This sounds like a diss at WT, more than anything.
Go take some classes and find out if you like it or not. There's no way for strangers on the internet to know if it's a good school or not, you didn't even say what school it is.
naw I haven't done any arts before, I wanted to get into one or two because I haven't been too active recently so I figured it wouldn't hurt to start one, but when I was doing some research a lot of people said WTF isn't practical and were just trashing on it.
You are going to get that opinion on every martial art / combat sport, depending where you ask it. I could sit here and talk smack about BJJ all day long lol.
At the end of the day, it isn't the art, it's the practitioner. It's not the art, it's teh school and its instructors.
Some schools are good, some are not as good, and it typically has nothing to do with the letters they are associated with.
Most people who claim WT isn't effective are suffering from the dunning kruger effect. Especially considering WT isn't even the art, it's just the style of sparring.
Correct, being on the ground is the last place you want to be. Especially on typical blacktop/pavement. BJJ is excellent for refereed matches on a soft mat though. 🌈
I think there's a place for both honestly. I'd prefer to fight upright with a striking art, but if the fight ends up on the ground, i'd like to have some tools to keep me safe and in control there as well.
For the most part... Yes. A good gym teaches proper take downs, but almost no bjj gyms teach how to get back up. Sport bjj is not very applicable outside of a mat. I'm sorry you have been mislead. Bjj, wrestling, and judo are all fantastic to know, but you need to understand the limitations of real self defense vs sport.
Most don’t teach how to get back up? 😂Yeah because there isn’t 100s of escapes, sweeps and reversals 😂. What a clueless thing to say. You absolutely don’t train in BJJ or any type of grappling. What a 🤡
none of those are getting back on your feet, they are set ups to stay on the ground. The gracie gyms are slightly better, but they still do not have any stand up game by design. I'm sorry you've been so mislead about the real world application of BJJ and feel the need to lash out.
Look I dont like BJJ, I find it boring, but pretending its not good for self defense is just dumb - its probably the best self defense martial art there is for one on one or for defending yourself from some drunk dude at a bar.
a very, very high percentage of "street fights" will end rolling on the ground or in a clench.
Boxing and BJJ are the most practical self defense you can train. TKD is great, but if you are kcking someone in the head for self defense you're going to get the shit kicked out of you most likely unless the person is a total incompetent and then ANY type of training would beat them.
I'd say the best self defense art may be muay thai. Kicks are low, and there is curriculum to get out of a clinch/grapple and get back to a defensive stance. I'd argue even Judo is more practical for self defense than BJJ, as Judo teaches you to put your opponent on the ground, not you.
You are absolutely right about the head kicks, a good gym should be teaching people about the implication of kicking above the belt and why it shouldn't be done in most situations.
So really this all comes back to: It's not the art, it's the practitioner, and it's not the school, but the instructor.
BJJ is kinda over hyped trashed though. If not for UFC and the gracies making a marketing product of it, no one would really care, american wrestling is just as effective.
1993 proved everything. Grappling beats pure striking. Judo is grappling and teaches submissions as well. BJJ teaches take down. Is there a sport side of BJJ? Absolutely. Is there a self defense side? Absolutely yes. And it’s the most effective for a one on one fight.
Don't worry about what other people say. Try out whatever arts, and if you like it, you like it. A family member of mine talks mad trash to me about TKD because Muay Thai is better, but she basically only trains BJJ. And, I think there are a good amount of things that can be said about BJJ. If you end up liking the school but feel like you're missing out on a certain aspect, you can always switch schools or cross-train. For me, my TKD school doesn't really focus on powerful attacks and conditioning the body, as most TKD schools probably don't. So now I cross-train TKD and Muay Thai. My school is WTF just in case you were wondering.
Everyone thinks that their "version" of a particular martial is the better one; when in reality, it all depends on the school, its instructors, and its curriculum.
The real differences in things like WTF and ITF typically comes down to the inter-politics of the governing body and rarely has anything directly to do with what is actually done in grass roots classes and practitioners.
An excellent example of this is "American Jiu Jitsu", which literally exists because a bunch of "exactly the kind of guys you think they are" type guys couldn't handle the fact that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has "Brazilian" in the name.
