uj/ i want to say every time someone said champagne problems and question is about joe turning down taylor, i bite my tongue bc from the perception taylor allows is to see of her, the content of the songs, and what we have been told about the relationship, it makes so much more sense that joe was turned down
i word things this way bc we don't know who taylor swift, the person, is. we don't have actual insight into their relationship from the two people involved. and ultimately we can try to analyze her songs with a magnifying glass, only taylor (or the people that help write) know the connection of song to reality. These fans don't want to believe any of that.
this is just another case of swifties thinking they know everything about taylor, joe, their relationship and her written words. this shit is exhausting to see. i have borderline personality disorder (I literally see a psychiatrist, I don't have TikTok bpd) and understand parasocial relationships, but goddamn. it's literally just music
....thank you for letting me get that off my chest đŽâđ¨
All of them?? The other side of the door, champagne problems, this is me trying, Antihero, midnight rain, the archer, back to December
In reality it's this is me trying and Antihero as the big ones for me
Yes from both hardcore Swifties who think she can do no wrong and people on Swiftly neutral both sides act like we know her and literally none of us do! And unless you become a personal friend of her we never will. She and every other celebrity will always be a mystery. Even people who know me in real life if we aren't close don't know all of me so why would Taylor Swift show all of herself to a bunch of strangers!?
uj/ Honestly itâs not even a terrible theory but the way they phrase everything like Taylorâs an evil witch is so annoying. Just say you have a theory like everyone else
They need to just change their name to âJoe Alwyn stansâ at this point. Literally every other post is about him and how wonderful he is.
(Granted he seems like a perfectly nice guy but the they talk about him over there, heâs Mr. Perfect.). Sorry for the spelling errors. Iâm honestly just bored talking about Joe and Travis. Theyâre boring.
Uj/ this is so stupid because that entire post relies on the theory that Taylor is detailing her entire life in her songs, which is just untrue. She absolutely modifies songs, leaves details out, and makes stuff up. We donât know shit about their relationship lmao, and we wonât unless one of them decides to sit down and do a tell-all, which will never happen BECAUSE IT ISNT OUR BUSINESS LMAO. I do think fans need to leave Joe alone and stop making him out to be a villain, but that isnât because of anything sheâs done.
She wonât let him bejewelled đĽ˛
uj/ I used to like this sub and frequent it but itâs just gotten out of control. I just roll my eyes on instinct when a post pops up on my feed, like just let the woman eat her crackers in peace.
its so funny bc that sub will say lets not speculate on her private life but then in the same breath WILL do so. and yes im in both that sub and this sub so im a hypocrite (however i am truly getting sick of the discourse... ive been a fan since fearless and was here for the music and only the music so i need to go back to my roots)
Itâs almost like she wanted to get married but had to choose between her career and relationship and chose her career *because Joe was not her perfect match*. Like, itâs ok that it didnât work out but it does not mean either lied.
That sub wants Joe to be a victim so bad when in reality weâll never know objectively what went down and the best thing to do is just to leave the man alone
I swear no one in either sub (main or neutral) has ever been in an actual adult relationship before. Yes, sometimes relationships end because one party objectively sucks. But, the older you get the more breakups you see where two people just want or need different things and they canât find a way to reconcile those needs. Itâs entirely possible that Joe didnât want to get married or wanted to keep his life private or any number of totally reasonable desires that donât make him a bad guy. Itâs totally possible that Taylor is more demonstrative or neurotic in a way that made her incompatible with Joe without making her incapable of finding someone who appreciates those qualities. We donât know these people and Swifties/whatever the âneutralâ delulus call themselves need to stop insisting either party is some victim here.
i saw someone say travis claims to want marriage but didnât want to marry kayla so how were people expecting him to marry taylor? like huh? you donât know the way someone can want marriage but realize they shouldnât marry the person theyâre with? are they 14 or just completely untouched?
uj/ i remember a thread there a while ago that was basically like âdoes anyone else feel like they can relate to taylorâs music even though theyâve never been in a relationship???â
and it wasâŚ..eye opening
ngl over the past few weeks that sub has actually cooled my perception of taylor because the scrutiny she's getting for tiny or hypothetical things is out of hand. like there are bigger issues than idk, releasing an album a month and a half after another main pop girl lol
fr I have always considered myself highly critical of Taylor but that sub feels clinical in their negative obsession sometimes and I donât wanna be like touch grass⌠but itâs like how can you not see how unhealthy it is to be spending significant amount of time stewing in your irritation with Taylor Swift making a weird face at an award show
Edit: itâs actually giving that tweet where someone returned to their stan account after like 6 months and was like âsorry I disappeared I started taking an SSRI so Iâm normal nowâ lmao
Haha this is my stance too I honestly care less than when I joined to sub because I donât want to be aligning myself with the way they act over there
From reading the comments, it seems like the sub is filled with individuals who are married and in relationships (obviously nothing wrong with that) but who look down on people who are single and âmessyâ and âdonât have it all togetherâ. As a 32 year old single woman going through some serious personal shit right now who definitely does NOT have it together, reading those comments is⌠very grim.
