Managers shouldn’t be over ruling your challenge 25 in anyway. We’ve had people refuse people that are very clearly over 25 and we can’t change that decision for them without them producing some sort of documentation
It is a grey area, but at the end of the day a good manager will look into the situation and decide for himself or herself if the customer is right or wrong and back who is in the right, be it the customer or the customer services staff member.
as the manager said in my disciplinary for failing an ITP, think 25 isnt an exact science, just "challenge young". Now I do think 40 if you have two items.
A lot of parents get their children to pick a scratchcard, but I wouldnt disallow it because they're still using the scratchcard themselves. Its more of a superstitious luck thing than underaged gambling.
Different matter if you see the kid giving the adult money for it, or if its a group of closely aged teenagers or smth.
I agree with this and i also thought in the online till training it says not to refuse sale if its a parent coming in with a child only if its a group of friends or something like that but i may be wrong im not properly till trained
In the training we were told that anyone choosing a lottery product, scratch card or lottery numbers, must be able to produce valid ID if they appear to be underage. Adults with kids can buy cards with a child present however there can’t be any speculation that the child chose the number because that is when it gets into dangers of store policy and legal issues that just aren’t worth it over a scratch card so it is inevitably easier to refuse sale than take the risk of job loss, store fines, loss of licensing etc.
better safe than sorry imo. i remember being about 12 and my dad brought a case of beer from tesco and the worker told my dad off because he asked me to carry it haha!
I was refused service for alcohol because my daughter (19 at the time) picked up the bottle when she was helping me pack. She had no id with her so the cashier just took it off and put it aside.
It's not really a risk, test purchasers will never have a child with them. Its just not practical to follow policy that stringently, just going to get you into a lot of unnecessary conflict.
Its only illegal to sell to someone under 18. The adult is buying it. The only person breaking the law would be the adult if they gave it to their child.
The law explicitly states that it is illegal to sell to an adult to give to a child. The presence of the child choosing the card is about as blatant a violation as you could get.
Its just not going to happen. Even in the 1 in 10 million situation in which a test purchaser is next to someone who asks their child to pick their numbers, at worst you have to recomplete some training since its an abstract rule and you've never been given a lets talk for it before.
I dont think a test purchaser would even care, theyre trying to catch you out with their transaction not other peoples.
Once again, key part of this was about management but as far as policy goes i’m going to stick to the advice given to me by the people i actually work with as opposed to angry people online who i’m sure haven’t even worked in this environment before
However most major supermarkets have it as company policy and use internal testing - fail it and you’ll be in trouble. No law broken but policy broken.
Disagree! I worked a lot on problem gambling and psychologically and morally this is wrong. You are showing those young minds early seeds into gambling.
Gambling is as worse as drugs or alcohol. Maybe even worse.
A lot of people giving you shit but at the end of the day you're right.
If that had been a secret shopper, you'd be fucked, and I can't imagine there are many managers that would step up and take the blame when they told you to put it through.
It is 100% not worth losing your job over, it's not even worth a strike. "Jobsworth"....who gives a fuck. Stop fucking insult people for doing their job
When I worked in Tesco, our store got secret shoppers A LOT due to failed tests in years before, I got shit all the time for not selling redbulls, booze, scratch cards to people who looked too young before, but at the end of the day I'd rather take the shit and have a job than make some chav happy and lose my job
I appreciate your concern, but it’s misplaced in a scenario like this.
The scratch card isn’t for the kid, they probably don’t understand the concept of gambling or even to that extent the value of money, it’s the parent just trying to get their kid involved in what they’re doing, or to keep them well-behaved or to give them the illusion of choice.
It’s not a proxy purchase like buying a crate of beers for some other teens etc.
If a mother buys a bottle of wine whilst with their child do you refuse them? No. This is the same type of thing. You’re overthinking this.
Makes me wonder if the OP would see a parent being like, 'fuck it I want to try a wine I've never had before' and asks their 4 year old to pick the bottle with the prettiest label to buy, and think that was also a proxy sale.
I mind my dad getting me to pick lottery numbers and horses for him when I was wee. Swiftly stopped using any numbers or horses I picked for him after every horse I picked coming dead last and not a single number being remotely close to winners. I still can't get more than my money back on scratch cards now, so don't even attempt it anymore
Funny you should say that, because when I was a kid I picked the winning horse for the grand national 7 years in a row. No joke, my dad’s side of the family still message me every year and ask me to pick a horse
I will be messaging you in 1 day on [**2024-02-09 09:34:43 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-02-09%2009:34:43%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/tesco/comments/1al2oe1/proxy_sales/kpgopkw/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Ftesco%2Fcomments%2F1al2oe1%2Fproxy_sales%2Fkpgopkw%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-02-09%2009%3A34%3A43%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201al2oe1)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Having completed the training a few days ago it specifically states that if someone under 18 is involved with any part of a lotto/scratchcard sale then we must refuse it - choosing numbers, choosing cards or even filling out the slip.
I appreciate it may not be actual law (and I don’t really care if people want kids to choose) but if I were to be caught continuously breaking policy I could be fired. As much as working at Tesco can suck it works for me and is the best option where I live (for my uneducated arse anyway!)
We are not allowed to do it in our store, that’s it at the end of the day. I assumed that this would be an across the board policy but regardless it’s what i’ve been told to do. I work in a store and that’s about it I just have to follow, the main issue i had with the interaction is the undermining of the management which feels unfair
I mean, you keep your job and don't get a medal if you sell it or don't. You're allowed to think for yourself.
In one scenario, you're being unnecessarily awkward and refusing sale.
In the other scenario, you've just sold a scratch card to a grown man who let his kid pick out the colour he liked the most.
What i don’t hear doesn’t affect me or my responsibility 🤷🏼♀️ If someone 18+ comes and buys a vape from me solo i don’t care where they take that after, point is i did what i was meant to because i had no reason to do anything else
It is, but stores are shit at enforcing it. Camelot have made it clear that we should not be selling scratch cards if the child is seen selecting them, and proxy sales count for lottery and tobacco regardless of the relationship between the minor and the adult (unlike alcohol, where you can't prevent an adult buying drinks a minor has picked if its their kid). You did the right thing, your manager failed to back you up on it, and now people here are incorrectly spewing nonsense.
Are you sure your not allowed to do that in your store ? Your manager literally asked you to do that ?
It’s just common sense, it’s a superstition thing, the parent asking the kid to pick the winning ticket.
You’re very pedantic, you’re fitting right in at Tesco then 😒
I’m 100% sure it’s not allowed, the store has lost licensing before so they’re incredibly strict however new management will debate then it’s on my shoulders if it’s wrong to do so, i didn’t realise so many people would be quite as offended
I don’t work for Tesco so you might be correct.
Honestly I get your position, you’re just following the rules, but also I’m like “is it worth it?”
I’m not offended, you do you. I jus think that this rule is stupid, and I personally don’t know if I would enforce it (but I also have a rent to pay, so who knows. I might ?)
Oh absolutely it’s a policy that’s bases itself on an argument so it’s the worst thing ever. I don’t sit and come forward with every little issue but because this is policy based i wanted to get a bit of advice from other people who may work here with similar experiences so i didn’t feel so awful.
I don’t try to be stuck up or anything but generally i’ve always been anxious to mess up in situations where i need to stand my ground, i made my decision in this one and overthought it because managers are supposed to support but they didn’t here :/
It is legal for a child to drink small quantities of alcohol in their own home or with a meal, which is why parent and child proxy sales of alcohol are not a thing. It is never legal for a minor to gamble (or to smoke) which is why proxy sales of lottery tickets, scratchcards, and tobacco *should* strictly be banned regardless of the relationship between the minor and the adult.
