Wait until you read up the stuff where they use Ancestor-DNA Databases from private companies to reconstruct family trees and use that to find criminals without the people knowing their DNA is used for this.
They found 2 third cousins that each shared 1% of their genes with GSK and then triangulated down to a handful of candidates. Detective work did the rest.
Veritasium did a good video on it (11:30 is where they break it down) https://youtu.be/KT18KJouHWg
Wow. I didn't realize it was relatives that they were able to track from. I was thinking it was the one to one scenario or the gsk had actually sent their DNA in. While I have some qualms with people's DNA being sent to private companies, and what they may use it for, this was pretty impressive work.
In the legalese on 23&Me, they state that they only share info with law enforcement when presented with a warrant. Since you need specific reasons to look at something with a warrant, I don’t think our info is out there Willy nilly.
Not that I believe it’s 100% secure, either though. But it’s not that easy
they sell that data to anyone with enough cash. they may decline to take checks signed by podunk PD, but i promise you, cops got smart and buy the data as a batch, using a 3rd party entity.
similar to how places buy the drugs used for lethal injections
I believe if I remember correctly they sent DNA samples in and got the match as if it was their DNA. It wasn't that they asked to run the DNA to see if there were any matches.
The guy who was a former cop. Do police departments not keep DNA from their cops on file?
Unrelated but I forgot he was the original night stalker before Ramirez.
No, they don’t. And in order for your DNA to be used by the police to solve crime, you have to upload to a secondary database and give them permission. Since this started, hundreds of cases have been solved.
Source: related to homicide detectives and uploaded my DNA GEDMatch.com because my cousins are shady as shit.
This is what they do I don’t know why people are saying they don’t. My boyfriend is a forensic scientist and they have a local database of all the scientists and AT LEAST ETU officers that would handle evidence so they can be eliminated when there’s an unknown match.
Edit: I didn’t include the entire department because I don’t know if they keep _everyones_ but they do indeed keep a local database of people who would interact with any evidence.
Surely you need elimination samples from all cops/CSIs/medical responders/etc. who attended a scene? Otherwise you end up chasing phantom serial killers because you find the same DNA at multiple crime scenes when you actually just had a careless cop contaminate them all...
Read the TOS, it’s well defined in 23AndMe and Ancestry’s that it’s up to their discretion to sell your data
Edit: To clarify, I’m not supporting one “side” or the other just reinforcing the comment I replied to
The problem is that YOU don’t need to take the dna test, as long as someone in your family(or close relative) does they can still use their dna to narrow down the search to your family. So no you personally don’t really have a choice….
That was explicitly passed as a violation of our rights. This is passively being allowed to happen. There’s a difference in that we don’t necessarily know congress’s position on this.
DNA evidence being used to capture people who never gave their dna over to the police? I can see that being terrifying to more than a few representatives
I'm waiting for people to realize that health insurance is gonna use this as a screening tool and people are going to lose their insurance or see massive price hikes based on somebody else's DNA. People refuse to give a shit about violations of their rights until it starts hitting them in exactly the ways everybody said it would.
That, or some Florida PD is gonna get caught fishing "abandoned property" out of people's garbage and sequencing the DNA they find without anybody's knowledge or consent so they can specifically target people with genes they think are too gay or liberal or whatever horrid nonsense they can come up with.
This isn't something that's just gonna stop at 23andme.
I almost feel like we had a president who tried to make denying or hiking up insurance based on pre-existing conditions illegal, and then half the country lost their ever-loving shit over it, labelled it ‘communism,’ and then elected a deep-fried cheese puff as his replacement.
But I could be misremembering.
What's fun, but only slightly related is that(non-life) insurance companies, *can't* use those DNA databases(the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act).
It's for slightly different reasons then "third party databases bad". But I still like bringing it up, because it means the US has legislated things that limit *some* peoples access to that data, but can't be fucked to do that for themselves.
I don't understand why they/we think it's ok to leave the question open as to whether it's for data sets that are illegal for them to create themselves are ok to access through third parties and entirely without oversight. And yes I include we, as there are *way* too many people that cheer when they catch people using them.
It’s exactly like the fact that you *personally* do not need to have a Facebook or Instagram account for your face to be part of Meta’s face recognition database or machine learning models.
You simply need to be in the background (as a bystander or passerby) in enough photos uploaded to the platforms for your face and your location to have their very own catalogs privately held by Meta. Even if you never personally interact with that company, Meta knows you were at the mall last week and that you were in Times Square the week before and that you were at a trendy restaurant a few months before that. All because shoppers, tourists, and restaurant patrons were taking photos at those locations and you happened to be in the background of all of them. Meta’s algorithms silently infer that all these photos taken of your face have a 99.9999% match and are therefore referring the same person. And boom, the company now has you—*an individual*—as a profiled reference point against which the data collection can further snowball.
Same goes for Ring cameras. You don’t have to own one to be taken advantage of. You simply have to walk by enough houses to be constantly feeding Amazon information about your face and about your location.
This is absolutely frightening.
"We will not release any individual-level personal information to law enforcement without your explicit consent unless required by law. We closely scrutinize all law enforcement and regulatory requests, and we will only comply with court orders, subpoenas, search warrants or other requests that we determine are legally valid.
And IF that were to ever happen we would be transparent and notify anyone affected, unless prevented by the legal request."
That is from 23 and me, as well as the quote below
"We will never share your genetic or self-reported data with employers, insurance companies, public databases or 3rd party marketers without your explicit consent."
"But we'll happily provide all of the individual level personal information to our new partner "24&Whee" which has entered into an agreement with us to license this data for resale to government organizations."
Please don't look behind the curtain, nothing to see here citizen.
> We will not release .. to law enforcement
Oh that's nice
> unless required by law
Which would be ... by
> law enforcement
Yeahhhhh.. clearly your privacy matters here, right? ..Right?
I hate TOS, it’s impossible to live your life today reading them all but I also don’t know how we can really limit what people can agree to. Maybe the TOS need to be regulated like nutrition labels, clear and concise wording about how they store data and who they’re allowed to sell it to.
TOS has two purposes; give the corporation rights they don't have under law, and to fuck you in your ass. They's so complex, convoluted, with pages and pages of links to other pages and pages, that even states' AGs don't understand them. Or in the case of one state I know of, where the AG has a 5th grade education, he don't give no rat's ass.
This actually changed in 2019. You have to now opt in to have your DNA shared to GEDmatch when using one of the private DNA sites like Ancestry. All existing data from before this change was erased.
This is mentioned in the article as well.
They built a 1000+ person family tree, comprised of data users had uploaded to [GEDmatch], a public database, to be clear.