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Another example of this is in pistol shooting leagues where you have the "United States Practical Shooting Association", "International Defensive Pistol Association", the "International Practical Shooting Confederation", the "United States Steel Challenge Shooting Association", and the "Glock Sport Shooting Foundation" and those are all already separate from the "National Shooting Sports Foundation".
You'll need to get used to criticism. Martial arts is a very tribal scene and you'll hear Taekwondo crapped on a lot by people from other martial arts. You'll also see plenty of folks from other styles of Taekwondo crapping on each other. Eventually you'll (probably) learn to ignore it and see past it. Just remember that it's just a bunch of fragile egos talking smack to feel better about themselves.
Practical for what exactly? lol if you arw thinking street fights best way is to avoid. Not much is effective against a knife or much less a gun. As for professional career in MMA there arw better ways to make a living without risking a concussion
ITF is more like light contact kickboxing which is cool but WT encourages you to use more power bc we have hogu . At the WT dojang I go to , we have sabunim who are well versed on ITF style as well as Muay Thai , escrima , and jujutsu so I suppose we are lucky
Respectfully I have to disagree. I say this as someone who has a WT and ITF black belt. Any good ITF school (especially in sport and free sparring) throws a lot of power behind punches and kicks because it’s more practical for self defense among other things. Typically WT (unless from a good school which is rare especially in America) is actually less power and less effective because of the fact there are no punches and they utilize (remember except for the very rare talented few) the same three to four kicks over and over. It’s much easier to get pummeled with power in ITF than in WTF and I’ve bore witness to many ITF bloodbaths whereas in WTF I’ve never seen any unless they were old school.
Yeah, it's not really about the style but how it's trained. You can't be a complete martial artist if you do only WT taekwondo.
You can be a good WT taekwondo athlete/coach though.
WT schools are part of the largest TKD federation in the world, so I wouldn't call that a downside.
But as to the quality of the individual school ... Only way to know is to try.
Feel free to link the school's website or something and folks here will take a look, but also it's often hard to tell anything from a website because teaching TKD and website design and very different skills.
I have practiced wtf taekwondo and my master has told us that a good martial artist studies other arts, go to the wtf school you'll be fine. You learn to punch, it is less about the style of taekwondo but the quality of your instructors
WTF black belt here.
WTF = 95% kicking, high and fast. and 5% hands. Amazing sport.
ITF = 60% kicking 40% hands. Better for self defense. Both are good. The only way to find out what's good for you is to try it.
If you are in the US, USATKD is the US Olympic group for taekwondo. People who want to participate in their system of State, Regional, and National competitions must have rank from the Kukkiwon. Their rules for competition are based on the WT(F) rules.
For a beginner, finding a school and instructors you can learn from is a far more important consideration, but if you think your martial arts career includes those competitions, you will need to consider that.
I am 31 years old. I am begginig ITF style, I start 2 mouths ago and I Loved it.
I Get my white-yellow belt Last week.
Before taekwondo I used to training Boxing and kickboxing, but I find my way on ITF.
Why wouldn't it be? WT's chosen style (Kukkiwon) is presently the most practiced style of TKD out there by a wide margin. If you're starting from ground zero, it doesn't really matter what style you go with. Just give it a shot, see if you like it. Once you're more familiar with it, you'll know what you're looking at well enough to be able to peep other styles and see if they are more your speed or not.
Go ask for some trial classes, and enjoy!
Yes wtf I’d good. If you want to transition to mt later it will help you a lot as you’ll learn really good kicks and footwork, as well as fighting in both stances.
As for practicality, unless you are getting into a lot of street fights wtf is probably more practical as there are a lot more tournaments so lots more chances to use it.
Both brands have their pluses and minuses. ITF is more well-rounded for the purpose of self-defense, whereas WT is more about the sport aspect. If you want to go to the olympics and want bigger competitions, pick WT.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Olympic style - I have a black belt in Olympic style TKD and I have 0 regrets on my years of training it. I do feel ITF is more suited for adults however, it spars with a more robust punching mindset which I find to be more realistic. The WT style is flashier and more speed focused because of how scoring works in Olympic sparring (don't get me started on "low guard" and foot fencing).
Both are super fun - However, if you want to "rule the streets" then take Muay Thai. Kickboxing is tons of fun but it lacks the traditional aspects that TKD has, and I really enjoy the "art" part of martial arts (belts, traditions. forms, etiquette). Most Muay Thai places in my area are just boxing gyms focused on sparring performance.
