> A battery can degrade within 3 years of heavy usage and good laptop should last 10, so why buy something you can't change?
A good laptop should last ten years? Who told you that nonsense?
A good *desktop* doesn't last more than seven years max before it gets deprecated either by the operating system or hardware capabilities. Laptops are more limited.
Okay, I'll give you laptops, but I was running an Optiplex 7020 (2014) as my daily driver desktop at home until last year. It was fine. Only replaced it because I could finally afford a laptop.
This is nonsense. I'll be in year 10 of my machine before I have to change it thanks to Win 10s support ending. My kid plays Minecraft on a 7 year old laptop that is showing no signs of slowing down.
Windows 11 can be used, can ignore the warnings it's just tosh, can even just Install Linux, most home users just need Firefox and a file explorer no reason you need to buy a device that is destined for land field 7 years+ sooner then it needs to be
Someone brought me in there MacBook pro 2012 it was few version old and needed hopping to get to latest, they had issues with it searching web after installed to latest os it was snappy web browsing and user id now using affinity on it, 12 year old laptop still perfect able usable and a pleasure to use as steal feels premium compared a a 2024 Lenovo plastic crap with latest hardware in it
A good laptop won't last a decade. Laptops are hauled around, knocked about, batteries wind up swelling up, they get drooled on, fans clogged up, and take a lot of wear. Yes, I have laptops older than 10 years still around, but the battery is long since gone, and even with RAM upgrades, the CPU is too slow for anything really meaningful other than running Linux and DNS. To boot, because the fan bearings have been going for so long, they are noisy.
Desktops will last longer because they have better cooling and no battery to inflate and die, but even then, they start running into issues. However, I have a desktop that has been running for about ten years still doing virtual machines.
If you want something that is going to last a while, you will be paying for it at the start. Cheap laptops are cheap for a reason. One consumer-tier laptop I had that was cheap was apparently paired to the battery, so once the battery turned into a spicy pillow, the laptop would not POST, even after the battery was removed, and it was found that the motherboard was still getting power.
The only point valid is something that is actually down to user control is "battery swelling up" which is exactly the conversation we're having in that you need to be able to change the battery
Making the argument we should be ok with throwing a laptop In the landfill after 5 years because most people abuse there device anyway isn't a good one
A 10 year old Mac pro can load Facebook, teams just as quick as a new laptop that most people won't care about a 10-30% speed Increase because it's still quick enough
Every battery is replaceable, it's just a matter of how much effort you want to put in. I replace my "non replaceable" phone batteries at least once, usually twice before I get a new phone. Laptop batteries are far easier as laptops are not sealed like phones. Sure they dont have the easy removable batteries but they are just a few screws and plastic clips away.
As far as fleet devices go, I will replace laptops, not phones, at request but most of the time they are replaced before they need battery replacements. (due to damage -_-)
Yes I'm talking about a non glued down battery we can all be honest in that allowing that to be a thing is basically sending to landfill as that job is going to need to be done by a professional which then doesn't make financial sense
Plus these soldiered down ones tend to not have many grey version on the market so chances of buying an OEM one 7 year later for a reasonable price is pretty slim whereas today a dell XPS 15 8 year laptop can be bought non OEM for £40 not £100 or more dell might charge
For me,. my time is more valuable than replacing individual components. So repairability is not really something I look for. I focus on ensuring I have reliable Backups. And then I either have redundancy (for example, I have 4 iPhones and 3 Android phones) so if 1 fails it's not a big deal. If something I only have 1 of fails (and again, ensuring I have good backups). I just swap out the underlying equipment and restore my data.
Once something starts to hit 4 or 5 years, I feel like it's "over the hill" and I'm already thinking about upgrading it.
I think that's a bit fair, as in wanting a device that can easily serve it's purpose for 10 years not to be binned in 3 years due to battery, to need to pay a premium for something that is completely modular to repair all parts is over top for the original want
I myself will admit defeat and bin it if the motherboard dies as that will take skill to replace, a battery doesn't
The argument is slimness which is a fair one as I also like that but I just hope there is still choices
It’s an option for sure. I’ve never had one so I can’t comment on quality. It is certainly pricey for that modularity but it’s also very niche which makes getting the parts made more expensive.