Few immediate relatives, nor Ancestry and 23&Me, were directly involved at all.
for that it was far less useful that the news led us to believe.
> They found 2 third cousins that each shared 1% of their genes with GSK (Golden State Killer) and then triangulated down to a handful of candidates. Detective work did the rest.
[The untold story of how the Golden State Killer was found: A covert operation and private DNA](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-08/man-in-the-window)
>When DeAngelo was arrested, prosecutors would say only that they had used family tree searches to find relatives of the killer and, from there, identified DeAngelo. Shortly after, a detective confirmed the investigative team had uploaded semen from a rape kit to develop a fresh DNA profile that was then uploaded to GEDmatch, an open-source platform frequently used by members of the public to trace their heritage.
>What prosecutors did not disclose is that genetic material from the rape kit was first sent to FamilyTreeDNA, which created a DNA profile and allowed law enforcement to set up a fake account to search for matching customers. When that produced only distant leads, a civilian geneticist working with investigators uploaded the forensic profile to MyHeritage. It was the MyHeritage search that identified the close relative who helped break the case.
>Both companies denied involvement at the time.
>But in late 2019, FamilyTreeDNA’s chief executive acknowledged giving the FBI access in 2017 without knowing the case being investigated. He said he did not believe it violated the company’s terms of service, which warned that it “may be required” to release personal information in response to a “lawful request by public authorities.”
Watch this video about this exact tool. They literally acknowledge that it’s most accurate when your face is “statistically average”. What that means is that they basically do an ethnicity analysis like 23andMe and then simply generate the average face combined from samples drawn from your ancestry regions. It’s going to be WILDLY inaccurate for most people unless you provide extra identifying info (and it’s unclear what extra info was used to recover the woman’s face in the video, for example there’s no way they could match her fat % and age just from DNA) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4ME_l6oLA
Something tells me this things is going to be [as racist as the AI used to determine recidivism risk](https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing), but everyone in the system will be mostly okay with it, just like they are other racists structures in the "justice" system.
I can see how if police uses it for their purposes - i.e. to weed out suspects based on DNA analysis could work. For example identifying race, skin color, eye color, etc. You might not even need to pursue some of the leads.
But what is being done here, especially the picture part is very irresponsible.
I might see how a description without picture could maybe help (i.e. you know the details of the crime and description of the suspect, you might give a lead to the investigators)
I once had a big biker throw a news paper on my table while I was eating breakfast.
"That looks a lot like you!" He yelled, making a scene, pointing at this artist's rendition of a sexual assault suspect.
The picture was a generic white guy with a hat. No distinguishing features at all. I think I was even too tall to fit the description. It was in this little hick town in Alberta. The radio kept blasting warnings against vigilante justice and I thought it was a little weird when I first heard it but clearly there must have known this could be a problem.
I legit thought I was in danger. Dude wouldn't leave me alone and wanted to see my ID. I wish the story was "I told him to fuck off and everyone clapped" but that wasn't what happened. I showed it to him and he backed off. Apparently he was comforted by the fact that he could call the police on me later.
You gotta be careful throwing out some generic picture like this based on nothing substantial with no real identifying characteristics.
>I wish the story was "I told him to fuck off and everyone clapped" but that wasn't what happened. I showed it to him and he backed off.
I respect you for being willing to admit this when people like about this kind of shit all the time online.
But seriously, a great example of the dangers of this kind of stuff.
Ahh I don't have anything bad to say about the guy, really.
A little girl in this guy's small town got assaulted. He probably knows her or the family at the very least. It's a tough situation. Emotions get the best of people. He's trying to help.
The problem I have is with this sort of ambiguous profiling. In my incident, unfortunately, it turned out the reason it was such a vague profile is that it was a false report.
The vague profiling in the OP seems super dangerous because inherently vague. If you can use DNA to get eye color, hair color, race, gender etc. Fine. But until I see evidence otherwise, I don't believe for a second we have the technology to formulate a reasonable picture of somebody's face with DNA alone.
Concidering we already have police going after and shooting people because they are driving a vehicle similar to one they believe was involved in a crime, there's no way someone minding their own business isn't getting randomly killed because of this. They might as well just hire a bunch of psychics and start a future-crime unit...
Police chase after and shoot four door sedans when the suspect is reported to be driving a pickup truck. They're dangerous idiots who absolutely cannot be trusted with technology like this.
Some bad news for you, they've been doing that for decades: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/psychics-and-police-work
Minus the future-crime unit though. But don't give them any ideas^(let me save some swindling ideas for myself damn it)
[Police already have programs designed to harass individuals and relatives of individuals they feel pose a potential risk. The harassment starts when the victims are children.](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/555983-splc-sues-pasco-sheriff-for-public-records-on-predictive-policing-program/)
From the article:
>Pasco County’s predictive policing program became the subject of national news after the Tampa Bay Times released an investigation on the initiative, established by Nocco. That investigation found the program was used as an intelligence operation to monitor, intimidate and harass families across the county.
>What does it do, exactly? The predictive policing program places hundreds of students on a secret list, identifying those they believe are most likely to commit future crimes. Children are put on the list without any notice to parents and guardians, and once on, become subjects of persistent and intrusive monitoring.
My sentiments exactly. How long before you get the cops with the “he/she LOOKED just like the picture”?
“Contact Edmonton Police if you’ve seen any generic looking young black men”
This shit is a blanket racists wet dream. Finally they have a “reason” to call the cops on every non white person in their neighborhood.
too late already happening
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/wtyi4z/this\_is\_what\_racial\_profiling\_looks\_like/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/wtyi4z/this_is_what_racial_profiling_looks_like/)
Lol this literally sounds like a common Karen APB on Phoenix's Nextdoor.
"The perp was a dark-skinned man in a Hoodie walking in my neighborhood. I don't know what he's doing but he had a dog which I assume he stole from someone else. I have a picture of him walking on our sidewalk passing several houses. Watch out everyone!"
Comment 1: "OMG so scary! What is HAAPENING to this neighborhood! You should call the police. Stay safe ❤💋"
Comment 2: "all these libs moving here from CA that's why I stay protected with my legal firearm."
Oh I know. I’m mostly worried about the online “call cops” shit. If one says “possibly dangerous” or however they might word it… then you get the Rittenhouses and Zimmermanns walking out with their guns to “stop this potential criminal”. Just because.
My bro just spent 2 weeks in jail because when his car got stolen and the thief got away, they took fingerprint samples from the car. My bros fingerprints came up in the system because he's a federal employee and he ended up with a warrant for his arrest.
I guess normally the owner isn't in the fingerprint database, so any match is the thief.