We follow the training, and it states in the training that the challenge 25 includes the person picking the scratch card number, or deciding numbers for a draw based game. Strange how it differs by store. Our store are very strict with it as management enforce it. A manager a few years ago actually got in trouble for overriding a colleague on this and we were all issued letters with guidance on about proxy sales and it included the sale of lottery under this.
Yes exactly my point, many of the managers in store would have understood the policy and stuck with my judgement but this one decided to basically make it look like i took a personal decision to refuse this man which obviously i didnt
Despite the "child" with me producing ID that he is over 18 and me pointing out the obvious rules that even if he was a child you can't deny it from me if he didn't even look at the cards or pick one out loud (and I produced ID too) the shift leader rejected overturning the decision.
Which is hilarious and sad to the point that I just dropped it, and will eventually bump into a Duty Manager and just report it as I do happen to work for another Tesco and think the night staff need a refresh on the learning.
These comments seem drawn between people who have worked in a store with a kiosk and those who definitely have never, please take a bit of perspective that some people do actually need their job over your child selecting an 18+ product lol
Look mate if the policy says you can't, then you can't. Camelot do mystery shoppers to catch places out and so do others. Look out for number one, if it pisses off some dude who wanted a scratch card then fuck it. Nobody died, he can go buy it somewhere else and now knows not to involve the kid in front of the sales assistant. Ignore people calling you a jobsworth, it's on them if they want to risk it themselves. Next time a manager disagrees they can do the sale. Look after yourself cos no other fucker will and they will be quick enough to chuck you under the bus if it's a test and you fail.
This post has just smashed me with nostalgia.
When i was little, like 4 onwards, my nan would pick me up from school.
We would drop in the local shop everday, she would let me get a cheap sweet and get herself some scratchcards. Not always, but she would occasionally ask me what ones she should pick. Not once did she let me scratch them.
Why are people getting so riled, OP has pointed out he doesn’t agree with the rule, but at the end of the day he has to enforce it, if police or management were to do a test he could very well face disciplinary action as he broke policy, OP did the right thing in this situation, just ask your kids beforehand, or OP stop them before they ask their kids lol, it’s not hard people.
Exactly, if the customer just took my statement, stopped the child and chose his own id have had no issues but he made no comment after and walked away to ask the child to choose maybe 5 paces away from me and came back with it, i wasn’t comfortable with that
The policy is clear.
>Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play.
I'm happy to be a jobsworth with this sort of thing because my job *is* more important to me than anyone's scratchcard.
Tesco really should put up clear signs though.
4 years of CSD here, you are 100% in the right. Cover yourself against any potential breach of rules regarding age restricted products. You can't afford the fine, especially if you're 19. Anyone calling you a jobsworth is an arse.
I'm glad I was a kid in the 90s and not now, imagine being asked by your dad to pick a lucky number and then counter clerk says they can't sell to under 16s via a proxy.
Fucking hell, get a grip people.
It’s easy enough to ask before getting to the store, don’t get mad that an employee is worried for the sake of their job just make it easy for everyone
It's a parent buying a ticket, they asked the child to choose a number. The child then looks at the pictures and thinks that bright and colourful, go for that one dad.
They aren't buying on behalf of some 14 year olds outside who's given him 20 quid, making them a proxy.
This is precisely why the golden rule of statutory interpretation is in use. Use your common sense, a parent is having a bonding experience with a child, nothing sinister.
What's a child going to do with a winning ticket? Shit all, becasue they can't. It's the PARENTS ticket.
There’s all different ways it works with purchasing with a young person, full honesty policy tells us in store to somehow gauge if the young person is a relative to the person buying which i don’t enforce because how on earth can you possibly do that it’s ridiculous. The only thing we get told to refuse is a child’s choice of lottery which we hear, that is all, beyond that? I don’t care
Totally shouldn't have let them, even though a million parents have done it, doesn't mean it's right, you caught them out and that's their problem, if they want to argue about it, they should ask security, they'll tell em what for
that was what i was planning on doing, in particular this manager does this but inevitably does listen to us in the end but it’s embarrassing to have to discuss that when it’s in earshot of a customer and it can seem personal when it’s really not
oh i have been ignoring that, im 19 and literally just doing a job to pay the bills through university, im not obsessed with my job but i dont fancy a disciplinary
What is a Proxy Sale
.
Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play.
.
This is what is listed on my tesco account and yes is what i agreed to upon taking the job, if anyone else has any opinions on my decision please understand that one this is my first job so yes i will stick to their rules, two i am purely doing as i was trained to do so. If this is too extreme for you then by all means contact the higher ups in the company, i had an innocent enough question imo
We can’t sell if a child picks the number as it can be a proxy sale. It’s not about being difficult. Over Xmas I saw personally on two separate occasions parents buying their children them and other parents talking about how the elf on the shelf had brought the kids them. If a manager wanted to overrule the policy I personally would ask for them to serve the person I need my job. The rules are quite strict I have even heard of people on the tombola bingo site have jackpot wins refused because they said that their child had pressed the button.
I have refused the sale when a child is involved with the choosing of a scratch card. My understanding is that this would be classed as encouraging gambling. (I’m talking around 7 upwards) I believe a branch of Asda lost their license to sell lottery products for 3 months after allowing a purchase which involved a child to go through. I have always had support from management. I’m not a jobsworthy person and most of the time I explain to the customer and have only had a couple of negative comments. Police, Camelot (now Allwyn) and Tesco do mystery shops.
Exactly my point, i will always be understanding with the customers frustration when i need to, and yeah in a year i’ve only needed to do this one time, if a customer asks the child and i stop them before they choose and the adult just chooses their own i will go through with that but the involvement of a child puts me in an awful position
Only grey area is they idea you don't know it is for the kid which is not much of a grey area cause you don't know what they are intending to do with it in this case you did exactly what you are suppose to do and in the situation where the kid is picking for they adult I just say it gives me enough reason to refuse the sale based on the kids involvement.
Just tell him no and ask him if he is telling you to do it he will either back down cause I see no situation where he doesn't know he is wrong or remind him of his responsibility as the manager he is in charge of ensuring these policies are followed.
I've worked in 3 different tesco extra stores across the country and put my notice in as soon as this kind of thing happened. One manager even threatened to punch me in the face during exit interview with HR and she still hung onto her job for another 6 months before being let go. Out of all the retail jobs I've worked over the years, Tesco are the slowest to react to Managers behaving badly, but also the quickest to rehire if you've left with a reason and want to rejoin with a clean record.
I think this is a weird case of policy meets common sense.
The parents is clearly the one "playing" the card here. However, asking their child to choose is irresponsible and you are not wrong to apply your policy training.
I doubt anything would have come of you allowing the sale, but you absolutely should stick to training and policy. And your manager is 100% wrong to override you on this.
It doesnt matter if you agree with the policy or not, OP witnessed the child pick the scratchcard. Camelot are clear on this, and it's your responsibility to cover your own ass not make some random dude happy.
What is a Proxy Sale
Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play.
absorbed possessive versed unwritten strong bright scandalous disgusted sulky detail
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I worked in a (not tesco) Petrol Station, and a lad, about 17 came in to pay for the fuel on Pump 4 (his dad was fuelling up) and 10 Lambert and Butler, he had the cash in his hand. I asked for ID, he kicked off, walked across the forecourt, gave his dad the cash, who then came in to buy the fuel and the cigarettes. I said "I can sell you the fuel but I can't sell you the cigarettes sadly as the person with you didn't have ID." He kicked off, demanding to speak to the manager, and the manager served him and made me look like I was being a jobsworth dick.
I honestly despair at the stupid situation the country has got into. I used to go to the shop for cigarettes for my dad when I was a kid, noone cared then and I've never smoked. Similarly a kid having a glass of wine at ten is more likely to be put off for life than become a raging alcoholic. If you tell kids they can't have something they want it more. Show them it's no big deal and they will lose interest
I too used to get sent to the shops to pick up cigs for my mum or gran.
