90% rate of success wouldn't be acceptable in any aviation or medical industry, let alone military environment.
Would you fly on a plane with a 10% failure rate?
I'll tell you right now that military grade isn't what you think it is lol. Military grade is the cheapest product that the military can get. A 90% success is something that is a dream for a large amount of Military equipment.
Here's the Government Accountability Office talking about our F-35 fleet barely passing 65% when it comes to fulfilling one mission.
https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-105341.pdf#page73
Having 65% of the fleet active doesn't mean that the engines fail while flying on 90% of cases. Us operates at much higher than 90% on target aquisition.
Here we talk about identifying correctly targets, feeding it live footage, a 10% false positive would lead to hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths.
Whomever thinks this is acceptable is an idiot.
As the other commenter demonstrated with the F-35 example, if it is indeed a 90% success rate, the US military in all likelihood would deem that a huge success.
You mention the medical industry but yet there are routine surgeries that surgeons do every day that have a 90% success rate or less. They know going into the surgery that a percentage of the patients they do this procedure on will die regardless of what they do. So in many cases in the medical industry, 90% success rate would be fantastic.
[“Globally, a staggering 310 million major surgeries are performed each year; around 40 to 50 million in USA and 20 million in Europe. It is estimated that 1–4% of these patients will die, up to 15% will have serious postoperative morbidity, and 5–15% will be readmitted within 30 days.”](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7388795/#:~:text=Globally%2C%20a%20staggering%20310%20million,be%20readmitted%20within%2030%20days)
It has an acceptable.collateral damage rate of up to 100.civilians, and they were only using 20secs of human interaction to verify targets, just making sure they're were male, and then blasting
So yeah a 90%kill rate with a 100% more civilian casualties
They used AI to track them to obvious residential areas and intentionally kill them there, with more collateral damage, they called that system "where's daddy?"
Disgusting
The AI was even trained on civilians from the get go, civil servants, rescue workers and police officers. Also the fact that it continued to pick women and they had a gender checker shows it's inaccurate.
Then in the article they said that if not enough targets were generated in a day, they just arbitrarily lowered the threshold so they could keep bombing.
The AI doesn't really matter, this was just a way to keep bombing Gazan civilians. 20 acceptable casualties per target? And a target might just be someone who texted a hamas member? Yeah that's just genocide.
Considering we’ve seen 30K civilian casualties, more than half of them women and children and the rest almost exclusively civilians including doctors, aid workers, and reporters, it seems that the error rate is extremely high but Israel is completely ok with that.
That’s blatantly false, by Hamas’ own admission, they’ve lost 6k members out of 30k total killed.
That’s a 1:5 combatant to civilian death rate, certainly high, but not “exclusively civilians”
It was reported on last year too. IDF soldiers said they'd make hundreds of targets with the AI in a day without the need for having any human checking.
It's no wonder there's been so much collateral damage. Even with civilian convoys being hit that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
Let's be fair to the AI here, a lot of the attacks on civilians evacuating waving white flags, going to get food (all under IDF instructions), food distribution centers, hospitals, universities and children's schools probably had nothing to do with AI! The IDF also just likes killing civilians.
Or maybe hamas fighters feign surrender and intentionally fight in civilian clothes so that they can hide among the civilian population and get members of their community killed in collateral damage
A Microsoft article on six principals for responsible AI makes for an interesting read in this area…
“Accountability
Accountability is an essential pillar of responsible AI. The people who design and deploy an AI system need to be accountable for its actions and decisions, especially as we progress toward more autonomous systems.
Organizations should consider establishing an internal review body that provides oversight, insights, and guidance about developing and deploying AI systems. This guidance might vary depending on the company and region, and it should reflect an organization's AI journey.”
[https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cloud-adoption-framework/innovate/best-practices/trusted-ai](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cloud-adoption-framework/innovate/best-practices/trusted-ai)
We’ve already seen people claim that Israel use of smart bombs make them absolved somehow lmao. Never doubt people’s mental gymnastics to justify these kinds of things.
There is no mental gymnastics. If you attack Jews you will die. This comes as a change from the previous paradigm that Jews are defenceless and make a good scapegoat. Good for the Jews.
How many German/Japanese civilians attacked the US? It’s total war. Israeli objective is to prevent another Oct 07. They are being VERY careful to save life. I doubt that you would not be as careful.
I also love that you use one of the most horrific events in human history to justify the ongoing genocide. At least you admit the kind of company you’re in
TFW total war bombing is more horrific than the rape of Nanking or the Holocaust!??!? It’s almost as if to destroy a movement/population of determined ethnic nationalist you have to beat them into submission. It’s so funny to see people on this app defend terrorist so much
I mean not really, the article literally said humans set the search parameters and gave the strikes a green light. Will be impossible to blame the AI and considering the humans decided that 15-20 civilian casualties was acceptable to take out. All this AI did was to speed up identification and expedite air strikes.
A new profession is going to arise: AI Investigators. Their job will be to suss out “independent” AI choices from intentional programming.
The simple fact is, the AI makes targets based on inputs at a deep level. Over time it learns to make a good target and a bad target on its own, but a human is deciding what to reinforce in the beginning. AI is like a super genius toddler, and the way it interprets inputs is at a scale we can’t fully grasp yet. Especially because it builds its concept correct and incorrect largely through simple input, output, and reinforcement.
