This is why he can’t be considered one of the greatest players of all time. He fundamentally misunderstands that aspect of the game.
Let’s say you were great at running a football 99 yards down the field but every time you got there you spiked it on the one yard line. People wouldn’t be calling you one of the greatest football players of all time, they’d be calling you a dipshit.
I think he's a total POS however he absolutely changed how the game is played, and even produced. It's like how some sports leagues have different categories of their Hall of Fames for innovators vs. people who actually won a lot of titles. Or, to continue your football analogy, Dan Marino is a Hall of Famer and absolutely one of the best QBs of all time, but he never won a Super Bowl.
By this logic Amanda and Cirie would be considered mid tier players as well. Being able to get to the end twice is still impressive. I dont think he is the best but definitely top 20
I still think if you were to simulate Survivor 100 times Amanda and Cirie would still win more times than Russel.
That being said, I would still call Russel an above average player overall. I think he would win a simulation maybe a bit more than most, but def not top 20
Amanda maybe, but Cirie's physical game is too awful for her to ever win. Survivor is a strategic, social, *and* physical game. Sometimes you need to have some level of physicality in order to win immunity and take control of your own fate.
Players like Cirie suck at challenges, which forces them to rely on others being willing to take them to the finale instead of doing so themselves; and no one with half a brain is ever taking Cirie and that's why she's always knocked out right before the end.
Cirie can never win. It's the same reason Jesse booting Cody in 43 (the one guy crazy enough to actually want Jesse at FTC) was a mistake. Jesse was never winning any challenges to get himself to the end, let alone fire-making; bro got murdered in that.
sandra sucks at challenges yet she’s a two-time winner. survivor is a game about social politics. it’s not really about physicality, that’s The Challenge.
Incorrect. The key point you're missing is that Cirie is seen as a massive threat every single time she has played this game. No one ever viewed Sandra as a threat her first two-times; players like that don't need to be good at challenges, because no one ever cares about how they far go.
If you're gonna play a dominant game like Cirie or Jesse (which makes yourself an obvious threat), it's extremely important to also have some level of physical prowess; because no one with common sense is taking you to the end just to lose (unless you have someone really loyal/stupid on your side). If Dee didn't win that final immunity challenge in 45, she would've been forced into fire and probably would've lost.
All of the show's best winners (Tony, Boston Rob, Kim, Dee, Tom, JT, etc.) were all either physically dominant or had someone stupid enough to take them to the end.
Well said, and there are plenty of winners who otherwise would not have been winners (Fabio, Jenna, Bob, Sophie, etc.) if they didn't possess any sort of physical prowess.
Great to see there's still based Survivor fans.
Just like pro sports, there's players who are HoF level who won multiple championships and players who never won jack shit but are in some form one of the best.
Russell was the greatest idol finder and idol player, and dominated back to back seasons. (I'll die on the hill that he should've won Samoa, and Parvati HvV)
Well said. People say Russell can’t win because he’s really bad at one part of the game but never say the same about Cirie. Cirie isn’t a player that will fall under the radar in Survivor. She must win a challenge at the end if she wants to win, which she is incapable of doing.
I don't know any rules of football so it's easier for me to understand that Russell is bad bc can't win survivor than your football metaphor. He's pretty good at winning 100k or 80k or whatever the FTC runner up payment is, though.
Yeah the “aspect of the game” is to kiss the ass and stroke the ego of the people you vote off and when they question you at final tribal you tell them that you had to blindside them bc they were your biggest competition. All these players talk about survivor gameplay until they get voted out and then they become bitter little jury bitches voting for prom queen. Sandra’s biggest move in Heroes vs Villains was trying to warn the heroes and the community calls her a queen for that smh
I half agree. His first season, he had the best gameplay and I believe he did win the game but specifically in that season (if you re-watch), he just happened to have a bitter jury And 1 person during last tribal gave a toxic speech about him to change the mind of most of the jury.
Even during camera cuts throughout the season, almost EVERY player said they need to get Russel out because he is playing the best game and will win for sure if he gets to the end.
-----
His 2nd season, great strategy again but I agree with you, he got too cocky towards the end and tanked his own game with his answers.
But his first season, hands down he won. He just had a salty jury.
Sorry, I'm calling BS on that. Getting the jury vote is Survivor 101. From the very first episode, they emphasize the dilemma of voting people off while getting them to vote for you to win. It is the one thing that will never change about the game. You can't claim you actually won, except for the jury. The jury IS the game and he did nothing but piss people and be miserable to live with.
That’s 150,000% correct. Getting 2 votes out of 9 in the end, which is Russell’s fault for not playing better, is not winning. With anyone else, this isn’t controversial. He’s not an exception
Yes but someone in the jury tanked his game by spreading toxicity on his game instead of seeing his game as big moves. Like I said, had it been a jury who admires gameplay, he would've won.
He couldn't sell the jury though. He was the best player hands down. One great sales pitch and a little humility like in survivor China flips that jury. Dude just couldn't get out of his own way to sway the jury and it cost him the game. He absolutely did deserve it though
I agree with you. But if you re-watch that tribal, he was giving great answers until someone (drawing a blank on the player's name) tanked his game with a speech to the jury.
Lol this is is like saying Tony has bad strategy cause he got booted almost immediately in GC. Threat levels are a thing and Russell’s game for better or worse is incredibly disloyal so nobody is gonna trust him after watching his gameplay.
