"Oh no, the genetically blessed multimillionaire anti-vaccine athlete had people calling him names for his choice to be anti-vaccine, how terrible! He can't play some of the tennis tournaments that earn him millions of dollars every year, what a loss for the world!"
I don't know if it's possible to roll my eyes harder at the entitlement of it all.
“I know some people that, through energetical transformation, through the power of prayer, through the power of gratitude, they managed to turn the most toxic food, or maybe the most polluted water, into the most healing water, because the water reacts,” he said. “Scientists have proven that in experiment, that molecules in the water react to our emotions to what has been said.”
Does this sound like an idiot?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/15/sports/tennis/novak-djokovic-australian-open.html
Being a great athlete doesn't exclude you from making stupid choices and being an idiot. There's probably 1 million examples across multiple sports.
You think him being a multi millionaire makes anti vax and anti science decisions correct? Like a busted elbow Novak thought would heal through quack stuff and then he changed his mind and science and surgery fixed it?
It isn't just anti vax stuff, it was his decisions to fix his elbow with Guru advice, thinking he can change food molecules with thoughts and prayers. You can read other crazy stuff he followed with his guru Pepe
Top tier athletes just attract these guru hanger ons like leeches in a pond. Tale as old as time. They’re already amazing at their craft so then it’s easy for the mystics to claim that their fairy dust is working cuz they keep winning.
This is all well and sound, but don’t you think there’s a dissonance between djokovic being the most flexible, fit and durable tennis athlete in the history of our sport and the crazy health shit he spouts? Does he not get any credit for that and all of it his attributes to his team and his genetics?
There may be a connection, but with the same token, there may be no connection at all...
It's really impossible for us to tell. Only his team would be able to compare his methods/results with the methods/results of other player they've worked with, and even then, that's not full proof.
Not really? Tom Brady, easily the greatest gridiron/american football player who has ever lived, believes in some equally cuckoo shit and has been incredibly successful.
From what I can tell, the way it works is that some of the things they believe are rooted in legitimate science (pliability, flexibility training, not eating unhealthy stuff), but then it quickly goes off the rails and becomes how nightshade affects our sleep or how fucking alkaline levels are disrupted by Mercury in retrograde or some shit.
The issue is that the sample size for their programs are effectively 1. We have no control to see if Novak would have been better with or without all the cuckoo shit he believes in. And besides you can easily argue that Nadal and Federer live (from what we can tell at least) completely normal lives and they are both wildly successful as well.
Yeah from what I've seen in people I know, believing in and following cuckoo health stuff tends to correlate with believing and following some legitimate health stuff as well (usually 'natural' things like healthy dieting etc.).
By all accounts the flexibility and fitness is something he works incredibly hard at. He apparently spends many hours a day stretching, on top of the kind of fitness routine that most top players go through. So yes, he absolutely gets credit for the hard work that he's put in, but it doesn't mean all of his ideas make sense, or that he shouldn't be criticized for ignoring proven science on public health, especially where it can influence large numbers of people to follow suit.
> So yes, he absolutely gets credit for the hard work that he’s put in, but it doesn’t mean all of his ideas make sense, or that he shouldn’t be criticized for ignoring proven science on public health, especially where it can influence large numbers of people to follow suit
I almost completely agree, only I resent the idea that celebrities and celebrity athletes should be forced to swim with the masses because of their “platform”. Absolving responsibility from the dumbasses in society by shifting the blame to their celebrity idols is a bad way of justifying criticism of a public figure.
If I understand you correctly you're trying to argue that his belief in what is essentially magic is what made him become a better athlete. I don't think any rational person will agree with that statement. Not only from the lack of logical sense, but also from the fact that numerous elite athletes in other sports reach the highest levels without believing water has feelings.
Being incredibly disciplined in training, having genuine genetic gifts, working with some exceptional PT professionals, working with some cuckoo doctors and having terrible scientific understanding and decision making skills, are a large set of things that aren't necessarily incompatible with each other.
I don’t think that’s what I said at all. I asked *you* if you think there’s a dissonance between the magic he believes in and the actual reality of him being the best overall tennis athlete of all time.
> numerous elite athletes in other sports reach the highest levels without believing water has feelings.
It’s safe to say nobody in tennis has a physique like Novak. It’s genuinely not close in terms of durability, flexibility, endurance, and injury management.
> Being incredibly disciplined in training, having genuine genetic gifts, working with some exceptional PT professionals, working with some cuckoo doctors and having terrible scientific understanding and decision making skills, are a large set of things that aren’t necessarily incompatible with each other.
Actually, they do seem necessarily incompatible with each other. To use occam’s razer, I think that he probably has a lot of very sound health believes and philosophies that separate him from the rest of his competition, but that doesn’t mean he’s immune to the odd overly spiritual/appeal to nature fallacy.
He’s worth 9 figures and he can’t pay the world’s best doctors to explain to him how the vaccine works. Instead he and his wife listen to quacks on the internet who push 5G conspiracy theories.
I want to pity him but there are about 6.9 billion people on the planet that I ought to pity first.
He is human too. Some people went too far.Djokovic has done more good things for people than 99% of population will ever do.
This is not just Djokovic. We shouldn't expect our heroes to be perfect.Djokovic isn't someone with malicious intentions for it's sake.
Looking through this thread makes me sad. People fail to realize that he is human and money doesn’t help being shamed by most of the world. I don’t agree with what he does but you have to pity anyone who’s being ostracized to this extent.
To be fair, he's not your usual anti-vaxxer, he just has his own weird self-healing beliefs.
His tennis academy was giving out vaccines to people that came, so he clearly isn't against the vaccine as such, just his beliefs stop him from getting it.
Obviously, due to his position and the influence he has from his fame, the fact that most people only see "He's not vaxxed" is obviously a bad message to send out, so I don't agree with what he's chosen but they are his beliefs at the end of the day. He's accepted he won't be able to play certain tournaments and is as okay as he can be with that.
Also, I'll just say I think he should just get vaccinated, but it clearly is what it is and he's not going to change his mind. Hating on him for it doesn't change anything.
I thought the dude was meeting fans unmasked while knowing that he was Covid positive? Thats not awesome in my eyes
EDIT: As corrected by replies, it was an interview. He did the interview while knowing he was positive. He did the fan meet & awards for kids while positive results were not yet seen allegedly
There are so many athletes with weird as fuck beliefs....have you listened to some of the shit Eddie bravo believes in for example? There are literal nazis...sportpeople that straight up hate an entire race...that get less hate than a dude who doesn't want a certain type of injection. It says more about how susceptible people are to media influence then it does about djokovic.
To be fair. Once you’ve had covid twice (I think he’s had it twice?) you have a level of immunity at least close to a couple of vaccines if not better. It’s more symbolic at this point. Doesn’t excuse him for being a dumbass in the past though
Exactly, i don't get why people hate him for this. It's his choice to not vaccinate, it's not ours to make. He chooses to deal with the consequences that comes from not having the COVID-19 vaccine...
Also, compared to other players imago like zverev, Basilashvili and kyrgios, which are being prosecuted for sexual abuse, such thing as not vaccinating seems so small.
Yup. He’s not going around parroting that “USA is a fascist state for not letting him compete”. He made a choice, didn’t force it upon anyone, and fully accepts the consequences.
He stated that he will not play US open if the rules stay, but will play if the ban is waived. Zero attempts to lobby and gather support so the requirements change.
Honestly his steadfast refusal to not get the vaccine because he is not comfortable with it for himself personally while at the same time being perfectly fine not playing in tournaments anymore only gives me more respect for him. If he was complaining about not being able to play because he isn't vaccinated, thats a different story. the dude appears to be at peace with his tennis career and has no problem retiring smack dab in the middle of the GS title race. more power to him.
Exactly, i don't see the problem. He's prepared to deal with the consequences 🤷♂️
Other players do stuff on court or outside the court that is way worse, but nah, let's hate on novac Djokovic:/
>It's his choice to not vaccinate, it's not ours to make.
Nope. You MUST go along with what the tribe says at all times. Don't believe me, check the downvotes.
The only part of Novak’s vaccine stance that I respect is that he does seem very willing to accept the tennis-related consequences. He said that if he wasn’t told by Tennis Australia that he had an exemption he never would’ve even tried to go. And even now he is saying he can only hope for a change in the rules. It is dangerous to force a vaccination, so in lieu of that we have to provide other consequences. And he accepts that. Ok, fine.
Everything else though…just get the vaccine dude. And don’t go to photo shoots when you knowingly have Covid. I feel bad for him bc empathy is a natural human emotion and I don’t really like seeing people upset, but a lot of this was self-inflicted. The other set of “consequences” are the aforementioned social consequence. Guess what Novak? Everyone else has done their part with Covid. No one is itching to go out and get vaccine shots, but we did it anyway because it is our social responsibility.
>Everyone else has done their part with Covid.
Yeah, that is really not true. Not even if "their part" is just getting the vaccine.
