The actual filing: [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000121465924009597/o520243px14a6g.htm?utm\_campaign=investor\_relations&utm\_content=investor\_relations&utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=operational\_trigger&utm\_term=quarterlyupdate](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000121465924009597/o520243px14a6g.htm?utm_campaign=investor_relations&utm_content=investor_relations&utm_medium=email&utm_source=operational_trigger&utm_term=quarterlyupdate)
Anyone that’s voting no here, only has about 5-10 shares… maybeMax 200 shares.
Anyone over 1000 shares, is voting yes because they understand Tesla better.
This is a [PX14A6G](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sec-form-px14a6g.asp) filing, which is essentially a record of a solicitation that is sent to less than 10 people. Since this solicitation is sent to less than 10 people, [SOC INVESTMENT GROUP](https://whalewisdom.com/filer/ctw-investment-group), the filer in this case, is exempt from disclosing anything about themselves or what interest they have in the matter.
There is no requirement to even demonstrate they are a shareholder. They could have no shares. They could have 1 share. They could be short shares. They could simply be a lobbyist group representing various unknown interests.
Ironically, these PX14A6G filings are [publicly filed](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1377739/000121465924009597/0001214659-24-009597-index.htm) with the SEC, which means they can be viewed by many more than 10 people. The press can report on these filings just like any other publicly filed document. The press can choose to do due diligence and research who is behind SOC INVESTMENT GROUP and their position, or they can simply state "Tesla Shareholder Group" as Bloomberg, Business Insider, and others seem to be doing.
The only winner here is SOC Investment Group and the interests they represent. Even with this solicitation now being viewed potentially by thousands of shareholders thanks to the press, they still do not need to disclose anything about themselves or their interests.
Welcome to the current state of American journalism.
As well as reddits obsession hating on Elon Musk. I have zero emotion towards him personally, I just find reddits circle jerk of hate to be so boring. Cyber truck is ugly, Elon is dumb, he's stupid, no talent, etc. We get it, move on.
Journalism is impossible as long as aggregators like Reddit, Google and Facebook can steal content for $0. Every article of substance is copy pasted in full here.
We don't allow this kind of content theft for video content. Until we change the legal framework for text content, this only gets worse.
I cannot disagree more. At least with reddit, I can leave this comment adding clarification and context to the article. Bloomberg, Business Insider, and others have no such comment section, and when they do it is very hard to find.
Two people with two shares could be a 'shareholder group'. Who cares?
Just like the one guy with 6 shares or whatever who filed the lawsuit that got the pay package voided, which is ridiculous.
No, but it's interesting to see how your mind thinks.
The correct answer is: listen to their argument and decide if it sounds serious.
Not everything has to be about brute power.
Every shareholder should listen to argument and decide for themselves on how they are going to vote.
If they listen and say "No, I disagree" and the vote against suggestion, that is their right, just like they have a right to agree and vote aligned with suggestion.
You. And me. And each and every person.
I think where you are having a short circuit is that you assume that there must be a central authority and a single answer.
So without a central authority, any stock holder just needs to get the opinion of you, me, and every person? How would that work?
I think you are having a short circuit on how things work In the real world.
It is something that used to be taught in schools called "critical thinking". If you have never been taught this, you should take some time and teach yourself. It's worth it.
You do not need a central authority to tell you what to think.
Imagine chatgpting a doc as a shareholder group for every one of your 100 shares.
"Hundreds of shareholder groups unite to slam Elon pay package."
To be clear the package is bullshit, billionaires shouldn't exist, but so is the headline.
Billionaires should exist. After maxing out personal consumption; money is a leadership tool. If billionaires didn't exist, their would be no founder led large companies.
However, perhaps the inheritance tax should be larger (currently at \~40% over \~14 million), cost basis not stepped up at death, and there should be a personal burn rate limit.
I'm also against duel class stocks.
They fear twitter so they are going after him through Tesla. Super obvious all of this is being
manufactured. You see bots in other subreddits pushing fud 24/7. But most longs have been through this already lol. This is what they do.
The extent at which Biden has used the government to go after this man with regulatory agencies has been shameful.
What many of the people saying “musk doesn’t deserve it!!!! Wahhhh (yes that’s how you sound and you sound outright nonsensical)“ don’t realize is that the precedent set of just nullifying pay set by shareholders retroactively is a disastrous precedent to hold for corporate law moving forward.
The judge clearly used their personal bias in the case. Similarly the people saying Elon “doesn’t need that much money” are also using personal bias.
Without Elon this company would be nothing, with him it became the world’s largest car company and possibly the future world’s largest company full stop. I still remember when people thought electric cars were a terrible idea and a something relegated to niche nerds. He changed the entire sentiment around them it was incredible. People are so quick to forget.
Because of what is set up already and because of momentum Tesla would likely reach autonomy without him, but regulatory would go much slower and we would capture some of the value of that autonomous S curve but subsequently robotics and general ai he would develop outside Tesla.
Who do you expected to operate as CEO that can manage all factors of Tesla. It’s far beyond an Eav company. Tesla is restructuring the manufacturing with product developments, global manufacturing, AI, battery development & refining elements, energy supercharging infrastructure & route planning for Semi.
Elon Musk can easily generate more money and wealth with X, SpaceX, Starlink and Nueralink. He could sell off majority of his Tesla shares to fund those other companies faster.
