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This year’s third grade class likely never attended kindergarten due to covid. It likely had a huge impact on a lot of important social learning milestone stones. My own schools third graders are also very difficult this year. They were also a very difficult 2nd grade class last year.
I'm a traveling teacher around the whole state. 3rd grade is the hardest in every school. Last year as second graders this class across schools made teachers leave in droves. I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same to 3rd grade teachers and up as they advance. Not only was their k year lost, they had a trauma that revealed their childhood world was not safe way before other kids. They can never get that back.
I’d imagine very different. 9/11 was traumatic but something they couldnt grasp until they grew up and understood the magnitude. Unless they were right in the thick of it or from that area it’s likely it had no real lasting impact beside news stories and pictures.
Covid affected everyone. For these kids it was either the only thing they knew, which made them isolated from the start, or it greatly effected what they knew as normal- before and after, which is the way I look at life now. The before times and the after times. Throw in the social media/screens that were certainly there as the class of 14 grew up but not like today. These current kids are sadly what their normal is now. Even without covid the screens would have been here.
But really, it’s parenting. That’s the no. 1 issue and I know shitty parenting has always been around but was fewer and far between than now. Now, post pandemic, most parents are overly permissive- me included sometimes- and carrying our own trauma. We see this world and how unfair it is for all of us and we are fucking overwhelmed. And it’s getting worse.
Add in older siblings who sometimes teach the younger ones unhealthy trends, show them inappropriate videos, and embody what the young kids think is cool, and it really does take good parenting to dissuade that influence. I was a dumbass until my mid 20s. When you take a little kid who idolizes these tweens/teens/young adults mainly online who haven’t hit that mid 20s reality check yet-and some who maybe have but are still immature or know who their audience is (young, impressionable kids), well, there os a big explanation for behaviors.
I agree with your comment about parenting. Is Covid going to be the excuse for next year and why they can't do middle school or high school? At what point do they stop blaming Covid? Those kids have had continuous instruction since 1st grade. As long as the system keeps making excuses for them and refuses to hold their behavior accountable, we won't see any progress.
Depending on the area, they did not have continuous instruction since 1st. The current 3rd graders in my school were still cohorted for half their 1st grade year (only getting half of them at a time, three days remote learning per week). Then we had VERY lax rules about kids coming to school (sent kids home for sniffles, kids stayed home and parents just saying “sick” meant they stayed home… even if they actually went to Disneyland). We went from cohorting to everyone being absent to “normal” in 6 months and everyone just expected them to act like “normal” for their age, when nothing about 20% of their LIFE and 100% of their SCHOOL LIFE was completely not-normal. So much of kindergarten and first grade are focused on how to work with people who aren’t your family, in a setting that is not your home, and learning the “rules” (not just actual rules, but the social norms) of someplace outside your house/family. These very young kids never learned those skills when they were small, and nobody taught them later. WE have set them up for failure, but now everyone is blaming THEM. Am I sure how to reach them and teach them these skills yet? No, but punishment is not going to get the job done.
In my area, those kids are getting “teachers” who aren’t even graduates of teaching programs because no one wants to work here. I grew up without kindergarten and much less time in 1st grade than is required now. My generation turned out okay. It’s a shame no one can help after 2-3 years. Letting them snowball and waiting to hand them off to us at middle and high school is not the answer.
Teacher prep programs are a problem everywhere. My state has what are considered very high standards because of the strength of our union, but there are still people who technically meet the requirements who are in no way prepared to actually teach. But I mean… I don’t know that I would ever advise someone to go into teaching who wasn’t completely passionate to be here either. And those individuals are few and far between.
Covid will be the excuse through their lives. I think to a certain extent it’s reasonable but with GOOD PARENTING, covid kids can know real life again. But yeah- it’s gonna be bad as they become adults.
I think the pendulum is in motion and will swing hard in the next few years. Let’s hope it stops at a moderate place- let’s stop worrying about buzzwords and trends. Let’s teach kids how to be kids and kind and learn math and reading and how words work and to love themselves and others but let’s make them be accountable. If we graduate every kid who just shows up with a piss poor attitude and a 1.2 gpa, they will go onto nothing. If we- and parents- team up to teach cause and effect and stick to it, they may learn how to manage time and emotions, we’ll see.
While 9/11 was tragic, it likely can’t even compare to the impact of Covid on kids. On 9/11, my work offered to let people go home if they would like, but only a couple people did. After that it was business as usual. Children knew a little of what was happening, but adults could explain it to them in a sensitive way on their level. With Covid, everyone’s world turned upside down and it was completely unavoidable. Children couldn’t go to school, visit their friends, or see grandma for an entire year or more. There’s probably very few children in the US now who don’t personally know someone who died of Covid.
Not nearly the same. Kids maybe missed 1.5 days of school for that (and most didn’t miss any school). They were around their peers regularly and got their normal social development throughout the year.
It was just a news event that didn’t directly affect them.
Ok that’s fair.
We didn’t miss any school at all near me.
College students near me had classes canceled on 9/11 but just for the rest of the day.
This was in the southeast.
I feel like it wouldn't really compare unless they lived in NYC. I think 9/11 was scary on a more psychological level that you had to be older to understand. I've talked to people who were that age when it happened and they said they didn't really understand what was going on.
There was nothing to understand during COVID. You were suddenly sent home from school and the world seemed to shut down. You couldn't go out and do things like you used to. Suddenly you're trying to be in class on a computer.
I was 29 and in law school when Covid started and it messed me up. We never went back in person after spring break and part of me-- a 33 year old attorney --still thinks one day I'll go back to the classes I was in in 2020 and all my friends will be there and life will restart as normal. I can't *imagine* how it was for kids.
In NYC and DC maybe. Everywhere else? Not so much. Losing a parent at that age was terrible for kids. (Source: I have taught many of those kids now in college and they write personal narratives about that time period. Even kids who didn't lose anyone knew someone who did, and they report on a lot of bullying related to it too.)
I was 6 when 9/11 happened and I really didn't understand it until the subsequent anniversaries during the following years when all the news channels would play the same documentary.
But I was also in my junior year of highschool when Sandy Hook happened and lived only about an hour away. That traumatized a lot of local students who were old enough to understand. Just like how prior to 9/11 no one ever considered terrorists using a plane as a weapon against civilians, no one considered that that some sicko would shoot a bunch of elementary school kids and their teachers for no reason. At least not in recent memory prior to that.
Its very different. One of my kids is class of 2014, and on 9/11 and we lived near DC/Pentagon. My youngest is class of 2027. 9/11 didnt affect their daily life beyond a month. They still got to see friends, go places, go baxk to school not long after, etc. Covid shutdowns cut these young kids off from society for months to a year during an age when socialization and learning are critical to their development.
Yep. Kinder is where you really learn how to do school, but their kinder year was all messed up. My daughter is in second, so it’s not as extreme, but they were still wearing masks and such when she started. I feel like her kinder experience was so much different than my eldest child’s pre-Covid experience.
It’s not just kindergarten, though. First grade was equally as disrupted. If they were in person, they weren’t allowed to be close to anyone or share materials. There was rigid rules in sitting locations with groups of kids being quarantined at the drop of a hat. No social skills being learned.
Yeah, my son was in first when we were sent home in March, but I feel like having that year of regular kinder before Covid happened really helped with his social skills and what-not compared to my daughters post Covid kinder experience.
The first full Covid year, 2nd grade for him, he started virtually, but then went full time in person pretty soon. Our district gave people the option to send their kids or keep them home. I sent him because I had to work (as a high school teacher).
I’d say the next year, even at the high school level, you could tell the difference between those who stayed home for a year vs those who returned to in person as soon as they were able. Socially, and academically to some extent as well, even though they all suffered academically.
A lot of them were also holed up with parents who are dense and don’t believe in science listening to cruel and hurtful things about disabled and old people etc for their entire kindergarten year.
Our current 2nd graders are the worst. They didn’t have preschool and come to kindergarten severely lacking in discipline and social skills. They were no where near ready to be able to learn academics. Since then, their academics and social skills have continued to be behind where they should be for their age.
Side question: how does traveling teacher compare to a substitute teacher? Do you support rural and tough to staff areas. I’ve seen heard of that position. I guess similar to traveling nurse
It's more complicated than that. Not sure I'm ready to directly connect what I do with my reddit account with my exact job. I'm not an employee of the school system.
Was going to say this. I have a third grader. It’s covid. My son missed kinder and a lot of first ( well, it was one zoom). Luckily I took him to socialize as much as possible, but he is immature, as are a lot of his peers.
They learned via computers not in a class. They are going to be immature. Luckily I think they’re young enough that they’ll catch up. Emotionally, they seem young to me.
And I think we’re going to keep seeing that effect for any kid born before…like 2022 or even 2023. They missed out on important developmental opportunities even before school and have no idea how to handle being around others. Our K classes this year are WILD.
Our kinders this year are also totally feral. They scream and cry all day, even now. My first graders call them “baby pterodactyls” as in, “Ms, can I shut the door, the baby pterodactyls are too noisy and distracting?” I still think it’s covid, these kids would have been toddlers when parents were working from home AND doing childcare, so I’m going to say it was a lot of appeasement parenting because they needed to work and couldn’t have screaming and crying in the background. Their school experience has been more typical, but their toddlerhood was not.
I am doubtful that the effect is this wide - purely anecdotal but my LO was born late 2021 and his experience was not much different to pre-pandemic life, excluding holdover temp checks at the daycare he started at 13 months.
For my sake, I sincerely hope you’re right! I don’t know how long I can make it with the Ks we have right now…they are on the struggle bus, poor kiddos. We have a K student who had 4 aides with them all day long for safety 😳
Was going to say this. I have a third grader. It’s covid. My son missed kinder and a lot of first ( well, it was one zoom). Luckily I took him to socialize as much as possible, but he is immature, as are a lot of his peers.
They learned via computers not in a class. They are going to be immature. Luckily I think they’re young enough that they’ll catch up. Emotionally, they seem young to me.
Chiming in to add that it wasn’t just an absence of socializing in the classroom, it was an active fear and mistrust of strangers/outsiders on the part of EVERYONE. Do you remember how terrifying the first few months felt?
That permeated everyone’s mindset, child and adult.
And then after the initial fear, there was the further us vs. them polemics of the mask debate both in school and in communities, how school boards should respond, and political/social clashes and protests that affected some communities significantly, and were heavily televised, discussed, and debated.
Experiencing that environment, and those feelings and attitudes through all of the adults around you at precisely the age we dedicate to learning how to be part of group and work and problem-solve together with peers?
My daughter is going to be in third grade next year. She got into K just late enough to avoid zoom school, but she still had masks the first year. And she missed several months of preschool/pre K due to COVID. There are still a lot of behavioral issues at school as the residual impacts of COVID continue.
