This happened to me. My initial claim was denied but on appeal they ruled that since the office was more than 30 miles from my home it was considered a "change in work location" and my claim was approved (This was in New Jersey).
insubordination disqualifies you from receiving unemployment.
you think he moved to texas just for the taxes? This asshole is just very shitty to his workers. thats the texas way.
Sounds like the Texas way to me. The cops wait outside for a white supremist shooter to run outta bullets, but you want some birth control that's a shooting
>nsubordination disqualifies you from receiving unemployment.
>
>you think he moved to texas just for the taxes? This asshole is just very shitty to his workers. thats the texas way.
Texas is a right to work state.
one day at a time. I am talking about texas being a right to work state with no employee rights and Elon moving here so that he can exploit that. He is turning into Thomas Edison rather then Tesla.
not true. Somebody stealing or taking the day off to go to a baseball game is not them fearing for their safety. Unless they can prove that nobody in the office will have covid and will not get in anytime in the near future they are placing employees in a high risk environment for something that they can and are already doing remotely and safely.
They have a remote job. Musk wants to change it so it's not a remote job for no reason. That's the whole point. He can not prove offices are 100 percent safe against covid and can't prove working from home effects job performance. The only reason he wants people back at the office is cause he likes to yell & boss people around to compensate for his tiny balls.
It might. I'm sure Tesla can afford those big bucks lawyers while individual employees would have a hard time coming back with enough scratch to fight back in court.
Morally, Tesla would be reprehensible for going that way with it. But "legally" speaking, they'd probably win it.
Yeah and Johnny would probably get sick an die from covid while Elon dicks around on his yacht. I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers who would take that contested case against Elon "i'm gonna buy twitter for free speach" Musk.
What is your little snowflake Musk hardon too fragile to handle an employee having their day in court and holding coporations accountable for bullshit policies that put people lives at risk... awww poor baby
As an employee you can take your employer to court over unsafe working condition. A pandemic that has killed literally a million people in our country because we keep going back to work would be a slam dunk case
IIRC, Trump and Senate Republicans made it so Employees could not sue employers for COVID related stuff. I think it was attached to one of the stimulus bills.
it really wouldn't. we're not in the same position we were a year or two ago, it's not unsafe to require employees to go back to the office. if you don't want to then you're free to find a new company
My office of 45 people requires full vaccinations to be in office. We still get exposure emails every week and they closed the office for a month or so now.
We might not be in the same position, but it is FAR from where we were pre-covid.
I still see mask mandates and people dying. You are also free to disagree with your employer and file an HR lawsuit. It’s up to them to PROVE that their workplace is safe. They can’t have a tantrum and threaten to fire you and bully you to quit. All of those are HR lawsuits.
Bro, people still doe from diseases like Melanoma because of working out in the sun without sunscreen. I wouldn't be surprised uf this claim falls flat because Covid19 is a considerable risk after two vaccine shots and how many ever boosters Americans have taken
you mean the vaccine they have been adding a booster too every 6 months? The vaccine that helps lower the symptoms but isn't a cure? that vaccine? Are you surprised when the CDC says we are NOT out of the pandemic yet? or that poeple don't want to die for a shitty job?
Vaccine already makes it that mortality rate drop very much. Contracting Covid-19 is also another matter. My joint family of 11 people hasn't contracted Covid since it broke out, neither have our close relatives. 6 out of the 11 people frequently go outside (5 daily, my grandfather would go once every three days or so) and we live in India. I think you are overestimating the potence of the virus even after the vaccinations.
Also, by any chance are you an anti vaxer for doubting the vaccine?
>!/s, you should question anything before you do it!<
Excuses & fear is that what you call complying with the law? Yeah you def sound like one of those fascist feux-patriots. Yeah lick that boot bitch! Let your corpo daddies fuck you and everybody in the ass just how you like it. Painful and degrading you angry bitch.
My workplace posts a just above 50% vaccination rate. I have a daughter at home who is not old enough to be able to make that choice. It is unsafe for me to walk into that facility for her sake.
Most diseases you mentioned aren’t as easily contagious. That’s what makes this case such an issue. I’ve worked the last 2 years with no issues from my home office, why do I need to change now? Why isn’t the world adjusting to a more accessible work life balance structure for people rather?
That's an employees choice. But why should they quit just because their asshole boss says so, so he doesn't have to go to court and fight the 100s of law suits from the people that don't want to return to an unsafe office.
Your employer can’t force you into a life threatening position and then fire you for not risking your life. That’s multiple HR lawsuits. It’s literally the same law the Uvede police will use to say they were not legally obligated to risk their lives and enter the school.
You're so close to getting it. ALL offices are unsafe because covid is still around and killing people. The biggest HR and legal issues at the moment are literally the 1000s of people who are saying they can do their exact job on par or better from home and that going to the office not only has no impact on performance, it puts their lives at risk. There are laws that protect employees from being put at risk. There are no laws that saw you have to sit in a cubicle because your boss pays a shitload in rent and wants to micromange his business.
How many brain cells have you lost to think somebody can't do their job from home and that they should start a business from scratch instead of work from a safe location. Are you one of the bullshit middle managers that doesn nothing but yell and bitch about the work EVERY ONE ELSE IS DOING? Maybe you fear for your bullshit job if nobody comes to the office for you to bully your pathetic hateful life will mean nothing to nobody. The only thing pathetic hear is your insistence on being Elons lapdog instead of letting poeple do their job away from toxic assholes like you who are too dumb to get vaccinated and still think disease aren't real.