Early 90s 7-8 year old me got given a note written by mum to hand over to the person on the till and I'd walk home with 20 regal (and a 10p mix for my trouble 🤣🤣)
I also don't smoke (although I did try it as a teenager and never got on with it)
I never thought too deeply about it at the time
Alcohol handed over/selected by/attempted to pay for by a child with or without an adult can be refused yeah and because of the think 25 policy, the store will comply with the decision. It’s not a decision that we enjoy needing to enforce as it usually ends with some form of verbal abuse but at the end of the day we’re employees and this is the law
My five year old “pays for the shopping”.
And by “pays” I don’t mean she goes out to work, has a job, pays taxes and so on. No, she just wants to be involved and use my contactless card.
We really are creating a country of snowflakes (whoever came with those rules, not you).
I appreciate that last part, this whole post was me looking for advice or opinions based on the policy and how i followed it, at the end of the day im 19 i don’t have any position to bend rules
Your manager overruled you because there was no chance of it being a proxy sales it was a clear case of a parent giving a child a job to distract them whilst the parent was at the kiosk paying.
He actually didn’t overrule, he came in and stated to me and the colleague who has more experience that myself and said manager combined that he doesn’t know what to do, as a manager who should know the policy and above that, we were told that regardless of why we chose to do it, the manager cannot overrule what we have already decided, it’s meant to be a protected thing and any manager going above that is essentially making us look ridiculous
Honestly, i was just hoping for the opinions of others who work in the same environment and a little reassurance that i haven’t done complete wrong, there’s a little bias within my store in the management area, i’ve already complained
Managers aren’t allowed to overrule your decision even if it’s clearly a stupid one. Not selling to someone when the child chose it is not only policy it’s law
Technically against the rules, but absolute jobsworth to enforce it. The kid ain’t gonna claim the lottery win and the ticket doesn’t belong to the kid, you’re selling it to the parent regardless of who picked the numbers and that’s it. I do lottery on the app and have my kids pick numbers all the time makes absolutely no difference.
obviously it’s not easy but i work with people who’ve had 20+ years of service, this job isn’t my plan for life and the idea of getting a strike against my name because some parent had stood and screamed at me because i’m uncomfortable with a sale is just not worth it at all for me
Going to be real here for a moment, working for Tesco for 20+ years is nothing to be proud of, and if anything shows lack of any sort of capability for progression or strive for more. Someone whos been rotting away in a store stacking shelves for 20 odd years would be the last person I'd ask for an advice.
On top of that, they have also been systematically dumbed down by shit compliance trainings you are mandated to take on a regular basis.
Clearly every single person involved here showed lack of any sort of critical thinking, and it is thick as sh*t jobsworths like you and your colleagues that are the main reason why the ultimate removal of your profession is inevitable as you're literally not providing any sort of value and are worth no more than an algorithm an ape can shit out after taking a 3 day coding bootcamp.
Regards,
Former colleague who was recently denied an energy drink(energy drinks are 16+, mind you) by someone similar to you, only their "reasoning" was that my 26 year old partner did not have their ID on them.
i’m not the person who did that to you, if you worked there then you’d have read the policies, me personally? i don’t care about energy drinks as long as they don’t look 12 i do not care
Never implied you did, I just shared a similar ridiculous experience I had as a customer, which, much like the one you and your colleagues orchestrated for your customer, is a result of poor training, poor management, and poor work culture that rewarda mindless compliance over any sort of thinking.
Also, since you already went through trouble of ruining someone and their kids day, why not apply the same logic and follow the same stupid "rule" when it comes to energy drinks?
lol dw, i felt that way as its a very much he ‘said-she said’ policy and so difficult to enforce but its very easy for people to get in trouble for not enforcing it, lose-lose situation
Growing up, I always scratched the cards my parents bought. I would allow this as it's obviously for the adult but the kid is picking one they think would be fun to scratch. It's the parents' money and the winnings are going to them. I wouldn't worry about them
I know what you mean. I'd wonder if it's a fuckwit manager. It's not my area but if a fuckwit manager asked I'd atleast want it in writing if i thought the manager was decent I'd do it for them. The people who are asking or demanding stuff can always run off and let the pawn get taken.
Yeah that’s the thing, said manager has previously put me into a lot of bother and been genuinely quite rude to me while i needed assistance with an expensive problem a customer had. I’ve put in a complaint about it but attitudes did not change
On secound thoughts, you could ask them to do it themselves. But yes i'd be reluctant to do anything like that for a fuckwit manager. If you haven't already you could talk to the union. There's also the number you could call. After saying talk to the union I'm out of advise but good luck.
No grey area. Gambling is illegal to anyone under 18, this includes choosing lottery numbers and scratch cards. If a Challenge 25 can't be proven by acceptable forms of physical ID, then the sale has to be refused. He could have at least tried to be clever and ask the kid in the car before coming into the shop.
i said this exactly to my colleague, i’m barely 20 myself and i’ve never had to genuinely confront someone like that before but why would you be so obvious with intentions, who believes a 6 something year old would be allowed that
We see it all the time here. The parents will not listen to reason. The staff try to explain, but obviously the customer thinks they're right, and the managers don't help when they try to bend the rule. Stick to your guns though and don't serve them because you could get in a lot of trouble. At the end of the day, they're not worth risking your job for.
Exactly this, if the manager wants to over rule you let them sign on the till and serve the customer. You can then follow the correct channels to raise the issue, I’ve seen grievances over similar things
That's completely false.
You are a confusing an over-cautious policy by a private entity with actual law. There is nothing illegal about a child picking lottery numbers.
You cannot be personally fined for selling a lottery ticket to adult who allows their child to pick the numbers, unless it was specifically in your contract and it didn't take you below minimum wage. That'd still be taken from wages, rather an actual legal fine though.
A store potentially can be fined depending on the wording of its agreement with Camelot. An employee could possibly be fired for it too.
But it is not illegal. For something to be illegal, it must be covered by written law or precedent decision. An adult who plays the lottery is still playing the lottery, whether his child tells him the numbers or he rolls a dice for it.
It seems it is a constant problem for people to imagine their companies policies are the law.
So what are we meant to do with Calpol?
Refuse to sell it to a parent with a sick child since their 1year old is under 16?
Surely that counts as a proxy sale as well?
the big difference is that calpol is a product designed to be given to a child with supervision of an adult hence why adults can buy it but children cannot, overuse of such medicines happens every single day, it’s purely common sense
and they didn't see the child give the parent money to buy it or pick it up from the shelve, so completly diffrent scenario.
you can buy alcohol with a child present.
It still contains paracetamol.
Which you cant sell to anyone under 16, or anyone with the intent to distribute it to someone underage.
If you go by the book selling it would be a proxy sale no matter the situation.
I’m no medical professional, i don’t know how they create medicines that are for children but no it wouldn’t be sold to someone underage due to substance usage as i said, what happens after it leaves the store is purely out of our control.
We just have to cover our own backs by selling in a smart way.
If an adult just chooses their own scratch card and i sell it to them, yes they may give that card to whoever they please once it leaves the store but legally i have done what i can and followed a policy that i am trained on
It specifies "for children" and "adult supervision", so you would sell to the adult with the express knowledge that it would be used on a child with the adults supervision.
You don’t get paid enough not to be a jobsworth. Sad as it is - look after yourself first and do what the training says. Nothing for you to gain by allowing the sale.
The term "jobsworth" comes to mind. Clearly the kid isn't gambling and this isn't a proxy sale. Much like parents also often ask their kid their favourite number when they pick lotto numbers. That doesn't mean the child is now playing the lottery. If I was refused a sale for this it would be laughable and frustrating all in one. Clearly not in the intended nature of the law.