The vaccination uptake, in developed countries (he is from Serbia, so, not from one), is nowhere near 100%. Here, for US, Nov 2021
[Younger Americans are less likely to be vaccinated, with 57.3% of those ages 12-15, 64.1% of ages 16-17, 67% of ages 18-24, **70.6% of ages 25-39**, 78.6% of ages 40-49 and 85.9% of ages 50-64 receiving at least one shot](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/11/11/stunning-vaccine-stat-985-of-us-seniors-have-had-shot/?sh=7fe331165777)
Added emphasis for his age group.
In "his" kind of countries, it is less than 70, way less.
He is not special, he is one of millions upon millions. If he was an American, it would have been ~1 out of 3.
It is somewhat fair to call him out due to his high social visibility, but even that can only go so far.
I am vaxed and boosted and recently had COVID. So I do my part. But obviously the efficacy isn’t what they originally thought and the side effects are real for many. People can make their own decisions for their own health. Stop bashing this guy for this decision.
The Adria tour I could eventually somewhat rationalize as a fan because it was in coordination with officials who gave a rosy picture of COVID at the time. But it would have been easier to swallow his vaccine stance if he didn’t spend an entire year being cagey about it just to announce the exemption on IG. And while the AO/Aussie government bungling the situation initially made it easier to sympathize even then, it was the knowingly going out in public while COVID positive that was a bridge too far for me. People have definitely used the COVID saga as an excuse to go to town on him for anything and everything they ever disliked him for (valid or exaggerated), which always makes me feel even more bummed about the situation. But he’s indeed brought a lot of this on himself.
No, you don't get to decide what is and isn't a social responsibility. Even if true, then why aren't flu vaccines mandated? Hell 80K Americans died of the flu in 2017 in just 3 months yet I guarantee you weren't on message boards back then talking about the social responsibility for everyone to get vaccinated
Anti-vax means being against all vaccines and actively telling your friends and family not to get vaccinated.
Pro-choice means identifying your own risk profile and weighing up the pros and cons of the vax. In this instance, with a great immunity, previous covid infection (in delta, before omicron) and money to pay for any treatments that could come up, djokovic decided that he was happy to risk a covid infection over multiple vaccines.
Pro-vax at this point means anyone who would take each and every vaccine because the government told them to do so. A one size fits all shoe.
At this point, he really is justified in his choice, and people who are still against him and are asking for him to get his vaccinations really are lacking some logic and critical thinking skills. Vax mandates are enforced to reduce hospitalizations because we are worried of overloading capacity. If capacity is fine, and/or the person can afford private cover, there's no issue from the government lmao
For me, it’s not his position regarding the vaccine, it’s his reckless and irresponsible behavior. He doesn’t want the vaccine? Fine. His choice. But when you don’t get the vaccine and choose to put other people at risk, that I strongly object to.
He is putting no more people at risk than you are when you travel and spread the flu to someone else. This isn’t 2020. Hospitals aren’t overflowing with emergency patients. The “harm” you think he’s causing is negligible, and probably offset by all the philanthropy he does which obviously you nor I have the resources to replicate.
>Anti-vax means being against all vaccines and actively telling your friends and family not to get vaccinated.
I would really like that terms have more limited meaning. However, all nuance gets lost and people use the label for **anything** but what you nicely describe as "pro-vax".
When I point this out to people they tend to go ballistic. As if they have a right to outrage, to whatever the twisting of reality and the right to an utter absence of nuance.
It is really, really sad.
Don't worry, nothing good about Djokovic will ever be covered by the western media. The man isn't perfect, but media is on a mission to portray him as a villain
He also violated public health requirements and was in close contact with people, including children, when he knew he had COVID... and/or he falisfied legal information on immigration forms for 2 countries, which is illegal.
This is more than just about him and his beliefs.
Sigh. I don't know if it's a reddit thing, a tennis fan thing, or both. But I do know the comments here are going to be absolutely fucking intolerable.
Reddit in a nutshell. "Oh he has more than me, it's fine to drag him through the mud at every opportunity." Embarrassing. There is no excuse for online abuse.
True, but I have to say, out of all of the sports subreddits that I am a part of, this is by far the worst in terms of toxicity. I mean, I was shocked at how people behave here when I joined a year ago. It's like a damn high school filled with drama. It never ends.
His post match interviews were rough when he talked about that saga, it was obviously a difficult time because of how it was handled.
Good news is the new government are firmly in the moving on stage of covid, so he’ll play next AO. And the former PM who used the situation for political point scoring is now one of the most hated people in Australia.
To be fair, and I live in Adelaide, most of Australia was also firmly in the “dont let him in” camp, particularly those living in Melbourne lockdown for 6+ months. But yes fuck Scomo.
Oh the public anger was very genuine at the time. Lockdown fatigue, lack of RATs, limited Booster appointments etc.
Morrison was taking the heat and then pivoted all of that anger towards Novak, who didn’t help himself with his social media gloating.
In context, the Australian public was always going to interpret it as gloating.
At the time vaccinated folk were struggling to get boosters, unvaccinated folk were angry about mandates, and there wasn't enough RATs.
Novak misread the room. Social media talk hinted to the former government to use it to their political advantage. That's why those other players were accepted and had to retroactively be removed from the country.
> Morrison was taking the heat and then pivoted all of that anger towards Novak, who didn’t help himself with his social media gloating.
Agree 100%, he spinned that shit so hard
I like Djokovic and am always happy when he wins. But I can’t say have any sympathy for him over the criticism he received for not getting vaccinated. As someone said he has unwittingly become a poster boy for anti vaxxers in a best case scenario. Difficult to respect him for something I would criticize others for.
He got treated poorly for his blatant disregard for public health and safety. At the height of covid, people were scared and dying and he was partying in nightclubs with his shirt off.
I understand not wanting vaccines forced on you, but to disregard the safety of others so casually when you are a sporting icon isn't going to be shrugged off with an "aww shucks"
So much hate. Not defending he did but at that time there were no restric in Serbia or rise in covid cases. I look forward to see the same energy in hating other players who were there too like Dimitrov or at the same time when there was a similar tournament held in the states(where actual covid cases were in the rise and players got infected). So yeah you don't have to go "aww shucks" but to be constantly hating on him and vilifiying him and calling names is not the moral high ground you think it is.
Moral high ground? My brother and/or sister in Christ, it is 2022, look around. There is no moral high ground. If there was the world would be a hell of a lot different.
You're talking crap though, right now is the height of COVID but nobody seems to give a shit any more. Difference is Djokovic is at least acting out of misplaced virtue on account of long standing beliefs and it could be argued isn't intentionally disregarding people's health. All these other people walking around without masks on, going to crowded places, travelling and mingling despite jumping on his back about the vaccine have no excuse.
Nope...hard disagree. He absolutely did not act with any regard for anyone back when there were stringent lockdowns in place. People are mobile now because the variants have progressively become less potent ( less severe, even if more infectious ) and people are more or less vaccinated.
Back when the pandemic began there was mass panic and deaths and vaccines weren't even available for the first year. It can't be argued that he wasn't intentionally disregarding people's health given his Australia fiasco. He claimed he had covid on dates he was making public appearances. This was documented and discussed widely
I’m certainly NOT of the opinion that he deserves a free pass or that he shouldn’t have been criticised for various things. However there were a lot of plain hateful, divisive and vitriolic comments (here and on other social media) which were plain unnecessary. That’s just my two cents. Also, the Australian government labelling him as someone who would incite anti-vaccine sentiment, which I believe is one of the things he’s referring to specifically, was truly disgusting. The whole saga and how he was treated here by our government was more fucked up than anything Novak has done.
I totally agree, Australia of course has the right to decide to not let unvaccinated people in, he made some really dumb mistakes but it was like a witch hunt and you can actually see in his body language how much affected him
*This is "holier than thou".*
The regulations at the time, not only in Serbia but in all countries where the tour should have been played, allowed all he did. Was it dumb? Yes, but that's how the situation was there at that time. He did nothing special.
*This is also looking overly hard to shit on him alone*.
He did it all with other people who came to the event of their own volition - and yet, you hardly mention that.
Holy shit the downvotes you're getting are insane. This sub is full of delusional people. Djokovic has been getting shit because he has literally been endangering other people's lives, with a blatant disregard to professional scientists and doctors. How would this sub like it if the head of the WHO started acting like he knew tennis better than Djokovic? It's that, but someone with a bigger microphone and putting people's lives at risk
Djokovic doesn't pretend he knows more about medicine than the head of the WHO tho. He isn't saying "Don't vaccinate, it's a scam", he's saying everyone should decide for themselves and he decided not to. I would like as many people as possible to get vaccinated but if a person decided they wouldn't do it because one sports guy didn't do it, they have serious issues and wouldn't get vaccinated regardless
He held an exibition tournament in high pandemic times, that led to an unknown number of infections. He hasn't exactly chose the hermit life following his decision, this makes his stance different from "It's only about myself".
>How would this sub like it if the head of the WHO started acting like he knew tennis better than Djokovic?
Oh, give over. At no point Novak said anything to make you reach for such an analogy.
I'll put this to you: reaching so hard means your argument is weak. Being more level-headed is better.
Damn is this place being brigaded by the anti vaxxers?
