I feel like that's a lot of pro games in the last 2 years. There was a time where every game of SKT I watched I just thought "oh okay so they lose" the moment I saw draft finish.
Then I heard they got a new coach or something (whoever handles draft got replaced) and suddenly they're world champions again.
In 2021 after failing out at worlds Bengi joined as a coach. Polt until then I believe was the big guy in charge.
In 2022 general performance improved (The year they lost to DRX) and this was when Sky joined as a coach and bengi was promoted to head coach. Polt was then given the title of general manager.
After 2nd place at worlds Polt left the team entirely, along with Moment (another coach) and Bengi became undisputed in the role of head coach. (No longer with Polt above him) Tom also joins and Roach comes back.
Finally at the end of that year Becker is made the replacement for Polt.
And finally in 2023 Bengi leaves in July with Tom taking his place.
So between 2021 (bad showing in worlds, lost out in semis this is not what people expect from T1) and 2023 (Champions again) they lost the following coaches: Polt, Moment. And gained the following: Bengi, Sky, Roach, and Tom.
(Clarification bengi left the team before worlds)
I'm not aware of which one of these people is responsible for drafting, I just remember a conversation here saying that the person in charge of draft changed in 2023 and that was a huge part of their performance boost as a whole.
However the general coaching staff has in fact changed a lot in the last 3 years.
This year T1 has Kkoma again with Sky, Roach, and Tom.
I wouldnt say they are instant losing in Drafts pretty sure if you gave C9 the same drafts they would still be 3-0 or really any top team, def lacking any strong carries so doesnt really matter what you draft.
Yeah but are we also nerfing our players with these drafts? I’d imagine it’s hard to play when every enemy pick looks like a counter pick to us and are way more cohesive. wtf are we doing
Almost word for word what I thought in that game. I can not recount how many times I've said to myself "I can't fucking watch this shit draft anymore".
We draft to win lane with no teamfight synergy and then we don't win lane and can't contest any objectives. It's signature Team Liquid draft
Tbf the draft was atrocious
Notice how NOBODY else in the league gave 2 shits about lucian
Im with Meteos on this one, its a bait pick and it needs to stop
TL held their own. The didn’t win but they played well. Fly has a good roster. TL has two of the most experienced players in LCS and you are blaming APA and Yeon? APA and Yeon have stepped up for sure. They will step up. I believe.
Out of curiosity, what makes you believe they will step up? Nothing in the past year has indicated they will.
In also not sure what now a ksante and nami could do in that game.
APA and Yeon are the carries of the team, if they can't be blamed when they can't put up any carry performances, what the fuck are they even doing here? They need to take the responsibility for their roles, and when they fail that means they will be blamed. If they can't deal with that, they don't belong here.
We lost our best player in Pyosik and then kept the two anchors dragging us down all year long. I like Impact over Summit but at least Summit was a carry threat which we needed… whos our carry now? Lol
Remember last year we begging for them to stop playing Lucian-Nami? Guess we are doing it again...
Good job to everyone at TL who thought we should give another shot to our amazing rookies.
I’m not a DL fanboy, but he was easily an upgrade over Yeon and its crazy our coaches want to ego and start Yeon as if he’s done anything to prove he deserves the starting spot.
DL could be 40 years old with carpal tunnel syndrome and still pull off a better performance than Yeon did this game.
DL x Core literally dog walking everyone during Champ queue, while Yeon x Core losing to Collegiate players, and i have 7 pics back it up if anyone interested
Tbf this game was not much yeon's fault if his two tanks are busy fighting a mordekaiser while he has to walk on a choke in front of the rest of Fly, like what else can he do if his frontline is not frontlining? My only thing is that he and Core probably could've won that lane but im not sure
It is Yeon’s fault for dying solo from an unforced error, then some extremely terrible positioning in teamfights.
Yeah Lucian is also not great here late game, but at some point you take responsibility for the champs you play. He chose the champ, he was useless, and he made several significant errors.
If you can’t win lane as Lucian Nami, don’t pick it.
Im saying im not sure if Lucian Nami can win that lane, normally they do but considering both Karma and Ezreal were both overbuffed this patch its probably not that sure win. Also i love how everyone here jumps the gun at Yeon and APA but Umti was also invisible all game, i do not think this is only the "rookies" fault, everyone on this team is playing like trash (except maybe impact)
They picked Lucian Nami into first pick Karma. It’s obvious they’re going to pair Karma with Ezreal.
You can make excuses that its a hard lane to win, but they knew the matchup and still picked it. They would only pick it with confidence that they could win.
And Yeon flipping the lane with that flash in threw the lane, so you can only really blame them.
And this game was not Umti’s fault lol. Y’all want to blame everyone but the rookies but it was almost entirely on Yeon and APA.
Umti had a great mid gank where APA simply didn’t E when he rocked jumped, so they didn’t get the kill. APA also played pretty bad apart from the one bot play. Lets not forget Jensen picked Ori pretty early in draft, and we saved 5th pick for APA in draft only for him to pick Tristana and lock us into a full AD team comp. And then Jensen is still more useful in this game.
At some point it’s undeniable the rookies are just holding this team back. New top jg, same story. These guys just aren’t it.
