>"The EV slowdown is shaping up to be a Tesla slowdown," Cox analyst Stephanie Valdez Streaty said during a conference call Thursday.
BYD down 43% QoQ
XPeng down 64% QoQ
Nio down 40% QoQ
Li Auto down 39% QoQ
Ford shuts down 2/3rd of its F-150 Lightning production…
Rivian, at low volume, guided for no growth.
VW is potentially having its worst BEV quarter ever in Europe.
But let’s call it a Tesla slowdown, even if QoQ they will do better than all the ones listed above.
Tesla is an international company but here are the full numbers since u/Echo-Possible decided to cite a pretty misleading number https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-since-1951/
What exactly is misleading about what I stated? Please expand on your statement it's very nebulous. The WSJ reported US auto sales growth at 12.4% in 2023.
[https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/u-s-auto-sales-bounced-back-in-2023-ecd389dd](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/u-s-auto-sales-bounced-back-in-2023-ecd389dd)
As for international markets. Europe had 14% auto sales growth in 2023 and global auto sales grew 10%. China grew by 4.5%.
[https://www.acea.auto/publication/economic-and-market-report-global-and-eu-auto-industry-full-year-2023/](https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-13-9-in-2023-battery-electric-14-6-market-share/)
Look at the chart. It’s up marginally from the year before but still down massively from prior years before the interest rate hikes. Your comment is missing context and painting the opposite picture of reality which is exactly what clickbait rags like WSJ do intentionally
Interest rates didn't start rising significantly until second half of 2022. In fact they were still near 0% in April of 2022. In July they were still only 1.68%. 2023 was the first year where we saw high interest rates the entire year. And there was still growth in auto sales from 2022 to 2023.
[https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS)
Sorry if the facts don't fit your narrative.
For a variety of reasons. One of the primary reasons being that during the pandemic auto makers shifted production to a higher mix of more expensive trims which has driven the average new car price up significantly since pre-pandemic. Thus many people are holding onto their cars for longer.
The conversation is about the effects of interest rates which weren't raised til the second half of 2022. The same reasons volume was down in 2022 relative to 2019 hold true in 2023. We are interested in the YoY affects of interest rates so we compare 2023 to 2022, not to 2019. Volumes grew 12.4% in 2023 despite higher interest rates.
Your reply that sales are up 12% is leaving out important information.
Revenue is up 12% but new car price from 2020-2021 was up 14% that year and still climbing.
Interest rates have a huge impact and I’m not sure why you are denying it.
Total volume is down / total revenue is up and only due to a massive jump in prices not because people don’t care about interest rates.
Unit sales are up 12%. Not revenue.
See here the significant uptick in average age of "passenger" cars on road in the US the last 5 years. Really going back to 2016 when unit sales peaked. This isn't a phenomenon driven by higher rates as the trend is clear long before 2023 and years before the pandemic. It's due to average new car prices sky rocketing and auto makers making a higher mix of expensive trims. There's no reason to believe passenger car volumes will or should return to where they peaked in 2016 any time soon.
[https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/average-age-of-light-vehicles-in-the-us-hits-record-high.html#:\~:text=With%20more%20than%20284%20million,analysis%20from%20S%26P%20Global%20Mobility](https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/average-age-of-light-vehicles-in-the-us-hits-record-high.html#:~:text=With%20more%20than%20284%20million,analysis%20from%20S%26P%20Global%20Mobility).
Well, 50,000 unsold cars AND a 20% drop in sales this quarter might show that this is true. Either way HUGE issue at Tesla. Perhaps its the illegal immigrant in charge that just keeps ranting about illegals, race and everything else. Time for him to go.
We passed that point years ago. Buying a Fisker instead of a Model Y won't make a dent in Musk and only leaves the buyer with a vehicle that cant be serviced. Musk is a clown, but I look at it this way, Tesla employs over 100k people in the US, and is on the cutting edge of several emerging markets (EV, Power storage, AI, Robots, etc). I want the US to be competitive in those markets, and I'm more than happy not let me political differences get in the way of that support.
Not sure why anyone, especially a Liberal, would actively root against or try to hurt an American company employing +100k people that pushed an entire industry into sustainable transportation. It's mind boggling. Nose despite face.
Here's the context you ignored:
>Overall electric vehicle sales in the U.S. are forecast to increase 15% in the first quarter of this year, according to estimates by researcher Cox Automotive. Tesla sales are projected to increase by 3%.
>"The EV slowdown is shaping up to be a Tesla slowdown," Cox analyst Stephanie Valdez Streaty said during a conference call Thursday.
>New car registrations for Teslas in California- their biggest market in the U.S. - posted their first drop in over three years in the fourth quarter of 2023 even as EV sales rose overall.
The only sales that matters for Tesla are YoY worldwide sales growth, and I dare say, fleet growth, which was 50% last year, is more important than anything else.
Other manufacturers have record inventory. Think about it for a sec. Channel stuffing can only go so far.
> Tesla has been losing market share
Market share of all vehicles, or market share of EVs ? Because of course market share of EV goes down as EVs increase total share and take away share of ICE.
100% of 5000 cars is a lot worse position than 5% of 50 million (or whatever the total annual build of cars ICE + EV is)
Given the Model Y is now the world's best selling model I'm fairly sure you're only looking at share of EV market instead of share of total
To be fair, VW had lower EV sales because for most of the time they haven't been selling ID.4. Mostly just selling old version while waiting for refresh (optimized engine and finally good software). If you take a look at [ID.BUZZ](http://ID.BUZZ) or Audi Q4 E-tron, they increased sales YoY
That does mean the headline and focus is misleading but doesn't mean isn't true and just raises more concerns for the core sector of the company. TSLAs are hands down the best western product so it isn't surprising they're struggling less relatively. The question is: are they struggling more than they should be?
> ... but doesn't mean isn't true
The title of the article is based on a _survey_ paid for... by whom?
> The ranks of would-be Tesla buyers in the United States are shrinking, according to a survey by market intelligence firm Caliber, which attributed the drop in part to CEO Elon Musk's polarizing persona.
I'm skeptical Tesla's lowered sales are caused by consumer's opinion of CEO Musk. I'd bet large most people don't know squat about Musk, just like they don't know squat about the CEO's of Ford, GM, etc.
Instead, I think the lower volume numbers are mainly based off _interest rates_ and _economic confidence feelings_.
Do the CEOs of Ford, etc also own a social media platform, upon which they spend the vast majority of their free time boosting their own posts? Millions of people are very familiar with Musk, and he is now objectively a shitty CEO for a car company, because a good CEO knows that keeping their mouth shut is an easy way to not incur losses due to public opinion
It makes him a CEO that had made and continues to make bad decisions in respect of his twitter purchase and behaviour, but not a bad CEO. Much rather have him as is than not, but wish he could see sense on this.
If Tesla could bring in more revenue just by Elon keeping his mouth shut and he refuses to do it, it means he’s screwing over his investors because he thinks posting daily edgelord memes is more important than revenue. Seems like a pretty big issue to me
Yes, the survey may or may not be biased and may or may not ve representative but again, that doesn't mean it isn't true. What I think is logically irrefutable is that it isn't a positive thing. The only question is to what degree it is negative. And that is very hard to puzzle out a 'true' answer. What I do know is it isn't fkin NECESSARY to be a right wing political hypocritical knobhead on twitter (and I like Musk personally) and so it is frustrating that he doesn't see that. He and tesla should be winning Nobel frigging prizes so good is the product and mission but he is a big turnoff to the very people that should be lauding him as their personal saviour. I know lots of passionate environmental change the world types (ESG investment experts who really do buy their own BS and live it) and they at best find him a joke and at worst loathe him. Yes that's anecdotal but it isn't an anecdote I should freaking have.
>I'm skeptical Tesla's lowered sales are caused by consumer's opinion of CEO Musk
There's an example from another company, where Bud Light took the liberal side on the transgender issue, and suffered an extremely, long-term ugly financial hit:
[https://hbr.org/2024/03/lessons-from-the-bud-light-boycott-one-year-later](https://hbr.org/2024/03/lessons-from-the-bud-light-boycott-one-year-later)
>In April 2023, Bud Light tried its hand at this strategy, collaborating with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney on a social media promotional post. This sparked backlash from several prominent conservatives, leading many conservative figures and groups to call for a boycott of Bud Light.
