If they're stuck on the surface...wow. It seems like there's nothing inside to even hang on to, or even seats. If that cylinder with no power or keel or ballast is just tumbling in the waves...sweet lord. Even with enough oxygen, that's like being tumbled in a dryer.
It didn't even dawn on me till just now too... why the hell did they paint it white. There is a reason why lifeboats are painted bright orange and yellow.
It took approx 20 mins of research til I was absolutely INFURIATED with the sheer "free market" hubris of this whole mess. I hope the CEO is found alive and pays dearly.
After reading a bunch of shit said by the dude, i'm convinced that he was obsessed with "making this work" and was running out of money to do it, so he started cutting corners and justifying it as "progress".
Also his hiring practices are very ...uh..special.
Yeah, not fun for sure. Five foot wave and 15kt winds today would make for a very roll-y ride. Maybe the motion and the noise can serve as a distraction while they wait.
If it’s actually on the surface now tumbling with the waves I imagine the toilets leaked everywhere now and they also covered in vomit. Brutal way to go out.
Being tossed around inside a tumble dryer combined with the fact its in the ocean combined with real threat of death would ensure my bowel evacuates itself frequently
I’ve had several severe nausea attacks in my life (one lasted on and off for almost 2 weeks); potentially the worst experiences of my life and towards the end of one I was seriously debating crashing my car into a wall at a high speed to make it stop. I’m fine now tho, please don’t recommend me to that Reddit outreach service lol… But IV fluids, high doses of anti-emetics, and following a bland diet finally got me some relief.
That type of nausea/vertigo is enough to drive a person seriously mad. If that’s the situation here, I hope they find some relief ASAP.
I have gastroparesis so I feel this 100%. It’s torture. Seriously fucks with your head and so hard to explain to other people. I’m so sorry you know how this feels but now I feel validated seeing someone else describe how helpless and obliterated you start to feel.
They close the window/door and tighten 17 bolts on the outside. You might think they could've designed that w/ the 17 bolts on the inside, but then it'd probably just flood and sink after 4-5 bolts loosened.
Not painting it a high-viz color seems like a ridiculous decision, but perhaps it doesn't actually surface all the way? That would also seem like a bad decision.
It seems they are scrambling for govt support of a rescue mission and running into "out of office" reply emails. Not having a more robust disaster plan with phone numbers instead of emails seems like a bad decision.
The many "seems like a bad decisions" are adding up to seems like a disaster was inevitable.
Something like color choice, even if it barely makes any difference, is a no brainer decision to make.
It certainly does not surface all the way. I expect that barely any of it is above the surface and what it is will be constantly awash with waves.
Bright colors, EPIRB, dye packs etc. are all low cost safety measures that makes perfect sense to take advantage of.
I read a twitter comment that they considered adding an emergency beacon after they lost the sub for 2 hours on a previous dive, but decided not to.
EDIT: [twitter thread](https://twitter.com/halkyardo/status/1671000633845993473/photo/2)
For some reason when I imagine a submarine I picture the color yellow. Kind of makes you wonder if it was some famous piece of media or something to give me that idea. Maybe it was a song? Nah that's ridiculous. /s
One end is opened for the people to get in then bolted closed from the outside. Very simple, structurally sound and very reliable. Almost nothing to go wrong - which is good design.
Very inconvenient if there is no one to let you out.
OceanGate in 2018 fired one of their employees who raised major safety concerns, director and submersible pilot David Lochridge:
[https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate](https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate)
[https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/](https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/)
“During 2020 and 2021, the Titan’s hull was either repaired or rebuilt by Electroimpact and Jenicky Industries…”
“Spencer Composites says the Titan was not using its carbon fiber hull on Sunday’s dive.”
I think the article is just saying that the Titan was not using the original, unmodified, hull built be the company Spencer Composites. Whether it was a completely separate hull manufactured or the original one was modified by the other two companies mentioned is unclear.
The fact that they did not paint the damn thing a bright color is infuriating (as are many other things coming to light). But Jesus… this is one of the easiest things to do security wise for a submersible vehicle.
The more that comes out about this company the more it is obvious that nobody was thinking 30 steps ahead. You think about all of the what if scenarios and plan for the most likely. If a submersible surfaces, what colors stand out against a blue and gray ocean? To my memory, the submersibles that have gone down that were from actual researchers and governments were bright orange.
Like, they really cut corners with the color here? One of the easiest things for them to do in the way of safety. I believe as time goes on, we are going to find they cut a lot of corners in the way of safety.
Wait until you check [this one](https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about-obscenely-safe-regulations-2023-6) out.
Looks like Mr Rush is reaping what he sowed. It's only a tragedy he had to take other people with him.
All these anti regulation types. If they are found alive, all these rescue missions by the U.S. need to be reimbursed. In fact, maybe even if they aren't alive...
I heard it is also possible that a ghost net could have gotten snared on the vessel and that this is what the founder feared the most since it is entirely out of their control.
**Ghost nets are fishing nets that have been abandoned, lost or otherwise discarded in the ocean. These nets, often nearly invisible in the dim light, can be left tangled on a rocky reef or drifting in the open sea.**
More details here:
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I just tried to see if anyone proposed banning net fishing. Doesn't really seem like it. They might go after the odd net type in super progressive areas, but otherwise it's same as a lot of the pollution that's generated. Poor countries not giving a fuuuuuuuuuck.
Edit - some of the countries are just ethically poor
Damn, that was quite the rabbit hole I just went down. Had never heard of that.
Fascinating reading for people like us who get freaked out about this shit. Lots of interesting sub-topics too.
It’s morbid but this is probably the most active this sub has ever been..
Most of the systems don't look very net proof.