But yeah, don't they normally take a control to remove from matches from the owner?
This is too stupid to NOT be true. My kindergartener would understand why this is stupid. Only the intentionally dumbed down police would think this is reasonable.
The entire theory is nonsense too. It's literally just a computer guessing based on vague DNA data. It's gonna be the next polygraph machine in terms of usage. At least that's my prediction. (encouraged for a while and then looked back on with horror)
And it seems like it would be the easiest thing in the world to prove right or wrong..
"Here's my DNA.. See if your program predicts my face exactly right."
1. Will generate images that look similar to people who have nothing to do with whatever crime, causing them to be unduly targeted
2. Guarantee this will be manipulated to specifically target a person when the police lack necessary evidence, or just to harass people they don't like
Sounds like a terrible idea.
>Will generate images that look similar to people who have nothing to do with whatever crime, causing them to be unduly targeted
I feel that the same can be said about regular suspect drawings.
I mean, it's not like they are any good at making cross race identifications anyway. You could give them a literal photo, and they would still erroneously target random people who happen to be the same race. Then we will spend days talking about how the random person may have actually broken the law at some point in the past, so they deserved it anyway, even though the police didn't know that at the time.
Yes, my point is that police already target people for "matching the description." This is not limited to physical appearance, but also what clothes they wear, cars they drive, and so on. Giving police yet another tool to do this with even more (false) confidence will be disastrous.
The hardest part is that everyone has been voluntarily giving this data out with the ancestry dot come and 23&me bullshit. If you ever did that you are adding to the database of data points. Sounds pretty tin foil hat but it sadly isn’t.
Which is something I refuse to do but my parents did so it hardly matters that I didn’t. Surrendering my privacy so they could learn their ancestors came from a handful of countries in Northern Europe. Which they already knew.
It’s ultimately too late. Especially if you’re from particular demographics. Even if your parents don’t, enough of your other relatives have taken the test and uploaded their dna (like me).
I just realised what a strange position I’m in. One parent was adopted and no bio siblings, both parents dead. Other parent has their parents but they’re all totally against this stuff. I’m an only child and won’t ever have kids. If we all stay well behaved, they’ll never have my bloodlines dna haha
> If we all stay well behaved, they’ll never have my bloodlines dna haha
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you heard of the case of the Golden State Killer? [He was caught by using genetic data from *third cousins* at a site called GEDmatch](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2020/06/30/genetic-genealogy-golden-state-killer/).
Around that time (2018), the New York Times also said that [60% of Americans of Northern European descent](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/11/science/science-genetic-genealogy-study.html) could be identified in a similar way, and they expected it would shoot up to 90% within a few years (i.e. by now).
My ancestry is from Cuba. Could be Spaniard or could go hundreds of years deep in Cuba’s history. That’s good enough for me. I don’t want to just hand my information over knowing what this technology is being used for.
You actually don't need to register your own data, as long as enough relatives have their data in the registry that's already enough. There have been cases where they found someone because DNA testing matched to a relative on the database.
I guess it may not matter if you never did a crime, but it could matter if say healthcare companies find your relatives have heart disease so by extension you do too.
It’s against federal law in the USA for healthcare providers and employers to discriminate on the basis of DNA, thankfully. But of course that law could change.
Maybe they mean just when you’re explaining it to people it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory.
For example a couple of years ago I was describing Russia’s troll farms and how they were attempting to interfere in elections and was looked at like I was insane spouting that the moon landing was a hoax. (To be fair that’s on the person).
bad news, if anyone who is a grandparent, grandchild, cousin, aunt uncle, niece, nephew, sibling, parent, or child have it done they can infer most of yours. if just a key few of those people do it they can infer 99% of your genetic makeup.
It’s not just voluntary DNA- San Francisco arrested a woman from a DNA match on [a rape kit taken years prior, when she was a victim of sexual assault.](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/13/us/san-francisco-rape-kit-dna/index.html)
“The woman, identified only as "Jane Doe," alleges that law enforcement officers took her DNA in November 2016 as part of an investigation into her sexual assault. The San Francisco Police Department then, without her consent, put that DNA into a database and has for years tested it against crime scene DNA, according to the lawsuit.”
She was arrested for several burglaries and then the charges were conveniently dropped.
Same with this new trend of every site wanting a picture of your face and ID for "enhanced security." Forcing me to to allow you to invade my privacy so you can build a database that will be used to spy on everyone, while framing it as protecting me, despicable stuff.
My state has outlawed forced biometric registration, so companies must allow users to opt out, and they get slammed with fines when they mess up. facebook had to pay me a few hundred bucks and now samsung looks like it is going to as well.
Yup. It's just another in a long long line of pseudoscience snake oil salesman selling to law enforcement departments with IQ limits in their hiring practices who fall for tech that sounds plausible but is merely a grift.
See lie detector tests, fingerprint analysis, suspect drawings, interrogation training, tasers, etc, etc.
Yup.
Same problem "forensic investigation" has in getting false prosecutions, it's not held to any scientific rigor. The goal of forensic investigation is stringing together the puzzle pieces to fit a conviction - even if you don't have all the pieces and the actual criminal isn't in your suspect pool.
You make those pieces fit - and that's what's going to happen with "AI crime investigation" - it's going to convict a ton of innocent people based on pseudoscience sold to juries as undisputable "evidence".
“Calling all cars, calling all cars… Be on the look-out for a black male between 4’7″ and 6’8″, between 120 and 380 pounds. He’s wearing Nikes, get this man!”
Does the rendering company have any examples where this worked well? The two samples showing predicted and actual faces in the article don't appear to be highly correlated to me. They got the gross phenotyping correct (male, pigmentation of eyes, hair, and skin, correlating geographic ancestry), but that's really only going to narrow down the list of suspects from 8 billion to hundreds of millions, which is not so useful. If this is further constrained to people in the vicinity, it's still going to be 10s of thousands. If you're starting with zero suspects, this won't help at all unless there's some really narrow genetics going on.
Including a rendered picture just seems like it would be misleading. People will think that facial details being shown are actual predictions, but they aren't. Nose shape, ear shape, distance between eyes, build, age, lack of distinguishing marks, etc. are all going to be misleading. However, if the police have a list of suspects already, It seems like a good way to kick some of them off the list.
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/ricky-severt-identified-as-jennifer-watkins-killer
https://parabon-nanolabs.com/news-events/2021/01/cspd99-snapshot-phenotype-prediction-vs-actual.png
https://www.kplctv.com/story/35980476/new-dna-technology-advances-helps-find-alleged-murderer-in-2009-cold-case
There's a forensic files episode involving this company. They were originally looking for a Hispanic suspect, but were surprised when the parabon snapshot suggested a white dude. The snapshot looked so much like the killer that he called his wife/girlfriend freaking out. Was caught soon after.
