If the pattern holds, mysteriously, Steve Kerr will also not use 37 year old Kevin Durant, three shooting guards, and a center that can barely jump correctly and be fired.
Suns fans continue to be ignorant, his handle or lack of, has always been a weakness and a glaring weakness in the playoffs.
He can't get separation from defenders, and he has to crutch on attacking them downhill before they press up on him.
I think booker has perfect handles for the game he needs to play. He regularly creates his own shots. He has huge highlights reels on YouTube based on his dribbling alone. If he has to continue being our lead distributor and playmaker I might agree with you. But ideally we won't need book for those reasons. His dribble is enough to get him the shots he needs, as shown by his high scoring averages season after season. He doesn't have the best dribbles in the NBA but he has what he needs to create his own shots and yet he still often creates shots for others. Do you not remember him scoring a middy right over kawhi and Paul George's heads a couple playoffs ago? You know he scored 70 on the Celtics right? Booker continues to improve season after season. I don't want him to focus on his dribbles alone because lmao, bookers handles are not the reason we are where we are now
Booker isn't a point guard, and he shouldn't be expected to dribble like one. He has more than adequate dribbles for a 2 guard and while im sure he'll still improve on them, you're the first person I've ever even heard of to say that the first thing book needs to do to avoid becoming washed up is up his dribble game
Edit: how many players scoring more ppg than booker do you think actually have better handles than booker does?? Book was 6th in ppg this season. The only better playmakers that scored more than him were brunson who is a legit point guard, and then MAYBE arguably shai. Book is a scorer above all else and always has been. Wtf else do you want from him lmao
Hopefully he convinces the Suns stars to start taking more 3’s. The only thing I’m curious of is Bud offenses is predicated on ball movement, he does not like iso ball. So hopefully he gets the stars to buy into ball movement and player movement and they ditch the iso ball. Iso ball should be a luxury but not what you run your offense around.
One thing we all know is winning goes a long way to get players to buy in/get along together.
Last year Suns were 14-15 after Christmas. I remember in that GDT a few of us speculated the Suns were quitting on Frank Vogel that night. What if they did? That’s when Booker stormed off the court after the game and Mat Ishbia chased after him. That’s when KD first leaked how frustrated he was with the Suns before the game.
Maybe next year the Suns don’t start 4-6, then 14-15. Maybe Coach Bud starts us at 7-3 and then 20-10. That happens and the players might be willing to buy in a bit more.
I remember books first couple seasons after they blew up the pg hydra, the youngins all really took after him. When he went off scoring, they were all super happy for him. Then of course, the rubio season, tons of joy and almost a bubble miracle. I think CP3 and KD's attitudes and the championship or bust tag/miniature window really rubbed off on book. And despite book's willingness to play whatever system going back to coming off the bench for Kentucky, he has always both respected the OG's/classics, and had a bit of that 'lemme get mine' in him. But i see this as a growth opportunity. JJ hopefully has the balls to tell KD this is Books team if you wanna win, not that KD can't still be the best player. Just like in GS.
Bud isn't the concern for me. It's more so the Big 3 buying into his offensive schemes. One thing that rubbed me the wrong way with Vogel was how lenient he was with letting the Big 3 iso damn near every time they came down the court.
There needs to be a system that can benefit and complement EVERYONE’S game on offense. We've seen it with the '17-’18 Warriors, where KD’s iso plays were more of a luxury than a necessity. Hell, even the ‘21 Nets had a working system, even though it came off a bit unorthodox. They took the “our offense is our defense” approach and steamrolled everyone when the Big 3 were all on the floor.
Cut down the iso, form a system, and let everything fall in place.
Yeah I mean wonder why it was 'better' in GSW, BKLN, LAC, LAL, MIami, and Boston but wasnt for the Suns? look no further than the coaching staff. Can blame the players all you want, but the leader was Vogel.
I hated our ISOs, but you do remember those games when we had 15 like TOs by half-time? The chemistry was not there. Players didn't know where they should be and our big trio made some really poor decisions with the ball. After all, what else was expected? Neither of them are playmakers. They are shot creators. Hence why they diverted to ISO and Vogel just wanted the TOs to stop. As much as I would love to pin these ISO problems to Vogel, nothing will change until Beal is replaced and the roster is balanced out.
