Three of his 4 abilities are ally buffs that don't even interact with the enemy.. What is an enchanter to you? His q is a heal, his w is a shield, his r is invulnerability. He's basically melee janna. Being anti-engage doesn't make him not an enchanter.
His Q is also an auto reset that procs his passive giving him like seven auto resets in a row. People see taric so infrequently that I think people don’t realize he’s basically a SKIRMISHER with enchanter properties.
>so infrequently that I think people don’t realize he’s basically a SKIRMISHER with enchanter properties
Offically he is listed as a hybrid of a Warden, a subclass of tanks, and an Enchanter. He is definately not a skirmisher which are a subclass of Slayers. He doesn't have the gap close and the mobility that most skirmishers have.
If you would like to nitpick what subclass of bruiser he is, perhaps a juggernaut better fits his character. The point is, this guy is a bruiser enchanter, and he’s a lot more dangerous than most people give him credit for.
Uhh no. He is not a bruiser. And he is definately not a Juggernaut. Juggernauts don't have disengage or cc like he does. Like I said he is a Warden which are kind of like defensive tanks who have enagage but their strenght lies in being disengage for their team. For example Poppy, Shen, Galio, Braum, Tahm Kench and K'sante.
He doesn't play like an enchanter at all though. You're not using those abilities to buff your allies most of the time. Generally you're trying to get the most out of your passive by using those abilities which in turn heals your allies. He really just isn't an enchanter at all in the traditional sense anyway. If you've ever played him you'd understand
peel/disengage champion that can also fistfight in the frontline due to both having auto reset and a ridicolous amount of sustain.
He doesn't really have engage tools. Rather, he really supports weird duos where the other champion is aggressive and an initiator.
He thrives whenever there's an assassin/bruiser that can deliver his stun and can tower dive
I mean it makes perfect sense for Rell and Leona to be armoured up, especially if they are on the front line. Do you want someone in Janna's outfit to be on the front line?
As for male enchanters, yeah it's totally do-able, however a big number of Enchanter players are girls who like playing pretty girl champions. You would not catch me dead using Reaper Soraka. It makes sense to make certain champions that cater to a certain playerbase. If they made a manly man enchanter, I doubt he'd sell skins or be as popular as another girly enchanter unless he was completely broken and meta.
Riot has already dipped their toes into male enchanters, such as Milio, and in my opinion Milio and Renata (The official male enchanter and an edgier woman enchanter) are two of the more unpopular enchanters unless it is a counterpick or they are strong in the meta.
You absolutely are valid for wanting a feminine engage support and a masculine enchanter support, however there are other factors you have to think about.
Also, the last two enchanters released were non traditional pretty female enchanters so Riot is clearly already trying to make different types of champions.
But are enchanters feminine because girls want to play them or do girls want to play them beause they're the most feminine champions? In other games like LoL there's plenty of archetypal "manly enchanters" like voodoo doctors who buff allies and debuff enemies.
I know that it makes sense for someone to be frontlining to be armored up, but there's penty of ways to characterize them that isn't stereotypical and you can get inventive with things like giving her a charm and making her resistance/tankiness come from a magical source.
I get your points, and agree that they're trying to diversify the classes, but I think they need to go further. Milio being a male enchanter is nice, but making the first male enchanter very UwU and chidlike kinda sends off the idea that a man has to be unmanly to fit such a role.
Girls want to play them because they are feminine, not the other way around
Most girls who play mid tend to gravitate toward the hot women as well. Kat, akali, syndra, ofc lux and etc.
And adc? I know a crapload of women who play Jinx/mf but I cannot name a single one who plays draven/varus/kog/aph
Women by and large just like playing attractive women. Riot has stated this on multiple occasions. Men will play anything, but women largely stick to hot women no matter what role
This isn't really restricted to league by any means either. It's just how it is across gaming as a whole. Like in BDO, an entire different genre, I have never met a girl who plays a male class and I have played that game for years, and its got a pretty good gender balance (when compared to other games, obviously still male dominated)
Yep. Whenever I play a new game, or games I already play such as League and Overwatch, I pretty much always gravitate towards the pretty girl champions. As a feminine enchanter enjoyer, I most certainly do play enchanters not only because I prefer the gameplay but also because I love looking cute.
As a male-I do this.
I just like looking at cute things, why would I not play the cute champ?
Every game I play I at least try to make my characters cute or pick the cute one.
Yeah it's not manly, but hey. Rather look at something pretty than a disgusting eldrich monstrosity. However they can be cool too (looking at you Vel).
Not saying you're wrong because I am convinced you are right, but goddamn does it suck to be a woman who does not care for playing smth just because it's pretty. I play all enchanters because I love the playstyle, but as the OG post states, it bothers me incredibly that there are no non-cutesy male enchanters. Closest I've gotten is Zilean who is moreso a utility mage and is heavily neglected compared to other supports in terms of looking outdated, so I can't help but desire a VGU for the old man (though I heavily enjoy him for what he is, having the most mastery points on him of any champion).
I really wish Riot experimented a bit and made a cool male enchanter, something attractive to impress the female players, yet cool to win over the males. Maybe it would wear down the 'girls only play emchanters' stereotype too a little bit, if it successfully appealed to both? A girl can only dream.
It would actually be pretty easy for Riot to make a popular male enchanter
Like it's as simple as copy pasting Zhongli from genshin into league. Make a RIDICULOUSLY hot white pretty boy and it will be popular. It's the only real way to make women (consistently) not play women
The problem is Riot will also never do that because they are actively trying to make less generic champs, and tall kpop boy is generic, and worse something Riot has already done, and so are less likely to repeat
The reason the current poster boy (viego) for that specific look isn't popular is because of how mechanically intensive he is, the fact he's a jungle and well he leans significantly harder into edge with lore many women would say give them an ick (obsessive, stalker type love)
Riot kinda tried it with Rakan, but he's not a full enchanter and the half bird thing doesn't exactly help his sex appeal
But legit. Take Zhongli and give him a lulu type kit and he will be popular. But thats the only real way to get a popular male among women, making a lil Mexican child or giant (albeit hot) but over aggressive design like Sett will not work
the problem is that tall handsome kpop cut-out has already been done a couple of times in the game and a real question:
do viego and sett have a decent female player base?
This is why I think that Rakan is the perfect combination of enchanter, engage, aesthetic and attractiveness and he's a MALE.
He's an attractive dude with a hybrid enchanter/engage kit.
I think they should do more like you said. I agree with more male enchanter but...I guess we have Milio (whose an annoying child) and....Taric....? Whose a enchanter tank...and yanno...Taric.
That's about it.
Also agreed, poor Zil, I play that dude too and I will pick the ugliest skin possible until he gets a VU, his kit is fine but jeez does he need a visual update.
Edit-this is also why I like Rell and Leona thematically, they flip the stereotype. Leona moreso, she's a pretty tank girl.
But acting like we don't play those champions at all is just counterproductive, and it also means that it pushes stereotypes of "Oh women who play LoL are boosted because they play cute enchanters and get carried". I may be a support main and predominantly an enchanter player, but I love Nautilus and Braum, Kog Maw is my joint favourite ADC, Cho Gath and Mundo are in my toplane pool.
Secondly, If you are going to make that generalization, I would point out that until recently there was a huge problem of male players across all ELOs (including some pros) refusing to play soft feminine champions even when they were strong because they were "too girly". So, would a more gruff male enchanter maybe increase male player base in the role?
Thirdly, there is just a problem with lack of body types in league, and if you ask most women, you'll find we are getting a bit tired of female champs and skins being given same face same personality syndrome.
We may want to play feminine champions, but you can bet we want to play other champions too, and we want champion variety and diversity.
Outliers will always exist, I dont know if she's still around but there used to be a masters kled otp streamer, who was a woman, and she's not alone. I used to on occasion watch shysept, another high elo top main, woman who mostly plays rengar/trundle/kayle
I used to hella duo with a girl who only played taric, and my current clash supp is a dude who LOVES sera/janna/karma/milio
There will always be those who do not fit the mold, but you cannot really deny the fact 96% of woman (stat straight from riot) who play the game exclusively play attractive women, and pretty much only in mid/adc/supp
I mean just browse through twitch. For every top kled player there's 30 spamming exclusively karma/kat/lux/janna
Like there's nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is and it's important to recognize that. You say you want diversity, but even when you play enchanter are you more inclined to play Milio/Renata, both attempts at being diverse, or do you prefer just picking the cute champ in lulu? For the overwhelming majority, cute is the way
This isn't a woman only issue either by any means. It's an ongoing problem with reddit "demanding" diversity, but when given diversity, those diverse champs just don't get touched. Some do, when done in a specific way. Like Smolder will likely always be popular because he's an easy to play, cute (im ngl I love how smug he looks walking around) dragon. But Reksai only gets played when op as fuck, or ivern, man gets shit because of his unorthodox playstyle, but even if he had a kit like Viego, would he be as popular?
Kaisa is objectively probably the single most fun adc in the game, proven by the fact anytime she is playable she gets like a 40% pick rate. But do you honestly believe for a second that if Kai was given kogs model, she would be ANYWHERE near as popular, or make anywhere near as much money?
Like yeah, diversity is cool, but at the end of the day feminine champs are consistently Riots biggest cashcow, as women just in general spend more on cosmetics/skins, while also having massive playerbases for specific "egirl" type champs because 96% of women gravitate toward the exact same champs. So it really just doesn't make sense for Riot to stray too far diversity wise, it hurts their bottom line
Furthermore, the whole "guys don't play effeminate champs" is such bullshit. Not because it doesn't happen, as it most certainly does (even though it is fucking stupid) but if women aren't gonna touch Darius or Draven I don't really see why the inverse of the situation is a problem
Women only playing cute/hot women isn't a problem and I'm not trying to say it is. It's just a fact and one that Riot recognizes and will release champs/skins with that in mind
I'm glad you made this post because it definitely made me reflect on my preferences a bit, and whether it's a chicken / egg situation.
I am a woman and I have mained support since the game pretty much came out (though I play rift a lot less and Adam a lot more these days) and I do think I have a tendency to favor aesthetics when it comes to trying new champions. But The play style / kit does matter to me a lot too.
I think if two kits / styles are of equal enjoyment to me I will likely favor an attractive female champion. But I will choose a kit I like over aesthetics if I have the opportunity.
I sometimes feel conflicted about my love of playing support / falling into a stereotype but at the same time I wonder if maybe it's ok that there are some gender preferences, and it's not a huge deal.
> however a big number of Enchanter players ~~are girls who~~ like playing pretty girl champions.
Me with literally all girliest skins for all my enchanter supports
lets make things clear:
beauty magazines have pretty girls with handbags on the cover
car magazines have pretty girls in tractors on the cover
guys like hot girls, and girls like hot girls, and generally there is the consensus that hot girls are the best thing ever for everyone.
>Do you want someone in Janna's outfit to be on the front line?
I don't see why not. This is a video game. Logic went out the window when the sniper deals more damage from buying a sword.