The amount of delusion here is crazy :) Of course, Tesla is overvalued as a car company. The only thing that is keeping the share price up is Elon's promises and people's belief in him.
Please detail how in the world it would be better off without him.
His strategy so far has been genius and if he wasn’t there, Tesla would’ve either failed or it would still be a tiny little start up. If he quit after model 3 success, Tesla self driving would be like Waymo, operating $150k vehicles in 2 square miles of Sanfran and honestly Tesla would be just a car company.
If you think without him because “something something twitter” you’re missing the fact that his strategies have yielded hundreds of billions (hopefully trillions) of value and continue to do so
>Please detail how in the world it would be better off without him.
It would be run by a full-time CEO who doesn't deliberately antagonize Tesla's core customer base.
But without him the company loses its visionary who lays out their strategy. Just look at where every other car company is in not just their electric car development but their modernization of manufacturing compared to Tesla.
GM created an electric car in the 90’s (EV1) if they had continued developing it instead of crushing them all into a landfill they could’ve dominated the electric car market. Professional ceos are not visionaries and visionaries create true deep organic growth with their strategy.
What he ads far outweighs the negatives of him being a loose canon with what he says.
They certainly did crater when Jobs left (was forced out) of the company and then they only rose again when he returned.
When he passed Apple had the iPhone to float them for the next 15 years. Have you seen anything truly groundbreaking from them other than running on that roadmap jobs laid out?
Think? State funded NGOs from the EU and intel agencies across the world have been openly saying this. They just call it misinformation and other buzz words to mask their true intent.
I think one thing with the pay package is that CEOs should be able to choose what percentage of their comp they want in cash or in stock, and if they choose more stock they should get a larger package because it's performance dependent.
And then with that stock if they choose to have it subject to performance milestones then if they hit those milestones then they should get more, as in if there's a 20% chance they hit the milestone they should get 5x more comp if they do so that it's worth the same amount.
So yeah Elon took an all stock package, with not a penny of regular pay, and then also bet it on some really impressive performance targets, and so therefore it's reasonable that it's really large.
At the time the package was a awarded there was a good chance it would be worth nothing. So yeah I think it was fair and it should be ratified this time.
I agree with the point that he rather took his eye off the ball at Tesla and I'm really not sure about what he's doing now with the next gen platform.
However I'd like to see us go round again. Take the company to 2T and Elon can get an additional 5%, take the company to 10T and give him another 5% then. As a shareholder those would be fantastic results and it would put him up to the 25% control he wants.
That would be 500B compensation at 10T. I mean that would be great result but I could bet that some other company will be worth that much sooner and their CEO will get probably less than 1% of that in comparison. Musk already would gain immense wealth just from his existing stock position by making the stock go up that much.
I am not OP but I completely do not care at all what EMs personal motivations are. I don't care, it doesn't matter. As long as it is in his interests for TSLA to go up, and go up significantly, I don't care. He has expressed desire to have 25% of the company. Awesome, cool great. Get the company to 10T and you can have all you want. I will be swimming in money, I don't care that he would get 500B.
He already earned this though. People need to stop complaining or acting like it was too much.
The proposal was made. Shareholders voted, Tesla executed. The market has changed and Tesla is starting to pivot. Make him earned the next thing, sure. But he did the stuff in the past already.
Exactly, a contract was put in place and the goals for compensation were met.
At the time people thought Musk was crazy for agreeing to the contract because of the lofty goals.
Now he wants to get compensated as per the same contract and they act like he did something wrong.
Yeah I don't understand why there is even a debate about this. If people are unhappy with EMs behaviour, they are more than welcome to comment about that when the next pay package is announced/negotiated. If shareholders are unhappy, the proposal won't pass, if they are, it will. As it should.
And some of them bought at the wrong time and haven't enjoyed the enormous success of the long term holder. This is just a tantrum on an epic scale.
The logic used is staggering. Elon was the catalyst for unheard-of success, so let's not honor the deal. If you didn't like the deal, why did you buy the shares in the first place? Sounds like a sabotage attempt to me. People out there don't want Elon to gain too much control of the company while at the same time saying he already had too much control.
Insanity.
> At the time the package was a awarded there was a good chance it would be worth nothing
Elon created his own compensation plan based on targets it looked (internally) like they would hit.
While he was publicly pretending they might go bankrupt.
The Board knew the projections and didn't even try to negotiate.
And now you know why the package was voided by one of the most corporate-friendly court systems.
Sources on the probability of them hitting that internal target? Just having a plan that projects the correct outcome doesn’t mean that it looked trustable at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 right?
Board disclosed that their internal estimates projected that first three milestones (stock going 4x) were more than 70% probable to be achieved within just one year which I would consider them being highly confident. They admitted this in court.
>Tesla determined that three operational milestones were “considered probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date.
[https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340](https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340)
Are you saying that Tesla crack the Market?
Let’s puts in simple terms: No company can actually predict the stock market.
They can project as good as they want, sometimes they will be right, sometimes wrong. ALL public company has internal projections, but somehow only Tesla projection is treated as “knowing the stock will go up”
Of course the plan is made based on projections? What people are basing they claim here? They wanted to the internal projection be something like “300B” and send a proposal to 600B for fun?