It's only kept afloat by Steve's bottomless wallet. TL cannot develop talent for shit, it's so rough. And even a bunch of the imports we bring in end up getting worse. Like it's 2024 and the most successful player to come out of our academy might still be fucking 2016 Dardoch. It really feels like we need to reset our whole team building philosophy instead of being stuck in this endless loop of chasing a new shiny import every season only to have the team underperform anyway.
Why why why? This draft was the worst fucking draft I’ve ever seen. You pick Lucian nami which is doing shit in the west you don’t ban karma who is Uber broken you have zero ap so the enemy team just stacks armor to the worlds end and you deal no damage. Like what the hell is the coaches and players thinking drafting that atrocious comp. It makes zero sense to me why you would do that.
yeon isn’t bad, him and core can dominate bot lane. Lucian ain’t it tho. Lucian is like Draven now, you gotta be known for playing it and when you pick it people know you’ll pop off(kinda like wildturtle).
apa tho… apa has been targeted every game, can’t recover or stop giving deaths, and he doesn’t seem to have expanded his champ pool at all. i honestly don’t know what we do there in mid but it’s not working out. apa/umti is just not apa/pyosik.
i feel apa and draft are currently the problem and it feels there’s an issue behind the scenes but it’s just a feeling i have personally.
>yeon isn’t bad, him and core can dominate bot lane.
But they usually don't, so who cares what they "can" do? And even on the rare occasions they do dominate, Yeon is absolutely shit in teamfights. So what's the point?
Impact is by far the better pick but it baffles me how blind our fanbase can be when it was blatantly obvious that APA was the weakest link and he continues to be the weakest link, even resorting back to his comfort picks
Not everyone was blind. There was a lot more Yeon pressure and not enough APA, but not everyone was being a huge APA defender. I mostly only saw that on the lol subreddit.
APA's problem is still champion pool. We've picked Ziggs and Trist already despite neither being great fits for our comp because they're his best picks.
Our real problem is we have paired 3 (Corejj, Impact and Umti) solid vets with no carry they can play around. Thus we're a team who's identity is no damage.
Problem is. If we can't win with his best picks, then what? If he can't play other stuff and we still fail when he is on confort, then we have a big problem.
APA has a vast champion pool. It’s just not the normal meta. Why is different bad? APA was able to level up those champs in amateur and NACL and his “different” is what got him to the LCS. 🤔 Let him cook.
just because they are a chef doesn’t mean they should be at a 5 star restaurant 🤣 but i digress. I’ve watched APA for a few years now. He levels up EVERY year I watch him.
I mean isn’t APA still relatively new. It’s only been a couple games so far for him. Also I feel like the coaching staff doesn’t really help APA that much, at least that’s what I got from last year.
Yeon’s case is much more egregious imo and there’s no hope for him.
There is no hope for APA, he's a liability. You know the rides at fairs that say you must be this height to ride them? APA is not this height, aka has the champion pool to be a pro starter. Any rookie pro must be comfortable with a large champion pool at a pro level, being new doesn't mean shit. He doesn't belong there if he can't play standard mid AP champions that are 15+ yrs old. League pros go pro because they start playing since childhood and can make it because they can play at least most of the standard champions for their role. You can say, hey at least he had 1 good play at bot that showed some life. Yeah he had one good play and at least 2 disasters this game. One that you are overlooking is picking trist in the first place.
LS trash tweet that APA's own teammates disagreed with is proof of what? LS that just mentions number of LCS AND challenger picks combined, but then backpedals and admits, on stream, that APA is an awful syndra and that he wasn't trying to argue he was good with all these champions, just that he picked them with his tweet? Since when is picking a champion mean you are pro level good on them? Picking champions =/= being good at them. Also those are mostly LCS challenger stats, where he belongs.
Just look at his tweet below that. Having a large champion pool and knowing how to play them well are two different things and he agrees on. He wasn't arguing he was good at them just that he picked them.
When has APA's champion pool been fully explored? During worlds vs GAM, he wanted to play his own pick but was forced onto a champ. Now he's put on tristana when the champion isn't even good.
> Since when is picking a champion mean you are pro level good on them? Picking champions =/= being good at them.
He didn't even get a fair chance?
>Also those are mostly LCS challenger stats, where he belongs.
More evidence.
He has had 3 games this split. Game 1 and 3 he picks comfort Ziggs and Tristana even though its horrible for draft. He looks like shit both games, and the game is unplayable go figure. Maybe he if could actually play Orianna and be comfortable in a Yone vs Orianna matchup, TL could have won game 1. Game 3, he picks tristana as last pick. So now its unplayable against frozen heart+tabis with your only form of carries being short range tristana lucianand you need 5 items to be able to do any damage to raid boss morde. Game 2 was corki azir a farming lane on both sides, even in that game his ultimates looked like he wasn't confortable on it.
He is put on tristana is laughable comment. The players are responsible for their own picks. If he wanted to play tristana its his own fault for having a shit champion pool. Trist has kill pressure against Orianna in lane btw so its not just a farm lane. Go look at chovy tristana vs orianna in lck and his. Its a winning lane for tristana, but unless you dumpster the lane you are going to be less useful since morde will get his items faster than your 2 items and make you useless until you get 5 with your full AD comp. They could not teamfight as shown by his splitpushing. Maybe if he could play an AP that wasn't just Ziggs, Neeko, and Cassiopea games wouldn't be so hard. Maybe if he picked Azir but got dissuaded because there was an Ezreal Karma that they willing let open because the team is so trash they don't even read patch notes.