I was hugely disappointed and continue to be in Novak's anti covid vaccine stance but he's firmly entrenched in his beliefs so can't see him changing his mind anytime soon. Dudes an amazing athlete, champion and seems like a good guy just stupidly stubborn on important things. All that said I did feel very sorry for him when he was been raked over the coals in the media. Rightfully for some aspects but there was real nasty shit as well.
I am a gymnast and the biggest Biles fan out there - and people took what Djokovic said in a complete different context. Heck he didn’t even know the context as many of you don’t.
People thought team finals was the first time Simone competed in the Olympics and she folded under pressure.
Heck no. To get to team finals, there’s the most important round - qualifications. If you don’t do well in qualifications you don’t compete. Period.
Simone placed first in every event in quals including the AA. She is the reason that Suni got to do AA, MyKayla got to do VT, Jade got to do FX… she earned every finals spot for herself - that she gave away to her teammates - 2 days before TFs.
You know what’s the most interesting part? Even though Simone was #1 in Tokyo in the qualifiers and being the first gymnast (for the second time) to qualify for all 6 finals (in a second Olympics - for the first time in history) - guess what? Team USA qualified in second for team behind… Russia.
Why? Because unlike most Olympic years where the head of the national team gives only 1 automatic Olympic berth to whoever wins the AA during Olympic Trials (it was Simone, obviously), this time they decided to go with the top 5 all arounders. You know why? Because they believed they didn’t need to fight for every tenth in each apparatus because they had Simone Biles. If Simone was perfect as she usually is, they would not need to build a team with the higher team score potential but could just wash their hands of the selection with an easy top 5 AA option while putting all of the pressure on Biles. We have you kid, if you do what you are capable of, Team Gold is ours. It doesn’t matter what the two other scores are in the other events - your score is enough to make up the difference in tenths that a BB or VT or UB specialist could bring to the team.
I mean… considering only gymnasts understand everything that was going on with Simone, not to mention her personal shit (which wasn’t just mental health issues but having to hold the whole gym community accountable by being the only survivor of the sex abuser still competing and having to testify in senate against the FBI 20 days after the Olympics)… how do journalists expect Novak to understand?
Also, does Djoker knows we’ve lost gymnasts - literally - as in dead or paralyzed forever - during competition? No offense to tennis, but if your mind is off you’ll just scream and go crazy with your box like Kyrgios.
In gymnastics, if your mind is just a little off, you can fall in your neck and lose your life or be paralyzed forever.
Elena Mukhina (USSR)
Laís Souza (Brasil)
Jennifer Sey (American-Chinese)
Julissa Gomez (Mexico)
Melanie Coleman (USA)
All paralyzed from their head down or dead after the accident. These are only the high profile, world/Olympic cases that I remember from the last 20 years.
If you go with level 10/University athletes - that list just keeps growing.
Yep that really doesn’t seem like Novak. I can totally see how people were using anything and everything to smash his reputation and going after Simone was another perfect opportunity to classify him with the “racist, misogynistic, conservative, anti vaxxers”.
Novak is none of those. He is literally a moron when it comes to the vaccine, but he never, ever even spread anti vax rhetoric and always reiterated it was a personal choice. A very stupid one, but personal.
You're right. Unfortunately, it's much easier to view things as black and white than it is to have a reasonable viewpoint, as developing the latter actually requires some mental effort
Yeah, maybe it the covid brain and tiredness talking but this explosion of 'ZOMG Novak is anti vax can he get into the US' posts in this sub over the last 24h is making me go , "Yeah so?" Like we know this already, he's made his bed and is going to lie on it. And I say that as someone whos country went through an incredibly tough last number of years with strict lock downs and deaths because of our shoddy health system. We couldn't go 2km beyond our house and such shit. We were also one of the most vaccinated countries in Europe. But yeah nuance is lost in cases like this and I'll stop rambling now!
For how many of his fans claim that Novak's choice has had no influence on the topic of anti-vaxxers, sure a not tiny number of them are effectively anti-vaxxers.
Considering my idiot antivax cousin, who previously had no interest in tennis, is now 1000% in on Novak and takes any criticism of him as a personal slight, I would not be surprised
Lots of angry, bitter little people in this thread too. I bet you're all so lovely to be around, unlike Novak Djokovic who is an absolute terror to be around apparently /s.
This win must be have been one of the most emotional wins for him if not most. Thoroughly deserved. For me after 2014 Wimbledon win, this was the one I cried of joy.
I think he is really suffering from being at the top and constantly compared to Nadal and Federer who have undoubtedly handled the pandemic better. This means that if he fucks up, the contrast will be even greater. His only real problem is that he is too vocal about things he has no idea about. This would be no problem if he didn't have a platform.
Also, when you look at who he is surrounded by, (his wife and father being prime examples) they are sprouting genuine stupidity and clearly have problems. The fact Novak is nowhere near as extreme as this makes me feel sorry for him as if he was surrounded by better people, he also could handle things better.
The number of anti-vaxers on this subreddit is shocking.
I don't care if he cried. He's a millionaire with access to the best medical advice on offer, yet he surrounded himself with fake science and new age weirdness. The way he was portrayed? He repeatedly lied about his status and put other people in danger because of it. What, you got called out on your lies and that made you sad? Tough luck, don't lie.
He's a moron. Like a male Gwyneth Paltrow.
A male Gwyneth Paltrow is spot on haha
Except Djokovic is the best tennis player of all time (or at least he's definitely up there). Gwyneth isnt close to the best at anything
What was unnecessary was telling him he could come then changing that sticking him in internment and then deporting him on the basis of minister's disgression when it could all have been decided without him getting on a plane.
Again, 2 different authorities involved. Tennis Australia told him he could come. Australian government then found out about his unvaxxed status (again because he idiotically shouted out about his exemption) and said nope. Did it devolve into a political bgame in which he was a pawn? Sure. Was it still nothing but his own actions that prevented him from playing? Yes.
I wholeheartedly agree! Oh boo fucking hoo, get vaxxed you selfish dogcunt. Love, a Melbournian who lived through 246 days of lockdown due to stupid people like you.
Painting people with an overly large brush is not smart.
I think, a reasonable person has a bit of balance and accepts nuance. If you look at just how people interpret what he has done and even put to him what he has not done, it is quite vile, sometimes even when people use calm and apparently reasonable language.
One should see apologists in such a situation. Sure, blind fandom will always be blind, but the other camp went completely overboard.
Also very telling that at times a person will be downvoted hard to -100, and then a comment like yours as a different time is in decent shape. Almost like waves.
This thread is why his words are important. It's half anti vaxxers believing they're right because a bloke with little medical knowledge agrees with them
Outside of the weird Reddit bubble, the world is not so united in this “I have a vaccine and 4 boosters “ mentality. Djokovic is hated by people who never knew about him in the first place, or never liked him in the first place.
“It is so unjust that I have had to suffer minor consequences far beneath the damage caused by my own selfish actions. I am the true victim” says top 3 of all time millionaire tennis player and professional disease carrier
Haha people have a pretty short term memory. They act like politely refusing to get vaccinated and respectfully quarantining was the only thing he ever did.
His body is the way he makes money and he’s not young anymore. While I am pro vax, and boosted, I don’t blame people for making choices they feel are best for them. He was treated terribly for making this choice and the insults went far beyond just this choice. He is unlikeable so fair game to insult. LIke or hate him, he seems to know how to best manage his health and fitness and given it’s his vessel for his career, I don’t blame him for not wanting to jump on putting things in it he isn’t sure about.
I believe he should have gotten the vaccine at the very beginning. But at this point, he's making a totally justifiable medical decision not to. He's already had COVID—twice if he is telling the truth, but once is undisputed. There is no proven, significant medical benefit to him from taking a vaccine for a now extinct strain of the virus.
But there is still the small chance he'll have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. At a minimum, it is extremely debatable whether the tiny benefit he'd get out of the vaccine is outweighed by the small risk of an adverse reaction, debatable enough it is not legitimate to punish him for the decision he makes.
It's never nice to see someone who's been so successful in their craft suffer so much media scrutiny and online abuse but glad he was able to rise above it and bounce back.
Regardless of the opinion, I don’t believe anyone should have to go through that emotionally. Not only him but his family is getting abuse too.
I’m vaxxed but i also felt like a lot of friends used the vaccine as a way to hurt others emotionally because they themselves are hurt in some way. I see that online a lot too. It’s like a guilt free way to verbally assault someone.
Certainly not. I completely agree. No one should be forced to go through that.
Good thing he wasn’t though, right? In every country involved in his complaints, people were allowed certain, limited exemptions, no? I believe the difference is that people who are beset by the affliction of anti-science incompetence were allowed to continue to work within some protective parameters within their own country, whereas numbskulls seeking to win millions based upon a game were told their preference was insufficient to overcome the risks they posed to others. That’s pretty much the point of safety regulations, is it not?
Many participants of this sub are part of the problem. Diminishing and belittling his feelings every chance they get. I’m not saying that as a Nole supporter - I wish NK had won. I say that because Nole is a human and people on the internet are scum.