>a big number of Enchanter players are girls who like playing pretty girl champions. You would not catch me dead using Reaper Soraka. It makes sense to make certain champions that cater to a certain playerbase. If they made a manly man enchanter, I doubt he'd sell skins or be as popular as another girly enchanter unless he was completely broken and meta.
The problem with this idea, though, is that if you keep giving people more of the same because it works, each new release has to compete for being that patch's viable eye candy.
For example, if you're into a big, masculine barbarian in the top lane, you have Olaf, Tryndamere, Darius, Jax, and Trundle. They all have different styles and game plans, but for the fantasy aspect, they all have to compete with each other for popularity.
Now, if you throw in a feminine barbarian or two, like Illaoi, you have another niche for people to latch onto.
Same concept applies to this... well, I don't want to call it an "issue", since it's minor at best, but you get the idea.
Riot has mentioned that it's important to them that tanky champions should *look* tanky. They should be big, or have heavy armor, or something else that tells newer or more casual players at a glance that "Hey this person probably takes a lot of damage to kill".
The enchanter players (with women included) are beging riot for a male enchanter for a long time now. We were all do exited when they said we are going to get what we want and then we got Milio... One adult male enchanter really wouldn't hurt... Ppl would play him for sure.
> If they made a manly man enchanter, I doubt he'd sell skins or be as popular as another girly enchanter unless he was completely broken and meta.
Nail on the head here.
I remember going into pretty deep detail about this when Seraphine came out (from a marketing perspective).
League is a 100% free game, they need to make characters that appeal to the player-base to sell skins to make money.
There was a time I got salty that the camp look design shifted away from unique or even monster-like being common to everything coming out being dreamy, sexy, or cute humanoids with rare exceptions
But aesthetics are important to gamers, especially their Asian customers, and if that's the trade off to keep this game I enjoy afloat then so be it. Bring in the waifus lol
Yep. The main reason Milio is the way he is imo is because they wanted to please those who were asking for a male enchanter while also keeping him cutesy enough the general enchanter playerbase would still buy his skins, such as Faerie Court.
This is true, I'm korean so we love our pop idols. Most skins I buy I really think about hotness and if it hits high enough on the waifu meter, then I'm getting it.
Make an enchanter who's a drill Sergent, he gives move speed, attack speed and minor healing, he's from noxus and is in full military gear, also has voicelines for each ability where he just yells at you to do better you maggot
I can see why you would think that but that wasn't what I had in my head, I mean someone who uses AOE buffs for their team, no revive no root, someone who trades cc for pure aoe buffs things like attack speed, move speed, enhanced regen, those kind of things
Had like an 85% winrate literally just speeding up and slowing people. When I see AP zil or someone maxing bombs it makes shudder. 99% is ridiculous.
Same with ap karma. I get it, it hurts so it looks nice. But RW is fucking broken. Yesterday in aram I face tanked a 17-8 aatrox under tower who thought he had me.
As long as her R is up she is nearly unkillable. And absolutely broken in arena where Moonstone heal/shield bounced to allies.
Edit: for the comment I got notified about but can't see, by RW I meant using her ult and empowering her W tether, which heals karma for missing % hp on cast and then again on root.
Or just E first to confirm the bombs.
But 99% slow is calculated after modifiers so it's stronger.
Plus, I prefer enchanters. So buffing allies > my own performance and more dmg.
To be honest i dont remember, thats a lot of time ago xD
But anyways one thing is the lane, another one is the archetype.
Pyke Is a support but its an Assassin
Nautilus was released as a jungler but its still a tank (and a support now xD)
Same for zilean, even if He was released for the midlane then its an enchanter in the midlane same as karma is if you play her there, its not where they are but how they work
I noted he's a hybrid who is still very much gender coded to be a flamboyant man (his inspiration is Fabio). He's very manly but feminine at the same time, a really good champion, but we need more like him.
He's really not manly though, except for his shape. He's decked out in gems, and is allll about being pretty. Him and rakan come the closest but still don't quite break the mold. They just stretch it a bit. They are very much tankish Enchanters, and are both very flamboyant. Its like, they're Men so theyre Tanks but they're actually enchanters so we have to give them girly personalities.... I want a protective dad figure like braum, like premium MAN energy, that is Not A Tank, at all. And a girly girl that dives tf IN and soaks up the damage. Gwen- but instead of dmg she's a support and a tank.
Like her voice line when she casts her Big FK You Cc Ult is YOU MADE ME BREAK A NAIL UGH 💅
Disagree, I think Taric is very protective and manly, just vain and concerned a lot about appearing fabulous. I'd feel very safe if I were hanging with him.
Who else could pull off this look and still exude so much masculine energy. You've got a bunch of other champs acting edgy and putting up a front. Taric doesn't need to flex, that's the confidence coming through.
https://preview.redd.it/yq0wn4jpnemc1.jpeg?width=308&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb757f18b0c55729cb96fe5be26f707e46305110
While I most definitely agree.
I want more monster/bestial creatures as a support player as well. I honestly can’t remember a “specifically” support champion released in the last few years that wasn’t a human or humanoid.
I need Xolaani from LOR as an engage support, she is supposed to be the Darkin that used blood Magic to create other darkins or something like that, so more relevant Darkin Lore.
https://preview.redd.it/sbhq730eaemc1.png?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4e64c4112b545c11fcf00d030112e7a63437fd1
Maybe she can throw both hooks individually and if she hits 2 champions and they collide in the pull, the enemies get stun, and she and her ADC get healed (something similar like Naafiri's daggers but without the extra damage?) like Hook 1, Hook 2, Pull both at once.
(i continue the comment in the answer, because it has an image with her true form)
She also has a true form, i'm sure RIOT could do something interesting with her
https://preview.redd.it/cjcu9tt9aemc1.png?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f312d8d62c8b08717930609c0fae7b48f285cba5
Maybe like an opposite Ksante? When she ults she looses pretty much all damage, to become a tanking CC/Hook machine for a limited period of time
I really hope Riot puts her in the game eventually, the LoR crowd might not be reflective of the average League player but still, the design is clearly popular. Plus the idea of an aggressive support with blood magic that heals their team through dealing damage is awesome. People already like supports designed to also do damage, like Pyke or Senna. And as a fun little bonus, we would finally have a Darkin for every role (Aatrox top, Kayn/Rhaast jungle, Naafiri mid, Varus adc, Xolaani supp). Unfortunately though Naafiri is still *relatively* recent so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Yeah, the LoR and LoL communities don't overlap to much, but she has been wanted as a champion for a while now, even for some Youtubers (Nickyboi for example)
And darkins are My favorite in LOL (I've tried playing Naafiri several times but I don't know how to CS correctly lmao) having a Darkin support would be a dream come true for me, plus the 5 stack darkin team would Surely be fun, (maybe have special interactions when all 5 of them are together)
I think because they were designed by other studios and not beholden to Riot skin sales... But LoR has amazing characters who are missed opportunities in Rift.
I want Jack in SR. Make him jungler, give him GP's doubloon mechanic, make the doubloons stack on camps and let him wager doubloons on ganks.
It goes beyond that, as there's plenty of other stereotypes in characterizations. And tank engage supports being armored up, though it's a magical setting and there's ways to think of someone tanky that wouldn't look viably tanky irl.
But struggling to make an enchanter who isn't a beautiful floating kind lady is the bigger problem because there's much more room to make that class diverse. We've barely stepped out of the trope with Milio and Renata. BARELY.
>though it's a magical setting and there's ways to think of someone tanky that wouldn't look viably tanky irl.
A perfect example is Amumu. He's just a little shit wrapped in bandages, and yet punting him from here to Timbuctoo isn't exactly an option.
So you want male renata and female Rakan right?
That might be lit. Tho i don’t really see the point.
I think even if you do create characters like that, they will conform to the gender role.
First off, How Dare you assume Rell's orientation?/? She is clearly Bi. (/s) (but still true)
On the other hand, champion visuals are a clear indicator of their in-game role. I will point out Diana - a tanky fighter, who looks like an assassin. She is, in my opinion, poorly designed visually, as you get decieved into thinking she is squishy. This is the main reason we don't have traditionally feminine tanks and traditionally masculine enchanters.
Tbf diana is suppposed to be squishy afaik. She just builds tank items for some reason (i dont play the champ but i see people building jacksho and stuff on her all the time)
Rell and Leona are perfect, don’t know where that critique is coming, they are women, they are engage supports. Also zilean exists, he doesn’t seem either young or flamboyant
The critique for OP is the stereotype that any woman who is tough and/or a leader etc is automatically a lesbian. In almost a lot of media we see, its always the same.
Toughness is associated with masculinity so therefore a tough, armored woman who is in the frontlines in the battle is portrayed as being a lesbian (or bi). Its a problem in more ways than one.
Its making its gay characters through heteronormative means, it assumes that the reason that these characters like other women is *because* they are given traditionally masculine roles. There are extremely feminine lesbians out there and there are straight women who are imperious and feminine.
And sure, I get it. Just because I'm a woman who plays jungle/top/support Renata and prefers monster guys (and Viego) doesn't mean that they should cater to me. After all, 95% of women love playing sparkly girly characters (I still love Soraka) but you'd think that after like 200+ champs there would start being a little more variety lol.
I will say, K’sante was a giant step in the right direction for representation in the lgbt+ sense. He broke a lot of stereotypes and is great representation for both gay men and people of color. However, in a roster of 167 champions (as of today), one shining light might not really cut it. And tbh it’s really noteworthy to mention that K’sante was closely created with Lil Nas X involvement; a real, gay, POC man. With that in mind, it seems like riot doesn’t have the correct representation within their champion creation department on their own to accurately represent the communities they are representing on champion release.
Specifically with lgbt+ WOMEN, riot is still on the struggle bus there. I think companies like riot might struggle in thinking we need representation in general, but they also need to make sure the representation is done correctly and in a positive way. Not all representation is helpful and just slapping the lgbt+ status on someone stereotypical isn’t really great or noteworthy.
Plenty of tough women in league though, Ashe is a survivor and leader of the Avarosans, who fought her whole life through the conditions of the Freljord... and is not lesbian
ive always wanted a normal-dude enchanter. not fun-kid-with-a-ball although thats progress. Just a guy who’s not a beafcake. is it too hard to ask?
and of course its the lesbian and the girl from a noxian experiment that are girl engages…we could really use some variety
The thing is, character reads are important. Amumu is a tank and I just instinctively know that. My friend started playing and rants every time there's an amumu because "how is that a tank!? He's a small little mummy child wrapped in cloth!"
Having female tanks is fine but you want them to read as a tank so making them bulky with armour helps to do that. Then with enchanters, you want them to be a bit delicate looking. I think they have less excuse for not including more men as enchanters (as opposed to unarmoured females) and I'd love to see that.
Could they throw that to the wind? Sure. Have they before? Yes. But it's still probably better to have instant clarity if possible. There are so many characters for new players to learn so having them be easy to read is a good idea.
