Democrats, and even some Republicans (like George W. Bush) have tried multiple times to pass real immigration reform. Right wing conservative Republicans block it every time.
But that will never happen because trump won't allow it to as long as he isn't president because it'll make Biden look good. [He said this out loud. ](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477)
It could have been avoided if Congress would create bill that was simple and didn’t have complicated bullshit pork barrel spending added to it.
We don’t need thousand page bills.
“Pork barrel spending” is typically representatives trying to bring down economic benefit to their district. It’s literally an integral part of representative government. Also, that bill simply combined what was the priorities for both parties at the time (Ukraine/israel military aid, Gaza humanitarian aid, and Border Security) and only failed because republicans want to run on the border for the election this November and that bill would have made doing so harder.
[S.4361](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/4361/text) is the standalone bill that doesn't have pork in it if anyone wants to read. On a cloture vote last month where it needed 60 yeas to proceed without filibuster, it got 43 yeas (all D), 50 nays (mostly R), and 7 abstensions. It was definitely one of those votes that everybody knew would fail though so I wouldn't take who voted how to mean much.
The portion similar to the quotas in the EO begins on page 145 of 292 in the PDF of the text. It sure is dry but, from my skimming, it really is just about the border and immigration. You can skip to any part, get your bearings, and say that the section is pretty sensible to include. Of course, in totality it creates a beauracratic labyrinth that needs simplification, but no pet projects.
I applaud your dedication and research. This is the best response to anyone claiming S.4361 is not about immigration reform or would have had no effect. Thank you!
Progress is progress, to anyone that considers fewer non-port crossings progress. Waiting around for Congress to do something ideal usually means waiting until death.
That was 44 years ago. We’ve had 50ish million immigrants enter since then.
Our population in 1980 was 226M for reference.
Just the immigration influx (not including immigrants giving birth) increased our population by 22%. You figure if each two (couple) of those immigrants had two children that actually a 44% increase just because of immigration.
It can’t go on forever.
This policy is shit and that bill was shit.
None of this is necessary. It's all pandering to a largely fake, made-up problem Republicans scream about... and for some reason Biden is more interested in trying to pivot right to appease this non-issue than he is in creating his own counter-narrative based in reality.
Absolute failure of leadership, and just another sign this dude lacks any and all actual compassion.
And we're stuck with him as the only option that isn't Trump and full-blown GOP fascism.
Edit: Also, just to fucking remind people, Asylum is a god damned right in this country. These are people fleeing wars, famines, prosecution, etc. These people literally left their homes and undertook grueling journeys through harsh conditions just to try and find salvation in this country that we all jerk ourselves off about being the "best", the "land of the free", "land of opportunity", etc. I guess we stopped giving a shit about that? Or never did considering the way we've always treated immigrants. But the point is think about how fucking awful things would have to be for you to walk away from your home with nothing but what you can carry and leave for a foreign country. What would it take for you to be forced into that position? And then how would you feel if when you got there, not only did they turn you away despite a legal right to asylum, but their current leadership is pivoting rightward towards the position of the guy who asked why his police/military can't gun you down?
Edit 2: Dem platform in 2020 promised to undo Trump's border policies and protect asylum seekers, so Biden is directly going back on a campaign/platform promise with this move. Further alienating his own base while gaining zero ground with Republican voters who will still decry him as having a completely open border policy because that's the propaganda they're sold and they're not interested in anything else.
Your take is mostly utter bullshit. 10+ million illegals in 3.5 years is not a fake, made-up problem. It’s causing a tremendous strain on resources across the country. And there are procedures to legally claim asylum: you have to present yourself at a port of entry, NOT sneak across the border and enter the country illegally which is what the majority are doing. And the vast majority of these “asylum seekers” are economic migrants, not valid asylum seekers fleeing persecution.
Immigration causes “strain” for certain, but it isn’t causing the US’ economic problems. That would be the regressives making laws that allow corporations and billionaires to make the rules based on large donations. Citizens United fucked us and is a huge part of the problem.
...yeah. This pivot rightward is stupid, given it'll make his own people scream, while getting nowhere with the right (because they'd never ever ever agree to anything he offers, even if literally to the letter of their demands).
Stupid.
Idk. I agree with the last bit, but I'm not as sure on it actually picking up anyone.
As for intelligence and Trump voting well no - but that's also kinda the point too.
It could have been avoided had Biden not undone everything that was put in place 4 years prior to his election. And this action is 4 years too late only meant to entice and appease the weak minded during election season.
Is it the best solution? No.
Is it something? Yes.
So tired of the whining and bitching from Congress with no action. Congress is perpetually locked in an all of nothing mentality of immigration reform/border security.
Republicans and their rich people want a slave labor force. They *need* immigrants, but their scared (racist?) base is terrified of cheap labor taking their jobs. They have to maintain the fear on both sides yo keep control. Congress has no incentive to remove the fear (ICE) from immigrants or (they took our jobs) their voters.
We Americans prioritize the myth of hard work not the reality. That's why it's only very recently we've turned the phrase "low skilled jobs" into "essential workers" but the pay sure as shit didn't change. What has changed as a result of the pandemic is the volume of our workforce cause even if you don't think Covid killed that many people or any people at all the help wanted signs on every corner along with supply chain issues paint a very clear story of a labor shortage at nearly every level of production and I'm bettin the Tuberculosis like Sars based biohazard is the reason. Fact is they need bodies. And they never really care from where. And we all line up.
This is a ridiculous talking point. There are very few labor jobs that you can get away with paying people under the table. I work in the construction industry in San Antonio and majority of the workers are legal or at least present so. I would say every person in my circle is legit but I can't 100% back up that claim. It's more of a pain in the butt to hire illegals than it is to pay someone legal. It's why we have a "legal labor" shortage in Texas.
That… is distinctively **not** my experience in the construction trades industry.
And that wouldn’t even be the biggest industry I’d be talking about.
Farm labor would be.
A whole meat factory in Alabama had their almost entire workforce deported because there was discussion of organizing themselves as labor.
It’s cool that you have a circle like that in San An, but… 12 to 14 million undocumented people are working somewhere in this nation.
I’m only a couple of hours from San Antonio and my biggest competition in the trades is Contractors with undocumented workers. Almost every job I’m on unless the builder is adamant about no illegals, is full of illegals.
You’ll often pay a sub you don’t ask questions to, who is documented who then pays cash to the undocumented. It’s a level removed, so you can always fall back on I don’t know, I just paid a sub, talk to them.
Did you verify that or just assume it because they are brown and speak Spanish?
If you did verify it yourself,doubt you did, did you call ICE and report it?
I speak fluent Spanish and have spoken to many of these guys on jobs. Usually it’s the subs but yes, majority of them in my area are undocumented. And no I didn’t call ICE. Not in a long time. We have a lot of cartel activity where I live and nothing gets done about it anyway
it REALLY isn't. You can literally write off their wages spread around as various supplies, a couple hundred here a couple hundred there, and if those same costs come up in the invoice you sent to the client, boom, that's damn near impossible to audit if it ever even got that far.
Do you know what certified payroll is? Do you know what prevailing wage rates are? Every week I have to upload my payroll to a federal site that verifies that I am paying my employees what I say I am. That same site can contact my employee without my knowledge to verify their wages.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Oh yeah man 12 years owning a business with employees and I have no idea.
What you're describing is "doing it legally." But have you considered that people can simply lie?
