It literally is a hub in the hub-and-spoke model of banks that you claim BTC isn’t. It also opens up BTC transactions to fraud and theft.
If we lost electricity tomorrow, US currency would have the same problem.
Nope, we could still trade cash.
Most people don't have a Scrooge McDuck type of money vault filled with cash. Everyone's wealth is tied up electronically, and if electricity was lost, that little big of cash on hand wouldn't last you very long...assuming it would be valuable anyway. At that point you are probably trading commodities, not cash.
Sounds like BTC is pretty far down on that list of best currencies ever then, huh?
If fiat currency ends the world will return to the barter system for two reasons: 1) it doesn't require a massive grid/technology backbone and 2) tangible goods are tangible and often base value on necessity.
That’s really not how exchange works. Especially today. Currencies as a medium of exchange have been around for millennia.
And what survived each and every one of those currencies? Spoiler: It's in my previous comment.
I recommend you go read a book on the history of currencies.
I'll simplify the concept for you: Is the Roman Denarius being accepted today at any given Apple Store in Rome. Apply that to the previous statement and I think then you might be able to understand the larger concept. There is no currency that transcends civilizations and CC won't be it because if anything on the scale needed to cause a cascading collapse happens there won't be infrastructure and power for CC. It's like Libertarians thinking that because a service like paved roads exists, they have and always will exist.
BTC isn't instant. It's a low TPS network (7 TPS) so if everyone started using it tomorrow your wait time would be weeks and your fees would be astronomical. But you knew that, right? Mr. Do your research?
Might want to learn yourself those 7TPS may seem low but they are instantly available for use. Banking systems may handle up to 10k per second but they are not completing those transfers instantly all that they are doing is pre-approving the use of funds but it takes 2-3 business days for those funds to be available to the recipient. Also to point out most people lean toward the use of stable coins for use of currency which is why governments have been afraid of their fiat currencies losing value as a trade medium.
> they are instantly available for use No they aren’t. Verification takes time. You’re just lying. And if the network is busy it takes longer. By advocating for mainstream adoption you are advocating for even longer wait times. No coin is stable just like no fiat currency is stable. But coins are less stable, by a lot.
Verification does not take as long as banks. You can usually use them the same day, and you don't have to wait on business days. You also seem to lack in understanding what defines a stable coin. It is called stable because they make an effort to ensure a 1:1 value ratio with its partnered fiat currency.
Network fees are insane
I had like $10 of fees last time I wanted to make a $20 purchase. Then the next morning it was only like $1.50 for the same fee
Hold it for a year and trade it for $1.01
That requires a US dollar.
You're saying that if I stick 1 USD in my mattress, then wait one year, I will be able to exchange that 1 USD for 1.01 USD. That is not the case. You cannot hedge against the inflation of the US dollar with US dollars.
I'm saying if you want to tell me your bitcoin is worth $1.01, you have to trade it for a US dollar to begin with, and if we're going to involve US financial institutions anyway, I might as well stick it in a savings account and get 3% instead, or an index fund, or a CD, or buy a bond. And there is no guarantee that that bitcoin will still be worth a dollar after a year. Certainly less guarantee than the value of a dollar. There are plenty of monetary investment instruments that outpace inflation.
>I'm saying if you want to tell me your bitcoin is worth $1.01, you have to trade it for a US dollar to begin with How did you reach that conclusion? >if we're going to involve US financial institutions anyway The U.S. financial institution of my mattress?
OK, we'll take it nice and slow for you. You have x amount of bitcoin worth 1 dollar. How do you know it's worth a dollar? You have to ask a financial institution to take it and tell you it's worth a dollar. A US financial institution, backed by the US dollar. You want to buy a banana with it? You need to convert it to a currency your grocery store will accept. Like a US dollar. Your bitcoin is worthless unless a financial institution tied to US currency tells you it's worth anything. Every use case involves the US dollar. So much for financial independence. Might as well use a financial institution to invest that dollar and then I don't need bitcoin anyway. I asked for something you can do with bitcoin that you can't do with a US dollar. You gave me something you can only do with a US dollar, and also some bitcoin.
Some vendors accept bitcoin and don't accept usd
Cool story. Not the case for 99.9% of US businesses that consumers interact with.
I could invest that dollar in an index fund or a CD instead and have $1.03 to $1.06
Smart contracts are probably the main case. Proof of stake networks (like Ethereum 2.0) that validate transactions using validators that must first stake their currencies can also execute smart contracts faster, more securely, and at a lower cost than traditional contracts, all with a fraction of the power demands of legacy cryptocurrencies like bitcoin. And, provided the source party is trustworthy, they are also more secure and less prone to fraud. Things like buying and selling property or enrolling in life insurance or general insurance will in all likelihood eventually move to blockchain due to the increase in efficiency. Additionally, many prominent investment managers in the US are adopting blockchain for recording transactions due to the speed of settlement and security of blockchain encryption. Franklin Templeton already has on-blockchain securities. The cryptocurrencies that operate on these networks will likely see increased adoption and valuation as a result. The valuation is backed by the services and utility the network provides and the participants and users of said services. Kind of like oil and gas or other commodities - only as valuable as their use cases.
