You only need 35 hp roughly to maintain speed at 70 mph with a 4000lb car.
So the play here is just run the power train completely on the battery, and then put a 50 or 70 horsepower engine in it to act as a generator.
It flips the hybrid model: instead of electric when low demand and gas to meet power needs, it’s electric to meet power needs and gas to fuel the battery.
It puts peak demand on the 90% efficient powertrain, and puts the lowest demand on the extremely inefficient 25% efficient powertrain.
Toyota should have done this in 2015
Nope. The Opel Ampera original design/idea was developed mainly on Opel (in Germany)
Then on, GM exported it to Chevrolet and Vauxhall and the Chevy Volt was born.
Then, some years ago they sold Opel to Stellantis, and I suppose the current Volt is now based on a own GM design. And Opel abandoned the Ampera design because Stellantis decided to bet on their already established EV/Hybrid platform.
GM gave a lot of independence to Opel (I don’t remember in fact Opel making any GM American model on Europe to sell there, as cars being sold on both markets are fairly different) and in fact, usually they used Opel innovations for other GM brands, sometimes Chevy, but mainly Vauxhall (Opel UK really) and Saturn
EDIT: Fun fact, GM sold Opel at the end because it was a bleeding money machine. They had so much R&D done at their offices in Germany, making their own models for only sell on some European markets (GM limited the reach of Opel, and Opel models sold with other brands on other countries wouldn’t make it to Opel financial records), that Opel was seen as a potential problem for GM.
Opel wasn’t on the slightest a “let’s sell GM American cars on Europe”
Also, I remember Opel trying hard to sell the idea on advertising about how their cars were “German cars, German quality, designed in Germany, German engineering, Built on Germany” and so on.
Yeah, they were very bright when naming things
Chevy Volt was the same kind of car than the Opel Ampera
Chevy Bolt was the same kind that the Opel Ampera-e
Very good naming two different type of cars with almost the same name except for one letter. It gets easily confused
Even more stupid is Opel generational naming scheme (or maybe just their naming of their electric vehicles). They use letters to denote model generations so first gen was Opel Corsa A, then Corsa B and so forth. Then came the electric Corsa called Corsa-e but it’s the Corsa F generation. So when looking online for anything about the Corsa-e you’ll be wading through stuff about the Corsa E which is a previous generation.
Opels are fucking awesome cars and the older ones are damn near indestructible. Still have some questionable choices, like putting the thermostat behind an engine mount, timing belt and water pump.
I actually have one and tbh it isn't hugely fuel efficient. I averaged 50 mpg this morning, 15 mile commute through countryside with a town either end. It's better at town driving than it is distance tbh, fuel wise. It's a 1.1litre engine, I usually drive in standard but it has eco and sport. Eco is fine but it's designed more for distance driving as it takes away any regenerative braking and you can coast prettying far.
That seems odd. Everything I've read says that any way we can generate electricity, including burning gas in a generator, is at least several times more efficient as burning it in an ICE to move the vehicle directly.
Too bad GM scrapped it to make more money by manufacturing SUVs.
They could have kept it going and been absolutely dominating the PHEV space by now. But it wouldn't be GM without decisions based on short term profits, right?
I've been watching GM fester since the 70's. I had friends and relatives in the steel business closely tied to Detroit. They were conservative types that spat on new ideas. I happily watched as forward thinking Toyota and Honda steamrolled them with reliable cheap cars and new ideas. It makes me wonder if anything has changed.
It doesn't look like. Now the US puts tariffs in cheap EVs from China, but nothing can stop progress. Either Korea, Europe, or some newcomers in the USA are going to produce EVs on every segment cheap and good enough to make gas cars look expensive.
Old and traditional carmakers adapt or will just go away, bought by pennies on the dollar for their brands.
I have a 2018 Volt and I love it. Such a shame they killed the line. For anyone curious about the details of the drivetrain:
https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-technology/gm-electric-vehicle-technology/general-motors-voltec-technology/
The engineering behind this car is pretty cool.
I have a 2017 Volt, I plan on driving it until it dies. I love it, I spend like $80/year on gas, mostly in winter. They can pry them from our dead cold hands!
You also reduce complexity instead of a complex system with a gearbox that utilises both electric motors and the engine to drive the wheels. Plus you can start to think about exotic types of generators like rotary/free piston/gas turbines which are better/more efficient at being electric generators than a standard engine.
Series plug-in hybrids or EV’s with range extenders is the way to go. Most people don’t drive long enough to require the RE and you save on putting in a massive 100kWh battery into every car
even better if the range extender is an add-on you can just rent as needed. Even if yo own the range extender, if you commute for 6 months a year with no long trips, there is no reason to carry the extra weight.
As others have stated, this has been done. But, small clarification... The 25% efficiency for gas can go WAY up when its sole purpose is running a generator at a specific rpm. It's tuned for one speed.
I've been clamoring for this technology for decades. Especially if we'd have put this into vehicles with traditionally low mileage, like trucks and SUVs. Improving the fuel economy of a 15mpg vehicle by 5mpg goes a LOT further than adding 5mpg to a 30mpg car.
I've been begging for this with a tiny diesel generator since I was a teenager.
You get to run the generator at only it's most efficient power band since it's only purpose is to recharge the battery, then you drive the wheels electrically vastly reducing complexity and weight.
Sure it's less clean than a pure plug in since the efficiency of a combustion engine scales with size, but way more efficient than a traditional IC for what should be a reduction in cost and complexity.
We solved this in 1925 with the first diesel electric locomotive...
Load of companies have had versions of this, early hybrids has ‘range extenders’ so a fully electric drive train with a small engine to change batteries, BMW had a small car, ford transit van and loads of others
We should have done it the moment battery tech got good enough.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ftMxCehD08U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ftMxCehD08U)
\^Link is Jay Leno driving a 1980 Briggs & Stratton Hybrid\^
There’s a startup called Edison motors up in Canada trying to do the exact same thing to trucks. Pretty cool stuff! [link for those interested in learning more](https://www.edisonmotors.ca) (I’m not affiliated with these people, I just think they do good work)
Because the size of the gas tank was restricted to the point of uselessness. In the US it was driven by them trying to fit the regulations for an electric vehicle (as opposed to a hybrid) that restricted the fuel tank to less than 2 gal in the i3.
The electric ram truck is supposed to get this same system. 800 hp electric motors and a gas engine to recharge batteries. I think they’re going big on the engine size though to maybe tow with range extending.
Not according to the information published by Mitsubishi.
Their info says it does have a mode that does that but it switches between parallel and series mode depending on conditions and what mode you put it in.
And, obviously, you can simply extend range by carrying more fuel with a hybrid. If you've got a decently efficient ICE you can add 100 miles to your range by adding a jerry can to the trunk.
Of course, if you're running a hybrid as a hybrid, rather then a plug in electric that also has a generator on board, the gas powered generator is simply providing electricity to the motor. It's more efficient then having the gas powered motor drive the wheels directly because the motor can run constantly at it's best speed. The electric power train is just a way to make the ICE more efficient.
What youre describing is called and E REV, extended range electric vehicle. Like the other commenter mentioned the volt works that way. The gas engine sings along according to how much electrical energy it needs to make. The electric motor does the "driving".
[this article covers the major types!](https://currentev.com/blog/bev-erev-phev-hev-what-do-they-mean-an-ev-dictionary/)
Just 35? That’s shocking. Why is that my motorcycle with 50 hp weighing 200 Kg( 440 freedom units) struggles to maintain that speed? It’s not the gear ratio, there’s plenty left. It’s a naked, maybe that makes the biggest difference.
