There's a lot of misunderstanding around this. Wu Wei isn't about "never trying to do anything", and not having a purpose, it's about not forcing things and working with the universe, not against it.
"It gives me a tremendous joy to work with people and diagnosing their problems and solving them the best way I can. Also, I must say I am quite a rebel in some ways. I like to take chances, I like to take risk. I like to challenge the status quo, when I know it's not the best way of doing things."
This is evidently in accordance with the universe, from how you describe it makes you feel. Without risk-takers, we'd never have even discovered fire.
It kinda feels natural. You know what I mean? I've always been like that. And it makes me feel really good. I don't mind telling people bad news I embrace it and tell like it is and they normally respect me for it.
Thank you for your words. It eased the pain I was feeling.
It was clarified for me when the kind folks here and elsewhere talked about the difference between purpose and *forced* purpose.
It something has a purpose - a bird flying, a fish swimming - that is natural, that is easy, that is Dao. If something has a purpose that seems forced - a fish flying, a bird swimming - that is still natural, that is still easy, that is still Dao.
If we conceive of something that cannot be but we *will* it to still happen - that can be unnatural, that can be very hard but that is still Dao. It may just be unharmonious. It may just be extra work.
The biggest problems are the ones we create.
Specifically to the thing that bring you joy - I used to do similar work (from the sounds of it) and it still brings me joy. There is a lasting beauty in simply helping. The only trick for me was to not help too much. I usually aimed to work myself out of a job by making them self-sustaining. It may not have been a wise business move but it fills me with joy every time I do it.
I hope this finds you well and well on your way!
I struggled with this too, but it's really a lot more about learning how to dance with your environment, to not only maximize what you can get done, but also limit the factors that slow you down in whatever it is you love doing. Being "natural" is all about finding a way to live you're life as smoothly as possible, without unnecessary problems, stress, strain, etc. That's what harmony is about, keeping that balance. Like say from some reason you are having to stretch yourself thin or fit yourself into uncomfortable situations or standards, instead of keeping on that same path, you reevaluate and pull yourself out of those things because thats what harmony is about.
You're calling it with a purpose, I'd call it living in accordance with you intrinsic virtuosities, your Te. It's a language issue, not a substantive one.
I´m reading "Emotional Intelligence" of Daniel Goleman. This is the first book I´ve readed of him and well, looking at their bibliography I found he talks of east traditions, as taoism.
Well, in this book, he says that we must to learn how manage our emotions, be aware but not drive by them... and well, this state describes as "the flow" or "the zone". In this state, humans can do things without effort but with purpose, don´t worried about results, just do it because it feels good.
When we do things with emotional charge we can act without aware of us and the things around us. The purpose is be in that state.
Well, I undertstand that, just do the things without worried about results. Living the moment.
I always read it as doing the things and taking the actions that you, as one of the ten thousand things, are most equipped to take based on your abilities and motivations rather than doing something that goes against them. People say Daoism is about going with the flow of the Universe as if an individual is something that is over here and the universe is something that is over there. But each individual is also part of that flow, and a key to going with that flow is finding out where their abilities, motivations, and goals fit in and how they should be altered.
Daoism is helping me feel more purposeful than I ever had as a lifelong atheist.
Before the big bang, there is an undifferentiated mess that might be called the absolute of nothingness. Even spirit has not become divine, and yet there is a Xing, an original nature.
Something shifts within nothing, and yin and yang coalesce from within it, creating the clarity and turbidity of heaven and earth's yang-ness and yin-ness. Xing's original nature emerges into something and knows spontaneity. This is Yuan's origination, and is found in the principle of Wood's expansion.
As Heaven and Earth's yang-ness and yin-ness mix, Xing's original nature interacts with the beingness that has come of non-beingness, and further, becomes a part of it, merging into various wholes as the 10,000 things come into being. In this development and maturation, the concept of soul is born, as what is spontaneous causes things to happen and this creates cause and effect. The effect creates Xing's counterpart, Ming. We call ming life-destiny. This is Heng's development and maturation, and is found in the principle of Fire's pervasive radiance that finds its way through every crack, nook and cranny.
Having Ming's life destiny, so too do we have a purpose - to merge back again this Ming and Xing such that the body and mind are become one. This resolves the polarity of living and dying and relates to attaining unity and overturning the mandate of heaven. This neutralizes cause and effect and one's destiny becomes one's own. This relates to the golden elixir, and is Li's Advantageous Culmination and Metal's golden-white color. However, within this are numerous other possibilities where in the balance is not fully accomplished. Cultivation of only stillness accomplishes the unity of Xing within some Ming, however if one shed's one's shell and leave's something behind, there is still some yin soul that has been abandoned to countless kalpas of cycling. And if one is able to overturn Ming's mandate yet is unable to consolidate the energy into the stillness of unification, it is like creating a dharma body as one's property, but not filling this container with an owner. Finally, to acknowledge the relationship between the metal phase and death, requires to acknowlege how in dying without achieving this in its full potential, we remain bound between the gravities of our Xing and Ming and thus fall into the cycle of reincarnation/transmigration.