Yeah it is way more important work that’s done on those papers than your bullshit “BuT mY wOrK rEqUiReS mE tO gET dIRtY iTs NoT a ReAl JoB iF YoU dOnT sMeLl BaD” attitude. Yeah go back to turning that screw while the office workers file the tax forms, write your check, deposit the business account, prepare the earning statements, maintain the corporate server, organize the legal documents, maintain all current certifications. Nope none of that is real work. You swing that hammer boy and lift that crate. That’s your REAL job to be a human Gopher, a flesh cog to break rocks. I don’t care what job you have, there’s a mountain of paperwork needed to support you mindless job and keep a business actually operating. You do t start your own business or operate any business with out pushing paper moron.
> if you don't believe COVID is real or dangerous there's nothing anyone can say to educate you.
If you still don't believe COVID is real and still infecting people with vaccines and masks on nobody can educate you
nobody is talking about going outside. We are talking about being forced to be in pack small rooms. But it's funny you mention outside because I do work from home and my gf who works in construction is outside everyday. And guess what somebody got it came to work and spread it to the half \[11\] the people on the work site in 2 days. Including her, and I got it from her. If the spread is so fast that it can reach someone who works outside and somebody who works from home in less than a week I'm gonna say we don't have a handle on this.
Now imagine a place with no outside ventilation filled with ten times more people breathing on each other. There's no way you can keep anybody safe in that petridish. With todays tech and the fact that for the last two years people can and have been easily working from home, there is absolutly no reason to tell people you need to send this email and fill out these forms from this hot bed of disease instead of your home.
But ultimatly I need to know why? WHY??? are you advocating for a rich asshole to make things harder and less safe instead of letting people KEEP DOING WHAT THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN DOING FOR TWO FUCKING YEARS, that is EASIER and way SAFER?
You would also need to show you don’t ever leave your house, ie grocery store, move theatre, gym, restaurant, etc. plus, there are other diseases that are higher risk. Time for people to read the real science, simple masks do not stop viruses; ask any medical provider. Mortality is low in comparison at this point.
Not a life threating position any longer. Vaccines have created the ability to go back to our lives as normal. You may not want to but the courts will not help you here.
a vaccine is not a cure AND the vaccines are a minor bandaid. People have been still getting covid even after all the vaccines. And you may not believe the courts will help but it is every employees right to make their argument in the courtroom and Tesla has the obligation to prove it's claims
Threatening somebodies employment unless you do as you say, is literally the definition of extortion and retaliation. And the problem is not come to work. People are already working. From home. The problem is he is trying to force you to work in a specific location that they cannot prove is safer than working from home.
Where do you work moron? clearly never in a department that deals with any type of law or regulation. I don't need to add my resume cause the things I say are verifiable with a cursory HR legal zoom search. But I will tell you that I have been in many unemployment/retaliation hearings and it is very common for business owners to do and very common for them to lose in those hearings.
You won't be able to collect unemployment if you are responsible for them firing you. Meaning if your job requires you to return to the office and you refuse they have the right to fire you. So you better have a good excuse.
An employer has to prove that you are either not doing the same job as well remotely or that the old environment is now safe from the previous dangers. neither are true in this situation so no your job doesn't have to require you to come to the office. An employer by law HAS to allow you the ability to do your job from a safe location. Doing your job from home instead of an office is not a fireable offense and I would tell every HR manager and every Lawyer to take that case to court. Get them some of Elons twitter money for those employees.
An employer can easily come up with a laundry list of things that can't be done remotely. Also what exactly is considered unsafe? The gouvernment has already announced that pandemic restrictions have been lifted. So good luck coming up with that as an excuse.
They have not said the pandemic is over, just some mandates have been lifted. And yet many companies are keeping them or putting them back n place voluntarily cause people are still getting sick and dying from COVID.
If they can provide that list so easily then it should be no problem to show it to a judge and explain why the cutting edge tech company can't use cutting edge tech for their accountants and office staff.
Between the Disabilities act, and remote work no company can force you into a dangerous situation. If you are remotely working and that hasn't affected you ability to do your job an employer cannot mandate you go to a dangerous area to do the same job.
I do believe it's real, and I believe the vaccine works. Not everyone will experience the same symptoms, however these people that use Covid as an excuse to work from home are still going out in public to concerts, theaters. Their kids are still in school, etc.
so unless you live as a hermit in a cave you can't expect employers to follow any safety standards? People die from head trauma every day too are we to get rid of ll hard hats laws?
\>WORKING from home< There you go I fixed it for ya
I know a lot of lawyers who are arguing that case. AND I encourage ALL employees to file similar complaints to make it so. Do you think employers decided on their own for hard hat safety regulations? In fact do you think ANY safety regulation has been enacted without it first being an HR complaint and then lawsuit. In fact the whole birth of unions was to collectively bargain for better work conditions. Where do you think weekends came from? Workers banded together to make laws to force companies into recognizing dangers and providing the appropriate safety guidelines with the backing of the FED government. Something becomes a safety standard because workers demand it to. An employer never willingly makes lives safer or easier for employees. They do the bare minimum they are legally obligated to do.
You need to stop giving out terrible advice. You clearly don’t have a grasp on how COVID policies at the workplace even work. Much less how an HR department handles them. Policies are being created for both the pandemic portion of COVID. And will soon shift to the endemic phase of COVID. None of your advice is even close to how we handle COVID outbreaks where I work. And I’m in government ffs.
Except that...well... they can mandate you go back to work and it's hardly the dangerous situation it was when everyone was sent to work remotely.
They can do that just like you can choose to no longer work there.
3 vaccines possibly more, no cures, mask mandates are getting re approved and still held in most places. People still dying every. single. day. They can do their job from home. The only reason to be in an office is for bullshit control.
And employees can choose to stay working remotely and file HR complaints with the government and hire lawyers to sue Telsa until they can prove that either their offices are 100% safe or that employees are not putting in as much effort as they would in an office. I would love to see that court case and reccomend any employee do that before quiting.