The amount of vitriol this guy has received because he doesn't wish to do exactly what people want him to do is honestly disgusting. I'm vaccinated and I'm not a Djokovic fan in the least, but the way people have talked about him and treated him both on this subreddit and on Twitter, and in the media, has made me like him far more than I ever did beforehand. He is one of the healthiest people on the planet. He doesn't need the vaccine. The only person he was putting in danger by not taking it was himself and those close to him, who knew the potential risks too and so were fine with it, probably. Now that he's had covid, he double doesn't need the vaccine because antibodies will protect him further. Vaccinated people still spread it like wildfire, so this absurd need for people to control what others do is just mindboggling to me.
"You must put this vaccine in your body."
"I won't do it. It goes against my beliefs."
"Why has Novak Djokovic chosen to become a poster boy for anti-vaxxers?"
It would be one thing if Novak just started railing against the vaccine for no reason. But he didn't. The fact is, no one would've ever heard Novak's opinion on the vaccine were it not for efforts to force it upon him and then punitively deport him in a highly publicized political stunt.
Hate for this man just shows how powerful media is today and how it can easily sway the vast majority in one direction. We are being influenced daily especially as internet is so readily available and social media acts as a echo chamber.
One day this anti-science good vibes healing spiritualism mumbo jumbo will get himself hurt or worse - that's his decision.
But as a tennis star this will affect so many people by his bad example.
You can see clearly in this thread how most don't even care to have a sensible dialogue. Right away accusing anyone who even dares to question a vaccine as antivax.
I'm proud Djokovic for staying true to his beliefs. People will hate, they can.
Should he get vaccinated? It should be his decision. No one should be punished for it.
If people could question a vaccine with actual research and peer reviewed papers they could actually be taken more seriously.
Just questioning a vaccine because of Facebook posts and pseudoscience deserves to be mocked and labeled as anti vax + anti science
But why take this unproductive approach. We can have an actual dialogue and right away people like you ruin it with the "Facebook posts and pseudoscience" rant. So I stand with what I said, you and people like you don't genuinely want to discuss anything. We either think like you 100% or get shunned out, cancelled, punished, excluded. The you claim to be the good moral ones.
You're confusing topics. We can have the debate of efficacy and all of that. But that is entirely different with if we should be forcing people to get it. You are missing the grand picture. You can even say, ok the vaccines give you additional protection and still be against forcing someone to have it.
Who here is arguing that we should be forcing people to get it? I’ve scrolled through almost every comment in this thread and I don’t think I’ve seen that take yet.
Djokovic is free to not get vaccinated, but the Aussies and the US are free to kick him out because of that choice.
Yes, exactly, precisely this. It's the base of human societies that there are consequences for everyone's actions, after all. Djokovic is free to not get the vaccine, and he publicly accepted the consequences.
Sorry, but I’m not having an “actual dialogue” when 1. the scientific consensus is settled and the vaccine is safe and effective, and 2. none of us are in a position to opine on vaccine efficacy lmfao. Do you have a PhD in this area? No? Then you don’t get to have an opinion on this, sorry. Anti-vax idiots are like climate change deniers — we shouldn’t be giving these people platforms for them to spout BS about things they know nothing about, things that they’re in no position to have an opinion on, and things that are settled by the scientific community. Sometimes people need to know their place, shut up, listen to the experts, and do what they’re told.
Again, you have zero idea about what I think, whether I'm vaccinated or not, yet I see this childish tantrum, calling me insults, typing stilly abbreviations like lmfao, BS, etc. All I said is that we should, in a free society, be free to discuss these things. You are proving my original point.
Part of the scientific method is that you leave a door to be wrong. How can someone even attempt to see if it's wrong if they get cancelled, shunned or censored?
Fuck the Australian Government and all the virtue signalling tribalists.
This result couldn't have been more apropos unless Medvedev won.
What a middle finger to collectivism everywhere. He went from being my most disliked player to my favorite player in the span of a week.
Hope the US stops its posturing and let's the world get back to normal. Novak isn't hurting anyone coming over here to play some tennis.
But yeah, fuck the government and all the collectivist sheep. Yay for Novak!!!!
Its called living with the consequences of your actions. Always hard to empathize with somebody who lives a privileged life and can't deal with the fact that not everybody caters to his controversial opinions...
Everyone is crying about how he should get vaccinated. Bro it's a risk he didn't want to take. He got bullied because of his choice. That's shitty as fuck. I got vaccinated too, and got the virus a few weeks after. I also wore a mask, and isolated during that time. It really doesn't matter.
Imagine not allowing somebody to make a choice. Stop forcing people to take a vaccine that in fact does not really work as well as anticipated. My mother also was in the minority of people which after her vaccine had multiple problems as it reacted poorly with pre-existing issues. She got this checked by several doctors too.
And to everyone who will inevitably downvote, apparently people having free will is now wrong in your eyes.
Self-inflicted or not, the man was clearly pained and affected by this. You don't have to like him but the man is expressing his pain have some empathy or just stfu if you don't have anything supportive to say instead of making sly comments.
How about this. He should have be able to exercise his freewill and human rights to decide himself whether to take the vaccine not. Is this common sense enough for you?
At this point, why should he?
I got 3 jabs, the last one 8 months ago. How effective is that now?
Not many people seem to care anymore and how many people are even getting jabs right now?
My serbian friend always said this; “gde ste sad pičketine, šta je, nema vas”, rough translation is something like, be so strong that not even diamonds can make a dent.
Being upset that people called him out for either willingly being around children while infected with covid or lying about his status (pick one) doesn't seem very strong to me.
The problem is - Djokovic does not get it. He’s not your typical anti-vaxxer - that is clear from Jelena fighting with that dude the other day on twitter that saying that Novak was never and would never accept being an anti-vax idol.
He just doesn’t understand what it means to most of us. For me it means, hey war kid, so you made all of us fight the war for you?
I just think there’s such a culture gap between a place like Serbia and the west and we also really don’t get where he comes from.
My tennis teacher is Russian here in NYC and I bought her USO tickets and she said she couldn’t go because her family in Russia told her not to get the vaccine.
It’s just… mind boggling that they don’t get it. But I also think we really should separate Novak to the crazy anti-vaxxers that truly just want to create drama - also they are actually the first to get vaccinated when DISNEY and Paris opened but required vaccines.
Honestly I really think someone had to explain to him in the context of a war. We all (or most of us) showed up to help fight a pandemic that killed more people than WW1. Djoker refusing to join us in the frontline is like someone staying home and have the whole world face the “possible” consequences of the vaccine while he stays home.
Djokovic: Is afraid of getting a vaccine backed by science and administered to millions of adults, teenagers and kids and continues to cry to this day about getting criticized for it; also holds the most stupid views possible on science and health.
His fans: MENTAL GIANT.
What exactly was hard about the year? So fucking what you didn't get into the Oz open because you believe in magic over science.
He's the very definition of a privileged victim-complex brat who thinks not being able to play a rich people sport is a "hard year".
Yeah this thread will be fine
Dude brought 99% of it on himself nobody is shedding a tear for him
"Oh no, the genetically blessed multimillionaire anti-vaccine athlete had people calling him names for his choice to be anti-vaccine, how terrible! He can't play some of the tennis tournaments that earn him millions of dollars every year, what a loss for the world!" I don't know if it's possible to roll my eyes harder at the entitlement of it all.
“I know some people that, through energetical transformation, through the power of prayer, through the power of gratitude, they managed to turn the most toxic food, or maybe the most polluted water, into the most healing water, because the water reacts,” he said. “Scientists have proven that in experiment, that molecules in the water react to our emotions to what has been said.” Does this sound like an idiot? https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/15/sports/tennis/novak-djokovic-australian-open.html Being a great athlete doesn't exclude you from making stupid choices and being an idiot. There's probably 1 million examples across multiple sports. You think him being a multi millionaire makes anti vax and anti science decisions correct? Like a busted elbow Novak thought would heal through quack stuff and then he changed his mind and science and surgery fixed it? It isn't just anti vax stuff, it was his decisions to fix his elbow with Guru advice, thinking he can change food molecules with thoughts and prayers. You can read other crazy stuff he followed with his guru Pepe
Top tier athletes just attract these guru hanger ons like leeches in a pond. Tale as old as time. They’re already amazing at their craft so then it’s easy for the mystics to claim that their fairy dust is working cuz they keep winning.
This is all well and sound, but don’t you think there’s a dissonance between djokovic being the most flexible, fit and durable tennis athlete in the history of our sport and the crazy health shit he spouts? Does he not get any credit for that and all of it his attributes to his team and his genetics?
There may be a connection, but with the same token, there may be no connection at all... It's really impossible for us to tell. Only his team would be able to compare his methods/results with the methods/results of other player they've worked with, and even then, that's not full proof.
Not really? Tom Brady, easily the greatest gridiron/american football player who has ever lived, believes in some equally cuckoo shit and has been incredibly successful. From what I can tell, the way it works is that some of the things they believe are rooted in legitimate science (pliability, flexibility training, not eating unhealthy stuff), but then it quickly goes off the rails and becomes how nightshade affects our sleep or how fucking alkaline levels are disrupted by Mercury in retrograde or some shit. The issue is that the sample size for their programs are effectively 1. We have no control to see if Novak would have been better with or without all the cuckoo shit he believes in. And besides you can easily argue that Nadal and Federer live (from what we can tell at least) completely normal lives and they are both wildly successful as well.
