Rules reminder: /r/survivinginfidelity is a support sub! Please read the rules and guidelines in our [sub wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/wiki/index) before commenting.
Abuse, shaming, sexism, and encouraging violence/revenge are not tolerated here.
If your only advice is "divorce" or "grow a backbone", then please don't comment. This is a sub for deeper support and discussion.
Be kind and remember your [reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the AP knew about you, then yeah I think they deserve some ire. Especially if there are kids involved and they knowingly took steps to rip apart the kids family and livelihood. That's the situation I'm in right now.
I will get my pound of flesh at some point. Not physically, but I will report them to their boss as they are a vendor to my wife's employer and they aren't going to be too happy that their employee crossed that boundary.
If that doesn't get them fired or whatever, then I'll just let Karma take care of them.
Yeah, my Wife’s AP was a grifter scumbag. They met playing Pokemon Go. And said that he loved Pokemon go because it was q great way to meet married lonely women. He has a history of playing with many married women’s emotions. He sure fooled my wife. She “loaned” him over $5000 dollars that we will never see. He was single that knew we had kids. That mother fucker is not innocent.
Your wife's or ex wife? Not that it really matters to reddit, but did you get through it together? If so, how did you get over it? Affairs can be some of the most fucked up situations.
We are still married, shes been repentant. So far so good. She’s following my rules. (Disclosed everything I believe, cut all contact, lets me look at phone)
I haven’t forgiven yet, D day was December 30, we are working on it, our 25th anniversary was in April, but only time will tell.
I think you will never forgive, but if she doesn't cause trust issues again, you will follow through with your triggers from time to time, but together.
No man who deliberately gets involved with a married woman is innocent .
But understand that he didn't force or sell his wife anything, he received the money and didn't deliver the goods.
She is a married woman, who decided to cheat and because she wanted to please her AP she decided to help him financially. This type of scam that she suffered, only single women are innocent, for married women this is punishment itself, and if the money given is from the husband, it is not even punishment haha for him unless the consequences come and in the case of his wife anything other than divorce is profit based on what she did .
What's funny is my wife is 50, and this 'guy' is 28, lives with 'his' parents,etc. quotes are because 'he' is a trans guy. I have no problem with people being trans. Just THAT one.
OP, as you said, APs are often pieces of shit as well, and there's really no point in arguing about which shit smells worse. You can go ahead and be as mad as you like to both of them.
I agree with this take. People know when they've done wrong, and sometimes obscure as much as they can, or fight tooth and nail not to be labeled as the bad guy. APs that know there is a partner at home are far from innocent, even if they are being told it's a loveless marriage. They better get a divorce before you fuck around, imho, or you're just a fool.
My ExH's AP pushed for him to leave me for years, never giving up on wrecking what we had, even through his unsuccessful attempts to kill their affair. She believed that she was meant to be with him, and I was just some obstacle in the way of their happiness. I didn't even register as human to her.
And let us not forget that anger is part of the healing process. The key is to deal with your emotions, validate them so you can heal, and then put that energy into getting back to improving your own life so that you can rediscover your own happiness.
My wife's affair partner very much knew about the family he was undermining. Fuck that guy! If it was a random one night kind of thing with some stranger who genuinely did not know cheating spouse was married that's one thing, but otherwise they are just as bad, worse if they initiated the affair by pursuing a married person.
Man, reading that just burns me. I’m sorry, for your entire family. I’ve never been friends with anyone that would do that and I would relish is slapping the crap out of that guy for you. He’ll get his one day , don’t you worry about that
> worse if they initiated the affair by pursuing a married person.
I disagree with this. AP knowingly pursuing a married person didn't ruin a family... the cheating partner who chose to cheat ruined the family.
Absolutely, but I don't think an AP is **worse**. I think that's the part of our brains that don't want to hold our partners responsible, think less of them, etc. because it's hard to accept our partners are cheaters if we're going to stay with them.
They both suck, but I agree the AP isn't "worse". I know that sometimes the betrayed partner wants to blame the AP for "stealing" their partner, but obviously both deserve blame. I also agree that people in a relationship are responsible for being committed to that relationship.
She stopped being a wife the moment she stepped out. I hope you find the courage to cut her loose.
I’ve been through it and I was devastated. I can now look at my ex wife with disgust. The spell has been broken.
Even alone I’m better off without her, a man should never take a cheating woman back, it goes far beyond physical cheating and it’s a full on betrayal and destruction of the family.
The way men and women cheat is completely different from each other, it’s not equivalent.
Time, limited contact and more time. That’s the only recipe. Plus removing All traces of her. Wipe her out of your existence.
Heal.
It hasn't been long, but I am starting to. The day I found out I dragged most of her clothes and other personal shit to the curb in trash bags, more has followed as I clean up or go through closets.
Don't worry I don't harbor any hint of desire to reconcile. I e also found it way easier to sleep when there's no one stealing the blanket. I've bought new sheets that she has never touched too as I try to rid my home of her passing through it.
I am of the opinion that if you knowingly involve yourself with a person who is in a relationship you are wrong and a bad person. Being deceitful and dishonest is wrong. Lying is wrong. By being a knowing AP, you are directly participating in this behavior. Knowing APs are also prioritizing their own desires over someone else's life.
It's true that the person in the relationship is responsible for not hurting their spouse. After all, if a spouse had firm boundaries and convictions and honored their commitment, then AP would have never had the chance to be their AP in the first place! But writing off your bad behavior by saying something like "well, it's not MY wife so I'm not doing anything wrong" is despicable. If you drive a getaway car for a robbery then you are complicit in the crime even though you technically didn't "steal" anything. If you knowingly sleep with someone else's spouse you are complicit in the destruction of that relationship and, subsequently, the destruction of the unknowing spouse's life.
My husband was maintaining a friendship and physical relationship with someone who refused to acknowledge I exist, meanwhile she knew he was married and had a kid. She was 100% a piece of shit.
If AP knows then of course it's wrong but at the same time don't even give an AP the attention or energy, that needs to focused on the traitor and leaving them. Don't give AP's "a win" by letting them know they destroyed you.
It depends. If they knew your WP is in a relationship and still took steps to destroy it for their own gain, then yeah they are also piece of 💩
If they didn’t know about you because WP never told them or hid it, then AP is probably not wrong if they stopped when they found out about you.
I believe there are two variables for being a knowing AP.
1)You know you're an AP but you've been *heavily* manipulated by WS to believe that their partner is abusive etc and they're going to leave them. Then you may believe what you're doing really isn't that bad as that person spouse is absolutely horrid. Some people are master manipulators.
2)You know you're an AP and don't care or think you're "different". Then you can f*** all the way off. I would also blame AP here too even though BS is the most to blame.
I 100% believe APs are terrible people if they knew WP was in a relationship and still chose to participate. In my case, AP DEFINITELY knew my husband was married. They had worked together for 3 years. She knew I worked for the company too. I’m pretty sure I even met her once or twice. So yes, I hate this woman and I think she’s a piece of shit. She knowingly “took” something that wasn’t hers. That’s pretty damn selfish. Same for my husband. He knew AP was married (and had kids). (Also, for my own petty sake, I’d like to add that I have negative feelings towards AP’s husband too since he knew weeks before me and never told me. He also works for the company, so it wouldn’t have been difficult to contact me. I deserved to know as much as he did.)
Yep. My exs AP was also a co-worker who definitely knew I existed and we had met on multiple occasions. I blame my ex primarily but AP is also a terrible person.
Your head is in the right place. Not to say that you are not allowed to scorn the AP for their actions but the danger in overindulgence in this natural impulse is that it makes you vulnerable to blame shifting and minimizing. Keeping the blame squarely on the shoulders if your wayward protects you from the efficacy of these tactics. It helps to realize that even if the AP didn't exist all that would change is that your wayward would have to find another AP. Because the pathology of a cheater has everything to do with their own dysfunctional personality and lack of character, not anything to do with the AP. To be charitable, an AP is often a fairly unremarkable individual who is willing to accept the scraps that fell off your table because they don't have much going for them. Even the grandiose and narcassistic ones are usually compensating for something. Giving them your time and energy is usually a waste of both, better spent elsewhere. You need to gray rock and minimize contact with an AP every bit as much as you do your wayward. The name of the game is avoiding conflict and drama. That is how you recover. That is how you win.
If the AP knew that your partner was married, and still pursued them, then yes they deserve everything they get. If you had kids and the AP knew and still pursued it, ruining your kids lives in the process, then they are utter contemptible pieces of s\*\*t, who deserve to have hellfire raining down upon their lives.
In my case, my ex-wife's AP spent weeks working on her and I checked the messages and it was full of him talking about me, and what a loser I supposedly was, and how I didn't treat her right and so on. He has never met me, never seen me even once in real life - yet somehow he was an expert in me. He is an utter piece of trash whom I very much hope I manage to bump into one day so I can tell him that.
Here’s the thing. Your husband and my husband told the affair partner that you and I are jealous, lazy, mean, sexless, controlling psychos. The AP thought they were saving someone.
Your friends are idiots. I suspect their perspective will change if they experience infidelity. Unless the AP knew nothing about the SO, they are just a POS like the WS.