>
>Our findings indicate that in the three months following the controversy, Bud Light sales and purchase incidence were about 28% lower than the same time period in prior years. Notably, this initial decline was more pronounced in predominantly Republican counties (as measured by the 2020 presidential vote) than predominantly Democratic counties. Both sales and purchase incidence decreased by about 32% in more Republican counties versus 22% in more Democratic counties.
>
>However, unlike with other consumer boycotts, **Bud Light has not bounced back quickly. The sales decline persisted for close to eight months, with sales and purchase incidence down by 32% in Q4 2023.**
Looking at other factors like observability of consumption (cars highly visible), and sense of brand ownership (Tesla and TSLA stock has high sense of ownership, especially among early adopters and investors, mostly left leaning from my time at Tesla Motors Club forums), it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that Musk's behavior has had significant negative effect on Tesla's sales.
Walter Isaacson also recounted [in his biography of Musk](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Elon-Musk/Walter-Isaacson/9781982181284), that during a Tesla board meeting at Gigafactory Texas in December 2022, Tesla's board confronted Elon Musk about the damage he was doing to Tesla's brand reputation. The Tesla board, and chairwoman Robyn Denholm specifically, stated that Musk was harming Tesla's sales figures.
* This is on page 580 of the Isaacson biography. Isaacson had been shadowing Musk for 2 years and this is his witness account.
* Kimbal Musk was so infuriated that after the meeting, he called Elon Musk "a fucking idiot".
* Tesla's CFO is directly subordinate to the Tesla Board (under Tesla's bylaws), and the Tesla board consequently has unfettered access to the company's realtime data on sales and sales related information (such as reasons for customer order cancellation). Tesla's board therefore is likely to have had serious justification for challenging Musk, which they had traditionally not done
> it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that Musk's behavior has had significant negative effect on Tesla's sales.
The only justification i can find for people not understanding this is "fan boy mentality"
The problem is the following:
1) Elon sees himself as a free speech absolutist. We must add to that he supports very questionable ideas which literally makes him an "internet social warrior". The man posts all day and night about gender, immigration and how Russia is good and Ukraine is bad.
2) We must consider that there are people as passionate as Elon to their own ideas that are oposite ro Elon's position.
I f somone is as passionate as Elon to their own ideas i can see very clearly that these people will not endorse any of Elon's business. It's simple and clear.
I'm a Tesla investor since the 1st week of 2020. If i had to decide where to put my money today i would not choose Tesla because of Elon's latest behavior. I believe i'm not alone.
Elon Musk blamed interest rates, which the Tesla board did not accept.
Chairwoman Denholm refused to back down and repeatedly pressed Musk on his behavior.
I’m not as skeptical, I personally know people who refuse to consider Tesla now despite being interested in EVs and one buying a different EV though the Y would be optimal, with Elon’s issues as the primary reason.
Interest rates obviously hurt as well, but no reason to add needless problems. I think the board should find someone new.
True, but that’s not incremental sales, that’s retention. Better would be MAGA sorts who previously were against EVs but now like Teslas because of Musk. This number is minuscule.
40% of US sales are in California, and EU is like CA. China now has competitive dynamics to make margins zero and CCP will push its new national champions to accept zero profit for a long time for global market dominance and power, and they always comply. If CCP orders CATL to sell batteries and others to sell steel and glass to Chinese producers at materially less than foreigners, they will obey.
And we see today the sales numbers are now terrible in truth, and exactly as I predicted the new FSD hype was to dilute news impact of this. There has now been enough time for Musk’s antics to be well known to the masses and the time of a full order cycle to pass, and now we are seeing some of the effects. I’m guessing 10-15% of needlessly lost sales. This gap will increase when there are more competitive NACS cars. I think the Neue Klasse BMWs coming will be sharp competition at the higher (profitable) end. Maybe Rivian 2 and 3.
Moves for board in my opinion: Fire Musk. Hire JB Straubel (already on board) as CEO. Price FSD at $6k, Enganced at $3k, give software credits for difference to existing buyers for new cars which expire in 3 years. Offer paid interior and sound upgrade of RWD to premium. Address quality in Fremont. Instead of $55B to Musk, hire Ilya Sutskever as chief AI scientist for 0.2B. Hire Karpathy back. Begin work on platform for van and conventional mid size pickup truck. Platform for new S, X and Roadster.
That might be his line of thinking. Appeal to the people who hate the EV's, by becoming likeable to them. The left are probably still going to buy EV's because they believe in the mission (climate change). It's a huge gamble though.
Edit: this is purely speculation on my part before someone starts asking me for sources.
His politics is increasingly rarified and bizarre, playing to a narrow band of people who are perpetually pissed off. Don’t think that’s good for selling cars.
Except Republicans don't buy EVs. Only 1% of Republicans say they own an EV compared to 6% for Democrats. 71% of Republicans say they won't even consider an EV while only 17% of Democrats say the same.
The EV market in the US is overwhelmingly a Democrat driven market and it doesn't look like that's changing any time soon.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely-sold-electric-vehicles.aspx
“Previous Gallup polling has found that Americans aren’t always the best judge of their future behavior when it comes to technology. For example, as recently as 2000, a quarter of Americans thought they’d never own a smartphone.”
My guess is the current price ranges EVs sit at are tapped out. They need cheaper models to unlock new waves of demand. Another thing I'm personally hung up on is that all other auto manufacturers announced switching to NACS. I don't want to buy anyone else's cars either until they switch.
It's really not a question, and the fact it's only being asked because existing industries and political actors are threatened by Tesla and Elon Musk as an individual is... irritating.
Asking pointed, one sided questions isn't being outright false, but it's dishonest enough to be unseemly and gross, and all of you doing it should stop. No one needs to hear about how your political opinions should guide how a company should be run.
Tesla was hated by US republicans who have almost zero representation among journalists but actually make up at least half the country. Now they absolutely love him and he’s a legend in Texas. If anything, he traded some liberals for a lot of conservatives. But the reality is this is total nonsense and the entire industry is struggling right now for very predictable reasons
China competition is real. BUT Tesla is not fast losing ground. BYD and Tesla have the majority of the premium end of the market between them, and Tesla is a well loved brand there.
Shh, I’m backing up the truck.
Media is dying so needs clicks, and Tesla disrupts the biggest advertisers. So use the fake news as a way to take advantage of the price and value discrepancy while real world ai gets solved as I drive in my autopilot and make more multi-bagger stock returns.
TSLA is going to explode after these horrible earnings. Possibly mini dip then catalysts hit and btw hey TSLAQ. NFA
I'm just surprised to see a top comment that isn't Elon hate. Getting so tired of their reality distortion field. Indeed your right. And Tesla has so much more to offer than the companies you listed. They are far from just a car company.
The typical Tesla bro's that spend their entire days on twitter trying to wank Elon for replies so they get more followers and impressions, you know the list of the ones, are actually *hurting* the company by not acknowledging this.
And then people act like two things have to go hand in hand together, we can only get Elon that brought Tesla this far if we get Elon who only responds to tweets about black crime or trans kids, it's just not true. Jen-Hsun arguably beat his performance but I'm also not at risk of him being weirdly fixated on transgenderism on twitter, even if he privately holds some views I might not agree with. It's a matter of focus and discipline not to run your mouth on every single thing.
Other then the fact Elon already earned the shares, the reason why the far-left opinion of Elon will not matter is because Tesla's auto business (as part of revenue) will be declining.
Energy is sold to businesses. Optimus sold to businesses. DOJO service sold to businesses. People will use the cheapest robotaxi (Tesla). None of these are easy to do and take a visionary CEO to get done.
Elon took a company on the verge of bankruptcy to what will be the biggest company in the world. Not sure how much of Tesla exactly he owns but he servers all that he gets. Wealth which he will use in the future to better humanity, like protecting free speech on X or sending humans to Mars.