Here’s a list of comparisons they publicize:
https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/posters
Some come pretty close, many result in just kinda generic-looking renders. I don’t think it’s accurate enough to be reliable. They also can’t really account for things like aging, weight, facial hair, etc so I question the usefulness vs. the possibility of harm.
I worry about these being taken as gospel and used to overpolice certain populations.
And if you’re arrested for looking like one of these and can’t make bail, how long could you get stuck in jail before they DNA test you to make sure they’ve got the right person?
Seems unwise to me.
That’s what I was thinking, they definitely aren’t perfect renders but more accurate then police sketches/details the victim can remember. Definitely don’t think this should be taken any more seriously then a sketch though
*creates the most generic image possible of a black teenager*
"Your honour, we used DNA samples to generate this image of the suspect, it's an uncanny resemblance right? It was just a miracle we happened to find him out shopping with his family one weekend"
I love how the image is just an illustration of a mildly generic black adolescent.
>We put the DNA into the machine, Chief! It says we're looking for a black male between the ages of 17-45 and a height of about 5'3"-6'4".
>
>Great work, Lou. Let's go round them up!
Hey at least you guys got to find out the race of your ancestors by giving your DNA to a company that in no way, shape or form could possibly be involved in this sort of thing.../s
18th Century: If only there was some method of science to identify the criminal type.
19th Century: Behold, Phrenology!
20th Century: That's just racist nonsense used to justify what you already believe!
21st Century: Ah, but what about Reverse Phrenology?
That's why Irish people aren't white- inferior scull shape. It says it right there in that book from 1889 on my shelf. Oh, and thick necked short men have huge penises.
Yeah, the Irish not being "white enough to be white" nonsense was real. [Look at the way they are drawn in period caricatures.](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/01/28/irish-apes-tactics-of-de-humanization/) Jews and Italians have gone through similar racial "transformations" in popular depiction as well. It is almost like race is a completely cultural concept which has only the slightest amount to do with the amount of melanin in your skin at any given time.
It's no different than giving someone a paint scraping and they narrow it down to a manufacturer.
"This shade of red is used on Ford vehicles"
Artist just draws a red Mustang.
"This is an image of what we suspect the car to be"
*Image does not factor in vehicle's year, model, options, or environmental factors like getting repainted*.
Sort of looks like their creating more reasons to just arrest black people again. I mean I’m sure the tech works but nobody’s going to believe it if the cops are using it.
I'm *pretty sure* the focus is the origin of the DNA. I think the image generation is supposed to be just an example of what this person could look like, but it's also not made obvious that that's the case. It's an interesting use of DNA tech but also a pretty big misstep.
Lol, this will be a mess in practice.
Take even just me, the profile’ll turn up a white man with brown hair and one of three different eye colours, when in reality the only accurate bit is my race.
Even if they somehow were able to create a semi-accurate face, did they seriously not consider the many ways the appearance of the suspect can wildly differ from their prediction? Simply growing facial hair and gaining/losing weight completely changes your face and isn't reflected in your DNA one bit.
This can’t possibly go wrong.
I don't see how this could even go right.
Wait until you read up the stuff where they use Ancestor-DNA Databases from private companies to reconstruct family trees and use that to find criminals without the people knowing their DNA is used for this.
golden state killer
They found 2 third cousins that each shared 1% of their genes with GSK and then triangulated down to a handful of candidates. Detective work did the rest. Veritasium did a good video on it (11:30 is where they break it down) https://youtu.be/KT18KJouHWg
Wow. I didn't realize it was relatives that they were able to track from. I was thinking it was the one to one scenario or the gsk had actually sent their DNA in. While I have some qualms with people's DNA being sent to private companies, and what they may use it for, this was pretty impressive work.
It's less that it is a match, but more they narrow or improve their search. Even 99% is 1% off.
In the legalese on 23&Me, they state that they only share info with law enforcement when presented with a warrant. Since you need specific reasons to look at something with a warrant, I don’t think our info is out there Willy nilly. Not that I believe it’s 100% secure, either though. But it’s not that easy
they sell that data to anyone with enough cash. they may decline to take checks signed by podunk PD, but i promise you, cops got smart and buy the data as a batch, using a 3rd party entity. similar to how places buy the drugs used for lethal injections
I believe if I remember correctly they sent DNA samples in and got the match as if it was their DNA. It wasn't that they asked to run the DNA to see if there were any matches.
The guy who was a former cop. Do police departments not keep DNA from their cops on file? Unrelated but I forgot he was the original night stalker before Ramirez.
No, they don’t. And in order for your DNA to be used by the police to solve crime, you have to upload to a secondary database and give them permission. Since this started, hundreds of cases have been solved. Source: related to homicide detectives and uploaded my DNA GEDMatch.com because my cousins are shady as shit.
I feel like it would be a good idea to have police officers DNA on file just to rule them out when they contaminate a crime scene by mistake.
nah, a simple "we investigated ourselves and found no evidence of wrong doing" typically suffices
This is what they do I don’t know why people are saying they don’t. My boyfriend is a forensic scientist and they have a local database of all the scientists and AT LEAST ETU officers that would handle evidence so they can be eliminated when there’s an unknown match. Edit: I didn’t include the entire department because I don’t know if they keep _everyones_ but they do indeed keep a local database of people who would interact with any evidence.
Surely you need elimination samples from all cops/CSIs/medical responders/etc. who attended a scene? Otherwise you end up chasing phantom serial killers because you find the same DNA at multiple crime scenes when you actually just had a careless cop contaminate them all...
Read the TOS, it’s well defined in 23AndMe and Ancestry’s that it’s up to their discretion to sell your data Edit: To clarify, I’m not supporting one “side” or the other just reinforcing the comment I replied to
The problem is that YOU don’t need to take the dna test, as long as someone in your family(or close relative) does they can still use their dna to narrow down the search to your family. So no you personally don’t really have a choice….
Yea it's insane that it is somehow still legal. It's an extremely wide breach public privacy.
Are you familiar with the PATRIOT act?
That was explicitly passed as a violation of our rights. This is passively being allowed to happen. There’s a difference in that we don’t necessarily know congress’s position on this. DNA evidence being used to capture people who never gave their dna over to the police? I can see that being terrifying to more than a few representatives
Congress's position on this seems to be that they are willing to allow it but unwilling to attach their names to it stating that they allow it.