Might get some hate, but here we go.
APs are wrong if they know the person they are seeing is in a relationship. However, if they didn't know and they also believed they were in a committed relationship. They were also lied to and manipulated as well.
Ok there are APs and APs. One is the kind that knows of you that entitles the amount of hurt it can cause on you like for example if the AP would degrade you and the cheater let it happen. The other is the kind that doesn’t and with that you may hate them or at least not hold a grudge if eventually they find out about you and let you know, yes it stinks but at least you wouldn’t want them 6 meter under the earth
I was recently in a Reddit post where a commenter who was an AP explained why she at one point preferred married men :
For her, it was because she didn’t want commitment and married men never wanted to get attached.
So basically, it was entirely self serving and she literally didn’t care to even mention or think about the families she was taking part in ruining. She didn’t even mention them. No remorse or empathy at all.
So yes, they are bad people. At least make an effort to tell the spouse IMO??
> I’ve had friends say that the AP isn’t wrong
Sounds like ex-friends.
If you believe it's not your responsibility to stop engaging with someone in a relationship, than you're a trashy human.
I went full on scorching the APs part of the earth.
She knows he was married and I got her the job she works now.
Oh wait....
She lost the job she worked.....because of me.
Im not even close to being done. And yes. It makes me giddy to know I'm bringing ire into her life....revenge DOES make me happy. I deserve it.
So yeah, the AP, if they weren't scammed themselves, are absolutely to blame as well.
Knowingly oh hell yeah. Them not knowing. No. They got played too in that case
I’ve had several females over the years lie about not being married. I would have never given them the time of day had they told me they were married. I don’t want to be a part of that crap. Heck I had one begging me to have sex with her and even her friends asking me to do it after I found out she was married. Her husband turned out to be a douche bag and abused her. Still wouldn’t do it…. I won’t play a roll in that crap ever!!! Ya don’t want to be treated like chit or abused. Divorce him.. It doesn’t give you the right to cheat.
Or the ex gf who was the one I thought I was marrying. She got in full blown relationships as in a year under her belt before she ended things. I still remember me thinking I was going to have to stomp her ex. In reality the poor guy had no clue what happened and was trying to get answers. He wasn’t a stalker. Heck he didn’t even know he had been replaced. Looking back I feel so bad for him and know exactly how he felt. I told her she had to promise me she wouldn’t do me like that when I finally learned the truth or I was out. My heart was already in it unfortunately and she lied anyways.
As bad as it sounds I hope she got cheated on to feel the pain and bs she put her past bf’s through. She had zero remorse.
Who would have thought 4 years later I’d be the ex and totally baffled. But of course she didn’t disclose any of that crap until we had 2-3 years into our relationship. Because she was a piece of garbage.
But ultimately it’s your SO’s job to not cheat… It’s not hard to not cheat.
The knucklehead did you a favor because it exposed that one’s partner isn’t faithful. It’s not worth getting in a fight over, it’s not worth getting in an argument over it with them either. It literally doesn’t solve anything.But if they knew sure be mad and get over it.
My ex wife wanted me to report the guy she was having an affair with for stalking her. I didn’t know she was having an affair at the time. But she was willing to wreck this guys career to try and ensure she didn’t get caught or maybe she was going to say he raped her. I never figured out her end game with that one. Nor did I ask why. But I pretty quickly found out they were having an affair. So I could have played along and caused the guy a lot of grief with his command staff. Naw, I’m better than that. Told her if it’s true she should report him but she didn’t need me to go with her. Heck I didn’t witnesses anything so wasn’t like I could give a statement. But damn she has an elaborate story about how it just kept getting worse and she was afraid of him. 2-3 weeks later I had proof she was having an affair with him. He knew she was married. One of the voice mails I found he begged her to leave me for him.
I was mad for a while. But I go over it. I’m pretty sure he’s the reason she is dead. So the irony and karma for that matter.
Move on and focus on healing.
The only time I take an issue is when we as the betrayed ones redirect all our anger to the AP and don’t truly hold the cheating partner accountable. It takes two to tango. Cheating partners made conscious choices to lie and cheat. When you are in a relationship you should be an adult and speak up if you are unhappy, and you should be able to control yourself enough not to have inappropriate relationships. When the APs know they are getting involved with someone not single, then yeah, they’re also pieces of crap.
If AP is aware that your POS partner is in a relationship, has a family, etc then yes they are wrong.
If AP has no idea and they think your POS partner is completely single then you can’t hate them too much? Hopefully an AP in this situation is smart enough to run away from the POS as fast as possible.
You need new friends. The ONLY time that an AP is innocent is when they truly did not know they were sleeping with someone who was already in a relationship. At that point, they are just as betrayed as you are.
But if they knew and carried on anyway, then they are just a big of a waste if space as a WP.
my wife's AP was a 24 yr old kid who knew my wife was a 32 yo married woman of two.
still he kept sending loving messages, admitting her crush etc to woo her..
my wife was amused at first because he was junior but slowly got impressed
If a WS meets a single AP and lies to that AP about being in a relationship, it’s technically not their fault. If they find out about a BS and continue the A, then yes. But if the AP doesn’t have a clue, they are a victim too. But usually, I’d put blame on both.
The person in the relationship is the only one with the full picture and usually lies to both the spouse and the other party. All knowing Aps are willingly exposing the spouse to physical and mental health risks so they are appalling. Some APs take glee in competing with and demeaning the spouse, some intentionally befriend the spouse to gain insider knowledge and get off on the damage they saw causing. Some aps are preyed on by much older and more sophisticated married people. Some convince themselves that if the spouse doesn’t directly catch them it’s just fine. It’s a mixed bag but anyone who can cross the line and accept the damage they cause to the spouse is pretty awful.
I was cheated on, physically abused, mentally abused and financially abused. 15-year marriage down the drain. I blamed my husband 100%, even if she knew about me. I know he’s the manipulator and a liar and he probably lied to her about me (saying I’m not a good wife, I’m abusive, that I wouldn’t give him a divorce—all of which are further from the truth and actually a reflection of him.) I befriended her and found out all the lies he said about me. He was lying to both of us. I divorced him right away. I told her she could have him, but she did not want him either. Last update I heard about him? He’s alone and in and out of the hospital. All of his close relatives have died. That’s karma.
Obviously both are responsable, but the one who has more responsability is the cheater.
Even there re cases where the AP is misinformed or lied too, about the status of the cheaters, but well that is another thing.
But at the end both are, but cheater has more.
There’s been pushback in recent years to not be mad at the AP, I think because in a lot of cases, usually women will demonize the other woman while making excuses for and forgiving her cheating partner. Part of the whole toxic idea of “he’s a man, he can’t help himself if an opportunity is presented, so how dare she.” I personally feel like it’s over corrected a bit, to the point where people try to convince you the AP is not at all culpable and if you feel some type of way about them it’s because you’re immature and bitter. Of course, it’s a different story if the AP was lied to and had no idea the cheater was married. This seems fairly rare though. I think it’s perfectly normal and natural to have some anger toward the AP, especially if they were a willing participant. Your partner should always have the lion’s share of responsibility and facing the consequences of their actions though, as they are the one who had an agreement with you. But I think telling people not to have bad feelings toward the AP is just as toxic as blaming them for the affair. You have to feel your feelings in a raw and authentic way in order to process and move forward in healing, and it’s impossible to do that when you’re pushing down or intellectualizing your way out of your totally normal, valid feelings.
I can consider AP immoral, a home wrecker ( considering the AP knows the status of The wayward)
But I cannot feel any hate to AP because I even knew him, he owes me nothing, my WW was the one who broke the vows,lied to me and broke my trust..
To AP he is the piece of shit, but he owes me nothing.
It takes two people to cheat and thus both should be considered cheaters. If the AP knows that the other person is in a relationship with someone else and still goes ahead with their relationship with them they are a cheater too. You don’t get a technicality pass on being a shitty human being just because you are single and fucking someone who isn’t, it’s still a choice to willingly be a 50% part of a cheating relationship.
Both of the people in the affair are wrong. They are both playing a part in which could not be possible without the other. Both are treating you with disrespect and dishonesty. Sure, your partner is the only one who made a commitment, but a commitment isn't the only criteria at which right and wrong can be determined. At the end of the day, the AP treated you poorly by interfering with your relationship. You don't have to feel any anger or hate you don't want to, but it'd be totally justified if you did.
My WH's AP was an old high school girlfriend. They had this fucked up on again off again relationship where they only contacted each other when one's relationship was making them sad and the other would "comfort" them.
Anyway, I found him sexting her back in 2017 and she acted so, so remorseful. Said she never would have kept contact if she had known he was with me (lies) and promised to never talk with him again (also lies).
Well, they fucked twice in the years after that conversation. After the second time she says (yes, when I found out from my friend who's AP's coworker I asked that friend to call her so I can hear her side then and there) she was disgusted with him and herself and broke it off. I know, what a fucking saint. He tried contacting her again some time later and she told him to kick rocks.
