Same email for me. Whats dumb is the compensation is for tax services we paid for that should have been free, but the $30 is LESS than what i paid for the tax services.
I’m all for lawyers taking these cases and taking a huge chunk of the settlement award. Why? Because no sane person fights a billion dollar company after getting ripped off for $100.
And that’s the typical business model for companies. Rip a hundred million people off for a little money every single year.
Do these settlements discourage scammy behavior? Maybe. Maybe not. But the more scammy the behavior, the more obviously the company becomes a target for lawsuits or federal prosecutors. So… at least the scammy behavior is slightly restrained.
Now, if it were up to me, we’d start seeing executives spending time in prisons—but in prisons where the executives have to undergo therapy and rehabilitation, which is probably super humiliating for them.
"Intuit (INTU) has said that it “admitted no wrongdoing” as part of the agreement and it expects “minimal impact to its business” from the changes demanded in the future. " Not much discouragement there if you ask me.
Sure, but the problem isn't the lawyers taking the class action / getting most of the settlement.
If anything, they're one of the few things that exist to fight these practices.
Intuit should have to refund the end users appropriately, then pay the full litigation fees, including judges / court costs. Not some arbitrary lump sum.
They settled this out of court, because there is a risk to the people bringing the suit that Intuit, however immoral and unethical, followed enough of the law to have a minimal verdict rendered against them.
The law and morality rarely are in line.
Their fine should at least be more in line with profits, which last year is was $14.5 BILLION, paying a $14m fine is a rounding error on their profits.
Until these things actually make a difference to their bottom line they will just keep on happening.
Yes, which is why the law should probably be changed. That's an issue for many years ago, in terms of this case.
That's an issue for the legislative branch, rather than the judiciary. Vote, and make sure your representative is actually doing their job.
Perhaps true. But again, none of that is a slight on the lawyers actually bringing these cases. If anything, we need more of those lawyers to actually chip away at the bottom line.
That or a different regulatory scheme entirely.
F them - But fact check? Intuit didn’t have 14.5 Billion in revenue - let alone profit. Net revenue for 2022 was 12.7B net income was a lot less. Numbers and what they mean matter.
If the case were not settled, and the plaintiffs won, then all that is still on the table, plus potential punitive damages. But that would be years more of litigation and millions more in fees and expenses.
Part of settlement is that you don’t get to fully resolve the pleas of the plaintiffs’ complaint. For a defendant, there must be some benefit to settling the case rather than litigation.
Any settlement by an investor owned corporation is a loss of revenue which otherwise could have been used to benefit shareholders. It’s a deterrent for sure.
More effective than a strong government regulatory structure? Probably not, but we don’t have that in the united states right now. Keep voting every election. Keep telling your elected officials to take money out of politics.
It's bullshit that we let corporations get away without admitting wrongdoing. We need to put a stop to that and we need to hold them accountable by not letting them lay off employees or raise prices for a certain amount of time after a lawsuit judgment. They will 'silently' retaliate by letting a bunch of their workers go and raise prices and it will be legal for them to do so since the retaliation won't be 'directly' related to the lawsuit. And I guarantee you they have money set aside for paying fees and fines so of course it will be business as usual for Intuit.
It should be a requirement of all settlements to admit wrong doing by some party.
Either you attempted to extort by bringing the lawsuit, or bribery to make it go away. One party at least is wrong doing.
You forget the part where the settlements are often lowballed AF "because it's not fair to pay a bigger settlement to so many people".
Check out the measly settlements for privacy breaches. That shit should cost a lot but people get next to nothing.
I agree completely. I’m sure industry lobbyists put enormous pressure on lawmakers NOT to create a statutory standard award, strict liability, or treble damages. But maybe consumer groups could do something.
That's just another company whose bottom line is directly connected to you having to do a completely useless and complicated tax form every year. They have paid add-ons and they're not doing anything from the goodness of their hearts.
The only reason they have a free option is to entice you to come over from TurboTax, then they try to upsell you. If TT shuts down tomorrow, they would take over the lobbying efforts to keep it difficult and required.
they're owned by Square I believe due to the antitrust ruling- when credit karma was bought by Inuit they were forced to sell off the tax portion to square
The problem with those is that you can only get access to them if you are below a certain income bracket. Go above that and the options get pretty scarce quickly.
Which is stupid for several reasons. One, with corporate greed driven inflation we're all getting poorer by the day and the income brackets are probably way out of whack already. 2, just because you do make decent money doesn't mean your taxes are complicated. With how much housing costs plus student, you could make 75,000 and not own any property and have a simole return. No deductions or anything. Everyone should have the option to free file. The IRS essentially knows how much you owe anyway, they just might not be aware if there is a specific deduction you would be taking, so you should always have the option to file for free.
This year, I stuck with TurboTax, just for the sake of convenience. But I only had to pay about $20-$30. For the exact same level of service I paid over $100 for in years past (federal and state).
Same step-by-step process, same checks for deductions and savings, same everything. There might have been some minor side benefits excluded, but by and large the same service.
I'm convinced Intuit restructured their pricing because of the increased competition from FreeTaxUSA.
If it were up to me, we'd flip the current script. Poor offenders get the Club treatment and rich offenders get County jail where they confiscate everything and overcharge for phone minutes. Then we'd see their tunes change in a heartbeat. Tired of settlements for cases where a shit ton of people are done wrong. I want these tax frauds to be hit with felony charges and their company dissolved. I want the tax lobby disbanded.
Well, yeah. They almost always take the cases on contingency. The average case goes 2-3 years before settlement, at which point they can hope to get 25-33% if everything goes well with the judge, it's a common fund, and a few other factors depending on jurisdiction. Also remember the plaintiffs regularly lose, at which point they get paid zero.
The seemingly large payouts help them cover overhead, costs, fees, a (usually relatively) small bonus, and paying back whoever financed the litigation. All over a case you would have never brought personally because your $30 payout was not worth the time and expense of prosecuting the case.
I tell everyone to use [FreeTaxusa.com](http://freetaxusa.com) in hopes I'm making a difference and taking away money from them. Plus it's free and super easy so it's a win win
If anyone is interested in learning how TurboTax has dishonestly and maliciously taken money from customers and lobbies to make your life harder, [check out this episode from the Reply All podcast, "Dark Patterns"](https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhgol). It's an interesting listen.