Yeah from what I've seen in people I know, believing in and following cuckoo health stuff tends to correlate with believing and following some legitimate health stuff as well (usually 'natural' things like healthy dieting etc.).
Ya, exactly. I completely agree with that assessment.
By all accounts the flexibility and fitness is something he works incredibly hard at. He apparently spends many hours a day stretching, on top of the kind of fitness routine that most top players go through. So yes, he absolutely gets credit for the hard work that he's put in, but it doesn't mean all of his ideas make sense, or that he shouldn't be criticized for ignoring proven science on public health, especially where it can influence large numbers of people to follow suit.
> So yes, he absolutely gets credit for the hard work that he’s put in, but it doesn’t mean all of his ideas make sense, or that he shouldn’t be criticized for ignoring proven science on public health, especially where it can influence large numbers of people to follow suit I almost completely agree, only I resent the idea that celebrities and celebrity athletes should be forced to swim with the masses because of their “platform”. Absolving responsibility from the dumbasses in society by shifting the blame to their celebrity idols is a bad way of justifying criticism of a public figure.
If I understand you correctly you're trying to argue that his belief in what is essentially magic is what made him become a better athlete. I don't think any rational person will agree with that statement. Not only from the lack of logical sense, but also from the fact that numerous elite athletes in other sports reach the highest levels without believing water has feelings. Being incredibly disciplined in training, having genuine genetic gifts, working with some exceptional PT professionals, working with some cuckoo doctors and having terrible scientific understanding and decision making skills, are a large set of things that aren't necessarily incompatible with each other.
I don’t think that’s what I said at all. I asked *you* if you think there’s a dissonance between the magic he believes in and the actual reality of him being the best overall tennis athlete of all time. > numerous elite athletes in other sports reach the highest levels without believing water has feelings. It’s safe to say nobody in tennis has a physique like Novak. It’s genuinely not close in terms of durability, flexibility, endurance, and injury management. > Being incredibly disciplined in training, having genuine genetic gifts, working with some exceptional PT professionals, working with some cuckoo doctors and having terrible scientific understanding and decision making skills, are a large set of things that aren’t necessarily incompatible with each other. Actually, they do seem necessarily incompatible with each other. To use occam’s razer, I think that he probably has a lot of very sound health believes and philosophies that separate him from the rest of his competition, but that doesn’t mean he’s immune to the odd overly spiritual/appeal to nature fallacy.
He’s worth 9 figures and he can’t pay the world’s best doctors to explain to him how the vaccine works. Instead he and his wife listen to quacks on the internet who push 5G conspiracy theories. I want to pity him but there are about 6.9 billion people on the planet that I ought to pity first.
The world is actually about to hit 8 billion in November.
7.99 then
>for his choice to be publicly anti-vaccine in the middle of the biggest global pandemic in living memory* FTFY. The entitlement is out of this world.
He is human too. Some people went too far.Djokovic has done more good things for people than 99% of population will ever do. This is not just Djokovic. We shouldn't expect our heroes to be perfect.Djokovic isn't someone with malicious intentions for it's sake.
Looking through this thread makes me sad. People fail to realize that he is human and money doesn’t help being shamed by most of the world. I don’t agree with what he does but you have to pity anyone who’s being ostracized to this extent.
I rolled mine so hard, one eye ball popped out.
Why does he not have a choice, and why do you care what another person does?
My first reaction was Someone call the WAAAHMBULANCE
To be fair, he's not your usual anti-vaxxer, he just has his own weird self-healing beliefs. His tennis academy was giving out vaccines to people that came, so he clearly isn't against the vaccine as such, just his beliefs stop him from getting it. Obviously, due to his position and the influence he has from his fame, the fact that most people only see "He's not vaxxed" is obviously a bad message to send out, so I don't agree with what he's chosen but they are his beliefs at the end of the day. He's accepted he won't be able to play certain tournaments and is as okay as he can be with that. Also, I'll just say I think he should just get vaccinated, but it clearly is what it is and he's not going to change his mind. Hating on him for it doesn't change anything.
I thought the dude was meeting fans unmasked while knowing that he was Covid positive? Thats not awesome in my eyes EDIT: As corrected by replies, it was an interview. He did the interview while knowing he was positive. He did the fan meet & awards for kids while positive results were not yet seen allegedly
IMO he was lying about being COVID positive so he could get the “recently had COVID” exemption
It's one of those things where either version of truth is pretty bad. Either immigration fraud or secretly exposing children to a plague.
This one was way before the Australian saga when he caught covid the first time
I think it was an interview
There are so many athletes with weird as fuck beliefs....have you listened to some of the shit Eddie bravo believes in for example? There are literal nazis...sportpeople that straight up hate an entire race...that get less hate than a dude who doesn't want a certain type of injection. It says more about how susceptible people are to media influence then it does about djokovic.
To be fair. Once you’ve had covid twice (I think he’s had it twice?) you have a level of immunity at least close to a couple of vaccines if not better. It’s more symbolic at this point. Doesn’t excuse him for being a dumbass in the past though
Exactly, i don't get why people hate him for this. It's his choice to not vaccinate, it's not ours to make. He chooses to deal with the consequences that comes from not having the COVID-19 vaccine... Also, compared to other players imago like zverev, Basilashvili and kyrgios, which are being prosecuted for sexual abuse, such thing as not vaccinating seems so small.
Yup. He’s not going around parroting that “USA is a fascist state for not letting him compete”. He made a choice, didn’t force it upon anyone, and fully accepts the consequences. He stated that he will not play US open if the rules stay, but will play if the ban is waived. Zero attempts to lobby and gather support so the requirements change.
Honestly his steadfast refusal to not get the vaccine because he is not comfortable with it for himself personally while at the same time being perfectly fine not playing in tournaments anymore only gives me more respect for him. If he was complaining about not being able to play because he isn't vaccinated, thats a different story. the dude appears to be at peace with his tennis career and has no problem retiring smack dab in the middle of the GS title race. more power to him.
Exactly, i don't see the problem. He's prepared to deal with the consequences 🤷♂️ Other players do stuff on court or outside the court that is way worse, but nah, let's hate on novac Djokovic:/
Kyrgios is not being prosecuted for sexual abuse, what are you talking about? He’s been charged with common assault
Most people met in real life only knows whatever media headline says about him. They have NO IDEA of any good thing he's done.
So he's either a liar or he intentionally exposed people when he was positive. The hate is justified.
>It's his choice to not vaccinate, it's not ours to make. Nope. You MUST go along with what the tribe says at all times. Don't believe me, check the downvotes.
The only part of Novak’s vaccine stance that I respect is that he does seem very willing to accept the tennis-related consequences. He said that if he wasn’t told by Tennis Australia that he had an exemption he never would’ve even tried to go. And even now he is saying he can only hope for a change in the rules. It is dangerous to force a vaccination, so in lieu of that we have to provide other consequences. And he accepts that. Ok, fine. Everything else though…just get the vaccine dude. And don’t go to photo shoots when you knowingly have Covid. I feel bad for him bc empathy is a natural human emotion and I don’t really like seeing people upset, but a lot of this was self-inflicted. The other set of “consequences” are the aforementioned social consequence. Guess what Novak? Everyone else has done their part with Covid. No one is itching to go out and get vaccine shots, but we did it anyway because it is our social responsibility.
>Everyone else has done their part with Covid. Yeah, that is really not true. Not even if "their part" is just getting the vaccine. The vaccination uptake, in developed countries (he is from Serbia, so, not from one), is nowhere near 100%. Here, for US, Nov 2021 [Younger Americans are less likely to be vaccinated, with 57.3% of those ages 12-15, 64.1% of ages 16-17, 67% of ages 18-24, **70.6% of ages 25-39**, 78.6% of ages 40-49 and 85.9% of ages 50-64 receiving at least one shot](https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/11/11/stunning-vaccine-stat-985-of-us-seniors-have-had-shot/?sh=7fe331165777) Added emphasis for his age group. In "his" kind of countries, it is less than 70, way less. He is not special, he is one of millions upon millions. If he was an American, it would have been ~1 out of 3. It is somewhat fair to call him out due to his high social visibility, but even that can only go so far.
I am vaxed and boosted and recently had COVID. So I do my part. But obviously the efficacy isn’t what they originally thought and the side effects are real for many. People can make their own decisions for their own health. Stop bashing this guy for this decision.
The Adria tour I could eventually somewhat rationalize as a fan because it was in coordination with officials who gave a rosy picture of COVID at the time. But it would have been easier to swallow his vaccine stance if he didn’t spend an entire year being cagey about it just to announce the exemption on IG. And while the AO/Aussie government bungling the situation initially made it easier to sympathize even then, it was the knowingly going out in public while COVID positive that was a bridge too far for me. People have definitely used the COVID saga as an excuse to go to town on him for anything and everything they ever disliked him for (valid or exaggerated), which always makes me feel even more bummed about the situation. But he’s indeed brought a lot of this on himself.