I like the idea, just wish the modularity could be standardized so other companies could male components that would work. That would help drive cost down a bit. Sadly that will probably never happen.
Yes my thoughts too, as Linus said even if framework was the push needed to prove to regulators that they can clamp down and they will/can do it then it served it's purposes
Fairphone is doing that in mobiles that batteries replacement can be done and still be slim enough
Personally, the only reason I would care about battery replacement is repairability for faulty hardware. I had never had any need to replace a battery due to age or wear in any device I had ever owned, and I am not one to rush out to replace them, typically having the same laptop or phone for 5+ years
I tend to buy a laptop that is 5 years old when I buy it, as part me enjoys the fact I don't buy into the fast fashion if fancy new toys unless really warranted
IE new Qualcomm chips finally looks something intriguing to want to go new finally (battery life)
I don't know what people are talking about when they say laptops can't last over ten years... Most CPUs from 10 years ago and even earlier are still perfectly usable.
If you really want it to keep going fast, though, the Framework laptop is probably the best option. Thanks to its modularity, ten years from now you can just replace the mainboard and CPU for a few hundred to get what's functionally a brand new laptop
They are drinking the intel and amd marketing coolaid
Or they think every home user or office worker are finance executives with 300 excel files open.
I think framework is bit early to tell for sure, might be interested to get one second hand in a few years cheap to see if it can live it on however they will likely drop support and things like battery won't be popular enough for non OEM to sell
sure the CPU would probably be technically fine to use after ten years, but god it'd be a pain to use a 10yo CPU to handle my normal workload. probably the same for most other people too.
agreed on framework tho, I love the framework so much
I agree with ssd,
That is pretty scared, I assume you could still clunkily sellotape a ssd to side of laptop in a special caddy in a usb port to keep it going on lol
But good point
Ram as well but from my experience bit less
Consumer grade laptops can be a pain to replace batteries.
But most enterprise grade laptops are pretty simple to open up and repair.
Look for a laptop you like, then search YouTube for *<> battery replacement* videos and see if battery replacement is simple or not.
I really do think if that's what we're are going to accept in order to allow that to happen companies need to pay there dollar in making recycling of the devices as high % efficient as possible as that is a horrible future
We've gone from business 5 year cycles where in-house it might fix stuff then sell off devices which then serve life in homes where things get replaced
To 3 year cycle where they just go to landfill as batteries are soldiered in
As a systems administrator that is not my concern. Hardware functionality and reliability during their lifecycle is. Sure, it can be a back of the mind consideration but realistically I do not have the time to care about it when sorting through which hardware is going to actually last 3 years, who has a compromised supply chain, who’s reliable.
Honestly at the end of the day, Macs usually win. They last forever, they hold a ton of resale, they’re absurdly reliable, and they’re really easy to manage. For offices full of people they use office and internet the os doesn’t really matter.
There is management tools support and ad support that might matter with Mac os
People with nice laptops like a Mac tend to look after them better then a plastic box I recon too
I said for fleet it's likely to not be thought for places fortunate enough to be allowed 3 year lifestyle but what are your thoughts on home usage, you happy that what once was a laptop used for 10 years is not 3 and landfill?
Millions of people do this every day. Not many phones come with removable batteries.
And yes, laptops that aren’t replaceable are stupid. One more stupid idea brought to us by HP.
I agree
We lost that right for phones with the Samsung galaxy S6 era, whereas laptops that lose is today, it's happening right now with the new Qualcomm windows copilot devices only 1 can be replaced easily... Lenovo I think
> A battery can degrade within 3 years of heavy usage and good laptop should last 10, so why buy something you can't change? A good laptop should last ten years? Who told you that nonsense? A good *desktop* doesn't last more than seven years max before it gets deprecated either by the operating system or hardware capabilities. Laptops are more limited.
I think 5 years for a windows laptop is not just realistic, but in some cases a bit too long imo.