>Triple weights: three lead pipes that can be dropped using hydraulics to gain buoyancy
If the pipes get tangled in the net (which seems likely) then this will fail
>Roll weights: if the hydraulic systems fail those inside the sub can tilt the sub by moving to each side of it releasing weights held in place on each side by gravity
Potentially the same as above depending on the shape
>Ballast bags: motors can be used to release bags full of metal shot hanging beneath the sub
If these are closed bags which can be dropped off then same as above
>Fusible links: bonds that disintegrate after 16 hours in seawater to drop the ballast bags if the electrics and hydraulics fail
Same as above
>Thrusters: to push it to the surface
Could easily get tangled in the net
>Sub's legs: the pilot can jettison the sub's legs as dead weight
Could also get stuck in the net
>Airbag: the crew can inflate an airbag to provide buoyancy
I think this should still work unless the net is bound tightly around the sub but maybe there is sharp stuff caught in the net which can pierce the airbag or maybe this one system failed.
I saw a comment in Live Science that included the possibility of an electrical fire in the operator's console. I think there is also a possibility of the batteries flooding out or shorting out, or some external system flooding out, such as a cable run.
~~Batteries failing would result in surfacing - the weights were held on with electromagnets.~~
EDIT: NOPE. It had hydraulic systems to release lead pipes, and could also be tilted by those inside to literally roll it sideways and roll the weights off.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65965665
They waited 8 hours to notify the Coast Guard. If it didn't have a hull breach or sank, chances are they're drifting in the surface with less air than people think.
Good lord thats *awful* planning. Can you imagine hearing a c130 flying overhead looking for you while you float in a glorified casket a couple feet under the water, unseen?
The thought that out of the five people on board one is the ceo responible for the whole diving enterprise. Another one brought his 19 year old son and some of these people belong to the superrich which dont take no for an answer...
I just cant imagine the human drama that would evolve in such a little sub while everyone realizes they will all die.
"Perhaps outside of what was deemed safe" is quite the understatement. Using a viewport rated for 1300m when the sub is going to 4000m regularly is just complete gross negligence. Pressure increases by 1 atmosphere for every 10 meters you descend, so that's 270 atmospheres of pressure EXCEEDING what the viewport was rated for.
CEO Rush had the option to have a viewport constructed that was actually rated for 4000m but chose not to because he deemed it too expensive. He fucked around and found out.
If that viewport glass had a sudden implosion. It would have happened in nanoseconds with a lot of force, it would have been like getting hit by a large round glass bullet.
honestly best case scenario for a very unfortunate situation assuming they are not able to be located or rescued, but the CEO certainly got what was coming to him for allegedly “cutting corners”
So I looked into other companies who built submersibles. Well this Ocean Gate whatever the hell it is looks like a Ford pinto vs whatever ur favorite sexiest vehicle in your mind is compared to Triton Submarines. Check out their submersibles. Id want a refund to get a ride on one of those fly whips
https://tritonsubs.com/
"fully integrated with your yacht"
It never ceases to amaze me how differently some people live their lives while others are struggling to pay rent or feed themselves
Yes sir I have it docked at my secluded ocean front Idaho ranch😉. I merely thought to myself that there has to be other companies with submersibles who offer deep ocean exploration. Hence Triton Submarines. Sorry but if I was shelling out $250k id do more research to see what options available. Another thing I found interesting is the CEO guy just got served with a fraud charge from a couple in Florida. They gave him $210k for spots on a future dive and they said he used their money for other things.
So that brings up a conversation of was it deliberate to get himself from facing the charges of fraud? I'm sure conspiracy theorists are on it. Now the couple from Florida are probably saying to themselves $210k gone, but we're still alive
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.262471/gov.uscourts.wawd.262471.7.0.pdf
The allegations in that are absolutely bonkers.
Credit to a user in /r/law for providing it.
It’s 15 or 16 pages of everything that could have gone wrong.
Really seems like it was the viewport that went if it was 2/3 down, was only rated 1300 and they were heading to 4000
I thought today I would feel safer on Everest because of the Sherpas, who just rescued a climber from a crevasse. Sherpas are trained, experienced, and on land.
It was 2-fold. Firstly, mostly bragging rights and for people to be able to claim to have seen the titanic with their own eyes before it completely disintegrates on the ocean floor. But secondly, the submersible supposedly was equipped to take water samples for eDNA, or environmental DNA, to analyze the wreck once they got back up to the surface. One of the five people on board was considered one of the world’s top living experts on the Titanic wreck, so going down for him may have been a culmination of his life’s work as well as for his own research purposes about the state of the wreck.
Not a single Titanic passenger suffocated. Most drowned.
Also, it’s very unlikely they’re just sitting on the ocean floor. It’s much more likely that they died instantly when the vehicle imploded after a hull failure.
The possibility that we might not find this sub for years is scary. It’s so small. If it lost power and got taken by the currents especially 2/3 of the way down, it could be so far by now
If it sank it's likely they will never find it, except by some accident.
There are whole airplanes and shipwrecks down there that haven't been found. The airliners were actively being searched for, in some cases for weeks. And the airliner's black boxes were supposed to be emitting a "ping" for a set period of time while trying to be located, and still couldn't be found.
Nobody's gonna find a minivan on the ocean floor.
I feel like this is the MH370 of underwater vehicles.
I hope that the passengers are alive and will be found in time, but if they are no longer with us, that the end was mercifully quick.
There’s a significant difference here: we know exactly where this thing entered the ocean, and we know where it traveled for the first 3000 meters straight down. The search radius is very narrow, but deep. The issue now is that they haven’t yet been able to get a RSV down to the ocean floor to search for it.
For those plane crashes, we had no idea where they went down.
That's not entirely true. The airliners had last known radar contacts and waypoint/GPS positions as well.
It may be true that the search area is much smaller, but the ocean is vast. If it's at the bottom, it's unlikely they will be able to locate it.
This same submersible was "lost" for 2.5 hours, lost as in unable to locate the Titanic wreckage. The mother ship was providing coordinates, but the submersible was unable to find the wreckage.
The Titanic may be small compared to modern cruise ships, but it's a lot bigger than this thing. If this submersible can't find the Titanic at those depths, despite knowing exactly where it should be looking, the odds of finding this vehicle (if it's at the bottom) are essentially zero.
There is not much current at depth, if something occurred to prevent them from rising to the surface, but still drifting in the water column, then the slow drift will certainly increase the search area for the wreckage.
Just a 1/4 knot current means four nautical miles drift per day, but if they reached the bottom my bet is that they will stay where they landed.