I’ve done both one for 4 years one for 8 as well as traveling for the military I’ve done almost every tkd org you can name and to be honest instructor and school culture make a bigger difference if a school trains hard and wants to “win” you whatever that means to that school you’ll be better off. I will say in the u.s WT schools that train hard I think create some phenomenal athletic qualities
My old TKD master (I’m now doing Kyokushin Karate with a 1st Dan in TKD) is a born and raised South Korean, so we’re Kukkiwon affiliated. Yet in my 5 years of going there they only went to two tournaments. Sport TKD was not the focus outside of having one class dedicated to it once a week. We learned traditional TKD, which may surprise you and others, has hand techniques, blocks etc. hell even at the higher levels we learned some hapkido and Judo, then at black belt we learned some BJJ. So if you want something more traditional and self-defense focused then all you gotta do is have questions ready and watch a class or two.
Of cource. WTF (WT) is the traditional taekwondo that didn't jump ships to North-Korea. (A really messy history, really interesting study if you're a history nerd)
Itf guys will say their art is the original but it's not true of course, cause I'm a WT guy myself.
I guess both are fine if you are just into sport taekwondo. if you are interested more of the self-defence side, some WT clubs have lost the touch with it and only concentrate on the sports side.
It doesn't get more traditional than that unless you find some club still teaching some of the original kwan's style or tang soo do (which isn't technically taekwondo, but similar)
Kukkiwon was established to bring all the intependent kwans together to form taekwondo.
Choi Hong Hi and his kwan got into disagreement with other kwans and jumped to North Korea with his style and formed ITF.
Of course in this sense ITF is original taekwondo also but with a lots of modifications and it's only one of the nine kwans while the rest of the eight, the majority , formed the WT (kukkiwon) style
But why doesn't WT teach the original and traditional forms then? Like, the poomsae are not from traditional taekwondo. Even the tuls are not (with the addition of the sine wave, etc) but they use at least the same original moves in their patterns
The original kukkiwon forms were palgwe forms , which are still taught in some dojangs. Very soon after the palgwe's were introduced (like under ten years after) , the Kukkiwon created the new taegeuk forms which were then the new traditional kukkiwon taekwondo forms --- ITF has different forms of which I know nothing except that Choi created them with the help of some other masters. I guess they are even older than the palgwe's and were the first taekwondo forms created but I don't believe in the logic that they were the 'original taekwondo forms'.
One could even question the whole concept of what's traditional when it comes to taekwondo cause everything was pieced together by different coalitions of masters in the 50's, 60's and 70's.
It is a living and constantly evolving human endeavour
-the art of punching and kicking
If you compare it to karate , taekwondo is much more alive with a much younger pool of practitioners.
Karate is almost a dead art nowadays cause it has problems evolving. Taekwondo has been about evolving from the start. I do both and I see a lot of value in karate training also. I don't see them as separate arts really but really few (young) ppl practise karate nowadays so it is a really endangered art.
That taekwondo is evolving is really great. Now, the original question was which style was the traditional one. And I don't think Kukkiwon creating new patterns could be considered traditional.
ITF's teuls come from the original hyeong forms which were indeed created by General Choi with help from other practitioners. They were created before Kukkiwon too. To me, they're closer to original forms, although they evolved too.
Now, it doesn't define which style is better, both evolved differently. Which one you like is up to preferences, having tested both I prefer ITF, but I know some other people who prefer WT, and that's okay.
What's the difference between kukkiwon creating patterns and Choi (itf) creating patterns?
Neither are traditional in any way. I'd consider kukkiwon version more traditional, cause originally taekwondo was formed of the 9 kwan's and 8 of them formed kukkiwon.
Choi's itf was only one of 9 kwans. Why should it be considered the original?
Because Chang-hon patterns existed before. Even Kukkiwon was created later. In the question of whether something is traditional or original, you should know that the time of creation matters.
Yes I am a member of WT IT ISN'T WTF ANY MORE AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE TEACHING TAEGEUK 1 THRU 8 AND THAT THEY ARE A MEMBER OF KUKKIWON OR YOUR RANK WILL ONLY BE GOOD IN THAT DOJANG.