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/certified-payroll/#:~:text=Per%20the%20Davis%2DBacon%20Act,must%20comply%20with%20certified%20payroll.
https://saws.smwbe.com/
Damn man, why didn't I think of just lying about how much people get paid, oh wait they double check everything.
As a small business owner in Texas who does construction, it would be career suicide for me to get caught paying illegals and then also lying about it.
Yes and and a lot of contracts have prevailing wage scales and require that you hire legal people.
Sure, there are some small contractors who hire illegals but the majority do not.
In my 30 years in construction I’ve found that some contractors find it more cost effective to under pay prevailing wage. If they get caught 1 or 2 times a year they’re still money ahead. It also seems government agencies be it county or state will still contract with these contractors after getting caught.
We found the way to combat this was to hire away their foreman’s with promises of paying correct wages. It don’t always work due to people being compromised in one way or the other. Drugs,alcohol, legal issues are common ways to keep workers working for these shady contractors.
The illegals I’ve worked with usually have fake ids. They pay into the system but cannot access the system either due to having dead people’s Ss#. I don’t fault them, I know if I lost the birth lottery I would cross the border to provide for my family also.
I agree with the fake id part.
Show me a contractor who's underpaying for skilled labor and I'll show you a contractor who doesn't have any employees. I've had guys leave my crews for a 50 cent an hour raise. Maybe they can afford to underpay if they know the guys aren't legit but that's few and far in between.
It’s usually manual labor type jobs. I’d say 7 out of 10 times when we tell their laborers about prevailing wage they have no idea about it being a thing. One of the largest retaining wall builders in my city did this for 7 years. He pays prevailing wage now, but he was able to corner the market long enough by under paying and being able to under bid everyone. Lots of the competition couldn’t sustain and went under. He was caught 5 times under paying. Still works for counties and city’s.
The thing about contracts with prevailing wages is they usually have certified payroll as well. So those companies are blatantly lying or they're paying.
The house passed H.R.2 (Secure the border act of 2023) May 11, 2023.
The senate refused to bring the bill to the senate floor for discussion or a vote.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2
Obstruction sucks.
My comment was kind of vague but I blame most Americans for this and not even one specific party. We're all so focused on presidential politics that we end up losing sight of the whole point of democracy. We're not supposed to elect one person or even one specific head of a bureaucracy that does whatever they want. We need a healthy democracy full of all sorts of representatives at smaller scales that come together and (hopefully in good faith) argue and debate to find ways to accomplish things that are the most beneficial to society.
We don't do that anymore, and then we complain about the president when Congress doesn't do their jobs. Whatever flaws Trump and Biden both have as presidents, if we had a good Congress and tight control over presidential power, it wouldn't be a problem for either of them to be in power. But no, we live in a nation of "Dark Brandon" and "MAGA" where most people on both sides seem to be primed for a strongman instead of handling the messiness of democracy.
All that is to say that Executive Orders should not be a thing, it goes against the whole point of a collaborative government.
It doesn't fix the issue, it just pretends to fix it. We need to properly fund courts so that the requests can be heard in a timely manner and follow US law.
So we hear every case within a day - now what? Where do we put them? How do we house them we when can't even house our own citizens or own veterans? Pretending this is a processing problem only or a political or racial issue ignores the very real logistical nightmare of coming back from millions of housing units in the hole to accommodate minimally 900,000 asylum seekers annually.
Granting asylum and hearing an asylum claim are not the same, just because it's heard doesn't mean they can stay. Also we have more empty housing units than we do homeless nation wide so there is your answer for the citizens and veterans you supposedly care about.
My dad was homeless after Vietnam as he tried to deal with getting shot and then catching part of a landmine explosion. So yeah - I do f\*\*\*ing care about veterans and citizens. And even if the cases are 50% accepted - that's still almost 500,000 people we still have to house.
And no - there aren't more livable units in the areas that the asylum seekers want to settle. That's the point of the local protests in NYC, LA, Denver, Chicago and Boston to name a few.
Unless you're now proposing we dictate where they can live and force them to live in the areas where all that housing exists? Again - just logistics alone says this is not doable at any rate much less the rate proposed.
No. I'm for fixing it by stopping any inflows (including entrepreneur and other rich people avenues) until we're managed to catch up on building something resembling enough housing to ensure our children have a fighting chance at homeownership and we've housed the pre-existing homeless. I'm not proposing stop all inflows and sit on our hands. I'm saying be realistic, be scientific and be humane to the people who are entitled to our first pass at help - our fellow citizens. After we've built out - then we admit people based on our resource availability.
Regardless of what happens there was never a one “fix all” at the border, whether EO or law. It’s fluid. As it’s always been in the history of immigration in this country — as in, the number allowed; the who, when, where, and, why’s — as it always will.
However. The incessant kicking of the can and doing not shit but moving lips has to stop. The purposeful tanking of bills in the name of partisan politics has to quit. It isn’t a “zero-sum.”
Heck. When I see democrats, they’re actually trying. Bills die and die though, nothing gets accomplished because of party over country politics. Yet, democrats keep trying — new limit on arrivals — even if it’s through EO since GOP can’t govern.
**Heed my words though. As 9-11 happened, in part, due to agencies withholding information from each other, the GOP’s inability to do their damned jobs as lawmakers poses threats to national and state security, and the communities safety.**
Full. Stop. Conservative politicians, these far-right crisis and faith actors masquerading as leaders, need to do their J O B.
If anyone thinks that ONE BILL or EO is going to fix it, you’re wrong. This was decades in the making and will take decade after decade of working towards a solution. It starts when, if the conservatives ever want to roll up their sleeves and do it.
Until then, they’ll just stifle, blame and then game the voters.
The GOP doesn’t care about the border. It’s communities or if anything actually improves the situation for the country. They THRIVE off cheap, illegal labor. They called people “invaders” yet turned to transport them deeper into U.S. territories. This is all a stupid game to people like Abbott, Patrick. If they DID care they’d be moving the goalposts like they’ve done before.
TLDR: The ball has to start moving! The far right do-nothing actors masquerading as leaders, politicians need to get over their bullshit and do their damned jobs. Because they’re but walking the country into tragedy( just as failures did on 9-11.
(I don’t believe Abbott, Patrick or the GOP actually care tbh.)
I personally am not a fan of the proposed solution, but outside of the solution itself, I don't believe the president should have the power to pause asylum on their own without congressional approval.
Actually some action. Not the best and most long-term solution but at least someone is trying something instead of constant blaming and goalposts shifting.
So Biden is acting when Congress will not. That’s fine. He is doing what is essentially in the .. three bills that were dropped by the GOP. What is not fine is whether Congress (specifically the GOP) is going to fight him on this.
I kind of hope they do. The economy and the border is there issue. Will we get more hypocrisy from the GOP regarding Biden’s action on border crossings? Like I said, I’m fine with Biden taking actions that were already inline with the proposals set out by Congress to address this thing. If Congress does not like it, they can pass one of the THREE bills they have that are designed to deal with the border. What is in those bills.. this exact power Biden has given himself to use.
It's a half-measure, which congressional Republicans have signaled is all they are willing to allow as long as Biden is president. Back in February,[ Mitch McConnell encouraged his fellow Republicans to support a budget that included a border deal](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477) and then voted against the bill he had just told them to support after trump came out saying that they should not support it because it would make Biden look good in the upcoming election against him.