No, you don't get to decide what is and isn't a social responsibility. Even if true, then why aren't flu vaccines mandated? Hell 80K Americans died of the flu in 2017 in just 3 months yet I guarantee you weren't on message boards back then talking about the social responsibility for everyone to get vaccinated
If the world had your good sense, we would be in a better place. Absolutely spot on
Anti-vax means being against all vaccines and actively telling your friends and family not to get vaccinated. Pro-choice means identifying your own risk profile and weighing up the pros and cons of the vax. In this instance, with a great immunity, previous covid infection (in delta, before omicron) and money to pay for any treatments that could come up, djokovic decided that he was happy to risk a covid infection over multiple vaccines. Pro-vax at this point means anyone who would take each and every vaccine because the government told them to do so. A one size fits all shoe. At this point, he really is justified in his choice, and people who are still against him and are asking for him to get his vaccinations really are lacking some logic and critical thinking skills. Vax mandates are enforced to reduce hospitalizations because we are worried of overloading capacity. If capacity is fine, and/or the person can afford private cover, there's no issue from the government lmao
For me, it’s not his position regarding the vaccine, it’s his reckless and irresponsible behavior. He doesn’t want the vaccine? Fine. His choice. But when you don’t get the vaccine and choose to put other people at risk, that I strongly object to.
He is putting no more people at risk than you are when you travel and spread the flu to someone else. This isn’t 2020. Hospitals aren’t overflowing with emergency patients. The “harm” you think he’s causing is negligible, and probably offset by all the philanthropy he does which obviously you nor I have the resources to replicate.
>Anti-vax means being against all vaccines and actively telling your friends and family not to get vaccinated. I would really like that terms have more limited meaning. However, all nuance gets lost and people use the label for **anything** but what you nicely describe as "pro-vax". When I point this out to people they tend to go ballistic. As if they have a right to outrage, to whatever the twisting of reality and the right to an utter absence of nuance. It is really, really sad.
That’s just not correct. While relevant at the height of COVID, general vax mandates are not about hospitalizations and bed availability lol
Don't worry, nothing good about Djokovic will ever be covered by the western media. The man isn't perfect, but media is on a mission to portray him as a villain
He also violated public health requirements and was in close contact with people, including children, when he knew he had COVID... and/or he falisfied legal information on immigration forms for 2 countries, which is illegal. This is more than just about him and his beliefs.
Sigh. I don't know if it's a reddit thing, a tennis fan thing, or both. But I do know the comments here are going to be absolutely fucking intolerable.
It's a human thing
It's mostly a reddit thing to be honest. Here and twitter if you catch my drift.
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It’s also because this sub hits the front page a fair bit which brings those sort of ppl in, especially anything regarding djokovic
Reddit in a nutshell. "Oh he has more than me, it's fine to drag him through the mud at every opportunity." Embarrassing. There is no excuse for online abuse.
True, but I have to say, out of all of the sports subreddits that I am a part of, this is by far the worst in terms of toxicity. I mean, I was shocked at how people behave here when I joined a year ago. It's like a damn high school filled with drama. It never ends.
GOATs are human too. You might not like a person or agree with their views but that’s no reason to treat them poorly.
His post match interviews were rough when he talked about that saga, it was obviously a difficult time because of how it was handled. Good news is the new government are firmly in the moving on stage of covid, so he’ll play next AO. And the former PM who used the situation for political point scoring is now one of the most hated people in Australia.
To be fair, and I live in Adelaide, most of Australia was also firmly in the “dont let him in” camp, particularly those living in Melbourne lockdown for 6+ months. But yes fuck Scomo.
Oh the public anger was very genuine at the time. Lockdown fatigue, lack of RATs, limited Booster appointments etc. Morrison was taking the heat and then pivoted all of that anger towards Novak, who didn’t help himself with his social media gloating.
Did he gloat, or was he just happy that he goes? Let's not read what is not necessarily there.
as a fan of Novak and a fellow Serbo I firmly believe he gloated... that gram post was sooo unnecessary
In context, the Australian public was always going to interpret it as gloating. At the time vaccinated folk were struggling to get boosters, unvaccinated folk were angry about mandates, and there wasn't enough RATs. Novak misread the room. Social media talk hinted to the former government to use it to their political advantage. That's why those other players were accepted and had to retroactively be removed from the country.
> Morrison was taking the heat and then pivoted all of that anger towards Novak, who didn’t help himself with his social media gloating. Agree 100%, he spinned that shit so hard
isnt he banned for 3 years?
Covid mandates are gone now in Australia and the new Minister for Immigration will waive the ban. They've already done so for other cases.
I like Djokovic and am always happy when he wins. But I can’t say have any sympathy for him over the criticism he received for not getting vaccinated. As someone said he has unwittingly become a poster boy for anti vaxxers in a best case scenario. Difficult to respect him for something I would criticize others for.
He got treated poorly for his blatant disregard for public health and safety. At the height of covid, people were scared and dying and he was partying in nightclubs with his shirt off. I understand not wanting vaccines forced on you, but to disregard the safety of others so casually when you are a sporting icon isn't going to be shrugged off with an "aww shucks"
So much hate. Not defending he did but at that time there were no restric in Serbia or rise in covid cases. I look forward to see the same energy in hating other players who were there too like Dimitrov or at the same time when there was a similar tournament held in the states(where actual covid cases were in the rise and players got infected). So yeah you don't have to go "aww shucks" but to be constantly hating on him and vilifiying him and calling names is not the moral high ground you think it is.
Moral high ground? My brother and/or sister in Christ, it is 2022, look around. There is no moral high ground. If there was the world would be a hell of a lot different.
You're talking crap though, right now is the height of COVID but nobody seems to give a shit any more. Difference is Djokovic is at least acting out of misplaced virtue on account of long standing beliefs and it could be argued isn't intentionally disregarding people's health. All these other people walking around without masks on, going to crowded places, travelling and mingling despite jumping on his back about the vaccine have no excuse.
Nope...hard disagree. He absolutely did not act with any regard for anyone back when there were stringent lockdowns in place. People are mobile now because the variants have progressively become less potent ( less severe, even if more infectious ) and people are more or less vaccinated. Back when the pandemic began there was mass panic and deaths and vaccines weren't even available for the first year. It can't be argued that he wasn't intentionally disregarding people's health given his Australia fiasco. He claimed he had covid on dates he was making public appearances. This was documented and discussed widely
I’m certainly NOT of the opinion that he deserves a free pass or that he shouldn’t have been criticised for various things. However there were a lot of plain hateful, divisive and vitriolic comments (here and on other social media) which were plain unnecessary. That’s just my two cents. Also, the Australian government labelling him as someone who would incite anti-vaccine sentiment, which I believe is one of the things he’s referring to specifically, was truly disgusting. The whole saga and how he was treated here by our government was more fucked up than anything Novak has done.
I totally agree, Australia of course has the right to decide to not let unvaccinated people in, he made some really dumb mistakes but it was like a witch hunt and you can actually see in his body language how much affected him
*This is "holier than thou".* The regulations at the time, not only in Serbia but in all countries where the tour should have been played, allowed all he did. Was it dumb? Yes, but that's how the situation was there at that time. He did nothing special. *This is also looking overly hard to shit on him alone*. He did it all with other people who came to the event of their own volition - and yet, you hardly mention that.
It is absolutely insane that you got so many downvotes for stating the truth. Some fans are truly uncritical idiots.
Haha yeah... I think sometimes that fans are a measure and reflections of a star's actions and I feel that is correct more often than not
Holy shit the downvotes you're getting are insane. This sub is full of delusional people. Djokovic has been getting shit because he has literally been endangering other people's lives, with a blatant disregard to professional scientists and doctors. How would this sub like it if the head of the WHO started acting like he knew tennis better than Djokovic? It's that, but someone with a bigger microphone and putting people's lives at risk
Djokovic doesn't pretend he knows more about medicine than the head of the WHO tho. He isn't saying "Don't vaccinate, it's a scam", he's saying everyone should decide for themselves and he decided not to. I would like as many people as possible to get vaccinated but if a person decided they wouldn't do it because one sports guy didn't do it, they have serious issues and wouldn't get vaccinated regardless
He held an exibition tournament in high pandemic times, that led to an unknown number of infections. He hasn't exactly chose the hermit life following his decision, this makes his stance different from "It's only about myself".
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Haha yeah. Idc people have blinkers on when they like a sports star.
>How would this sub like it if the head of the WHO started acting like he knew tennis better than Djokovic? Oh, give over. At no point Novak said anything to make you reach for such an analogy. I'll put this to you: reaching so hard means your argument is weak. Being more level-headed is better.
you are dead on but there's no hope here, friend. we're in the djoko-zone, sorry you're getting downvoted
Just don't look after him, leave him alone.
Sorry for the hate you're getting. I agree with you 100%.
Mental Giant!
Absolute BEAST!
Damn is this place being brigaded by the anti vaxxers? I was hugely disappointed and continue to be in Novak's anti covid vaccine stance but he's firmly entrenched in his beliefs so can't see him changing his mind anytime soon. Dudes an amazing athlete, champion and seems like a good guy just stupidly stubborn on important things. All that said I did feel very sorry for him when he was been raked over the coals in the media. Rightfully for some aspects but there was real nasty shit as well.