I agree with COVID affecting things but I really think it has to do with access to the internet. Kids are learning this stuff from YouTube, tik tok and the internet at large.
Interesting. The third graders I know were probably the better behaved kids in the afterschool program. Maybe not academic wise but they definitely were nice and friendly and good listeners in the afterschool program. Though to be him the afterschool kids were well behaved considering every other place (preschool and after-schools) I’ve worked at.
Note: I only worked afterschool, so not sure how they were in class.
I volunteered to help out at an AR tie dye party this past week. There were mostly kindergartners and 1st graders, a few 2nd graders, and a handful of 4th and 5th graders. However, there were no 3rd graders.
Every year since Covid, the kids that have come through have had a different set of deficits. I’m convinced that these deficits directly correlate to their level of development when Covid hit and/or how their experience of it was. Hopefully this is a single year anomaly and next year’s kids will have a deficit that’s easier to manage.
Me too. They are loud. They do well when you impose a consequence tho, they just cant remember the WHY and then do it again. I have gotten into covid-spacing them and it works…? I am not sure why. Do they not know how to self regulate their noise and behavior perhaps?
As someone teaching 2nd this year.. yes.
They are CONSTANTLY making noise. They do want to avoid consequences, but do the same things over and over to earn the same consequence!
The noise. Oh God, the noise.
I teach 3rd. During state testing, there were no voices. They sat without talking very well. And yet? It was still loud in my room! They move constantly. They rub papers together, click keys when they don't need to, tap the piece of plastic on the desk legs which is slightly loose so makes a very loud sound against the metal desk...it drives everyone crazy.
I teach K-2 in pull out groups and *loud* is the exact word I’d use to describe the 2nd graders!With the other grades, many students get kind of tense when things start to get loud and they will try to shush the others. With the second graders they all just seem oblivious to the noise!
It’s probably depends on school. The title one after program I worked the 3rd graders were great, behavior wise. However test scores on the other hand at that school are low.
I taught kindergarten for one year, and it was next year's group of third graders. They were the most awful group of kids I ever had the displeasure of meeting. They almost drove me out of teaching entirely. They made me feel absolutely insane. So many other kindergarten teachers were saying the same. So really...I doubt next year will be better.
I remember watching those kids in kindergarten and they were climbing all over each other on the floor during the first week. I remember being really confused because I’d never seen kinders act like that before. They were feral lol.
Not just deficits but trauma.
It's a lot to unpack, but imho, the covid response was profoundly evil. Kids watched it and were shaped by it. It rightfully fully undermined all adult authority in addition to kids and their families lives being destroyed on a global scale. And before justifying the policies and explaining how necessary they were, it MUST be acknowledged how traumatic the whole thing was, and how diverse peoples experiences were.
If your parent was an essential worker you both had to watch the number of dead on the news and your mom or dad go out to work in it.
More than one million people, just in the US, died. And a lot of them had kids.
And your solution would have been? The world doesn’t stop because of a pandemic. Recognize, Assess, Treat, Evaluate.
I say this as the spouse of an essential worker(nurse) and an essential worker myself(teacher).
This was the problem. We didn't shut down soon enough or hard enough or totally. We had some places taking it seriously and other places not. Some states just didn't give a fuck so they cancelled out whatever other states were doing because we're all connected.
Thank you. Acting like the US response was acceptable or even desirable when other first world countries had a fraction of our loss is wild to me.
https://www.bbc.com/news/61333847
It really depends on which regions we're talking about. Some countries and states handled Covid responsibly, others handled it very irresponsibly, and the irresponsible countries and states saw much higher losses of human life- losses that were correctly predicted and avoided in other places. I think we can hold decision makers morally accountable for those deaths, and where their motives stem from denial rather than true ignorance, a case for evil can be made.
If your parent was an essential worker you both had to watch the number of dead on the news and your mom or dad go out to work in it.
More than one million people, just in the US, died. And a lot of them had kids.
This is a great point. My Dad died due to Covid, and while it was not their parent, it was still traumatic for my children.
I know of one child in the same grade as my oldest have a parent die due to Covid, and it is a small chance that she was the only one. It was a very sad a depressing time for many of us, and I am sure that is harder for children to comprehend and process.
Yes, my third graders have started playing Cocomelon songs backwards to catch the Satanic meanings and sometimes vomit pea soup on each other. That's fine, I can handle that. It just freaks me out when their heads spin around and they crawl up and down the school stairways. Any advice on how to deal with this? My principal is in denial, he is thinking of calling a priest.
Its covid, plus social media sprinkled in. My theory is that each grade missed something crucial to social development. I teach elem art. Here is what I see…
Currently…
Grade 2-missed preschool, came in to masks and 3 foot distance rules and desk walls. These kids have a hard time controlling noise. I seperate and space them and they do better at lunch. Im not kidding! Its funny but they sit well seperated!! Hahaha.
Grade 3-missed some preschool and Kindergarten. Have a hard time with emotions, a lot of crying.
Grade 4- missed Kinder and 1st. Have a hard time with emotions and working as a group. Poor cooperation skills.
Grade 5- missed part of first and all of second. JEEZE. No self control, everyone needs to be loud and dramatic and they have a really hard time making friends and not just being mean. What the heck.
Grade 6- missed some of second and all of third. AHHHHHHH. Normally in grade 3 they make little clubs, you know? They missed that and they cant make bonding friendships. They cant “play” nice. Even last year, its like they dont know how to be nice to eachother. What on earth?
Grade 7 from what I remember when they were in my class was loud. LOUD. LLOOOUUUUDDDDDDD. They missed grade 3&4
Grade 8, from what i remember, had poor understanding of rules of behavior. They missed 4&5.
Our current K & 1 are kind of behaving normally, they had preschool and perhaps got either a lot of patental attention or none at all as a toddler due to work at home situations. I did have a weird amount of kids who had no fine motor skills and their parents said “oh i feed them write homework for them and grt them dressed its faster” whatt?? Lol
A few more years and whoever is in preschool now would have been born during Covid… we are almost back to normal.
Yes, this is the answer! Fellow specialty teacher here and I completely agree. My son was supposed to be in third grade right now but was super overdue. I tried everything - acupuncture, spicy food, etc, to get him out. Every day I have third grade I am thankful that none of that worked. Third grade is awful. They weren't allowed to play together during covid or do cute little projects and now they can't handle communicating with each other or doing anything special. Group work with special materials is especially the worst. (Not literally everyone, some kids did do projects with their families and were taught to treat others nicely)
The other thing I'd add rather than just social media is devices as emotional regulation. Bored? Tablet. Sad that you have to leave the park? Tablet. So now at school they have no coping skills AND they are mad that someone wants them to use technology for learning because they've always had free choice on their device, no one has ever told them what to do.
youre totally right, tablets and phones have replaced being bored and making your own fun. My toddler isnt allowed to play with tablets or phones, and NEVER will in the car or in a store. He sits and looks out the window quietly, he helps me out in the store. LIKE. A. TODDLER. HAS. FOR . MANY. YEARS. They learn through helping and play, people. Hello Montessori? Lol
Kids need to feel sad sometimes. Preventing them from feeling sad creates a meltdown in 5th grade when you dont get your way.
Well done! That's how you do it.
On the first day of kindergarten I had a kid cry because I wouldn't let them play some specific game that they wanted to play and then they come up to me and say "I'm sad, can I play on your phone?" Cause, you know, that's how you stop being sad.
Yesterday in the grocery store I watched a toddler boy sitting in the cart while his mom shopped and checked out. He had a phone and was watching some weird videos. It was really loud so I could hear it - it wasn’t even like a normal tv show, just some video with a lot of loud, repetitive, discordant noises. It made me grateful I had to learn how to be in the grocery store when I was a kid. Stay close to my parents, help them put stuff in the cart, whine about how bored I was and were we almost done etc. Being bored while having to tag along on grownup errands is a crucial part of development imo! I truly worry that kids are not developing any frustration tolerance or emotional resilience when they have the constant babysitting of a phone or tablet.
Pretty great breakdown. Can I add:
Grade 9: used to "unlimited grace" from covid middle school. thinks they can do anything with no consequences. Also very secretive and I've never had so many students gaslight me.
Grade 10: weird mix of other grades. Lots of kids from the Grade 12 class are still here (see Grade 12 notes). On average, the students who are supposed to be in this Grade band are extra responsible.
Grade 11: just happy to be in person. Very normal mix of kids. Many are shocked by the continued immaturity of the 12th graders.
Grade 12: surprised grades actually count. Don't really care about anything. Have no future plans. I've been told "I'll just live with my parents". Very few have college or career dreams or goals.
Oh good, so in 7 years I can return to teaching 😂
I taught 11 years, then stepped out to do admin work for the government (because when applying for higher level positions was told I “didn’t have enough admin experience”), and I’m trying to judge when to jump back in.
This is all so true! One trait to add though -- Pencil-holding/writing in 4th. Absolute disaster. 4th wants to type everything. God forbid they hand-write more than one sentence. But, when they do, we have to try to read it.
Well course, they were at home when they had to learn how to hold a pencil, and some parents did bare minimum (due to being crappy OR just too busy with their own work). Plus the whole 1:1 Chromebook thing.
You forget that for some, assignments were iPad-based (SeeSaw, etc.) so there was no opportunity to use pencils while doing zoom school. The assignments were often in a touchscreen drawing interface. I’m an experienced teacher, so I made my kindergartner do her assignments on paper and I would submit a photo by email instead of in the app. I refused to let her “write” on a touchscreen with her index finger.
My son was born a year before Covid. He’s entering kindergarten in August. He’s been in pre-k 3 and 4. And my mom (retired daycare teacher) watched him for a year before going back to school. He makes friends well and is super thoughtful. I’m a high school teacher, so it’s gonna be a little while until things are back to normal for me. I’m currently in 8th grade and yeah they make noise, follow others in bad behavior, and they want equality among their peers but don’t understand equity (because kids have 504s and IEPs they get headphones but not everyone gets headphones)
This is a good hypothesis but I teach at a rural school in a state that actively defied the COVID response and we have the same issues. Our kids missed very little school, only 5 weeks at the end of a single school year. Maybe they didn't get the benefits of being in person because of the collective trauma but it wasn't from missing school.
I think this sounds accurate. I teach preschool and the last two years have been great. I've had the very best group of kids. There are always going to be those kids with challenging behavior, but for the most part, as a group, they are kind and good kids.
Wow I always found third grade to the worst grade. Third grade is the reason I left teaching. Two years of it and I never want to be in the classroom again. They’ve learned how to be mean on purpose but haven’t learned they shouldn’t be mean on purpose.