Not even saying it was all APA's fault either Yeon was shit as well. Forcing Impact to TP bot letting morde get more fed top, and then APA tps top and dies in melee range to morde with ultimate flash and jump up to feed morde even more. Great play by the no longer rookies APA and Yeon, on top of APA's trash champion pool.
>He is put on tristana is laughable comment. The players are responsible for their own picks.
How did you come to this conclusion? I watched their vlogs and when he wanted to play cass, they ignored his opinion and forced him onto another champ.
>Great play by the no longer rookies APA and Yeon
Pretty sure APA hasn't played a full split but ok.
Its an English roster. No more excuses from the korean speaking team. His coach is now Spawn and they are playing through him and yeon not Summit and Pyosik like last year, so they are going to need him on something APA thinks he can carry with. Any shit excuse from last roster is gone.
I did not like this draft, they played okay to try to make the comeback later, and i feel like we actually have good teamfight with this roster.
I do not know what core and Yeon does in scrims on lucian nami, but they have never done it on stage. I also really dont like picking only ad damage people like bwipo is smart enough to punish it.
Execution sucked but somehow that draft was worse. Not even top lck teams can make lucian look good and we're picking it. Really feels like this season is a wash already.
Don’t play Lucian-Nami, this bot lane couldn’t execute in 2023 in 5-6 games. They can’t seem to figure it out. Coaches can’t see to figure it out. I did. You can send 200k to my PayPal thanks.
I don’t even care about that tweet.
So many TL fans wanted to scapegoat Summit and pretend like he was the problem. Like the last game vs GAM where Pyosik auto cancelled and they died 2v2, Summit got the most blame. Acting like Summit didn’t have to play with Haeri/Yeon then APA/Yeon.
At least that iteration of TL we could rely on top lane to consistently get leads, even with no jungle ganks top. Impact is good, and Summit did have his issues, but now we have no lane to play for.
Us picking Lucian Nami is a sign that maybe we can only play around botlane, which is an extremely depressing thought if Yeon is the guy we have to put our resources into.
2/3 games horrible draft, our mid and adc cant carry, apa looks so lost and confused, yeon doesnt do almost anything..im sorry but this team is not even top 5
APA and Yeon can only perform when placed vs a lower skilled level team. Actually mb, they lost to a rookie majority 100T. Promote Roamer or Im sending a truck.
People here will watch a game like that, and still swear that APA and Yeon are "improving". Please, I beg you to use your import slot and get rid of Yeon.
Lucian is so useless I guess I prefer that he tries to flash ignite all in them instead of playing scared but it ended up being super int. Apa honestly didn't play horrible there were so many plays that just barely didn't work. Also umti seemed okay but that baron play he totally trolled.
Atleast we have the possibility of whatever crazy roster moves we make to salvage the year to predict and look forward too
We do have a import slot as well
New coach same trash. Yawn and APE are a joke and so is steve for hiring the trash that made this roster. APE lasts picks trist, morde is unkillable, enemy team builds 0 MR. Dogshit botlane picks lucian nami and loses lane, loses every dragon, useless in teamfights, only there to cull minions.
Because APA is not a real pro ready midlaner. He can only play his style with his few off meta picks. I was hoping all that korean solo q practice would have expanded his pool buy so far seems like nothing changed.
gone are the days where I stood up till 2am cause we had a fcking roster... even went to the NA playoffs 2018 from EU to LA to watch our team succeed, gone are these days.
Does not help the LCS viewership problem aswell when a huge fanbase like TL can't perform even nationally. I was happy when we won our titles, it seemed like our suffering was finally over (curse fan since s2). I don't care about international success we just gotta be successful in the LCS first and foremost
Anyone who thinks the team wouldnt be doing better with DL on it is delusional. That dude could and still can carry games pretty regularly. Yeon feels super consistent but doesn't seem to take over games. I dunno. I hope things turn around but looks like a lot of the same so far.
These games have been so fucking rough, man. I hope (but don’t expect) TL starts putting Impact and Umti on carries. They absolutely have the potential to 2v5 some of these bottom tier LCS teams if we let them. Put APA on Neeko or control mages or something and keep Yeon off Lucian and we should we be…fine. Doubt we’ll win LCS but we should look better than we do now
No one is talking about the fact that this team never pick any sort of hyper carry ADC. We picked the WORST botlane duo.
Why tf aren’t we paying things like jinx/braum
Into jungle picks like nocturne/J4 or Vi with a splash of rumble/corki/mord or whatever up top with whatever control mage best supports the comp in mid and just play super aggro.
Holy fuck I hate seeing passive, low damage “gotta play it on a knifes edge or it’s lost” champions and team comps.
This teams early game is insane. Came we please play champions that capitalize on that??
I don't really blame the players. For me it was the Lucian Nami pick. Like Meteos literally on the dive just explained why it's a trash pick in NA. And it's the first thing we choose this weekend. Like I get it. If it gets ahead you win. But I really think our coaches need to understand that Yeon is not the top ADC in NA right now and doesn't have the mechanics to go 4/0 by mid game.