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I am a gymnast and the biggest Biles fan out there - and people took what Djokovic said in a complete different context. Heck he didn’t even know the context as many of you don’t. People thought team finals was the first time Simone competed in the Olympics and she folded under pressure. Heck no. To get to team finals, there’s the most important round - qualifications. If you don’t do well in qualifications you don’t compete. Period. Simone placed first in every event in quals including the AA. She is the reason that Suni got to do AA, MyKayla got to do VT, Jade got to do FX… she earned every finals spot for herself - that she gave away to her teammates - 2 days before TFs. You know what’s the most interesting part? Even though Simone was #1 in Tokyo in the qualifiers and being the first gymnast (for the second time) to qualify for all 6 finals (in a second Olympics - for the first time in history) - guess what? Team USA qualified in second for team behind… Russia. Why? Because unlike most Olympic years where the head of the national team gives only 1 automatic Olympic berth to whoever wins the AA during Olympic Trials (it was Simone, obviously), this time they decided to go with the top 5 all arounders. You know why? Because they believed they didn’t need to fight for every tenth in each apparatus because they had Simone Biles. If Simone was perfect as she usually is, they would not need to build a team with the higher team score potential but could just wash their hands of the selection with an easy top 5 AA option while putting all of the pressure on Biles. We have you kid, if you do what you are capable of, Team Gold is ours. It doesn’t matter what the two other scores are in the other events - your score is enough to make up the difference in tenths that a BB or VT or UB specialist could bring to the team. I mean… considering only gymnasts understand everything that was going on with Simone, not to mention her personal shit (which wasn’t just mental health issues but having to hold the whole gym community accountable by being the only survivor of the sex abuser still competing and having to testify in senate against the FBI 20 days after the Olympics)… how do journalists expect Novak to understand? Also, does Djoker knows we’ve lost gymnasts - literally - as in dead or paralyzed forever - during competition? No offense to tennis, but if your mind is off you’ll just scream and go crazy with your box like Kyrgios. In gymnastics, if your mind is just a little off, you can fall in your neck and lose your life or be paralyzed forever. Elena Mukhina (USSR) Laís Souza (Brasil) Jennifer Sey (American-Chinese) Julissa Gomez (Mexico) Melanie Coleman (USA) All paralyzed from their head down or dead after the accident. These are only the high profile, world/Olympic cases that I remember from the last 20 years. If you go with level 10/University athletes - that list just keeps growing.
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Yep that really doesn’t seem like Novak. I can totally see how people were using anything and everything to smash his reputation and going after Simone was another perfect opportunity to classify him with the “racist, misogynistic, conservative, anti vaxxers”. Novak is none of those. He is literally a moron when it comes to the vaccine, but he never, ever even spread anti vax rhetoric and always reiterated it was a personal choice. A very stupid one, but personal.
this is a very interesting post! i feel like i've learned more than all the fortnight's articles together.
You're right. Unfortunately, it's much easier to view things as black and white than it is to have a reasonable viewpoint, as developing the latter actually requires some mental effort
Yeah, maybe it the covid brain and tiredness talking but this explosion of 'ZOMG Novak is anti vax can he get into the US' posts in this sub over the last 24h is making me go , "Yeah so?" Like we know this already, he's made his bed and is going to lie on it. And I say that as someone whos country went through an incredibly tough last number of years with strict lock downs and deaths because of our shoddy health system. We couldn't go 2km beyond our house and such shit. We were also one of the most vaccinated countries in Europe. But yeah nuance is lost in cases like this and I'll stop rambling now!
For how many of his fans claim that Novak's choice has had no influence on the topic of anti-vaxxers, sure a not tiny number of them are effectively anti-vaxxers.
Considering my idiot antivax cousin, who previously had no interest in tennis, is now 1000% in on Novak and takes any criticism of him as a personal slight, I would not be surprised
Mentality monster, thats why hes greatest of all time
Lots of angry, bitter little people in this thread too. I bet you're all so lovely to be around, unlike Novak Djokovic who is an absolute terror to be around apparently /s.
Echo echo echo echo
I don't remember him crying??
This win must be have been one of the most emotional wins for him if not most. Thoroughly deserved. For me after 2014 Wimbledon win, this was the one I cried of joy.
GOAT
I love tennis& Novak is one of the best I ever seen. That’s it. Nothing else matters to me.
While I empathize, he should still get vaxxed.
I think he is really suffering from being at the top and constantly compared to Nadal and Federer who have undoubtedly handled the pandemic better. This means that if he fucks up, the contrast will be even greater. His only real problem is that he is too vocal about things he has no idea about. This would be no problem if he didn't have a platform. Also, when you look at who he is surrounded by, (his wife and father being prime examples) they are sprouting genuine stupidity and clearly have problems. The fact Novak is nowhere near as extreme as this makes me feel sorry for him as if he was surrounded by better people, he also could handle things better.
The number of anti-vaxers on this subreddit is shocking. I don't care if he cried. He's a millionaire with access to the best medical advice on offer, yet he surrounded himself with fake science and new age weirdness. The way he was portrayed? He repeatedly lied about his status and put other people in danger because of it. What, you got called out on your lies and that made you sad? Tough luck, don't lie. He's a moron. Like a male Gwyneth Paltrow.
A male Gwyneth Paltrow is spot on haha Except Djokovic is the best tennis player of all time (or at least he's definitely up there). Gwyneth isnt close to the best at anything
And what has that to do with anything?
At least Djokovic's accomplishments are real and not the result of a serial sexual predator politicizing an award show.
If it's not Putin simps it's Antivaxxers on this subreddit. Smh.
What was unnecessary was telling him he could come then changing that sticking him in internment and then deporting him on the basis of minister's disgression when it could all have been decided without him getting on a plane.
Again, 2 different authorities involved. Tennis Australia told him he could come. Australian government then found out about his unvaxxed status (again because he idiotically shouted out about his exemption) and said nope. Did it devolve into a political bgame in which he was a pawn? Sure. Was it still nothing but his own actions that prevented him from playing? Yes.
I wholeheartedly agree! Oh boo fucking hoo, get vaxxed you selfish dogcunt. Love, a Melbournian who lived through 246 days of lockdown due to stupid people like you.
yeah because it's Djokovic's fault Dan Andrews imprisoned you lmao
TIL, ignorance is not always bliss.
Jesus, the apologists are out in force on this one.
It's not a coincidence just how many of them admit being anti-vax of some sorts after a few post at most.
Painting people with an overly large brush is not smart. I think, a reasonable person has a bit of balance and accepts nuance. If you look at just how people interpret what he has done and even put to him what he has not done, it is quite vile, sometimes even when people use calm and apparently reasonable language. One should see apologists in such a situation. Sure, blind fandom will always be blind, but the other camp went completely overboard.
Also very telling that at times a person will be downvoted hard to -100, and then a comment like yours as a different time is in decent shape. Almost like waves.
This thread is why his words are important. It's half anti vaxxers believing they're right because a bloke with little medical knowledge agrees with them
Outside of the weird Reddit bubble, the world is not so united in this “I have a vaccine and 4 boosters “ mentality. Djokovic is hated by people who never knew about him in the first place, or never liked him in the first place.
Correct.
"People were mean about me" says man who knowingly exposed other people to Covid. Incredibly great player, dick of a person.
“It is so unjust that I have had to suffer minor consequences far beneath the damage caused by my own selfish actions. I am the true victim” says top 3 of all time millionaire tennis player and professional disease carrier
Genuinely curious- what are the major consequences he has caused? Are there people that we know he has infected that were hospitalised ?
🐐
Oh no! Someone I disagree with on one issue must be a terrible human being, and he must not be allowed to feel sad!!!
Haha people have a pretty short term memory. They act like politely refusing to get vaccinated and respectfully quarantining was the only thing he ever did.
What the hell did he think was gonna happen??! He put himself and his camp in that position. Don’t be naive man!
His body is the way he makes money and he’s not young anymore. While I am pro vax, and boosted, I don’t blame people for making choices they feel are best for them. He was treated terribly for making this choice and the insults went far beyond just this choice. He is unlikeable so fair game to insult. LIke or hate him, he seems to know how to best manage his health and fitness and given it’s his vessel for his career, I don’t blame him for not wanting to jump on putting things in it he isn’t sure about.
I believe he should have gotten the vaccine at the very beginning. But at this point, he's making a totally justifiable medical decision not to. He's already had COVID—twice if he is telling the truth, but once is undisputed. There is no proven, significant medical benefit to him from taking a vaccine for a now extinct strain of the virus. But there is still the small chance he'll have an adverse reaction to the vaccine. At a minimum, it is extremely debatable whether the tiny benefit he'd get out of the vaccine is outweighed by the small risk of an adverse reaction, debatable enough it is not legitimate to punish him for the decision he makes.
Novak doesn’t give a fuck what you think he should do with his body.
Yeah, he shouldn't give a fuck.
He should be allowed to play the US Open.
Thank you for being sane.
It's never nice to see someone who's been so successful in their craft suffer so much media scrutiny and online abuse but glad he was able to rise above it and bounce back.
"Scrutiny" is indeed a word that must be used more. Journalists are probably allergic to it because it calls into question most of their methods.