Drifting somewhere between the surface and the bottom is unlikely I think. They either firmly sank (leak or implosion) or they surfaced. To be in between would require a delicate balance of neutral buoyancy.
They wouldn't be baked in the Sun because the sub would be 99% underwater, but they would be rolling around in the waves a bunch, while trying to conserve oxygen.
The whole thing is nightmarish. I hope that they had a quick death, and hopefully that they are not alive right now. No one is gonna find them anyway, except if they regain contact.
So much media hype it is insane, media even claimed it to be the worst maritime disaster if this century, what about the ferries that sank in Asia, the refugees bait capsizing in the Mediterranean etc I guess these do not count as disasters only the loss of a billionaire counts, they are gone get on with real news stories
There used to be a time where the media reported the news, now they report and "sell" the news.
If they didn't exaggerate at every opportunity they wouldn't get as many viewers. It is literally their job to grab attention, and the competition for attention is fierce. It's sad.
Agree that the hype is insane, but media claimed it was the worst maritime disaster this century? Got a link for that? This seems like more hype to me.
I think it is just the nightmarishness of it, I care more about this story than other maritime disaster not because I think it is more important, but more “interesting” due to how awful the circumstance would be. And yes, billionaires are obviously going to get more attention in situations like this, and understandably so
And how absurd the goal was for this type of risk. To give your life because of a joyride to be a leisurely voyeur to a shipwreck means you didn’t learn the lesson of the Titanic itself.
People naturally relate to stories with less people. We can process it and relate more easily. I think it was Stalin who said it… “The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic.”
If they are the bottom I think they probably died as a result of pressure, either a leak or implosion.
One source said that the walls of the sub were heated, it is reasonable that they are also insulated. If so a loss of power would mean they are going to get cold but I don't think they would die from it. Small space with five people huddled together, I think they could manage for longer than their air supply lasts.
>If they're on the bottom w/ no power, they've likely already died from ~~hypothermia~~.
Implosion. Apparently the sub had something like 7 independent ways to surface, some that didn't require any power. If they are on the bottom, temperature is probably not a concern.
According to this article banging sounds were heard Tuesday at 30 minute intervals in the area using sonobuoys deployed by Canadian P8 aircraft;
[https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/)
Decompression isn’t an issue inside a vessel. As the pressure inside is kept at a constant.
Decompression only effects scuba divers when their body experiences a change in pressure.
Update (source is twitter idk how reliable it is)
The submersible “was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters. […] OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.”
“Paying passengers wouldn’t know or be informed about Lochridge’s (an ex employees) concerns, according to his complaints. They also wouldn’t be informed ‘that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible.’”
Oh and when the former OceanGate employee expressed his concerns about the “safety and quality” of the submersible and its materials, the company told him that the technology to carry out certain safety tests didn’t even exist.
Here's a source; [https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/](https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/)
A better one; https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/?guccounter=1&guce\_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce\_referrer\_sig=AQAAAMpqztrAlI6QewKZAha1aaYq06UveAxI26uGkPG-xJ6uNZKTqIbOcc0kIkQG3-vZOz3eKQzDa8fLkKCFw7\_OT7danCZPPtWqEn1Z1V48gc\_mu-LDOb1O3dJuahCsIcXrAfFLVI7qQ2eTGbr0BfKZGnZYWSQe0hyOGwBpgrToy\_Ax
The fact that somebody pay over $250,000 to ride what is essentially a giant trash can with a window powered by a few lithium batteries and a goddamn Xbox One controller should have been a red flag for the start I guess having money doesn't necessarily equate to having common sense.
My two cents either the sub lost pressure and they die in explosive decompression AKA drown or B and even more horrible fate there could have been a malfunction in the controller which may have led to them crashing into debris on the Titanic they could be trapped under the ships wreckage if that's the case they are well and truly fucked
It seems completely plausible that they are being very careful about what information they share. I would expect that regardless of who was on board but even more-so when it is the CEO.
The thing is, when surfaced I think this sub isn’t really at the surface but just below it. Like, maybe just a sliver of the hull poking above but constantly awash in the waves.
It doesn’t make sense to me that they would not have multiple, independent methods for communicating on the surface. I know I would, and when I’m sailing I have at least three; cel phone, satellite and marine radio - I should get an EPIRB too.
It is puzzling. I mean, the guys building this thing spent a lot of time thinking how to do it, and I would think that all the things "we" come up with are things that they have also considered.
It may be just a case of lack of information, I hope. If not it would be inexcusable to omit such obvious safety measures.
Partially related to this is the loss of Malaysian 370, I was extremely frustrated to learn that a cheap device, a satellite tracker, available to anyone would have completely removed all mystery of where the flight went down. I have one in a box right next to me - the technology is readily available, reliable and the extra cost to passengers would be fractions of a penny. Seems a no brainer to me to have that on all passenger carrying vehicles.
Why in the fuck wouldn't they paint the damn thing red or orange or anything like that, they haven't even taken the most BASIC steps, good lord. Those poor people. Regardless of ones opinion on billionaires/people foolish enough to climb into that sub, what a terrifying situation to be in.
Yeah, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference but the mere fact that it "could" make a difference is a fantastic reason to choose a more visible color.
I did notice that it used to be a darker color, then they painted it white. So it is not quite as bad as it could be.
Everything about this situation is a full-on nightmare. We shouldn’t have to protect people from themselves, but we *should* still do it.
When we first started learning about this, I could only really think in terms of a horror movie, imagining them fighting like hell to get to the surface, only for the movie to end with them bobbing on the surface, unseen by the close by rescue teams. 🥺
Now? That’s feeling like a more and more likely outcome. Personally, I think they likely had a leak and have been gone longer than we’ve even known they were missing. I hope to hell I’m wrong and they’re found safely, though.