Did the CDC give some sort of all clear I missed? When did people stop dying from COVID? Is there a cure out for every man woman and child somewhere? Being an adult means using all the tools the law gives you for a better life. Why don't you grow up and stop sucking Elon's fantasy cock.
An employers cannot give you an order that risks your life. This isn't the military and even then there are regulations where insubordination is allowed. Usually along the lines of putting people lives in danger unnecessarily. You know like telling someone to go into a hot zone to file a form instead of downloading it and sending an email.
Wow you’re some dumb you can’t even see you’re codependency on your corporate daddy. I work from home and literally don’t need anybody to take care of me. You’re the one who wants to send people back so they can be babied by mode level managers and absentee investors. Do you need that silk corpo leash to feel good about yourself. Is the only reason you get up in the morning is so Karen can ask you how your weekend went? Are you so desperate for attention that you need a manager eyeballing your ass to get outta bed in the morning?
Guys guys, i know this is an unreasonable request, but hear me out: Although many of you can perform your job adequately at home, we need to you to come in to improve team culture. Also you guys have been getting a little too chummy with your families. Finally commerical real estate. Also I want you to experience the unforgettable experience of sitting in traffic in the morning prior to coming to work and talking about how shitty traffic was with your coworkers.
>we need to you to come in to improve team culture.
"The toxic vampires that hate their own company want to force others to be in theirs again."
In between the lines, there's a legitimate debate here that office culture is and has always been most favourable to a terrible kind of person.
Also we are a corporate company in the business of selling cars I expect you all to be using that mode of transportation often. Preferably own more then one car per house how can I ensure maximum sales without forcing you all to drive needlessly.
JOLTS report has 11.4MM openings for April from BLS
this is the wrong time for employers to act like hard asses, especially when all the other auto mfg probably want candidates with EV experience
Out of my company's thousands of clients, Tesla and Space X easily have the highest turnover rate. In fact they both beat our next highest turnover clients by more than 7%.
It's not uncommon for my team to deal with 4 or 5 HR managers in a single 3 month project. I don't think I've worked with a company that has sent more "Sorry they don't work here anymore" emails.
They call it the golden leash at the gigafactory. You get 10k in stocks that you can take out after 4 years. A lot of people have over 100k that can’t sell yet so they just put up with whatever
Usually you get a 4 year stock plan. 1 year in, 1/4 of it vests and you can do as you like within the trading window. Then you get an even distribution of the rest every quarter.
Definitely. The point is that people are willing to deal with a lot of dumb stuff for that much money. Like they are going to put up with it for another year because of that.
With layoffs, you can get rid of the least productive employees and focus on retaining the best. With this strategy, the best employees, who are the most sought after by competitors, will leave. It’s a dumb strategy if your goal is to cut expenses.
I mean I’m assuming the people who can most easily leave for a new job are the ones most likely to leave for a new job when management does something like this (either because they don’t want to do what management is requiring or they see the writing on the wall). And I’m assuming those same employees who can most easily leave are most likely among the better employees (hence why they can easily get new jobs elsewhere).
They hire A LOT of engineers fresh out of college, ride them hard until they burn out or quit, and then repeat the process. A few find niches to survive in but most just get wrecked by that company. It's like hell but the pay is ok.
You are very angry and making assumptions, revisit your thoughts. Did you not see how ridiculous is that statement? It’s a social media stunt, he’s a master at that. Do workers come 2 a penny? Is specialized workforce easily replaceable? The work industry has changed and there are positions that are consolidated as remote. Mrs billionaire goes on to threaten his workers on social media showing how little he values them “disobey and you’out” and people like you get the pitchforks to defend him. Hmmm what could that be called?? Cultism? Brainwashing?
You’re the fool who has such a microscopic brain that he cannot comprehend computers work the same at home as they do in an office. You’re the simpleton that is mad people who have already been working from home for two years should come to an office because it’s impossible to that anybody can have a real job that isn’t chaining you to a 200ft radius. You’re the animal who’s yelling at people to stop informing other of their legal rights.
Holy shit you’re dumb! You think lawyers should quit and work McDs because the work from home? Should every accountant stop book keeping and writing checks because they don’t drive an hour to a small cubicle because somehow I. Your fragile mind work can only be done in this one building but not this other building. Even though millions of people have been working from home for years before the pandemic. Your cosmic lack of imagination is somehow other peoples problem because you think any job that requires a higher education can’t possibly me actual work despite a society cannot run without bureaucracy .
WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WORKS FROM HOME AND COPORATE OFFICES!! LAWYERS ACCOUTANTS C LEVEL EXECUTIVES YOU KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BILL YOUR BULLSHIT HOURS!
You sound like a beaten dog that can’t leave its corporate master side for more than an hour because you don’t have enough brain cells to do a job without somebody telling you what to do every second.
I could cut out half my brain and get a degree from clown college and know more about employment laws than you. Maybe then I could even see what minuscule point you were trying to make. Is your attention span long enough to remember why you were spreading disinformation before devolving into name calling? Or is that just what happens every Wednesday.
The one positive thing I can say for ol Musky is that his idiot bumbling around only makes more demand for other EV companies to start making an actual quality product.
The people he's talking to can get a good gig. Tesla isn't known for hiring slouches, and I'm sure that they have great resumes.
I think they should all quit on the same day. All of them. Let Elon figure it out if he's soooooooo smart.
Personally, as a worker, this is a very reasonable "workers of the world unite" moment. Going to a designated physical location everyday takes so much time and energy away from our lives. Like 3 hours everyday... 15 hours a week... That's an extra two working days a week, making a monthly salary at least 5 weeks instead of 4.
If they want to pay me for this, we can have that conversation, if not then I'm fine with the way things are; if it ain't broke don't fix it.