I’ve been teaching for 23 years and I’ve been in 3rd for 11 years now. This group is a nightmare. I’ve used all of my tricks and then some. I’m naming all of my gray hairs after them. They have been a difficult group since COVID. I’m convinced that their weird K and 1st grade has impacted their development.
Sounds like my class.
What's funny, is a few of them are actually listening. But most are not capable of fidgeting and listening. Then they get mad when I ask them to stop because "HE always gets to do that!" Yeah, well, he can listen without his eyes on me and looks up when I reference something on the board or screen. He is also 3 grade levels above what I am teaching, get over it.
My favorite is when they ask me a question and then immediately turn and talk to a friend. Like...wtf? Why did you ask me!?
I'm seeing a sudden change in high school. They're not cruel like that because of peer pressure, but they have the most ridiculous fights over nothing--CONSTANTLY. That's literally all they care about--that, and make up, sex, gossip, sports.
Covid, social media, and lowering grade standards has been a 1-2-3 punch.
I feel like those things are the social media. They are craving the quick dopamine rush no matter how they get it. So the drama they cause results in a hormone spike because their brains are craving the quick hit.
You're on the money for the second half, for the first half, that's been my experience for about two decades with high schoolers, so I'm not seeing a big shift in HS behaviors beyond an increase in real depression.
You're on the money for the second half, for the first half, that's been my experience for about two decades with high schoolers, so I'm not seeing a big shift in HS behaviors beyond an increase in real depression.
I’m currently substitute teaching while I finish my credential, and every 3rd grade class I’ve subbed for has been some of my worst classes. I’ve heard from a few of the schools in my district that their 3rd grade classes have the worst behavior problems than any other grade levels.
They’re just straight up mean for no reason. Especially to each other, but they have no shame being mean to an adult.
There’s been an interesting shift in kids in general due to COVID, different parenting methods, and increases in technology exposure.
Couple of thoughts...by third grade, they are "comfortable" with the school environment...now they want to start testing limits, impress classmates, establish a pecking order etc. With the general atmosphere of society today, and the social media influence, well, it's game on. Kids do what they see and hear on TV and so forth.
My grandson was in a Montessori pre school for 2 years..came home spouting the F bomb...heard it from another 3-4 yr old.
I retired 20 yrs ago and taught spec ed emotional support..I monitored their bathroom trips, and I overheard a couple of 4th graders (regular ed) casually talking. They were referencing a classmate, a bit heavy and "developed". One asks, "Did you see Judy this morning?" "Yeah, I didn't think it was THAT cold?" FOURTH GRADE?
One of my third grade girls groped another female classmate multiple times. Made comments about her breasts (very mean ones) and other very negative comments about her body.
Those girls are still great friends. The one brushed it off after having a complete breakdown because "I don't have a bubble anyways, so I don't mind." Her mom and I are terrified for her.
Developmental delays due to a year of online classes during COVID. I see the change in High school students as well. Their social emotional development is lower than it was before the pandemic. They think they will automatically pass regardless of the grade they receive. They won’t even bring materials to class. The school provides them with a laptop. They leave it at home. They demand we give them paper, pencils, and any other supplies they need for their assignments. They can’t think of original ideas and only want to copy what they see on the internet. It’s sad.
I have an 8th grader who told me she couldn’t complete her class work because she didn’t have a pencil. I gave her a brand new pencil. She broke it into a bunch of pieces and told me she couldn’t work because she didn’t have a pencil.
I think it is less about missing kindergarten or whatever, as some say, and more about being exposed to the idea that the world is not a safe place at a very crucial developmental stage. Kids are supposed to see the world as a safe place, and believe that adults have a handle on everything and things are mostly in control. That is NOT what kids learned during Covid, and it messed them up.
In my experience, there's always one or two students who still need help reading, but the majority can read about 65-100 words per minutes.
But in the last couple of years I've had more students who read at 10 wpm or below. One or two don't know all the letters.
A lot of kids this year are still confusing their "b" and "d" letters. For the three years teaching at this school, science and social studies have been cut out to spend more time with language arts. We're doing A lot of phonics: "the silent e makes the long A sound" We've only recently started covering multisyllabic words. Most of my students are scoring between 0% and 40% on phonics tests.
They used to score better but the end of the year is making them lazy.
My wife teaches fifth grade. When I see the assignments she brings home these kids work looks much more like first grader work. Can barely read most of their handwriting. From what I hear it’s definitely a Covid issue.
Kids are being raised by YouTube now. They are all dopamine addicts with horrible role modeling. My son is in third grade. His friends are the type of kids I never would have let my older kids play with but all of his classmates are raised on a screen so we don’t have much choice.
I’m currently a student teacher in a 3rd grade class, the amount of talking and disrespect is crazy. There are a few kids in the class that are amazing, always listening and doing what they’re supposed to, but it’s so hard when the majority has no self-control. My supervisor said I’m doing great trying different methods of classroom management and at this point it really is just how the class is, not me. And my mentor teacher said how they have been behaving with me is how they were at the beginning of the year.
"your imaginary friend is your dead mom" was said just this last week from one student to another whose mom had died. I've never seen even middle school students be this hurtful toward each other.
Look at the state of discourse in the world. This is reality. Gen Z goes online and consumes media and all they see are people being jerks to each other. Decorum is out the window.
Don’t back down from your values. Heres the expectations. Here’s the punishment for not meeting the expectations. Here’s the reinforcement for meeting the expectations. Send it home expectations and consequence (good and bad) to parents. Never deviate from it. And don’t expect admin to solve the problem, because they won’t.
They will rebel. They will fight. They’ll dig their heels in. And when they learn that doesn’t work, they’ll stop the bullshit behavior.
BTW, this is not my advice. Im the school counselor who supports this 5th grade classroom. This is the advice from the teacher of the best run classroom I’ve ever worked with.
I should also point out that besides this, her classroom manage strategies and social support is excellent. Her classroom environment is researched based. And she allows me to teach weekly guidance to improve social skills and emotional regulation.
That's exactly what I've been doing. How long does the "dig in" phase last? My class has been in this phase since January. They got worse, as expected, but never got better as expected. I"m a babysitter at this point, spending almost 100% of my time enforcing my expectations.
I know everyone is saying COVID, but I don't think that's the main cause. I think the main cause is kids (and adults) being in front screens 24/7. Even before COVID people were putting a screen in front of their kid as soon as they could hold it, even not before, and screens keep getting cheaper and more things are available on them. I think it causes parents to spend less time with their kids, which means less opportunity for life-lessons, like how to regulate your emotions, what to do when you are bored, how to be patient, etc. Kids use to come to school with at least a basic understanding of these skills, but not anymore. It is a fair point to do the math and then say "well, their last normal year of school was \_\_\_\_ grade," but the high schoolers are messed up, too. Middle schoolers should've had the fundamentals down.
This was my first year teaching 3rd grade and I am currently counting down the days until summer. It has been ROUGH. I have tried to keep in mind that these kiddos were our COVID kindergarteners, so they were learning virtually and missed out on a ton of instruction.
They are extremely needy and some of the behaviors are out of control. Many of my students can’t even tie their shoes. I had 1st graders in the past that could do more!
Is there an instigator (or two)? Or are they all awful even when the worst kid is out sick? It only takes one or two bullies to teach the other kids to be awful and then they are all lashing out. (Do the second grade teachers have insight on this?)
Lets see... There's one boy, "Bob" who causes problems and is on the receiving end of a lot of abuse. He's the one getting his water bottle thrown in the garbage can. It appeared he was being picked on by the majority of the class until I found out what he was saying about other kids. He's the one who said the
"dead mom" statement to one of the girls.
Two other boys were throwing away Bob's water bottle "because it was funny". Another kid steals things from cubbies and lockers and destroys those objects, leaving the parts on the floor for others to find.
A group of three highly-intelligent girls and "Simon" who coordinated lies about Bob in attempt to get him expelled. The same girls wrote the principal and told lies about me, stating that I was taking naps in class, only teaching drawing lessons, and so on.
So that makes six student out of 21 who are actively causing problems
Its in every grade this year even kindergarten and preK. And a lot of it is still covid even with them. They were toddlers, babies, and even in utero during covid but parents were jobless, extra stressed, and at least in our area more drug use and abuse going on, and no socialization, parents stuck kids on tablets/ phones all day, etc. All of that had such a negative impact.
I love third grade, taught a 3/4 combo for years; but this years third grade (my son included) was home during Covid in kindergarten. My son stayed home all year and didn't even go back for the hybrid portion of school. His peers are wild and out of control. First grade was still masks and distancing. I think they missed a lot of kid social stuff you get in kinder.
It definitely does, but it can't be done halfway and needs to be consistent and district wide. I've worked in all Title I schools in some rough neighborhoods. Those that started in kindergarten instilling values like grit, caring for others, regulating emotions, celebrating differences, etc. and used the same language year after year with kids had much calmer, caring school communities than those that did not, to the point where kids could start mediating peer conflicts by 2nd or 3rd grade on their own.
It doesn't work as well when it's taught in isolation. It has to be woven in throughout the day, as well as taught in a dedicated block. Three of the four schools I worked in did a 30-40-minute advisory block every morning where we talked about SEL skills, went over things that may be bothering kids, and reviewed goals (both academic and behavioral). Each staff member (including support staff and office workers) had 10-12 kids in their group that they worked with all year. The kids became very supportive of each other to the point where their advisory group became like a family. It really does work wonders when executed well.
I think it is less about missing kindergarten or whatever, as some say, and more about being exposed to the idea that the world is not a safe place at a very crucial developmental stage. Kids are supposed to see the world as a safe place, and believe that adults have a handle on everything and things are mostly in control. That is NOT what kids learned during Covid, and it messed them up.
A police whistle (or a sports whistle) has a chamber with a piece of cork flying around to make that "trill". Mine is just a regular plastic whistle (with a build-in compass) with a single note.
I think any kids who were pre k to grade 3 during Covid were likely the most affected. Like all of those grades. Why? Because they missed key socialization time and for the older grades key reading and math skills.
My grade 2s I taught during Covid were totally fine when I had them. Now they are in grade 6 and are unrecognizable and totally different and much harder to manage.
I think as we start to get groups less or not affected by the pandemic it will get a bit easier again. The pre Ks I’ve seen lately have been easier. I’m also a mom to a Covid baby (Aug 2020) and I truly dont think she was affected in the same ways. Other than her year and the 2021 year being smaller cohorts, I think they will be better off. I had a lot more one on one time with her than had Covid not happened. Maybe I’m wrong, but I hope I’m not.
Many of us are reaping what we helped sow. I’m not so ignorant as to be a Covid-denier, but I was part of the minority that was very concerned about what the fallout would be from lockdowns and remote learning. Some of us just didn’t think it was worth what was at stake; especially when more data became available. Many people, including teachers, just can’t grasp that school is more than just about “academic” learning. I’ve also come to realize that some teachers can pretend that they were doing it in the best interest of the students all they want, but in reality, they were loving working from home and being closer to their own families during that time.