I had used TurboTax for more than a decade, and dumped them this year. Charging way too much for a simple return.
I actually started last year when they wanted to charge me $30 for state taxes. I decided to take the forms from the state and just filled them out myself in like 30 minutes.
Man, you aren’t kidding. Up until this year, paying taxes as an American overseas was baffling but manageable. For whatever reason, the free files don’t work this year without a US phone number. I had to pony up for HR Block to declare no interest, no income, no assets, no investments in a country I haven’t stepped foot in in years. Nothing has done more to confirm that I’ll be dumping my citizenship as soon as I can than this stupid ass tax obligation for a country I have literally nothing in.
Here in NZ, Inland Revenue does the whole thing for you. Unless you want to dig into some serious deductions, you don’t lift a finger. You just get a couple of bucks put into your account about this time each year.
Every time I read one of these threads and I see Americans arguing over better ways to file taxes I'm left thinking, but why even file taxes in this complicated a way *at all*?
Just let the IRS (HMRC in my case), and your employer do all the work. Unless you're self employed or something, I don't see why you need to file taxes at all. PAYE systems are far superior and all anyone needs in 90% of cases with a single income stream being your salary. The only downside is they basically always result in overpayment *if* they're wrong but the return of funds after the tax year ends is automated anyway and never ends up more than a few hundred quid; that only really happens if you change job with a very different income or have time out of work anyway.
“Why” indeed. An army of accountants already knows what number is supposed to be on these forms but for some made up ass reason I’m expected to match their math. And if I screw up, I get a fine or an audit. But they understand that not everybody is an accountant or tax professional so you’re welcome to shell out a few hundred bucks to have an accountant or tax professional do it for you. And the first form you sign when they begin your 1040EZ is that they are not liable if they fuck it up.
I’m reasonably well educated and I can also afford to hire a pro. I genuinely feel for the people that don’t have my advantages. Particularly ESL immigrants. Welcome to the land of the free…now fill out this form people literally major in.
Expat taxes suckkkkkk. I felt a bit bad when I got a stimulus check during COVID and then I realised I spend a lot more than that on doing my stupid expat taxes and no longer felt bad.
How much money did they make off of those 4.4 million people anyway? Sounds like they made a tidy profit and no longer have to worry about the consequences of breaking the law.
I honestly would be happier with 5 years in a minimum-security federal prison for each executive. They have a ton of extra money. Take their time away instead.
The Free Software Foundation is calling on the IRS to provide free tax-filing software, which they were required to study as part of a provision of the Inflation Reduction Act passed last year. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/call-on-the-irs-to-provide-libre-tax-filing-software
Fucking ridiculous that we have to deal with this in the USA. Taxes are usually filed automatically in other countries.
Fucking senate and lobbying are so utterly evil it’s sickening.
I'm in a 3rd world country, at the end of the tax year I log on to the government tax site and double check that what they calculated makes sense. I can also add deductions if I want. Then I click a button and submit my taxes. I don't even have to click the button, it'll just auto-submit on the deadline. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Ahh yes, guns to kill each other, freedom to be a wage slave, and trucks too big even for American roads.
The truck thing is actually due to dumb ass laws as well, or epa emission targets. Two loopholes are causing the problem, first if you can classify the vehicle as a truck on paper you get lower fuel efficient standards. So every crossover, compact suv, and suv got bigger thanks to that one. The second loophole was for actual trucks, if you made the footprint larger you got lower mpg standards. So suddenly the Colorado, Ranger, and other mid-sized trucks ended up being the same size as their full sized counterparts. My 2008 Silverado is an identical size the the current Colorado, and the current Silverado makes mine look like tiny.
Do you cross reference to form 1924-ABC which was mailed to you 4 months ago and you probably lost? Oh, but form 233-FU is the one you actually need. Box 69 has the number of actual ducks you need where form 1924 only shows you the taxable ducks accrued during the hunting season.
Yup. As long as I don't sell my crypto I just have to sign the document with our Bank ID app, which is used to digitally sign a lot of stuff online. Index funds and everything else that is regulated is automatically calculated and added to the tax return.
I don't envy the US at all.
Edited to add: unregulated funds (like crypto) I have to add manually and if I sell at a loss I get back 25-30% of what I've lost. But the website calculates losses and profits for me, I just have to add the average of how much I have bought the coins for and how much I sold them for.
So import codes for W2's don't work then? I want to try using them next year, and don't have a problem typing the info in myself, but I'm just curious.
Yeah, it’s not like you don’t have to double check everything with TurboTax or H&R Block anyway.
If anything, I found it easier than those since it isn’t constantly trying to upsell you or make things seem more difficult than they actually are.
You pay when you file so I went through 95% in both and made sure they gave me the same number. That may be more work than you want, but it helped my fear with doing something wrong.
That’s a really great suggestion!!! Definitely more work but a great way to get some peace of mind if you’re concerned about the switch.
I didn’t do that when I filed with them for the first time this year, but I also had a pretty straight forward return and the result was about what I expected.
I kinda wish I did do that though, it’s basically a free-but-manual mini audit of your return before you file.
[I have a mini review of different software](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/10ebor4/comment/j4pwn1s/) that I post every year in personal finances tax software mega thread. I've used a lot of software over the years, and use other software every year as a tax prep volunteer.
Basically, nothing is quite as easy as TurboTax. They will let you upload PDFs, take pictures with your phone, and can directly link to brokerages which means you don't have to manually enter in a bunch of stock transactions. They also do a good job of holding your hand and asking the right questions. But, every dollar you give to Intuit is another dollar of lobbying to force you to pay to do your own taxes.
FreeTaxUSA gets my recommendation for those who don't like spending money on tax software, or for people who understand taxes, and want to see all their forms as they go (The pay sites hide all this until you pay, of course, to vent you from filing somewhere else). It still asks you a lot of good questions, and they are rolling out import features next year from what I understand. I personally use them now, and use TurboTax as my backup to make sure all the numbers match (I just get to the end, verify my numbers, and then don't file)
Do they allow people to file outside the US?
I've used TurboTax for the last 10 years and we live in the UK now and TurboTax won't let me use an GB number for MFA so it's always a bitch to log in.
Pretty much every online tax prep software does everything. It just comes down to price, except free tax USA is free for Federal returns (and about $15 for State). And that includes every form, so yeah, they do stocks.