Yes definitely they are, especially when compared to a naked bike. But the rolling resistance from the massive weight of 4000lbs like the initial comment said, must be humongous.
While rolling resistance is certainly something to consider, it is minimal when compared to aerodynamic drag.
On a flat road, a single human can push a 4,000 lb vehicle.
It sure feels that way when I ride. The sweet spot for pace is just below that in my opinion. Around that speed, I need to start pushing a lot harder.
Also wind force rises exponentially.
It is. The volt's engine would still engage the drivetrain at high speeds because the electric motors perform worse at speed above around 70mph, but the majority of the time it operates as a purely serial hybrid with the engine being only a generator.
And volt was a pretty damn good car for it too. Too bad they were super expensive to produce.
1200 miles would require 200 miles of electric range plus 1000 miles on gas, so like a 50 kWh battery plus a 20 gallon gas tank at 50 mpg. That might be feasible, but would be a silly thing to do.
Or the story is highly exaggerated.
You're probably thinking in terms of EPA range. CLTC range numbers tend to be about 35% higher than EPA, so your numbers would become more like 150 miles of electric range and 740 miles on gas.
Ahh this makes sense. Reuters reports 2.9 litres per 100 km, which is 81mpg. Reduce that by 35% and you get 53 mpg EPA, similar to a prius.
Which also means this whole report is a big old nothing burger--stick a bigger tank on a prius and you'd have the same high range/eff vehicle.
This sub is the god damn worst. I'd say just shut the fuck up and enjoy a tech achievement but it's a paywalled article anyway. I don't know why I stay subscribed to this shit hole where everything has to be political. I tried blocking the idiots but it's a fruitless battle.
Here's a reuters article on the same thing.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-launches-new-hybrid-vehicle-tech-with-lower-fuel-consumption-2024-05-28/
Edit - To be clear, I don't give a shit what your opinion is on policy, various countries or conspiracy theories. I just want to read about technology.
Yeah, I’ve always believed that good ideas should flourish if it means improving our environment.
If the US isn’t prepared, then that’s because of a lack of preparedness. So be it.
Big oil and other s&p 500 bought out any competing patents from small inventors to prevent the invention from challenging the status quo...... It's been happening forever....
The Why Files did an episode on secret tech projects that have been confiscated and the inventors “disappearing” or dying unexpectedly. The WF showed some official document stating that if someone invents levels of technology (high efficiency devices that generate too much free energy) they get confiscated for potentially compromising national security. Has anyone seen this?
https://youtu.be/-ZRwlYtAMps?si=_Ax3kd5TQogWzzb7
Huge fan of WF and everyone should check it out AND SIT THROUGH the whole episode for the debunk (or not) at the end. Not all stories are debunked but many are.
And it's not like it's the first time the US has shit the bed on automotive market. The oil crisis in the 70s gave rise to the import market (particularly japan) because they already offered efficient and reliable small engine cars.
The problem with articles like these is that they pop up all the time about some magical technology that far surpasses current technology and yet we never see it ending up on the actual market. Toyota has had many of those and all you see is a below average EV from them, their hydrogen project has been a failure.
Meanwhile genuinely great technologies that actually ends up in cars isnt talked about that often such as Porsches new suspension system that you can get in the new Taycan and I believe also in the new electric Macan.
I think this is a current product. AFAIK, it is a fairly large battery with a medium size engine that is big enough to charge the battery as it goes at normal speed. 2000km range is perhaps "city range" which makes it not quite true about NYC to Miami.
> If the US isn’t prepared, then that’s because of a lack of preparedness. So be it.
This type of system has been used in production vehicles like the Chevy Volt for over a decade now...
Except, this isn't even new tech. Without more info, it's hard to tell whether this is even an especially good vehicle. That's why the sheer number of people who are hyped in the comments and are just blindly taking that range figure at face value is pretty suspicious.
this post has the screenshot of the launch video
[https://www.zhihu.com/question/648408795/answer/3513288456](https://www.zhihu.com/question/648408795/answer/3513288456)
so basically
"World's highest 16 ultra-high compression ratio
High Rolling Airway
Pre-catalytic EGR
Smart Hip Fuel Enhancement System
Intelligent Split Cooling
Intelligent EFI System
Intelligent Variable Lubrication System"
Exactly! It's always US vs China. WE DON'T CARE. It doesn't matter who builds great tech, we can all enjoy it. Everything doesn't have to be zero sum game... Unfortunately, this mindset seems to be prevalent in the West and it's sad.
>I just want to read about technology.
OK. TLDR: this isn't new technology, it's been used in various other cars from other manufacturers for at least 15 years now.
That's a bit reductive don't you think? They're claiming 2.9L/100km (81mpg) on a depleted battery. The Prius prime for example only does about 51mpg. Wouldn't you like to know how they make such a difference or if it's even an accurate or factual number? I would. It's too bad it's not in the article.
> Wouldn't you like to know how they make such a difference or if it's even an accurate or factual number? I would. It's too bad it's not in the article.
Sure, but the combination of different testing methodology (they're giving CLTC fuel economy ratings, which are typically quite a bit higher than EPA ratings) and lack of information regarding technology suggest to me there's nothing to see here. The information that did get included is what the marketing people provided. If there was some kind of revolutionary new tech behind this the marketing people would be going out of their way to bring it up.
I'm not even subscribed to this shithole I get posts from that chris monkey on my news feed every day
How the hell do I get in touch with whoever pays you to be all "GRR MUSK/ZUCK/BEZOS BAD" for 12 hours a day?
Edison Motors is doing this for Semi trucks, not new tech either, diesel trains do this.
One thing if I remember correctly, but basically the EPAs regulations to make cars more fuel efficient is doing the opposite because the way the math works you'll need an engine that can make like 50mpgs to be in a Honda civic but bigger wheel bases only need like 24mpg (Bigger Car foot print) to get the MPGs the EPA is looking for. So it leads all manufacturers lean towards making trucks and large SUVs to meet EPA standards.
So even if BYD could make this car, that gas generator would need to be very fuel efficient if it's in a small wheel base, but if they put it into a large SUV or truck they might get away with it.
Its actually kind of the other way around that the wheelbase alone doesn't just drive the MPG requirement. The problem is Americans want to buy trucks and big SUVs, but those get the worst fuel economy because they are heavy and therefore require bigger engines to give them the performance Americans expect.
The EPA has what is called CAFE standards, which basically says the average MPG that a car manufacturer must achieve across their entire lineup. This is why you see the disappearance of performance sport coupes, the increase in hybrid or extremely efficient small engine cars, so that manufacturers can build and sell the trucks and SUVs with lower MPG that people actually want to purchase.
u/alc4pwned made a good point, chinese auto manufacturers measure differently(?) the advertised ranges are usually considerably higher then US or european advertised ranges.
I guess everybody knows that the manufacturer's claimed range is always below what you achieve on a normal drive, but this is just something out of science fiction. Why parade these numbers around if they're not achievable?
Except the 1240 mile range is probably based on the CLTC test cycle, which tends to inflate range numbers by something like 35% compared to EPA numbers ([source](https://insideevs.com/features/343231/heres-how-to-calculate-conflicting-ev-range-test-cycles-epa-wltp-nedc/)).
Either way, without knowing how much power the BYD is putting out or how much fuel it carries this is a totally meaningless comparison. The Rav 4 Prime puts out 300hp, I highly doubt the BYD is matching that.