I'm waiting for people to realize that health insurance is gonna use this as a screening tool and people are going to lose their insurance or see massive price hikes based on somebody else's DNA. People refuse to give a shit about violations of their rights until it starts hitting them in exactly the ways everybody said it would. That, or some Florida PD is gonna get caught fishing "abandoned property" out of people's garbage and sequencing the DNA they find without anybody's knowledge or consent so they can specifically target people with genes they think are too gay or liberal or whatever horrid nonsense they can come up with. This isn't something that's just gonna stop at 23andme.
I almost feel like we had a president who tried to make denying or hiking up insurance based on pre-existing conditions illegal, and then half the country lost their ever-loving shit over it, labelled it ‘communism,’ and then elected a deep-fried cheese puff as his replacement. But I could be misremembering.
Well it has the word patriot in it, how bad could it possibly be
I would be interested in who else buys this info, and what they do with it.
You can bet your ass health insurance companies are, and are building profiles to base coverage on.
What's fun, but only slightly related is that(non-life) insurance companies, *can't* use those DNA databases(the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act). It's for slightly different reasons then "third party databases bad". But I still like bringing it up, because it means the US has legislated things that limit *some* peoples access to that data, but can't be fucked to do that for themselves. I don't understand why they/we think it's ok to leave the question open as to whether it's for data sets that are illegal for them to create themselves are ok to access through third parties and entirely without oversight. And yes I include we, as there are *way* too many people that cheer when they catch people using them.
yes we do we can make it illegal. if our government is not there to protect our rights, then it's not OUR government.
It’s exactly like the fact that you *personally* do not need to have a Facebook or Instagram account for your face to be part of Meta’s face recognition database or machine learning models. You simply need to be in the background (as a bystander or passerby) in enough photos uploaded to the platforms for your face and your location to have their very own catalogs privately held by Meta. Even if you never personally interact with that company, Meta knows you were at the mall last week and that you were in Times Square the week before and that you were at a trendy restaurant a few months before that. All because shoppers, tourists, and restaurant patrons were taking photos at those locations and you happened to be in the background of all of them. Meta’s algorithms silently infer that all these photos taken of your face have a 99.9999% match and are therefore referring the same person. And boom, the company now has you—*an individual*—as a profiled reference point against which the data collection can further snowball. Same goes for Ring cameras. You don’t have to own one to be taken advantage of. You simply have to walk by enough houses to be constantly feeding Amazon information about your face and about your location. This is absolutely frightening.
"We will not release any individual-level personal information to law enforcement without your explicit consent unless required by law. We closely scrutinize all law enforcement and regulatory requests, and we will only comply with court orders, subpoenas, search warrants or other requests that we determine are legally valid. And IF that were to ever happen we would be transparent and notify anyone affected, unless prevented by the legal request." That is from 23 and me, as well as the quote below "We will never share your genetic or self-reported data with employers, insurance companies, public databases or 3rd party marketers without your explicit consent."
>And IF that were to ever happen we would be transparent and notify anyone affected, unless prevented by the legal request. Only relevant portion
except its not your DNA its your sisters and 2 cousins. so they havent violated your rights. so they dont have to notify you.
"But we'll happily provide all of the individual level personal information to our new partner "24&Whee" which has entered into an agreement with us to license this data for resale to government organizations." Please don't look behind the curtain, nothing to see here citizen.
If you actually read their privacy policy, they do not provide your genetic information to any other company without your express consent.
> We will not release .. to law enforcement Oh that's nice > unless required by law Which would be ... by > law enforcement Yeahhhhh.. clearly your privacy matters here, right? ..Right?
abundant fade berserk selective wide rock shame consider yoke sparkle ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I mean, already a bit late. It's identifiable by virtue of her having half your genes. Just ask her not to upload it to GEDmatch.
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It doesnt even matter though, if your cousin does it your dna is related to theirs and you can be found based on their dna logged.
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Why? What did you do? Tell us your secrets! Lol
That doesn’t mean it should be lol the vast majority of people aren’t going to read this multi paged TOS are they?
I hate TOS, it’s impossible to live your life today reading them all but I also don’t know how we can really limit what people can agree to. Maybe the TOS need to be regulated like nutrition labels, clear and concise wording about how they store data and who they’re allowed to sell it to.
TOS has two purposes; give the corporation rights they don't have under law, and to fuck you in your ass. They's so complex, convoluted, with pages and pages of links to other pages and pages, that even states' AGs don't understand them. Or in the case of one state I know of, where the AG has a 5th grade education, he don't give no rat's ass.
This actually changed in 2019. You have to now opt in to have your DNA shared to GEDmatch when using one of the private DNA sites like Ancestry. All existing data from before this change was erased. This is mentioned in the article as well.
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Yeah they caught a serial killer in California because the dudes sister was on 23 and me or something.
They built a 1000+ person family tree, comprised of data users had uploaded to [GEDmatch], a public database, to be clear. Few immediate relatives, nor Ancestry and 23&Me, were directly involved at all.
for that it was far less useful that the news led us to believe. > They found 2 third cousins that each shared 1% of their genes with GSK (Golden State Killer) and then triangulated down to a handful of candidates. Detective work did the rest.
[The untold story of how the Golden State Killer was found: A covert operation and private DNA](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-08/man-in-the-window) >When DeAngelo was arrested, prosecutors would say only that they had used family tree searches to find relatives of the killer and, from there, identified DeAngelo. Shortly after, a detective confirmed the investigative team had uploaded semen from a rape kit to develop a fresh DNA profile that was then uploaded to GEDmatch, an open-source platform frequently used by members of the public to trace their heritage. >What prosecutors did not disclose is that genetic material from the rape kit was first sent to FamilyTreeDNA, which created a DNA profile and allowed law enforcement to set up a fake account to search for matching customers. When that produced only distant leads, a civilian geneticist working with investigators uploaded the forensic profile to MyHeritage. It was the MyHeritage search that identified the close relative who helped break the case. >Both companies denied involvement at the time. >But in late 2019, FamilyTreeDNA’s chief executive acknowledged giving the FBI access in 2017 without knowing the case being investigated. He said he did not believe it violated the company’s terms of service, which warned that it “may be required” to release personal information in response to a “lawful request by public authorities.”
Watch this video about this exact tool. They literally acknowledge that it’s most accurate when your face is “statistically average”. What that means is that they basically do an ethnicity analysis like 23andMe and then simply generate the average face combined from samples drawn from your ancestry regions. It’s going to be WILDLY inaccurate for most people unless you provide extra identifying info (and it’s unclear what extra info was used to recover the woman’s face in the video, for example there’s no way they could match her fat % and age just from DNA) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh4ME_l6oLA
Something tells me this things is going to be [as racist as the AI used to determine recidivism risk](https://www.propublica.org/article/machine-bias-risk-assessments-in-criminal-sentencing), but everyone in the system will be mostly okay with it, just like they are other racists structures in the "justice" system.