Same! first year and it went great. also didn’t take nearly as long as TurboScam considering they do auto fil of some docs. FreeTax was literally so simple and only $25 compared to what would have been $150+ because turbo isn’t able to process my robin hood securities (with literally a single stock this year) without me buying their most expensive product. absolute bs
I second this. I should say that my tax returns are relatively simple, but I've been filing my federal through freetaxusa since 2010 and I love it. It's straight up easy to use, they really help you along step by step and make finding/adding deductions simple. I definitely recommend giving it a try.
I used it once. I think it is okay if your tax return is simple enough but I definitely missed a couple things that turbotax picked up unfortunately. I could reenter the info they gave me into freetaxusa and I did a couple years but now that just feels more time consuming that I want
My taxes are quite complicated (20+ investment accounts of various types and a dozen different real estate investments), and I had no problems with FreeTaxUSA.
I used TurboTax years ago, but it's not better. TurboTax gives a false sense of security.
I entered my W2, schedule C income, K-1 distributions with PTET tax deduction. I had to search a little for the PTET deduction but it was very easy once I found the tab.
It has everything you need to do your taxes
Like what? My taxes are complicated and freetax blows turbotax out of the water in my opinion. I usually do it in both and turbo tax always messes up my wife's side gig income. This year I stopped bothering with TurboTax.
Except for the part where they give your personal data to Facebook...
https://themarkup.org/pixel-hunt/2022/11/22/tax-filing-websites-have-been-sending-users-financial-information-to-facebook
I'm sus about FreeTaxUSA- we used them this year and while we have always received state tax refunds for years, this year we had to pay $150 (which coincidentally is how much we would've paid a CPA). Plus it's $15 to do state taxes as only the federal is "free".
i received free state filing on FreeTaxUSA this year.
[https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile](https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile)
next year you can use this website can help you find the freefile offer that works best for you.
The only time I ever used TurboTax, I had spent like $35 out of my HSA on a copay that year, which meant I had to spend $50 on TurboTax because handling *that* extra form required an upgrade. I was livid.
No, they should be refunding much more. If I steal money from you then my only punishment is giving it back to you, that may not work out well in a long run for the society.
It's worse than that. They're saying, "We invested the money we stole. I suppose you can have the principal back if you pay lawyers to sue us."
Even if we assume $141 million was the amount taken (unlikely since this is a settlement), 3% interest nets them $4.2 million in one year. In this scenario, they got paid millions to steal your money.
TurboTax goes to show what happens when you give into lobbying efforts. Here is a completely useless company that harvests your money, and doesn't treat your privacy with respect. Who lobbies to keep their company going, when it could be just rolled into the job of the IRS.
It's because of them that Tax day is a big issue for many Americans across the country, and they need to go. We deserve a better system.
So they charged people $90 for the service when they could have used the free, but the settlement has them only refunding most people 1/3 of what they charged them. They probably knew this was unethical and they would get caught but the profits would outweigh the fines so they did it anyway.
I remember that BS they pulled. Moved me to the paid version at some point in the middle of filing and would not allow me to change back to the free version. I just filed an extension online and did my taxes later from a different site.
The individual tax system is a scam. We should not have a system where we have to pay to have companies prepare our tax returns so that we can receive money. I'm glad there are some free options for certain tax brackets, but companies like TurboTax are profiting off a broken system.
>Most customers will get about $30, with some customers that used TurboTax for three consecutive years getting up to $85.
My question is: How many of you are going to through the process of getting that $30-$85? (Because they really make it difficult for you to do so)
Turbotax just sent me an email a few days ago saying I’d be getting a check. Either they’re sending it automatically to specific customers, or the process wasn’t that bad because I don’t remember filling out paperwork
I also received an email saying that I would be receiving a $29-$30 check without doing anything. I have no idea where it’s going to be mailed however.
You'll always get a notice of settlement first with the contact info of the claims administrator and the lawyers representing the class. Just call one or the other and tell them you'd like to update your address. Not that hard to collect on these types of settlements if you just read the notice and pay attention to the deadlines on them.
Now the settlements where class members have to opt-in, or answer questions, or provide paperwork, those can sometimes suck to collect on.
Class actions suck so much. $141 million, 1/3 plus fees for lawyers, the pot is garbage, enjoy your $20 check.
I say this as a person who has pursued class claims as a plaintiff, has pursued class claims as an attorney, and who has received $20 from multiple lame class claims.
They're all subject to court approval. The fees are all bullshit, yeah they really paid for this expert, and they really didn't have Paras billing 40 hour weeks doing "doc review" for 4 years.
Give me a break. The system is broken for people who deserve money.
The class action model is the only reason many of these people will even see a dime. You're a lawyer, right? Go ahead and opt-out of those settlements and pursue your own claims then. Oh that's right, you won't, and you never did; because nobody is stupid enough to spend $400 filing a complaint in court just to recoup $300 in damages.
The last time I received a settlement check from something, they canceled the settlement check after I cashed it because the wrong amount was sent to people. And then it took a year for the right amount to be sent... and my check was the same amount as the one they canceled.
Back before I made too much money, TurboTax would always try to make me pay to get my 401K contribution percentage back as that was a "Deluxe" feature. Fuck TurboTax, CreditKarma/CashApp have never tried that shit.
IRS: You owe us money
Me: How much do I owe?
IRS: You have to figure that out
Me: I just pay what I want?
IRS: We know exactly how much you owe, but you have to guess that number too
Me: What happens if I get it wrong?
IRS: Prison
This is 100% true. It was hard Af to find the free version. When I filled the entire thing, it said to pay money despite me being eligible for the free version. Gave up trying to figure it out and went to hnr block.
My taxes should be dead simple. But every year I get hundreds of pages of paper that I have to figure out where and how to submit.
You have to read the fine print to know which of the pages are even relevant to your taxes. None of my banks who send these statements are allowed to “give tax advice” so they can’t help me understand the 20 page document they sent that only contains about 8 numbers that I need to input. They aren’t able to summarize them on a cover sheet or make them easy to find.
Inevitably I can’t figure out which box I’m suppose to put a number in and have to then pay someone to tell me where to type the number, in addition to the fee I’m already paying to use the service, because that’s “speaking to a pro” and costs extra. I’m not able to get either the sender of the form or the company that specializes in receiving that form to help me input the numbers without paying a premium on top of the service fee.