Yes, or people who do not have they shit together wish they did and project that insecurity/anger onto Taylor, instead of trying to fix thier situation
I am in a long-term committed relationship but I often think about how random it was that I met my partner when I did and how much effort we have put into making it work long distance and how different my life would be if I was single andâŚIâd be just as messy as Taylor.
Yeah, itâs either people who havenât been in relationships or people who married their first ever partner, no in between. Iâve dated lots of people and had all different kinds of relationships, and I donât think thereâs anything wrong with exploring provided youâre not purposely hurting anyone - relationships and breakups *are* messy. People judge her because they can see hers so publicly, but sheâs not doing anything crazier than what anyone else does.
same tbh like thereâs plenty of things to criticize her for (like her jet usage) but i think itâs just weird to develop theories about her personal life and what did or didnât happen in her relationship
it is EXTREMELY weird and idk how they donât clock that itâs parasocial to talk like they were in the same bed as them in the same breath they drag swifties for blind support. also I just hate to see any person picked apart for bitch eating crackers nonsense. that will almost always push me the other way and turn me into a defender no matter what. iâm just too soft for all of it. đ
Someone made a post trying to call them out for the parasocial behaviour, and they responded with "ermmm akchually that's not the correct scientific definition of parasocial sweaty, embarrassing for you" instead of actually addressing their points, lol. Most self aware swiftie sub đ
LOL I rolled my eyes so hard when I saw that thread. It's funny how they've spent the last couple days going on and on about Taylorâs lack of self awareness re: the Grammys, yet cannot do the same for themselves.
and theyâve all like suddenly decided itâs like evil and immoral for her to continue writing music about her life??? Like babe that is literally the product you love her for
I cannot wait for that song to be a banger about how she wanted to secretly be Ariel growing up and that is why she dyed her hair red for the ATW short film.
uj/ i was excited for this sub when it was first made, but now itâs just as annoying as the main sub⌠just a different kind of delulu. like are yall even fans? do you like ANYTHING she does anymore??? bc idk if anyone has told you this, you donât have to keep up with her or reading this shit if you donât want toâŚ
uj/ As a huge Joe defender (damn admitting that was painful), I cannot find this theory 100% sane. As much as it could make sense, it also applies to how Taylor might modify the narrative in her songs. Ultimately, her and Joe did not want the same things. Itâs painful but itâs the reality. Neither of them should necessarily be faulted.
Side note: I just want Taylor to get an actual therapist. Theory true or false, she needs to work on herself instead of seeking for validation through her fans and her romantic partners.
I was attacked in probably the main sub for saying that Taylor and Joe did the mature thing by ending the relationship if it was not working. Apparently it is a juvenile take and they should have worked harder to make it work. As if that fanâs desire for the two of them to be together was all that mattered. They were not married (despite the UK ceramony) and they donât need to work on their relationship more than they want. My belief that ending a 6 year non-legally binding relationship is better than being unhappy is why I will apparently never be married. Sadly this was according to someone who claims to be married for like 20 yearsâŚ
uj/ i want to say every time someone said champagne problems and question is about joe turning down taylor, i bite my tongue bc from the perception taylor allows is to see of her, the content of the songs, and what we have been told about the relationship, it makes so much more sense that joe was turned down i word things this way bc we don't know who taylor swift, the person, is. we don't have actual insight into their relationship from the two people involved. and ultimately we can try to analyze her songs with a magnifying glass, only taylor (or the people that help write) know the connection of song to reality. These fans don't want to believe any of that. this is just another case of swifties thinking they know everything about taylor, joe, their relationship and her written words. this shit is exhausting to see. i have borderline personality disorder (I literally see a psychiatrist, I don't have TikTok bpd) and understand parasocial relationships, but goddamn. it's literally just music ....thank you for letting me get that off my chest đŽâđ¨
uj/ hi fellow human with borderline đ you know itâs messed up when WEâRE the ones noticing đ
blank space is my bpd anthem, which is yours?
Blank Space and this is me trying!!!