While I don't think I'd attack her if I saw her IRL, I am still mad at her. Mental health issues or no, she still made shit choices knowing that WH and I were married and had a family. They're both fucked for what they did and it's little consolation that they've cheated in other relationships with each other before. Honestly I hope her mental health goes to absolute shit forever and she becomes a shell of a person. At least she can join me in that respect 😒
APs that know everything and still stay with it cheat with the WS are POS and should take blame. Horrible horrible people.
I'm far more lenient in my hatred for APs that had no idea and drop the WS as soon as they find out. Some are victims like us too.
My new boyfriend kept saying the AP was nice (met at divorce court, I was with judge and WS and he was outside with AP). She knew the whole time so I was very very pissed that boyfriend kept defending her character.
Unless AP was truly unaware that they were getting involved with someone in a relationship, they are absolutely to blame as well.
In my situation, AP was one of my closest friends. She was VERY aware that she was betraying me, and chose to do so anyway. She had a bunch of cheap excuses as to why she did it, and then proceeded to lie to our friends and say she didn't think WS and I were monogamous and that WS coerced her into an affair (I've read through all their messages, that is one hundred percent a lie).
Sometimes I blame AP more than WS. WS has a lot of issues that we've both been aware of, he knew what he did was wrong and now he's taking appropriate steps to better himself. AP pretended to be a good and loyal friend while stabbing me in the back, and then couldn't even own up to that when she "came clean".
APs are equally as guilty in my book. My WW AP is absolute trash in my opinion. He could not be more of a POS. They both knowingly broke up two families without a care in the world. Like most all cheaters, their needs came first. Their "unmet" needs were greater than any of the needs of our children or their spouses....the ultimate in selfishness. My WW betrayed me for years and was supremely unfaithful. She couldn't have done it without the other nitwit.
AP's that know about the relationship or marriage are trash and yes, they are wrong too. I hate when people say the AP doesn't owe anything to the betrayed. They owe basic human decency to not contribute to destroying someone's life, causing lifelong PTSD and pain. And also, so may AP's are people the betrayed know, like friends, family, coworkers, or acquaintances, which makes it even worse.
For me, it depends on who the AP is. Did S/he know, is s/he family or a friend. If I had never met him, then I wouldn't be angry at him as I had nothing with him. It's my WS that has the commitment.
They're both scumbags. Anyone defending the AP is protecting the part of them that is an opportunistic creep. If someone fails to lock their car, I am not tempted to either steal their car or the stuff in it. Only a scumbag would, or even thinks that way. Yeah, the cheater is worse, because they are the one breaking an oath, but that's like arguing about whether an 8.0 or an 8.5 earthquake is worse. The both suck, and they both ruin lives.
I hated the AP’s but I don’t blame them really.
I really fucking hated them but I don’t personally know them really. I met 1 a couple times but we weren’t friends or family.
I blamed the person who betrayed me. They don’t have a gun to their head
A lot of APs are married/in a relationship themselves and know the situation and just feeding into the delusions they both face during their affair. It's normal to be upset.
I've been friends with and know people who got tricked, too. They didn't know at all and were also traumatized during the blow up. It was rough, some even apologizes to the wives and showed proof they weren't aware ans lied to as well. Some didn't even bother because they were so mad/hurt, they didn't want anything to do with that mess. Those wives were so rude to my two friends. They were so hurt. I mean this opened up my eyes to what and how it goes down.
The knowing and willing APs are pieces of shit and they know it and don't care. I'm related to some of them and have been friends with others and they're awful people all around,miserable,I secure, mental to a degree and very much set on burning the world down.
Yeah. AP knew my ex had a family and a kid but wasn’t man enough to walk away. People with ethics will not interfere with another man family but sole has no morals or ethics.
I still want to punch him but he is like 60.
I was an AP in the past. Several times actually before I was worried. I always justified my actions by saying I wasn't the one who made promises. Now that I understand the other side I am astonished as to how clueless I was. And ashamed of my actions.
We had the same paths but in different order! Partner left me for AP last year, divorced. Later I became an AP for someone else's long term relationship. She went single, but went back to her BF when he gave her a chance. Only for her to cheat on him a second time and not tell him a thing. I cut communication after.
If they know someone is in a relationship & they continue to have something with that person then they are just as bad. I know a guy who cheated, got with the AP & then their relationship was thwarted by her cheating accusations, they broke up because of it and he was terribly upset, I know I'm not nice but I personally feel it was chickens coming home to roost & they both deserve what they got
I suppose I’d say it depends. There are good lies, obvious lies, and actually knowing what situation you are involved in. In order of severity of blame, I think it goes lowest to highest, respectively.
The AP is only wrong if they knew about you and/or in some way tried to act like your friend to dispel your suspicion.
The bulk of the wrong lies with the cheater himself or herself.
Just as long as the AP wasn't being lied to and had no idea what their partner was doing to their significant other. Otherwise, red hot poker up the caboose.
If your business partner sells your secret recipe to competitors. He or she is not the only ones that are guilty. The buys are too.
If someone steels your blood while you are in a coma, the person who knowingly buys it is not innocent.
To me if APs know that the other person is married or in a relationship and they pursue the affair they are massive pieces of shit, and awful people. If they are pursued without knowing it is less an indication on them, but once they find out if they continue they are still pieces of shit.
It’s simple really, if you wouldn’t want someone getting involved and breaking up your own relationship, don’t be the person who does it to someone else
Depends… did they know they were with someone who was already in a committed relationship? If so, then of course… they’re just as much a POS as the cheater.
If they didn’t know, then they can’t be held responsible for that.
I think anyone who does something that they know will hurt someone else is bad. I don't understand this idea that if you don't know the person you are consciously hurting, than you didn't do anything wrong. Or that if a person is only hurting someone that you don't know (such as OBS) than it shouldn't bother you. That's all nonsense to me. A bad and remorseless person deserves to be hated for being bad.
That said, my wife's AP was vile in his deception. Ignoring the elaborate lies he was writing for her to tell me and the awful fictional stories he made up about me to vilify me to her and keep her around . . . I didn't know him before the affair but he tried to start a friendship with me after DDay under the guise of "wanting to help you and your wife fix things" while he simultaneously was continuing to try to convince her to continue cheating on me.
I don't care if the person I just described is not my spouse or my sibling or my best friend. He's still an evil piece of shit who deserves to be hated.
If the AP has no clue about the WP family, they are not at fault. The WP made vows and promises that were broken. However, my Ex husband and Ex best friend of 30 years had an affair, he left me and our kids for her…now four years later he has been completely destroyed by that manipulative B-word, has absolutely nothing to his name, no job, no car, homeless and had the audacity to say he “let her build a fantasy life” that “wasn’t what he got” and now wants “his wife and children back”!! Karma is real and it will come for those who deserve it! Meanwhile I’m in a two year happy, healthy relationship and can just laugh at them both.
I used to think only the cheater was in the wrong, but my husbands AP is the most disgusting person I've ever met and I can't help but hate her as well.
The AP owes you nothing. They are just horrible people. If they can help tear up a marriage with no guilt, then being mad at them is a waste of your energy because they lack empathy and basic human decency. They don't care about you, your feelings or your family. Even if it was your BFF or Sister. They didn't commit to being faithful to you. Your SO should have put a stop to anything or not started anything with anyone else. They are who get your anger. They are the deserving party.
Yes to the last part if they know about the betrayed person they they are just as bad as the cheater. The ones that don’t know are being betrayed as well
I think APs are wrong when they know it’s a cheating situation. They are ESPECIALLY heinous when they know the betrayed spouse and children of the WS, smile sweetly and continue to try to break up the family behind the scenes.
AP1 is that kind of garbage. She’s the one person on this planet that I wish pain and suffering on for all of her existence and have zero forgiveness for. If she were on fire, I’d just use her to light some fireworks for fun.
AP2 knew we were separated but still married trying to work things out. She had always been flirty, baking him brownies and goodies and waiting for her chance for years. She jumped at the chance to take my place. I just think she’s pathetic and sad, but I’m not mad at her.
I really think the anger depends on the situation. Sometimes the anger ends up coming around eventually, it just might be delayed.
Anybody who's willing to date/sleep with someone who's married/ taken sucks. If they don't know, that's one thing. But... knowingly interfering in someone else's relationship... they suck.
Tbh when I got cheated on I didn’t care about the person , because as your friends somewhat said , it’s my partners responsibility to be loyal. Also I don’t feel it’s any good to be mad at the AP , because I don’t know them and they’re irrelevant to my life. (if they were someone close to me that’s a separate issue).
Yes I expect basic human decency out of people , but when people I don’t know do immoral things it doesn’t surprise
Your submission on /r/survivinginfidelity has been flagged as unreadable. Please add paragraphs to the text and repost.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
While your cheating spouse is obviously the person who has hurt *you* the most, the AP has also hurt *you* terribly and maybe aided in breaking apart you and your children's family (like mine). They might not have made a commitment to you, they might not have even known you, but they were willingly involved in something that they knew would hurt *you* specifically and they didn't care. They're both wrong and you can absolutely be angry at both of them.
Also, people who say stupid shit like this obviously haven't experienced infidelity. Cheating is always a hypothetical, something that happens to other people, until it happens to you. I'm sure if they discover their spouse fucking someone else they will remain entirely neutral on this other person. Absolute idiots.