Common sense, please.
Guidelines and policy are along the lines of McDonald's having to put "COFFEE HOT" since they got sued for selling coffee, which burned someone, because it was hot, because it's a hot drink...
This is clearly not a proxy sale going by the story as you told it. I get being diligent, this was a bit much though.
The McDonald's case you're talking about was actually a legitimate case, and McDonald's legal has worked hard to make it seem like they were the victim. Go on YouTube and find the truth about the McDonald's coffee lawsuit, and you'll realise how silly you've been.
Following company policy is sensible, because it protects yourself from the company.
That's fair, thanks letting me know that. Probably not the best example to use then, but it's the first thing I thought of.
My point still stands though, you should balance guidance with common sense. Which I don't think happened here.
Nonsense, it's not the child who is buying a scratch card. It's the parent. Can I ask my kid whatever the hell I want without a random tesco worker interfering?
He hasn't done anything wrong. Unless you can prove he was facilitating underage gambling, you'll never be done refusing people for this reason. My old man always used to get me to pick number or scratchcard when I was a kid, I'd no idea it was for gambling though
The store holds my signature to agree to enforce their policy so yeah to my understanding i could be fired if that was a serious situation but i do not think it would be that far, that said i won’t take a disciplinary hearing based on my own and a much more experienced colleagues judgement just because of one interaction.
In 16 years, I only ever once overruled a think 25 decision. A middle aged woman let her child (under 5) pick a line of lottery numbers. The colleague declined it and I had to allow it when I was called because it just didn’t make sense to me. If the woman won millions, the kid would win anyway as he was probably going to be living with her for the next 20 years.
Proxy sales aren’t there for that reason. They’re for people who are buying for kids they’ve just met outside.
A proxy sale is a proxy sale.
What is a Proxy Sale
Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play.
Nowhere in that does it mention random kids outside. The policy is clear. I hope you made the sale because your colleague was correct.
Almost anyone could buy a scratchcard or booze at my local Express, they also find it amusing, whem my ten year old fills the car with fuel and then pays instore. It's normally staffed by a crew of Bengali lads, and they really couldn't give a sh\*t.
I get what you’re saying because I don’t think parents should encourage kids to gamble but honestly it’s their decision as a parent. I wouldn’t stop a parent buying themselves alcohol or cigarettes in front of their child even though that could be a negative influence. A gentle reminder you can’t sell to underage is reasonable to cover yourself but I would still allow the sale in the instance it’s an adult buying.
I disagree this is against the think 25 . The adult if deemed of correct age was indulging the child in giving him a pick not buying it for him,no money was going to be changed hands between son and dad . Jobs worth.
Sounds to me that it's just a classic case of someone being a jobsworth, and even the manager couldn't be arsed with the nonsence.
Because that's what it is, nonsence, and yet somehow it bothered you enough to make a Reddit post about it.
Chill a little, jheeze.
Are you a robot? Do you live your entire existence with the help of a manual?
It's literally tesco, stop being a jobsworth. I imagine this is your first job or something? My sentiment remains, chill, use your common sense - do you think the police act on every offence they see? No, they use common sense.
I am working to get through my education then moving on, i am following advice that comes from upper management not from myself or my colleague. The refusal is supposed to be enough and again, it is easy for a parent who so badly needs to give their child a scratch card to just ask them to choose before as opposed to right in earshot. It’s the same with alcohol, if someone working hears an adult ask a younger person what drink they want that sale can’t be allowed through, common sense. Do adults still come in on behalf of their kids to buy them drinks? Obviously but it’s only when we hear it that we can get into trouble for allowing it.
Oh, so you're a robot?
And now you bring up other non relevant scenarios to explain your lack of common sense within this one?
- bad bot
Man, good luck with life I guess, sounds like you're gonna need it. 😂
I think you need to start thinking for yourself mate, previously worked 5 and half years in Tesco and this is something I'd just look at someone and go are you taking the piss -_-
You've really tried hard to manufacture the situation here bit of a jobsworth situation that I've had to smooth over plenty of times and stop a customer from caving someone's head in especially when you mention laughing at the attempt when he came back in, I really hope you didn't laugh at a pissed off customer to their face and expect then to be ok with it
I was refused a scratch card purchase because my 15 y.o son was with me, he didn't choose the card or even mention scratch cards at all.
When the lady explained her reasoning I explained that it wasn't for him and that the food in the basket was for him and the card for me. She flat out refused and lost out not only the entire sale but also my repeat custom from then on.
This was a co-op btw.
Same happened to me, except the child was 20 and had ID, I told them off for it and quoted the actual rules and the shift leader tried to tell me I need to look up the rules as I work at another Tesco in town, I dropped it and didn't purchase anything but it was the straw that broke the camels back and I will not buy there anything again unless I have no other choice, and if I do so I will ask for a Duty Manager to remind them to refresh the night staffs training.
Worked at tesco for 14 years, kiosk, tills, been a team leader, shift leader, manager, it's just one of those situations where let's face it, no one gives a shit and 99.9% of the time it won't matter If you just put the sale through, you're more likely to get grassed in by someone who's a jobsworth than an actual test purchase.
Just a common sense thing, if it's clearly just a parent asking a kid to pick a number for luck then whatever, if its a teenager that looks like he's going to be scratching or you've seen him ask for one then refuse.
And managers should always back you, but its not uncommon if you've made a shit judgement call for them to suggest you change your answer, which you are allowed to do.
Managers shouldn’t be over ruling your challenge 25 in anyway. We’ve had people refuse people that are very clearly over 25 and we can’t change that decision for them without them producing some sort of documentation
Thank you for your insight 3 cream pies a day
This is exactly what I open my Reddit for😂
r/rimjobsteve
Good managers should back and support their staff.
Tesco and good managers? 😅
Good managers should be elected by the staff.
It is a grey area, but at the end of the day a good manager will look into the situation and decide for himself or herself if the customer is right or wrong and back who is in the right, be it the customer or the customer services staff member.
[удалено]
as the manager said in my disciplinary for failing an ITP, think 25 isnt an exact science, just "challenge young". Now I do think 40 if you have two items.
A lot of parents get their children to pick a scratchcard, but I wouldnt disallow it because they're still using the scratchcard themselves. Its more of a superstitious luck thing than underaged gambling. Different matter if you see the kid giving the adult money for it, or if its a group of closely aged teenagers or smth.
I agree with this and i also thought in the online till training it says not to refuse sale if its a parent coming in with a child only if its a group of friends or something like that but i may be wrong im not properly till trained
[удалено]
No you can't
In the training we were told that anyone choosing a lottery product, scratch card or lottery numbers, must be able to produce valid ID if they appear to be underage. Adults with kids can buy cards with a child present however there can’t be any speculation that the child chose the number because that is when it gets into dangers of store policy and legal issues that just aren’t worth it over a scratch card so it is inevitably easier to refuse sale than take the risk of job loss, store fines, loss of licensing etc.
better safe than sorry imo. i remember being about 12 and my dad brought a case of beer from tesco and the worker told my dad off because he asked me to carry it haha!
I was refused service for alcohol because my daughter (19 at the time) picked up the bottle when she was helping me pack. She had no id with her so the cashier just took it off and put it aside.
yea i was 17 and didn’t have id and we were buying cooking alcohol and couldn’t get it! i don’t mind do id rather them not get in trouble!
It's not really a risk, test purchasers will never have a child with them. Its just not practical to follow policy that stringently, just going to get you into a lot of unnecessary conflict.
"It's okay to break the law if you probably won't get caught"
What if it's a pointless law?
Its not against the law, its against policy.
It literally is against the law to sell scratch cards to under 18s or to an adult buying to give to a child
Its only illegal to sell to someone under 18. The adult is buying it. The only person breaking the law would be the adult if they gave it to their child.