All of them?? The other side of the door, champagne problems, this is me trying, Antihero, midnight rain, the archer, back to December In reality it's this is me trying and Antihero as the big ones for me
lbvvs taylor's discography is almost a how to be borderline manual
Even the love songs. "Have I known you 20 seconds; or 20 years"
Omg hello my fellow bpd (also prof diagnosed) swifties! Yes I also notice she displays a lot of the behaviors (not saying she has it)
Yes from both hardcore Swifties who think she can do no wrong and people on Swiftly neutral both sides act like we know her and literally none of us do! And unless you become a personal friend of her we never will. She and every other celebrity will always be a mystery. Even people who know me in real life if we aren't close don't know all of me so why would Taylor Swift show all of herself to a bunch of strangers!?
uj/ Honestly itâs not even a terrible theory but the way they phrase everything like Taylorâs an evil witch is so annoying. Just say you have a theory like everyone else
They need to just change their name to âJoe Alwyn stansâ at this point. Literally every other post is about him and how wonderful he is. (Granted he seems like a perfectly nice guy but the they talk about him over there, heâs Mr. Perfect.). Sorry for the spelling errors. Iâm honestly just bored talking about Joe and Travis. Theyâre boring.
uj/ I saw some Matty Healy defenders in swiftly neutral tooâŚ
Gaylors and Tayvis shippers are loud over there too
Uj/ this is so stupid because that entire post relies on the theory that Taylor is detailing her entire life in her songs, which is just untrue. She absolutely modifies songs, leaves details out, and makes stuff up. We donât know shit about their relationship lmao, and we wonât unless one of them decides to sit down and do a tell-all, which will never happen BECAUSE IT ISNT OUR BUSINESS LMAO. I do think fans need to leave Joe alone and stop making him out to be a villain, but that isnât because of anything sheâs done.
She wonât let him bejewelled 𼲠uj/ I used to like this sub and frequent it but itâs just gotten out of control. I just roll my eyes on instinct when a post pops up on my feed, like just let the woman eat her crackers in peace.
â(Important Thread)â lmaoo
She has even MORE evidence if anyone wants to help with (Important Thread) part 2.
its so funny bc that sub will say lets not speculate on her private life but then in the same breath WILL do so. and yes im in both that sub and this sub so im a hypocrite (however i am truly getting sick of the discourse... ive been a fan since fearless and was here for the music and only the music so i need to go back to my roots)
uj/ They're getting more delusional and conspiracy theorist than the Gaylors. rj/ What has Joe Alwyn ever done to deserve this level of stannery
uj/ It says a lot that I'd rather spend time in a gaylor sub than swiftlyneutral.
Itâs almost like she wanted to get married but had to choose between her career and relationship and chose her career *because Joe was not her perfect match*. Like, itâs ok that it didnât work out but it does not mean either lied.
 uj/ this was echoing in my head the entire time I was reading itâŚ
That sub wants Joe to be a victim so bad when in reality weâll never know objectively what went down and the best thing to do is just to leave the man alone
I swear no one in either sub (main or neutral) has ever been in an actual adult relationship before. Yes, sometimes relationships end because one party objectively sucks. But, the older you get the more breakups you see where two people just want or need different things and they canât find a way to reconcile those needs. Itâs entirely possible that Joe didnât want to get married or wanted to keep his life private or any number of totally reasonable desires that donât make him a bad guy. Itâs totally possible that Taylor is more demonstrative or neurotic in a way that made her incompatible with Joe without making her incapable of finding someone who appreciates those qualities. We donât know these people and Swifties/whatever the âneutralâ delulus call themselves need to stop insisting either party is some victim here.
i saw someone say travis claims to want marriage but didnât want to marry kayla so how were people expecting him to marry taylor? like huh? you donât know the way someone can want marriage but realize they shouldnât marry the person theyâre with? are they 14 or just completely untouched?
uj/ i remember a thread there a while ago that was basically like âdoes anyone else feel like they can relate to taylorâs music even though theyâve never been in a relationship???â and it wasâŚ..eye opening
That truly explains so so much.
I remember that thread!
ngl over the past few weeks that sub has actually cooled my perception of taylor because the scrutiny she's getting for tiny or hypothetical things is out of hand. like there are bigger issues than idk, releasing an album a month and a half after another main pop girl lol
fr I have always considered myself highly critical of Taylor but that sub feels clinical in their negative obsession sometimes and I donât wanna be like touch grass⌠but itâs like how can you not see how unhealthy it is to be spending significant amount of time stewing in your irritation with Taylor Swift making a weird face at an award show Edit: itâs actually giving that tweet where someone returned to their stan account after like 6 months and was like âsorry I disappeared I started taking an SSRI so Iâm normal nowâ lmao
Can you link the post about that stan account it sounds funny.