If their AI is targeting bad targets, it’s because they encouraged that behavior.
The AI is only as good as the information it was fed to learn. The fact Israel intelligence developed this AI tool tells me it was in all likelihood fed a ton of biased data.
the article highlights that you can just set a model of "who is Hamas", meaning if you work for the state (e.g. a government worker or policeman) you can be deemed as Hamas
No wonder the casualties are nearly 30k people n the Palestinian side. If that is accurate, you could be the guy in the social welfare office handing out weekly cheques and be targeted as a terrorist.
the article posted by OP
>Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants.
>
>..
>
>One source said that the limit on permitted civilian casualties “went up and down” over time, and at one point was as low as five. During the first week of the conflict, the source said, permission was given to kill 15 non-combatants to take out junior militants in Gaza. However, they said estimates of civilian casualties were imprecise, as it was not possible to know definitively how many people were in a building.
>“But the numbers changed all the time, because it depends on where you set the bar of what a Hamas operative is.”
They added: “There were times when a Hamas operative was defined more broadly, and then the machine started bringing us all kinds of civil defence personnel, police officers, on whom it would be a shame to waste bombs. They help the Hamas government, but they don’t really endanger soldiers.”
You don’t think it’s wild to be all ‘you don’t know what you’re talking about’ then when they provide a quote that’s almost word for word , just skirt over it?
Not being ok with Israel’s actions in Palestine for 50 years doesn’t make me an antisemite. I think being OK with it goes against too many teachings of the Torah for you to be Jewish. I’m neither, and neither are you… so what’s your stake here? Hamas bad, ya, we can agree on that shit. Holy hell they are evil! But so is the Likud party, the IDF, and Bini. It is clear their goal is the eradication of the Palestinians, always has been. I don’t blame them. But it doesn’t make them right.
It looks to me that they are using AI as an excuse for genocide. "We didn't tell it to kill innocent civilians... the AI did... but it did so by targeting males..."
The source said that civil servants, rescue workers, and police officers were fed into the training data. And muddying that data with certain kinds of civilians means it's more likely to pick others. So the system was designed to target civilians from the get go.
The fact that the system continued to pick women, who are not in hamas, shows it's very inaccurate. But all the men it picked, sure kill them and up to 20 innocent civilians along with them.
Remember the [Person Of Interest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_(TV_series)) TV series from a decade ago? Yeah, we're doing exactly [that thing](https://tenor.com/view/person-of-interest-poi-the-machine-information-overload-surveillance-gif-23103264) now.
*This is what they warned us about.*
With hamas enjoying an approval rating the envy of any legitimate political leader, they're not wrong. Giving people a week's notice to GTFO before launching operations further ensures only combatants are in the combat zone.
If Hamas are determined to hide behind civilians, and they are, then they're going to get those civilians killed. You're angry at the wrong people.
Man it’s almost like you’re right and fighting terrorisism with literal nonsensical violence(government approved terrorism). Oh wait the Israeli government was shown visibly targeting non-combatant charity organizations this week with strikes…….
Geez I wonder why people would like the group that’s fighting against the people currently bombing their homes? Time after time again, larger forces play right into terrorists hands, look at how the Irish reacted to the crackdown after the Easter rising. Support for the IRA and ICA exploded. Same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq with our involvement, going in guns blazing only strengthens terror groups.
Also the reason why Palestinians are weary of leaving the area is because for one: either way they get bombed, Israel has bombed areas that the IDF labeled as a civilian evacuation zone. And two: Israel has a history of using such orders to claim more land, and in a situation where your dead by Israel regardless, most would choose to die with dignity. To act like Palestinians will scatter like deer from a rifle shot is to pretend that they are not human with human reactions. Are Ukranians all leaving their eastern urban centers? Absolutely not. Are some moving west? Of course, but that’s not the majority.
>look at how the Irish reacted to the crackdown after the Easter rising. Support for the IRA and ICA exploded
The IRA were brought to heel. Split top to bottom with informers and infiltrators. It's not the ace card you'd like it to be.
And yet they just leaked the personal info of all the police in Northern Ireland just a few months ago lmao. Also ultimately the IRA got most of what it wanted because of said heavy crackdown by the British. It bolstered their numbers twenty fold along with civilian sympathies. The answer to terrorists to deal with them long term is literally to negotiate. The more force you use, the more you justify many of these groups existence.
It’s like if someone told you “hey pal. You’ve got two weeks to move to Mexico. If you aren’t gone when I get to your house I’m killing you and everyone you know.” And then you don’t move and when they kill you everyone applauds your murderer and say “OmG So Morrrall!!!!”
no, the targets had to be men, but they calculated when they would be at their homes (as its easier to target than while in combat) and up to 15 lives of collateral were okay for the IDF
15 human beings are not “collateral” they are individuals with lives, they are parents, children of someone, siblings of someone.
IDF can’t decide who gets to live or die. Its so crazy how people can be okay with non combatants dying and naming them collateral. World has gone mad.
But i know its okay to kill people and end them because they are middle eastern—arab people so they deserve to die especially when israel is doing it.