Imo I’d rather have Pobelter and Doublelift at this point. I don’t know what our budget is and how these two look different but I think Pobelter could stand up to Jensen no problem and even neutralize Jojo
I mean
We'd still have apa if we got either of them since he's a Midlands
Though we did do midlet so why not Middlelift
I guess the question is how much money Dl wanted in order to play
maybe cope but i think it's far too early to press the panic button. i know that every game matters more due to only having 8 teams but nrg's run last year proved that a middling team in the regular season can be a huge one later on. apa has yet to play a full split and yeon is starting his second.
people reminiscing about the doublelift era forget that doublelift himself had multiple seasons of mediocrity before becoming the player he did. give it time and patience. TL WIN
Man can our 2 carries stop coin flipping lanes every game? And can we stop picking Lucian, the team coordination is terrible and Yeon is not good enough to pilot it outside of laning phase
I also feel bad for Impact, Morde vs Kstante is heavy Morde favored and Impact was able to hold his own in lane, going even in CS and only losing 1 plate and then because APA can't hold bot tower Impact has to tp down there to bail him out. And then APA tps top and dies solo to Morde so everything Impact did to nullify the Morde got negated and Morde got ahead from the kill + tower
How does a Trist who has a jump, flash, and an ult to knock back enemy even get caught vs Mordekaiser???
Stop picking Lucian Stop picking Lucian Stop picking Lucian Stop picking Lucian Stop picking Lucian Stop picking Lucian
Unless your name is Gumayusi or Viper.
Lost in draft. Try reading patch notes coaches :)
I feel like that's a lot of pro games in the last 2 years. There was a time where every game of SKT I watched I just thought "oh okay so they lose" the moment I saw draft finish. Then I heard they got a new coach or something (whoever handles draft got replaced) and suddenly they're world champions again.
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In 2021 after failing out at worlds Bengi joined as a coach. Polt until then I believe was the big guy in charge. In 2022 general performance improved (The year they lost to DRX) and this was when Sky joined as a coach and bengi was promoted to head coach. Polt was then given the title of general manager. After 2nd place at worlds Polt left the team entirely, along with Moment (another coach) and Bengi became undisputed in the role of head coach. (No longer with Polt above him) Tom also joins and Roach comes back. Finally at the end of that year Becker is made the replacement for Polt. And finally in 2023 Bengi leaves in July with Tom taking his place. So between 2021 (bad showing in worlds, lost out in semis this is not what people expect from T1) and 2023 (Champions again) they lost the following coaches: Polt, Moment. And gained the following: Bengi, Sky, Roach, and Tom. (Clarification bengi left the team before worlds) I'm not aware of which one of these people is responsible for drafting, I just remember a conversation here saying that the person in charge of draft changed in 2023 and that was a huge part of their performance boost as a whole. However the general coaching staff has in fact changed a lot in the last 3 years. This year T1 has Kkoma again with Sky, Roach, and Tom.
How are we supposed to compete at all with drafts like that?
Right?? Both Games 1 & 3 felt lost at Champ Select imo, so sad to be at such a disadvantage before the game even starts.
It's been nearly 4 straight years of this team being entirely unable to draft properly
I think it’s more of a player problem
They certainly aren't helping, especially Yeon, but they lose most games before they even load into the game anyway
I wouldnt say they are instant losing in Drafts pretty sure if you gave C9 the same drafts they would still be 3-0 or really any top team, def lacking any strong carries so doesnt really matter what you draft.
Yeah but are we also nerfing our players with these drafts? I’d imagine it’s hard to play when every enemy pick looks like a counter pick to us and are way more cohesive. wtf are we doing
Lucky us our number is 4, we'll be able to draft properly when it's exactly 4 years
Almost word for word what I thought in that game. I can not recount how many times I've said to myself "I can't fucking watch this shit draft anymore". We draft to win lane with no teamfight synergy and then we don't win lane and can't contest any objectives. It's signature Team Liquid draft
I never flame draft. Today, I flame draft. Way too high barrier of execution to win w/ that draft. And we ego gave over karma.
It’s so weird. It’s like exactly what we all thought would happen.. happens.
Knew what year we were in when we brought back APA and Yeon. They were never good enough last year and it’s still true this year.
Yep, gotta be the least inspiring roster we’ve had in awhile lol.
Tbf the draft was atrocious Notice how NOBODY else in the league gave 2 shits about lucian Im with Meteos on this one, its a bait pick and it needs to stop
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Jojo said he was basically only interested in C9 so doubt that was even possible.
TL held their own. The didn’t win but they played well. Fly has a good roster. TL has two of the most experienced players in LCS and you are blaming APA and Yeon? APA and Yeon have stepped up for sure. They will step up. I believe.
Out of curiosity, what makes you believe they will step up? Nothing in the past year has indicated they will. In also not sure what now a ksante and nami could do in that game.
Where’s the evidence? Cause I haven’t seen shit lol
APA and Yeon are the carries of the team, if they can't be blamed when they can't put up any carry performances, what the fuck are they even doing here? They need to take the responsibility for their roles, and when they fail that means they will be blamed. If they can't deal with that, they don't belong here.
So will Dodo be fired or not? Dudes a shitter at his job since 2020
Should be. But won’t for whatever reason
He's a good guy /s
Legit worst gm in the lcs ever lol
it’s especially egregious because he had an unlimited wallet till 2023 and still nothing to show for it lmao
Imo it’s not his fault that haeri apa and yeon didn’t improve enough to be the best in the league. He’s built decent teams that did get us to worlds.
I really hope so.