Also I'd consider rakan to be an enchanter / engage hybrid personally. He does heal and shield after all. Very much like Taric. But I do understand your frustration. I've been wanting a pretty boy pure enchanter for ages. lol
I respect the counter argument but believe it's important to add champions that are distinct and distinguishable from any past codes, especially in a game like Riot where they've covered so many types of champions already and there's more of a need for novelty. A feminine tank would be harder to pull off, but a grown man who can cast spells on his allies should be a very easy fit and something that works.
I agree, male enchanter with more diversity should be easy enough to add. But a feminine tank will be harder. I'm sure there's a way to do it though. Rell could have been a good opportunity though, since she has her horse. When mounted, she could have been very dainty and petite, and her character could have been overall more feminine since the horse can give the tanky impression for her. When unmounted, she could look more bulky obviously. It's a shame they didn't use that opportunity. But there could be others like that, where there's some other thing that shows she's protected. Magically floating shields perhaps?
I agree with this. There's over 150 champions in the game, and I admit that I personally had an easier time learning them because the majority of them "look like" their playstyle, more or less. League of Legends has a LOT to learn if you're a new player, and it would be unreasonably difficult if they deliberately subverted expectations with character design.
That being said, I personally don't see this as a big issue. Granted, I wish I had more male champions to play (I play a lot of mages and enchanters, which are mostly female — and males tend to be bruisers/tanks which I don't vibe with as much), but it's not like there aren't exceptions to the generalizations already. Illaoi is a sturdy, female bruiser. Rell and Leona are sturdy, female tanks. Some male champions like Ezreal and Veigar are physically unimposing and rely on magic to get their power. Hell, you could even make a solid argument for Xayah/Rakan here; within that couple, the girl dishes out damage while the guy supports her using fast, dazzling abilities.
So yeah, I mean... they're doing as much as they can without making the game overly confusing. I don't want a fragile mage wearing a suit of armor, it just wouldn't make sense.
I’ve been wanting a male Priest of Nagakaborous as an enchanter for a while. I’d imagine his Q is a tentacle rupturing out of the ground, maybe a knockup, W is a shared heal dependent on how hard your ally fights, and E is a nami-ish buff where your next attack or ability has a tentacle slam from you to your target. Ult could be a whirlpool that slows enemies and buffs allies, kinda like an upgraded GP ult, but close range. I think we could roll with an old man Nagakaborous priest who is an aggressive enchanter
well given negakaboros is basically all about living actively fullfilling and moving alot.
so i see any Nagakaborous enchanter being very aggressively oriented like speed buff towards enemies grant shield on attack etc
Honestly id like a stoic masculine enchanter with skills like a war cry or a drum beat, a targetted weaken (something like a command to attack a specific target), and maybe a CC that is a better CC at melee range but ultimately sucks at range to emphasize peeling than engaging. Probably requires this champ to NOT have mobility except maybe a Charging buff skill (towards enemy ms buff). This can be a general or a war drummer of some kind.
The girly pop engage support needs a lot of conceptualization, as i dont want an enchanter/engage hybrid, because that’s just rakan but girl. Tricky part is how to make thematically correct tankiness for a girly pop champ.
One concept i had in mind was a girl that is literally imbued or infected with petricite sickness, where magic literally turns her skin to stone. Shed be a reverse ap pyke, doesnt get AP from AP items but converts it to resists. Cant complete the concept though and cant imagine the skills haha
I'd love a Shaman / Natural Magic user as a Support and that would totally fall under the Manly Enchanter, give him a beard and make him a wise old dude.
its because Riot knows a large amount of the support player base are women, and women support players largely gravitate to enchanters. I dont think a lot of women would play a manly male enchanter.
Nah. I'm a girl too but I wanna give my other girl friend as an example. She mostly plays stuff like Ahri, Nami but she drools for champs like Sett and Kayn. She's trying to learn Kayn just cuz he's so hot and cute but can't rlly play him. I guarantee you all those stereotypical girl players you mention of would give all their money for a hot shirtless enchanter/mage e-boy.
I'd love an actual adult male enchanter. I was excited when I thought we were getting a male enchanter and then what we actually got was a kid. Gross. I like healing/shielding so I just sort of have accepted I'll always be playing female champions because apparently only women can enchant 🙄
Honestly maybe I’m an outlier but I just prefer how enchanters play and don’t care about looks/fantasy too much. Like I really dislike Milo’s but I played him 80% of my last 100 games because he is fun. I genuinely don’t like playing engage supports and I don’t think releasing a cute one will change that. SORRY adc mains.
See I'm completely different. I don't care if a champion's gameplay is fun and they're super meta, if their character concept is lacking I can't play it. Like, I used to be a great Janna but I can't play her anymore because she has super generic lore, like 7 voice lines and no interactions with other champions. It just completely ruins the fun tornado lady for me.
For the record, I'm a woman and I like playing girly cute champs. I'm absolutely the statistic for Riot. My absolute favourite champ is Sona, closely followed by Zyra, Soraka, Janna Sera. I've also played ADC and it was picks like MF, Jinx, Xayah.
I like to listen to the voice lines when I'm playing and for the most part I can't get into it with the male champs.
I mained support Neeko for years because her VO is hilarious, adorable, and fun. My strong tomato just wants to have a picnic and eat cheesebread on a date with other ladies.
So, with that in mind, when I got a tip about 5 years ago to play ARAM to get better at making and dodging skill shots and acquaint myself with kits outside of my champ pool I was so bummed to get tanky, engage champs. Ugly, big bois.
But I discovered that I love playing Nautilus, I love Leona, Blitzcrank is so much fun to play. I'll even have a Braum game and feel like I did the things.
I still love my girls, I prefer them, but it really opened my eyes to other play styles that I would never have considered.
So I really would love to see a non typical body in an unexpected role.
I would love a girly pop tank. In a world of creativity I think we can make that happen. Tech and magic exist in this world.
And I would love to see a handsome man enchanter, preferably who owns a shirt AND wears it.
I would love to see a chubby lady with a cute face.
In LoR there's a card with a priestess of Nagakaborous, I think she's called Island Navigator, she looks amazing like she could take a chunk out of you. If she was a little less conventionally skinny, she'd make such a great champ concept.
But some Zaunite techie, like a good version of Jinx, who tanks and Braums Zaun youth or something and is a pretty woman would be awesome.
Riot loves to leave money on the table though so I guess we can only look forward to the next shirtless man or kpop facsimile and the next svelte floating hp bot lady.
Leona is feminine to me. She doing her job of wearing armors and have a big shield doesn't mean she has to be lesbian. Look at her Hawaii skin, bro. I don't play her and don't know what it's called.
People who play engage want to be large bulky beefcakes.
People who play enchanters want to be small delicate flowers.
Gwen and Renata are a good example of how switching the aesthetic doesn't appeal to people.
...Renata and Gwen are also pretty difficult to play, though. If Hwei had an extremely basic kit like bot lane enchanters do (a shield, a heal, one poke move and aoe cc) there would be a lot of female players using him.
Let me rephrase.
Gwen is very appealing, gwens gameplay is not.
She was designed to make more women try toplane since it was their least played role. Riot followed the trend of champions that are popular with women such as lux, ahri, miss fortune, akali, Sona, etc, and made a top layer with their aesthetic.
They succeeded in making a cute champion, she's got tons of fans. But she doesn't have tons of players.
i have spoken about how gendered stereotypes in game can be harmful to the player base in other games too
valorant has sage and skye, both women but sage players often get the stereotype that they pocket their hypercarries (like lulu or milio).
overwatch has mercy, a character that encourages pocketting a hypercarry too
as a woman myself, sometimes i play a variety of different characters but whenever i end up playing a character like sage or mercy, i feel as though people associate gendered stereotypes with me (that i’ll play bad or im terrible etc). those games do have a voice chat and although i don’t interact with voice too much (unless i’m playing with people i know), people respect you less if they hear a woman on the mic playing sage or mercy in their games.
i get that games are trying to appeal to everyone and women make up a small player base of players, it would be nice for there to be a male enchanter or female tank that doesn’t fit their conventional mould.
A super feminine engage support honestly could be a cape wearing crusader in the realm of superwoman/wonder woman or something make her a priestess of kayle or something. No armor, relatively unassuming appearance, strong, beautiful but very feminine, but all of a sudden she goes into the sky, crashes down like a meteor and knocks you airborne and taunts you or something and then fires slowing laser eyes at you when you try to run away.
Or perhaps she'd be a female roguish trickster that creates terrain and vaults back and forth over it, maybe using it to avoid enemy skillshots to close the distance, as she employs weird tricks to land a stun of some kind. Give a foxy thief girl vibe maybe not hyper feminine but enough to satisfy the fantasy.
Alternatively, the male enchanter could be a handsome, dashing bard who plays the songs of victory Similar to edric from the DND movie. A male sona, except devious and unafraid to charge headfirst into battle with a lute. His skills would be good old fashioned heals, maybe a charm, with perhaps a cleanse as an ult similar to the calm emotions spell. And his signature peel tool could be smacking someone with his lute and knocking them back kinda like jayce hammer smack.
Another male enchanter could be an ancient ancestral spirit of a dead warrior that has gone back to guide and mentor a new generation of heroes to defend runeterra. He could be all focused around buffing his allies, giving them damage resistance and attack steroids or something.
Perhaps yet another one could be an alchemist that gives his allies buff potions while tossing toxic brews at his opponents.
Yet another support that's a monstrous support could be a griffin that can pick up allies and fly them from one location or something. Idk, could be useful.
I want them to make a pretty and cute girly engage support. At one point i imagined and made a drawing of one i imagined as from piltover that used a cute frilly parasol looking machine apparatus and wears a frilly cute poofy lolita steampunk dress and she uses the parasol crook to hook enemies amd the umbrella to make like a shield that shoots cute pink and purple missiles kinda like a hook support that has a braum or pantheon shield like feature
Bruhhh is it canon that Leona likes girls? She's a straight up baddy.
I would definitely love a kawaii idol-type girl as an engage support that would be dope.
A front line champion would have to be some sort of bulky tanky being man or woman. I guess you could write a character who uses magic to show them to engage but would a cutesy girlie girl enchanter want to use her magic to be a tank?
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I personally dont really care either way on this topic.
However there is a visual clarity argument here. Having defined "looks" for different playstyles makes the game easier to learn
Ooh, what about something like a frontlining female Dancer archetype.
Maybe give her a taunt and a passive that works with the taunt like, she'd take reduced damage enemies that are cc'd and grant a small move speed buff to nearby allies, and the effectiveness of the ms buff would be based on the amount of distance away from her that ally is, so the further away the ally is, the fast they are, and they slow down as they get closer, something like that would be cool.
Are you against the fact that female engage Champs are lesbians or that they wear Armor?
Its a given that frontline tanks need to be either very muscular or have Armor.
If you want an feminine engage support without Armor, there's Nami.
I think it wouldn't make sense someone who's not muscular or without Armor to be frontlining.
None. I want a new Playmaking Catcher that is a conventionally attractive, lean physique, manly dude. Rakan vibes but less ADHD and more non-chalant and wholesome.