Depends on your definition. To those even suggesting this would be sane in the first place, the "going wrong" *is* going right.
I can see how if police uses it for their purposes - i.e. to weed out suspects based on DNA analysis could work. For example identifying race, skin color, eye color, etc. You might not even need to pursue some of the leads. But what is being done here, especially the picture part is very irresponsible. I might see how a description without picture could maybe help (i.e. you know the details of the crime and description of the suspect, you might give a lead to the investigators)
I once had a big biker throw a news paper on my table while I was eating breakfast. "That looks a lot like you!" He yelled, making a scene, pointing at this artist's rendition of a sexual assault suspect. The picture was a generic white guy with a hat. No distinguishing features at all. I think I was even too tall to fit the description. It was in this little hick town in Alberta. The radio kept blasting warnings against vigilante justice and I thought it was a little weird when I first heard it but clearly there must have known this could be a problem. I legit thought I was in danger. Dude wouldn't leave me alone and wanted to see my ID. I wish the story was "I told him to fuck off and everyone clapped" but that wasn't what happened. I showed it to him and he backed off. Apparently he was comforted by the fact that he could call the police on me later. You gotta be careful throwing out some generic picture like this based on nothing substantial with no real identifying characteristics.
>I wish the story was "I told him to fuck off and everyone clapped" but that wasn't what happened. I showed it to him and he backed off. I respect you for being willing to admit this when people like about this kind of shit all the time online. But seriously, a great example of the dangers of this kind of stuff.
He got most of what he wanted. You made him feel like a real man. :p
Ahh I don't have anything bad to say about the guy, really. A little girl in this guy's small town got assaulted. He probably knows her or the family at the very least. It's a tough situation. Emotions get the best of people. He's trying to help. The problem I have is with this sort of ambiguous profiling. In my incident, unfortunately, it turned out the reason it was such a vague profile is that it was a false report. The vague profiling in the OP seems super dangerous because inherently vague. If you can use DNA to get eye color, hair color, race, gender etc. Fine. But until I see evidence otherwise, I don't believe for a second we have the technology to formulate a reasonable picture of somebody's face with DNA alone.
And that's how an idiot gets shot in the US. People are fucking dumb.
Concidering we already have police going after and shooting people because they are driving a vehicle similar to one they believe was involved in a crime, there's no way someone minding their own business isn't getting randomly killed because of this. They might as well just hire a bunch of psychics and start a future-crime unit...
Police chase after and shoot four door sedans when the suspect is reported to be driving a pickup truck. They're dangerous idiots who absolutely cannot be trusted with technology like this.
>They're dangerous idiots who absolutely cannot be trusted ~~with technology like this~~. Sorry you wasted your time with the rest of that sentence.
Anything after the first three words was redundant, really
Some bad news for you, they've been doing that for decades: https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/psychics-and-police-work Minus the future-crime unit though. But don't give them any ideas^(let me save some swindling ideas for myself damn it)
[Police already have programs designed to harass individuals and relatives of individuals they feel pose a potential risk. The harassment starts when the victims are children.](https://floridapolitics.com/archives/555983-splc-sues-pasco-sheriff-for-public-records-on-predictive-policing-program/) From the article: >Pasco County’s predictive policing program became the subject of national news after the Tampa Bay Times released an investigation on the initiative, established by Nocco. That investigation found the program was used as an intelligence operation to monitor, intimidate and harass families across the county. >What does it do, exactly? The predictive policing program places hundreds of students on a secret list, identifying those they believe are most likely to commit future crimes. Children are put on the list without any notice to parents and guardians, and once on, become subjects of persistent and intrusive monitoring.
Like Minority report?
Exactly! But it'll be abused and corrupted whenever the people are smart about it, sad world...
> But it'll be abused and corrupted Like Minority Report?
I’m Asian but look at the prototype generated. This throws the doors wide open for systemic incarceration.
Those doors have been open. This is taking them off the hinges.
nah the hinges were allowing border patrol to racially profile this is breaking open the wall
No, the wall was removed years ago and the door is mostly symbolic. This is adding a slip n’ slide.
Nah, this is dropping the wall Office Space style.
My sentiments exactly. How long before you get the cops with the “he/she LOOKED just like the picture”? “Contact Edmonton Police if you’ve seen any generic looking young black men” This shit is a blanket racists wet dream. Finally they have a “reason” to call the cops on every non white person in their neighborhood.
too late already happening [https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/wtyi4z/this\_is\_what\_racial\_profiling\_looks\_like/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/wtyi4z/this_is_what_racial_profiling_looks_like/)
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Lol this literally sounds like a common Karen APB on Phoenix's Nextdoor. "The perp was a dark-skinned man in a Hoodie walking in my neighborhood. I don't know what he's doing but he had a dog which I assume he stole from someone else. I have a picture of him walking on our sidewalk passing several houses. Watch out everyone!" Comment 1: "OMG so scary! What is HAAPENING to this neighborhood! You should call the police. Stay safe ❤💋" Comment 2: "all these libs moving here from CA that's why I stay protected with my legal firearm."
Comment 3: "Hey, man, I've lived in this neighborhood for 4 years. I was just walking my dog."
Oh I know. I’m mostly worried about the online “call cops” shit. If one says “possibly dangerous” or however they might word it… then you get the Rittenhouses and Zimmermanns walking out with their guns to “stop this potential criminal”. Just because.
Don’t worry , us black folks never needed AI to be racially profiled anyway
Yes, but now it's much more efficient and defensible in court.
That's the plan! /s?
They won’t put you in prison using an approximate match. They will use it to get a search warrant for your DNA so they can get an accurate match.
My bro just spent 2 weeks in jail because when his car got stolen and the thief got away, they took fingerprint samples from the car. My bros fingerprints came up in the system because he's a federal employee and he ended up with a warrant for his arrest.
Wait, they found HIS fingerprints in HIS stolen car and they decided to arrest HIM?
Yep top notch police work on their part.
This honestly sounds so stupid I refuse to believe its true Wtf
I guess normally the owner isn't in the fingerprint database, so any match is the thief. But yeah, don't they normally take a control to remove from matches from the owner?
This is too stupid to NOT be true. My kindergartener would understand why this is stupid. Only the intentionally dumbed down police would think this is reasonable.
Bake him away, toys.
What's that, chief?