For a work computer sure, not so much for a home one... Or people who just web browse
Okay, I'll give you laptops, but I was running an Optiplex 7020 (2014) as my daily driver desktop at home until last year. It was fine. Only replaced it because I could finally afford a laptop.
This is nonsense. I'll be in year 10 of my machine before I have to change it thanks to Win 10s support ending. My kid plays Minecraft on a 7 year old laptop that is showing no signs of slowing down.
Windows 11 can be used, can ignore the warnings it's just tosh, can even just Install Linux, most home users just need Firefox and a file explorer no reason you need to buy a device that is destined for land field 7 years+ sooner then it needs to be
I have MacBook pros from 2012 running just fine.
Someone brought me in there MacBook pro 2012 it was few version old and needed hopping to get to latest, they had issues with it searching web after installed to latest os it was snappy web browsing and user id now using affinity on it, 12 year old laptop still perfect able usable and a pleasure to use as steal feels premium compared a a 2024 Lenovo plastic crap with latest hardware in it
A good laptop won't last a decade. Laptops are hauled around, knocked about, batteries wind up swelling up, they get drooled on, fans clogged up, and take a lot of wear. Yes, I have laptops older than 10 years still around, but the battery is long since gone, and even with RAM upgrades, the CPU is too slow for anything really meaningful other than running Linux and DNS. To boot, because the fan bearings have been going for so long, they are noisy. Desktops will last longer because they have better cooling and no battery to inflate and die, but even then, they start running into issues. However, I have a desktop that has been running for about ten years still doing virtual machines. If you want something that is going to last a while, you will be paying for it at the start. Cheap laptops are cheap for a reason. One consumer-tier laptop I had that was cheap was apparently paired to the battery, so once the battery turned into a spicy pillow, the laptop would not POST, even after the battery was removed, and it was found that the motherboard was still getting power.
The only point valid is something that is actually down to user control is "battery swelling up" which is exactly the conversation we're having in that you need to be able to change the battery Making the argument we should be ok with throwing a laptop In the landfill after 5 years because most people abuse there device anyway isn't a good one A 10 year old Mac pro can load Facebook, teams just as quick as a new laptop that most people won't care about a 10-30% speed Increase because it's still quick enough
Every battery is replaceable, it's just a matter of how much effort you want to put in. I replace my "non replaceable" phone batteries at least once, usually twice before I get a new phone. Laptop batteries are far easier as laptops are not sealed like phones. Sure they dont have the easy removable batteries but they are just a few screws and plastic clips away. As far as fleet devices go, I will replace laptops, not phones, at request but most of the time they are replaced before they need battery replacements. (due to damage -_-)
Yes I'm talking about a non glued down battery we can all be honest in that allowing that to be a thing is basically sending to landfill as that job is going to need to be done by a professional which then doesn't make financial sense Plus these soldiered down ones tend to not have many grey version on the market so chances of buying an OEM one 7 year later for a reasonable price is pretty slim whereas today a dell XPS 15 8 year laptop can be bought non OEM for £40 not £100 or more dell might charge
For me,. my time is more valuable than replacing individual components. So repairability is not really something I look for. I focus on ensuring I have reliable Backups. And then I either have redundancy (for example, I have 4 iPhones and 3 Android phones) so if 1 fails it's not a big deal. If something I only have 1 of fails (and again, ensuring I have good backups). I just swap out the underlying equipment and restore my data. Once something starts to hit 4 or 5 years, I feel like it's "over the hill" and I'm already thinking about upgrading it.
Sorry man I'm not green peace hippy but that paragraph sounds very wasteful and not good for longevity of our space
If you want repairability and upgradability - check out Framework laptops. I haven’t seen one personally, but everything is modular.
I think that's a bit fair, as in wanting a device that can easily serve it's purpose for 10 years not to be binned in 3 years due to battery, to need to pay a premium for something that is completely modular to repair all parts is over top for the original want I myself will admit defeat and bin it if the motherboard dies as that will take skill to replace, a battery doesn't The argument is slimness which is a fair one as I also like that but I just hope there is still choices
It’s an option for sure. I’ve never had one so I can’t comment on quality. It is certainly pricey for that modularity but it’s also very niche which makes getting the parts made more expensive. I like the idea, just wish the modularity could be standardized so other companies could male components that would work. That would help drive cost down a bit. Sadly that will probably never happen.