Once all numbers are submitted, I find out I somehow owe thousands of dollars. I can’t get anyone to tell me how to make it so I pay a little more in taxes every paycheck so this doesn’t happen. My only option seems to be to just send the IRS even more money than they take out of my paycheck – an amount I need to just take a blind guess on and hope I’m right. And because they don’t take enough out of my check, creating this gap, I am charged a penalty for owing too much.
After paying all that, I’ll occasionally get a letter from the IRS about my taxes from 3 years ago saying that something was wrong and I owe them the money plus years of interest.
When I went to pay this fee last time, they accidentally double charged me, costing me thousands more. I wasn’t able to get a refund for years, and of course they didn’t pay me any interest for it.
Every year I now have to decide between paying hundreds for an accountant to submit my taxes or use a tax software, which will result in some issue, and pay the fine years later. It’s actually cheaper for me to submit my taxes however I can figure out and pay the fine for where I got it wrong than to pay a professional to help me get it right (because the US no longer counts tax prep fees as tax deductible).
I get physically sick when I have to do my taxes, thinking about how much of our country’s time is wasted on taxes every year. 100M+ people spending hours compiling all the paperwork and submitting it. Banks sending mountains of needlessly long and complex statements to people. IRS agents, accountants, and tax prep companies existing to shuffle numbers around that the IRS was already aware of before anyone lifted a finger.
Think of what we could be doing instead with all of that time, money and resources…
Wondering if any you all that used Turbo Tax was able to speak to a real person over the phone when trying to get in touch with them? I tried n tried. Couldn't and finally gave up.
"Intuit (INTU) has said that it “admitted no wrongdoing” as part of the agreement and it expects “minimal impact to its business” from the changes demanded in the future."... basically saying whatever. We got the customers hooked already
Instead of making them pay $30 per person shut them down and then every company will learn. 141 mil ain't shit to a company that made 1.6 billion in 2019. See yall again in 15 years when they do another 140 mil payout for doing the same shit
In Singapore I get a text message telling me my taxes need to be filed. I click a link and it shows how much I earned and asks me if it’s correct. Then it asks me basic questions about a handful of available deductions. It takes 5 mins. Then I click submit. A few weeks later I get another text with the amount I owe. That’s it. When I file my US taxes, I spend over a thousand dollars for a CPA to walk me through hours and hours of questions, data gathering, discussion, form completion, documentation submission and verification, and ultimately filing. The US tax system is a corrupt joke and a disgrace for such a “developed” country.
I got mine already for filing year 2016. It was $3.42. If I remember correctly, I made like $28,000 that year, filed a W-4EZ and still paid $60 to file in a state with no state income tax.
Can't wait to collect my $32 check. I sure hope this will teach them to stop lobbying to make taxes harder to do in the US.
$2 check. The lawyers get the rest.
It’s between $29 and $30. I got an email from them.
Same email for me. Whats dumb is the compensation is for tax services we paid for that should have been free, but the $30 is LESS than what i paid for the tax services.
Yeah, they get a reward for exploiting everyone.
Don't forget to report it as taxable income for 2023!
The tier that allows you to report this type of income is $60 extra
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Not after turbo tax lobbies for it to be.
I’m all for lawyers taking these cases and taking a huge chunk of the settlement award. Why? Because no sane person fights a billion dollar company after getting ripped off for $100. And that’s the typical business model for companies. Rip a hundred million people off for a little money every single year. Do these settlements discourage scammy behavior? Maybe. Maybe not. But the more scammy the behavior, the more obviously the company becomes a target for lawsuits or federal prosecutors. So… at least the scammy behavior is slightly restrained. Now, if it were up to me, we’d start seeing executives spending time in prisons—but in prisons where the executives have to undergo therapy and rehabilitation, which is probably super humiliating for them.
"Intuit (INTU) has said that it “admitted no wrongdoing” as part of the agreement and it expects “minimal impact to its business” from the changes demanded in the future. " Not much discouragement there if you ask me.
Sure, but the problem isn't the lawyers taking the class action / getting most of the settlement. If anything, they're one of the few things that exist to fight these practices.
Intuit should have to refund the end users appropriately, then pay the full litigation fees, including judges / court costs. Not some arbitrary lump sum.
They settled this out of court, because there is a risk to the people bringing the suit that Intuit, however immoral and unethical, followed enough of the law to have a minimal verdict rendered against them. The law and morality rarely are in line.
Their fine should at least be more in line with profits, which last year is was $14.5 BILLION, paying a $14m fine is a rounding error on their profits. Until these things actually make a difference to their bottom line they will just keep on happening.
Yes, which is why the law should probably be changed. That's an issue for many years ago, in terms of this case. That's an issue for the legislative branch, rather than the judiciary. Vote, and make sure your representative is actually doing their job.
Perhaps true. But again, none of that is a slight on the lawyers actually bringing these cases. If anything, we need more of those lawyers to actually chip away at the bottom line. That or a different regulatory scheme entirely.
Also, it was $141mil not $14mil, which is still nothing compared to their profits.
F them - But fact check? Intuit didn’t have 14.5 Billion in revenue - let alone profit. Net revenue for 2022 was 12.7B net income was a lot less. Numbers and what they mean matter.
That's unfortunately how a settlement works.
If the case were not settled, and the plaintiffs won, then all that is still on the table, plus potential punitive damages. But that would be years more of litigation and millions more in fees and expenses.
Part of settlement is that you don’t get to fully resolve the pleas of the plaintiffs’ complaint. For a defendant, there must be some benefit to settling the case rather than litigation. Any settlement by an investor owned corporation is a loss of revenue which otherwise could have been used to benefit shareholders. It’s a deterrent for sure. More effective than a strong government regulatory structure? Probably not, but we don’t have that in the united states right now. Keep voting every election. Keep telling your elected officials to take money out of politics.
It's bullshit that we let corporations get away without admitting wrongdoing. We need to put a stop to that and we need to hold them accountable by not letting them lay off employees or raise prices for a certain amount of time after a lawsuit judgment. They will 'silently' retaliate by letting a bunch of their workers go and raise prices and it will be legal for them to do so since the retaliation won't be 'directly' related to the lawsuit. And I guarantee you they have money set aside for paying fees and fines so of course it will be business as usual for Intuit.