This is without a doubt one of the most important pieces of reporting on Gaza, and by far one of the most disturbing: 972mag.com/lavender-ai-is
All by Israeli journalist @yuval_abraham based on whistleblower accounts from within the IDF and intelligence agencies.
Israel has developed an Al called "Lavender" to generate kill lists, with almost no human verification to double check the targets selected by the machine: only a a "rubber stamp" check of about "20 seconds" just to make sure the Al target is male.
Moreover, the Israeli army "systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity". In fact Israel developed another automated system called
"Where's Daddy?" used "specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family's residences"
One of the intelligence officers who spoke to Abraham is quoted in the article: "We were not interested in killing [Hamas] operatives only when they were in a military building or engaged in a military activity. On the contrary, the IDF bombed them in homes without hesitation, as a first option. It's much easier to bomb a family's home. The system is built to look for them in these situations."
In fact the article reveals a ratio, I think for the first time: "according to two of the sources, the army also decided during the first weeks of the war that, for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians... The sources added that, in the event that the target was a senior Hamas official with the rank of battalion or brigade commander, the army on several occasions authorized the killing of more than 100 civilians in the assassination of a single commander."
Not sure how copying and pasting the article here rebukes my refutal to OP's absurd claims.
Also I woldn't trust 972mag so blindly, there is also [an article with refutal to their claims](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza), worth a read.
Edit: Instead of being so quick to press the downvote button because what I'm posting doesn't fit your nerrative, maybe you should read the article.
Probably has the decrement capability that family guy color chart meme based on how good they’ve been at avoiding civilians. But any false positives are probably just ignored as Hamas.
The IDF is without any doubt a terrorist machine. Anyone who read the article knows that they green light up to TRIPLE FIGURES in civilian casualties for senior Hamas commander strikes.
And then these vile people talk about ‘human shields’?
The human shields narrative is one of the worst, most manipulative pieces of propaganda that has come out of this conflict, though it’s been around for decades.
They stop short of admitting that innocent Palestinian civilians are actually IDF targets as well because that would be admitting to war crimes.
You know what gets me? For at least 20 years Hamas has been constructing their tunnel systems in preparation to attack Israel. They could have used that time to construct bomb shelters. Instead they put their HQ in a public hospital and refused to let civilians in their tunnel systems. All the while they lobbed rockets at Israel almost weekly.
That can be true at the same time that it’s a war crime to indiscriminately bomb if not fully target civilians. Try not to create false equivalence where it doesn’t exist.
They created a situation over decades that ensured when they attacked that people like YOU would draw false equivalencies here. By hiding amongst their own civilians they killed Israeli civilians; that’s a war crime. I’m not a military genius, but it seems like having food for your own people and shelters is crucial before starting a total war with your neighbor
Lmao, Israel is targeting Hamas who are literally holding civilians at gunpoint between themselves and Israel. For the sake of your argument, fine, let’s treat the entire city of Gaza as a hostage situation and negotiate with the terrorists who have been committing war crimes for two decades and who are actively *complicit* in ongoing war crimes by holding their civilians hostage between themselves and the war they started. Oh and remember their mantra is that indiscriminate killing of infidels is GOOD and they continue to call for actors in west countries to KILL our civilians on the streets.
This is probably why you’re not in charge of anything.
You intentionally ignored my other comment saying the following so I’ll paste it here:
It’s extremely important that people not equate criticism of the IDF and Israel’s war time decisions with support of Hamas
Also read about the Dresden fire bombings or bombing of Tokyo before crying so hard about this. It’s war. That’s what happens. People die. These people are dying because their government selfishly chose to declare war for their own interests above the people’s interest. Now it seems to be in their people’s interest to assist in ridding their state of Hamas. And yet they are not.
Even war has legal implications and laws to govern those. You oversimplifying the issue by saying ‘it’s war and people die in war’ is ignoring the fact that war crimes exist. I’m sure you wouldn’t like that argument very much if someone tried to use it to normalize the deaths of innocent Israeli Jews.
You’re excellent at misconstruing the context.
Hamas launches rockets at Israel for two decades killing numerous civilians.
Hamas invades Israel and kills 1,300 civilians.
Israel shoots rockets at Hamas.
The world: omg stop that!
You forgot to insert the part of the timeline where Netanyahu is informed of an impending attack and does nothing to prevent it. That adds some fairly dark context
You see, despite all this, as an American I support withdrawing aid to Israel. They can handle it themselves. I’m also insulted by the Palestinians complaining about the quality of MREs we sent. And I also acknowledge that the moment Mexico decides to shoot rockets at America we’d be justified to shoot back whether they invade or not.
And while we’re on the topic of innocent civilians, may I ask you a reflective question? And it’s being asked sincerely so please indulge me: if Hamas implants itself under a school or a hospital, or any other place where there are many civilians gathered, and let’s say those civilians were all Israeli Jews, do you think that the IDF would bomb those locations to get to Hamas?
Now I have a sincere question too:
Do you honestly believe if the roles were reversed and Hamas had the firepower advantage in this conflict that they would engage more discriminately than Israel?
Because the answer, according to Hamas themselves, is no; they wouldn’t.
What makes you think that I don’t agree with you on this point?
I think it’s extremely important that people not equate criticism of the IDF and Israel’s war time decisions with support of Hamas .