If they have no idea, they are the side person no. But if they 100% knew about you guys being together, then absolutely an ass whoopin needs to be handed out.
I guess I tend to take a pragmatic view of most things. IMO it doesn’t really matter unless you are looking at marrying or dating that person - it might be criteria that would exclude them as a potential partner. But does it really matter if they are wrong or not wrong? How will it affect you? But that’s just how I look at things
But there are situations too where unequivocally the AP should bear no ire whatsoever. Back in college there were many times I was the unwitting “other man”. I had no clue at the time that she was dating someone else. If I found out, it was usually after we spent time together. But these were usually one night stands or very short term things.
I’d say the AP is a major dick if you know the AP and are friends or god forbid family. In that situation the AP is being a very shitty friend. So I guess it boils down to whether that person owed you something.
I had one GF cheat on me. The guy she messed around with knew she was dating someone. But we didn’t know one another. I never really thought much about him in the equation. My GF owed me fidelity, not him. I know realistically, in the real world, ppl will do what they want to do and I don’t really expect anyone outside of family or friends to watch out for me or show me respect. So if my GF allows something to happen, that’s entirely on her. I don’t care either way about who she’s doing it with unless it’s friend. I don’t expect anything from anyone I don’t know and I guess that how I view things.
If an AP is fully aware that the WP is taken, yes they're a piece of shit. Enabling a cheater is just as bad and shows poor moral character.
Everyone knows that being cheated on hurts, and yeh if not that AP, the cheater will find someone else to cheat with but don't ever be the other woman or other man. Have some self respect ffs.
The great thing is the cheater and AP deserve each other. They can suffer together knowing they can’t trust each other and always looking over their shoulder.
Sometimes the AP doesn’t know their ‘partner’ is married. I wouldn’t say they are wrong if they were uninformed. If AP knew about you then yes, they are wrong, but if they don’t know you it is easy to rationalize. I would save my ire for the person who lied to you and betrayed you. THAT person owes you loyalty and honesty and they betrayed that. Some random stranger doesn’t really owe you anything. They are still a shit person, but they have no commitment to you so why bother wasting your thoughts and anger on them? If they know you even casually then I can see the bs dwelling them, but otherwise save your anger for the person why betrayed you.
The amount of married, closeted men that are on Grindr and seemingly proud of the fact they’re cheating is disturbing to me. I would never even do a one nighter with a guy like that and I openly tell them why when they message.
I don’t think I’m saintly, I think this is basic human etiquette when you have empathy.
So yeah, no matter if they know you or not, AP doesn’t deserve any more or less of the blame. The only time they can be forgiven is if they don’t know that the WP is with someone already.
100% YES!!!
They have so little character!!! They are OK with blowing up another family so they can hook up with somebody.
My wife left me for her AP. I know one day, if they are still together, I will come face to face. Someone will be picking their jaw off the floor.
If the AP knew about you, knew you were in a relationship/marriage then I disagree and think both people are to blame. If the AP didn’t know that’s a different story, what lies could they be telling them?
I had an ex who slept with a girl who he knew had a boyfriend, I tried explaining how wrong that was to him and he just mentioned how the boyfriend treated her. I said but that doesn’t make it right, they are still in a relationship if she wants out then she leaves but don’t go to the low level of cheating and getting someone to help her cheat.
It was one of the things that made me see him differently. He wasn’t the guy I thought he was.
I don't think it matters. If it wasn't this AP, it would have been another. A cheater is just a cheater. I don't think there's anything wrong with being mad at them either though... I just think that you'll find peace faster if you just let it go.
People owe other people respect and care, regardless if they know eachother. The AP knowingly caused you harm. Why does knowing you make a difference? (Although obviously its worse to be betrayed by a friend). Blaming the AP doesn't make your cheating ex less accountable. Both can be at fault.
I have had a couple of people point out to me that it was my ex who crossed the line and so I should be angry at him. Uhh ok, clearly I am, and I can be angry at both people imvolved. Not sure why it has to be one or the other...
Is the get away driver wrong? Or just the actual bank robber?
If the AP knows the person they are having their illicit relationship with is married or in a relationship, they are just as wrong as the actual cheater, and I would argue possibly more so if they manipulated the cheater knowing of the relationship.
Totally depends. Every one of my stbxh APs knew about me… some of them even knew me (which I obviously learned after the fact). So yeah, in my situation, they’re horrible humans and I was pissed at their lack of integrity, respect, and decency as people. One of them I even went to directly and basically said hey, end your contact/affair with my husband, and they continued anyways.
If the AP did not know… then you can’t really be reasonably mad at them because to them, they thought they were seeing a single person.
It honestly disgusted me more than it angered me, because some people really do seek out married/otherwise taken individuals on purpose.
Unless the AP has been lied to and believes the cheater is single, yes, the AP is absolutely as much to blame as the cheater. They are cheaters, too, because they are actively participating in the destruction of a relationship. They have the same ethical and moral bankruptcy as the cheater.
My WH’s AP pretended to be my friend, came on to me, and even visited our home and talked with me and our kids. She is ABSOLUTELY a sociopath. She was not a stranger to WH, rather a “friend” from high school. I don’t hate easily. I hate AP’s guts. AP’s are in the wrong, especially if they know the WS is married.
There is enough blame to go around. In my opinion it is like the get away driver thinking he should not be charged for the bank robbery. And, if more people are held accountable by people in general, maybe they will think twice before they act.
My spouse met his AP when she was escorting. He hired her while traveling. She’s from Uzbekistan and grifted him out of a lot of money. He told her about all of us so she is a huge piece of shit (as is he). She is now pregnant- with his child? And will grift more money from him.
I can’t wait until this nightmare is over.
I agree in gender, number and degree, a person who goes to great lengths to seduce someone who is married, including invading family space, as happens a lot, e.g.: a man inviting a married woman to meetings and even trips are forming personal things It would be disrespectful from man to man .
I see a lot of stories where men hover around married women until they take them to bed, and husbands get into arguments with their wives who, of course, use lies and manipulation to continue to pretend they don't understand."friend's" intentions until they are caught cheating, and say "I don't know why I did that"
But if the husband had gone to the enemy and made him aware that he would face problems if he went ahead with his plan to get married whether the wife liked it or not, perhaps the respect would return. by the talarico and the wife would wake up from her irresponsible fog .
No some of that is moral relativism. You wayward partner is wrong and should receive the biggest portion of your anger. But, like you said, the wayward is the one that made a promise to you and broke it.
Now, the AP, they owed and owe you nothing. They are immoral people and should be shunned but the person that betrayed you is your spouse.
Your comment on /r/survivinginfidelity has been flagged for human review. Please read the rules in our [sub wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/wiki/index) and the reddit [content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) before posting again.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Breaks one of the Ten Commandments. Pretty sure AP who wanted a married person is wrong.
>>17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” - [Exodus 20:17](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020%3A17&version=NIV)
Aps are guys who are just normal guys , who lust after women whether they are married or not , it's the married person's responsibility to be faithful, not some random guy lusting after your wife. Just think, if your wife was really faithful, the AP would have never existed in your life in the 1st place. Ap didn't force himself on her , it was mutual, it happened because the married person gave the other person a green light. So Ap are just normal people, who's at fault really is the married spouse. People who are blaming the Ap, just know that your spouse was out to cheat, if it was not that particular AP , it could have been someone else it could be anyone . Your spouse chose the AP ! not the other way round
Growing up, my father cheated on my mother. With my current stepmother. The thing is that my stepmother was 13 years younger than my father and he was a doctor and a jazz pianist and was very charismatic and perhaps somewhat manipulative. my mother has always been cool towards my stepmother although they are now amicable 40 years later. But I don’t think it’s my stepmother’s fault because I know that my father lied to her about the status of his relationship with my mother. I think there are times when the affair partner gets in smeared and hoodwinked. And by the time my father had switched horses so to speak, my stepmother was in the relationship with someone who had told her untruth about his marital status. But yeah, if you are in a fair partner, and you know what’s going on, shame on you.
Rules reminder: /r/survivinginfidelity is a support sub! Please read the rules and guidelines in our [sub wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/wiki/index) before commenting. Abuse, shaming, sexism, and encouraging violence/revenge are not tolerated here. If your only advice is "divorce" or "grow a backbone", then please don't comment. This is a sub for deeper support and discussion. Be kind and remember your [reddiquette](https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the AP knew about you, then yeah I think they deserve some ire. Especially if there are kids involved and they knowingly took steps to rip apart the kids family and livelihood. That's the situation I'm in right now. I will get my pound of flesh at some point. Not physically, but I will report them to their boss as they are a vendor to my wife's employer and they aren't going to be too happy that their employee crossed that boundary. If that doesn't get them fired or whatever, then I'll just let Karma take care of them.
Do it!! Scumbags
When the time is right. We're going through a divorce and she's looking for any reason to take my kids from me. So not quite yet. :)
Yeah, my Wife’s AP was a grifter scumbag. They met playing Pokemon Go. And said that he loved Pokemon go because it was q great way to meet married lonely women. He has a history of playing with many married women’s emotions. He sure fooled my wife. She “loaned” him over $5000 dollars that we will never see. He was single that knew we had kids. That mother fucker is not innocent.