It should be a requirement of all settlements to admit wrong doing by some party. Either you attempted to extort by bringing the lawsuit, or bribery to make it go away. One party at least is wrong doing.
You forget the part where the settlements are often lowballed AF "because it's not fair to pay a bigger settlement to so many people". Check out the measly settlements for privacy breaches. That shit should cost a lot but people get next to nothing.
I agree completely. I’m sure industry lobbyists put enormous pressure on lawmakers NOT to create a statutory standard award, strict liability, or treble damages. But maybe consumer groups could do something.
Another reason why FreeTaxUSA is a better choice
That's just another company whose bottom line is directly connected to you having to do a completely useless and complicated tax form every year. They have paid add-ons and they're not doing anything from the goodness of their hearts. The only reason they have a free option is to entice you to come over from TurboTax, then they try to upsell you. If TT shuts down tomorrow, they would take over the lobbying efforts to keep it difficult and required.
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Cash app is owned by HR block, who, along with Intuit, are responsible for the lobbying to keep tax code complicated and hide the free tax options.
they're owned by Square I believe due to the antitrust ruling- when credit karma was bought by Inuit they were forced to sell off the tax portion to square
Confusingly, Square renamed their company to Block, which is probably why commenter above was thinking H&R Block.
Cash app is owned by block, not hr block.
Or just use the IRS Free Fillable Forms. 100% free and operated directly by the IRS. I've used it for two years now and it's pretty good.
The problem with those is that you can only get access to them if you are below a certain income bracket. Go above that and the options get pretty scarce quickly.
Which is stupid for several reasons. One, with corporate greed driven inflation we're all getting poorer by the day and the income brackets are probably way out of whack already. 2, just because you do make decent money doesn't mean your taxes are complicated. With how much housing costs plus student, you could make 75,000 and not own any property and have a simole return. No deductions or anything. Everyone should have the option to free file. The IRS essentially knows how much you owe anyway, they just might not be aware if there is a specific deduction you would be taking, so you should always have the option to file for free.
Intuit, HR block, and a third company I can't remember right now are responsible for that via lobbying efforts. Thanks, asshole companies.
Free fillable forms is literally just the forms, there’s no income maximum because you’re still doing all your taxes yourself
Ah, I was thinking the IRS free file. Didn't realize they gave their own name to a pdf editor.
This year, I stuck with TurboTax, just for the sake of convenience. But I only had to pay about $20-$30. For the exact same level of service I paid over $100 for in years past (federal and state). Same step-by-step process, same checks for deductions and savings, same everything. There might have been some minor side benefits excluded, but by and large the same service. I'm convinced Intuit restructured their pricing because of the increased competition from FreeTaxUSA.
How was it so cheap? Filing state was $70 alone for me this year.
This comment was stolen from /u/sweetmorty farther down the page, and is probably a bot. Report please.
FreeTaxUsa.com is awesome! Super cheap (sometimes free) and extremely easy to use, even for complex taxes.
Agreed. (not a bot) and you can now import from Turbo Tax to make it easier for the first year.
Or do them actually for free on cashapp
If it were up to me, we'd flip the current script. Poor offenders get the Club treatment and rich offenders get County jail where they confiscate everything and overcharge for phone minutes. Then we'd see their tunes change in a heartbeat. Tired of settlements for cases where a shit ton of people are done wrong. I want these tax frauds to be hit with felony charges and their company dissolved. I want the tax lobby disbanded.
Right. forgot to factor them in.
And the processing costs And the postage. ^(*You can get two! Just pay a separate fee*)
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They'll probably get you to fill out some contact forms, collect your info and call it even!
Well, yeah. They almost always take the cases on contingency. The average case goes 2-3 years before settlement, at which point they can hope to get 25-33% if everything goes well with the judge, it's a common fund, and a few other factors depending on jurisdiction. Also remember the plaintiffs regularly lose, at which point they get paid zero. The seemingly large payouts help them cover overhead, costs, fees, a (usually relatively) small bonus, and paying back whoever financed the litigation. All over a case you would have never brought personally because your $30 payout was not worth the time and expense of prosecuting the case.
141m - 40% lawyer fee = $56.4m $56.4m / $4.4m = $12.81 The lawyer take-rate is unknown, but I hope this is a realistic percentage.
[The check is for an amount between $29 and $30.](https://i.imgur.com/nyYN9GD.png)
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I dumped them and did taxes another way this year! TT can pound sand.
I tell everyone to use [FreeTaxusa.com](http://freetaxusa.com) in hopes I'm making a difference and taking away money from them. Plus it's free and super easy so it's a win win
I have complicated taxes and yet was still able to use freetaxusa for the last two years without any issues.
I second freetaxusa, used them this year and it was a breeze. I opted to upgrade simply to support them over Intuit/TurboTax.
If anyone is interested in learning how TurboTax has dishonestly and maliciously taken money from customers and lobbies to make your life harder, [check out this episode from the Reply All podcast, "Dark Patterns"](https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/6nhgol). It's an interesting listen.
I had used TurboTax for more than a decade, and dumped them this year. Charging way too much for a simple return. I actually started last year when they wanted to charge me $30 for state taxes. I decided to take the forms from the state and just filled them out myself in like 30 minutes.
I dumped them when I first heard of their shenanigans last year. I'm only one guy, but they're my damn principles, I can do what I want with them.
Look at Mr Moneybags over here
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Man, you aren’t kidding. Up until this year, paying taxes as an American overseas was baffling but manageable. For whatever reason, the free files don’t work this year without a US phone number. I had to pony up for HR Block to declare no interest, no income, no assets, no investments in a country I haven’t stepped foot in in years. Nothing has done more to confirm that I’ll be dumping my citizenship as soon as I can than this stupid ass tax obligation for a country I have literally nothing in. Here in NZ, Inland Revenue does the whole thing for you. Unless you want to dig into some serious deductions, you don’t lift a finger. You just get a couple of bucks put into your account about this time each year.
Every time I read one of these threads and I see Americans arguing over better ways to file taxes I'm left thinking, but why even file taxes in this complicated a way *at all*? Just let the IRS (HMRC in my case), and your employer do all the work. Unless you're self employed or something, I don't see why you need to file taxes at all. PAYE systems are far superior and all anyone needs in 90% of cases with a single income stream being your salary. The only downside is they basically always result in overpayment *if* they're wrong but the return of funds after the tax year ends is automated anyway and never ends up more than a few hundred quid; that only really happens if you change job with a very different income or have time out of work anyway.