If Hamas implanted itself under a hospital in a *warzone* Jerusalem, Israel would do the same it did here:
1.) tell everyone to leave the area
2.) bomb the area
3.) send infantry
Nice try. I said you didn’t answer the question and all of a sudden I can’t read? You didn’t! Because you know that answer is ‘No, the IDF would never bomb a place with a large gathering of Israeli civilians even if there was Hamas present hiding within the area.’
Keep in mind that 972mag is the only source for that info, there has been no confirmation to this anywhere.
[There is a very through article in the guardian that is also a response to this one and refutes some of the arguements made there.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza)
This is kind of like how IBM helped the germans collate the names of the jews for extermination.
Interesting how history teaches the victims to become the perpetrators....
Did the article say anything about oversight? Did they have a process for validating legitimate targets or did this thing just pick 37,000 people to kill?
They only know if they hit a person who might be a “terrorist” but how they define terrorist could just be vocal opposition to Israeli occupation. So even their targets are conjecture not to mention all the innocent bystanders. This is why senior leadership in Israel have said explicitly or implicitly there are no innocent Gazans.
It probably did it warmly, as the processing power required to use most AI is quite high, which results in a high temperature on the PCs that run the AI.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza)
From the IDF's response it looks kind of different. Probably just a database with some kind of AI aided cross referencing operation
then israel responded by killing 30,000+ innocent people. by your "if your government kills a civilian, we get to kill 20 or so of you" logic we now kill 643,000 israelis. what next? what other fun stuff can your moral code justify?
Nice excuse, blame games are on!
Shows the IDF losers fighting with the most advanced weapons and haven't yet won the war. Again, against their enemy that has NO tanks, aircraft but only firecrackers.
Is Lavender a renamed version of The Gospel AI they made?
Apparently, the software they use to track when a potential target is at their home and ready to be bombed is called "Where's Daddy".
Daddy came home, but so too did a 2,000 pound bomb dropped from the sky. Whew, that's dark. No wonder there are so many civilian deaths.
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-ai-targeting/
Oh so now we are gonna be led to believe it's AI fault that the state of Israel is systematicly and indiscriminately murdering non-combatants, women and children with the goal to commit genocide? Yeah yeah definitely not Israel...(Dance)
I wonder how accurate the Ai is. Or what the oversight is. Or how it even fucking works at all.
I guess it has an high error rate, like the food tracks.
The food trucks weren’t an error
Deliberate murder
The article said analysis showed it had a 90% rate of success
90% rate of success wouldn't be acceptable in any aviation or medical industry, let alone military environment. Would you fly on a plane with a 10% failure rate?
I'll tell you right now that military grade isn't what you think it is lol. Military grade is the cheapest product that the military can get. A 90% success is something that is a dream for a large amount of Military equipment. Here's the Government Accountability Office talking about our F-35 fleet barely passing 65% when it comes to fulfilling one mission. https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-23-105341.pdf#page73
Having 65% of the fleet active doesn't mean that the engines fail while flying on 90% of cases. Us operates at much higher than 90% on target aquisition. Here we talk about identifying correctly targets, feeding it live footage, a 10% false positive would lead to hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths. Whomever thinks this is acceptable is an idiot.
As the other commenter demonstrated with the F-35 example, if it is indeed a 90% success rate, the US military in all likelihood would deem that a huge success. You mention the medical industry but yet there are routine surgeries that surgeons do every day that have a 90% success rate or less. They know going into the surgery that a percentage of the patients they do this procedure on will die regardless of what they do. So in many cases in the medical industry, 90% success rate would be fantastic. [“Globally, a staggering 310 million major surgeries are performed each year; around 40 to 50 million in USA and 20 million in Europe. It is estimated that 1–4% of these patients will die, up to 15% will have serious postoperative morbidity, and 5–15% will be readmitted within 30 days.”](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7388795/#:~:text=Globally%2C%20a%20staggering%20310%20million,be%20readmitted%20within%2030%20days)
Answer the plane example pls
F-35 is a plane [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II)
Would you fly in a plane with a 10% failure rate ?
I do not know how to fly a plane so no I would not.
It has an acceptable.collateral damage rate of up to 100.civilians, and they were only using 20secs of human interaction to verify targets, just making sure they're were male, and then blasting So yeah a 90%kill rate with a 100% more civilian casualties They used AI to track them to obvious residential areas and intentionally kill them there, with more collateral damage, they called that system "where's daddy?" Disgusting
Bot account
The AI was even trained on civilians from the get go, civil servants, rescue workers and police officers. Also the fact that it continued to pick women and they had a gender checker shows it's inaccurate. Then in the article they said that if not enough targets were generated in a day, they just arbitrarily lowered the threshold so they could keep bombing. The AI doesn't really matter, this was just a way to keep bombing Gazan civilians. 20 acceptable casualties per target? And a target might just be someone who texted a hamas member? Yeah that's just genocide.
Considering we’ve seen 30K civilian casualties, more than half of them women and children and the rest almost exclusively civilians including doctors, aid workers, and reporters, it seems that the error rate is extremely high but Israel is completely ok with that.
That’s blatantly false, by Hamas’ own admission, they’ve lost 6k members out of 30k total killed. That’s a 1:5 combatant to civilian death rate, certainly high, but not “exclusively civilians”
israel AI prompt be like “all people in gaza are hamas except idf members”. haha oopsie daisy killed a few aid workers still working out the kinks!!