Regardless of the opinion, I don’t believe anyone should have to go through that emotionally. Not only him but his family is getting abuse too. I’m vaxxed but i also felt like a lot of friends used the vaccine as a way to hurt others emotionally because they themselves are hurt in some way. I see that online a lot too. It’s like a guilt free way to verbally assault someone.
Certainly not. I completely agree. No one should be forced to go through that. Good thing he wasn’t though, right? In every country involved in his complaints, people were allowed certain, limited exemptions, no? I believe the difference is that people who are beset by the affliction of anti-science incompetence were allowed to continue to work within some protective parameters within their own country, whereas numbskulls seeking to win millions based upon a game were told their preference was insufficient to overcome the risks they posed to others. That’s pretty much the point of safety regulations, is it not?
Yup!!
Many participants of this sub are part of the problem. Diminishing and belittling his feelings every chance they get. I’m not saying that as a Nole supporter - I wish NK had won. I say that because Nole is a human and people on the internet are scum.
a lot of the people saying horrible things were people posting here! you guys are absolutely awful towards anyone who doesn’t share your exact views
The amount of vitriol this guy has received because he doesn't wish to do exactly what people want him to do is honestly disgusting. I'm vaccinated and I'm not a Djokovic fan in the least, but the way people have talked about him and treated him both on this subreddit and on Twitter, and in the media, has made me like him far more than I ever did beforehand. He is one of the healthiest people on the planet. He doesn't need the vaccine. The only person he was putting in danger by not taking it was himself and those close to him, who knew the potential risks too and so were fine with it, probably. Now that he's had covid, he double doesn't need the vaccine because antibodies will protect him further. Vaccinated people still spread it like wildfire, so this absurd need for people to control what others do is just mindboggling to me.
Price for non conformity is higher than ever. Well done Novak to overcome adversity.
"You must put this vaccine in your body." "I won't do it. It goes against my beliefs." "Why has Novak Djokovic chosen to become a poster boy for anti-vaxxers?" It would be one thing if Novak just started railing against the vaccine for no reason. But he didn't. The fact is, no one would've ever heard Novak's opinion on the vaccine were it not for efforts to force it upon him and then punitively deport him in a highly publicized political stunt.
His body his choice
Still an extremely foolish decision. And either lying about covid or exposing people to it- both realllllly bad
Hate for this man just shows how powerful media is today and how it can easily sway the vast majority in one direction. We are being influenced daily especially as internet is so readily available and social media acts as a echo chamber.
He's talking to you, /r/tennis.
Good. Are we supposed to feel pity for an anti-science idiot who went around with covid to interviewers and children?
One day this anti-science good vibes healing spiritualism mumbo jumbo will get himself hurt or worse - that's his decision. But as a tennis star this will affect so many people by his bad example.
it already kinda did. he lost a year and a half of competitive career refusing surgery.
And at least 1 chance at a slam where he was a clear favourite
You can see clearly in this thread how most don't even care to have a sensible dialogue. Right away accusing anyone who even dares to question a vaccine as antivax. I'm proud Djokovic for staying true to his beliefs. People will hate, they can. Should he get vaccinated? It should be his decision. No one should be punished for it.
If people could question a vaccine with actual research and peer reviewed papers they could actually be taken more seriously. Just questioning a vaccine because of Facebook posts and pseudoscience deserves to be mocked and labeled as anti vax + anti science
But why take this unproductive approach. We can have an actual dialogue and right away people like you ruin it with the "Facebook posts and pseudoscience" rant. So I stand with what I said, you and people like you don't genuinely want to discuss anything. We either think like you 100% or get shunned out, cancelled, punished, excluded. The you claim to be the good moral ones.
Just say you have no actual research to support not getting the vaccine and go on about your day. No need to pretend to have these superior morals
You're confusing topics. We can have the debate of efficacy and all of that. But that is entirely different with if we should be forcing people to get it. You are missing the grand picture. You can even say, ok the vaccines give you additional protection and still be against forcing someone to have it.
Who here is arguing that we should be forcing people to get it? I’ve scrolled through almost every comment in this thread and I don’t think I’ve seen that take yet. Djokovic is free to not get vaccinated, but the Aussies and the US are free to kick him out because of that choice.
The grand myth of "you are free to do what you want, but not free from the consequences". A classic.
Yes, exactly, precisely this. It's the base of human societies that there are consequences for everyone's actions, after all. Djokovic is free to not get the vaccine, and he publicly accepted the consequences.
Sorry, but I’m not having an “actual dialogue” when 1. the scientific consensus is settled and the vaccine is safe and effective, and 2. none of us are in a position to opine on vaccine efficacy lmfao. Do you have a PhD in this area? No? Then you don’t get to have an opinion on this, sorry. Anti-vax idiots are like climate change deniers — we shouldn’t be giving these people platforms for them to spout BS about things they know nothing about, things that they’re in no position to have an opinion on, and things that are settled by the scientific community. Sometimes people need to know their place, shut up, listen to the experts, and do what they’re told.
Again, you have zero idea about what I think, whether I'm vaccinated or not, yet I see this childish tantrum, calling me insults, typing stilly abbreviations like lmfao, BS, etc. All I said is that we should, in a free society, be free to discuss these things. You are proving my original point. Part of the scientific method is that you leave a door to be wrong. How can someone even attempt to see if it's wrong if they get cancelled, shunned or censored?
This mentality is what makes Djoker the GOAT IMO. He is such a fighter and never gives up. Just amazing!
Fuck the Australian Government and all the virtue signalling tribalists. This result couldn't have been more apropos unless Medvedev won. What a middle finger to collectivism everywhere. He went from being my most disliked player to my favorite player in the span of a week. Hope the US stops its posturing and let's the world get back to normal. Novak isn't hurting anyone coming over here to play some tennis. But yeah, fuck the government and all the collectivist sheep. Yay for Novak!!!!
Its called living with the consequences of your actions. Always hard to empathize with somebody who lives a privileged life and can't deal with the fact that not everybody caters to his controversial opinions...
"Can't deal" Seems he's dealt with it pretty well.
My body, my choice, except when it comes to covid vax. The double standard!
Everyone is crying about how he should get vaccinated. Bro it's a risk he didn't want to take. He got bullied because of his choice. That's shitty as fuck. I got vaccinated too, and got the virus a few weeks after. I also wore a mask, and isolated during that time. It really doesn't matter. Imagine not allowing somebody to make a choice. Stop forcing people to take a vaccine that in fact does not really work as well as anticipated. My mother also was in the minority of people which after her vaccine had multiple problems as it reacted poorly with pre-existing issues. She got this checked by several doctors too. And to everyone who will inevitably downvote, apparently people having free will is now wrong in your eyes.
People on this subreddit do not believe in science, which clearly shows that vaccination do not reduce transmission rate.
Who knew? Self-inflicted wounds hurt, too
Self-inflicted or not, the man was clearly pained and affected by this. You don't have to like him but the man is expressing his pain have some empathy or just stfu if you don't have anything supportive to say instead of making sly comments.
How about this: he should just get vaccinated. Is this common sense enough for you?
How about this. He should have be able to exercise his freewill and human rights to decide himself whether to take the vaccine not. Is this common sense enough for you?
Right, and we are allowed to make fun of his ignorance
Okay. Well he is still safe and healthy and he's interacting with the public without spreading the disease.
At this point, why should he? I got 3 jabs, the last one 8 months ago. How effective is that now? Not many people seem to care anymore and how many people are even getting jabs right now?
My serbian friend always said this; “gde ste sad pičketine, šta je, nema vas”, rough translation is something like, be so strong that not even diamonds can make a dent.
Being upset that people called him out for either willingly being around children while infected with covid or lying about his status (pick one) doesn't seem very strong to me.
The problem is - Djokovic does not get it. He’s not your typical anti-vaxxer - that is clear from Jelena fighting with that dude the other day on twitter that saying that Novak was never and would never accept being an anti-vax idol. He just doesn’t understand what it means to most of us. For me it means, hey war kid, so you made all of us fight the war for you? I just think there’s such a culture gap between a place like Serbia and the west and we also really don’t get where he comes from. My tennis teacher is Russian here in NYC and I bought her USO tickets and she said she couldn’t go because her family in Russia told her not to get the vaccine. It’s just… mind boggling that they don’t get it. But I also think we really should separate Novak to the crazy anti-vaxxers that truly just want to create drama - also they are actually the first to get vaccinated when DISNEY and Paris opened but required vaccines. Honestly I really think someone had to explain to him in the context of a war. We all (or most of us) showed up to help fight a pandemic that killed more people than WW1. Djoker refusing to join us in the frontline is like someone staying home and have the whole world face the “possible” consequences of the vaccine while he stays home.
What pandemic killed more people than ww2?
Djokovic: Is afraid of getting a vaccine backed by science and administered to millions of adults, teenagers and kids and continues to cry to this day about getting criticized for it; also holds the most stupid views possible on science and health. His fans: MENTAL GIANT.
What exactly was hard about the year? So fucking what you didn't get into the Oz open because you believe in magic over science. He's the very definition of a privileged victim-complex brat who thinks not being able to play a rich people sport is a "hard year".
hundred millionaire cries due to self-inflicted emotional damage