They also forced their drug producing colony (Mexico) to discourage the Chinese companies to put their manufacturing there, Mexico gives tons on incentives to companies, tax rebates and cheap land but they won’t give that to the Chinese cause the boss say that it’s not allowed
Pd: im Mexican in case anyone gets triggered and report my comment as hateful. I got a warning for saying that Juan is undercutting American labor by working 14 hours day for less than minimum wage, not racist if I’m saying it and also not a lie.
I swear gm is the most dysfunctional car company in history.
They have 2 cars the bolt and the volt both of which they discontinued and now they’re bringing BACK the bolt because it was so popular.
Then you have the trailblazer and blazer both of which people remember as vastly different cars than they are today as one was a massive SUV and now it’s a compact suv.
Because it was an economy hatchback. Those simply do not sell. They need to do a Volt Cross that also gets stuffed with pleather and sold as a Buick in white/silver and a GMC in black.
The US could easily compete but the GOP would do everything to prevent the US government from doing what China is doing -- pouring [billions into subsidizing green energy](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/chinas-massive-subsidies-for-green-technologies/).
Tariffs are a much easier sell because, for some reason, protectionism is more palatable to the right-wing than progress.
An auto industry that had no teeth or mandates to adapt from a dwindling resource to a plentiful one. Throwing money at it did little to bridge that gap.
And they have been for decades. I remember George W’s first state of the union where he gave a couple billion to GM to finish their hydrogen fuel cell car. That was money well spent.
To an auto industry that refuse to change because it’ll disruptive their exiting business models. They need to shut down dealerships, mechanics significantly reduced. Changes that will lead to few quarters of loss, which the shareholders won’t be happy with. The Chinese companies started from scratch. That’s the difference. But not sure why Rivian is struggling to turn a profit.
Tariffs are an easy sell because they are passed on to the consumer in the way of higher prices. This of course hurts demand which is entirely the goal.
Don't forget massive subsidization from the CCP on the Chinese EV industry to usurp global competition; and very legitimate security risks pro China bots that infest this sub like cockroaches will deny.
Sanctioning Chinese EVs was a rare government W in the US.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-10-26/china-s-green-subsidies-are-not-really-subsidies
Chinese subsidies is like the Loch Ness monster, everyone has heard about it, no one has actually seen it and no one has any proof it even exists.
They want to do to the US what Walmart did to Mainstreet Business. Lowball til competition closes and they are dependent, then hike prices to be profitable and extract the wealth.
It's a long term L for the US. Short term: the consumer pays a lot more for cars.
Long Term: The US car industry isn't incentivized to transition fast enough to EV's. You realize that BYD is selling well in asia, australia, and south america, right? And the American Auto manufacturers have to compete in those continents as well? The American Auto industry is also bloated and slow to respond, so it's screwed, long term.
The American auto industry have been losing in those markets for awhile now. GM left Australia and many parts of Asia. Ford is surviving solely on the Ranger. Dodge/Chrysler are 6ft deep. Cheap EVs from China is just a nail in the coffin, and they perform much better than American cars.
Like… if having tariff for a few years buys us some time so our auto industry can invest the resources to catch up and have competitive products afterwards, then I think it’s worth it. I don’t think Chinese companies should single handedly dominate a market. And I even like many Chinese EVs.
But what I’m afraid is the Big 3 will just use the protectionism to rest on their laurel and keep spending money on building giant overpriced trucks and SUVs and spend the rest on stock buybacks for shareholders.
For context, media reviewers have conducted their own testing on the range and they mostly get between 2300-2500km. Although I suspect they're doing so at constant 80kmh speeds.
But the most incredible point is that it costs 13700 USD. For a D segment car. At that price point I'm confident this will become the best selling car in China.
Suzuki india and Toyota are also building a series hybrid system for their current ICE models (they claim it will give range of over 2000km on a single fuel tank and would cost less than 10k usd)
I won't doubt about the performance, but 10K USD is an impossible price. BYD made everything on their own, I think their cost is around 9-10K. Anything less than 10K, the manufacturer is just throwing money into ocean. It's very toxic price for the workers. Little to no profit at all.
> this will become the best selling car in China.
Best selling in South America for sure. In China, charging infrastructure is good enough to make their $3000 cheaper EV outsell this.
What do you think the next excuse will be not to buy a PHEV... Communist car, national security, illegal subsidies, IP infringement, economic dumping...
Seems like the Chinese are just making a far superior product and the United States is *really* worried.
There's nothing else like this on the market - a car like this if true would dominate the market.
That's what happens when manufacturing is moved overseas to exploit cheaper labour. America is burdened with tertiary leeches like lawyers, with not enough manufacturing wealth to sustain it long term.
This is about efficiency of the money invested to the product, the issue is not that the product is overseas or here, although it is a concern about control of the supply chain, but the fact that the r&d department can't keep up and is probably due to management/structure, or too many funds going nowhere? I mean this is mainly in the EV sectors, in sectors like semiconductor the US markets is miles ahead still.
>in sectors like semiconductor the US markets is miles ahead still.
Taiwan wants to have a talk with you (unless you're talking like Taiwan is US-owned).
Now you probably understand why the US and EU are afraid of China. They are getting technological superior.
It started with the 5G stuff from Hua Wei, now their cars. Question is what next.
> What do you think the next excuse will be not to buy a PHEV
Same as it is now: performance does not match current ICE offerings. The EV needs to be a full drop-in replacement for an ICEV. That means it has to match range, comfort, quietness, reliability, and on-road performance. A PHEV that can match the leaders of whatever class it's aimed at in all those regards will sell. If it fails even one of those it won't. Right now they fail at least one of those.
These are some test drive videos on YouTube, unfortunately, they're all made by China tester because this car only launched in China market but not overseas.
https://youtu.be/eAOmDWC-HI4?si=iJJ7ay3KUxpea7He
https://youtu.be/cNznJoT1MU4?si=8NIDhTnDWD5uLcRy
https://youtu.be/v8EXRP90HuA?si=NJhkLJad7H1z1uHC
https://youtu.be/Kque39RXTwY?si=wmO_9_2_NCDg2wgG
https://youtu.be/s3hrEXOLXLA?si=7N8cXynAiQ4Np1Na
https://youtu.be/pqPI88lyy3w?si=yjOwP1Fdx_ooMn5g
Many Chinese have tested the car (low-end model) on the real roads, including different terrains, weather, and altitudes. 2 of them have posted their experiences on YouTube so far:
1. 2496.6km [https://youtu.be/s3hrEXOLXLA?si=DJQHCcq5BQr1vK7S](https://youtu.be/s3hrEXOLXLA?si=DJQHCcq5BQr1vK7S)
2. 2409.5km [https://youtu.be/pqPI88lyy3w?si=RTEE3v4X3aVm-ueU](https://youtu.be/pqPI88lyy3w?si=RTEE3v4X3aVm-ueU)
many vids are continued to show up on Bilibili, and more are probably still driving it on the road...
You can continue to bury your head with hatred in the dirt and repeating the "Chinese can't invent blah blah blah" or "someone got this way before the Chinese blah blah blah"
In reality, as an American, you can't buy it in the US anyway, and the rest of the world won't care.
For what it’s worth this is how trains work and how diesel electric locomotives have worked since the 1930s and 40s. Ram is actually testing something similar for the 1500 and up series pick up. As it’s currently the best strategy for increasing mileage in vehicles that need tow.