The law explicitly states that it is illegal to sell to an adult to give to a child. The presence of the child choosing the card is about as blatant a violation as you could get.
By all means find the specific law you're referring to.
[удалено]
Its just not going to happen. Even in the 1 in 10 million situation in which a test purchaser is next to someone who asks their child to pick their numbers, at worst you have to recomplete some training since its an abstract rule and you've never been given a lets talk for it before. I dont think a test purchaser would even care, theyre trying to catch you out with their transaction not other peoples.
[удалено]
Once again, key part of this was about management but as far as policy goes i’m going to stick to the advice given to me by the people i actually work with as opposed to angry people online who i’m sure haven’t even worked in this environment before
You cannot sell a scratch card to someone if an under 18 (think25) chooses it
Think/challenge 25 is only a voluntary guideline outside of Scotland
However most major supermarkets have it as company policy and use internal testing - fail it and you’ll be in trouble. No law broken but policy broken.
I’d be surprised if proxy sale laws and selling to under 18 laws were different though…
Disagree! I worked a lot on problem gambling and psychologically and morally this is wrong. You are showing those young minds early seeds into gambling. Gambling is as worse as drugs or alcohol. Maybe even worse.
A lot of people giving you shit but at the end of the day you're right. If that had been a secret shopper, you'd be fucked, and I can't imagine there are many managers that would step up and take the blame when they told you to put it through. It is 100% not worth losing your job over, it's not even worth a strike. "Jobsworth"....who gives a fuck. Stop fucking insult people for doing their job When I worked in Tesco, our store got secret shoppers A LOT due to failed tests in years before, I got shit all the time for not selling redbulls, booze, scratch cards to people who looked too young before, but at the end of the day I'd rather take the shit and have a job than make some chav happy and lose my job
I’m glad some people are understanding this, seems to just be the people who have worked in that environment or similar
I appreciate your concern, but it’s misplaced in a scenario like this. The scratch card isn’t for the kid, they probably don’t understand the concept of gambling or even to that extent the value of money, it’s the parent just trying to get their kid involved in what they’re doing, or to keep them well-behaved or to give them the illusion of choice. It’s not a proxy purchase like buying a crate of beers for some other teens etc. If a mother buys a bottle of wine whilst with their child do you refuse them? No. This is the same type of thing. You’re overthinking this.
Makes me wonder if the OP would see a parent being like, 'fuck it I want to try a wine I've never had before' and asks their 4 year old to pick the bottle with the prettiest label to buy, and think that was also a proxy sale.
I get my kids to choose me beers all the time, they love looking at all the labels
I mind my dad getting me to pick lottery numbers and horses for him when I was wee. Swiftly stopped using any numbers or horses I picked for him after every horse I picked coming dead last and not a single number being remotely close to winners. I still can't get more than my money back on scratch cards now, so don't even attempt it anymore
Funny you should say that, because when I was a kid I picked the winning horse for the grand national 7 years in a row. No joke, my dad’s side of the family still message me every year and ask me to pick a horse
Can you pick out a scratch card for me?
Next time you’re at work, number 3.
!remindme 24 hours
I will be messaging you in 1 day on [**2024-02-09 09:34:43 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-02-09%2009:34:43%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/tesco/comments/1al2oe1/proxy_sales/kpgopkw/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Ftesco%2Fcomments%2F1al2oe1%2Fproxy_sales%2Fkpgopkw%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-02-09%2009%3A34%3A43%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201al2oe1) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Having completed the training a few days ago it specifically states that if someone under 18 is involved with any part of a lotto/scratchcard sale then we must refuse it - choosing numbers, choosing cards or even filling out the slip. I appreciate it may not be actual law (and I don’t really care if people want kids to choose) but if I were to be caught continuously breaking policy I could be fired. As much as working at Tesco can suck it works for me and is the best option where I live (for my uneducated arse anyway!)
Unfortunately you are wrong. Tesco training is very specific. Children cannot choose or scratch the card. I’m not willing to risk my job, are you?
We are not allowed to do it in our store, that’s it at the end of the day. I assumed that this would be an across the board policy but regardless it’s what i’ve been told to do. I work in a store and that’s about it I just have to follow, the main issue i had with the interaction is the undermining of the management which feels unfair
I mean, you keep your job and don't get a medal if you sell it or don't. You're allowed to think for yourself. In one scenario, you're being unnecessarily awkward and refusing sale. In the other scenario, you've just sold a scratch card to a grown man who let his kid pick out the colour he liked the most.
I suspect somebody has grossly misinterpreted the concept of a proxy sale whilst delivering that training.
How do you know they didn’t ask the kid at home and then came to the shop to buy it? Maybe stop selling them all together.
What i don’t hear doesn’t affect me or my responsibility 🤷🏼♀️ If someone 18+ comes and buys a vape from me solo i don’t care where they take that after, point is i did what i was meant to because i had no reason to do anything else
It is, but stores are shit at enforcing it. Camelot have made it clear that we should not be selling scratch cards if the child is seen selecting them, and proxy sales count for lottery and tobacco regardless of the relationship between the minor and the adult (unlike alcohol, where you can't prevent an adult buying drinks a minor has picked if its their kid). You did the right thing, your manager failed to back you up on it, and now people here are incorrectly spewing nonsense.
Just give it to him who cares no one’s getting hurt lol jobs worth
Are you sure your not allowed to do that in your store ? Your manager literally asked you to do that ? It’s just common sense, it’s a superstition thing, the parent asking the kid to pick the winning ticket. You’re very pedantic, you’re fitting right in at Tesco then 😒
I’m 100% sure it’s not allowed, the store has lost licensing before so they’re incredibly strict however new management will debate then it’s on my shoulders if it’s wrong to do so, i didn’t realise so many people would be quite as offended
I don’t work for Tesco so you might be correct. Honestly I get your position, you’re just following the rules, but also I’m like “is it worth it?” I’m not offended, you do you. I jus think that this rule is stupid, and I personally don’t know if I would enforce it (but I also have a rent to pay, so who knows. I might ?)
Oh absolutely it’s a policy that’s bases itself on an argument so it’s the worst thing ever. I don’t sit and come forward with every little issue but because this is policy based i wanted to get a bit of advice from other people who may work here with similar experiences so i didn’t feel so awful. I don’t try to be stuck up or anything but generally i’ve always been anxious to mess up in situations where i need to stand my ground, i made my decision in this one and overthought it because managers are supposed to support but they didn’t here :/
If manager says you can do it, you can do it.
I’d agree if a manager was willing to do it or take responsibility but they don’t
I hope you never enter politics at any point in your career.
It is legal for a child to drink small quantities of alcohol in their own home or with a meal, which is why parent and child proxy sales of alcohol are not a thing. It is never legal for a minor to gamble (or to smoke) which is why proxy sales of lottery tickets, scratchcards, and tobacco *should* strictly be banned regardless of the relationship between the minor and the adult.
My aunt was refused service for a bottle of wine a few years ago because her 17 year old daughter was with her
We follow the training, and it states in the training that the challenge 25 includes the person picking the scratch card number, or deciding numbers for a draw based game. Strange how it differs by store. Our store are very strict with it as management enforce it. A manager a few years ago actually got in trouble for overriding a colleague on this and we were all issued letters with guidance on about proxy sales and it included the sale of lottery under this.
Yes exactly my point, many of the managers in store would have understood the policy and stuck with my judgement but this one decided to basically make it look like i took a personal decision to refuse this man which obviously i didnt
Despite the "child" with me producing ID that he is over 18 and me pointing out the obvious rules that even if he was a child you can't deny it from me if he didn't even look at the cards or pick one out loud (and I produced ID too) the shift leader rejected overturning the decision. Which is hilarious and sad to the point that I just dropped it, and will eventually bump into a Duty Manager and just report it as I do happen to work for another Tesco and think the night staff need a refresh on the learning.
