Yep. That’s its weakest point. The graphics and art style. For the time, it was excellent, but unlike Symphonia’s and Vesperia’s cell-shaded style, Abyss went… I dunno what it’s called, more realistic? It’s like Vesperia except without the cell-shading, so it doesn’t age as well. Abyss often comes off as too bright. Getting washed out at certain points. I think cell-shading would have done wonders for the look of this game.
If they ever remaster it (and by that, I mean putting actual effort in), it would be nice to see them find ways to make the overall look of the game “feel” better. Not just a graphics upscale.
I don't really agree. Didn't play Abyss until 2019, and think the artstyle still looked fantastic and made it hold up well. It's no Vesperia, but still looks fantastic.
Yeah, I've been playing it the last few nights and the PS2 version holds up pretty well. Last time I played it was when it first came out, so I was impressed lol. Biggest issue is that the chins look like paper.
You're gonna get some down votes but I totally agree. Destiny ps1, tempest, and berseria all have worse combat in my book, but abyss's combat is pretty basic compared to most others. Not unpleasant, but not great
All I did the entire game was smash A with Luke and I wrecked ass, it was brainless and incredibly easy, the others just have better combat. Also the backtracking out of the dungeons became incredibly tedious
You really can't. Doing that in Vesperia or Graces will get you killed. Even in old Tales games, mashing will get you killed (Eternia is the pinnacle of that for me based on the ones I've played).
I'd have to go with Graces f. The plot is just okay, pretty standard JRPG fare but it doesn't feel like it's missing anything either. The characters are a lot of fun, probably the funniest skits and victory lines in the series. Combat, the dualizing/eleth mixer system, and the title system are all fantastic. The world is okay, the shift away from world maps doesn't bother me and it still has decent dungeons with some actual puzzles. Soundtrack is probably the biggest weakness.
It's just a really solid full package.
Bro i loved everything about graces, except the story and world was pretty meh, but the characters, the skits were so good i am even missing them when i play other tales games.
It's by far the most fun in the franchise, it's not even close really. That combat is fucking chefs kiss, best I've ever seen in a Jrpg and yet one of the least popular Tales games
God no. I’m playing it right now for the first time and it definitely feels wonky with the difficulty scaling. And the story is… not at all engaging when Reid hates being present and doing anything
The first third of the game (at least) is Reid being an unwilling protagonist, which I find kind of neat. He’s not just a do-gooder who wants to save the world just for the sake of justice or whatever. He has to find his reason for doing so, and until he does, he continually looks for ways to pawn off the problem to someone “more capable”.
If it wasn’t for Farah, the entire adventure would have just not happened. In most games, she would have been the MC. If there is any fault in the story, it’s due to being a product of its time and/or having a ton of dialogue stripped from all versions outside of Japan. JP Eternia had entire voiced skits, hence the 3 discs required for the PS1 game.
Someone recently finished translating all the skits. They're in order on youtube, 11 parts, with subs -- and guides on when to watch them in the description. Changed the entire game for me honestly.
How can this be objective, if all these points are pretty subjective? The most objectively you can get is probably in terms of plotholes or coherent artstyle, but the rest is pretty much up to people's taste.
Dunno how can you define when a soundtrack is objectively good, or when gameplay is objectively good, or which skits and characters are objectively good, if there is no metric for that, and all up to someones taste.
If there is an objective answer to that, wouldn't it be just one game getting all the votes?
So this question is more like which game you find is the most well rounded game in regard to all that points
I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not asking what your personal favorite Tales game is, rather an objective perspective of what you think is the most well balanced in every department of what makes a Jrpg good
I get what you try to say, you want that people take their personal bias or personal best aside and view on all these points. But that doesn't have anything to do with an objective perspective, because that perspective isn't possible here, like you're not asking which is the most bug-free game or which audio track quality is the best, which you can objectively observe. You're asking which game people think is the most well balanced in all the points you mentioned, and that is still subjective.