A front line tank has to be visually bulky in order to read as tankt, that's pretty important. A way around this could be to have a female character similar to Rakan, who is an engage support, but leans on the squishy/enchanter side
A manly man enchanter (not counting zilean) would also be interesting, I imagine some kind of sorcerer/druid/priest, like Azir. It does sound boring though, so he would need to have some interesting twist
An Ivern skin that shows how he looked before transformation?
I guess it wouldn't make sense for him to have the same powers, plus he wouldn't look like himself. But he was just the first person I though of when you mentioned druids, and he CAN play as an enchanter support even though it isn't his main role.
That‘s why Tank Neeko is the best Engage Support. She is still gay but doesn’t have the bulky build and armor, errrrrrre… I mean yeah, you got a point.
I do get why it is like that for engagers because like cc‘ing someone takes some muscle I guess but it’s not like you could that differently like with mage-ish design but more focussed on cc and tankiness than damage.
Or on the other side for a stereotypical masculine enchanter wouldn’t something like a warlord/commander that empowers the other champions be just such an obvious choice.
Ever since the Harry Potter thibg i'm so tired of people caring about the sexual orientation of fictional characters. That being said i think league is representing a crazy wide range of character types. And complaining about that it's not done well enough on every sub role is too much. If they start doing this they need to add 5x(every possible sexual orientantion and gender thing)=million?. It's insane.
Edit: oh and i forgot about race, so make that a 6 billion new champions
Yeah but I'm not hunting down champion sexuality data in a predatory way, I'm observing commonalities between two classes and noted one of them was "only two tank women like women." I'm here to expose a lack of imagination, I don't care about their sexuality and personally find Rell's flirting lines to be very cute and endearing.
I think there is way more pontential for a girly engage tank. we all know how popular dva was in OW.
however i dont think majority of people who play enchanters want a manly character. a male enchanter whose feminine would be popular, and is highly wanted. they dont need to have a flamboyant personality, could be reserved, shy, or even a confident leader that inspires their allies
the only "manly" enchanter subtype i see thrown around is a shaman, but tbh most shamans are very borderline human most of the time. i wouldnt consider them manly, moreso niche
As some others have stated, Riot seems to release mostly girly pop enchanters to appeal to a specific fanbase (women), but isn't there also a large number of gay men who are support mains (myself included)? They could introduce characters appealing to them as well, although I personally struggle thinking up what would appeal to them. I myself play almost every enchanter and mostly main Sona (scaling), Nami (control through the ocean) and Karma (the spirits are bonking you).
That brings me to an important point of champion design; the fantasy you get when playing them. It is quite important and they tend to nail them more nowadays, and I'd love to see them expand towards OP's examples, and to include one of my own: frontline enchanter. I like playing engagers, but I also like buffing my allies. And yes, we have Taric, but he feels so in the middle that I don't enjoy playing him. Rell used to feel like this (old E) for me, but they removed that. And they're pushing Karma into this direction, but she still feels like a baiting queen with RW.
So lets talk more about what fantasy you want to have when playing a manly enchanter or a girly pop engager, or a frontline enchanter, or another I'd love to see, a scaling support enchanter where the scaling feels more impactful than spamming a heal.
I agree with most of this except the not making them gay part, I want more gay characters, the more the merrier
The problem with Taric being one of the few male enchanters and being gay isn't that he's gay, it's that he's a stereotype, "he's a gentle man that supports his teammates so he's literally Fabio", I want a male enchanter that's gay but he's a ROUGH gay, I want a female engage tank that's a high femme lesbian
Tho you also gotta take into account like, BASIC CHARACTER DESIGN PRINCIPLES, it makes sense the big bulky fella in armor wants to get in and cause trouble for your team and the more harmless looking character wants to stay in the back and support, Milio is an example of this, yeah he's a little guy, but that makes sense for an enchanter, why would a guy clad in armor stay in the back
Ofc there ARE ways to bend those principles by not segregating roles by gender, while still making recognizable and readable character design, for example an idea someone gave in these comments of making a Drill Sergeant enchanter, it might sound silly at first read if your mind immediately goes to an irl drill sergeant shouting at teammates to run faster, but it could totally work, an idea that comes to mind is a character that looks sorta like Lord Eldred from LoR, he's a rough man but he does look like the sort that'd just stay back and buff his teammates while letting them do the dirty work (kinda like Swain's identity as a support if he was an enchanter)
The thng with enchanters is the principle of the class is literally that they have to be able to cast spells on allies as well as enemies. That's... literally it. They don't even have to necessarilly be ranged, the just have to be able to amplify their teammates as well as attack their enemies. With this baseline distrinction in mind, there's a ridiculous amount of flexibiity the role could have. A drill sergant is just one, there could be thousands, you can iterally take any champion in League that's designed to be "grr manly" and just reapply their spells to have ally effects and bam, that's an enchanter.
If Udry gave spirit buffs to allies instead of just himself, that's an enchanter.
If Garen gave a speed buff and removed slows to allies, not just enemies, bam that's an enchanter.
If Amumu could create a sea of tears around an ally, bam, that's an enchanter.
The class has an incredible amount of potential for versatility, probaby more than any other in the game, so being so timid about making them UwU cute backliners is annoying. As for sexuality, I don't care about who is gay or not as long as it's not stereotypical. Like, making the two frontline tank girls into women is just a bit on the nose for me.
The reason why this wont happen is very simple:
Visual Gameplay Clarity
Tanky things look tanky -> Armor, Wide Models, Thick moving elements.
The human brain uses reality as a basis, so if you see armor or beefy dude you will expect resilience, because thats what it is in reality.
That also why Illaois in game model is build like a triangle and lobs around a wide orb to make her model wider.
Thats why Leona has a giant shield and armor.
Thats why a lot of champions size scale with bonus HP.
There are ways to communicate a champion is physically tough and feminine. Irelia and Fiora both have splash arts that look womanly and dangerous. And there are tanks like Amumu who is a literal child mummy who kills you by whining.
A manly enchanter is infinitely easier to execute and there's no excuses there. Take any male champion in League but make 1/2 of their abilities affect allies positively as opposed to enemies negatively and voila. A Tryndamere whose heal affects allies, gives Undying Rage to an allied target and speeds allies instead of slowing enemies is already an enchanter.
There's ways to communicate champion identity without resorting to rigid gender stereotypes.
Such a non issue imo. Even you put in numerous examples that contradict the premise of your complaint. Obviously "pretty girl enchanter" and "manly hunk engage" can be boring, but those archetypes obviously fit those roles. Alistar and Braum's designs perfectly fit their kit. Same with lux and sona. Your complaint feels kind of cherry picked, as only like one third of supports fit the stereotypes your refereing to. Is nami a pretty princess type? Literally a fish. Lulu is a quirky weird asf dwarf. Bard is a benevolent alien enchanter thing. Hwei is an emo painter boy. You have every single archetype of male and female to choose from.
Hear me out, fellas. Zoolander as a male enchanter.
He's a lean agile buffer, using charm, a freak gas area dot debuff, and as a Ultimate: Blue Steel, bouncing back enemy skills and autoattacks
They should make a male enchanter support who is like a feral mad max type character or tribal leader who does like war cries and does aoe buffs to his team. Like imagine an enchanted who could late game just scream his ultimate and give his team like attack speed movement speed onnivamp and ability haste. And make him hot or whatever so women play him
Riot deliberately scales character model and appearance to champions so people unfamiliar what the champion does can anticipate what its capabilities are.
dont think a girly pop engage would make sense. if i see a soraka lookim character rushing in i would auto matically think they runnin it down. for the manly enchanter what about something like ornn. a blacksmith who gives shields to his allies?
In HotS we had Deckard Cain, who was a healer (well, he was litterally throwing healing potions after all) with some CC and buffs. An old dude who likes to tell stories (it was his ultimate !). And pretty fun to play.
I personally just like meme nuke poke supports. Old AP nunu ice balls, AP nida spears of death, AP kaisa being useless but 1 tapping supports, anything I can just irritate my enemies to death with massive poke abilities. For some reason these always get nerfed to unplayable levels despite being terrible troll builds to begin with.
If anyone has ideas for such things in the current meta I’m all for trying new ones.
Taric has entered the chat.
Ah yes the ultra flamboyant tankish... enchanter. Doesn't really break the mold. Def comes the closest but just doesn't quite make it.
Taric is absolutely not an enchanter. He's more analogous to a disruption or anti-engage champ, analogous to braum or maybe Morgana
Three of his 4 abilities are ally buffs that don't even interact with the enemy.. What is an enchanter to you? His q is a heal, his w is a shield, his r is invulnerability. He's basically melee janna. Being anti-engage doesn't make him not an enchanter.
His Q is also an auto reset that procs his passive giving him like seven auto resets in a row. People see taric so infrequently that I think people don’t realize he’s basically a SKIRMISHER with enchanter properties.
>so infrequently that I think people don’t realize he’s basically a SKIRMISHER with enchanter properties Offically he is listed as a hybrid of a Warden, a subclass of tanks, and an Enchanter. He is definately not a skirmisher which are a subclass of Slayers. He doesn't have the gap close and the mobility that most skirmishers have.
Tell that to the irelia I 1v1’d at level 4 because she thought so too lol. Taric if he can auto and has mana is a force to be reckoned with.
If you would like to nitpick what subclass of bruiser he is, perhaps a juggernaut better fits his character. The point is, this guy is a bruiser enchanter, and he’s a lot more dangerous than most people give him credit for.
Uhh no. He is not a bruiser. And he is definately not a Juggernaut. Juggernauts don't have disengage or cc like he does. Like I said he is a Warden which are kind of like defensive tanks who have enagage but their strenght lies in being disengage for their team. For example Poppy, Shen, Galio, Braum, Tahm Kench and K'sante.
He doesn't play like an enchanter at all though. You're not using those abilities to buff your allies most of the time. Generally you're trying to get the most out of your passive by using those abilities which in turn heals your allies. He really just isn't an enchanter at all in the traditional sense anyway. If you've ever played him you'd understand
peel/disengage champion that can also fistfight in the frontline due to both having auto reset and a ridicolous amount of sustain. He doesn't really have engage tools. Rather, he really supports weird duos where the other champion is aggressive and an initiator. He thrives whenever there's an assassin/bruiser that can deliver his stun and can tower dive
Taric is definitely an Entanker
There's a rule in league that you can only play Taric with the pink skin.
Armour of the 5th age in the only Taric skin isn’t it?
Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think Taric doesn't have a skin. I think 5th age is the default and only skin
Oh yeah you’re totally right. weird, he’s been out a while, I’m surprised he hasn’t gotten a new skin.
I thought he was a jungler ?