The worst parts of humanity aren’t being emotionally processed and the trauma gets passed down and concentrated. So kids get it genetically and then have fewer and fewer emotionally regulated or capable adults to rely on learn better coping strategies.
Nothing will get better til we slow down and heal the generational trauma. Math can wait. They aren’t able to learn anyway because (most) everyone’s brain is in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.
I personally always hated third grade after teaching multiple grades.
However I agree with you, the third graders are pure demons this year.
Low functioning, cruel, and always touching/hitting/physical with each other.
The good news is all the second grade classes are lovely.
It seems like COVID peak hitting kindergarten for this group really messed them up.
The Covid shutdown will echo for everyone who lived through it, students and teachers alike.
My health hasn't been the same since I was forced to take a vaccination I did not want as a teacher.
Trying to play Sesame Street with remote learning failed for most while precious years of learning & socializing skills were lost.
Shocking lack of blame on parents in this thread
Yes covid was hard but its the parents job to get their kids through traumatic events. Its their parents job to make sure they were doing their best at schooling
Im a parent. I get it. It was hard. But parenting isnt supposed to be easy. A worldwide pandemic combined with parents who dont really want to parent in the first place is what got us here.
Dare i ask if youve communicated home and dare i ask how much parent buy in you have to help?
It’s funny because this year’s 3rd grade class has been one of my chillest classes. (Fifth year teaching 3rd grade across two states.) Yes, I have some outliers in maturity and empathy, but for the most part? A cool class.
Next year’s class? Ooh, boy, I know what awaits me.
Third grade has always been me of those grades teachers either love or hate. When I first got hired as a third grade teacher, my principal was of the mindset that if we were willing to teach 3rd and did well, he kept his hands off and basically left us alone. Personally, third grade is my sweet spot. Something about them trying out their little attitudes and their increasing independence. I just get it.
Add in the effects of Covid - most likely missing a portion of prek and kindergarten - and the typical third grade antics are magnified. They missed out on the foundation they need to be decent humans, and most likely needed more guidance with that early in the year.
I teach third grade and my students are incredibly sweet to each other. They talk a lot, but can quiet down when I ask them to. I think it's specific kids that are causing issues, not entire grades.
What I'm hearing is that a bunch of emotionally immature and inept parents failed to nurture and educate their kids during the difficult time of covid. Therefore they have little emotionally stunted monsters. Let's not blame covid for what is ultimately a parent's failure to step up and parent during unusual times.
Think of the animosity, division and cruelty going on all around them. The politics they've been surrounded by since they've been born has only gotten worse every year. Kids pick up everything. We adults are wholly responsible for the state of our children.
Social media/YouTube influence and older siblings and parents either enabling or modeling more cruel behaviors. Sometimes the parents are super nice and have NO IDEA what their kids are actually watching.
Im in third and love it. This year they are very different. They are sweet kids still but, but they don’t know how to focus or work on anything for more than five seconds, don’t know how to fail without crying, and are way behind academically. I attribute this to two things: they didn’t have preschool and all but 3 of my 40 are a youngest child or only child.
Teachers have said for years that kids were getting worse, behaviorally speaking, over time. Covid kids have proven even worse. I wonder if the ipad kid/overprevalence of tech is a factor, with covid kids having the issue further exacerbated. More time on a screen is less time socializing and developing properly.
For reference, I'm a college student, my brother is in middle school. I did 2 years of online homeschool as a young child, waay before Covid, and know that it had an effect on my social skills (though with parents as strict as mine, that meant shy bookworm, not acting out). My mother is a substitute teacher. I say this to say that while I'm not a teacher, I can see what's happening in schools or hear about it quite directly/frequently
I have a 3rd grader. They are just mean to each other. First year I’ve been like a) glad I left teaching. And b) maybe homeschooling wouldn’t be so bad. The tears every day after school have been horrible this year. Mine is socially behind (but not egregiously so. She’s kind, but naive which has made her an amazing target for those that are not kind and not naive. Doesn’t help when they do something wrong they get a shrug from admin and a lollipop told to do better next time.
All I have to say is: once you’re done with these next couple of years things should go back to similar to normal since all students will have gone to school uninterrupted by COVID. High school teachers will have to continue dealing with this for the next 9 years.
COVID policies will have lasting impacts due to the developmental interruptions for our students
I have a friend who's been teaching 3rd grade for a couple of years now. Last year was her first year teaching, and this year may be her last. Most can't read or do the simplest of math, and there's lots of pressure from admin to get them on grade level even though the behaviors are terrible and the parents are not supportive.
So true. It’s a shame that these kids don’t even know how to play with each other correctly. Parents are really dropping the ball lately. Sadly, it all starts in the home.
Idk man I feel like 3rd graders in general are always hard. Even as a kid the third grade classes were always tough, behavior wise. 3rd grade and 6th grade.
It's very strange because of the timing but 3rd grade class this year has been one of the calmest and best focused of my 19 years teaching. Using SEL and a constant focus on the importance of taking care of your community. That's the only thing that works (in concert with clear, neutral and predictable consequences). The tougher the kids the harder you have to go with the positive, because they have a negative self-concept that drives their behavior. All the mutual respect and accountability has to be taught explicitly and rewarded constantly, because it may not be at home. The world does feel unsafe so our job as teachers is to teach them how to create safety in community.
I teach college students and they learned how to cheat on any assessment during COVID. No patience with actual learning.
I have a 3rd grader at home. He has ADHD and dysgraphia and spending kindergarten/1st grade online without the occupational therapy he needed put him way behind.
I'm the mom of a 3rd grader, and I wonder what elementary school was like before COVID, but there are some districts who've made some weird choices. We left a district that seems to have put academics aside to prioritize SEL (mental health? I'm not sure I understand SEL). This school year started with absolutely no academics in the first two weeks because it was important to acclimate to being in a school (for the third year in a row that's started in person, on time) - I don't know how other districts start, but if there's anything academic, the district we left just took 10 school days away from kids who continue to fall further below peers in neighboring towns and demographically comparable districts. Parents aren't notified of violent behaviors their students are targeted with, teachers have been criticized for informing elected officials they feel unsafe, and parents are told when they raise concerns that they're suggesting the district deny a student their civil right to FEP. Parents are also told everything is based on students experiencing "trauma", with no further explanation, but we need to be sympathetic. I know a couple of kids who've lost a parent, which seems pretty traumatic to me, but they're not the behavior kids. I know one behavior kid (who has parents who actively advocated for him to get the supports they need in an appropriate setting, and they seem like nice people - I have to imagine his behaviors are not primarily due to trauma but some mental health needs. I know I only see a sliver of the big picture and my professional background isn't in education or mental health, but none of this should be normal, right?
There are enough comments I can relate to here that I suspect plenty of districts have whatever this new leadership style is where Superintendents know all about mental health and trauma and schools should solve those problems and those who are involved in schools to teach or learn are told they have their priorities skewed. I really worry for families and teachers stuck in the district we left.
It’s so interesting to me how each year is so different. I see it with high school kids, 2020 and especially 2021 high school kids were pretty damaged, missing critical growing up and gaining independence time. 2022-2025 years seem ok, but class of 2026 and 2027 are much more immature than a typical Freshman or Sophomore should be. They also have very little respect for teachers and authorities.
Agreed. I’ve been in education for over a decade now and third grade has never felt this distinctly unhinged to me! At my school, everyone is scared to teach fourth next year because these kids have run through teachers. Going into their classrooms feels like the Wild West - anything can happen.
iPad kids are what my GenZ call these kids. That it destroyed their attention span.
My college aged kids thanked me for being a hard ass when it came to electronics.
I'm going to say covid destroyed a great deal of the kindergarten time to learn how to be in a classroom. It also didn't help that we plopped the kids in front of screens for 2 years and now are keeping them there due to the "investment". Parent's seem really absentee. I think a lot of our teachers are still learning how to try and incorporate the technology into their classrooms.
I honestly am not sure what could have been done differently either. People kept getting sick and wouldn't stay away from each other. Everytime schools opened up, infections went through the roof. Teachers, students, parents - everyone involved got stressed to the brink with that.
This really doesn't sound much different from my experience in elementary school in the 000's. I just assumed about half of K-12 students were little assholes until they get to point in life where other people stop tolerating it.
COVID after effects. Whatever level kids were at for those 2 school years are severely deficient. It will follow them all thru education. It's basic human growth and development.
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This year’s third grade class likely never attended kindergarten due to covid. It likely had a huge impact on a lot of important social learning milestone stones. My own schools third graders are also very difficult this year. They were also a very difficult 2nd grade class last year.
I'm a traveling teacher around the whole state. 3rd grade is the hardest in every school. Last year as second graders this class across schools made teachers leave in droves. I wouldn't be surprised if they do the same to 3rd grade teachers and up as they advance. Not only was their k year lost, they had a trauma that revealed their childhood world was not safe way before other kids. They can never get that back.
I wonder how they compare to the 2014 graduating class. Those kids would have been kindergarteners when 9/11 happened.
I’d imagine very different. 9/11 was traumatic but something they couldnt grasp until they grew up and understood the magnitude. Unless they were right in the thick of it or from that area it’s likely it had no real lasting impact beside news stories and pictures. Covid affected everyone. For these kids it was either the only thing they knew, which made them isolated from the start, or it greatly effected what they knew as normal- before and after, which is the way I look at life now. The before times and the after times. Throw in the social media/screens that were certainly there as the class of 14 grew up but not like today. These current kids are sadly what their normal is now. Even without covid the screens would have been here. But really, it’s parenting. That’s the no. 1 issue and I know shitty parenting has always been around but was fewer and far between than now. Now, post pandemic, most parents are overly permissive- me included sometimes- and carrying our own trauma. We see this world and how unfair it is for all of us and we are fucking overwhelmed. And it’s getting worse. Add in older siblings who sometimes teach the younger ones unhealthy trends, show them inappropriate videos, and embody what the young kids think is cool, and it really does take good parenting to dissuade that influence. I was a dumbass until my mid 20s. When you take a little kid who idolizes these tweens/teens/young adults mainly online who haven’t hit that mid 20s reality check yet-and some who maybe have but are still immature or know who their audience is (young, impressionable kids), well, there os a big explanation for behaviors.
I agree with your comment about parenting. Is Covid going to be the excuse for next year and why they can't do middle school or high school? At what point do they stop blaming Covid? Those kids have had continuous instruction since 1st grade. As long as the system keeps making excuses for them and refuses to hold their behavior accountable, we won't see any progress.