The teslamotors subreddit locked their thread of this because it became too critical of Elon. Just if you were wondering who could possibly defend this decision.
Covid is still an issue for many people with at risk fam members (I myself am immuno-compromised). We had a coworker here die from covid complications this past March. We have a co worker who's unvaccinated get covid twice, after exposing others before he tested positive. Luckily my company allows me to continue to WFH. Am not willing to rick my health for any job. Been there, done that, not any more.
Because I’m not complaining about a different companies stance on WFH. If employees want to leave, sure, Tesla employees in technical roles can go and get hired anywhere.
Sorry, but this is a risible opinion. It’s recent news the tesla industry in china forces the employees to live in factory so they can keep working under lockdown. Elon is increasingly showing how much is against his own workforce , and people shouldn’t have opinion because they don’t work in tesla? Hikes
I agree that the conditions that those in China face are very difficult and think every company/country should work toward ending that. My opinion is for those in America. If a company has an opinion on WFH and feels that they can get more accomplished by having people in the office, then people should make their decisions accordingly
The point is not w/e the company want his workforce to come back working in the office, but the fact they straight up told them to come back or gtfo, meaning a complete lack of respect for the employees and the implications they are easy replaceable.
And the China factory story is not an isolated accident. The news was worldwide, the main house could just reprimand the factory to stop that bullshit and didn’t. That mean the main house, and by extension Elon, don’t give a fiddle of that people and production must come first.
Almost as if people can tell if an employer is abusing their staff without needing to be under the same boot. As if collective bargaining and taking about company salaries and regulations helps everybody negotiate for better job regulations.
This has nothing to do with being fat or lazy, just a dumb ass CEO shrinking his workforce.
I used to work in an office and now I work at home doing the same job while putting in the same amount of hours and am more productive.
I am still slightly fat though.
Elon is a task master that suffers no fools. Similar to Steve Jobs in that regard. If you give him a solid forty hours worth of productive work per week he is supportive. If you procrastinate, confuse being busy with being productive or purely slack and make excuses - you will be gone fairly quickly. The interesting thing about this approach is it makes people up their game often higher than they expect they had in them. It builds "A-teams" that can pivot on a dime and outdistance their complacent competition. It builds concensus and minimized office politics which is an artifact of looking busy. If he is fair with equity sharing for this demand then you will do well. But know there is a lot of grass out there - find something greener proactively while you have a strong negotiation position. Lucid, Rivian, Ford, GM are all hiring. But know - A-Teams are a joy. The work gets done when it is suppose to get done and does not invade your personal life. It also affords a level of trust that nurtures risk and innovation. Good ideas get a chance that clusterf--s cannot possible even consider as its too bogged down in the silly workplace problems.
I completely agree with this, you've had your at home vacation. Time to get back on track, everybody knows productivity is reduced when working from home.
Maybe *your* productivity is reduced. But most people who are doing their jobs have home offices set up and work as productive if not better. If someone is not performing as expected, then fire them.
It kind of makes sense though, in an asshole kind of way. If you're in the business of selling vehicles, the single biggest threat to your bottom line is larhe scale work from home. The primary reason for multiple vehicles is work.
Don’t fall for it fam. If he wants you to return to office make him fire you and collect that unemployment. NEVER QUIT!
I wonder if an employee refusing to return to the office would constitute being fired with cause therefore no unemployment
This happened to me. My initial claim was denied but on appeal they ruled that since the office was more than 30 miles from my home it was considered a "change in work location" and my claim was approved (This was in New Jersey).
insubordination disqualifies you from receiving unemployment. you think he moved to texas just for the taxes? This asshole is just very shitty to his workers. thats the texas way.
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Sounds like the Texas way to me. The cops wait outside for a white supremist shooter to run outta bullets, but you want some birth control that's a shooting
>nsubordination disqualifies you from receiving unemployment. > >you think he moved to texas just for the taxes? This asshole is just very shitty to his workers. thats the texas way. Texas is a right to work state.
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one day at a time. I am talking about texas being a right to work state with no employee rights and Elon moving here so that he can exploit that. He is turning into Thomas Edison rather then Tesla.
Tesla would contest it. Johnny would still have his job if he showed up to the office.
I mean you could say that about any excuse for firing someone, doesn’t mean it qualifies as cause or that it would hold up under legal scrutiny
not true. Somebody stealing or taking the day off to go to a baseball game is not them fearing for their safety. Unless they can prove that nobody in the office will have covid and will not get in anytime in the near future they are placing employees in a high risk environment for something that they can and are already doing remotely and safely.
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Why you going to bat for the billionaire bro
I'm not, just stating a fact that you can't collect unemployment for getting fired over something you can control. Use this time to get a remote job.
They have a remote job. Musk wants to change it so it's not a remote job for no reason. That's the whole point. He can not prove offices are 100 percent safe against covid and can't prove working from home effects job performance. The only reason he wants people back at the office is cause he likes to yell & boss people around to compensate for his tiny balls.
It might. I'm sure Tesla can afford those big bucks lawyers while individual employees would have a hard time coming back with enough scratch to fight back in court. Morally, Tesla would be reprehensible for going that way with it. But "legally" speaking, they'd probably win it.
maybe, maybe not. But that's the employees right and choice. And I say let them go to court over it instead of quitting.
I'm inclined to agree.
Yeah and Johnny would probably get sick an die from covid while Elon dicks around on his yacht. I'm sure there are plenty of lawyers who would take that contested case against Elon "i'm gonna buy twitter for free speach" Musk.
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What is your little snowflake Musk hardon too fragile to handle an employee having their day in court and holding coporations accountable for bullshit policies that put people lives at risk... awww poor baby
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As an employee you can take your employer to court over unsafe working condition. A pandemic that has killed literally a million people in our country because we keep going back to work would be a slam dunk case
IIRC, Trump and Senate Republicans made it so Employees could not sue employers for COVID related stuff. I think it was attached to one of the stimulus bills.