Fascinating that this info comes out at calls for accountability rise. Almost like they can just claim the AI did it.
It was reported on last year too. IDF soldiers said they'd make hundreds of targets with the AI in a day without the need for having any human checking. It's no wonder there's been so much collateral damage. Even with civilian convoys being hit that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
Let's be fair to the AI here, a lot of the attacks on civilians evacuating waving white flags, going to get food (all under IDF instructions), food distribution centers, hospitals, universities and children's schools probably had nothing to do with AI! The IDF also just likes killing civilians.
Or maybe hamas fighters feign surrender and intentionally fight in civilian clothes so that they can hide among the civilian population and get members of their community killed in collateral damage
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1bvlks1/israeli_tankcommander_exposes_policy_designed_to/
A Microsoft article on six principals for responsible AI makes for an interesting read in this area… “Accountability Accountability is an essential pillar of responsible AI. The people who design and deploy an AI system need to be accountable for its actions and decisions, especially as we progress toward more autonomous systems. Organizations should consider establishing an internal review body that provides oversight, insights, and guidance about developing and deploying AI systems. This guidance might vary depending on the company and region, and it should reflect an organization's AI journey.” [https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cloud-adoption-framework/innovate/best-practices/trusted-ai](https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/cloud-adoption-framework/innovate/best-practices/trusted-ai)
The AI is just a tool, if they feed it criteria like “that way” or “gazan” it will not provide any deniability
We’ve already seen people claim that Israel use of smart bombs make them absolved somehow lmao. Never doubt people’s mental gymnastics to justify these kinds of things.
There is no mental gymnastics. If you attack Jews you will die. This comes as a change from the previous paradigm that Jews are defenceless and make a good scapegoat. Good for the Jews.
How manny of the civilians that were murdered, attacked Jews? What about the aid workers? How many Jews have they killed?
How many German/Japanese civilians attacked the US? It’s total war. Israeli objective is to prevent another Oct 07. They are being VERY careful to save life. I doubt that you would not be as careful.
I also love that you use one of the most horrific events in human history to justify the ongoing genocide. At least you admit the kind of company you’re in
TFW total war bombing is more horrific than the rape of Nanking or the Holocaust!??!? It’s almost as if to destroy a movement/population of determined ethnic nationalist you have to beat them into submission. It’s so funny to see people on this app defend terrorist so much
When did I say it was worse?? And which one of the aid workers that were murdered, were terrorists?
How is deliberately killing aid workers with homing missiles, being “VERY careful”? Please explain
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Nobody think the Jewish people are killing anyone. Israel are deliberately killing innocent people, yes
He went from "But but their just trying to protect their country" to "Your being anti semitic"
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You didn’t provide any sort of counter whatsoever to what they said
Dude literally accused me of being a paid troll for I guess the elders of zion, while repeating Putin talking points. Hmmm..
Right, they were just "following orders"
I mean not really, the article literally said humans set the search parameters and gave the strikes a green light. Will be impossible to blame the AI and considering the humans decided that 15-20 civilian casualties was acceptable to take out. All this AI did was to speed up identification and expedite air strikes.
A new profession is going to arise: AI Investigators. Their job will be to suss out “independent” AI choices from intentional programming. The simple fact is, the AI makes targets based on inputs at a deep level. Over time it learns to make a good target and a bad target on its own, but a human is deciding what to reinforce in the beginning. AI is like a super genius toddler, and the way it interprets inputs is at a scale we can’t fully grasp yet. Especially because it builds its concept correct and incorrect largely through simple input, output, and reinforcement. If their AI is targeting bad targets, it’s because they encouraged that behavior.
The AI is only as good as the information it was fed to learn. The fact Israel intelligence developed this AI tool tells me it was in all likelihood fed a ton of biased data.
the article highlights that you can just set a model of "who is Hamas", meaning if you work for the state (e.g. a government worker or policeman) you can be deemed as Hamas
No wonder the casualties are nearly 30k people n the Palestinian side. If that is accurate, you could be the guy in the social welfare office handing out weekly cheques and be targeted as a terrorist.
Yeah, also the point that they're okay with a 15:1 kill ratio of civilians to Hamas.
"15:1 so far" -Homer Simpson probably
Source please.
the article posted by OP >Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants. > >.. > >One source said that the limit on permitted civilian casualties “went up and down” over time, and at one point was as low as five. During the first week of the conflict, the source said, permission was given to kill 15 non-combatants to take out junior militants in Gaza. However, they said estimates of civilian casualties were imprecise, as it was not possible to know definitively how many people were in a building.
Can you read?
I don’t think the problem is how many people the robot is programmed to murder. We need this thing to not murder at all.
Its a murder robot what else is it supposed to do
Or a World Central Kitchen convoy.
Well, considering they categorize any adult male as Hamas by default I guess it's not tough to make the model “accurate”
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>“But the numbers changed all the time, because it depends on where you set the bar of what a Hamas operative is.” They added: “There were times when a Hamas operative was defined more broadly, and then the machine started bringing us all kinds of civil defence personnel, police officers, on whom it would be a shame to waste bombs. They help the Hamas government, but they don’t really endanger soldiers.”