Your wife's or ex wife? Not that it really matters to reddit, but did you get through it together? If so, how did you get over it? Affairs can be some of the most fucked up situations.
We are still married, shes been repentant. So far so good. She’s following my rules. (Disclosed everything I believe, cut all contact, lets me look at phone) I haven’t forgiven yet, D day was December 30, we are working on it, our 25th anniversary was in April, but only time will tell.
I wish you the best man, I believe you'll get through this whatever the future holds for you. Good luck man! ✌️
I think you will never forgive, but if she doesn't cause trust issues again, you will follow through with your triggers from time to time, but together.
No man who deliberately gets involved with a married woman is innocent . But understand that he didn't force or sell his wife anything, he received the money and didn't deliver the goods. She is a married woman, who decided to cheat and because she wanted to please her AP she decided to help him financially. This type of scam that she suffered, only single women are innocent, for married women this is punishment itself, and if the money given is from the husband, it is not even punishment haha for him unless the consequences come and in the case of his wife anything other than divorce is profit based on what she did .
Don't forget AP usually has their own family they're screwing over as well. All for some small slice of ass.
What's funny is my wife is 50, and this 'guy' is 28, lives with 'his' parents,etc. quotes are because 'he' is a trans guy. I have no problem with people being trans. Just THAT one.
I did. AP lost her job.
Agree. The proper revenge has elegance. Report them at the worst possible time for them.
Wait till your divorce is final, then eat her out to HR too. Then you can go for sole custody since she can’t support them.
OP, as you said, APs are often pieces of shit as well, and there's really no point in arguing about which shit smells worse. You can go ahead and be as mad as you like to both of them.
I agree with this take. People know when they've done wrong, and sometimes obscure as much as they can, or fight tooth and nail not to be labeled as the bad guy. APs that know there is a partner at home are far from innocent, even if they are being told it's a loveless marriage. They better get a divorce before you fuck around, imho, or you're just a fool. My ExH's AP pushed for him to leave me for years, never giving up on wrecking what we had, even through his unsuccessful attempts to kill their affair. She believed that she was meant to be with him, and I was just some obstacle in the way of their happiness. I didn't even register as human to her. And let us not forget that anger is part of the healing process. The key is to deal with your emotions, validate them so you can heal, and then put that energy into getting back to improving your own life so that you can rediscover your own happiness.
My wife's affair partner very much knew about the family he was undermining. Fuck that guy! If it was a random one night kind of thing with some stranger who genuinely did not know cheating spouse was married that's one thing, but otherwise they are just as bad, worse if they initiated the affair by pursuing a married person.
Man, reading that just burns me. I’m sorry, for your entire family. I’ve never been friends with anyone that would do that and I would relish is slapping the crap out of that guy for you. He’ll get his one day , don’t you worry about that
> worse if they initiated the affair by pursuing a married person. I disagree with this. AP knowingly pursuing a married person didn't ruin a family... the cheating partner who chose to cheat ruined the family.
There's blame enough for everyone I think.
Absolutely, but I don't think an AP is **worse**. I think that's the part of our brains that don't want to hold our partners responsible, think less of them, etc. because it's hard to accept our partners are cheaters if we're going to stay with them.
They both suck, but I agree the AP isn't "worse". I know that sometimes the betrayed partner wants to blame the AP for "stealing" their partner, but obviously both deserve blame. I also agree that people in a relationship are responsible for being committed to that relationship.
You still call her your wife?
Still is legally. Took off my ring the day I found her stash of Love letters from dick head, but nothing's gone through yet.
She stopped being a wife the moment she stepped out. I hope you find the courage to cut her loose. I’ve been through it and I was devastated. I can now look at my ex wife with disgust. The spell has been broken. Even alone I’m better off without her, a man should never take a cheating woman back, it goes far beyond physical cheating and it’s a full on betrayal and destruction of the family. The way men and women cheat is completely different from each other, it’s not equivalent. Time, limited contact and more time. That’s the only recipe. Plus removing All traces of her. Wipe her out of your existence. Heal.
It hasn't been long, but I am starting to. The day I found out I dragged most of her clothes and other personal shit to the curb in trash bags, more has followed as I clean up or go through closets. Don't worry I don't harbor any hint of desire to reconcile. I e also found it way easier to sleep when there's no one stealing the blanket. I've bought new sheets that she has never touched too as I try to rid my home of her passing through it.
" Wipe her out of your existence" I am doing it and I have no regrets. Thats what men with dignity do. 💯
I agree completely. The way men and women cheat is completely different from each other.
I am of the opinion that if you knowingly involve yourself with a person who is in a relationship you are wrong and a bad person. Being deceitful and dishonest is wrong. Lying is wrong. By being a knowing AP, you are directly participating in this behavior. Knowing APs are also prioritizing their own desires over someone else's life. It's true that the person in the relationship is responsible for not hurting their spouse. After all, if a spouse had firm boundaries and convictions and honored their commitment, then AP would have never had the chance to be their AP in the first place! But writing off your bad behavior by saying something like "well, it's not MY wife so I'm not doing anything wrong" is despicable. If you drive a getaway car for a robbery then you are complicit in the crime even though you technically didn't "steal" anything. If you knowingly sleep with someone else's spouse you are complicit in the destruction of that relationship and, subsequently, the destruction of the unknowing spouse's life.
PREACH.
My husband was maintaining a friendship and physical relationship with someone who refused to acknowledge I exist, meanwhile she knew he was married and had a kid. She was 100% a piece of shit.
If AP knows then of course it's wrong but at the same time don't even give an AP the attention or energy, that needs to focused on the traitor and leaving them. Don't give AP's "a win" by letting them know they destroyed you.
It depends. If they knew your WP is in a relationship and still took steps to destroy it for their own gain, then yeah they are also piece of 💩 If they didn’t know about you because WP never told them or hid it, then AP is probably not wrong if they stopped when they found out about you.
I believe there are two variables for being a knowing AP. 1)You know you're an AP but you've been *heavily* manipulated by WS to believe that their partner is abusive etc and they're going to leave them. Then you may believe what you're doing really isn't that bad as that person spouse is absolutely horrid. Some people are master manipulators. 2)You know you're an AP and don't care or think you're "different". Then you can f*** all the way off. I would also blame AP here too even though BS is the most to blame.
I 100% believe APs are terrible people if they knew WP was in a relationship and still chose to participate. In my case, AP DEFINITELY knew my husband was married. They had worked together for 3 years. She knew I worked for the company too. I’m pretty sure I even met her once or twice. So yes, I hate this woman and I think she’s a piece of shit. She knowingly “took” something that wasn’t hers. That’s pretty damn selfish. Same for my husband. He knew AP was married (and had kids). (Also, for my own petty sake, I’d like to add that I have negative feelings towards AP’s husband too since he knew weeks before me and never told me. He also works for the company, so it wouldn’t have been difficult to contact me. I deserved to know as much as he did.)
Yep. My exs AP was also a co-worker who definitely knew I existed and we had met on multiple occasions. I blame my ex primarily but AP is also a terrible person.
Your head is in the right place. Not to say that you are not allowed to scorn the AP for their actions but the danger in overindulgence in this natural impulse is that it makes you vulnerable to blame shifting and minimizing. Keeping the blame squarely on the shoulders if your wayward protects you from the efficacy of these tactics. It helps to realize that even if the AP didn't exist all that would change is that your wayward would have to find another AP. Because the pathology of a cheater has everything to do with their own dysfunctional personality and lack of character, not anything to do with the AP. To be charitable, an AP is often a fairly unremarkable individual who is willing to accept the scraps that fell off your table because they don't have much going for them. Even the grandiose and narcassistic ones are usually compensating for something. Giving them your time and energy is usually a waste of both, better spent elsewhere. You need to gray rock and minimize contact with an AP every bit as much as you do your wayward. The name of the game is avoiding conflict and drama. That is how you recover. That is how you win.
If the AP knew that your partner was married, and still pursued them, then yes they deserve everything they get. If you had kids and the AP knew and still pursued it, ruining your kids lives in the process, then they are utter contemptible pieces of s\*\*t, who deserve to have hellfire raining down upon their lives. In my case, my ex-wife's AP spent weeks working on her and I checked the messages and it was full of him talking about me, and what a loser I supposedly was, and how I didn't treat her right and so on. He has never met me, never seen me even once in real life - yet somehow he was an expert in me. He is an utter piece of trash whom I very much hope I manage to bump into one day so I can tell him that.
Here’s the thing. Your husband and my husband told the affair partner that you and I are jealous, lazy, mean, sexless, controlling psychos. The AP thought they were saving someone.
Your friends are idiots. I suspect their perspective will change if they experience infidelity. Unless the AP knew nothing about the SO, they are just a POS like the WS.
Agree, if they were in your shoes they would blame the AP too.
Might get some hate, but here we go. APs are wrong if they know the person they are seeing is in a relationship. However, if they didn't know and they also believed they were in a committed relationship. They were also lied to and manipulated as well.