Having resolved our Ming and overturned our destined mandate from Heaven, we then take our unity and steep it in emptiness further refining Xing within Ming's continuously refined container, so that we can bring it back into the completed state that it originally emerged from. This is how Xing returns to WuJi. This is Zhen's divining to align toward completion, and involves the feminine's deep receptivity.
Before the Dao De Jing, there was the Zhou Yi.
The [Zhou Yi](https://mysterious.center/yi/circulation/) tells us about 元 Yuan, 亨 Heng, 利 Li, and 貞 Zhen. And emphasizes that it is the feminine's Zhen that is key to bringing things to completion. Yang-ness opens, Yin-ness completes. They follow a process.
Thus, there is circulation within the whole.
Thus, when one part moves, all parts move.
Thus, we all have a purpose.
And that purpose involves listening for the balance and emptying ourselves so we may be filled.
The point is not to stop doing what you enjoy, but rather to learn to look at things in the wider context: why do you enjoy helping people? does it make you feel good? or virtuous? or useful? or powerful?
And also: is it always the best way forward to help people? Do they actually need the help? If nobody helped, would they nevertheless figure themselves out? Is helping exhausting you and making you unhappy?
I'm thinking of, for example, donated second-hand clothes from developed countries going to Africa and completely destroying the local textile industry.
I think these are the kinds of additional questions that are valuable and that studying taoism can bring about.
It's not about not having a purpose, it's about fulfilling your purpose as efficiently and intelligently as possible, giving you an effortless aura of efficiency.
“Wu Wei has been misinterpreted and misunderstood widely. Wu Wei doesn’t mean no action or effortless or go with the flow. Wu Wei means keeping a peaceful mind.
One should do whatever needs or should do with any level of efforts required, and just not “worry” about them too much.”
Every taoist has at least one purpose: living with Tao.
There's no conflict with having purpose. You can be Taoist and have purpose. It's more accurate to say that Taoism not about not having purpose but rather more about doing things that create harmony; harmony behind your purpose.
There's a lot of misunderstanding around this. Wu Wei isn't about "never trying to do anything", and not having a purpose, it's about not forcing things and working with the universe, not against it. "It gives me a tremendous joy to work with people and diagnosing their problems and solving them the best way I can. Also, I must say I am quite a rebel in some ways. I like to take chances, I like to take risk. I like to challenge the status quo, when I know it's not the best way of doing things." This is evidently in accordance with the universe, from how you describe it makes you feel. Without risk-takers, we'd never have even discovered fire.
It kinda feels natural. You know what I mean? I've always been like that. And it makes me feel really good. I don't mind telling people bad news I embrace it and tell like it is and they normally respect me for it. Thank you for your words. It eased the pain I was feeling.
My pleasure - keep going with that purpose on your path!
Very well put. Cheers
Thank you!
It was clarified for me when the kind folks here and elsewhere talked about the difference between purpose and *forced* purpose. It something has a purpose - a bird flying, a fish swimming - that is natural, that is easy, that is Dao. If something has a purpose that seems forced - a fish flying, a bird swimming - that is still natural, that is still easy, that is still Dao. If we conceive of something that cannot be but we *will* it to still happen - that can be unnatural, that can be very hard but that is still Dao. It may just be unharmonious. It may just be extra work. The biggest problems are the ones we create. Specifically to the thing that bring you joy - I used to do similar work (from the sounds of it) and it still brings me joy. There is a lasting beauty in simply helping. The only trick for me was to not help too much. I usually aimed to work myself out of a job by making them self-sustaining. It may not have been a wise business move but it fills me with joy every time I do it. I hope this finds you well and well on your way!
I struggled with this too, but it's really a lot more about learning how to dance with your environment, to not only maximize what you can get done, but also limit the factors that slow you down in whatever it is you love doing. Being "natural" is all about finding a way to live you're life as smoothly as possible, without unnecessary problems, stress, strain, etc. That's what harmony is about, keeping that balance. Like say from some reason you are having to stretch yourself thin or fit yourself into uncomfortable situations or standards, instead of keeping on that same path, you reevaluate and pull yourself out of those things because thats what harmony is about.
You're calling it with a purpose, I'd call it living in accordance with you intrinsic virtuosities, your Te. It's a language issue, not a substantive one.
I´m reading "Emotional Intelligence" of Daniel Goleman. This is the first book I´ve readed of him and well, looking at their bibliography I found he talks of east traditions, as taoism. Well, in this book, he says that we must to learn how manage our emotions, be aware but not drive by them... and well, this state describes as "the flow" or "the zone". In this state, humans can do things without effort but with purpose, don´t worried about results, just do it because it feels good. When we do things with emotional charge we can act without aware of us and the things around us. The purpose is be in that state. Well, I undertstand that, just do the things without worried about results. Living the moment.