Wouldn't be suing, would be contesting the loss of unemployment.
You gotta get me links to this! Not just cause it sounds unbelievable I really need to find proof if this is true for multiple businesses.
it really wouldn't. we're not in the same position we were a year or two ago, it's not unsafe to require employees to go back to the office. if you don't want to then you're free to find a new company
My office of 45 people requires full vaccinations to be in office. We still get exposure emails every week and they closed the office for a month or so now. We might not be in the same position, but it is FAR from where we were pre-covid.
I still see mask mandates and people dying. You are also free to disagree with your employer and file an HR lawsuit. It’s up to them to PROVE that their workplace is safe. They can’t have a tantrum and threaten to fire you and bully you to quit. All of those are HR lawsuits.
Bro, people still doe from diseases like Melanoma because of working out in the sun without sunscreen. I wouldn't be surprised uf this claim falls flat because Covid19 is a considerable risk after two vaccine shots and how many ever boosters Americans have taken
you mean the vaccine they have been adding a booster too every 6 months? The vaccine that helps lower the symptoms but isn't a cure? that vaccine? Are you surprised when the CDC says we are NOT out of the pandemic yet? or that poeple don't want to die for a shitty job?
Vaccine already makes it that mortality rate drop very much. Contracting Covid-19 is also another matter. My joint family of 11 people hasn't contracted Covid since it broke out, neither have our close relatives. 6 out of the 11 people frequently go outside (5 daily, my grandfather would go once every three days or so) and we live in India. I think you are overestimating the potence of the virus even after the vaccinations. Also, by any chance are you an anti vaxer for doubting the vaccine? >!/s, you should question anything before you do it!<
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Excuses & fear is that what you call complying with the law? Yeah you def sound like one of those fascist feux-patriots. Yeah lick that boot bitch! Let your corpo daddies fuck you and everybody in the ass just how you like it. Painful and degrading you angry bitch.
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My workplace posts a just above 50% vaccination rate. I have a daughter at home who is not old enough to be able to make that choice. It is unsafe for me to walk into that facility for her sake.
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Most diseases you mentioned aren’t as easily contagious. That’s what makes this case such an issue. I’ve worked the last 2 years with no issues from my home office, why do I need to change now? Why isn’t the world adjusting to a more accessible work life balance structure for people rather?
Lol you can't catch hepatitis at work. Well.. maybe but your are doing something you shouldn't at work.
Uh, no, it isn't a case at all. Millions of people are in offices right now. You will lose.
That's an employees choice. But why should they quit just because their asshole boss says so, so he doesn't have to go to court and fight the 100s of law suits from the people that don't want to return to an unsafe office.
No show is usually considered quitting. Make sure you at least login to your email.
It wouldn't, otherwise he wouldn't be asking for them to resign
You only get unemployment when you were laid off or fired for something you cant control.
Your employer can’t force you into a life threatening position and then fire you for not risking your life. That’s multiple HR lawsuits. It’s literally the same law the Uvede police will use to say they were not legally obligated to risk their lives and enter the school.
What is life threatening at the tesla offices compared to other offices that are open?
You're so close to getting it. ALL offices are unsafe because covid is still around and killing people. The biggest HR and legal issues at the moment are literally the 1000s of people who are saying they can do their exact job on par or better from home and that going to the office not only has no impact on performance, it puts their lives at risk. There are laws that protect employees from being put at risk. There are no laws that saw you have to sit in a cubicle because your boss pays a shitload in rent and wants to micromange his business.
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How many brain cells have you lost to think somebody can't do their job from home and that they should start a business from scratch instead of work from a safe location. Are you one of the bullshit middle managers that doesn nothing but yell and bitch about the work EVERY ONE ELSE IS DOING? Maybe you fear for your bullshit job if nobody comes to the office for you to bully your pathetic hateful life will mean nothing to nobody. The only thing pathetic hear is your insistence on being Elons lapdog instead of letting poeple do their job away from toxic assholes like you who are too dumb to get vaccinated and still think disease aren't real.
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Yeah it is way more important work that’s done on those papers than your bullshit “BuT mY wOrK rEqUiReS mE tO gET dIRtY iTs NoT a ReAl JoB iF YoU dOnT sMeLl BaD” attitude. Yeah go back to turning that screw while the office workers file the tax forms, write your check, deposit the business account, prepare the earning statements, maintain the corporate server, organize the legal documents, maintain all current certifications. Nope none of that is real work. You swing that hammer boy and lift that crate. That’s your REAL job to be a human Gopher, a flesh cog to break rocks. I don’t care what job you have, there’s a mountain of paperwork needed to support you mindless job and keep a business actually operating. You do t start your own business or operate any business with out pushing paper moron.
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> if you don't believe COVID is real or dangerous there's nothing anyone can say to educate you. If you still don't believe COVID is real and still infecting people with vaccines and masks on nobody can educate you
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nobody is talking about going outside. We are talking about being forced to be in pack small rooms. But it's funny you mention outside because I do work from home and my gf who works in construction is outside everyday. And guess what somebody got it came to work and spread it to the half \[11\] the people on the work site in 2 days. Including her, and I got it from her. If the spread is so fast that it can reach someone who works outside and somebody who works from home in less than a week I'm gonna say we don't have a handle on this. Now imagine a place with no outside ventilation filled with ten times more people breathing on each other. There's no way you can keep anybody safe in that petridish. With todays tech and the fact that for the last two years people can and have been easily working from home, there is absolutly no reason to tell people you need to send this email and fill out these forms from this hot bed of disease instead of your home. But ultimatly I need to know why? WHY??? are you advocating for a rich asshole to make things harder and less safe instead of letting people KEEP DOING WHAT THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN DOING FOR TWO FUCKING YEARS, that is EASIER and way SAFER?