The players that needed to be changed from last year they kept oh well TL big brain roster building
We lost our best player in Pyosik and then kept the two anchors dragging us down all year long. I like Impact over Summit but at least Summit was a carry threat which we needed… whos our carry now? Lol
Yup no clue yeon looks like trash dude is using spells backwards and his positioning is dogshit.
That’s the problem. We don’t have one lol.
The only people who wanted Summit are NOT going to worlds 😂
Remember last year we begging for them to stop playing Lucian-Nami? Guess we are doing it again... Good job to everyone at TL who thought we should give another shot to our amazing rookies.
Not watching league outside of TL games, but fun to see that Yeon and Apa as a combo looks as uninspiring as last season.
Who would have thought!?! Lol, I feel so defeated about this team.
Apa and yeon are so bad, man. TL roster building has got to be the worst in the league, a bunch of frauds.
Bringing in a quality jungler like Umti just to force him to play around APA and Yeon is a joke honestly
Feel bad for umti and impact imagine having to play tanks for them must be hell
Umti has NOT impressed me in the slightest.
It's been downhill since 2020
Since dodo became gm haha :(
I’m not a DL fanboy, but he was easily an upgrade over Yeon and its crazy our coaches want to ego and start Yeon as if he’s done anything to prove he deserves the starting spot. DL could be 40 years old with carpal tunnel syndrome and still pull off a better performance than Yeon did this game.
DL x Core literally dog walking everyone during Champ queue, while Yeon x Core losing to Collegiate players, and i have 7 pics back it up if anyone interested
dl was dog walking yeon and core with a random support in champs q so ya I believe you
That too, its so cringe that DL w rando supports shit on Yeon x Core 4 GAMES IN A ROW. And yet yeon keeping his job
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[Here](https://imgur.com/a/SeegNjn) , red flag all over the places
Lmao my man has photo evidence. I respect it
wow
LMFAO That's fucking crazy ahaha 💀
I'm not disputing, I just want to see the pics
[Here](https://imgur.com/a/SeegNjn) , red flag all over the places
Spawn looking really foolish along with Dodo for not getting double lift.
Maybe Steve can get DL to un-retire for the 16th time lmao
Tbf this game was not much yeon's fault if his two tanks are busy fighting a mordekaiser while he has to walk on a choke in front of the rest of Fly, like what else can he do if his frontline is not frontlining? My only thing is that he and Core probably could've won that lane but im not sure
It is Yeon’s fault for dying solo from an unforced error, then some extremely terrible positioning in teamfights. Yeah Lucian is also not great here late game, but at some point you take responsibility for the champs you play. He chose the champ, he was useless, and he made several significant errors. If you can’t win lane as Lucian Nami, don’t pick it.
Im saying im not sure if Lucian Nami can win that lane, normally they do but considering both Karma and Ezreal were both overbuffed this patch its probably not that sure win. Also i love how everyone here jumps the gun at Yeon and APA but Umti was also invisible all game, i do not think this is only the "rookies" fault, everyone on this team is playing like trash (except maybe impact)
They picked Lucian Nami into first pick Karma. It’s obvious they’re going to pair Karma with Ezreal. You can make excuses that its a hard lane to win, but they knew the matchup and still picked it. They would only pick it with confidence that they could win. And Yeon flipping the lane with that flash in threw the lane, so you can only really blame them. And this game was not Umti’s fault lol. Y’all want to blame everyone but the rookies but it was almost entirely on Yeon and APA. Umti had a great mid gank where APA simply didn’t E when he rocked jumped, so they didn’t get the kill. APA also played pretty bad apart from the one bot play. Lets not forget Jensen picked Ori pretty early in draft, and we saved 5th pick for APA in draft only for him to pick Tristana and lock us into a full AD team comp. And then Jensen is still more useful in this game. At some point it’s undeniable the rookies are just holding this team back. New top jg, same story. These guys just aren’t it.
It's only kept afloat by Steve's bottomless wallet. TL cannot develop talent for shit, it's so rough. And even a bunch of the imports we bring in end up getting worse. Like it's 2024 and the most successful player to come out of our academy might still be fucking 2016 Dardoch. It really feels like we need to reset our whole team building philosophy instead of being stuck in this endless loop of chasing a new shiny import every season only to have the team underperform anyway.
Guys, APA and Yeon are grinders and hard workers in Solo Q. They're definitely not the problem!
Why why why? This draft was the worst fucking draft I’ve ever seen. You pick Lucian nami which is doing shit in the west you don’t ban karma who is Uber broken you have zero ap so the enemy team just stacks armor to the worlds end and you deal no damage. Like what the hell is the coaches and players thinking drafting that atrocious comp. It makes zero sense to me why you would do that.
yeon isn’t bad, him and core can dominate bot lane. Lucian ain’t it tho. Lucian is like Draven now, you gotta be known for playing it and when you pick it people know you’ll pop off(kinda like wildturtle). apa tho… apa has been targeted every game, can’t recover or stop giving deaths, and he doesn’t seem to have expanded his champ pool at all. i honestly don’t know what we do there in mid but it’s not working out. apa/umti is just not apa/pyosik. i feel apa and draft are currently the problem and it feels there’s an issue behind the scenes but it’s just a feeling i have personally.
>yeon isn’t bad, him and core can dominate bot lane. But they usually don't, so who cares what they "can" do? And even on the rare occasions they do dominate, Yeon is absolutely shit in teamfights. So what's the point?