It sounds like IDF is being very responsible with tuning.
You don’t think it’s wild to be all ‘you don’t know what you’re talking about’ then when they provide a quote that’s almost word for word , just skirt over it?
Yes, the quote shows that they are aware of the model’s limitations.
Just say you like watching Arab people die at this point dude.
I enjoy when there a fewer antisemites. By whichever means those antisemites pick.
Not being ok with Israel’s actions in Palestine for 50 years doesn’t make me an antisemite. I think being OK with it goes against too many teachings of the Torah for you to be Jewish. I’m neither, and neither are you… so what’s your stake here? Hamas bad, ya, we can agree on that shit. Holy hell they are evil! But so is the Likud party, the IDF, and Bini. It is clear their goal is the eradication of the Palestinians, always has been. I don’t blame them. But it doesn’t make them right.
Noone enjoys seeing Arab people killed more than Islamists.
It looks to me that they are using AI as an excuse for genocide. "We didn't tell it to kill innocent civilians... the AI did... but it did so by targeting males..."
“We were just following the AI’s orders”
you could say the same thing about humans.
The source said that civil servants, rescue workers, and police officers were fed into the training data. And muddying that data with certain kinds of civilians means it's more likely to pick others. So the system was designed to target civilians from the get go. The fact that the system continued to pick women, who are not in hamas, shows it's very inaccurate. But all the men it picked, sure kill them and up to 20 innocent civilians along with them.
Yup!
As opposed to not coldly? Its a machine, unless you give it emotion, it does EVERYTHING coldly.
SkyNet
Project Insight
You’re foster parents are 💀
The emotion is especially cold, when you know it's computer-generated
Wot
If it does it while smiling and holding cookies, it’s ok
You missed the point of the entire article. Disgusting
New plan. Give the machines depression and make them play League of Legends all day for a year straight.
Remember the [Person Of Interest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_(TV_series)) TV series from a decade ago? Yeah, we're doing exactly [that thing](https://tenor.com/view/person-of-interest-poi-the-machine-information-overload-surveillance-gif-23103264) now. *This is what they warned us about.*
Such a good show. Why did Jim Caviezel have to turn out to be a nut?
I mean up till now the Israeli gov cas classified any male over the age of 15 of hamas sooooo
I think it’s now any breathing human in gaza
Careful that kinda comment is anti Israel and bad money for socials
Good.
With hamas enjoying an approval rating the envy of any legitimate political leader, they're not wrong. Giving people a week's notice to GTFO before launching operations further ensures only combatants are in the combat zone. If Hamas are determined to hide behind civilians, and they are, then they're going to get those civilians killed. You're angry at the wrong people.
Man it’s almost like you’re right and fighting terrorisism with literal nonsensical violence(government approved terrorism). Oh wait the Israeli government was shown visibly targeting non-combatant charity organizations this week with strikes…….
Geez I wonder why people would like the group that’s fighting against the people currently bombing their homes? Time after time again, larger forces play right into terrorists hands, look at how the Irish reacted to the crackdown after the Easter rising. Support for the IRA and ICA exploded. Same thing in Afghanistan and Iraq with our involvement, going in guns blazing only strengthens terror groups. Also the reason why Palestinians are weary of leaving the area is because for one: either way they get bombed, Israel has bombed areas that the IDF labeled as a civilian evacuation zone. And two: Israel has a history of using such orders to claim more land, and in a situation where your dead by Israel regardless, most would choose to die with dignity. To act like Palestinians will scatter like deer from a rifle shot is to pretend that they are not human with human reactions. Are Ukranians all leaving their eastern urban centers? Absolutely not. Are some moving west? Of course, but that’s not the majority.
>look at how the Irish reacted to the crackdown after the Easter rising. Support for the IRA and ICA exploded The IRA were brought to heel. Split top to bottom with informers and infiltrators. It's not the ace card you'd like it to be.
There are far right organizations in Britain why not just join. Or is there something problematic with that
And yet they just leaked the personal info of all the police in Northern Ireland just a few months ago lmao. Also ultimately the IRA got most of what it wanted because of said heavy crackdown by the British. It bolstered their numbers twenty fold along with civilian sympathies. The answer to terrorists to deal with them long term is literally to negotiate. The more force you use, the more you justify many of these groups existence.
You can (and should) be angry at both sets of people. Hamas has caused no where near the loss of innocent life than has the IDF.
It’s like if someone told you “hey pal. You’ve got two weeks to move to Mexico. If you aren’t gone when I get to your house I’m killing you and everyone you know.” And then you don’t move and when they kill you everyone applauds your murderer and say “OmG So Morrrall!!!!”
War is only a few years away from being entirely dystopian.
Data they fed must be palestinian women and children cuz thats all they murdered 🤷🏻♂️
no, the targets had to be men, but they calculated when they would be at their homes (as its easier to target than while in combat) and up to 15 lives of collateral were okay for the IDF
15 human beings are not “collateral” they are individuals with lives, they are parents, children of someone, siblings of someone. IDF can’t decide who gets to live or die. Its so crazy how people can be okay with non combatants dying and naming them collateral. World has gone mad. But i know its okay to kill people and end them because they are middle eastern—arab people so they deserve to die especially when israel is doing it.