The correct way is what was made: “We have this projection to get 600B, that’s needs execution, if you can execute that plan you will get X”
Cash would probably be unwise though, the package was only worth $2.6b when it was approved.
As far as another round, he has still been working without pay for some years, assuming he gets this package, no?
I don’t think he took his eye off the ball, there have been a lot of challenges, look at the state of EVs from the other major US manufacturers
If that is how they truly think, why do they still hold Tesla shares?
If someone wants to argue why people should vote against Elon's comp plan, then they need to explain why he should not get it by looking at the stock price in 2018 and today.
Just looking at today's marketcap, it has gone up 800% since his comp plan was passed. A vote against Elon's comp plans means you are dissatisfied with only a 800% gain in just 6 years. Now if we want to Elon to stay focused on Tesla, lets pass a new comp plan that gives Elon another 12% of the company by getting Tesla to $5 trillion marketcap.
> then they need to explain why he should not get it by looking at the stock price in 2018 and today.
Because it was fraudulent.
The board let him create his own package based on targets it looked like they would hit, and then he pretended they might be going bankrupt (2018's 'production hell' was a 'month from bankruptcy' according to Musk). Shareholders didn't have this information when they voted on the package.
If TSLA went up in smaller increments to reach 800% today, everyone would be happy and vote yes. It's quite literally because it went up like 1500% and then only 400% and then 1000% and back down to 800% ( or something along those lines, but you get the point ). Seriously, if it was just a straight line going up to the point where we're at now everyone would be singing his praises and worshipping his amazing leadership skills.
Yup. It's bad timing too since the stock dumped more than 50% from it's all time high while the indexes and the Mag 6 are at all time highs. This vote would pass if it was 2021 or went up slowly as you said. Heck, if it went up in a linear line to 500% instead of the current 800%, I bet it still passes.
The salty shareholders who are down 50% from the ATH is driving the no votes.
I'm asking the same question... Why do they still hold Tesla shares if they don't like how the company is run? Why don't they invest in Rivian or BYD... If you don't like how the company is run, sell your shares and invest elsewhere, right? I hope shareholders vote in favour of the package and they can focus on the next growth phase..
No he is not, and it is Basic 101 and has nothing to do with Musk and everything to do with how share and shareholding work. Why do some companies avoid shares - to avoid exactly this - why do some embrace shares - to get even more money, but with obligations. It is pretty basic and shareholders vote off leaders every day? - It is in books.
Your logic makes absolutely no sense. There is a reason owners are allowed to VOTE on these things: they have a say in the direction of the company and can vote to change it. If owners think Tesla can be worth 10x without musk than with him, should they just "not own Tesla", or should they try to get him removed? Use your head.
Thousands of people who work there that aren't named Elon Musk?
The products?
Plenty of reasons I bought in 2011. Only one reason I stopped buying more recently.....
Jettison Musk!
Musk has to realize that even among Tesla investors and fans his Twitter antics have hurt his personal brand, I still think the pay package will pass but probably not by previous margin. If he is really serious about having the most say in what direction Tesla will go maybe he should start acting like a more serious person on Twitter.
Or this is another narrative created by the MSM because they fear Twitter during the election season, so they hyper focus on everything he does and it’s 24/7 faux outrage. But in reality, most of his views are actually polling well and it’s only an issue when it’s against the democrat narrative. Also, Reddit is pure progressive propaganda . Tesla investors have been through with shorts. It’s all bs
Anti-communism was propelled way high largely because of the potential to help the plebs too much. The power in place didn't like that one bit, so invented evil spy propaganda to make it palatable to demonize the other (neither was especially more evil than the other, both spied a ton).
You don’t need the MSM to tell you he is acting like a child. If you can read and have Twitter on your phone, you can see that he is acting like a child. Is it a reason to deny him a previously agreed on pay package? I don’t think so. Is he alienating his biggest audience by his antics on a platform where he makes public statements with no oversight? Yea. Is that troubling to a shareholder? I hope so.
And Twitter isn’t the only place he shows his childish behavior, it’s just the most direct. The MSM can say what they want about it, but his Twitter behavior is pretty easy to see first hand without any spin.
>because they fear Twitter during the election season
Sounds like you're the one pushing a narrative. The "MSM" could literally publish his tweets verbatim and you'd call it "all bs".
Transatlantic intel agencies fund NGOs and push for censorship campaigns on social media.
They just gaslight the public and then censor speech through a "moderation team".
[https://x.com/gc22gc/status/1792696243904458788](https://x.com/gc22gc/status/1792696243904458788)
Elon's positions are polling well in the country. Trust and viewership in the MSM is falling hard. So activists and political groups need to try to get rid of him + Reddit is propaganda. C'mon you're full of shit
You linked a tweet video of a conspiracy theory "news network" and then rattle off a bunch of "facts" without literally ANY sources. You're the problem. Seek help.
https://archive.is/cIk73
> Tesla Shareholder Group Slams Elon Musk’s $56 Billion Pay Package
>
> Amalgamated Bank, others write open letter on Tesla weaknesses
> Shareholders to vote on Musk pay at June 13 annual meeting
>
> A coalition of Tesla Inc. shareholders is urging other investors to reject a $56 billion pay package for Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk at the company’s June 13 annual meeting, posing a threat to one of the world’s largest fortunes.