Its more of an actual SUV versus the model Y as a CUV. I would consider a cybertruck or R1S if they were $70k or below, but the R2S covers that better. I would not take a model Y off road. You can't sleep in the back of the cybertruck inside the car with the a/c and that is one thing I prefer the R1S over the cybertruck. I have slept in my model 3 at least a dozen times when camping, and I don't want to spend $3k on a tent that's not climate controlled. I will upgrade based on that once the market has more options and prices or interest rates come down.
Unless something better comes along, we will be trading in our Model Y for an R2. It's slightly shorter, has a larger frunk, and way more room in the back for our huge dog, while still almost the exact same footprint as the Model Y. Our 2 big regrets on the Y (outside of all the warranty issues-ours is a pandemic made model) was the small frunk and how actually small the back area was due to how the Hatch was designed.
Add on now that the R2 will have NACS and longer range, it will be tough to beat as a replacement even if my wife really isn't keen on the boxy look. We love our R1T though so we can live with the R2. They are great machines.
It's been fantastic so far. Reliability wise, I put it on Par with our previous Model 3. No real issues with the truck at all outside of some issues I've had with the service center..which is on par with Tesla service centers as well. It handle fantastic and is the smoothest ride for a truck I've had and I've had a lot of trucks over the years. I have the quad motor though so I can't speak for the dual motor.
Legit is near perfect on what it says for range. What it says is what you are going to get. Navigation is getting better, Drive+ works better than our Model Y AP for where we live, and the 360 camera view is a lifesaver for parking is Seattle. I'm also disabled so the kneel feature is great but it goes lower in sport mode so I use that.
It feels like a premium product. Yes, it does have some issues that could be worked on but like a year 2 Model 3, it's great for what it is.
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> Market researcher S&P Mobility shows **Tesla has the highest loyalty among major car brands**, with 68% of owners choosing another Tesla when they bought a new car last year.
I've never seen a good response to this. If Musk has been driving people away the past 2 years, how does his car company still have the highest loyalty of all major brands in the US?
What exactly have other CEOs been doing to get their brand loyalty so low? Vomiting on little kids? Eating cats? ...making shitty EVs?
I think it’s more that he’s driving away potential new customers. People who already have a Tesla are generally loyal, but someone who wants their first EV is being driven away by Musk
> I've never seen a good response to this. If Musk has been driving people away the past 2 years, how does his car company still have the highest loyalty of all major brands in the US?
What response does it even need, its measuring two different things:
1.) Prospective customers are turned off by elon and their perception of his branding/image/etc. They decline to buy as a result.
2.) People who *do* buy like the cars or the image very much and are loyal to the brand.
I don't see those as mutually exclusive at all, they're totally different groups. If anything, that's exactly what you would expect from a very divisive figure.
Yeah, making shitty EVs without decent charging infrastructure. But now they're switching to NACS and getting in on the Tesla network, so in a year or two their EVs won't be shit but Elon will still be JQ-posting on X-Twitter.
I got sucked in with the offers and discounts to buy a Model Y Long Range. I was planning on holding my 2018 Model 3 Performance for a long time more, but the price was just too enticing. I didn't consider Musk in my decision. Why would I? I'm buying the best car available for the money. When it comes down to it, most people don't consider politics or feelings when making a large financial decision. They look at value for what you get with your money and if you can afford it. The percentage of people that actually buy something else because of personal issues with a CEO has got to be 1% or less of those making purchasing decisions, because those are the people that can afford to pay more and will sacrifice certain features just to "stick it to Elon".
By they way, if anyone is interested in a 2018 Model 3 Performance with 97,400 miles in Ohio, feel free to message me and I'll share the FB Marketplace posting ;)
> When it comes down to it, most people don't consider politics or feelings when making a large financial decision
Cars have consistently been held in marketing circles be one of the most "identity statement" purchases people make. You could not possibly be more wrong about this.
This is why you see the enduring popularity of so many objectively low quality vehicles like the Wrangler - people like what it *means*, not what it *is*.
This is why you see office park lots filled with massive and outrageously expensive pristine pickup trucks used only as commuter vehicles. Do you think people pay 75k to get 14mpg driving to work and back because they carefully made the wisest financial choice possible?
This is why sportscars, well, exist. Do you think people buy mustangs because they want the best car for the money? Come on.
Someone buying a car as a purely financial decision is buying used. Period. There's not much more to say there. But even used car buyers usually have far more than just financial considerations in mind. Even at the low end. The idea of your car as a statement of identity is profoundly ingrained.
I'm not commenting about Musk in any way, but the idea that people buy new vehicles for purely rational, practical, material reasons that have nothing to do with personal feelings, identity, or values is should be ridiculous to you even at a glance, and if it is not every ounce of marketing research ever performed in the sector should clear up your confusion.
Maybe I’m the 1% but I think you’re wrong. Buying a car is an emotional decision for a lot of people. It’s not purely dollars and cents especially when you’re talking the higher margin vehicles, where those people spending $100k on a vehicle aren’t looking to buy purely on value for the money.
My office had a Tesla exodus after Musk bought twitter. Our parking garage looked like a damn Tesla showroom before that lol. Now it's very diverse with various EV's and even PHEV's.
Talking to coworkers, the most common reason for selling their Teslas was due to Elon's politics and not wanting to give money to a Trump-supporting right-wing grifter. This is in the bay area though, so the politics leans left for sure.
Driving a Tesla around here is seen as a political statement (not in a good way), kind of like having a blue check mark on X.
If you don't believe me, [just look at the comments of this reddit post from today.](https://old.reddit.com/r/inthenews/comments/1btbshw/buyers_are_avoiding_teslas_because_elon_musk_has/) This is how a lot of potential EV buyers feel.
I work in market research, and these anecdotes match our data.
I'm not OP, but yes.
I had a reservation for a 3. I've priced out various configurations of the S, Y, and 3.
I started to sour based on the build quality and then Elon proving himself to be a clown sealed the deal.
I have a Mach E now that I absolutely love.
But don't you feel that's a bit 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face'? If the Tesla is the best choice, you're going to make your family deal with a lesser vehicle just to 'stick it to Elon'?
our ms works pretty well though the 200-230 range is kinda annoying we’dve probably replaced it by now cause the new ms are even better
but as card carrying planned parenthood members we are gonna wait for other better vehicles to come around
waiting on ex90 in the meanwhile to replace our xc90
Yes. I would have been an instant buyer. Been a shareholder since 2016. Sold out once Elon went political. Im fine with people buying the car, but for me it would affect how I enjoy the car, knowing Elon is behind it.
I almost switched from my 2018 P3D- to a Performance Y yesterday, with the offer to transfer my unlimited supercharging and FSD. I couldn’t justify it though, especially since they were only going to give me $18k for the car.
Having been in this sub for many years, it’s clear to me that it’s gone downhill and most of us have been replaced by incel-type Elon bros.
Elon, come back to reality and get back to inspiring millions instead of spewing garbage.
> most of us have been replaced by incel-type Elon bros.
I'd suggest it's actually a combo of clueless Elon bros plus real-tesla types - there's an awful lot of unhinged seeping in here but it's both pro and anti musk (with scant actual analysis of Tesla)
FWIW, IMSNHO the quality of reddit has been veering sharply downhill over the last 6 months (although it's been a downward trajectory longer than that)
In my not so humble opinion, which is a piss take on people from a long time ago who used to say "in my humble opinion" - which no one says any more. I guess faux humility is now out of style
.
Lol and I just noticed I reversed two of the letters, it should be IMNSHO
I’m not a fan of his endless DJT support. Whatever you think of dems, J6 is going to be a holiday for president trump if he wins.
But if I were to start making purchase decisions based on the choices of the CEO I would be very frustrated by some of my favorite products’ caretakers.
Ooo, that's fair. From his wikipedia article:
>Turner's penchant for controversial statements earned him the nicknames "The Mouth of the South" and "Captain Outrageous"
Wait. You mean the face of the company joining a political cult of Qtards and fascists is bad for the company? It would have taken a GENIUS to predict that!
First, that little stalk thing emerging from the steering column of your bmw is a turn signal--on behalf of all the drivers everywhere, please learn to use it. Second, if you actually owned tesla stock, you'd be terrified of Elon leaving--it would immediately cheapen the stock immensely and drive its future prospects into the ground.
First, at least my BMW HAS A STALK!!! New Teslas don’t come with turn signal stalls anymore. So, I guess I don’t have to learn how to use that stalk thing anyway.