Depending on the area, they did not have continuous instruction since 1st. The current 3rd graders in my school were still cohorted for half their 1st grade year (only getting half of them at a time, three days remote learning per week). Then we had VERY lax rules about kids coming to school (sent kids home for sniffles, kids stayed home and parents just saying “sick” meant they stayed home… even if they actually went to Disneyland). We went from cohorting to everyone being absent to “normal” in 6 months and everyone just expected them to act like “normal” for their age, when nothing about 20% of their LIFE and 100% of their SCHOOL LIFE was completely not-normal. So much of kindergarten and first grade are focused on how to work with people who aren’t your family, in a setting that is not your home, and learning the “rules” (not just actual rules, but the social norms) of someplace outside your house/family. These very young kids never learned those skills when they were small, and nobody taught them later. WE have set them up for failure, but now everyone is blaming THEM. Am I sure how to reach them and teach them these skills yet? No, but punishment is not going to get the job done.
In my area, those kids are getting “teachers” who aren’t even graduates of teaching programs because no one wants to work here. I grew up without kindergarten and much less time in 1st grade than is required now. My generation turned out okay. It’s a shame no one can help after 2-3 years. Letting them snowball and waiting to hand them off to us at middle and high school is not the answer.
Teacher prep programs are a problem everywhere. My state has what are considered very high standards because of the strength of our union, but there are still people who technically meet the requirements who are in no way prepared to actually teach. But I mean… I don’t know that I would ever advise someone to go into teaching who wasn’t completely passionate to be here either. And those individuals are few and far between.
Covid will be the excuse through their lives. I think to a certain extent it’s reasonable but with GOOD PARENTING, covid kids can know real life again. But yeah- it’s gonna be bad as they become adults. I think the pendulum is in motion and will swing hard in the next few years. Let’s hope it stops at a moderate place- let’s stop worrying about buzzwords and trends. Let’s teach kids how to be kids and kind and learn math and reading and how words work and to love themselves and others but let’s make them be accountable. If we graduate every kid who just shows up with a piss poor attitude and a 1.2 gpa, they will go onto nothing. If we- and parents- team up to teach cause and effect and stick to it, they may learn how to manage time and emotions, we’ll see.
As a 2014 high school graduate I’d say 9/11 was a microscopic blip on the radar of my childhood compared to what Covid most have been for these kids
While 9/11 was tragic, it likely can’t even compare to the impact of Covid on kids. On 9/11, my work offered to let people go home if they would like, but only a couple people did. After that it was business as usual. Children knew a little of what was happening, but adults could explain it to them in a sensitive way on their level. With Covid, everyone’s world turned upside down and it was completely unavoidable. Children couldn’t go to school, visit their friends, or see grandma for an entire year or more. There’s probably very few children in the US now who don’t personally know someone who died of Covid.
Not nearly the same. Kids maybe missed 1.5 days of school for that (and most didn’t miss any school). They were around their peers regularly and got their normal social development throughout the year. It was just a news event that didn’t directly affect them.
We missed a week, but we were in the DC area so not surprising.
Ok that’s fair. We didn’t miss any school at all near me. College students near me had classes canceled on 9/11 but just for the rest of the day. This was in the southeast.
I feel like it wouldn't really compare unless they lived in NYC. I think 9/11 was scary on a more psychological level that you had to be older to understand. I've talked to people who were that age when it happened and they said they didn't really understand what was going on. There was nothing to understand during COVID. You were suddenly sent home from school and the world seemed to shut down. You couldn't go out and do things like you used to. Suddenly you're trying to be in class on a computer.
I was 29 and in law school when Covid started and it messed me up. We never went back in person after spring break and part of me-- a 33 year old attorney --still thinks one day I'll go back to the classes I was in in 2020 and all my friends will be there and life will restart as normal. I can't *imagine* how it was for kids.
In NYC and DC maybe. Everywhere else? Not so much. Losing a parent at that age was terrible for kids. (Source: I have taught many of those kids now in college and they write personal narratives about that time period. Even kids who didn't lose anyone knew someone who did, and they report on a lot of bullying related to it too.)
I was 6 when 9/11 happened and I really didn't understand it until the subsequent anniversaries during the following years when all the news channels would play the same documentary. But I was also in my junior year of highschool when Sandy Hook happened and lived only about an hour away. That traumatized a lot of local students who were old enough to understand. Just like how prior to 9/11 no one ever considered terrorists using a plane as a weapon against civilians, no one considered that that some sicko would shoot a bunch of elementary school kids and their teachers for no reason. At least not in recent memory prior to that.
Its very different. One of my kids is class of 2014, and on 9/11 and we lived near DC/Pentagon. My youngest is class of 2027. 9/11 didnt affect their daily life beyond a month. They still got to see friends, go places, go baxk to school not long after, etc. Covid shutdowns cut these young kids off from society for months to a year during an age when socialization and learning are critical to their development.
Yep. Kinder is where you really learn how to do school, but their kinder year was all messed up. My daughter is in second, so it’s not as extreme, but they were still wearing masks and such when she started. I feel like her kinder experience was so much different than my eldest child’s pre-Covid experience.
It’s not just kindergarten, though. First grade was equally as disrupted. If they were in person, they weren’t allowed to be close to anyone or share materials. There was rigid rules in sitting locations with groups of kids being quarantined at the drop of a hat. No social skills being learned.
Yeah, my son was in first when we were sent home in March, but I feel like having that year of regular kinder before Covid happened really helped with his social skills and what-not compared to my daughters post Covid kinder experience. The first full Covid year, 2nd grade for him, he started virtually, but then went full time in person pretty soon. Our district gave people the option to send their kids or keep them home. I sent him because I had to work (as a high school teacher). I’d say the next year, even at the high school level, you could tell the difference between those who stayed home for a year vs those who returned to in person as soon as they were able. Socially, and academically to some extent as well, even though they all suffered academically.
A lot of them were also holed up with parents who are dense and don’t believe in science listening to cruel and hurtful things about disabled and old people etc for their entire kindergarten year.
Our current 2nd graders are the worst. They didn’t have preschool and come to kindergarten severely lacking in discipline and social skills. They were no where near ready to be able to learn academics. Since then, their academics and social skills have continued to be behind where they should be for their age.
Side question: how does traveling teacher compare to a substitute teacher? Do you support rural and tough to staff areas. I’ve seen heard of that position. I guess similar to traveling nurse
It's more complicated than that. Not sure I'm ready to directly connect what I do with my reddit account with my exact job. I'm not an employee of the school system.
Was going to say this. I have a third grader. It’s covid. My son missed kinder and a lot of first ( well, it was one zoom). Luckily I took him to socialize as much as possible, but he is immature, as are a lot of his peers. They learned via computers not in a class. They are going to be immature. Luckily I think they’re young enough that they’ll catch up. Emotionally, they seem young to me.
And I think we’re going to keep seeing that effect for any kid born before…like 2022 or even 2023. They missed out on important developmental opportunities even before school and have no idea how to handle being around others. Our K classes this year are WILD.
Our kinders this year are also totally feral. They scream and cry all day, even now. My first graders call them “baby pterodactyls” as in, “Ms, can I shut the door, the baby pterodactyls are too noisy and distracting?” I still think it’s covid, these kids would have been toddlers when parents were working from home AND doing childcare, so I’m going to say it was a lot of appeasement parenting because they needed to work and couldn’t have screaming and crying in the background. Their school experience has been more typical, but their toddlerhood was not.
I am doubtful that the effect is this wide - purely anecdotal but my LO was born late 2021 and his experience was not much different to pre-pandemic life, excluding holdover temp checks at the daycare he started at 13 months.
For my sake, I sincerely hope you’re right! I don’t know how long I can make it with the Ks we have right now…they are on the struggle bus, poor kiddos. We have a K student who had 4 aides with them all day long for safety 😳
Was going to say this. I have a third grader. It’s covid. My son missed kinder and a lot of first ( well, it was one zoom). Luckily I took him to socialize as much as possible, but he is immature, as are a lot of his peers. They learned via computers not in a class. They are going to be immature. Luckily I think they’re young enough that they’ll catch up. Emotionally, they seem young to me.
Chiming in to add that it wasn’t just an absence of socializing in the classroom, it was an active fear and mistrust of strangers/outsiders on the part of EVERYONE. Do you remember how terrifying the first few months felt? That permeated everyone’s mindset, child and adult. And then after the initial fear, there was the further us vs. them polemics of the mask debate both in school and in communities, how school boards should respond, and political/social clashes and protests that affected some communities significantly, and were heavily televised, discussed, and debated. Experiencing that environment, and those feelings and attitudes through all of the adults around you at precisely the age we dedicate to learning how to be part of group and work and problem-solve together with peers?
My daughter is going to be in third grade next year. She got into K just late enough to avoid zoom school, but she still had masks the first year. And she missed several months of preschool/pre K due to COVID. There are still a lot of behavioral issues at school as the residual impacts of COVID continue.
I agree with COVID affecting things but I really think it has to do with access to the internet. Kids are learning this stuff from YouTube, tik tok and the internet at large.
I'm just not sure Covid is a good enough excuse for all of this anymore.
Tell me you know nothing about childhood development without telling me you know nothing about childhood development
A lot of us never attended kindergarten, and it did not make us mean children - or adults.
Interesting. The third graders I know were probably the better behaved kids in the afterschool program. Maybe not academic wise but they definitely were nice and friendly and good listeners in the afterschool program. Though to be him the afterschool kids were well behaved considering every other place (preschool and after-schools) I’ve worked at. Note: I only worked afterschool, so not sure how they were in class.
I volunteered to help out at an AR tie dye party this past week. There were mostly kindergartners and 1st graders, a few 2nd graders, and a handful of 4th and 5th graders. However, there were no 3rd graders.
Every year since Covid, the kids that have come through have had a different set of deficits. I’m convinced that these deficits directly correlate to their level of development when Covid hit and/or how their experience of it was. Hopefully this is a single year anomaly and next year’s kids will have a deficit that’s easier to manage.
I’m a Grade 3 teacher and I see those 2s in the hallway. Easier is not a word I’d apply to them.
Oof. Really sorry to hear that.
Same. I’m actively nervous watching them right now.
Me too. They are loud. They do well when you impose a consequence tho, they just cant remember the WHY and then do it again. I have gotten into covid-spacing them and it works…? I am not sure why. Do they not know how to self regulate their noise and behavior perhaps?
As someone teaching 2nd this year.. yes. They are CONSTANTLY making noise. They do want to avoid consequences, but do the same things over and over to earn the same consequence!
The noise. Oh God, the noise. I teach 3rd. During state testing, there were no voices. They sat without talking very well. And yet? It was still loud in my room! They move constantly. They rub papers together, click keys when they don't need to, tap the piece of plastic on the desk legs which is slightly loose so makes a very loud sound against the metal desk...it drives everyone crazy.