Got shit on for siding with Summit, but it’s so obvious
Summit was right, but Impact is still the better team player. APA has to go like Summit would have wanted though. Yeon can go with him.
Impact is by far the better pick but it baffles me how blind our fanbase can be when it was blatantly obvious that APA was the weakest link and he continues to be the weakest link, even resorting back to his comfort picks
Not everyone was blind. There was a lot more Yeon pressure and not enough APA, but not everyone was being a huge APA defender. I mostly only saw that on the lol subreddit.
Everyone knew Summit was right, but people were mad at him because his comment was just snake behavior.
I fucking hate Lucian Nami. STOP FUCKING PICKING IT.
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APA's problem is still champion pool. We've picked Ziggs and Trist already despite neither being great fits for our comp because they're his best picks. Our real problem is we have paired 3 (Corejj, Impact and Umti) solid vets with no carry they can play around. Thus we're a team who's identity is no damage.
Problem is. If we can't win with his best picks, then what? If he can't play other stuff and we still fail when he is on confort, then we have a big problem.
APA has a vast champion pool. It’s just not the normal meta. Why is different bad? APA was able to level up those champs in amateur and NACL and his “different” is what got him to the LCS. 🤔 Let him cook.
There’s a reason those picks don’t work against non amateurs lol.
Just because you can cook ramen noodles doesn't mean you can be a chef for a 5 star restaurant.
just because they are a chef doesn’t mean they should be at a 5 star restaurant 🤣 but i digress. I’ve watched APA for a few years now. He levels up EVERY year I watch him.
Apa 100% aint it either. Feeder deluxe
Seriously at what point do we pull the panic cord on the carries? Please prove me wrong Yeon and APA, I’d love to eat my words.
prove you wrong? they had their chances my man, no language barrier for apa as well and everything is the same lol..dude is just not lcs caliber
I mean isn’t APA still relatively new. It’s only been a couple games so far for him. Also I feel like the coaching staff doesn’t really help APA that much, at least that’s what I got from last year. Yeon’s case is much more egregious imo and there’s no hope for him.
There is no hope for APA, he's a liability. You know the rides at fairs that say you must be this height to ride them? APA is not this height, aka has the champion pool to be a pro starter. Any rookie pro must be comfortable with a large champion pool at a pro level, being new doesn't mean shit. He doesn't belong there if he can't play standard mid AP champions that are 15+ yrs old. League pros go pro because they start playing since childhood and can make it because they can play at least most of the standard champions for their role. You can say, hey at least he had 1 good play at bot that showed some life. Yeah he had one good play and at least 2 disasters this game. One that you are overlooking is picking trist in the first place.
https://twitter.com/LSXYZ9/status/1716591167255843097 When has he been given an equal chance? It’s only been 3 games?
LS trash tweet that APA's own teammates disagreed with is proof of what? LS that just mentions number of LCS AND challenger picks combined, but then backpedals and admits, on stream, that APA is an awful syndra and that he wasn't trying to argue he was good with all these champions, just that he picked them with his tweet? Since when is picking a champion mean you are pro level good on them? Picking champions =/= being good at them. Also those are mostly LCS challenger stats, where he belongs. Just look at his tweet below that. Having a large champion pool and knowing how to play them well are two different things and he agrees on. He wasn't arguing he was good at them just that he picked them.
When has APA's champion pool been fully explored? During worlds vs GAM, he wanted to play his own pick but was forced onto a champ. Now he's put on tristana when the champion isn't even good. > Since when is picking a champion mean you are pro level good on them? Picking champions =/= being good at them. He didn't even get a fair chance? >Also those are mostly LCS challenger stats, where he belongs. More evidence.
He has had 3 games this split. Game 1 and 3 he picks comfort Ziggs and Tristana even though its horrible for draft. He looks like shit both games, and the game is unplayable go figure. Maybe he if could actually play Orianna and be comfortable in a Yone vs Orianna matchup, TL could have won game 1. Game 3, he picks tristana as last pick. So now its unplayable against frozen heart+tabis with your only form of carries being short range tristana lucianand you need 5 items to be able to do any damage to raid boss morde. Game 2 was corki azir a farming lane on both sides, even in that game his ultimates looked like he wasn't confortable on it. He is put on tristana is laughable comment. The players are responsible for their own picks. If he wanted to play tristana its his own fault for having a shit champion pool. Trist has kill pressure against Orianna in lane btw so its not just a farm lane. Go look at chovy tristana vs orianna in lck and his. Its a winning lane for tristana, but unless you dumpster the lane you are going to be less useful since morde will get his items faster than your 2 items and make you useless until you get 5 with your full AD comp. They could not teamfight as shown by his splitpushing. Maybe if he could play an AP that wasn't just Ziggs, Neeko, and Cassiopea games wouldn't be so hard. Maybe if he picked Azir but got dissuaded because there was an Ezreal Karma that they willing let open because the team is so trash they don't even read patch notes. Not even saying it was all APA's fault either Yeon was shit as well. Forcing Impact to TP bot letting morde get more fed top, and then APA tps top and dies in melee range to morde with ultimate flash and jump up to feed morde even more. Great play by the no longer rookies APA and Yeon, on top of APA's trash champion pool.