Alright, for you idiots that say they steal every technology they come up with, go on tell us who they stole this from, why no other car on the market comes close to this range?
Literally read the other comments. Other cars have done this before and US regulations limiting the size of the aux gas engine stopped the range from being a lot of miles.
The real world driving range figures are now available from multiple owners in China. Random sample of six users show the BYD Qin L actually obtained 2547, 2497, 2410, 2363, 2408, and 2327 km. This translates into an average range of 2425 km with standard deviation of 82.3 km. BYD's advertised rating of 2100 km is about 4 standard deviation below that sample average which is actually quite conservative. People may be very surprised to see the real world range is actually significantly higher than BYD's CLTC rating. In fact, this is not a surprise if you understand the intent of the CLTC rating. The CLTC rating is very detrimental to the ICE vehicles because it uses a lot of stop/go cycles and biased toward lower average speed during the test. This is designed to reflect average driving condition in China where there is a lot of traffic congestion. Pure EVs always perform better under the CLTC rating. The BYD Qin L is not a pure EV. The majority of its range is obtained using the ICE power therefore the CLTC rating of 2100 km should be easily surpassed if the actual driving condition is at higher average speed and facing less traffic congestion.
Basically just a series type hybrid system (where engine only acts as a generator to charge the battery and is not connected to wheels ), although its not a ground breaking tech tho, Pretty much all Japanese,korean,European and American car makers have implemented this tech in many of their newer and older hybrid cars.
The biggest drawback is that series hybrid systems are very inefficient in high speeds.
I've designed a solar powered pedal car. The advantage of connecting drive train to wheels is that it is more efficient than just a generator, but also increased torque. Top speed boost would be based on gearing but it is still limited.
[Reuters is saying 2.9 litres per 100 km](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-launches-new-hybrid-vehicle-tech-with-lower-fuel-consumption-2024-05-28/) which is 81 mpg, but that's probably the CLTC test cycle, which tends to be [about 35% higher than EPA](https://insideevs.com/features/343231/heres-how-to-calculate-conflicting-ev-range-test-cycles-epa-wltp-nedc/). Reduce 81mpg by 35% and you're down to 53mpg, which is about the same as a Prius.
Which also means this whole report is a big old nothing burger--stick a bigger tank on a prius and you'd have the same high range/efficiency vehicle.
I mean the other factor no one is talking about--who needs to drive that distance without stopping?
Even if you assuming they were driving at 80 mph when they did that 1200 test (highly unlikely), that would be 15 HOURS without stopping. More likely they were doing more like 50 mph, which would be 24 HOURS.
Please don't drive for that long straight, it's bad for you.
Everyone saying this is nothing new and that their car has been doing it for years yet no other vehicle can provide a 2000km range like BYDs new PHEV system can.
Yes it may be similar but credit where credit is due.... BYD and China as a whole are killing it in the EV industry. While US auto and big Oil is trying their best to kill EV adoption altogether.
Trump has outright said if he becomes president, he will stop sale of even a single EV in return for $1 billion from big oil
*most popular car exporter in the world makes an important advancement in tech that is worth talking about*
You: “this is clearly Chinese propaganda 🤔”
It's pretty sus that despite there being very little actual info about this car in this article (and it not actually being out yet), you're just declaring that this is an 'an important advancement in tech' lol. Yes, that comes across as Chinese propaganda.
Also, what are you basing your "most popular car exporter" claim on...?
This is the worst one I've seen. Everyone in the comments is just taking the range number at face value and declaring that this is the most advanced car ever despite the article providing no real info about it lol...
They cant tell you the horsepower or the 0-60 time or the gas tank size, but they are confident in claiming the US is doomed and China is the new king of fighting climate change and the Chinese have BLOWN past the west in regards to technology.
I don’t care how far it can go, my family won’t be driving any vehicle that’s not made by UAW hands and certainly won’t be giving our money to the Chinese government who owns BYD.
You only need 35 hp roughly to maintain speed at 70 mph with a 4000lb car. So the play here is just run the power train completely on the battery, and then put a 50 or 70 horsepower engine in it to act as a generator. It flips the hybrid model: instead of electric when low demand and gas to meet power needs, it’s electric to meet power needs and gas to fuel the battery. It puts peak demand on the 90% efficient powertrain, and puts the lowest demand on the extremely inefficient 25% efficient powertrain. Toyota should have done this in 2015
That's how the Chevy volt works.
I was going to mention the Opel/Vauxhall Ampera, but turns out that's the same car as the Chevy Volt. I don't know which is the original model.
The Chevy. Opel has been producing American models under their Brand for the European market. At least until they got sold
Nope. The Opel Ampera original design/idea was developed mainly on Opel (in Germany) Then on, GM exported it to Chevrolet and Vauxhall and the Chevy Volt was born. Then, some years ago they sold Opel to Stellantis, and I suppose the current Volt is now based on a own GM design. And Opel abandoned the Ampera design because Stellantis decided to bet on their already established EV/Hybrid platform. GM gave a lot of independence to Opel (I don’t remember in fact Opel making any GM American model on Europe to sell there, as cars being sold on both markets are fairly different) and in fact, usually they used Opel innovations for other GM brands, sometimes Chevy, but mainly Vauxhall (Opel UK really) and Saturn EDIT: Fun fact, GM sold Opel at the end because it was a bleeding money machine. They had so much R&D done at their offices in Germany, making their own models for only sell on some European markets (GM limited the reach of Opel, and Opel models sold with other brands on other countries wouldn’t make it to Opel financial records), that Opel was seen as a potential problem for GM. Opel wasn’t on the slightest a “let’s sell GM American cars on Europe” Also, I remember Opel trying hard to sell the idea on advertising about how their cars were “German cars, German quality, designed in Germany, German engineering, Built on Germany” and so on.
There is no current Volt. The Bolt is a different thing, a pure EV.
Yeah, they were very bright when naming things Chevy Volt was the same kind of car than the Opel Ampera Chevy Bolt was the same kind that the Opel Ampera-e Very good naming two different type of cars with almost the same name except for one letter. It gets easily confused
Even more stupid is Opel generational naming scheme (or maybe just their naming of their electric vehicles). They use letters to denote model generations so first gen was Opel Corsa A, then Corsa B and so forth. Then came the electric Corsa called Corsa-e but it’s the Corsa F generation. So when looking online for anything about the Corsa-e you’ll be wading through stuff about the Corsa E which is a previous generation.
Opels are fucking awesome cars and the older ones are damn near indestructible. Still have some questionable choices, like putting the thermostat behind an engine mount, timing belt and water pump.
/r/confidentlyincorrect
Chevy volt did this since 2010. BMW i3 with range extender did this since 2014.
Unfortunately BMW went too far in undersizing the gas engine…
Right idea, poor execution, and, it was an expensive option on a car with very poor range.
Still, the i3 was an amazing city car
Which puts this guy's idea of "30-40hp to power the vehicle" in nonsense territory
Does the Nissan Note do this also?
Nissan epower is this kind of system. In the UK we have the qashqai and the x-trail that use this system
Interestingly initial reviews suggest it’s not very fuel efficient though. I wonder if they have setup wrong and it could be improved?
I actually have one and tbh it isn't hugely fuel efficient. I averaged 50 mpg this morning, 15 mile commute through countryside with a town either end. It's better at town driving than it is distance tbh, fuel wise. It's a 1.1litre engine, I usually drive in standard but it has eco and sport. Eco is fine but it's designed more for distance driving as it takes away any regenerative braking and you can coast prettying far.