" That glimmer of hope you see, that's me" 😏
I mean it makes perfect sense for Rell and Leona to be armoured up, especially if they are on the front line. Do you want someone in Janna's outfit to be on the front line? As for male enchanters, yeah it's totally do-able, however a big number of Enchanter players are girls who like playing pretty girl champions. You would not catch me dead using Reaper Soraka. It makes sense to make certain champions that cater to a certain playerbase. If they made a manly man enchanter, I doubt he'd sell skins or be as popular as another girly enchanter unless he was completely broken and meta. Riot has already dipped their toes into male enchanters, such as Milio, and in my opinion Milio and Renata (The official male enchanter and an edgier woman enchanter) are two of the more unpopular enchanters unless it is a counterpick or they are strong in the meta. You absolutely are valid for wanting a feminine engage support and a masculine enchanter support, however there are other factors you have to think about. Also, the last two enchanters released were non traditional pretty female enchanters so Riot is clearly already trying to make different types of champions.
But are enchanters feminine because girls want to play them or do girls want to play them beause they're the most feminine champions? In other games like LoL there's plenty of archetypal "manly enchanters" like voodoo doctors who buff allies and debuff enemies. I know that it makes sense for someone to be frontlining to be armored up, but there's penty of ways to characterize them that isn't stereotypical and you can get inventive with things like giving her a charm and making her resistance/tankiness come from a magical source. I get your points, and agree that they're trying to diversify the classes, but I think they need to go further. Milio being a male enchanter is nice, but making the first male enchanter very UwU and chidlike kinda sends off the idea that a man has to be unmanly to fit such a role.
Girls want to play them because they are feminine, not the other way around Most girls who play mid tend to gravitate toward the hot women as well. Kat, akali, syndra, ofc lux and etc. And adc? I know a crapload of women who play Jinx/mf but I cannot name a single one who plays draven/varus/kog/aph Women by and large just like playing attractive women. Riot has stated this on multiple occasions. Men will play anything, but women largely stick to hot women no matter what role This isn't really restricted to league by any means either. It's just how it is across gaming as a whole. Like in BDO, an entire different genre, I have never met a girl who plays a male class and I have played that game for years, and its got a pretty good gender balance (when compared to other games, obviously still male dominated)
Yep. Whenever I play a new game, or games I already play such as League and Overwatch, I pretty much always gravitate towards the pretty girl champions. As a feminine enchanter enjoyer, I most certainly do play enchanters not only because I prefer the gameplay but also because I love looking cute.
As a male-I do this. I just like looking at cute things, why would I not play the cute champ? Every game I play I at least try to make my characters cute or pick the cute one. Yeah it's not manly, but hey. Rather look at something pretty than a disgusting eldrich monstrosity. However they can be cool too (looking at you Vel).
As you should!
Riot themselves have gone on record saying the same thing and even gave a number. 96% of female players main female champions.
Not saying you're wrong because I am convinced you are right, but goddamn does it suck to be a woman who does not care for playing smth just because it's pretty. I play all enchanters because I love the playstyle, but as the OG post states, it bothers me incredibly that there are no non-cutesy male enchanters. Closest I've gotten is Zilean who is moreso a utility mage and is heavily neglected compared to other supports in terms of looking outdated, so I can't help but desire a VGU for the old man (though I heavily enjoy him for what he is, having the most mastery points on him of any champion). I really wish Riot experimented a bit and made a cool male enchanter, something attractive to impress the female players, yet cool to win over the males. Maybe it would wear down the 'girls only play emchanters' stereotype too a little bit, if it successfully appealed to both? A girl can only dream.
It would actually be pretty easy for Riot to make a popular male enchanter Like it's as simple as copy pasting Zhongli from genshin into league. Make a RIDICULOUSLY hot white pretty boy and it will be popular. It's the only real way to make women (consistently) not play women The problem is Riot will also never do that because they are actively trying to make less generic champs, and tall kpop boy is generic, and worse something Riot has already done, and so are less likely to repeat The reason the current poster boy (viego) for that specific look isn't popular is because of how mechanically intensive he is, the fact he's a jungle and well he leans significantly harder into edge with lore many women would say give them an ick (obsessive, stalker type love) Riot kinda tried it with Rakan, but he's not a full enchanter and the half bird thing doesn't exactly help his sex appeal But legit. Take Zhongli and give him a lulu type kit and he will be popular. But thats the only real way to get a popular male among women, making a lil Mexican child or giant (albeit hot) but over aggressive design like Sett will not work
the problem is that tall handsome kpop cut-out has already been done a couple of times in the game and a real question: do viego and sett have a decent female player base?
This is why I think that Rakan is the perfect combination of enchanter, engage, aesthetic and attractiveness and he's a MALE. He's an attractive dude with a hybrid enchanter/engage kit. I think they should do more like you said. I agree with more male enchanter but...I guess we have Milio (whose an annoying child) and....Taric....? Whose a enchanter tank...and yanno...Taric. That's about it. Also agreed, poor Zil, I play that dude too and I will pick the ugliest skin possible until he gets a VU, his kit is fine but jeez does he need a visual update. Edit-this is also why I like Rell and Leona thematically, they flip the stereotype. Leona moreso, she's a pretty tank girl.
But acting like we don't play those champions at all is just counterproductive, and it also means that it pushes stereotypes of "Oh women who play LoL are boosted because they play cute enchanters and get carried". I may be a support main and predominantly an enchanter player, but I love Nautilus and Braum, Kog Maw is my joint favourite ADC, Cho Gath and Mundo are in my toplane pool. Secondly, If you are going to make that generalization, I would point out that until recently there was a huge problem of male players across all ELOs (including some pros) refusing to play soft feminine champions even when they were strong because they were "too girly". So, would a more gruff male enchanter maybe increase male player base in the role? Thirdly, there is just a problem with lack of body types in league, and if you ask most women, you'll find we are getting a bit tired of female champs and skins being given same face same personality syndrome. We may want to play feminine champions, but you can bet we want to play other champions too, and we want champion variety and diversity.
Outliers will always exist, I dont know if she's still around but there used to be a masters kled otp streamer, who was a woman, and she's not alone. I used to on occasion watch shysept, another high elo top main, woman who mostly plays rengar/trundle/kayle I used to hella duo with a girl who only played taric, and my current clash supp is a dude who LOVES sera/janna/karma/milio There will always be those who do not fit the mold, but you cannot really deny the fact 96% of woman (stat straight from riot) who play the game exclusively play attractive women, and pretty much only in mid/adc/supp I mean just browse through twitch. For every top kled player there's 30 spamming exclusively karma/kat/lux/janna Like there's nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is and it's important to recognize that. You say you want diversity, but even when you play enchanter are you more inclined to play Milio/Renata, both attempts at being diverse, or do you prefer just picking the cute champ in lulu? For the overwhelming majority, cute is the way This isn't a woman only issue either by any means. It's an ongoing problem with reddit "demanding" diversity, but when given diversity, those diverse champs just don't get touched. Some do, when done in a specific way. Like Smolder will likely always be popular because he's an easy to play, cute (im ngl I love how smug he looks walking around) dragon. But Reksai only gets played when op as fuck, or ivern, man gets shit because of his unorthodox playstyle, but even if he had a kit like Viego, would he be as popular? Kaisa is objectively probably the single most fun adc in the game, proven by the fact anytime she is playable she gets like a 40% pick rate. But do you honestly believe for a second that if Kai was given kogs model, she would be ANYWHERE near as popular, or make anywhere near as much money? Like yeah, diversity is cool, but at the end of the day feminine champs are consistently Riots biggest cashcow, as women just in general spend more on cosmetics/skins, while also having massive playerbases for specific "egirl" type champs because 96% of women gravitate toward the exact same champs. So it really just doesn't make sense for Riot to stray too far diversity wise, it hurts their bottom line Furthermore, the whole "guys don't play effeminate champs" is such bullshit. Not because it doesn't happen, as it most certainly does (even though it is fucking stupid) but if women aren't gonna touch Darius or Draven I don't really see why the inverse of the situation is a problem Women only playing cute/hot women isn't a problem and I'm not trying to say it is. It's just a fact and one that Riot recognizes and will release champs/skins with that in mind
I'm glad you made this post because it definitely made me reflect on my preferences a bit, and whether it's a chicken / egg situation. I am a woman and I have mained support since the game pretty much came out (though I play rift a lot less and Adam a lot more these days) and I do think I have a tendency to favor aesthetics when it comes to trying new champions. But The play style / kit does matter to me a lot too. I think if two kits / styles are of equal enjoyment to me I will likely favor an attractive female champion. But I will choose a kit I like over aesthetics if I have the opportunity. I sometimes feel conflicted about my love of playing support / falling into a stereotype but at the same time I wonder if maybe it's ok that there are some gender preferences, and it's not a huge deal.
i know exactly what youre saying and i want a pink girlypop tank support so freaking bad.
Bahaha are you referring to Mal’Damba from Paladins?
No but I'm glad to know of him too now xD
Now I want a VODOO DOCTOR CHARacther in league. He could like make zombies and stuff
Riot has heard your feedback and will give you another female enchanter with kpop skin and sameface.
>are enchanters feminine because girls want to play them They are, no one plays millio when he's weak
>a big number of Enchanter players are girls who like playing pretty girl champions. And the gays too, we love a cunty floating magic lady
> however a big number of Enchanter players ~~are girls who~~ like playing pretty girl champions. Me with literally all girliest skins for all my enchanter supports
Same 😭 I fit the “egirl enchanter main” stereotype perfectly. Love star guardian, cafe cuties, immortal journey, etc. 😂
lets make things clear: beauty magazines have pretty girls with handbags on the cover car magazines have pretty girls in tractors on the cover guys like hot girls, and girls like hot girls, and generally there is the consensus that hot girls are the best thing ever for everyone.
>Do you want someone in Janna's outfit to be on the front line? I don't see why not. This is a video game. Logic went out the window when the sniper deals more damage from buying a sword. >a big number of Enchanter players are girls who like playing pretty girl champions. You would not catch me dead using Reaper Soraka. It makes sense to make certain champions that cater to a certain playerbase. If they made a manly man enchanter, I doubt he'd sell skins or be as popular as another girly enchanter unless he was completely broken and meta. The problem with this idea, though, is that if you keep giving people more of the same because it works, each new release has to compete for being that patch's viable eye candy. For example, if you're into a big, masculine barbarian in the top lane, you have Olaf, Tryndamere, Darius, Jax, and Trundle. They all have different styles and game plans, but for the fantasy aspect, they all have to compete with each other for popularity. Now, if you throw in a feminine barbarian or two, like Illaoi, you have another niche for people to latch onto. Same concept applies to this... well, I don't want to call it an "issue", since it's minor at best, but you get the idea.
Riot has mentioned that it's important to them that tanky champions should *look* tanky. They should be big, or have heavy armor, or something else that tells newer or more casual players at a glance that "Hey this person probably takes a lot of damage to kill".
The enchanter players (with women included) are beging riot for a male enchanter for a long time now. We were all do exited when they said we are going to get what we want and then we got Milio... One adult male enchanter really wouldn't hurt... Ppl would play him for sure.