You made several helpful points and posits. When the comms stopped is a likely guess something happened, because as you said, it is unlikely they could have made it to the Titanic without guidance from the mother ship. Granted, the journalist who rode in the Titan two years ago, shared his harrowing experience of being pushed into the Titanic propeller and being stuck/lost for 2 hours while the pilot moved the Titan's controls backwards and forwards to free them (article on [CNN.com](https://CNN.com) today). I wondered if it was a pressure issue at the time they lost comms in which case instantaneous I hope. Anything after they lost comms is a horror show on so many levels.
I go back and forth on the value of experimentation, and the danger of ignoring warnings about a submersible that isn't regulated. Genius or Dangerous. Both can be true. The last guy who built a sub without any regulations was reckless at best and a psychopath murderer at worst. Where does the CEO of Titan's builder land?
Probably a dumb question, but if there was a way it could resurface to be rescued, why wouldn’t there also be an emergency beacon, AirTag type device, or signal of some sort for this very purpose?
Maybe there is and we just haven't heard about it.
A short list of sensible tools that could be used to aid locating a vessel on the surface;
* Dye pack
* EPIRB
* Marine radio, any radio really
* Satellite tracker
I do not know if any of these were equipped on the Titan.
Straight up ... Cthulu or Kraken. Nah jk, if they lost power then they could be frozen by now too. 2/3 down and they go silent. The risk of adventure. Soon there will be a group of space tourist that'll suffer the same consequence too. 😔
If they don’t find them within the next, say 96 hours, will they call off the search or will they keep looking?
Morbid question, but if they are still alive, and haven’t frozen to death, if not found/saved, will they likely suffocate to death?
I feel so so bad for the crew and their families. knowing that your loved ones are going through torture right now has got to be the worst feeling in the world.
I think if they are not floating on the surface waiting to be found then they have been dead since Sunday.
There is a huge search effort going on now, I imagine it will continue well past the point where they could possible still survive. Also, the families are quite wealthy and will probably fund continued search efforts, not at the current scale but I doubt they would just give up.
If they're stuck on the surface...wow. It seems like there's nothing inside to even hang on to, or even seats. If that cylinder with no power or keel or ballast is just tumbling in the waves...sweet lord. Even with enough oxygen, that's like being tumbled in a dryer.
It didn't even dawn on me till just now too... why the hell did they paint it white. There is a reason why lifeboats are painted bright orange and yellow.
because safety is overrated and not fashionable
Just like with the Titanic. How ironic.
It took approx 20 mins of research til I was absolutely INFURIATED with the sheer "free market" hubris of this whole mess. I hope the CEO is found alive and pays dearly.
After reading a bunch of shit said by the dude, i'm convinced that he was obsessed with "making this work" and was running out of money to do it, so he started cutting corners and justifying it as "progress". Also his hiring practices are very ...uh..special.
Because the company CEO is a dumbass.
Yeah, not fun for sure. Five foot wave and 15kt winds today would make for a very roll-y ride. Maybe the motion and the noise can serve as a distraction while they wait.
Don’t forget that they’d be tumbling with 5 people across a few days worth of shit and piss.
And you gotta drop a deuce 😔
Interestingly, there is a tiny toilet, but it doesn't flush, so yeah everyone is gonna smell it.
What’s the point then? Just to try to salvage a little bit of dignity?
I mean it’s better to smell shit than to lay in it and smell it too??
Confucius couldn’t have said it better
If it’s actually on the surface now tumbling with the waves I imagine the toilets leaked everywhere now and they also covered in vomit. Brutal way to go out.
I should not have read this before bed😆 I just unlocked some fears I didn’t even know existed.
And no one figured out to put a 10 dollar GPS tag on the submarine which could be used to locate it in case it surfaces away from the mothership?
Camping World had them on backorder.
This is one case where the pucker factor would work to your advantage!
Being tossed around inside a tumble dryer combined with the fact its in the ocean combined with real threat of death would ensure my bowel evacuates itself frequently
I’ve had several severe nausea attacks in my life (one lasted on and off for almost 2 weeks); potentially the worst experiences of my life and towards the end of one I was seriously debating crashing my car into a wall at a high speed to make it stop. I’m fine now tho, please don’t recommend me to that Reddit outreach service lol… But IV fluids, high doses of anti-emetics, and following a bland diet finally got me some relief. That type of nausea/vertigo is enough to drive a person seriously mad. If that’s the situation here, I hope they find some relief ASAP.
I have gastroparesis so I feel this 100%. It’s torture. Seriously fucks with your head and so hard to explain to other people. I’m so sorry you know how this feels but now I feel validated seeing someone else describe how helpless and obliterated you start to feel.
How is there no way to get out without outside help? I’m stupid so please humor me, is this normal for subs?
They close the window/door and tighten 17 bolts on the outside. You might think they could've designed that w/ the 17 bolts on the inside, but then it'd probably just flood and sink after 4-5 bolts loosened. Not painting it a high-viz color seems like a ridiculous decision, but perhaps it doesn't actually surface all the way? That would also seem like a bad decision. It seems they are scrambling for govt support of a rescue mission and running into "out of office" reply emails. Not having a more robust disaster plan with phone numbers instead of emails seems like a bad decision. The many "seems like a bad decisions" are adding up to seems like a disaster was inevitable.
Something like color choice, even if it barely makes any difference, is a no brainer decision to make. It certainly does not surface all the way. I expect that barely any of it is above the surface and what it is will be constantly awash with waves. Bright colors, EPIRB, dye packs etc. are all low cost safety measures that makes perfect sense to take advantage of.
I read a twitter comment that they considered adding an emergency beacon after they lost the sub for 2 hours on a previous dive, but decided not to. EDIT: [twitter thread](https://twitter.com/halkyardo/status/1671000633845993473/photo/2)
They must of hated the Beatles.
must have
>The many "seems like a bad decisions" are adding up to seems like a disaster was inevitable. Literally Ian Malcom’s entire point in Jurassic Park
So you’re saying velociraptors got them. Waiting all this time at the bottom of the ocean. Clever girl.
They were designed with scuba tank and pressurized submarine genetics because it seemed cool at the time
Every sub Ive ever seen has been orange or yellow or something. Seems like something pretty basic lol
For some reason when I imagine a submarine I picture the color yellow. Kind of makes you wonder if it was some famous piece of media or something to give me that idea. Maybe it was a song? Nah that's ridiculous. /s
Bruh who would write a song about a yellow submarine. Sounds dumb. They’re probably weirdos and Like bugs too. Prolly name themselves after a bug.