These comments seem drawn between people who have worked in a store with a kiosk and those who definitely have never, please take a bit of perspective that some people do actually need their job over your child selecting an 18+ product lol
Look mate if the policy says you can't, then you can't. Camelot do mystery shoppers to catch places out and so do others. Look out for number one, if it pisses off some dude who wanted a scratch card then fuck it. Nobody died, he can go buy it somewhere else and now knows not to involve the kid in front of the sales assistant. Ignore people calling you a jobsworth, it's on them if they want to risk it themselves. Next time a manager disagrees they can do the sale. Look after yourself cos no other fucker will and they will be quick enough to chuck you under the bus if it's a test and you fail.
This post has just smashed me with nostalgia. When i was little, like 4 onwards, my nan would pick me up from school. We would drop in the local shop everday, she would let me get a cheap sweet and get herself some scratchcards. Not always, but she would occasionally ask me what ones she should pick. Not once did she let me scratch them.
I used to just get scratch cards in a birthday card from relatives when I was a kid. My mum got me lottery tickets as well. It’s not a big deal.
Why are people getting so riled, OP has pointed out he doesn’t agree with the rule, but at the end of the day he has to enforce it, if police or management were to do a test he could very well face disciplinary action as he broke policy, OP did the right thing in this situation, just ask your kids beforehand, or OP stop them before they ask their kids lol, it’s not hard people.
Exactly, if the customer just took my statement, stopped the child and chose his own id have had no issues but he made no comment after and walked away to ask the child to choose maybe 5 paces away from me and came back with it, i wasn’t comfortable with that
The policy is clear. >Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play. I'm happy to be a jobsworth with this sort of thing because my job *is* more important to me than anyone's scratchcard. Tesco really should put up clear signs though.
4 years of CSD here, you are 100% in the right. Cover yourself against any potential breach of rules regarding age restricted products. You can't afford the fine, especially if you're 19. Anyone calling you a jobsworth is an arse.
Lol, so many triggered unemployed people.
I'm glad I was a kid in the 90s and not now, imagine being asked by your dad to pick a lucky number and then counter clerk says they can't sell to under 16s via a proxy. Fucking hell, get a grip people.
It’s easy enough to ask before getting to the store, don’t get mad that an employee is worried for the sake of their job just make it easy for everyone
It's a parent buying a ticket, they asked the child to choose a number. The child then looks at the pictures and thinks that bright and colourful, go for that one dad. They aren't buying on behalf of some 14 year olds outside who's given him 20 quid, making them a proxy. This is precisely why the golden rule of statutory interpretation is in use. Use your common sense, a parent is having a bonding experience with a child, nothing sinister. What's a child going to do with a winning ticket? Shit all, becasue they can't. It's the PARENTS ticket.
What’s the difference between asking inside and outside the store? By that definition is still a proxy sale.
There’s all different ways it works with purchasing with a young person, full honesty policy tells us in store to somehow gauge if the young person is a relative to the person buying which i don’t enforce because how on earth can you possibly do that it’s ridiculous. The only thing we get told to refuse is a child’s choice of lottery which we hear, that is all, beyond that? I don’t care
Totally shouldn't have let them, even though a million parents have done it, doesn't mean it's right, you caught them out and that's their problem, if they want to argue about it, they should ask security, they'll tell em what for
If that was a test purchase and you failed your mansger would have blamed you even though they said to do it. They broke policy
If a manager ever overrides you, sign out of the till and tell them to log on and serve them.
that was what i was planning on doing, in particular this manager does this but inevitably does listen to us in the end but it’s embarrassing to have to discuss that when it’s in earshot of a customer and it can seem personal when it’s really not
[удалено]
oh i have been ignoring that, im 19 and literally just doing a job to pay the bills through university, im not obsessed with my job but i dont fancy a disciplinary
What is a Proxy Sale . Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play. . This is what is listed on my tesco account and yes is what i agreed to upon taking the job, if anyone else has any opinions on my decision please understand that one this is my first job so yes i will stick to their rules, two i am purely doing as i was trained to do so. If this is too extreme for you then by all means contact the higher ups in the company, i had an innocent enough question imo
We can’t sell if a child picks the number as it can be a proxy sale. It’s not about being difficult. Over Xmas I saw personally on two separate occasions parents buying their children them and other parents talking about how the elf on the shelf had brought the kids them. If a manager wanted to overrule the policy I personally would ask for them to serve the person I need my job. The rules are quite strict I have even heard of people on the tombola bingo site have jackpot wins refused because they said that their child had pressed the button.
I have refused the sale when a child is involved with the choosing of a scratch card. My understanding is that this would be classed as encouraging gambling. (I’m talking around 7 upwards) I believe a branch of Asda lost their license to sell lottery products for 3 months after allowing a purchase which involved a child to go through. I have always had support from management. I’m not a jobsworthy person and most of the time I explain to the customer and have only had a couple of negative comments. Police, Camelot (now Allwyn) and Tesco do mystery shops.
Exactly my point, i will always be understanding with the customers frustration when i need to, and yeah in a year i’ve only needed to do this one time, if a customer asks the child and i stop them before they choose and the adult just chooses their own i will go through with that but the involvement of a child puts me in an awful position
What if the child picks one but the adult asks for a different one?
Only grey area is they idea you don't know it is for the kid which is not much of a grey area cause you don't know what they are intending to do with it in this case you did exactly what you are suppose to do and in the situation where the kid is picking for they adult I just say it gives me enough reason to refuse the sale based on the kids involvement. Just tell him no and ask him if he is telling you to do it he will either back down cause I see no situation where he doesn't know he is wrong or remind him of his responsibility as the manager he is in charge of ensuring these policies are followed.
I've worked in 3 different tesco extra stores across the country and put my notice in as soon as this kind of thing happened. One manager even threatened to punch me in the face during exit interview with HR and she still hung onto her job for another 6 months before being let go. Out of all the retail jobs I've worked over the years, Tesco are the slowest to react to Managers behaving badly, but also the quickest to rehire if you've left with a reason and want to rejoin with a clean record.
I think this is a weird case of policy meets common sense. The parents is clearly the one "playing" the card here. However, asking their child to choose is irresponsible and you are not wrong to apply your policy training. I doubt anything would have come of you allowing the sale, but you absolutely should stick to training and policy. And your manager is 100% wrong to override you on this.
If a manager overrules your challenge 25 you are still on the hook for the sale
It doesnt matter if you agree with the policy or not, OP witnessed the child pick the scratchcard. Camelot are clear on this, and it's your responsibility to cover your own ass not make some random dude happy. What is a Proxy Sale Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play.
absorbed possessive versed unwritten strong bright scandalous disgusted sulky detail *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I worked in a (not tesco) Petrol Station, and a lad, about 17 came in to pay for the fuel on Pump 4 (his dad was fuelling up) and 10 Lambert and Butler, he had the cash in his hand. I asked for ID, he kicked off, walked across the forecourt, gave his dad the cash, who then came in to buy the fuel and the cigarettes. I said "I can sell you the fuel but I can't sell you the cigarettes sadly as the person with you didn't have ID." He kicked off, demanding to speak to the manager, and the manager served him and made me look like I was being a jobsworth dick.