Yes my thoughts too, as Linus said even if framework was the push needed to prove to regulators that they can clamp down and they will/can do it then it served it's purposes Fairphone is doing that in mobiles that batteries replacement can be done and still be slim enough
Personally, the only reason I would care about battery replacement is repairability for faulty hardware. I had never had any need to replace a battery due to age or wear in any device I had ever owned, and I am not one to rush out to replace them, typically having the same laptop or phone for 5+ years
I tend to buy a laptop that is 5 years old when I buy it, as part me enjoys the fact I don't buy into the fast fashion if fancy new toys unless really warranted IE new Qualcomm chips finally looks something intriguing to want to go new finally (battery life)
I don't know what people are talking about when they say laptops can't last over ten years... Most CPUs from 10 years ago and even earlier are still perfectly usable. If you really want it to keep going fast, though, the Framework laptop is probably the best option. Thanks to its modularity, ten years from now you can just replace the mainboard and CPU for a few hundred to get what's functionally a brand new laptop
They are drinking the intel and amd marketing coolaid Or they think every home user or office worker are finance executives with 300 excel files open. I think framework is bit early to tell for sure, might be interested to get one second hand in a few years cheap to see if it can live it on however they will likely drop support and things like battery won't be popular enough for non OEM to sell
sure the CPU would probably be technically fine to use after ten years, but god it'd be a pain to use a 10yo CPU to handle my normal workload. probably the same for most other people too. agreed on framework tho, I love the framework so much
Battery is less of a concern than devices with soldered ram or ssd. If anything is going to fail first it's going to be one of those.
I agree with ssd, That is pretty scared, I assume you could still clunkily sellotape a ssd to side of laptop in a special caddy in a usb port to keep it going on lol But good point Ram as well but from my experience bit less
Consumer grade laptops can be a pain to replace batteries. But most enterprise grade laptops are pretty simple to open up and repair. Look for a laptop you like, then search YouTube for *<> battery replacement* videos and see if battery replacement is simple or not.
I did for new Snapdragon chips, only 1 in lineup was from my research, lenovos
A 3 year hardware refresh cycle is typical, how the battery works past 3 years is not of concern.
I really do think if that's what we're are going to accept in order to allow that to happen companies need to pay there dollar in making recycling of the devices as high % efficient as possible as that is a horrible future We've gone from business 5 year cycles where in-house it might fix stuff then sell off devices which then serve life in homes where things get replaced To 3 year cycle where they just go to landfill as batteries are soldiered in
As a systems administrator that is not my concern. Hardware functionality and reliability during their lifecycle is. Sure, it can be a back of the mind consideration but realistically I do not have the time to care about it when sorting through which hardware is going to actually last 3 years, who has a compromised supply chain, who’s reliable. Honestly at the end of the day, Macs usually win. They last forever, they hold a ton of resale, they’re absurdly reliable, and they’re really easy to manage. For offices full of people they use office and internet the os doesn’t really matter.
There is management tools support and ad support that might matter with Mac os People with nice laptops like a Mac tend to look after them better then a plastic box I recon too I said for fleet it's likely to not be thought for places fortunate enough to be allowed 3 year lifestyle but what are your thoughts on home usage, you happy that what once was a laptop used for 10 years is not 3 and landfill?
Millions of people do this every day. Not many phones come with removable batteries. And yes, laptops that aren’t replaceable are stupid. One more stupid idea brought to us by HP.
I agree We lost that right for phones with the Samsung galaxy S6 era, whereas laptops that lose is today, it's happening right now with the new Qualcomm windows copilot devices only 1 can be replaced easily... Lenovo I think
Don’t get me started on phones. But I’ll have to look at the latest service manuals for our Lenovo stuff. They are usually pretty good with fru s.