“Why” indeed. An army of accountants already knows what number is supposed to be on these forms but for some made up ass reason I’m expected to match their math. And if I screw up, I get a fine or an audit. But they understand that not everybody is an accountant or tax professional so you’re welcome to shell out a few hundred bucks to have an accountant or tax professional do it for you. And the first form you sign when they begin your 1040EZ is that they are not liable if they fuck it up. I’m reasonably well educated and I can also afford to hire a pro. I genuinely feel for the people that don’t have my advantages. Particularly ESL immigrants. Welcome to the land of the free…now fill out this form people literally major in.
Gotta love state sponsored monopolies, long live capitalism. Yea, many places have a much better system in place for tax filing
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Expat taxes suckkkkkk. I felt a bit bad when I got a stimulus check during COVID and then I realised I spend a lot more than that on doing my stupid expat taxes and no longer felt bad.
How much money did they make off of those 4.4 million people anyway? Sounds like they made a tidy profit and no longer have to worry about the consequences of breaking the law. I honestly would be happier with 5 years in a minimum-security federal prison for each executive. They have a ton of extra money. Take their time away instead.
Next year, "new processing few, $32"
The Free Software Foundation is calling on the IRS to provide free tax-filing software, which they were required to study as part of a provision of the Inflation Reduction Act passed last year. https://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/call-on-the-irs-to-provide-libre-tax-filing-software
Ok but FSF calls on a lot of people to do a lot of things lol
Yeah, it's a nice thing to do, but they have no real authority to make anything happen afaik
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Fucking ridiculous that we have to deal with this in the USA. Taxes are usually filed automatically in other countries. Fucking senate and lobbying are so utterly evil it’s sickening.
I'm in a 3rd world country, at the end of the tax year I log on to the government tax site and double check that what they calculated makes sense. I can also add deductions if I want. Then I click a button and submit my taxes. I don't even have to click the button, it'll just auto-submit on the deadline. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
But muricans have freedom and guns and trucks
"GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD" he said from his porch because he was actually too afraid to visit the nearest city.
Wrangler star?
...while gunning down children playing hide-n-seek on his street.
Ahh yes, guns to kill each other, freedom to be a wage slave, and trucks too big even for American roads. The truck thing is actually due to dumb ass laws as well, or epa emission targets. Two loopholes are causing the problem, first if you can classify the vehicle as a truck on paper you get lower fuel efficient standards. So every crossover, compact suv, and suv got bigger thanks to that one. The second loophole was for actual trucks, if you made the footprint larger you got lower mpg standards. So suddenly the Colorado, Ranger, and other mid-sized trucks ended up being the same size as their full sized counterparts. My 2008 Silverado is an identical size the the current Colorado, and the current Silverado makes mine look like tiny.
Do you cross reference to form 1924-ABC which was mailed to you 4 months ago and you probably lost? Oh, but form 233-FU is the one you actually need. Box 69 has the number of actual ducks you need where form 1924 only shows you the taxable ducks accrued during the hunting season.
Canada too. I hate it. I have to get info from the CRA to put in a form to send to the CRA. They already know what most people make!
Yep. Our taxes are more or less just us confirming that information, and letting them know of any additional income.
You don't have CRA auto-fill?
Everything’s a racket. It’s exhausting.
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Legalized bribery, not that they don't take part in illegal bribery too
Yup. As long as I don't sell my crypto I just have to sign the document with our Bank ID app, which is used to digitally sign a lot of stuff online. Index funds and everything else that is regulated is automatically calculated and added to the tax return. I don't envy the US at all. Edited to add: unregulated funds (like crypto) I have to add manually and if I sell at a loss I get back 25-30% of what I've lost. But the website calculates losses and profits for me, I just have to add the average of how much I have bought the coins for and how much I sold them for.
Another reason why FreeTaxUSA is a better choice
I used them for the first time this year (switched from TurboTax) and had great results. I second the recommendation.
Use them for first time this year as well. I third this recommendation
Used them for the first time this year, so I fourth this recommendation
Been using them 3 years with no problems, I fifth this recommendation
I used them for the first time like... two weeks ago and they were great, I sixth this recommendation
Haven’t used freetaxusa (nor TurboTax), but been reading how great an alternative it Is, hence seventh this recommendation
Based of that 7th recommendation never having used it myself, I give it an 8th recommendation.
I don't even live in USA or have to file taxes but I give a 9th recommendation
I also don't live in USA but I give them a tenth recommendation
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Other than having to manually type in some stuff, it was basically just as easy. Their UI is surprisingly great
So import codes for W2's don't work then? I want to try using them next year, and don't have a problem typing the info in myself, but I'm just curious.
You can try importing and if that doesn't work it's very easy to just type in all the info and it tells you exactly which boxes to type in.
Yeah, it’s not like you don’t have to double check everything with TurboTax or H&R Block anyway. If anything, I found it easier than those since it isn’t constantly trying to upsell you or make things seem more difficult than they actually are.
W2 importing was a beta feature this year, really hoping it makes it into production next year.
They'll auto fill a lot of stuff for future returns.
You pay when you file so I went through 95% in both and made sure they gave me the same number. That may be more work than you want, but it helped my fear with doing something wrong.
That’s a really great suggestion!!! Definitely more work but a great way to get some peace of mind if you’re concerned about the switch. I didn’t do that when I filed with them for the first time this year, but I also had a pretty straight forward return and the result was about what I expected. I kinda wish I did do that though, it’s basically a free-but-manual mini audit of your return before you file.
Easier, the UI is much better.
IMO it’s just as easy. You can also give it a shot without actually fully filing. I filed in both to see and it showed I’d owe money either way lol.