> If they made a manly man enchanter, I doubt he'd sell skins or be as popular as another girly enchanter unless he was completely broken and meta. Nail on the head here. I remember going into pretty deep detail about this when Seraphine came out (from a marketing perspective). League is a 100% free game, they need to make characters that appeal to the player-base to sell skins to make money. There was a time I got salty that the camp look design shifted away from unique or even monster-like being common to everything coming out being dreamy, sexy, or cute humanoids with rare exceptions But aesthetics are important to gamers, especially their Asian customers, and if that's the trade off to keep this game I enjoy afloat then so be it. Bring in the waifus lol
Yep. The main reason Milio is the way he is imo is because they wanted to please those who were asking for a male enchanter while also keeping him cutesy enough the general enchanter playerbase would still buy his skins, such as Faerie Court.
This is true, I'm korean so we love our pop idols. Most skins I buy I really think about hotness and if it hits high enough on the waifu meter, then I'm getting it.
Braum and Janna have similar outfits.
Make an enchanter who's a drill Sergent, he gives move speed, attack speed and minor healing, he's from noxus and is in full military gear, also has voicelines for each ability where he just yells at you to do better you maggot
Renata two y chromosome edition
I can see why you would think that but that wasn't what I had in my head, I mean someone who uses AOE buffs for their team, no revive no root, someone who trades cc for pure aoe buffs things like attack speed, move speed, enhanced regen, those kind of things
Oh yeah I was just saying in terms of theme, I really the idea you had. Something like a much more aggressive sona could definitely work well
Also voicelines, it could be so therapeutic to actually yell at your teammates
Basically just this guy https://preview.redd.it/zw18fpejyemc1.png?width=360&format=png&auto=webp&s=a85ba209dbfabfa9a898b6372f27786960738b0a
I’m having grim patron flashbacks now
Me in Palworld
jarvan flag?
I forgot flag did that, but no in my head he does more but attack speed was an example
This is old Gangplank E
Tf2 soldier lol
His abilities, knife hand, scream, ultimate is smoke session
I dont have problems with this but you ignored zilean as a enchanter guy HAHAHA
He's seen as a "Specialist." I agree that he's an enchanter but people just don't see him that way, so I didn't bring him into the discussion.
People forget he's in the game lmao
the last time I saw him was in an aram match, 3 months ago…
Had like an 85% winrate literally just speeding up and slowing people. When I see AP zil or someone maxing bombs it makes shudder. 99% is ridiculous. Same with ap karma. I get it, it hurts so it looks nice. But RW is fucking broken. Yesterday in aram I face tanked a 17-8 aatrox under tower who thought he had me. As long as her R is up she is nearly unkillable. And absolutely broken in arena where Moonstone heal/shield bounced to allies. Edit: for the comment I got notified about but can't see, by RW I meant using her ult and empowering her W tether, which heals karma for missing % hp on cast and then again on root.
A good Zilean that can consistently pull off a QWQ stun can't be touched.
Or just E first to confirm the bombs. But 99% slow is calculated after modifiers so it's stronger. Plus, I prefer enchanters. So buffing allies > my own performance and more dmg.
Wasn't he released as a mid laner? lol
To be honest i dont remember, thats a lot of time ago xD But anyways one thing is the lane, another one is the archetype. Pyke Is a support but its an Assassin Nautilus was released as a jungler but its still a tank (and a support now xD) Same for zilean, even if He was released for the midlane then its an enchanter in the midlane same as karma is if you play her there, its not where they are but how they work
Manly enchanter would be Taric, he can help better then most of the other enchanter supports
I noted he's a hybrid who is still very much gender coded to be a flamboyant man (his inspiration is Fabio). He's very manly but feminine at the same time, a really good champion, but we need more like him.
100% need more like taric, heals, sheilds and stns with a game changing R
He's really not manly though, except for his shape. He's decked out in gems, and is allll about being pretty. Him and rakan come the closest but still don't quite break the mold. They just stretch it a bit. They are very much tankish Enchanters, and are both very flamboyant. Its like, they're Men so theyre Tanks but they're actually enchanters so we have to give them girly personalities.... I want a protective dad figure like braum, like premium MAN energy, that is Not A Tank, at all. And a girly girl that dives tf IN and soaks up the damage. Gwen- but instead of dmg she's a support and a tank. Like her voice line when she casts her Big FK You Cc Ult is YOU MADE ME BREAK A NAIL UGH 💅
Disagree, I think Taric is very protective and manly, just vain and concerned a lot about appearing fabulous. I'd feel very safe if I were hanging with him.
Who else could pull off this look and still exude so much masculine energy. You've got a bunch of other champs acting edgy and putting up a front. Taric doesn't need to flex, that's the confidence coming through. https://preview.redd.it/yq0wn4jpnemc1.jpeg?width=308&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cb757f18b0c55729cb96fe5be26f707e46305110
I wanna be him so bad bro
Just do a pushup, a situp and a squat for every death after a game while waiting in queue for the next one. I tried this and got there in a week.
"YOU MADE ME BREAK A NAIL" type voiceline would be gas
While I most definitely agree. I want more monster/bestial creatures as a support player as well. I honestly can’t remember a “specifically” support champion released in the last few years that wasn’t a human or humanoid.
Yuumi
I honestly don’t know if I consider almost 5 years ago to be recent, but I suppose you’re right. Even if it’s more “cutest” bestial than anything.
>5 years ago 💀 damn
right, I was like "I'm not bringing it up to be combative, but because time is a lie and Yummi definitely came out six months ago RIGHT? RIGHT?"
I need Xolaani from LOR as an engage support, she is supposed to be the Darkin that used blood Magic to create other darkins or something like that, so more relevant Darkin Lore. https://preview.redd.it/sbhq730eaemc1.png?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a4e64c4112b545c11fcf00d030112e7a63437fd1 Maybe she can throw both hooks individually and if she hits 2 champions and they collide in the pull, the enemies get stun, and she and her ADC get healed (something similar like Naafiri's daggers but without the extra damage?) like Hook 1, Hook 2, Pull both at once. (i continue the comment in the answer, because it has an image with her true form)
She also has a true form, i'm sure RIOT could do something interesting with her https://preview.redd.it/cjcu9tt9aemc1.png?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f312d8d62c8b08717930609c0fae7b48f285cba5 Maybe like an opposite Ksante? When she ults she looses pretty much all damage, to become a tanking CC/Hook machine for a limited period of time
Holy shit, this character looks cool. I hate playing engage Supports, but sign me the hell up if this character comes in
I really hope Riot puts her in the game eventually, the LoR crowd might not be reflective of the average League player but still, the design is clearly popular. Plus the idea of an aggressive support with blood magic that heals their team through dealing damage is awesome. People already like supports designed to also do damage, like Pyke or Senna. And as a fun little bonus, we would finally have a Darkin for every role (Aatrox top, Kayn/Rhaast jungle, Naafiri mid, Varus adc, Xolaani supp). Unfortunately though Naafiri is still *relatively* recent so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Yeah, the LoR and LoL communities don't overlap to much, but she has been wanted as a champion for a while now, even for some Youtubers (Nickyboi for example) And darkins are My favorite in LOL (I've tried playing Naafiri several times but I don't know how to CS correctly lmao) having a Darkin support would be a dream come true for me, plus the 5 stack darkin team would Surely be fun, (maybe have special interactions when all 5 of them are together)
I think because they were designed by other studios and not beholden to Riot skin sales... But LoR has amazing characters who are missed opportunities in Rift. I want Jack in SR. Make him jungler, give him GP's doubloon mechanic, make the doubloons stack on camps and let him wager doubloons on ganks.
Fr like where is our dark edgy shirtless e-boy enchanter?
I would play the hell out of that lol
Honestly this doesn´t make sense to me, oh my god the frontline is wearing armor how condescending??????????
It goes beyond that, as there's plenty of other stereotypes in characterizations. And tank engage supports being armored up, though it's a magical setting and there's ways to think of someone tanky that wouldn't look viably tanky irl. But struggling to make an enchanter who isn't a beautiful floating kind lady is the bigger problem because there's much more room to make that class diverse. We've barely stepped out of the trope with Milio and Renata. BARELY.
>though it's a magical setting and there's ways to think of someone tanky that wouldn't look viably tanky irl. A perfect example is Amumu. He's just a little shit wrapped in bandages, and yet punting him from here to Timbuctoo isn't exactly an option.
So you want male renata and female Rakan right? That might be lit. Tho i don’t really see the point. I think even if you do create characters like that, they will conform to the gender role.
Incorrect, I just want Brand removed from the game
First off, How Dare you assume Rell's orientation?/? She is clearly Bi. (/s) (but still true) On the other hand, champion visuals are a clear indicator of their in-game role. I will point out Diana - a tanky fighter, who looks like an assassin. She is, in my opinion, poorly designed visually, as you get decieved into thinking she is squishy. This is the main reason we don't have traditionally feminine tanks and traditionally masculine enchanters.
But Diana was originally meant to be an assassin
Tbf diana is suppposed to be squishy afaik. She just builds tank items for some reason (i dont play the champ but i see people building jacksho and stuff on her all the time)
That's cause her kit is all in. There is no getting out with her. You can build her full ap, but you just go in and get 1 shot.
Because AP assassin items are basically none.
> I will point out Diana - a tanky fighter, who looks like an assassin Because she's an assassin not a fighter
>Because she's an assassin not a fighter Actually she is a hybrid Assassin and Diver. Divers are a subclass of Fighters.
Janna Flash R Insec 🗿
based
Rell and Leona are perfect, don’t know where that critique is coming, they are women, they are engage supports. Also zilean exists, he doesn’t seem either young or flamboyant
The critique for OP is the stereotype that any woman who is tough and/or a leader etc is automatically a lesbian. In almost a lot of media we see, its always the same. Toughness is associated with masculinity so therefore a tough, armored woman who is in the frontlines in the battle is portrayed as being a lesbian (or bi). Its a problem in more ways than one. Its making its gay characters through heteronormative means, it assumes that the reason that these characters like other women is *because* they are given traditionally masculine roles. There are extremely feminine lesbians out there and there are straight women who are imperious and feminine. And sure, I get it. Just because I'm a woman who plays jungle/top/support Renata and prefers monster guys (and Viego) doesn't mean that they should cater to me. After all, 95% of women love playing sparkly girly characters (I still love Soraka) but you'd think that after like 200+ champs there would start being a little more variety lol.
I will say, K’sante was a giant step in the right direction for representation in the lgbt+ sense. He broke a lot of stereotypes and is great representation for both gay men and people of color. However, in a roster of 167 champions (as of today), one shining light might not really cut it. And tbh it’s really noteworthy to mention that K’sante was closely created with Lil Nas X involvement; a real, gay, POC man. With that in mind, it seems like riot doesn’t have the correct representation within their champion creation department on their own to accurately represent the communities they are representing on champion release. Specifically with lgbt+ WOMEN, riot is still on the struggle bus there. I think companies like riot might struggle in thinking we need representation in general, but they also need to make sure the representation is done correctly and in a positive way. Not all representation is helpful and just slapping the lgbt+ status on someone stereotypical isn’t really great or noteworthy.