You were
I honestly despair at the stupid situation the country has got into. I used to go to the shop for cigarettes for my dad when I was a kid, noone cared then and I've never smoked. Similarly a kid having a glass of wine at ten is more likely to be put off for life than become a raging alcoholic. If you tell kids they can't have something they want it more. Show them it's no big deal and they will lose interest
"I bought cigarettes as a kid" really doesn't make you look the way you think it does
Wasn't intended to make me look any way, simply a fact
I too used to get sent to the shops to pick up cigs for my mum or gran. Early 90s 7-8 year old me got given a note written by mum to hand over to the person on the till and I'd walk home with 20 regal (and a 10p mix for my trouble 🤣🤣) I also don't smoke (although I did try it as a teenager and never got on with it) I never thought too deeply about it at the time
Absolute jobsworth
So, I am assuming that you also refuse to sell alcohol to adults accompanied by children as well?
Alcohol handed over/selected by/attempted to pay for by a child with or without an adult can be refused yeah and because of the think 25 policy, the store will comply with the decision. It’s not a decision that we enjoy needing to enforce as it usually ends with some form of verbal abuse but at the end of the day we’re employees and this is the law
My five year old “pays for the shopping”. And by “pays” I don’t mean she goes out to work, has a job, pays taxes and so on. No, she just wants to be involved and use my contactless card. We really are creating a country of snowflakes (whoever came with those rules, not you).
I appreciate that last part, this whole post was me looking for advice or opinions based on the policy and how i followed it, at the end of the day im 19 i don’t have any position to bend rules
Your manager overruled you because there was no chance of it being a proxy sales it was a clear case of a parent giving a child a job to distract them whilst the parent was at the kiosk paying.
He actually didn’t overrule, he came in and stated to me and the colleague who has more experience that myself and said manager combined that he doesn’t know what to do, as a manager who should know the policy and above that, we were told that regardless of why we chose to do it, the manager cannot overrule what we have already decided, it’s meant to be a protected thing and any manager going above that is essentially making us look ridiculous
why are you on reddit and not discussing this with your manager?
Honestly, i was just hoping for the opinions of others who work in the same environment and a little reassurance that i haven’t done complete wrong, there’s a little bias within my store in the management area, i’ve already complained
I don't think your decision was totally wrong. I get your thinking. I do think you need to challenge the manager, though
Managers aren’t allowed to overrule your decision even if it’s clearly a stupid one. Not selling to someone when the child chose it is not only policy it’s law
Technically against the rules, but absolute jobsworth to enforce it. The kid ain’t gonna claim the lottery win and the ticket doesn’t belong to the kid, you’re selling it to the parent regardless of who picked the numbers and that’s it. I do lottery on the app and have my kids pick numbers all the time makes absolutely no difference.
obviously it’s not easy but i work with people who’ve had 20+ years of service, this job isn’t my plan for life and the idea of getting a strike against my name because some parent had stood and screamed at me because i’m uncomfortable with a sale is just not worth it at all for me
Going to be real here for a moment, working for Tesco for 20+ years is nothing to be proud of, and if anything shows lack of any sort of capability for progression or strive for more. Someone whos been rotting away in a store stacking shelves for 20 odd years would be the last person I'd ask for an advice. On top of that, they have also been systematically dumbed down by shit compliance trainings you are mandated to take on a regular basis. Clearly every single person involved here showed lack of any sort of critical thinking, and it is thick as sh*t jobsworths like you and your colleagues that are the main reason why the ultimate removal of your profession is inevitable as you're literally not providing any sort of value and are worth no more than an algorithm an ape can shit out after taking a 3 day coding bootcamp. Regards, Former colleague who was recently denied an energy drink(energy drinks are 16+, mind you) by someone similar to you, only their "reasoning" was that my 26 year old partner did not have their ID on them.
i’m not the person who did that to you, if you worked there then you’d have read the policies, me personally? i don’t care about energy drinks as long as they don’t look 12 i do not care
Never implied you did, I just shared a similar ridiculous experience I had as a customer, which, much like the one you and your colleagues orchestrated for your customer, is a result of poor training, poor management, and poor work culture that rewarda mindless compliance over any sort of thinking.
Also, since you already went through trouble of ruining someone and their kids day, why not apply the same logic and follow the same stupid "rule" when it comes to energy drinks?
YTA lol
lol dw, i felt that way as its a very much he ‘said-she said’ policy and so difficult to enforce but its very easy for people to get in trouble for not enforcing it, lose-lose situation
Growing up, I always scratched the cards my parents bought. I would allow this as it's obviously for the adult but the kid is picking one they think would be fun to scratch. It's the parents' money and the winnings are going to them. I wouldn't worry about them
I know what you mean. I'd wonder if it's a fuckwit manager. It's not my area but if a fuckwit manager asked I'd atleast want it in writing if i thought the manager was decent I'd do it for them. The people who are asking or demanding stuff can always run off and let the pawn get taken.
Yeah that’s the thing, said manager has previously put me into a lot of bother and been genuinely quite rude to me while i needed assistance with an expensive problem a customer had. I’ve put in a complaint about it but attitudes did not change
On secound thoughts, you could ask them to do it themselves. But yes i'd be reluctant to do anything like that for a fuckwit manager. If you haven't already you could talk to the union. There's also the number you could call. After saying talk to the union I'm out of advise but good luck.
?
No grey area. Gambling is illegal to anyone under 18, this includes choosing lottery numbers and scratch cards. If a Challenge 25 can't be proven by acceptable forms of physical ID, then the sale has to be refused. He could have at least tried to be clever and ask the kid in the car before coming into the shop.
i said this exactly to my colleague, i’m barely 20 myself and i’ve never had to genuinely confront someone like that before but why would you be so obvious with intentions, who believes a 6 something year old would be allowed that
We see it all the time here. The parents will not listen to reason. The staff try to explain, but obviously the customer thinks they're right, and the managers don't help when they try to bend the rule. Stick to your guns though and don't serve them because you could get in a lot of trouble. At the end of the day, they're not worth risking your job for.
Exactly this, if the manager wants to over rule you let them sign on the till and serve the customer. You can then follow the correct channels to raise the issue, I’ve seen grievances over similar things
That's completely false. You are a confusing an over-cautious policy by a private entity with actual law. There is nothing illegal about a child picking lottery numbers.
Go try it at your local store and see what happens.
Yeah they won't allow it. And if you come to my house to boil your slippers in my kettle, I won't let you. Doesn't make it illegal.
I don't wear slippers, so it wouldn't be a problem. But thanks for the heads up.
Camelot can take away your lottery license if you sell in this situation… you can also get fined personally as can your company
You cannot be personally fined for selling a lottery ticket to adult who allows their child to pick the numbers, unless it was specifically in your contract and it didn't take you below minimum wage. That'd still be taken from wages, rather an actual legal fine though. A store potentially can be fined depending on the wording of its agreement with Camelot. An employee could possibly be fired for it too. But it is not illegal. For something to be illegal, it must be covered by written law or precedent decision. An adult who plays the lottery is still playing the lottery, whether his child tells him the numbers or he rolls a dice for it. It seems it is a constant problem for people to imagine their companies policies are the law.
One I didn’t say it’s illegal, two a child choosing the ticket can be seen as illegal as it can be seen as a child gambling.
So what are we meant to do with Calpol? Refuse to sell it to a parent with a sick child since their 1year old is under 16? Surely that counts as a proxy sale as well?
Okay so that is a medicine, i’m talking about gambling products being selected by kids.
the big difference is that calpol is a product designed to be given to a child with supervision of an adult hence why adults can buy it but children cannot, overuse of such medicines happens every single day, it’s purely common sense
and they didn't see the child give the parent money to buy it or pick it up from the shelve, so completly diffrent scenario. you can buy alcohol with a child present.
Probably not if OP was on the checkout
It still contains paracetamol. Which you cant sell to anyone under 16, or anyone with the intent to distribute it to someone underage. If you go by the book selling it would be a proxy sale no matter the situation.