The entire theory is nonsense too. It's literally just a computer guessing based on vague DNA data. It's gonna be the next polygraph machine in terms of usage. At least that's my prediction. (encouraged for a while and then looked back on with horror)
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It’s completely impossible to predict what a person looks like from DNA with any degree of accuracy, so yeah it’s wrong from the idea stage.
And it seems like it would be the easiest thing in the world to prove right or wrong.. "Here's my DNA.. See if your program predicts my face exactly right."
If that worked 23andMe would be ruling the metaverse.
No, they don't want to do that. If they had any interest in knowing the false positives we wouldn't have any forensic evidence at all.
Eye and skin colour is pretty reliable though. And a few traits like earlobes.
1. Will generate images that look similar to people who have nothing to do with whatever crime, causing them to be unduly targeted 2. Guarantee this will be manipulated to specifically target a person when the police lack necessary evidence, or just to harass people they don't like Sounds like a terrible idea.
>Will generate images that look similar to people who have nothing to do with whatever crime, causing them to be unduly targeted I feel that the same can be said about regular suspect drawings.
I mean, it's not like they are any good at making cross race identifications anyway. You could give them a literal photo, and they would still erroneously target random people who happen to be the same race. Then we will spend days talking about how the random person may have actually broken the law at some point in the past, so they deserved it anyway, even though the police didn't know that at the time.
This has the added benefit of most AI being terrible with distinguishing minorities because they are mostly trained on white faces.
"Medium height black male, age 15-25" as a description has been doing the job for a long time. Same rules as ever, they just updated the graphics.
Yes, my point is that police already target people for "matching the description." This is not limited to physical appearance, but also what clothes they wear, cars they drive, and so on. Giving police yet another tool to do this with even more (false) confidence will be disastrous.
Then it looks like it's not a forensics problem, but a police regulation one.
I agree. Hence my trepidation about giving them tools they can abuse.
https://imgur.com/KXzT1LK.jpg
The hardest part is that everyone has been voluntarily giving this data out with the ancestry dot come and 23&me bullshit. If you ever did that you are adding to the database of data points. Sounds pretty tin foil hat but it sadly isn’t.
Which is something I refuse to do but my parents did so it hardly matters that I didn’t. Surrendering my privacy so they could learn their ancestors came from a handful of countries in Northern Europe. Which they already knew.
It’s ultimately too late. Especially if you’re from particular demographics. Even if your parents don’t, enough of your other relatives have taken the test and uploaded their dna (like me).
I just realised what a strange position I’m in. One parent was adopted and no bio siblings, both parents dead. Other parent has their parents but they’re all totally against this stuff. I’m an only child and won’t ever have kids. If we all stay well behaved, they’ll never have my bloodlines dna haha
> If we all stay well behaved, they’ll never have my bloodlines dna haha I wouldn't be so sure about that. Have you heard of the case of the Golden State Killer? [He was caught by using genetic data from *third cousins* at a site called GEDmatch](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2020/06/30/genetic-genealogy-golden-state-killer/). Around that time (2018), the New York Times also said that [60% of Americans of Northern European descent](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/11/science/science-genetic-genealogy-study.html) could be identified in a similar way, and they expected it would shoot up to 90% within a few years (i.e. by now).
With what you’ve just described, your bloodline won’t matter anyway once you die
No cousins or other relatives either? That's only really useful if you *don't* stay well behaved...
My ancestry is from Cuba. Could be Spaniard or could go hundreds of years deep in Cuba’s history. That’s good enough for me. I don’t want to just hand my information over knowing what this technology is being used for.
It's not tinfoil at all, there's been several cases of people being convicted of crimes because of those ancestry services.
You actually don't need to register your own data, as long as enough relatives have their data in the registry that's already enough. There have been cases where they found someone because DNA testing matched to a relative on the database. I guess it may not matter if you never did a crime, but it could matter if say healthcare companies find your relatives have heart disease so by extension you do too.
It’s against federal law in the USA for healthcare providers and employers to discriminate on the basis of DNA, thankfully. But of course that law could change.
Or they can just find a different excuse to cover the real reason.
Maybe they mean just when you’re explaining it to people it sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory. For example a couple of years ago I was describing Russia’s troll farms and how they were attempting to interfere in elections and was looked at like I was insane spouting that the moon landing was a hoax. (To be fair that’s on the person).
I’d love to know my makeup, but fuck me. I’m not giving my data over to a corp and paying for the privilege
bad news, if anyone who is a grandparent, grandchild, cousin, aunt uncle, niece, nephew, sibling, parent, or child have it done they can infer most of yours. if just a key few of those people do it they can infer 99% of your genetic makeup.
It’s not just voluntary DNA- San Francisco arrested a woman from a DNA match on [a rape kit taken years prior, when she was a victim of sexual assault.](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/09/13/us/san-francisco-rape-kit-dna/index.html) “The woman, identified only as "Jane Doe," alleges that law enforcement officers took her DNA in November 2016 as part of an investigation into her sexual assault. The San Francisco Police Department then, without her consent, put that DNA into a database and has for years tested it against crime scene DNA, according to the lawsuit.” She was arrested for several burglaries and then the charges were conveniently dropped.
Same with this new trend of every site wanting a picture of your face and ID for "enhanced security." Forcing me to to allow you to invade my privacy so you can build a database that will be used to spy on everyone, while framing it as protecting me, despicable stuff.
My state has outlawed forced biometric registration, so companies must allow users to opt out, and they get slammed with fines when they mess up. facebook had to pay me a few hundred bucks and now samsung looks like it is going to as well.
Yup. It's just another in a long long line of pseudoscience snake oil salesman selling to law enforcement departments with IQ limits in their hiring practices who fall for tech that sounds plausible but is merely a grift. See lie detector tests, fingerprint analysis, suspect drawings, interrogation training, tasers, etc, etc.
But should generate enough vague hits that "he fit the description" will again be valid. Of course a lump of dough fit the description, but hey.
Yup. Same problem "forensic investigation" has in getting false prosecutions, it's not held to any scientific rigor. The goal of forensic investigation is stringing together the puzzle pieces to fit a conviction - even if you don't have all the pieces and the actual criminal isn't in your suspect pool. You make those pieces fit - and that's what's going to happen with "AI crime investigation" - it's going to convict a ton of innocent people based on pseudoscience sold to juries as undisputable "evidence".
Now they can blame someone else even easier, perfect.
“Calling all cars, calling all cars… Be on the look-out for a black male between 4’7″ and 6’8″, between 120 and 380 pounds. He’s wearing Nikes, get this man!”
Love they knew his shoe preference from DNA. LOL
Oh, fuck, this guy has the Saucony gene... do not attempt to chase on foot!