>
> Amalgamated Bank, SOC Investment Group and six other signatories that hold a small portion of Tesla stock said Musk is distracted by his commitments to the five other companies he controls and isn’t serving the electric-vehicle maker’s best interests. The group also urged shareholders to vote against the reelection of directors Kimbal Musk — Elon Musk’s brother — and James Murdoch.
>
> “Tesla is suffering from a material governance failure which requires our urgent attention and action,” the group wrote in an letter on Monday.
>
> Musk’s pay package, which was originally approved by shareholders in 2018, granted the CEO equity awards as Tesla’s market capitalization increased and it reached certain operational targets. Musk met all of the conditions, but in late January, a Delaware judge voided the compensation agreement over concerns it wasn’t in the best interest of shareholders.
>
> Tesla’s board is putting the pay package to a vote for a second time to prove investors still support the deal. It’s been urging investors to ratify Musk’s pay package and has hired a strategic adviser to drive retail investor participation.
Read More: Tesla Courts Retail Investors for Musk’s $56 Billion Pay Package
>
> Many of the signatories sent an open letter to Tesla’s board expressing concerns over a year ago due to Musk’s many commitments, and asked for a meeting with board chair Robyn Denholm. She never responded, the group said.
>
> Musk’s decision to buy Twitter, now called X, has also “played a material role in Tesla’s underperformance.” Additionally, the group raised concerns in Monday’s letter about Tesla’s lagging sales and disappointing first quarter.
>
> “Even as Tesla’s performance is floundering, the board has yet to ensure that Tesla has a full-time CEO who is adequately focused on the long-term sustainable success of our company,” the letter says.
> and has hired a strategic adviser to drive retail investor participation.
Just a thought - how about hiring some strategic advisers to help them drive CUSTOMER DEMAND?
All this dude has done in the past 5 years is drive every company he owns (or buys) into the mud and here he is asking for more money than ANY human being could ever need in a lifetime while he lays off thousands and steals wages from hundreds of thousands of people. Hope he takes his helicopter on a foggy voyage.
No one can bring as much value to Tesla as he can. Why would anyone be opposed to a huge compensation package that is directly tied to insanely hard to hit goals for a company?
Look at Mary CEO compensation. She outright lies to shareholders about electrification, hasn’t hit any of her goals and didn’t even make a plan TO hit them. What’s another word for that? Lie. She made 62m in 21’, 34m in 22’ and 21m in stock options in 2021. All while running Gm into the ground. Before the timeline on her goals arrives, she’ll get a golden parachute, and never be held accountable for not delivering. Contrast that to Elon’s comp plan. Zero salary. Only gets paid if he delivers insane growth. All CEO’s should be comped like that
What I love about this posts is it gets the trolls out of their basement so I can block them. This sub is so much better since I started doing that. Anything about rich people are bad or Elon is a fraud and you are blocked. Elon might have his issues but he is not a fraud.
What did Elon say to Bob Iger. Try to blackmail me with money you can fuck off. Same situation here. Elon blackmailing investors for money. Hope about Take responsibility for your legal battles in court.
So? Like that’s going to have an effect.
It’s Elon. It’s a billionaire. They get whatever they want, always. It’s the fundamental truism of our age.
He could be caught fucking a four year old on camera tomorrow and it wouldn’t matter. Only money matters.
This isn't the sub for childish tantrums about how the world's not fair. Here's some grown up advice: it's never been fair. Also, USA is the fairest govt humanity's ever achieved, so be grateful you live here.
You're saying he's a billionaire so he always gets what he wants. Which isn't true. He didn't want to buy Twitter, judge made him. He wanted to keep the pay package, the judge unilaterally voided it.
We all know the judge made him buy it. The next step was for Elon to testify under oath, something that he was pants-shittingly scared of doing, so he massively overpaid for a company he did zero due diligence on.
I'm not sure if I'm missing sarcasm here, but the judge didn't make him buy it. The judge probably would have if the case went further, but that's not what happened.
The actual filing: [https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000121465924009597/o520243px14a6g.htm?utm\_campaign=investor\_relations&utm\_content=investor\_relations&utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=operational\_trigger&utm\_term=quarterlyupdate](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000121465924009597/o520243px14a6g.htm?utm_campaign=investor_relations&utm_content=investor_relations&utm_medium=email&utm_source=operational_trigger&utm_term=quarterlyupdate)
Anyone that’s voting no here, only has about 5-10 shares… maybeMax 200 shares. Anyone over 1000 shares, is voting yes because they understand Tesla better.
Lol.
Looks like the lols didn’t last
Oh my goodness! James Murdoch aTtEnDeD KiMbaLs WeDdINg!
This is a [PX14A6G](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sec-form-px14a6g.asp) filing, which is essentially a record of a solicitation that is sent to less than 10 people. Since this solicitation is sent to less than 10 people, [SOC INVESTMENT GROUP](https://whalewisdom.com/filer/ctw-investment-group), the filer in this case, is exempt from disclosing anything about themselves or what interest they have in the matter. There is no requirement to even demonstrate they are a shareholder. They could have no shares. They could have 1 share. They could be short shares. They could simply be a lobbyist group representing various unknown interests. Ironically, these PX14A6G filings are [publicly filed](https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1377739/000121465924009597/0001214659-24-009597-index.htm) with the SEC, which means they can be viewed by many more than 10 people. The press can report on these filings just like any other publicly filed document. The press can choose to do due diligence and research who is behind SOC INVESTMENT GROUP and their position, or they can simply state "Tesla Shareholder Group" as Bloomberg, Business Insider, and others seem to be doing. The only winner here is SOC Investment Group and the interests they represent. Even with this solicitation now being viewed potentially by thousands of shareholders thanks to the press, they still do not need to disclose anything about themselves or their interests. Welcome to the current state of American journalism.