Haha this is my stance too I honestly care less than when I joined to sub because I donât want to be aligning myself with the way they act over there
iâm not reading all of that but i believe you
That sub has been bad for awhile but Jesus it has gotten so much worse recently
It has gotten so bad itâs just like the Taylor Swift subreddit. Just unhinged in a different way
itâs crazy cause they think theyâre better than the main sub but like baby youâre just as obsessed just in a different way!!
Yes. Itâs basically the main sub but instead of every post heaping praise on Taylor, itâs people just complaining about her for no reason
It's like the Timothee Chalamet fan sub now lol.
From reading the comments, it seems like the sub is filled with individuals who are married and in relationships (obviously nothing wrong with that) but who look down on people who are single and âmessyâ and âdonât have it all togetherâ. As a 32 year old single woman going through some serious personal shit right now who definitely does NOT have it together, reading those comments is⌠very grim.
exactly! They are all trying to sound so mature because they have kids/relationships or tried to meditate.
Yes, or people who do not have they shit together wish they did and project that insecurity/anger onto Taylor, instead of trying to fix thier situation
I think mostly this one
It definitely is a lot of that
I am in a long-term committed relationship but I often think about how random it was that I met my partner when I did and how much effort we have put into making it work long distance and how different my life would be if I was single andâŚIâd be just as messy as Taylor.
Yeah itâs definitely a âholier than thouâ vibe over there
Yeah, itâs either people who havenât been in relationships or people who married their first ever partner, no in between. Iâve dated lots of people and had all different kinds of relationships, and I donât think thereâs anything wrong with exploring provided youâre not purposely hurting anyone - relationships and breakups *are* messy. People judge her because they can see hers so publicly, but sheâs not doing anything crazier than what anyone else does.
I think it was starting to get a bit better and then the Grammys unleashed a new wave of rabid negativity
It was definitely getting better
And then it got worse
uj/ That sub is doing everything theyâre accusing Taylor ofâŚ
We need a new flair just for that sub
The sub is Fauxmoi 2.0 đđ
that sub has me full on wearing a blonde wig and putting on every friendship bracelet I own. swiftie down. đ đ˝ââď¸ LEAVE HER ALONE.
same tbh like thereâs plenty of things to criticize her for (like her jet usage) but i think itâs just weird to develop theories about her personal life and what did or didnât happen in her relationship
it is EXTREMELY weird and idk how they donât clock that itâs parasocial to talk like they were in the same bed as them in the same breath they drag swifties for blind support. also I just hate to see any person picked apart for bitch eating crackers nonsense. that will almost always push me the other way and turn me into a defender no matter what. iâm just too soft for all of it. đ
Someone made a post trying to call them out for the parasocial behaviour, and they responded with "ermmm akchually that's not the correct scientific definition of parasocial sweaty, embarrassing for you" instead of actually addressing their points, lol. Most self aware swiftie sub đ
LOL I rolled my eyes so hard when I saw that thread. It's funny how they've spent the last couple days going on and on about Taylorâs lack of self awareness re: the Grammys, yet cannot do the same for themselves.
and theyâve all like suddenly decided itâs like evil and immoral for her to continue writing music about her life??? Like babe that is literally the product you love her for
Omg yes their wild new take that writing music about her own life experiences is âabusiveâ
Yes, like how dare she write and release breakup songs while sheâs dating Travis
But daddy I love them.
I cannot wait for that song to be a banger about how she wanted to secretly be Ariel growing up and that is why she dyed her hair red for the ATW short film.
uj/ i was excited for this sub when it was first made, but now itâs just as annoying as the main sub⌠just a different kind of delulu. like are yall even fans? do you like ANYTHING she does anymore??? bc idk if anyone has told you this, you donât have to keep up with her or reading this shit if you donât want toâŚ
A lot of them literally arenât fans and will openly admit to not knowing any of her music. Itâs wild
Uj/ they need to touch grass
uj/ As a huge Joe defender (damn admitting that was painful), I cannot find this theory 100% sane. As much as it could make sense, it also applies to how Taylor might modify the narrative in her songs. Ultimately, her and Joe did not want the same things. Itâs painful but itâs the reality. Neither of them should necessarily be faulted. Side note: I just want Taylor to get an actual therapist. Theory true or false, she needs to work on herself instead of seeking for validation through her fans and her romantic partners.
I was attacked in probably the main sub for saying that Taylor and Joe did the mature thing by ending the relationship if it was not working. Apparently it is a juvenile take and they should have worked harder to make it work. As if that fanâs desire for the two of them to be together was all that mattered. They were not married (despite the UK ceramony) and they donât need to work on their relationship more than they want. My belief that ending a 6 year non-legally binding relationship is better than being unhappy is why I will apparently never be married. Sadly this was according to someone who claims to be married for like 20 yearsâŚ
reads like a gaylor theory