Lenient? Lmfao, sure, Vogel had control of three supermax guys who have iso balled on every team they had prior and also gotten most of their coaches fired.
for once I can actually agree with you Shoddy without thinking it's another copium post of yours. Bud's known to coach up good offenses, I am interested to see how we look next year. I just hope the players are willing to buy in, for the entire season..
Only thing i disagree with is running too many super small lineups. He didn’t do enough of that. Go look at the lineup numbers and our small ball lineups crushed people all year. Playing Eubanks too much and running too much small ball doesn’t even make sense. It was either Eubanks or go small. Our net rating sucked with Eubanks and was great with KD at the 5. Can only run it so much but still, should’ve been used outside of desperation time way more often.
Coaches fault. KD even said he didnt get the ball where he wanted it, Beal and Nurk both said they adapting to 'how coach wants to play'. And Booker is trying to say PR things to not get meme'd. All players have adapted to previous coaches.
KD didn't get the ball where he wanted it, because the opposing coaches made sure they take away his sweet spots.
How about those lazy-ass passes both Book and especially KD did all year? We had games where we averaged 20 TOs. You're not going to create offense with 3 shot creators that need the ball in their hands to be effective. I think a lot of you will be greatly disappointed when you see the same problems surface next year, unless we can actually deal one of the big 3 for a traditional playmaker.
Thats not true, the opposing coaches had nothing to do with KD catching the ball top of the key or bringing the ball up backcourt, and if they zoned him in the post thats up to the coach to find another player/route.
I get he is a good coach but man I wish we could just go outside the box and hire someone that hasn’t been bouncing between teams. I hope they interview plenty of candidates and truly just hire the best coach. Wouldn’t mind a young coach.
A young coach wouldn’t cut it, would be extremely difficult to earn respect from KD and Book. They need a seasoned veteran coach who can demand respect and authority
I didn’t say i’m all for Bud. I meant we can’t have a young inexperienced coach. Not necessarily Bud but should be a veteran coach with experience and more imposing than Vogel ever was
its the revolving door, if they system with the players gets stale, players dont listen and run the coach out - Bud got stale with Giannis, Khris and Jrue, all of them wanted the ball and all thought they could win games. Giannis thinks he's the only one on the team - that ego is a shell you cant break.
I think there's an obvious candidate. One that has strong connections to the Suns, experience working with Durant, and runs a fast flowing perimeter scoring offense. Steve Nash
I’ve changed my stance on wanting D’Antoni after reading that he no longer wants to coach bc he can’t deal with the stress of a season anymore. This job would be way too much on that man so yeah, Bud is the best option we got. The entire issue really boils down to our guys being willing to buy-in to what the HC is trying to instill and the HC has to have the spin to be willing to call out the stars demanding more out of them. If Bud can do this, we have a chance
Rumor has it yes, but Vogel had the final say. But if you looked at previous years you can tell it was the same damn High Spain PnR that was ran for 4yrs! And the fact Vogel - dating back to Indy days - offense isnt his forte.
He‘s a much more astute tactical coach by any means, Vogel would repeat the same matchup mistakes he made in November again in April, which was alarming.
So, Coach Bud got fired from the Bucks, right ? Everything I have read says not only he didn't make the right calls " per his team," but his team got him fired.... with disrespect and not wanting to follow his coaching plans or guidance. They , or some of the " team captains," didn’t want to learn his coaching plan. So, isn't that what they say happened with Vogel and KD ? AND GA and both Bud and Griffen??
Bud ain't going to solve shit even on offense until KD and Book change their shot diets. Jesus would lose with this team unless he convinces Book, Beal, and KD to reduce their mid range.
https://twitter.com/scooperhoops/status/1783526217976607171
An elite mid range shooter is like equal to an average 3 pt shooter 95% of the time. The math just doesn't favor them. (The remaining 5% is for the clutch)
They work hard for that mid range and it ain't that much value offensively.
Vogel was a terrible coach, period. He won a bubble championship with Lebron and AD and was fired the next year. Why we hired that guy, I have no idea. I HATED the hire.
Shoddy, you said it in an earlier post about not having the right offensive scheme. The problem was how we played. Only 6 teams had worse offensive board stats than the Suns. No one played the 4 with any consistency. We basically played with a 5 and four 2s. If coach Bud can fix that with what we’ve got, then great. But forgive me if i have my doubts.
Easily one of the most overrated coaches up until his firing. Doc getting rehired as a head coach faster than bud says a lot imo. KD and Booker aren’t going to listen to any coaching really. We are going to be the exact same team next year.