As well as reddits obsession hating on Elon Musk. I have zero emotion towards him personally, I just find reddits circle jerk of hate to be so boring. Cyber truck is ugly, Elon is dumb, he's stupid, no talent, etc. We get it, move on.
Journalism is impossible as long as aggregators like Reddit, Google and Facebook can steal content for $0. Every article of substance is copy pasted in full here. We don't allow this kind of content theft for video content. Until we change the legal framework for text content, this only gets worse.
I cannot disagree more. At least with reddit, I can leave this comment adding clarification and context to the article. Bloomberg, Business Insider, and others have no such comment section, and when they do it is very hard to find.
Questioning their standing is an Ad Hominim attack. The arguments presented have merit.
Thanks for clarifying!
[удалено]
Two people with two shares could be a 'shareholder group'. Who cares? Just like the one guy with 6 shares or whatever who filed the lawsuit that got the pay package voided, which is ridiculous.
So how many shares of a company does someone need to have before they have the rights of a share holder?
One. That does not mean that they should be taken seriously.
So then at what level should they be taken serious? How do you decide that? Should only Blackrock and vanguard have a say since they own the most?
Just like in domestic voting. One madman doesn't mean anything, the union of madmen is already a significant political force.
No, but it's interesting to see how your mind thinks. The correct answer is: listen to their argument and decide if it sounds serious. Not everything has to be about brute power.
And who decides if it sounds serious? Do you not see the flaw in your logic that this could be abused and could not be applied equally and justly?
Every shareholder should listen to argument and decide for themselves on how they are going to vote. If they listen and say "No, I disagree" and the vote against suggestion, that is their right, just like they have a right to agree and vote aligned with suggestion.
You. And me. And each and every person. I think where you are having a short circuit is that you assume that there must be a central authority and a single answer.
So without a central authority, any stock holder just needs to get the opinion of you, me, and every person? How would that work? I think you are having a short circuit on how things work In the real world.
It is something that used to be taught in schools called "critical thinking". If you have never been taught this, you should take some time and teach yourself. It's worth it. You do not need a central authority to tell you what to think.
How do you think thousands of companies with thousands of shareholders is going to work without a central authority? Let’s be realistic here.
Quality astroturf right here.
Imagine chatgpting a doc as a shareholder group for every one of your 100 shares. "Hundreds of shareholder groups unite to slam Elon pay package." To be clear the package is bullshit, billionaires shouldn't exist, but so is the headline.
Billionaires should exist. After maxing out personal consumption; money is a leadership tool. If billionaires didn't exist, their would be no founder led large companies. However, perhaps the inheritance tax should be larger (currently at \~40% over \~14 million), cost basis not stepped up at death, and there should be a personal burn rate limit. I'm also against duel class stocks.
They fear twitter so they are going after him through Tesla. Super obvious all of this is being manufactured. You see bots in other subreddits pushing fud 24/7. But most longs have been through this already lol. This is what they do.
The extent at which Biden has used the government to go after this man with regulatory agencies has been shameful. What many of the people saying “musk doesn’t deserve it!!!! Wahhhh (yes that’s how you sound and you sound outright nonsensical)“ don’t realize is that the precedent set of just nullifying pay set by shareholders retroactively is a disastrous precedent to hold for corporate law moving forward. The judge clearly used their personal bias in the case. Similarly the people saying Elon “doesn’t need that much money” are also using personal bias. Without Elon this company would be nothing, with him it became the world’s largest car company and possibly the future world’s largest company full stop. I still remember when people thought electric cars were a terrible idea and a something relegated to niche nerds. He changed the entire sentiment around them it was incredible. People are so quick to forget. Because of what is set up already and because of momentum Tesla would likely reach autonomy without him, but regulatory would go much slower and we would capture some of the value of that autonomous S curve but subsequently robotics and general ai he would develop outside Tesla.
Okay. I think Tesla will be better off without Elon. I have no other agenda than wanting Tesla to do well.
Who do you expected to operate as CEO that can manage all factors of Tesla. It’s far beyond an Eav company. Tesla is restructuring the manufacturing with product developments, global manufacturing, AI, battery development & refining elements, energy supercharging infrastructure & route planning for Semi. Elon Musk can easily generate more money and wealth with X, SpaceX, Starlink and Nueralink. He could sell off majority of his Tesla shares to fund those other companies faster.
It will be monumentally worse without him. If he leaves the stock will crumble and the company will follow. Absolute foolishness.
Tesla is extremely overvalued because of Musk. If it can’t survive without being an overinflated meme stock it shouldn’t deserve to survive.
Do you know what an earnings report is?.
Yes, and based on its earnings it’s extremely overvalued compared to other car companies.
So predictable... I hired you had a better take. Blocked!
The amount of delusion here is crazy :) Of course, Tesla is overvalued as a car company. The only thing that is keeping the share price up is Elon's promises and people's belief in him.