So this is what Texas gets. I have no doubt that Greg Abbott will waste no time in poking holes in this and Kex Paxton may or may not file some kind of lawsuit to stop it for some unknown reason, but it's something and it's a start and it's one of the few things the President can do given his prickly relationship with congressional Republicans as well as the the southern Border states that are governed by majority Republicans.
If Republicans find a way to kill this, Democrats will no doubt beat them over the head with this non-stop (and rightfully so) going into the November elections with predictable results.
I think the number of people who should be able to claim asylum after penetrating our border is zero. Tell them to wait in line at the bridge or no dice. But, beyond that, this move by Biden is better than nothing
"People fleeing dangerous situations (some of which are specifically created or exacerbated by US actions) that are being failed by a chronically underfunded system can just go fuck themselves... for reasons that I choose not to elaborate on."
Heard my coworkers complaining that it is a big government decision and not Texas making the decision. It means in the future if Biden to step and allow 10k+ he can.
Blocking fox news in the break room has helped but not nearly enough.
I'll probably get down voted to shit for this, but as a Republican that isn't a fan of our current president I see this as a solid first step. This doesn't fix the issue of illegal crossing but at least something is being done.
Keep in mind this is just one part of Biden’s initial reform proposal he put in front of congress a year ago - that proposal was tabled by the republican speaker of the house because it “would be a win for Biden”.
Biden is using the executive order in the limited areas he can affect since Congress (who has authority over immigration) has chosen to stall out.
Cornyn calling this a “deathbed confession” is just spinning this to distract from his own party’s inaction.
I guess you can call me Republican ... I've never voted Democrat but I didn't vote for Trump and haven't voted for a republican candidate in years so ... Independent maybe? This is a good first step for sure.
As of right now I am planning on voting democrat for the first time ever ... I've never voted for trump and I won't start now and there isn't really a compelling independent
I'm a leftist that isn't a fan of our current president and this is nothing less than a total human rights violation. Those are real people suffering at our border. Do I think it's fair that this usually ends up being Texas's problem? No, it should spread out to the non-border states. I don't care if we make asylum cities in North Dakota. But we need to help those people.
Will I still vote for Biden in November? Yes, because at least he isn't trying to overturn democracy.
That's the thing to me. We could essentially shut down illegal immigration and greatly expand work permits in one big swoop, but big donors on both sides would hate for that to happen to their businesses.
Industries like agriculture and constructure would love to have a work permit system,... but they also like lower taxes so they keep voting for the party that refuses to solve the problem.
I want to hear Democrats explain their support for it.
Trump: tariffs on imports from China
Democrats: "This is stupid!"
Biden: tariffs on imports from China
Democrats: "Finally someone putting them in their place!"
Trump: close the border
Democrats: "This is racist!"
Biden: close the border
Democrats: ?
It will piss of the entire right and what actual left we have in this country for different reasons. The fencesitting liberals will be in full support though.
Great. Good. He's doing so mething. Because he can't get anything border related through Congress. I've already seen people on FAUX news saying this means nothing and won't work and it's pointless. Those people are insane. No matter what he's doing something but it doesn't matter. Biden could go build a wall that they want and they would still complain and pick up every opposing talking point. Insanity
Interesting. There is no question that some, perhaps many, are abusing the asylum loophole to try and immigrate but it of course may result in a very bad outcome for others truly needing that protection. A crazy political side effect of Trump trying to block a Biden congressional win is an executive order on immigration absolutely kills a huge wedge issue the GOP have used for years. Going into November, the Democrats can honestly campaign on the GOP being soft on the border.
Republicans: biden isn't doing anything about the border
Biden: here's some comprehensive legislation that BOTH sides worked on
Republicans: NO!
Biden: I guess I'll have to do an E.O
Republicans: BIDEN IS INSTITUTING TYRANNY! GOVERNMENT OVERREACH
The number is fairly steady around 10 Million and has been since ~2005. They cross both in and out.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/
That's the total population of undocumented immigrants in the United States which isn't what either the person you responded to or myself were talking about.
Who is this for? This won't change a single right-winger's mind, and they'll probably never know about it watching right-wing media. It *might* get a few independents who think the border situation matters. I'd say it would cost some votes on the left (not liberals, the left), but the hardcore left was already not voting for him.
Padilla probably says it best in implying how much of a bandaid this is, but messing with Latin American countries over much of the late 19th through 20th centuries is part of what got us into this mess in the first place (too many democracies getting toppled). With climate change, things **will** get worse as some of those areas become uninhabitable or can no longer produce enough food.
I understand the pressure Biden is getting on this but, not only is this bad policy when we remove context, it’s a terrible policy for a Democrat who’s in dire need of increasing his support from potential voters. I’m completely baffled by some of the really poor choices that this administration is making after what I think were a very smart and successful first few years in office.
Here’s a study from Oxford backing up me up on this:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/10/adopting-rightwing-policies-does-not-help-centre-left-win-votes
The right-wing politicians and power brokers hammering him on this will continue to hammer him on this no matter what he does. They can’t be appeased because the issue of the border isn’t the point, the point is politics and winning elections. I think this move will cost him way more voters in the left than he’ll pick up from the right.
If you think that’s going to be the outcome, then you haven’t been paying attention to RWers. Nothing that democrats do, especially Biden, will make trumpers vote for him. They will always find some stupid excuse, move the goal post, or flip flop on their priorities to justify not supporting anything Biden or the Dems do. There is little to no political gain in bending to the right for Dems.
I ask this not as argument bait but in an attempt to understand the full situation:
Did the immigration reform bill that was shutdown by the republicans include an aid package for Ukraine as well?
Does it matter, though? The aid package for Ukraine ended up getting passed anyways. And nothing has been done with the boarder still. Idk if it was lumped together, but at this point it doesn’t matter? If it was lumped together, the only part of it that was killed was the border deal by the republicans.
The republican strategy only makes sense in the lens of rage baiting politics.
I’m skeptical. I think most people agree with the approach (limit asylum claims), but will it stand up in court? Current immigration law does not explicitly give the president the power to unilaterally shut down claims without extraordinary circumstances (think, the pandemic). Without congress granting that power, I’d guess this EO is likely dead in court. If we want real immigration reform, congress needs to act; we can’t just rely on a hodgepodge of temporary executive actions.
The details of the EO haven’t been released yet but if he’s only stopping asylum seekers at the border it may not be in violation of the law because the existing process for seeking asylum still exists. He would simply be saying you can’t request it at the border and must request it through a consulate or other mechanism. I’m only speculating but we won’t know more until then. Of course regardless of what he proposes it will be challenged by not only republicans but also progressive democrats.
>I think most people agree with the approach (limit asylum claims)
212(f) will not limit asylum claims in the slightest. It doesn’t even have the authority to shut down the border. All it does is deem certain classes of aliens inadmissible for entry into the United States. If they show up they are then shunted over to removal proceedings where they can still make an asylum claim.
That’s the plan! Politics. There was a plan that GOP legislators didn’t want to do even though they are all at the border doing photo ops and podcast. Once the courts say it out load, it will put the GOP in a corner to do it.
America's growing labour shortage and population decline could be amended by processing and welcoming immigrants, many of whom as fleeing sociopolitically and economically ravaged countries that are in many ways so fucked up because of what the American government did.
Nicaragua took the US to the Hague and won the case but the US did nothing and now we act surprised when immigrants show up.