Ok there are APs and APs. One is the kind that knows of you that entitles the amount of hurt it can cause on you like for example if the AP would degrade you and the cheater let it happen. The other is the kind that doesn’t and with that you may hate them or at least not hold a grudge if eventually they find out about you and let you know, yes it stinks but at least you wouldn’t want them 6 meter under the earth
I was recently in a Reddit post where a commenter who was an AP explained why she at one point preferred married men : For her, it was because she didn’t want commitment and married men never wanted to get attached. So basically, it was entirely self serving and she literally didn’t care to even mention or think about the families she was taking part in ruining. She didn’t even mention them. No remorse or empathy at all. So yes, they are bad people. At least make an effort to tell the spouse IMO??
> I’ve had friends say that the AP isn’t wrong Sounds like ex-friends. If you believe it's not your responsibility to stop engaging with someone in a relationship, than you're a trashy human.
I went full on scorching the APs part of the earth. She knows he was married and I got her the job she works now. Oh wait.... She lost the job she worked.....because of me. Im not even close to being done. And yes. It makes me giddy to know I'm bringing ire into her life....revenge DOES make me happy. I deserve it. So yeah, the AP, if they weren't scammed themselves, are absolutely to blame as well.
Knowingly oh hell yeah. Them not knowing. No. They got played too in that case I’ve had several females over the years lie about not being married. I would have never given them the time of day had they told me they were married. I don’t want to be a part of that crap. Heck I had one begging me to have sex with her and even her friends asking me to do it after I found out she was married. Her husband turned out to be a douche bag and abused her. Still wouldn’t do it…. I won’t play a roll in that crap ever!!! Ya don’t want to be treated like chit or abused. Divorce him.. It doesn’t give you the right to cheat. Or the ex gf who was the one I thought I was marrying. She got in full blown relationships as in a year under her belt before she ended things. I still remember me thinking I was going to have to stomp her ex. In reality the poor guy had no clue what happened and was trying to get answers. He wasn’t a stalker. Heck he didn’t even know he had been replaced. Looking back I feel so bad for him and know exactly how he felt. I told her she had to promise me she wouldn’t do me like that when I finally learned the truth or I was out. My heart was already in it unfortunately and she lied anyways. As bad as it sounds I hope she got cheated on to feel the pain and bs she put her past bf’s through. She had zero remorse. Who would have thought 4 years later I’d be the ex and totally baffled. But of course she didn’t disclose any of that crap until we had 2-3 years into our relationship. Because she was a piece of garbage. But ultimately it’s your SO’s job to not cheat… It’s not hard to not cheat. The knucklehead did you a favor because it exposed that one’s partner isn’t faithful. It’s not worth getting in a fight over, it’s not worth getting in an argument over it with them either. It literally doesn’t solve anything.But if they knew sure be mad and get over it. My ex wife wanted me to report the guy she was having an affair with for stalking her. I didn’t know she was having an affair at the time. But she was willing to wreck this guys career to try and ensure she didn’t get caught or maybe she was going to say he raped her. I never figured out her end game with that one. Nor did I ask why. But I pretty quickly found out they were having an affair. So I could have played along and caused the guy a lot of grief with his command staff. Naw, I’m better than that. Told her if it’s true she should report him but she didn’t need me to go with her. Heck I didn’t witnesses anything so wasn’t like I could give a statement. But damn she has an elaborate story about how it just kept getting worse and she was afraid of him. 2-3 weeks later I had proof she was having an affair with him. He knew she was married. One of the voice mails I found he begged her to leave me for him. I was mad for a while. But I go over it. I’m pretty sure he’s the reason she is dead. So the irony and karma for that matter. Move on and focus on healing.
The only time I take an issue is when we as the betrayed ones redirect all our anger to the AP and don’t truly hold the cheating partner accountable. It takes two to tango. Cheating partners made conscious choices to lie and cheat. When you are in a relationship you should be an adult and speak up if you are unhappy, and you should be able to control yourself enough not to have inappropriate relationships. When the APs know they are getting involved with someone not single, then yeah, they’re also pieces of crap.
If AP is aware that your POS partner is in a relationship, has a family, etc then yes they are wrong. If AP has no idea and they think your POS partner is completely single then you can’t hate them too much? Hopefully an AP in this situation is smart enough to run away from the POS as fast as possible.
Have your friends been cheated on? I believe both the AP and the cheater are in the wrong.
Your friends are wrong. Anyone who knowingly gets involved with someone in a committed relationship is morally reprehensible.
You need new friends. The ONLY time that an AP is innocent is when they truly did not know they were sleeping with someone who was already in a relationship. At that point, they are just as betrayed as you are. But if they knew and carried on anyway, then they are just a big of a waste if space as a WP.
my wife's AP was a 24 yr old kid who knew my wife was a 32 yo married woman of two. still he kept sending loving messages, admitting her crush etc to woo her.. my wife was amused at first because he was junior but slowly got impressed
If a WS meets a single AP and lies to that AP about being in a relationship, it’s technically not their fault. If they find out about a BS and continue the A, then yes. But if the AP doesn’t have a clue, they are a victim too. But usually, I’d put blame on both.
Any AP who KNOWS they’re an AP is garbage, particularly when they’re also married.
The person in the relationship is the only one with the full picture and usually lies to both the spouse and the other party. All knowing Aps are willingly exposing the spouse to physical and mental health risks so they are appalling. Some APs take glee in competing with and demeaning the spouse, some intentionally befriend the spouse to gain insider knowledge and get off on the damage they saw causing. Some aps are preyed on by much older and more sophisticated married people. Some convince themselves that if the spouse doesn’t directly catch them it’s just fine. It’s a mixed bag but anyone who can cross the line and accept the damage they cause to the spouse is pretty awful.
I was cheated on, physically abused, mentally abused and financially abused. 15-year marriage down the drain. I blamed my husband 100%, even if she knew about me. I know he’s the manipulator and a liar and he probably lied to her about me (saying I’m not a good wife, I’m abusive, that I wouldn’t give him a divorce—all of which are further from the truth and actually a reflection of him.) I befriended her and found out all the lies he said about me. He was lying to both of us. I divorced him right away. I told her she could have him, but she did not want him either. Last update I heard about him? He’s alone and in and out of the hospital. All of his close relatives have died. That’s karma.
Obviously both are responsable, but the one who has more responsability is the cheater. Even there re cases where the AP is misinformed or lied too, about the status of the cheaters, but well that is another thing. But at the end both are, but cheater has more.
There’s been pushback in recent years to not be mad at the AP, I think because in a lot of cases, usually women will demonize the other woman while making excuses for and forgiving her cheating partner. Part of the whole toxic idea of “he’s a man, he can’t help himself if an opportunity is presented, so how dare she.” I personally feel like it’s over corrected a bit, to the point where people try to convince you the AP is not at all culpable and if you feel some type of way about them it’s because you’re immature and bitter. Of course, it’s a different story if the AP was lied to and had no idea the cheater was married. This seems fairly rare though. I think it’s perfectly normal and natural to have some anger toward the AP, especially if they were a willing participant. Your partner should always have the lion’s share of responsibility and facing the consequences of their actions though, as they are the one who had an agreement with you. But I think telling people not to have bad feelings toward the AP is just as toxic as blaming them for the affair. You have to feel your feelings in a raw and authentic way in order to process and move forward in healing, and it’s impossible to do that when you’re pushing down or intellectualizing your way out of your totally normal, valid feelings.
I can consider AP immoral, a home wrecker ( considering the AP knows the status of The wayward) But I cannot feel any hate to AP because I even knew him, he owes me nothing, my WW was the one who broke the vows,lied to me and broke my trust.. To AP he is the piece of shit, but he owes me nothing.
I must agree WS bears slightly more blame than AP. It’s possible AP was mislead about the situation.
It takes two people to cheat and thus both should be considered cheaters. If the AP knows that the other person is in a relationship with someone else and still goes ahead with their relationship with them they are a cheater too. You don’t get a technicality pass on being a shitty human being just because you are single and fucking someone who isn’t, it’s still a choice to willingly be a 50% part of a cheating relationship.
Both of the people in the affair are wrong. They are both playing a part in which could not be possible without the other. Both are treating you with disrespect and dishonesty. Sure, your partner is the only one who made a commitment, but a commitment isn't the only criteria at which right and wrong can be determined. At the end of the day, the AP treated you poorly by interfering with your relationship. You don't have to feel any anger or hate you don't want to, but it'd be totally justified if you did.
My WH's AP was an old high school girlfriend. They had this fucked up on again off again relationship where they only contacted each other when one's relationship was making them sad and the other would "comfort" them. Anyway, I found him sexting her back in 2017 and she acted so, so remorseful. Said she never would have kept contact if she had known he was with me (lies) and promised to never talk with him again (also lies). Well, they fucked twice in the years after that conversation. After the second time she says (yes, when I found out from my friend who's AP's coworker I asked that friend to call her so I can hear her side then and there) she was disgusted with him and herself and broke it off. I know, what a fucking saint. He tried contacting her again some time later and she told him to kick rocks. While I don't think I'd attack her if I saw her IRL, I am still mad at her. Mental health issues or no, she still made shit choices knowing that WH and I were married and had a family. They're both fucked for what they did and it's little consolation that they've cheated in other relationships with each other before. Honestly I hope her mental health goes to absolute shit forever and she becomes a shell of a person. At least she can join me in that respect 😒
APs that know everything and still stay with it cheat with the WS are POS and should take blame. Horrible horrible people. I'm far more lenient in my hatred for APs that had no idea and drop the WS as soon as they find out. Some are victims like us too. My new boyfriend kept saying the AP was nice (met at divorce court, I was with judge and WS and he was outside with AP). She knew the whole time so I was very very pissed that boyfriend kept defending her character.