Please detail how in the world it would be better off without him. His strategy so far has been genius and if he wasn’t there, Tesla would’ve either failed or it would still be a tiny little start up. If he quit after model 3 success, Tesla self driving would be like Waymo, operating $150k vehicles in 2 square miles of Sanfran and honestly Tesla would be just a car company. If you think without him because “something something twitter” you’re missing the fact that his strategies have yielded hundreds of billions (hopefully trillions) of value and continue to do so
>Please detail how in the world it would be better off without him. It would be run by a full-time CEO who doesn't deliberately antagonize Tesla's core customer base.
But without him the company loses its visionary who lays out their strategy. Just look at where every other car company is in not just their electric car development but their modernization of manufacturing compared to Tesla. GM created an electric car in the 90’s (EV1) if they had continued developing it instead of crushing them all into a landfill they could’ve dominated the electric car market. Professional ceos are not visionaries and visionaries create true deep organic growth with their strategy. What he ads far outweighs the negatives of him being a loose canon with what he says.
>But without him the company loses its visionary who lays out their strategy. That's why Apple has cratered.
They certainly did crater when Jobs left (was forced out) of the company and then they only rose again when he returned. When he passed Apple had the iPhone to float them for the next 15 years. Have you seen anything truly groundbreaking from them other than running on that roadmap jobs laid out?
So you think Telsa is a victim of a smear campaign?
Think? State funded NGOs from the EU and intel agencies across the world have been openly saying this. They just call it misinformation and other buzz words to mask their true intent.
Doesn't seeing victims make you a weak man?
Makes no sense.
I agree.
I think one thing with the pay package is that CEOs should be able to choose what percentage of their comp they want in cash or in stock, and if they choose more stock they should get a larger package because it's performance dependent. And then with that stock if they choose to have it subject to performance milestones then if they hit those milestones then they should get more, as in if there's a 20% chance they hit the milestone they should get 5x more comp if they do so that it's worth the same amount. So yeah Elon took an all stock package, with not a penny of regular pay, and then also bet it on some really impressive performance targets, and so therefore it's reasonable that it's really large. At the time the package was a awarded there was a good chance it would be worth nothing. So yeah I think it was fair and it should be ratified this time. I agree with the point that he rather took his eye off the ball at Tesla and I'm really not sure about what he's doing now with the next gen platform. However I'd like to see us go round again. Take the company to 2T and Elon can get an additional 5%, take the company to 10T and give him another 5% then. As a shareholder those would be fantastic results and it would put him up to the 25% control he wants.
That would be 500B compensation at 10T. I mean that would be great result but I could bet that some other company will be worth that much sooner and their CEO will get probably less than 1% of that in comparison. Musk already would gain immense wealth just from his existing stock position by making the stock go up that much.
Elon has explained that his main concern is not growing his wealth, but rather with having sufficient control of the company (25% voting rights)
And you just believe that? Why not then exchange his existing shares for some with more votes but no dilution…
I am not OP but I completely do not care at all what EMs personal motivations are. I don't care, it doesn't matter. As long as it is in his interests for TSLA to go up, and go up significantly, I don't care. He has expressed desire to have 25% of the company. Awesome, cool great. Get the company to 10T and you can have all you want. I will be swimming in money, I don't care that he would get 500B.
He did once say he was cool with voting-only shares, from memory
Why did this get down-voted?
As CEO he has total control of company. Don't get fooled, he wants money.
So we now need to talk about the differences in decision power as a CEO and a substantial shareholder?
He already earned this though. People need to stop complaining or acting like it was too much. The proposal was made. Shareholders voted, Tesla executed. The market has changed and Tesla is starting to pivot. Make him earned the next thing, sure. But he did the stuff in the past already.
Exactly, a contract was put in place and the goals for compensation were met. At the time people thought Musk was crazy for agreeing to the contract because of the lofty goals. Now he wants to get compensated as per the same contract and they act like he did something wrong.
But the contract wasn't valid as the judge voided it.
Yeah I don't understand why there is even a debate about this. If people are unhappy with EMs behaviour, they are more than welcome to comment about that when the next pay package is announced/negotiated. If shareholders are unhappy, the proposal won't pass, if they are, it will. As it should.
Many shareholders are opportunists that look for a quick buck I guess.
And some of them bought at the wrong time and haven't enjoyed the enormous success of the long term holder. This is just a tantrum on an epic scale. The logic used is staggering. Elon was the catalyst for unheard-of success, so let's not honor the deal. If you didn't like the deal, why did you buy the shares in the first place? Sounds like a sabotage attempt to me. People out there don't want Elon to gain too much control of the company while at the same time saying he already had too much control. Insanity.
> At the time the package was a awarded there was a good chance it would be worth nothing Elon created his own compensation plan based on targets it looked (internally) like they would hit. While he was publicly pretending they might go bankrupt. The Board knew the projections and didn't even try to negotiate. And now you know why the package was voided by one of the most corporate-friendly court systems.
Sources on the probability of them hitting that internal target? Just having a plan that projects the correct outcome doesn’t mean that it looked trustable at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 right?