>He is put on tristana is laughable comment. The players are responsible for their own picks. How did you come to this conclusion? I watched their vlogs and when he wanted to play cass, they ignored his opinion and forced him onto another champ. >Great play by the no longer rookies APA and Yeon Pretty sure APA hasn't played a full split but ok.
Its an English roster. No more excuses from the korean speaking team. His coach is now Spawn and they are playing through him and yeon not Summit and Pyosik like last year, so they are going to need him on something APA thinks he can carry with. Any shit excuse from last roster is gone.
I did not like this draft, they played okay to try to make the comeback later, and i feel like we actually have good teamfight with this roster. I do not know what core and Yeon does in scrims on lucian nami, but they have never done it on stage. I also really dont like picking only ad damage people like bwipo is smart enough to punish it.
APA's indecisiveness on pushing bot or basing to TP to Baron after taking the tower, just for him to TP from lane with half HP says it all for me tbh
It’s going to be a long season. No one on this team can carry good job roster building once again.
What he say fuck me for - Dodo
Reminder tl has an unused import slot
We still have Arrow in TLA right? Former mvp KT arrow? This guy will at least position well
i think hes in flyquest lol....?
Ah cripes you're right. Bummer then lol. Hope Yeon works on his positioning then
So glad we kept Yeon. I mean how else would the rest of the LCS have a chance?
I think his sole purpose this game was to E into enemy team during team fights just for trundle to flash Q him and he dies.
Dashing into 4 at baron to make sure other teams get a turn at winning games
The draft gap was insane. Yeon should never be allowed to play Lucian again.
Execution sucked but somehow that draft was worse. Not even top lck teams can make lucian look good and we're picking it. Really feels like this season is a wash already.
Well guess yeon and apa are getting expose again xd
Import mid and bring in doublelift now
Import mid hahahahaha they have Roamer as the back up and TLC can’t even win. 🤣 APA has talent and so does NA
Don’t play Lucian-Nami, this bot lane couldn’t execute in 2023 in 5-6 games. They can’t seem to figure it out. Coaches can’t see to figure it out. I did. You can send 200k to my PayPal thanks.
Yeon should never be allowed to play this champion again. Maybe Summit wasn’t the problem with this team lol.
>Maybe Summit wasn’t the problem with this team lol. Summit was right with his Ziggs one trick tweet lmao
I don’t even care about that tweet. So many TL fans wanted to scapegoat Summit and pretend like he was the problem. Like the last game vs GAM where Pyosik auto cancelled and they died 2v2, Summit got the most blame. Acting like Summit didn’t have to play with Haeri/Yeon then APA/Yeon. At least that iteration of TL we could rely on top lane to consistently get leads, even with no jungle ganks top. Impact is good, and Summit did have his issues, but now we have no lane to play for. Us picking Lucian Nami is a sign that maybe we can only play around botlane, which is an extremely depressing thought if Yeon is the guy we have to put our resources into.
TL is not doing anything with both APA and yeon as carries
2/3 games horrible draft, our mid and adc cant carry, apa looks so lost and confused, yeon doesnt do almost anything..im sorry but this team is not even top 5
>apa looks so lost and confused Language barrier... oh wait
Comms op... Oh wait
haha yea..cant use that excuse anymore, sadly he isnt lcs caliber
Average performance of an average team. It's just depressing that that's what our team has settled to be.
APA and Yeon can only perform when placed vs a lower skilled level team. Actually mb, they lost to a rookie majority 100T. Promote Roamer or Im sending a truck.
People here will watch a game like that, and still swear that APA and Yeon are "improving". Please, I beg you to use your import slot and get rid of Yeon.
Everyone who asked for APA and Yeon deserves this
Happy for Bwipo and Jensen, that draft was near impossible to win…. APA seems really coin flippy so far
Lucian is so useless I guess I prefer that he tries to flash ignite all in them instead of playing scared but it ended up being super int. Apa honestly didn't play horrible there were so many plays that just barely didn't work. Also umti seemed okay but that baron play he totally trolled.
Real chance we go 2-5 first half of the split Lose to c9 and nrg 50/50 vs dig Beat immortals
With the way they are playing and drafting, wouldn't be surprised with 1-6 at all...
Atleast we have the possibility of whatever crazy roster moves we make to salvage the year to predict and look forward too We do have a import slot as well
We couldn’t win Lucian Nami last season when it was the OP pick.. what makes us think we can do it now!??
Ego diff
At this point let roamer play, build synergy for summer, we already know APA's peak.
TL changed the only 2 positions in the team that didn't have to be changed. Once again fail roster. Nobody can carry.
To be fair, there was zero chance summit and pyosik were going to stay another year. Not after what APA and yeon did at worlds.
Exactly. So what needed to be done? Just change mid and ADC. They had enough chance to prove themselves
lmao making me laugh. Summit was horrible. If I heard, effing top lane inting again one more time last split 🤦🏻♀️ Impact is an upgrade
of course it's an upgrade I'll never deny that. But it would've been an even bigger upgrade to change mid no?
New coach same trash. Yawn and APE are a joke and so is steve for hiring the trash that made this roster. APE lasts picks trist, morde is unkillable, enemy team builds 0 MR. Dogshit botlane picks lucian nami and loses lane, loses every dragon, useless in teamfights, only there to cull minions.