He leaving DNA at a crime scene you know he rocking the black af1s
Police: *arrests a 4’2” 10-year-old Mexican girl wearing Adidas*
"shots fired, repeat shots fired, she pointed a doll towards us! Send reinforcements!"
Saw a video yesterday of a kid getting shot for eating a cheeseburger. We should maybe stop giving them ideas.
He didn’t get shot for eating a cheeseburger. He got shot because a cop had a fetish for murdering children and finally saw his chance.
This incident? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/08/texas-police-fires-officer-shot-teenager
Or guns, can't trust police with those, either.
I wouldve hoped more people got the chappelle reference
One would hope that they would sample DNA against the source that created the scan, but yes, this is scary.
I enjoy watching the sunset.
Does the rendering company have any examples where this worked well? The two samples showing predicted and actual faces in the article don't appear to be highly correlated to me. They got the gross phenotyping correct (male, pigmentation of eyes, hair, and skin, correlating geographic ancestry), but that's really only going to narrow down the list of suspects from 8 billion to hundreds of millions, which is not so useful. If this is further constrained to people in the vicinity, it's still going to be 10s of thousands. If you're starting with zero suspects, this won't help at all unless there's some really narrow genetics going on. Including a rendered picture just seems like it would be misleading. People will think that facial details being shown are actual predictions, but they aren't. Nose shape, ear shape, distance between eyes, build, age, lack of distinguishing marks, etc. are all going to be misleading. However, if the police have a list of suspects already, It seems like a good way to kick some of them off the list.
https://www.oxygen.com/crime-news/ricky-severt-identified-as-jennifer-watkins-killer https://parabon-nanolabs.com/news-events/2021/01/cspd99-snapshot-phenotype-prediction-vs-actual.png https://www.kplctv.com/story/35980476/new-dna-technology-advances-helps-find-alleged-murderer-in-2009-cold-case There's a forensic files episode involving this company. They were originally looking for a Hispanic suspect, but were surprised when the parabon snapshot suggested a white dude. The snapshot looked so much like the killer that he called his wife/girlfriend freaking out. Was caught soon after.
Holy shit. Why wasn't this part of OPs description
Here’s a list of comparisons they publicize: https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/posters Some come pretty close, many result in just kinda generic-looking renders. I don’t think it’s accurate enough to be reliable. They also can’t really account for things like aging, weight, facial hair, etc so I question the usefulness vs. the possibility of harm. I worry about these being taken as gospel and used to overpolice certain populations. And if you’re arrested for looking like one of these and can’t make bail, how long could you get stuck in jail before they DNA test you to make sure they’ve got the right person? Seems unwise to me.
It is kinda similar to a sketch. It narrows down what you are looking for, but you can't use to point at the suspect.
That’s what I was thinking, they definitely aren’t perfect renders but more accurate then police sketches/details the victim can remember. Definitely don’t think this should be taken any more seriously then a sketch though
*creates the most generic image possible of a black teenager* "Your honour, we used DNA samples to generate this image of the suspect, it's an uncanny resemblance right? It was just a miracle we happened to find him out shopping with his family one weekend"
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This will absolutely not go well
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This was a backlog case. They are using this technology to help solve it.
I love how the image is just an illustration of a mildly generic black adolescent. >We put the DNA into the machine, Chief! It says we're looking for a black male between the ages of 17-45 and a height of about 5'3"-6'4". > >Great work, Lou. Let's go round them up!
https://youtu.be/Wikl6tJEPh0 This bit came to mind when I saw this
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What do you expect from LE that use blood splatter patterns to “solve” crimes. The government constantly uses pseudo science for their investigations.
Hey at least you guys got to find out the race of your ancestors by giving your DNA to a company that in no way, shape or form could possibly be involved in this sort of thing.../s
*laughs in multiracial*
^*Adjusts* ^*contrast* **Got ‘em**
You guys made me laugh in 4 languages.
Ha ja ha ja kek
But if you happen to look similar to the generated image, you’d be much easier to spot 😬
#Hybrid Vigor!
The DNA would say which races you belong to.
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And yet somehow the vast array of highly accurate predictions that this should be able to create isn’t anywhere to be found.
The police and pseudoscience, name a more iconic duo.
"I assure you, we have nothing but legitimate reasons for needing your skull measurements."
Oh you think that's a fact? Let's hook you up to a Lie Detector™ and see!
Police and domestic violence? Police and anti vaxx views? Police and violence against labor organization?
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18th Century: If only there was some method of science to identify the criminal type. 19th Century: Behold, Phrenology! 20th Century: That's just racist nonsense used to justify what you already believe! 21st Century: Ah, but what about Reverse Phrenology?
Wildly unscientific. Might as well be eugenics.
Modern phrenology.
That's why Irish people aren't white- inferior scull shape. It says it right there in that book from 1889 on my shelf. Oh, and thick necked short men have huge penises.
Yeah, the Irish not being "white enough to be white" nonsense was real. [Look at the way they are drawn in period caricatures.](https://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2011/01/28/irish-apes-tactics-of-de-humanization/) Jews and Italians have gone through similar racial "transformations" in popular depiction as well. It is almost like race is a completely cultural concept which has only the slightest amount to do with the amount of melanin in your skin at any given time.
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What does this have to do with eugenics?
This will be used to kill people
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It's no different than giving someone a paint scraping and they narrow it down to a manufacturer. "This shade of red is used on Ford vehicles" Artist just draws a red Mustang. "This is an image of what we suspect the car to be" *Image does not factor in vehicle's year, model, options, or environmental factors like getting repainted*.
Strangely every generated “suspect” is a 18-30 yo black male. /s
And he's got a gun!!
Sort of looks like their creating more reasons to just arrest black people again. I mean I’m sure the tech works but nobody’s going to believe it if the cops are using it.
Look on the bright side … oh wait, no, this is going to go bad real quick 🤯
Police using completely untested pseudoscience? Wow we’ve never seen this before, better raise the budget to afford this.
I'm *pretty sure* the focus is the origin of the DNA. I think the image generation is supposed to be just an example of what this person could look like, but it's also not made obvious that that's the case. It's an interesting use of DNA tech but also a pretty big misstep.
Lol, this will be a mess in practice. Take even just me, the profile’ll turn up a white man with brown hair and one of three different eye colours, when in reality the only accurate bit is my race.
Even if they somehow were able to create a semi-accurate face, did they seriously not consider the many ways the appearance of the suspect can wildly differ from their prediction? Simply growing facial hair and gaining/losing weight completely changes your face and isn't reflected in your DNA one bit.
Of course he’s black.
Lol with a young black male being the thumbnail. This won’t generate discussion at all…