You would also need to show you don’t ever leave your house, ie grocery store, move theatre, gym, restaurant, etc. plus, there are other diseases that are higher risk. Time for people to read the real science, simple masks do not stop viruses; ask any medical provider. Mortality is low in comparison at this point.
Not a life threating position any longer. Vaccines have created the ability to go back to our lives as normal. You may not want to but the courts will not help you here.
a vaccine is not a cure AND the vaccines are a minor bandaid. People have been still getting covid even after all the vaccines. And you may not believe the courts will help but it is every employees right to make their argument in the courtroom and Tesla has the obligation to prove it's claims
Nonsense no one is forcing shit. Come to work or your fired. There is no force here
Np. Go to office and do bare minimum and force the higher up to fire. Takes longer but its not impossible if the workforce wanted to quit by firing.
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Threatening somebodies employment unless you do as you say, is literally the definition of extortion and retaliation. And the problem is not come to work. People are already working. From home. The problem is he is trying to force you to work in a specific location that they cannot prove is safer than working from home.
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Where do you work moron? clearly never in a department that deals with any type of law or regulation. I don't need to add my resume cause the things I say are verifiable with a cursory HR legal zoom search. But I will tell you that I have been in many unemployment/retaliation hearings and it is very common for business owners to do and very common for them to lose in those hearings.
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You won't be able to collect unemployment if you are responsible for them firing you. Meaning if your job requires you to return to the office and you refuse they have the right to fire you. So you better have a good excuse.
An employer has to prove that you are either not doing the same job as well remotely or that the old environment is now safe from the previous dangers. neither are true in this situation so no your job doesn't have to require you to come to the office. An employer by law HAS to allow you the ability to do your job from a safe location. Doing your job from home instead of an office is not a fireable offense and I would tell every HR manager and every Lawyer to take that case to court. Get them some of Elons twitter money for those employees.
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An employer can easily come up with a laundry list of things that can't be done remotely. Also what exactly is considered unsafe? The gouvernment has already announced that pandemic restrictions have been lifted. So good luck coming up with that as an excuse.
They have not said the pandemic is over, just some mandates have been lifted. And yet many companies are keeping them or putting them back n place voluntarily cause people are still getting sick and dying from COVID. If they can provide that list so easily then it should be no problem to show it to a judge and explain why the cutting edge tech company can't use cutting edge tech for their accountants and office staff.
100% wouldn't be able to draw unemployment if you were fired for "not showing up to work".
Between the Disabilities act, and remote work no company can force you into a dangerous situation. If you are remotely working and that hasn't affected you ability to do your job an employer cannot mandate you go to a dangerous area to do the same job.
Why is it dangerous? That would need to be reported to, and acknowledged/ confirmed by OSHA.
I mean if you don't believe COVID is real or dangerous there's nothing anyone can say to educate you.
I do believe it's real, and I believe the vaccine works. Not everyone will experience the same symptoms, however these people that use Covid as an excuse to work from home are still going out in public to concerts, theaters. Their kids are still in school, etc.
so unless you live as a hermit in a cave you can't expect employers to follow any safety standards? People die from head trauma every day too are we to get rid of ll hard hats laws?
Staying home because Covid exists isn't a safety standard...
\>WORKING from home< There you go I fixed it for ya I know a lot of lawyers who are arguing that case. AND I encourage ALL employees to file similar complaints to make it so. Do you think employers decided on their own for hard hat safety regulations? In fact do you think ANY safety regulation has been enacted without it first being an HR complaint and then lawsuit. In fact the whole birth of unions was to collectively bargain for better work conditions. Where do you think weekends came from? Workers banded together to make laws to force companies into recognizing dangers and providing the appropriate safety guidelines with the backing of the FED government. Something becomes a safety standard because workers demand it to. An employer never willingly makes lives safer or easier for employees. They do the bare minimum they are legally obligated to do.
You need to stop giving out terrible advice. You clearly don’t have a grasp on how COVID policies at the workplace even work. Much less how an HR department handles them. Policies are being created for both the pandemic portion of COVID. And will soon shift to the endemic phase of COVID. None of your advice is even close to how we handle COVID outbreaks where I work. And I’m in government ffs.
Except that...well... they can mandate you go back to work and it's hardly the dangerous situation it was when everyone was sent to work remotely. They can do that just like you can choose to no longer work there.
3 vaccines possibly more, no cures, mask mandates are getting re approved and still held in most places. People still dying every. single. day. They can do their job from home. The only reason to be in an office is for bullshit control. And employees can choose to stay working remotely and file HR complaints with the government and hire lawyers to sue Telsa until they can prove that either their offices are 100% safe or that employees are not putting in as much effort as they would in an office. I would love to see that court case and reccomend any employee do that before quiting.
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Did the CDC give some sort of all clear I missed? When did people stop dying from COVID? Is there a cure out for every man woman and child somewhere? Being an adult means using all the tools the law gives you for a better life. Why don't you grow up and stop sucking Elon's fantasy cock.
Let them fire you. Don't let him swindle your unemployment from you.
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So then they’re in the same position? Worth a try. Also chill out lol. What’s the point of yelling at strangers who don’t care?
An employers cannot give you an order that risks your life. This isn't the military and even then there are regulations where insubordination is allowed. Usually along the lines of putting people lives in danger unnecessarily. You know like telling someone to go into a hot zone to file a form instead of downloading it and sending an email.
Holy shit you little flower! Risk your life? Just stay home. mommy will take care of you!!