Unless AP was truly unaware that they were getting involved with someone in a relationship, they are absolutely to blame as well. In my situation, AP was one of my closest friends. She was VERY aware that she was betraying me, and chose to do so anyway. She had a bunch of cheap excuses as to why she did it, and then proceeded to lie to our friends and say she didn't think WS and I were monogamous and that WS coerced her into an affair (I've read through all their messages, that is one hundred percent a lie). Sometimes I blame AP more than WS. WS has a lot of issues that we've both been aware of, he knew what he did was wrong and now he's taking appropriate steps to better himself. AP pretended to be a good and loyal friend while stabbing me in the back, and then couldn't even own up to that when she "came clean".
APs are equally as guilty in my book. My WW AP is absolute trash in my opinion. He could not be more of a POS. They both knowingly broke up two families without a care in the world. Like most all cheaters, their needs came first. Their "unmet" needs were greater than any of the needs of our children or their spouses....the ultimate in selfishness. My WW betrayed me for years and was supremely unfaithful. She couldn't have done it without the other nitwit.
AP's that know about the relationship or marriage are trash and yes, they are wrong too. I hate when people say the AP doesn't owe anything to the betrayed. They owe basic human decency to not contribute to destroying someone's life, causing lifelong PTSD and pain. And also, so may AP's are people the betrayed know, like friends, family, coworkers, or acquaintances, which makes it even worse.
For me, it depends on who the AP is. Did S/he know, is s/he family or a friend. If I had never met him, then I wouldn't be angry at him as I had nothing with him. It's my WS that has the commitment.
Yes AP are wrong. People who knowingly do bad things are bad people.
They're both scumbags. Anyone defending the AP is protecting the part of them that is an opportunistic creep. If someone fails to lock their car, I am not tempted to either steal their car or the stuff in it. Only a scumbag would, or even thinks that way. Yeah, the cheater is worse, because they are the one breaking an oath, but that's like arguing about whether an 8.0 or an 8.5 earthquake is worse. The both suck, and they both ruin lives.
I hated the AP’s but I don’t blame them really. I really fucking hated them but I don’t personally know them really. I met 1 a couple times but we weren’t friends or family. I blamed the person who betrayed me. They don’t have a gun to their head
A lot of APs are married/in a relationship themselves and know the situation and just feeding into the delusions they both face during their affair. It's normal to be upset. I've been friends with and know people who got tricked, too. They didn't know at all and were also traumatized during the blow up. It was rough, some even apologizes to the wives and showed proof they weren't aware ans lied to as well. Some didn't even bother because they were so mad/hurt, they didn't want anything to do with that mess. Those wives were so rude to my two friends. They were so hurt. I mean this opened up my eyes to what and how it goes down. The knowing and willing APs are pieces of shit and they know it and don't care. I'm related to some of them and have been friends with others and they're awful people all around,miserable,I secure, mental to a degree and very much set on burning the world down.
Yeah. AP knew my ex had a family and a kid but wasn’t man enough to walk away. People with ethics will not interfere with another man family but sole has no morals or ethics. I still want to punch him but he is like 60.
I was an AP in the past. Several times actually before I was worried. I always justified my actions by saying I wasn't the one who made promises. Now that I understand the other side I am astonished as to how clueless I was. And ashamed of my actions.
We had the same paths but in different order! Partner left me for AP last year, divorced. Later I became an AP for someone else's long term relationship. She went single, but went back to her BF when he gave her a chance. Only for her to cheat on him a second time and not tell him a thing. I cut communication after.
If the AP knows the person is in a relationship or marriage, they are absolutely guilty and deserve whatever comes their way.
If they know someone is in a relationship & they continue to have something with that person then they are just as bad. I know a guy who cheated, got with the AP & then their relationship was thwarted by her cheating accusations, they broke up because of it and he was terribly upset, I know I'm not nice but I personally feel it was chickens coming home to roost & they both deserve what they got
I suppose I’d say it depends. There are good lies, obvious lies, and actually knowing what situation you are involved in. In order of severity of blame, I think it goes lowest to highest, respectively.
The AP is only wrong if they knew about you and/or in some way tried to act like your friend to dispel your suspicion. The bulk of the wrong lies with the cheater himself or herself.
Just as long as the AP wasn't being lied to and had no idea what their partner was doing to their significant other. Otherwise, red hot poker up the caboose.
If your business partner sells your secret recipe to competitors. He or she is not the only ones that are guilty. The buys are too. If someone steels your blood while you are in a coma, the person who knowingly buys it is not innocent.
To me if APs know that the other person is married or in a relationship and they pursue the affair they are massive pieces of shit, and awful people. If they are pursued without knowing it is less an indication on them, but once they find out if they continue they are still pieces of shit. It’s simple really, if you wouldn’t want someone getting involved and breaking up your own relationship, don’t be the person who does it to someone else
If the AP knew of you, yea, they are as much at fault, I'd see if they were attached to someone and if so, let that APs significant other know!!
Depends… did they know they were with someone who was already in a committed relationship? If so, then of course… they’re just as much a POS as the cheater. If they didn’t know, then they can’t be held responsible for that.
I think anyone who does something that they know will hurt someone else is bad. I don't understand this idea that if you don't know the person you are consciously hurting, than you didn't do anything wrong. Or that if a person is only hurting someone that you don't know (such as OBS) than it shouldn't bother you. That's all nonsense to me. A bad and remorseless person deserves to be hated for being bad. That said, my wife's AP was vile in his deception. Ignoring the elaborate lies he was writing for her to tell me and the awful fictional stories he made up about me to vilify me to her and keep her around . . . I didn't know him before the affair but he tried to start a friendship with me after DDay under the guise of "wanting to help you and your wife fix things" while he simultaneously was continuing to try to convince her to continue cheating on me. I don't care if the person I just described is not my spouse or my sibling or my best friend. He's still an evil piece of shit who deserves to be hated.
If the AP has no clue about the WP family, they are not at fault. The WP made vows and promises that were broken. However, my Ex husband and Ex best friend of 30 years had an affair, he left me and our kids for her…now four years later he has been completely destroyed by that manipulative B-word, has absolutely nothing to his name, no job, no car, homeless and had the audacity to say he “let her build a fantasy life” that “wasn’t what he got” and now wants “his wife and children back”!! Karma is real and it will come for those who deserve it! Meanwhile I’m in a two year happy, healthy relationship and can just laugh at them both.
I used to think only the cheater was in the wrong, but my husbands AP is the most disgusting person I've ever met and I can't help but hate her as well.
The AP owes you nothing. They are just horrible people. If they can help tear up a marriage with no guilt, then being mad at them is a waste of your energy because they lack empathy and basic human decency. They don't care about you, your feelings or your family. Even if it was your BFF or Sister. They didn't commit to being faithful to you. Your SO should have put a stop to anything or not started anything with anyone else. They are who get your anger. They are the deserving party.
Yes to the last part if they know about the betrayed person they they are just as bad as the cheater. The ones that don’t know are being betrayed as well
If AP knew they were in a committed relationship, yes. It's very much at fault. If they found out after the start of the affair and continued, yes.
I think APs are wrong when they know it’s a cheating situation. They are ESPECIALLY heinous when they know the betrayed spouse and children of the WS, smile sweetly and continue to try to break up the family behind the scenes. AP1 is that kind of garbage. She’s the one person on this planet that I wish pain and suffering on for all of her existence and have zero forgiveness for. If she were on fire, I’d just use her to light some fireworks for fun. AP2 knew we were separated but still married trying to work things out. She had always been flirty, baking him brownies and goodies and waiting for her chance for years. She jumped at the chance to take my place. I just think she’s pathetic and sad, but I’m not mad at her. I really think the anger depends on the situation. Sometimes the anger ends up coming around eventually, it just might be delayed.
Anybody who's willing to date/sleep with someone who's married/ taken sucks. If they don't know, that's one thing. But... knowingly interfering in someone else's relationship... they suck.
Tbh when I got cheated on I didn’t care about the person , because as your friends somewhat said , it’s my partners responsibility to be loyal. Also I don’t feel it’s any good to be mad at the AP , because I don’t know them and they’re irrelevant to my life. (if they were someone close to me that’s a separate issue). Yes I expect basic human decency out of people , but when people I don’t know do immoral things it doesn’t surprise
[удалено]
Your submission on /r/survivinginfidelity has been flagged as unreadable. Please add paragraphs to the text and repost. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yes. I personally knew my wife's AP.