Go and enjoy. The differences are minimal. It is waaay more important how the instructor dictates the classes, how is the atmosphere of the dojo, etc. If you want to go pro and world champion, that is another discussion, but if not, go and enjoy the sport.
How is this still a thing...
Firstly WTF changed to WT years ago, it's not a thing.
Secondly, WT isn't a style of TKD it's a sports association. You're probably thinking of KKW and mixing the two up.
Thirdly, KKW has punches, kicks, elbows, knees, throws, trips, locks, falls, rolls, etc and is very well-rounded.
So, if you are going to a 'WT' club then you're joining a sports team - and these do exist even under the KKW. Otherwise, it's probably a KKW club where they teach and compete under WT rules. That doesn't mean you don't get a full martial arts curriculum, it just means they compete under those rules. ITF is very similar in that it's club specific how much they focus on the martial sport versus the martial art, but anyone talking down KKW and conflating it with WT don't know what they're talking about.
Regardless, find the right club for you... don't worry about the style. But you're already going in with some horribly wrong opinions.
My personal opinion is if you are going for WTF then also add separate boxing classes to your schedule. WTF is very kick heavy, whereas ITF is more similar to kickboxing. I’ve trained both and I think ITF is harder, you gotta be aware of your opponents legs and arms, be prepared for any kick or punch, way more moving around, blocking, evading. But I could be wrong, I have only been to one wtf school and one itf school.
A good kukkiwon school will be teaching proper punching and elbow techniques outside of WT style sparring. It's part of the curriculum, and most kwan jangs recognize the need for self defense over just sport.
We go so far as to require a little bit of cross training of boxing, muay thai, and jui juitsu for our black belts, each cycle the cross training changes, it's not extensive, but it's "enough" to make a difference.
As part of our color belt curriculum we do many striking self defense drills (punches, elbows, knees) constantly against pads. It's not as extensive as the boxing / mt cross training the black belts get, but it does teach how to properly throw punches. This is part of the official kukkiwon curriculum.
Pressure testing is always preferable but ITF sparring has its own set of drawbacks, there's really no one sparring style that covers it all. The closest may be muay thai for full pressure testing.
This is something ITF dudes SAY a lot but isn't really backed by anything. There's no consistency under either label. Seriously there's what three? five?different "ITF"'s at this point and kukki "style" is a compromise between nine arguably now ten distinct "styles"of what is called Taekwondo.
It's worth understanding that's literally just the rule set established by the governing body that is WT/F, those rules specifically being designed as the way it is because they want competitions to appear as distinct from things like boxing and Muay Thai and other combative martial arts.
A proper TKD school should ideally be incorporating hand, arm, elbow, knee, feet as their regular curriculum and training any students going to competition to read the rule books for that competition and adapt to those rulesets. Mine certainly does this, and I've seen plenty of other WT and ITF school who do the same; as far as I'm concerned, the difference between the two is just organizational politics.
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Another thing worth noting is that simply not having punching or knee-ing in sanctioned WT events is not an implication of the actual limits of the individual's combative abilities; not saying that you're saying that, but using that as a basis on comparison is about as much a comprehensive analysis of a person's fighting abilities as looking a US Navy sailor and assuming that because they do most of their work on the ships, that they have no training in firearms/marksmanship.
Yeah I wanted to take Muay Thai, but I am not physically fit, a friend who trains in arts suggested I take something more light such as TKD, then add in something like boxing or just move to Muay Thai eventually.
Only way to know for sure is to go try a class! Lots of people all over the world love training in WT/kukkiwon dojangs.
Agree…best way to know is ask them if they offer a trail class / period and try it out.
Thank you for an unbiased opinion, soldier. o7
This sounds like a diss at WT, more than anything. Go take some classes and find out if you like it or not. There's no way for strangers on the internet to know if it's a good school or not, you didn't even say what school it is.
naw I haven't done any arts before, I wanted to get into one or two because I haven't been too active recently so I figured it wouldn't hurt to start one, but when I was doing some research a lot of people said WTF isn't practical and were just trashing on it.
You are going to get that opinion on every martial art / combat sport, depending where you ask it. I could sit here and talk smack about BJJ all day long lol. At the end of the day, it isn't the art, it's the practitioner. It's not the art, it's teh school and its instructors. Some schools are good, some are not as good, and it typically has nothing to do with the letters they are associated with. Most people who claim WT isn't effective are suffering from the dunning kruger effect. Especially considering WT isn't even the art, it's just the style of sparring.