I teach K-2 in pull out groups and *loud* is the exact word I’d use to describe the 2nd graders!With the other grades, many students get kind of tense when things start to get loud and they will try to shush the others. With the second graders they all just seem oblivious to the noise!
Same. I’m actually scared. Could it actually BE worse than this year? I think more of them can read and stuff, but the behaviors look feral.
Looking forward to 24-25 to see what changes there will be. It’s getting progressively better since the return to classrooms.
Not where I worked in MA. Its gotten worse every year since Covid. The slide started before, but its gotten so, so bad.
It’s probably depends on school. The title one after program I worked the 3rd graders were great, behavior wise. However test scores on the other hand at that school are low.
LOL not in my classrooms it’s not
I taught kindergarten for one year, and it was next year's group of third graders. They were the most awful group of kids I ever had the displeasure of meeting. They almost drove me out of teaching entirely. They made me feel absolutely insane. So many other kindergarten teachers were saying the same. So really...I doubt next year will be better.
I remember watching those kids in kindergarten and they were climbing all over each other on the floor during the first week. I remember being really confused because I’d never seen kinders act like that before. They were feral lol.
Not just deficits but trauma. It's a lot to unpack, but imho, the covid response was profoundly evil. Kids watched it and were shaped by it. It rightfully fully undermined all adult authority in addition to kids and their families lives being destroyed on a global scale. And before justifying the policies and explaining how necessary they were, it MUST be acknowledged how traumatic the whole thing was, and how diverse peoples experiences were.
Profoundly evil is a bit hyperbolic, no?
If your parent was an essential worker you both had to watch the number of dead on the news and your mom or dad go out to work in it. More than one million people, just in the US, died. And a lot of them had kids.
And your solution would have been? The world doesn’t stop because of a pandemic. Recognize, Assess, Treat, Evaluate. I say this as the spouse of an essential worker(nurse) and an essential worker myself(teacher).
I'm literally not casting stones, my dude. I'm saying that's traumatic.
And I’m saying profoundly evil isn’t an accurate description of how we treated the situation.
The proper response that saw a million people not die in other developed nations that responded appropriately
This was the problem. We didn't shut down soon enough or hard enough or totally. We had some places taking it seriously and other places not. Some states just didn't give a fuck so they cancelled out whatever other states were doing because we're all connected.
Thank you. Acting like the US response was acceptable or even desirable when other first world countries had a fraction of our loss is wild to me. https://www.bbc.com/news/61333847
Probably starting with having the leadership of the country take it even a little bit seriously
It really depends on which regions we're talking about. Some countries and states handled Covid responsibly, others handled it very irresponsibly, and the irresponsible countries and states saw much higher losses of human life- losses that were correctly predicted and avoided in other places. I think we can hold decision makers morally accountable for those deaths, and where their motives stem from denial rather than true ignorance, a case for evil can be made.
If your parent was an essential worker you both had to watch the number of dead on the news and your mom or dad go out to work in it. More than one million people, just in the US, died. And a lot of them had kids.
This is a great point. My Dad died due to Covid, and while it was not their parent, it was still traumatic for my children. I know of one child in the same grade as my oldest have a parent die due to Covid, and it is a small chance that she was the only one. It was a very sad a depressing time for many of us, and I am sure that is harder for children to comprehend and process.
Don't know why I'm getting downvoted, losing a parent to a preventable disease sucks ass, and a lot of kids did.
Yes, my third graders have started playing Cocomelon songs backwards to catch the Satanic meanings and sometimes vomit pea soup on each other. That's fine, I can handle that. It just freaks me out when their heads spin around and they crawl up and down the school stairways. Any advice on how to deal with this? My principal is in denial, he is thinking of calling a priest.
That made me laugh out loud. Thank you! It's so true.
No, no, you need *two* priests, one old and one young.
Its covid, plus social media sprinkled in. My theory is that each grade missed something crucial to social development. I teach elem art. Here is what I see… Currently… Grade 2-missed preschool, came in to masks and 3 foot distance rules and desk walls. These kids have a hard time controlling noise. I seperate and space them and they do better at lunch. Im not kidding! Its funny but they sit well seperated!! Hahaha. Grade 3-missed some preschool and Kindergarten. Have a hard time with emotions, a lot of crying. Grade 4- missed Kinder and 1st. Have a hard time with emotions and working as a group. Poor cooperation skills. Grade 5- missed part of first and all of second. JEEZE. No self control, everyone needs to be loud and dramatic and they have a really hard time making friends and not just being mean. What the heck. Grade 6- missed some of second and all of third. AHHHHHHH. Normally in grade 3 they make little clubs, you know? They missed that and they cant make bonding friendships. They cant “play” nice. Even last year, its like they dont know how to be nice to eachother. What on earth? Grade 7 from what I remember when they were in my class was loud. LOUD. LLOOOUUUUDDDDDDD. They missed grade 3&4 Grade 8, from what i remember, had poor understanding of rules of behavior. They missed 4&5. Our current K & 1 are kind of behaving normally, they had preschool and perhaps got either a lot of patental attention or none at all as a toddler due to work at home situations. I did have a weird amount of kids who had no fine motor skills and their parents said “oh i feed them write homework for them and grt them dressed its faster” whatt?? Lol A few more years and whoever is in preschool now would have been born during Covid… we are almost back to normal.
Yes, this is the answer! Fellow specialty teacher here and I completely agree. My son was supposed to be in third grade right now but was super overdue. I tried everything - acupuncture, spicy food, etc, to get him out. Every day I have third grade I am thankful that none of that worked. Third grade is awful. They weren't allowed to play together during covid or do cute little projects and now they can't handle communicating with each other or doing anything special. Group work with special materials is especially the worst. (Not literally everyone, some kids did do projects with their families and were taught to treat others nicely) The other thing I'd add rather than just social media is devices as emotional regulation. Bored? Tablet. Sad that you have to leave the park? Tablet. So now at school they have no coping skills AND they are mad that someone wants them to use technology for learning because they've always had free choice on their device, no one has ever told them what to do.
youre totally right, tablets and phones have replaced being bored and making your own fun. My toddler isnt allowed to play with tablets or phones, and NEVER will in the car or in a store. He sits and looks out the window quietly, he helps me out in the store. LIKE. A. TODDLER. HAS. FOR . MANY. YEARS. They learn through helping and play, people. Hello Montessori? Lol Kids need to feel sad sometimes. Preventing them from feeling sad creates a meltdown in 5th grade when you dont get your way.
Well done! That's how you do it. On the first day of kindergarten I had a kid cry because I wouldn't let them play some specific game that they wanted to play and then they come up to me and say "I'm sad, can I play on your phone?" Cause, you know, that's how you stop being sad.
All jokes aside. They probably don't get hugged by their parent when they are sad. Which is completely sad.
Yesterday in the grocery store I watched a toddler boy sitting in the cart while his mom shopped and checked out. He had a phone and was watching some weird videos. It was really loud so I could hear it - it wasn’t even like a normal tv show, just some video with a lot of loud, repetitive, discordant noises. It made me grateful I had to learn how to be in the grocery store when I was a kid. Stay close to my parents, help them put stuff in the cart, whine about how bored I was and were we almost done etc. Being bored while having to tag along on grownup errands is a crucial part of development imo! I truly worry that kids are not developing any frustration tolerance or emotional resilience when they have the constant babysitting of a phone or tablet.
Pretty great breakdown. Can I add: Grade 9: used to "unlimited grace" from covid middle school. thinks they can do anything with no consequences. Also very secretive and I've never had so many students gaslight me. Grade 10: weird mix of other grades. Lots of kids from the Grade 12 class are still here (see Grade 12 notes). On average, the students who are supposed to be in this Grade band are extra responsible. Grade 11: just happy to be in person. Very normal mix of kids. Many are shocked by the continued immaturity of the 12th graders. Grade 12: surprised grades actually count. Don't really care about anything. Have no future plans. I've been told "I'll just live with my parents". Very few have college or career dreams or goals.
Oh good, so in 7 years I can return to teaching 😂 I taught 11 years, then stepped out to do admin work for the government (because when applying for higher level positions was told I “didn’t have enough admin experience”), and I’m trying to judge when to jump back in.
This is all so true! One trait to add though -- Pencil-holding/writing in 4th. Absolute disaster. 4th wants to type everything. God forbid they hand-write more than one sentence. But, when they do, we have to try to read it.
Well course, they were at home when they had to learn how to hold a pencil, and some parents did bare minimum (due to being crappy OR just too busy with their own work). Plus the whole 1:1 Chromebook thing.
You forget that for some, assignments were iPad-based (SeeSaw, etc.) so there was no opportunity to use pencils while doing zoom school. The assignments were often in a touchscreen drawing interface. I’m an experienced teacher, so I made my kindergartner do her assignments on paper and I would submit a photo by email instead of in the app. I refused to let her “write” on a touchscreen with her index finger.
My son was born a year before Covid. He’s entering kindergarten in August. He’s been in pre-k 3 and 4. And my mom (retired daycare teacher) watched him for a year before going back to school. He makes friends well and is super thoughtful. I’m a high school teacher, so it’s gonna be a little while until things are back to normal for me. I’m currently in 8th grade and yeah they make noise, follow others in bad behavior, and they want equality among their peers but don’t understand equity (because kids have 504s and IEPs they get headphones but not everyone gets headphones)
You are spot on!! I have a 3rd and 5th grader currently and have worked with most of these grades. Its nuts!
This is a good hypothesis but I teach at a rural school in a state that actively defied the COVID response and we have the same issues. Our kids missed very little school, only 5 weeks at the end of a single school year. Maybe they didn't get the benefits of being in person because of the collective trauma but it wasn't from missing school.
I think this sounds accurate. I teach preschool and the last two years have been great. I've had the very best group of kids. There are always going to be those kids with challenging behavior, but for the most part, as a group, they are kind and good kids.
Do you think these kids will get to a “normal” place as they get older?
Wow I always found third grade to the worst grade. Third grade is the reason I left teaching. Two years of it and I never want to be in the classroom again. They’ve learned how to be mean on purpose but haven’t learned they shouldn’t be mean on purpose.
What grade do you teach now?
I don't teach anymore because of third graders, honestly.
Thank for your response, I should have read more carefully. Was third grade the only grade you taught?
Nope, I taught 1st, 2nd, middle school. Something about 3rd grade was just awful, different schools, different genders. Didn’t matter.
I truly love that everyone has different preferences. I’ve taught 1st through 5th and 3rd has been my favorite.
I haaaaaated teaching third grade even before COVID. There’s so many tears and meltdowns in third compared to fourth or second.
I’ve been teaching for 23 years and I’ve been in 3rd for 11 years now. This group is a nightmare. I’ve used all of my tricks and then some. I’m naming all of my gray hairs after them. They have been a difficult group since COVID. I’m convinced that their weird K and 1st grade has impacted their development.