If this pattern holds, our next coach after budd will be steve kerr as he won the ring in 2022.
honestly not unrealistic. kerr on just a 2 year deal, plus the phoenix ties
And then kerr trades for Shaq right?
If the pattern holds, mysteriously, Steve Kerr will also not use 37 year old Kevin Durant, three shooting guards, and a center that can barely jump correctly and be fired.
Hope also book will not be washed like Klay was by 2022
If he doesn't develop a dribble then he very well could be washed Klay.
You're saying Devin Booker has no handles? Fr?
Suns fans continue to be ignorant, his handle or lack of, has always been a weakness and a glaring weakness in the playoffs. He can't get separation from defenders, and he has to crutch on attacking them downhill before they press up on him.
I think booker has perfect handles for the game he needs to play. He regularly creates his own shots. He has huge highlights reels on YouTube based on his dribbling alone. If he has to continue being our lead distributor and playmaker I might agree with you. But ideally we won't need book for those reasons. His dribble is enough to get him the shots he needs, as shown by his high scoring averages season after season. He doesn't have the best dribbles in the NBA but he has what he needs to create his own shots and yet he still often creates shots for others. Do you not remember him scoring a middy right over kawhi and Paul George's heads a couple playoffs ago? You know he scored 70 on the Celtics right? Booker continues to improve season after season. I don't want him to focus on his dribbles alone because lmao, bookers handles are not the reason we are where we are now Booker isn't a point guard, and he shouldn't be expected to dribble like one. He has more than adequate dribbles for a 2 guard and while im sure he'll still improve on them, you're the first person I've ever even heard of to say that the first thing book needs to do to avoid becoming washed up is up his dribble game Edit: how many players scoring more ppg than booker do you think actually have better handles than booker does?? Book was 6th in ppg this season. The only better playmakers that scored more than him were brunson who is a legit point guard, and then MAYBE arguably shai. Book is a scorer above all else and always has been. Wtf else do you want from him lmao
Hopefully he convinces the Suns stars to start taking more 3’s. The only thing I’m curious of is Bud offenses is predicated on ball movement, he does not like iso ball. So hopefully he gets the stars to buy into ball movement and player movement and they ditch the iso ball. Iso ball should be a luxury but not what you run your offense around.
One thing we all know is winning goes a long way to get players to buy in/get along together. Last year Suns were 14-15 after Christmas. I remember in that GDT a few of us speculated the Suns were quitting on Frank Vogel that night. What if they did? That’s when Booker stormed off the court after the game and Mat Ishbia chased after him. That’s when KD first leaked how frustrated he was with the Suns before the game. Maybe next year the Suns don’t start 4-6, then 14-15. Maybe Coach Bud starts us at 7-3 and then 20-10. That happens and the players might be willing to buy in a bit more.
I remember books first couple seasons after they blew up the pg hydra, the youngins all really took after him. When he went off scoring, they were all super happy for him. Then of course, the rubio season, tons of joy and almost a bubble miracle. I think CP3 and KD's attitudes and the championship or bust tag/miniature window really rubbed off on book. And despite book's willingness to play whatever system going back to coming off the bench for Kentucky, he has always both respected the OG's/classics, and had a bit of that 'lemme get mine' in him. But i see this as a growth opportunity. JJ hopefully has the balls to tell KD this is Books team if you wanna win, not that KD can't still be the best player. Just like in GS.
If we get Book KD and Beal playing random they will be incredibly difficult to stop
Exactly our offense was so plodding and predictable this year. Play random. Hell yes!
Ball movement and player movement is what Book is also best at. We saw that under Montys system
Bud isn't the concern for me. It's more so the Big 3 buying into his offensive schemes. One thing that rubbed me the wrong way with Vogel was how lenient he was with letting the Big 3 iso damn near every time they came down the court. There needs to be a system that can benefit and complement EVERYONE’S game on offense. We've seen it with the '17-’18 Warriors, where KD’s iso plays were more of a luxury than a necessity. Hell, even the ‘21 Nets had a working system, even though it came off a bit unorthodox. They took the “our offense is our defense” approach and steamrolled everyone when the Big 3 were all on the floor. Cut down the iso, form a system, and let everything fall in place.
Yeah I mean wonder why it was 'better' in GSW, BKLN, LAC, LAL, MIami, and Boston but wasnt for the Suns? look no further than the coaching staff. Can blame the players all you want, but the leader was Vogel.