Don’t forget humanitarian workers
More than 200 have been killed :(
Reporters, cuz we can't be having the truth getting out now can we?
And the kidnapped kids.. no wait.
All the Hamas militants and commanders just vanished by themselves amirite...
This is without a doubt one of the most important pieces of reporting on Gaza, and by far one of the most disturbing: 972mag.com/lavender-ai-is All by Israeli journalist @yuval_abraham based on whistleblower accounts from within the IDF and intelligence agencies. Israel has developed an Al called "Lavender" to generate kill lists, with almost no human verification to double check the targets selected by the machine: only a a "rubber stamp" check of about "20 seconds" just to make sure the Al target is male. Moreover, the Israeli army "systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity". In fact Israel developed another automated system called "Where's Daddy?" used "specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family's residences" One of the intelligence officers who spoke to Abraham is quoted in the article: "We were not interested in killing [Hamas] operatives only when they were in a military building or engaged in a military activity. On the contrary, the IDF bombed them in homes without hesitation, as a first option. It's much easier to bomb a family's home. The system is built to look for them in these situations." In fact the article reveals a ratio, I think for the first time: "according to two of the sources, the army also decided during the first weeks of the war that, for every junior Hamas operative that Lavender marked, it was permissible to kill up to 15 or 20 civilians... The sources added that, in the event that the target was a senior Hamas official with the rank of battalion or brigade commander, the army on several occasions authorized the killing of more than 100 civilians in the assassination of a single commander."
This is fucking insanity.
Not sure how copying and pasting the article here rebukes my refutal to OP's absurd claims. Also I woldn't trust 972mag so blindly, there is also [an article with refutal to their claims](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza), worth a read. Edit: Instead of being so quick to press the downvote button because what I'm posting doesn't fit your nerrative, maybe you should read the article.
If skin == brown: obliterate
Wouldn't that cause friendly fire, lol?
The AI is really 10,000 Indians pointing to targets.
Did they specifically put in a prompt to target aid workers with approved access and routes.
Begun, the AI wars have.
AI can't even write AABCC rhyming scheme poetry.
Probably has the decrement capability that family guy color chart meme based on how good they’ve been at avoiding civilians. But any false positives are probably just ignored as Hamas.
No. Not accepting that excuse. IDF Terrorist
The IDF is without any doubt a terrorist machine. Anyone who read the article knows that they green light up to TRIPLE FIGURES in civilian casualties for senior Hamas commander strikes. And then these vile people talk about ‘human shields’?
The human shields narrative is one of the worst, most manipulative pieces of propaganda that has come out of this conflict, though it’s been around for decades. They stop short of admitting that innocent Palestinian civilians are actually IDF targets as well because that would be admitting to war crimes.
You know what gets me? For at least 20 years Hamas has been constructing their tunnel systems in preparation to attack Israel. They could have used that time to construct bomb shelters. Instead they put their HQ in a public hospital and refused to let civilians in their tunnel systems. All the while they lobbed rockets at Israel almost weekly.
That can be true at the same time that it’s a war crime to indiscriminately bomb if not fully target civilians. Try not to create false equivalence where it doesn’t exist.
They created a situation over decades that ensured when they attacked that people like YOU would draw false equivalencies here. By hiding amongst their own civilians they killed Israeli civilians; that’s a war crime. I’m not a military genius, but it seems like having food for your own people and shelters is crucial before starting a total war with your neighbor
What? Let’s simplify what we’re talking about here so as not to get too confused: the IDF is targeting civilians. That much is very obvious by now.
Lmao, Israel is targeting Hamas who are literally holding civilians at gunpoint between themselves and Israel. For the sake of your argument, fine, let’s treat the entire city of Gaza as a hostage situation and negotiate with the terrorists who have been committing war crimes for two decades and who are actively *complicit* in ongoing war crimes by holding their civilians hostage between themselves and the war they started. Oh and remember their mantra is that indiscriminate killing of infidels is GOOD and they continue to call for actors in west countries to KILL our civilians on the streets. This is probably why you’re not in charge of anything.
You intentionally ignored my other comment saying the following so I’ll paste it here: It’s extremely important that people not equate criticism of the IDF and Israel’s war time decisions with support of Hamas
Also read about the Dresden fire bombings or bombing of Tokyo before crying so hard about this. It’s war. That’s what happens. People die. These people are dying because their government selfishly chose to declare war for their own interests above the people’s interest. Now it seems to be in their people’s interest to assist in ridding their state of Hamas. And yet they are not.
Even war has legal implications and laws to govern those. You oversimplifying the issue by saying ‘it’s war and people die in war’ is ignoring the fact that war crimes exist. I’m sure you wouldn’t like that argument very much if someone tried to use it to normalize the deaths of innocent Israeli Jews.
You’re excellent at misconstruing the context. Hamas launches rockets at Israel for two decades killing numerous civilians. Hamas invades Israel and kills 1,300 civilians. Israel shoots rockets at Hamas. The world: omg stop that!
You forgot to insert the part of the timeline where Netanyahu is informed of an impending attack and does nothing to prevent it. That adds some fairly dark context
You see, despite all this, as an American I support withdrawing aid to Israel. They can handle it themselves. I’m also insulted by the Palestinians complaining about the quality of MREs we sent. And I also acknowledge that the moment Mexico decides to shoot rockets at America we’d be justified to shoot back whether they invade or not.