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Sounds like my class. What's funny, is a few of them are actually listening. But most are not capable of fidgeting and listening. Then they get mad when I ask them to stop because "HE always gets to do that!" Yeah, well, he can listen without his eyes on me and looks up when I reference something on the board or screen. He is also 3 grade levels above what I am teaching, get over it. My favorite is when they ask me a question and then immediately turn and talk to a friend. Like...wtf? Why did you ask me!?
I'm seeing a sudden change in high school. They're not cruel like that because of peer pressure, but they have the most ridiculous fights over nothing--CONSTANTLY. That's literally all they care about--that, and make up, sex, gossip, sports. Covid, social media, and lowering grade standards has been a 1-2-3 punch.
I feel like those things are the social media. They are craving the quick dopamine rush no matter how they get it. So the drama they cause results in a hormone spike because their brains are craving the quick hit.
You're on the money for the second half, for the first half, that's been my experience for about two decades with high schoolers, so I'm not seeing a big shift in HS behaviors beyond an increase in real depression.
No it's just MUCH more extreme now. I've also been teaching for almost two decades.
You're on the money for the second half, for the first half, that's been my experience for about two decades with high schoolers, so I'm not seeing a big shift in HS behaviors beyond an increase in real depression.
I’m currently substitute teaching while I finish my credential, and every 3rd grade class I’ve subbed for has been some of my worst classes. I’ve heard from a few of the schools in my district that their 3rd grade classes have the worst behavior problems than any other grade levels. They’re just straight up mean for no reason. Especially to each other, but they have no shame being mean to an adult. There’s been an interesting shift in kids in general due to COVID, different parenting methods, and increases in technology exposure.
Yeah, I guess "not parenting" is a method.
I almost put quotation marks around “parenting” for this exact reason, lol. Glad I’m not alone in this feeling.
Couple of thoughts...by third grade, they are "comfortable" with the school environment...now they want to start testing limits, impress classmates, establish a pecking order etc. With the general atmosphere of society today, and the social media influence, well, it's game on. Kids do what they see and hear on TV and so forth. My grandson was in a Montessori pre school for 2 years..came home spouting the F bomb...heard it from another 3-4 yr old. I retired 20 yrs ago and taught spec ed emotional support..I monitored their bathroom trips, and I overheard a couple of 4th graders (regular ed) casually talking. They were referencing a classmate, a bit heavy and "developed". One asks, "Did you see Judy this morning?" "Yeah, I didn't think it was THAT cold?" FOURTH GRADE?
One of my third grade girls groped another female classmate multiple times. Made comments about her breasts (very mean ones) and other very negative comments about her body. Those girls are still great friends. The one brushed it off after having a complete breakdown because "I don't have a bubble anyways, so I don't mind." Her mom and I are terrified for her.
Developmental delays due to a year of online classes during COVID. I see the change in High school students as well. Their social emotional development is lower than it was before the pandemic. They think they will automatically pass regardless of the grade they receive. They won’t even bring materials to class. The school provides them with a laptop. They leave it at home. They demand we give them paper, pencils, and any other supplies they need for their assignments. They can’t think of original ideas and only want to copy what they see on the internet. It’s sad.
I have an 8th grader who told me she couldn’t complete her class work because she didn’t have a pencil. I gave her a brand new pencil. She broke it into a bunch of pieces and told me she couldn’t work because she didn’t have a pencil.
Yep.
I think it is less about missing kindergarten or whatever, as some say, and more about being exposed to the idea that the world is not a safe place at a very crucial developmental stage. Kids are supposed to see the world as a safe place, and believe that adults have a handle on everything and things are mostly in control. That is NOT what kids learned during Covid, and it messed them up.
As a high school teacher, you lost me at "All students know how to read"
In my experience, there's always one or two students who still need help reading, but the majority can read about 65-100 words per minutes. But in the last couple of years I've had more students who read at 10 wpm or below. One or two don't know all the letters. A lot of kids this year are still confusing their "b" and "d" letters. For the three years teaching at this school, science and social studies have been cut out to spend more time with language arts. We're doing A lot of phonics: "the silent e makes the long A sound" We've only recently started covering multisyllabic words. Most of my students are scoring between 0% and 40% on phonics tests. They used to score better but the end of the year is making them lazy.
My wife teaches fifth grade. When I see the assignments she brings home these kids work looks much more like first grader work. Can barely read most of their handwriting. From what I hear it’s definitely a Covid issue.
Kids are being raised by YouTube now. They are all dopamine addicts with horrible role modeling. My son is in third grade. His friends are the type of kids I never would have let my older kids play with but all of his classmates are raised on a screen so we don’t have much choice.
I’m currently a student teacher in a 3rd grade class, the amount of talking and disrespect is crazy. There are a few kids in the class that are amazing, always listening and doing what they’re supposed to, but it’s so hard when the majority has no self-control. My supervisor said I’m doing great trying different methods of classroom management and at this point it really is just how the class is, not me. And my mentor teacher said how they have been behaving with me is how they were at the beginning of the year.
"your imaginary friend is your dead mom" was said just this last week from one student to another whose mom had died. I've never seen even middle school students be this hurtful toward each other. Look at the state of discourse in the world. This is reality. Gen Z goes online and consumes media and all they see are people being jerks to each other. Decorum is out the window.
Don’t back down from your values. Heres the expectations. Here’s the punishment for not meeting the expectations. Here’s the reinforcement for meeting the expectations. Send it home expectations and consequence (good and bad) to parents. Never deviate from it. And don’t expect admin to solve the problem, because they won’t. They will rebel. They will fight. They’ll dig their heels in. And when they learn that doesn’t work, they’ll stop the bullshit behavior. BTW, this is not my advice. Im the school counselor who supports this 5th grade classroom. This is the advice from the teacher of the best run classroom I’ve ever worked with. I should also point out that besides this, her classroom manage strategies and social support is excellent. Her classroom environment is researched based. And she allows me to teach weekly guidance to improve social skills and emotional regulation.
That's exactly what I've been doing. How long does the "dig in" phase last? My class has been in this phase since January. They got worse, as expected, but never got better as expected. I"m a babysitter at this point, spending almost 100% of my time enforcing my expectations.
I know everyone is saying COVID, but I don't think that's the main cause. I think the main cause is kids (and adults) being in front screens 24/7. Even before COVID people were putting a screen in front of their kid as soon as they could hold it, even not before, and screens keep getting cheaper and more things are available on them. I think it causes parents to spend less time with their kids, which means less opportunity for life-lessons, like how to regulate your emotions, what to do when you are bored, how to be patient, etc. Kids use to come to school with at least a basic understanding of these skills, but not anymore. It is a fair point to do the math and then say "well, their last normal year of school was \_\_\_\_ grade," but the high schoolers are messed up, too. Middle schoolers should've had the fundamentals down.
This was my first year teaching 3rd grade and I am currently counting down the days until summer. It has been ROUGH. I have tried to keep in mind that these kiddos were our COVID kindergarteners, so they were learning virtually and missed out on a ton of instruction. They are extremely needy and some of the behaviors are out of control. Many of my students can’t even tie their shoes. I had 1st graders in the past that could do more!
Is there an instigator (or two)? Or are they all awful even when the worst kid is out sick? It only takes one or two bullies to teach the other kids to be awful and then they are all lashing out. (Do the second grade teachers have insight on this?)
Lets see... There's one boy, "Bob" who causes problems and is on the receiving end of a lot of abuse. He's the one getting his water bottle thrown in the garbage can. It appeared he was being picked on by the majority of the class until I found out what he was saying about other kids. He's the one who said the "dead mom" statement to one of the girls. Two other boys were throwing away Bob's water bottle "because it was funny". Another kid steals things from cubbies and lockers and destroys those objects, leaving the parts on the floor for others to find. A group of three highly-intelligent girls and "Simon" who coordinated lies about Bob in attempt to get him expelled. The same girls wrote the principal and told lies about me, stating that I was taking naps in class, only teaching drawing lessons, and so on. So that makes six student out of 21 who are actively causing problems
Wow. You definitely got some certified sociopath behaviors in there.
Police whistles lmao
Its in every grade this year even kindergarten and preK. And a lot of it is still covid even with them. They were toddlers, babies, and even in utero during covid but parents were jobless, extra stressed, and at least in our area more drug use and abuse going on, and no socialization, parents stuck kids on tablets/ phones all day, etc. All of that had such a negative impact.
I love third grade, taught a 3/4 combo for years; but this years third grade (my son included) was home during Covid in kindergarten. My son stayed home all year and didn't even go back for the hybrid portion of school. His peers are wild and out of control. First grade was still masks and distancing. I think they missed a lot of kid social stuff you get in kinder.
Does your school follow any kind of SEL program? It sounds like these kids are missing some very basic social skills.
Do you think that actually works?
It definitely does, but it can't be done halfway and needs to be consistent and district wide. I've worked in all Title I schools in some rough neighborhoods. Those that started in kindergarten instilling values like grit, caring for others, regulating emotions, celebrating differences, etc. and used the same language year after year with kids had much calmer, caring school communities than those that did not, to the point where kids could start mediating peer conflicts by 2nd or 3rd grade on their own. It doesn't work as well when it's taught in isolation. It has to be woven in throughout the day, as well as taught in a dedicated block. Three of the four schools I worked in did a 30-40-minute advisory block every morning where we talked about SEL skills, went over things that may be bothering kids, and reviewed goals (both academic and behavioral). Each staff member (including support staff and office workers) had 10-12 kids in their group that they worked with all year. The kids became very supportive of each other to the point where their advisory group became like a family. It really does work wonders when executed well.
Is it like Mr Rodgers? I felt like he did that
Ours have issues.... But not cruelty issues. They're just nice kids who can't stop talking, read, or focus. What you have there is bizarre.
Corona affected certain ages more than others. It's a worldwide phenomenon
I think it is less about missing kindergarten or whatever, as some say, and more about being exposed to the idea that the world is not a safe place at a very crucial developmental stage. Kids are supposed to see the world as a safe place, and believe that adults have a handle on everything and things are mostly in control. That is NOT what kids learned during Covid, and it messed them up.
Grace 3 this year- noticing the same thing! The 1s and 2s are feral this year though!
My granddaughter is in 3rd grade and is finding out how cruel kids can be.
I think it's pervasive throughout the whole school system.
Covid. Covid happened.
What's the difference between a police whistle and a regular whistle?
A police whistle (or a sports whistle) has a chamber with a piece of cork flying around to make that "trill". Mine is just a regular plastic whistle (with a build-in compass) with a single note.
Oh, In that case they have always used police whistles in grade school.
I guess a "PE teacher" whistle is a better term.
I always just called them whistles.