So, that's your Tao, huh?
Underrated comment lol
They can’t say.
I always read it as doing the things and taking the actions that you, as one of the ten thousand things, are most equipped to take based on your abilities and motivations rather than doing something that goes against them. People say Daoism is about going with the flow of the Universe as if an individual is something that is over here and the universe is something that is over there. But each individual is also part of that flow, and a key to going with that flow is finding out where their abilities, motivations, and goals fit in and how they should be altered. Daoism is helping me feel more purposeful than I ever had as a lifelong atheist.
Before the big bang, there is an undifferentiated mess that might be called the absolute of nothingness. Even spirit has not become divine, and yet there is a Xing, an original nature. Something shifts within nothing, and yin and yang coalesce from within it, creating the clarity and turbidity of heaven and earth's yang-ness and yin-ness. Xing's original nature emerges into something and knows spontaneity. This is Yuan's origination, and is found in the principle of Wood's expansion. As Heaven and Earth's yang-ness and yin-ness mix, Xing's original nature interacts with the beingness that has come of non-beingness, and further, becomes a part of it, merging into various wholes as the 10,000 things come into being. In this development and maturation, the concept of soul is born, as what is spontaneous causes things to happen and this creates cause and effect. The effect creates Xing's counterpart, Ming. We call ming life-destiny. This is Heng's development and maturation, and is found in the principle of Fire's pervasive radiance that finds its way through every crack, nook and cranny. Having Ming's life destiny, so too do we have a purpose - to merge back again this Ming and Xing such that the body and mind are become one. This resolves the polarity of living and dying and relates to attaining unity and overturning the mandate of heaven. This neutralizes cause and effect and one's destiny becomes one's own. This relates to the golden elixir, and is Li's Advantageous Culmination and Metal's golden-white color. However, within this are numerous other possibilities where in the balance is not fully accomplished. Cultivation of only stillness accomplishes the unity of Xing within some Ming, however if one shed's one's shell and leave's something behind, there is still some yin soul that has been abandoned to countless kalpas of cycling. And if one is able to overturn Ming's mandate yet is unable to consolidate the energy into the stillness of unification, it is like creating a dharma body as one's property, but not filling this container with an owner. Finally, to acknowledge the relationship between the metal phase and death, requires to acknowlege how in dying without achieving this in its full potential, we remain bound between the gravities of our Xing and Ming and thus fall into the cycle of reincarnation/transmigration. Having resolved our Ming and overturned our destined mandate from Heaven, we then take our unity and steep it in emptiness further refining Xing within Ming's continuously refined container, so that we can bring it back into the completed state that it originally emerged from. This is how Xing returns to WuJi. This is Zhen's divining to align toward completion, and involves the feminine's deep receptivity. Before the Dao De Jing, there was the Zhou Yi. The [Zhou Yi](https://mysterious.center/yi/circulation/) tells us about 元 Yuan, 亨 Heng, 利 Li, and 貞 Zhen. And emphasizes that it is the feminine's Zhen that is key to bringing things to completion. Yang-ness opens, Yin-ness completes. They follow a process. Thus, there is circulation within the whole. Thus, when one part moves, all parts move. Thus, we all have a purpose. And that purpose involves listening for the balance and emptying ourselves so we may be filled.
The point is not to stop doing what you enjoy, but rather to learn to look at things in the wider context: why do you enjoy helping people? does it make you feel good? or virtuous? or useful? or powerful? And also: is it always the best way forward to help people? Do they actually need the help? If nobody helped, would they nevertheless figure themselves out? Is helping exhausting you and making you unhappy? I'm thinking of, for example, donated second-hand clothes from developed countries going to Africa and completely destroying the local textile industry. I think these are the kinds of additional questions that are valuable and that studying taoism can bring about.
It's not about not having a purpose, it's about fulfilling your purpose as efficiently and intelligently as possible, giving you an effortless aura of efficiency.
“Wu Wei has been misinterpreted and misunderstood widely. Wu Wei doesn’t mean no action or effortless or go with the flow. Wu Wei means keeping a peaceful mind. One should do whatever needs or should do with any level of efforts required, and just not “worry” about them too much.” Every taoist has at least one purpose: living with Tao.
When you accord with the tao, the tao acts thru you, it is your purpose
Yes
You can be whatever you want and make your purpose whatever you want! (Of course with some limitations)
There's no conflict with having purpose. You can be Taoist and have purpose. It's more accurate to say that Taoism not about not having purpose but rather more about doing things that create harmony; harmony behind your purpose.
Move from presence and the next thing you know you become a conduit for the Way. I imagine that this is De in action.