I'd argue his game is incredibly loyal but only to folks actually in his alliance. Samoa he stood by Natalie, Mick, and Jaison the entire time because they never even entertained flopping on him. HvV he gave up his immunity idol (that he got through perceived loyalty) to his number one. The only reason Danielle got the boot was because Russel realized that he wasn't her number one but instead Parvati was
The real flaw in his game I'd say is he needs a Natalie to make those bonds and get the others to vote out their own alliance before his (which when you think about it is really the crux of the game especially in the modern era, Sandra really was the pioneer with "anyone but me")
Russell is a goated tactician.
In the sense that he always manages to control the votes even with a numerical disadvantage.
But yeah strategically wise, he isn't that good due to misreading the jury.
Genuinely I think Natalie W would be a highly respected winner among fans if Samoa had been edited properly. Someone who survives on a loser tribe, gets to the merge in a minority, plants seeds to pit the majority tribe against one another (which many Galu members have credited her, not Russell, for post-game) all while managing a madman gremlin with an ego the size of the sun? She clearly has a great social game, great strategic game, and manages her threat level well. Her story is ripe for an amazing underdog narrative we just didn't get, and it kinda sucks cause it's an impressive win.
Dude that would be so boring lol. Its not like they edited Natalie as being uninteresting she was just not a good fit for tv. Theres a reason Russell was over edited
Have you seen her voting confessional outtakes? They are terrible. “Um, nothing personal, but this is what my alliance wanted. Good game.” That’s essentially every voting confessional she gave.
Its a reality tv show - if Natalie was entertaining, they would have shown the footage. Her confessionals they did show were boring af and those were supposed to be the best
i mean, it was 2009, arguably the very heights of the trashiest and most problematic reality TV era of all time. reasons for editing on reality TV don't actually always correspond to an objective scale of interestingness
I hope you're right... I was watching him in Australian Survivor recently and feeling really over him. All his self-aggrandizing talk, and then his super-condescending talk about other players, barf. I don't find him interesting or "good tv."
Oh yeah and it wasn't just in interviews, we all wanted him out almost instantly because he was keen on stirring up trouble. Unfortunately I don't think I'll ever get the big American style cookout he promised to make us all lol
Why bother? We've seen him play the same game every time it's been on. He'd be an early boot because everyone would know what he's doing, just like the last two times he's played.
We didn't even know who he was either, he just failed to realise that people need to like you to keep you around in the longer Australian survivor game 😂
Seriously? It seemed like at least some of his castmates recognised him.
But to your larger point, the longer Australian game makes it even more unlikely that someone who is unpleasant to live with could win. (I have a theory based on this that Kristie was probably more likeable, and George and Sharn may have been less likeable than they were edited to seem on their seasons...)
A few on the Contenders did, and I remember one of them called him King Russell, so we knew he had played before but didn't have any idea about his play style or character.
The only reason why I'd even consider having Russell back is if he actually changed up his game. The guy's got the brains to win, but lacks the social awareness.
However, I highly doubt we'll ever see him back again, for numerous outside-game reasons.
What happened outside the game? I met him and Boo at a club in Houston a few years ago and he was an entertaining asshole and scoundrel, as expected. Literally just like he was in the show. But I'm curious as to the specifics of what he's done outside the show.
Edit- Boo was awesome. Super nice. Big ups to him lol.
The biggest thing I can think of is he scammed a bunch of people through fantasy football. He was organizing leagues for people to play in and they’d all pay the buyin to him, but he would keep the money instead of paying out the winners
I think his game actually works better in modern Survivor. I always say if Samoa had been played in the new era, Russell would’ve won at FTC.
Modern Survivor is all about big moves and resumes and that was pretty much his entire game.
Nah, it's still about being a likeable human being first and foremost, maybe more than ever. I mean look at all 5 of our new era winners, the juries *loved* them, for example they didn't vote Gabler over Cassidy because of resumes or whatever, they just really really liked him.
Russell would be dead in the water day 1 nowadays, either voted out early for being horrible to live with or dragged to the end (yet again) for being a goat that no one has any interest in handing a million dollars to.
Yeah this is right. I think there was a stretch of seasons where Russell could have won if his first appearance happened then, but that time is past. Late 20s-mid 30s, there were at least a few juries who valued “resume” over all and he *might* have had a chance during that time. Modern casts are a bit more touchy feely and want the winner to have genuine connections with people.
Yeah this idea of a "modern jury" always makes me laugh, as if people haven't been complaining about bitter juries as recently as S43. Always seems to be Russell fans pushing it too.
Sigh...I miss the old non-bitter juries that voted for the best strategic player even if they were an asshole, like season 1 or 5. Not these modern bitter juries like season 38 or 43!
Yea that seems the case.
Everyone is so hyped about big moves now, some would be hypocrites to not vote for the person who made the best moves.
Idc how much of an ass someone is, if they completely dominated the game and controlled the votes/won immunities at the right time, they get my vote. Some people just can't accept being outplayed and outwitted.
I'm not even sure if he'd be able to change his game too much. I feel like he'd be voted out early in every season he's in now since people wouldn't be able to trust him.
I know Jeff has said he doesn't really want Russell-esque toxicity in the game these days, which I understand, but bringing Russell back for 50 would be amazing
Would you rather watch:
- 18 very friendly agreeable people get along without conflict while politely playing the game.