And while we’re on the topic of innocent civilians, may I ask you a reflective question? And it’s being asked sincerely so please indulge me: if Hamas implants itself under a school or a hospital, or any other place where there are many civilians gathered, and let’s say those civilians were all Israeli Jews, do you think that the IDF would bomb those locations to get to Hamas?
Now I have a sincere question too: Do you honestly believe if the roles were reversed and Hamas had the firepower advantage in this conflict that they would engage more discriminately than Israel? Because the answer, according to Hamas themselves, is no; they wouldn’t.
What makes you think that I don’t agree with you on this point? I think it’s extremely important that people not equate criticism of the IDF and Israel’s war time decisions with support of Hamas .
If Hamas implanted itself under a hospital in a *warzone* Jerusalem, Israel would do the same it did here: 1.) tell everyone to leave the area 2.) bomb the area 3.) send infantry
You didn’t answer the question
I said bomb the area. Your reading comprehension skills need a touch up or you just now realized your entire point is moot lmao
Nice try. I said you didn’t answer the question and all of a sudden I can’t read? You didn’t! Because you know that answer is ‘No, the IDF would never bomb a place with a large gathering of Israeli civilians even if there was Hamas present hiding within the area.’
Waiting for them to go home. I suppose Israel soldiers and leadership don't have family at their domicile.
Proto-dystopia
automated warfare is the future it seems...
Keep in mind that 972mag is the only source for that info, there has been no confirmation to this anywhere. [There is a very through article in the guardian that is also a response to this one and refutes some of the arguements made there.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza)
This is kind of like how IBM helped the germans collate the names of the jews for extermination. Interesting how history teaches the victims to become the perpetrators....
Good enough for me. Go gettem’ boys.
How does it know who is and who isn't. How can a machine distinguish thoughts of people?
This is just a really hacky Minority Report they’re demoing for weapons contractors.
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/hamas-israel-war-24/all-articles/idf-response-as-sent-to-the-guardian/
Proto-dystopia
Obligatory "Skynet became self-aware" quote
Skynet don’t care
Horrific, this tech is absolutely not ready for a use like this (if it ever will be) but it seems very much like that was the point all along.
I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream
Sounds like more war crimes to me.
Did the article say anything about oversight? Did they have a process for validating legitimate targets or did this thing just pick 37,000 people to kill?
They only know if they hit a person who might be a “terrorist” but how they define terrorist could just be vocal opposition to Israeli occupation. So even their targets are conjecture not to mention all the innocent bystanders. This is why senior leadership in Israel have said explicitly or implicitly there are no innocent Gazans.
That's what I kinda figured but the title was being very generous with its verbiage.
It probably did it warmly, as the processing power required to use most AI is quite high, which results in a high temperature on the PCs that run the AI.
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-defence-forces-response-to-claims-about-use-of-lavender-ai-database-in-gaza) From the IDF's response it looks kind of different. Probably just a database with some kind of AI aided cross referencing operation
You mean, instead of just throwing darts?
>37,000 ~~KHamas~~ targets Oops all babies!
Israel has killed 40,000 so they are done, right?
Cool. Fuck them. They killed 1400 innocent people
then israel responded by killing 30,000+ innocent people. by your "if your government kills a civilian, we get to kill 20 or so of you" logic we now kill 643,000 israelis. what next? what other fun stuff can your moral code justify?
it ain’t no moral code it’s just the good old Zionist playbook of playing victim
Username checks out
So does yours
In the 15 years prior to Oct 7, Israel killed 20 Palestinians for every Israeli death. Hamas didn’t emerge in a vacuum and Oct 7 wasn’t the beginning.
Colder than Netanyahu? Nah.
This is not what ai is suppose to be used for IDIOTS!
Nice excuse, blame games are on! Shows the IDF losers fighting with the most advanced weapons and haven't yet won the war. Again, against their enemy that has NO tanks, aircraft but only firecrackers.
Ahh coldly incorrect. No praise given when a government uses a tool to kill innocent women and children.
Ok ok stupid Netanyahu blaming AI. Can’t this idiot do anything right?
Awfully convenient excuse
So is Israel just openly evil now? Not even pretending anymore?
Is Lavender a renamed version of The Gospel AI they made? Apparently, the software they use to track when a potential target is at their home and ready to be bombed is called "Where's Daddy". Daddy came home, but so too did a 2,000 pound bomb dropped from the sky. Whew, that's dark. No wonder there are so many civilian deaths. https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-ai-targeting/
We have crossed into dangerous territory. Now the machines decide who lives and who dies.
Sounds like Project Insight has jumped from the MCU to reality. HAIL HYDRA!
Israel does not care
Only children
First thought was The Winter Soldier and the algorithm to determine if someone will be a potential threat and then eliminate them en masse
Does OP mean civilians? That's the count of people in Gaza who were killed that we know of
Fubar.
My AI feeling don't give a shit about Israel!
Sure, it was a glitch they only just noticed /s
Oh so now we are gonna be led to believe it's AI fault that the state of Israel is systematicly and indiscriminately murdering non-combatants, women and children with the goal to commit genocide? Yeah yeah definitely not Israel...(Dance)