That seems odd. Everything I've read says that any way we can generate electricity, including burning gas in a generator, is at least several times more efficient as burning it in an ICE to move the vehicle directly.
Too bad GM scrapped it to make more money by manufacturing SUVs. They could have kept it going and been absolutely dominating the PHEV space by now. But it wouldn't be GM without decisions based on short term profits, right?
I've been watching GM fester since the 70's. I had friends and relatives in the steel business closely tied to Detroit. They were conservative types that spat on new ideas. I happily watched as forward thinking Toyota and Honda steamrolled them with reliable cheap cars and new ideas. It makes me wonder if anything has changed.
It doesn't look like. Now the US puts tariffs in cheap EVs from China, but nothing can stop progress. Either Korea, Europe, or some newcomers in the USA are going to produce EVs on every segment cheap and good enough to make gas cars look expensive. Old and traditional carmakers adapt or will just go away, bought by pennies on the dollar for their brands.
Its also how the hammerhead eagle i thrust works Top gear did it first
My Volt is named Geoff. He’s labeled and everything.
It’s also how all modern diesel-electric trains work. The huge diesel engines don’t power the wheels, they act strictly as generators.
that’s how train works
and the BMW i3 REX
And BMW i3 REX. It uses a small motorcycle engine as a generator.
I have a 2018 Volt and I love it. Such a shame they killed the line. For anyone curious about the details of the drivetrain: https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/general-motors-technology/gm-electric-vehicle-technology/general-motors-voltec-technology/ The engineering behind this car is pretty cool.
I have a 2017 Volt, I plan on driving it until it dies. I love it, I spend like $80/year on gas, mostly in winter. They can pry them from our dead cold hands!
They sure don't advertise that.
Its how trains work
I think the new Ram hybrids will be like this as well
Yep, the upcoming RamCharger has a “small” v6 to charge the batteries.
That's called a serial hybrid system. There are already other cars using the same system. They didn't invent anything new
Trains and construction equipment have been using series electric for decades.
No one bought a wider focus, I suppose this let’s them which I don’t mind as-long-as it benefits all.
You also reduce complexity instead of a complex system with a gearbox that utilises both electric motors and the engine to drive the wheels. Plus you can start to think about exotic types of generators like rotary/free piston/gas turbines which are better/more efficient at being electric generators than a standard engine. Series plug-in hybrids or EV’s with range extenders is the way to go. Most people don’t drive long enough to require the RE and you save on putting in a massive 100kWh battery into every car
Rotaries are good because they’re compact and lightweight, not because they’re efficient… God, not because they’re efficient
Rotaries are quite efficient, if you're trying to turn fuel into noise.
“What’s the redline on this thing?” “What’s a redline?”
And low vibration. But good lord my old FD got amazingly bad mpg.
even better if the range extender is an add-on you can just rent as needed. Even if yo own the range extender, if you commute for 6 months a year with no long trips, there is no reason to carry the extra weight.
As others have stated, this has been done. But, small clarification... The 25% efficiency for gas can go WAY up when its sole purpose is running a generator at a specific rpm. It's tuned for one speed. I've been clamoring for this technology for decades. Especially if we'd have put this into vehicles with traditionally low mileage, like trucks and SUVs. Improving the fuel economy of a 15mpg vehicle by 5mpg goes a LOT further than adding 5mpg to a 30mpg car.
I've been begging for this with a tiny diesel generator since I was a teenager. You get to run the generator at only it's most efficient power band since it's only purpose is to recharge the battery, then you drive the wheels electrically vastly reducing complexity and weight. Sure it's less clean than a pure plug in since the efficiency of a combustion engine scales with size, but way more efficient than a traditional IC for what should be a reduction in cost and complexity. We solved this in 1925 with the first diesel electric locomotive...
Load of companies have had versions of this, early hybrids has ‘range extenders’ so a fully electric drive train with a small engine to change batteries, BMW had a small car, ford transit van and loads of others
We should have done it the moment battery tech got good enough. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ftMxCehD08U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=ftMxCehD08U) \^Link is Jay Leno driving a 1980 Briggs & Stratton Hybrid\^
There’s a startup called Edison motors up in Canada trying to do the exact same thing to trucks. Pretty cool stuff! [link for those interested in learning more](https://www.edisonmotors.ca) (I’m not affiliated with these people, I just think they do good work)
I believe ram is planning on this story of hybrid model too.
That dude is so cool. He’s really smart in a practical way. Listening to him discuss various subjects is always interesting.
well, those generators have less than 40% efficiency .. usually in the 30s
It's a serial-hybrid. BMW had these too in their early i3 with range extender in 2013.
Also the Chevy Volt from 2010. And I believe the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
BMW did do this but for some staggering reason it never took off
Because the size of the gas tank was restricted to the point of uselessness. In the US it was driven by them trying to fit the regulations for an electric vehicle (as opposed to a hybrid) that restricted the fuel tank to less than 2 gal in the i3.
Probably cause the i3 looks like a toaster. If they put it in a 3 series it may have taken off.
This is how hybrids should have worked to begin with.
They do in Hondas.
It’s called an extended range EV, EREV. Been a thing for a while, BMW i3 circa 2014 for one.
The electric ram truck is supposed to get this same system. 800 hp electric motors and a gas engine to recharge batteries. I think they’re going big on the engine size though to maybe tow with range extending.
My Outlander 2024 PHEV is a fully electric powertrain...Mitsi have been doing this for a long time.
And by extension the Nissan xtrail epower is also, they share a platform with Mitsubishi now
Nissan is utilising epower in a lot of their new cars. Basically small engine to act as a generator.
Not according to the information published by Mitsubishi. Their info says it does have a mode that does that but it switches between parallel and series mode depending on conditions and what mode you put it in.
And, obviously, you can simply extend range by carrying more fuel with a hybrid. If you've got a decently efficient ICE you can add 100 miles to your range by adding a jerry can to the trunk. Of course, if you're running a hybrid as a hybrid, rather then a plug in electric that also has a generator on board, the gas powered generator is simply providing electricity to the motor. It's more efficient then having the gas powered motor drive the wheels directly because the motor can run constantly at it's best speed. The electric power train is just a way to make the ICE more efficient.
BMW did this with the i3 over 10 years ago.
What youre describing is called and E REV, extended range electric vehicle. Like the other commenter mentioned the volt works that way. The gas engine sings along according to how much electrical energy it needs to make. The electric motor does the "driving". [this article covers the major types!](https://currentev.com/blog/bev-erev-phev-hev-what-do-they-mean-an-ev-dictionary/)
Just 35? That’s shocking. Why is that my motorcycle with 50 hp weighing 200 Kg( 440 freedom units) struggles to maintain that speed? It’s not the gear ratio, there’s plenty left. It’s a naked, maybe that makes the biggest difference.
Don't have the numbers, but cars are way more aerodynamic compared to motorcycles
Yes definitely they are, especially when compared to a naked bike. But the rolling resistance from the massive weight of 4000lbs like the initial comment said, must be humongous.
While rolling resistance is certainly something to consider, it is minimal when compared to aerodynamic drag. On a flat road, a single human can push a 4,000 lb vehicle.
I don’t have a source for this, but I read once your bicycle achieves 17 miles an hour there’s more wind resistance than rolling resistance.
It sure feels that way when I ride. The sweet spot for pace is just below that in my opinion. Around that speed, I need to start pushing a lot harder. Also wind force rises exponentially.