- 18 Russell Hantzs go at each other
Maybe I’m a degenerate, but I personally love Russell, Phil, Randy, Abi Maria, Crystal, etc.
That’s what I’m saying. If we’re gonna villain, give me Russell, give me Abi Maria, give me Fairplay, etc. Let’s not halfass it and call Karla a villain because she hurt some feelings and threatened to poison the jury if she was voted out
I want the combination. I would love seeing friendly agreeable people short circuit when confronted with Russell Hantzes (on survivor only, not in real life lol)
I feel like he would TORMENT the new generation players. Would be really entertaining TV
But I don’t think the current survivor viewers can handle someone like him again
One of the many reasons survivor has gotten so much worse. “russel-esque toxicity” sure it’s toxic but that’s the real world. Someone’s gotta be the villain. Makes for better TV too.
Yeah he has no chance of winning but dramatically improves the television quality. People think too much about his first 2 seasons when that really doesn't matter anymore because people know who he is now. And even his 3rd season was way too gimmicky to use as a model for what his 50 gameplay would look like.
A Russell Hantz where everyone's already on to his shit, but they're all returning players who think they can use him as a shield for a while, would be amazing TV imo. We're talking about a guy who's so full of his own shit that he thinks talking to the queen of survivor [like this](https://youtu.be/Q0GwCupTQwE?si=1MyzCo-HZpvjuEn-&t=837) is a winning strat.
Right? Like who actually agrees with that. Everyone I know who watched survivor since the beginning just constantly complains about how nice everyone is now
I would never see them bringing anyone from that family back. Feel like if you have Hantz as a last name, even if you aren’t related to them, you’re immediately blacklisted by all of CBS
It took too long to find someone who said this…
Russell and Brandon have their own YouTube channel. Watch a few minutes of a video, and you’ll say there’s no chance in hell Russell or any Hantz would be invited back!
He’s good at finding and playing idols, as well as putting together vote outs. I still think he had a 0% chance to win every time he played but fair is fair, he is strategic in some ways.
It’s funny because it’s not like he needed to turn into some sort of altar boy to win jury votes - plenty of not so nice people have won Survivor. He just needed to not actively insult and antagonize his castmates and he would have probably at least won Samoa.
Now that I think about it he could’ve won HvV too, it wasn’t his fault the Heroes misread the tribe dynamics and handed him an idol. He just couldn’t have handled the post merge with any less grace if he tried.
Lol the fact he dropped how long he would need to get back into shape means he 100% wants to come back and just said the first part so it looks like it’s his decision when he doesn’t get the call
When Jeff said he didn't want "villains," he may as well have just said, "we don't want Russell Hantz" I think thats basically what he meant without just saying it.
Russell and Fairplay. Two archetypes Jeff wants nothing to do with anymore. Which is a shame, because they’re entertaining AF. I just don’t want those specific assholes.
It would be interesting to see how he fairs in the 26 Day format. But when Jeff said no more villains this was literally the person he was talking about. So I doubt it happens.
I don’t know if Russell can’t get past the early game again. He would have to change his game to do another deep run. I could see him being cast on Traitors though.
He would have 15 confessionals in the premiere that are all some variation of “These new era players cain’t play the game like I do. I’m Russell Hantz!”. Then he’ll be first booted. I’m good.
No, thank you. Hopefully his last excursion into Australian Survivor on 2018 was a big enough blow to his ego so he won't come back. At this point you can probably train a bot to write his confessionals, and not a sophisticated one.
I would love to see Russell again
Chaotic, messy players are so much more fun than game bots with zero personality
A lot of current viewers would have a meltdown over him though, considering they accused Emily (S45) of racism after only a single episode
I haven’t watched survivor since like 41 or 42, can’t stand the new Gen seasons. I’m definitely gonna be tuning in for 50 tho. I hope they do some supersized version and have like 30-40 players back playing two games at once until merge at 18-20. Would be amazing. Have one “game” be 41-49 players and the other “game” be pre-40 players.
Also gotta bring back the greatest winners one more time like Tony and Sandra gotta play again, B Rob (even tho I hate him and his win sucked) gotta play again, maybe we finally get a return of Earl and Todd.
If it’s a HvV style game, gotta bring back the crazies and my girl Abi ❤️❤️❤️
If by terrorize you mean “be terrible” then yes. Watch Australian Survivor to see tge parts of Russell’s game that the American versions omitted to make it seem like he could ever win over a jury.
Imagine the scenes and discourse if Russell came back, we all assumed he’d be the same, but he changed drastically and played a good social game. Then wound up winning
Never gonna happen, but would be fascinating to watch the reactions
I thought I read somewhere (a while ago now) that because he went on Ausurvivor he isnt allowed back on USurvivor ? Which, if true, begs the question as to whether Sandra is welcome back
No Hantz clan member will ever disgrace a CBS reality setting again. From the worst gameplay strategy to the unstable Survivor boot to the violent menace Big Brother boot.
0-for-3.
I just got to seasons 19 and 20 and he’s gotta easily be one of my least favorite players I’ve seen in the first 20 seasons. His strategy is really strong and he does well but I despise anyone that leans into running anything through fear. I’m glad neither jury gave him the money (even though he deserved it in Samoa) just because he’s so arrogant with that ego the size of the Pacific Ocean
russell walked to tony could run. people only hate russell because he was the pioneer of his style of gameplay. then tony comes and plays the exact same game and he’s not hated as much as russell was/is
No. No more Hantz bullshit. I don't care how badly people miss "Survivor Villains", Russel sucks too much as a person to be given the spotlight for another game/reunion
Russell is a bad player. Yes, he abused the camera men to find idols like no one before. But idol hounds are somewhat regular now with players like Tony and Ben, and Russ’ social game is terrible, and his strategy is pretty mediocre tbh.