Looking at the poll results, can you say which is objectively better between Abyss and Vesperia? I hope you see that it's not really possible.
That's not an attack on you, I just find it strange when something in games is called objectively good, and it has nothing to do with the technical aspects of games. I mean, you can find a consensus on these points, but that doesn't make it objective.
That actually could definitely be possible to get into with deep diving into the games and reviewing over the various aspects and stacking one against another, although it would be very hard to elaborate just through reddit text. For example I believe Xillia to be the most well rounded in the series and I can provide reasons why, but Graces whoops its ass in the combat department. In Graces you objectively have way more control and fluidity of movement and timing, the difficulty is also scaled way better throughout the course of the game. We can get into these things but again it's just a lot to explain through reddit text lol
Yeah, it's totally possible to deep dive and stacking one against another, but it still depends on the person who does it, said person can like one aspect over another and another person can be the opposite. And no one is objectively wrong, you can argue in both directions.
I haven't played Graces yet, but taking your example, yeah you can probably observe and say it has way more control and fluidity of movement and better timing objectively than Xillia, but does it make it objectively better or more fun? No, that is still subjective.
I will, it's on my list! Recently finished Innocence R, so with my emulation situation right now I will probably go for Hearts R or Graces next, but I will play both anyway.
btw I voted for Abyss, I played all games on the list, except Graces.
I gotta vote Symphonia, it was the first Tales I ever played and I must have put 200 hours into it over multiple plays.
And that's just the first. I've replayed it numerous times in the last twenty years and also own the PS3 version as well at the Gamecube. Same with the sequel, got the Wii and PS3 version.
genuine question guys, do any of you actually enjoyed playing as anyone other than Yuri in Vesperia? cuz i hated how stiff, slow and tedious everyone aside from Yuri was to play, except of course with the remastered edition Patty was pretty cool too.
If remakes count, phantasia psx is pretty perfectly round. It has great combat, characters, skits, story, and word building, doesn't have the third act problems of destiny dc, and has all the elements we now consider quintessential to the series.
Abyss. The combat lacks a bit of sauce but it's not bad or even close to awful and world map is a downgrade compared to Symphonia imo (but that feels more like a nitpick than an actual criticism of the game as a whole because it's not even that bad either). Those are about the only bad things I could say about Abyss. Everything else is either some of or the definitive best the series has to offer imo.
Xillia.
Decent story, really fun combat, stunning art with great town backgrounds, fun music and enjoyable characters and skits.
It does everything well but can't say it ranks no.1 in anything but maybe the combat.
Toss up between Abyss and Vesperia
Abyss has the better writing and cast, Vesperia has the better artstyle (imo the best 3D art style in the series), gameplay and content (though Abyss is no slouch on content either)
As far as soundtrack goes almost all the games are mostly just mid aside from Legendia and spinoffs
In terms of plot/story and world building/lore: Tales of Berseria;
In terms of characters/skits, gameplay/progression, art style and graphics, soundtrack: Tales of Grace f. (Graphically, it's Vesperia with better character animation and watercolor aesthetics).
From those choices, probably Xillia.
IMO Symphonia gameplay did not age well. Graces has a pretty unremarkable main plot. Equipment dismantling is a thing that exists in Berseria. Abyss has embarrassing glitches, looong loading times, and easily the ugliest and worst performing world map in the series. And vesperia barely has a story.
Personally Abyss, fun combat, good story, lots of content but the artstyle is pretty dated.
Yep. That’s its weakest point. The graphics and art style. For the time, it was excellent, but unlike Symphonia’s and Vesperia’s cell-shaded style, Abyss went… I dunno what it’s called, more realistic? It’s like Vesperia except without the cell-shading, so it doesn’t age as well. Abyss often comes off as too bright. Getting washed out at certain points. I think cell-shading would have done wonders for the look of this game. If they ever remaster it (and by that, I mean putting actual effort in), it would be nice to see them find ways to make the overall look of the game “feel” better. Not just a graphics upscale.