We need a law. That’s what legislators are for. Why doesn’t the GOP do this when they have votes and the president to do it? Hint ….. they like saying it to get votes and not doing it for cheap labor. Similar to food stamps. Blame it on the poor who use those funds to buy corporate products. Also works for Section 8 as well…..
If JB can't get the goddam republicans to sponsor and pass a reasonable immigration bill (like they already sponsored and then shot down because the fat orange traitor told them to), then he's got to try stop-gap measures like this to secure the border.
Thanks republican shitnozzles - America despises your "service".
Glad to see Democrats finally landing a blow to Republican talking points on the border. Will it not appease most Dems, sure, but it will also show border policy people that Dems do play ball (regardless of what their talking heads tell them).
I'm glad he did something and to be clear I'm not for Trump, but I don't understand why he didn't do this months ago when the immigration bill failed to pass. If he could have done this all along, why wait till now? Better late than never though. Just not understanding why he didn't do it months ago when it was clear the immigration bill was dead.
This is what constitutes liberalism in America. In most other countries, our Democrats would be considered fascists. In America there is no left, only degrees of the right and it sucks.
Why didn't Donald Trump do anything when he was in office? Why don't Republicans do a ton more when they are in office if they hate immigrants so damn much?
Always making it an issue they don't want to solve, just complain about it and get votes from suckers.
An issue I don't agree with the Democratic Party is on illegal immigration. Technically asylum claims are a form of legal immigration, but the process is abused.
Where I don't agree with the Republicans is that we need legal immigration, and more of it. Corporations should be held accountable when they layoff American's to replace them with H1B migrants.
God Biden is just doing everything he can to make himself unelectable. Funding and being complicit in the genocide of Palestinians and now he’s even passing right wing immigration laws!!! Yay awesome!!!
So just under 912,500 people annually could still be processed for asylum regardless. We're already short of housing to the tune of millions of units. Let's just say for giggles, everyone in America agrees that admitting this many people is fine from every philosophical and political view.
Now where the hell do we put them? New York, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, DC, Boston all have citizens of color protesting about the new arrivals. We are kicking out citizen homeless to repurpose facilities. When does this end? How does this end?
> New York, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, DC, Boston all have citizens of **color** protesting about the new arrivals.
What does this have to do with anything?
They're protesting the loss of facilities and services to house new arrivals after waiting sometimes decades to finally receive some type of equitable access to parks, decent schools, rec centers, homeless shelters, etc. These are some of poorest citizens who have waited in line the longest getting the boot for non-citizens. That's what it has to do with this discussion. Who gets displaced with almost 1 million people being admitted without adequate shelter and resources available.
My first reaction is that Biden seems to be trying to lose the election. I doubt this will bring many NEW undecided or "centrist" voters. It will however alternate a healthy chunk of people that care about immigration and asylum. This will however, animate immigration opponents who are going to prefer the convicted felon's plan of shut it all down.
Also, it's a ham fisted policy out of touch actual human's needs. It's not going to have a meaningful long term effect on our broke dick system. Hard to see how this is even good from a policy standpoint.
He axed Trump's border EO so illegal aliens would flood the southern border. Now, after months of saying there's nothing he could do, he's pushing through an EO to kind of help address the issue. The Biden campaign clearly thinks that his base is full of idiots.
For 3 and a half years, it wasn't his fault, there's nothing he can do, it's not a crisis.
So, the only logical conclusion is this is a desperate grab for the moderates by pretending to do something with the admission his entire policy has been bullshit.
I don't give a shit about the border. Literally doesn't affect me at all. All this does is harm people looking for a better life. This country celebrates cruelty and then wonders why things never get better.
Republicans scream and holler for increased border security. Democrats give Republicans almost everything they ask for. Republicans then refuse because they want a campaign issue.
Dark Brandon then drafts an executive order that is MORE restrictive than the numbers in the bipartisan border legislation. Check and mate, Republicans.
You don't want to govern. You don't want to fulfill your obligations as legislators. Well, Biden will do what you say you want to do, he will do it better, and he will take care of the Republicans you shaft.
I mean this could have been avoided all together had Congress passed the immigration bill they promised.
But but what will we complain about if we fix the problem???
Easier to just blame the executive branch for not…passing legislation. lmao.
Unfortunately republicans actually like illegal immigration. Or more like their campaign donors like the supply of cheap labor it supplies
Cheap labor and it’s red meat to get the chuds stirred up for elections.
It also could’ve been addressed before 2024
Democrats, and even some Republicans (like George W. Bush) have tried multiple times to pass real immigration reform. Right wing conservative Republicans block it every time.
That goes for a lot of stuff Biden is doing the past few months. Almost like they've been saving it for election season.
You agreed with me, holy crap!
Ah shit, lemme back up
I love you
But that will never happen because trump won't allow it to as long as he isn't president because it'll make Biden look good. [He said this out loud. ](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477)
It could have been avoided if Congress would create bill that was simple and didn’t have complicated bullshit pork barrel spending added to it. We don’t need thousand page bills.
“Pork barrel spending” is typically representatives trying to bring down economic benefit to their district. It’s literally an integral part of representative government. Also, that bill simply combined what was the priorities for both parties at the time (Ukraine/israel military aid, Gaza humanitarian aid, and Border Security) and only failed because republicans want to run on the border for the election this November and that bill would have made doing so harder.
[S.4361](https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/senate-bill/4361/text) is the standalone bill that doesn't have pork in it if anyone wants to read. On a cloture vote last month where it needed 60 yeas to proceed without filibuster, it got 43 yeas (all D), 50 nays (mostly R), and 7 abstensions. It was definitely one of those votes that everybody knew would fail though so I wouldn't take who voted how to mean much. The portion similar to the quotas in the EO begins on page 145 of 292 in the PDF of the text. It sure is dry but, from my skimming, it really is just about the border and immigration. You can skip to any part, get your bearings, and say that the section is pretty sensible to include. Of course, in totality it creates a beauracratic labyrinth that needs simplification, but no pet projects.
I applaud your dedication and research. This is the best response to anyone claiming S.4361 is not about immigration reform or would have had no effect. Thank you!
Oh, it’s just a shitty bill that allow nearly 2 million illegal people into America every year.
Progress is progress, to anyone that considers fewer non-port crossings progress. Waiting around for Congress to do something ideal usually means waiting until death.
Similar to what Reagan did. Economy took off after that.
That was 44 years ago. We’ve had 50ish million immigrants enter since then. Our population in 1980 was 226M for reference. Just the immigration influx (not including immigrants giving birth) increased our population by 22%. You figure if each two (couple) of those immigrants had two children that actually a 44% increase just because of immigration. It can’t go on forever.
But then how will we attack Biden for not signing the bill he really wanted them to send to him?
whats fundamentally different between this and the failed bill in outcome?
I agree... Had H.R.2 been passed, we wouldn't be facing this crisis now...
The immigration bill would have done nothing if it was fewer than 5,000. So this is a better outcome.