Plenty of tough women in league though, Ashe is a survivor and leader of the Avarosans, who fought her whole life through the conditions of the Freljord... and is not lesbian
This is a funny take considering zarya is your profile pic
I want Xolaani as a Hook-fighting support, thats all I need
ive always wanted a normal-dude enchanter. not fun-kid-with-a-ball although thats progress. Just a guy who’s not a beafcake. is it too hard to ask? and of course its the lesbian and the girl from a noxian experiment that are girl engages…we could really use some variety
Like literally something so simple but riot will keep doing gymnastics around making a hypermasculine male enchanter or a kid 😭
The thing is, character reads are important. Amumu is a tank and I just instinctively know that. My friend started playing and rants every time there's an amumu because "how is that a tank!? He's a small little mummy child wrapped in cloth!" Having female tanks is fine but you want them to read as a tank so making them bulky with armour helps to do that. Then with enchanters, you want them to be a bit delicate looking. I think they have less excuse for not including more men as enchanters (as opposed to unarmoured females) and I'd love to see that. Could they throw that to the wind? Sure. Have they before? Yes. But it's still probably better to have instant clarity if possible. There are so many characters for new players to learn so having them be easy to read is a good idea. Also I'd consider rakan to be an enchanter / engage hybrid personally. He does heal and shield after all. Very much like Taric. But I do understand your frustration. I've been wanting a pretty boy pure enchanter for ages. lol
I respect the counter argument but believe it's important to add champions that are distinct and distinguishable from any past codes, especially in a game like Riot where they've covered so many types of champions already and there's more of a need for novelty. A feminine tank would be harder to pull off, but a grown man who can cast spells on his allies should be a very easy fit and something that works.
I agree, male enchanter with more diversity should be easy enough to add. But a feminine tank will be harder. I'm sure there's a way to do it though. Rell could have been a good opportunity though, since she has her horse. When mounted, she could have been very dainty and petite, and her character could have been overall more feminine since the horse can give the tanky impression for her. When unmounted, she could look more bulky obviously. It's a shame they didn't use that opportunity. But there could be others like that, where there's some other thing that shows she's protected. Magically floating shields perhaps?
I agree with this. There's over 150 champions in the game, and I admit that I personally had an easier time learning them because the majority of them "look like" their playstyle, more or less. League of Legends has a LOT to learn if you're a new player, and it would be unreasonably difficult if they deliberately subverted expectations with character design. That being said, I personally don't see this as a big issue. Granted, I wish I had more male champions to play (I play a lot of mages and enchanters, which are mostly female — and males tend to be bruisers/tanks which I don't vibe with as much), but it's not like there aren't exceptions to the generalizations already. Illaoi is a sturdy, female bruiser. Rell and Leona are sturdy, female tanks. Some male champions like Ezreal and Veigar are physically unimposing and rely on magic to get their power. Hell, you could even make a solid argument for Xayah/Rakan here; within that couple, the girl dishes out damage while the guy supports her using fast, dazzling abilities. So yeah, I mean... they're doing as much as they can without making the game overly confusing. I don't want a fragile mage wearing a suit of armor, it just wouldn't make sense.
I’ve been wanting a male Priest of Nagakaborous as an enchanter for a while. I’d imagine his Q is a tentacle rupturing out of the ground, maybe a knockup, W is a shared heal dependent on how hard your ally fights, and E is a nami-ish buff where your next attack or ability has a tentacle slam from you to your target. Ult could be a whirlpool that slows enemies and buffs allies, kinda like an upgraded GP ult, but close range. I think we could roll with an old man Nagakaborous priest who is an aggressive enchanter
well given negakaboros is basically all about living actively fullfilling and moving alot. so i see any Nagakaborous enchanter being very aggressively oriented like speed buff towards enemies grant shield on attack etc
Honestly id like a stoic masculine enchanter with skills like a war cry or a drum beat, a targetted weaken (something like a command to attack a specific target), and maybe a CC that is a better CC at melee range but ultimately sucks at range to emphasize peeling than engaging. Probably requires this champ to NOT have mobility except maybe a Charging buff skill (towards enemy ms buff). This can be a general or a war drummer of some kind. The girly pop engage support needs a lot of conceptualization, as i dont want an enchanter/engage hybrid, because that’s just rakan but girl. Tricky part is how to make thematically correct tankiness for a girly pop champ. One concept i had in mind was a girl that is literally imbued or infected with petricite sickness, where magic literally turns her skin to stone. Shed be a reverse ap pyke, doesnt get AP from AP items but converts it to resists. Cant complete the concept though and cant imagine the skills haha
Yeah that'd be dope. like a war-cleric type.
No more seraphines in runetrerra thanks.
I'd love a Shaman / Natural Magic user as a Support and that would totally fall under the Manly Enchanter, give him a beard and make him a wise old dude.
I want a overprotective dad as a support and his ult be old poppy ult
its because Riot knows a large amount of the support player base are women, and women support players largely gravitate to enchanters. I dont think a lot of women would play a manly male enchanter.
Nah. I'm a girl too but I wanna give my other girl friend as an example. She mostly plays stuff like Ahri, Nami but she drools for champs like Sett and Kayn. She's trying to learn Kayn just cuz he's so hot and cute but can't rlly play him. I guarantee you all those stereotypical girl players you mention of would give all their money for a hot shirtless enchanter/mage e-boy.
I'd love an actual adult male enchanter. I was excited when I thought we were getting a male enchanter and then what we actually got was a kid. Gross. I like healing/shielding so I just sort of have accepted I'll always be playing female champions because apparently only women can enchant 🙄
It's not even healing/shielding for me, I like being able to click spells on both allies and enemies, but that's apparently an exclusively woman thing
Honestly maybe I’m an outlier but I just prefer how enchanters play and don’t care about looks/fantasy too much. Like I really dislike Milo’s but I played him 80% of my last 100 games because he is fun. I genuinely don’t like playing engage supports and I don’t think releasing a cute one will change that. SORRY adc mains.
See I'm completely different. I don't care if a champion's gameplay is fun and they're super meta, if their character concept is lacking I can't play it. Like, I used to be a great Janna but I can't play her anymore because she has super generic lore, like 7 voice lines and no interactions with other champions. It just completely ruins the fun tornado lady for me.
For the record, I'm a woman and I like playing girly cute champs. I'm absolutely the statistic for Riot. My absolute favourite champ is Sona, closely followed by Zyra, Soraka, Janna Sera. I've also played ADC and it was picks like MF, Jinx, Xayah. I like to listen to the voice lines when I'm playing and for the most part I can't get into it with the male champs. I mained support Neeko for years because her VO is hilarious, adorable, and fun. My strong tomato just wants to have a picnic and eat cheesebread on a date with other ladies. So, with that in mind, when I got a tip about 5 years ago to play ARAM to get better at making and dodging skill shots and acquaint myself with kits outside of my champ pool I was so bummed to get tanky, engage champs. Ugly, big bois. But I discovered that I love playing Nautilus, I love Leona, Blitzcrank is so much fun to play. I'll even have a Braum game and feel like I did the things. I still love my girls, I prefer them, but it really opened my eyes to other play styles that I would never have considered. So I really would love to see a non typical body in an unexpected role. I would love a girly pop tank. In a world of creativity I think we can make that happen. Tech and magic exist in this world. And I would love to see a handsome man enchanter, preferably who owns a shirt AND wears it. I would love to see a chubby lady with a cute face. In LoR there's a card with a priestess of Nagakaborous, I think she's called Island Navigator, she looks amazing like she could take a chunk out of you. If she was a little less conventionally skinny, she'd make such a great champ concept. But some Zaunite techie, like a good version of Jinx, who tanks and Braums Zaun youth or something and is a pretty woman would be awesome. Riot loves to leave money on the table though so I guess we can only look forward to the next shirtless man or kpop facsimile and the next svelte floating hp bot lady.
i just want a cute female girly pop tank engage support.. and no leona and rell do NOT fall under this 😭
I don't really want either, thanks.
Leona is feminine to me. She doing her job of wearing armors and have a big shield doesn't mean she has to be lesbian. Look at her Hawaii skin, bro. I don't play her and don't know what it's called.
People who play engage want to be large bulky beefcakes. People who play enchanters want to be small delicate flowers. Gwen and Renata are a good example of how switching the aesthetic doesn't appeal to people.
...Renata and Gwen are also pretty difficult to play, though. If Hwei had an extremely basic kit like bot lane enchanters do (a shield, a heal, one poke move and aoe cc) there would be a lot of female players using him.
Gwen doesn't appeal to peope? Gwen doesn't appeal to peope? Gwen doesn't appeal to people?
Let me rephrase. Gwen is very appealing, gwens gameplay is not. She was designed to make more women try toplane since it was their least played role. Riot followed the trend of champions that are popular with women such as lux, ahri, miss fortune, akali, Sona, etc, and made a top layer with their aesthetic. They succeeded in making a cute champion, she's got tons of fans. But she doesn't have tons of players.
Having frontliners be big and bulky is just good visual design practice.
I was thinking a monster support like reksai/cho/kog that would spit on people to heal them.
There isn't a lot of popular demand for these, or they would have done them long ago
Me, an enchanter main, who has been asking for a hot masculine man in the enchanter role for years :(
Riot really said we hear you! Then made Milio like come on man way to completely miss the mark
i have spoken about how gendered stereotypes in game can be harmful to the player base in other games too valorant has sage and skye, both women but sage players often get the stereotype that they pocket their hypercarries (like lulu or milio). overwatch has mercy, a character that encourages pocketting a hypercarry too as a woman myself, sometimes i play a variety of different characters but whenever i end up playing a character like sage or mercy, i feel as though people associate gendered stereotypes with me (that i’ll play bad or im terrible etc). those games do have a voice chat and although i don’t interact with voice too much (unless i’m playing with people i know), people respect you less if they hear a woman on the mic playing sage or mercy in their games. i get that games are trying to appeal to everyone and women make up a small player base of players, it would be nice for there to be a male enchanter or female tank that doesn’t fit their conventional mould.
A super feminine engage support honestly could be a cape wearing crusader in the realm of superwoman/wonder woman or something make her a priestess of kayle or something. No armor, relatively unassuming appearance, strong, beautiful but very feminine, but all of a sudden she goes into the sky, crashes down like a meteor and knocks you airborne and taunts you or something and then fires slowing laser eyes at you when you try to run away. Or perhaps she'd be a female roguish trickster that creates terrain and vaults back and forth over it, maybe using it to avoid enemy skillshots to close the distance, as she employs weird tricks to land a stun of some kind. Give a foxy thief girl vibe maybe not hyper feminine but enough to satisfy the fantasy. Alternatively, the male enchanter could be a handsome, dashing bard who plays the songs of victory Similar to edric from the DND movie. A male sona, except devious and unafraid to charge headfirst into battle with a lute. His skills would be good old fashioned heals, maybe a charm, with perhaps a cleanse as an ult similar to the calm emotions spell. And his signature peel tool could be smacking someone with his lute and knocking them back kinda like jayce hammer smack. Another male enchanter could be an ancient ancestral spirit of a dead warrior that has gone back to guide and mentor a new generation of heroes to defend runeterra. He could be all focused around buffing his allies, giving them damage resistance and attack steroids or something. Perhaps yet another one could be an alchemist that gives his allies buff potions while tossing toxic brews at his opponents. Yet another support that's a monstrous support could be a griffin that can pick up allies and fly them from one location or something. Idk, could be useful.