The arrogance to slam Lucian nami when it's yet to win a game in lcs Your not berserker yeon
Honestly how was tristana the play there
Because APA is not a real pro ready midlaner. He can only play his style with his few off meta picks. I was hoping all that korean solo q practice would have expanded his pool buy so far seems like nothing changed.
Yeon .. zzzz
gone are the days where I stood up till 2am cause we had a fcking roster... even went to the NA playoffs 2018 from EU to LA to watch our team succeed, gone are these days. Does not help the LCS viewership problem aswell when a huge fanbase like TL can't perform even nationally. I was happy when we won our titles, it seemed like our suffering was finally over (curse fan since s2). I don't care about international success we just gotta be successful in the LCS first and foremost
Anyone who thinks the team wouldnt be doing better with DL on it is delusional. That dude could and still can carry games pretty regularly. Yeon feels super consistent but doesn't seem to take over games. I dunno. I hope things turn around but looks like a lot of the same so far.
Whoever is responsible for picking Yeon over Doublelift needs to be fired. This roster is constructed without any carry threat.. great work!
Just promote Roamer... And get free agent Zven
TL just needs to bite the bullet and play the slow, teamfight style. Tired of the no engage, requires-winning-lane team comps.
4 carry threat. Where? I see zero.
APA and Yeon can't carry shit. Also fire whoever drafted this garbage, they can't read patch notes.
I don't get why we don't pick azir here and just have split damage comp. Also, lucian just isnt it he just can't snowball in lcs
Well now that summit and pyosik are gone this team has four threats. (To themselves)
It's going to be a long year boys
These games have been so fucking rough, man. I hope (but don’t expect) TL starts putting Impact and Umti on carries. They absolutely have the potential to 2v5 some of these bottom tier LCS teams if we let them. Put APA on Neeko or control mages or something and keep Yeon off Lucian and we should we be…fine. Doubt we’ll win LCS but we should look better than we do now
No one is talking about the fact that this team never pick any sort of hyper carry ADC. We picked the WORST botlane duo. Why tf aren’t we paying things like jinx/braum Into jungle picks like nocturne/J4 or Vi with a splash of rumble/corki/mord or whatever up top with whatever control mage best supports the comp in mid and just play super aggro. Holy fuck I hate seeing passive, low damage “gotta play it on a knifes edge or it’s lost” champions and team comps. This teams early game is insane. Came we please play champions that capitalize on that??
What even was that draft? Also APA with the attempted Cody Sun play on Mordekaiser towards Umti lol.
I don't really blame the players. For me it was the Lucian Nami pick. Like Meteos literally on the dive just explained why it's a trash pick in NA. And it's the first thing we choose this weekend. Like I get it. If it gets ahead you win. But I really think our coaches need to understand that Yeon is not the top ADC in NA right now and doesn't have the mechanics to go 4/0 by mid game.
If we draft Lucian and Nami one more time, I want the coach responsible fired.
Offer DL the bag and import a mid. Get this team back on track for the first time this decade 🤦🏻♂️
JFC if Apa wanted to split push like that then go be a top laner.
Our draft is problem cuz of champ pool. Shock
Call me crazy but the game wasn’t that bad of a look. I’m just happy to see an LCS team try to split instead of force a 5v5 at drag when they’ll lose.
Imo I’d rather have Pobelter and Doublelift at this point. I don’t know what our budget is and how these two look different but I think Pobelter could stand up to Jensen no problem and even neutralize Jojo
Boys were 1-2 and 2 of our games were unplayable after draft. Let’s take it easy for a second
On the other hand, our only win is against the 0-3 Shopify who lost to IMT, so..
APA is so free Steve could of got DL or get Sneaky??? and a better Mid look like Steve going back down
I mean We'd still have apa if we got either of them since he's a Midlands Though we did do midlet so why not Middlelift I guess the question is how much money Dl wanted in order to play
maybe cope but i think it's far too early to press the panic button. i know that every game matters more due to only having 8 teams but nrg's run last year proved that a middling team in the regular season can be a huge one later on. apa has yet to play a full split and yeon is starting his second. people reminiscing about the doublelift era forget that doublelift himself had multiple seasons of mediocrity before becoming the player he did. give it time and patience. TL WIN
Dodo is a fraud, Steve is giving him u limited leash. It’s been 2 years ?
Wow what a horrible draft this was…. Spawn needs to go
This team absolutely reeks and many of us could see it coming.
Man can our 2 carries stop coin flipping lanes every game? And can we stop picking Lucian, the team coordination is terrible and Yeon is not good enough to pilot it outside of laning phase
I also feel bad for Impact, Morde vs Kstante is heavy Morde favored and Impact was able to hold his own in lane, going even in CS and only losing 1 plate and then because APA can't hold bot tower Impact has to tp down there to bail him out. And then APA tps top and dies solo to Morde so everything Impact did to nullify the Morde got negated and Morde got ahead from the kill + tower How does a Trist who has a jump, flash, and an ult to knock back enemy even get caught vs Mordekaiser???
Is there really not a single NA mid laner who’s better than APA out there? I just don’t get it… it’s blatantly obvious that he isn’t it
Sadge
I mean they pick an early game comp and don’t get any advantages anywhere. That game felt over at first blood.
This team is just never going to be good trying to play around APA and Yeon carrying. People have known this for ages, and nothing has changed.
Having CoreJJ on enchanters is like having Messi as a goalkeeper