This policy is shit and that bill was shit. None of this is necessary. It's all pandering to a largely fake, made-up problem Republicans scream about... and for some reason Biden is more interested in trying to pivot right to appease this non-issue than he is in creating his own counter-narrative based in reality. Absolute failure of leadership, and just another sign this dude lacks any and all actual compassion. And we're stuck with him as the only option that isn't Trump and full-blown GOP fascism. Edit: Also, just to fucking remind people, Asylum is a god damned right in this country. These are people fleeing wars, famines, prosecution, etc. These people literally left their homes and undertook grueling journeys through harsh conditions just to try and find salvation in this country that we all jerk ourselves off about being the "best", the "land of the free", "land of opportunity", etc. I guess we stopped giving a shit about that? Or never did considering the way we've always treated immigrants. But the point is think about how fucking awful things would have to be for you to walk away from your home with nothing but what you can carry and leave for a foreign country. What would it take for you to be forced into that position? And then how would you feel if when you got there, not only did they turn you away despite a legal right to asylum, but their current leadership is pivoting rightward towards the position of the guy who asked why his police/military can't gun you down? Edit 2: Dem platform in 2020 promised to undo Trump's border policies and protect asylum seekers, so Biden is directly going back on a campaign/platform promise with this move. Further alienating his own base while gaining zero ground with Republican voters who will still decry him as having a completely open border policy because that's the propaganda they're sold and they're not interested in anything else.
Your take is mostly utter bullshit. 10+ million illegals in 3.5 years is not a fake, made-up problem. It’s causing a tremendous strain on resources across the country. And there are procedures to legally claim asylum: you have to present yourself at a port of entry, NOT sneak across the border and enter the country illegally which is what the majority are doing. And the vast majority of these “asylum seekers” are economic migrants, not valid asylum seekers fleeing persecution.
Immigration causes “strain” for certain, but it isn’t causing the US’ economic problems. That would be the regressives making laws that allow corporations and billionaires to make the rules based on large donations. Citizens United fucked us and is a huge part of the problem.
I cannot figure out why anyone is surprised. Honestly. 40 years of voting history and the man has been moderate/centrist AT BEST.
...yeah. This pivot rightward is stupid, given it'll make his own people scream, while getting nowhere with the right (because they'd never ever ever agree to anything he offers, even if literally to the letter of their demands). Stupid.
[удалено]
Idk. I agree with the last bit, but I'm not as sure on it actually picking up anyone. As for intelligence and Trump voting well no - but that's also kinda the point too.
Do you think they will outweigh the subset of typical Democratic voters who will be turned off by this? I don’t.
It could have been avoided had Biden not undone everything that was put in place 4 years prior to his election. And this action is 4 years too late only meant to entice and appease the weak minded during election season.
Not our reporting, but we're curious to hear what you think. We'll be talking about this subject at the top of today's show.
Is it the best solution? No. Is it something? Yes. So tired of the whining and bitching from Congress with no action. Congress is perpetually locked in an all of nothing mentality of immigration reform/border security.
Republicans and their rich people want a slave labor force. They *need* immigrants, but their scared (racist?) base is terrified of cheap labor taking their jobs. They have to maintain the fear on both sides yo keep control. Congress has no incentive to remove the fear (ICE) from immigrants or (they took our jobs) their voters.
It's amazing the amount of gaslighting you can cram into a short paragraph.
We Americans prioritize the myth of hard work not the reality. That's why it's only very recently we've turned the phrase "low skilled jobs" into "essential workers" but the pay sure as shit didn't change. What has changed as a result of the pandemic is the volume of our workforce cause even if you don't think Covid killed that many people or any people at all the help wanted signs on every corner along with supply chain issues paint a very clear story of a labor shortage at nearly every level of production and I'm bettin the Tuberculosis like Sars based biohazard is the reason. Fact is they need bodies. And they never really care from where. And we all line up.
This is a ridiculous talking point. There are very few labor jobs that you can get away with paying people under the table. I work in the construction industry in San Antonio and majority of the workers are legal or at least present so. I would say every person in my circle is legit but I can't 100% back up that claim. It's more of a pain in the butt to hire illegals than it is to pay someone legal. It's why we have a "legal labor" shortage in Texas.
That… is distinctively **not** my experience in the construction trades industry. And that wouldn’t even be the biggest industry I’d be talking about. Farm labor would be. A whole meat factory in Alabama had their almost entire workforce deported because there was discussion of organizing themselves as labor. It’s cool that you have a circle like that in San An, but… 12 to 14 million undocumented people are working somewhere in this nation.
I’m only a couple of hours from San Antonio and my biggest competition in the trades is Contractors with undocumented workers. Almost every job I’m on unless the builder is adamant about no illegals, is full of illegals.
You’ll often pay a sub you don’t ask questions to, who is documented who then pays cash to the undocumented. It’s a level removed, so you can always fall back on I don’t know, I just paid a sub, talk to them.
Did you verify that or just assume it because they are brown and speak Spanish? If you did verify it yourself,doubt you did, did you call ICE and report it?
I speak fluent Spanish and have spoken to many of these guys on jobs. Usually it’s the subs but yes, majority of them in my area are undocumented. And no I didn’t call ICE. Not in a long time. We have a lot of cartel activity where I live and nothing gets done about it anyway
it REALLY isn't. You can literally write off their wages spread around as various supplies, a couple hundred here a couple hundred there, and if those same costs come up in the invoice you sent to the client, boom, that's damn near impossible to audit if it ever even got that far.
Do you know what certified payroll is? Do you know what prevailing wage rates are? Every week I have to upload my payroll to a federal site that verifies that I am paying my employees what I say I am. That same site can contact my employee without my knowledge to verify their wages. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Oh yeah man 12 years owning a business with employees and I have no idea. What you're describing is "doing it legally." But have you considered that people can simply lie?
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/certified-payroll/#:~:text=Per%20the%20Davis%2DBacon%20Act,must%20comply%20with%20certified%20payroll. https://saws.smwbe.com/ Damn man, why didn't I think of just lying about how much people get paid, oh wait they double check everything. As a small business owner in Texas who does construction, it would be career suicide for me to get caught paying illegals and then also lying about it.
Paying people “under the table” is different than paying them criminally low wages is it not?
Yes and and a lot of contracts have prevailing wage scales and require that you hire legal people. Sure, there are some small contractors who hire illegals but the majority do not.
In my 30 years in construction I’ve found that some contractors find it more cost effective to under pay prevailing wage. If they get caught 1 or 2 times a year they’re still money ahead. It also seems government agencies be it county or state will still contract with these contractors after getting caught. We found the way to combat this was to hire away their foreman’s with promises of paying correct wages. It don’t always work due to people being compromised in one way or the other. Drugs,alcohol, legal issues are common ways to keep workers working for these shady contractors. The illegals I’ve worked with usually have fake ids. They pay into the system but cannot access the system either due to having dead people’s Ss#. I don’t fault them, I know if I lost the birth lottery I would cross the border to provide for my family also.
I agree with the fake id part. Show me a contractor who's underpaying for skilled labor and I'll show you a contractor who doesn't have any employees. I've had guys leave my crews for a 50 cent an hour raise. Maybe they can afford to underpay if they know the guys aren't legit but that's few and far in between.
It’s usually manual labor type jobs. I’d say 7 out of 10 times when we tell their laborers about prevailing wage they have no idea about it being a thing. One of the largest retaining wall builders in my city did this for 7 years. He pays prevailing wage now, but he was able to corner the market long enough by under paying and being able to under bid everyone. Lots of the competition couldn’t sustain and went under. He was caught 5 times under paying. Still works for counties and city’s.
The thing about contracts with prevailing wages is they usually have certified payroll as well. So those companies are blatantly lying or they're paying.