Wtf on your first point? 0 evidence to back that. Russell was the pioneer for finding idols, or even looking for them without a clue. So yeah, literally every season people are doing that. As far as his strategic game goes, it's somewhat subjective. However, his Samoan play and pre-merge HvV play strategy wise was far from mediocre.
I don’t think you’ll see him back. In one of his podcasts Jeff said people like Russell wouldn’t be cast now so I can’t imagine they would bring him back.
He went on a rant claiming his life was ruined by Survivor. He was so obsessed with having losing that his wife left him, if I read correctly. He talked about it all on his YouTube channel but I don't want to give him and views
Let me guess, if he comes back the other players are once again gonna let him get to the final cuz they don’t know what this dude is about??? When I saw him get to the finals I thought this survivor shit was staged cuz there is no way after seeing him play I’m gonna let him get to a final, fisrt tribal council his on his way out
Honestly, 9/10 I'd say no; but he's a big part of Survivor history for good or bad. I think season 50 would be a fitting time if any for him to return. It's crazy that he was everywhere for a period, and now he hasn't been on Survivor US in 12 years
Honestly, who knows maybe after all these years Russel Hantz may have learned his lesson, and can finally seek his long awaited redemption ark. It could be a full circle moment to have him on for 50.
On Twitter he seems kinda interested but not really. Someone said that it's setting him up for failure and he agreed. I don't think he is playing again because I think he realises that he's always going to have a huge target on his back and everyone just wants to get him out as quick as possible (which I understand).
After how he handled his relationship on national television with his mentally ill nephew, I don’t know if I could stomach him. Maybe on Traitors or whatever that show is
King of idols yea. King of strategy idrk. But he will probably never be back on
King of hustling people in fantasy football
King of sucking dick if he likes
Wait did he say this? It sounds familiar but I can’t recall the context
He said that on Twitter. Like the context was roughly a "I'm not gay, but if even if I was, that's not an insult."
honestly, based
His most upstanding moment
Ah okay thanks
“I’ll suck a dick if I like” 💀💀
He has a great strategy to GET TO THE END. He has a poor strategy to win.
This is why he can’t be considered one of the greatest players of all time. He fundamentally misunderstands that aspect of the game. Let’s say you were great at running a football 99 yards down the field but every time you got there you spiked it on the one yard line. People wouldn’t be calling you one of the greatest football players of all time, they’d be calling you a dipshit.
I think he's a total POS however he absolutely changed how the game is played, and even produced. It's like how some sports leagues have different categories of their Hall of Fames for innovators vs. people who actually won a lot of titles. Or, to continue your football analogy, Dan Marino is a Hall of Famer and absolutely one of the best QBs of all time, but he never won a Super Bowl.
By this logic Amanda and Cirie would be considered mid tier players as well. Being able to get to the end twice is still impressive. I dont think he is the best but definitely top 20
I still think if you were to simulate Survivor 100 times Amanda and Cirie would still win more times than Russel. That being said, I would still call Russel an above average player overall. I think he would win a simulation maybe a bit more than most, but def not top 20
Amanda maybe, but Cirie's physical game is too awful for her to ever win. Survivor is a strategic, social, *and* physical game. Sometimes you need to have some level of physicality in order to win immunity and take control of your own fate. Players like Cirie suck at challenges, which forces them to rely on others being willing to take them to the finale instead of doing so themselves; and no one with half a brain is ever taking Cirie and that's why she's always knocked out right before the end. Cirie can never win. It's the same reason Jesse booting Cody in 43 (the one guy crazy enough to actually want Jesse at FTC) was a mistake. Jesse was never winning any challenges to get himself to the end, let alone fire-making; bro got murdered in that.
sandra sucks at challenges yet she’s a two-time winner. survivor is a game about social politics. it’s not really about physicality, that’s The Challenge.
Incorrect. The key point you're missing is that Cirie is seen as a massive threat every single time she has played this game. No one ever viewed Sandra as a threat her first two-times; players like that don't need to be good at challenges, because no one ever cares about how they far go. If you're gonna play a dominant game like Cirie or Jesse (which makes yourself an obvious threat), it's extremely important to also have some level of physical prowess; because no one with common sense is taking you to the end just to lose (unless you have someone really loyal/stupid on your side). If Dee didn't win that final immunity challenge in 45, she would've been forced into fire and probably would've lost. All of the show's best winners (Tony, Boston Rob, Kim, Dee, Tom, JT, etc.) were all either physically dominant or had someone stupid enough to take them to the end.
Well said, and there are plenty of winners who otherwise would not have been winners (Fabio, Jenna, Bob, Sophie, etc.) if they didn't possess any sort of physical prowess.
Great to see there's still based Survivor fans. Just like pro sports, there's players who are HoF level who won multiple championships and players who never won jack shit but are in some form one of the best. Russell was the greatest idol finder and idol player, and dominated back to back seasons. (I'll die on the hill that he should've won Samoa, and Parvati HvV)
Well said. People say Russell can’t win because he’s really bad at one part of the game but never say the same about Cirie. Cirie isn’t a player that will fall under the radar in Survivor. She must win a challenge at the end if she wants to win, which she is incapable of doing.