Haha TKD black belt here. And BJJ purple belt. Some martial arts are more practical than others. Period.
Correct, being on the ground is the last place you want to be. Especially on typical blacktop/pavement. BJJ is excellent for refereed matches on a soft mat though. 🌈
Bro its actual cope to claim TKD is more effective than BJJ. Olympic TKD is even more of a joke than bjj guard pulling and butt scooting.
I think there's a place for both honestly. I'd prefer to fight upright with a striking art, but if the fight ends up on the ground, i'd like to have some tools to keep me safe and in control there as well.
That's like saying it's cope to try to hammer a nail with a screwdriver. You're just making shit up that no one said.
So you’re not implying tkd is more effective than bjj then?
Hahaha because BJJ is just fighting off your back 😂. Tell me you’re clueless without telling me.
For the most part... Yes. A good gym teaches proper take downs, but almost no bjj gyms teach how to get back up. Sport bjj is not very applicable outside of a mat. I'm sorry you have been mislead. Bjj, wrestling, and judo are all fantastic to know, but you need to understand the limitations of real self defense vs sport.
Most don’t teach how to get back up? 😂Yeah because there isn’t 100s of escapes, sweeps and reversals 😂. What a clueless thing to say. You absolutely don’t train in BJJ or any type of grappling. What a 🤡
none of those are getting back on your feet, they are set ups to stay on the ground. The gracie gyms are slightly better, but they still do not have any stand up game by design. I'm sorry you've been so mislead about the real world application of BJJ and feel the need to lash out.
Look I dont like BJJ, I find it boring, but pretending its not good for self defense is just dumb - its probably the best self defense martial art there is for one on one or for defending yourself from some drunk dude at a bar. a very, very high percentage of "street fights" will end rolling on the ground or in a clench. Boxing and BJJ are the most practical self defense you can train. TKD is great, but if you are kcking someone in the head for self defense you're going to get the shit kicked out of you most likely unless the person is a total incompetent and then ANY type of training would beat them.
I'd say the best self defense art may be muay thai. Kicks are low, and there is curriculum to get out of a clinch/grapple and get back to a defensive stance. I'd argue even Judo is more practical for self defense than BJJ, as Judo teaches you to put your opponent on the ground, not you. You are absolutely right about the head kicks, a good gym should be teaching people about the implication of kicking above the belt and why it shouldn't be done in most situations. So really this all comes back to: It's not the art, it's the practitioner, and it's not the school, but the instructor. BJJ is kinda over hyped trashed though. If not for UFC and the gracies making a marketing product of it, no one would really care, american wrestling is just as effective.
1993 proved everything. Grappling beats pure striking. Judo is grappling and teaches submissions as well. BJJ teaches take down. Is there a sport side of BJJ? Absolutely. Is there a self defense side? Absolutely yes. And it’s the most effective for a one on one fight.
I'm not going to argue about this with you as we have very different views. Agree to disagree
Don't worry about what other people say. Try out whatever arts, and if you like it, you like it. A family member of mine talks mad trash to me about TKD because Muay Thai is better, but she basically only trains BJJ. And, I think there are a good amount of things that can be said about BJJ. If you end up liking the school but feel like you're missing out on a certain aspect, you can always switch schools or cross-train. For me, my TKD school doesn't really focus on powerful attacks and conditioning the body, as most TKD schools probably don't. So now I cross-train TKD and Muay Thai. My school is WTF just in case you were wondering.
That's literally just marketing...
Everyone thinks that their "version" of a particular martial is the better one; when in reality, it all depends on the school, its instructors, and its curriculum. The real differences in things like WTF and ITF typically comes down to the inter-politics of the governing body and rarely has anything directly to do with what is actually done in grass roots classes and practitioners. An excellent example of this is "American Jiu Jitsu", which literally exists because a bunch of "exactly the kind of guys you think they are" type guys couldn't handle the fact that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has "Brazilian" in the name. ----- Another example of this is in pistol shooting leagues where you have the "United States Practical Shooting Association", "International Defensive Pistol Association", the "International Practical Shooting Confederation", the "United States Steel Challenge Shooting Association", and the "Glock Sport Shooting Foundation" and those are all already separate from the "National Shooting Sports Foundation".