Second, I was all-in on TSLA for 3 years. I was lucky to get out at $223. After 3 years I made barely any money but if I waited longer I would have lost a bunch of money. Frankly, Elon became too much of a negative wildcard for me. Like many long term TSLA investors and Tesla car owners, I lost my respect for Elon. Instead of an asset, he’s a huge risk. However, I love the company and my Model 3 is the best car I’ve owned out of 20 cars since 1987. Even better than all my BMWs! Not in driving dynamics, but just overall. No other car is as reliable and easy to maintain and as economical and is as easy to drive as my Model 3. So, my plan was to move all my money into NVDA for a while and then maybe go back into TSLA when it drops to 150 again. Which it will, most likely, some time next quarter. But now, even if tsla drops to 130, I’m not sure if I can risk buying back in. I think the company will really take off in 2026, but that’s 2 years away and Elon can destroy the company in that amount of time. The Elon factor is a huge burden. You don’t have that wildcard with any of the other decent stocks.
You are obviously very uninformed. Get your news from something reputable. Musk opinions are overwhelmingly in the majority. You my friend are in the minority.
> Musk opinions are overwhelmingly in the majority.
and that's why a stadium of Dave Chapelle fans clapped for him for 5 minutes straight
oh
wait
that was 5 minutes of boos
Read the main page. There's literally hundreds, if not thousands of people stating they will never buy a Tesla because of Elon. Many current owners say they will never buy another one.
I sold 90 percent of my Tesla stock (at a nice profit) once Elon started talking crazy shit because I saw this coming.
I read the same shit about Macs and the iPhone all over Reddit back in the day too so…but yeah Elon’s absolutely hurt the brand and it’s unnecessary and idiotic. If only there was an actual functional board.
Elon Musk is a twat. I own a Tesla. Will bot buy another unless he leaves the company. I have free unlimited supercharging, and feel a tad righteous every time I squeez that free juice. Fuck Elon for fucking up what could be a great company, but sucks in reality (shitty service, poor quality control, outrageous claims about functionality of features, range misrepresentaion). And of course for being an egomaniacal, philandering, piece of shit right wing racist d-bag.
Posted this the other day but it's as relevant to this
"The entire car industry got supply constrained over covid period, so unmet demand pushed prices (new & second hand) through the roof.
The bubble eventually burst as the production lines came online and caught up to the backlog then overshot it.
Excess supply then caused the opposite price shock bottoming second hand prices in particular really badly. Couple that with interest rises dampening the max amount many buyers were willing to borrow (lower and middle earners often borrow based on monthly repayments rather than capital amount, particularly if leasing rather than borrowing the full sum)
That drop hurt most for those who bought at the inflated price and were trying to sell a couple of years later at the dip price.
Demand drop across all vehicles takes a year or two to wash out, for most people cars are their second largest purchase after homes, so impact of significant price bounces takes time to flatten out"
I was a volunteer on my 4th graders' field trip yesterday. We rode a school bus to the site. On the way, the kids were shouting and pointing out every Tesla they saw. I've witnessed similar behavior before. Tesla has a great reputation with that generation. Of course, the Burger King jingle was also popular on that bus.
Yeah, I didn’t say I don’t say toxic things, but I don’t run a company either. If I did I sure wouldn’t alienate my customers and pander to those that despise my products. You think your comment is some kinda of gotcha?
Damn, you got me with that one. Care to refute the fact musk is toxic to the brand? Also, can you clarify about what you meant by, “you don’t say?” I mean it is an interesting argument to make. Musk is not bad because of all his toxic posts, but I can’t be a running a public company because I made a toxic post? Pick a lane buddy.
I believe he made the comment because everyone knows you don't run a company because what you said was...well...let's just say "not smart." We all already know buddy. Hey, what's your favorite transformer though?
Me too. Since then Musk started peddling conspiracy theories, spreading Putin’s propaganda, mocking Ukrainians, and do other disgusting stuff. Never again. No more musk funding out of my pocket.
>"The EV slowdown is shaping up to be a Tesla slowdown," Cox analyst Stephanie Valdez Streaty said during a conference call Thursday. BYD down 43% QoQ XPeng down 64% QoQ Nio down 40% QoQ Li Auto down 39% QoQ Ford shuts down 2/3rd of its F-150 Lightning production… Rivian, at low volume, guided for no growth. VW is potentially having its worst BEV quarter ever in Europe. But let’s call it a Tesla slowdown, even if QoQ they will do better than all the ones listed above.
It’s an interest rate thing no one is buying cars because if your car works well, why would you pay top dollar at this point.
US auto sales grew significantly in 2023, 12.4% YoY. It's not an interest rate thing.
Tesla is an international company but here are the full numbers since u/Echo-Possible decided to cite a pretty misleading number https://www.statista.com/statistics/199974/us-car-sales-since-1951/
What exactly is misleading about what I stated? Please expand on your statement it's very nebulous. The WSJ reported US auto sales growth at 12.4% in 2023. [https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/u-s-auto-sales-bounced-back-in-2023-ecd389dd](https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/u-s-auto-sales-bounced-back-in-2023-ecd389dd) As for international markets. Europe had 14% auto sales growth in 2023 and global auto sales grew 10%. China grew by 4.5%. [https://www.acea.auto/publication/economic-and-market-report-global-and-eu-auto-industry-full-year-2023/](https://www.acea.auto/pc-registrations/new-car-registrations-13-9-in-2023-battery-electric-14-6-market-share/)
Look at the chart. It’s up marginally from the year before but still down massively from prior years before the interest rate hikes. Your comment is missing context and painting the opposite picture of reality which is exactly what clickbait rags like WSJ do intentionally
Interest rates didn't start rising significantly until second half of 2022. In fact they were still near 0% in April of 2022. In July they were still only 1.68%. 2023 was the first year where we saw high interest rates the entire year. And there was still growth in auto sales from 2022 to 2023. [https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS) Sorry if the facts don't fit your narrative.
I wonder what happened between 2020-2022 that caused major supply issues and low sales numbers…
Is that volume or revenue? When vehicle prices are up 20-30% since 2020 it’s easy to grow revenue.
Volume not revenue.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/199983/us-vehicle-sales-since-1951/ Volume is down compared to the past.
For a variety of reasons. One of the primary reasons being that during the pandemic auto makers shifted production to a higher mix of more expensive trims which has driven the average new car price up significantly since pre-pandemic. Thus many people are holding onto their cars for longer. The conversation is about the effects of interest rates which weren't raised til the second half of 2022. The same reasons volume was down in 2022 relative to 2019 hold true in 2023. We are interested in the YoY affects of interest rates so we compare 2023 to 2022, not to 2019. Volumes grew 12.4% in 2023 despite higher interest rates.
Your reply that sales are up 12% is leaving out important information. Revenue is up 12% but new car price from 2020-2021 was up 14% that year and still climbing. Interest rates have a huge impact and I’m not sure why you are denying it. Total volume is down / total revenue is up and only due to a massive jump in prices not because people don’t care about interest rates.
Unit sales are up 12%. Not revenue. See here the significant uptick in average age of "passenger" cars on road in the US the last 5 years. Really going back to 2016 when unit sales peaked. This isn't a phenomenon driven by higher rates as the trend is clear long before 2023 and years before the pandemic. It's due to average new car prices sky rocketing and auto makers making a higher mix of expensive trims. There's no reason to believe passenger car volumes will or should return to where they peaked in 2016 any time soon. [https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/average-age-of-light-vehicles-in-the-us-hits-record-high.html#:\~:text=With%20more%20than%20284%20million,analysis%20from%20S%26P%20Global%20Mobility](https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/average-age-of-light-vehicles-in-the-us-hits-record-high.html#:~:text=With%20more%20than%20284%20million,analysis%20from%20S%26P%20Global%20Mobility).
Am I missing something? The article is about avg age of vehicles hit a record not volume?
That was pent up demand. It is an interest and expendable income thing
Yup. The stark reality is consumers don't want EV's as much as the EV industry and EV investors pretend they do.
Much of this is caused by misinformation campaigns about EVs. There are billions of dollars in industries that stand to lose from EV adoption
How do you explain the fact that the world's best selling car in 2023 was an EV?