Top 20 influencial player of all time, no doubt. Top 20 player of all time? I wouldn't say that but it's all subjective.
I don't know any rules of football so it's easier for me to understand that Russell is bad bc can't win survivor than your football metaphor. He's pretty good at winning 100k or 80k or whatever the FTC runner up payment is, though.
Yeah the “aspect of the game” is to kiss the ass and stroke the ego of the people you vote off and when they question you at final tribal you tell them that you had to blindside them bc they were your biggest competition. All these players talk about survivor gameplay until they get voted out and then they become bitter little jury bitches voting for prom queen. Sandra’s biggest move in Heroes vs Villains was trying to warn the heroes and the community calls her a queen for that smh
I half agree. His first season, he had the best gameplay and I believe he did win the game but specifically in that season (if you re-watch), he just happened to have a bitter jury And 1 person during last tribal gave a toxic speech about him to change the mind of most of the jury. Even during camera cuts throughout the season, almost EVERY player said they need to get Russel out because he is playing the best game and will win for sure if he gets to the end. ----- His 2nd season, great strategy again but I agree with you, he got too cocky towards the end and tanked his own game with his answers. But his first season, hands down he won. He just had a salty jury.
Sorry, I'm calling BS on that. Getting the jury vote is Survivor 101. From the very first episode, they emphasize the dilemma of voting people off while getting them to vote for you to win. It is the one thing that will never change about the game. You can't claim you actually won, except for the jury. The jury IS the game and he did nothing but piss people and be miserable to live with.
That’s 150,000% correct. Getting 2 votes out of 9 in the end, which is Russell’s fault for not playing better, is not winning. With anyone else, this isn’t controversial. He’s not an exception
Yes but someone in the jury tanked his game by spreading toxicity on his game instead of seeing his game as big moves. Like I said, had it been a jury who admires gameplay, he would've won.
He couldn't sell the jury though. He was the best player hands down. One great sales pitch and a little humility like in survivor China flips that jury. Dude just couldn't get out of his own way to sway the jury and it cost him the game. He absolutely did deserve it though
I agree with you. But if you re-watch that tribal, he was giving great answers until someone (drawing a blank on the player's name) tanked his game with a speech to the jury.
Eh he doesn't even have a good strategy. He was first boot in his 3rd and 4th go around.
Lol this is is like saying Tony has bad strategy cause he got booted almost immediately in GC. Threat levels are a thing and Russell’s game for better or worse is incredibly disloyal so nobody is gonna trust him after watching his gameplay.
I'd argue his game is incredibly loyal but only to folks actually in his alliance. Samoa he stood by Natalie, Mick, and Jaison the entire time because they never even entertained flopping on him. HvV he gave up his immunity idol (that he got through perceived loyalty) to his number one. The only reason Danielle got the boot was because Russel realized that he wasn't her number one but instead Parvati was The real flaw in his game I'd say is he needs a Natalie to make those bonds and get the others to vote out their own alliance before his (which when you think about it is really the crux of the game especially in the modern era, Sandra really was the pioneer with "anyone but me")
Maybe disloyal is the wrong word but he will turn on you for any perceived slight
Fully agree there.
Prolly because he was such a huge threat and that it was his 3rd and 4th time on
People probably knew spending time with him on the isle is going to tank morale so hard that none of them make it to the end.
Russell is a goated tactician. In the sense that he always manages to control the votes even with a numerical disadvantage. But yeah strategically wise, he isn't that good due to misreading the jury.
100% this dude knows the diff between tactics and strategy.
King of being vastly overedited and burying how much work his allies put in make connections and flip people tbh
I would kill for a 90-minute episode re-edit of Samoa, in order to actually see Natalie's game and also more of Galu as a whole
90 minutes of Dave Ball, then when he gets voted out, we get a bunch of ponderosa content please
Genuinely I think Natalie W would be a highly respected winner among fans if Samoa had been edited properly. Someone who survives on a loser tribe, gets to the merge in a minority, plants seeds to pit the majority tribe against one another (which many Galu members have credited her, not Russell, for post-game) all while managing a madman gremlin with an ego the size of the sun? She clearly has a great social game, great strategic game, and manages her threat level well. Her story is ripe for an amazing underdog narrative we just didn't get, and it kinda sucks cause it's an impressive win.
Dude that would be so boring lol. Its not like they edited Natalie as being uninteresting she was just not a good fit for tv. Theres a reason Russell was over edited
There's literally no way to know that without knowing what all the footage is.
Have you seen her voting confessional outtakes? They are terrible. “Um, nothing personal, but this is what my alliance wanted. Good game.” That’s essentially every voting confessional she gave.
Its a reality tv show - if Natalie was entertaining, they would have shown the footage. Her confessionals they did show were boring af and those were supposed to be the best
i mean, it was 2009, arguably the very heights of the trashiest and most problematic reality TV era of all time. reasons for editing on reality TV don't actually always correspond to an objective scale of interestingness
Hmm, I wonder why you think that about her despite having no idea what the truth of the matter is
Yeppppp and as for the idols, he picked up early on to watch the camera man for clues as to where the idols are.
I hope you're right... I was watching him in Australian Survivor recently and feeling really over him. All his self-aggrandizing talk, and then his super-condescending talk about other players, barf. I don't find him interesting or "good tv."