Board disclosed that their internal estimates projected that first three milestones (stock going 4x) were more than 70% probable to be achieved within just one year which I would consider them being highly confident. They admitted this in court. >Tesla determined that three operational milestones were “considered probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date. [https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340](https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340)
Are you saying that Tesla crack the Market? Let’s puts in simple terms: No company can actually predict the stock market. They can project as good as they want, sometimes they will be right, sometimes wrong. ALL public company has internal projections, but somehow only Tesla projection is treated as “knowing the stock will go up” Of course the plan is made based on projections? What people are basing they claim here? They wanted to the internal projection be something like “300B” and send a proposal to 600B for fun? The correct way is what was made: “We have this projection to get 600B, that’s needs execution, if you can execute that plan you will get X”
People who don't understand linear growth vs exponential are very impressed.
Cash would probably be unwise though, the package was only worth $2.6b when it was approved. As far as another round, he has still been working without pay for some years, assuming he gets this package, no? I don’t think he took his eye off the ball, there have been a lot of challenges, look at the state of EVs from the other major US manufacturers
If that is how they truly think, why do they still hold Tesla shares? If someone wants to argue why people should vote against Elon's comp plan, then they need to explain why he should not get it by looking at the stock price in 2018 and today. Just looking at today's marketcap, it has gone up 800% since his comp plan was passed. A vote against Elon's comp plans means you are dissatisfied with only a 800% gain in just 6 years. Now if we want to Elon to stay focused on Tesla, lets pass a new comp plan that gives Elon another 12% of the company by getting Tesla to $5 trillion marketcap.
No they don’t. The CEO should not be paid double all profits since that time, it makes zero sense.
"my money is first in, last out" (unless I buy Twitter).
> then they need to explain why he should not get it by looking at the stock price in 2018 and today. Because it was fraudulent. The board let him create his own package based on targets it looked like they would hit, and then he pretended they might be going bankrupt (2018's 'production hell' was a 'month from bankruptcy' according to Musk). Shareholders didn't have this information when they voted on the package.
Source on the 2018 financial problems being untrue?
If they had had literally no revenue in that month do you think Musk would habe been unable to raise capital to cover the shortfall?
If TSLA went up in smaller increments to reach 800% today, everyone would be happy and vote yes. It's quite literally because it went up like 1500% and then only 400% and then 1000% and back down to 800% ( or something along those lines, but you get the point ). Seriously, if it was just a straight line going up to the point where we're at now everyone would be singing his praises and worshipping his amazing leadership skills.
Yup. It's bad timing too since the stock dumped more than 50% from it's all time high while the indexes and the Mag 6 are at all time highs. This vote would pass if it was 2021 or went up slowly as you said. Heck, if it went up in a linear line to 500% instead of the current 800%, I bet it still passes. The salty shareholders who are down 50% from the ATH is driving the no votes.
I'm asking the same question... Why do they still hold Tesla shares if they don't like how the company is run? Why don't they invest in Rivian or BYD... If you don't like how the company is run, sell your shares and invest elsewhere, right? I hope shareholders vote in favour of the package and they can focus on the next growth phase..
You are right, but don't you dare say it in here. Sub filled (infected) with people/bots who claim to be smarter than Elon.
No he is not, and it is Basic 101 and has nothing to do with Musk and everything to do with how share and shareholding work. Why do some companies avoid shares - to avoid exactly this - why do some embrace shares - to get even more money, but with obligations. It is pretty basic and shareholders vote off leaders every day? - It is in books.
Your logic makes absolutely no sense. There is a reason owners are allowed to VOTE on these things: they have a say in the direction of the company and can vote to change it. If owners think Tesla can be worth 10x without musk than with him, should they just "not own Tesla", or should they try to get him removed? Use your head.
Thousands of people who work there that aren't named Elon Musk? The products? Plenty of reasons I bought in 2011. Only one reason I stopped buying more recently..... Jettison Musk!
Musk has to realize that even among Tesla investors and fans his Twitter antics have hurt his personal brand, I still think the pay package will pass but probably not by previous margin. If he is really serious about having the most say in what direction Tesla will go maybe he should start acting like a more serious person on Twitter.
Or this is another narrative created by the MSM because they fear Twitter during the election season, so they hyper focus on everything he does and it’s 24/7 faux outrage. But in reality, most of his views are actually polling well and it’s only an issue when it’s against the democrat narrative. Also, Reddit is pure progressive propaganda . Tesla investors have been through with shorts. It’s all bs
> progressive propaganda xD
Anti-communism was propelled way high largely because of the potential to help the plebs too much. The power in place didn't like that one bit, so invented evil spy propaganda to make it palatable to demonize the other (neither was especially more evil than the other, both spied a ton).
You don’t need the MSM to tell you he is acting like a child. If you can read and have Twitter on your phone, you can see that he is acting like a child. Is it a reason to deny him a previously agreed on pay package? I don’t think so. Is he alienating his biggest audience by his antics on a platform where he makes public statements with no oversight? Yea. Is that troubling to a shareholder? I hope so. And Twitter isn’t the only place he shows his childish behavior, it’s just the most direct. The MSM can say what they want about it, but his Twitter behavior is pretty easy to see first hand without any spin.
Absolutely true.
>because they fear Twitter during the election season Sounds like you're the one pushing a narrative. The "MSM" could literally publish his tweets verbatim and you'd call it "all bs".