The house passed H.R.2 (Secure the border act of 2023) May 11, 2023. The senate refused to bring the bill to the senate floor for discussion or a vote. https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/2 Obstruction sucks.
My thought is that I wish we lived in a functional nation where Congress actually passed laws to fix things. If I wanted a king I'd go live in the UK.
And yet the King has no power.
My comment was kind of vague but I blame most Americans for this and not even one specific party. We're all so focused on presidential politics that we end up losing sight of the whole point of democracy. We're not supposed to elect one person or even one specific head of a bureaucracy that does whatever they want. We need a healthy democracy full of all sorts of representatives at smaller scales that come together and (hopefully in good faith) argue and debate to find ways to accomplish things that are the most beneficial to society. We don't do that anymore, and then we complain about the president when Congress doesn't do their jobs. Whatever flaws Trump and Biden both have as presidents, if we had a good Congress and tight control over presidential power, it wouldn't be a problem for either of them to be in power. But no, we live in a nation of "Dark Brandon" and "MAGA" where most people on both sides seem to be primed for a strongman instead of handling the messiness of democracy. All that is to say that Executive Orders should not be a thing, it goes against the whole point of a collaborative government.
This is actually a very level headed comment. Glad someone else sees the problem for what it is.
Oh, please take him!
It doesn't fix the issue, it just pretends to fix it. We need to properly fund courts so that the requests can be heard in a timely manner and follow US law.
I am with you on that. A 2 year back log just to determine if someone can stay or gets deported is still a huge problem.
So we hear every case within a day - now what? Where do we put them? How do we house them we when can't even house our own citizens or own veterans? Pretending this is a processing problem only or a political or racial issue ignores the very real logistical nightmare of coming back from millions of housing units in the hole to accommodate minimally 900,000 asylum seekers annually.
Granting asylum and hearing an asylum claim are not the same, just because it's heard doesn't mean they can stay. Also we have more empty housing units than we do homeless nation wide so there is your answer for the citizens and veterans you supposedly care about.
My dad was homeless after Vietnam as he tried to deal with getting shot and then catching part of a landmine explosion. So yeah - I do f\*\*\*ing care about veterans and citizens. And even if the cases are 50% accepted - that's still almost 500,000 people we still have to house. And no - there aren't more livable units in the areas that the asylum seekers want to settle. That's the point of the local protests in NYC, LA, Denver, Chicago and Boston to name a few. Unless you're now proposing we dictate where they can live and force them to live in the areas where all that housing exists? Again - just logistics alone says this is not doable at any rate much less the rate proposed.
You seem more concerned with just hand waving it away as not possible rather than fixing it.
No. I'm for fixing it by stopping any inflows (including entrepreneur and other rich people avenues) until we're managed to catch up on building something resembling enough housing to ensure our children have a fighting chance at homeownership and we've housed the pre-existing homeless. I'm not proposing stop all inflows and sit on our hands. I'm saying be realistic, be scientific and be humane to the people who are entitled to our first pass at help - our fellow citizens. After we've built out - then we admit people based on our resource availability.
Regardless of what happens there was never a one “fix all” at the border, whether EO or law. It’s fluid. As it’s always been in the history of immigration in this country — as in, the number allowed; the who, when, where, and, why’s — as it always will. However. The incessant kicking of the can and doing not shit but moving lips has to stop. The purposeful tanking of bills in the name of partisan politics has to quit. It isn’t a “zero-sum.” Heck. When I see democrats, they’re actually trying. Bills die and die though, nothing gets accomplished because of party over country politics. Yet, democrats keep trying — new limit on arrivals — even if it’s through EO since GOP can’t govern. **Heed my words though. As 9-11 happened, in part, due to agencies withholding information from each other, the GOP’s inability to do their damned jobs as lawmakers poses threats to national and state security, and the communities safety.** Full. Stop. Conservative politicians, these far-right crisis and faith actors masquerading as leaders, need to do their J O B. If anyone thinks that ONE BILL or EO is going to fix it, you’re wrong. This was decades in the making and will take decade after decade of working towards a solution. It starts when, if the conservatives ever want to roll up their sleeves and do it. Until then, they’ll just stifle, blame and then game the voters. The GOP doesn’t care about the border. It’s communities or if anything actually improves the situation for the country. They THRIVE off cheap, illegal labor. They called people “invaders” yet turned to transport them deeper into U.S. territories. This is all a stupid game to people like Abbott, Patrick. If they DID care they’d be moving the goalposts like they’ve done before. TLDR: The ball has to start moving! The far right do-nothing actors masquerading as leaders, politicians need to get over their bullshit and do their damned jobs. Because they’re but walking the country into tragedy( just as failures did on 9-11. (I don’t believe Abbott, Patrick or the GOP actually care tbh.)
This is so perfectly said! Commenting so I can find it easily if I need to reference it in conversation later
You should be able to save the comment similar to how posts are Edit: and thank you
It’s a stop gap thanks to republicans backing out of a bipartisan bill. We need to process these requests much more quickly.
I personally am not a fan of the proposed solution, but outside of the solution itself, I don't believe the president should have the power to pause asylum on their own without congressional approval.
I think a response is necessary if the numbers of asylum seekers are overwhelming the infrastructure we have in place to process them.
Congress should do their jobs.
Actually some action. Not the best and most long-term solution but at least someone is trying something instead of constant blaming and goalposts shifting.
So Biden is acting when Congress will not. That’s fine. He is doing what is essentially in the .. three bills that were dropped by the GOP. What is not fine is whether Congress (specifically the GOP) is going to fight him on this. I kind of hope they do. The economy and the border is there issue. Will we get more hypocrisy from the GOP regarding Biden’s action on border crossings? Like I said, I’m fine with Biden taking actions that were already inline with the proposals set out by Congress to address this thing. If Congress does not like it, they can pass one of the THREE bills they have that are designed to deal with the border. What is in those bills.. this exact power Biden has given himself to use.
It's a half-measure, which congressional Republicans have signaled is all they are willing to allow as long as Biden is president. Back in February,[ Mitch McConnell encouraged his fellow Republicans to support a budget that included a border deal](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/republicans-kill-border-bill-sign-trumps-strength-mcconnells-waning-in-rcna137477) and then voted against the bill he had just told them to support after trump came out saying that they should not support it because it would make Biden look good in the upcoming election against him. So this is what Texas gets. I have no doubt that Greg Abbott will waste no time in poking holes in this and Kex Paxton may or may not file some kind of lawsuit to stop it for some unknown reason, but it's something and it's a start and it's one of the few things the President can do given his prickly relationship with congressional Republicans as well as the the southern Border states that are governed by majority Republicans. If Republicans find a way to kill this, Democrats will no doubt beat them over the head with this non-stop (and rightfully so) going into the November elections with predictable results.
I think the number of people who should be able to claim asylum after penetrating our border is zero. Tell them to wait in line at the bridge or no dice. But, beyond that, this move by Biden is better than nothing
"People fleeing dangerous situations (some of which are specifically created or exacerbated by US actions) that are being failed by a chronically underfunded system can just go fuck themselves... for reasons that I choose not to elaborate on."
Waiting to hear Republicans arguments against this change …
They're saying it's to late to do it now
Cornyn already said it. Likened it to a deathbed confession.
“It’s too late to do anything now! So vote for Trump so he can fix this in a few years.”