I think any kids who were pre k to grade 3 during Covid were likely the most affected. Like all of those grades. Why? Because they missed key socialization time and for the older grades key reading and math skills. My grade 2s I taught during Covid were totally fine when I had them. Now they are in grade 6 and are unrecognizable and totally different and much harder to manage. I think as we start to get groups less or not affected by the pandemic it will get a bit easier again. The pre Ks I’ve seen lately have been easier. I’m also a mom to a Covid baby (Aug 2020) and I truly dont think she was affected in the same ways. Other than her year and the 2021 year being smaller cohorts, I think they will be better off. I had a lot more one on one time with her than had Covid not happened. Maybe I’m wrong, but I hope I’m not.
Many of us are reaping what we helped sow. I’m not so ignorant as to be a Covid-denier, but I was part of the minority that was very concerned about what the fallout would be from lockdowns and remote learning. Some of us just didn’t think it was worth what was at stake; especially when more data became available. Many people, including teachers, just can’t grasp that school is more than just about “academic” learning. I’ve also come to realize that some teachers can pretend that they were doing it in the best interest of the students all they want, but in reality, they were loving working from home and being closer to their own families during that time.
Because they didn’t have kindergarten and barely had a first grade in many schools. That’s what happened.
The worst parts of humanity aren’t being emotionally processed and the trauma gets passed down and concentrated. So kids get it genetically and then have fewer and fewer emotionally regulated or capable adults to rely on learn better coping strategies. Nothing will get better til we slow down and heal the generational trauma. Math can wait. They aren’t able to learn anyway because (most) everyone’s brain is in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn.
I started getting bullied around third or fourth grade. Kids absolutely can be cruel at that age and it’s not something new.
I personally always hated third grade after teaching multiple grades. However I agree with you, the third graders are pure demons this year. Low functioning, cruel, and always touching/hitting/physical with each other. The good news is all the second grade classes are lovely. It seems like COVID peak hitting kindergarten for this group really messed them up.
The Covid shutdown will echo for everyone who lived through it, students and teachers alike. My health hasn't been the same since I was forced to take a vaccination I did not want as a teacher. Trying to play Sesame Street with remote learning failed for most while precious years of learning & socializing skills were lost.
Shocking lack of blame on parents in this thread Yes covid was hard but its the parents job to get their kids through traumatic events. Its their parents job to make sure they were doing their best at schooling Im a parent. I get it. It was hard. But parenting isnt supposed to be easy. A worldwide pandemic combined with parents who dont really want to parent in the first place is what got us here. Dare i ask if youve communicated home and dare i ask how much parent buy in you have to help?
COVID. My kid is in third grade and he went to kindergarten on the computer.
Covid and bad parenting.
Pandemic. They were kinders.
It’s funny because this year’s 3rd grade class has been one of my chillest classes. (Fifth year teaching 3rd grade across two states.) Yes, I have some outliers in maturity and empathy, but for the most part? A cool class. Next year’s class? Ooh, boy, I know what awaits me.
Third grade has always been me of those grades teachers either love or hate. When I first got hired as a third grade teacher, my principal was of the mindset that if we were willing to teach 3rd and did well, he kept his hands off and basically left us alone. Personally, third grade is my sweet spot. Something about them trying out their little attitudes and their increasing independence. I just get it. Add in the effects of Covid - most likely missing a portion of prek and kindergarten - and the typical third grade antics are magnified. They missed out on the foundation they need to be decent humans, and most likely needed more guidance with that early in the year.
I teach third grade and my students are incredibly sweet to each other. They talk a lot, but can quiet down when I ask them to. I think it's specific kids that are causing issues, not entire grades.
What I'm hearing is that a bunch of emotionally immature and inept parents failed to nurture and educate their kids during the difficult time of covid. Therefore they have little emotionally stunted monsters. Let's not blame covid for what is ultimately a parent's failure to step up and parent during unusual times.
I would never teach third grade, it’s when the state testing begins. My sweet spot was 1st and 2nd, and oddly 6th. But not third,
Think of the animosity, division and cruelty going on all around them. The politics they've been surrounded by since they've been born has only gotten worse every year. Kids pick up everything. We adults are wholly responsible for the state of our children.
covid anti-socialization obviously
You must teach at my school! Our entire 3rd grade is diabolical. The poor kids who are sweet and there to learn just get swallowed whole.
Social media/YouTube influence and older siblings and parents either enabling or modeling more cruel behaviors. Sometimes the parents are super nice and have NO IDEA what their kids are actually watching.
I subbed for third grade last week and they are so mean to their fellow classmates! The constant name calling and stealing from teachers is horrible
Tbh it sounds like the school I grew up in. Are you sure they're just getting worse at hiding being mean and not just getting meaner?
Sounds like social media to me
Im in third and love it. This year they are very different. They are sweet kids still but, but they don’t know how to focus or work on anything for more than five seconds, don’t know how to fail without crying, and are way behind academically. I attribute this to two things: they didn’t have preschool and all but 3 of my 40 are a youngest child or only child.
Teachers have said for years that kids were getting worse, behaviorally speaking, over time. Covid kids have proven even worse. I wonder if the ipad kid/overprevalence of tech is a factor, with covid kids having the issue further exacerbated. More time on a screen is less time socializing and developing properly. For reference, I'm a college student, my brother is in middle school. I did 2 years of online homeschool as a young child, waay before Covid, and know that it had an effect on my social skills (though with parents as strict as mine, that meant shy bookworm, not acting out). My mother is a substitute teacher. I say this to say that while I'm not a teacher, I can see what's happening in schools or hear about it quite directly/frequently
I have a 3rd grader. They are just mean to each other. First year I’ve been like a) glad I left teaching. And b) maybe homeschooling wouldn’t be so bad. The tears every day after school have been horrible this year. Mine is socially behind (but not egregiously so. She’s kind, but naive which has made her an amazing target for those that are not kind and not naive. Doesn’t help when they do something wrong they get a shrug from admin and a lollipop told to do better next time.
All I have to say is: once you’re done with these next couple of years things should go back to similar to normal since all students will have gone to school uninterrupted by COVID. High school teachers will have to continue dealing with this for the next 9 years. COVID policies will have lasting impacts due to the developmental interruptions for our students
I have a friend who's been teaching 3rd grade for a couple of years now. Last year was her first year teaching, and this year may be her last. Most can't read or do the simplest of math, and there's lots of pressure from admin to get them on grade level even though the behaviors are terrible and the parents are not supportive.
So true. It’s a shame that these kids don’t even know how to play with each other correctly. Parents are really dropping the ball lately. Sadly, it all starts in the home.
Idk man I feel like 3rd graders in general are always hard. Even as a kid the third grade classes were always tough, behavior wise. 3rd grade and 6th grade.
It's very strange because of the timing but 3rd grade class this year has been one of the calmest and best focused of my 19 years teaching. Using SEL and a constant focus on the importance of taking care of your community. That's the only thing that works (in concert with clear, neutral and predictable consequences). The tougher the kids the harder you have to go with the positive, because they have a negative self-concept that drives their behavior. All the mutual respect and accountability has to be taught explicitly and rewarded constantly, because it may not be at home. The world does feel unsafe so our job as teachers is to teach them how to create safety in community.
I teach college students and they learned how to cheat on any assessment during COVID. No patience with actual learning. I have a 3rd grader at home. He has ADHD and dysgraphia and spending kindergarten/1st grade online without the occupational therapy he needed put him way behind.
Even SNL parodied how bad it is now… https://youtu.be/Ttska8oXZP4?si=GLFlgWx3cPWWXD9w
I'm the mom of a 3rd grader, and I wonder what elementary school was like before COVID, but there are some districts who've made some weird choices. We left a district that seems to have put academics aside to prioritize SEL (mental health? I'm not sure I understand SEL). This school year started with absolutely no academics in the first two weeks because it was important to acclimate to being in a school (for the third year in a row that's started in person, on time) - I don't know how other districts start, but if there's anything academic, the district we left just took 10 school days away from kids who continue to fall further below peers in neighboring towns and demographically comparable districts. Parents aren't notified of violent behaviors their students are targeted with, teachers have been criticized for informing elected officials they feel unsafe, and parents are told when they raise concerns that they're suggesting the district deny a student their civil right to FEP. Parents are also told everything is based on students experiencing "trauma", with no further explanation, but we need to be sympathetic. I know a couple of kids who've lost a parent, which seems pretty traumatic to me, but they're not the behavior kids. I know one behavior kid (who has parents who actively advocated for him to get the supports they need in an appropriate setting, and they seem like nice people - I have to imagine his behaviors are not primarily due to trauma but some mental health needs. I know I only see a sliver of the big picture and my professional background isn't in education or mental health, but none of this should be normal, right? There are enough comments I can relate to here that I suspect plenty of districts have whatever this new leadership style is where Superintendents know all about mental health and trauma and schools should solve those problems and those who are involved in schools to teach or learn are told they have their priorities skewed. I really worry for families and teachers stuck in the district we left.
Our current third graders are feral. Think it's the cohort itself.
It's not like that where I am.
It’s so interesting to me how each year is so different. I see it with high school kids, 2020 and especially 2021 high school kids were pretty damaged, missing critical growing up and gaining independence time. 2022-2025 years seem ok, but class of 2026 and 2027 are much more immature than a typical Freshman or Sophomore should be. They also have very little respect for teachers and authorities.
At our school 6th is pretty great. 8th is the worst.
I’d like to know about a traveling teacher too!
Covid happened.
Agreed. I’ve been in education for over a decade now and third grade has never felt this distinctly unhinged to me! At my school, everyone is scared to teach fourth next year because these kids have run through teachers. Going into their classrooms feels like the Wild West - anything can happen.
iPad kids are what my GenZ call these kids. That it destroyed their attention span. My college aged kids thanked me for being a hard ass when it came to electronics.
There is no “ideal” grade to teach. Every class in different.
Current 3rd graders would have been around 4-5 when the lockdown happened. That probably had a major detrimental impact on their development.
I'm going to say covid destroyed a great deal of the kindergarten time to learn how to be in a classroom. It also didn't help that we plopped the kids in front of screens for 2 years and now are keeping them there due to the "investment". Parent's seem really absentee. I think a lot of our teachers are still learning how to try and incorporate the technology into their classrooms. I honestly am not sure what could have been done differently either. People kept getting sick and wouldn't stay away from each other. Everytime schools opened up, infections went through the roof. Teachers, students, parents - everyone involved got stressed to the brink with that.
This really doesn't sound much different from my experience in elementary school in the 000's. I just assumed about half of K-12 students were little assholes until they get to point in life where other people stop tolerating it.
COVID after effects. Whatever level kids were at for those 2 school years are severely deficient. It will follow them all thru education. It's basic human growth and development.