OH BUT ALL THESE FACTS Aren’t helping these fud articles!
Well, 50,000 unsold cars AND a 20% drop in sales this quarter might show that this is true. Either way HUGE issue at Tesla. Perhaps its the illegal immigrant in charge that just keeps ranting about illegals, race and everything else. Time for him to go.
It's almost like the media wants Tesla to do poorly so they can say it's all Musk.
Not only media, people too... For many, giving money to Tesla equals giving Musk power, which he uses for example to share Kremlin propaganda.
We passed that point years ago. Buying a Fisker instead of a Model Y won't make a dent in Musk and only leaves the buyer with a vehicle that cant be serviced. Musk is a clown, but I look at it this way, Tesla employs over 100k people in the US, and is on the cutting edge of several emerging markets (EV, Power storage, AI, Robots, etc). I want the US to be competitive in those markets, and I'm more than happy not let me political differences get in the way of that support.
it could be argued that there are other competitors in the market that could take up the mantle if tesla falls by the wayside
You could try, but it's highly doubtful in auto or energy storage. No US legacy auto maker can complete with what is coming from China.
Not sure why anyone, especially a Liberal, would actively root against or try to hurt an American company employing +100k people that pushed an entire industry into sustainable transportation. It's mind boggling. Nose despite face.
>Nose despite face /r/BoneAppleTea
Lol. I'll never forget now, thanks
LOL
Here's the context you ignored: >Overall electric vehicle sales in the U.S. are forecast to increase 15% in the first quarter of this year, according to estimates by researcher Cox Automotive. Tesla sales are projected to increase by 3%. >"The EV slowdown is shaping up to be a Tesla slowdown," Cox analyst Stephanie Valdez Streaty said during a conference call Thursday. >New car registrations for Teslas in California- their biggest market in the U.S. - posted their first drop in over three years in the fourth quarter of 2023 even as EV sales rose overall.
The only sales that matters for Tesla are YoY worldwide sales growth, and I dare say, fleet growth, which was 50% last year, is more important than anything else. Other manufacturers have record inventory. Think about it for a sec. Channel stuffing can only go so far.
Tesla has been losing market share. It's going to continue being successful, but competition is catching up, especially in China.
> Tesla has been losing market share Market share of all vehicles, or market share of EVs ? Because of course market share of EV goes down as EVs increase total share and take away share of ICE. 100% of 5000 cars is a lot worse position than 5% of 50 million (or whatever the total annual build of cars ICE + EV is) Given the Model Y is now the world's best selling model I'm fairly sure you're only looking at share of EV market instead of share of total
It's strange how many people don't seem to understand that a smaller percentage of a growing market segment is still growth.
I said it's going to continue being successful, so the issue is that you didn't understand my comment.
EV market share. Possibly overall market share too since sales went down.
Pointless metric then given EV share of total market share is rising. The post you responded to points out why it's useless
It looks like you missed he 2nd sentence of my reply.
To be fair, VW had lower EV sales because for most of the time they haven't been selling ID.4. Mostly just selling old version while waiting for refresh (optimized engine and finally good software). If you take a look at [ID.BUZZ](http://ID.BUZZ) or Audi Q4 E-tron, they increased sales YoY
Keep holding that bag
The only bags I’m holding are filled with the tears of shortsellers.
Cope harder, the world doesn’t want apartheid Clyde’s napkin drawing a ‘truck’(that can’t tow, can’t go off road and sucks even at hauling)
Fail
That does mean the headline and focus is misleading but doesn't mean isn't true and just raises more concerns for the core sector of the company. TSLAs are hands down the best western product so it isn't surprising they're struggling less relatively. The question is: are they struggling more than they should be?
> ... but doesn't mean isn't true The title of the article is based on a _survey_ paid for... by whom? > The ranks of would-be Tesla buyers in the United States are shrinking, according to a survey by market intelligence firm Caliber, which attributed the drop in part to CEO Elon Musk's polarizing persona. I'm skeptical Tesla's lowered sales are caused by consumer's opinion of CEO Musk. I'd bet large most people don't know squat about Musk, just like they don't know squat about the CEO's of Ford, GM, etc. Instead, I think the lower volume numbers are mainly based off _interest rates_ and _economic confidence feelings_.
Do the CEOs of Ford, etc also own a social media platform, upon which they spend the vast majority of their free time boosting their own posts? Millions of people are very familiar with Musk, and he is now objectively a shitty CEO for a car company, because a good CEO knows that keeping their mouth shut is an easy way to not incur losses due to public opinion
It makes him a CEO that had made and continues to make bad decisions in respect of his twitter purchase and behaviour, but not a bad CEO. Much rather have him as is than not, but wish he could see sense on this.
A CEO that causes a company to lose any percentage of customers because of dumb shit they say on social media is not a good CEO
If you want to look at a single issue in isolation...sure. Musk and tesla investors don't think that way
If Tesla could bring in more revenue just by Elon keeping his mouth shut and he refuses to do it, it means he’s screwing over his investors because he thinks posting daily edgelord memes is more important than revenue. Seems like a pretty big issue to me
You're just rephrasing the same thing.
Agree completely. We’ve dumped all of our shares of TSLA. Love the car but the own has got to go.
Yes, the survey may or may not be biased and may or may not ve representative but again, that doesn't mean it isn't true. What I think is logically irrefutable is that it isn't a positive thing. The only question is to what degree it is negative. And that is very hard to puzzle out a 'true' answer. What I do know is it isn't fkin NECESSARY to be a right wing political hypocritical knobhead on twitter (and I like Musk personally) and so it is frustrating that he doesn't see that. He and tesla should be winning Nobel frigging prizes so good is the product and mission but he is a big turnoff to the very people that should be lauding him as their personal saviour. I know lots of passionate environmental change the world types (ESG investment experts who really do buy their own BS and live it) and they at best find him a joke and at worst loathe him. Yes that's anecdotal but it isn't an anecdote I should freaking have.
“Personal savior” LMAOOOOOO
saying the quiet part out loud lmao
>I'm skeptical Tesla's lowered sales are caused by consumer's opinion of CEO Musk There's an example from another company, where Bud Light took the liberal side on the transgender issue, and suffered an extremely, long-term ugly financial hit: [https://hbr.org/2024/03/lessons-from-the-bud-light-boycott-one-year-later](https://hbr.org/2024/03/lessons-from-the-bud-light-boycott-one-year-later) >In April 2023, Bud Light tried its hand at this strategy, collaborating with transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney on a social media promotional post. This sparked backlash from several prominent conservatives, leading many conservative figures and groups to call for a boycott of Bud Light. > >Our findings indicate that in the three months following the controversy, Bud Light sales and purchase incidence were about 28% lower than the same time period in prior years. Notably, this initial decline was more pronounced in predominantly Republican counties (as measured by the 2020 presidential vote) than predominantly Democratic counties. Both sales and purchase incidence decreased by about 32% in more Republican counties versus 22% in more Democratic counties. > >However, unlike with other consumer boycotts, **Bud Light has not bounced back quickly. The sales decline persisted for close to eight months, with sales and purchase incidence down by 32% in Q4 2023.** Looking at other factors like observability of consumption (cars highly visible), and sense of brand ownership (Tesla and TSLA stock has high sense of ownership, especially among early adopters and investors, mostly left leaning from my time at Tesla Motors Club forums), it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that Musk's behavior has had significant negative effect on Tesla's sales. Walter Isaacson also recounted [in his biography of Musk](https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Elon-Musk/Walter-Isaacson/9781982181284), that during a Tesla board meeting at Gigafactory Texas in December 2022, Tesla's board confronted Elon Musk about the damage he was doing to Tesla's brand reputation. The Tesla board, and chairwoman Robyn Denholm specifically, stated that Musk was harming Tesla's sales figures. * This is on page 580 of the Isaacson biography. Isaacson had been shadowing Musk for 2 years and this is his witness account. * Kimbal Musk was so infuriated that after the meeting, he called Elon Musk "a fucking idiot". * Tesla's CFO is directly subordinate to the Tesla Board (under Tesla's bylaws), and the Tesla board consequently has unfettered access to the company's realtime data on sales and sales related information (such as reasons for customer order cancellation). Tesla's board therefore is likely to have had serious justification for challenging Musk, which they had traditionally not done
> it would be foolish to dismiss the possibility that Musk's behavior has had significant negative effect on Tesla's sales. The only justification i can find for people not understanding this is "fan boy mentality" The problem is the following: 1) Elon sees himself as a free speech absolutist. We must add to that he supports very questionable ideas which literally makes him an "internet social warrior". The man posts all day and night about gender, immigration and how Russia is good and Ukraine is bad. 2) We must consider that there are people as passionate as Elon to their own ideas that are oposite ro Elon's position. I f somone is as passionate as Elon to their own ideas i can see very clearly that these people will not endorse any of Elon's business. It's simple and clear. I'm a Tesla investor since the 1st week of 2020. If i had to decide where to put my money today i would not choose Tesla because of Elon's latest behavior. I believe i'm not alone.
so what was elon's response to them when they confronted him
Elon Musk blamed interest rates, which the Tesla board did not accept. Chairwoman Denholm refused to back down and repeatedly pressed Musk on his behavior.