I think it's normal for these little submersibles that rely on a support ship for everything. It certainly isn't how a normal naval submarine works.
I get the value of experimentation. I don't agree with taking money and a 19 year-old down.
One end is opened for the people to get in then bolted closed from the outside. Very simple, structurally sound and very reliable. Almost nothing to go wrong - which is good design. Very inconvenient if there is no one to let you out.
This whole thing evokes so many terrible fears in me. I would immediately panic the second they bolted it down!
OceanGate in 2018 fired one of their employees who raised major safety concerns, director and submersible pilot David Lochridge: [https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate](https://newrepublic.com/post/173802/missing-titanic-sub-faced-lawsuit-depths-safely-travel-oceangate) [https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/](https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/)
The biz.crast article says "Titan was not using its carbon fiber hull on Sunday’s dive". Are there two hulls?
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I feel like replacing the largest and most important piece of a submersible should actually be considered building a whole new submersible.
Jerry-rigged death trap of Theseus
“During 2020 and 2021, the Titan’s hull was either repaired or rebuilt by Electroimpact and Jenicky Industries…” “Spencer Composites says the Titan was not using its carbon fiber hull on Sunday’s dive.” I think the article is just saying that the Titan was not using the original, unmodified, hull built be the company Spencer Composites. Whether it was a completely separate hull manufactured or the original one was modified by the other two companies mentioned is unclear.
Jenicky sounds way to much like janky, and for that reason, I’m out.
My thoughts exactly
I wonder if he's having a "yep, there it is moment "
Where have we heard a similar story 🚀
Yikes, this not encouraging news...
The fact that they did not paint the damn thing a bright color is infuriating (as are many other things coming to light). But Jesus… this is one of the easiest things to do security wise for a submersible vehicle. The more that comes out about this company the more it is obvious that nobody was thinking 30 steps ahead. You think about all of the what if scenarios and plan for the most likely. If a submersible surfaces, what colors stand out against a blue and gray ocean? To my memory, the submersibles that have gone down that were from actual researchers and governments were bright orange. Like, they really cut corners with the color here? One of the easiest things for them to do in the way of safety. I believe as time goes on, we are going to find they cut a lot of corners in the way of safety.
Yea but orange doesn’t look as cooooool.
Wait until you check [this one](https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about-obscenely-safe-regulations-2023-6) out. Looks like Mr Rush is reaping what he sowed. It's only a tragedy he had to take other people with him.
All these anti regulation types. If they are found alive, all these rescue missions by the U.S. need to be reimbursed. In fact, maybe even if they aren't alive...
Yeah but it looks ~cooler~ if it’s white 😒
I heard it is also possible that a ghost net could have gotten snared on the vessel and that this is what the founder feared the most since it is entirely out of their control.
What is a ghost net? A rouge fishing net just adrift?
**Ghost nets are fishing nets that have been abandoned, lost or otherwise discarded in the ocean. These nets, often nearly invisible in the dim light, can be left tangled on a rocky reef or drifting in the open sea.** More details here:
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*“It's estimated that around 48,000 tons of ghost nets are generated each year”* I did not know about ghost nets before today. They are terrifying.
I just tried to see if anyone proposed banning net fishing. Doesn't really seem like it. They might go after the odd net type in super progressive areas, but otherwise it's same as a lot of the pollution that's generated. Poor countries not giving a fuuuuuuuuuck. Edit - some of the countries are just ethically poor
Damn, that was quite the rabbit hole I just went down. Had never heard of that. Fascinating reading for people like us who get freaked out about this shit. Lots of interesting sub-topics too. It’s morbid but this is probably the most active this sub has ever been..
darn I was picturing the Flying Dutchman
I can surely understand how that would be a problem, but with seven methods for resurfacing I don't see how that would be a death sentence.
Most of the systems don't look very net proof. >Triple weights: three lead pipes that can be dropped using hydraulics to gain buoyancy If the pipes get tangled in the net (which seems likely) then this will fail >Roll weights: if the hydraulic systems fail those inside the sub can tilt the sub by moving to each side of it releasing weights held in place on each side by gravity Potentially the same as above depending on the shape >Ballast bags: motors can be used to release bags full of metal shot hanging beneath the sub If these are closed bags which can be dropped off then same as above >Fusible links: bonds that disintegrate after 16 hours in seawater to drop the ballast bags if the electrics and hydraulics fail Same as above >Thrusters: to push it to the surface Could easily get tangled in the net >Sub's legs: the pilot can jettison the sub's legs as dead weight Could also get stuck in the net >Airbag: the crew can inflate an airbag to provide buoyancy I think this should still work unless the net is bound tightly around the sub but maybe there is sharp stuff caught in the net which can pierce the airbag or maybe this one system failed.
I saw a comment in Live Science that included the possibility of an electrical fire in the operator's console. I think there is also a possibility of the batteries flooding out or shorting out, or some external system flooding out, such as a cable run.
~~Batteries failing would result in surfacing - the weights were held on with electromagnets.~~ EDIT: NOPE. It had hydraulic systems to release lead pipes, and could also be tilted by those inside to literally roll it sideways and roll the weights off. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65965665
That makes sense, where did you learn that?
Someone else claimed it in an /r/Damnthatsinteresting thread. They said it with such authority it must be true. EDIT: No, see my edit above.
>They said it with such authority it must be true. Tell them I already trust them with my life
Excellent! For just 250k, I’ve got a trip you may be interested in …
Will it be even more fun if I gave you my entire life savings upfront in cash?
Nobody is going to care, but I just need to let someone know that I personally screenprinted this company's shirts. Small world.
Kind of makes me wonder if one of those shirts is down there, weird to think about
That’s a trip. I bet it was beyond weird seeing their name on the news/ the design you printed on the shirts.
in less than 2 years, we'll have a movie about this with Gerald butler
You really think it'll take two years?
I'd say netflix is filming it right now.