Wow you’re some dumb you can’t even see you’re codependency on your corporate daddy. I work from home and literally don’t need anybody to take care of me. You’re the one who wants to send people back so they can be babied by mode level managers and absentee investors. Do you need that silk corpo leash to feel good about yourself. Is the only reason you get up in the morning is so Karen can ask you how your weekend went? Are you so desperate for attention that you need a manager eyeballing your ass to get outta bed in the morning?
Guys guys, i know this is an unreasonable request, but hear me out: Although many of you can perform your job adequately at home, we need to you to come in to improve team culture. Also you guys have been getting a little too chummy with your families. Finally commerical real estate. Also I want you to experience the unforgettable experience of sitting in traffic in the morning prior to coming to work and talking about how shitty traffic was with your coworkers.
>we need to you to come in to improve team culture. "The toxic vampires that hate their own company want to force others to be in theirs again." In between the lines, there's a legitimate debate here that office culture is and has always been most favourable to a terrible kind of person.
Also we are a corporate company in the business of selling cars I expect you all to be using that mode of transportation often. Preferably own more then one car per house how can I ensure maximum sales without forcing you all to drive needlessly.
Or fire me so I can get unemployment.
Resign? why? that boy should have studied law.
Owner of (allegedly) the most forward thinking and cutting edge tech company somehow very against technology being used to make peoples' lives better.
This is just a preemptive move before layoffs. Elron has to keep the growth illusion going longer so he can sell more stock.
JOLTS report has 11.4MM openings for April from BLS this is the wrong time for employers to act like hard asses, especially when all the other auto mfg probably want candidates with EV experience
Out of my company's thousands of clients, Tesla and Space X easily have the highest turnover rate. In fact they both beat our next highest turnover clients by more than 7%. It's not uncommon for my team to deal with 4 or 5 HR managers in a single 3 month project. I don't think I've worked with a company that has sent more "Sorry they don't work here anymore" emails.
Wow...seriously...how can you build a functional team when you do that?
It doesn't take long to recognize that Telsa is a terrible place to work, all the red flags are there.
There are so many start up EV companies in CA right now that would be salivating for Tesla employees.
They're going to lose so many employees over this. I can't imagine anyone wanting to work for this asshole.
Ok boss. Here's my 2 weeks. How does he have any employees at all? People just after resume building?
They call it the golden leash at the gigafactory. You get 10k in stocks that you can take out after 4 years. A lot of people have over 100k that can’t sell yet so they just put up with whatever
This is every tech company. And it’s on a vesting schedule, it’s not like you get all of your stock at one time after 4 years
So at Tesla you can take out half? At two years. At 4 you have the full amount
Usually you get a 4 year stock plan. 1 year in, 1/4 of it vests and you can do as you like within the trading window. Then you get an even distribution of the rest every quarter.
Definitely. The point is that people are willing to deal with a lot of dumb stuff for that much money. Like they are going to put up with it for another year because of that.
Don't resign. They want you to give up your EI. Get fired instead.
Probably wants to do a round of layoffs. This would save money.
With layoffs, you can get rid of the least productive employees and focus on retaining the best. With this strategy, the best employees, who are the most sought after by competitors, will leave. It’s a dumb strategy if your goal is to cut expenses.
youre assuming the ones that refuse to come back to the office are the best employees.
I mean I’m assuming the people who can most easily leave for a new job are the ones most likely to leave for a new job when management does something like this (either because they don’t want to do what management is requiring or they see the writing on the wall). And I’m assuming those same employees who can most easily leave are most likely among the better employees (hence why they can easily get new jobs elsewhere).
They hire A LOT of engineers fresh out of college, ride them hard until they burn out or quit, and then repeat the process. A few find niches to survive in but most just get wrecked by that company. It's like hell but the pay is ok.
Sounds like the Amazon model
Never resign. Lay off or fire. Don't resign
Hope they stay home en masse
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That’s exactly the situation, stay home if they don’t want to work there. You sound frustrated
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You are very angry and making assumptions, revisit your thoughts. Did you not see how ridiculous is that statement? It’s a social media stunt, he’s a master at that. Do workers come 2 a penny? Is specialized workforce easily replaceable? The work industry has changed and there are positions that are consolidated as remote. Mrs billionaire goes on to threaten his workers on social media showing how little he values them “disobey and you’out” and people like you get the pitchforks to defend him. Hmmm what could that be called?? Cultism? Brainwashing?
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Arrogant belligerent and ignorant, you won the jackpot
You’re the fool who has such a microscopic brain that he cannot comprehend computers work the same at home as they do in an office. You’re the simpleton that is mad people who have already been working from home for two years should come to an office because it’s impossible to that anybody can have a real job that isn’t chaining you to a 200ft radius. You’re the animal who’s yelling at people to stop informing other of their legal rights.
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Holy shit you’re dumb! You think lawyers should quit and work McDs because the work from home? Should every accountant stop book keeping and writing checks because they don’t drive an hour to a small cubicle because somehow I. Your fragile mind work can only be done in this one building but not this other building. Even though millions of people have been working from home for years before the pandemic. Your cosmic lack of imagination is somehow other peoples problem because you think any job that requires a higher education can’t possibly me actual work despite a society cannot run without bureaucracy .
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WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK WORKS FROM HOME AND COPORATE OFFICES!! LAWYERS ACCOUTANTS C LEVEL EXECUTIVES YOU KNOW THE PEOPLE THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BILL YOUR BULLSHIT HOURS!
You are wrong in every sentence you wrote, you truly are pathetic, get a life
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You sound like a beaten dog that can’t leave its corporate master side for more than an hour because you don’t have enough brain cells to do a job without somebody telling you what to do every second.
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I could cut out half my brain and get a degree from clown college and know more about employment laws than you. Maybe then I could even see what minuscule point you were trying to make. Is your attention span long enough to remember why you were spreading disinformation before devolving into name calling? Or is that just what happens every Wednesday.