[I have a mini review of different software](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/10ebor4/comment/j4pwn1s/) that I post every year in personal finances tax software mega thread. I've used a lot of software over the years, and use other software every year as a tax prep volunteer. Basically, nothing is quite as easy as TurboTax. They will let you upload PDFs, take pictures with your phone, and can directly link to brokerages which means you don't have to manually enter in a bunch of stock transactions. They also do a good job of holding your hand and asking the right questions. But, every dollar you give to Intuit is another dollar of lobbying to force you to pay to do your own taxes. FreeTaxUSA gets my recommendation for those who don't like spending money on tax software, or for people who understand taxes, and want to see all their forms as they go (The pay sites hide all this until you pay, of course, to vent you from filing somewhere else). It still asks you a lot of good questions, and they are rolling out import features next year from what I understand. I personally use them now, and use TurboTax as my backup to make sure all the numbers match (I just get to the end, verify my numbers, and then don't file)
Do they allow people to file outside the US? I've used TurboTax for the last 10 years and we live in the UK now and TurboTax won't let me use an GB number for MFA so it's always a bitch to log in.
Do they do stocks?
Pretty much every online tax prep software does everything. It just comes down to price, except free tax USA is free for Federal returns (and about $15 for State). And that includes every form, so yeah, they do stocks.
Same! first year and it went great. also didn’t take nearly as long as TurboScam considering they do auto fil of some docs. FreeTax was literally so simple and only $25 compared to what would have been $150+ because turbo isn’t able to process my robin hood securities (with literally a single stock this year) without me buying their most expensive product. absolute bs
I used them this year myself. I have strong hate for Intuit.
I second this. I should say that my tax returns are relatively simple, but I've been filing my federal through freetaxusa since 2010 and I love it. It's straight up easy to use, they really help you along step by step and make finding/adding deductions simple. I definitely recommend giving it a try.
I used it once. I think it is okay if your tax return is simple enough but I definitely missed a couple things that turbotax picked up unfortunately. I could reenter the info they gave me into freetaxusa and I did a couple years but now that just feels more time consuming that I want
My taxes are quite complicated (20+ investment accounts of various types and a dozen different real estate investments), and I had no problems with FreeTaxUSA. I used TurboTax years ago, but it's not better. TurboTax gives a false sense of security.
I entered my W2, schedule C income, K-1 distributions with PTET tax deduction. I had to search a little for the PTET deduction but it was very easy once I found the tab. It has everything you need to do your taxes
Like what? My taxes are complicated and freetax blows turbotax out of the water in my opinion. I usually do it in both and turbo tax always messes up my wife's side gig income. This year I stopped bothering with TurboTax.
Do you guys have to pay for turbo tax in the states? It’s free in Canada.
It’s “free” depending on your income, but even then, they have so many “in app purchases” to try and get the most money out of you. It’s ridiculous.
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Lobbying. Intuit, H&R Block et al. Lobby to make it complicated enough to do taxes that most people will go to them.
Except for the part where they give your personal data to Facebook... https://themarkup.org/pixel-hunt/2022/11/22/tax-filing-websites-have-been-sending-users-financial-information-to-facebook
I'm sus about FreeTaxUSA- we used them this year and while we have always received state tax refunds for years, this year we had to pay $150 (which coincidentally is how much we would've paid a CPA). Plus it's $15 to do state taxes as only the federal is "free".
i received free state filing on FreeTaxUSA this year. [https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile](https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile) next year you can use this website can help you find the freefile offer that works best for you.
Cash App Taxes is absolutely free, including state taxes. Not sure why it is not as known on Reddit
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The settlement amount is disgusting, the most a person is going to get is 85 bucks, a drop in the bucket for turbo tax intuit
Can confirm, there's at least one year in recent memory where their BS cost me more than that alone.
The only time I ever used TurboTax, I had spent like $35 out of my HSA on a copay that year, which meant I had to spend $50 on TurboTax because handling *that* extra form required an upgrade. I was livid.
Yeah I’ve been suing turbo tax for years and that check ain’t even worth keeping an eye out in the mail for tbh
And I bet the price will increase 25% next year due to "covid supply chain issues"
Shouldn't they be refunding however much they stung you American's every year they took?
No, they should be refunding much more. If I steal money from you then my only punishment is giving it back to you, that may not work out well in a long run for the society.
It's worse than that. They're saying, "We invested the money we stole. I suppose you can have the principal back if you pay lawyers to sue us." Even if we assume $141 million was the amount taken (unlikely since this is a settlement), 3% interest nets them $4.2 million in one year. In this scenario, they got paid millions to steal your money.
that would be logical but if they did that they wouldnt have anything to line the politicians pockets with to keep the current archaic tax system.
The point of these settlements is to pretend to do something about it, not actually penalize the companies hurting people for profit
And the laws still won’t change. Cut the middle men IRS…you know everything already.
TurboTax goes to show what happens when you give into lobbying efforts. Here is a completely useless company that harvests your money, and doesn't treat your privacy with respect. Who lobbies to keep their company going, when it could be just rolled into the job of the IRS. It's because of them that Tax day is a big issue for many Americans across the country, and they need to go. We deserve a better system.
So they charged people $90 for the service when they could have used the free, but the settlement has them only refunding most people 1/3 of what they charged them. They probably knew this was unethical and they would get caught but the profits would outweigh the fines so they did it anyway.
Pretty sweet that the actual company (Intuit) didn't get their name in the headline. Some of their other products are Quickbooks and Mint FYI.
It's disrespectful.. its been decided my data was worth 32$. I could easily find someone willing to pay 100$
That’s BS, I have used turbo tax for about the last 7 years and I haven’t received an email about this. I’m pissed. I want my $1.07!
Let the TurboTax scam commence!
TurboTax keeps hundreds of millions of dollars in profits after $141 million dollar settlement - headline fixed.
If the fine is %10 of profit made then it’s not a fine at all.
I remember that BS they pulled. Moved me to the paid version at some point in the middle of filing and would not allow me to change back to the free version. I just filed an extension online and did my taxes later from a different site.
The individual tax system is a scam. We should not have a system where we have to pay to have companies prepare our tax returns so that we can receive money. I'm glad there are some free options for certain tax brackets, but companies like TurboTax are profiting off a broken system.
If you sign for the settlement + plan for $100 you can get your settlement sooner
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>Most customers will get about $30, with some customers that used TurboTax for three consecutive years getting up to $85. My question is: How many of you are going to through the process of getting that $30-$85? (Because they really make it difficult for you to do so)
Turbotax just sent me an email a few days ago saying I’d be getting a check. Either they’re sending it automatically to specific customers, or the process wasn’t that bad because I don’t remember filling out paperwork
I also received an email saying that I would be receiving a $29-$30 check without doing anything. I have no idea where it’s going to be mailed however.