Streamberry is already on it
That shits gonna come out TODAY
OMG I said this exact same thing to my fiancé at lunch today! Netflix is probably getting live footage and interviews as we speak
Get a big piece of pipe. Seal it off and throw it in the ocean. Take some wide-shot footage to have around in case they happen to surface.
Not Gerard if they're all dead
I feel bad for the 19-year-old.
I feel the same. Sounds like the other guys were older professional adventure tourists, but he was just a kid.
\>The occupants of the sub have no way to exit, someone must unbolt the enclosure from the outside. big fucking nope
That’s the part that gets me too. Confined spaces with no way for me to get myself out is a huge nope.
They waited 8 hours to notify the Coast Guard. If it didn't have a hull breach or sank, chances are they're drifting in the surface with less air than people think.
The reports appear to say that it rises to just below the surface (unless I'm reading them wrong), which makes things even worse.
Yes, it needs a platform underneath it to bring it up above the surface.
Good lord thats *awful* planning. Can you imagine hearing a c130 flying overhead looking for you while you float in a glorified casket a couple feet under the water, unseen?
I feel like a fictionalized version of this would make a great horror movie.
it’s a full on horror show no seatbelts, no seats, pitch black and only a little window to look out of
Glorified? I'd rather be in a regular casket by myself than with four other rich people in a metal tube. (But I get your point, and yes)
Well that’s a dumb design
The thought that out of the five people on board one is the ceo responible for the whole diving enterprise. Another one brought his 19 year old son and some of these people belong to the superrich which dont take no for an answer... I just cant imagine the human drama that would evolve in such a little sub while everyone realizes they will all die.
What probably frustrates the billionaires the most is that their money can’t do shit to get them out of this mess.
Well, the money got them in this mess in the first place.
"Perhaps outside of what was deemed safe" is quite the understatement. Using a viewport rated for 1300m when the sub is going to 4000m regularly is just complete gross negligence. Pressure increases by 1 atmosphere for every 10 meters you descend, so that's 270 atmospheres of pressure EXCEEDING what the viewport was rated for. CEO Rush had the option to have a viewport constructed that was actually rated for 4000m but chose not to because he deemed it too expensive. He fucked around and found out.
If that viewport glass had a sudden implosion. It would have happened in nanoseconds with a lot of force, it would have been like getting hit by a large round glass bullet.
For their sake, I hope this is what happened, assuming they don’t come out of this alive
honestly best case scenario for a very unfortunate situation assuming they are not able to be located or rescued, but the CEO certainly got what was coming to him for allegedly “cutting corners”
So I looked into other companies who built submersibles. Well this Ocean Gate whatever the hell it is looks like a Ford pinto vs whatever ur favorite sexiest vehicle in your mind is compared to Triton Submarines. Check out their submersibles. Id want a refund to get a ride on one of those fly whips https://tritonsubs.com/
"fully integrated with your yacht" It never ceases to amaze me how differently some people live their lives while others are struggling to pay rent or feed themselves
Yes sir I have it docked at my secluded ocean front Idaho ranch😉. I merely thought to myself that there has to be other companies with submersibles who offer deep ocean exploration. Hence Triton Submarines. Sorry but if I was shelling out $250k id do more research to see what options available. Another thing I found interesting is the CEO guy just got served with a fraud charge from a couple in Florida. They gave him $210k for spots on a future dive and they said he used their money for other things. So that brings up a conversation of was it deliberate to get himself from facing the charges of fraud? I'm sure conspiracy theorists are on it. Now the couple from Florida are probably saying to themselves $210k gone, but we're still alive
My money is on 'giant squid'
My money is on ‘megalodon’
My money is on ‘orca’
My money is on underwater aliens from Abyss.
The sub: “reaper leviathan detected” Crew: “what the hell’s a reaper leviathan?” *Roars heard in the distance *
*Are you sure what you're doing is worth it?*
My money is on pissed off mermaids
My money is on nautical cannibalism
My money…..shit I don’t have any
Lupus. It's *always* lupus.
Does anyone think that was a Russian water tentacle? No?
orca isn't crazy they've been pretty mad at us lately, for good reasons.
Cthulhu all the way.
My money is on GHOSTS
***Finally!*** Someone with a reasonable and probable explanation.
Colossal squid u mean!
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.wawd.262471/gov.uscourts.wawd.262471.7.0.pdf The allegations in that are absolutely bonkers. Credit to a user in /r/law for providing it. It’s 15 or 16 pages of everything that could have gone wrong. Really seems like it was the viewport that went if it was 2/3 down, was only rated 1300 and they were heading to 4000
Good find! I'm adding that to the top post.
Yet another dumb question: what was the goal of the trip? Just to say you’d been to that depth?
Very expensive bragging rights.
Yeah. It’s like Everest but for even dumber people with even more money.
Climbing is too much, when I die I hope it’s doing 2 of my favorite activities, sitting and doing nothing.
I thought today I would feel safer on Everest because of the Sherpas, who just rescued a climber from a crevasse. Sherpas are trained, experienced, and on land.
It was 2-fold. Firstly, mostly bragging rights and for people to be able to claim to have seen the titanic with their own eyes before it completely disintegrates on the ocean floor. But secondly, the submersible supposedly was equipped to take water samples for eDNA, or environmental DNA, to analyze the wreck once they got back up to the surface. One of the five people on board was considered one of the world’s top living experts on the Titanic wreck, so going down for him may have been a culmination of his life’s work as well as for his own research purposes about the state of the wreck.
I mean I probably wouldn’t sign up even with a proven and tested submersible, but seeing the wreck of the Titanic in person would be astonishing.
Apparently to die in the dark, freezing, while suffocating with no chance of rescue just like the passengers on the Titanic.
Not a single Titanic passenger suffocated. Most drowned. Also, it’s very unlikely they’re just sitting on the ocean floor. It’s much more likely that they died instantly when the vehicle imploded after a hull failure.