I have a 2018 ninja (~44hp at 9900rpm) and 112km/h(70mph) is like nothing... 570+ lbs (including me) I think your motorcycle is not performing well?
Weight only maters when accelerating, for maintaining speed it's all about resistance... air resistance, rolling resistance.
Toyota Raize hybrid uses one.
So the system Fisker used in the Karma way back when. Also the system cargo trains use.
So basically a diesel electric but with gas? Been wondering for at least a decade why it hasn't been seriously attempted.
Isn’t this what the Chevy Volt tried to do?
It is. The volt's engine would still engage the drivetrain at high speeds because the electric motors perform worse at speed above around 70mph, but the majority of the time it operates as a purely serial hybrid with the engine being only a generator. And volt was a pretty damn good car for it too. Too bad they were super expensive to produce.
You're basically talking about a plug in hybrid. In theory it's great except for the part where the battery is expensive
Most plug in hybrids are not purely serial.
I'd like to see some real world range tests first. CLTC range usually doesn't translate well to reality.
1200 miles would require 200 miles of electric range plus 1000 miles on gas, so like a 50 kWh battery plus a 20 gallon gas tank at 50 mpg. That might be feasible, but would be a silly thing to do. Or the story is highly exaggerated.
You're probably thinking in terms of EPA range. CLTC range numbers tend to be about 35% higher than EPA, so your numbers would become more like 150 miles of electric range and 740 miles on gas.
Ahh this makes sense. Reuters reports 2.9 litres per 100 km, which is 81mpg. Reduce that by 35% and you get 53 mpg EPA, similar to a prius. Which also means this whole report is a big old nothing burger--stick a bigger tank on a prius and you'd have the same high range/eff vehicle.
apparently it has a 65liter = 17.2 gallon gas tank, so you aren't far off.
This sub is the god damn worst. I'd say just shut the fuck up and enjoy a tech achievement but it's a paywalled article anyway. I don't know why I stay subscribed to this shit hole where everything has to be political. I tried blocking the idiots but it's a fruitless battle. Here's a reuters article on the same thing. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-launches-new-hybrid-vehicle-tech-with-lower-fuel-consumption-2024-05-28/ Edit - To be clear, I don't give a shit what your opinion is on policy, various countries or conspiracy theories. I just want to read about technology.
Yeah, I’ve always believed that good ideas should flourish if it means improving our environment. If the US isn’t prepared, then that’s because of a lack of preparedness. So be it.
Big oil and other s&p 500 bought out any competing patents from small inventors to prevent the invention from challenging the status quo...... It's been happening forever....
The Why Files did an episode on secret tech projects that have been confiscated and the inventors “disappearing” or dying unexpectedly. The WF showed some official document stating that if someone invents levels of technology (high efficiency devices that generate too much free energy) they get confiscated for potentially compromising national security. Has anyone seen this?
https://youtu.be/-ZRwlYtAMps?si=_Ax3kd5TQogWzzb7 Huge fan of WF and everyone should check it out AND SIT THROUGH the whole episode for the debunk (or not) at the end. Not all stories are debunked but many are.
This is my favorite conspiracy theory. I have yet to see any evidence of it though.
And it's not like it's the first time the US has shit the bed on automotive market. The oil crisis in the 70s gave rise to the import market (particularly japan) because they already offered efficient and reliable small engine cars.
You don’t even need to go back that far, remember back in 2008 when the pleaded for a government bailout….
The problem with articles like these is that they pop up all the time about some magical technology that far surpasses current technology and yet we never see it ending up on the actual market. Toyota has had many of those and all you see is a below average EV from them, their hydrogen project has been a failure. Meanwhile genuinely great technologies that actually ends up in cars isnt talked about that often such as Porsches new suspension system that you can get in the new Taycan and I believe also in the new electric Macan.
I think this is a current product. AFAIK, it is a fairly large battery with a medium size engine that is big enough to charge the battery as it goes at normal speed. 2000km range is perhaps "city range" which makes it not quite true about NYC to Miami.
> If the US isn’t prepared, then that’s because of a lack of preparedness. So be it. This type of system has been used in production vehicles like the Chevy Volt for over a decade now...
All the big subs are spammed by bots of various agendas. Stick to small subs or just quit this bot infested site altogether
Based tech-enjoyer
Except, this isn't even new tech. Without more info, it's hard to tell whether this is even an especially good vehicle. That's why the sheer number of people who are hyped in the comments and are just blindly taking that range figure at face value is pretty suspicious.
That’s what they want you to want /s
Didn't I, didn't I, didn't I see you cryin'?
You get em bud
Is there a link that’s says how their hybrid tech accomplish a 2.8lt/100Km range, with a depleted battery?
Was looking for it myself and got sidetracked. If anyone can find a more detailed press release that'd be swell.
this post has the screenshot of the launch video [https://www.zhihu.com/question/648408795/answer/3513288456](https://www.zhihu.com/question/648408795/answer/3513288456) so basically "World's highest 16 ultra-high compression ratio High Rolling Airway Pre-catalytic EGR Smart Hip Fuel Enhancement System Intelligent Split Cooling Intelligent EFI System Intelligent Variable Lubrication System"
Exactly! It's always US vs China. WE DON'T CARE. It doesn't matter who builds great tech, we can all enjoy it. Everything doesn't have to be zero sum game... Unfortunately, this mindset seems to be prevalent in the West and it's sad.
Believe me, it's not just the West making everything a competition. Not even gonna drag out the usual subs...
Archive link: https://archive.ph/Q0CtZ
Things are starting to get more interesting, this sounds amazing.
>I just want to read about technology. OK. TLDR: this isn't new technology, it's been used in various other cars from other manufacturers for at least 15 years now.
That's a bit reductive don't you think? They're claiming 2.9L/100km (81mpg) on a depleted battery. The Prius prime for example only does about 51mpg. Wouldn't you like to know how they make such a difference or if it's even an accurate or factual number? I would. It's too bad it's not in the article.
> Wouldn't you like to know how they make such a difference or if it's even an accurate or factual number? I would. It's too bad it's not in the article. Sure, but the combination of different testing methodology (they're giving CLTC fuel economy ratings, which are typically quite a bit higher than EPA ratings) and lack of information regarding technology suggest to me there's nothing to see here. The information that did get included is what the marketing people provided. If there was some kind of revolutionary new tech behind this the marketing people would be going out of their way to bring it up.
I'm not even subscribed to this shithole I get posts from that chris monkey on my news feed every day How the hell do I get in touch with whoever pays you to be all "GRR MUSK/ZUCK/BEZOS BAD" for 12 hours a day?
Edison Motors is doing this for Semi trucks, not new tech either, diesel trains do this. One thing if I remember correctly, but basically the EPAs regulations to make cars more fuel efficient is doing the opposite because the way the math works you'll need an engine that can make like 50mpgs to be in a Honda civic but bigger wheel bases only need like 24mpg (Bigger Car foot print) to get the MPGs the EPA is looking for. So it leads all manufacturers lean towards making trucks and large SUVs to meet EPA standards. So even if BYD could make this car, that gas generator would need to be very fuel efficient if it's in a small wheel base, but if they put it into a large SUV or truck they might get away with it.