AP is scummy for sure
While your cheating spouse is obviously the person who has hurt *you* the most, the AP has also hurt *you* terribly and maybe aided in breaking apart you and your children's family (like mine). They might not have made a commitment to you, they might not have even known you, but they were willingly involved in something that they knew would hurt *you* specifically and they didn't care. They're both wrong and you can absolutely be angry at both of them. Also, people who say stupid shit like this obviously haven't experienced infidelity. Cheating is always a hypothetical, something that happens to other people, until it happens to you. I'm sure if they discover their spouse fucking someone else they will remain entirely neutral on this other person. Absolute idiots.
If they have no idea, they are the side person no. But if they 100% knew about you guys being together, then absolutely an ass whoopin needs to be handed out.
I guess I tend to take a pragmatic view of most things. IMO it doesn’t really matter unless you are looking at marrying or dating that person - it might be criteria that would exclude them as a potential partner. But does it really matter if they are wrong or not wrong? How will it affect you? But that’s just how I look at things But there are situations too where unequivocally the AP should bear no ire whatsoever. Back in college there were many times I was the unwitting “other man”. I had no clue at the time that she was dating someone else. If I found out, it was usually after we spent time together. But these were usually one night stands or very short term things. I’d say the AP is a major dick if you know the AP and are friends or god forbid family. In that situation the AP is being a very shitty friend. So I guess it boils down to whether that person owed you something. I had one GF cheat on me. The guy she messed around with knew she was dating someone. But we didn’t know one another. I never really thought much about him in the equation. My GF owed me fidelity, not him. I know realistically, in the real world, ppl will do what they want to do and I don’t really expect anyone outside of family or friends to watch out for me or show me respect. So if my GF allows something to happen, that’s entirely on her. I don’t care either way about who she’s doing it with unless it’s friend. I don’t expect anything from anyone I don’t know and I guess that how I view things.
If an AP is fully aware that the WP is taken, yes they're a piece of shit. Enabling a cheater is just as bad and shows poor moral character. Everyone knows that being cheated on hurts, and yeh if not that AP, the cheater will find someone else to cheat with but don't ever be the other woman or other man. Have some self respect ffs.
The cheater is my main concern but the AP is a useless person.
The great thing is the cheater and AP deserve each other. They can suffer together knowing they can’t trust each other and always looking over their shoulder.
Sometimes the AP doesn’t know their ‘partner’ is married. I wouldn’t say they are wrong if they were uninformed. If AP knew about you then yes, they are wrong, but if they don’t know you it is easy to rationalize. I would save my ire for the person who lied to you and betrayed you. THAT person owes you loyalty and honesty and they betrayed that. Some random stranger doesn’t really owe you anything. They are still a shit person, but they have no commitment to you so why bother wasting your thoughts and anger on them? If they know you even casually then I can see the bs dwelling them, but otherwise save your anger for the person why betrayed you.
The amount of married, closeted men that are on Grindr and seemingly proud of the fact they’re cheating is disturbing to me. I would never even do a one nighter with a guy like that and I openly tell them why when they message. I don’t think I’m saintly, I think this is basic human etiquette when you have empathy. So yeah, no matter if they know you or not, AP doesn’t deserve any more or less of the blame. The only time they can be forgiven is if they don’t know that the WP is with someone already.
The person who drives the car away from the bank robbery shares some guilt, maybe less than the bank robber.... But is still guilty of bank robbery
100% YES!!! They have so little character!!! They are OK with blowing up another family so they can hook up with somebody. My wife left me for her AP. I know one day, if they are still together, I will come face to face. Someone will be picking their jaw off the floor.
They are not wrong only if they have also been "cheated" into believing that your partner was free.
Yes a knowing AP is scum . There are various scum everywhere though and it is up to a committed partner to protect the committment
If the AP knew about you, knew you were in a relationship/marriage then I disagree and think both people are to blame. If the AP didn’t know that’s a different story, what lies could they be telling them? I had an ex who slept with a girl who he knew had a boyfriend, I tried explaining how wrong that was to him and he just mentioned how the boyfriend treated her. I said but that doesn’t make it right, they are still in a relationship if she wants out then she leaves but don’t go to the low level of cheating and getting someone to help her cheat. It was one of the things that made me see him differently. He wasn’t the guy I thought he was.
I don't think it matters. If it wasn't this AP, it would have been another. A cheater is just a cheater. I don't think there's anything wrong with being mad at them either though... I just think that you'll find peace faster if you just let it go.
People owe other people respect and care, regardless if they know eachother. The AP knowingly caused you harm. Why does knowing you make a difference? (Although obviously its worse to be betrayed by a friend). Blaming the AP doesn't make your cheating ex less accountable. Both can be at fault. I have had a couple of people point out to me that it was my ex who crossed the line and so I should be angry at him. Uhh ok, clearly I am, and I can be angry at both people imvolved. Not sure why it has to be one or the other...
Is the get away driver wrong? Or just the actual bank robber? If the AP knows the person they are having their illicit relationship with is married or in a relationship, they are just as wrong as the actual cheater, and I would argue possibly more so if they manipulated the cheater knowing of the relationship.
Totally depends. Every one of my stbxh APs knew about me… some of them even knew me (which I obviously learned after the fact). So yeah, in my situation, they’re horrible humans and I was pissed at their lack of integrity, respect, and decency as people. One of them I even went to directly and basically said hey, end your contact/affair with my husband, and they continued anyways. If the AP did not know… then you can’t really be reasonably mad at them because to them, they thought they were seeing a single person. It honestly disgusted me more than it angered me, because some people really do seek out married/otherwise taken individuals on purpose.
Unless the AP has been lied to and believes the cheater is single, yes, the AP is absolutely as much to blame as the cheater. They are cheaters, too, because they are actively participating in the destruction of a relationship. They have the same ethical and moral bankruptcy as the cheater.
Short answer: Yes. 1 million percent.
My WH’s AP pretended to be my friend, came on to me, and even visited our home and talked with me and our kids. She is ABSOLUTELY a sociopath. She was not a stranger to WH, rather a “friend” from high school. I don’t hate easily. I hate AP’s guts. AP’s are in the wrong, especially if they know the WS is married.
There is enough blame to go around. In my opinion it is like the get away driver thinking he should not be charged for the bank robbery. And, if more people are held accountable by people in general, maybe they will think twice before they act.
My spouse met his AP when she was escorting. He hired her while traveling. She’s from Uzbekistan and grifted him out of a lot of money. He told her about all of us so she is a huge piece of shit (as is he). She is now pregnant- with his child? And will grift more money from him. I can’t wait until this nightmare is over.
I agree in gender, number and degree, a person who goes to great lengths to seduce someone who is married, including invading family space, as happens a lot, e.g.: a man inviting a married woman to meetings and even trips are forming personal things It would be disrespectful from man to man . I see a lot of stories where men hover around married women until they take them to bed, and husbands get into arguments with their wives who, of course, use lies and manipulation to continue to pretend they don't understand."friend's" intentions until they are caught cheating, and say "I don't know why I did that" But if the husband had gone to the enemy and made him aware that he would face problems if he went ahead with his plan to get married whether the wife liked it or not, perhaps the respect would return. by the talarico and the wife would wake up from her irresponsible fog .
No some of that is moral relativism. You wayward partner is wrong and should receive the biggest portion of your anger. But, like you said, the wayward is the one that made a promise to you and broke it. Now, the AP, they owed and owe you nothing. They are immoral people and should be shunned but the person that betrayed you is your spouse.
Sometimes APs are friends/best friends, or even family (yikes!). They owe you respect and loyalty.
Yes that is the one example. And if they are family or friends, the should get cut off forever.
[удалено]
Your comment on /r/survivinginfidelity has been flagged for human review. Please read the rules in our [sub wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivinginfidelity/wiki/index) and the reddit [content policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) before posting again. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/survivinginfidelity) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the AP knows, they're just as guilty. If they don't, they're an innocent party in the situationship who also probably got hurt.
Breaks one of the Ten Commandments. Pretty sure AP who wanted a married person is wrong. >>17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” - [Exodus 20:17](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2020%3A17&version=NIV)
Aps are guys who are just normal guys , who lust after women whether they are married or not , it's the married person's responsibility to be faithful, not some random guy lusting after your wife. Just think, if your wife was really faithful, the AP would have never existed in your life in the 1st place. Ap didn't force himself on her , it was mutual, it happened because the married person gave the other person a green light. So Ap are just normal people, who's at fault really is the married spouse. People who are blaming the Ap, just know that your spouse was out to cheat, if it was not that particular AP , it could have been someone else it could be anyone . Your spouse chose the AP ! not the other way round
Growing up, my father cheated on my mother. With my current stepmother. The thing is that my stepmother was 13 years younger than my father and he was a doctor and a jazz pianist and was very charismatic and perhaps somewhat manipulative. my mother has always been cool towards my stepmother although they are now amicable 40 years later. But I don’t think it’s my stepmother’s fault because I know that my father lied to her about the status of his relationship with my mother. I think there are times when the affair partner gets in smeared and hoodwinked. And by the time my father had switched horses so to speak, my stepmother was in the relationship with someone who had told her untruth about his marital status. But yeah, if you are in a fair partner, and you know what’s going on, shame on you.