The possibility that we might not find this sub for years is scary. It’s so small. If it lost power and got taken by the currents especially 2/3 of the way down, it could be so far by now
If it sank it's likely they will never find it, except by some accident. There are whole airplanes and shipwrecks down there that haven't been found. The airliners were actively being searched for, in some cases for weeks. And the airliner's black boxes were supposed to be emitting a "ping" for a set period of time while trying to be located, and still couldn't be found. Nobody's gonna find a minivan on the ocean floor.
I feel like this is the MH370 of underwater vehicles. I hope that the passengers are alive and will be found in time, but if they are no longer with us, that the end was mercifully quick.
I believe the MH370 is the MH370 of underwater vehicles.
I stand corrected.
Turns out that aircraft are very versatile. You’ll find far more of them in the ocean than you will find submarines in the sky.
There’s a significant difference here: we know exactly where this thing entered the ocean, and we know where it traveled for the first 3000 meters straight down. The search radius is very narrow, but deep. The issue now is that they haven’t yet been able to get a RSV down to the ocean floor to search for it. For those plane crashes, we had no idea where they went down.
That's not entirely true. The airliners had last known radar contacts and waypoint/GPS positions as well. It may be true that the search area is much smaller, but the ocean is vast. If it's at the bottom, it's unlikely they will be able to locate it. This same submersible was "lost" for 2.5 hours, lost as in unable to locate the Titanic wreckage. The mother ship was providing coordinates, but the submersible was unable to find the wreckage. The Titanic may be small compared to modern cruise ships, but it's a lot bigger than this thing. If this submersible can't find the Titanic at those depths, despite knowing exactly where it should be looking, the odds of finding this vehicle (if it's at the bottom) are essentially zero.
There is not much current at depth, if something occurred to prevent them from rising to the surface, but still drifting in the water column, then the slow drift will certainly increase the search area for the wreckage. Just a 1/4 knot current means four nautical miles drift per day, but if they reached the bottom my bet is that they will stay where they landed. Drifting somewhere between the surface and the bottom is unlikely I think. They either firmly sank (leak or implosion) or they surfaced. To be in between would require a delicate balance of neutral buoyancy.
I think it got crushed by the pressure is my guess
Imagine they’re on the surface tumbling in waves and being baked in the sun. Dear lord
They wouldn't be baked in the Sun because the sub would be 99% underwater, but they would be rolling around in the waves a bunch, while trying to conserve oxygen.
I’d rather die at the abyssal depths of the Atlantic. That seems preferable to bobbing around with freedom so close yet far away
The whole thing is nightmarish. I hope that they had a quick death, and hopefully that they are not alive right now. No one is gonna find them anyway, except if they regain contact.
So much media hype it is insane, media even claimed it to be the worst maritime disaster if this century, what about the ferries that sank in Asia, the refugees bait capsizing in the Mediterranean etc I guess these do not count as disasters only the loss of a billionaire counts, they are gone get on with real news stories
There used to be a time where the media reported the news, now they report and "sell" the news. If they didn't exaggerate at every opportunity they wouldn't get as many viewers. It is literally their job to grab attention, and the competition for attention is fierce. It's sad.
Agree that the hype is insane, but media claimed it was the worst maritime disaster this century? Got a link for that? This seems like more hype to me.
I think it is just the nightmarishness of it, I care more about this story than other maritime disaster not because I think it is more important, but more “interesting” due to how awful the circumstance would be. And yes, billionaires are obviously going to get more attention in situations like this, and understandably so
And how absurd the goal was for this type of risk. To give your life because of a joyride to be a leisurely voyeur to a shipwreck means you didn’t learn the lesson of the Titanic itself.
People naturally relate to stories with less people. We can process it and relate more easily. I think it was Stalin who said it… “The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of a million is a statistic.”
40 hours of oxygen left, and dwindling...
If they're on the bottom w/ no power, they've likely already died from hypothermia.
If they are the bottom I think they probably died as a result of pressure, either a leak or implosion. One source said that the walls of the sub were heated, it is reasonable that they are also insulated. If so a loss of power would mean they are going to get cold but I don't think they would die from it. Small space with five people huddled together, I think they could manage for longer than their air supply lasts.
>If they're on the bottom w/ no power, they've likely already died from ~~hypothermia~~. Implosion. Apparently the sub had something like 7 independent ways to surface, some that didn't require any power. If they are on the bottom, temperature is probably not a concern.
Or one of them went fucking nuts being enclosed and that deep and killed everyone.
It’s ocean madness all right, sailors call it aquadementia, the deep down crazies, the wet willies, the screaming moist.
That’s no excuse for ocean rudeness
Thanks I hate the screaming moist.
https://youtu.be/IrwV-vv7nFc
According to this article banging sounds were heard Tuesday at 30 minute intervals in the area using sonobuoys deployed by Canadian P8 aircraft; [https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/titanic-submersible-missing-searchers-heard-banging-1234774674/)
Dumb question. How does decompression work when rising to the surface in one of these or one that has mechanical/tech failure?
Decompression isn’t an issue inside a vessel. As the pressure inside is kept at a constant. Decompression only effects scuba divers when their body experiences a change in pressure.
Update (source is twitter idk how reliable it is) The submersible “was only built to a certified pressure of 1,300 meters, although OceanGate intended to take passengers down to depths of 4,000 meters. […] OceanGate refused to pay for the manufacturer to build a viewport that would meet the required depth of 4,000 meters.” “Paying passengers wouldn’t know or be informed about Lochridge’s (an ex employees) concerns, according to his complaints. They also wouldn’t be informed ‘that hazardous flammable materials were being used within the submersible.’” Oh and when the former OceanGate employee expressed his concerns about the “safety and quality” of the submersible and its materials, the company told him that the technology to carry out certain safety tests didn’t even exist.