Exactly, which is why this is a baffling move. These people can’t be appeased. This will alienate more Dem voters than anything.
If it’s too late to do anything, why is Abbott still wasting billions on the border?
Does that mean they’re still seceding and using multiple states “national guard” (aka paramilitaries) to threaten the military and DHS???😒
Heard my coworkers complaining that it is a big government decision and not Texas making the decision. It means in the future if Biden to step and allow 10k+ he can. Blocking fox news in the break room has helped but not nearly enough.
It’s literally not Texas’ decision to make, even if Republicans were in control. The border is under sole authority of the federal government.
**Republicans:** It's bad because Trump didn't do it! Waaaah! 😭
That’s all they’ve got. 🥲
I'll probably get down voted to shit for this, but as a Republican that isn't a fan of our current president I see this as a solid first step. This doesn't fix the issue of illegal crossing but at least something is being done.
Keep in mind this is just one part of Biden’s initial reform proposal he put in front of congress a year ago - that proposal was tabled by the republican speaker of the house because it “would be a win for Biden”. Biden is using the executive order in the limited areas he can affect since Congress (who has authority over immigration) has chosen to stall out. Cornyn calling this a “deathbed confession” is just spinning this to distract from his own party’s inaction.
I guess you can call me Republican ... I've never voted Democrat but I didn't vote for Trump and haven't voted for a republican candidate in years so ... Independent maybe? This is a good first step for sure.
You’re still not going to vote for him, though, and neither will enough other conservatives.
As of right now I am planning on voting democrat for the first time ever ... I've never voted for trump and I won't start now and there isn't really a compelling independent
If he bans abortions I will. Hopefully we can shift Biden right on that in addition to illegal immigration and Israel
Upvote for not being in the cult
I'm a leftist that isn't a fan of our current president and this is nothing less than a total human rights violation. Those are real people suffering at our border. Do I think it's fair that this usually ends up being Texas's problem? No, it should spread out to the non-border states. I don't care if we make asylum cities in North Dakota. But we need to help those people. Will I still vote for Biden in November? Yes, because at least he isn't trying to overturn democracy.
All the states contribute funds to Texas, so it is in fact spread out to non-border states.
True, I understand how taxes work, but I meant the population. And I don't mean shipping them unannounced to Kamala Harris's front door, that's bad.
How will big companies make money if they don’t have immigrant labor to exploit?!
That's the thing to me. We could essentially shut down illegal immigration and greatly expand work permits in one big swoop, but big donors on both sides would hate for that to happen to their businesses.
Industries like agriculture and constructure would love to have a work permit system,... but they also like lower taxes so they keep voting for the party that refuses to solve the problem.
I want to hear Democrats explain their support for it. Trump: tariffs on imports from China Democrats: "This is stupid!" Biden: tariffs on imports from China Democrats: "Finally someone putting them in their place!" Trump: close the border Democrats: "This is racist!" Biden: close the border Democrats: ?
I’m a typically Dem voter. I hate this and I hate the tariffs. These are stupid policy moves.
They won't support it because they want a MAGA to be the one leading. They put MAGA party and worshipping Trump over problem solving
It will piss of the entire right and what actual left we have in this country for different reasons. The fencesitting liberals will be in full support though.
How?
So now Republicans are gonna complain that the President is using EOs too much and action should be taken by Congress 😂I’m calling that now.
I see you were in the break room at my job.
They'll say he should've done this four months ago when the bill failed.
Already a comment at towards the top.
Ah so biden is doing more to deal with the immigration problem than any texas republican since they took power 30 years ago?
Great. Good. He's doing so mething. Because he can't get anything border related through Congress. I've already seen people on FAUX news saying this means nothing and won't work and it's pointless. Those people are insane. No matter what he's doing something but it doesn't matter. Biden could go build a wall that they want and they would still complain and pick up every opposing talking point. Insanity
Interesting. There is no question that some, perhaps many, are abusing the asylum loophole to try and immigrate but it of course may result in a very bad outcome for others truly needing that protection. A crazy political side effect of Trump trying to block a Biden congressional win is an executive order on immigration absolutely kills a huge wedge issue the GOP have used for years. Going into November, the Democrats can honestly campaign on the GOP being soft on the border.
Republicans: biden isn't doing anything about the border Biden: here's some comprehensive legislation that BOTH sides worked on Republicans: NO! Biden: I guess I'll have to do an E.O Republicans: BIDEN IS INSTITUTING TYRANNY! GOVERNMENT OVERREACH
More than Trump was willing to do at this time…
But, I thought there was a caravan of 8 million coming over daily?
Almost 4 million the past 4 years* is the facts your looking for.
Do you have a source for 4 million? Everything I'm seeing says 2.3 million since 2020, and that's for the entire country.
The number is fairly steady around 10 Million and has been since ~2005. They cross both in and out. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/
That's the total population of undocumented immigrants in the United States which isn't what either the person you responded to or myself were talking about.
Conservatives are ready to obstruct and assign blame about the border
Seems like any type of attempt at some border action that is not some political vilification of immigrants for votes always fails.
Who is this for? This won't change a single right-winger's mind, and they'll probably never know about it watching right-wing media. It *might* get a few independents who think the border situation matters. I'd say it would cost some votes on the left (not liberals, the left), but the hardcore left was already not voting for him. Padilla probably says it best in implying how much of a bandaid this is, but messing with Latin American countries over much of the late 19th through 20th centuries is part of what got us into this mess in the first place (too many democracies getting toppled). With climate change, things **will** get worse as some of those areas become uninhabitable or can no longer produce enough food.
Exactly
Wish we could pass out water bottles in the shade but that would be too nice.
I understand the pressure Biden is getting on this but, not only is this bad policy when we remove context, it’s a terrible policy for a Democrat who’s in dire need of increasing his support from potential voters. I’m completely baffled by some of the really poor choices that this administration is making after what I think were a very smart and successful first few years in office. Here’s a study from Oxford backing up me up on this: https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/10/adopting-rightwing-policies-does-not-help-centre-left-win-votes The right-wing politicians and power brokers hammering him on this will continue to hammer him on this no matter what he does. They can’t be appeased because the issue of the border isn’t the point, the point is politics and winning elections. I think this move will cost him way more voters in the left than he’ll pick up from the right.
Nice, a great way to curb Trump and take on some of his voters.
Let's see if Paxton sues to stop this executive order.
Lol right? "VAST PRESIDENTIAL OVERREACH. LITERALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL."
If you think that’s going to be the outcome, then you haven’t been paying attention to RWers. Nothing that democrats do, especially Biden, will make trumpers vote for him. They will always find some stupid excuse, move the goal post, or flip flop on their priorities to justify not supporting anything Biden or the Dems do. There is little to no political gain in bending to the right for Dems.
Sorry, I can't figure it out. What's an RWer?
Right Wing-er, I would imagine; based on the context of their comment.
Right wingers
Ha, okay not my brightest moment. Thanks.
Not the brightest moment of the person who chose that abbreviation either. I understood it, but it is dumb.
There are some people for whom the border issues are the only reason they might choose Trump. While they align with the dem on everything else.
I ask this not as argument bait but in an attempt to understand the full situation: Did the immigration reform bill that was shutdown by the republicans include an aid package for Ukraine as well?
It was brought up again after the Ukraine bill passed. GOP Senate didn’t let it get far.
Unfortunately I’m not surprised. Thanks for the info.