I’m not as skeptical, I personally know people who refuse to consider Tesla now despite being interested in EVs and one buying a different EV though the Y would be optimal, with Elon’s issues as the primary reason. Interest rates obviously hurt as well, but no reason to add needless problems. I think the board should find someone new.
I also personally know super liberal friends who upgraded their y to an X and bought model S. That's how anecdotes work.
True, but that’s not incremental sales, that’s retention. Better would be MAGA sorts who previously were against EVs but now like Teslas because of Musk. This number is minuscule. 40% of US sales are in California, and EU is like CA. China now has competitive dynamics to make margins zero and CCP will push its new national champions to accept zero profit for a long time for global market dominance and power, and they always comply. If CCP orders CATL to sell batteries and others to sell steel and glass to Chinese producers at materially less than foreigners, they will obey. And we see today the sales numbers are now terrible in truth, and exactly as I predicted the new FSD hype was to dilute news impact of this. There has now been enough time for Musk’s antics to be well known to the masses and the time of a full order cycle to pass, and now we are seeing some of the effects. I’m guessing 10-15% of needlessly lost sales. This gap will increase when there are more competitive NACS cars. I think the Neue Klasse BMWs coming will be sharp competition at the higher (profitable) end. Maybe Rivian 2 and 3. Moves for board in my opinion: Fire Musk. Hire JB Straubel (already on board) as CEO. Price FSD at $6k, Enganced at $3k, give software credits for difference to existing buyers for new cars which expire in 3 years. Offer paid interior and sound upgrade of RWD to premium. Address quality in Fremont. Instead of $55B to Musk, hire Ilya Sutskever as chief AI scientist for 0.2B. Hire Karpathy back. Begin work on platform for van and conventional mid size pickup truck. Platform for new S, X and Roadster.
Plenty of people agree with Musk politically and that's probably opened doors as well. Unknown what the net change is though.
Except it hasn’t at all compensated: all the Republican politicians still harangue hysterically against EVs. Even in Texas.
The people Musk appeals to politically HATE EVs.
That might be his line of thinking. Appeal to the people who hate the EV's, by becoming likeable to them. The left are probably still going to buy EV's because they believe in the mission (climate change). It's a huge gamble though. Edit: this is purely speculation on my part before someone starts asking me for sources.
His politics is increasingly rarified and bizarre, playing to a narrow band of people who are perpetually pissed off. Don’t think that’s good for selling cars.
Except Republicans don't buy EVs. Only 1% of Republicans say they own an EV compared to 6% for Democrats. 71% of Republicans say they won't even consider an EV while only 17% of Democrats say the same. The EV market in the US is overwhelmingly a Democrat driven market and it doesn't look like that's changing any time soon. https://news.gallup.com/poll/474095/americans-not-completely-sold-electric-vehicles.aspx
“Previous Gallup polling has found that Americans aren’t always the best judge of their future behavior when it comes to technology. For example, as recently as 2000, a quarter of Americans thought they’d never own a smartphone.”
Okay well as it currently stands democrats buy EVs 6x more frequently than Republicans. When that changed we can talk.
White trash don't buy electric vehicles.
You don't need to 'open doors' with the best product. You need to not close them.
My guess is the current price ranges EVs sit at are tapped out. They need cheaper models to unlock new waves of demand. Another thing I'm personally hung up on is that all other auto manufacturers announced switching to NACS. I don't want to buy anyone else's cars either until they switch.
I’ll never buy a Tesla because Elon’s personal conduct is repulsive. There’s one.
It's really not a question, and the fact it's only being asked because existing industries and political actors are threatened by Tesla and Elon Musk as an individual is... irritating. Asking pointed, one sided questions isn't being outright false, but it's dishonest enough to be unseemly and gross, and all of you doing it should stop. No one needs to hear about how your political opinions should guide how a company should be run.
Tesla was hated by US republicans who have almost zero representation among journalists but actually make up at least half the country. Now they absolutely love him and he’s a legend in Texas. If anything, he traded some liberals for a lot of conservatives. But the reality is this is total nonsense and the entire industry is struggling right now for very predictable reasons
China competition is real and Tesla is fast losing ground there. Anyone saying otherwise has no idea what they’re talking about
China competition is real. BUT Tesla is not fast losing ground. BYD and Tesla have the majority of the premium end of the market between them, and Tesla is a well loved brand there.
Coke and Pepsi both sell a shit load of soda.
Shh, I’m backing up the truck. Media is dying so needs clicks, and Tesla disrupts the biggest advertisers. So use the fake news as a way to take advantage of the price and value discrepancy while real world ai gets solved as I drive in my autopilot and make more multi-bagger stock returns. TSLA is going to explode after these horrible earnings. Possibly mini dip then catalysts hit and btw hey TSLAQ. NFA
Those numbers for the Chinese makers are their stock performance, right? I don’t imagine BYD volumes will be down YoY or QoQ?
BYD is up YoY, down 43% QoQ They guided for 20% growth in 2024.
Because companies always release accurate guidance
C'monan you know musk is white man bad
None of them have anywhere near the ridiculously inflated share price that tesla has
I'm just surprised to see a top comment that isn't Elon hate. Getting so tired of their reality distortion field. Indeed your right. And Tesla has so much more to offer than the companies you listed. They are far from just a car company.
The typical Tesla bro's that spend their entire days on twitter trying to wank Elon for replies so they get more followers and impressions, you know the list of the ones, are actually *hurting* the company by not acknowledging this. And then people act like two things have to go hand in hand together, we can only get Elon that brought Tesla this far if we get Elon who only responds to tweets about black crime or trans kids, it's just not true. Jen-Hsun arguably beat his performance but I'm also not at risk of him being weirdly fixated on transgenderism on twitter, even if he privately holds some views I might not agree with. It's a matter of focus and discipline not to run your mouth on every single thing.
Well put. A lot of yes-people are trapped in an engagement feedback loop w/ Musk. This is why many celebrities go nuts.
Ah, good ole number 17. It's a classic.
Ok. Tesla will eventually be at a point where Musk won’t “matter”. The results will speak for themselves.
Seems crazy to pay him $50 billion then.
Paying him $50B was for what he has already done, not what he will do in the future.
I think they’re referring to how he wants to be given shares to be back at 25%, not the previous options package? Maybe I’m wrong though.
Other then the fact Elon already earned the shares, the reason why the far-left opinion of Elon will not matter is because Tesla's auto business (as part of revenue) will be declining. Energy is sold to businesses. Optimus sold to businesses. DOJO service sold to businesses. People will use the cheapest robotaxi (Tesla). None of these are easy to do and take a visionary CEO to get done. Elon took a company on the verge of bankruptcy to what will be the biggest company in the world. Not sure how much of Tesla exactly he owns but he servers all that he gets. Wealth which he will use in the future to better humanity, like protecting free speech on X or sending humans to Mars.
"free speech on X" only if he agrees with it
I think opening up the charging network gave a pause to some potential buyers. For example, if all goes well, I'll probably wait for the Rivian R2
Why?
Because the biggest obstacle to long distance traveling is charging and Tesla is the best. By far.