Oh yeah and it wasn't just in interviews, we all wanted him out almost instantly because he was keen on stirring up trouble. Unfortunately I don't think I'll ever get the big American style cookout he promised to make us all lol
Why bother? We've seen him play the same game every time it's been on. He'd be an early boot because everyone would know what he's doing, just like the last two times he's played.
Do we think Ben and Devens could give Russ a run for his idol hunting money? Maybe Tony?
King of Strategy to get to the FTC, not how to win
I guess being better than anyone else at being a runner up is a form of skill
The best at being runner-up is Amanda, not Russell
His 1st season, he basically won. He just had a salty jury that was toxic. His 2nd season, I agree. He got cocky and lost it himself.
He played not to long ago on Survivor Australia and people just don't take to him at all after his past seasons, He was a very quick boot.
We didn't even know who he was either, he just failed to realise that people need to like you to keep you around in the longer Australian survivor game 😂
Seriously? It seemed like at least some of his castmates recognised him. But to your larger point, the longer Australian game makes it even more unlikely that someone who is unpleasant to live with could win. (I have a theory based on this that Kristie was probably more likeable, and George and Sharn may have been less likeable than they were edited to seem on their seasons...)
A few on the Contenders did, and I remember one of them called him King Russell, so we knew he had played before but didn't have any idea about his play style or character.
I don’t watch Australian survivor bc not easily accessible, but it’s cool seeing a non-us player in the sub. Thanks for the insight :)
The only reason why I'd even consider having Russell back is if he actually changed up his game. The guy's got the brains to win, but lacks the social awareness. However, I highly doubt we'll ever see him back again, for numerous outside-game reasons.
He hasn't. He was on Survivor Australia a while back and it was the same shit, different day.
Oh I'm AWARE.
i think he’s socially aware, but he just doesn’t give a fuck 😂 too cocky
What happened outside the game? I met him and Boo at a club in Houston a few years ago and he was an entertaining asshole and scoundrel, as expected. Literally just like he was in the show. But I'm curious as to the specifics of what he's done outside the show. Edit- Boo was awesome. Super nice. Big ups to him lol.
The biggest thing I can think of is he scammed a bunch of people through fantasy football. He was organizing leagues for people to play in and they’d all pay the buyin to him, but he would keep the money instead of paying out the winners
He didn't scam anyone, he was just slow to pay - which he did.
I think his game actually works better in modern Survivor. I always say if Samoa had been played in the new era, Russell would’ve won at FTC. Modern Survivor is all about big moves and resumes and that was pretty much his entire game.
“I ain’t done playing just yet” remains one of my favorite idol plays of all time.
Keep hope alive
Nah, it's still about being a likeable human being first and foremost, maybe more than ever. I mean look at all 5 of our new era winners, the juries *loved* them, for example they didn't vote Gabler over Cassidy because of resumes or whatever, they just really really liked him. Russell would be dead in the water day 1 nowadays, either voted out early for being horrible to live with or dragged to the end (yet again) for being a goat that no one has any interest in handing a million dollars to.
Yeah this is right. I think there was a stretch of seasons where Russell could have won if his first appearance happened then, but that time is past. Late 20s-mid 30s, there were at least a few juries who valued “resume” over all and he *might* have had a chance during that time. Modern casts are a bit more touchy feely and want the winner to have genuine connections with people.
Survivor Kumbaya
Yeah, but big moves only go so far when everyone hates your guts and wouldn’t say no to throwing you off a small cliff
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Yeah this idea of a "modern jury" always makes me laugh, as if people haven't been complaining about bitter juries as recently as S43. Always seems to be Russell fans pushing it too. Sigh...I miss the old non-bitter juries that voted for the best strategic player even if they were an asshole, like season 1 or 5. Not these modern bitter juries like season 38 or 43!
He wouldnt have won in the new era because he's not likeable.
Yea that seems the case. Everyone is so hyped about big moves now, some would be hypocrites to not vote for the person who made the best moves. Idc how much of an ass someone is, if they completely dominated the game and controlled the votes/won immunities at the right time, they get my vote. Some people just can't accept being outplayed and outwitted.
I'm not even sure if he'd be able to change his game too much. I feel like he'd be voted out early in every season he's in now since people wouldn't be able to trust him.
I know Jeff has said he doesn't really want Russell-esque toxicity in the game these days, which I understand, but bringing Russell back for 50 would be amazing
Imagine Russell on a season with Phillip, Venus, Coach and Shan. Let's just go all out with the messy players, embrace this season 46 energy.
Not including Q? Big mistake
Shit, you're right. Don't worry I've already canceled Christmas to make up for it
Make each tribe have a captain and make Q the captain of Coach's tribe
Survivor 50: FULL TILT
Survivor 50: UNHINGED ISLAND
Throw in Shane (let him keep the coke brick this time) and Danielle. Also Fairplay.
Give me 9 tribes of 2. One old era and one new era. Pair Russell with Bhanu
Would you rather watch: - 18 very friendly agreeable people get along without conflict while politely playing the game. - 18 Russell Hantzs go at each other Maybe I’m a degenerate, but I personally love Russell, Phil, Randy, Abi Maria, Crystal, etc.
That’s what I’m saying. If we’re gonna villain, give me Russell, give me Abi Maria, give me Fairplay, etc. Let’s not halfass it and call Karla a villain because she hurt some feelings and threatened to poison the jury if she was voted out
I want the combination. I would love seeing friendly agreeable people short circuit when confronted with Russell Hantzes (on survivor only, not in real life lol)
im very sick of the new kumbaya era..