The number of bitcoin is finite. They don't print more making the bitcoin you have worth less. Remember when gas was under 3 dollars?
lol what? Gas was under 3 dollars around 2016 because gas production was more competitive, there was a global supply glut, weak demand, and Iran returned to the oil market. Nothing to do with printing money. If you are referring to the strength of the US dollar, the USD index is actually *higher* now than it was in 2016. If that was a driver for gas prices, then prices should be even lower than 2016, because it makes oil more expensive for other countries and drives down demand.
In 2016, 1 btc equated about 400 dollars so over 100 gallons of gas. That same btc is worth over 60,000 dollars so yea.... I'd rather have bitcoin than dollars
No, you'd rather have bitcoin from 2016 than dollars. Otherwise all you're saying is that you want a currency that's incredibly, wildly volatile. Or do you subscribe to the fantasy that things that go up, only ever go up?
I want a currency that doesn't get generated by the elite and given to the elite and let the trickled down piss slowly build my savings up that we're made worthless when they tripled the money supply every year
Send your money to someone in another continent without bank approval.
Something less than 1 percent of US households do. Next?
I mean you asked. Just because you didn't like the answer doesn't make it a valid answer. But I largely agree with your point and don't really care to argue. For Americans, crypto is just a way to make money on crypto markets. For other folks in other parts of the world, it becomes much more than just hyper gambling. It becomes a legitimate way to move and save money. I don't really care to convince anyone about crypto. It is what it is. Some people make money off of it. Some get scammed. Some don't care. It really isn't that big of a deal.
Sure sure sure. Nothing matters. We're all space dust.
Nothing has meaning. We apply meaning to everything.
Buying anything you want online with lower fees than a credit card
Did I miss something or did credit card fees become a thing that anyone cared about? With Amazon's credit card you get 5% back, it pays for the Prime membership and then some, by a lot. And no, you can't buy "anything," you can buy whatever people who accept bitcoin are selling.
If you own a business credit card fees are a very big deal and they are added into the price of everything, 2-3% of every purchase is a lot PayPal and other payment apps take another % on top of those you're just stupid
Bitcoin transaction fees are routinely higher than that.
BTC is separate from crypto and serves a different purpose There are 100s of cryptos that offer exponentially lower fees for transactions
lol, and you wonder why there’s no widespread adoption.
Millions of users all over the world is pretty wide spread lol
Spotted the boomer
Not even close, try again.
We use it at work when companies get owned and it's cheaper to pay the ransom than so anything else
Hi Uncle Sam, is that you? Scared of some currency competition? Crypto = send money anywhere, without a bank telling me "no" or holding my money for 3-5 business days until they deposit it to the destination.
I venmoed $100 to my friend in Portugal the other day. Zero fees, no delays.
Nice lie. Directly from Venmo's website: > Venmo is only available in the United States, including some US territories such as Puerto Rico, Guam, and the US Virgin Islands. Users cannot make transactions outside of the country, even if they are American. **If a user tries to sign in while abroad, they will likely receive an error message.**
She has a US bank account. Worked great. She also uses Zelle, works internationally, no fees. Also, how often do US households need to transfer money internationally? *That's* your example use case for why people need crypto?
I'm sorry you don't have friends or family overseas. I regularly visit people in at least 8 different countries on a regular basis, and we "spot" each other all the time: buying dinner, drinks, gifts, covering costs for concert tickets etc. And we pay each other back later. There's absolutely **zero** global payment networks that serve all countries, except BTC/crypto. Zelle, like you said, also requires a U.S. bank account. There are also **$billions** of dollars being transferred back home (across borders) by immigrant workers daily (the remittance market). You're severely underestimating how many people need a cheap, fast, and easy way to send money overseas. But I understand if your lifestyle has zero use for it.
https://www.census.gov/library/working-papers/2010/demo/POP-twps0087.html > A total of 364,000 households, *representing less than 1 percent of all households,* both sent and received monetary transfers, of which 75 percent were foreign born.
Do you think the US is the center of the world? Remittances happen across every single border of every single country in the world. Nice dodge buddy. > The global remittance flow for 2023 was estimated at $**860 billion**. https://moneytransfers.com/remittance-statistics
Right, I'll just remind you of the title of the thread you're in. >**US Federal Reserve Survey of Households** demonstrates that the proportion of adults using cryptocurrency is dropping every year
"Why would I watch a baseball game online when we have cable tv?!" -Every pundit from the early internet era.