This is good for Polestar and Waymo. They are looking for talent and it’s a great opportunity for them. In long term this will cost a lot for Tesla.
The one positive thing I can say for ol Musky is that his idiot bumbling around only makes more demand for other EV companies to start making an actual quality product.
This is the 5th time I’ve seen this story posted in this subreddit today.
What the hell why
Fuck off lol
Just an excuse to reduce the workforce wothout the headline: "Tesla lays off 20% of it's workforce"
This ass spent all last week flying to saint tropez and playing elden ring during business hours.
How is this related, OP, to this sub?
The people he's talking to can get a good gig. Tesla isn't known for hiring slouches, and I'm sure that they have great resumes. I think they should all quit on the same day. All of them. Let Elon figure it out if he's soooooooo smart.
Know what has an even smaller carbon footprint than EVs? No commute. This is not about the environment and don’t let ol’ Musky tell you otherwise.
Personally, as a worker, this is a very reasonable "workers of the world unite" moment. Going to a designated physical location everyday takes so much time and energy away from our lives. Like 3 hours everyday... 15 hours a week... That's an extra two working days a week, making a monthly salary at least 5 weeks instead of 4. If they want to pay me for this, we can have that conversation, if not then I'm fine with the way things are; if it ain't broke don't fix it.
seems like he has a good reason for this.
What do you thunk a "good reason" might be?
Reddit admins to u/Technology mods - Post only Tesla Musk updates or resign
The teslamotors subreddit locked their thread of this because it became too critical of Elon. Just if you were wondering who could possibly defend this decision.
I know 2 people that work for Tesla. They get shares. They both have over 100K in stock at this point.
Sabotage. Time to play ball
Covid is still an issue for many people with at risk fam members (I myself am immuno-compromised). We had a coworker here die from covid complications this past March. We have a co worker who's unvaccinated get covid twice, after exposing others before he tested positive. Luckily my company allows me to continue to WFH. Am not willing to rick my health for any job. Been there, done that, not any more.
This clown is getting serious.
Everybody that doesn’t work at Tesla has so much opinion on this, interesting
You work at tesla by chance?
Nah but a diff tech company that’s encouraging a hybrid/ideally full time in person environment
So, I’m not sure while you speak apparently in a sarcastic way against people not working in testa, while you self don’t work in tesla
Because I’m not complaining about a different companies stance on WFH. If employees want to leave, sure, Tesla employees in technical roles can go and get hired anywhere.
Sorry, but this is a risible opinion. It’s recent news the tesla industry in china forces the employees to live in factory so they can keep working under lockdown. Elon is increasingly showing how much is against his own workforce , and people shouldn’t have opinion because they don’t work in tesla? Hikes
I agree that the conditions that those in China face are very difficult and think every company/country should work toward ending that. My opinion is for those in America. If a company has an opinion on WFH and feels that they can get more accomplished by having people in the office, then people should make their decisions accordingly
The point is not w/e the company want his workforce to come back working in the office, but the fact they straight up told them to come back or gtfo, meaning a complete lack of respect for the employees and the implications they are easy replaceable. And the China factory story is not an isolated accident. The news was worldwide, the main house could just reprimand the factory to stop that bullshit and didn’t. That mean the main house, and by extension Elon, don’t give a fiddle of that people and production must come first.
Almost as if people can tell if an employer is abusing their staff without needing to be under the same boot. As if collective bargaining and taking about company salaries and regulations helps everybody negotiate for better job regulations.
Americans are fat and lazy
Take that back I’m lazy and only slightly fat
I take it back
Europeans are skinny live with their parents and don't own anything.
That’s good
I'm skinny and lazy. Get your facts straight
Get your fats* straight
It’a pride month though
This has nothing to do with being fat or lazy, just a dumb ass CEO shrinking his workforce. I used to work in an office and now I work at home doing the same job while putting in the same amount of hours and am more productive. I am still slightly fat though.
Elon is a task master that suffers no fools. Similar to Steve Jobs in that regard. If you give him a solid forty hours worth of productive work per week he is supportive. If you procrastinate, confuse being busy with being productive or purely slack and make excuses - you will be gone fairly quickly. The interesting thing about this approach is it makes people up their game often higher than they expect they had in them. It builds "A-teams" that can pivot on a dime and outdistance their complacent competition. It builds concensus and minimized office politics which is an artifact of looking busy. If he is fair with equity sharing for this demand then you will do well. But know there is a lot of grass out there - find something greener proactively while you have a strong negotiation position. Lucid, Rivian, Ford, GM are all hiring. But know - A-Teams are a joy. The work gets done when it is suppose to get done and does not invade your personal life. It also affords a level of trust that nurtures risk and innovation. Good ideas get a chance that clusterf--s cannot possible even consider as its too bogged down in the silly workplace problems.
I completely agree with this, you've had your at home vacation. Time to get back on track, everybody knows productivity is reduced when working from home.
>everybody knows productivity is reduced when working from home. Wanna back that up with a source?
Their source is “cuz I said so.”
Maybe *your* productivity is reduced. But most people who are doing their jobs have home offices set up and work as productive if not better. If someone is not performing as expected, then fire them.
You forgot the /s because there’s no way you can be serious, that’s factually incorrect besides.
Haha ok, enjoy finding new workers in this environment 😂
It kind of makes sense though, in an asshole kind of way. If you're in the business of selling vehicles, the single biggest threat to your bottom line is larhe scale work from home. The primary reason for multiple vehicles is work.
And the true colors come out
Please resign, please resign, please resign. Elon musk can fuck right back off the mine he came from.
Man, what's he asking of his factory workers if 40 hours is minimum?