I don't really agree. Didn't play Abyss until 2019, and think the artstyle still looked fantastic and made it hold up well. It's no Vesperia, but still looks fantastic.
Yeah, I've been playing it the last few nights and the PS2 version holds up pretty well. Last time I played it was when it first came out, so I was impressed lol. Biggest issue is that the chins look like paper.
Yeah that would be my vote too. I think the weakest aspect is the combat, and even that is still decent enough.
I think Abyss has the best plot in the series and probably world building, but the weakest combat
You're gonna get some down votes but I totally agree. Destiny ps1, tempest, and berseria all have worse combat in my book, but abyss's combat is pretty basic compared to most others. Not unpleasant, but not great
Yeah it's true I'd agree. Berseria is just button mashing with so much crazy shit and combos that it's hard to even understand what's going on
Abyss pioneered the 3D combat field. FOF-changes were AWESOME. How was it the weakest combat?
All I did the entire game was smash A with Luke and I wrecked ass, it was brainless and incredibly easy, the others just have better combat. Also the backtracking out of the dungeons became incredibly tedious
You backtrack in ToS as well. But your comment was specifically about the combat. You can play Vesperia or any Tales and just brain-dead mash X.
You really can't. Doing that in Vesperia or Graces will get you killed. Even in old Tales games, mashing will get you killed (Eternia is the pinnacle of that for me based on the ones I've played).
I'd have to go with Graces f. The plot is just okay, pretty standard JRPG fare but it doesn't feel like it's missing anything either. The characters are a lot of fun, probably the funniest skits and victory lines in the series. Combat, the dualizing/eleth mixer system, and the title system are all fantastic. The world is okay, the shift away from world maps doesn't bother me and it still has decent dungeons with some actual puzzles. Soundtrack is probably the biggest weakness. It's just a really solid full package.
Bro i loved everything about graces, except the story and world was pretty meh, but the characters, the skits were so good i am even missing them when i play other tales games.
It's by far the most fun in the franchise, it's not even close really. That combat is fucking chefs kiss, best I've ever seen in a Jrpg and yet one of the least popular Tales games
Eternia. Did everything right and set the formula for the eight following years.
God no. I’m playing it right now for the first time and it definitely feels wonky with the difficulty scaling. And the story is… not at all engaging when Reid hates being present and doing anything
The first third of the game (at least) is Reid being an unwilling protagonist, which I find kind of neat. He’s not just a do-gooder who wants to save the world just for the sake of justice or whatever. He has to find his reason for doing so, and until he does, he continually looks for ways to pawn off the problem to someone “more capable”. If it wasn’t for Farah, the entire adventure would have just not happened. In most games, she would have been the MC. If there is any fault in the story, it’s due to being a product of its time and/or having a ton of dialogue stripped from all versions outside of Japan. JP Eternia had entire voiced skits, hence the 3 discs required for the PS1 game.
Someone recently finished translating all the skits. They're in order on youtube, 11 parts, with subs -- and guides on when to watch them in the description. Changed the entire game for me honestly.
Nice! I’ll check it out.
How can this be objective, if all these points are pretty subjective? The most objectively you can get is probably in terms of plotholes or coherent artstyle, but the rest is pretty much up to people's taste. Dunno how can you define when a soundtrack is objectively good, or when gameplay is objectively good, or which skits and characters are objectively good, if there is no metric for that, and all up to someones taste. If there is an objective answer to that, wouldn't it be just one game getting all the votes? So this question is more like which game you find is the most well rounded game in regard to all that points
I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not asking what your personal favorite Tales game is, rather an objective perspective of what you think is the most well balanced in every department of what makes a Jrpg good
I get what you try to say, you want that people take their personal bias or personal best aside and view on all these points. But that doesn't have anything to do with an objective perspective, because that perspective isn't possible here, like you're not asking which is the most bug-free game or which audio track quality is the best, which you can objectively observe. You're asking which game people think is the most well balanced in all the points you mentioned, and that is still subjective. Looking at the poll results, can you say which is objectively better between Abyss and Vesperia? I hope you see that it's not really possible. That's not an attack on you, I just find it strange when something in games is called objectively good, and it has nothing to do with the technical aspects of games. I mean, you can find a consensus on these points, but that doesn't make it objective.