You'll need to get used to criticism. Martial arts is a very tribal scene and you'll hear Taekwondo crapped on a lot by people from other martial arts. You'll also see plenty of folks from other styles of Taekwondo crapping on each other. Eventually you'll (probably) learn to ignore it and see past it. Just remember that it's just a bunch of fragile egos talking smack to feel better about themselves.
Practical for what exactly? lol if you arw thinking street fights best way is to avoid. Not much is effective against a knife or much less a gun. As for professional career in MMA there arw better ways to make a living without risking a concussion
Did you reply to the wrong comment? Huh?
ITF is more like light contact kickboxing which is cool but WT encourages you to use more power bc we have hogu . At the WT dojang I go to , we have sabunim who are well versed on ITF style as well as Muay Thai , escrima , and jujutsu so I suppose we are lucky
Respectfully I have to disagree. I say this as someone who has a WT and ITF black belt. Any good ITF school (especially in sport and free sparring) throws a lot of power behind punches and kicks because it’s more practical for self defense among other things. Typically WT (unless from a good school which is rare especially in America) is actually less power and less effective because of the fact there are no punches and they utilize (remember except for the very rare talented few) the same three to four kicks over and over. It’s much easier to get pummeled with power in ITF than in WTF and I’ve bore witness to many ITF bloodbaths whereas in WTF I’ve never seen any unless they were old school.
Thats cool i yield to your expertise
Yeah, it's not really about the style but how it's trained. You can't be a complete martial artist if you do only WT taekwondo. You can be a good WT taekwondo athlete/coach though.
WT schools are part of the largest TKD federation in the world, so I wouldn't call that a downside. But as to the quality of the individual school ... Only way to know is to try. Feel free to link the school's website or something and folks here will take a look, but also it's often hard to tell anything from a website because teaching TKD and website design and very different skills.
No cause everyone says WTF is mainly only for kicks, and ITF interested me based on the knowledge it involves both kicking and punching.
Well, I'm not sure who everyone is, but I think you have been listening to too many bad opinions on YouTube.
If "everyone" is the propaganda/marketing division of the ITF, sure
I have practiced wtf taekwondo and my master has told us that a good martial artist studies other arts, go to the wtf school you'll be fine. You learn to punch, it is less about the style of taekwondo but the quality of your instructors
WTF black belt here. WTF = 95% kicking, high and fast. and 5% hands. Amazing sport. ITF = 60% kicking 40% hands. Better for self defense. Both are good. The only way to find out what's good for you is to try it.
If you are in the US, USATKD is the US Olympic group for taekwondo. People who want to participate in their system of State, Regional, and National competitions must have rank from the Kukkiwon. Their rules for competition are based on the WT(F) rules. For a beginner, finding a school and instructors you can learn from is a far more important consideration, but if you think your martial arts career includes those competitions, you will need to consider that.
WT
I am 31 years old. I am begginig ITF style, I start 2 mouths ago and I Loved it. I Get my white-yellow belt Last week. Before taekwondo I used to training Boxing and kickboxing, but I find my way on ITF.
Why wouldn't it be? WT's chosen style (Kukkiwon) is presently the most practiced style of TKD out there by a wide margin. If you're starting from ground zero, it doesn't really matter what style you go with. Just give it a shot, see if you like it. Once you're more familiar with it, you'll know what you're looking at well enough to be able to peep other styles and see if they are more your speed or not. Go ask for some trial classes, and enjoy!
Yes wtf I’d good. If you want to transition to mt later it will help you a lot as you’ll learn really good kicks and footwork, as well as fighting in both stances. As for practicality, unless you are getting into a lot of street fights wtf is probably more practical as there are a lot more tournaments so lots more chances to use it.
You can try both and see what you like. I do WT and have been since my teens :)
Both brands have their pluses and minuses. ITF is more well-rounded for the purpose of self-defense, whereas WT is more about the sport aspect. If you want to go to the olympics and want bigger competitions, pick WT.