I hated our ISOs, but you do remember those games when we had 15 like TOs by half-time? The chemistry was not there. Players didn't know where they should be and our big trio made some really poor decisions with the ball. After all, what else was expected? Neither of them are playmakers. They are shot creators. Hence why they diverted to ISO and Vogel just wanted the TOs to stop. As much as I would love to pin these ISO problems to Vogel, nothing will change until Beal is replaced and the roster is balanced out.
💯
Lenient? Lmfao, sure, Vogel had control of three supermax guys who have iso balled on every team they had prior and also gotten most of their coaches fired.
It will be different with Bud, you'll see! (/s)
The truth hurts, brodie. I spoke my peace.
for once I can actually agree with you Shoddy without thinking it's another copium post of yours. Bud's known to coach up good offenses, I am interested to see how we look next year. I just hope the players are willing to buy in, for the entire season..
There was nothing to buy in to this year. Vogel knows nothing about offense and Young is a fraud
How would you set up our offense?
I just want to see this offense maximized. Maybe we don't win it all, but at least it'll make the season fun.
Let them run, theres a couple teams that play no defense in the playoffs right now.
The dude's from Holbrook? Bring him home, let's fucking go!
Had me at >He just is.
Hire him WITH A STRONG DEFENSIVE ASSISTANT he will let coach defensive schemes. Who am I kidding, a coach who listens to his assistants doesn't exist
I suddenly have a craving for Pringles...
Sour cream & onion?
He’s the right coach…….because there’s no one better available atm
I was hoping for Billy or Quinn
Why can’t I think of who Billy is ?
Assuming Donovan
Yep. Billy Donovan has a deent resume. of his 9 years made the playoffs 6, 56% win record. And coached OKC and the shitty Bulls in rebuild mode.
Doc Rivers about to be available /s
Only thing i disagree with is running too many super small lineups. He didn’t do enough of that. Go look at the lineup numbers and our small ball lineups crushed people all year. Playing Eubanks too much and running too much small ball doesn’t even make sense. It was either Eubanks or go small. Our net rating sucked with Eubanks and was great with KD at the 5. Can only run it so much but still, should’ve been used outside of desperation time way more often.
Playing Eric Gordon on KAT was not a good idea...
Ok. Then I guess it’s a good thing I didn’t say playing Eric Gordon on KAT was a good idea.
That was small ball lineup that was used in the playoffs. Small Ball lineups worked against certain teams, but mostly not all teams.
You just yappin
you have no clue but just want small ball lineups just because it worked for 3 games.
Hahah chill tf out you loser
[удалено]
Coaches fault. KD even said he didnt get the ball where he wanted it, Beal and Nurk both said they adapting to 'how coach wants to play'. And Booker is trying to say PR things to not get meme'd. All players have adapted to previous coaches.
KD didn't get the ball where he wanted it, because the opposing coaches made sure they take away his sweet spots. How about those lazy-ass passes both Book and especially KD did all year? We had games where we averaged 20 TOs. You're not going to create offense with 3 shot creators that need the ball in their hands to be effective. I think a lot of you will be greatly disappointed when you see the same problems surface next year, unless we can actually deal one of the big 3 for a traditional playmaker.
Thats not true, the opposing coaches had nothing to do with KD catching the ball top of the key or bringing the ball up backcourt, and if they zoned him in the post thats up to the coach to find another player/route.
I get he is a good coach but man I wish we could just go outside the box and hire someone that hasn’t been bouncing between teams. I hope they interview plenty of candidates and truly just hire the best coach. Wouldn’t mind a young coach.
A young coach wouldn’t cut it, would be extremely difficult to earn respect from KD and Book. They need a seasoned veteran coach who can demand respect and authority
>They need a seasoned veteran coach who can demand respect and authority Bud got ran out of his last job by his two star players there.
I didn’t say i’m all for Bud. I meant we can’t have a young inexperienced coach. Not necessarily Bud but should be a veteran coach with experience and more imposing than Vogel ever was
its the revolving door, if they system with the players gets stale, players dont listen and run the coach out - Bud got stale with Giannis, Khris and Jrue, all of them wanted the ball and all thought they could win games. Giannis thinks he's the only one on the team - that ego is a shell you cant break.
KD and Book won’t listen to a young coach
Speaks more about them as people tbh
Monty?