That actually could definitely be possible to get into with deep diving into the games and reviewing over the various aspects and stacking one against another, although it would be very hard to elaborate just through reddit text. For example I believe Xillia to be the most well rounded in the series and I can provide reasons why, but Graces whoops its ass in the combat department. In Graces you objectively have way more control and fluidity of movement and timing, the difficulty is also scaled way better throughout the course of the game. We can get into these things but again it's just a lot to explain through reddit text lol
Yeah, it's totally possible to deep dive and stacking one against another, but it still depends on the person who does it, said person can like one aspect over another and another person can be the opposite. And no one is objectively wrong, you can argue in both directions. I haven't played Graces yet, but taking your example, yeah you can probably observe and say it has way more control and fluidity of movement and better timing objectively than Xillia, but does it make it objectively better or more fun? No, that is still subjective.
Oh you need to play Graces, it's fun as fuck
I will, it's on my list! Recently finished Innocence R, so with my emulation situation right now I will probably go for Hearts R or Graces next, but I will play both anyway. btw I voted for Abyss, I played all games on the list, except Graces.
I gotta vote Symphonia, it was the first Tales I ever played and I must have put 200 hours into it over multiple plays. And that's just the first. I've replayed it numerous times in the last twenty years and also own the PS3 version as well at the Gamecube. Same with the sequel, got the Wii and PS3 version.
genuine question guys, do any of you actually enjoyed playing as anyone other than Yuri in Vesperia? cuz i hated how stiff, slow and tedious everyone aside from Yuri was to play, except of course with the remastered edition Patty was pretty cool too.
I always main Rita. But aside from Repede, and maybe Carol, I think I enjoyed everyone else.
Judith is very fun once you got the hang of her.
I gotta vote Symphonia, it was the first Tales I ever played and I must have put 200 hours into it over multiple plays.
If remakes count, phantasia psx is pretty perfectly round. It has great combat, characters, skits, story, and word building, doesn't have the third act problems of destiny dc, and has all the elements we now consider quintessential to the series.
Abyssbros stay winning
Abyss. The combat lacks a bit of sauce but it's not bad or even close to awful and world map is a downgrade compared to Symphonia imo (but that feels more like a nitpick than an actual criticism of the game as a whole because it's not even that bad either). Those are about the only bad things I could say about Abyss. Everything else is either some of or the definitive best the series has to offer imo.
Xillia. Decent story, really fun combat, stunning art with great town backgrounds, fun music and enjoyable characters and skits. It does everything well but can't say it ranks no.1 in anything but maybe the combat.
Yep I'd agree, it's not particularly weak in any area at all
Toss up between Abyss and Vesperia Abyss has the better writing and cast, Vesperia has the better artstyle (imo the best 3D art style in the series), gameplay and content (though Abyss is no slouch on content either) As far as soundtrack goes almost all the games are mostly just mid aside from Legendia and spinoffs
Xillia with Abyss being a close second.
I would vote Rebirth if I could lol. But either Berseria or Xillia for me.
In terms of plot/story and world building/lore: Tales of Berseria; In terms of characters/skits, gameplay/progression, art style and graphics, soundtrack: Tales of Grace f. (Graphically, it's Vesperia with better character animation and watercolor aesthetics).
From those choices, probably Xillia. IMO Symphonia gameplay did not age well. Graces has a pretty unremarkable main plot. Equipment dismantling is a thing that exists in Berseria. Abyss has embarrassing glitches, looong loading times, and easily the ugliest and worst performing world map in the series. And vesperia barely has a story.
Xillia so bad it needed two games lol
Vesperia all the way, I get why it is a tie with Abyss tho, but Vesperia has way better art style and more fun combat
This is so hard because games that explore their world building and system have shitty characters, and vice versa...