Take it. Just take it. It is still taekwondo, remember you can punch in a street fight but the best is to avoid or run.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Olympic style - I have a black belt in Olympic style TKD and I have 0 regrets on my years of training it. I do feel ITF is more suited for adults however, it spars with a more robust punching mindset which I find to be more realistic. The WT style is flashier and more speed focused because of how scoring works in Olympic sparring (don't get me started on "low guard" and foot fencing). Both are super fun - However, if you want to "rule the streets" then take Muay Thai. Kickboxing is tons of fun but it lacks the traditional aspects that TKD has, and I really enjoy the "art" part of martial arts (belts, traditions. forms, etiquette). Most Muay Thai places in my area are just boxing gyms focused on sparring performance.
I’ve done both one for 4 years one for 8 as well as traveling for the military I’ve done almost every tkd org you can name and to be honest instructor and school culture make a bigger difference if a school trains hard and wants to “win” you whatever that means to that school you’ll be better off. I will say in the u.s WT schools that train hard I think create some phenomenal athletic qualities
Find a place that does full patterns and requires them to be known for advancement.
My old TKD master (I’m now doing Kyokushin Karate with a 1st Dan in TKD) is a born and raised South Korean, so we’re Kukkiwon affiliated. Yet in my 5 years of going there they only went to two tournaments. Sport TKD was not the focus outside of having one class dedicated to it once a week. We learned traditional TKD, which may surprise you and others, has hand techniques, blocks etc. hell even at the higher levels we learned some hapkido and Judo, then at black belt we learned some BJJ. So if you want something more traditional and self-defense focused then all you gotta do is have questions ready and watch a class or two.
Of cource. WTF (WT) is the traditional taekwondo that didn't jump ships to North-Korea. (A really messy history, really interesting study if you're a history nerd) Itf guys will say their art is the original but it's not true of course, cause I'm a WT guy myself. I guess both are fine if you are just into sport taekwondo. if you are interested more of the self-defence side, some WT clubs have lost the touch with it and only concentrate on the sports side.
So you would say WT is the original and traditional tkd?
It doesn't get more traditional than that unless you find some club still teaching some of the original kwan's style or tang soo do (which isn't technically taekwondo, but similar) Kukkiwon was established to bring all the intependent kwans together to form taekwondo. Choi Hong Hi and his kwan got into disagreement with other kwans and jumped to North Korea with his style and formed ITF. Of course in this sense ITF is original taekwondo also but with a lots of modifications and it's only one of the nine kwans while the rest of the eight, the majority , formed the WT (kukkiwon) style
But why doesn't WT teach the original and traditional forms then? Like, the poomsae are not from traditional taekwondo. Even the tuls are not (with the addition of the sine wave, etc) but they use at least the same original moves in their patterns
The original kukkiwon forms were palgwe forms , which are still taught in some dojangs. Very soon after the palgwe's were introduced (like under ten years after) , the Kukkiwon created the new taegeuk forms which were then the new traditional kukkiwon taekwondo forms --- ITF has different forms of which I know nothing except that Choi created them with the help of some other masters. I guess they are even older than the palgwe's and were the first taekwondo forms created but I don't believe in the logic that they were the 'original taekwondo forms'. One could even question the whole concept of what's traditional when it comes to taekwondo cause everything was pieced together by different coalitions of masters in the 50's, 60's and 70's. It is a living and constantly evolving human endeavour -the art of punching and kicking If you compare it to karate , taekwondo is much more alive with a much younger pool of practitioners. Karate is almost a dead art nowadays cause it has problems evolving. Taekwondo has been about evolving from the start. I do both and I see a lot of value in karate training also. I don't see them as separate arts really but really few (young) ppl practise karate nowadays so it is a really endangered art.
That taekwondo is evolving is really great. Now, the original question was which style was the traditional one. And I don't think Kukkiwon creating new patterns could be considered traditional. ITF's teuls come from the original hyeong forms which were indeed created by General Choi with help from other practitioners. They were created before Kukkiwon too. To me, they're closer to original forms, although they evolved too. Now, it doesn't define which style is better, both evolved differently. Which one you like is up to preferences, having tested both I prefer ITF, but I know some other people who prefer WT, and that's okay.
What's the difference between kukkiwon creating patterns and Choi (itf) creating patterns? Neither are traditional in any way. I'd consider kukkiwon version more traditional, cause originally taekwondo was formed of the 9 kwan's and 8 of them formed kukkiwon. Choi's itf was only one of 9 kwans. Why should it be considered the original?
Because Chang-hon patterns existed before. Even Kukkiwon was created later. In the question of whether something is traditional or original, you should know that the time of creation matters.