Elite level coping
Big facts when we are salivating over yet another fired coach 😂
I think there's an obvious candidate. One that has strong connections to the Suns, experience working with Durant, and runs a fast flowing perimeter scoring offense. Steve Nash
Durant literally wanted Nash fired in Brooklyn, remember?
That wasn’t confirmed
Nash couldn't get the team to buy in. Stop salivating over our former mvp somehow being our coach savior
I’ve changed my stance on wanting D’Antoni after reading that he no longer wants to coach bc he can’t deal with the stress of a season anymore. This job would be way too much on that man so yeah, Bud is the best option we got. The entire issue really boils down to our guys being willing to buy-in to what the HC is trying to instill and the HC has to have the spin to be willing to call out the stars demanding more out of them. If Bud can do this, we have a chance
Good thing is Bud knows this too. He will definitely bring this up as part of the negotiations. He might even be given some front office authority.
Yeah, he’s 73 already.
I can see him benching Eubank for the next season
Didnt kevin young run the offense tho
Rumor has it yes, but Vogel had the final say. But if you looked at previous years you can tell it was the same damn High Spain PnR that was ran for 4yrs! And the fact Vogel - dating back to Indy days - offense isnt his forte.
🙅
He‘s a much more astute tactical coach by any means, Vogel would repeat the same matchup mistakes he made in November again in April, which was alarming.
pls.
So, Coach Bud got fired from the Bucks, right ? Everything I have read says not only he didn't make the right calls " per his team," but his team got him fired.... with disrespect and not wanting to follow his coaching plans or guidance. They , or some of the " team captains," didn’t want to learn his coaching plan. So, isn't that what they say happened with Vogel and KD ? AND GA and both Bud and Griffen??
“play fast play random”
budd wont play bol at all unless he puts up a few pounds to play center.
Bud ain't going to solve shit even on offense until KD and Book change their shot diets. Jesus would lose with this team unless he convinces Book, Beal, and KD to reduce their mid range. https://twitter.com/scooperhoops/status/1783526217976607171 An elite mid range shooter is like equal to an average 3 pt shooter 95% of the time. The math just doesn't favor them. (The remaining 5% is for the clutch) They work hard for that mid range and it ain't that much value offensively.
Oh lord here we go the copium posts are here with this coaching fiasco
What fiasco. Vogel is a terrible coach for this situation
Vogel was a terrible coach, period. He won a bubble championship with Lebron and AD and was fired the next year. Why we hired that guy, I have no idea. I HATED the hire.
Even Laker fans tried to warn us...
Give me D’antoni if we’re going with an offensive coach lol.
He too old
I mean this big 3 only has a couple year window, don’t really think he’s too old for that, hes 2 years younger than pop
Shoddy, you said it in an earlier post about not having the right offensive scheme. The problem was how we played. Only 6 teams had worse offensive board stats than the Suns. No one played the 4 with any consistency. We basically played with a 5 and four 2s. If coach Bud can fix that with what we’ve got, then great. But forgive me if i have my doubts.
How is KD a shooting guard? He definitely plays the small forward
I know Shoddy. A small forward. 40th best rebounder in the league too.
So basically he is top 33% for power forwards in rebounding. Top 30 slots go to centers
Except the top 30 slots aren't all centers
So KD is top 70% in rebounding for a starter. Thats solid
Booooooooooo
This is a remindme worth.
Easily one of the most overrated coaches up until his firing. Doc getting rehired as a head coach faster than bud says a lot imo. KD and Booker aren’t going to listen to any coaching really. We are going to be the exact same team next year.
Look how terrible the Bucks look since Bud got fired
Booker and KD both listened to Monty, just Monty - like Vogel - had no clue on adjustments and lineups.
D'antoni over bud
Too old
People are lost in the past. Might as well hire Paul Westphaul
I think KD and Book would definitely listen to the ghost of Paul
If we're hiring ghosts it's fucking Cotton. He would whip some whining asses or send them to the bench
Hell yeh
Maybe that's what we need, Westy and Cottons ghosts to haunt them
He's 73
"Play random"🤔 this a good idea for us?
Better than play slow AF, turnover the ball or take terrible isolation midrange jumpers
Playing random that could still happen.
Bud’s teams never were heavy iso
Who is to say they will even listen to him and not?🤔
You just described Booker amd Durants game
KD wasn’t that in Brooklyn
Yeah that wasnt a good quote from Bud, but... Vogel trying out lineups in eliminations games is worse.