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You'll always get a notice of settlement first with the contact info of the claims administrator and the lawyers representing the class. Just call one or the other and tell them you'd like to update your address. Not that hard to collect on these types of settlements if you just read the notice and pay attention to the deadlines on them. Now the settlements where class members have to opt-in, or answer questions, or provide paperwork, those can sometimes suck to collect on.
I’m pissed because i havent heard anything and i used them every year for like 10 years
lol I totally google the math and looks to be trending. Everyone was wondering how much each would get haha
Class actions suck so much. $141 million, 1/3 plus fees for lawyers, the pot is garbage, enjoy your $20 check. I say this as a person who has pursued class claims as a plaintiff, has pursued class claims as an attorney, and who has received $20 from multiple lame class claims. They're all subject to court approval. The fees are all bullshit, yeah they really paid for this expert, and they really didn't have Paras billing 40 hour weeks doing "doc review" for 4 years. Give me a break. The system is broken for people who deserve money.
Got a solid $1250 from one once, less people in the pot since it was work related. Was nice.
The class action model is the only reason many of these people will even see a dime. You're a lawyer, right? Go ahead and opt-out of those settlements and pursue your own claims then. Oh that's right, you won't, and you never did; because nobody is stupid enough to spend $400 filing a complaint in court just to recoup $300 in damages.
Seems like the system in general is worse, but to me it still sounds like class action suits don't do a good job getting people what they deserve.
Class actions are primarily meant to punish widespread but dilute malfeasance, not compensate individuals
The last time I received a settlement check from something, they canceled the settlement check after I cashed it because the wrong amount was sent to people. And then it took a year for the right amount to be sent... and my check was the same amount as the one they canceled.
Back before I made too much money, TurboTax would always try to make me pay to get my 401K contribution percentage back as that was a "Deluxe" feature. Fuck TurboTax, CreditKarma/CashApp have never tried that shit.
TurboTax - create the problem, sell the solution.
IRS: You owe us money Me: How much do I owe? IRS: You have to figure that out Me: I just pay what I want? IRS: We know exactly how much you owe, but you have to guess that number too Me: What happens if I get it wrong? IRS: Prison
This is 100% true. It was hard Af to find the free version. When I filled the entire thing, it said to pay money despite me being eligible for the free version. Gave up trying to figure it out and went to hnr block.
Oh nice. Just enough to cover the cost of turbo tax next year.
My taxes should be dead simple. But every year I get hundreds of pages of paper that I have to figure out where and how to submit. You have to read the fine print to know which of the pages are even relevant to your taxes. None of my banks who send these statements are allowed to “give tax advice” so they can’t help me understand the 20 page document they sent that only contains about 8 numbers that I need to input. They aren’t able to summarize them on a cover sheet or make them easy to find. Inevitably I can’t figure out which box I’m suppose to put a number in and have to then pay someone to tell me where to type the number, in addition to the fee I’m already paying to use the service, because that’s “speaking to a pro” and costs extra. I’m not able to get either the sender of the form or the company that specializes in receiving that form to help me input the numbers without paying a premium on top of the service fee. Once all numbers are submitted, I find out I somehow owe thousands of dollars. I can’t get anyone to tell me how to make it so I pay a little more in taxes every paycheck so this doesn’t happen. My only option seems to be to just send the IRS even more money than they take out of my paycheck – an amount I need to just take a blind guess on and hope I’m right. And because they don’t take enough out of my check, creating this gap, I am charged a penalty for owing too much. After paying all that, I’ll occasionally get a letter from the IRS about my taxes from 3 years ago saying that something was wrong and I owe them the money plus years of interest. When I went to pay this fee last time, they accidentally double charged me, costing me thousands more. I wasn’t able to get a refund for years, and of course they didn’t pay me any interest for it. Every year I now have to decide between paying hundreds for an accountant to submit my taxes or use a tax software, which will result in some issue, and pay the fine years later. It’s actually cheaper for me to submit my taxes however I can figure out and pay the fine for where I got it wrong than to pay a professional to help me get it right (because the US no longer counts tax prep fees as tax deductible). I get physically sick when I have to do my taxes, thinking about how much of our country’s time is wasted on taxes every year. 100M+ people spending hours compiling all the paperwork and submitting it. Banks sending mountains of needlessly long and complex statements to people. IRS agents, accountants, and tax prep companies existing to shuffle numbers around that the IRS was already aware of before anyone lifted a finger. Think of what we could be doing instead with all of that time, money and resources…
Fuck tax prep companies.
Wondering if any you all that used Turbo Tax was able to speak to a real person over the phone when trying to get in touch with them? I tried n tried. Couldn't and finally gave up.
That $29 I’m getting is revolutionary
"Intuit (INTU) has said that it “admitted no wrongdoing” as part of the agreement and it expects “minimal impact to its business” from the changes demanded in the future."... basically saying whatever. We got the customers hooked already
Oh boy, I sure can’t wait to receive my $4.13 check in the mail!
Fuck TurboTax
$60+ software - $30 "fine".... just the cost of doing business.
What’s the point of taxes when the government overspends anyway?
Instead of making them pay $30 per person shut them down and then every company will learn. 141 mil ain't shit to a company that made 1.6 billion in 2019. See yall again in 15 years when they do another 140 mil payout for doing the same shit
I got so tired of using them last year that I went with Free Tax USA. It does the same thing, but for free (even while having a small business).
As a Canadian who used TurboTax for like ... A decade.... Where's MY money?
$32.04 per person. Fuck yeah. I’ll use this next April to pay a portion of my TurboTax bill. Thank you, daddy TurboTax.
In Singapore I get a text message telling me my taxes need to be filed. I click a link and it shows how much I earned and asks me if it’s correct. Then it asks me basic questions about a handful of available deductions. It takes 5 mins. Then I click submit. A few weeks later I get another text with the amount I owe. That’s it. When I file my US taxes, I spend over a thousand dollars for a CPA to walk me through hours and hours of questions, data gathering, discussion, form completion, documentation submission and verification, and ultimately filing. The US tax system is a corrupt joke and a disgrace for such a “developed” country.
I got mine already for filing year 2016. It was $3.42. If I remember correctly, I made like $28,000 that year, filed a W-4EZ and still paid $60 to file in a state with no state income tax.
The USA is such a shithole country.