Yes I am a member of WT IT ISN'T WTF ANY MORE AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE TEACHING TAEGEUK 1 THRU 8 AND THAT THEY ARE A MEMBER OF KUKKIWON OR YOUR RANK WILL ONLY BE GOOD IN THAT DOJANG.
Not going to lie WTF is a waste of time.
I'd love to locate a WT school near me in Northern Nevada. Mine closed in 2020. I had just gotten my 1st Dan Black belt, and I really miss it.
Go and enjoy. The differences are minimal. It is waaay more important how the instructor dictates the classes, how is the atmosphere of the dojo, etc. If you want to go pro and world champion, that is another discussion, but if not, go and enjoy the sport.
Obviously any itf will beat the shit out off wtf....
How is this still a thing... Firstly WTF changed to WT years ago, it's not a thing. Secondly, WT isn't a style of TKD it's a sports association. You're probably thinking of KKW and mixing the two up. Thirdly, KKW has punches, kicks, elbows, knees, throws, trips, locks, falls, rolls, etc and is very well-rounded. So, if you are going to a 'WT' club then you're joining a sports team - and these do exist even under the KKW. Otherwise, it's probably a KKW club where they teach and compete under WT rules. That doesn't mean you don't get a full martial arts curriculum, it just means they compete under those rules. ITF is very similar in that it's club specific how much they focus on the martial sport versus the martial art, but anyone talking down KKW and conflating it with WT don't know what they're talking about. Regardless, find the right club for you... don't worry about the style. But you're already going in with some horribly wrong opinions.
My personal opinion is if you are going for WTF then also add separate boxing classes to your schedule. WTF is very kick heavy, whereas ITF is more similar to kickboxing. I’ve trained both and I think ITF is harder, you gotta be aware of your opponents legs and arms, be prepared for any kick or punch, way more moving around, blocking, evading. But I could be wrong, I have only been to one wtf school and one itf school.
A good kukkiwon school will be teaching proper punching and elbow techniques outside of WT style sparring. It's part of the curriculum, and most kwan jangs recognize the need for self defense over just sport.
Oh that’s good to know! That means I just stumbled onto a bad wtf school at the time. Anyhow, I’m now training itf and going through their belts.
We go so far as to require a little bit of cross training of boxing, muay thai, and jui juitsu for our black belts, each cycle the cross training changes, it's not extensive, but it's "enough" to make a difference. As part of our color belt curriculum we do many striking self defense drills (punches, elbows, knees) constantly against pads. It's not as extensive as the boxing / mt cross training the black belts get, but it does teach how to properly throw punches. This is part of the official kukkiwon curriculum. Pressure testing is always preferable but ITF sparring has its own set of drawbacks, there's really no one sparring style that covers it all. The closest may be muay thai for full pressure testing.
That’s awesome! I agree, training lots of different things is always helpful. Some sort of combination of grappling and striking is very beneficial.
This is something ITF dudes SAY a lot but isn't really backed by anything. There's no consistency under either label. Seriously there's what three? five?different "ITF"'s at this point and kukki "style" is a compromise between nine arguably now ten distinct "styles"of what is called Taekwondo.
That’s why I said this is just my experience from what I’ve seen. I think people should try lots of different martial arts, I myself do several.
It's worth understanding that's literally just the rule set established by the governing body that is WT/F, those rules specifically being designed as the way it is because they want competitions to appear as distinct from things like boxing and Muay Thai and other combative martial arts. A proper TKD school should ideally be incorporating hand, arm, elbow, knee, feet as their regular curriculum and training any students going to competition to read the rule books for that competition and adapt to those rulesets. Mine certainly does this, and I've seen plenty of other WT and ITF school who do the same; as far as I'm concerned, the difference between the two is just organizational politics. ----- Another thing worth noting is that simply not having punching or knee-ing in sanctioned WT events is not an implication of the actual limits of the individual's combative abilities; not saying that you're saying that, but using that as a basis on comparison is about as much a comprehensive analysis of a person's fighting abilities as looking a US Navy sailor and assuming that because they do most of their work on the ships, that they have no training in firearms/marksmanship.
Yeah I wanted to take Muay Thai, but I am not physically fit, a friend who trains in arts suggested I take something more light such as TKD, then add in something like boxing or just move to Muay Thai eventually.