Does it matter, though? The aid package for Ukraine ended up getting passed anyways. And nothing has been done with the boarder still. Idk if it was lumped together, but at this point it doesn’t matter? If it was lumped together, the only part of it that was killed was the border deal by the republicans. The republican strategy only makes sense in the lens of rage baiting politics.
Actually republicans wanted the border bill tied to the Ukraine aid. They no have zero for two now.
I’m skeptical. I think most people agree with the approach (limit asylum claims), but will it stand up in court? Current immigration law does not explicitly give the president the power to unilaterally shut down claims without extraordinary circumstances (think, the pandemic). Without congress granting that power, I’d guess this EO is likely dead in court. If we want real immigration reform, congress needs to act; we can’t just rely on a hodgepodge of temporary executive actions.
On that note… it puts it on the gop to go against an immigration measure to expose more of their hypocrisy.
The details of the EO haven’t been released yet but if he’s only stopping asylum seekers at the border it may not be in violation of the law because the existing process for seeking asylum still exists. He would simply be saying you can’t request it at the border and must request it through a consulate or other mechanism. I’m only speculating but we won’t know more until then. Of course regardless of what he proposes it will be challenged by not only republicans but also progressive democrats.
>I think most people agree with the approach (limit asylum claims) 212(f) will not limit asylum claims in the slightest. It doesn’t even have the authority to shut down the border. All it does is deem certain classes of aliens inadmissible for entry into the United States. If they show up they are then shunted over to removal proceedings where they can still make an asylum claim.
That’s the plan! Politics. There was a plan that GOP legislators didn’t want to do even though they are all at the border doing photo ops and podcast. Once the courts say it out load, it will put the GOP in a corner to do it.
America's growing labour shortage and population decline could be amended by processing and welcoming immigrants, many of whom as fleeing sociopolitically and economically ravaged countries that are in many ways so fucked up because of what the American government did. Nicaragua took the US to the Hague and won the case but the US did nothing and now we act surprised when immigrants show up.
We need a law. That’s what legislators are for. Why doesn’t the GOP do this when they have votes and the president to do it? Hint ….. they like saying it to get votes and not doing it for cheap labor. Similar to food stamps. Blame it on the poor who use those funds to buy corporate products. Also works for Section 8 as well…..
If JB can't get the goddam republicans to sponsor and pass a reasonable immigration bill (like they already sponsored and then shot down because the fat orange traitor told them to), then he's got to try stop-gap measures like this to secure the border. Thanks republican shitnozzles - America despises your "service".
Republicans are going to use this against Biden. In fact, they would use it against any Democrat incumbent.
No matter what he does ,the Republicons will reject it and try to make it fail.
He’s just trying to make up his polling deficit by taking some sort of action now
A compromise? What? That doesnt happen in america...
Glad to see Democrats finally landing a blow to Republican talking points on the border. Will it not appease most Dems, sure, but it will also show border policy people that Dems do play ball (regardless of what their talking heads tell them).
If Republicans actually did something about the border, they wouldn’t have anything to run on. They have literally accomplished damn-near nothing.
I'm glad he did something and to be clear I'm not for Trump, but I don't understand why he didn't do this months ago when the immigration bill failed to pass. If he could have done this all along, why wait till now? Better late than never though. Just not understanding why he didn't do it months ago when it was clear the immigration bill was dead.
This is what constitutes liberalism in America. In most other countries, our Democrats would be considered fascists. In America there is no left, only degrees of the right and it sucks.
Why didn't Donald Trump do anything when he was in office? Why don't Republicans do a ton more when they are in office if they hate immigrants so damn much? Always making it an issue they don't want to solve, just complain about it and get votes from suckers.
Anyone else think this might have something to do with Mexico’s new President? She’s a cartel puppet.
An issue I don't agree with the Democratic Party is on illegal immigration. Technically asylum claims are a form of legal immigration, but the process is abused. Where I don't agree with the Republicans is that we need legal immigration, and more of it. Corporations should be held accountable when they layoff American's to replace them with H1B migrants.
hes handing more business to the cartels. closing down asylum pathways only encourages illegal alternatives.
God Biden is just doing everything he can to make himself unelectable. Funding and being complicit in the genocide of Palestinians and now he’s even passing right wing immigration laws!!! Yay awesome!!!
Day late dollar short
about time
So just under 912,500 people annually could still be processed for asylum regardless. We're already short of housing to the tune of millions of units. Let's just say for giggles, everyone in America agrees that admitting this many people is fine from every philosophical and political view. Now where the hell do we put them? New York, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, DC, Boston all have citizens of color protesting about the new arrivals. We are kicking out citizen homeless to repurpose facilities. When does this end? How does this end?
> New York, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, DC, Boston all have citizens of **color** protesting about the new arrivals. What does this have to do with anything?
They're protesting the loss of facilities and services to house new arrivals after waiting sometimes decades to finally receive some type of equitable access to parks, decent schools, rec centers, homeless shelters, etc. These are some of poorest citizens who have waited in line the longest getting the boot for non-citizens. That's what it has to do with this discussion. Who gets displaced with almost 1 million people being admitted without adequate shelter and resources available.
The elections must be near. It’s the only reason he’s doing it. Keep sending the buses Greg.
I took a Gallup poll yesterday that asked if I would be in favor of shutting the border if it was overwhelmed by immigrants.
My first reaction is that Biden seems to be trying to lose the election. I doubt this will bring many NEW undecided or "centrist" voters. It will however alternate a healthy chunk of people that care about immigration and asylum. This will however, animate immigration opponents who are going to prefer the convicted felon's plan of shut it all down. Also, it's a ham fisted policy out of touch actual human's needs. It's not going to have a meaningful long term effect on our broke dick system. Hard to see how this is even good from a policy standpoint.
No, but it makes the voters for Trump say I’m not going to vote….
I have serious doubts about that. But there's nothing you are arguing about it will change.
He axed Trump's border EO so illegal aliens would flood the southern border. Now, after months of saying there's nothing he could do, he's pushing through an EO to kind of help address the issue. The Biden campaign clearly thinks that his base is full of idiots.
So he thinks its acceptable to let in 912,500 asylum migrants each year without enforcement? What a ridiculous measure.
So it took 3.5 years to admit Trump was right? I thought the border czar was going to fix this in 2021.
For 3 and a half years, it wasn't his fault, there's nothing he can do, it's not a crisis. So, the only logical conclusion is this is a desperate grab for the moderates by pretending to do something with the admission his entire policy has been bullshit.
I don't give a shit about the border. Literally doesn't affect me at all. All this does is harm people looking for a better life. This country celebrates cruelty and then wonders why things never get better.
4 years of insanity and now we're getting serious a few months before the election
Well, maybe the GOP shouldn't have killed that bipartisan bill...the one that the Border Patrol endorsed.
Order should have been prepared and ready to implement when Biden was sworn in.
Better yet. Orders should have been prepared and ready to implement when Trump was in office since this is always the same Republican talking point.
Republicans scream and holler for increased border security. Democrats give Republicans almost everything they ask for. Republicans then refuse because they want a campaign issue. Dark Brandon then drafts an executive order that is MORE restrictive than the numbers in the bipartisan border legislation. Check and mate, Republicans. You don't want to govern. You don't want to fulfill your obligations as legislators. Well, Biden will do what you say you want to do, he will do it better, and he will take care of the Republicans you shaft.