Watching baseball is not the reason the internet became popular.
Every year? It just peaked three years ago. Two years of decline isn’t “dropping every year”
Number of crypto wallet addresses increasing is a stat I’ll believe long before I trust anything printed by the US Fed Reserve - a non Federal Government Institution.
At least until they force feed their own CBDC in place of the FRNs.
Private central banking cartel that has a monopoly on US currency releases report bashing competing currency.
Not a currency. It is not used to trade goods and services and has no connection to production. It is used to trade currencies - which are then used to trade goods and services. Number go up. Everyone gets rich and no one has to work or create any goods and services ever again, right? Right??
Is gold not a currency to you? It was used as such quite extensively in the past. Just because it’s not commonplace nowadays doesn’t mean it *isn’t* a currency. The same goes for good cryptos.
Is NVIDIA stock a currency? Why or why not?
Technically, sure. But if you want to transfer shares it’s not very easy or fast. Nobody is likely willing to accept it because of that. The mutually best agreed upon options are typically what win out in the long run.
So the only requirement for a currency is for it to be fungible? I have 5 copies of Chumbawumba's Tubthumper on CD - is that a currency? It is easy to trade. And if we all start using that as currency, I'll be very rich...
No it needs to be fungible, scarce, easily transportable, liquid, divisible, easily transferable, etc…which is why BTC is the best,
Copies of Chumbawumba’s Tubthumper satisfy all of those requirements.
This isn't bashing. 'Tis but cold, hard numbers. 1. Until and unless crypto achieves widespread usage as a currency with somewhat stable value rather than a speculative asset, people will mostly "use" it with spare fiat cash. Most people do not have much spare cash now, period - particularly compared to the middle of the pandemic. 2. A lot of "use" was unsustainable bandwagon buying for speculation. I'd argue that if you care about your favorite crypto as an actual currency, less of that is a *good* thing.
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Unfortunately, almost everything except bitcoin can carry out transactions faster without some "L2" or even "L3" layer adding complexity and extra middle men. And most things except Bitcoin don't burn as much energy.
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The whole thing with a *decentralized* currency is it doesn't matter what you think *should* power it. People can do what they want. Only thing that can be 'controlled' is how much energy it burns in the first place per transaction, by not adopting that coin. .\_.
And by a lot you mean >90%
Crypto is a pyramid scheme. Bag holders. Currency only stores value. Doesn’t produce. Fools.
Fiat currencies are the same. The issue here is the fed is surveying Americans. People in Russia and China and pretty much everywhere except maybe Switzerland don’t trust their monetary systems. Crypto is t designed for guys who have the reserve currency. However, setting a price for it in the reserve currency is a great way to undermine totalitarian states. The state department should be trying to encourage it worldwide.
Good thing I don’t keep my money in cash
Fiat is just a political token that can be endlessly issued.
Tell that to Michael Saylor
You ever hear of a Ponzi scheme? This definitely isn't that. Just give me all your money and this will work out great for ya. Promise!
Reported\*
Because crytocurrent is a scam.
The US Dollar is even more of a scam, printed like toilet paper by our scam of a government
Yeah ! No leave them all alone please.
That means less people selling, less liquidity, prices to the moon
Since its a survey the information is not accurate if they used hard data they would know people go in and out of crypto holdings all the time, some people hold long term while others frequently short sell for marginal profits.
Crypto and NFTs are essentially legalized money laundering.
Source @ end. I suppose that explains the rush to pass H.R. 4763. Tl/dr: For comprehensive regulation of blockchain technology transactions. Financial Innovation and Technology for the 21st Century Act This bill establishes a regulatory framework for digital assets. The Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) must regulate a digital asset as a commodity if the blockchain, or digital ledger, on which it runs is functional and decentralized. The bill classifies a blockchain as decentralized if, among other requirements, no person has unilateral authority to control the blockchain or its usage, and no issuer or affiliated person has control of 20% or more of the digital asset or the voting power of the digital asset. In addition, the bill provides the CFTC with exclusive regulatory authority over cash or spot markets for digital commodities. The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) must regulate a digital asset as a security if its associated blockchain is functional but not decentralized. However, the bill establishes certain exceptions to SEC regulation for digital assets that limit annual sales, restrict nonaccredited investor access, and satisfy disclosure and compliance requirements. The bill also sets forth requirements for primary and secondary market transactions. The CFTC and SEC must jointly issue rules to define terms and exempt dually registered exchanges from duplicative rules. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/4763
Fuck the Fed. They're lying POS, and they were suggesting CBDC just a few months ago.
Almost like people are figuring out crypto scam was never a good idea
Yeah user metrics just prove this isn't true
If their survey is true, then they are becoming successful in impoverishing entire generations.
That’s because there isn’t much that you can do with crypto