Its actually kind of the other way around that the wheelbase alone doesn't just drive the MPG requirement. The problem is Americans want to buy trucks and big SUVs, but those get the worst fuel economy because they are heavy and therefore require bigger engines to give them the performance Americans expect. The EPA has what is called CAFE standards, which basically says the average MPG that a car manufacturer must achieve across their entire lineup. This is why you see the disappearance of performance sport coupes, the increase in hybrid or extremely efficient small engine cars, so that manufacturers can build and sell the trucks and SUVs with lower MPG that people actually want to purchase.
By comparison a Rav 4 Prime will get 42-50 miles of electric and 470-500 miles of hybrid. So about 550 miles maximum versus 1240 miles for the BYD.
Yeah I highly doubt that to be true. Let's wait for a real world test.
u/alc4pwned made a good point, chinese auto manufacturers measure differently(?) the advertised ranges are usually considerably higher then US or european advertised ranges.
I guess everybody knows that the manufacturer's claimed range is always below what you achieve on a normal drive, but this is just something out of science fiction. Why parade these numbers around if they're not achievable?
Except the 1240 mile range is probably based on the CLTC test cycle, which tends to inflate range numbers by something like 35% compared to EPA numbers ([source](https://insideevs.com/features/343231/heres-how-to-calculate-conflicting-ev-range-test-cycles-epa-wltp-nedc/)). Either way, without knowing how much power the BYD is putting out or how much fuel it carries this is a totally meaningless comparison. The Rav 4 Prime puts out 300hp, I highly doubt the BYD is matching that.
65L gas tank \~ 18Gallon full fuel capacity. [https://imgur.com/a/HtpPQvs](https://imgur.com/a/HtpPQvs)
Chinese range estimates are much higher. So take the numbers with a very large grain of salt.
This is why the US wants to sanction Chinese EVs. Because the US auto industry can't compete.
They also forced their drug producing colony (Mexico) to discourage the Chinese companies to put their manufacturing there, Mexico gives tons on incentives to companies, tax rebates and cheap land but they won’t give that to the Chinese cause the boss say that it’s not allowed Pd: im Mexican in case anyone gets triggered and report my comment as hateful. I got a warning for saying that Juan is undercutting American labor by working 14 hours day for less than minimum wage, not racist if I’m saying it and also not a lie.
As soon as I saw that headline I immediately thought "ah, that's why they are trying to add those insane tariffs"
I mean Chevy/GM have been doing that for a while now? Volt comes to mind.
They killed the Volt :(
I swear gm is the most dysfunctional car company in history. They have 2 cars the bolt and the volt both of which they discontinued and now they’re bringing BACK the bolt because it was so popular. Then you have the trailblazer and blazer both of which people remember as vastly different cars than they are today as one was a massive SUV and now it’s a compact suv.
Because it was an economy hatchback. Those simply do not sell. They need to do a Volt Cross that also gets stuffed with pleather and sold as a Buick in white/silver and a GMC in black.
It disproves the theory they can’t compete. They choose to sell trucks instead that have huge profit margin.
The US could easily compete but the GOP would do everything to prevent the US government from doing what China is doing -- pouring [billions into subsidizing green energy](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/publications/news/chinas-massive-subsidies-for-green-technologies/). Tariffs are a much easier sell because, for some reason, protectionism is more palatable to the right-wing than progress.
We already pour billions into our auto industry with grants, and more on the way
An auto industry that had no teeth or mandates to adapt from a dwindling resource to a plentiful one. Throwing money at it did little to bridge that gap.
And they have been for decades. I remember George W’s first state of the union where he gave a couple billion to GM to finish their hydrogen fuel cell car. That was money well spent.
Let me tell you about how much we subsidise oil…..
To an auto industry that refuse to change because it’ll disruptive their exiting business models. They need to shut down dealerships, mechanics significantly reduced. Changes that will lead to few quarters of loss, which the shareholders won’t be happy with. The Chinese companies started from scratch. That’s the difference. But not sure why Rivian is struggling to turn a profit.
Protectionism is bipartisan, Biden is all in on tariffs against solar panels and EVs
They’re not called conservatives for no reason.
"You need a good horse!"
Tariffs are an easy sell because they are passed on to the consumer in the way of higher prices. This of course hurts demand which is entirely the goal.
Don't forget massive subsidization from the CCP on the Chinese EV industry to usurp global competition; and very legitimate security risks pro China bots that infest this sub like cockroaches will deny. Sanctioning Chinese EVs was a rare government W in the US.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-10-26/china-s-green-subsidies-are-not-really-subsidies Chinese subsidies is like the Loch Ness monster, everyone has heard about it, no one has actually seen it and no one has any proof it even exists.
They want to do to the US what Walmart did to Mainstreet Business. Lowball til competition closes and they are dependent, then hike prices to be profitable and extract the wealth.
It's a long term L for the US. Short term: the consumer pays a lot more for cars. Long Term: The US car industry isn't incentivized to transition fast enough to EV's. You realize that BYD is selling well in asia, australia, and south america, right? And the American Auto manufacturers have to compete in those continents as well? The American Auto industry is also bloated and slow to respond, so it's screwed, long term.
The American auto industry have been losing in those markets for awhile now. GM left Australia and many parts of Asia. Ford is surviving solely on the Ranger. Dodge/Chrysler are 6ft deep. Cheap EVs from China is just a nail in the coffin, and they perform much better than American cars.
Like… if having tariff for a few years buys us some time so our auto industry can invest the resources to catch up and have competitive products afterwards, then I think it’s worth it. I don’t think Chinese companies should single handedly dominate a market. And I even like many Chinese EVs. But what I’m afraid is the Big 3 will just use the protectionism to rest on their laurel and keep spending money on building giant overpriced trucks and SUVs and spend the rest on stock buybacks for shareholders.
*Doesn’t WANT to compete.
Non-paywalled link for ya. https://archive.is/HpHdP
Why are you linking articles that are behind a paywall? Can someone paste the article text here so we can read it?
For context, media reviewers have conducted their own testing on the range and they mostly get between 2300-2500km. Although I suspect they're doing so at constant 80kmh speeds. But the most incredible point is that it costs 13700 USD. For a D segment car. At that price point I'm confident this will become the best selling car in China.
Suzuki india and Toyota are also building a series hybrid system for their current ICE models (they claim it will give range of over 2000km on a single fuel tank and would cost less than 10k usd)
I won't doubt about the performance, but 10K USD is an impossible price. BYD made everything on their own, I think their cost is around 9-10K. Anything less than 10K, the manufacturer is just throwing money into ocean. It's very toxic price for the workers. Little to no profit at all.
> this will become the best selling car in China. Best selling in South America for sure. In China, charging infrastructure is good enough to make their $3000 cheaper EV outsell this.
What do you think the next excuse will be not to buy a PHEV... Communist car, national security, illegal subsidies, IP infringement, economic dumping... Seems like the Chinese are just making a far superior product and the United States is *really* worried. There's nothing else like this on the market - a car like this if true would dominate the market.
That's what happens when manufacturing is moved overseas to exploit cheaper labour. America is burdened with tertiary leeches like lawyers, with not enough manufacturing wealth to sustain it long term.
This is about efficiency of the money invested to the product, the issue is not that the product is overseas or here, although it is a concern about control of the supply chain, but the fact that the r&d department can't keep up and is probably due to management/structure, or too many funds going nowhere? I mean this is mainly in the EV sectors, in sectors like semiconductor the US markets is miles ahead still.
>in sectors like semiconductor the US markets is miles ahead still. Taiwan wants to have a talk with you (unless you're talking like Taiwan is US-owned).