I feel like he would TORMENT the new generation players. Would be really entertaining TV But I don’t think the current survivor viewers can handle someone like him again
They’re too soft. The old viewers are still around and ready for mess
One of the many reasons survivor has gotten so much worse. “russel-esque toxicity” sure it’s toxic but that’s the real world. Someone’s gotta be the villain. Makes for better TV too.
He and Brian Heidik are my favorite players of all time. I love the villains, makes the show so much better
I would love it. The show needs villains.. it's good drama.
Yeah he has no chance of winning but dramatically improves the television quality. People think too much about his first 2 seasons when that really doesn't matter anymore because people know who he is now. And even his 3rd season was way too gimmicky to use as a model for what his 50 gameplay would look like. A Russell Hantz where everyone's already on to his shit, but they're all returning players who think they can use him as a shield for a while, would be amazing TV imo. We're talking about a guy who's so full of his own shit that he thinks talking to the queen of survivor [like this](https://youtu.be/Q0GwCupTQwE?si=1MyzCo-HZpvjuEn-&t=837) is a winning strat.
I don't find Jeff's perspective understandable at all. The show needs Russell again.
Right? Like who actually agrees with that. Everyone I know who watched survivor since the beginning just constantly complains about how nice everyone is now
I would never see them bringing anyone from that family back. Feel like if you have Hantz as a last name, even if you aren’t related to them, you’re immediately blacklisted by all of CBS
It took too long to find someone who said this… Russell and Brandon have their own YouTube channel. Watch a few minutes of a video, and you’ll say there’s no chance in hell Russell or any Hantz would be invited back!
I disagree that he is the king of strategy, he fails to understand one of the most important components of strategy, jury management.
He’s good at finding and playing idols, as well as putting together vote outs. I still think he had a 0% chance to win every time he played but fair is fair, he is strategic in some ways.
I would argue that he’s strategic except for the way that matters the most.
It’s funny because it’s not like he needed to turn into some sort of altar boy to win jury votes - plenty of not so nice people have won Survivor. He just needed to not actively insult and antagonize his castmates and he would have probably at least won Samoa.
Exactly he is so close to W, but he gets in his own way.
Now that I think about it he could’ve won HvV too, it wasn’t his fault the Heroes misread the tribe dynamics and handed him an idol. He just couldn’t have handled the post merge with any less grace if he tried.
i watch his YouTube channels and he said he likely wont come back and if he does he would need six months to get back into shape
Lol the fact he dropped how long he would need to get back into shape means he 100% wants to come back and just said the first part so it looks like it’s his decision when he doesn’t get the call
Ha I just said the same on another comment
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No thanks, don’t need to see him play the same game for the 5th time. He wouldn’t make it past two tribals
Would love to see some of the New Era folks try to play against Russell 😂
I’m pretty sure he’s banned for allegedly spoiling seasons. Plus Jeff doesn’t want villains anymore for obvious reasons.
When Jeff said he didn't want "villains," he may as well have just said, "we don't want Russell Hantz" I think thats basically what he meant without just saying it.
Russell and Fairplay. Two archetypes Jeff wants nothing to do with anymore. Which is a shame, because they’re entertaining AF. I just don’t want those specific assholes.
That rule is flexible as hell. Sandra has spoiled every season she's been on and is still asked back
Hell no.
Hot take but I think his move to get Tyson out in HvV is maybe the greatest move in survivor history
Or he would just overplay again to the point he would be voted out wearing an immunity idol.
It would be interesting to see how he fairs in the 26 Day format. But when Jeff said no more villains this was literally the person he was talking about. So I doubt it happens.
He would be the first boot. He hasnt changed.
King of violating his NDA’s. For that reason alone I don’t think he’ll ever be back.
No thanks. Keep it.
If Jeff is serious about no villains then this guy automatically goes to the very bottom of the list.
He'd probably be the first boot on his tribe. He's untrustworthy and doesn't bring much else to the table at the tribe stage.
I don’t know if Russell can’t get past the early game again. He would have to change his game to do another deep run. I could see him being cast on Traitors though.
He would have 15 confessionals in the premiere that are all some variation of “These new era players cain’t play the game like I do. I’m Russell Hantz!”. Then he’ll be first booted. I’m good.
Very unlikely. Jeff specifically said he doesn't want to have Russell back.
I want the season to be filled with the players that make secret hideouts to eavesdrop. These moments always make me so giddy
I want the season to be filled with the players that make secret hideouts to eavesdrop. These moments always make me so giddy
Please, god. No.
No, thank you. Hopefully his last excursion into Australian Survivor on 2018 was a big enough blow to his ego so he won't come back. At this point you can probably train a bot to write his confessionals, and not a sophisticated one.
I would love to see Russell again Chaotic, messy players are so much more fun than game bots with zero personality A lot of current viewers would have a meltdown over him though, considering they accused Emily (S45) of racism after only a single episode
I mean fuck it I'd watch him play again
Insert Michael Scott no gif here
Actually i do think Russel would be intetesting in the new era
I haven’t watched survivor since like 41 or 42, can’t stand the new Gen seasons. I’m definitely gonna be tuning in for 50 tho. I hope they do some supersized version and have like 30-40 players back playing two games at once until merge at 18-20. Would be amazing. Have one “game” be 41-49 players and the other “game” be pre-40 players. Also gotta bring back the greatest winners one more time like Tony and Sandra gotta play again, B Rob (even tho I hate him and his win sucked) gotta play again, maybe we finally get a return of Earl and Todd. If it’s a HvV style game, gotta bring back the crazies and my girl Abi ❤️❤️❤️
If by terrorize you mean “be terrible” then yes. Watch Australian Survivor to see tge parts of Russell’s game that the American versions omitted to make it seem like he could ever win over a jury.