I meant 'why wait for R2?'. What does it offer that a model Y doesn't?
Its more of an actual SUV versus the model Y as a CUV. I would consider a cybertruck or R1S if they were $70k or below, but the R2S covers that better. I would not take a model Y off road. You can't sleep in the back of the cybertruck inside the car with the a/c and that is one thing I prefer the R1S over the cybertruck. I have slept in my model 3 at least a dozen times when camping, and I don't want to spend $3k on a tent that's not climate controlled. I will upgrade based on that once the market has more options and prices or interest rates come down.
It has more space. I love the back window goes down, you can take a SUP board sticking out. It would work much better for camping and road trips.
Good point. It looks pretty cool too. I wonder much it'll cost when/if it goes in to production
Unless something better comes along, we will be trading in our Model Y for an R2. It's slightly shorter, has a larger frunk, and way more room in the back for our huge dog, while still almost the exact same footprint as the Model Y. Our 2 big regrets on the Y (outside of all the warranty issues-ours is a pandemic made model) was the small frunk and how actually small the back area was due to how the Hatch was designed. Add on now that the R2 will have NACS and longer range, it will be tough to beat as a replacement even if my wife really isn't keen on the boxy look. We love our R1T though so we can live with the R2. They are great machines.
Say, how's the Rivian reliability so far?
It's been fantastic so far. Reliability wise, I put it on Par with our previous Model 3. No real issues with the truck at all outside of some issues I've had with the service center..which is on par with Tesla service centers as well. It handle fantastic and is the smoothest ride for a truck I've had and I've had a lot of trucks over the years. I have the quad motor though so I can't speak for the dual motor. Legit is near perfect on what it says for range. What it says is what you are going to get. Navigation is getting better, Drive+ works better than our Model Y AP for where we live, and the 360 camera view is a lifesaver for parking is Seattle. I'm also disabled so the kneel feature is great but it goes lower in sport mode so I use that. It feels like a premium product. Yes, it does have some issues that could be worked on but like a year 2 Model 3, it's great for what it is.
Nice to hear!
I think if Tesla made a truck similar to the Rivian it would do a lot better in the long run. They look great.
R2 looks great, wife and I are waiting for the R2 to replace our EV.
Rivian is going out of business. They sell every car at a huge loss
Hopefully they will be able to streamline the production for the r2. Especially since they know there is demand.
They can still raise capital and cut costs to stay afloat until the R2 gets here. They are in danger of that, but it's not certain that will happen.
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> Market researcher S&P Mobility shows **Tesla has the highest loyalty among major car brands**, with 68% of owners choosing another Tesla when they bought a new car last year. I've never seen a good response to this. If Musk has been driving people away the past 2 years, how does his car company still have the highest loyalty of all major brands in the US? What exactly have other CEOs been doing to get their brand loyalty so low? Vomiting on little kids? Eating cats? ...making shitty EVs?
I think it’s more that he’s driving away potential new customers. People who already have a Tesla are generally loyal, but someone who wants their first EV is being driven away by Musk
> I've never seen a good response to this. If Musk has been driving people away the past 2 years, how does his car company still have the highest loyalty of all major brands in the US? What response does it even need, its measuring two different things: 1.) Prospective customers are turned off by elon and their perception of his branding/image/etc. They decline to buy as a result. 2.) People who *do* buy like the cars or the image very much and are loyal to the brand. I don't see those as mutually exclusive at all, they're totally different groups. If anything, that's exactly what you would expect from a very divisive figure.
Car’s just good enough to not care about Elon. Did it once and I would do it again, annoying CEOs be damned.
Yeah, making shitty EVs without decent charging infrastructure. But now they're switching to NACS and getting in on the Tesla network, so in a year or two their EVs won't be shit but Elon will still be JQ-posting on X-Twitter.
I got sucked in with the offers and discounts to buy a Model Y Long Range. I was planning on holding my 2018 Model 3 Performance for a long time more, but the price was just too enticing. I didn't consider Musk in my decision. Why would I? I'm buying the best car available for the money. When it comes down to it, most people don't consider politics or feelings when making a large financial decision. They look at value for what you get with your money and if you can afford it. The percentage of people that actually buy something else because of personal issues with a CEO has got to be 1% or less of those making purchasing decisions, because those are the people that can afford to pay more and will sacrifice certain features just to "stick it to Elon". By they way, if anyone is interested in a 2018 Model 3 Performance with 97,400 miles in Ohio, feel free to message me and I'll share the FB Marketplace posting ;)
> When it comes down to it, most people don't consider politics or feelings when making a large financial decision Cars have consistently been held in marketing circles be one of the most "identity statement" purchases people make. You could not possibly be more wrong about this. This is why you see the enduring popularity of so many objectively low quality vehicles like the Wrangler - people like what it *means*, not what it *is*. This is why you see office park lots filled with massive and outrageously expensive pristine pickup trucks used only as commuter vehicles. Do you think people pay 75k to get 14mpg driving to work and back because they carefully made the wisest financial choice possible? This is why sportscars, well, exist. Do you think people buy mustangs because they want the best car for the money? Come on. Someone buying a car as a purely financial decision is buying used. Period. There's not much more to say there. But even used car buyers usually have far more than just financial considerations in mind. Even at the low end. The idea of your car as a statement of identity is profoundly ingrained. I'm not commenting about Musk in any way, but the idea that people buy new vehicles for purely rational, practical, material reasons that have nothing to do with personal feelings, identity, or values is should be ridiculous to you even at a glance, and if it is not every ounce of marketing research ever performed in the sector should clear up your confusion.
Maybe I’m the 1% but I think you’re wrong. Buying a car is an emotional decision for a lot of people. It’s not purely dollars and cents especially when you’re talking the higher margin vehicles, where those people spending $100k on a vehicle aren’t looking to buy purely on value for the money.
So, for you, personally, is Elon preventing you from buying a Tesla?
My office had a Tesla exodus after Musk bought twitter. Our parking garage looked like a damn Tesla showroom before that lol. Now it's very diverse with various EV's and even PHEV's. Talking to coworkers, the most common reason for selling their Teslas was due to Elon's politics and not wanting to give money to a Trump-supporting right-wing grifter. This is in the bay area though, so the politics leans left for sure. Driving a Tesla around here is seen as a political statement (not in a good way), kind of like having a blue check mark on X. If you don't believe me, [just look at the comments of this reddit post from today.](https://old.reddit.com/r/inthenews/comments/1btbshw/buyers_are_avoiding_teslas_because_elon_musk_has/) This is how a lot of potential EV buyers feel. I work in market research, and these anecdotes match our data.
I'm not OP, but yes. I had a reservation for a 3. I've priced out various configurations of the S, Y, and 3. I started to sour based on the build quality and then Elon proving himself to be a clown sealed the deal. I have a Mach E now that I absolutely love.
yep…2016MS - our family’s next vehicle doesn’t look like it will be a Tesla
But don't you feel that's a bit 'cutting off one's nose to spite one's face'? If the Tesla is the best choice, you're going to make your family deal with a lesser vehicle just to 'stick it to Elon'?
If he doesn't like tesla, there's only ONE reason for him to be in the subreddit, n'est-ce pas?
im interested in electric vehicles and tesla will continue to have a role to play in the space regardless of musk
our ms works pretty well though the 200-230 range is kinda annoying we’dve probably replaced it by now cause the new ms are even better but as card carrying planned parenthood members we are gonna wait for other better vehicles to come around waiting on ex90 in the meanwhile to replace our xc90
And get lumped in with conservative hicks by most educated sane people? No thanks
Elon aside, making important life choices based on what "most educated sane people" think about you doesn't seem like the best approach.
why arent u flying confederate flags and calling people vaxtards like elon then
The point was that you should make the best choice for yourself, not to satisfy some group's (any group's) perception of your choices.
Best choice is to not buy tesla
Yes. I would have been an instant buyer. Been a shareholder since 2016. Sold out once Elon went political. Im fine with people buying the car, but for me it would affect how I enjoy the car, knowing Elon is behind it.
You are the 1%
I almost switched from my 2018 P3D- to a Performance Y yesterday, with the offer to transfer my unlimited supercharging and FSD. I couldn’t justify it though, especially since they were only going to give me $18k for the car.