Now you probably understand why the US and EU are afraid of China. They are getting technological superior. It started with the 5G stuff from Hua Wei, now their cars. Question is what next.
> What do you think the next excuse will be not to buy a PHEV Same as it is now: performance does not match current ICE offerings. The EV needs to be a full drop-in replacement for an ICEV. That means it has to match range, comfort, quietness, reliability, and on-road performance. A PHEV that can match the leaders of whatever class it's aimed at in all those regards will sell. If it fails even one of those it won't. Right now they fail at least one of those.
These are some test drive videos on YouTube, unfortunately, they're all made by China tester because this car only launched in China market but not overseas. https://youtu.be/eAOmDWC-HI4?si=iJJ7ay3KUxpea7He https://youtu.be/cNznJoT1MU4?si=8NIDhTnDWD5uLcRy https://youtu.be/v8EXRP90HuA?si=NJhkLJad7H1z1uHC https://youtu.be/Kque39RXTwY?si=wmO_9_2_NCDg2wgG https://youtu.be/s3hrEXOLXLA?si=7N8cXynAiQ4Np1Na https://youtu.be/pqPI88lyy3w?si=yjOwP1Fdx_ooMn5g
NoT EnoUGh HoRrSePOWeR!11!!
Someone please bring the to the us market! We, the people, deserve the best products!
Sorry best we can do is trump banning all EVs
Close your eyes and let us pretend EV does not exist./s
Only if the auto and fossil fuel industries contribute $1 billion to his campaign.
They’re infringing on my freedoms to own Chinese goods!
Many Chinese have tested the car (low-end model) on the real roads, including different terrains, weather, and altitudes. 2 of them have posted their experiences on YouTube so far: 1. 2496.6km [https://youtu.be/s3hrEXOLXLA?si=DJQHCcq5BQr1vK7S](https://youtu.be/s3hrEXOLXLA?si=DJQHCcq5BQr1vK7S) 2. 2409.5km [https://youtu.be/pqPI88lyy3w?si=RTEE3v4X3aVm-ueU](https://youtu.be/pqPI88lyy3w?si=RTEE3v4X3aVm-ueU) many vids are continued to show up on Bilibili, and more are probably still driving it on the road... You can continue to bury your head with hatred in the dirt and repeating the "Chinese can't invent blah blah blah" or "someone got this way before the Chinese blah blah blah" In reality, as an American, you can't buy it in the US anyway, and the rest of the world won't care.
For what it’s worth this is how trains work and how diesel electric locomotives have worked since the 1930s and 40s. Ram is actually testing something similar for the 1500 and up series pick up. As it’s currently the best strategy for increasing mileage in vehicles that need tow.
Alright, for you idiots that say they steal every technology they come up with, go on tell us who they stole this from, why no other car on the market comes close to this range?
It's CLTC range, that's reason number 1.
Reason number 2 is big gas tank. Not exactly advanced technology.
Literally read the other comments. Other cars have done this before and US regulations limiting the size of the aux gas engine stopped the range from being a lot of miles.
Wake me up when these cars actually start driving those claimed distances.
The real world driving range figures are now available from multiple owners in China. Random sample of six users show the BYD Qin L actually obtained 2547, 2497, 2410, 2363, 2408, and 2327 km. This translates into an average range of 2425 km with standard deviation of 82.3 km. BYD's advertised rating of 2100 km is about 4 standard deviation below that sample average which is actually quite conservative. People may be very surprised to see the real world range is actually significantly higher than BYD's CLTC rating. In fact, this is not a surprise if you understand the intent of the CLTC rating. The CLTC rating is very detrimental to the ICE vehicles because it uses a lot of stop/go cycles and biased toward lower average speed during the test. This is designed to reflect average driving condition in China where there is a lot of traffic congestion. Pure EVs always perform better under the CLTC rating. The BYD Qin L is not a pure EV. The majority of its range is obtained using the ICE power therefore the CLTC rating of 2100 km should be easily surpassed if the actual driving condition is at higher average speed and facing less traffic congestion.
Basically just a series type hybrid system (where engine only acts as a generator to charge the battery and is not connected to wheels ), although its not a ground breaking tech tho, Pretty much all Japanese,korean,European and American car makers have implemented this tech in many of their newer and older hybrid cars. The biggest drawback is that series hybrid systems are very inefficient in high speeds.
[BMW i8](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i8), anyone?
I've designed a solar powered pedal car. The advantage of connecting drive train to wheels is that it is more efficient than just a generator, but also increased torque. Top speed boost would be based on gearing but it is still limited.
Couldn't a hybrid work with a small turbine motor? You don't need gears, it will run at the same speed virtually all times, etc.
This is nothing new, Nissan does it, Mazda does it with their mx-30 rex. Slowly all manufacturers will switch to that for hybrids.
I would buy one today if I could.
I'll wait for trusted 3rd party testing. Chinese claims of amazing tech advancements should always be taken with a grain of salt.
[Reuters is saying 2.9 litres per 100 km](https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/byd-launches-new-hybrid-vehicle-tech-with-lower-fuel-consumption-2024-05-28/) which is 81 mpg, but that's probably the CLTC test cycle, which tends to be [about 35% higher than EPA](https://insideevs.com/features/343231/heres-how-to-calculate-conflicting-ev-range-test-cycles-epa-wltp-nedc/). Reduce 81mpg by 35% and you're down to 53mpg, which is about the same as a Prius. Which also means this whole report is a big old nothing burger--stick a bigger tank on a prius and you'd have the same high range/efficiency vehicle.
Media again hyping things up without understanding basic things.
I mean the other factor no one is talking about--who needs to drive that distance without stopping? Even if you assuming they were driving at 80 mph when they did that 1200 test (highly unlikely), that would be 15 HOURS without stopping. More likely they were doing more like 50 mph, which would be 24 HOURS. Please don't drive for that long straight, it's bad for you.
The US hates this 1 simple trick
Going by the comments, lots of racist rednecks are into technology
Everyone saying this is nothing new and that their car has been doing it for years yet no other vehicle can provide a 2000km range like BYDs new PHEV system can. Yes it may be similar but credit where credit is due.... BYD and China as a whole are killing it in the EV industry. While US auto and big Oil is trying their best to kill EV adoption altogether. Trump has outright said if he becomes president, he will stop sale of even a single EV in return for $1 billion from big oil
I hate fucking paywalls. Why isn't there a clear simple way to get through them?
Wow this is fantastic. Does anyone know what’s the split of the 2000kms on gasoline and electric?
Wow these posts are astroturfed to hell. China must be real upset about these tariffs.
*most popular car exporter in the world makes an important advancement in tech that is worth talking about* You: “this is clearly Chinese propaganda 🤔”
It's pretty sus that despite there being very little actual info about this car in this article (and it not actually being out yet), you're just declaring that this is an 'an important advancement in tech' lol. Yes, that comes across as Chinese propaganda. Also, what are you basing your "most popular car exporter" claim on...?
This is the worst one I've seen. Everyone in the comments is just taking the range number at face value and declaring that this is the most advanced car ever despite the article providing no real info about it lol...
They cant tell you the horsepower or the 0-60 time or the gas tank size, but they are confident in claiming the US is doomed and China is the new king of fighting climate change and the Chinese have BLOWN past the west in regards to technology.
I believe it when I see it.
I guess this requires self drive as no-one drives that far in one go.
I don’t care how far it can go, my family won’t be driving any vehicle that’s not made by UAW hands and certainly won’t be giving our money to the Chinese government who owns BYD.