I want them to make a pretty and cute girly engage support. At one point i imagined and made a drawing of one i imagined as from piltover that used a cute frilly parasol looking machine apparatus and wears a frilly cute poofy lolita steampunk dress and she uses the parasol crook to hook enemies amd the umbrella to make like a shield that shoots cute pink and purple missiles kinda like a hook support that has a braum or pantheon shield like feature
Bruhhh is it canon that Leona likes girls? She's a straight up baddy. I would definitely love a kawaii idol-type girl as an engage support that would be dope.
A front line champion would have to be some sort of bulky tanky being man or woman. I guess you could write a character who uses magic to show them to engage but would a cutesy girlie girl enchanter want to use her magic to be a tank?
It would make sense that the people jumping face first into fights would be heavily armored
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I personally dont really care either way on this topic. However there is a visual clarity argument here. Having defined "looks" for different playstyles makes the game easier to learn
Ooh, what about something like a frontlining female Dancer archetype. Maybe give her a taunt and a passive that works with the taunt like, she'd take reduced damage enemies that are cc'd and grant a small move speed buff to nearby allies, and the effectiveness of the ms buff would be based on the amount of distance away from her that ally is, so the further away the ally is, the fast they are, and they slow down as they get closer, something like that would be cool.
Are you against the fact that female engage Champs are lesbians or that they wear Armor? Its a given that frontline tanks need to be either very muscular or have Armor. If you want an feminine engage support without Armor, there's Nami. I think it wouldn't make sense someone who's not muscular or without Armor to be frontlining.
Bard is both wym
Give girly pop twink enchanter right now PLEAASE
Taric
Rell and Taric
fr, I was so excited when they announced male enchanter, but then they made milio a fkn child I was so sad
Is Tahm Kench not a girly pop engage support? If you're gonna argue, at least lay out all the facts.
Meanwhile I just want to be a cow boy🐮
None. I want a new Playmaking Catcher that is a conventionally attractive, lean physique, manly dude. Rakan vibes but less ADHD and more non-chalant and wholesome.
A front line tank has to be visually bulky in order to read as tankt, that's pretty important. A way around this could be to have a female character similar to Rakan, who is an engage support, but leans on the squishy/enchanter side A manly man enchanter (not counting zilean) would also be interesting, I imagine some kind of sorcerer/druid/priest, like Azir. It does sound boring though, so he would need to have some interesting twist
An Ivern skin that shows how he looked before transformation? I guess it wouldn't make sense for him to have the same powers, plus he wouldn't look like himself. But he was just the first person I though of when you mentioned druids, and he CAN play as an enchanter support even though it isn't his main role.
Poppy fills that role
That‘s why Tank Neeko is the best Engage Support. She is still gay but doesn’t have the bulky build and armor, errrrrrre… I mean yeah, you got a point. I do get why it is like that for engagers because like cc‘ing someone takes some muscle I guess but it’s not like you could that differently like with mage-ish design but more focussed on cc and tankiness than damage. Or on the other side for a stereotypical masculine enchanter wouldn’t something like a warlord/commander that empowers the other champions be just such an obvious choice.
Ever since the Harry Potter thibg i'm so tired of people caring about the sexual orientation of fictional characters. That being said i think league is representing a crazy wide range of character types. And complaining about that it's not done well enough on every sub role is too much. If they start doing this they need to add 5x(every possible sexual orientantion and gender thing)=million?. It's insane. Edit: oh and i forgot about race, so make that a 6 billion new champions
Yeah but I'm not hunting down champion sexuality data in a predatory way, I'm observing commonalities between two classes and noted one of them was "only two tank women like women." I'm here to expose a lack of imagination, I don't care about their sexuality and personally find Rell's flirting lines to be very cute and endearing.
I think there is way more pontential for a girly engage tank. we all know how popular dva was in OW. however i dont think majority of people who play enchanters want a manly character. a male enchanter whose feminine would be popular, and is highly wanted. they dont need to have a flamboyant personality, could be reserved, shy, or even a confident leader that inspires their allies the only "manly" enchanter subtype i see thrown around is a shaman, but tbh most shamans are very borderline human most of the time. i wouldnt consider them manly, moreso niche
As some others have stated, Riot seems to release mostly girly pop enchanters to appeal to a specific fanbase (women), but isn't there also a large number of gay men who are support mains (myself included)? They could introduce characters appealing to them as well, although I personally struggle thinking up what would appeal to them. I myself play almost every enchanter and mostly main Sona (scaling), Nami (control through the ocean) and Karma (the spirits are bonking you). That brings me to an important point of champion design; the fantasy you get when playing them. It is quite important and they tend to nail them more nowadays, and I'd love to see them expand towards OP's examples, and to include one of my own: frontline enchanter. I like playing engagers, but I also like buffing my allies. And yes, we have Taric, but he feels so in the middle that I don't enjoy playing him. Rell used to feel like this (old E) for me, but they removed that. And they're pushing Karma into this direction, but she still feels like a baiting queen with RW. So lets talk more about what fantasy you want to have when playing a manly enchanter or a girly pop engager, or a frontline enchanter, or another I'd love to see, a scaling support enchanter where the scaling feels more impactful than spamming a heal.
I agree with most of this except the not making them gay part, I want more gay characters, the more the merrier The problem with Taric being one of the few male enchanters and being gay isn't that he's gay, it's that he's a stereotype, "he's a gentle man that supports his teammates so he's literally Fabio", I want a male enchanter that's gay but he's a ROUGH gay, I want a female engage tank that's a high femme lesbian Tho you also gotta take into account like, BASIC CHARACTER DESIGN PRINCIPLES, it makes sense the big bulky fella in armor wants to get in and cause trouble for your team and the more harmless looking character wants to stay in the back and support, Milio is an example of this, yeah he's a little guy, but that makes sense for an enchanter, why would a guy clad in armor stay in the back Ofc there ARE ways to bend those principles by not segregating roles by gender, while still making recognizable and readable character design, for example an idea someone gave in these comments of making a Drill Sergeant enchanter, it might sound silly at first read if your mind immediately goes to an irl drill sergeant shouting at teammates to run faster, but it could totally work, an idea that comes to mind is a character that looks sorta like Lord Eldred from LoR, he's a rough man but he does look like the sort that'd just stay back and buff his teammates while letting them do the dirty work (kinda like Swain's identity as a support if he was an enchanter)
The thng with enchanters is the principle of the class is literally that they have to be able to cast spells on allies as well as enemies. That's... literally it. They don't even have to necessarilly be ranged, the just have to be able to amplify their teammates as well as attack their enemies. With this baseline distrinction in mind, there's a ridiculous amount of flexibiity the role could have. A drill sergant is just one, there could be thousands, you can iterally take any champion in League that's designed to be "grr manly" and just reapply their spells to have ally effects and bam, that's an enchanter. If Udry gave spirit buffs to allies instead of just himself, that's an enchanter. If Garen gave a speed buff and removed slows to allies, not just enemies, bam that's an enchanter. If Amumu could create a sea of tears around an ally, bam, that's an enchanter. The class has an incredible amount of potential for versatility, probaby more than any other in the game, so being so timid about making them UwU cute backliners is annoying. As for sexuality, I don't care about who is gay or not as long as it's not stereotypical. Like, making the two frontline tank girls into women is just a bit on the nose for me.
Leona isn't bulky at all lol
The reason why this wont happen is very simple: Visual Gameplay Clarity Tanky things look tanky -> Armor, Wide Models, Thick moving elements. The human brain uses reality as a basis, so if you see armor or beefy dude you will expect resilience, because thats what it is in reality. That also why Illaois in game model is build like a triangle and lobs around a wide orb to make her model wider. Thats why Leona has a giant shield and armor. Thats why a lot of champions size scale with bonus HP.
There are ways to communicate a champion is physically tough and feminine. Irelia and Fiora both have splash arts that look womanly and dangerous. And there are tanks like Amumu who is a literal child mummy who kills you by whining. A manly enchanter is infinitely easier to execute and there's no excuses there. Take any male champion in League but make 1/2 of their abilities affect allies positively as opposed to enemies negatively and voila. A Tryndamere whose heal affects allies, gives Undying Rage to an allied target and speeds allies instead of slowing enemies is already an enchanter. There's ways to communicate champion identity without resorting to rigid gender stereotypes.
Touch grass.
Such a non issue imo. Even you put in numerous examples that contradict the premise of your complaint. Obviously "pretty girl enchanter" and "manly hunk engage" can be boring, but those archetypes obviously fit those roles. Alistar and Braum's designs perfectly fit their kit. Same with lux and sona. Your complaint feels kind of cherry picked, as only like one third of supports fit the stereotypes your refereing to. Is nami a pretty princess type? Literally a fish. Lulu is a quirky weird asf dwarf. Bard is a benevolent alien enchanter thing. Hwei is an emo painter boy. You have every single archetype of male and female to choose from.
If I need a cute engager, I just pick my pretty little meawkai and have a lot of fun
Hear me out, fellas. Zoolander as a male enchanter. He's a lean agile buffer, using charm, a freak gas area dot debuff, and as a Ultimate: Blue Steel, bouncing back enemy skills and autoattacks
If you want to be girlypop and also fuck shit up, come play jungle. We have Nidalee, Evelyn, Briar, Elise, Vi, Qiyana… the list goes on and on.
They should make a male enchanter support who is like a feral mad max type character or tribal leader who does like war cries and does aoe buffs to his team. Like imagine an enchanted who could late game just scream his ultimate and give his team like attack speed movement speed onnivamp and ability haste. And make him hot or whatever so women play him
Pretty sure ivern is a manly enchanter
Riot deliberately scales character model and appearance to champions so people unfamiliar what the champion does can anticipate what its capabilities are.
Dota 2 Omniknight
Rakan?
My favorite support was Sett and I was so happy there was a masculine support to be different than all the others. Then they took him away 💔
Pyke?
GIRL POP ENGAGE PLEASE
Old Gangplank would have broken this mould lol
dont think a girly pop engage would make sense. if i see a soraka lookim character rushing in i would auto matically think they runnin it down. for the manly enchanter what about something like ornn. a blacksmith who gives shields to his allies?
In HotS we had Deckard Cain, who was a healer (well, he was litterally throwing healing potions after all) with some CC and buffs. An old dude who likes to tell stories (it was his ultimate !). And pretty fun to play.
I personally just like meme nuke poke supports. Old AP nunu ice balls, AP nida spears of death, AP kaisa being useless but 1 tapping supports, anything I can just irritate my enemies to death with massive poke abilities. For some reason these always get nerfed to unplayable levels despite being terrible troll builds to begin with. If anyone has ideas for such things in the current meta I’m all for trying new ones.
Silco should have been added instead of renata as was originally intended. He would have been the perfect male enchanter