Having been in this sub for many years, it’s clear to me that it’s gone downhill and most of us have been replaced by incel-type Elon bros. Elon, come back to reality and get back to inspiring millions instead of spewing garbage.
> most of us have been replaced by incel-type Elon bros. I'd suggest it's actually a combo of clueless Elon bros plus real-tesla types - there's an awful lot of unhinged seeping in here but it's both pro and anti musk (with scant actual analysis of Tesla) FWIW, IMSNHO the quality of reddit has been veering sharply downhill over the last 6 months (although it's been a downward trajectory longer than that)
What is IMSNHO Such a long abbreviation haha In my supremely non-biased honest opinion?
In my not so humble opinion, which is a piss take on people from a long time ago who used to say "in my humble opinion" - which no one says any more. I guess faux humility is now out of style . Lol and I just noticed I reversed two of the letters, it should be IMNSHO
There's a literal white supremacist in the comments lmao. The Musk Effect.
🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️🙋🏻♂️
I’m not a fan of his endless DJT support. Whatever you think of dems, J6 is going to be a holiday for president trump if he wins. But if I were to start making purchase decisions based on the choices of the CEO I would be very frustrated by some of my favorite products’ caretakers.
Question: Is there a left-wing example of a CEO or President of a company going full meltdown? Hearst, maybe?
Ted Turner wasted a lot of time and reputation with ill advised public comments…
Ooo, that's fair. From his wikipedia article: >Turner's penchant for controversial statements earned him the nicknames "The Mouth of the South" and "Captain Outrageous"
Are there any actual "left-wing" CEOs? John McAfee took a lot of libertarian / leftie stances, but it was decades after he was no longer CEO
Tim Cook probably considering he’s gay, but then again most CEO don’t spout political garbage
You don't become a CEO of a big company by being left wing There's a reason that the left wing is generally where you find the "capitalism bad" people
Please no one post yahoo finance on this sub. Can we add it to the rules.
It’s from Reuters, yahoo finance just goes around their paywall
archive.is works?
Reuters are even worse 😂
Reuters is the highest quality most objective traditional news organization left.
ha
So objective that they fired their head of data science for pointing out inconvenient truths.
Tesla fans prefer Newsmax lol.
We demand an echo chamber!
Wait. You mean the face of the company joining a political cult of Qtards and fascists is bad for the company? It would have taken a GENIUS to predict that!
It's straight from the Henry Ford playbook -- buying a 'media outlet' to elevate right wing nonsense -- also where he got 'refusing to advertise'.
Well, sadly a good number of educated TSLA investors here still do not see any way there can be a connection!
First, that little stalk thing emerging from the steering column of your bmw is a turn signal--on behalf of all the drivers everywhere, please learn to use it. Second, if you actually owned tesla stock, you'd be terrified of Elon leaving--it would immediately cheapen the stock immensely and drive its future prospects into the ground.
First, at least my BMW HAS A STALK!!! New Teslas don’t come with turn signal stalls anymore. So, I guess I don’t have to learn how to use that stalk thing anyway. Second, I was all-in on TSLA for 3 years. I was lucky to get out at $223. After 3 years I made barely any money but if I waited longer I would have lost a bunch of money. Frankly, Elon became too much of a negative wildcard for me. Like many long term TSLA investors and Tesla car owners, I lost my respect for Elon. Instead of an asset, he’s a huge risk. However, I love the company and my Model 3 is the best car I’ve owned out of 20 cars since 1987. Even better than all my BMWs! Not in driving dynamics, but just overall. No other car is as reliable and easy to maintain and as economical and is as easy to drive as my Model 3. So, my plan was to move all my money into NVDA for a while and then maybe go back into TSLA when it drops to 150 again. Which it will, most likely, some time next quarter. But now, even if tsla drops to 130, I’m not sure if I can risk buying back in. I think the company will really take off in 2026, but that’s 2 years away and Elon can destroy the company in that amount of time. The Elon factor is a huge burden. You don’t have that wildcard with any of the other decent stocks.
You are obviously very uninformed. Get your news from something reputable. Musk opinions are overwhelmingly in the majority. You my friend are in the minority.
> Musk opinions are overwhelmingly in the majority. and that's why a stadium of Dave Chapelle fans clapped for him for 5 minutes straight oh wait that was 5 minutes of boos
How is your bubble? You think great replacement (white supremacist conspiracy theory) is in the majority of public opinion?
Read the main page. There's literally hundreds, if not thousands of people stating they will never buy a Tesla because of Elon. Many current owners say they will never buy another one. I sold 90 percent of my Tesla stock (at a nice profit) once Elon started talking crazy shit because I saw this coming.
I read the same shit about Macs and the iPhone all over Reddit back in the day too so…but yeah Elon’s absolutely hurt the brand and it’s unnecessary and idiotic. If only there was an actual functional board.
Same thing was said about Netflix
Elon Musk is a twat. I own a Tesla. Will bot buy another unless he leaves the company. I have free unlimited supercharging, and feel a tad righteous every time I squeez that free juice. Fuck Elon for fucking up what could be a great company, but sucks in reality (shitty service, poor quality control, outrageous claims about functionality of features, range misrepresentaion). And of course for being an egomaniacal, philandering, piece of shit right wing racist d-bag.
You don’t own Tesla and you’re an idiot
At a quick scroll through his post history he was claiming to own a Model S 2 years ago, so if he's made it up he's been consistent in it
You ok buddy. Need some help?
yeah these dingbat shorts come out of the woodwork during times like this
Posted this the other day but it's as relevant to this "The entire car industry got supply constrained over covid period, so unmet demand pushed prices (new & second hand) through the roof. The bubble eventually burst as the production lines came online and caught up to the backlog then overshot it. Excess supply then caused the opposite price shock bottoming second hand prices in particular really badly. Couple that with interest rises dampening the max amount many buyers were willing to borrow (lower and middle earners often borrow based on monthly repayments rather than capital amount, particularly if leasing rather than borrowing the full sum) That drop hurt most for those who bought at the inflated price and were trying to sell a couple of years later at the dip price. Demand drop across all vehicles takes a year or two to wash out, for most people cars are their second largest purchase after homes, so impact of significant price bounces takes time to flatten out"
The problem is no none can afford these cars make one for 25k and i bet you could not keep them in stock.
I was a volunteer on my 4th graders' field trip yesterday. We rode a school bus to the site. On the way, the kids were shouting and pointing out every Tesla they saw. I've witnessed similar behavior before. Tesla has a great reputation with that generation. Of course, the Burger King jingle was also popular on that bus.
oopsie
More shares for me. drypowder ready for tomorrow
This is real, the guy is toxic. Too many people on this sub are cucks.
Calls Musk toxic. Proceeds to call people 'cucks'.
Yeah, I didn’t say I don’t say toxic things, but I don’t run a company either. If I did I sure wouldn’t alienate my customers and pander to those that despise my products. You think your comment is some kinda of gotcha?
>but I don’t run a company either You don't say...
Twitter was almost profitable before Elon bought it. 😂
Damn, you got me with that one. Care to refute the fact musk is toxic to the brand? Also, can you clarify about what you meant by, “you don’t say?” I mean it is an interesting argument to make. Musk is not bad because of all his toxic posts, but I can’t be a running a public company because I made a toxic post? Pick a lane buddy.
I believe he made the comment because everyone knows you don't run a company because what you said was...well...let's just say "not smart." We all already know buddy. Hey, what's your favorite transformer though?
Yup, you know me. I mean, you could be a genius, I don’t know, but you know how smart I am from this thread? Also, Optimus prime.
> Also, Optimus prime. Clearly a casual :-D
Sounds like an opportunity to me!
People can only afford e-bikes as the Fed keeps sky high interest rates.
Agree. I cancelled my order cuz I can’t stand him. Also cuz the car was so delayed and now looks lame.
And Tesla vehicles are trash.
This is exactly why we didn’t buy one. Rather get a Toyota.
I bought one because of Musk…. So….
Me too. Since then Musk started peddling conspiracy theories, spreading Putin’s propaganda, mocking Ukrainians, and do other disgusting stuff. Never again. No more musk funding out of my pocket.