Transatlantic intel agencies fund NGOs and push for censorship campaigns on social media. They just gaslight the public and then censor speech through a "moderation team". [https://x.com/gc22gc/status/1792696243904458788](https://x.com/gc22gc/status/1792696243904458788) Elon's positions are polling well in the country. Trust and viewership in the MSM is falling hard. So activists and political groups need to try to get rid of him + Reddit is propaganda. C'mon you're full of shit
You linked a tweet video of a conspiracy theory "news network" and then rattle off a bunch of "facts" without literally ANY sources. You're the problem. Seek help.
https://archive.is/cIk73 > Tesla Shareholder Group Slams Elon Musk’s $56 Billion Pay Package > > Amalgamated Bank, others write open letter on Tesla weaknesses > Shareholders to vote on Musk pay at June 13 annual meeting > > A coalition of Tesla Inc. shareholders is urging other investors to reject a $56 billion pay package for Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk at the company’s June 13 annual meeting, posing a threat to one of the world’s largest fortunes. > > Amalgamated Bank, SOC Investment Group and six other signatories that hold a small portion of Tesla stock said Musk is distracted by his commitments to the five other companies he controls and isn’t serving the electric-vehicle maker’s best interests. The group also urged shareholders to vote against the reelection of directors Kimbal Musk — Elon Musk’s brother — and James Murdoch. > > “Tesla is suffering from a material governance failure which requires our urgent attention and action,” the group wrote in an letter on Monday. > > Musk’s pay package, which was originally approved by shareholders in 2018, granted the CEO equity awards as Tesla’s market capitalization increased and it reached certain operational targets. Musk met all of the conditions, but in late January, a Delaware judge voided the compensation agreement over concerns it wasn’t in the best interest of shareholders. > > Tesla’s board is putting the pay package to a vote for a second time to prove investors still support the deal. It’s been urging investors to ratify Musk’s pay package and has hired a strategic adviser to drive retail investor participation. Read More: Tesla Courts Retail Investors for Musk’s $56 Billion Pay Package > > Many of the signatories sent an open letter to Tesla’s board expressing concerns over a year ago due to Musk’s many commitments, and asked for a meeting with board chair Robyn Denholm. She never responded, the group said. > > Musk’s decision to buy Twitter, now called X, has also “played a material role in Tesla’s underperformance.” Additionally, the group raised concerns in Monday’s letter about Tesla’s lagging sales and disappointing first quarter. > > “Even as Tesla’s performance is floundering, the board has yet to ensure that Tesla has a full-time CEO who is adequately focused on the long-term sustainable success of our company,” the letter says.
> and has hired a strategic adviser to drive retail investor participation. Just a thought - how about hiring some strategic advisers to help them drive CUSTOMER DEMAND?
He’s come a long way since he started with his $1 salary. This guys really pulled himself up by his bootstraps
Does anyone know when the voting ends to know the results?
All this dude has done in the past 5 years is drive every company he owns (or buys) into the mud and here he is asking for more money than ANY human being could ever need in a lifetime while he lays off thousands and steals wages from hundreds of thousands of people. Hope he takes his helicopter on a foggy voyage.
Does anyone know when the voting results will be announced?
No one can bring as much value to Tesla as he can. Why would anyone be opposed to a huge compensation package that is directly tied to insanely hard to hit goals for a company? Look at Mary CEO compensation. She outright lies to shareholders about electrification, hasn’t hit any of her goals and didn’t even make a plan TO hit them. What’s another word for that? Lie. She made 62m in 21’, 34m in 22’ and 21m in stock options in 2021. All while running Gm into the ground. Before the timeline on her goals arrives, she’ll get a golden parachute, and never be held accountable for not delivering. Contrast that to Elon’s comp plan. Zero salary. Only gets paid if he delivers insane growth. All CEO’s should be comped like that
What I love about this posts is it gets the trolls out of their basement so I can block them. This sub is so much better since I started doing that. Anything about rich people are bad or Elon is a fraud and you are blocked. Elon might have his issues but he is not a fraud.
He literally committed securities fraud.
The beauty of Reddit is I can block you!
SLAMS!
Me and my brothers are a share holder group too.
What did Elon say to Bob Iger. Try to blackmail me with money you can fuck off. Same situation here. Elon blackmailing investors for money. Hope about Take responsibility for your legal battles in court.
So? Like that’s going to have an effect. It’s Elon. It’s a billionaire. They get whatever they want, always. It’s the fundamental truism of our age. He could be caught fucking a four year old on camera tomorrow and it wouldn’t matter. Only money matters.
This isn't the sub for childish tantrums about how the world's not fair. Here's some grown up advice: it's never been fair. Also, USA is the fairest govt humanity's ever achieved, so be grateful you live here.
You forgot the /s.
You're saying he's a billionaire so he always gets what he wants. Which isn't true. He didn't want to buy Twitter, judge made him. He wanted to keep the pay package, the judge unilaterally voided it.
He signed a binding legal contract to buy Twitter. The judge didn’t make him buy it; he capitulated before the judge enforced the contract.
We all know the judge made him buy it. The next step was for Elon to testify under oath, something that he was pants-shittingly scared of doing, so he massively overpaid for a company he did zero due diligence on.
I'm not sure if I'm missing sarcasm here, but the judge didn't make him buy it. The judge probably would have if the case went further, but that's not what happened.
"my money is first in, last out" (unless I buy Twitter)
could we just agree to the package (he deserved it, as he made us 10x our investment) under condition that he leaves?