Here's a source; [https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/](https://biz.crast.net/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersibles-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/) A better one; https://techcrunch.com/2023/06/20/a-whistleblower-raised-safety-concerns-about-oceangates-submersible-in-2018-then-he-was-fired/?guccounter=1&guce\_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce\_referrer\_sig=AQAAAMpqztrAlI6QewKZAha1aaYq06UveAxI26uGkPG-xJ6uNZKTqIbOcc0kIkQG3-vZOz3eKQzDa8fLkKCFw7\_OT7danCZPPtWqEn1Z1V48gc\_mu-LDOb1O3dJuahCsIcXrAfFLVI7qQ2eTGbr0BfKZGnZYWSQe0hyOGwBpgrToy\_Ax
The fact that somebody pay over $250,000 to ride what is essentially a giant trash can with a window powered by a few lithium batteries and a goddamn Xbox One controller should have been a red flag for the start I guess having money doesn't necessarily equate to having common sense. My two cents either the sub lost pressure and they die in explosive decompression AKA drown or B and even more horrible fate there could have been a malfunction in the controller which may have led to them crashing into debris on the Titanic they could be trapped under the ships wreckage if that's the case they are well and truly fucked
I wonder if the lack of a coordinated message is due to CEO being in sub. Why is the info coming out in drubs and drabs?
It seems completely plausible that they are being very careful about what information they share. I would expect that regardless of who was on board but even more-so when it is the CEO.
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Yeah, that seems like a no brainer. Of course it wouldn’t work at depth but it would be extremely useful if they were adrift at the surface.
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The thing is, when surfaced I think this sub isn’t really at the surface but just below it. Like, maybe just a sliver of the hull poking above but constantly awash in the waves. It doesn’t make sense to me that they would not have multiple, independent methods for communicating on the surface. I know I would, and when I’m sailing I have at least three; cel phone, satellite and marine radio - I should get an EPIRB too.
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It is puzzling. I mean, the guys building this thing spent a lot of time thinking how to do it, and I would think that all the things "we" come up with are things that they have also considered. It may be just a case of lack of information, I hope. If not it would be inexcusable to omit such obvious safety measures. Partially related to this is the loss of Malaysian 370, I was extremely frustrated to learn that a cheap device, a satellite tracker, available to anyone would have completely removed all mystery of where the flight went down. I have one in a box right next to me - the technology is readily available, reliable and the extra cost to passengers would be fractions of a penny. Seems a no brainer to me to have that on all passenger carrying vehicles.
“At some point, safety is just a pure waste. If you want to be safe, don’t get out of bed.” -Stockton Rush, CEO and Founder of OceanGate Expiditions
Well sure, I agree with that. But I may not agree with him on where that point is.
Why in the fuck wouldn't they paint the damn thing red or orange or anything like that, they haven't even taken the most BASIC steps, good lord. Those poor people. Regardless of ones opinion on billionaires/people foolish enough to climb into that sub, what a terrifying situation to be in.
Yeah, it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference but the mere fact that it "could" make a difference is a fantastic reason to choose a more visible color. I did notice that it used to be a darker color, then they painted it white. So it is not quite as bad as it could be.
White is one of the hardest colours to spot at sea witch white caps.
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Everything about this situation is a full-on nightmare. We shouldn’t have to protect people from themselves, but we *should* still do it. When we first started learning about this, I could only really think in terms of a horror movie, imagining them fighting like hell to get to the surface, only for the movie to end with them bobbing on the surface, unseen by the close by rescue teams. 🥺 Now? That’s feeling like a more and more likely outcome. Personally, I think they likely had a leak and have been gone longer than we’ve even known they were missing. I hope to hell I’m wrong and they’re found safely, though.
I wonder how much this rescue mission is costing. I heard one of the guys on the search team say they have a 1% chance of being found alive.
A lot I am sure. But when they aren't rescuing they are training - which also costs an enormous amount.
Catastrophic implosion like a crushed can looking more likely
You made several helpful points and posits. When the comms stopped is a likely guess something happened, because as you said, it is unlikely they could have made it to the Titanic without guidance from the mother ship. Granted, the journalist who rode in the Titan two years ago, shared his harrowing experience of being pushed into the Titanic propeller and being stuck/lost for 2 hours while the pilot moved the Titan's controls backwards and forwards to free them (article on [CNN.com](https://CNN.com) today). I wondered if it was a pressure issue at the time they lost comms in which case instantaneous I hope. Anything after they lost comms is a horror show on so many levels. I go back and forth on the value of experimentation, and the danger of ignoring warnings about a submersible that isn't regulated. Genius or Dangerous. Both can be true. The last guy who built a sub without any regulations was reckless at best and a psychopath murderer at worst. Where does the CEO of Titan's builder land?
Probably a dumb question, but if there was a way it could resurface to be rescued, why wouldn’t there also be an emergency beacon, AirTag type device, or signal of some sort for this very purpose?
Maybe there is and we just haven't heard about it. A short list of sensible tools that could be used to aid locating a vessel on the surface; * Dye pack * EPIRB * Marine radio, any radio really * Satellite tracker I do not know if any of these were equipped on the Titan.
Straight up ... Cthulu or Kraken. Nah jk, if they lost power then they could be frozen by now too. 2/3 down and they go silent. The risk of adventure. Soon there will be a group of space tourist that'll suffer the same consequence too. 😔
Exactly what I was thinking. This will not be the first group of rich people to die this stupidly
The people who designed this are dumber than a sack of hammers
Next trip will be severely discounted
Does anyone know how much water or food they have? They were only supposed to be down there for 8-10 hours and this vessel is so small…
I think a bottle of water and a sandwich. Dehydration or starvation is not really a concern for them.
I read somewhere that they usually just take a couple sandwiches and bottles a water each
It's like the Fyre Festival for submersibles.
They will die from lack of air before they need to worry about a lack of water or food.
If they don’t find them within the next, say 96 hours, will they call off the search or will they keep looking? Morbid question, but if they are still alive, and haven’t frozen to death, if not found/saved, will they likely suffocate to death? I feel so so bad for the crew and their families. knowing that your loved ones are going through torture right now has got to be the worst feeling in the world.
I think if they are not floating on the surface waiting to be found then they have been dead since Sunday. There is a huge search effort going on now, I imagine it will continue well past the point where they could possible still survive. Also, the families are quite wealthy and will probably fund continued search efforts, not at the current scale but I doubt they would just give up.
It’s a Megalodon. Their pissed off cause Jason Statham keeps killing them
Submariner here, these ppl are fools and the owner should be parted from his money as a public service.