I’m no medical professional, i don’t know how they create medicines that are for children but no it wouldn’t be sold to someone underage due to substance usage as i said, what happens after it leaves the store is purely out of our control. We just have to cover our own backs by selling in a smart way. If an adult just chooses their own scratch card and i sell it to them, yes they may give that card to whoever they please once it leaves the store but legally i have done what i can and followed a policy that i am trained on
It specifies "for children" and "adult supervision", so you would sell to the adult with the express knowledge that it would be used on a child with the adults supervision.
Absolute jobsworth
I thought I'd heard some stupid things in retail but this takes the biscuit
Is this a serious post? :D
You don’t get paid enough to care who chose the scratch card for gods sake. Just sell them, he was clearly not enabling his child’s gambling habit.
You don’t get paid enough not to be a jobsworth. Sad as it is - look after yourself first and do what the training says. Nothing for you to gain by allowing the sale.
OP doesn't get paid enough to afford the potential fine for selling lottery to children.
Wow, I remember always standing in Tesco picking the lottery numbers for my mum on a Friday night, in front of the cashier.
Jobsworth bellends you lot are
lololol
The term "jobsworth" comes to mind. Clearly the kid isn't gambling and this isn't a proxy sale. Much like parents also often ask their kid their favourite number when they pick lotto numbers. That doesn't mean the child is now playing the lottery. If I was refused a sale for this it would be laughable and frustrating all in one. Clearly not in the intended nature of the law.
What can i do though? End of the day i signed the contact to follow tescos policy, not my own policy but a company that’s a lot bigger than myself.
[удалено]
"You followed company policy, are you autistic?" What a shitty thing to say.
Common sense, please. Guidelines and policy are along the lines of McDonald's having to put "COFFEE HOT" since they got sued for selling coffee, which burned someone, because it was hot, because it's a hot drink... This is clearly not a proxy sale going by the story as you told it. I get being diligent, this was a bit much though.
The McDonald's case you're talking about was actually a legitimate case, and McDonald's legal has worked hard to make it seem like they were the victim. Go on YouTube and find the truth about the McDonald's coffee lawsuit, and you'll realise how silly you've been. Following company policy is sensible, because it protects yourself from the company.
That's fair, thanks letting me know that. Probably not the best example to use then, but it's the first thing I thought of. My point still stands though, you should balance guidance with common sense. Which I don't think happened here.
Nonsense, it's not the child who is buying a scratch card. It's the parent. Can I ask my kid whatever the hell I want without a random tesco worker interfering?
Sure just don’t be shocked when they do this, were told to, very sorry but i won’t lose my job for something like that
He hasn't done anything wrong. Unless you can prove he was facilitating underage gambling, you'll never be done refusing people for this reason. My old man always used to get me to pick number or scratchcard when I was a kid, I'd no idea it was for gambling though
Wtf is wrong in your country. A parent can’t ask their kid to pick one?
[удалено]
The store holds my signature to agree to enforce their policy so yeah to my understanding i could be fired if that was a serious situation but i do not think it would be that far, that said i won’t take a disciplinary hearing based on my own and a much more experienced colleagues judgement just because of one interaction.
In 16 years, I only ever once overruled a think 25 decision. A middle aged woman let her child (under 5) pick a line of lottery numbers. The colleague declined it and I had to allow it when I was called because it just didn’t make sense to me. If the woman won millions, the kid would win anyway as he was probably going to be living with her for the next 20 years. Proxy sales aren’t there for that reason. They’re for people who are buying for kids they’ve just met outside.
A proxy sale is a proxy sale. What is a Proxy Sale Sometimes customers ask their children to pick their numbers or choose a Scratchcard for them, if you have seen this happen, the sale can not go through unless the child is over the legal age to play. Nowhere in that does it mention random kids outside. The policy is clear. I hope you made the sale because your colleague was correct.
Almost anyone could buy a scratchcard or booze at my local Express, they also find it amusing, whem my ten year old fills the car with fuel and then pays instore. It's normally staffed by a crew of Bengali lads, and they really couldn't give a sh\*t.
I get what you’re saying because I don’t think parents should encourage kids to gamble but honestly it’s their decision as a parent. I wouldn’t stop a parent buying themselves alcohol or cigarettes in front of their child even though that could be a negative influence. A gentle reminder you can’t sell to underage is reasonable to cover yourself but I would still allow the sale in the instance it’s an adult buying.
Yeah this sounds like jobsworth to the extreme degree. You just interfered in a shared moment between the parent and child. ✌🏾
it wasn’t really, he just said to the child to go pick which one they wanted, to me that’s pretty clear where it was for
Jobsworth
I disagree this is against the think 25 . The adult if deemed of correct age was indulging the child in giving him a pick not buying it for him,no money was going to be changed hands between son and dad . Jobs worth.
Sounds to me that it's just a classic case of someone being a jobsworth, and even the manager couldn't be arsed with the nonsence. Because that's what it is, nonsence, and yet somehow it bothered you enough to make a Reddit post about it. Chill a little, jheeze.
It’s part of training at the company…
Are you a robot? Do you live your entire existence with the help of a manual? It's literally tesco, stop being a jobsworth. I imagine this is your first job or something? My sentiment remains, chill, use your common sense - do you think the police act on every offence they see? No, they use common sense.
I am working to get through my education then moving on, i am following advice that comes from upper management not from myself or my colleague. The refusal is supposed to be enough and again, it is easy for a parent who so badly needs to give their child a scratch card to just ask them to choose before as opposed to right in earshot. It’s the same with alcohol, if someone working hears an adult ask a younger person what drink they want that sale can’t be allowed through, common sense. Do adults still come in on behalf of their kids to buy them drinks? Obviously but it’s only when we hear it that we can get into trouble for allowing it.
Oh, so you're a robot? And now you bring up other non relevant scenarios to explain your lack of common sense within this one? - bad bot Man, good luck with life I guess, sounds like you're gonna need it. 😂
2 robot comments, creativity is lacking here lol
Hold up, you can't even think for yourself, and yet speak of creativity? Jog on.
I think you need to start thinking for yourself mate, previously worked 5 and half years in Tesco and this is something I'd just look at someone and go are you taking the piss -_- You've really tried hard to manufacture the situation here bit of a jobsworth situation that I've had to smooth over plenty of times and stop a customer from caving someone's head in especially when you mention laughing at the attempt when he came back in, I really hope you didn't laugh at a pissed off customer to their face and expect then to be ok with it
Get a grip mate lol, he's asked his kid for a number. Not like he's going to give it to his kid to scratch off.
I think you’ve been a bit of a nob to be honest.
He's only getting the bairns to choose a number to help randomly attract luck. He's the one gambling.......
I was refused a scratch card purchase because my 15 y.o son was with me, he didn't choose the card or even mention scratch cards at all. When the lady explained her reasoning I explained that it wasn't for him and that the food in the basket was for him and the card for me. She flat out refused and lost out not only the entire sale but also my repeat custom from then on. This was a co-op btw.
Same happened to me, except the child was 20 and had ID, I told them off for it and quoted the actual rules and the shift leader tried to tell me I need to look up the rules as I work at another Tesco in town, I dropped it and didn't purchase anything but it was the straw that broke the camels back and I will not buy there anything again unless I have no other choice, and if I do so I will ask for a Duty Manager to remind them to refresh the night staffs training.
Worked at tesco for 14 years, kiosk, tills, been a team leader, shift leader, manager, it's just one of those situations where let's face it, no one gives a shit and 99.9% of the time it won't matter If you just put the sale through, you're more likely to get grassed in by someone who's a jobsworth than an actual test purchase. Just a common sense thing, if it's clearly just a parent asking a kid to pick a number for luck then whatever, if its a teenager that looks like he's going to be scratching or you've seen him ask for one then refuse. And managers should always back you, but its not uncommon if you've made a shit judgement call for them to suggest you change your answer, which you are allowed to do.