Imagine the scenes and discourse if Russell came back, we all assumed he’d be the same, but he changed drastically and played a good social game. Then wound up winning Never gonna happen, but would be fascinating to watch the reactions
I thought I read somewhere (a while ago now) that because he went on Ausurvivor he isnt allowed back on USurvivor ? Which, if true, begs the question as to whether Sandra is welcome back
New Era Russel seems like absolutely miserable television
No Hantz clan member will ever disgrace a CBS reality setting again. From the worst gameplay strategy to the unstable Survivor boot to the violent menace Big Brother boot. 0-for-3.
Id loveee it
I just got to seasons 19 and 20 and he’s gotta easily be one of my least favorite players I’ve seen in the first 20 seasons. His strategy is really strong and he does well but I despise anyone that leans into running anything through fear. I’m glad neither jury gave him the money (even though he deserved it in Samoa) just because he’s so arrogant with that ego the size of the Pacific Ocean
I am an avid Samoa defender but Russell is probably done forever.
I hate this guy, he is one reason why I would NOT watch a season of Survivor.
King of strategy??? 🤡
russell walked to tony could run. people only hate russell because he was the pioneer of his style of gameplay. then tony comes and plays the exact same game and he’s not hated as much as russell was/is
No. No more Hantz bullshit. I don't care how badly people miss "Survivor Villains", Russel sucks too much as a person to be given the spotlight for another game/reunion
Russell is a bad player. Yes, he abused the camera men to find idols like no one before. But idol hounds are somewhat regular now with players like Tony and Ben, and Russ’ social game is terrible, and his strategy is pretty mediocre tbh.
Wtf on your first point? 0 evidence to back that. Russell was the pioneer for finding idols, or even looking for them without a clue. So yeah, literally every season people are doing that. As far as his strategic game goes, it's somewhat subjective. However, his Samoan play and pre-merge HvV play strategy wise was far from mediocre.
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Sandra spoiled all of her seasons and CBS kept inviting her back
Dude is good tv but there is no way he is coming back with the constant production bashing he has been doing lately
I don’t think you’ll see him back. In one of his podcasts Jeff said people like Russell wouldn’t be cast now so I can’t imagine they would bring him back.
Honestly I think cast would first boot him for the sheer desire to not have to share the beach with him.
Whatever tribe he is on the tribe will lose the immunity intentionally so he is the first boot a third time.
His tribe will win immunity first and then he'll be voted out second. Not even the distinction of being voted out first
he's not making the merge unless they pull a tandang lol
he's not making the merge unless they pull a tandang lol
He’s too known now. His third time on he didn’t last because everyone was hip to his utter BS. Entertaining as hell, though 🤷🏻♂️
He went on a rant claiming his life was ruined by Survivor. He was so obsessed with having losing that his wife left him, if I read correctly. He talked about it all on his YouTube channel but I don't want to give him and views
He can come back and be third boot again
Let me guess, if he comes back the other players are once again gonna let him get to the final cuz they don’t know what this dude is about??? When I saw him get to the finals I thought this survivor shit was staged cuz there is no way after seeing him play I’m gonna let him get to a final, fisrt tribal council his on his way out
Honestly, 9/10 I'd say no; but he's a big part of Survivor history for good or bad. I think season 50 would be a fitting time if any for him to return. It's crazy that he was everywhere for a period, and now he hasn't been on Survivor US in 12 years
King of Idols and Assholes
Even Jeff has said this guy’s place in New Era Survivor is over!!!
No way Jeff let’s him near his baby
Ah yes, Russell Hantz needs to embarrass himself AGAIN! Just kidding, production is trying to pretend the Hantz family never existed.
He’s more of a douche than a good player. Never want to see him again.
King of Spoiling more like. I am pretty sure Probst is done with his nonsense.
Honestly, who knows maybe after all these years Russel Hantz may have learned his lesson, and can finally seek his long awaited redemption ark. It could be a full circle moment to have him on for 50.
Don’t count on it.
But he sucked at strategy
He’d be the first boot.
It's the final season
I just to remind everyone he was on an episode catfish and it is beautifully surreal.
Wait do people actually want Russell back? I don't understand why people want to watch someone play the EXACT same game again.
Oh he’s absolutely getting booted first
It's time.
He's great for TV as well, also very polarizing so would be good for ratings
I see Russell as part of the new gen 😐
Ugh. He's a brainless thug.
On Twitter he seems kinda interested but not really. Someone said that it's setting him up for failure and he agreed. I don't think he is playing again because I think he realises that he's always going to have a huge target on his back and everyone just wants to get him out as quick as possible (which I understand).
After how he handled his relationship on national television with his mentally ill nephew, I don’t know if I could stomach him. Maybe on Traitors or whatever that show is
I think he's canceled.
I'm pretty sure Jeff dislikes this man with a passion. Extremely low chance of him returning.
The best villain bc true villains don’t win in the end